Latest / The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast / 51. Part Two: Do they really have a personality disorder? Differentiating PTSD, male entitlement and personality disorders

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51. Part Two: Do they really have a personality disorder? Differentiating PTSD, male entitlement and personality disorders · The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, thanks for joining me for another episode of the Post-Separation Abuse Podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, specialist Separation, divorce and Co-Parenting Coach, danielle Black.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is part two of Do they Really have a Personality Disorder?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You thought you knew, but you didn't have a clue.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Baby, you thought you knew, but you didn't have a clue.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Baby, hey, I'm Danielle Black and I'm the coach you need if you're dealing with post-separation abuse.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I help you make sense of ongoing abusive behaviour after separation and help you take back your power and control.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: If you haven't already listened to part one of do they really have a personality disorder, I highly recommend that you listen to that episode before listening to this one.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: For those of you that have, you may remember that in that episode I spoke about the similarities in some traits between people who have narcissistic tendencies and have high levels of entitlement and people who may be suffering with PTSD, and people who may be suffering with PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder and CPTSD complex post-traumatic stress disorder.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on that again briefly at the start of this episode to say that not only can some aspects of PTSD and CPTSD present as being narcissistic, there have actually been numerous situations where women in particular, have been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and later it was discovered that what they were really suffering from was complex PTSD.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: And I mention this to highlight again the distinct similarities in how a personality disorder can present and how PTSD or complex PTSD can present.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Complex PTSD and borderline personality disorder do share some common symptoms.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Now it's important for me to say here that these two things can actually coexist, so it is possible for someone to have borderline personality disorder and complex PTSD.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: However, as I just mentioned, there have been situations where, in particular, women have been incorrectly diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Some of the similarities between CPTSD and BPD borderline personality disorder are a history of trauma symptoms that include changes in mood, depression, suicidal thoughts in mood depression, suicidal thoughts, patterns of self-destructive behavior, intrusive thoughts and difficulty appropriately managing emotions.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: These things that are common in both CPTSD and BPD can lead to misdiagnosis.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It can also be difficult for mental health professionals to identify that the emotional dysregulation of someone with complex post-traumatic stress disorder.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: It can be difficult for professionals to differentiate that from someone with BPD, from borderline personality disorder, which can include inappropriate anger and difficulty with impulse control.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: So you might be able to understand that emotional dysregulation.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: So being emotionally triggered, having those past traumas, the emotions associated with those past traumas, those things being triggered in the present moment can look to an outsider as inappropriate anger and difficulty with impulse control.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Now it's important again to recognize that it is possible for someone to have complex PTSD and BPD, so those two things can coexist, particularly because with anyone with borderline personality disorder there is often a history of trauma.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: The reason I wanted to go into this in a little bit more detail again is because I think it's important to be aware that when you're labeling someone as having a personality disorder whether you're calling them a quote-unquote narcissist or assuming they have narcissistic personality disorder or any other personality disorder it is important to keep in mind that there are other mental health conditions that can have very similar symptomology and it can be very, very difficult to differentiate the symptoms and what's actually driving the behavior, what's driving those particular traits, to the point that it is difficult for mental health professionals.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier in this episode, there have been cases, numerous cases, where people have been misdiagnosed with personality disorders, when what they are really suffering from is either PTSD or complex PTSD.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: So this is really important to keep in mind, not just for when you're reflecting on the behavior of your former partner, but also when you're thinking about the way in which you present and the way in which you show up in the world.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Now, over the years that I've been doing this work, I have worked with a number of women who, when they have first started working with me, have presented quite badly.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: What I mean by that is that if I wasn't aware before speaking with them, if I was not already aware of their trauma history, there would have been a good chance that I would have had a negative first impression of them.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: As I touched on in part one, people who have unresolved trauma, who have experienced trauma.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important to say here that trauma is not in and of itself the event or events plural that we're experienced, but rather what that event or events caused within the body and the brain.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: It's the body reliving those emotions as though that thing, that event, that situation was happening again in the present time.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: And it's important to say here that appropriate therapy, particularly EMDR therapy, can be incredibly powerful in helping people to reprocess those memories, that trauma, so that those emotions are not continually triggered in the future.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: That's what real healing looks like that doesn't mean that you are ever going to be completely 100% A-OK.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I've never actually met an adult who has not experienced childhood trauma.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I've never met an adult who does not have some for want of a better word baggage about what they've experienced in life to a certain extent.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: So this is not about skipping off into the sunset as though nothing terrible has ever happened.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Rather, it's about processing the trauma, processing the experiences, so that we're not constantly reliving those situations, so that we're not experiencing emotions as if that past traumatic event was happening right now.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Because if that happens to us, that tells us that there's something not quite right going on.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: That is an overreaction of our nervous system and it is something that needs to be addressed if we're going to move on with that next chapter of our lives in a positive way.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: This doesn't mean that we're ever going to forget what we've experienced, and it certainly doesn't mean that you need to forgive what you have experienced.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Rather, it just means that you can move on with your life in a way that does not have you repeatedly having to live through those emotions as though your physical survival is under threat.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: So after that little segue, back to people who have experienced trauma.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: So with my clients, to people who have experienced trauma.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: So with my clients.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: It's the trauma that they have experienced from years of family violence of some form or another, most commonly coercive control in all its various forms, oftentimes emotional abuse, financial abuse.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Where there is one form of family violence, there is usually more more.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: People who have experienced trauma from those things and who have not resolved that trauma, have not processed that trauma, are still reacting emotionally as though they were still actively under threat, tend to be focused inwards, they tend to be very hyper-focused on their own emotions and what this means is that the rest of the world often fades away completely because of that inward focus, because of their focus on how anything and everything personally impacts them and I touched on this a bit in part one and the way in which that can be perceived as being very narcissistic, and that is how some people with PTSD and CPTSD present in interactions with other people.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: They can present as being very self-absorbed, very self-focused with others, an inability to appropriately consider the way in which somebody else might be perceiving the situation or experiencing the situation, whatever the situation may be.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Now, this is relevant to the work that I do, because a lot of the clients that I work with come to me because their former partner is seeking significant time with the children oftentimes equal shared care and oftentimes those situations end up going to court because their former partners initiate court proceedings.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: So many of my clients have found themselves dragged into the court process.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Those are the women who are often seeking my support and my strategic services, along with women who are concerned that their case may end up in the court system and would like to do what they can to either avoid it or to really strengthen their position and their case in the event that that happens.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Part of that work that I do with those clients is helping to prepare them for court appearances and for things like meeting with a court child expert or a family consultant.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: The way in which you present during those meetings is so incredibly important because the reports from those meetings whether we're talking about a family report or a child impact report those reports can have a significant weight on the parenting orders that you end up with, either orders that are made by consent or orders that are imposed by the court.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I have had clients come to work with me after they've already met with a court child expert or family consultant and the report that they have received has not painted them in a very good light, and this was because they were dealing with PTSD or CPTSD and did not have significant insight into that and presented badly.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: So this is why I'm saying it's really important to be aware of the crossovers between the symptoms of personality disorders and people who have experienced trauma and have ongoing post-traumatic stress because of that trauma.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Not only is that relevant when you're thinking about what's underpinning your former partner's personality and behavior, but it's also incredibly relevant when you're reflecting on your own personality traits and your own behaviors, the way in which you're showing up in the world, the way in which you may be perceived by other people, especially if your case is in the court system or might one day end up in the court system.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: If you're currently in the court system with parenting matters or you think there's a good chance that that might be on the cards for you at some point in time, please reach out.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Please visit my website, danielleblackcoachingcomau.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: You can quickly and easily.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: At the time that I've recorded this, you can still book discovery calls quickly and easily via my website.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: There's also standalone consultations that you can book via my website.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: If you're needing to prepare for meeting with a court, child expert or family consultant to optimize the way in which you present during those meetings.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: It is so important if you are navigating the court system or think that that might be on the cards for you, it is so important that you are supported by somebody who understands that process, who understands the way in which you need to present, who understands the sorts of questions that you are likely to be asked and the way that you should answer those questions, and these are things that most lawyers cannot answer.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I have the benefit of having lived experience of the court system three years in the court system, meeting with several family consultants in my journey, experience with optimizing the reports from those professionals and supporting many, many clients to optimize the reports from professionals throughout their own court journeys.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: You absolutely need to have strategic support in your corner from someone who gets it, who's lived it and who understands what these professionals are focused on and what they're looking for.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I've had far too many women come to me because they were not appropriately prepared before meeting with a court, child expert or family consultant and it did not go well for them.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Now, if that's you, if you've got a family report.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: That's not great.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I can still help you.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I've helped a number of women to turn their case around, to really strengthen their position and improve their position.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: However, it is so much better to start out strongly and not have a problematic family report or child impact report in the first place.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: For the rest of this episode, we're going to look at the main traits common to most personality disordered people and also to people who could be described as having a high conflict personality.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: It's important to note here that the traits that we're about to unpack are not a diagnosis in and of themselves.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: So again, I really do caution you from making assessments and judgments yourself as to whether or not your ex has a personality disorder.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: However, the more of these traits that are present, the more it starts to become likely that your former partner or any other person potentially may have a personality disorder.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Again, as mentioned in part one, one of the most important questions to ask yourself when wondering about someone else's mental health and whether or not they have a personality disorder is to think about whether or not they have problematic relationships with other people.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Non-disordered abusers are capable of having relatively healthy relationships with friends, co-workers, neighbours, and are skilled at keeping controlling behaviours and other abusive behaviours behind closed doors.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Sometimes that's only with intimate partners and children, but it can also be with their own family members, such as parents, siblings, those sorts of things.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Personality disordered abusers don't have that same skill.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Not long term.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Can they be capable of superficial charm, putting on a bit of a mask and a facade?
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: But when they feel thwarted, when they feel that somebody has disrespected them, criticised them keeping in mind that these people tend to be very hypersensitive to criticism they tend to behave in a way that is over the top.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: They can be very litigious, they can threaten to take legal action over the slightest thing.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: They can be very vindictive, very retaliatory, again, over situations and incidents that most people would consider to be relatively minor.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: And so this is why it's not just intimate partners, children and close family members that think that there's something not quite right If someone has a personality disorder.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: The majority of the time, there are other people who have had negative experiences with the personality disordered person.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Personality disordered people, on average, do not have high IQs, not higher IQs than the average person.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: People with personality disorders are not evil geniuses.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: On average, they have an average IQ.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Now what this means is that just because someone has a personality disorder, maybe they can be cunning.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Just because someone has a personality disorder, maybe they can be cunning, manipulative, superficially charming those sorts of things.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: They are not known for their skill at being strategic.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Long-term, they are usually their own worst enemies, and with clients I have that are going through the court system with former partners who likely have one or more personality disorders, these former partners tend to, at various parts of the journey, present fairly badly.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: So back to the main traits again.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: These traits are common to most personality disordered people, but also to people who may have a high conflict personality.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: The first trait is a pattern of blaming others and having an unrelenting focus on a particular target of blame.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Personality disordered people rarely, if ever, admit fault or responsibility for anything, no matter how small or trivial.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Rather, they go to incredible lengths to justify their actions and this often involves one or more targets of blame.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Partners and also former partners are common targets of blame and often the blame game does not stop after separation and divorce.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It's common for personality disordered people to continue to be hyper-focused on former partners long after the divorce has been finalized and to continue blaming them for anything and everything for years.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Unrelenting focus and blaming can be obvious, or it can be subtle and nuanced.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: The underlying purpose of subtle behaviors can be to provoke retaliation from the target person.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: How this can manifest is that the target of the harassment eventually has had enough and loses their temper at the personality disordered person or high conflict person, at which time the personality disordered person will say something like see, I told you, you're crazy, look at what I have to deal with from you.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: You need professional help.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: It's common for high conflict people and personality disordered people to create narratives in which they are the victim and that their target of blame is the aggressor or the perpetrator and may be mentally unstable.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Personality disordered people tend to love attention, and while many may prefer to be adored and admired, it can also suit their need for undivided attention and control of the situation if they're pitied and sympathized with.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: There is no bigger victim than a personality disordered person, and this can become an issue that must be navigated if parenting matters proceed to court.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: It's important to note here that non-disordered abusers are also very skilled at switching blame, particularly utilising a pattern of behaviour referred to as DARVO, that is, deny, attack, reverse, victim and offender.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: There's a specific episode that deals with that particular pattern of behavior.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: That's episode number six, and that's called Unmasking DARVO understanding how abusers distort reality.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Please know, non-disordered abusers are skilled at that pattern of behavior as well.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Another trait of personality disordered people is demonstrating a significant lack of insight.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: They tend to be unable to connect the dots regarding the results that they're experiencing in their life and with their own behavior.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: This is also linked to the repeating cycle of blaming and focusing on others that we've just touched on.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: This trait is also common in non-disordered abusers, and it comes back to the male entitlement that I discussed in part one.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: When someone has a high level of entitlement so in this case we're talking about men a common belief as part of this entitlement is that Not only should their partner love them, care for them, but that partner should also be a servant, that partner should be responsible for the domestic chores.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: There tends to be a lot of misogyny values, beliefs, attitudes around gender roles, those sorts of things.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: So it is not just personality disordered people who lack insight into their own behaviour and the harm that's caused by their behaviour.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: The way in which this starts to be a problem for personality disordered people is that they demonstrate this lack of insight not just in intimate relationships, but also with other people in their interactions with the neighbours.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: In their interactions with the neighbours, in their interactions with co-workers, in their interactions with literally anyone that they come into contact with.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So, for example, they have an interaction with a co-worker or an employer in which they behave badly.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: They don't have any insight into why there's anything wrong with their behaviour.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: They lose their job.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: They then have a history of being self-employed, potentially really patchy self-employment.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: This is something else that's really common for personality disordered people, and they feel that they're the victim.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: They don't have any insight, they don't have the ability to connect the dots as to why what they've experienced in life is actually because of their own behavior.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: They don't recognize that they are the common denominator in everything going wrong.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Rather, they'll say that their boss is an asshole, everybody's against them.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: They were actually the most talented one at the firm, but everybody just turned against them because of it.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: That sort of thing.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: A non-disordered abuser will demonstrate lack of insight, but it's usually contained to partners, former partners, children and family members.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Personality disordered people will demonstrate distorted thinking.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: This can be all or nothing thinking, overgeneralized thinking, catastrophizing, minimizing and more.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: They tend to be unable to demonstrate flexible ways of thinking.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: This inability to think with nuance and hold space for multiple possibilities at any one time results in an inability to compromise, to see other possibilities, and it can lead to a pattern of black and white thinking and the tendency to jump to inaccurate or irrational conclusions.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Compromise tends to be viewed by personality disordered people as losing, and if they aren't winning which is getting exactly what they want or what they think they deserve, the cognitive distortion is that they are therefore losing and the other person is winning.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: The other person in the mind of the personality disordered person is therefore trying to control and dominate them.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: These distortions can then lead to inappropriate behavior, including abuse, and the personality disordered person is then able to justify to themselves and others this bad behavior because of this cognitive distortion.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: So they might be thinking to themselves that they have every right to do what they're doing because that other person is taking everything away from them and is trying to dominate and control them.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Understandably, distorted thinking in a former partner can make separation, divorce and co-parenting very difficult.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Before working with me, many of my clients have found themselves repeatedly complying with the demands of their former partner simply in an attempt to reduce the conflict.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Once you've separated from a high conflict person, and particularly a personality disordered person, you've then fallen out of favor with them and you might then be regarded as all bad Again.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: This ties in with the black and white thinking.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: They don't tend to think about the grey areas.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: They don't tend to be able to hold space for more than one truth at any one point in time.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: So, instead of recognising that someone is generally a nice person but might occasionally do something that they don't like, instead they view people as either all good or all bad, and after separation, if your former partner is personality disordered, you are then usually in the all bad category, which then, as far as your former partner is concerned, gives them permission in their own minds to cause immense psychological, emotional, mental, financial, legal and or physical harm to you.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Distorted thinking results in personality disordered people having inaccurate and irrational thoughts and emotions, which they will then often accept as being fact, and they'll use that as a justification for inappropriate or abusive behavior.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Personality disordered people will often demonstrate extreme, unacceptable behaviors.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: They tend to have really anti-social ways of dealing with issues and conflict, as opposed to pro-social approaches that are acceptable to most people, and this really ties in with what we were touching on earlier, both in this episode and in part one, where I was mentioning the fact that personality disordered people don't pick and choose who they're going to behave really badly with.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: They don't tend to have that skill.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: At some point in time, they will likely behave badly with most people that they come into contact with, and that's different to non-disordered abusers.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: So what I'm about to say about extreme, unacceptable behaviours, this is what personality disordered people will do in situations with anyone and everyone, whereas a non-disordered abuser would behave in an unacceptable way behind closed doors or only with family members.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So, again, personality disordered people tend to have very antisocial ways of dealing with things, meaning ways of dealing with situations that most people would not think is appropriate, and this exists on a bit of a sliding scale.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Some things that I've seen from former partners of clients and these are former partners who I think likely have at least one personality disorder behaviours such as forging documents, forging signatures, using the letterhead of professionals, inappropriately targeting professionals who have not bought into their victim narrative, so reporting principals and teachers to the Department of Education and trying to get them sacked, reporting doctors, psychologists, any other professional in the medical field to APRA and other associations, again in order to sabotage that person's career.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: These are the sorts of extreme things that personality disordered people will do if they believe that they have been thwarted.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: They are very, very easily offended.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Anything that they perceive to be criticism can lead them to become unrelentingly focused on that other person, and they can then make it their mission to destroy that person's credibility, destroy that person's livelihood those sorts of things.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: That's the sort of stuff that personality disordered people do.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: So just to recap on what we've discussed in terms of these main traits common to most personality disordered people, there is a pattern of blaming others and having an unrelenting focus on either one target of blame or sometimes more than one target of blame, demonstrating a significant lack of insight.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: That is, being unable to connect the dots regarding the results that they're experiencing in their own life and their own behavior, and how their own behavior has contributed to what they're experiencing.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Distorted thinking, black and white thinking, catastrophizing and emotional reasoning so having an emotion about something and then perceiving that to be a fact and extreme, unacceptable behaviors, antisocial ways of dealing with issues and conflict that would be viewed as being unacceptable and inappropriate by most people.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Again, if someone has a personality disorder, they likely have other people in their life that they have demonstrated these traits to People that go beyond partners, former partners, children and family members.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me for this episode.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I hope that you've found some of the information contained in both part one and part two useful in your own situation, whether you think your former partner has a personality disorder or not.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Please be very wary of purchasing cookie cutter one size fits all approaches to separation, divorce, co-parenting and communication.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I've seen so many women unknowingly harm their position and harm their case because they've applied something that has not been suitable for their specific situation.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned in part one, one example that really comes to mind with this is utilising grey rock communication.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: It has backfired on so many people because their situation has gone to court and communication from them has been scrutinised by court professionals.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: If you are currently in the court system or you want to make sure that you're not inadvertently harming your case, if things do progress to court, please reach out.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: My specialised strategic approach helps women to optimise their overall outcome whether things go to court or not.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: But if you're in the court system or if you think that's a possibility for you.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: You really do need to take all of this so much more seriously.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: It's so much easier to put the right things in place early on than what it is to fix things after they've already gone wrong.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: And, as I mentioned, how you present to a court, child expert or family consultant the things you say, being able to prepare and plan for the questions that you're going to be asked All of those things are so crucially important and they're things that I help my clients with, and my clients have been having fantastic results.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: That's what I want for you, too, and that's what I want for your kids.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: That's what I want for you, too, and that's what I want for your kids, and that's why I do this work.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: There are so many things about this system that I dislike.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: There's so many things that I would change if I could, but because I don't have the power to change the system.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Instead, what I do is to help women understand the system and teach them how to use aspects of the system to their advantage, to teach you how to work within the system to optimize your outcome, and my view is that that needs to be done on a case-by-case basis.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It needs to be specific to what you're dealing with, and that's exactly the support that I'm here to provide you.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: This journey is not always easy, but you don't have to do it alone.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me this week.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.