Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Hinterkaifeck Murders

Transcript

Hinterkaifeck Murders · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Following several strange events, a man found some odd footprints
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: in the snow leading to his farmhouse out in the countryside.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: But they only led to his farmhouse and not away
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: from it. This is the most notorious unsolved true crime
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: case in German history. This is the case of hinter Kaifak. Warning.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: The following podcast contains graphic content and material intended for
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. Well. Hello there, my
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: name's Ben.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast. Welcome back. We got a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: cool case for you guys today.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Sure sounds like it.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is when we've actually had requested several
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: times over the course of the existence of our podcast.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I know very little details about this, so I'm going
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: to be learning about it along with everyone else.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: It's how can I sum this up into like a
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: couple words? It is weird, Let's put it that way.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Weird is how I would describe this case.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: How is it going to leave us feeling weird? Weird?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: That's it, just weird.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: It'll leave you wanting to learn more?
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: The problem is there isn't a whole lot to learn
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: You love those cases, don't I do?
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I really do. Yeah, But before we get into too
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: much about this case, we got to thank our patrons.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: We do so signing up this month over on Patreon.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: We had Stephanie Alf, we had Mary I'm gonna say
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: this wrong. I'm going do my best. Prove provenzano I
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: butchered it, provenzano I think that's what I'm gonna go with. Aaron.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I love how it's like just so easy. Didn't you
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: didn'ton was probably like, yeah, you're gonna fuck up my name.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep a sip before you. Alyssa Bludorn and.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Christy another just simple love it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Two people making it easy on us this week.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. Thank you to all of you though.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: That's so good, Thank you so much. We've got some
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: stuff cooking up in the works, like a little giveaway
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: coming down. They're going to see some behind the scenes
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: stuff regarding that. So yeah, yeah.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that giveaway is going to be so excited, like exciting.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I cannot freaking wait. We got to get our ship
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: together on it.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: The only thing is we are going to be requesting
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: patients because we have a couple of things coming in
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the mail that we're waiting on before like it all happens,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and of course getting all this stuff together, our shit together,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to make sure that we have it all elaborated correctly.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I was just on the island.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you were relaxing.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel very very chill.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: And when you say the island vibe, oh yeah, say
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: the island, Vancouver Island. There you go, I know, And
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: it's just so that's just what everyone here refers to
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: it as. But yeah, most of our listeners are not
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: from BC, so they'd be like, what does that mean?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Vancouver Island. You were over in Tafino.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's dope, so dope. So I went as promised
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: to Taco Fino and I put a Jacko sticker on there,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and then I was also getting you beer. Yeah, and
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: the Tafino Brewing, I think it's called Taffino Brewing. Cope.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: They had a door that had stickers all over and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, we're gonna put one on there,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: and so yeah, sweet, we're representing in there twice now.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: So to keep our promise that we mentioned in the
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: last episode. I believe it was the last one. Whoever
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: sends us a selfie with those stickers, whoever's the first one,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: We'll send you some swag. We'll send you some.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Merch because, honestly, if you are into Fino, those are
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: two places that you have to check out. I don't
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: even like beer, but that brewery is cool.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It's good too, it's delicious. And taco Fino.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Well, I posted a photo of my meal,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: like I literally finished that meal, and then I was like,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: should I go stand back and line and get this again?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: So good.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: So regarding Nicole being on vacation, I also had a
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: crazy busy week at work, so we are a little
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: bit behind on our social media. So we're sorry if
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: we haven't replied. We're gonna be getting on that in
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the next door.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: We're very behind.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I do have something that I want to just make
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: a quick little highlight on in true crime news here
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: coming out. Okay, did you hear about the Gabby Potito update?
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I did not.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Actually, Well, Brian Laundry had a piece from his little notebook,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: like the notebook that was found with him, right, Yeah,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the lawyer released a page from said notebook. Okay, and
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: there's a particular sentence that I want to read.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I have no idea about this.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: You ready for this? So this is directly from Brian
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Laundry's notebook. It says this, I don't know the extent
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: of Gabby's injuries, only that she was in extreme pain.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I ended her life. I thought it was merciful, that
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: it was what she wanted. But I see now all
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: the mistakes I made. I panicked, I was in shock,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: but from the moment I decided took away her pain,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I knew I couldn't go on without her.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: Yi.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: That's what was found in his notebook. So I haven't
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: even gone back to reflect on this case much since
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: we did the one episode on it. Yeah, because I've
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: been wanting more and more to come out. I've been
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: wanting to let this stuff resurface before we do more research.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: So by the sounds of it, we probably cover this
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: case here pretty quick because I think it's going to
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: be coming to a close.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, I feel like it's kind
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: of what everyone thought may have happened, you know, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: then also really hoped itn't.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but I mean, by the sounds of it
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to say this right now, I haven't
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: done my research regarding this. I pretty much read this
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: sentence and that's it. But from the sounds of this sentence,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: it seems like something else could have happened. Maybe she
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: fell off a cliff for an edge or something and
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: he was trying to end her pain. Maybe he didn't
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: initially attack her. I don't know.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Well, didn't she suffer from mental health though? If that's
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: what I kind of almost took it as maybe that
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: she was struggling in that sense and that he felt
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: like he was taking.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Away the pain with that hard to say.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: But yeah, we definitely need to read and read up
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: on it a bit more. But gosh, that's just like
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: it's devastating.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: It is, it really is. So anyways, just wanted to
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: touch on that because it was quite the crazy news
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: that popped up. We are going to move on to
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: hinter Kaifek Okay, you ready for this?
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I am What do.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: You know about the hinter Kaifak murders?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Literally I only know what the footprints, and I know
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: at one point I knew more, but I cannot, for
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: the life of me recall what oaks happened. So I
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: would like to relearn.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Well, there is a lot of hearsay about this case.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Let's put it that way, okay, But what we do
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: know we're going to dive into. We're going to go
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: over it all. So to start off, I'm going to
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: zoom in on my word document here because it's a
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: little bit too small.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: And you haven't gone and got those glasses yet, have
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: you glass? I don't need glasses, pretty sure you do, babe.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: It's just my screen is fairly small and I'm not
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: like right up close to it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: But I also think you need glasses.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Well I can, It's just I want to make it easier.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. But then there's me or I'm trying
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: to You're like showing what we were measuring something today, right, oh,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: to see if certain storage things will fit into the
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: tiny home because we need a little bit better storage
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: systems going on.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you for clarifying what we were measuring. And I
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: can't see how big that is?
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Well, and like you're holding up the tape and I
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: was like, I literally can't see the number, Like what
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: is it? Because I didn't have my glasses on. Like
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm getting more and more blind as
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I get older.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: That's that's age for you.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I don't love it.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I still don't require glasses, but I do think I'm
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: getting to that point where I might start to need them.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: So well, see, I don't wear mine half the time,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: so I mean if I wore them, I probably less
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: struggle a little less.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But anyways, I zoomed in on my screen here.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: It's a lot easier to read, so I'm not like
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: focusing too much. So you ready for this mm hm.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: In the early nineteen twenties, the Hinterfec farm Hinterfec I
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: should pronounce it properly. Hinterfec Farmstead sat lonely and isolated,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and it was located near the woods outside the Bavarian
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: town of Growburn, about seventy kilometers from Munich, Germany, and
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: one kilometer behind or hinter in Germany of the town Kuifect.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Thus born the name hinter Kifecht Okay. It was the
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: home of thirty five year old Victoria Gabriel and her
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: two children, seven year old Cecilia and two year old Joseph, All,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: as well as the elderly parents I can't talk today.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Elderly parents Andreas and Cezelia Gruber so Cecilia Junior and senior. Okay,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and finally they're made Maria, who's age forty four. I'm
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: not even going to try and say her name. I
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: think it's Bomb Gardner. I just said I'm not going
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: to try, and I just said it as well. Okay,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: just dive in head first there. The family was known
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: for keeping to themselves for the most part as they
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: tended to their farm. They're mostly self sufficient and they
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: didn't really have to go outside their property a whole lot. Like,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: they grew their own food. They had cattle and cows,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. It was pretty much like what
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: they needed. They had love that right, that good old homestead.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: That is literally like life goals for me.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Little farm outain an oasis.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I think our this so off topic story,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: but I think our first farm thing is going to
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: be ducks.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe I think we might purchase ducks soon.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Well, you might want to change your mind about the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: whole home setting thing once you learn a little more
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: about this case. Oh shit, because on April first, in
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: nineteen twenty two, neighbors began to get a little worried
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: so things around their property were just a little bit
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: too quiet. Young Cezelia missed school and the entire family
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: failed to show up for church. And Victoria was a
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: member of the choir, so it was very rare that
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: this occurred.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: So that was a big deal.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then on April third, Czelia would again miss
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: school and it was noted that the family's mail had
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: begun to pile up at the local post office. So
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: on April fourth, neighbors decided it was time to investigate.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: So the neighbor, Lorenz Schlittenbauer, who was a farmer who
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: just lived nearby, led the search party to check on
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the family and their farm. What they discovered was brutal
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and would likely haunt them for the rest of their lives.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Oh No. In the barn they would find the remains
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of four of the family residents, brutally murdered. Their bodies
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: were covered in hay and stacked on top of one another.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Inside the house, bodies of two year old Joseph and
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the maid Maria were found. Now, Maria had actually just
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: started in the position of maid for the family. The
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: previous maid had actually quit six months prior. Due to
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the belief that the hinter Kaifek house and farm were haunted.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Wha Oh seriously yep, So she's probably like counting her
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: lucky stars that she dodged a serious bullet.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and that whole thought process of it
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: being haunted is exactly where we're going to go back
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: to and start this story, because it seems like her
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: beliefs may have had some serious weight and facts behind them.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Wow, or that's just like honestly her just totally listening
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: her intuition too or something.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Hey, well we'll touch on it. It was a little
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: more obvious than intuition, okay, because strange things did begin
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to occur around the hinter Kaifak house in the earlier
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: months of nineteen twenty two. So as I mentioned the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: previous maid, like I said, quit gone, and by the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: time she left, she was one hundred percent like worn
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: out from lack of sleep. It had been widely claimed
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: that for her reason of leaving was she heard strange
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: noises coming from the attic and believed that the house
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: was haunted as a result. She wasn't alone, though, many
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: members of the family heard noises such as footsteps coming
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: from the attic as well, so it wasn't so much
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: a oh an intuition, am I gut feeling.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: It was happening.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: It was happening. It was a fact there was noises
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: coming from up yonder.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Okay, that's just like terrifying. I don't
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: actually know if I would be able to just continue
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: living there, Like I think I'd hear like what or
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: maybe twice and I'd just be like no, yeah.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: But there's a difference of Ah. I mean, nowadays you
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: can just pick up a move if you want. It's
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: not quite so easy back in the nineteen twenties, I guess,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: like we're talking around like World War One and stuff, right, I.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Mean, it wouldn't be super easy for anyone if you
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: like owned your house and shit, what are you supposed to.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Do but sell it? But yeah, oh boy, don't you
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: have to like confide in the realtor and stuff and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: actually disclose that sort of information if there's potential hauntings
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: or murders in your house and stuff.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Murders and like I believe so I'm not certain about hauntings,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: but probably, but I mean, hey, that could just be
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: like if it only happened a couple times.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: That's true, because the wind, how do you exactly quantify
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: him haunting?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it could literally just you could say it
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: was like your imagination.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: It was the wind.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we left our window open in the attic for
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: a couple of days.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, there's a raccoon up there. Anyways,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Andreas Kruber had conversations regarding some of these strange happenings
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: with at least one of their neighbors. He had mentioned
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: that one night he had discovered something odd on this property. Footprints,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: the very footprints that you were talking about a moment earlier. Now,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the property at the time was covered in a blanket
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of thick white snow. That coat of the fields and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the trees beyond the property, right out of the forest
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: and the tree line. A single set of footprints led
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: to Andrea's property and all the way up to his home,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: but they did not lead away.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Huh oh.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one set came in. It wasn't from him. It
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: wasn't anyone else in the family either. One set came in,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: but they didn't go back.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know though, what happens if it is one
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: of the family members that was just not emitting two right,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, Devil's advocate here, how did the family
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: member get all the way out in the bush and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: then walk into the house.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe they were like off drinking somewhere
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: and they should have been home and they're just like, well,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: you would probably notice if the footprints were staggering, right, Yeah,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: fair enough? But yeah, no, that it would be very alarming.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think you especially, you would be like no, like,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: there's just no way you can handle that.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: No.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I would be going through like everything, like everything, I'd
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: be looking in a fucking cleen xbox to see if
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: there's someone hiding in that bitch.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I think I could let something like that go a
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: little bit easier than you. But yeah, that would drive
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: you wild.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I'm paranoid with that sort of shit.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Now, he had also found that the shed on their
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: property had its lock broken and smashed. The metal lock
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: was dangling, and the wood surrounding the lock had been
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: scratched and scraped around it. Now, it appeared, and someone
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: was rifling around inside the shed, but nothing seemed to
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: be missing or stolen. No one seemed to know anything
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: or see anything regarding anything about these incidents, not the family,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: not Andreas, not the neighbors. Now, later that same night,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: the family was awake late into the evening. It was
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: said that I can't say this name. What was it?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: How'd I say it again?
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: A daughter's name?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, Oh crap, Celia. I just need to think instead
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of a ce, I need to say with A with
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: an S, Sazilia.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: And it's probably spelt how's it spelled.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: C A z I l I A. Oh. Okay, so
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: it's like Kazilia. But yeah, so it's Sazilia.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: So they were up late because Cecilia Senior had apparently
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: and an explicit and explicitly run off, and the rest
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: of the family had been up looking for her.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, this is the grandma.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so she was out gallivanting in the bush
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: like you were just saying, though she was leaving footprints around.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, but hey, maybe that was to grandma.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Then maybe maybe Now, though it was never explained why
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: she had run off, she was brought back safely. However,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: during the search, Andreas came across something else that was
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: odd and he couldn't explain. It was a newspaper. Now,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the papers seem to have urged, I can't talk today.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, I'm sorry. Guys originated there we go from Munich,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: but no one had purchased such paper. In fact, no
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: one ever purchased a paper from Munich, not them, or
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: again anyone around the farm, not neighbors or anything.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: And was it from like the same time.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Period, Yes, yes it was? Yeah?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Really okay? That that would be something that would drive
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: me fucking nuts. Really, I don't think I could handle that.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: That one won't wouldn't drive me, Oh.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: No, I would. That one would drive me wild. I
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: would be like, why the fuck is this here? Who
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: brought this here? Like, I wouldn't be able to let
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: that one go. But footprints, But footprints I could see.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like, who the fuck's footprints are those that shows
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: tangible evidence of a person being there. A newspaper could
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: have fallen off the back of something or blown in
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: from the wind.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know that is in your house though, Yeah,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Newspaper is an item. Footprints are evidence
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: of a person in my opinion, So the footprints would
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: drive me more nuts. Anyways, after Andreas had talked to
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the delivering man of the paper, he had learned that
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: he never delivered such paper either, and in all honesty,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: the postman didn't seem to think much of this and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: thought it was odd that Andreas was so concerned over
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: a newspaper from Munich. But the delivery guy wasn't the
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: one with the footsteps leading onto his property and continuing
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: above his head at night as he slept. So I
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: think Andreas had every right to be a little concerned,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: especially when these things start adding up.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if too many things are happening, then you're
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: just anything is going to put you on edge.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean if you think about it, one thing
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: alone okay, yeah, sure, footprints okay, yeah, sure, a paper okay, yeah,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: or someone broke into my shed okay, yeah, hearing noises
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: in the.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Attic, Okay, they're hearing noises. An addict alone would be enough, Okay, But.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I mean an old, older farmhouse, Yeah, could have been
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a squirrel up there. Yeah, and who knows, right, Yeah,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: But an accumulation of all these things, it's a lot,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: takes it to the next level, totally does Yeah. So
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: now with each of these strange and unexplained things happening,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: another thing would happen that was a little bit more normal,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: but once combined with all these things again made it
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: a little more suspicious. The only key they had to
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: their home had gone missing. The only key to their house.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Gone Okay, the fact that only one key is crazy.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Well, we are talking about nineteen twenties though, too, right,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: a little bit.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Not as simple just going down the street and getting
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: another key cut.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Might not be. Yeah, So Andreas talked to their neighbor,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Lorenz Schlittenbauer, the man who would later conduct the search
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: party and find everyone on the Stone Boy, and he
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: would tell police about how Andreas had asked us if
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: anyone had seen their key, if he had seen it
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: around or anything. Yeah, and he had actually implied of
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the key being stolen rather than simply being lost or misplaced,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: or at least he suspected.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Fair enough, fair enough.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Really, well again, with all these sort of things accumulating
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: and going on, Yeah, that's that's when people's thing mind
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: start to wander, at least for me.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, if you only had one key
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: to your house and it's gone like that would not
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: feel great.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: And you're probably going to be making sure you look
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: after that key, considering you only have one. So he's
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: going to be going nuts. That's that would be me.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: My mind would be going nuts. I would be losing
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: my shit.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah no at that point.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So, I mean, something's clearly going on, and
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: it's going on inside their home, and it didn't seem
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: like anyone knew what it was, despite you know, questions,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: despite investigating, despite asking, despite searching, everything just seemed normal,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: no matter how hard they looked. Now, it's also said
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: that Andreas declined to borrow a gun from one of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: his neighbors to help protect himself and his family. He
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: felt he was fully capable of defending them without it,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and he would soon find out that he was wrong. Now,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I do mention a little bit later on about firearms,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: but Andreas actually had firearms hisself as well. Okay, So,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: on the night of March thirty first, nineteen twenty two,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: their new maid would start working on the farm with
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: the family, and unfortunately for her, it was very bad
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: timing as it would be the last time she or
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the rest of the family would be seen alive.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Like she's literally started and then died.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: It would be another four days after the night of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: March thirty first, before anything was discovered before anyone realized
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: what had happened. So as I had mentioned the family
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: had missed church, one of the kids had missed school.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: The multiple people stated they had stopped by the hinter
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Kaife family home to visit the family for various reasons,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: but none of them were met with a response. When
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: they knocked on the door of the farmhouse. They weren't
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: met with much concern. Though it was odd, yes, but
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: it's not like it's odd to say that someone could
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: be out in the field working. It's not like it's
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: odd to say someone could have been off in the barn,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: or they're off in the property.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Someone's taking single one of them though, that's when.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: It starts to bring up the question. Some neighbors actually
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: reported even seeing smoke rising out of the chimney from
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: the home, so clearly someone must have been home.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Others even reported peeking in the windows after knocking on
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the door and not being met with a response, and
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: seeing food had been prepared. Also, others had reported that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: the cattle were getting fed. It was obvious someone was
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: around and tending to the property one way or another.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: It was on April fourth of nineteen twenty two, when
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: someone would finally realize something wasn't quite right. A repair
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: man showed up to hinter Kaifak to repair something on
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the farm equipment. He went on his way to the
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: machine shed and he found out it was locked, so
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: he proceeded to make his way up to the house
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: to try and get someone to unlock it for him.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: But as he knocked, just like everybody else, he wasn't
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: met with a response, but he did hear the family
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: dog barking from inside the home. So without the response,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and him being a handyman and good with tools, he
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: went back to the shed and removed the door himself.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: He did his work and replaced the door. Once he
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: was done, he did the repairs as he needed and
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: once he was done, he realized that the barn door
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: was now wide open and the family dog is tied
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: up outside the.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: House and it was in the house before.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Correct Holy shit, But once again he couldn't find anyone
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: that fucked that is so fucked you think so.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, excuse my French, but holy shit, I'd pee my pants.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Your eyes are just shifting back and forth.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: What are you thinking, Well, I'm also watching the Scito
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: that's after you.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get this little fucker.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: That is so crazy that this person started a job
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: to like the dog inside the house, the barn closed,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: finish the job, and those things are reversed, and yet
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: he hasn't seen anyone or no one's like come to
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: check on in him or anything like that is so
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: whack whacked.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: That is so wack, yo.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: That is so whacked. Like, I I don't know that.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like I don't super believe in ghosts and stuff.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: But that's kind of fishy. A lot of the stuff's
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: getting a little fishy.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: That's kind of fishy. Okay, Well, he wasn't able to
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: find anyone yet again, so he made his way to
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the neighbors and informed them that he was unable to
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: speak with the family, but he wanted to pass it
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: along that he had done the job that he had
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: been hired to do.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, what a good guy.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: So this is when neighbors decided that they would go
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: to the farm and search for the family. It had
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: been four days no one had seen them or had
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: even heard the droning of the farm equipment ringing across
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the fields. But they must be there now if the
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: repairman or handyman if what he spoke was true, because
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: barn door opened, the dogs outside right, these sort.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Of thanks gosh yeah.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: So they made their way to hinder Kaifek and they
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: entered the barn and that's when they quite literally stumbled
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: across the bodies crudely covered in hay. Police were of
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: course quickly called to the scene. There were a total
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: of six people in the hinter Kaifak home who passed
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: away on this terrible night. Andreas was dressed in only
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: his undershirt and pants when he was found and Cecilia
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: nailed it. Senior, who was fully dressed, along with Victoria
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: who was fully dressed but wore no shoes, and Cecilia
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Junior in her nightgown, were all found murdered in the.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Barn ah brutal.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: After this, police determined whoever did this moved into the
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: house for the rest of the family. The theory the
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: police conducted was that whoever this was must have lured
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: the family out to the barn, potentially one at a time,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: perhaps by letting out cattle or maybe leaving a door open.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Could have even been by getting the cattle to make
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: a bunch of noise or something like that to lure
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: them out to see what was going on, and then
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: when the next person didn't return, the next went out
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: to see what was happening.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know about that, but okay, well, who knows.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Could they not have just moved them out to the
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: barn after they were like dead.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: That's possible, But the thought was, Okay, they were like
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: in their pajamas. Basically, they're throwing on their pants real
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: quick or something to go out and check. Yeah, that's
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: kind of the thought. And one thing's for sure. Luing
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: each person out one to time in the evening would
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: make for easier targets, especially if you're hiding in the
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: shadows rather than bombarding a full household people.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: And well, who was in the pot in that pile
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: of four people?
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's the grandparents, Andreas and Cecilia. Okay, their
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: daughter Victoria I believe her name is, and then she
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: has two kids of her own, and one of her kids,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Cecilia Junior, is found in the barn.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, got it, sure, I'm good.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, So each victim was brutal bludgeoned in the head
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: with some sort of sharp tool or implement oh boy.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Most notably, seven year old Cezelia was found with the
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: same wounds as everyone else battered among her along her
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: head and face, but she was also found with a
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: shattered jaw and clumps of her own hair tightly clenched
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: in her hand as if she had ripped it from
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: her own scalp.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's odd, Okay.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Get ready for this. This led investigators to believe that
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: she may have remained alive for several hours after being attacked.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: She could have been potentially writhing in pain as she
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: laid with her deceased family members in the barn. It
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: is assumed that she would have been pulling at her
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: own hair due to the extreme pain she was feeling
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: before her desk.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Man. That is sad as shit. Yes, and this little
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: girl is like seven and in her nightgown. Oh my gosh,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: yes wow.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Now inside the house, two year old Joseph Gabriel was
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: found with only a single blow to his head, but
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: he was found dead as well, along with the maid
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Maria Bumgardner, who was attending her first day on the jaw.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: She was found stuffed under the bed next to her
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: backpack full of personal possessions still unpacked from arriving at
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the house. Holy shit, that backpack is The key detail
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to the date of the attack was when she started,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: which was the four days prior.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: To being found. Okay, I get it, because yeah, if
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: it had been later on, then she might have been
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: a little bit more settled in or something.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Yep, even unpacking another set of clothes or anything, but
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: her bag was completely packed up. Still.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Good lord. They would probably just like get to know
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Probably most likely the family honestly probably enjoyed their first
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: dinner being cooked by her before they went to bed.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Or who knows, maybe they didn't even get to enjoy
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: that dinner. Maybe whoever did this ate the dinner on
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: their own.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's a thought and a half.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: It's gross all in all, though, evidence was really hard
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: to gather between the time of the murders and the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: time of the discovery, so many different people had visited
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: the property, so much of it was tainted.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: It's even reported that one man had eaten food from
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the family's kitchen while they were waiting for police to arrive.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: What yeah, like after they had found the bodies and stuff. Correct,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: just like goes in the fucking kitchen for a snack. Correct, Okay,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: that has to be a joke.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: There's hardly any facts surrounding this case. Most of it
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: is hearsay, but that is a report.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is mind blowing that you literally are in
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: a situation where a family has just been gone, they're gone, yeah,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: and you decide that you're hungry and going to see
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: what they have for food.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this person has the audacity to sit there and
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: be like, all right, well, I'm gonna make myself a
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: fucking sam Like, are you kidding me?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's a lot okay, Okay.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: So the police first suspected that the motive of this
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: whole incident was robbery, and they questioned the neighbors. They
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: even question like vagrants in the area and several inhabitants
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: from the surrounding villages, but as it turned up with
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: no leads. I also want to point this out somehow,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the handyman, you know, the one who was there that day,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: he wasn't interviewed until eleven years after the murder in
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three. Seriously, seriously, and it is unclear to
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: this day as to why.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that's that's weird as fuck.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: That seems super weird.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that aside, do with that information that you will.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: But robbery was quickly ruled out as well. In fact,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: that a large amount of money was actually found inside
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the home the family savings, so it was still relatively intact.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: So robbery kind of ruled out off the table. So
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: police didn't have much to go on. It was mostly
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: hearsay from the neighbors and an idea that they were
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: looking for, you know, a murder weapon that was kind
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: of like sharp slash, blunt ish. It's hard to really
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: go with much on that. Other than these things, the
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: only real discovery police made during the investigation was that
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: all the firearms of family had it's stashed in various
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: places they were apparently missing following the murders.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Humhm. And basically all the other stuff just the stuff
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: that they had told the neighbor basically too right, yeah hm.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Now whatever the case, one thing's for sure. It was
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: clear that whoever was responsible had remained at the farm
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: for several days. The cattle were being fed, food had
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: been eaten. In fact, the entire supply of bread from
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the kitchen was gone, and someone had recently cut meat
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: from the pantry. But I mean, that's about it. There's
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: no more clues, there's no more evidence. Nothing. Even searching
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the house and in the attic where the alleged footsteps
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: were heard turned up nothing.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I just want to say this, because you murder an
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: entire family, but you're going to stay living there and
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: take care of the cattle.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Correct?
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Why the fuck would you give a shit about the cattle?
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Who fucking knows? That's part of the why the what?
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: That crazy? Yeah? That just like I mean I could
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: see like just kind of hanging out and maybe chilling
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and like eat eating the food and stuff.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I can.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I get that, but like to also take care of,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: like the property doesn't make sense.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Well, the one thing for me is if there's an
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: individual who's going to go on taking care of the cattle,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: they have some sort of tie to at least the area.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: There's a reason they're taking care of the cattle, right,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: There's a reason they're not family. Yeah, yeah, there's a
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: reason they're not running either. A they want to stay
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: at the house for as long as possible, so they
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: don't want to cause a scene, right, okay, or b
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: they don't want to draw suspicion from others in the area,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: So for whatever reason they're trying to prolong. Prolonging is
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: the goal one way or the other.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I almost wond or two if they knew the
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: family of sorts, it's possible potentially, and then they're just
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: taking care of the household the situation. Hmmm, wow, wow wow.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I said, evidence clues, nothing pretty much turned up,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: that is until one year later. Now the new owners
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: of the property.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: After oh my gosh, there's no way what I like that.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I can't believe someone's living there.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Well, after this, well, the new owners decided to tear
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: down the farmhouse.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's a fair, fair thing.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: That was after all, like the court proceedings and who
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: owns what and all that sort of stuff. They decided
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: that they were going to tear down the farmhouse, and
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: upon doing so, they discovered the murder weapon. Oh now,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: initially the weapon was thought to be a pick axe
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: that was found in the barn the night that everyone
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: was discovered, and that pick axe was pointed out by
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the neighbor Lorenz, who officially initially went with the search party.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: But the discovery of the farm tool was called a
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: mattock and it was smeared with blood on the hand
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: and stashed in a small nook on one of the
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: sheds connected to the house, and it changed the idea
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: on what the murder weapon was. Now. Police claim up
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and down that they searched the house and the area
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: extremely thoroughly and they should have found that item in
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: its location, which leads the theory that it was stashed
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: in its hiding spot after the murder and after the
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: investigation had taken place.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: So whoever it was had this went back to place
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: it there.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Which I mean happens.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: That's true, that's true, but that's just.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Like playing some serious games too.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So you're probably looking at someone who lives in
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: the area, in my opinion, But there's also people who
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: think about, well, what if this person was still living
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: in that house, those footsteps in the attic, What if
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: there was a section of the house where they were hiding.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: What if people just didn't find that this person was
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: hiding in the fucking walls or something. Oh my gosh,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: and maybe they were still there long after the investigation.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Oh I hate that so much. Can you imagine someone
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: just living in your house. Oh there's like, I've heard
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: of this happening before.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's stories of that.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So ugh. So that is pretty much all we know
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: about the hinter Kaifak case. However, that doesn't mean that's
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: the end of this because there are a lot and
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I mean a lot of theory I.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Could imagine, I could imagine.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: So it's going to take us hours upon hours to
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: even start going through all these theories. So I picked
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: kind of the two most popular ones, and we're going
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to cover these two here. Hey, and it is going
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: to start with Carl Gabriel, who is the husband of
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Victoria Gabriel. So this was the father of the two
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: kids who was murdered, the husband of the woman who
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: was murdered, part of this family, right, No.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Carl, they were obviously separated.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Well Carl, I'll tell you exactly here. He was reportedly
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: killed previously in a war while serving in France by
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: a shell attack on December of nineteen fourteen during the
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: First World War. So I don't know if it was
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: separation or if they were just separated via the war.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: You know, he had gone off to war, he had
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: been drafted, whatever it was. But However, like many others
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: who served World War One, his body had never actually
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: been recovered. Now, after the murders, people began to speculate
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: on whether he had indeed died from the war. And
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: it wasn't arbitrary speculation either, there was some motive behind
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the idea. Now, Victoria Gabriel had given birth to her son, Joseph,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: in her husband's absence, and it's unknown exactly who the
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: father of the two year old Joseph was, but it
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: was rumored to potentially be the son of Victoria and
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: her father Andreas.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: What yeah, oh, okay, I wasn't expecting that the.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Two had an incestuous relationship that was previously documented in court.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Is legit.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: This is legit and was known by the surrounding village. Now,
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: one thing that I'm not certain of is some reports
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: say that it was potentially due to rape, and others
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: say it was consensual. I cannot confirm either of those.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: The one thing that we do know for sure is
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: that there are documents of this relationship.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Gross.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: So, after the end of this Second World War, war,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: captives were released prematurely from Soviet captivity, and they had
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: claimed to have been sent home by a German speaking
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Soviet officer who blatantly and like openly claimed to be
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the murderer of hinter Kaifek. It is theorized that this
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Soviet officer may have been Carl Gabriel himself, and some
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: suggest that he had later on after these murderers fled
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: to Russia.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, but why would he ah, I mean, like, but
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: he killed his daughter, he did? That doesn't make any sense.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe he just wants to move on. Maybe he
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: had so much anger, Maybe she was a byproduct of
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the whole thing and didn't even mean to kill her.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: It's hard to say. Maybe he was so messed up
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: with his PTSD, because we know that's a.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Very real thing, very real thing.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, maybe he came back and was so fucked up
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: because he didn't know what to do with himself and
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: he ended up going so far off the edge.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I just feel like that theory, I mean,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: it makes a little bit of sense.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: With them.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: There's some very much so innocent people in that situation.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the grandma. I was thinking the grandma and
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: the daughter. But maybe not necessarily the gramma either, if
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: she knew what the hell is going on? That's crazy.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: So that's that's one popular theory though that one's a
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: little bit out there, but it is. It is a
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: popular theory. Now, one of the most prolific theories out
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: there is actually surrounding Lorenz Schlittenbauer, who was the neighbor
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: to hinter Kaife.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, I've already thought this.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: He was the one who actually led the search party
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: that day. So it is thought that Lorenz could have
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: also had relationship to Victoria Gabell and fathered Joseph. Now,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Lorenz had actually already previously had divorced with his I
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: don't actually I can't remember. I don't have the note
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: in here. I can't remember if it's divorced or if
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: it's widowed. But he was now separated from his previous wife.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Previous wife, So Lorenz came under suspicion by locals early
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: in the investigation because several suspicious actions. Immediately after the
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: discoveries of the body. Now and Lorenz and his friends
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: arrived to investigate, Lorenz apparently unlocked the front door of
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: the house with the key.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I was gonna be like, is he eaten a sandwich?
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I wasn't huondering is that him. But oh my.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Gosh, he unlocked the house with a key. Wow. And
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: he entered the house very specifically alone before anyone else
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: was able to go in with him.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: But he made sure that he had eyewitnesses seen him enter.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: He made sure he had eyewitnesses watching him disturb the bodies,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: disturb the scene. He though I couldn't find notes on this,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: he very well could have been the individual who had
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: eaten food in the kitchen. He was fucking shit up
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: with witnesses showing Oh no, if there's fingerprints there, it's
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Lorenz because I just saw him over there.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, and also very much doll makes sense that
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: he would be taking care of the cattle and stuff too, yeap.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: And it also makes very much sense that he could
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: return to hide a murder weapon.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And it also makes very much sense that he was
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: conveniently the one to point out, oh hey, that pickaxe
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: over there looks like the murder.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Weapon, which would It doesn't make any sense because the
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: murder weapon would be covered in blood, and you would
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: think there had had to have been so so if
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: that one had no blood on it, that's dumb.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now I do want to point out, it is
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: possible that he acquired a key by other means, such
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: as being given one for neighborly duties. I mean, we
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: all at least had a neighbor at some point that
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: probably had access to our apartment or house or no,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: someone who does, which.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: We're all going to rethink at this time.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: I think, or if he did have a relationship with Victoria,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: very well could have been like, here's the key for
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: my secret lover.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but there was apparently only one written key
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: for the house.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: That's true, but that doesn't mean another one couldn't have
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: been made without others.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Not at some point, you mean, even after that conversation, perhaps,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, so who knows now. When asked about why he
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: went into the house alone, he stated he was looking
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: for his son Joseph.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Like, is that the little boy's name?
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: That's a little boy's name, that's a two year old? Yes, okay,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: So it leads even more suspicion that, well, is he
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the dad? What the so? Finally, according to reports, Lorenz
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: was actually found visiting the remains of the demolished hinter
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Kaifak home in nineteen twenty five, and when he was
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: asked why he was visiting, he made a very odd statement.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: He said that the perpetrators attempted to bury the family's
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: remains in the barn, and that had been hindered by
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: the frozen ground. Now we remember there's all this snow, right, Yeah,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: it is exactly frozen. And I don't know if anyone
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: out there knows what it's like digging frozen ground.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: But it's pretty much impossible.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good luck. It's like it's like digging concrete. Not
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: going to happen. So this could show intimate knowledge of
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: the case. It could show that he was there, it
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: could show it could have been him. It could show
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: that he was just simply making an educated guest.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Though too well, unless there was some sort of evidence
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: in the barn to show that it was an attempt made. Right,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: maybe there was a shovel and it looked like a
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: few dense or whatever into the frozen ground.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Why was that never showed in the case though? Why
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: was that never showed to investigators? If that was maybe
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: they missed shit.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: This already missed some other shit.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, potentially, Either way, there's no way to know for
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: sure if that was anything to show he did it
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: or not, but it's just another weird thing.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I was playing devil's advocate there, But I
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: think it makes sense that it was him. Even as
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: you were like presenting all this as like it might
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: the back of my head, I'm like, he's sketched. There's
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: something sketch about him. I don't know why he does that.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: He seemed sketch to me, and I tried not to
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: portray it in a way where he seems sketched.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Well you didn't, but there was just like something happened,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: something red flag.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Well this I don't know if this is going to
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: save him or not and tear down that red flag.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: But before his death in nineteen forty one, Lorenz conducted
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: and won several civil claim for slander against persons who
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: described him as quote murder of hinter Kaifek.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's pretty sad if he didn't do it
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: right and then everyone's accusing him like that's terrible it is.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, how do you go about not being
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: a suspect though? Like, if you are a suspect and
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: people think you did it and it's they've got tangible
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: reason to think and say, so, how do you dig
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: yourself out? Of that, but clearly they didn't really have
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: anything tangible because and I'm just gonna play the two
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: sides of this coin here, because either he didn't do it,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: or he was smart enough to make sure he covered
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: his tracks in the way of that night he did
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: fuck up the crime scene enough and did have eyewitnesses
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: to make sure that they clarified it was moved. He
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: was just over here touching that to give him reason
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: to have his prints in whatever around the scene.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Interesting, So the case was closed in nineteen fifty five.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: It was closed and titled to be you know, unsolved,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: though it had been revisited and again closed since then,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: but still no new leads or evidence has ever been found.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: The case of hinter Kaifek remains a mystery, and after
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: one hundred years of being unsolved, it is presumed that
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: it will probably stay that way for the rest of time.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, they didn't have any means or they
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: didn't collect evidence in such like they do nowadays, right,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: so how correct put it? But I also just have
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: to say that handyman.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Like eleven years later and the fact.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: That he would have known ended up knowing what happened,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: and like that would be something that would be kind
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: of I don't know. I would hate just living my
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: life knowing that he could have very easily die too.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Yep. Right, Well, he's sitting here working on some farm equipment,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: probably turning over the engine. Probably Love is not paying attention, Yeah,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: probably having his back to the door.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: When the murderer is there. It has to have been.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Right now, this begs the question did the murderer know
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: they were there? Did the murderer know what this handyman
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: was working?
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably because you would have thought that they would
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: have heard them.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and actually this is something I didn't mention
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: in this case at all, and it is a good
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: time to actually bring it up. I believe, if I
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: get this correct, you have to go through like the
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: machine shed where he was working in the machinery. You
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: have to go through there to go into the door
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: of the barn. Now, in that barn is where the
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: bodies were found. Okay, Okay, Now there was another door
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: that I guess was wide open or something somewhere when
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: he came out. But inside that barn is where the
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: bodies were found. Now, the theory of the individual luring
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: people out one at a time into the barn.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: They did a test to see if you could hear
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: someone screaming from that barn, from the house. From the barn,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: you could not hear anyone screaming, which begs a question,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: could you hear a piece of equipment running? Did that
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: murderer or whoever it was, know the handyman was working
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: in there at the time. If they had known, did
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: they just let him go or did they?
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe they didn't, because the thing is when the
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: handyman arrived, they maybe weren't even there right, and like
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: wandered over at some point and like to let that
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: all go and stuff.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who knows.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's so crazy.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: That's the case of hinter Kaifak. It is a mind fuck.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: And the biggest thing about it is there is such
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: little information there is well there's a lot of information,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: but there's little facts. Good luck tracking down and proving
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: much of this. Now. There are books, there are documentaries,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: and I believe there is the historic site as well,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: but a lot of the things are not written in facts.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: It's all hearsay, it's all the stories.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I would like to do a deep dive almost
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: into the more theories too, like that would be interesting
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to just read what people have to say.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are some wild theories out there, so if
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: you guys want to dive into them, go ahead. Let
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: us know what you think. I've done enough research on
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: this case. I'm calling it quits after this.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: No, that's totally fair. Yeah, that's a lot.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So thank you for listening, guys, You really appreciate you.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: If you want to, head on over to our Instagram,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: our Facebook, our Patreon, our website, whatever. All the links
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: are down below on Patreon. Over the course of probably
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: the next month or so, we're going to be doing
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of behind the scenes on things like our
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: giveaway and a cool sale we have going on coming
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: up here quick, a lot of cool stuff. So you
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: want to get that behind the scenes, check it out
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: on Patreon as long or along with the monthly episode,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: the exclusive one only for patrons that comes out at
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: the end of every month.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's one coming out in a few days here.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Nichole's doing this one, right, I am.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Do you even know what it is yet?
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: I do, actually, but I'm not giving any hints.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, she doesn't know?
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, Well, I would just have to double check the name.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Though you don't have to tell us. I'm just calling
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: your bluff as all I.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Do know it though, Okay, it is actually very interesting.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: It's a Canadian case so and I feel like it's
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: just a wild story. And I'm curious if many people
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: even heard the story because I had not fair enough.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: So well, I look forward to it.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, well done, Thank you so much for listening,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: and as always, until next time, stay wicked.