Latest / NO FILTER / The Last Word With Lawrence O_Donnell - May 26 _ Audio Only(M4A_128K)

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The Last Word With Lawrence O_Donnell - May 26 _ Audio Only(M4A_128K) · NO FILTER

0:04
Speaker 1: Good Evening. This is a special holiday weekend edition of
0:07
Speaker 1: the Last Word. Russia defies Trump with largest ever drone
0:13
Speaker 1: and missile attack on Ukraine. That is the headline in
0:17
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal after Russia launched what Ukrainian officials
0:21
Speaker 1: said was the largest aerial assault on the country since
0:25
Speaker 1: the war began. More than three hundred and fifty drones
0:29
Speaker 1: and missiles bombarded dozens of Ukrainian cities, including the capital Kiev,
0:34
Speaker 1: last overnight Saturday, killing at least twelve people, including three children,
0:39
Speaker 1: according to Ukrainian officials. Donald Trump, who claimed he would
0:43
Speaker 1: end Russia's war against Ukraine on day one of his presidency,
0:49
Speaker 1: said this about Russian President Vladimir Putin yesterday.
0:54
Speaker 2: I'm not happy with what Putin's doing. He's killing a
0:57
Speaker 2: lot of people, and I don't know what the hell
0:59
Speaker 2: happened too. And I've known him a long time, always
1:02
Speaker 2: gotten along with him. But he's sending rockets into cities
1:05
Speaker 2: and killing people, and I don't like it at all. Okay,
1:10
Speaker 2: we're in the middle of talking and he's shooting rockets
1:12
Speaker 2: into Kiev and other cities. I don't like it at all.
1:17
Speaker 1: Of course, Vladimir Putin has been doing that every day
1:21
Speaker 1: since he sent Russian troops to invade Ukraine on February
1:25
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, and when Vladimir Putin started
1:29
Speaker 1: that war that day, Donald Trump said that Vladimir Putin
1:35
Speaker 1: is a genius. That's what Donald Trump said at the
1:38
Speaker 1: beginning of Vladimir Putin launching this war. Last night, Donald
1:42
Speaker 1: Trump posted on social media that Vladimir Putin quote has
1:47
Speaker 1: gone absolutely crazy. He is needlessly killing a lot of people.
1:51
Speaker 1: And I'm not just talking about soldiers. Missiles and drones
1:54
Speaker 1: are being shot into cities in Ukraine for no reason
1:59
Speaker 1: whatso ever. Again, Vladimir Putin has been doing that every
2:04
Speaker 1: day of his war. Russia has continued to escalate the
2:08
Speaker 1: attacks since Donald Trump has been commenting on them, according
2:11
Speaker 1: to the Kiev Independent, launching its third large scale aerial
2:16
Speaker 1: and drone assault against Ukraine and three nights, killing at
2:19
Speaker 1: least six people and injuring twenty four over the past
2:22
Speaker 1: twenty four hours and today, a Kremlin spokesperson said that
2:26
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's statements about Vladimir Putin's war are quote an
2:32
Speaker 1: emotional reaction due to quote emotional overload. Our first guest tonight,
2:40
Speaker 1: former Ambassadors to Russia, Michael McFall said on social media.
2:43
Speaker 1: Trump is always tough in words on social media, but
2:46
Speaker 1: he never follows through in actions, which makes him look weak.
2:51
Speaker 1: Joining us now is Michael McFall, former US Ambassador to Russia,
2:55
Speaker 1: an MSNBC International analyst and ambassador McFall to read Donald
3:00
Speaker 1: Trump saying Vladimir Putin is crazy, and he's crazy because
3:04
Speaker 1: he's killing a lot of people. This is something Donald
3:10
Speaker 1: Trump could have said every day since February of twenty
3:14
Speaker 1: twenty two, back when he was calling Vladimir Putin a
3:17
Speaker 1: genius for starting this war.
3:21
Speaker 3: Exactly, Lawrence, and I'm glad you're pointing that out. Putin's
3:24
Speaker 3: behavior has not changed at all. He's been acting like
3:28
Speaker 3: this from the beginning of the war, slaughtering civilians, kidnapping Ukrainians,
3:33
Speaker 3: launching these massive attacks against civilian sites. And I'm glad
3:38
Speaker 3: that the President has finally acknowledged it and observes it.
3:42
Speaker 3: I hope it will compel him to change his strategy,
3:46
Speaker 3: because his strategy of negotiating, of trying to end this war,
3:49
Speaker 3: which I applaud by the way, I'm glad he's trying,
3:51
Speaker 3: but to just appease Putin and give him everything he
3:54
Speaker 3: wants and put pressure on the Ukrainians has not achieved
3:58
Speaker 3: any results. Contrary, I actually think now the Russians are
4:03
Speaker 3: mocking the president of the United States.
4:07
Speaker 1: Why do you think, with your knowledge of Vladimir Putin
4:11
Speaker 1: and your study of him, why do you think Putin
4:13
Speaker 1: is deciding to do this and in effect, at least
4:17
Speaker 1: on social media, at least for a day, turn Donald
4:20
Speaker 1: Trump against him.
4:24
Speaker 3: You know, President Trump, as he said in that tweet,
4:27
Speaker 3: that comment, I've always had a good relationship with Vladimir Putsin.
4:31
Speaker 3: I think it's important to remember that Putin's never thought
4:34
Speaker 3: that about President Trump. When people try to appease him,
4:37
Speaker 3: when they treat him and they praise him, he sees
4:40
Speaker 3: that as signs of weakness, not strength. And I would
4:44
Speaker 3: say that's true with all leaders for the last twenty
4:46
Speaker 3: five years. And so now he's just calling his bluff.
4:50
Speaker 3: He's like, you're a tough guy on social media, you
4:52
Speaker 3: won't do anything. And I think his calculation is President
4:56
Speaker 3: Trump will eventually walk away, he'll stop providing assistance to Ukraine.
5:01
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what Vladimir Putin wants, because he wants
5:04
Speaker 3: to continue this war. I don't think he's really interested
5:08
Speaker 3: in negotiating an end to this war.
5:11
Speaker 1: And it seems that the Trump walking away version of
5:15
Speaker 1: this is to in effect claim he tried, but he'll
5:21
Speaker 1: maybe say something along the lines of both sides don't
5:24
Speaker 1: want peace, there's nothing I can do, and then turn
5:28
Speaker 1: his back and maybe somewhere in there claim some kind
5:30
Speaker 1: of victory, because he always.
5:31
Speaker 3: Does yes tragically. I think that's true. And the second
5:36
Speaker 3: point you just make is very important. He couldn't resist, right,
5:39
Speaker 3: He had to take a shot at President Zelensky in
5:42
Speaker 3: that same statement, So he'll blame both sides.
5:44
Speaker 1: And walk away.
5:46
Speaker 3: But I want to underscore this is not in America's
5:49
Speaker 3: national interest to have a president of the United States
5:52
Speaker 3: behaving this way, because if we walk away and we
5:55
Speaker 3: don't achieve the objectives he promised, it's just not bad
5:58
Speaker 3: for Ukraine. It's bad for security and all of Europe.
6:02
Speaker 3: It makes everybody have to worry about our commitment, and
6:05
Speaker 3: it's bad in Asia. I was just in Taiwan a
6:07
Speaker 3: couple months ago, and let me tell you, the people
6:10
Speaker 3: on the island of Taiwan are watching very closely because
6:14
Speaker 3: if we abandon Ukraine today, what's to say, we won't
6:17
Speaker 3: abandon other friends, allies and partners tomorrow.
6:21
Speaker 1: And going forward as you see it, militarily, Can the
6:27
Speaker 1: Europeans help support Ukraine enough without the kind of support
6:33
Speaker 1: the United States has been delivering.
6:37
Speaker 3: Well, they will and they should, and I think most certainly,
6:41
Speaker 3: especially with the production inside Ukraine, especially of drones, they'll
6:46
Speaker 3: be able to hold on. But there are certain kinds
6:49
Speaker 3: of weapons systems high mars attackers in particular, that the
6:52
Speaker 3: Ukrainian armed forces need, and we're the only country in
6:55
Speaker 3: the world that has them right now. So if we
6:57
Speaker 3: do withdraw that will have very negative consequences for the
7:02
Speaker 3: armed forces of Ukraine.
7:04
Speaker 1: What is your reading of how President Zelenski has been
7:07
Speaker 1: handling the unfolding of these events since his time in
7:13
Speaker 1: the Oval office that deliberately went badly because of Donald
7:17
Speaker 1: Trump and JD. Vance trying to make it go badly.
7:22
Speaker 3: I think he's doing a very admirable job, Lawrence. I mean,
7:25
Speaker 3: he met with the President without any cameras, without the
7:28
Speaker 3: Vice President there in Italy. That meeting seemed to go
7:32
Speaker 3: very well. His team with Secretary Vessent signed the minerals deal.
7:37
Speaker 3: I think that was a win for the United States
7:38
Speaker 3: win for Ukraine. When President Trump said there should be
7:41
Speaker 3: a thirty day unconditional cease fire, President Zelenski immediately jumped
7:46
Speaker 3: and said I'm ready to do it. And when President
7:49
Speaker 3: Putin then said, well we need direct talks, President Zelenski
7:53
Speaker 3: called his bluff and flew to Turkey.
7:56
Speaker 4: So I think he's.
7:57
Speaker 3: Doing everything he can, and therefore I hope that the
8:00
Speaker 3: President will reconsider this idea of just walking away from
8:04
Speaker 3: the Ukrainians, because that, I think sends a very bad
8:08
Speaker 3: signal about our credibility. And I also just think it's
8:11
Speaker 3: the wrong thing to do. There is good and evil
8:14
Speaker 3: in this war. It's not both sides are at fault.
8:17
Speaker 3: One side is a democratic country, the other side is
8:20
Speaker 3: a dictatorship. The United States of America should be on
8:23
Speaker 3: the side of good, on the side of democracy.
8:28
Speaker 1: Ambassador Michael McFall, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
8:31
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. And coming up inside the Republican
8:36
Speaker 1: budget bill that was passed by the House Representatives by
8:39
Speaker 1: only one vote, is a provision that's gotten very little
8:43
Speaker 1: noticed that targets the authority of federal judges. That's next
8:57
Speaker 1: the Republican budget Bill, which includes more than seven hundred
9:00
Speaker 1: billion dollars in Medicaid cuts and five hundred billion dollars
9:04
Speaker 1: in Medicare cuts, and nearly four trillion dollars in tax cuts,
9:09
Speaker 1: mostly for very rich people, passed the House by one vote.
9:14
Speaker 1: Last week. No Democratic House members voted for the bill,
9:18
Speaker 1: and today Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer said there will
9:21
Speaker 1: be no Democratic votes in the Senate for that same bill,
9:26
Speaker 1: which means the Republicans can afford to lose only three
9:30
Speaker 1: Republican senators votes and still pass that bill. Yesterday, Republican
9:36
Speaker 1: Senator Ron Johnson said he doesn't think there are enough
9:39
Speaker 1: Republican votes in the Senate to pass the bill.
9:43
Speaker 5: I think we have enough to stop the process until
9:45
Speaker 5: the President gets serious about the spending reduction and reducing
9:48
Speaker 5: the death sit.
9:51
Speaker 1: Senator Ran Paul said he won't support the bill as
9:54
Speaker 1: currently written.
9:57
Speaker 6: I can't vote to raise a dent ceiling five trillion.
9:59
Speaker 6: There's got to be someone Washington who thinks debt is
10:02
Speaker 6: wrong and deficits are wrong and once to go in
10:04
Speaker 6: the other direction, somebody has to stand up and yell.
10:07
Speaker 6: The emperor has no clothes and everybody's falling in lockstep
10:11
Speaker 6: on this pass the big beautiful bill, Don't question Anything.
10:17
Speaker 1: The New York Times reports that House Republicans slipped the
10:20
Speaker 1: provision into their bill, which, if enacted, would limit federal
10:25
Speaker 1: court's authority to hold Donald Trump in contempt. Quote. The
10:30
Speaker 1: sprawling Domestic Policy bill Republicans pushed through the House on
10:33
Speaker 1: Thursday would limit the power of federal judges to hold
10:36
Speaker 1: people in contempt, potentially shielding President Trump and members of
10:40
Speaker 1: his administration from the consequences of violating court orders. The
10:45
Speaker 1: provision would apply retroactively to court orders that were made
10:49
Speaker 1: before it was enacted, including ongoing cases where federal judges
10:54
Speaker 1: are weighing whether to hold Trump administration officials in contempt
10:59
Speaker 1: over to porting immigrants. Federal court cases have issued at
11:04
Speaker 1: least twenty five nationwide injunctions against Donald Trump, according to
11:08
Speaker 1: the Congressional Research Service. On May fifteenth, the Supreme Court
11:11
Speaker 1: heard arguments in three cases that currently prevent Donald Trump
11:16
Speaker 1: from denying citizenship to American born babies. At seven twenty
11:21
Speaker 1: two am today, Donald Trump proved once again why he
11:25
Speaker 1: is unworthy to be president of the United States by
11:29
Speaker 1: posting on Memorial Day this poison on social media. Happy
11:37
Speaker 1: Memorial Day to all, including the scum that spent the
11:42
Speaker 1: last four years trying to destroy our country through warped
11:45
Speaker 1: radical left minds, all protected by these USA hating judges
11:52
Speaker 1: who suffer from an ideology that is sick and very
11:56
Speaker 1: dangerous for our country. Hopefully, the United States Supreme Court
12:00
Speaker 1: and other good and compassionate judges throughout the land will
12:04
Speaker 1: save us from the decisions of the monsters who want
12:09
Speaker 1: our country to go to hell. Joining us now is
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Speaker 1: Democratic Countsman Zoe Lofgren, California. She's a member of the
12:16
Speaker 1: House Judiciary Committee and served on the January sixth Selected Committee.
12:20
Speaker 1: Christman Loughcren, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
12:23
Speaker 1: And when I see those words of USA hating judges,
12:27
Speaker 1: that sort of thing from Donald Trump, and you think
12:29
Speaker 1: back to Richard Nixon, who was literally driven out of
12:33
Speaker 1: the presidency by the United States Supreme Court unanimously ruling
12:36
Speaker 1: against him. Richard Nixon never once dreamed of using language
12:42
Speaker 1: like that to apply to any federal judges.
12:47
Speaker 7: Well, let's be Frank Lawrence.
12:49
Speaker 8: If a member of our family approaching eighty years of
12:52
Speaker 8: age posted that after midnight in all caps, our family
12:58
Speaker 8: would be trying to do an intervention and get some
13:00
Speaker 8: medical help to see if this person was suffering from dementia.
13:05
Speaker 8: Books really unhinged. But on the merits of what's happening,
13:10
Speaker 8: I'm very disappointed, unfortunately not surprised that the Republicans are
13:16
Speaker 8: trying to take judicial power away from the judiciary. I mean,
13:22
Speaker 8: Article three fully vests the judicial power of the United
13:26
Speaker 8: States in the courts. They have full power over all cases.
13:32
Speaker 7: In law and equity.
13:34
Speaker 8: And you know, we went through this in the Judiciary Committee.
13:37
Speaker 8: To try and retroactively remove the authority to enforce your
13:43
Speaker 8: rulings is unprecedented and really contrary to upholding the rule
13:50
Speaker 8: of law. You know, earlier today I was at some
13:53
Speaker 8: Memorial Day services and one of the things I said was,
13:57
Speaker 8: you know, those who we honor ran towards gunfire, and
14:03
Speaker 8: they gave everything for our freedom. We're not asking those
14:08
Speaker 8: of us today to run into a barrage of machine
14:11
Speaker 8: gun fire. We're just asking people to stand up for
14:14
Speaker 8: the rule of law and for the Constitution and to
14:18
Speaker 8: preserve our democracy. And that those remarks were well received
14:22
Speaker 8: this morning.
14:23
Speaker 1: What would it mean to the country if this provision
14:26
Speaker 1: restricting the authority of federal judges were to become law.
14:32
Speaker 8: Well, as we discussed in the Judiciary Committee, judges have
14:36
Speaker 8: the authority to set what the bond would be. They
14:39
Speaker 8: could set the bond at one dollar, and you could
14:42
Speaker 8: raise that by spare changing it outside the courthouse. The
14:47
Speaker 8: real pernicious aspect of this is it's to apply retroactively
14:52
Speaker 8: before judges asked for a one dollar bond in the
14:56
Speaker 8: effort to prevent the Trump administration from being held accountable
15:01
Speaker 8: not only for violating the law, but for violating court orders,
15:05
Speaker 8: which several courts are under way. It looks to me
15:09
Speaker 8: like finding and there's really no need. I mean, for
15:11
Speaker 8: an injunction to be issued, a court has to find
15:15
Speaker 8: that the petitioner has a likelihood of prevailing a file
15:20
Speaker 8: and that they will suffer irreparable harm. So it's not
15:24
Speaker 8: as if you know, this is willing nilly, you know,
15:27
Speaker 8: a casual thing for a judge to do. The whole
15:31
Speaker 8: intent of this is to save Donald Trump's administration from
15:35
Speaker 8: being held accountable for violating court orders that have already occurred,
15:41
Speaker 8: and it's really despicable.
15:43
Speaker 1: Really, Representative Zoe Lufgren, thank you very much for joining us.
15:48
Speaker 7: Thank you.
15:50
Speaker 1: And jourining. Our discussion now is congressional historian Norm Ornstein.
15:54
Speaker 1: He is an Emeritis scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
15:57
Speaker 1: And Norm and this is a Memorial Day. You have
16:01
Speaker 1: read so many presidential declarations on Memorial Day. Donald Trump
16:08
Speaker 1: issues one and he talks about scum. And he's talking
16:11
Speaker 1: about when he does that, he's talking about federal judges.
16:14
Speaker 1: He's talking about anyone who voted against him. He's talking
16:16
Speaker 1: about every Democratic member of Congress, every Democrat governor in
16:22
Speaker 1: the country. That's what he's deciding to address. And that's
16:28
Speaker 1: the way he wants to talk about people in this
16:30
Speaker 1: country on Memorial Day.
16:33
Speaker 7: It's what a narcissistic sociopath would do. Lawrence.
16:36
Speaker 5: And let's remember that the day before, he gave a
16:39
Speaker 5: commencement address at West Point, our emerging military leaders that
16:43
Speaker 5: itself was unhinged, wore his campaign hat and then left
16:48
Speaker 5: before doing what every other president has done when they've
16:51
Speaker 5: given that address, which is to shake the hands of
16:54
Speaker 5: the people who are graduating from West Point. He said,
16:58
Speaker 5: I have to deal with in Russia and then went
17:01
Speaker 5: off to play golf. So the contempt that the commander
17:04
Speaker 5: in chief we now have has for our fallen heroes
17:10
Speaker 5: and for emerging military leaders is sickening. Let's also note, Lawrence,
17:16
Speaker 5: that this provision that you were just talking about with
17:19
Speaker 5: Zoelofgren does not in any way fit under the rules
17:23
Speaker 5: of reconciliation, something you know well from having wort with
17:26
Speaker 5: it over many years in the Senate. But I wouldn't
17:29
Speaker 5: be surprised if somehow some version of this bill goes
17:32
Speaker 5: through that the Senate Republicans will basically bypass the parliamentarian
17:38
Speaker 5: who will tell them flatly, no, you can't do this,
17:40
Speaker 5: to try and make it happen, and hamstring the judiciary
17:43
Speaker 5: from holding any of the Trump people, including lawyers who
17:47
Speaker 5: are flouting Judge's orders in contempt. You know, we're dealing
17:52
Speaker 5: with a hostile takeover of the government by somebody who
17:56
Speaker 5: doesn't like our own military, but who also loves what
18:02
Speaker 5: other dictators are doing. And then we can get to
18:05
Speaker 5: the substance of this horrific, big, beautiful bill.
18:10
Speaker 1: I want to go back to that first note you
18:12
Speaker 1: struck about the mental capacity of the current president of
18:17
Speaker 1: the United States, which is on display every day as
18:21
Speaker 1: completely inadequate for the presidency on any level, be it
18:25
Speaker 1: intelligence or knowledge, or emotional stability or even appreciation of
18:33
Speaker 1: very fundamental things about what it means to be American
18:36
Speaker 1: that is relentlessly on display, NonStop. At the same time,
18:40
Speaker 1: when some people want to just keep the focus on
18:44
Speaker 1: Joe Biden and what condition was he in in the
18:47
Speaker 1: final year of his presidency, when Joe Biden never ever
18:52
Speaker 1: ever said anything like what Donald Trump just said today,
18:56
Speaker 1: what Donald Trump says every day, and no one has
18:59
Speaker 1: pointed out a single presidential decision that Joe Biden got
19:04
Speaker 1: wrong somehow because of mental capacity Donald Trump, we're seeing
19:09
Speaker 1: as just the scenior described yesterday at West Point is
19:13
Speaker 1: something where anyone would question the mental health, the mental
19:18
Speaker 1: capacity of that person, you.
19:20
Speaker 7: Know, sadly, Lawrence, our mainstream press continue to normalize the
19:25
Speaker 7: abnormal and treat Trump as if he were a standard president,
19:29
Speaker 7: maybe you know, sometimes deviating. They we will see good
19:33
Speaker 7: investigative articles, often very good op ads, but then we'll
19:38
Speaker 7: see headlines about speeches like he gave at West Point,
19:42
Speaker 7: completely unhinged, treated as if they are reasonable speeches.
19:47
Speaker 5: And this focus on Biden, I believe, with a press
19:51
Speaker 5: corps giving out medals to those writing books about Biden's capacity, saying, see,
19:56
Speaker 5: they're the ones responsible for what's happened here, and why
19:59
Speaker 5: we have Trump without even reflecting on their own culpability
20:04
Speaker 5: for not holding a truly unhinged president accountable is a
20:11
Speaker 5: serious part of the problem.
20:13
Speaker 7: I would also note, Lawrence, that the other.
20:15
Speaker 5: Day Trump signed a slew of elect executive orders, and
20:19
Speaker 5: it was clear he had no clue what these did
20:22
Speaker 5: or what was in them. The presidency is being run,
20:26
Speaker 5: for the most part, the domestic part of the presidency,
20:29
Speaker 5: by Elon Musk, and particularly by Russell Vatt, the head
20:33
Speaker 5: of the Office of Management Budget, who stayed out of
20:36
Speaker 5: the headlines, but who was the architect of Project twenty
20:40
Speaker 5: twenty five. And that's now what's governing our domestic policy
20:44
Speaker 5: while this guy natters on.
20:46
Speaker 7: And issues unhinged true social or with speeches that he gives.
20:54
Speaker 7: Note also, Lawrence, that they've taken down all of the transcripts,
20:58
Speaker 7: virtually all of them what Trump has said officially or unofficially,
21:03
Speaker 7: because they know if people look at those it will
21:05
Speaker 7: become very clear what the mental situation and capacity of
21:11
Speaker 7: Donald Trump is. They're covering up for him in a
21:14
Speaker 7: way that makes what Joe Biden did look like jaywalking
21:18
Speaker 7: compared to hit and run.
21:21
Speaker 1: Norm Ornstein thank you very much for joining us. Really
21:23
Speaker 1: appreciate it, you bet.
21:25
Speaker 4: Lauren's good to see you coming out.
21:27
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is escalating his attack on America's oldest and
21:31
Speaker 1: most distinguished university every day. Harvard law professor Lawrence Tribe
21:36
Speaker 1: will join us next to respond to Donald Trump's latest
21:39
Speaker 1: attack on social media against Harvard this morning. This morning,
21:51
Speaker 1: on social media, Donald Trump once again attacked the oldest
21:55
Speaker 1: university in America, saying, we are still waiting for the
21:59
Speaker 1: foreign student lists from Harvard so that we can determine,
22:04
Speaker 1: after a ridiculous expenditure of billions of dollars, how many
22:08
Speaker 1: radicalized lunatics, troublemakers all should not be let back into
22:13
Speaker 1: our country. Harvard is very slow in the presentation of
22:17
Speaker 1: these documents, and probably for good reason. The best thing
22:21
Speaker 1: Harvard has going for it is that they have shopped
22:23
Speaker 1: around and found the absolute best judge for them, but
22:27
Speaker 1: have no fear the government will in the end. When
22:31
Speaker 1: I am considering taking three billion dollars of grant money
22:34
Speaker 1: away from a very antisemitic Harvard and giving it to
22:39
Speaker 1: trade schools all across our land, what a great investment
22:43
Speaker 1: that would be for the USA, And so badly needed
22:46
Speaker 1: churning our discussion. Now is Professor Lawrence Tribe, who has
22:49
Speaker 1: taught constitutional law at Harvard Law School for five decades.
22:53
Speaker 1: Professor Tribe, what is your response to Donald Trump's latest attack.
22:59
Speaker 9: Well, it's real hard learns to know where to begin.
23:02
Speaker 9: He's obviously unhinged. He has no idea what he's talking about.
23:06
Speaker 9: He just thinks that slinging around frankly bs about the
23:13
Speaker 9: people at Harvard and other institutions will somehow substitute for
23:19
Speaker 9: taking the law into account. He has been throwing everything
23:24
Speaker 9: he can at Harvard, and courts have put a stop
23:27
Speaker 9: to it. There was no judge shopping the.
23:33
Speaker 4: District court.
23:36
Speaker 9: That happens to have the other Harvard case, The Federal
23:40
Speaker 9: District Court in Boston, with a very capable judge, Allison Burrows,
23:50
Speaker 9: obviously has this case.
23:51
Speaker 4: It's closely related.
23:53
Speaker 9: This case involves Trump's attempt to tell Harvard that it
23:59
Speaker 9: can no longer host foreign students.
24:02
Speaker 4: Now, that's crazy. There's no legal basis for it.
24:05
Speaker 9: He's talking about information that he would like about students.
24:09
Speaker 9: He wants to know details about what they say, what
24:13
Speaker 9: they think. That's a violation of the First Amendment. But
24:18
Speaker 9: put it in perspective. Harvard is going to admit about
24:22
Speaker 9: twenty five thousand new students. They're entering in four months.
24:28
Speaker 9: Eighteen thousand of them are Americans. Those eighteen thousand eagerly
24:34
Speaker 9: await something like seven thousand foreign students. Trump is trying
24:40
Speaker 9: to basically frighten into throwing away their hard thought, well
24:47
Speaker 9: earned admission letter, a letter that tells them they are
24:51
Speaker 9: the best of the brightest from around the world. And
24:54
Speaker 9: he's doing that by threatening, with no legal basis, Harvard's
24:59
Speaker 9: right to admit them. There's a program called the Student
25:03
Speaker 9: Exchange Visitor Program.
25:05
Speaker 4: For seventy years.
25:07
Speaker 9: Harvard has been admitting the most brilliant students and scholars
25:11
Speaker 9: from around the world. They are welcomed not only by
25:16
Speaker 9: Harvard but by the United States because what they learn,
25:21
Speaker 9: what they discover, benefits the country, benefits the country, and
25:26
Speaker 9: benefits the health and welfare of all Americans. We used
25:33
Speaker 9: to have a program, it was called Operation paper Clip,
25:36
Speaker 9: to attract the most brilliant students from the countries we
25:41
Speaker 9: defeated in World War Two. Many of the people who
25:46
Speaker 9: came to this country, like Albert Einstein, made this a
25:50
Speaker 9: mecca of discovery and learning. But obviously, this is a
25:55
Speaker 9: president who hates intellect, who despises the symbol of excellence
26:05
Speaker 9: in the world of higher education around the world. He
26:10
Speaker 9: thinks he can score points by attacking Harvard. But I
26:13
Speaker 9: have a message, and it's a message that I wouldn't
26:16
Speaker 9: bother delivering to him. I don't know that he'd understand it,
26:20
Speaker 9: but a message to those seven students. There are seven
26:23
Speaker 9: thousand students that he's trying to frighten. A way, don't
26:28
Speaker 9: be scared. This guy is a paper tiger. He's a
26:33
Speaker 9: tin horn tyrant. In the month of May, there were
26:38
Speaker 9: all kinds of cases across the country judges appointed by
26:42
Speaker 9: Republicans and Democrats involving Donald Trump and his megalomaniac attacks
26:49
Speaker 9: on all of our institutions. And you know what his
26:52
Speaker 9: record was, He lost over ninety five percent of them.
26:59
Speaker 9: Just a couple of hours after his lawless and savage
27:05
Speaker 9: claim that he was going to shut down Harvard as
27:08
Speaker 9: a host for foreign students. Just a couple of hours
27:11
Speaker 9: after that, of course, Judge Burrows entered a temporary restraining order.
27:18
Speaker 4: She's going to hold a hearing this Thursday.
27:21
Speaker 9: I will be interested in hearing what in the world
27:26
Speaker 9: Harvard will confront what in the world. Trump's lawyers can
27:32
Speaker 9: possibly argue. There is no law that justifies what they're
27:36
Speaker 9: trying to do. And their attempt to retaliate against Harvard
27:42
Speaker 9: for not turning over all kinds of information to which
27:45
Speaker 9: they have no right in violation of the privacy of
27:49
Speaker 9: these students, retaliating against Harvard for having a curriculum that
27:54
Speaker 9: this president doesn't like, not that he understands it. Retaliation
28:01
Speaker 9: is flagrantly and flatly unconstitutional, among other things. Picking out
28:07
Speaker 9: my name a particular institution is what the framers of
28:12
Speaker 9: our Constitution called a bill of a tainer. He is
28:16
Speaker 9: trying to basically destroy a particular institution, and then he'll
28:22
Speaker 9: turn to others. But right now he's named one and
28:27
Speaker 9: seven thousand identifiable students who've been admitted. He knows their names.
28:31
Speaker 9: It's not a secret. They have admission letters. He's trying
28:36
Speaker 9: to target all of these people for retaliation. So if
28:41
Speaker 9: you want to know what my answer is, my answer
28:43
Speaker 9: is see you in court, mister president.
28:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. This demand he makes today, he says he's waiting
28:52
Speaker 1: for the foreign student lists from Harvard. All of their
28:57
Speaker 1: visas are granted by the state Department, every one of them.
29:01
Speaker 1: The State Department knows every single student visa that has issued,
29:06
Speaker 1: and so part of the madness that he spews just
29:10
Speaker 1: includes stuff like that that is not doesn't require some
29:17
Speaker 1: kind of special discovery from Harvard or from any institutions.
29:23
Speaker 4: Right. In fact, I mean that's the story of this
29:25
Speaker 4: whole case.
29:26
Speaker 9: He keeps coming up with crazy demands, either for information
29:30
Speaker 9: he already has or for information he has no right
29:34
Speaker 9: to have. He wants to know what the basically, if
29:39
Speaker 9: you read closely, what he's asking for, he basically wants
29:43
Speaker 9: to know what these students are going to read. He
29:46
Speaker 9: would love to know what they're going to say, what
29:48
Speaker 9: they're going to think. He wants to be confident that
29:51
Speaker 9: they won't join any protests against Israel's.
29:56
Speaker 4: War in Gaza.
29:59
Speaker 9: It's all an attempt to take over the intellectual underpinnings
30:07
Speaker 9: of a private university, and anybody who isn't connected to
30:12
Speaker 9: Harvard shouldn't feel confident that they won't be next. The
30:18
Speaker 9: one thing we have going for us is the law.
30:21
Speaker 9: And what is clear is that federal courts, regardless of
30:25
Speaker 9: who appointed them, have some fidelity to the law. They
30:29
Speaker 9: actually care about it, and they have been successful very
30:33
Speaker 9: quickly in telling Trump to stop. Now it is true
30:38
Speaker 9: that no member of the Trump administration has yet been
30:42
Speaker 9: held in contempt, Well, just wait, proceedings are underway. Contempt
30:49
Speaker 9: findings and criminal contempt findings are not at all unlikely,
30:54
Speaker 9: And the only reason that's taking time is that our
30:57
Speaker 9: judges are trying very hard to make absolutely sure that
31:02
Speaker 9: they dot every I, cross every T and that their
31:05
Speaker 9: contempt adjudications will be upheld. Then Trump is likely You say, well,
31:12
Speaker 9: they've been held in contempt, but I'm going to pardon them. Well,
31:16
Speaker 9: the pardon power doesn't really extend to contempt of court
31:21
Speaker 9: when it's criminal contempt inherent in the court's own power.
31:26
Speaker 9: He likes to pardon people if they are on his
31:30
Speaker 9: side and if they engage in violence.
31:35
Speaker 4: But that isn't going to help here.
31:37
Speaker 9: So clearly it's not a situation in which students ought
31:41
Speaker 9: to be scared.
31:42
Speaker 4: Although it's hard to blame them, you know, it's.
31:45
Speaker 9: Not so hard for me, somebody who was born to
31:49
Speaker 9: Russian Jewish refugees in war torn Shanghai, who was welcome
31:55
Speaker 9: to this country at.
31:56
Speaker 4: The end of World War two.
31:58
Speaker 9: To honor the people who sacrifice their lives so we could.
32:03
Speaker 4: Enjoy the fruits of freedom. And it's pretty.
32:06
Speaker 9: Easy for me to see Memorial Day as an occasion
32:09
Speaker 9: to stand up to somebody like this tyrant. It's harder
32:13
Speaker 9: for lots of foreign students who face these threats and wonder,
32:18
Speaker 9: am I safe? But the siren of safety and succumbing
32:23
Speaker 9: to lawless power is really illusory. If you give up
32:29
Speaker 9: in advance, that's when you're not safe. But trust me,
32:34
Speaker 9: Harvard has your back because you are crucial to us
32:38
Speaker 9: and to our survival. The intellect that you bring to
32:44
Speaker 9: Harvard and to the country is something we value and need.
32:49
Speaker 9: So we're on your side, and America's judges have your
32:54
Speaker 9: back because you're prevailing over Trump in this law war
33:00
Speaker 9: he is waging on the mind is vital to our
33:05
Speaker 9: courts and their survival as keepers of the flame of
33:11
Speaker 9: the rule of law. So, yes, you've got an enemy
33:15
Speaker 9: in this deranged Donald Trump, but you've got millions of
33:20
Speaker 9: friends and they will support you. That's why I think
33:25
Speaker 9: that the threats that this deranged president is making in
33:30
Speaker 9: these ludicrous tweets should not be taken seriously. Although the
33:36
Speaker 9: threat he poses to the country is as serious as.
33:41
Speaker 1: Hell Harvard Law professor Lawrence Tribe, thank you very much
33:46
Speaker 1: for taking the time to join us today. Really appreciate it.
33:49
Speaker 4: Thank you, Lawrence.
33:50
Speaker 1: Okay. Coming up new reporting from Michigan about how the
33:54
Speaker 1: Trump tariffs are actually threatening American industry's next The New
34:07
Speaker 1: York Times is reporting today on how the Trump tariffs
34:11
Speaker 1: and the Trump Republican budget bill are harming the emerging
34:15
Speaker 1: American battery industry. The New York Times reports from Holland, Michigan.
34:20
Speaker 1: Domestic factories that make batteries to store power to meet
34:24
Speaker 1: America's rising energy demand depend on Chinese components and federal subsidies.
34:29
Speaker 1: For President Trump's tariffs on China may knock this fledgling
34:33
Speaker 1: industry off course. Another threat is brewing in Congress, where
34:36
Speaker 1: House Republicans, with mister Trump's blessing, have passed a budget
34:40
Speaker 1: bill that analysts say would drastically restrict access to subsidies
34:45
Speaker 1: for making and using rechargeable batteries. According to one Bloomberg analyst,
34:52
Speaker 1: if the Republican budget bill took effect in its current form,
34:55
Speaker 1: it would be something of a kill switch for the
34:58
Speaker 1: tax credits available from making batteries. It also would quickly
35:02
Speaker 1: end tax credits for installing them on the grid. Former
35:06
Speaker 1: Democratic Speaker of the Michigan House Representatives Joe Tate has
35:10
Speaker 1: announced his run for Michigan's the Senate seat in Michigan
35:14
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six with an ad against the Trump agenda.
35:20
Speaker 10: Washington has broken faith with us. Instead of creating opportunity
35:24
Speaker 10: for all, Donald Trump and the Republicans are cutting taxes
35:27
Speaker 10: for the wealthy, and they're betraying our senior citizens, our children,
35:32
Speaker 10: and my fellow veterans. To do it on the battlefield
35:36
Speaker 10: and on the football field. I never back down from
35:38
Speaker 10: a fight. My Michigan story begins with the foundation's my grandpa,
35:42
Speaker 10: Joe Wade. I'm running for US Senate to lay a
35:45
Speaker 10: foundation for the next generation of michiganers, one strong enough
35:49
Speaker 10: to protect the promise Michigan holds for every family.
35:53
Speaker 1: Let's get to word jerious. Now is Democratic Michigan State
35:59
Speaker 1: Representative Joe Tait. He's now a candidate for United States
36:03
Speaker 1: Senate in Michigan. Thank you very much for joining us.
36:07
Speaker 1: This new reporting from the New York Times about what
36:09
Speaker 1: the Trump tariffs the Trump budget is doing to a
36:12
Speaker 1: Michigan industry. This industry could that is obviously hugely important
36:17
Speaker 1: for the future rechargeable batteries. Is that being becoming broadly
36:24
Speaker 1: understood in Michigan. How these tariffs are not actually protective
36:29
Speaker 1: of industries the way Donald Trump says they are.
36:35
Speaker 10: Well, thanks for having me on your show, Lawrence. Before
36:37
Speaker 10: I jump into your question, I hope your viewers have
36:41
Speaker 10: had a chance just to reflect on the service members
36:45
Speaker 10: that lost their lives in the military. You know, in
36:48
Speaker 10: the state of Michigan, we have over four hundred thousand
36:51
Speaker 10: veterans that live here in this state. As an American
36:55
Speaker 10: and Marine veteran, I'm incredibly grateful for their sack devices
37:00
Speaker 10: and protecting our freedom and self governance. To answer your question,
37:05
Speaker 10: is it's getting there because what we're seeing now, Frankly,
37:10
Speaker 10: a lot of Michiganders are seeing that Trump's tariffs are
37:14
Speaker 10: simply attacks on Michiganders, and the chaos is being created
37:20
Speaker 10: and being seen on the ground already. We're seeing companies
37:24
Speaker 10: like General Motors who are losing stand to lose billions
37:29
Speaker 10: of dollars in revenue, which that cascades down to profit
37:33
Speaker 10: sharing for workers. We're also seeing investments that the state
37:39
Speaker 10: of Michigan. When I was speaker, we made those investments,
37:43
Speaker 10: whether it was in Detroit or Marshall or Lancing for
37:48
Speaker 10: this battery technology. We're seeing pauses on that. We're seeing
37:53
Speaker 10: the private sector not wanting to do that because of
37:56
Speaker 10: the chaos that Trump is creating. And lastly, you know,
38:00
Speaker 10: he broke his promise when it came to tears. He
38:03
Speaker 10: say he will lower costs at the beginning of his presidency,
38:08
Speaker 10: and frankly, prices are continuing to rise nationally and that
38:13
Speaker 10: is also impacting these investments that companies have been making
38:18
Speaker 10: into this new battery technology.
38:22
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your service in the Marine Corps,
38:25
Speaker 1: and thank you very much for reminding us all what
38:27
Speaker 1: this day is actually all about. I'm very grateful that
38:32
Speaker 1: you did this. And as you go forward in your campaign,
38:37
Speaker 1: what are the are there issues that are local to
38:40
Speaker 1: Michigan that in a Senate campaign there that we wouldn't
38:43
Speaker 1: be focusing on at the national level.
38:49
Speaker 10: What we're seeing from Michiganders, I think first and foremost
38:54
Speaker 10: is the issue of cost of living. We are seeing
38:58
Speaker 10: Michiganders that have built foundations for themselves and their children,
39:05
Speaker 10: and we're seeing that Donald Trump is the primary threat
39:09
Speaker 10: to that with taris in the economy, trying to tear
39:12
Speaker 10: down those foundations. We know that we are losing that
39:18
Speaker 10: Michiganders are losing money, They're having a harder time putting
39:21
Speaker 10: food on the table, and they're having a harder time
39:25
Speaker 10: with job opportunities because of what is going on and
39:29
Speaker 10: what is taking place in this economy. And I would say,
39:33
Speaker 10: if I could sum it up in just one statement,
39:36
Speaker 10: it is the loss of opportunity for economic mobility.
39:44
Speaker 1: There's also, obviously, if the Republican Trump budget bill passes,
39:48
Speaker 1: there's going to be a significant loss of Medicaid participation
39:52
Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan. People are going to lose
39:55
Speaker 1: their healthcare coverage there. There's going to be cuts to
39:59
Speaker 1: Medicare that are forced because of that budget bill. What
40:03
Speaker 1: do you say to those voters worried about their health
40:06
Speaker 1: insurance in Michigan.
40:10
Speaker 10: Trump and House Republicans have frankly been pushing a bill
40:15
Speaker 10: that's going to cut core programs for Michiganders that includes Medicaid.
40:23
Speaker 10: If this bill, the spending bill that they pass out
40:25
Speaker 10: of the House, moves through, you're going to look at
40:29
Speaker 10: nearly thirty percent of Michiganders who are on Medicaid lose
40:33
Speaker 10: their coverage, and that's a problem, and that's actually a
40:38
Speaker 10: Republican idea in the Republican plan. That is frankly why
40:42
Speaker 10: I'm a Democrat. I believe that Democrats have the best ideas,
40:46
Speaker 10: but we need to have a continuous bias for action
40:49
Speaker 10: in terms of where we're moving forward. And we need
40:53
Speaker 10: to show voters that they need to understand that Democrats
40:58
Speaker 10: with their ideas and their action will be successful in
41:02
Speaker 10: the future facing elections. And frankly, we don't need, you know,
41:07
Speaker 10: figures like Nancy Pelosi trying to determine who's going to
41:11
Speaker 10: be the next representative from the state of Michigan and DC.
41:16
Speaker 10: So from one former speaker to another, I think she
41:19
Speaker 10: has her endorsement wrong.
41:22
Speaker 1: Michigan State Representative Joe Tate, now candidate for the United
41:25
Speaker 1: States Senate in Michigan, thank you very much for joining us.
41:30
Speaker 10: Thank you, Lawrence.
41:32
Speaker 1: Thank you. MSNBC's coverage continues right after this. Russia bombarded
41:42
Speaker 1: Ukrainian cities for the third straight day today and what
41:45
Speaker 1: Ukrainian officials are calling the largest aerial assault since Russia
41:49
Speaker 1: invaded Ukraine over three years ago, this time, nine hundred
41:54
Speaker 1: drones and missiles slamming cities across Ukraine. New York Times
41:59
Speaker 1: reports that over the last week, Ukraine says that Russia
42:03
Speaker 1: has directed at least one three hundred and ninety drones
42:06
Speaker 1: and ninety four missiles the targets across Ukraine. The Ukrainian
42:10
Speaker 1: Air Force said the attacks have killed at least thirty
42:13
Speaker 1: civilians and injured more than one hundred and sixty three.
42:17
Speaker 1: The attacks overnight followed Donald Trump actually criticizing Russian President
42:25
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin, who he called a genius at the beginning
42:29
Speaker 1: of Valdimir Putin's war. Overnight, Donald Trump saying Vladimir Putin
42:34
Speaker 1: is quote absolutely crazy Trump's words. Donald Trump says, he
42:40
Speaker 1: has gone absolutely crazy. He is needlessly killing a lot
42:43
Speaker 1: of people. And I'm not just talking about soldiers. Missiles
42:46
Speaker 1: and drones are being shot into cities in Ukraine for
42:50
Speaker 1: no reason whatsoever, which, of course, Vladimir Putin has been
42:55
Speaker 1: doing every day of this war before. Donald Trump just
42:59
Speaker 1: noticed this weekend. Donald Trump said this yesterday.
43:05
Speaker 2: That's surprise. I'm very surprise. We'll see what we're gonna do.
43:08
Speaker 2: I don't like what Putin is doing, not even a
43:10
Speaker 2: little bit he's killing people, and something happened to this guy,
43:14
Speaker 2: and I don't like it.
43:17
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal headline reads, now Russia defies Trump
43:22
Speaker 1: with largest ever drone and missile attack on Ukraine, and
43:26
Speaker 1: a Kremlin spokesperson said that Donald Trump's statements about the
43:31
Speaker 1: situation are quote an emotional reaction due to quote emotional overload.
43:39
Speaker 1: The New York Times reports the campaign comes a week
43:44
Speaker 1: after mister Trump spoke to mister Putin by telephone and
43:49
Speaker 1: appeared ready to abandon his efforts to secure a sea spire.
43:52
Speaker 1: Russia has clearly seen an opening as the United States,
43:56
Speaker 1: long the main arsenal of Ukraine's resistance, pulls back from
44:00
Speaker 1: the diplomatic process and resists supplying Kiev with additional military assistance.
44:06
Speaker 1: Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky referred to Vladimir Putin's increasingly brazen attacks,
44:12
Speaker 1: as he called them, and the inaction of the Trump
44:15
Speaker 1: administration in response, saying in a post quote only a
44:20
Speaker 1: sense of complete impunity can allow Russia to carry out
44:24
Speaker 1: such strikes and constantly increase their scale. Putin demonstrates how
44:28
Speaker 1: much he despises the world, which spends more effort on
44:34
Speaker 1: dialogue with him than on pressure. Joining us now is
44:38
Speaker 1: Democratic Carnsman Adam Smith of Washington is the ranking member
44:43
Speaker 1: of the House Armed Services Committee. Thank you very much
44:46
Speaker 1: for joining us on this Memorial Day our special coverage.
44:51
Speaker 1: Donald Trump seems to have discovered exactly how Vladimir Putin
44:55
Speaker 1: has been running this war every day. But this is
44:58
Speaker 1: the first time Donald Trump it objectionable.
45:02
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, it's I wish I could say it was shocking,
45:04
Speaker 11: but it's somewhat consistent with the degree to which Trump
45:07
Speaker 11: really doesn't pay attention to the world. But this is
45:09
Speaker 11: what people were saying during the campaign. If you want
45:11
Speaker 11: peace in Ukraine, you have got to put pressure on Putin.
45:15
Speaker 11: Trump throughout the campaign, then after he was elected, once
45:18
Speaker 11: he got in office, put all the pressure on Ukraine
45:21
Speaker 11: and on Vladimir'selenski didn't put the pressure on Putin, didn't
45:24
Speaker 11: put the pressure on Russia. And basically Trump showed Putin weakness,
45:29
Speaker 11: and Putin took advantage.
45:30
Speaker 4: Of that look. Putin for years, going back.
45:33
Speaker 11: To twenty fourteen, has been very clear about his intentions
45:36
Speaker 11: in Ukraine.
45:37
Speaker 7: The only way to stop him is to stop him.
45:39
Speaker 11: Frankly, to do what the Biden administration did, which is
45:41
Speaker 11: put together a fifty three nation coalition to help arm
45:46
Speaker 11: Ukraine and help them defend themselves. If Putin has stopped,
45:50
Speaker 11: that forces him to the bargaining table. But Trump just
45:53
Speaker 11: gave Putin a green light in Ukraine. Now he's waking
45:56
Speaker 11: up to day's surprise by what pretty much everybody paying
45:59
Speaker 11: attention has known for years. The only hope is maybe
46:03
Speaker 11: Trump has figured it out, and maybe he will put
46:05
Speaker 11: the pressure on Putin, you know, bring our allies together
46:09
Speaker 11: and give Ukraine a better position, put Ukraine in a
46:12
Speaker 11: better position to defend itself and in this war.
46:15
Speaker 1: And everything we're seeing this weekend comes after Donald Trump
46:19
Speaker 1: had his phone call with Vladimir Putin, which at the
46:22
Speaker 1: time the White House wanted to portray as a very
46:26
Speaker 1: helpful phone call that advanced the situation in the right direction.
46:30
Speaker 1: It'd be Now in retrospect, one has to wonder what
46:34
Speaker 1: might have been said by whom in that phone call
46:38
Speaker 1: that left Vladimir Putin going in this direction.
46:42
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just consistent with what
46:44
Speaker 11: Trump has done throughout and that is, like I said
46:47
Speaker 11: to basically, you know, abandoned Ukraine. Make it look like
46:51
Speaker 11: he's sympathetic to Russia, I mean, spouting Russian talking points.
46:55
Speaker 11: I mean, it's so embarrassing that at the UN the
46:57
Speaker 11: US refused to support resolution under the Trump administration condemning
47:02
Speaker 11: Russia's invasion of Ukraine almost like blaming Ukraine for being attacked.
47:07
Speaker 11: All of that rhetoric, all of that messaging just told
47:11
Speaker 11: Putin that if he waits it out, you know, he'll
47:14
Speaker 11: be fine in Ukraine.
47:15
Speaker 4: So we need to reverse that.
47:17
Speaker 11: Certainly, it's crucial we continue to provide military and other assistance.
47:20
Speaker 11: But then I think increasing sanctions on Russia, and the
47:24
Speaker 11: one piece of this that hasn't been reported as widely
47:26
Speaker 11: as I think it should.
47:27
Speaker 7: Ukraine has done.
47:28
Speaker 11: A remarkable job of stopping Russia in the last five
47:31
Speaker 11: or six months. Russia is endearing enormous casualties, both in
47:36
Speaker 11: terms of people and equipment to inch forward in eastern Ukraine.
47:40
Speaker 11: Russia is in trouble. As long as we don't back
47:44
Speaker 11: away from Ukraine, Ukraine can survive and stop Putin, and
47:48
Speaker 11: that's what we need to do.
47:50
Speaker 1: Carsman Adam Smith, thank you very much for joining our discussion.
47:54
Speaker 1: Thanks Larrence, and join us now. Is Michael McFall, the
47:58
Speaker 1: former US ambassador to rush On, MSNBC international affairs analyst
48:03
Speaker 1: and a Bessment McFall. We know that among Republicans in
48:06
Speaker 1: the United States Senate there is some strong support for Ukraine.
48:12
Speaker 1: It may not be the governing majority of them who
48:14
Speaker 1: are strong, but there's a very solid group who have
48:17
Speaker 1: been strong and consistently strong. And it seems that Vladimir
48:22
Speaker 1: Putin's conduct over this weekend might give them an opening
48:28
Speaker 1: in the argument they've been trying to make, possibly a
48:31
Speaker 1: private with Donald Trump.
48:36
Speaker 3: Well, I certainly hope so, Lawrence. I think that would
48:38
Speaker 3: be a fantastic outcome. You're right, there is a majority
48:42
Speaker 3: in both houses, in the House and the Senate that
48:45
Speaker 3: support Ukraine if you had the Democrats. By the way,
48:48
Speaker 3: the American people do too.
48:50
Speaker 1: When do you.
48:50
Speaker 3: Get polls where eighty one percent of the American people
48:54
Speaker 3: agree eighty one percent of the American people don't trust
48:58
Speaker 3: and don't like Vladimir Putin. So if the President wants
49:01
Speaker 3: to do what's right but also what's popular, this could
49:05
Speaker 3: be the time for new sanctions and a new aid
49:08
Speaker 3: package to Ukraine.
49:10
Speaker 1: You know, this situation, I think does point back to
49:14
Speaker 1: the Trump Putin phone call, which is there as far
49:17
Speaker 1: as we know, their only point of major contact this
49:21
Speaker 1: year in the new Trump presidency, and Vladimir Putin, after
49:26
Speaker 1: that phone call, has decided to do this, which makes
49:29
Speaker 1: of course whatever was said in that phone call so
49:34
Speaker 1: much more important to understanding what's going on now.
49:39
Speaker 3: Exactly. And of course we don't know all the details.
49:42
Speaker 3: They talked for a long time, but my guess is
49:45
Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin said nice things about I want to do
49:47
Speaker 3: a ceasfire, and Trump said, well, that's great, let's get
49:50
Speaker 3: a deal done. And what is Putin's actual response, not
49:54
Speaker 3: his words, but his actions to launch this horrific attack
49:58
Speaker 3: on civilians last night. And I think the President is
50:02
Speaker 3: finally understanding that Putin may say one thing and may
50:07
Speaker 3: humor him when they talk, but he's actually not interested
50:11
Speaker 3: in doing a piece deal. And more moreover, I think
50:14
Speaker 3: he is embarrassing the President of the United States by
50:18
Speaker 3: doing things like this just days after they talked. It
50:22
Speaker 3: makes President Trump look weak, and I can't imagine that
50:25
Speaker 3: it's a good feeling for the president.
50:28
Speaker 1: Ambassador of Michael McFall, thank you very much for joining us,
50:31
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, and can we help if the
50:36
Speaker 1: bill passes the Senate? Donald Trump's budget bill would leave
50:39
Speaker 1: millions of Americans without healthcare and could force hundreds of
50:44
Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood clinics to close. That's next.
50:53
Speaker 12: From my Republican colleagues who are sure what is in
50:56
Speaker 12: and not in this bill, in this process that has
51:00
Speaker 12: been this rushed. When you wake up in the morning,
51:03
Speaker 12: you will realize that you voted to defund Planned Parenthood
51:07
Speaker 12: and to take away healthcare from thirteen points seven million Americans.
51:11
Speaker 12: And when this country wakes up in the morning, there
51:14
Speaker 12: will be consequences to pay for this, and I yield back.
51:20
Speaker 1: That was congress Women alexandri A Kaiser Cortez before Republicans
51:23
Speaker 1: voted for a bill that would leave millions of Americans
51:26
Speaker 1: without healthcare coverage and force Planned Parenthood to shut down
51:30
Speaker 1: two hundred clinics, leaving one point one million patients without
51:34
Speaker 1: access to care. In a statement, Planned Parenthood Action Fund
51:38
Speaker 1: president Alexis mcgil johnson said, quote, Defunding Planned Parenthood is
51:43
Speaker 1: as unpopular as it is dangerous. But House Republicans don't
51:47
Speaker 1: care about what the American people want or their ability
51:50
Speaker 1: to get basic health services. We know what defunding will mean.
51:54
Speaker 1: Nearly two hundred Planned Parenthood health centers could be forced
51:58
Speaker 1: to shutter and more than one point one million in
52:00
Speaker 1: patients could lose access to care. Cancers will go undetected,
52:05
Speaker 1: sti's will go untreated, and birth control will be harder
52:11
Speaker 1: to get, all while charging the taxpayers nearly three hundred
52:15
Speaker 1: million dollars to do it. Smith College professor Carrie Baker,
52:19
Speaker 1: who will join us in a moment, writs in the
52:22
Speaker 1: Washington Monthly Quote. The number of abortions in the United
52:25
Speaker 1: States has skyrocketed in recent years, despite the Supreme Court
52:30
Speaker 1: overturning constitutional abortion rights in twenty twenty two and eighteen
52:34
Speaker 1: states banning first trimester abortions. Spurred by restrictions, abortion rights
52:42
Speaker 1: advocates have pioneered new abortion pill delivery routes, both inside
52:47
Speaker 1: and outside of the medical system, that have revolutionized abortion
52:51
Speaker 1: access in the US in ways anti abortion policymakers will
52:56
Speaker 1: likely not be able to stop. The primary reasons for
52:59
Speaker 1: the expansion of abortion access despite state bans are the
53:04
Speaker 1: advent of telehealth abortion during the pandemic and the development
53:09
Speaker 1: of community support networks that provide free abortion pills two
53:13
Speaker 1: individuals living in restrictive states, The convenience and affordability of
53:18
Speaker 1: abortion pills are critical because half of those seeking abortions
53:23
Speaker 1: in the US live in poverty and another one quarter
53:26
Speaker 1: have a low income. Sixty percent already have children. Telehealth
53:31
Speaker 1: abortion community networks and websites selling pills enable those who
53:36
Speaker 1: lack transportation or who can't take time off from work
53:40
Speaker 1: or afford childcare to obtain abortion services. Joining us now
53:45
Speaker 1: is Carrie Baker, Professor of Women and Gender Studies at
53:48
Speaker 1: Smith College. She is the author of Abortion Pills, US
53:53
Speaker 1: History and Politics. Professor Baker, you're reporting on this has
53:58
Speaker 1: become so much more importan now with the possible shutdown
54:04
Speaker 1: of planned parenthood clinics if this bill is passed, but
54:08
Speaker 1: you've described in detail, I'm sure very much to the
54:12
Speaker 1: surprise of people who are trying to stop abortion in
54:14
Speaker 1: this country, just how people have adapted to this new regime.
54:20
Speaker 1: This presumably will put even more pressure on the telemedicine
54:25
Speaker 1: side of this issue.
54:28
Speaker 13: Yes, restricting access to contraception will increase the number of abortions.
54:34
Speaker 13: We've seen this already in states that ban abortion. That
54:37
Speaker 13: unwanted pregnancies have gone up because of restrictions, and access
54:41
Speaker 13: to contraception, and abortions will go up they won't stop
54:46
Speaker 13: abortions because if people are determined, if they can't afford
54:51
Speaker 13: a pregnancy and don't want to carry it to term,
54:53
Speaker 13: they will find a way to end to pregnancy. And
54:55
Speaker 13: we know this because from around the world where nations
54:59
Speaker 13: have bands on abortion. It doesn't stop abortion. It just
55:03
Speaker 13: means people have to find alternative routes. And I think
55:07
Speaker 13: about prohibition. Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking, right. If people,
55:14
Speaker 13: you know, want to control their bodies, they're going to
55:15
Speaker 13: find a way to do it. And abortion pills are
55:18
Speaker 13: safer than tile and all are ninety eight percent effective,
55:22
Speaker 13: and people are finding them in creative ways in the
55:27
Speaker 13: United States.
55:29
Speaker 1: What would you anticipate if this bill is passed that
55:33
Speaker 1: would restrict played parenthoods so much? What changes would you
55:37
Speaker 1: anticipate in what you've been covering what you've been reporting on.
55:42
Speaker 13: Well, I think that more people will need abortions, more
55:45
Speaker 13: people will end up with unwanted pregnancies. You know, if
55:48
Speaker 13: planned parenthood closes down, people won't have access to contraception,
55:53
Speaker 13: they won't have access to cancer screenings, to SDD screenings.
55:57
Speaker 13: Many of these planned parenthoods are located in rural areas
56:01
Speaker 13: and low income areas and there aren't alternative sources of care,
56:06
Speaker 13: and so people are going to end up with a
56:08
Speaker 13: lot more unwanted pregnancies. And we know when people have
56:12
Speaker 13: unwanted pregnancies and they're not able to care for those
56:15
Speaker 13: children if they were to have them, then they get abortions.
56:18
Speaker 13: And abortion pills are widely available. I think this was
56:21
Speaker 13: an unintended consequence of the overturn of Row versus Wade
56:26
Speaker 13: during the pandemic. Even before the overturn, because of the
56:32
Speaker 13: rise of telehealth, people began to get abortion pills through telehealth.
56:38
Speaker 13: Two thirds of abortions are done with medications, and over
56:41
Speaker 13: twenty percent are now done with telehealth. And the thing
56:44
Speaker 13: about telehealth, it means that people can get it no
56:47
Speaker 13: matter where they live, no matter even if they live
56:50
Speaker 13: in states with restrictions. There are now eight states that
56:54
Speaker 13: have telehealth provider shield laws that allow providers in those
56:57
Speaker 13: states to serve people in all fifth states. So those
57:02
Speaker 13: clinics are now mailing pills to people in Texas and
57:06
Speaker 13: Louisiana and Georgia and the eighteen states that ban first
57:10
Speaker 13: trimester abortions. And in addition, it's very affordable. The clinics
57:16
Speaker 13: that are serving those people are serving them on a
57:19
Speaker 13: sliding scale fee. They're very determined to get this care
57:22
Speaker 13: to people so that people don't end up with unwanted
57:25
Speaker 13: pregnancy having to carry unwanted pregnancies to term. So that's
57:28
Speaker 13: all within the medical system. So those are doctors in
57:32
Speaker 13: states like Massachusetts or New York that are mailing medication
57:37
Speaker 13: abortion to people in banned states. But then there's also
57:41
Speaker 13: a very vibrant underground network where people are sharing pills
57:46
Speaker 13: for free in states that are restrictive. And these medications
57:51
Speaker 13: are again remember very very safe, safer than tail and
57:54
Speaker 13: all much safer than viagra. And these networks which again
57:59
Speaker 13: in the countries around the world where abortion is banned,
58:02
Speaker 13: these kinds of community networks exist. And so one example
58:07
Speaker 13: is Redstateaccess dot org, and every state that bans abortion,
58:12
Speaker 13: there's a community network in that state and all people
58:16
Speaker 13: have to do is email the proton account that's listed
58:20
Speaker 13: on the Red State Access website and people and these
58:24
Speaker 13: networks will send these medications. These are reliable networks, it's safe,
58:30
Speaker 13: and then they also have support for people using the pills.
58:34
Speaker 13: In addition, there are a bunch of websites selling abortion pills.
58:38
Speaker 13: These pills should really be over the counter, that's how
58:40
Speaker 13: safe they are. And the only reason that they're restricted
58:43
Speaker 13: is because of anti abortion political pressure which has made
58:47
Speaker 13: them very historically very hard to access. And you can
58:51
Speaker 13: buy them on the website for about sixty five dollars,
58:54
Speaker 13: so it's quite affordable. And all of these resources are
58:59
Speaker 13: available on a webs site called plan cpills dot org
59:03
Speaker 13: and has a drop down menu. You put in your
59:05
Speaker 13: state and it will tell you exactly what community networks
59:08
Speaker 13: serve your state, the vetted e commerce website selling abortion pills,
59:13
Speaker 13: as well as the telehealth providers serving your state.
59:19
Speaker 1: Professor Carry Baker, thank you very much for joining.
59:21
Speaker 13: Us, absolutely, thank you.
59:24
Speaker 1: Thank you. And coming up, Donald Trump once again caved
59:28
Speaker 1: on his illegal tariffs, agreeing to delay tariffs on the
59:32
Speaker 1: European Union. The continued chaos and failure of Donald Trump's
59:37
Speaker 1: illegal trade war is next. Today's NBC reports that market
59:48
Speaker 1: analysts are warning investors should buckle up for more volatility
59:53
Speaker 1: as the potential for a trade war has not completely dissipated.
59:57
Speaker 1: Despite US President Donald Trump's delay of rolling out fifty
1:00:01
Speaker 1: percent tariffs on the European Union. Yesterday, Donald Trump pushed
1:00:05
Speaker 1: the deadline for his fifty percent tariffs on all goods
1:00:09
Speaker 1: imported from the European Union to July ninth. Neil Shearing,
1:00:14
Speaker 1: chief economist at Capital Economics, says the scale of the
1:00:19
Speaker 1: increase in tariffs, the capricious manner in which they were threatened,
1:00:23
Speaker 1: and the growing size of US budget deficits are unsettling
1:00:27
Speaker 1: financial markets. This all points to concerns about policy direction
1:00:32
Speaker 1: in the United States, lacking credibility, and that the guardrails
1:00:37
Speaker 1: are coming off. Joining US now is economist Betsy Stevenson,
1:00:41
Speaker 1: Professor of economics at the University of Michigan. She served
1:00:45
Speaker 1: as chief economist for the Department of Labor in the
1:00:48
Speaker 1: Obama administration. Professor Stevenson, thank you very much for joining us.
1:00:52
Speaker 1: I have very, very confidently declared to the world on
1:00:57
Speaker 1: this program that these Trump tariffs won't go in to effect.
1:01:01
Speaker 1: But I'm not running a company in Europe where I
1:01:04
Speaker 1: really have to kind of plan. My prediction is based
1:01:07
Speaker 1: on Donald Trump. Hassaul what the stock market does to
1:01:09
Speaker 1: him when he does that. He won't do it again,
1:01:12
Speaker 1: but he loves continuing to play the game. That these
1:01:15
Speaker 1: tariffs are in his hand, ready to impose at any moment.
1:01:18
Speaker 1: What is just the threat doing to the international economy
1:01:23
Speaker 1: and the American economy.
1:01:26
Speaker 14: Well, I mean you nailed it by talking about the uncertainty,
1:01:30
Speaker 14: and what would you do if you were a business.
1:01:31
Speaker 14: You know, you can say these tariffs won't go into effect,
1:01:34
Speaker 14: but we actually don't have really any idea what's going
1:01:37
Speaker 14: to be announced tomorrow the next day. Even if the
1:01:40
Speaker 14: tariffs go into effect, will they last twenty four hours,
1:01:43
Speaker 14: twenty four days, twenty four weeks.
1:01:46
Speaker 15: We just don't know.
1:01:48
Speaker 14: And what that basically means is that there is option
1:01:52
Speaker 14: value of waiting to get more information. So what a
1:01:57
Speaker 14: lot of companies need to do is just not move
1:02:00
Speaker 14: ahead with investments or new hiring or plans for the
1:02:04
Speaker 14: future until some of this uncertainty resolves. And that even
1:02:09
Speaker 14: if none of these tariffs ever go into a fact,
1:02:11
Speaker 14: that's going to be.
1:02:12
Speaker 15: Enough to slow the global economy.
1:02:15
Speaker 14: The United States more than any other country will be
1:02:19
Speaker 14: hurt by that, but it will you know, it is
1:02:21
Speaker 14: having effects that are ricocheting across the globe because it's
1:02:25
Speaker 14: hard to make plans if you actually don't know what
1:02:27
Speaker 14: kind of market you'll be able to sell into.
1:02:31
Speaker 1: The other thing that again, this is our foreign trading
1:02:34
Speaker 1: partners would not have such a good focus on this
1:02:36
Speaker 1: is that all of these tariffs are illegal. There is
1:02:40
Speaker 1: absolutely no authority anywhere in law for a president to
1:02:43
Speaker 1: impose a fifty percent tax on everything coming from the
1:02:47
Speaker 1: European Union, and they are all subject to court challenges
1:02:51
Speaker 1: right now, and so is entirely possible that courts will
1:02:56
Speaker 1: be throwing out the president's authority to do this in
1:03:00
Speaker 1: the way he's done it. There's a very very limited
1:03:03
Speaker 1: legal authority for specific tariffs on specific goods from specific
1:03:07
Speaker 1: places for national security reasons. But the world has to
1:03:13
Speaker 1: live with the bluster that they get from Donald Trump
1:03:17
Speaker 1: that they don't have any other choice of saying, okay,
1:03:20
Speaker 1: now it's July ninth.
1:03:24
Speaker 14: Well, look, I'm an economist, not a lawyer, so I
1:03:27
Speaker 14: don't want to comment on the legality. But what I
1:03:30
Speaker 14: will say is the difference between an actual formal trade agreement,
1:03:35
Speaker 14: which we're not planning to get from anybody, is when
1:03:40
Speaker 14: you get a trade agreement that's signed by Congress, we
1:03:42
Speaker 14: know that that document is going to last for longer
1:03:45
Speaker 14: and typically lasts into a new presidential administration. These are handshakes,
1:03:51
Speaker 14: These are. He calls them trade deals, they're kind of
1:03:54
Speaker 14: like trade winks. You know, it's not really clear what's
1:03:58
Speaker 14: going to last and how long it's going to last.
1:04:00
Speaker 14: So even if you know the president can announce that
1:04:05
Speaker 14: he has, you know, made some kind of arrangement, the
1:04:09
Speaker 14: reality is we don't know how long that arrangement's going
1:04:11
Speaker 14: to last. It may be undone as you said, by
1:04:13
Speaker 14: a court, It may be undone in the midterm, after
1:04:16
Speaker 14: the midterm elections. It may be undone by another president.
1:04:20
Speaker 14: If you're thinking about making an investment in a factory
1:04:25
Speaker 14: or something that you need to yield returns over.
1:04:29
Speaker 15: Many decades, you can't count on any of this to last.
1:04:34
Speaker 15: And I think that that is true. Regardless of what
1:04:38
Speaker 15: the courts do.
1:04:39
Speaker 14: There's a whole bunch of other actors that could change
1:04:42
Speaker 14: these rules of the game. And so if I'm a
1:04:45
Speaker 14: company making a decision, if I'm the CEO, I'm putting
1:04:49
Speaker 14: a pretty low weight on the probability we have these
1:04:52
Speaker 14: tariffs for the next twenty years.
1:04:55
Speaker 1: And even if you get an actual trade deal with
1:04:58
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, he has shown he will violate it because
1:05:02
Speaker 1: the only trade deal he ever really got and his
1:05:05
Speaker 1: first presidency was the update of the North American Free
1:05:09
Speaker 1: Trade Agreement, and as soon as he gets back into
1:05:12
Speaker 1: the presidency he violates his own trade deal with Mexico
1:05:16
Speaker 1: and Canada.
1:05:18
Speaker 14: Well, I mean, it is true that consistency is not
1:05:21
Speaker 14: a strength of this.
1:05:22
Speaker 15: Administration, But you know, I think one of the big.
1:05:27
Speaker 14: Concerns I have is that the administration does not seem
1:05:31
Speaker 14: to understand the interplay between tariffs, trade deficits, exchange rates.
1:05:39
Speaker 15: And budget deficits.
1:05:41
Speaker 14: And so while Trump is on the one hand trying
1:05:45
Speaker 14: to negotiate with company with countries because he wants us
1:05:49
Speaker 14: to be exporting more and importing less, he's running up
1:05:53
Speaker 14: a budget deficit that requires that we sell treasuries.
1:05:56
Speaker 15: All over the globe in order to fund it.
1:05:59
Speaker 14: Those two things don't I'll go hand in hand very well,
1:06:02
Speaker 14: without a lot of movements in the dollar.
1:06:06
Speaker 1: Professor or Betsy Stevenson, thank you very much for joining.
1:06:09
Speaker 15: Us, my pleasure.
1:06:12
Speaker 1: And coming up Harvard Constitutional law Professor Lawrence Tribe will
1:06:16
Speaker 1: respond to Donald Trump's latest attacks on Harvard University. That's
1:06:21
Speaker 1: next