Latest / The Diary of a CFO / The Critical Role of Accounting in Business Success, with Edwine Alphonse

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The Critical Role of Accounting in Business Success, with Edwine Alphonse · The Diary of a CFO

0:03
Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast, the
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podcast where finance leaders share lessons,
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challenges, and wins that shape their careers
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as well as their organizations. Today, I'm so
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delighted to have with me Edwine Alphonse. Edwin
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is a financial executive with 20 years of experience
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in fintech, digital currencies, and technology.
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She specializes in startup accounting, IFRS,
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and US GAAP, leading financial strategy, M &A,
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and corporate integration. As currently the senior
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controller at Rem, she scaled financial operations
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during hyper growth. Previously, she established
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digital currency accounting centers as Circle,
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a CP in Canada and in the U .S. Edwine advises
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startups and serves on boards and champions financial
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education and entrepreneurship. Welcome, Edwin.
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Thank you, Asiya. Thanks for having me. I'm excited
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to be part of your podcast today. Thank you.
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Thank you. Why don't we just start with your
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journey I know you're a CPA in both countries,
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which people don't realize how much work it is.
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But what else, what else brought you to where
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you are now in your current role? So this is
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interesting. I studied my career in Canada, like
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you said. I'm from Haiti originally, but my parents
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moved to Canada when I was like close to like
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college age. And I went to the University of
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Ottawa. And for my first time on campus, I was
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extremely attracted into a career in accounting.
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At school, I joined the work -study program.
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And as a student in the work -study program,
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I was able to work in the accounting department
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at the university, which was a privilege because
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not everyone gets to see the behind of the scene
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of the university. So I was in the accounting
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department and I was able to work with auditors.
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At that time, Deloitte was the auditor of the
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university. And working with Deloitte and helping
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them get invoices in the attic of the university,
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I developed a passion for auditing and accounting.
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This is how my journey in accounting started.
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I joined EY right after university and worked
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for EY in Toronto, in Ottawa, and finally in
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Grand Cayman. After five years at EY, I moved
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to the US in Boston in 2011 and joined PwC. Three
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years at PwC, I joined my first startup and that
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was Circle. At that time, nobody knew about bitcoins
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or cryptocurrency. And it was a big risk. I remember
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people telling me, why are you doing this? Are
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you crazy? And that was OK, because I like challenges.
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And I was interested in learning more about cryptocurrencies.
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I was employee number 40 and the first accountant.
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So my first job was to get the first audit done.
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And it was challenging because nobody wanted
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to be the auditor of a cryptocurrency company
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at that time. Oh, wow. I didn't even think about
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that. How did you navigate just that part? Well,
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interestingly, we found like a small firm in
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California that was brave enough to take us as
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a client. And for me, it was a journey because,
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you know, when you're an auditor, you don't really
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know like accounting and how to set up accounting
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systems and processes. in a real company. As
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an auditor, all you do is review the work of
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other people. So I was able to learn and navigate
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the process of setting up accounting in a really,
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really risky company. So I did it, worked at
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Circle for five years, built a team. And when
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I say team, like we had people in the US, we
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had people in UK, in Ireland, in Hong Kong. So
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I was able to work with IFRS standards as well.
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Because Serco at that time was an Irish entity,
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like the parent was an Irish entity. And then
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after Serco, I joined two other startups in a
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similar role, where I was able to help build
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a team, build processes. And then finally, four
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years ago, I joined Rep. And Rep, the first accountant,
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built the team, built the processes. That's impressive
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because I saw ramp we saw you guys in the Super
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Bowl So if you were there four years ago, like
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how big was the team? How big is the team now
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in the organizations? Like what are some of the
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things that helped you? scale with ramp So I
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think I was privileged enough to work in a company
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that is focused on helping accountant with finance
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automation So this is a great environment for
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me because I'm working a company whose mission
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is to help accountants like me. So I use Ramp
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to do work. I use Ramp to process invoices. I
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use Ramp for bill pay. So from the get -go, it
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was the perfect environment to build a team.
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So when I joined in 2021, we had a team of 71
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people. That was the head count in the company.
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Right now, we have about 1 ,300 employees. And
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being the first in accounting was great because
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I was able to set up the processes, work on the
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controls, and also establish the primary foundation
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of accounting and finance. So right now, my accounting
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team is, we have a team of eight, but we get
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a lot done. With 1 ,300 employees, wow, wow.
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And what would you say are some of the things
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that helped you scale, right? Because if you
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were the first accountant, there is no roadmap.
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You're probably taking something maybe that was
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handled by a bookkeeper before, and you're trying
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to bring it in -house, and building procedures,
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you're hiring people, you're helping them grow.
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Like, can you speak more about, like, that whole
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experience? It is something to think about, because
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you need to have a word map. And for me, my word
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map, and I would say my north star, is daily
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clothes. I dream about just, like, pressing a
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button and closing the book. I dream about the
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tomations. So that's my north star. And accounting
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as a function, we have three goals as accountants.
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The first one is to keep the lights on. People
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don't think about accounting like that, but all
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the functions that we do, like AP, AR, payroll,
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compliance, auditing, like our first mission
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is to keep the lights on. And we do that by safeguarding
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the assets of the company. By asset, I mean like
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people, number one asset. If they don't get paid,
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they don't show up to work. They're not satisfied.
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So that's to payroll, vendors, customers. Those
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are relationships that are important for the
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company. If the vendors don't get paid, they
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don't provide services. They don't provide like
6:48
hardware. There's no leases. There's no place
6:51
for employees to congregate and work. So that's
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to AP. So you need to have like strong AP, strong
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payroll. And the last one is compliance. As an
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institution, as a corporation, the company and
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all the other entities under the company, the
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subsidiaries, they have tax compliance that need
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to be met. Because the IRS needs its money. The
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state needs its money. If you have like lenders,
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they want to make sure that they're not lending
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their money to some crazy management thing. So
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they want financial statement. And investors,
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who give money to the company, they want to make
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sure that their money is properly used. As an
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accounting leader, my role is to make sure that
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I take care of all of the stakeholders' needs.
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And mostly, the executives need information.
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So with accounting, you provide information.
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So let me say it again. First one, keep the lights
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on. Otherwise, the company doesn't survive. Second,
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safeguard the assets. People, processes, tools,
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money, the money you receive for your fundraising.
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And third, give information. Always go back to
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these three missions or goals. And I build my
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team to always remember that they are important
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in the organization. And this brings me to like,
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how do you build a team? And these people are
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important. So being the first one, and I've been
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the first one in many situations that circle
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at Trump, like I always make sure first I understand
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what's going on. I know how the processes work.
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I've done the work. Like I've done payroll, I've
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done AP, I've done bank reconciliation, even
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do the lowest renewal task. So when I have a
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team member joining, I can coach them. I know
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what they're doing. So that was my first responsibility,
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learn. so I can teach to others. The type of
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people that I usually like to hire are people
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that have full ownership of the work that they
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do. Like each one of my team member is a key
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member of the organization. Even if you're like
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an AP specialist, you pay bills. This is a key
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wall, because if the bills are not paid, the
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vendors are not happy. So I look for people that
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take pride in their work and that have a sense
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of ownership and accountability. Second, I want
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someone that can work independently. I work remotely,
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and my team is pretty much remote. So I always
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tell them, I don't have time to babysit anyone.
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No micromanagement. No micromanagement. So I
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need to trust you. And trust means being transparent.
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It also means that knowing that even though you
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might be in California, I'm in Boston, we have
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a different time zone, you get the work done.
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I don't care. where my team member live. I don't
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care when the work gets done. It just need to
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get done by a certain timeline. And we talk about
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it. And I think one of the challenges of working
10:04
remotely is you don't know what's going on in
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people's life. You don't know what their energy
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is. So I take it upon myself to be as close to
10:15
them as possible. And I take the lead to share
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as much as I can about my personal life, what
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I'm going through. Because you need to establish
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this bond with your remote team. You need to
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build that trust. And third is like coaching
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and mentoring. Like you might give people responsibility.
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You might put them in the ownership position
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and accountability position. You might not manage
10:39
them, but you need to lead them as well. And
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when we go to the hiring process, like we have
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like, I have a really extremely fully strong
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hiring process. How I do it is I like to ask
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questions, like personal questions. I'll ask,
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I want to know also for where my employees are.
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But what's important is knowing how you can learn
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from mistakes of the past. So one of my question
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is like, is there anything you would do differently
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in your career or in your personal life? And
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you'll be surprised the people that tell me nothing.
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Usually, they don't get the job usually, because
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I always feel like there's always a lesson to
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learn. So they haven't learned that lesson in
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20 years or 30 years. Part of the hiring, they
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do a technical case as well. And usually, in
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the case, there's always some kind of trick.
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Now I want to see the test afterwards. Email
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me. Usually, because I would put an error in
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the question. Just to see who's going to find
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my error. Like if you applied for an AP position,
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there will be like a situation where the company
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is running out of money. And as an AP person,
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you need to be like, oh my God, like I don't
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have money to pay my bills. What's going on?
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So that kind of like test your cash management
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skills. Like if you're working as an accounting
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manager, usually I put a little trick like there's
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an error in one of the entry and the candidate
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that usually find my errors. they usually score
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high. And part of the process as well, we do
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have a panel interview because most of our employees,
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they work with different team members, different
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departments. So they need to be able to work
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with cross partnership teams. They need to be
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able to communicate well. They need to be able
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to be assertive. So through interaction with
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the panel, we can assess the skills as well.
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Wow, I love your hiring process because you really
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just outline the true foundation of a high -performing
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accounting team, right? Because you want somebody
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who not just understand and can problem solve
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on their own, but they also have to be great
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business partner because at the end of the day,
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like you said earlier, as an accountant, there
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is so much that you carry. And we often don't
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understand the importance of accounting in the
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office of the CFO. It's so important. You need
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good data, good accounting to do good FP &A and
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everything else. Can you speak a bit more to
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this? Well, I think accounting is the foundation
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of everything. You need to have good numbers
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in order to do good projection, in order to start
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a good strategy like an operating model. So if
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you don't have good accounting, you cannot have
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any. And usually accountants are behind the scenes
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and they think about like the past, like when
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you look at the financial statement. That financial
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statement is a presentation of the past. Like
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right now, for example, we're working on 2024
13:44
audits. My auditors, all they care about is 12
13:47
-21 -24. Yes, same boat. Like, why do you have
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a 12 -21 -24? What did you have in the bank?
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What did you have as liabilities? What did you
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have as equity? And they ask a lot of questions,
14:02
requests, reconciliation, and all of this. That's
14:04
all they care about, like, as auditors. And as
14:07
accountants, like, we're going to close in the
14:10
book for the month of February. But February's
14:13
already gone. But you need that information.
14:17
Like, you just said it. We run that campaign
14:19
for the Super Bowl second. We spent a lot of
14:21
money. So I need to report, how much money did
14:24
we spend? And what was the impact of that expenditure
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on our sales numbers, on our go -to -market strategy?
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Because that was a big branding investment. What
14:35
is the result of that? Guess who has the numbers?
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My team has the numbers, accounting has the numbers.
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And with that number, this is what the go -to
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-market team, the revenue operations team, this
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is what they're going to use to make prediction
14:49
about the future. This is what the executive
14:52
are going to use to make sure that their investment
14:54
in that marketing campaign bring friction. Like
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they want to make sure that whatever they spend,
15:01
they're going to get it in 10 times, 20 times
15:04
of time. and why are they using for that is accounting.
15:08
First of all, the accounting team had to make
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the payment. Must have been a big check. I remember
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my team, that was the day of CKO. We had a big
15:20
company -wide event, and nobody had their computer.
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I was like, okay, I'm going to go with my laptop,
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and we had to process the payment really quickly.
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So we were keen in processing the payment to
15:30
AP, which is an accounting functions. And then,
15:34
Like reporting it, we had to report it, categorize
15:37
it in the right GL, talk to the different marketing
15:41
teams, sales people, and everything, and report
15:43
on it. So we'd be like, okay, this is how much
15:45
we've spent. And now to the revenue numbers that
15:48
are going to come, we'll be like, oh, we spent
15:50
that much? This is how much we got. So that's
15:52
accounting here. So you need that foundation.
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If you don't have that foundation, nothing is
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solid. Like finance cannot stay, like the operating
16:01
model, what numbers are used. The go -to -market
16:04
strategy is what numbers are used. So I think
16:06
accounting team, like a good accounting team,
16:09
is building financial history. Like we are historian.
16:13
We're like financial storyteller. And if nobody's
16:16
hearing that story, if nobody's paying attention
16:19
to the fact, you're not learning for the future,
16:22
and you're not going well for the future. So
16:24
that's why I always feel like accounting is extremely
16:27
important to an organization. And then when you
16:30
look like more, like I work for startups. But
16:33
all of the startups, they do have an exit plan
16:36
at some point. Either they get brought up, either
16:39
they go to an IPO. But at that point, what do
16:42
investors look at? They look at financial statement.
16:46
Because this financial statement tells them a
16:48
story about the company, like a number story.
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I like to call it number story. But that number
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story is why people are investing. It's why people
16:57
are not investing or making decisions. And that's
17:01
why accounting is extremely important. Absolutely.
17:05
And I love how you said it because we often don't
17:10
realize how important it is. And I think part
17:12
of it is because we've seen accounting team and
17:16
accounting system not set up right from the start.
17:19
So the accounting team is often trying to catch
17:22
up. Maybe the chart of account was not designed
17:25
the right way to start with. And now it's a problem
17:28
with the rest of the management team. Maybe the
17:30
accounting system was not set up the right way,
17:32
and then it's a problem with the right team.
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So since you had that experience building, being
17:37
the one that built from scratch, how would you
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say are some of the things people should consider
17:42
when they... build that initial chart of account,
17:45
when they build that initial process so that
17:48
you can build to scale and not just have something
17:52
that works maybe for the first one, two years
17:54
of a company, but can work, like you said, for
17:56
all these years to now, you're on the Superbowl,
17:59
if I can say at Ramp, for example. So that's
18:02
extremely important. And like you said, the chart
18:05
of account is the map. If you don't have a good
18:09
chart of accounts, you pretty much could. And
18:11
usually when I join a company, the first thing
18:13
I do is I do a big cleanup of the shut off account.
18:16
And my cleanups start from day zero, not day
18:19
one, because day one is usually like when the
18:22
company receive money, when the company is formed.
18:24
But day zero is like, what is the intention of
18:27
that company? Why are they like starting this
18:29
company? And you need to build that shut off
18:32
account based on the goal and intention of the
18:35
company. And when you study in a short of account,
18:38
like usually, like when I come, people are usually
18:40
in Quickbook. They don't even have account numbers.
18:43
And I'm like, Oh my God, I cannot live without
18:46
account numbers. There's no 1000. So the first
18:50
thing to do is to like, go back, look at the
18:53
short of accounts, think about what is the business
18:56
of the company? What do they want to do in the
18:59
long run in three, four, five years and map the
19:03
business across the short of accounts. I'd say
19:06
like you're going to have different type of revenues.
19:10
Usually revenues start with four, like 4 ,000
19:13
or something like that, or 40 ,000. So how many
19:16
revenue line are you going to have? How many
19:18
revenue categories are you going to have? So
19:21
you start there. You start thinking about cugs.
19:24
What is cugs? Like gap, US gap is extremely,
19:28
give you a lot of latitude for cugs. As soon
19:30
as like you, like if you remain consistent. You
19:32
can put a lot in COGS or you can put less depending
19:35
on the goals of the company. So you need to design,
19:39
what am I going to have in COGS? And what is
19:42
that map showing to my investors? Because if
19:46
you have an inflated COGS, that's when your gross
19:48
margin, your CP is not going to look good. So
19:51
you need to understand what are your investors,
19:53
what are your executives looking for? So that's
19:56
why the short of account is extremely important
19:58
and you need to design it in partnership. with
20:01
your executive, thinking about what the investors
20:04
are going to want long -term. So after designing
20:07
that P &L, like I usually do like, okay, revenue,
20:10
what type of revenue, what's different revenue
20:13
line, COGS, what do you have there, like OPEX,
20:17
like are you going, if you're a SaaS company,
20:19
you have three big departments, R &D, G &A, sales
20:23
and marketing, and then you might have other
20:25
like other revenues that build the line. So I
20:28
take a detailed approach on the P &L because
20:30
the P &L tells the story of what's going on during
20:33
a period in the company. And after you go back
20:36
to the balance sheet, then you're like, okay,
20:38
what type of asset do I have? What type of liability
20:40
do I have? And people always forget that, but
20:43
equity is the most important. It's funny because
20:47
I remember when I was at the big four, nobody
20:50
ever taught me to audit or like account for equity.
20:55
So I have to learn the hard way and knowing like
20:59
the different type of equity because this is
21:02
what's funny in the company and this is where
21:03
the owners accumulate wealth in the company or
21:07
they accumulate losses as well. So you need to
21:10
understand equity accounting. That's first. And
21:13
then second, as you are building the accounting
21:18
for a company, once you have that sort of account,
21:21
what kind of tools do you have? Because you don't
21:24
want your team to spend time like doing like
21:26
silly work. I call that silly work. If a software
21:29
can do the work, your team shouldn't do it. So
21:32
I lobby a lot and I invest a lot in the right
21:36
software so my team doesn't have to do silly
21:38
work. Like at Ramp, for example, we use Ramp
21:41
at Ramp for AP, for expense reporting. I don't
21:45
have to go chase people for the expense reports.
21:47
And I can tell you, I've done that for like five,
21:50
six years. had various company before that. RIMP
21:54
is pretty cool. That's what we use at ACE. We
21:57
use RIMP. So it does, it does remind you of what's
22:01
going on and then he locks you out if you didn't
22:04
submit your receipt. So I, my AP associate love
22:07
it. They're like, yes, for RIMP. Same thing for
22:12
me too. Like I don't have to be chasing people.
22:14
I can just create quick controls from the get
22:16
go. So using the right tools is important. when
22:20
I started wearing Quickbook. I was like, okay,
22:23
maybe Quickbook is not the right way to scale.
22:25
So we went for a bigger software. Same thing
22:29
too, we adopted some closed software. We were
22:32
going to do subscription. Like we implemented,
22:35
like I implemented like a sales tax software.
22:38
The sales tax, oh my God, government, if they
22:40
want to come after you for sales tax, they will
22:42
come after you. So you need to make sure you're
22:45
compliant from the get go. Like for example,
22:47
we just implemented like a financial statement
22:50
preparation software. Because I don't want my
22:53
team to be doing silly work. And that work can
22:55
be done by software or by AI. So right now, my
23:00
team, like, we're thinking about how we can implement
23:03
AI agent into a monthly closed process or into
23:06
a regular process as well. Because if the tools
23:09
exist, why are people spending time doing it?
23:12
I have a really, really lean team for a big organization
23:15
that's going really fast. And most of the time
23:18
we are, like I'll say a little bit overwhelmed
23:21
because there's a lot of work. Especially in
23:23
our sense, we're like in business season with
23:24
the audits going on. Like we need to prioritize
23:27
what type of work that we're doing. That's why
23:30
it's important to have the right tools. And lastly,
23:33
like the right processes. Oh, wow. That's the
23:36
cherry on the cake. Because sometimes, like you
23:38
said, you have the right tools. You did all your
23:41
work as a leader. You lobbied. You got the approval.
23:44
You got the software. And then you don't implement
23:47
right. Exactly. And I would say this is the most
23:51
challenging thing. Because you might have the
23:54
whole nice process on paper with the right controls,
23:57
with the right owners, and everything. And it's
24:00
still not working. Yes. So having the right processes
24:05
is extremely important. And I'm not going to
24:07
say I have all the right processes. We're still
24:10
in building mode. We're still in improvement
24:12
mode. But your key processes need to be great.
24:17
And what are the key processes? Like AP, which
24:21
is like procure to pay process. AR, your revenue
24:24
process, which is like order to cash. Paywall,
24:27
like those are the key processes. They need to
24:30
work really well. And after, you can work on
24:32
the other one, like tax, like capitalization,
24:36
and all of this. In addition to that, your closed
24:38
process. That's a process that's always a working
24:41
process, because you're always improving it.
24:44
But you need to remember to go back to the board
24:47
and work on your key process. And people don't
24:49
think about that as well. Like, these processes,
24:51
they don't change. You have them across all organizations.
24:54
But in the canvas of that, there is the organizational
24:58
process of doing, like, improving the processes,
25:03
automating them, creating the infrastructure.
25:07
I would call that the backbone of accounting.
25:10
And that's why accountants, like strategic accounting
25:12
is extremely important. Like I know accounting
25:15
can be extremely like transactional, but you
25:18
need to also have a strategic accounting mindset,
25:22
which allows you to scale. And by that, I'm like,
25:25
okay, new product, what is our process for new
25:29
product? So that's another process that you have
25:32
to think about. Building the tools, what is the
25:36
process to build the tool? Like change management,
25:38
what is the process for that? I would like a
25:42
world where, as accountants, we have time to
25:43
do all of this. Yes. But most of the time, we
25:48
just have to prioritize and do what's mostly
25:51
important, like what's more important. Of course.
25:54
But then going back to getting away from silly
25:58
work. So with a lean team, like you said, working
26:01
at a startup, you probably have a lean team,
26:04
you building as you go, you learning as you go,
26:05
that's a lot of stretching too. But how do you
26:08
advocate for the technology to go with it? Because
26:11
I feel like sometimes we don't always have the
26:14
right either negotiation skills or the foresight
26:18
to say, okay, because I know this is where we're
26:20
going, these are the investment I need to make
26:22
now with my team. How do you go about making
26:26
sure that you stay ahead, that the management
26:28
team knows that they need to make those investment
26:30
in the accounting and finance team? This is such
26:33
a good question because as an accountant, we
26:35
don't think outside the box. We usually like
26:38
deliver the cards that we're given and we usually
26:41
make the best of it. But is the best the best?
26:45
That's the question I keep asking myself. Like
26:47
I always ask myself, like, is the best the best?
26:49
So to advocate, you need to know that knowledge.
26:53
And right now we are in a really good period
26:56
where there's a lot of tools, there's a lot of
26:59
software, there's a lot of company building for
27:02
accountants or for office of the CF, what they
27:05
call them, like office of the CF rules. So as
27:07
an accounting leader, it is your responsibility
27:11
to know about these new tools that are being
27:14
developed for accountants. Because if you don't
27:17
know about them, you cannot introduce them to
27:19
your team, you cannot advocate for them. So for
27:21
me, I spend a lot of time with founders. When
27:25
I say I spend time with them, I'm always curious.
27:27
If I see something new, I will connect with the
27:30
founder and request a demo. Because even if I
27:33
don't use the tool, or even if I have no intention
27:36
of ever using it, this is a tool I can learn
27:39
from. I can recommend it to my friends that might
27:41
use it. Or I can give some idea to my team about
27:45
how to do better work with the mindset of the
27:48
tool. And if I don't use it now, maybe I'll use
27:51
it in two, three years. You never know. So I
27:53
spend a lot of time staying up to date with new
27:58
technology, new tools, startup that are being
28:01
developed. Because I feel like if you don't do
28:04
that, you're missing out. So that's one, just
28:06
being knowledgeable. And two, how do you convince
28:10
your leadership? Once you find the right tool,
28:13
how do you convince your leadership? Because
28:15
think about it, we're just a cost center. People
28:17
see us like... costing most of the time. We're
28:19
not like a market team. So why would someone
28:22
want to invest in accounting? But they need to
28:25
do it because we're the foundation. So as an
28:28
accounting leader, you need to be the one showing
28:30
the return on investment of the tools you're
28:33
going to bring. Number one, return of investment
28:36
is time saved. Time saved that your team doesn't
28:40
have to do like silly work. Every tool that you're
28:43
assessing, you need to be like, okay, how much
28:45
time is this saving? for my accounting manager.
28:49
How much time is the saving for more reconciliation
28:51
process? And once you know that, oh, all right,
28:55
you can advocate for it. And the time saving
28:58
can be translated in dollar value as well, because
29:01
you know how much your team costs you. And as
29:03
you're thinking about it, you're not thinking
29:06
about now, you're thinking about the future.
29:08
So that analysis is like an allocation, like
29:12
a resource allocation analysis that you have
29:14
to do. Because as you're doing that, you usually
29:17
have three or four choices. Either you outsource
29:20
someone else to do work, like an advisor or contractor.
29:23
Either you buy a tool or either your team's office
29:26
do it. Or you hire another person. Yeah, hire
29:30
another person. Or you can even build it internally
29:33
if you have the tools. So that's like four choices
29:36
that you have with the resources that you have,
29:39
which is money. Hopefully you have a budget for
29:41
it. you need to make a decision that's going
29:44
to affect your present and the future and Again,
29:47
that decision is based on the return on investment
29:50
and I'm caveatting that because some people they
29:52
might have different mindset Some people are
29:54
like, okay, I want it now because I have this
29:57
problem now that I want to solve and if that's
30:00
the case, maybe you just buy something Well,
30:03
if you buy it, how long is it going to take you
30:05
to implement it? How long is it going to take
30:07
you for your team to really know how to use it?
30:10
But if you hire someone to do it So are you done?
30:13
Quick. Done. You move on. It depends on the situation.
30:17
It depends on the prioritization. But again,
30:20
it's all about allocation of resources in return
30:23
of investment. So I use this usually to advocate
30:28
for the tools that we want. And usually, I do
30:31
a really nice presentation with different key
30:35
things. And I share that with my executive team,
30:38
management team. And sometimes, they're like,
30:40
OK. you can get it. It's already in your budget.
30:43
Go for it. And sometimes they tell me, you know,
30:45
they're like, we'll build this for you. Do you
30:48
need this now? I have to say that I'm extremely,
30:52
I like to ask for new things. So they're used
30:55
to you. I don't get everything. But if I make
31:00
a really strong case, I usually get it. That
31:03
is awesome. And I think You having been in the
31:07
tech, fintech industries, you are very strategic
31:10
as an accountant. I feel like certain industries
31:14
make you grow and stretch in different ways that
31:17
may be traditional. if I can say industry don't,
31:20
because you were in digital currency and then
31:23
SaaS and all these good stuff. What are some
31:25
of the things, would you say, might surprise
31:27
people when they transition from, let's say,
31:30
manufacturing to a technology company? Like,
31:33
what would take you by surprise? I think for
31:36
me, the culture is extremely different. OK. And
31:39
it's interesting because as an auditor, I work
31:42
with different type of companies, like I had
31:43
different type of clients. One day I would be
31:46
like working for Ghost ReStore and that was a
31:49
mom and pop shop. And then the next week I'll
31:51
be working in a technology company. And then
31:54
the week after I'll be working at like pharmaceutical
31:56
company, like focus on cancer research. So different
32:00
culture, different mindset, and you need to be
32:03
able to adapt to that because each one of these
32:06
cultures focus on something different. They have
32:09
different goals, but at the basis of that, they're
32:12
still people. And you'll be surprised, like we
32:14
have the same commonalities. We have the same
32:18
leaders. So as an auditor, I was able to adapt
32:21
myself to this different environment, different
32:24
cultures, different personalities, like the controllers
32:28
that never came to work, that never wanted to
32:31
give you any audit evidence, that were leaning
32:34
inwards. And also the CFO that were like, too
32:36
nice. You're like, oh my God, why is this person
32:38
so nice? Are they hiding something? So as an
32:44
auditor, I was able to do that. And that's why
32:47
I feel like I'm always attracted to new environment.
32:52
Like I had like challenges or like new things.
32:55
And maybe it's because like I'm an immigrant,
32:57
like I've lived in different countries and I
32:59
always feel like I'm resilient enough. I'm adaptable
33:02
enough to deal with that. But again, it's what
33:07
do you want? Like I like changes. I like new
33:09
things. I like exciting things. So when I left
33:12
PwC as an auditor, I was an experienced audit
33:15
manager. I could have stayed for one time. I
33:18
was easy, traveling all over the US, which was
33:22
not ideal for a young mother, but it was good.
33:26
So when I saw that cryptocurrency job at Circle,
33:28
that accounting manager job, I was like, oh my
33:31
god, this is a chance to learn something new.
33:33
I always want to learn something new. I have
33:35
this curiosity, which I think every accountant
33:38
is like, we have that. We're curious. We want
33:41
to know what things are happening. We want to
33:43
know like what is in paywall, like who's making
33:45
what. We want to know like why are we paying
33:51
that much for this. So that curiosity is something
33:54
that always brings me to different companies,
33:57
to different industries. And I look for that.
34:01
So now I'm a little bit like more experienced
34:03
and I'm thinking about, okay, what are my career
34:06
goals? And what is my career map? And I am more
34:10
strategic in the type of company that I'm working
34:12
for, but I still want like exciting company.
34:15
I went from SoCo. SoCo was like the currency.
34:17
Nobody knew what Bitcoin was. And it was scary
34:21
at time. Like I remember we were like, oh my
34:23
God, like whenever we would hear like a police
34:25
siren, like, oh my God, they're coming for us.
34:29
But I learned a lot. I learned a lot. I learned
34:31
about compliance. I learned about cryptocurrency.
34:34
I learned about how to create new accounting
34:37
and auditing standards for new class of assets.
34:41
I learned about creating entities in different
34:44
countries and the compliance side of it. So that
34:47
was great. So I was always attracted to new exciting
34:51
things. So when I started the job at Circle,
34:53
it was interesting because it was mostly a male
34:56
-dominated environment with people that were
34:59
extremely interested in crypto. which I never
35:04
knew about crypto, but I was able to learn, I
35:07
was able to trade, and I learned a lot, and that
35:10
was exciting. Then after SoCo, I was like, okay,
35:12
what's new? And I went to an AI manufacturing
35:14
company. That was extremely challenging because
35:17
inventory, like big inventory, I don't know for
35:21
you, like I was not a big fan of inventory accounting.
35:26
Nobody is. But it was fun. but again it was mostly
35:31
like engineers and all of them were like electrical
35:34
engineer mechanical engineers and working with
35:36
them and understanding their work was great but
35:40
I realized like it was extremely isolating so
35:43
I didn't stay for a long time and after I was
35:46
like okay what's popping what's exciting and
35:49
at that time I was social media and I found this
35:52
company that was doing like data analytics for
35:55
social media that company was tracker and I went
35:59
there and what they did was like pretty much
36:02
like tracking influencers across all different
36:07
social media. So brands like cosmetic brands,
36:11
beauty brands, they can message and target customers.
36:15
That was fun because I could spend my whole time
36:17
on Instagram doing work. Yes. I learned a lot
36:24
about that. And then Rem Kim. And I was interested
36:28
because at that time, like expense reporting
36:30
was extremely annoying for me. What companies
36:33
are helping accountants? And I found that. So
36:37
for me, like you need to have that natural curiosity
36:39
to explore new things and do new things as an
36:43
accountant. Like if you want to work for startup,
36:47
that curiosity should exist. Like you should
36:50
be curious, should be resilient. You should be
36:52
adaptable. And I feel like maybe like immigrant
36:56
background. Yeah, because you're working outside
36:59
of your comfort zone. My first language is French,
37:02
so you, every time you speak, you are automatically
37:05
outside of your comfort zone. So then it's easier
37:08
to be outside of your comfort zone, because like,
37:10
yeah, that's my daily life. Exactly. I'm always
37:13
outside of my comfort zone. Like I'm in a country
37:15
that's not mine. Well, it's mine now. I have
37:18
kids. I have like a spouse, like property. It's
37:21
mine now. I work in a language that has become
37:25
mine. I work in industry that I have to learn.
37:28
I work with people that I need to understand.
37:31
And most of them, I don't see them most of the
37:34
time. Like we meet like four or five times per
37:36
year. As an accountant, if you want to be a leader
37:40
in a startup, those are all the skills you have
37:42
to develop. Nice, nice. And what would you say
37:46
would be some good advice for the upcoming generation
37:50
of accounting and finance leaders? Because they're
37:52
coming up and there are so many industries available,
37:55
now many more standards, but also more AI and
38:00
how it's changing the work that we do. Because
38:03
we use ramp, like I said, and I can tell there's
38:05
a lot of AI in the background because that software
38:07
is smart. But what does it mean for the next
38:10
generation of leaders? What do you think? What
38:12
are some steps they could do to better prepare
38:14
themselves for what's coming up in the future
38:16
of finance and accounting? They need to invest
38:17
in AI. AI is not going away. True. And then we
38:21
think that AI is going to take our accounting
38:22
job. That's not true. AI is just going to make
38:25
our work different. It's going to help it, but
38:28
it's going to make it more challenging for us
38:30
to step up and grace it. And I can say like I
38:35
was at Bentley College a couple of weeks ago
38:38
for a case competition. and I talk to the students,
38:41
like second, third, fourth year students in accounting,
38:44
and they're learning like SQL. They're learning
38:47
PowerDB. They're already using AI, so they understand
38:50
that, and it's teaching them that. AI is here
38:55
to do the silly work. You can create AI agent
38:58
to do silly work. Like same thing, you can have
39:02
a calculator, you can have formulas in Microsoft
39:06
Excel. So when these tools were introduced, I'm
39:09
sure people were concerned, oh my God, it's going
39:11
to take my work, but they just improved the work.
39:15
And the same thing for AI, AI is going to improve
39:17
the work. So now as the new generation of accountants,
39:22
you need to know, what am I going to do? Because
39:25
let's say if I wanted to be a bookkeeper, guess
39:27
what? We probably not going to need bookkeeper
39:29
anymore. That's very true. If you were going
39:34
to be like an AP clerk. You are like, oh, I'm
39:36
going to be the best AP clerk ever. Well, your
39:39
job is not going to be entering invoices anymore,
39:42
categorizing them. There are tools that can do
39:44
that. Web can do that for you. So as an AP clerk,
39:48
your job is to give insight now. Your job is
39:51
to make sure that the controls, the approval
39:53
flow works and the settings work. Your job is
39:56
to navigate relationship with partners across
40:00
different departments and tell them, wow, your
40:02
budget is not working. So, I feel like AI is
40:06
going to elevate our work and make us like more
40:10
useful rather than just doing silly work, rather
40:14
than just doing like a task -oriented, we want
40:17
to be more strategic. And that's what we want.
40:21
Like learn how to ask the question, like what,
40:23
why, so what. Learn how to dig deeper and focus
40:29
and tell the story that the numbers are telling
40:32
you. Because the AI will tell you the numbers.
40:34
What is that story beyond that number? And for
40:37
me, even for me, it's hard because I remember
40:39
when I was studying with accounting, like my
40:41
first audit job, I came to a room, that was the
40:44
audit room, that was a conference room, close
40:46
to the kitchen, of course. Yes, the one nobody
40:49
wants to be in. It was really hot. And then they
40:54
just gave us all these big binders. And my first
40:57
job was like to go to the binders and pick sample
41:00
and post it everywhere. Guess what? I don't even
41:04
have paper at REF anymore. There's no binders,
41:08
there's no papers. When the auditors come, we
41:10
just send them a file electronically. So that's
41:13
already a big challenge, right? For AI, at some
41:18
point, I won't even have to do a little lookup,
41:21
Excel, formatting. AI will do it. AI will tell
41:24
the story. So I'll be the one presenting that
41:27
story, doing the research, and giving the insight.
41:31
becoming a better business partner. Exactly.
41:34
So that technology is helping us be the best
41:37
accountants, be the best collaborators, and help
41:40
in the business skill. And again, I want to go
41:43
back to the three goals of accounting. Keep the
41:47
lights on. This can be automated for the assets.
41:52
Part of it can be automated, but as an accounting
41:56
leader, as an accounting manager, you have your
41:58
role to play because you will know what the important
42:01
assets are. And third is give information. So
42:05
AI is going to help you compile information,
42:07
organize it, but you will still have to tell
42:10
that story. You still have to format it. You
42:12
still have to like dig deeper and tell the stories
42:16
that are important to people. Awesome. Well,
42:20
thank you so, so much, Edwin. This was so insightful.
42:24
Thank you so much because, again, you brought
42:27
back the idea of accounting being such a backbone
42:30
of any finance of any really business organization.
42:34
Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank
42:36
you for having me. It was so fun. Thank you.
42:39
And that's it for today's episode of The Diary
42:42
of a CFO. Thank you so much for tuning in. If
42:45
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