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The Book of Enoch Part 1 · The Occult Rejects

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  Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen. What what's gonna happen?
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  Speaker 1: I think what I am.
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  Speaker 2: Hopefully this planet that we seem to be subsiding upon.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And yeah, if you want to check out any of
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: my links, you can go to link tree and just
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  Speaker 2: uh link tree r M A r X and that'll
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  Speaker 2: pull up all my miscellaneous uh social media pages, my website,
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  Speaker 2: my Patreon, my YouTube, everything.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, awesome, Well, thank you so much, Robbie. And
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  Speaker 1: it has been although I in fairness, I have you
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  Speaker 1: worked with you several times since you lost on this show,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: but it has in a while since you had your
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: You know, when I first started really the show, you
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  Speaker 1: were really one of my first really I chose people
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  Speaker 1: that I thought would give a good foundation for what
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  Speaker 1: could come later, even though I didn't fully understand what, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: what that would be. But you know, it has developed
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  Speaker 1: into something more than I thought it was. So I
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  Speaker 1: think to have you come back, it's it's like the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: right time, it's it's we can sort of do I
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  Speaker 1: think you I mean, I hope you want to still
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: want to do a series, and so yeah, yeah, when
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: you came to me to do this idea, I was
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: like Yeah, this is exactly the kind of work, podcasting
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  Speaker 1: work I want to be doing. This is like with
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: people like you, who has been someone I thought was
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  Speaker 1: you know, awesome and just a great researcher from for
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  Speaker 1: so long. So to do this, I think is really cool.
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  Speaker 1: So why don't you introduce I guess everyone else to
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  Speaker 1: the topics.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, when we look at at the expansive movement of
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  Speaker 2: Eastern and Western theology, one of the foundational books within
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  Speaker 2: the UH the whole idea of the Biblical canon, is
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  Speaker 2: the Book of Enoch. And it's a very intriguing and
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  Speaker 2: interesting book it. You know, if you wanna, I would
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  Speaker 2: encourage everyone out there to go pick up the Books
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  Speaker 2: of Enoch. The book, the first Book of Enoch is
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  Speaker 2: the Ethiopic or from Ethiopia, and it's basically it dates
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  Speaker 2: to the second century BC, and it comes from possibly
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  Speaker 2: an earlier, earlier oral tradition. And then there's the second
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  Speaker 2: Book of Enoch, which is the Slavonic Secrets of Enoch.
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  Speaker 2: And then there's the third Book of Enoch, which is
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  Speaker 2: the Judaic Book of Enoch. Now, the book we're gonna
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  Speaker 2: specifically be talking about here, the First Book of Enoch,
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  Speaker 2: we're gonna do a show on each book of Enoch one,
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  Speaker 2: two and three. And the first Book of Enoch was
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  Speaker 2: considered to be an authentic Jewish text that remained popular
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  Speaker 2: in its time for at least some five hundred years,
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  Speaker 2: so it's considered to be one of the earliest Ethiopian texts.
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  Speaker 2: It's thought that it was derived from a Greek text. Interestingly,
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  Speaker 2: because you have that interplay between Greece and Egypt and
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  Speaker 2: going back and forth of all these philosophers to basically
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  Speaker 2: go and instill themselves and learn the mysteries that are
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  Speaker 2: coming out of you know, you have the mysteries of Egypt.
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  Speaker 2: You have the mysteries of Phrygia, which Phrygia interacted greatly
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  Speaker 2: with Greece, and then you have the mysteries of Syria.
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  Speaker 2: And there's otheries, but these are some of the more
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  Speaker 2: substantial ones that we can kind of trace down through
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  Speaker 2: the ages. And that Greek text that it was translated
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  Speaker 2: from is believed to be copied from an earlier Aramaic text,
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  Speaker 2: so it's got quite the history.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 1: What I find really interesting about you know, is that
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  Speaker 1: it has these layers of you could say, as you know,
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  Speaker 1: I am a Central Asianist in my sort of worldview,
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  Speaker 1: how I think of the mystery schools or the esoteric traditions.
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  Speaker 1: I think it comes from a place probably under some
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  Speaker 1: kind of Persian or pre proto Persian influence in Central Asia.
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  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily posit. Have to be careful how I
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  Speaker 1: say this, Robbie. I don't posit necessarily a racial component
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  Speaker 1: to it, simply because you can recognize that there are
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  Speaker 1: bloodline that went off and then became completely other things.
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  Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily racialize it because even the Tibetans
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  Speaker 1: might consider certain families in Tibet that might consider themselves
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  Speaker 1: like descendants of some of these Persian sort of proto
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  Speaker 1: Persian priests or these Turkish priests whatever. So that's why
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  Speaker 1: I don't just because I look at it more in
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  Speaker 1: that Central Asian it's like Hapaborea, everybody's kind of mixed
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  Speaker 1: race and you can't you can't, there's not a clear delineation.
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  Speaker 1: So that's just how I look at it. But I
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  Speaker 1: think it's really interesting because the book actually shows these
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  Speaker 1: multiple layers of cultural influence, and you can see that
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  Speaker 1: it was used by multiple cultural groups.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, and what's interesting is this was the
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  Speaker 2: originally from the time of Ethiopia in regard to the
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  Speaker 2: line of Menilek, the descendants of kings coming down with
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  Speaker 2: Queen of Sheba when she was essentially some say exiled,
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  Speaker 2: some say left because of the turmoil and the trauma
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  Speaker 2: that was going on with all his miscellaneous wives and concubines.
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  Speaker 2: But she basically brought this Book of Enoch with her
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  Speaker 2: into Ethiopia, and it was early on within Christianity it
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  Speaker 2: was considered really as an inspired work. But then as
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  Speaker 2: time went on, you have King James basically when he
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  Speaker 2: reformulated the Bible and took it from seventy eight seventy
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  Speaker 2: two books and reduced it down to sixty six books,
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  Speaker 2: which is the current state of the King James Bible now,
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  Speaker 2: where they essentially said that the Book of Enoch was apocryphal.
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  Speaker 2: And what's interesting is when you're going through the Biblical canon,
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  Speaker 2: I believe Jesus mentions the Book of Enoch, and there's
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  Speaker 2: I think three or four separate mentions of the Book
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  Speaker 2: of Enoch within what is considered to be canonical. So
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  Speaker 2: in order to understand a lot of the Bible itself
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  Speaker 2: and why the kind of story goes the way it goes.
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  Speaker 2: This background within Enoch kind of gives you the essential
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  Speaker 2: footing and understanding of the philosophical elements that built into
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  Speaker 2: and turned into modern day Judaism and Christianity and even Islam.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so you touched on three really interesting components.
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  Speaker 1: This idea of the extra textual references in the Bible.
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  Speaker 1: I think that that's obvious, not just for the Book
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  Speaker 1: of Enoch, but also for the Book of Jubileese. We
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  Speaker 1: can say that a little bit in Genesis, right, there's
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  Speaker 1: clearly a difference between Genesis one and then Genesis two. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: the King James. So I did want to touch on this.
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  Speaker 1: So in terms of magic, the King James is kind
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  Speaker 1: of the I guess the we'll say, the standard text
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  Speaker 1: for the medieval or hermetic magician. And so my theory
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  Speaker 1: or I guess my not theory, it's a little more
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  Speaker 1: concretized than that, maybe even, but I think that there
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  Speaker 1: is some metaphysical component that is retained in the King James.
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  Speaker 1: However flawed the trimming, the haircut it received was. I
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  Speaker 1: think that there's still something in it that is useful.
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  Speaker 1: But like you say, I think this also serves like
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  Speaker 1: a metaphysical reason, like numerology of reducing the book from
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  Speaker 1: to sixty six and then originally seventy two, Well that's
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  Speaker 1: the reduction from the nine. So the nine is a
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  Speaker 1: very important Hebrew Cabala number, but definitely the twelve is
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  Speaker 1: a much more important Christian Cabala number. So I think
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  Speaker 1: that that's why. Also you have like a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of discrepancy. You're sort of taking it from one mysticism
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  Speaker 1: into a related but different also different sort of mess.
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  Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, I would agree with that definitely. And
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  Speaker 2: what's funny is with King James when you look at him,
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  Speaker 2: the same time that they were reformulating the Biblical canon,
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  Speaker 2: King James also released at the same time a book
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  Speaker 2: on demonology and how to find and basically control and
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  Speaker 2: slay demons.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: So King James, you know, had a as far as eschatological,
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  Speaker 2: he had a wide expand and and you know the
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  Speaker 2: fact that he's putting out a book on demonology, and
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  Speaker 2: when you trace back into the Book of Enoch, it's
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  Speaker 2: the ideas that these these fallen angelic forces or these
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  Speaker 2: fall and energetic forces from higher realms that basically came
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  Speaker 2: into our realm and mate it with the earth women,
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  Speaker 2: and that those offspring were the vessels from where the
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  Speaker 2: demons come from.
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  Speaker 3: For them to.
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  Speaker 2: Disclude and take that out of the Bible and to
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  Speaker 2: give you know, no no formal reference to that is
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  Speaker 2: an interesting overall prospect of of you know, all kinds
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  Speaker 2: of different possibilities.
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  Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, and I don't want to jump too
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  Speaker 1: far ahead, but I and I know you will cover this,
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  Speaker 1: but I just want to say this because I can
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  Speaker 1: get responds really well to what you said. Is the
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  Speaker 1: astronomical Book of one Enoch or the Book of Heavenly Luminaries,
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  Speaker 1: So I'm not that familiar with it. I've read it
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  Speaker 1: for us to do this conversation, but it's not like
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  Speaker 1: I didn't study it, but for me to remove the
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  Speaker 1: astrolo logical and cosmological mapping, and because it gives such
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  Speaker 1: important numerology, I mean, the numerology is maybe the best
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  Speaker 1: contained in these astronomical and cosmological sort of mapping, so
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  Speaker 1: it's it can be I think that it is very
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  Speaker 1: obfus skating. Like we spoke a little bit about this yesterday,
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  Speaker 1: well maybe not yesterday. When this episode comes out but
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  Speaker 1: yesterday is in when we're data record. So about the
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  Speaker 1: occulting of the astrological mysteries, you said this, and I
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  Speaker 1: thought it was super I had honestly never thought of
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  Speaker 1: it quite like that. But there does seem to be
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  Speaker 1: at least even a tripartite understanding of astrology, like yes, okay,
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  Speaker 1: So for my example, we have Joe Tish, So that's
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  Speaker 1: like the exterior astrology that everybody kind of knows and
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  Speaker 1: talks about on Twitter. But then we also have two
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  Speaker 1: more layers of tantric astrology, which are very different in fact,
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  Speaker 1: which have much more I would say that the practices
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  Speaker 1: associated with them are much more theological, are much more
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  Speaker 1: onto logical. Even so they don't necessarily match up with
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  Speaker 1: this like popular idea of what astrology is. It's it's
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  Speaker 1: like something much deeper. And so the planets also take
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  Speaker 1: on a sort of different tone, like that different sort
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  Speaker 1: of nature, Like they're seen not as so arconic, and
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  Speaker 1: they're neither seen as so deified. It's neither. It's kind
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  Speaker 1: of neither nor. It's just like, yeah, they are forces
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  Speaker 1: that can sometimes oppose us, and sometimes we can also
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  Speaker 1: utilize elements of what they embody to sort of climb
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  Speaker 1: the tree or move up the ladder, you know, move
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  Speaker 1: across the floorboards or whatever.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, and well, and so now I think
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  Speaker 2: one of the essential things to really kind of keep
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  Speaker 2: in mind when looking at the Book of Enoch is
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  Speaker 2: that this is the evolving Zervanism or the Zoroastrinism that
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  Speaker 2: is inflecting coming into the Judaic or the the African
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  Speaker 2: you know, Egyptian thought essentially, and when you go back
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  Speaker 2: to Zorasterra, you know, he's the one that basically is
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  Speaker 2: behind the ideas of the angels, that each individual has
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  Speaker 2: a personal angel, that each city, town, the planet itself
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  Speaker 2: has its own angel, just as well as the sun
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  Speaker 2: and all the miscellaneous luminary bodies have they that that
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  Speaker 2: the stars are essentially angels themselves. So when you know,
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  Speaker 2: when you compare uh Zoroastrianism and how that's phase shifting
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  Speaker 2: into as far as the Book of Enoch being the
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  Speaker 2: early Judaic philosophy, we can kind of see the the
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  Speaker 2: changes that are subtly happening as this culture is evolving
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  Speaker 2: and moving.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're totally speaking my language, Robbie, because I
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  Speaker 1: think you also know this is that I'm very interested
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  Speaker 1: in Zoroastrianism because I personally think that there is an
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  Speaker 1: incredible route, maybe maybe that the primary route even is
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  Speaker 1: found in it, or even in a proto Zoroastrianism, but
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  Speaker 1: definitely in the later of vest in Bundhusen is Jervinight,
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  Speaker 1: there's something that is that is contained in that that
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  Speaker 1: it appears certainly in many magical or esoteric or mystery
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  Speaker 1: traditions I think far ranging. So yeah, that is really
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  Speaker 1: I thought it was really well said. And then I
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  Speaker 1: do want to ask your opinion on because there's this
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  Speaker 1: idea that a popular idea will say that Diaster rejected
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  Speaker 1: all the worship of all devas. But when I looked
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  Speaker 1: at some of the later writings, it wasn't quite clear
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  Speaker 1: to me if it was a rejection of all the devas.
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  Speaker 1: But there seemed to be the state prescribed lists of
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  Speaker 1: like devas that were still acceptable to perform certain what
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  Speaker 1: we would call yazhnik or like maybe Vedic style rites
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  Speaker 1: for but most devas were excluded, but they had like
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  Speaker 1: a small it was sort of like a quelling of
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  Speaker 1: the god list or god and demon list, so they
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  Speaker 1: could not necessarily control it in a centralized way, but
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  Speaker 1: they could have a central cult of their culture. And
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  Speaker 1: then also they because how I understand it is that
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  Speaker 1: people were sort of wildly worshiping many things that appeared
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  Speaker 1: in the world, so like demons, Yaksha's hosts, I know,
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  Speaker 1: the you know, in Judaism, this was a big thing,
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  Speaker 1: was that people were worshiping the well they called them
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  Speaker 1: the seven traditional luminaries, but often it was really nine.
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  Speaker 1: And so they would have these sort of metallic statues
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  Speaker 1: of the angels, and they would worship those statues over God,
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  Speaker 1: over this idea more monistic or e f emerald God,
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  Speaker 1: which is really more what the deeper esoteric idea of
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  Speaker 1: God in the Old Testament is, even though he is
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  Speaker 1: often portrayed as the angry kind of storm God.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, well I think he was an evolving
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  Speaker 2: God form, you know. But yeah, as far as that
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  Speaker 2: in the in the biblical sense, they generally would call
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  Speaker 2: this the backsliders. As far as the the practicing Jews
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  Speaker 2: that would fall away from supplicating worshiping anana ishtar, essentially
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  Speaker 2: the Queen of the heavens, which has to do with
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  Speaker 2: the idea of those luminary bodies interact and reflect upon
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  Speaker 2: the earth plane itself.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: The other thing, when you really get into studying Enoch
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  Speaker 2: and the correspondences with Zoraster, there's a huge body of
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  Speaker 2: work that believes that Enoch was Zoraster and Zorastra was Enoch,
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  Speaker 2: so that I find very interesting as well.
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  Speaker 1: No, that's incredibly interesting. So I'll respond to both of
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: those components and then I'll let you move on. But
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  Speaker 1: I think, okay, so obviously I've told you this before,
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  Speaker 1: Tara ish Tar, I feel like there's even like the
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  Speaker 1: entomological connection is undeniable, the meaning connection is undeniable, even
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  Speaker 1: the association with the number two, sort of like as
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  Speaker 1: the consort but also as the queen, so she's kind
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  Speaker 1: of there, and then she's also kind of not there.
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  Speaker 1: She's both transcendent and eminent, but then we also know
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  Speaker 1: God is also there, but it's so it's nebulous, and
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  Speaker 1: that's kind of what tara Uma is also very much
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  Speaker 1: like in the Piranhas. So I think that that's really interesting.
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  Speaker 1: And obviously the Tibetan mythos is that the star self
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  Speaker 1: combus so when that happens, fifty one pieces of the
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  Speaker 1: you could say the meteorite or the star or the
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  Speaker 1: goddess herself all fell to earth, and then the shakti
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  Speaker 1: pizza pizzas or the sort of places of the divine
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  Speaker 1: feminine force, like each body part became like an object
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  Speaker 1: of worship. So I do think that this fits with
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  Speaker 1: the Ishtar myth and her sort of corpus being the kingdom,
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  Speaker 1: at least in Babylon where they had the Gate of Ishtar.
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  Speaker 1: So there's like an association where she is the actual walls,
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  Speaker 1: the fortress, the nets oc she's kind of like the
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  Speaker 1: she's the physical thing, and then she's also the corpus
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  Speaker 1: of ideas. That sort of makes it a polity.
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  Speaker 2: Right well, you know, and when we can take us
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  Speaker 2: into what the Book of Enoch is really all about, it's,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Enoch being the representative of humankind itself.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Enoch was said to have lived three hundred and sixty
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  Speaker 2: five years, which is essentially the number of days in
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the year. So there's this correspondence there, you know, between
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  Speaker 2: the earth it's and the man itself.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: But interestingly, Enoch details the fall of these these grigory
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  Speaker 2: you know, these gregory or these fallen angels that basically
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  Speaker 2: came down, fell away in the heavens and came down
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  Speaker 2: to Earth and landed on Mount Hermon, and they basically,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, I've read some texts that they
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: came to stop the involution of flesh, so that basically
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: no more souls would fall into the gross manner of
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: creation being matter itself. But I've also read some other
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: stories where essentially there's wars in the heaven and they
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: turn against God and basically come here in the name
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: of creating a kingdom for themselves. Because the idea is
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: and you get this in the Bahadvagita. You see the
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: stories in several places where after humanity is created, they
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: are essentially a higher form of entity within the universe
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  Speaker 2: over the angelic forces. So the newly created humans have
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  Speaker 2: this ability to transubstantiate, to basically move between all the
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  Speaker 2: realms of the mansions of the heavens, you know. So
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  Speaker 2: it's it's the idea of you know, transubstantiation, which the
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  Speaker 2: angels can't do. They're more hard found, they're more watching
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  Speaker 2: over things, and basically they were told to bow down
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  Speaker 2: to the humans. And you know, there's the whole story
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  Speaker 2: of Lucifer, and he's like and even in the Bahad Vagita,
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  Speaker 2: you know, they're like we we have associated with humans long.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we've been here before humans, we've associated with
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  Speaker 2: them since they got here, and basically they're the ones
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  Speaker 2: that should be bound down to us. So there's this
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  Speaker 2: intrinsic counterplay between what forms are higher and the levels
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  Speaker 2: of creation. And these are embittered forces that basically came
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: to earth and sought to corrupt humankind and what it was.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so I did recall what I wanted to say.
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  Speaker 1: So the thing about Enoch is this interesting because you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: could say that I know you know this, Robbie. So
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  Speaker 1: I'm just saying this for for the pleaves out there.
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  Speaker 1: But Enoch can also be Adam, Cadmon. Enoch can also
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  Speaker 1: be saying I grew up Catholic, so saying to Elijah
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  Speaker 1: is how I would think of it, But it's Elijah
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  Speaker 1: the prophet. And then also Metatron can also be Enoch.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there's like a there's like a throughway well
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: into the New Testament. Even and say John the Baptist,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I've heard that before. I've heard Jesus, you know, the
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: reincarnation of Enoch. I'm not saying it's liturgical or Orthodox,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: but I think that there are have been ideas percolating
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: for a long time. And then I also thought he
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: was interesting you brought up the bagvad Gita, because this
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: idea of Christiana consciousness has come up so often, I
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: think in a parapolitical way, in a theosophical way. And
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: then also like, what does that mean, because that does
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: seem to be a rather potent, maybe governing. I want
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: to I'm going to call it a cult, but I'm not.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: It's non pejorative.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Spread them edge, right, It's.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Like it's Krishna consciousness, but Christiana consciousness, interestingly, is also
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: tied to the theosophical idea of christ consciousness, right, And
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: they have a deep relationship and they're almost they're almost
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: not distinct. There might be differences, slight subtle differences in
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: like the cosmology, but very very closely related. So I
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: think that there is this idea in Buddhism definitely that
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: this is our world for sure, and that we are
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: meant to forge ourselves, we are meant to follow a path. Now,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I think that in terms of subjugation, I think this
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: is really interesting because early early contra early Buddhist mantra
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: really started out as a Yaksha cult, so a cult.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: This is not not everybody agrees with this, so let
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: me just preface by saying that, but there are some
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: French scholars who have been talking about this for quite
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: a while. Is that there's a lot of evidence that
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of the Mahayana temples in India. India used
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to be almost completely Mahayana, with interestingly enough some Zoroastrian
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: temples at the same period. So they so at this
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: period it was all mostly Buddhists Mahayana. And so at
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: these monasteries they would practice tantra at night, and so
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: they would learn subjugation rituals to subjugate these kind of
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: geniuses or angelic beings or even lower devas or demons
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: or multiple things, and so to protect the monastery. So
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it started off as like a practical form of spirit
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: magic and then also became like apotheosized by saying, okay,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: we can take these ideas because the yaksha don't just
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: exist in the lake, They don't just exist in the trees,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: they don't just exist in heaven. They also exist inside
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of you in portion. And so and interestingly with the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: bagva Ghida. A tontric way to underunderstand that is that
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Krishna is his own He's sort of the vehicle that
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: produces the Assurans. So his own interaction with reality, his sin,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: his preconceptions, his own delusions. They they all serve to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: create the Assuras, who are really the gods, but just
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the shadow sort of the shadow of them. I know,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I just upset a lot of Indians on Twitter.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Let me just say, well, and and that's the whole thing,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: you know, with all of this, it's you know, I
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I say it frequently. It's all very fractaligne. It's all
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: very dependent upon where these thought forms are picked up
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: and the current understandings that reflect upon them, you know.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: So it's you know, I think that philosophy of eschatology
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: is you know, quite the fractal in regard to how
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: it develops and moves and turns, and you know, the
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: different shifting opinions and views depending upon you know, the
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: background of who views the subject matter. You know, it's
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: much like history itself, you know. But now the these
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: angels in an attempt to corrupt humanity on on Mount Hermon.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: When they came down, there was twenty of them, and
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: they were the leaders over the other minions. But these
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: twenty base angels came down and it was Shimyaza that
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: basically was like, you know, we need to go into
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: the you know, humanity and basically take wives of the men,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: you know, basically take the women, the earth women as
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: wives for ourselves. And you know, he's like, but I'm
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: not sure that all of you are up to this,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: you know, so you know, maybe you don't want to participate.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And they were like, oh no, you know, we're all
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: down to go and and try to end humanity.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: And corrupt it.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: And they took curse that they cursed one another and
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: took oaths and basically set about to corrupt you know,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: the the human element by going in and impregnating the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: earth women. It was said that they looked into the
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: mysteries while they were in the heavens and basically taught
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: them to humankind. It was said that they taught them
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: root magic and how to use herbs and different roots,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: that they taught them make up, how to basically you know,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: doll yourself up for for sexual means. One of them
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: taught the swords of death and how to slay infants
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: in the womb. You know, there's a whole variety of
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: things that they come and teach humanity that basically help
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: humanity to hurt itself.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: This is very interesting because this is a very Buddhist
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: idea as well, Robbie. Is that the idea that the
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: maras these things, they exist in us, like these demons
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in the outside world that are teaching us bad things.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: That's also our own impulse to learn these things. It's
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: not just right, it's not there's not a it's not
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: just that they are sure, sure, there's a supernatural layer.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: But then you can also think of it in this
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: more maybe psychoanalytical, even though I don't like that phrase,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: but yeah, there's something like in you that is the impulsive.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: It's just that drag coonic energy, that sort of impulse
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: to do something that's not necessarily good or bad. It
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: has nor moral value. But yeah, I think that that
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: that correlates very well to the pironic understanding of like
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: these asuras and and sometimes the devas themselves, oftentimes the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: devas because oftentimes the ass are given magical boons, right,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: like a lot of the assas and all the pranas
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: they always have like some boon of immortality, boon of
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: cannot be slayed by any god or any weapon or
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: any that's so then it requires like even more ferocious form,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: It requires even more energy, more sacrifice to destroy it.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's very cyclical and very co creative, I
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: would say, m yeah.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now with let's see, it said all corrupted. Yeah,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: all the people on the earth at the time were
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: corrupted by the teachings of as a Zell And basically
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: this was the point at which God decided, you know.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And we get this with Jupiter talking about flooding the earth.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: We get this with the biblical texts in regard to
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Noah and the deluge. But nonetheless, you know, there's these
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: multiple stories through different various community detects that basically talk
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: about the people on the earth were becoming a problem.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: You get this in the Mayan text as well, and
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: that basically they're gonna flood the earth to wipe out
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: all of the corruption, to basically cleanse the.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Earth, you know.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And uh, as a result, one of the angels comes
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: down and takes Enoch on a night journey to basically
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: warn him about the coming deluge because of the corruption
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: on the face of the earth.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: So this is actually something I wanted to touch on
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: with you. Is that so the the fallen angels, so
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: they are also known as the bene Elohim. Is that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: is that the Alochim is one of the names of God,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that is at just said, or Jupiter, which is also
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: associated with the ocean, with water and with destruction by water. So,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: but it's also associated with God's sort of full expression
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: of mercy as much as it can be in the
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: lower worlds. So but they're still higher, so it's still
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it's like it's like it's like a realm, you know this,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: but it's a realm above us. And so that is
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: often where I think. I think, like if you're going
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to trace it, sometimes people stay saturn. But I actually
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: think that this idea of Jupiter and what that is
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: is so fundamental, especially to Abrahamic religion, Especiallyism and Christianity,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: especially those two, maybe less so with Islam. But I
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: think that this idea of that force of water, of like,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: you know, you have committed sins, so we are just
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: going to cleanse it. We're going to wash you away.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: There's an interesting book I forgot who it's by that
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: it's called free Catholicism and Freemasonry. It's from the early
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. I'm sure you're familiar with it.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe maybe he talks.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: A lot about the Christian Kabbala of these sort of concepts,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and then he placed azazel as with as analogous to Samuel.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying I disagree or agree, but I'm just
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: he that's his positioning. And so he said it was
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: at Guevera or Mars. So then there's this other obviously
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: interesting idea of the fire in the sort of outpouring
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: of heat, and yes, that's what Mars definitely does. But
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: there's also this idea in Kabala that you cannot just said,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: or the ocean always has to be in synthesis with
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Geverra because you don't want the overproduction of heat or
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: the flooding of the world, like they have to work
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: together in the synthesis. So I think that there's also
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: something interesting with that in looking at what you said
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: even earlier about how they would take human wives, because
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: there is something of synthesis. There is some and that
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: is very the story of humanity, whether you want to
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: take it as more of a you know, racial story
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: like a like the theosophical way, like the five roots
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: or whatever, or you can take of it as more
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: of like we are just a shifting population and we
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: always have been in many ways. I'm not saying that
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: there's a cultural management and all of that, but I
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: think that we you know, I think we are much
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: more in many ways interrelated then we're not. And what
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: divides us is a lot more ideological, so sort of
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: the bullshit layer more than that.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: And those derisions, you know, if you go back into
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the text, they seem like they've been to a great extent,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: you know, created to cause derision between It's much like
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the Tower of Babel when all the tongue was divided
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: so that we couldn't talk to, you know, one another anymore.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's a very interesting concept. But but as
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: far as these these watchers taking wives of earth women,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: you know, the Bible says, you know, they came into
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: them and then they was giants on the earth in
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: those days, and if you read the Book of Enoch,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: it talks about that the mothers became pregnant and these
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: giants in the belly basically were too big, so they
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: ripped out of the side, which is where we get
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: the idea of the Cesarean section, the Caesar. Caesar was
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: born through Cesarean section. There was a big at one
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: point in Roman history there was the idea that if
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: you were born through Cesarean section, that you were somehow
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: more tied to the ideas of what the godheads were
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: or the fallen ones in regard to the power element itself.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And also we see who is it a Shiva when
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: she comes down? She doesn't come down, but she's born
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: to the side as well. So and Lucifer or pain
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: you know, he walked to the So there's this whole
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: idea about moving to the side through the histories versus
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: coming you know, through the central passage, you know, which
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I think esoterically speaks, you know, to many concepts on
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: many levels.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: You know, No, you're you're, you're one hundred percent correct.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: He was thinking of that image of Durga. Today is
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: the twenty second and so it's a chikini day and
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: so for for any Buddhists out there. And it's also
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Libchen Dutch in which is when the Buddha went up
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to heaven and spoke to the thirty three gods in heaven.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: And then after three days he descended back down this
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: ladder with thirty three rungs on it, right, and he
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: and so the gods bowed down to him. Those gods
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: bound down to a man, and Buddha is a man.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Like that's you know, that's the whole idea of that.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And so it was Diraster, I think, like when you're
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: looking at these because Buddhism, especially early Buddhism, So this
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: isn't my kind of Buddhism, but this is the early Buddhism.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: There's a deep relationship between Zoroastrianism, especially the early Zorastrianism,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: like what more Diaster was talking about, and the early
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: sort of Shramanic forest tradition Buddhism for sure. So yeah, totally,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: that's a really interesting idea and just a sort of synchronousity,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: he will say, of the day. But I was thinking
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: of the Durga, how she stands upon the buffalo, but
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: the buffalo herd. The spear that she holds is pointed
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: directly like into a certain particular place on the buffalo.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: But it's not its head, it's not its neck, it's
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: sort of in this underside, like very mythraic like in
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: the side, but the buffalo is really a personification of
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the with a name. So and when you're doing the
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: mantra droppa for Durga, you offer one mantra, just one
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: one to the to the asura in recognition that he
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: is serving his sort of divine or cosmic function in
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: the whole cycle. So his life and rebirth as a
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: demon is sort of propagated so we can worship.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And and now interestingly
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: you talk about the thirty three Rung Ladder and the
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: thirty three heavenly entities very much along those same lines.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Enoch with his night journey, and the night journey itself
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: is something that we see culturally. You know, Jacob has
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: a night journey we have which results in the Jacob's
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Ladder very much the latter story again there, and you know,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: just over and over we see these different individuals that
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: are visited by higher you know, angelic per se forces
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: and they take them into the heavens and show them
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: the workings of the manifest universe. And and Enoch may
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: be one of the earliest stories where we have, you know,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: one of these night journeys and it says that, uh,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: you know, these uh, these beings that came to see
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: him were as flaming fire, and they basically took him
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: into the heavens and showed him, you know, how the
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: winds work. They showed him the pillars of heavens. They
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: show him the different gates of all the miscellaneous planetary
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: bodies and how they work. And then they take Enoch
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: into the Great Abyss, right, and they tell they tell
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Enoch that basically these grigory or these angels that you know,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: have had sex with women, that they'll be bound here
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: in this realm for some ten thousand years for basically
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: coming in and bastardizing reality.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: You know, No, you're you're one hundred percent right, because
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: that is what magic, and that's what all of the
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: practices that you described were are really about. It's really
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: about changing maya. Maya is like a natural existing force, right.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: It's just the light, the luminous sort of quality of
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: the heavenly bodies, the stars and the sun and the
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: planets that illuminate what we could call the carnal ground,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: but it's also what we could call the garden. So
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: that's just a normal that should be normal. But then
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: it's what the practices that you're talking about is to
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: influence how that light is perceived and undersped So yeah,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I think that you can take this very parapolitically as well,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Like you look at what's going on right now, it's
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: it's it's just a shit show, so right, you know,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: like you can't. It's sort of inseparable from the from
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: the you know, these sort of cosmological allegories, and so
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I think this is what is really interesting about your
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: work in particular, and then sort of what I'm doing
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: in my own in my own way. But yeah, so
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you said all of that.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Now, what's interesting is, uh, when Enoch is in this Abyss,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: and we've talked about the key to the mysteries being
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: these seven stars, right and relating to the Pilates as
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: the key to the mysteries itself. And what's interesting is
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: within Enoch while he is visiting the Abyss, which he
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: basically you know that the angel asks him, you know,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: why are you you know Frey, and in Enoch's like,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: you know, please take me out of this this fearful
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: place because they're in you know, the essentially the Abyss, right,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: and and the Angel takes in not to these seven
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: stars right that are in the Abyss and basically calls
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: it the space between right or in another place they
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: call it the hollow spaces. But and and the Angel
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: tells Enoch at one point that the seven stars that
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: are in the Abyss are the end of reality or
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: or are where our reality, our realm ends. So in
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: the significance of the Tree of Life and the different spheres,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: is this the point at which Malcouth transits into another
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: dimensional realm? I mean, it's just interesting philosophically, you know,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: them talking about these seven star and there's seven mountains
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: made of different metals, you know, there's there's all these
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: different elements of the seven within Enoch itself, you know.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I was curious as to what you think
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: about the whole seven stars being the point of the
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: end of this realm.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm really glad that you asked me for my opinion,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: because I, or at least I have an idea of
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: like the how similar comparative mythought, like the comparative mythology
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: between the two. So we'll just go through it a little.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I know that I've gone over it with you, but
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: for the for the people listening. Well, just I'll go
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: through it quickly. Is there seven star goddesses. They're called
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: the Ashta Matraka or the Supta Matrakra. So it can
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: be a grouping of seven, and it can also be
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: a grouping of eight. So India prefers the seven and
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Nepal slash Tibet preferred the eight. However, the eight is
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: not is not an additional mother. It's actually in reference
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: to the mind born daughter. Okay, so get into that.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: But that's why that there is a sort of a paradox,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: but it's not really a paradox when you understand. So
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: there are seven mothers. The primary mother is the wolf
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: or the bear. She's me bear headed, but it can
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: also be wolf faced goddess, and she is the primordial consort,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: sort of like the Gnostic idea of the falling Sophia,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: and then she transforms into this ferocious figure. But in
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Buddhism she transforms, but then she also serves. Just like
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I said with the asuras, she serves part of the
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: cosmic function, so we don't call her evil per se.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: She just is who she is, and so it's sort
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: of each one represents they're not all animal headed, but
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: you can also say that they're all animal headed. It's
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: one of those things that, yes, they can be depicted
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: as that, or they can be depicted slightly differently. But
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: they're all so they're all related to the Pleiades. They're
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: all star goddesses, and they come down to the material
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: plane in a red sort of a crimson tide, you
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: could say, falling down. And sometimes you see this even
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: in astrological terms. They have the fairy lights, these red
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: lights that sort of descend into the world. That would
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: be exactly how the Mantrakas were understood. If you were
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: to see that, you would say, okay, the seven mothers
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: are descending, and they are seven goddesses of mamos. So
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: it's a Tibetan word it means chaos basically, so they're
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: very chaotic. They are the rulers of the Blood Ocean.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: They're also the producers of the Blood Ocean, particularly the
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: central figure, so who has the wolf's face. So it's
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: just it's very interesting that and then you're also saying
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: they can be it's a hollow space. Well. Some one
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: of the names in the Chance for the Mantrakas are
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: the sunken ones or hollow ones, because the idea is
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: that they they bleed out through menstruation the world like
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the creation, so they're kind of ride husks when they're tiered,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: they're kind of that's why they're ferocious and hungry and
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: looking for destruction. It's not because they want destruction per se,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: but it's because they want to destroy the world so
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: they can liberate what they are, which is really light
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: trapped and matter. They want to light from the matter
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that they find themselves trapped in. But then Buddism we'd
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: also have the layer that it's all conceptual, Like the
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: trap is just conceptual, so once you see through the trap,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: the trap is to know that there's no trap, right, Yes, right,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: so it's just conceptual. But yeah, so they exist. I
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: think that this is very similar. I think that we
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: see the Pleiades be very similar throughout all the cosmology,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: the Greek cosmology, the Egyptian everything. And also I think
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: that they play a really important role in the pranas
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: of raising the Sun of Shiva whose mura which means
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: the sun, so it's very it's like has a very
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: christ like he has a very christ like thing, and interestingly,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: holds us holds a spear, and he's associated with the
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: number six. So but he's also warn so he's also
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: the five. So the Goeburah going into the six, which
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: is different. So you say, like, he's also the eleven.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: He's like, what makes things go up and down? He's
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: like right, So she raises him, and the idea is
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: is that she's also the wife of Shiva. But in
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: that state of consciousness, she doesn't know it. Mad, she's angry,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: so she tells him to She gives him the Book
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: of Tntras or the Book of Spells or the Book
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: of the unmaking names of creation and says, you should
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: study this like your father studies it like I've studied it,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: and then give it to them to the people. He
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: can also like partake in the fruits of this sort
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: of practices, these more orthurgic or more magical mystery school traditions.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: And he said, basically, what happens is he ends up
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: rebelling against the father against she, and he says, like
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: I don't want anything to do with you, like very,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: it's very he has like some daddy issues, clearly, and
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: so he revolts in a way and he splits the
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: tree of knowledge into two distinct parts. So it's the tree.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: They don't call it the tree of knowledge. They call
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: it the tree of the golden mango. But this has
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: the sort of alchemical value of being a tree that
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: is the tree of knowledge. But he splits it in half,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: and so one side falls into the ocean, and the
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: other side is harvested by the whatever, the man, the
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: people who live nearby, and they use it to build
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: their civilization or their or whatever it is. So he
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: he so he became a full from the left. He
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: was a completely left handed deity in the earliest time,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: completely only transgressive practice, but in later time he became
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: only a right handed deity. And I know you'll find
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: this interesting. His mount is a peacock, or as a peacock.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: So this also obviously correlates a lot to the Yazidi deity,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and that, yes, exactly who could be understood to be
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: an expression of a her amazda. And I think there
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: were people who made this connection as well.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've made that connection as well, for sure, for sure.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: And interestingly, you say about these seven you know, feminine
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: deities that are bleeding out reality, you know, and are
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: basically dried husks when you get into the story of
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: the Leviathan. As far as the feminine energy that is
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: some places say preserved in brine, some places say that
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: she assaulted. But I think what it comes down to
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: is the fact that this divine feminine energy has basically
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: sunken into and become a created the salt of the earth,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: which is matter itself, and that that that feminine energy
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: is kind of stuck being reality until the end times,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: when at the feast, at the at the marriage feast,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: at end times, that this entity will basically be eaten
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: by the elect So reality itself will be eaten by
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: the ones that are able to rise above it and
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: nourish them in in the force of moving even higher
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: into higher ascended levels. So I think that's a very
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: interesting comparison there.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: This idea of eating reality, this sort of consumptive force.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: So this often gets ascribed obviously to the Mother and
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: then in the sort of divine feminine in her most
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: ferocious right, not always, but often when she is sort
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: of starved of attention from God the Father, And so
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I I do think it's interesting though, because it doesn't
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: necessarily mean blood or food like you could take it
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: more conceptual there, which is you could say fame is
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: very much like the deification of celebrities, which are now
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: not really as potent as they were like ten years ago.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: But you could say this has a lot to do
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: with the deification of current politicians and sort of how
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: that they are eating reality by what the kids call
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: winning quote unquote, like when they win on social media,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: that's in a way consuming reality because they're consuming the
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: both the love and the hatred from people.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Well, and and you know even the memes Carlson from
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: What's the Parents just don't understand their show.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: Whatever it is.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: But he does that dance where he's all happy and
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: I just saw, you know, some some trump person posting,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: you know how this is how happy they they were
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: in regard to Trumpet. And it's the these creation of
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: these you know, mind cults that basically people really become
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: saturated with and wash themselves in and associate themselves with,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: and that you know, in in many ways, I think
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: it's unhealthy to tie yourself to these machinations of physical reality,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, it.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Is an interesting phenomenon for sure. Back to Enoch Right
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: and the Seven we were talking about the idea of
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: these seven miscellaneous factors. Throughout the Seven Mountains Seven Stars,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Enoch also talks about the watchers coming down and when
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: when he lists out the watchers, there's seven watchers in total,
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: and the watchers are Uri l who is over the
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: world and turmoil and terror. And then you have Raphael,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: who is a whole holy angel over the spirits of men.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: And then you have Raguel, who is the Holy Angel
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: that takes vengeance on the luminaries. And then you have Machael,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: who is the Holy Angel over the virtues of mankind
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: and over chaos. And then you have Sir Akael, who
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: is the Holy Angel over the spirit of who is
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: the sin in the spirit, which I find interesting. And
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: then you have Gabrielle who is the Holy Angel over Paradise,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: the serpents and the Cherubim. And then you have Ramael,
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: who is the Holy Angel who God set over those
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: who rise. So we have seven of the watchers that
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: are essentially you know, and they basically come down and
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: watch reality and watch these missollaneous aspects of reality that
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: they are overseers of. Through the course of the machination
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: and turning of the progression of reality itself.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: So, I mean everything angelology has become a particular fascination
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: of mine, But I just want to say one angel.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, all the angels are worth discussing honestly individually. Yeah,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: but I think that the idea of Gabriel being the
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: angel over Paradise in particular relation to the suffer Yets
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: is really interesting because that book posits that we live
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: on the moon, like where our reality at least happens,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: whether that's conceptual or astrological, right.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: As a reflection is a projection one of the two.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly what you're saying, a Robbie. It can
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: be either or and all the above. So that's really
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: interesting because then it would imply that maybe we'd also
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: live on Paradise if we if we think of it
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: that way, like.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: If we can open to see it.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes exactly. But I also think it's
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: interesting Michael or Mikael as he's yeah, so because he
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: is the prince, right, he is the prince that can
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: move from Mercury up into Tipperate or from Tipparate, So
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: he moves from the prince into like the he's not
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: the king quite the king, but it is there is something.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: He's the lord of the abyss kind of.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: He's over chaos, right, He's over.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: He's standing over chaos, which is exactly what the Sun
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: in that position would be. And also in the Afro
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Syncretic traditions in Kimbonda, he is considered to be the
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: king of the abits like they they would say that
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: he is the first spirit that you sort of contact
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: in Kimbonda, so you can work with the lower spirits
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: in that system, but he is the king of all
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: of them. Now that doesn't make him good or bad.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: It just he is more ferocious in their conception of it.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: But I think it fits. I think he has this
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: dualistic nature exactly like how you described it, Like there's
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: a part of him that, yes, he is just like
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: the Sun is a minor molific like the sun gives
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: us all those civilizational wonders and institutional science and all
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: these things that can be Yeah, it could be great,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: but in the state and all that, but it often
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: there's a seamy underbelly. So and that's very like how
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Michael is, I would say too. And just some more
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: in the true angelology where you're not looking at it
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: as just like, oh, the chair of him are flying
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: around me, protecting me. I mean, you know exactly what.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I'm doing, right, Oh yeah, Well, And the other thing
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I find interesting is when you look at these Messianic
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: cycles through time, we have essentially it's Gabriel that comes
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: down and is the messenger for Enoch, and then by
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: the time you get up to and Gabriel as well
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: comes to Abraham. But by the time you get to
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Mary and Jesus and the Catholicism, you see the messenger
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: changed to Michael or Michael. And then by the time
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: you get to Islam again we see that Mohammad was
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: visited and taken on his night journey by Gabriel as well.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: So we see the shifting range from Gabriel to Michael
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: to Gabriel. And I think it has something to do
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: with masculine versus feminine powers ruling over the planetary element itself.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: I agree with you one hundred percent. And I think
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: it also has a lot to do with solar versus
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: lunar electrical systems, right, because we know in Judaism, like
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: the preferences like God is or time is contained a
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: nine as you sowed, which is the lunar sphere. So
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: you can see right away that like in Judaic esotericism,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: they preference like the lunar schedule. But the Christian and
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: especially the Roman Catholic will say that's the most magical
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: per se. And yeah, probably it is maybe Orthodoxy as well,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: but we'll say, we'll say Christianity or Catholicism in particular,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: is the is the mystic culture decent sort of and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: so to posit it against that, they prefer a solar
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: schedule right almost to the exclusion, to the exclusion of
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: the lunar, exclusion of the feminine. But the feminine is
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: also contained in Mary. So he's a really obviously interesting figure.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: She's lunar. She's always described as standing on the crescent moon.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: She stands on the dragon, or on the serpent, or
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: on the hill of Roses. So you know, she can
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: take different positions in the tree, certainly depending on her form,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: but she also always has this inherent relationship with the moon,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: with this maternity, with the matrilineal lineage, with.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: The water right definitely, definitely another factor that I found
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: interesting in Enoch was after the abyss, Enoch is taken
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: into the heavens and he sees a fire in the
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: west that they say that this fire in the west
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: is the power of all the stars in the heaven.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: All the luminary bodies come from the singular source of
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: power in the west.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Well, in contra, the Buddha of the West is Ami Taba,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: who is red, so he's the red Buddha and his
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: name can be translated as infinite light. But it's in
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: his family, which is the Lotus family. They are in
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: charge of power. That's sort of their metaphysical function. So
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: if you see like a red Dakini, not all Dakinis
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: are in his family, but certain ones that are red,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: or certain male deities that are read. Their function. Their
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: magical function is agnetization subjugation, but not subjugation through force.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: It's subjugation through more of a It's like an overwhelming power,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: and so they not things naturally, sort of recognize that
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: it's too powerful for them to confront, so they subjugate themselves.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: That's more of the idea. So yeah, so I definitely
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: think that this is really important because he is the
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Buddha of the Western carnal ground or the western pure
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: land as well. So it's very much like gavera and
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: how goevera functions as like a pammer that kind of
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: pulls away like a flint lock on a musket. It's
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: the potential is really the gunpowder. So Mars doesn't really
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: have the gunpowder, but it's in what we do as people,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: like it's in the realm of men and dragons, you
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: could say. And so we make this thing, and then
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Mar has the fire the potential to activate it with
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: its like through force, so the movement of the of
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: the mechanism, and then also the.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: Pressure right sort of a cosmic trigger.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly what you undersaid, Okay, yeah.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And then the angels
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: take Enoch to visit the Tree of Life itself, and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: there's a beautiful description of the tree of life in
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: regard to it being scarlet and gold and the entire
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: tree essentially being translucent flames, and it says that the
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: fruit of the tree is for the elect. Again, this
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: idea of the elect at the end of time getting
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: to devour these elements to raise them into higher realms,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: you know, So do.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: You come down on pomegranate as the true kind of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: a side note, but it's just something I often think about.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, when you get into the mysteries, the pomegranate
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: was regarded as the arc. It held all of the
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: gustating kernels of life that would revivify the earth. So
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: symbolically it's a very you know, great symbol, you know
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: for the fruit from the tree of life. I've also
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: heard of ramon, which that's the name of the pomegranate,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: but I've also heard of citrine being a sort of
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: a a like a elongated lemon. I've also heard you know,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: when you and I think, really when you get into
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: the apple, the idea of the apple, that's very Apollyon
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: or dealing with Apollo, because when he came as a Hyperborean,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: when he came down, he brought his medicinal gardens, and
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: he brought the apple tree. And so you know, the
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: and the apple to the druids was seen at just
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: like the oak was seen as the head. It was
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: analogous to the head of the individual, and that the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: all heel or the mistletoe during the winter solstice would
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: essentially sprout where the third eye is within the mind.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: And so the apple tree itself was considered the head,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: whereas the all heel mistletoe was considered as the sprouting
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: and growing of the third eye itself into seeing entire realms.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: So I think there's this a displace Again. This comes
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: down to cultural elements that take what they have at
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: hand and see them as cosmic symbols within the whole.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: And basically you have these different machinations evolving based on
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: the culture aspect of where they are and the things
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: available to them.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: I completely agree, I think, just to respond to the
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: point on the that I cheekily asked you about palme grounds,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: but I also think there is an interesting gnostic text.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. It's called
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: the Epinoia of Nuria. I've been doing what will now
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: be a six part series on this subject on spaces
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: and so one of the ideas in I can't remember
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: if it's in hypothesis, specifically, when the daughter is mentioned,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: so this is the daughter of Eve. It has deep
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: cabalistic connections to the twenty second path, which is the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: path of Lamed. So Lamed me'm dot love is the
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: cause of knowledge, but it also refers to Eve and
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: her heart. So the daughter is the heart of Eve,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and so in the hypothesis. There's an idea that the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Sofia was sexually assaulted, we'll call it by the archons.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: But then when Nuriya goes to confront the angel Ella Leth,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: which is the angel that appears to the daughter specifically, yeah,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: he says, she says to him, oh, the Arkhans threatened
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: to assault me in the same way that they did
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: my mother and make her the horror of Babylon or whatever.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: And so then the angel El says to her, you know,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: the Arkans actually can't do that. The Arkhans can't even
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: assault you. They didn't even assault your mother because everything
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: that they say is a lie. And so what is
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: the well, it's obviously a more Christian gnostic text, but
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: so they say, like the what is the truth? But
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the light of you know, like what is the truth?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: But like the mind of God and the wisdom of
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: the mother, right, and that is embodied in the daughter,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: which is you. And so but there's this other idea
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: that she burned down the arc two times because she
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: found it imperfect, and then on the third time she
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: allowed Noah to carry off, but he did not actually
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: allow her entrance because it was sad that she was
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: actually assaulted by the archons right well.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: And and that gets in you know when you look
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: at the serpent in the garden basically misconstruing the story.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: And you know, and this is the idea of dialectics,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: you know, and playing with our minds through playing one
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: side against the other. You know, that's essentially, I think,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: more than anything, what the story in the Garden is about,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: you know. And and the fact that Adam and Eve,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: or Eve first then feeding the fruit to Adam corrupted,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: you know, the divine couple that once they and it's
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: it's much like the story of the Fall of Lucifer essentially,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: where once you are no longer vibrating in that pure
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: essence of what divine paradise is, and you see you know,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: the one to the zero, the flipping and the flopping
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: back and forth, that essentially because you're no longer resonating
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: in that state and you see the good and you
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: see the evil. That there's that diametric idea of the
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: fall and the create, you know, and it's why within
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: the Jewish texts they talk about, you know, the Eloheim
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: had to make a garment for the divine couple to
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: enter into matter because they were moving from an etheric
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: light form and sinking into a crystallized form, going from
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: the monad and moving into duality.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: This is really an interesting idea which goes a little
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: bit beyond the Book of Enoch, but it also ties
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: into the series because the idea of the names of
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: God and how many names there are. Is it a monad,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: is it a diad? And so this seems to be
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: very recurrent as well, and as well as the little
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: intricacies of disagreement even within sometimes the same tradition. So
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: we would say in Tontra that yes, there's a monad,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: but that's not important. But then there's also a diad,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: which is a little more important because that is sort
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: of the reflection of the ultimate primordial natures, which is
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: emptiness and compassion, So both of those things in union.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: So it is technically a monad, but it's they're still distinct,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: but they're also empty, so they don't really have a
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: contour of a nature. There are luminous it's completely like
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: it's beyond our it's ineffable and beyond our sort of
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: comprehension of what that means. So yeah, I think that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: there's something really interesting with that, and then how the
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: more defined you give names to God or the more
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: specific the name, the lower the lower the sort of
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: expression it is in the world, the lower quality, you
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: could even.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: Say, right right, well, and that's why the within the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Hebrew philosophy, you know, you were not even necessarily allowed
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: to say the name of the Godhead because it did
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: it lowered it in essence into a lower form, you know, yeah,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: very much, so, very much.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: So.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Now, then Enoch he goes on to go into the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: middle of the earth, which is where these gregory are
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: these gagantos are trapped. And basically this is the same
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: place that when Christ is, you know, Jesus is crucified,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: that he essentially goes into the middle of the earth
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: to profess the good news to these trapped souls. That so,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: you know, initially Enoch talks about, you know that these
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: these entities are going to be locked away for ten
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: thousand years. The Bible itself talks about Tataria, where essentially
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: these entities will be deposited in this sunken or hidden
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: space and they'll be like zipped up and at the
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: end of time it will be as though they never existed.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: To bastardize the system, you know, so I just find
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: it interesting. And you know, again back to the Book
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: of Enoch inflecting and really leading and giving a lot
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: to the stories in the New Testament, you know, I
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: think it's it's one of the bigger stories that kind
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: of contribute as as a force multiplier to make the
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: story move that has been occulted.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, you're so right on this. And this even
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: really intertuckts with something that I'm thinking about lately, is that,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: you know, there is something really deeply rosicruction or even
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: just esoteric about certain kinds of Christianity, and I think
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: that what would serve it really well is to actually
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: emphasize those elements rather than occult them, because then actually
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: I think people could have like a better grasp of
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: the way the world is, as well as sort of
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: tools to deal with what we could call supernatural but
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: not necessarily supernatural, but they would have like more of
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: a skill set in which to engage these things, even
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: just the ways of thinking about these things right, right,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: because knowledge is not always something you do, it's just
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: something that you hold on to for a little while.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I think that that would really
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: be the way. I'm not saying that you want to,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: or even I want to. We're supposed to take lossism
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: or anything, but I'm just saying that that would be
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: probably useful for a lot of people, I think, because
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: I see a lot of people sort of flailing, not
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: of the totally their own fault, but if flailing to
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: sort of grasp all the sort of astrological, cosmological and
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: mythological movements of the last like ten years, we'll say, right,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: and in just in the sort of Protestant version, so
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: he even has less books than the King James version.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: I just feel like without Enoch, I agree with you
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: that it doesn't fully it's not it doesn't fully make sense.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: There's like em It's like Book of Jubilees. Now, do
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: you have to believe everything that is in Book of Jubilees. No,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: but it lays a lot of the groundwork for why
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: Genesis is the way it is written. So I think
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: it's just useful to understand these things instead of label
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: them good or evil, or even say that you believe them.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: You don't have to believe them.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: In the Book of Jubilee again, is focused around the
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: number seven, and you know, the seven year cycle that
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: leads the seven time seven, giving you the forty nine,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: which is the cycle where essentially the financial system is
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: reset and all the slaves are freed and everyone everyone's
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: books go to zero, because they understood that when you
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: take a financial system and through the course of time,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: the inflation and all the miscellaneous debt and everything that's
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: created basically in slaves of society, which is why the
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: Book of Jubileese, you know. And it's interesting that they
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: would take something like that out of the Bible and insert,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: you know, give unto Caesar, what is his in regard
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: to taxes?
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: You know. Well, as you know, Robbie, I am much
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: more libertarian leaning out how you are, and so I
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: agree with you. I think that there is a very
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: good even But even from Cabala, like I know a
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: lot from reading about Larias, was a scathing critic of
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: the bureaucracy. He said that to give any you know, place,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: any power in the hands of the bureaucracy was to
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: immediately cause the fall of the paths of the trade. Ye,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: so that's very like foreign Cabalis. That's a very extreme language.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: It's basically saying it's Satanic.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so I'm reading about John Hammond Hill who
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: has castle down here in Gloucester, but he was friends
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: with Cecil Rhodes and he was also hanging out with
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Colonel House Mendel House, who was basically Mendel House was
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: the guy behind propagating the idea of using the bureaucracy
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: to supersede the federal government.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, these terms are very very rare, and that's
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: I think what people really don't understand is that through
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: the course of understanding these ancient philosophies, it leads to
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: being able to have a deeper understand of a deeper
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: understanding of modern turnings.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, absolutely, I one hundred percent
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: agree with you. I think that there needs to be
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: a reappraisal. I think that's sort of where we are.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: That's sort of my thesis of the Daughter. We're sort
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: of like in this place where everything is like historical
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: but also brand new future cultural memory is brand new
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: in the fact.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: Right, So now get this. Going through all the miscellaneous
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: angel names in the Book of Enoch, right, one of
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: the ones that I found very interesting was they mentioned
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: the angel Tyrrell, right, who is one of the angels
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: who showed the terror on the Earth. Right, and if
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: you take that Tyrrell and come into the modern vernacular,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: that is the corporation that basically rules over and makes
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: all the genetic like simulacra humans in the series Blade
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Runner by Philip K.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: Dick.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: So you know, we can see these these thing and
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: if we understand that Tyrrell is the angel who showed
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: terror on Earth, and then how Philip K. Dick turned
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: that angel into the corporation that rules over like the
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: GMO humans, you know, and and you know what is
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: it in the Bible it says, you know, the flesh
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: shall cry out for death, but none shall be found.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: You know, you got to wonder about what's going to
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: happen with all these genetic turnings within the modern idea
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: of you know science. It's just h yeah, interesting stuff.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Well absolutely, I mean there's no way that you cannot
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: look at the Book of Enoch and say that it
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: does not have a contemporary scientific expression. I think that
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of people have made that case, but I
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: think that you don't have to take it. It doesn't
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: have to be so okay, like there's like an angel somewhere,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: so you know, mixing up human genetics. But it can
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: be ideas that people carry forward into history and they say, oh,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: I'm doing the job of this or this is my
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: sort of like yeah cosmology, this is my you know
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: they god, yeah, they.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: Become sort of Grigory's or these haunted entities that we
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: kind of create within the minds of humans that facilitate
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: certain turnings.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: You know, absolutely absolutely, And I know yeah, no, you're
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: really So this is something that I often think about
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: as like transgression and so what so when you put
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: transgression as the popular culture, it loses a lot of
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: its value. Oh yeah, because then it's no longer really transgressive.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: So I just that's sort of what I'm thinking about,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: is like, well, we've seen most things in the last
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: ten years. We've seen most things become that we're almost unfathomable.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe twenty five years ago, we've seen them become very mainstream.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: So what is this? You know, what do we make
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: of what transgression is now? And I would say that
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: transgression is actually very unpowerful right at the moment because
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: of its saturation in the culture. And so yeah, this
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: has a lot to do with wheel turning, because you
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: can't the rights we have are left and right handed,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: they're not you know, we do have non dual systems,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: but it's it's it's difficult, it's it's hard to access,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's a hard state of mind to live in. Right. So,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: but that's kind of the key, that's kind of the
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: true key is the non dual, non right, non left.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like somewhere in the middle of the middle, filler.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's what has So that's what I
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: think will be a trick or it'll be difficult for
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: some people to sort of cross that barrier or about
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: threshold of being like, okay, it's not about these wild extremes.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: It really isn't because we've all been sort of acculturated
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: to swing one way or swing the other way, like
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: with rapid extremism, right.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, engineered for sure, for.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Sureered for sure. Well, dialectics is engineering.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: One of the things that I did want to bring
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: up was Methuselah had a dream after talking to Enoch,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: and in Methuselah's dream, Heaven is falling to earth and
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Earth is swallowed into an abyss. So when you talk
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: about regressive practices and putting the whole population into this
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: state of debasement. You know it's does that encourage heaven.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: To fall from earth?
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Very much like the Masons talk about the squaring of
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: the circle. So you take the circle which is the heavens,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: and you turn it into the square which is the earth.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: It gets into like Tracy Twineman was talking about meat
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: basically with chains on the sun and the moon and
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: pulling heavens down to earth. It gets into the Christian
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: you know, our Father where they say on earth as
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: it is in heaven. You see this symbolically carried over
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: time and time again. But is there again back to
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: the Lui and Kabbala and the idea of setting the
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: disposition for the Messiah to return by debasing society, by
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: plunging Earth into the abyss through debasement, Are they drawing
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: or pulling the heavens down in essence?
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: I would say that, I would say they believe it?
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Does it? Does it right? Also, shout out my co
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: host for the Twineman series, Zach Schumar. Without him and
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: would not have happened. So I have to always, you know,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: give them credit for that. And we are friends and
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: so uh yeah, so I think and I said this
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: in our twine Man episode, is that I said, you know,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: the devil card is showing a lot of what you're
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: describing with me Tracy was describing. And but the chains
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: are not around your hands, They're around your neck. So
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: the chains can be lifted off if you so choose,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: if you know your will, they can. They can be
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: lifted off. But if you but if you believe that
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: they are there, if you believe your hands are chained,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: then they are. Right.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we are shackling ourselves with our own mind born
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: you know inflections.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yes, absolutely, And I think that that's a lot
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: to do with like the the oaths of these like
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: peculiar brethren as we'll call them, to borrow the language.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: You know that there are people who really their whole
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: thing is like the domination control, and then there's clear
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: some other people who are more renegade maybe or are
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: more like freedom oriented. I know JJ Vance who is
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: will be a guest on this show very soon, and
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: he talks a lot about like how there are elements
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: of what he studies, which is a Society of Cincinnatus,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: which I know you know something about as well as
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: that yeah, yeah, there's like a liberty element, or at
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: least a Luciferian element, at least enough to where they're like,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: maybe mass Enslaven is a bad idea.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: Well, but Cincinnatis goes all the way back to the
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: golden Age of Saturn and what is it Sylvania and Cincinnatis,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: and it's it's a very very ancient story and it's
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: kind of hard to find a lot of information about
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: since you know, the original origin of Cincinnatus, you know.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: But now that so there's there's one more idea here
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: that I want to talk about in regard to the
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: Book of Enoch, and then I think we can kind
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: of tie it up. So now there's this Enoch has
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: a dream that he tells to Methuselah, right, and it
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: gets into and we've had discussions about, you know, bulls
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: and cows and different types of sacrifice and what these
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: symbolic elements of color mean.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: But there's a whole dream where.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Basically a white bull comes out of the earth and
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: you know, and has offspring, and these offspring are you
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: have the white bull, you have the red bull, and
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: you have the black bull, and you know, there's essentially
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: this inter fighting and kind of interplay between these colors,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: which again here ties us back to the discussion we
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: just had with Nick in regard to alchemy, these colors,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: So why don't we just revisit that for a few
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: and and so there's just a little bit about the colors,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: and since you are an artist, it's interesting to hear
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: what particularly stands out to you in that discussion. And
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: then also if you have any agreements or disagreements with
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: the way it is articulated.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's in regard to alchemy. You know,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: you have the negrito, which is the prima materia, which
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: is basically what you create all of everything out of.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: But interestingly, this first bull that comes out of the
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: earth is a white bull, and then it's offspring are
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: these three colors. But through alchemy you basically burn off
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: the impurities, and that's when you get to the white stone,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: which is essentially where you're separating out the oils from
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: the salt, and the salt is the white ash that's
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: left over, and then you have this fine distilled oil
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: that you've essentially brought out of the black and then
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: you take that oil and you refine that oil into
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: a crystalline state which becomes red. So there I think
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: there is some interplay here with the ideas of alchemy
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: and the creation of life on earth.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: You know, there is absolutely alchemy is at the heart
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: of all esotericism. It's clearly it's deeply embedded in contra.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: It's very understudied even for Western scholars on contrac Buddhism,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: but there are some that have written a lot on it.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: The Utah Intake cycle is very famous medical cycle that
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: talks about the transmutation of mercury from nature from alchemical
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: sort of methodology using different burners and distilling it down.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: And then there's also a magical purification method. So there's
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: a natural and magical but they all can also work together,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: like you can do all of those three processes, which
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: are seven stages, each int singly enough.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: Exactly exactly well.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: And so now these bulls as they become manifest on earth.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: Enoch details that the fallen ones come down and mate
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: with these bulls, and the offspring are asses, elephants, and camels,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: and the asses and the elephants and the camels take
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: up swords and begin to fight with the bulls, and
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: one of the bulls actually turns into and becomes a man, right.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: And if you get into the early stories within the
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Bahd Vegita of the fallen ones coming down, they essentially
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: hid out in caves and some of the first forms
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: that they took were elephants, asses, and camels, So, you know,
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: I find that interesting. But that's when essentially Enoch talks
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: about there's a flood in this dream that basically is
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: to cleanse the earth, and the black and the white
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: and the red offspring, you know, are are essentially saved.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: And then that gives birth to the sheep.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: And the wolves.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: And the wolves, you know, they begin to devour the sheep,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: and the sheep refuse to cry out. That's another kind
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: of common thing we see in the texts, you know,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: these animals that become so afraid that they are silenced,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: you know, and shaking and trembling. And I think this
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: is it kind of leads to the idea of these
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: generations and kind of what they represent within the movement
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: of the TimeScapes of the AONs as things precipitate, right,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: and then a Ram becomes the leader of the sheep.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: But then it says that the eagles come and begin
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: to eat the eyes and the flesh and leave only
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: the bones of the sheep, which you know, and this
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: is this is you know, two hundred to two thousand
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: BC potentially that this was written. And a lot of
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: people think that this is a prophecy of the Romans
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: basically coming in and the conflict between the Hebrews and
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: the Romans and the tout and the temple itself, right,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: and then it talks about that the ravens and the
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: eagles are both eating the lambs, and then the ram
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: He basically you know, hits his staff upon the earth
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: and the ground opens up and swallows all the bad animals.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: So this is the dream that Enoch conveys to Methuselah,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: you know, basically prophesying very much like the Jacobs Ladder
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: story kind of how he sees all of time, you know,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: laid out before him, and he sees the generations and
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: the wars and all the things that will happen on
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: the Terrible Hill, which is where you know, Solomon's temple
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: was built, Jesus was crucified, Abraham was sacrificed. But yeah,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: I just find it interesting in regard to prophecy.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: You know, prophecies are such an interesting thing because they
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: can be taken locally, like you can understand, like like
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: the Book of Enoch, you can understand to have a
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: geographic specific region, but maybe other people who live in
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: like Iraq, like I know some of the Mandians, they
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: think it's about Babylon from the second century a d.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: So they, you know, everybody interprets it in their own
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: third way. And so who's the star of the story,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: I think is a very dependent on who's reading the
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: text text.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure again yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's just
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: the whole Eenoch's vision, the idea that and shall ascend
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: that and and they detail the idea that the root
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: shall be scattered kind of like you know, you have
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: the rise of the Israelites and the the origin of
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: the Hebrews themselves, but then it says that you know
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: the root once once. This because within Eschatology, there have
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: been some people that have detailed this, uh, the Enochian
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: calendar basically to be Enoch to Noah to Abraham to Moses,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: to Solomon to Jesus and then there'll be an apostate
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: time where you know, evil will rise upon the earth
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: and it kind of has to do with this idea
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: that the root of of the Hebrews being scattered in
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: an apostate group rising, which I see analogous to Zion
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: basically Zions.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean, this is the thing, Robbie,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: is that I don't disagree with you in its foundations
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: of that idea is it's just where I'm like, that
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: phrase is so used and it sometimes I think it's fair,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: and sometimes I think it's not fair enough. You say
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: it unfairly. I know what you're referring to. I just
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: think that in the general parlance it gets and I
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: think that's intentional, is sort of obfuscated of what that
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: even really means. But I don't disagree with you that
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: there are there are there are just clearly these people,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: like there are clearly people in the world, regardless of
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: religion or ethnicity, that do believe that they are fulfilling
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: ancient ideas or embodying ancient ideas and ancient prophecies. Now,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: is it all a larp? Is all real? I don't know,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: but I definitely think they believe it. So it's useful
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: for us to look at the things that they believe in,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: or at least discuss what we can be.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: And I'm definitely saying these are things that people have
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: worked out of the Enochian calendar, not necessarily things that
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: I believe. So you know, it's it, but just you know,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: within the Book of Enoch, it's very vast. It details
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of information that in no way could we
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: even begin to fully justify the the extent that is
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: within the book. And and then you get into the
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: calendar and how he lays out all the days and
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: the seasons and the houses and the movements and the
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: you know, the astral bodies. But there's so many precursors,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: like when the noa Hide laws as far as the
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: precursor to the Noahide laws, Enoch he sees them eating
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: blood when they have good things to eat, but they
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: prefer to eat the flesh and drink the blood, you know,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: going back to cannibalism. You know, there's fragments of the
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: Book of Noah which basically details Noah's birth, his red
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: hair and glowing eyes. His father Lamech was afraid because
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: he saw him as more like a god man than
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: a human, you know, So he calls up Enoch and
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: Enoch explains everything to him. But yeah, Now, the other
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: thing with the Enochian calendar, when we look at Ezra
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: to Jesus, it's four hundred and ninety years, and there's
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: this prophetic cycle that you see in various places that
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's root origin comes out of Enoch where
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: it's essentially this h Like in Rastafarian music, there's a
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: band called Culture and they have this record called two
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: Seven's Clash and it's about the beginning of time to
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: Zion to the end of time and basically that prophet
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: cycle that seven times seven given you forty nine basically
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: related to the four hundred and ninety year cycle which
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: we have between Ezra and Jesus. Like people that are
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: into eschatology, they've basically said that the Enochian calendar is
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: the only calendar that fits the seventy week prophecy of Daniel,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: which is talking about the arrival of the Messiah, you know,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: being the prophecy of Jesus essentially. So it's just interesting
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: how people have taken all this information and kind of
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: you know, and if we are to believe some apocalypse
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: has already happened at Megido, you know, and that fight
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: is already done and we're long past that. Whereas the eschatology,
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: the Lureans, the they believe that, you know, even within
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: Judaism and Christianity, they believe there's this returning Messiah that's
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: going to somehow save us and take us all to
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: a higher realm, you know. And whether you want to
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: see that as a physical machination that's outside the body body,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: or whether you want to take that as an internal
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: machination that is a that is a story that tells
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: us within ourselves, how to you know, bring ourselves to
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: higher planes of being can be debated. But it's just
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: interesting again back to prophecy and prophetic action and how
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: much that has inflected on the modern world itself.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: That was a great place to like or to close out.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: But I want to say too short things, Robbie, is
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: that while I'll start with this is the forty nine
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: or this idea that you said four hundred and ninety
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: and then also a forty nine day cycle or nine
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: year cycle. Excuse me. The forty nine is an extremely
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: important number in Cabala because it is four, which is
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: just said, and nine which is yasod. So it is
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: the rectification of the world through mercy again the idea
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: of water, but again doesn't necessarily mean a flood. A
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: flood can also mean through this idea of mercy, pure mercy,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent mercy, no negative quality.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: At all, just bascism by water.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly, a baptism by water. So that is
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: really important. And Christ is also associated with the number thirteen.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: And so you can also break down and say one
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: plus three, so what are the three? The three are
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: the three elements, so it's fire, earth, and water, those
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: are mixed together, and then it's the then you produce air,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: so right exactly, So yes, so this is a very
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: important concept. And then also the so the moon, well
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: we said it has a lunar element, so obviously this
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: goes along to my other series out of the Daughter.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: But I do think that there is like it's a
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: kind of a twin, is what I've positive. It's like
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: a cis G or sort of like complementary not an antithetical,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: but a complementary force to the sun. And and so
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: what does that mean? And so I think that you're
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: totally right is that we have to like balance out
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: what the meanings are and not take them to either
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: be super gross or to be super subtle, like it's
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: sort of neither nor you're you know, middle path again
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: and so much right, and you're balancing it out. So
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: I think that that's the probably the healthiest and best
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: place sort of to be. But then also the Matraya.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to touch on this because obviously you
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: study theosophy, you study all these ancient cosmologies, So the
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: Matreya often comes up among researchers because obviously, smiss, we're
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: very obsessed with this idea in Tantra, the Matreya is
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: really only the worldly body of the cosmic Buddha. He
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: may not even know he is the Matraya. It's like,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: that's subtle. It's not someone. It's not like a. It's
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: not a messianic figure. It's more the it's just the
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: idea of the messianic figure, which you're going to be
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: sort of working yourself towards by doing practices. It's it's
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: not waiting for someone to save you. It's saying, yeah,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: there might be these interplays of the cosmos and people
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: are being reborn and dying and reborn, but you have
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: to keep going and keep moving forward, rather than you know,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: stay stuck on the cosmic cycle or stay stuck on
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: eschatology like you just keep going because we live in
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: a cycle. So right, so that's what the matria. I
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: just wanted to for the record say that that is
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: what the matreya is rather than this messianic figure.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: Right, And I think that the oss s Blovotsky, we're
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: basically playing on this uh you know, four hundred and
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: ninety year cycle to try to bring forth a sort
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: of a messiah figure to be worshiped.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: It's uh yeah, I mean but but again, you know,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: over and over we see within Judaism, you know, they
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: have these rising messiahs that they later deny. It's always,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: you know, the idea of the false Messiah. No man
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: shall know the time when he shall come, you know.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: It's it's uh yeah, it's the whole Messianic or Masonic concept.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: That interplay within all these ideas is uh it's it's
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: very intriguing.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, and we will leave it at that
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: for part one book of Enoch. One Enoch, I'll probably
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: call it something club or I might just call it
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: one too. So thank you Robby for your time and
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: for coming on and just being awesome and so don't
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: you leave by just giving your link tree, socials whatever
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: you want to plug and I'll make sure to include
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: it in the show notes and as well send you
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: audio copy when we're.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: Not Yeah, if anybody is interested to see all the
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: miscellaneous things I like to dip my toes in. I
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: have my art, I have social media Twitter, I do
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of political commentary and posting my notes as
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: I'm doing research. But you can check all that stuff
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: out on my link tree which is link tree r
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: M A r X R Marx at link tree, and
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: that'll pull up everything for.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: You awesome, and that will of course be included in
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: the show notes, so everybody can go check Robbie out.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: And then so this will be part one and next
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: time Robbie will do part two and so yeah, thank
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: you so much and have a great day.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, thanks for having me on. It's great talk