Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / NFL Draft QBs with guest Nate Tice

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NFL Draft QBs with guest Nate Tice · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast presented by BED three
0:12
Speaker 1: sixty five. We are part of the Action Network. I
0:15
Speaker 1: am Chad Millman, Chief Content Officer of the Action Network.
0:21
Speaker 1: We have a huge, huge show today as we are
0:24
Speaker 1: counting down the days to the Draft. We will get
0:29
Speaker 1: to our guests, one of the premier podcasters in the
0:33
Speaker 1: NFL space, one of the premier evaluators of college football talent.
0:40
Speaker 1: He's got a lot of hot quarterback takes. But first
0:43
Speaker 1: I am joined by my bff, my co host, my companion,
0:47
Speaker 1: my compadre professional better, Simon Hunter et O.
0:52
Speaker 2: So I am in Chad, How are we doing? Brother?
0:55
Speaker 1: Listen man. One of us is fresh off a wild
1:02
Speaker 1: I can't even describe it as enthusiastically as I would
1:08
Speaker 1: like to a wild night at WrestleMania in Philly. The
1:13
Speaker 1: other has been chasing the solar eclipse. If our listeners
1:18
Speaker 1: had to bet on who did what, I'm fairly certain
1:21
Speaker 1: they would have bet on you losing your mind at
1:24
Speaker 1: WrestleMania and the Undertaker's appearance and the hair raising moment
1:30
Speaker 1: when the entire stadium went black and me nerding out
1:35
Speaker 1: over the eclipse and the sun going black alas Simon.
1:43
Speaker 1: What happened?
1:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, my original plans chat were to head up the Buffalo,
1:49
Speaker 3: but anyone that knows anything we're going on this solar
1:51
Speaker 3: eclipse knows it was all about the cloud coverage, where
1:54
Speaker 3: the clouds were going to be, where they weren't going
1:55
Speaker 3: to be, So yeah, it made a last and decision
1:58
Speaker 3: drove towards Rochester, where our good friend Matt Mitchell is,
2:02
Speaker 3: from which i'd never been to sadly still never been there,
2:05
Speaker 3: because I ended up in a lovely town called Atlanta,
2:07
Speaker 3: New York. And if you've never heard of Atlanta, New York,
2:10
Speaker 3: neither of I until about seven hours ago, made a
2:15
Speaker 3: decision to drive there just because they're predicted did not
2:18
Speaker 3: really have any clouds, and I got really lucky. No
2:21
Speaker 3: clouds for about two full minutes of the three minutes
2:28
Speaker 3: that I saw the totally eclipsed. So cool experience. You
2:33
Speaker 3: don't really know how to describe it. I mean, you
2:35
Speaker 3: can see it online, people can see things of it,
2:37
Speaker 3: but seeing it in person, it's just crazy. It's just
2:41
Speaker 3: another reminder you're we're flowing flying through space at millions
2:46
Speaker 3: of miles per hour around a nuclear bombs is exploding
2:50
Speaker 3: a million times over every second. It's it's a crazy
2:53
Speaker 3: feelling looking up at the moon in front of the sun.
2:56
Speaker 2: But yeah, chad get to it. Wrestled maniac, tell us
2:59
Speaker 2: all the.
2:59
Speaker 1: Deep couple things. Number one. If you want to feel small,
3:03
Speaker 1: sit ringside at rest of with seventy five thousand people
3:08
Speaker 1: going crazy. Our buddy Seth Rollins. His entrance was supreme.
3:13
Speaker 1: He basically had.
3:14
Speaker 2: A margin on your chair.
3:16
Speaker 1: It was, honest to god, was freaking insane, had so
3:22
Speaker 1: much fun. The electricity was pulsating, and yeah, like you know,
3:29
Speaker 1: Logan Paul was there as a villain. The Rock came
3:33
Speaker 1: out as a villain. The Undertaker was there to body
3:36
Speaker 1: slam the Rock. It was just a battle royale at
3:40
Speaker 1: the end. And I was literally ringside for all of it.
3:44
Speaker 1: Like I've got pictures basically up these guys nostrils when
3:47
Speaker 1: they're standing on the top rope. It was so freaking insane.
3:50
Speaker 1: And then afterwards, me and my kid were walking through
3:54
Speaker 1: the bowels of the link because our seats were on
3:57
Speaker 1: the floor. So when you left, you walked out of
4:00
Speaker 1: the tunnel right at the entrance of the stadium and
4:03
Speaker 1: there's John Cena walking around in his jeworts with no shirt.
4:06
Speaker 1: I just walks by and goes, hey, guys, how you doing?
4:09
Speaker 1: And it was like my kid was like, what the
4:12
Speaker 1: freak is happening right now? And the best part is
4:16
Speaker 1: we got to take home our chairs, so like we
4:19
Speaker 1: walked out of the stadium with our chairs and I
4:21
Speaker 1: can't believe it didn't get violent. Like the crowd is
4:24
Speaker 1: so energetic and enthusiastic and happy to be there. It's
4:28
Speaker 1: a wonderfully communal experience. What I'm sure it was like
4:31
Speaker 1: to watch the eclipse. But Simon, we got to get
4:36
Speaker 1: the business right two weeks away. So today's show, we
4:40
Speaker 1: are welcoming back a very special guest to talk about
4:43
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft. The most relentless NFL Draft and film
4:48
Speaker 1: breakdown obsessives you'll find anywhere. He's got a dulcet tone
4:53
Speaker 1: to his voice. We love having him on the show.
4:56
Speaker 1: From the Athletic Football Show, Nate tay put it welcome, Nate.
5:02
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
5:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've heard of Sherman's March to the Sea in Atlanta,
5:09
Speaker 4: but that was Simon's March to c That was I
5:13
Speaker 4: was able to write a joke, ze reade a joke there,
5:16
Speaker 4: So that was good. I knew there was something there
5:18
Speaker 4: and I found it.
5:19
Speaker 2: I found it.
5:21
Speaker 4: I'm jealous of the chair. I knew that you have
5:23
Speaker 4: to take home the chair. I've seen ae w here
5:26
Speaker 4: in Vegas. So I kind of like I was a
5:28
Speaker 4: huge wrestling fan growing up and then got away from it,
5:31
Speaker 4: and then like clost College, got back into it as
5:34
Speaker 4: I was living alone and bored, which kind of seems
5:39
Speaker 4: like it like kind of seems like when I went
5:40
Speaker 4: to AW, I was like my people, but I was
5:43
Speaker 4: like yeah, but I started getting back ato AW and
5:45
Speaker 4: I went to the event, and it's one of those
5:47
Speaker 4: seeing it live and you can watch it as much
5:49
Speaker 4: as you want. You could grow up around it, you
5:50
Speaker 4: could see as many times you want on TV. You
5:53
Speaker 4: watch it live and you get a new appreciation for
5:55
Speaker 4: what these psychos are doing in their ring and just
5:59
Speaker 4: like how big they are and how fast they're moving.
6:00
Speaker 4: So I was, I was. I was enthralled listening to
6:03
Speaker 4: you talk about that, because, like you said, you just
6:04
Speaker 4: watch them buy some and you hear the noise, you
6:06
Speaker 4: hear the guys crash through a table or something. You're like,
6:08
Speaker 4: oh yes, or a chair back in the day, to
6:11
Speaker 4: the to the noggin that you don't really do that
6:13
Speaker 4: so much anymore.
6:14
Speaker 2: But I remember I heard.
6:16
Speaker 4: I was like nine. I saw Scott Steiner whack someone
6:19
Speaker 4: with a chair over the head. I looked to my
6:21
Speaker 4: dad and I was like, That's when I realized. It's like, oh,
6:22
Speaker 4: they didn't think it this like, they're not pulling back
6:25
Speaker 4: like me and my friends are. That was a real
6:27
Speaker 4: chair to the head.
6:27
Speaker 1: So, yeah, guys are pre mass lets. They are dumping
6:30
Speaker 1: out the top rope at two hundred and forty pounds,
6:32
Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty pounds and they are full on
6:35
Speaker 1: flips landing on top of it.
6:39
Speaker 4: And they can't go slow. Yeah, they go slow, they
6:42
Speaker 4: get hurt's yeahs insie, that's what it's said.
6:45
Speaker 1: All right, we're going to dig in deep on the
6:46
Speaker 1: quarterbacks today. You've got a very hot take that is, uh,
6:50
Speaker 1: you know what. It's breaking up the draft community. It
6:53
Speaker 1: really is. We're going to have to dig into it.
6:55
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Speaker 1: a reminder, catch every episode of The Favorites live on YouTube.
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Speaker 1: For those enjoying on YouTube right now, don't forget to
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Speaker 1: give us a like and subscribe to the Action Network
7:46
Speaker 1: YouTube page. I should tell people if I sound a
7:49
Speaker 1: little bit off today, I am in Boulder, Colorado. My
7:53
Speaker 1: family and I flew from Philadelphia to Boulder, touring University
7:59
Speaker 1: of Colorado, my younger son. We're recording this from a
8:03
Speaker 1: hotel room. Nate Tice. Look, everyone is on, Everyone is on.
8:12
Speaker 1: Caleb Williams number one overall prospect for everybody except one person.
8:22
Speaker 1: His name is Nate Tice.
8:25
Speaker 4: Oh that's fair. There's others. There's dozens of us.
8:29
Speaker 1: There's a goddamn movement.
8:32
Speaker 4: There is no there's a maze. And I've I've seen
8:34
Speaker 4: some Jane Daniels thrown in there, which is like, to me,
8:37
Speaker 4: is the hottest scorcher of hot takes I have. This
8:41
Speaker 4: is by how I've had to clarify it. It's a
8:43
Speaker 4: one A, one B situation for me. I freaking love
8:46
Speaker 4: Caleb as well. I love Cale Williams. I think it's
8:48
Speaker 4: a stud I got to break him down like a
8:50
Speaker 4: month ago for Yahoo, not like a month ago, a
8:53
Speaker 4: month ago for Yahoo, and just came away even more
8:56
Speaker 4: impressed than I was going in as far as the
8:58
Speaker 4: accuracy we could do from the pocket. The thing is
9:01
Speaker 4: May has been kind of my guys since day one,
9:04
Speaker 4: and since last May when I no Pun attended, but
9:07
Speaker 4: since last May when I first studied these guys full
9:08
Speaker 4: on watching their twenty twenty two tape. It's like this
9:12
Speaker 4: Drake May looks like the guys that the elite quarterbacks
9:16
Speaker 4: look like right now, as far as size, as far
9:18
Speaker 4: as arm Town as far as aggressiveness, not that Caleb isn't.
9:21
Speaker 4: I just think May May kind of is more so,
9:23
Speaker 4: and I could see it kind of a cleaner path there,
9:25
Speaker 4: even if it's the kind of takeaways the last month
9:28
Speaker 4: have kind of driven me crazy is that he's further away,
9:30
Speaker 4: which we can get into if we want. But every
9:33
Speaker 4: time I've had to kind of bring this up on
9:35
Speaker 4: a show, like a mock, draft or a big board
9:37
Speaker 4: or anything, it kind of rekindles, like because it's been
9:40
Speaker 4: May one a since September on everything. So I do
9:44
Speaker 4: a mock and I have them to the first pick
9:45
Speaker 4: and then it's like my Twitter mentions rekindle for a
9:48
Speaker 4: little bit, and then about a month, it goes away
9:50
Speaker 4: for about six weeks, and then I do another mock
9:51
Speaker 4: or another big board, and then it rekindles again. Oh
9:54
Speaker 4: you're the May guy, okay, and it goes away. So updated,
9:56
Speaker 4: my big board comes out Monday. I thought that would
9:58
Speaker 4: happen on Friday. They released it on Monday. So yeah,
10:01
Speaker 4: So there's the scorture of a hot tache. That's just
10:03
Speaker 4: like I've kind of reconciled with them already. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
10:06
Speaker 4: I'm good.
10:07
Speaker 2: With this. I'm at peace.
10:08
Speaker 4: So I'm kind of I'm at peace with it all,
10:10
Speaker 4: I guess because I just think these these two quarterbacks,
10:12
Speaker 4: May and Williams are just prizes, and I kind of
10:15
Speaker 4: I think others have kind of I've been weirded by
10:17
Speaker 4: the takes a little bit that people are watching this
10:19
Speaker 4: and coming away differently because I think it's kind of
10:21
Speaker 4: clearly so about what they could become.
10:24
Speaker 1: So give me, tell tell me what you mean by weirded.
10:30
Speaker 4: I think there's people are getting scared off about a
10:33
Speaker 4: couple of misses he has, and because he is an
10:35
Speaker 4: ugly misser, I call it like just like a fastball
10:38
Speaker 4: pitcher or a or even justin Perbert in the NFL
10:41
Speaker 4: is a good comparison for this. They won't miss often,
10:43
Speaker 4: but when they do, it's about ten yards wide, or
10:45
Speaker 4: it's just it's a they're a line drive, or sort
10:47
Speaker 4: of just misses hard as opposed to missus often. So
10:50
Speaker 4: it's a bad miss and I think that's been sticking
10:52
Speaker 4: out in people's head. So there's been kind of a
10:54
Speaker 4: narrative about him, is that he's this pocket passer that's
10:57
Speaker 4: not athletic and just stands there and sprays the ball
11:01
Speaker 4: over the yard, good or bad, and misses like he's
11:04
Speaker 4: just an unaimed tank, you know how, it's her tank.
11:06
Speaker 4: And I think it's different. I think he's a fantastic athlete,
11:10
Speaker 4: like a really good athlete, and I think that's what
11:12
Speaker 4: people have been missing about him. I think that he
11:14
Speaker 4: has a clear projection because he's already shown enough mentally
11:17
Speaker 4: physically to be a good quarterback. And I already think
11:20
Speaker 4: he is has a high floor. And it's just funny
11:23
Speaker 4: that others are going like, yeah, he can't fix it.
11:25
Speaker 4: It's like he's already doing it. I don't know what
11:26
Speaker 4: we're talking about here. I think the little negatives are
11:29
Speaker 4: getting kind of extrapolated as opposed to all the positives
11:32
Speaker 4: that he can bring to the table.
11:35
Speaker 3: You would agree though, that it's definitely safer to take
11:37
Speaker 3: Williams as a front office, right, Yes, it would be
11:41
Speaker 3: to take May.
11:42
Speaker 4: Yes, I completely understand taking William's way. That's the thing
11:46
Speaker 4: is they're both graded highly for me, so it's not
11:48
Speaker 4: like me going like, oh, they're so dumb. I think
11:50
Speaker 4: I totally get it. And I've talked about optics, so yeah,
11:54
Speaker 4: I totally understand that. And there originally was some negatives
11:58
Speaker 4: about Caleb about he's too much of a run around guy,
12:00
Speaker 4: like he's not too much in pocket you the more
12:03
Speaker 4: you dive into him, he's a different, different animal completely
12:05
Speaker 4: than Justin Fields. So it's not like, oh my god,
12:07
Speaker 4: we just shipped Justin Fields off and we're drafting the
12:09
Speaker 4: exact same guy. That would be Jayden Daniels, but not
12:12
Speaker 4: Kill Williams. Kate Williams's home own type of thing. So
12:16
Speaker 4: as if I were in the front office as bears,
12:17
Speaker 4: that would be the easiest one to sell. And I
12:20
Speaker 4: totally get it because he has that megastar potential, like
12:22
Speaker 4: I think, I think both of these guys do, but
12:24
Speaker 4: Williams does do.
12:25
Speaker 1: Of course, Well, I guess that becomes the conversation, right
12:29
Speaker 1: if you are in the front office, and look, you
12:31
Speaker 1: come from a football family. You know these conversations as
12:35
Speaker 1: intimately as anybody if you're the coach, if you're in
12:40
Speaker 1: the front office, there's no upside in drafting Drake may like.
12:47
Speaker 1: The difference between them, as you say, is either minuscule
12:53
Speaker 1: or the difference between them is a is an ocean
12:57
Speaker 1: wide golf and in either case you need to take
13:02
Speaker 1: the Caleb Williams pick, because that is the one where
13:07
Speaker 1: it is it is unreproachable, Like you will not get
13:11
Speaker 1: fired for taking Caleb Williams. In two years he will
13:15
Speaker 1: be a doubt.
13:16
Speaker 4: And yeah, there's also just the optics of it, of
13:19
Speaker 4: what you sell. If the entire contingent of the Bears
13:22
Speaker 4: went to Drake Mason pro Day and Keenan Allen's there
13:25
Speaker 4: high five from everything, everyone goes God, check out May
13:29
Speaker 4: because as of December, it was not a big golf
13:33
Speaker 4: between these two. There are several people that had made
13:37
Speaker 4: just the same There's an article written by Charles Robinson,
13:40
Speaker 4: my peer at Yahoo I should say peer, but my
13:43
Speaker 4: coworker at Yahoo, and he in that article they were saying,
13:47
Speaker 4: this is going to be a tight battle through April.
13:49
Speaker 4: But also it's just what's told and what's the optics
13:52
Speaker 4: of all of it. So I'm saying, if they send
13:53
Speaker 4: that entire continuent to Jane Daniels, everyone will go, man, yeah,
13:56
Speaker 4: the Heisman Trophy winner, totally get it. Totally get it
13:59
Speaker 4: because we've seen the exact same thing happen with Bryce Young,
14:02
Speaker 4: who I'm still stunned was the number one pick. We've
14:05
Speaker 4: seen the entire thing happen with the Steelers going like, hey,
14:08
Speaker 4: we're winding and dining three different quarterbacks. Desmond Ritter, Sam Howe,
14:11
Speaker 4: Kenny Pickett's our guy. We love him because he's right
14:13
Speaker 4: next door and never goes. Of course, Kenny Pickett's the
14:15
Speaker 4: first guy taken. No one remembers that that was a
14:17
Speaker 4: battle for number two pick year before that, Zack Wilson.
14:20
Speaker 4: It was a type battle between three different guys and
14:22
Speaker 4: all a sudden Zack Wilson by December. Joe Douglas's tone
14:25
Speaker 4: everyone that Zack Wilson's O their guy never goes. Well,
14:26
Speaker 4: of course, Zack Wilson's the second best guy. It's kind
14:29
Speaker 4: of just it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as what
14:32
Speaker 4: you sell. But I do say it's like yes going in.
14:35
Speaker 4: I mean, the narrative during the season after a Notre
14:39
Speaker 4: Dame game was, oh my god, is this guy give
14:41
Speaker 4: me a franchise quarterback? What if Bear's contingents like, yeah,
14:44
Speaker 4: keep piping that up. We don't like him, Actually, we
14:46
Speaker 4: don't like him. That's kind of just how the game
14:48
Speaker 4: kind of works beyond the scenes, too. So that's just
14:52
Speaker 4: kind of my other way to look at this is
14:53
Speaker 4: that if they sent the whole contingents that were pro
14:55
Speaker 4: Day and May did what he did, the people that
14:58
Speaker 4: were like many people will go, oh, yeah, obviously he's
15:00
Speaker 4: been the guy size. That's what Ryan Poles likes. It's
15:03
Speaker 4: just kind of what you're going to argue for that.
15:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, for Nate, Yeah, go ahead.
15:07
Speaker 3: So I'll say Nate's not one of these people in
15:10
Speaker 3: media that you know, I've seen your stuff for the years.
15:12
Speaker 3: You don't just put stuff out there because you are,
15:15
Speaker 3: you know, friends with the agents of these guys. And no,
15:19
Speaker 3: even go back to your draft last year, you were
15:22
Speaker 3: one of the few people like me who had CJ
15:24
Speaker 3: at one and then Richardson at number two or at
15:28
Speaker 3: some point you flip flopped these guys.
15:29
Speaker 2: There was never a time where I.
15:31
Speaker 3: Think most people were just it felt like a mean
15:33
Speaker 3: it were just lying where they were like, no, Bryce
15:35
Speaker 3: Sung is the slam dunk number one.
15:37
Speaker 2: Guy, he should be the number one pick.
15:39
Speaker 3: Where I think a lot of people shrouded the line
15:41
Speaker 3: where I was the extreme where I was like, no,
15:43
Speaker 3: brace Shuk's the second round pick, and I took tons
15:46
Speaker 3: of heat for that, which I'm sure you're dealing with
15:48
Speaker 3: the same thing now with Drake May, which is like
15:51
Speaker 3: fans of these schools, So you know guys who are
15:53
Speaker 3: diehard fans of Williams, they're going to be in your mentions,
15:56
Speaker 3: They're going to be commenting on anything you post, which
15:59
Speaker 3: I dealt with with Alabama people. With Bryce Hung You're
16:01
Speaker 3: just like, you don't know ball, you don't watch college football,
16:04
Speaker 3: and it's like I don't, but I watch film.
16:06
Speaker 2: I think anyone scouting these guys watch film.
16:08
Speaker 3: So it is interesting hearing your take because you've had
16:10
Speaker 3: the time to go through it all and you're still
16:12
Speaker 3: dug in on Drake May, which I can't fault you
16:15
Speaker 3: for it, like you are seeing something you believe in
16:17
Speaker 3: him in a way that like you said, the difference
16:20
Speaker 3: is in that.
16:20
Speaker 2: Big between him and Williams. It's just your preference.
16:23
Speaker 3: If you were in the spot and the owner said
16:24
Speaker 3: to you, who do you prefer here and is your
16:27
Speaker 3: job as a scout, you would say it's one A,
16:29
Speaker 3: one B.
16:30
Speaker 2: But I do have Drake as one A.
16:32
Speaker 3: Now, these kind of moments are career builders where if
16:35
Speaker 3: you hit that right and they take the other way,
16:37
Speaker 3: that GM gets fired. You could be the next guy
16:40
Speaker 3: in line to take his job because you were right
16:42
Speaker 3: on that one A one day position, or you hit
16:44
Speaker 3: this wrong and he's gonna be.
16:46
Speaker 2: Side eying you.
16:46
Speaker 3: Or you have to leave that organization because in ten
16:48
Speaker 3: years you're gonna be in the same exact spot. So
16:51
Speaker 3: what you're doing here it is bold in NFL terms,
16:54
Speaker 3: where someone like me, I'm doing the coward away. I
16:57
Speaker 3: have Daniels just slightly ahead of May, like you just said,
17:01
Speaker 3: my one A, one B for them. I disrespect that. Daniels. Again,
17:05
Speaker 3: this is not a knock on Drake Man. I'm sure
17:07
Speaker 3: you've heard this from scouts. Apparently he is not the
17:10
Speaker 3: most coachable guy in all football, right like he he Again,
17:14
Speaker 3: I'm not saying he's not coachable, but what I've heard
17:17
Speaker 3: from Daniels and Daniels is incredibly well at being coached,
17:20
Speaker 3: where a coach could tell him to do something and
17:22
Speaker 3: he'll correct that. He'll work on his footwork, He'll work
17:24
Speaker 3: on his arm throwing. May is going to have to
17:27
Speaker 3: work on his footwork and his throwing style. Have you
17:29
Speaker 3: thought about all that when you're at value with these quarterbacks?
17:31
Speaker 3: Are you just like his talent levels so high? I
17:34
Speaker 3: don't really care about that stuff. He'll be able to coach,
17:36
Speaker 3: you know, be coach how to use his feet and
17:37
Speaker 3: how to work on his arm angle.
17:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:39
Speaker 4: Well first the first thing he said is like, yeah,
17:41
Speaker 4: I tryly. I try to be completely independent of listening
17:46
Speaker 4: to anybody. And I think that's what it's a fallacy
17:48
Speaker 4: that will fall allow us fall into. And what I've
17:50
Speaker 4: seen as I joined media, it's like, just stick with
17:52
Speaker 4: your guns, just stick with your opinion, just because other
17:54
Speaker 4: people like guys. Everyone like if you go into scouting room,
17:56
Speaker 4: there's nine different opinions on a guy. Yeah, there's nine
17:58
Speaker 4: different reports. Do you think there's a consensus. There's never one.
18:01
Speaker 4: I've seen some of most outlandish grades on guys, and
18:03
Speaker 4: that would just be like you people in the met
18:05
Speaker 4: like would just lose their minds. It's like these are
18:07
Speaker 4: NFL teams that come up with this. But I think
18:10
Speaker 4: the last year was a good learning lesson because I
18:12
Speaker 4: had people going like, well you liked young, and I go, well,
18:15
Speaker 4: I wasn't killing them, but it was like it was
18:16
Speaker 4: pretty obvious who I preferred. I was saying like, yeah,
18:19
Speaker 4: I wouldn't do it, but I guess if you want
18:21
Speaker 4: this is what you prefer. Because again this is the
18:24
Speaker 4: whole argument sense where people are bringing up, say the
18:27
Speaker 4: S two tests, are saying what he was accomplishing post
18:31
Speaker 4: after the Steph Curry comparisons and all that, those types
18:33
Speaker 4: of things, And the number one thing that was sto
18:37
Speaker 4: out to me was the size outlier. And they're saying
18:40
Speaker 4: that the risk of taking a legit like literal historical
18:44
Speaker 4: size out outlier not just in the first round, but
18:47
Speaker 4: number one overall and trading up for them, Like, to me,
18:50
Speaker 4: that was just like, no frickin way would I ever
18:52
Speaker 4: do that in a million years.
18:52
Speaker 2: I'd stroud.
18:53
Speaker 4: Even to me, even if you don't love them, it's like,
18:55
Speaker 4: there's that's the safe one. But it was just to me,
18:57
Speaker 4: he was the safe one with the upside. It was
19:00
Speaker 4: that's to me, it was an easy number one pick
19:02
Speaker 4: to take. And then Richardson was the home run swing,
19:04
Speaker 4: but that had a lot of other stuff underneath. So
19:06
Speaker 4: to me it was like, those are what flavor you want,
19:08
Speaker 4: not the historical outlier. And I think when I've gone
19:11
Speaker 4: to this year and watching May is he does the
19:15
Speaker 4: things that the good ones do and the stuff that's
19:18
Speaker 4: hard to teach. And I know what you're saying with
19:19
Speaker 4: the coachability stuff, that's also a kind of who watches
19:22
Speaker 4: the Watchman situation? For me is who who? Some of
19:26
Speaker 4: these coaches are terrible sources. Some of these scouts are
19:28
Speaker 4: terrible sources. And I that's why I come away when
19:30
Speaker 4: I watch and this it's hard, but it's hard because
19:33
Speaker 4: but then when I watch him on film, I see
19:35
Speaker 4: him handling protections from an offense that was giving him
19:39
Speaker 4: no help, never having to look to sideline for help.
19:42
Speaker 4: He was handling it all on his own, not that
19:43
Speaker 4: it was the most complicated offense given no help as
19:46
Speaker 4: far as surroundings and answers and everything. I wouldn't be
19:48
Speaker 4: coachable too if I thought my offer my coaches were idiots,
19:52
Speaker 4: you know, like that, Like that's that's the other side
19:54
Speaker 4: of this coin, you know, I wouldn't say Phil long ago,
19:55
Speaker 4: two years ago. I think he's fine, not just because
19:57
Speaker 4: he's Wisconsin's off its corridor now, but it's also but
20:00
Speaker 4: this year's OC it's kind of like this, I know,
20:03
Speaker 4: you kind of know it when you see it. What's
20:04
Speaker 4: a good situation? What's a bad situation? So for me,
20:07
Speaker 4: I'm watching May. Is he competitive? Is he tough? I've
20:11
Speaker 4: been around quarterbacks that some people call moody. Even ones
20:15
Speaker 4: that we would consider really nice guys are some of
20:17
Speaker 4: the most moody guys you've ever been around, because they're
20:19
Speaker 4: psycho competitive. They can't they have no time for us
20:22
Speaker 4: mortals kind of thing, you know, So I really that's
20:27
Speaker 4: what Again, this is the optimist view of it. But
20:29
Speaker 4: the game that always sticks out to me is Nancy
20:31
Speaker 4: State game where they're getting their asses kicked. North Carolina
20:34
Speaker 4: is and he runs into touchdown and I think it
20:37
Speaker 4: gets called back, and I really have told a story twice,
20:40
Speaker 4: so I should really check my facts here, But he
20:42
Speaker 4: runs in for a touchdown and I think it gets
20:44
Speaker 4: called back, and he freaking like basically you can see
20:46
Speaker 4: him get ticked off, and on the very next play,
20:49
Speaker 4: like you can see him kind of spin the ball
20:50
Speaker 4: and kind of just like like like kind of like
20:53
Speaker 4: channel and then the very next play he throws a
20:55
Speaker 4: freaking heat seeking missile like just through two guys and
20:58
Speaker 4: goes for a touchdown. But it was like he channeled
20:59
Speaker 4: that competitiveness. And again this is I see the good
21:03
Speaker 4: guys do this. The good quarterbacks know how to channel
21:06
Speaker 4: that and put the fricking team on their back. And
21:08
Speaker 4: again that's why I think Caleb and may do that
21:11
Speaker 4: is because I've seen Caleb in different ways, but they
21:14
Speaker 4: put over and over the Duke game and all that.
21:16
Speaker 4: So like when I watch him, yes, I'm being glass
21:19
Speaker 4: half full with a lot of stuff, but I think
21:20
Speaker 4: because of the athleticism, because of his work ethic that
21:22
Speaker 4: I know about, because of his competitive nature, I think
21:25
Speaker 4: he's going to work at those little blumshoes because I've
21:27
Speaker 4: already seen improvement and I think it's just going to
21:29
Speaker 4: keep going. I'm not saying disco Stu, you know, straight
21:31
Speaker 4: always going to just go out, but I do think
21:33
Speaker 4: he has more likelihood to improve. There's some kind of
21:37
Speaker 4: NBA thinking here. You know, it was kind of like
21:39
Speaker 4: you know, that projection of some guys I always come
21:41
Speaker 4: to back to, like Zach Levine or somebody like that.
21:44
Speaker 4: It's like they have athleticism and competitiveness that gives them
21:47
Speaker 4: more path to growth than the guy that's you know,
21:50
Speaker 4: maxed out or totally polished, like a Jane Daniels who's
21:53
Speaker 4: been started fifty something games. Like, yes, he's athletic, but
21:56
Speaker 4: I don't know mechanically if I can fix anything. He's
21:59
Speaker 4: this is him, like, this is what I'm drafting.
22:01
Speaker 1: Can you name the fastest growing ticketing app in the
22:04
Speaker 1: United States?
22:05
Speaker 2: Game Time?
22:06
Speaker 1: That's right, it's game Time. I love game Time for
22:09
Speaker 1: two reasons. First, they still sponsor their show. Second, I
22:12
Speaker 1: actually use game Time all the time. They have amazing
22:15
Speaker 1: last minute deals on pro and college sports. Speaking of which,
22:20
Speaker 1: I'm opening the game Time app right now from my
22:23
Speaker 1: hotel here in Colorado. Look at this, I can see
22:28
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22:34
Speaker 1: the Timberwolves, the best team in the West. No matter
22:37
Speaker 1: where you live, download the game Time app, get out
22:39
Speaker 1: have some fun this week. You deserve it. You can
22:42
Speaker 1: redeem code favorites for twenty dollars off your first purchase.
22:44
Speaker 1: Terms apply again. Just download the game Time app and
22:47
Speaker 1: use code favorites for twenty dollars off your first purchase.
22:50
Speaker 1: Last minute tickets loose prices guarantee. There are stats and
22:57
Speaker 1: trends for quarterbacks in the NFL that tell you the
23:02
Speaker 1: more games they've started in college, the more successful they're
23:06
Speaker 1: going to be when they get to the NFL, and
23:08
Speaker 1: vice versa. The fewer games they've started. When they're getting
23:11
Speaker 1: drafted on upside and potential, the less of a chance
23:16
Speaker 1: they have of succeeding a greater measure when they get
23:20
Speaker 1: to the NFL. I mean, you've seen those you've seen
23:22
Speaker 1: those numbers.
23:23
Speaker 4: Well, so now it's kind of looking at age like
23:26
Speaker 4: a younger the younger you get into the league, because
23:29
Speaker 4: it's kind of I know, the Bill, old Bill Parcells
23:31
Speaker 4: thinking start this many games, accuracy, all that kind of stuff.
23:34
Speaker 4: Now to me, it's more how early you start and
23:38
Speaker 4: how early you entered the league. So it's great that
23:41
Speaker 4: a Daniels May or Williams Stale started right away. May
23:44
Speaker 4: was playing as a freshman. Then they read shirt them,
23:46
Speaker 4: they had howl, YadA YadA. But that's a good sign.
23:49
Speaker 4: And then if you're entering the league, then it's we
23:51
Speaker 4: get our hands on you earlier. As far as the NFL,
23:54
Speaker 4: we're getting you at twenty one years old as opposed
23:56
Speaker 4: to twenty three or twenty four maybe back in the day,
23:59
Speaker 4: give or a take, Is that good or bad? That's
24:01
Speaker 4: a whole nother conversation of a developmental plan and reps
24:05
Speaker 4: and all that kind of stuff. But the other stats
24:09
Speaker 4: some people have taken it a little too far. I've
24:10
Speaker 4: noticed on Twitter this spring, But stuff like pressure to
24:13
Speaker 4: sack rate is a very sticky rate as far as
24:16
Speaker 4: how how many times quarterback it's pressure, how many turns
24:18
Speaker 4: in sack because that shows off creativity. I think size, athleticism,
24:22
Speaker 4: pocket movement, all those types of things may stands. They
24:25
Speaker 4: stand well above the threshold where you're concerned. I don't
24:28
Speaker 4: know if that makes sense. They're good him and Williams
24:30
Speaker 4: are fine, while Daniels is extremely concerning as because that
24:35
Speaker 4: stays sticky. That that's kind of like a people we're
24:38
Speaker 4: all learning, I think all of us at the same time,
24:40
Speaker 4: teams and people online and people like myself, like we're
24:44
Speaker 4: just figuring out what are the sticky stats. Everyone's getting
24:46
Speaker 4: more and more data, but it's like this is what
24:48
Speaker 4: baseball went through. It's like, okay, what is relevant. But
24:50
Speaker 4: I think stuff like that is showing that these guys
24:54
Speaker 4: are passing the thresholds of the good quarterback here.
24:57
Speaker 1: So right now, if you were a handicap top three picks,
25:03
Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying, Caleb, Jaden Daniels, Drake,
25:08
Speaker 1: may you have Jaden Daniels. You just mentioned a little
25:13
Speaker 1: bit of the logic. Why, But I want you to
25:14
Speaker 1: dig in a little bit deeper. You have Jaden Daniels
25:17
Speaker 1: as a as the twentieth overall prospected.
25:23
Speaker 4: To explain yourself, I will do it, man, get into
25:28
Speaker 4: it now.
25:29
Speaker 1: Uh.
25:29
Speaker 4: Well, first and foremost, ignore the combine weight with Jane Daniels.
25:32
Speaker 4: We're gonna this whole present presentation is going to be
25:35
Speaker 4: on the assumption that he wastes college weight and not
25:38
Speaker 4: two hundred and ten. He probably took an awesome powers
25:40
Speaker 4: pee after after that that pro day way in. But
25:44
Speaker 4: Daniels to me is first and foremost he's accurate. I'll
25:47
Speaker 4: start with positives before we before we get into the
25:50
Speaker 4: bash fest. Uh, he's accurate. He knows what he's doing. No,
25:55
Speaker 4: that's gonna be great. I think he does like him,
25:56
Speaker 4: so that's why I'm excited to ask him. So he's accurate.
25:59
Speaker 4: He he understands what he's going to be done, what
26:01
Speaker 4: has to be done. As far as offensively, he's going
26:03
Speaker 4: to translate mind wise mentally, I think to the NFL
26:06
Speaker 4: very well because he has so many starts. Just like
26:08
Speaker 4: you were saying, Chad, it's just so much experience different offenses.
26:12
Speaker 4: He kind of he knows the answers. Now the accuracy
26:16
Speaker 4: comes all three levels, which is really nice. He shows
26:18
Speaker 4: we're ball placement if he knows that throw guys open.
26:21
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say he has good or better arm strength,
26:23
Speaker 4: but it's above average. It's above the threshold adequate plus
26:26
Speaker 4: you know what we say, A good debate is who
26:30
Speaker 4: has a stronger arm him or Joe Burrow, which I
26:32
Speaker 4: think would be more of a conversation than people realize.
26:35
Speaker 4: But great athlete, that's another thing. So fast, honestly think
26:40
Speaker 4: that Yeah, faster as he got went along at college,
26:43
Speaker 4: he looks faster than he did at Arizona State. Maybe
26:45
Speaker 4: it's just once again.
26:46
Speaker 2: Set of humidity.
26:47
Speaker 4: It's a it's a it's the it's the humid air said,
26:49
Speaker 4: the dry air that makes you faster. And Louisiana pushing
26:51
Speaker 4: him along it is is just gliding him. Yes, maybe
26:55
Speaker 4: there's something to that, like he just looks faster. I
26:58
Speaker 4: swear maybe the PAC twelve needs better or what used
27:01
Speaker 4: to be the Pac twelve needs better cameras makes me
27:03
Speaker 4: look faster or something like that. But so getting into
27:05
Speaker 4: the negatives with him versus size, and I just have
27:08
Speaker 4: to bring it up because quarterbacks under two oh five
27:11
Speaker 4: and we can get in two ten, but it would
27:12
Speaker 4: say two oh five that Jane Daniels is. There's not
27:15
Speaker 4: a lot of modern quarterbacks that have even started a
27:17
Speaker 4: full season, much less have played a good season, had
27:21
Speaker 4: like a successful above average season since two thousand. It's
27:24
Speaker 4: Kirk Cousins and Jeff Garcia, and that's it. That's like
27:29
Speaker 4: a certain threshold if you just kind of I use
27:32
Speaker 4: adjusted net yards per attempt, but we won't go into it.
27:34
Speaker 4: But above average or better season those are that's it.
27:37
Speaker 4: So just two ound five or below, much less two
27:39
Speaker 4: hundred or below. Then there's quarterbacks.
27:41
Speaker 2: Who get into.
27:43
Speaker 4: When Daniels is, he's a good athlete, he's accurate in
27:46
Speaker 4: all this. He's not a creative player, and he's not
27:49
Speaker 4: a creative thrower. He's very straight lined. He is not
27:53
Speaker 4: a joker. He is not a move in the pocket
27:56
Speaker 4: and throw a sidearm. He does not have that kind
27:58
Speaker 4: of creative tool in his bag that I think Williamson
28:01
Speaker 4: may do. May is extremely creative too, throwing left hand
28:04
Speaker 4: and passes and stuff. I'll just keep praising him. Just
28:06
Speaker 4: no little pod shout of here. But with Daniels, is
28:10
Speaker 4: when he moves off his point. When he's moved off
28:12
Speaker 4: his point in the in the pocket, he's looking to scramble.
28:14
Speaker 2: He's looking to run.
28:15
Speaker 4: His eyes do not look up to make a pass
28:18
Speaker 4: to extend the play. And that is fine if he
28:21
Speaker 4: was younger, if he was bigger, But because of his size,
28:24
Speaker 4: and because I've never i haven't really seen that archetype
28:27
Speaker 4: of player, the one that scrambles so much. I'm trying
28:30
Speaker 4: to find the stats i'm talking here, but he has
28:31
Speaker 4: two hundred fifty eight scrambles in his career, which is
28:33
Speaker 4: his own stratsphere as far as prospects or college football
28:37
Speaker 4: players that have come out. But then also when he
28:40
Speaker 4: gets moved off a spot, nearly fifty percent of those
28:42
Speaker 4: end up as scrambles, which is just absurd, Like usually
28:46
Speaker 4: it's about twenty to thirty percent for guys. So it's
28:49
Speaker 4: just a it's a type of play, it's a play style,
28:51
Speaker 4: the reckless play with his size, his age. Yes, he's accurate.
28:55
Speaker 4: He doesn't really work over the middle though, he doesn't
28:57
Speaker 4: throw with aggression over the middle if it's a high low.
29:00
Speaker 4: He throws a lot of loaves, and which is fine. Again,
29:03
Speaker 4: you can make a living that way. But if you're
29:05
Speaker 4: taking a lot of sacks, if you're playing that other
29:07
Speaker 4: type of style, it's a hard living in the NFL.
29:11
Speaker 4: If you take a sack on first down, second and
29:12
Speaker 4: twenty two six yard games, aren't going to do it.
29:15
Speaker 4: You have to push the ball, and he'll do that
29:17
Speaker 4: on the outside. That works if you have a matchup
29:19
Speaker 4: advantage on the outside weekend week out, which he might
29:22
Speaker 4: not in the NFL.
29:22
Speaker 2: He might.
29:23
Speaker 4: He might get into a Burrow and Bengal situation, but
29:26
Speaker 4: he might not. He might be going to make It's say,
29:29
Speaker 4: What's say Washington, Yeah, he might have Terry McLaurin. Johan
29:32
Speaker 4: Dotson isn't really I don't think going to be Milik
29:34
Speaker 4: neighbors of Brian Thomas. So that is again it's going
29:37
Speaker 4: to be. It's not. He does a lot of things, fine,
29:40
Speaker 4: does a lot of things well, but there's a lot
29:41
Speaker 4: more alarm bells I think with him than I even
29:44
Speaker 4: thought going in this. All all these stats I looked
29:46
Speaker 4: at came from when I was watching him, and I
29:48
Speaker 4: just didn't see the aggression. I didn't see the creativity,
29:50
Speaker 4: even though he is a good athlete. So it's kind
29:52
Speaker 4: of a dichotomy when you watch him a little bit,
29:56
Speaker 4: not just because I just want to say that word.
30:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, my view on him, like I said, Chad, you know,
30:05
Speaker 3: the difference between these guys is very small. My view
30:08
Speaker 3: of it is where were you at as an organization?
30:10
Speaker 3: Because both these guys are different in many ways, But
30:13
Speaker 3: it's all about how you want to go forward because
30:16
Speaker 3: he doesn't going to dictate how you do everything around
30:17
Speaker 3: your organization. Where you know, I view Daniels as turn
30:21
Speaker 3: into a Lamar type where it's like I think he
30:24
Speaker 3: can come in and he can win. Now where if
30:26
Speaker 3: I have the ideal scenario, I would sit in May
30:29
Speaker 3: for a year. I just think going from facing acc
30:32
Speaker 3: defenses to the NFL, the leap is so extreme and
30:36
Speaker 3: it's not the same going from the SEC to the NFL.
30:38
Speaker 2: I mean, it just doesn't.
30:39
Speaker 3: You guys talk all the time that it does help
30:41
Speaker 3: playing the SEC when you go to face the sep
30:43
Speaker 3: of defenses. But I am worried about all this stuff
30:46
Speaker 3: people keep bringing up where it's like, yeah, he is
30:49
Speaker 3: old and he was playing against you know, nineteen year
30:51
Speaker 3: olds and he's twenty three, and it's like that is
30:53
Speaker 3: a big deal, Like he's been around a long time,
30:56
Speaker 3: but he also improved every year, which is also something
30:58
Speaker 3: I do look for where it's like like I I
31:02
Speaker 3: learned greatly from Joe Burrow because I really did think
31:05
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow was just the pieces around him. I did
31:08
Speaker 3: think Joe Burrow was really good, but it was just
31:09
Speaker 3: like he had the greatest lis. That team in LSU
31:13
Speaker 3: was the greatest team ever put together, but you kind
31:15
Speaker 3: of quickly realize, well, it actually was because of Joe.
31:18
Speaker 2: Joe made it all work.
31:20
Speaker 3: And I kind of feel the same here with Daniel
31:21
Speaker 3: where Daniels getting a lot of heat because he has, you know,
31:24
Speaker 3: an incredible offensive line, really good bye receivers, but I
31:27
Speaker 3: think he got that out of them, like a lot
31:29
Speaker 3: of those ball placements. It's it is pretty impressive what
31:32
Speaker 3: he can do. But I think everything Nate just said
31:35
Speaker 3: so true where it's like it's radio ad organization, Like
31:38
Speaker 3: this draft, I think whatever one of these quarterbacks does
31:42
Speaker 3: go to in England, is that such a huge disadvantage
31:45
Speaker 3: compared to a guy that might be going to the
31:46
Speaker 3: Vikings or the Commanders.
31:48
Speaker 2: It's it's literally out of this world.
31:49
Speaker 4: How big of a difference is going to be that's
31:50
Speaker 4: why I don't want to take one, right, I want
31:53
Speaker 4: to pay some move back.
31:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:54
Speaker 4: Just so, Yeah, team building perspective.
31:57
Speaker 3: When I'm when I'm grading these quarterbacks and I put
31:59
Speaker 3: Daniel of May was just this was in February. My
32:02
Speaker 3: biggest thing when I first dived into it was just
32:04
Speaker 3: that May did regress this season. And it is there
32:08
Speaker 3: are factors into that he did have less talent around
32:10
Speaker 3: him in the previous season. There's a lot of stuff
32:12
Speaker 3: that goes into that. But that, to me is that's
32:14
Speaker 3: where a little bit of hesitation came from. Same thing
32:17
Speaker 3: happened with Williams. Like if you watch UFC's tapes this
32:19
Speaker 3: season a fair to the previous year, it's it is.
32:23
Speaker 3: It does worry you, but that's that's football. Like football,
32:26
Speaker 3: guys have peak peak of Valley years. What we're looking
32:29
Speaker 3: for is consistency and and all three of these quarterbacks,
32:32
Speaker 3: I would say, they're all been very consistent.
32:34
Speaker 2: That's why it's like it's whatever whatever flavory of the month.
32:38
Speaker 3: Right, So the Williams debate, I think it was over
32:41
Speaker 3: right once it came out that it's like, Okay, his
32:44
Speaker 3: teammates do like him, he isn't this huge diva. He's
32:47
Speaker 3: not demanding shares of the Chicago ownership. Williams is gonna
32:51
Speaker 3: be number one pick, because that's the question there. It's
32:53
Speaker 3: like we all know the guy's talent. Yeah, but the
32:58
Speaker 3: debate is real at number two. Like I know, Cowherd
33:00
Speaker 3: today came out and said from his sources he heard
33:03
Speaker 3: that it is Daniels going.
33:04
Speaker 2: To number two to Washington.
33:06
Speaker 3: You know, I reached out to a bunch of guys
33:08
Speaker 3: who you know, they're pretty well connected in Washington. Nothing's
33:12
Speaker 3: come out yet, And to me, I don't think they
33:14
Speaker 3: should leak it because they have the power here. If
33:16
Speaker 3: they if they do like Daniels and they know the
33:19
Speaker 3: Vikings or the Patriots, really one may trade to three,
33:24
Speaker 3: like move down and take Daniels or whoever you want
33:26
Speaker 3: to take JJ whoever it is. So yeah, I this
33:31
Speaker 3: this is a tough draft, Chad, because I'm gonna be
33:32
Speaker 3: ask with you.
33:33
Speaker 2: It's it's it's one where I wish I was like
33:35
Speaker 2: Nate here. Nate is dug in.
33:37
Speaker 3: He knows like years from now he'll be able to
33:39
Speaker 3: go back and be like, no, May was my guy.
33:42
Speaker 3: I'm not that committed to Daniels I'm not really stake
33:44
Speaker 3: my career on Daniels. The one guy that I will
33:48
Speaker 3: say that's moved up my draft board way more than
33:51
Speaker 3: I thought he would be. Not I want to hear
33:53
Speaker 3: a Nate's view on him is Pennix like, coming out,
33:56
Speaker 3: this dude is injury prone, he's older, Seeing like Washington
34:01
Speaker 3: had all these great players around him, no wonder he
34:03
Speaker 3: would be a top pick.
34:04
Speaker 2: I talk to a lot of scouts.
34:06
Speaker 3: They think he's gonna be in the middle of the
34:07
Speaker 3: first round pick now you have him right out as such,
34:09
Speaker 3: or it's just just February into April hype we're getting
34:13
Speaker 3: here with the quarterback position I have.
34:15
Speaker 4: I've heard like all over the place with him. I
34:19
Speaker 4: my grade right now is like late second, early third
34:21
Speaker 4: on him. Some of that's from age and the injury stuff. Yeah,
34:25
Speaker 4: And I think my number one what I love about
34:28
Speaker 4: him is he pushes the ball. I'm always gonna like
34:29
Speaker 4: guys that push the ball because that's so much harder
34:31
Speaker 4: to get a guy to do than the other way around.
34:34
Speaker 4: I like it is like I've been I was around
34:37
Speaker 4: Derek Carr and it scarred me. Man like it is,
34:40
Speaker 4: so I've just like just being you have to have
34:43
Speaker 4: that kind of trained aggression and it just go once
34:45
Speaker 4: in a while they make a mistake and you go, hey,
34:47
Speaker 4: brain back and just take the check down. There so
34:49
Speaker 4: much better to have that. So Penix does that, and
34:51
Speaker 4: Pennix will push the ball. He'll doesn't take sacks, finds
34:55
Speaker 4: way to get rid of the ball like he doesn't.
34:57
Speaker 4: He'll if he's pressure, he gets rid of the ball.
34:59
Speaker 4: The thing for me is that's a good and bad thing.
35:02
Speaker 4: Sometimes you want him extending a little bit more. It's
35:05
Speaker 4: very robotic. It's very like, yes, move one place in
35:08
Speaker 4: the pocket, one step in the pocket, the guy's not there,
35:10
Speaker 4: I'll give rid the ball as opposed to maybe extend,
35:12
Speaker 4: maybe throw a little sidearm. And why I keep bringing
35:14
Speaker 4: this up is because that's a prerequisite in the NFL
35:17
Speaker 4: to be a not just a replacement level starter, a
35:20
Speaker 4: spots starter type, to be a legit good top twelve
35:23
Speaker 4: ish guy, top tennish guy, Like these are the things
35:26
Speaker 4: you kind of need. You need that throw creativity, you
35:28
Speaker 4: need to kind of extend to make a throw to
35:30
Speaker 4: because now everything's gonna be great in the NFL.
35:33
Speaker 1: Too.
35:33
Speaker 4: Offensive linemen are gonna be out. You're on your rookie
35:35
Speaker 4: undrafted tight end, your offensive coordinator sucks, like you know,
35:39
Speaker 4: like all this stuff happens, so you just have to
35:41
Speaker 4: make it work. And so that's where I always waited
35:43
Speaker 4: that Penix, to me, kind of needs a lot to operate.
35:45
Speaker 4: If everything's fine, he has the pre snapper read right,
35:49
Speaker 4: nobody falls down. Offensive line isn't a beat machine, just
35:54
Speaker 4: a gun at gatlet gun out there. But to me,
35:57
Speaker 4: it's not the creativity. He needs a bigger platform to
36:00
Speaker 4: throw from. I've kind of kind of started comparing him
36:03
Speaker 4: to like a diet coke Byron Left, which with a better,
36:06
Speaker 4: better athlete.
36:08
Speaker 2: Teddy Bridgewater comparisons.
36:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's another good one. Yeah, that's yeah, yeah, where
36:12
Speaker 4: they just need to they need a platform. And because
36:15
Speaker 4: they're not going to like throw side or anything. Even
36:17
Speaker 4: though Penix has that funky thrown style, it's the same
36:19
Speaker 4: every time. So he needs that. He needs that launch
36:22
Speaker 4: you know, that launch pad to throw from. Again, that's hard,
36:25
Speaker 4: that's really hard in the NFL to get that all
36:28
Speaker 4: the time. Goes to the Eagles, hell yeah, you know,
36:30
Speaker 4: like he get that all the time, Like he goes
36:32
Speaker 4: to a great offensive line. Twenty teams don't have good
36:35
Speaker 4: offensive line.
36:36
Speaker 2: So I I like.
36:37
Speaker 4: Him like i've liked him, hated him, I should say
36:40
Speaker 4: hate him, can't wait way down on him, kind of
36:42
Speaker 4: hipster like. And then I've kind of come back up
36:45
Speaker 4: a little bit on him, and I've kind of I've
36:47
Speaker 4: settled into that high high end backup would be a
36:51
Speaker 4: nice starter, like a good middle tier starter type, because
36:54
Speaker 4: I just think some of the there are some ceiling
36:56
Speaker 4: limitations with him, even if he's you know, because of
36:59
Speaker 4: the odaginal all that stuff.
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38:18
Speaker 1: you mentioned there's a trend right now. You want guys
38:22
Speaker 1: who've started a lot of games who aren't too old yet.
38:27
Speaker 1: One guy on that list, JJ McCarthy. Right, we haven't
38:31
Speaker 1: even talked about right, So give me your take. And
38:36
Speaker 1: when you do this, there is a bet on the
38:39
Speaker 1: board minus two hundred over four and a half quarterbacks
38:43
Speaker 1: taken in the first round. We expect JJ McCarthy to
38:46
Speaker 1: be one of them. He has not come up in
38:47
Speaker 1: this conversation despite hitting that threading that needle. Of lots
38:51
Speaker 1: of starts, young guy, Nate your take on JJ McCarthy.
38:57
Speaker 4: Lots of starts, young guy, not a lot of throws
38:59
Speaker 4: when you watch them. But he took forever for me
39:02
Speaker 4: to finally like, like have my opinion because it took
39:05
Speaker 4: me forever to watch every game to get enough where
39:07
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, okay, okay, I got you.
39:11
Speaker 2: Likes him way more.
39:12
Speaker 4: Than I thought I would going in, but still not
39:15
Speaker 4: all the way there where I was like, yeah, top ten,
39:16
Speaker 4: pick hell yeah, No, I was even saying it's rich
39:19
Speaker 4: to go top twenty. And I'm still there. But I've understand,
39:24
Speaker 4: I understand, and I think a lot of people have
39:25
Speaker 4: come to the same conclusion here. It's like the Shanahan
39:27
Speaker 4: guys are going to freaking love this guy, Like he
39:29
Speaker 4: just does what they like. He rockets the ball over
39:32
Speaker 4: the middle. He throws well over on the move, but
39:35
Speaker 4: he has a loose arm. He's a pretty good athlete,
39:38
Speaker 4: kind of getting overhyped, a little bit of an athlete.
39:39
Speaker 4: I don't believe his weight either, even though I think
39:43
Speaker 4: his frame to grow. And he's a little younger than Daniels,
39:45
Speaker 4: so I will give him the benefit of death that
39:46
Speaker 4: you can put on a little bit of weight, but
39:48
Speaker 4: all that size concerned stuff bringing it up with him
39:50
Speaker 4: that I did with Daniels because it's only fair. But
39:53
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, you can. There's more room for him
39:56
Speaker 4: for projection because some of the small things you take
39:59
Speaker 4: away from him. I don't want to get into the
40:00
Speaker 4: whole intangible know bs like people meetings and stuff like that.
40:04
Speaker 4: But more what I've seen when I'm watching him is
40:07
Speaker 4: they put a lot on his plate as far as
40:10
Speaker 4: and I know Harbad does this all of his quarterbacks,
40:12
Speaker 4: but kills and checks and different play calls and just
40:16
Speaker 4: a very wordy packages that they have to be aware of.
40:19
Speaker 4: And there's a sequence against Penn State that I've come
40:21
Speaker 4: back to and I've talked about this before on our
40:24
Speaker 4: podcast on the Athletic, but is I watched him backed
40:28
Speaker 4: up against Penn State a game that he only threw
40:30
Speaker 4: the ball like eight times, and crowds go nuts. You
40:33
Speaker 4: can see it on the film, just all going nuts,
40:35
Speaker 4: and he calms killing the play and changing the play.
40:38
Speaker 4: He's communicating to each offensive line and he's signaling snapped
40:41
Speaker 4: the ball handed off and it's just a handoff. It's
40:44
Speaker 4: twenty seconds to film watching. Then the next play does
40:47
Speaker 4: it all again. But he's so calm, And I know
40:49
Speaker 4: I don't want to extrapolate just those plays, but if
40:51
Speaker 4: you watch him there's a lot of that on his film.
40:53
Speaker 4: So I want to bring that up because I'm sure
40:55
Speaker 4: in meetings he rocked. I'm sure quarterback coaches are if
40:58
Speaker 4: they liked him, they're going to love him now because
41:00
Speaker 4: like he probably all that stuff, all the whiteboard stuff,
41:03
Speaker 4: he's going to rock because he already has exposure to that.
41:06
Speaker 4: And so I've so long winded way of me saying
41:10
Speaker 4: I like him, but I you know, top twenty is
41:13
Speaker 4: very rich still to me, and top ten is still
41:15
Speaker 4: rich to me. But I understand if he went too twenties,
41:18
Speaker 4: but he's not going to go in the twenties. He's
41:19
Speaker 4: gonna go well before that. But to me, that's where
41:21
Speaker 4: I was comfortable with him. I have a second round
41:23
Speaker 4: grade on him, inflated half a round. That's late, you know,
41:27
Speaker 4: late first. That's where I'd be comfortable with him. My
41:30
Speaker 4: concerns with him size already brought that up. Can't throw
41:32
Speaker 4: left weirdly, he's got a little trubisky to him anything.
41:36
Speaker 4: Anytime he has to push the ball throwing left, he's
41:38
Speaker 4: like all of his stats just drop off a cliff.
41:41
Speaker 4: So that is something he mechanically he has to fix.
41:43
Speaker 4: It's just a quirk I noticed watching him and that
41:45
Speaker 4: I dove into the stats. I was like, oh, this
41:46
Speaker 4: is a thing. He goes from like sixty percent of
41:49
Speaker 4: the completion percentage throwing right past ten yards, it's forty
41:52
Speaker 4: throwing left. And it's a good sample size too. It's
41:54
Speaker 4: not just a couple of throws, so it's it's a
41:56
Speaker 4: weird thing because he overstrides and all that. He just
41:58
Speaker 4: needs time, he needs a good situation. I wouldn't like
42:01
Speaker 4: him with the Patriots, the Vikings, I could understand because
42:04
Speaker 4: of their surroundings, the timeline around. Totally understand this argument
42:07
Speaker 4: that they want to try and get him. But if
42:09
Speaker 4: they are teams that need a lot of help and
42:12
Speaker 4: we need a guy to be our guy right away
42:14
Speaker 4: and put the team outs back, I have some hesitations
42:17
Speaker 4: with that. Even if I do think he has kind
42:18
Speaker 4: of starter qualities and I.
42:20
Speaker 2: Just want to piggyback off what he's saying.
42:22
Speaker 3: It's he is the classic case chat of a scout
42:25
Speaker 3: darling where he was the top recruit out of high
42:28
Speaker 3: school into college and he went to a college playing
42:31
Speaker 3: in a pro.
42:32
Speaker 2: System, started a ton of games, and won a national championship.
42:36
Speaker 3: One though it's like, yeah, it's all there, people just
42:40
Speaker 3: talking themselves, and then all the scouts I talk to,
42:42
Speaker 3: it's like I'm kind of on the same boat of Native,
42:44
Speaker 3: Like I had a second round grade on him, and
42:46
Speaker 3: I'm being bullied and they're making them a second a
42:48
Speaker 3: mid tier first round pick, where it's like I don't
42:52
Speaker 3: believe it myself, but because there is a cost premium
42:55
Speaker 3: to the quarterback position. I again, it's not because of
42:58
Speaker 3: Jalen Hurts, but Jalen Hurts won the second around. Looking back,
43:01
Speaker 3: he probably shouldn't ended the first round pick. I think
43:03
Speaker 3: that's happened here with JJ where it's like his upside
43:06
Speaker 3: is such they can't let him drop that late into
43:09
Speaker 3: the ecosystems.
43:10
Speaker 4: Changed a little bit. Yeah, how teams valued these guys? Yeah,
43:13
Speaker 4: Eve When people are like, hey, he's only could be
43:15
Speaker 4: the twelfth best quarter people are like, fine, we'll just
43:17
Speaker 4: build up a round up Like it's kind of people
43:21
Speaker 4: are trying to find different ways to win outside just
43:23
Speaker 4: getting it. Oh give me my homes, Oh spend like
43:26
Speaker 4: the Yankees, you know, like you know, they're trying to
43:28
Speaker 4: find their version, and this is kind of the moneyball,
43:31
Speaker 4: I guess is get a cheap Okay, quarterback.
43:34
Speaker 1: When you say JJ McCarthy can't throw left, it's like
43:39
Speaker 1: you're saying he's the Chevy Chase of European vacation. He
43:42
Speaker 1: can't get.
43:43
Speaker 4: Left or Zoolander.
43:46
Speaker 1: See, guys, here's the thing. I'm on a spring break
43:49
Speaker 1: right now, and every time I speak, my kid gives
43:55
Speaker 1: me such a withering look that I have no place
43:58
Speaker 1: to put these dad jokes. And so sadly, you guys
44:02
Speaker 1: have to listen to me make every dad joke I
44:05
Speaker 1: can make. And by the way, I did let the
44:07
Speaker 1: Jeff Garcia moment pass. But I know Matt Mitchell would
44:11
Speaker 1: be remiss if I did not mention the time twenty
44:14
Speaker 1: something years ago when I wrote a feature about Jeff
44:16
Speaker 1: Garcia and spent several days with him in his hometown
44:20
Speaker 1: of Gilroy, California, for ESPN the magazine. All Right, Nate, Yeah,
44:24
Speaker 1: what do you think of that? Right?
44:25
Speaker 4: I was like, it was it was probably the year
44:27
Speaker 4: that I that he passed the threshold.
44:29
Speaker 2: I looked at it.
44:31
Speaker 1: It was two thousand and one. It was two all right,
44:36
Speaker 1: last question, But Nate, before we let you go, we've
44:39
Speaker 1: talked all about the quarterbacks, but it's not just going
44:42
Speaker 1: to be quarterbacks drafted in the first round. Who is
44:44
Speaker 1: the offensive player? Who is the defensive player? We should
44:48
Speaker 1: be thinking about that, We aren't thinking.
44:50
Speaker 4: About cool to go just in the first round, I'd.
44:55
Speaker 1: Say, give me the guys you're just looking at who
44:56
Speaker 1: aren't getting enough attention.
44:58
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
44:59
Speaker 4: In certain often to lineman, there might be nine offensive
45:03
Speaker 4: linement going in the first round. It's gonna be a
45:05
Speaker 4: heavy o ligne draft.
45:06
Speaker 2: There's gonna be a lot.
45:07
Speaker 4: Of fans faking and clapping like they know who just
45:10
Speaker 4: got drafted, and going nuts, you know, like they showed
45:13
Speaker 4: the little pocket of fans each time. So yeah, any
45:16
Speaker 4: offensive linement insert there, I would say the one. Let's
45:20
Speaker 4: go with Penix's teammate, Troy Fittanu. He is a left tackle,
45:25
Speaker 4: but he could probably, I legit think he could play
45:27
Speaker 4: all five spots on the offensive line. He's he's just
45:31
Speaker 4: a technician, much better athlete than he got credit for,
45:34
Speaker 4: which he showed at the combine, longer arms he got
45:37
Speaker 4: credit for. He's a Vegas guy as well, so I
45:39
Speaker 4: gotta give that a shout out. But yeah, he's one
45:41
Speaker 4: guy and really just I would say another offensive line
45:44
Speaker 4: was Christian Haynes from Yukon. I've been kind of like
45:47
Speaker 4: it bang beating his drum a little bit. But yeah,
45:49
Speaker 4: if we want to go skill position, let's go maybe
45:54
Speaker 4: sneak in the first round. Adie Mitchell, I think for
45:56
Speaker 4: sure he's a first rounder at this point if he
45:58
Speaker 4: passed the character stuff from Texas. But a fan of
46:01
Speaker 4: his little consistent stat profile a little concerning, but he
46:06
Speaker 4: moves and does things that number one guys do, and
46:09
Speaker 4: that is sometimes worth a bet. If you're like the Chiefs,
46:12
Speaker 4: we're the Bills, and you need a guy and you
46:14
Speaker 4: don't usually get a chance of these types of guys.
46:16
Speaker 4: He's the type of guy that can maybe stake defense. Oh,
46:20
Speaker 4: Cooper dejan just tested Quinnon Mitchell. The Cats out the
46:23
Speaker 4: bag about him, so I can't really bring him up.
46:26
Speaker 1: Oh.
46:26
Speaker 4: Michael Hall, defensive tackle Ohio State, been banging his drama
46:30
Speaker 4: a little bit. He's they State had so many defensi alignments,
46:33
Speaker 4: so they rotated a bunch, So he's kind of like
46:35
Speaker 4: a He's very young. I think he's only twenty at
46:36
Speaker 4: this point. We'll turn twenty one just before the season.
46:39
Speaker 4: Kind of a small set. I'm extrapolating a lot here,
46:41
Speaker 4: but a small sample sized Wonder tested really well, does
46:45
Speaker 4: a lot of things that I like, gap shooting, kind
46:47
Speaker 4: of three tech. So he's a guy to watch out.
46:49
Speaker 4: Mike higher than I think people are considering right now.
46:51
Speaker 4: I was pretty high on my big board, but I
46:53
Speaker 4: think the secrets out on him too. Really sexy, right
46:57
Speaker 4: Gambling show talks, some defensive line talk, some offensive guards
47:00
Speaker 4: from you.
47:00
Speaker 1: I can't wait. I can't wait for people to freak
47:02
Speaker 1: out when the Chargers take Joe all with the top
47:05
Speaker 1: five picks.
47:06
Speaker 4: You hear them triggering the news all the Chargers coaches
47:09
Speaker 4: one after another, going we value offensive line. They're like
47:12
Speaker 4: trying to like bracing the fan base, Like.
47:15
Speaker 1: We're telling you guys, everybody know, do not get too excited.
47:19
Speaker 1: That'll be the classic harrorball pick. Like he's just up there,
47:23
Speaker 1: grit his teeth, doesn't want to please anybody that's going
47:26
Speaker 1: to make this pick. Screw everybody else.
47:29
Speaker 4: Yep, yep, I know. I think the fools are the
47:32
Speaker 4: people thinking they who go brock Bauers or like or
47:35
Speaker 4: dude's a or something like that, who are awesome. But no,
47:37
Speaker 4: it's look at every Harbaugh team since the Golf War
47:42
Speaker 4: it's been just like just freaking line play and running
47:45
Speaker 4: the freaking ball.
47:46
Speaker 2: That's what they do.
47:47
Speaker 4: So he's going to get an offensivelignment, all right.
47:50
Speaker 1: Nate Tice The Athletic Football Show, thank you for joining
47:55
Speaker 1: our podcast Fantastic stuff. As always, your takes on the
48:00
Speaker 1: draft will go down in history one way or the other.
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