Latest / North Meets South Web Podcast / Liquid glass, video thumbnails, and children growing up

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Liquid glass, video thumbnails, and children growing up · North Meets South Web Podcast

• 0:00
  Hi. I'm Michael Dyrynda.
• 0:02
  And I'm Jake Bennett.
• 0:03
  And welcome to Episode 177 of the North Meet South Web Podcast. [upbeat music]
• 0:09
  -Nailed it. Got it. Nice work. All right. -Perfection.
• 0:11
  From now on, we have it. Is it, is that on Riverside, or are you playing that
• 0:15
  -through your special controller? -No. Yeah. No. That's coming through the,
• 0:19
  the RODECaster.
• 0:21
  -Okay. Yep. -Yep. So it's all-
• 0:23
  -So glad you're using that -... all one channel for you. [laughs]
• 0:26
  It is. It sounds great. Yeah. I'm loving it.
• 0:28
  -Excellent. Excellent. -It sounds really nice. Nice job.
• 0:30
  Hey, um,
• 0:32
  boy, I've got a lot of stuff written down to talk about. Before our show-
• 0:34
  -You do -... started, I was like, "Oh, man, what
• 0:37
  are we gonna talk about?" And then I had a bunch of things to talk about. I think
• 0:40
  this little power nap helped me out. I was, uh...
• 0:44
  Dude, it has been a busy last couple days, and so-
• 0:48
  -Mm-hmm -... my son was like, "Dad, will you sit
• 0:49
  with me?" 'Cause he really likes it when I sit with him, and I have not been able to
• 0:52
  sit with him the last couple nights. And so tonight, I was like, "Yeah. I'll sit
• 0:55
  with you for a few minutes."
• 0:56
  Immediately fell asleep. Just lights out, man. Lights out. And so I woke up, and it
• 1:02
  was like 10:03, and I'm like, "Oh, man. We gotta, we gotta get the podcast in here,"
• 1:06
  -so... -Yeah. Yeah. That was-
• 1:07
  -Anyway -... that's the same with, with me and Eli.
• 1:09
  Like, I, I will do his bedtime every night, so I read and I sing, and then-
• 1:13
  -Mm-hmm -... after that, you know, lately, he's
• 1:15
  like, "Dad, stay with me for a bit." So I will stay until Ray comes in 'cause he'll
• 1:19
  put Liv down and, yeah, it's just between when I finish singing and when Ray comes
• 1:24
  in, I don't know what happens, but I'm usually being jabbed in the leg to wake
• 1:29
  -up. [laughs] -[laughs]
• 1:33
  That's hilarious. Yeah, man. I mean, you know, it's like, hey, could be worse. I'm,
• 1:37
  I'm thankful that he still wants to sit with me, so it's like, you know, some
• 1:40
  -nights- -Yeah
• 1:40
  ... it's like, oh, like, do I have to do this? And it's like-
• 1:43
  -Mm-hmm -... but then I'm remembering, like, yeah,
• 1:45
  this is not the case for any of my kids anymore. Nobody's asking me to sit with
• 1:48
  them, so I'm just gonna enjoy it and take it, you know-
• 1:50
  -Mm-hmm -... take it where I can get it, sort of
• 1:52
  -deal. So, anyway. Yeah. It's good. -Sure.
• 1:53
  It's good.
• 1:55
  Well, um, let's jump in real quick to Liquid Glass. Have you seen Apple's new
• 2:01
  design thing that they've come out with? Have you seen this?
• 2:04
  I don't know. Look, the reason, the reason I own an iPhone is because Apple is,
• 2:11
  like, a multi-trillion dollar company with all of these designers-
• 2:14
  -Yep, yep -... and I just want them to design me the
• 2:16
  interface, and then that's the interface. I don't wanna customize it. I don't want a
• 2:20
  -widget. -Yeah.
• 2:20
  -I don't want different size icons. -Okay, okay.
• 2:22
  I don't want different col-... Like, I... You design it, and I'll use it. And if I
• 2:26
  -don't like it, like- -Mm-hmm.
• 2:27
  And this is the thing. "Oh, why can't we customize our phones?" You, you totally
• 2:30
  can. Go and customize your Android. Leave the iPhone alone.
• 2:33
  Absolutely.
• 2:34
  -Dude, I- -I didn't get-
• 2:35
  -You know what? -I didn't get the iPhone-
• 2:37
  -I can- -... because it was customizable. I got it
• 2:39
  -because- -I can-
• 2:39
  ... it looked good as it was.
• 2:42
  I can appreciate that perspective, actually. I really can. And it's, um...
• 2:46
  You know, you sound like my dad
• 2:48
  back when I was growing up [laughs] and we had a Windows XP computer, and anytime I
• 2:54
  would change anything, he would get somebody to say, "Do not change the
• 2:58
  -wallpaper." -Yeah.
• 2:59
  -Do not- -Yeah
• 3:00
  -... change the cursor. -Yeah.
• 3:01
  -Do not change the icons. -[laughs]
• 3:03
  Just leave it the same, and we've arrived-
• 3:05
  -Just leave it -... at that point.
• 3:06
  -Yeah. -We've arrived at that point as, as, uh,
• 3:09
  you know,
• 3:10
  senior gentlemen that we are like, "You know what? I just like my iPhone as it
• 3:13
  -is." I don't- I don't need the dark mode- -Yeah
• 3:15
  ... the icons. I don't need the large icons with no text, although I have both
• 3:18
  of those turned on. Don't need them. Uh, you know? [laughs] I don't need them.
• 3:22
  -Yeah. -Uh, so no. I c- I can get that
• 3:24
  perspective. I, I will say, though, like, it's, um... No, no. It looks cool. Some of
• 3:28
  the stuff they have looks cool. I, I do actually wonder,
• 3:31
  um, with some of it, if... But, which by the way, folks, if you haven't gotten the
• 3:34
  chance to look at it, this is, like, a new design aesthetic that they're sort of
• 3:37
  carrying across all of their different products. So from the TV to your MacBook
• 3:44
  -to your iPad- -Mm-hmm
• 3:45
  ... to your phone to your watch, they're implementing this new design aesthetic, I
• 3:49
  guess is what I can call it. Um, Liquid Glass is the idea, and they're wanting to
• 3:53
  focus more on content. And so they want the controls to sort of get out of the
• 3:58
  -way, as it were- -Mm-hmm
• 3:59
  ... and
• 4:01
  to that end, they've made the controls
• 4:04
  more transparent, I suppose. The,
• 4:07
  uh, you know, at the bottom of your apps, normally you'll have a bar, like, an
• 4:11
  action bar that you can do things on, and what they've done is they've decided to
• 4:14
  make those contextual, almost. So you can think of, like, Dynamic Island at the top,
• 4:19
  -how it sort of changes- -Mm-hmm
• 4:20
  ... based on what live activities you have going on and things like that. Well,
• 4:24
  that, that section at the bottom sorta changes contextually based on where you're
• 4:28
  at in the app. If you're scrolling and you're at the bottom, it's gonna be
• 4:30
  different than if you're coming back up to the top and it's, and it's whatever. And,
• 4:33
  and then, and then it's transparent. It's not, like, a hard-
• 4:36
  -Yeah -... line color. It's-
• 4:37
  -No, it's frosted- -... it's a-
• 4:38
  -Frosted glass, basically. -Frosted glass. Sure. Yep.
• 4:40
  -Yeah. -And some of the effects that they have
• 4:42
  moving between things is really interesting, so I don't know. It's okay.
• 4:45
  I, I'm wondering, like, accessibility-wise, the contrast didn't
• 4:48
  seem that high. It seemed like for people who need higher contrast, even for just
• 4:53
  normal people who don't need higher contrast-
• 4:54
  -Yeah -... it seemed awfully close. Um, so
• 4:58
  anyway, I don't know. We'll see. I, I always love to kinda play with the new,
• 5:02
  the new designs and, and take a look at those, but...
• 5:05
  I don't know. Whatever, whatever it looks like outta the box is, is exactly how I'm
• 5:08
  gonna leave it. I'm definitely not going to customize my message background, so I,
• 5:13
  I can look at the icon and I know who I'm talking to. I don't need a
• 5:17
  wacky-colored background. I don't need any of this stuff. Like, the frosted glass is
• 5:21
  nice in things, like, in application where it's, like, the music app and the
• 5:25
  controls are... Yeah. Okay, that's fine, 'cause it allows them to present the
• 5:30
  cover art more, but
• 5:33
  it's not [laughs]... Like, you're not showing more of the, the background of the
• 5:37
  home screen because you've got all of these frosted glass elements because it's
• 5:40
  -all, it's all blurred anyway, so... -Yeah.
• 5:42
  -I don't know. It's- -Yeah.
• 5:43
  Whatever. Like, I get it. But whatever the default is, however the icons look when I
• 5:48
  install iOS 26 now, 'cause they've decided to t-... number of these things
• 5:53
  based on the year that they- they're released ahead of, rather than, you know-
• 5:57
  -Ah, interesting. Okay -... sequential numbers. So, obviously,
• 6:00
  -this will come out in September. -Kind of like with, like, vehicles.
• 6:01
  -Because it comes out in September. -Yeah.
• 6:03
  Yeah, like cars. You know, it's coming out in September. There's no point in calling
• 6:06
  it iOS 25 because 25 is almost over, so we'll... You know, this is-
• 6:09
  -Right -... iOS 26. Which I- I get that. Whatever.
• 6:11
  Totally fine. Um, but, yeah. However it looks out of the box is exactly how I'm
• 6:15
  gonna leave it. I'm not gonna change it. I'm not gonna look for any... Like, I s-
• 6:18
  I've created one Genmoji. I'm go- okay, that was fun.
• 6:22
  -I know. -So...
• 6:22
  -I'm with you on that. Like- -I think-
• 6:24
  -... I've created a couple, but not many -...
• 6:26
  I think the... I think the interesting perspective is that I, I... And I didn't
• 6:29
  see that because this happened at 3:00 AM, so I haven't... Whatever has crossed my
• 6:32
  -timeline in- -Sure
• 6:33
  ... in Twitter is all I've seen. But, um,
• 6:37
  I think the, the interesting perspective is that they, like, they just didn't talk
• 6:40
  -about Siri or Apple Intelligence at all. -Mm-hmm.
• 6:43
  And, you know, everyone's obviously,
• 6:45
  um, the sky is falling at Apple, they're so far behind on AI, they can't... You
• 6:49
  know, it's like... I don't know.
• 6:51
  They don't have to talk about it.
• 6:53
  They haven't delivered on the stuff that they promised last year, really, so why
• 6:57
  would they bring that up? I d- I also don't think... Like, they're sticking
• 6:59
  their heads in the sand a little bit as well, so.
• 7:01
  Yeah.
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  But who knows? Like, it's a, it's a multi-trillion dollar company. Clearly,
• 7:06
  AIs... And I don't know how much of it is tech bubble stuff. You know, we're
• 7:10
  obviously on the bleeding edge of AI, um, as developers and people that are using
• 7:15
  this stuff. I don't know... Like, I don't talk to anyone
• 7:19
  outside of tech, really, that
• 7:22
  even acknowledges AI as a thing. You know, it's not... I get that there are
• 7:27
  productivity gains and there are things to be said for, for that. Like,
• 7:31
  there are certainly
• 7:33
  consumer-focused applications of AI that, that are out there. Um,
• 7:39
  but I think a lot of it... You know, OpenAI, all of this chat, ChatGPT stuff,
• 7:43
  all of the, like, Claude and Cursor, these are all developer-focused tools.
• 7:48
  Yeah.
• 7:49
  Um, I feel like AI from a consumer perspective is kind of being rammed down
• 7:53
  people's throats. You know, you go to Google and it's no longer Google search
• 7:56
  results, it's Gemini, you know, the AI stuff at the top of, of the-
• 8:00
  -Yeah -... Google search results. So, like,
• 8:02
  people are not seeking this out. It's Google saying here's... This is how we're
• 8:05
  gonna deliver search results to you now. So, I don't,
• 8:09
  I don't know.
• 8:11
  Like, yes, there are certainly applications of it that people would find
• 8:16
  useful. I just don't know
• 8:18
  how broad that is.
• 8:20
  Well, I feel like, I feel like the applications that they would find useful
• 8:22
  have been integrated. So, you know, this is, like-
• 8:24
  -Mm-hmm -... sort of Apple's thing, where it's like
• 8:27
  when near field communication stuff, like NFC stuff first came out, Android, all the
• 8:31
  phones were like, "Oh, now shipping with NFC." And it was like, "What are we
• 8:36
  supposed to do with this?" Like, you c- it's-
• 8:37
  -Yeah -... it's a useful sort of, like, uh,
• 8:40
  headline, I suppose, but there was nothing actually useful that you could do with
• 8:44
  -it, right? It was like- -Yeah. Yeah, yeah
• 8:45
  ... okay, get a tag, and, like, if- when you walk in your home, you can, you know,
• 8:49
  tap your phone to that tag and it will activate smart home things. Or it's like,
• 8:52
  or you could just talk to your Siri or whatever. And it's just-
• 8:55
  -Yeah. Yeah -... I don't know. It wa- it just... It
• 8:56
  -seemed gimmicky, right? Um- -Mm-hmm
• 8:58
  ... and so Apple doesn't ever seem really satisfied to just take the technology at
• 9:03
  face value and just push it out there, like a very unrefined, raw version of it.
• 9:07
  -Mm-hmm. -Instead, they integrate it into a product,
• 9:09
  like Genmoji or like some of the Playground stuff that they've done, where
• 9:14
  you can take photos and use them as reference images and sort of add on
• 9:17
  -additional things. -Mm-hmm.
• 9:17
  They- they've done that, so they've, they've-
• 9:19
  -Yeah -... pulled that in. They've made it
• 9:20
  consumer-facing. They've done things where
• 9:23
  you can highlight the text and have, um, have it rewrite it for you. "Hey, I want
• 9:27
  this to sound more professional. Hey, I want this to sound more..." whatever. You,
• 9:29
  you can do all that stuff. So, the, the practical applications of it, I think have
• 9:33
  been delivered on. I don't, I don't really know that there's a whole lot else.
• 9:36
  Um, but I will say, too, that, you know, it's not like they're disa- disallowing,
• 9:41
  -like, ChatGPT from your phone. -Yeah.
• 9:43
  Like, I have that on my phone. And, also, if I tell it to ask ChatGPT, it will. So
• 9:48
  -they'll- -Yeah
• 9:49
  -... they have, like, a first party- -Yeah
• 9:50
  ... you know, I don't know if it's first party, but they have an integration with
• 9:52
  it, so it's like if I want that type of answer-
• 9:53
  -Yeah -... I can just have it ask it. And so-
• 9:55
  -You can connect to your account. -I don't know, like-
• 9:56
  -You can do all that kinda stuff, um, so. -Totally. I'm not so worried about it.
• 10:00
  -Like, I feel- -Yeah
• 10:01
  ... like I can get everything that I need to get without a whole bunch-
• 10:05
  -Mm-hmm -... of messing around. I, I think it's...
• 10:07
  Yeah, it's pretty good. So, I, I'm not too worried a- I'm not worried about that at
• 10:10
  all.
• 10:11
  -Um... -Yeah, I think when the time comes... And
• 10:13
  th- there was, like, a research paper that came out
• 10:16
  over the weekend, I think, or end of last week, from some researchers at Apple that
• 10:19
  basically said what we have now is peak AI. And, like, the, the approach is
• 10:24
  fundamentally flawed. Like, not, not flawed.
• 10:27
  It is fun- th- there is a ceiling that you, we just-
• 10:31
  -Mm-hmm -... won't get past with the approach that
• 10:32
  we're taking now, because it's just mimicry and, like, guessing based on what
• 10:37
  it already knows. It's not,
• 10:40
  um...
• 10:41
  You know, it's not able to infer stuff or create stuff or do stuff from scratch. You
• 10:45
  know, if we, if
• 10:47
  AGI is the goal, for better or worse, then the way that
• 10:52
  all of the known or all of the current stuff that is public, um, is being done is
• 10:57
  not gonna get, get us there. So, like, who's to say that Apple is not working on
• 11:01
  whatever the next thing is? You know, when the iPhone-
• 11:03
  -Yeah -... first launched,
• 11:06
  Google was making the next BlackBerry. They were, they were not even thinking.
• 11:09
  Now, you know, it might be OpenAI or it might be whoever else that comes up with
• 11:14
  whatever the next thing is. You know, it might not be Apple.
• 11:18
  Um, you know, Apple has always been, like, a hardware company that, that tied all of
• 11:22
  the hardware together with software.
• 11:25
  I think that
• 11:26
  whatever the next evolution is, you know, maybe Apple is working on that, maybe
• 11:30
  Google is working on that, you know, all of this stuff that's happening.
• 11:33
  I think
• 11:35
  c- for consumers, you know, everyone was looking... Like I said, Google was making
• 11:40
  the next BlackBerry, and they were 12 months behind the ball when Apple came out
• 11:44
  with, like, this piece of glass-You know, this single pane of glass on the-
• 11:50
  on the iPhone, you know? It was like, "Oh, we've been thinking about this all wrong
• 11:53
  because we've been thinking about how do we improve what we have, not what do
• 11:57
  -people want next," kind of thing, so. -Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, it's like,
• 12:01
  you know, Apple doesn't ever seem to be the pioneer in the parti- particular
• 12:05
  technology. They seem to be like the perfecters-
• 12:07
  -Very rarely -... of it though.
• 12:08
  -Yeah. -Yeah, yeah. It's like, um... You know,
• 12:10
  just, so I mean, we were talking about NFC, right? But there's- there's a lot of
• 12:12
  -other- -Yeah, NFC. Yeah
• 12:13
  ... things like that where it's like, you know, contactless payments. Well,
• 12:17
  everybody had it, but nobody actually adopted it until Apple was like, "Nope,
• 12:21
  we're gonna actually roll this thing out properly, and now everybody's gonna have
• 12:25
  it." And everybody has it now. And so, it, um, you know, I- I don't think they
• 12:29
  typically are the first ones to enter a space. They really wanna make sure they
• 12:31
  nail it when they do. So, I was reading an article recently called,
• 12:36
  I think it was something like AI and the Horseless Carriage. And it was this idea
• 12:39
  that when-
• 12:42
  when they first came up with the automobile,
• 12:45
  they didn't call it the automobile. They called it the horseless carriage because
• 12:48
  all they had previous to that was carriages with horses pulling them.
• 12:52
  -Yeah. -And so they were still in this mode of,
• 12:55
  "Oh, it's a carriage. It's just a carriage without a horse. It's a horseless
• 12:58
  carriage." That was how it was advertised, and you still had the person sitting on
• 13:01
  -the outside of this thing. -Yeah.
• 13:03
  -Like, out on the front. -Yeah.
• 13:03
  Like, as if there would be a horse there normally, so it's just like you had this
• 13:07
  bizarre,
• 13:08
  like...
• 13:09
  They didn't know yet how to utilize the technology. They just sort of took the
• 13:13
  -horse away and that was it, right? -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
• 13:14
  And we're seeing sort of the inverse of that where it's like we've got these
• 13:17
  applications that have existed for forever, and now we're just sprinkling AI
• 13:20
  -on top of everything. -Yeah. [laughs]
• 13:21
  And the idea was like, no, no, no. We need a reinvention of these applications.
• 13:25
  -Right. -This is not email with AI on top. It's an
• 13:28
  -AI-enabled... Like, it's AI first inbox. -Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 13:31
  Like. every piece that comes in is going to first be analyzed by, and then we're
• 13:35
  going to use the intelligence to only deliver-
• 13:37
  -Yeah -... to you the things that you need, and
• 13:39
  we're going to draft a response for you using a prompt that you provided that has
• 13:43
  context about you and your life and your tone of voice, right?
• 13:46
  -Mm-hmm. -That's what you need. That is the next
• 13:48
  -generation application. -Mm-hmm.
• 13:49
  -It's not a horseless carriage. -Yeah.
• 13:50
  -It's an automobile, right? -Yeah, yeah.
• 13:52
  And so that's- that was kind of the idea of the article, and I think that's...
• 13:55
  Hopefully that's where Apple's headed, and hopefully that's what they're thinking
• 13:58
  about too, so.
• 14:00
  I also think, interesting from a consumer perspective, like us as, you know,
• 14:04
  developers, engineers, whatever you wanna call
• 14:07
  our cohort of people, like yeah, we will be early adopters for this stuff, but
• 14:12
  we're also
• 14:14
  generally in a position financially to pay for this stuff. And, like, some people
• 14:17
  are spending hundreds of dollars a month on,
• 14:21
  um, you know, licenses... Not licenses. Subscriptions and tokens and-
• 14:24
  -Yeah -... what have you. Like, the average
• 14:27
  consumer, especially, you know, with the price of housing and the cost of living
• 14:30
  and all of that kind of stuff, I don't... You know, I assume it's fairly similar in
• 14:33
  the US for large portions of the population, but, like, in Australia,
• 14:37
  people are not gonna be spending $200 a month for, um, you know, GPT credits or
• 14:43
  Cloud credits or whatever else because- [laughs]
• 14:46
  -Yeah -... these- these are the... There's a
• 14:48
  large percentage of the population that, like, can't afford groceries week to week,
• 14:52
  you know? So,
• 14:54
  the economies of scale have to kick in before any of that stuff is viable anyway,
• 14:58
  -so. -Yeah, and I mean, these things aren't free
• 15:00
  -either. Like, these- these- -No. Yeah, the compute, the-
• 15:02
  ... you know, these cycles they're running-
• 15:03
  -... electricity, all of this stuff. -... it's not- it's not insignificant.
• 15:06
  -Yeah, they're run- -No.
• 15:06
  You're a- you're running on VC bucks right now. You know, everything is.
• 15:09
  -Right. Yeah. -Um, but it-
• 15:10
  -Look, and look how much money, like- -... can't s- be sustained forever.
• 15:13
  Yeah, like, look how much money, um, Tesla has put into building out, you know,
• 15:18
  their compute clusters. Look how much money OpenAI is spending, how much,
• 15:22
  uh, money Microsoft is investing in Azure and building all these data centers and
• 15:27
  thing. Like,
• 15:28
  -this is not infinitely scalable with- -Right
• 15:31
  ... you know, current- current, um, technology in terms of power production
• 15:35
  and- and the power consumption. It's, you know,
• 15:38
  you know, there- there is a limit to- to what can be done with the current
• 15:42
  approach. And things are getting faster and things are certainly getting more
• 15:46
  economical, but I think there is still a ceiling. We can't keep, you know, churning
• 15:51
  through water and electricity and whatever else to- to power all of these
• 15:55
  things, so.
• 15:57
  Yeah.
• 15:58
  -Yeah. -Interesting. Well, that didn't go the way
• 16:00
  I was thinking it would, but it was still a very interesting discussion anyway.
• 16:03
  -Thank you- -Yeah
• 16:03
  ... for the insights on that. I love that.
• 16:04
  -That's all right. -Um,
• 16:06
  okay, so I have a couple items here. I- I- I have a few things that I'm just wanting
• 16:12
  to talk about as, like, a, "Do you think this is interesting?" Or I thought they
• 16:15
  -were interesting, maybe you will too. -Mm-hmm.
• 16:17
  And then I had a-
• 16:20
  maybe a scenario to share and/or a interesting
• 16:25
  question for where you would store particular values if you were wanting to
• 16:29
  generate pages that were sort of static. Where should we store that data?
• 16:32
  -Mm-hmm. -So I'll save that one towards the end.
• 16:34
  But,
• 16:35
  um, we've been working recently on our website for our job application page.
• 16:40
  Basically, like, who we are as a company, and if you want to come work with us, what
• 16:45
  our values are, what our culture is,
• 16:48
  what jobs are available, et cetera, right? Previous to the... Previous to this
• 16:51
  iteration, it was just a job board. Basically, here are the jobs we have
• 16:54
  available. You like it or you don't, go click and apply, right?
• 16:57
  And now we've sort of morphed it into who are we as a company? What are our values?
• 17:01
  What is our culture? Where are we at? What are our locations? How do you get here?
• 17:05
  What do you expect in an interview? Just a lot more content, right? And so,
• 17:10
  to that end, we've got a new designer on the team and he's killing it, doing a
• 17:14
  great job, but it's basically pushed me back into this, um,
• 17:19
  this
• 17:20
  role that I really enjoy but don't really get a lot of time to spend, uh, on, which
• 17:25
  is just designing things or coming up with ideas for things that I think would be-
• 17:29
  would be interesting. And- and so
• 17:31
  I've been gathering some inspiration from a couple places around, and one place that
• 17:34
  I found that I thought was really, really good, uh, is Kit.com.
• 17:39
  So if you go to Kit.com/features, this is what used to be ConvertKit, right? They
• 17:43
  changed over to just Kit. So Kit.com/features is really cool.And one of
• 17:48
  the things that I really loved on their page is their use of video. Now, you know,
• 17:52
  video is not new at all. We've been using video on the web for a long time.
• 17:57
  However,
• 17:59
  I feel like the video format that we typically see on the web is quite static.
• 18:03
  It's typically a 16 by 9 window, it's got a big play button in it, and you play the
• 18:08
  video or you don't, right? And most of the time, you don't. I mean, like, unless
• 18:12
  you're going to somebody's page to see something,
• 18:15
  you know, like that, like, that's typically how videos are shown on, on web
• 18:20
  pages these days is, is that, "Hey, it's a video that we've put together for you to
• 18:23
  view. It's a minute long," whatever. Click then see. Eh, maybe, maybe not. Or you
• 18:28
  might have, like, video backgrounds which are pretty cool. There's some novel uses
• 18:31
  of video, uh, where, like, you scroll the page and it advances. You know, they're
• 18:35
  using mp4s instead of, like, a GIF or something like that and, sort of, because
• 18:39
  they're more efficient, maybe they're advancing as you scroll the page. Y- maybe
• 18:42
  you've seen some of that. So tho- those are kind of cool but, but whatever. The
• 18:45
  thing I really like about what Kit has done is instead of using that 16 by 9
• 18:48
  format, they've done more like a square format. So if I was to... You know, they
• 18:53
  have, like, a employee testimonial on the page, so it's a stripe across the page,
• 18:57
  and on the left-hand side, they have, um, like, a square or maybe a little bit
• 19:02
  taller than wide. So maybe it's rectangular, it's a little bit taller than
• 19:06
  -that. -Yeah, slightly.
• 19:06
  But it's, it's where you would normally see, like, an avatar, right? You'd see-
• 19:09
  -Mm-hmm. -You'd, you'd think like, okay, I have a, a
• 19:11
  testimonial on the right, I'm gonna have, like, a circle avatar or I'm gonna have,
• 19:14
  like, some sort of, like, you know, square-ish sort of avatar there. But it's
• 19:17
  -not, it's a video. -Yeah.
• 19:19
  Which is really cool. And it's autoplaying but with
• 19:24
  no audio, right? And so what it does is it just has, like, the first five, six
• 19:29
  seconds of the video playing there for you, sort of like what you would have if
• 19:33
  you're on YouTube and you mouse over a Short. It starts to play that first five,
• 19:37
  six seconds of the clip, and then it repeats. You know what I'm saying? And
• 19:41
  -then if you wanna watch that- -It kinda makes it a GIF that bounces
• 19:43
  ... if that piques your interest, yes, then you can click on it. Um, and so what
• 19:47
  it has is it has this really neat little icon at the top, which is this black
• 19:50
  circle that has audio and, you know, you hover over it and it says, "Click for
• 19:53
  -sound." You click it- -Mm-hmm
• 19:54
  ... and it will begin to play. And then if you click it again, it will pause it with
• 19:58
  a big pause button, and if you click it again, it'll play, right? So all these
• 20:01
  sort of considerations that you'd make for how do I expose the idea that this is a
• 20:05
  playable thing to them without bi- putting a big play button on it-
• 20:09
  -Yeah -... are available. It's moving, so it's,
• 20:10
  like, intuitive, "Oh, this is a video I can play. Very cool." Um, and then things
• 20:15
  that are difficult
• 20:17
  to
• 20:18
  do with it on mobile are also considered. So I was like, "This is a really great
• 20:22
  pattern. I love this idea of using video in a different format." It's, it's unique.
• 20:26
  It's, um,
• 20:29
  uh, it's, like, really tasteful. It's done really well, and it's, it's, um, it, it
• 20:32
  feels like the right place and the right way to use it. However,
• 20:36
  we tried to make something like this on our own. It's near impossible
• 20:40
  to come up with... You know, nobody has embeds for this stuff other than, like, a
• 20:44
  -16... -Yeah.
• 20:44
  You know, you're gonna use YouTube? Not working. It's not gonna work. You're gonna
• 20:46
  -use Vimeo? You can't do it. -Mm-hmm.
• 20:47
  Like, so you either have to roll your own, which is a pain in the butt, because
• 20:52
  using those different aspect ratios, where are you gonna host it? Um, you know, then
• 20:56
  you're gonna have to do your own video tag. It's a pain in the neck. And then you
• 21:00
  have to do the, the click-to-do, you have to do the, uh, the autoplay.
• 21:02
  -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -It's a mess.
• 21:04
  So what I found out is that kit.com uses Wistia, which I had never heard of before,
• 21:08
  but it is a video hosting platform
• 21:11
  where they allow you to do all these things. Uh, custom embed sizes, uh, this
• 21:16
  au- you know, this click-to-play audio thing that's, it's a thing. They, they,
• 21:19
  -they just already have it. -Yeah.
• 21:21
  And then they also have, I think it's called, like, Tesseract or something like
• 21:24
  that. I can't remember exactly, but it's essentially how they deliver the video to
• 21:29
  con- to, to, um,
• 21:32
  to devices, right? How, how they really are...
• 21:34
  -Yeah. -They're insanely, uh, obsessed with
• 21:37
  efficiently delivering these experiences to users in a very, um, low bandwidth way.
• 21:43
  And so they've got not only their first version, they've got their second version
• 21:46
  out, which was even faster. And so it's something like 90% faster or something
• 21:50
  than YouTube or Vimeo's embeds. Really lightweight, really good stuff. And so
• 21:55
  we've been using them. I was like, "Screw it. Switch out all of our videos that even
• 21:58
  use YouTube or Vimeo for embeds and put this in there instead." I've been so
• 22:03
  pleased. It is really good, and their embeds are awesome. I pay, I think it's
• 22:08
  like 12 bucks a month we're paying. Totally worth it. And, um, just, just
• 22:13
  super impressed. So huge shout-out to kit.com because their stuff looks great,
• 22:18
  and, um, I'd be lying if I didn't say we're essentially just ripping off some of
• 22:22
  -those ideas in some of our- -[laughs]
• 22:23
  ... [laughs] in some of our testimonial stuff. I'm like, "Why reinvent this? This
• 22:26
  -looks so good, I'm gonna-" -Yeah.
• 22:27
  "... I'm gonna kinda go with this." Um, but wistia.com has been really cool, so
• 22:31
  -definitely check that out. -Nice.
• 22:32
  Um, if you're looking for something novel like that, I just thought it was really
• 22:35
  cool.
• 22:36
  Hmm.
• 22:37
  Very interesting. Yeah, it's always, uh, interesting to look at these video
• 22:42
  delivery tools,
• 22:44
  platforms, whatever it is, um, and, like,
• 22:48
  -fairly reasonably priced in terms of... -Yeah, totally.
• 22:51
  Um,
• 22:52
  you know, the free plan is 200 gig of bandwidth and,
• 22:55
  um,
• 22:57
  -what is it, 10, I guess, 10 files? -Mm-hmm.
• 22:59
  Is that, that what they're saying here? So-
• 23:01
  -Yep -... you know, if you're just getting
• 23:02
  started with something, you're probably not gonna serve a great deal of content,
• 23:05
  and I assume that they're doing all the transcode and things like that as well, so
• 23:08
  -they're delivering optimized media and- -Being able to leverage media.
• 23:10
  -Yeah. So- -Everything.
• 23:11
  -That's- -Yep
• 23:12
  ... that's really cool. Professional hosting.
• 23:13
  -It is. -No code replacement, video SEO, video
• 23:16
  chaptering using AI. There you go. Video creation. It's just, like, a whole heap of
• 23:19
  different stuff. So if you're looking for-
• 23:21
  -Yep -... for video stuff and you're, you're not
• 23:23
  Aaron Francis and you don't wanna go out and build your own thing that serves video
• 23:27
  -off of Cloudflare- -Yeah.
• 23:28
  -Um- -Yeah
• 23:29
  ... then yeah, maybe, maybe consider this. So-
• 23:31
  -Totally. -There's, like,
• 23:33
  the...
• 23:33
  Having, having worked in this space a while ago now, you know, all of this stuff
• 23:37
  exists now that didn't really exist back then, which is why we built a platform to,
• 23:41
  to do it all. There's just so much involved in terms of transcode and then
• 23:44
  videos, and then devices become problematic because, you know, if you
• 23:48
  think you're testing on, like, your Chrome device but you don't have access to all
• 23:51
  of the different Android devices, and all the different Android and Google devices
• 23:54
  do things differently with t-Video playback and autoplay. That does or
• 23:59
  doesn't work and different, you know, bit rates and things. It's just to, to have a
• 24:03
  platform, like, if, especially if it's not your focus, if your focus is just
• 24:07
  delivering video content to the internet for people to consume.
• 24:10
  Um, and, and, like, if you wanna have some control over it, obviously if you don't
• 24:14
  care too much, you'd put it on YouTube or, or whatever else and just link to YouTube
• 24:17
  directly. But if you're wanting to present stuff on your own website, then
• 24:21
  yeah, something like this is, is great. Even, even like their-
• 24:23
  -Yeah -... paid plan at $25 a month is, is pretty
• 24:26
  reasonable. Um, and that allows you to customize-
• 24:28
  -Yeah. Exactly -... the player as well. Clickable video
• 24:30
  CTAs, which is, I, I assume is what you're doing, so.
• 24:33
  -Yeah. Yep. There's... -[clears throat]
• 24:35
  I mean, there's really, there's a whole suite of things you can do, and if you get
• 24:38
  into, like, their features, they, they've got... I mean, even if you go to
• 24:40
  wistia.com, they've also got really novel uses of video throughout their whole site,
• 24:45
  obviously, right? That's what they're selling. And so, um, if you look through
• 24:48
  their stuff, there's some really cool things that you can do or that, you know,
• 24:51
  that are just, like, sort of inspiration things. I, I think for me, what it is too
• 24:56
  is it's, I, I'm hoping to get something that somebody's going to, it's gonna make
• 24:59
  -them pause on the page. -Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:02
  And
• 25:03
  I think, you know, one of the things that will hook my attention... Well, currently,
• 25:06
  right now, like, a great way to hook my attention is something that looks like a
• 25:09
  -short, you know? -Mm-hmm.
• 25:11
  Everybody's pushing this concept. I think we were just talking, I was just
• 25:14
  listening, I think Aaron, Aaron and Ian were just talking about this, how, like,
• 25:18
  YouTube, you know, YouTube is pushing shorts. Like, you know, when you go to
• 25:21
  their Apple TV official app and, like, shorts are at the very top.
• 25:25
  -Yeah. -Like, they, they've recognized, people
• 25:27
  recognize that, whether it's TikTok, whether it's Instagram-
• 25:29
  -Mm-hmm -... or whether it's Threads, whatever,
• 25:31
  -right? The- -Yeah, everyone wants a quick content clip
• 25:32
  -of something -Yeah. Correct. Nobody wants a minute and a
• 25:35
  -half video. Nobody wants a- -Yeah
• 25:36
  ... minute video. They just want something quick. And sort of appealing to that same
• 25:40
  aesthetic, giving a, like, a differently shaped video that's autoplaying, hooking
• 25:44
  into that, I think is a great way to sort of utilize, um, or sort of hack the
• 25:51
  attention of those users because that's what they're used to already, right?
• 25:55
  -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -So, um, when reading an article not too
• 25:57
  long ago about web patterns, they were like, "Don't reinvent the wheel." Like,
• 26:02
  look at what Amazon is doing. They've spent millions of dollars in research to
• 26:07
  -figure out the best way to do this. Just- -Mm-hmm
• 26:09
  ... borrow what they're already doing, right?
• 26:11
  -Yeah. -And so this is the same idea. Like,
• 26:13
  they've, people have already figured this out. This autoplay thing really captures
• 26:16
  -people attention- -Mm-hmm
• 26:17
  ... people's attention, and they already know, they've already been trained to
• 26:20
  click on the video if they wanna watch the rest of it.
• 26:21
  -Yeah. -Utilize it. Hack that thing, right? Grab
• 26:23
  -their attention that way. -Yeah. Yeah, there, there are certain
• 26:25
  things that, like, you look at these giant companies and you shouldn't do. You know,
• 26:30
  obviously you don't need,
• 26:32
  you don't need Amazon scale infrastructure for your 50 view a month [laughs] blog or
• 26:36
  -anything like that. But in terms of- -Right
• 26:38
  ... this kind of stuff where they've, they've invested
• 26:42
  tons of time and money to, to figure out what people are actually clicking on,
• 26:45
  because what they want is for people to click on stuff.
• 26:48
  -Yeah. -Then, you know, those are the kinds of
• 26:49
  things that you can leverage. I will say that, like, I hate seeing YouTube shorts
• 26:53
  on my TV 'cause if I'm opening my TV, like, I wanna watch something on the big
• 26:56
  -screen. I don't wanna watch [laughs]- -Yeah
• 26:57
  -... vertical resolution short- -Yeah, totally
• 26:59
  -... on, on my TV, so. -Yeah.
• 27:01
  But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely, um, interesting. I like, I
• 27:05
  like those little testimonial type things. I should, uh-
• 27:08
  -Mm-hmm -... use that-
• 27:09
  -Mm-hmm -... for something in the future.
• 27:12
  Um,
• 27:13
  maybe for Laracon.
• 27:14
  -Maybe for Laracon, yeah. I wanna- -Do you wanna talk, do you wanna talk about
• 27:16
  Laracon real quick before I, before I jump into-
• 27:19
  We can talk, we can talk about other Laracons
• 27:19
  -... either of my other two, uh- -Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:21
  -... topics? Yeah. All right. -Well, where-
• 27:22
  -Let's just do that. -You and I-
• 27:23
  I'm gonna grab my water bo- I'm gonna refill my water bottle while you do that.
• 27:26
  Water bottle. Yeah, yeah. That's fine. So you, you and I-
• 27:28
  -While this thing is going. -As, as part of Laravel New- Like, last
• 27:31
  year you, you did with David Hemphill, like, a bit of a,
• 27:35
  a recap of day one. So I think you and I we're gonna try and do a day one, day two
• 27:39
  recap as a, as a "official Laravel News" thing. But then I think we're also gonna
• 27:44
  look at wandering around and doing some vox pops, which, you know, is a Latin
• 27:48
  thing that I forget the full version of it. It's basically going round and, and
• 27:52
  catching people's opinions. And, and I'm sure Eric will get that edited up 'cause I
• 27:56
  don't wanna do it, but I'm sure [laughs] he'll do something with that where we take
• 28:00
  all those opinions from people. We'll talk about, you know, the highlights, the,
• 28:02
  the, you know, the reasons that you attend a conference, et cetera, et cetera,
• 28:05
  and put them together into some,
• 28:07
  some content for Laravel News around the place. So, if you see Jake and I wandering
• 28:11
  -around with microphones at Laracon A- -Yes, yes
• 28:13
  ... uh, La- Laracon in Denver, then, uh, you will know why. Um, and yeah, we'll
• 28:18
  probably do some similar... Like, I just ran out of time to do it at Laracon AU
• 28:22
  last year, but I'd be keen to
• 28:24
  do that kind of thing as well. 'Cause it's nice to have the, the testimonials and
• 28:28
  things like that up on the website, you know, for people that are on the fence or
• 28:30
  are trying to sell it to their employers and things like that. Why, why would I go
• 28:34
  to this thing?
• 28:35
  Um, some, you know, some places are more difficult than others to, to sell it into,
• 28:39
  so,
• 28:41
  um, yeah. We definitely, definitely wanna see what we can do with, with that kind of
• 28:45
  -stuff as well. 'Cause- -We're excited for that
• 28:46
  ... it needs to be more than just m- my face on videos, I think. [laughs]
• 28:49
  [laughs] Right. Yeah. They said that they're gonna have, like, a green room at,
• 28:54
  -um, Laracon this year sort of reserved- -Mm-hmm
• 28:56
  ... for podcasting stuff, so I just think-
• 28:57
  -Yeah. -That's a great idea.
• 28:58
  -Pretty cool. -That was really cool. So should be fun
• 29:00
  -times. -Yeah. Looking forward to it. It's, um,
• 29:01
  it's coming up quick now. What are we? Tenth of, tenth of June, ninth of June. So
• 29:05
  we're only, you know, what? Six or so weeks? Five, six weeks away from-
• 29:09
  -Yeah -... me jumping on a plane for-
• 29:11
  -Yeah -... 72 hours of travel for a 48 hour
• 29:13
  -[laughs] stopover. [laughs] -Mm-hmm. And right now, right now-
• 29:17
  I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be so tired. [laughs]
• 29:20
  Yeah, dude. You are going to be toast. You better just start getting-
• 29:22
  -I get there- -... sleep. Banking sleep right now.
• 29:24
  -Yes. Stop, stop banking it. -For when... Yeah. Six weeks from now. Yep.
• 29:26
  I am... Monday I leave at, like, 6:00 AM
• 29:29
  here, fly to Sydney, then fly to Dallas to Denver. Um, so I'll, I'll get to Dallas
• 29:34
  at... I, I leave at, I leave Sydney at 10:00 and I get to Dallas at 10:30 on
• 29:39
  Monday. On the same day, 'cause time zones are lots of fun. And then I think I get
• 29:43
  in at, like, 3:00 PM on, on Monday arvo to, to Denver, and then, uh... So I'm
• 29:48
  traveling with Aaron. So OG Aaron will be there with me.
• 29:52
  -Even though you saw him? -And, uh, we'll be there for, uh...
• 29:54
  Unfortunately, our return flight got changed. We were supposed to leave at,
• 29:57
  like, 5:00 PM or something like that on Thursday.
• 30:00
  -Mm-hmm. -And the flight got-... brought forward to
• 30:02
  11 AM. So instead of having a day in Denver-
• 30:04
  -Yeah -... we're gonna have eight hours to kick
• 30:06
  around LAX on the way back, so... [inhales]
• 30:09
  -No good. No good. -That's a... That'll be, that'll be
• 30:11
  interesting. But, uh, we might venture out to... There's, I think, on the strip
• 30:14
  outside of the airport, there's like Five Guys, Chick-fil-A, and In-N-Out Burger. I
• 30:18
  said, "Let's just do all three of them. What's the worst that could happen?" You
• 30:21
  -know? -Nice. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 30:22
  There's a 16-hour flight ahead of us and three different-
• 30:23
  -Totally -... types of burger. [laughs]
• 30:25
  [laughs]
• 30:27
  Yeah, that'll be glorious. I, I, I wanna hear about that when you get back. Maybe
• 30:30
  -it's- maybe, like, uh, -... on India from last year, right? Like,
• 30:34
  -just that, uh.... -Ah, yeah.
• 30:35
  We won't go into details. We won't go into details on that, but, but yeah. Uh, yeah,
• 30:39
  no, dude, I'm looking forward to it. It's gonna be a great time, and, and, um,
• 30:44
  Denver's a great place. Like, there's a lot of fun stuff to do there, and so, um,
• 30:48
  really excited for that too. I, I think that they're actually... I heard that they
• 30:51
  might be doing a golf outing previous to-
• 30:53
  Yeah, some golfing on, on Monday, yeah.
• 30:56
  -Something like that, so... -And I'm going to my first golf lesson
• 30:58
  -tomorrow. -Oh. You, you can-
• 31:01
  -True story -... get into it.
• 31:01
  We, we've, we've been... Well, so, uh, my son and I have been golfing recently.
• 31:06
  -Um... -Mm-hmm.
• 31:07
  Uh, and so I'm... It's been super enjoyable, a lot of fun. And so we've both
• 31:11
  -kinda caught the bug again, so- -[laughs]
• 31:13
  ... there's a kid that we know who's a really decent golfer, and he's, like,
• 31:16
  offering lessons this summer. He, he went to... He, you know, he's got a scholarship
• 31:19
  at college to play, and so I'm like, "Heck, I mean, what's the worst that could
• 31:22
  -happen? I'm sure he'll help me-" -Yeah.
• 31:24
  "... do some stuff better." And so, yeah, we're going to some lessons tomorrow,
• 31:26
  which should be fun, but I don't know. I'm, I might try and get in on that. The
• 31:29
  only problem is, like, I have to, like, ship my clubs there, you know, so...
• 31:32
  -Yeah. -May- they might have-
• 31:34
  -I'm sure they'll have some -... rentals, though. I think they actually
• 31:35
  -have rentals. -Yeah, they'll have rentals.
• 31:35
  -Maybe I- -Yeah.
• 31:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So... Yeah, maybe I'll do that. We'll see.
• 31:38
  I'm sure it'll be fine. Yeah, no, I think I'll have to miss it just because s- it's
• 31:43
  too hard. Like, this is the first time that I have been, obviously since the kids
• 31:47
  -were born. Uh, well- -Yeah
• 31:48
  ... sorry, first time since New York in 2019. So Eli was, like, one year old then.
• 31:54
  So it's, it's been a while, and I, I, I'm... I've got the leave pass, but it's,
• 31:58
  like, go and come back in as short a period of time as you can. So, yeah-
• 32:02
  -For sure -... leave, leave Monday, back Saturday,
• 32:07
  -because time zones again. So w- I missed- -Mm-hmm
• 32:09
  -... all of Friday, but, um- -Yep.
• 32:10
  Fortunately, fortunately, it is the week after Liv starts school, so I won't miss
• 32:14
  her first week, which is, which is good. Um, she just had-
• 32:17
  -No, that's- -... her second-
• 32:18
  -Yeah -... second transition visit today, which
• 32:19
  she was a bit,
• 32:21
  um, bit upset about. Like, she didn't wanna go, it was gonna be too boring, it
• 32:24
  -was gonna be too long. -[laughs]
• 32:26
  And then she didn't wanna leave when Rhee went to pick her up, and then she didn't
• 32:29
  wanna go back to kindy. She's like, "Can you pick me up at lunchtime?" We're like,
• 32:32
  "No, no. You've..." You know, "We're working, you've gotta
• 32:34
  go, go and do that." So she's only got a few weeks of, of, uh, kindy, kindergarten
• 32:40
  left before she starts school, which is exciting, and,
• 32:43
  um,
• 32:45
  yeah, it's a bit... When you stop and think about it, it's like, wow, it's, um,
• 32:49
  five, just almost five years of, of her life have already just, like, blown by.
• 32:53
  -Yeah, dude, that's wild. -And it's, it's Eli's birthday today. He
• 32:56
  turns seven, so
• 32:59
  it's just... Time flies, really. I said to him, walking him to school this morning,
• 33:03
  like, "It, it feels like just yesterday we were bringing you home from the hospital,
• 33:06
  -and here you are-" -Yeah.
• 33:07
  -"... like, halfway through-" -Yeah
• 33:08
  -"... your second year of school, so." -Yep. Big kids, man. Uh, if you... Do you
• 33:12
  know who Ben Rector is?
• 33:15
  -No. No, I don't think so. -He's a, he's a, he's a musician.
• 33:17
  -Okay. -Um, [sighs] I picked up listening to Ben
• 33:20
  Rector, I don't know, the first time I heard any of his songs was probably, like,
• 33:22
  15 or 16 years ago, I think. I just sorta happened across it on MusicBed. David
• 33:27
  -Hemphill used to work there. -Oh, yeah.
• 33:28
  -And so- -Mm-hmm
• 33:29
  ... I was pulling a song for something, and I came across one of these songs. I
• 33:32
  was like, "Oh, this is really good. I don't know who this is." Ben Rector? I've
• 33:34
  never heard of him. I was like, "He's just some indie artist or something out of
• 33:37
  Nashville, I'm not sure."
• 33:39
  And so
• 33:40
  as time went on, I sort of listened to some... A couple more of his things. But
• 33:42
  -anyway, he's a dad now- -Mm-hmm
• 33:44
  ... and his latest album is so... There's so much about, like, parenthood in there,
• 33:51
  and it's just a super good album. It's the, one of the best ones he's, he's had,
• 33:55
  I've, I think. And so, um, if you're looking for-
• 33:59
  -Check it out -... something to get you to be reflective
• 34:01
  on how quick time is passing for your kids, definitely check out Ben Rector's
• 34:04
  latest, latest album. It's super good. Super, super good. But yeah, I was
• 34:09
  listening to it in my, in my car with my daughters on my way somewhere yesterday.
• 34:15
  -Mm-hmm. -And I, uh, I had to stop singing for a
• 34:18
  minute 'cause I was like, "Ooh boy, this is gonna get heavy. This is gonna get-"
• 34:21
  -Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. -I was, like, thinking of my daughters
• 34:23
  while I was in the car, that song. I was like, "Ooh boy, all right. Uh, it's gotta
• 34:28
  chill for a minute here." It's so good, though. So good.
• 34:30
  -It's, it's- -But very emotional. As, like, a parent,
• 34:32
  like, listening to some of these things, it's like, okay, 'cause he's hitting, he
• 34:34
  hits the nail on the head at a couple of spots. Where he's-
• 34:36
  -Yeah. -I think one of his songs are called Golden
• 34:38
  -Days. Like, these are the golden days. -Mm-hmm.
• 34:40
  Oh man, it's really good. So anyway, check it out. Definitely.
• 34:43
  It's, it's, it's definitely funny as a parent the kinds of things that hit you,
• 34:47
  -that you, like, don't expect- -Yes. Yeah
• 34:49
  ... to hit you. Like, we, we went and when Liv did her first transition visit last
• 34:53
  week, we went
• 34:56
  and we met with, like, the principal and the vice principal, and they talked about
• 34:58
  the school and all of this kind of stuff. And we just said it's like a bit of a
• 35:01
  refresher, 'cause we've been there for a year already, but, um,
• 35:04
  just talking about... 'Cause the, the school that we're in used to be considered
• 35:08
  a bit of, like, a, a poor school. Um, it was, like, in a low socioeconomic area. It
• 35:14
  didn't really get the funding. Um, they were, like, considered average for
• 35:19
  schools like them. You know, so, you know, within their, their group, they're like,
• 35:24
  "Uh, you know, you're as shit as the other schools." So
• 35:27
  they didn't do anything. There was no... Like, they didn't get any extra funding or
• 35:30
  any extra support or anything like that. And when the current principal came in,
• 35:34
  this was back in 2011, there was like 150 students in the school, and their focus
• 35:38
  was all around compliance rather than learning and, and all of this kind of
• 35:43
  stuff. And over the last
• 35:44
  14 years, to see the turnaround where it's now like a, a 500-person or 500-student
• 35:50
  school, where they effectively get
• 35:54
  their pick of, you know, whichever teachers they want, they go and poach
• 35:56
  them. They're having to turn students away now, because they're at capacity. They're
• 36:00
  building new, new classrooms and new buildings and things like that.And, um,
• 36:05
  and- and all of it's changed
• 36:07
  just because they're giving opportunities. And I'm sitting there, and I'm, like,
• 36:11
  welling up going, "Oh." You know, it's-
• 36:14
  it's just... Y- y- like I said, you don't know
• 36:17
  -what's gonna set you off, but it's like- -Yeah.
• 36:20
  There are these complete strangers to your children
• 36:23
  that, you know, you trust that they're going to- to set them up
• 36:28
  for life, to teach them, you know, how to read and write and do maths and- and all
• 36:32
  of this kind of stuff. But to- to support them as their own? Like, I sometimes-
• 36:37
  -Yeah, yeah. -Some days, it's hard enough, like,
• 36:38
  supporting your own kids to the level that-
• 36:40
  -Yeah. -... th- they- they need 'cause, you know,
• 36:42
  being a parent is- is hard work. But then to have these, like, complete strangers
• 36:48
  treat your children a- as their own children is just,
• 36:52
  um, really, really heartening to see that there are people out there in the world
• 36:56
  that will go out of their way to- to- to look after kids and to- t- to do the right
• 37:02
  thing by them. So...
• 37:04
  Yeah, it's like they adopt them for a year almost because-
• 37:06
  -Yeah -... you know, in reality, they end up
• 37:09
  spending more time with your kids than you do.
• 37:10
  -More time, yeah. Yeah. -I mean, truly.
• 37:12
  -Yeah. -Like, more waking hours are spent with
• 37:14
  -that teacher than are spent with you- -Mm-hmm
• 37:15
  -... as their parent. -Mm-hmm.
• 37:16
  And so, yeah, it's crucially important that you have those good teachers and
• 37:20
  -stuff, but it is. -Yeah.
• 37:21
  That's- it's incredible. Like, we're so blessed to have people who have dedicated
• 37:25
  their lives to helping kids and families, right?
• 37:27
  -Yeah. -And help society really, right?
• 37:29
  -Yeah. -Um, and so yeah. That's really cool.
• 37:31
  I don't know how people that homeschool their kids can do it 'cause I- I- I
• 37:34
  wouldn't know. And the- and the stuff that they come home with, you know, the way
• 37:37
  that they- they learn now and the way that they're taught now is very different to
• 37:41
  what it was when I was in school 30 years ago.
• 37:43
  -Okay. Yeah. -And, you know, Eli coming home, and he's
• 37:46
  telling me about phonics and digraphs and, like, "Did you know Y is, like, the
• 37:50
  sometimes vowel?" I'm like, "What are you talking about?"
• 37:52
  -[laughs] -Like, it was funny. Him, he... A-
• 37:54
  -actually- -Yeah
• 37:55
  ... as a- as a former math teacher, you may be able to... You may know this.
• 37:59
  He came, and, like, they're learning, uh, addition and subtraction, and they... H-
• 38:04
  he always writes everything left to right. And I'm like, I- I don't wanna get in his
• 38:07
  way. I don't wanna confuse him, right? However he's learning is- is what I wanna
• 38:11
  try and support him to learn. 'Cause when I did it, it was like, you know, addition,
• 38:14
  -subtraction, top to bottom. -Yeah.
• 38:16
  -You get the right- -Yeah, right to left. Yeah, yeah.
• 38:17
  You work right to left, you carry the numbers-
• 38:19
  -Yeah, exactly -... and all that kind of stuff. And
• 38:20
  [laughs]
• 38:21
  he says to me... Oh, he goes, "No, this is how we do it now." There's, like, the-
• 38:25
  the make- the make 10 strategy or something where you, like, get the numbers
• 38:28
  -and- -Hmm, okay
• 38:29
  ... figure it out, how to get to 10. He goes, "In the olden days, they used to
• 38:32
  call it rainbow facts." And I looked at Rhee, and I said, "What do you mean, the
• 38:38
  olden days? Like, I don't know what rainbow facts is. That was never anything
• 38:42
  -I learnt. Like, this is-" -No.
• 38:43
  So- so now we're, like, two generations removed from what is-
• 38:47
  -Ah -... current teaching. It's like-
• 38:50
  -So we- -Not- not- not, like, to-
• 38:51
  ... we're the... We're, like, the olden olden days.
• 38:54
  We're- we're like the great-great-parents of the- this- whatever it was that we were
• 38:59
  -taught [laughs] 'cause that's- -Oh, that's hilarious.
• 39:00
  And it's not- not- not generations as in, like, my generation and my kids, but,
• 39:04
  like, generations of learning. These things seem to cycle every seven or eight
• 39:07
  -years. So, like, they did this. -Yeah.
• 39:08
  And that's... When I was in school, it was like, "This is the word, this is how you
• 39:12
  say it," and you just memorize that, and then you move onto the next thing.
• 39:14
  -That's right, yeah. -Whereas now, they give them the tools to,
• 39:17
  like, break down the sounds and recognize the patterns and all of this kind of
• 39:20
  stuff, so that you can give Eli a word that he's never seen before, and he can
• 39:24
  -sound out, and he breaks it down- -Break it out, yeah
• 39:26
  ... into the pieces, and he knows. Like, we gave him his birthday card
• 39:30
  this morning, and Rhee and I reach- each wrote a message in there, and- and I- he
• 39:34
  opens it, he goes, "Oh, that's a lot of words." I said, "Di- did you wanna read it
• 39:37
  yourself, or do you want me to help you out?" He goes, "No, I can read it myself.
• 39:39
  I can read it in my head." And just watching him and watching his head go and,
• 39:43
  like... And his little smile was when he read something that tickled him-
• 39:47
  -Oh, that's so funny. -... and it was just like, wow, you know?
• 39:51
  -He's a little human. -He's- he's a little human that can, like-
• 39:54
  -He's a little person. -Yeah.
• 39:55
  And then, like, every now and then, he, like, loses his marbles and throws
• 39:58
  something across the room and runs off screaming, so it's like... H- he gets all
• 40:02
  these... And it's funny 'cause they're like... You know, before it was like, "Ah,
• 40:05
  he's having a tantrum." Now it's like, "He's having a moment of dysregulation."
• 40:09
  -I'm like, "Okay, sure." -[laughs]
• 40:10
  -"Whatever. Whatever it is." -Ah.
• 40:13
  -Oh, that's true. -Okay.
• 40:15
  -Yeah, man. -So he takes himself to his bedroom now and
• 40:16
  -just calms himself down- -There you go
• 40:18
  ... which is nice 'cause before, it used to be just, like, flinging things across
• 40:21
  -the family room. -Progress.
• 40:22
  -I- I- and I- -We're making progress.
• 40:24
  There was fear for our television on a number of occasions.
• 40:27
  -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -[laughs] Don't throw anything towards the
• 40:29
  -TV, please. [laughs] -Yep. Yep. Well, that's- that's great,
• 40:33
  -dude. -Mm-hmm.
• 40:33
  And they- they just continue to get bigger. That's the crazy thing.
• 40:36
  -Uh-huh, yeah. -You got to see- you got to see Graham
• 40:37
  -before- before we started the show. -Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:40
  -He's- he's an adult, man. He's huge. -He looks like you, but he's huge, yeah.
• 40:43
  He's a blond Jake.
• 40:45
  He is. Yeah, and, I don't know, he's- he's got your face and so...
• 40:48
  But he's got your face. He- but he's got- he's got Laura's hair.
• 40:51
  Yeah, yeah. He's a better looking Jake Bennett, so...
• 40:53
  -[laughs] -I- he's- he's the kid I wanted to look
• 40:56
  like when I was a kid. I always wanted blonde hair. You know what I mean?
• 40:58
  -Mm-hmm. -To be athletic and, like, you know,
• 41:01
  -whatever. He's- he's that person. -[laughs]
• 41:03
  So anyway, he's a cool kid.
• 41:05
  Well, dude, I think I've got these other topics queued up for next time. We had
• 41:08
  -talked about- -Yeah
• 41:08
  ... really trying to have a little bit more continuity between the shows, so I'll
• 41:12
  tell you folks what we're looking at for next time. So, a couple items. Uh,
• 41:16
  defensive programming
• 41:18
  and anticipating breakages. Where am I going to miss? So I was watching... And
• 41:23
  because we're getting into g- golf, um, I was watching this clip. Tiger Woods was in
• 41:27
  the rough, and he's trying to hit onto the green, right? And so he's looking down
• 41:31
  the fairway, and he's like, "Okay, the..." So he's like, "I know this is kind
• 41:34
  of what I..." You know, "I know what club I need to hit to get there."
• 41:37
  But he's like, "Now I have to figure out when I'm... where I'm gonna aim." And he's
• 41:39
  like, "Because I'm hitting out of the rough, I'm not gonna be precise in where
• 41:42
  I'm gonna hit, so I have to pick where
• 41:45
  it's going to be least harmful when I miss. I have to pick my miss." Like, "If I
• 41:49
  miss on the right side, uh, there's bunkers over there. If I miss on the left
• 41:52
  side, I've got a wide open green. There's a little bit of rough over there, but it's
• 41:54
  gonna be a much better miss on that side." Right?
• 41:57
  -Mm-hmm. -So it's trying to anticipate, where in my
• 42:00
  programming do I want to miss? Where are the things where, like, if I'm going to
• 42:04
  mess up, if somebody's going to use this- abuse this thing, how do I wanna sort of,
• 42:08
  like, direct it so that the- the exception has the least damage to me-
• 42:12
  -Mm-hmm -... or to the- the business? So, um,
• 42:14
  you're never gonna get perfect, and you're never going to be able to anticipate all
• 42:18
  of the things that are gonna happen in your programming. It's just not.
• 42:20
  -Yeah. -And I'll share an example next time, where
• 42:22
  it's like, that is so freaking bizarre. How did you ever think that that was how
• 42:25
  -the tool was supposed to be used? -Mm-hmm.
• 42:26
  But I didn't think about, where is the miss?So what ended up happening is we
• 42:31
  deleted a bunch of stuff that was actually crucial, and ending up, we're gonna end
• 42:35
  up having to have two people redo a month worth of work, literally a month worth of
• 42:39
  work. It's brutal. It's brutal, because I did not think about
• 42:44
  this- this sort of, like, contingency plan. Anyway-
• 42:46
  -Mm-hmm -... we're gonna talk about that a little
• 42:47
  bit next time. And then, also, um, when you're not using a static site generator,
• 42:52
  you're using Laravel,
• 42:53
  where do you store values that you want to chuck into something where you have a
• 42:57
  bunch of pages that are the same,
• 43:01
  but need small variance? So is it a YAML file? Is it a database that then gets
• 43:06
  pushed down into static pages? Do you just put it into the view? Do you put it in
• 43:10
  the controller? Do you put it in the config? Where do you put it? Right?
• 43:13
  Um, do you generate DTOs that all have them and you just store it in your code?
• 43:16
  Where do you put it? So those are some things we'll talk about next time, and I
• 43:19
  have, uh,
• 43:20
  -some fun- fun ideas for that. So... -Nice.
• 43:24
  -I will also want- -Cue them up for next time, friends.
• 43:26
  Also a quick say it as well, I have just embarked upon deleting the tenancy package
• 43:30
  -from our application. -Ooh, yes.
• 43:32
  We have finally, we have finally moved all of the other pieces so that we don't need
• 43:37
  multiple tenants anymore. So it's now a process of step one was just to remove
• 43:42
  the- the package from Composer and then work through the tests and see what's
• 43:47
  breaking. So it's a, it's a slow-going thing. Um, someone will probably tell me I
• 43:51
  can use AI for it, which I, which I won't do.
• 43:53
  -There you go. Yeah. -But Duly noted. Um, yeah it's, it's, it's
• 43:56
  going all right.
• 43:58
  Having a better grasp of, like, parallel testing now and multiple database
• 44:01
  connections and just, like,
• 44:03
  making life easier for myself and also, like, hopefully improving the speed of our
• 44:08
  tests will be,
• 44:10
  um, a good side effect of doing this. So,
• 44:12
  yeah,
• 44:14
  -to be continued- -Rock on
• 44:14
  -... in future episodes. -To be continued. Well, folks, Episode 178.
• 44:19
  Is that right, Michael? Did I get it right?
• 44:21
  Hmm, I don't know. I wrote it up here. 177, I think.
• 44:25
  -177. -Ooh, 177. Folks, this is Episode 177. Find
• 44:29
  show notes for this episode at northmeetsouth.audio/177. Uh, if you'd
• 44:35
  like to hit us up on Twitter or on
• 44:38
  X or on BlueSky, hit us up at Michael Dyrynda, @jacobbennett, or at North South
• 44:42
  Audio. And of course, if you liked the show, we'd really appreciate it if you'd
• 44:45
  rate us up in your pod catcher of choice. Five stars would be incredible, amazing,
• 44:49
  and awesome.
• 44:50
  Thanks for tuning in, folks. We love hearing from you, honestly. Um, I would
• 44:54
  love to get any feedback on any of these items. Wistia, if you thought Wistia was a
• 44:58
  cool idea, you should definitely,
• 45:00
  um, let us know. What are your opinions on liquid glass and iPhones and the new- the
• 45:06
  -new designs- -Yeah
• 45:06
  ... that are coming out? And then, um,
• 45:10
  tune in next time to hear about some of those other cool things we'll talk about
• 45:13
  in two weeks. We'll see you then, folks. Bye-bye.
• 45:15
  Bye. [upbeat music plays]