Latest / Skin Anarchy / Debunking Fragrance Myths W/ The Queen Of Scent, Veronique Gabai- E.425

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Debunking Fragrance Myths W/ The Queen Of Scent, Veronique Gabai- E.425 · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, welcome back.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So wonderful talking to you every time.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Excel.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So happy to be here too.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's always a pleasure.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love our conversations.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, likewise.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so, so thrilled to be, you know, connecting on this topic for today.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: For everyone listening, we're going to be discussing the myths around fragrance today and really trying to debunk a lot of that misinformation out there, you know, what wherever you hear it from.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully Roni can give us a little bit of a guiding light when it comes to some of these things.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So Veronique, I'd love to get started by, you know, really talking to you about what is your most, you know, just disliked myth that you hear, that you've heard.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start there.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's so many of them.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think also it comes from the fact that, you know, um the sense of smell is so mysterious because you can't really explain it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it is located in your reptilian brain.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the brain that controls your instinct.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: So everything instinctive is kind of difficult to explain, right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: You you you have a very butt reaction when it's instinctive.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that there's a lot of mystery around scent because of that.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's also very emotional.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's you know, the emotion you have with scents, you can't explain.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, why am I so moved by this fragrance?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Why I loved it so much, why I hate it so much, why is it transporting me immediately to a place that uh in my memories?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of mystery around scent.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but um, but there's one uh I have to tell you, one thing that drives me crazy is when people say that you need to smell coffee, uh, you know, to clean your nose.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and I get I was like, okay, no, you don't need to smell coffee.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so how how do we cleanse our old factory palette?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that even a thing?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's very easy, you know.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we are an amazing um, you know, machine.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've been created in in an amazing way.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what you do to uh clean your nose is just using your breathing and you know, basically breathe in and out from your nose and blow air from your nose, you know, a little bit more than you would normally do when you breathe, uh, you know, uh instinctively.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Just blow some air, you know.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: You blow air from your nose, and with the air that goes out of your nose, um, the molecules that were stocked in your nose are gonna go away.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it, your nose is clean.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, smelling coffee is just um masking what you had, but it's not cleaning your nose.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's another fragrance, right?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're just smelling another fragrance.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's oh my gosh.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm part of that one.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard of that, and people have these like like I've seen the people that have like the coffee grounds, you know, in this like jar, and they're like, oh, you know, you have to smell this to really understand the other one.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, what are you doing?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but but yes, it masks everything.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if you had a room, you know, that is painted in pink or purple.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: The only way to uh get rid of the pink of the purple is to put on top of it a coat of black.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: But it's the same thing with coffee, it doesn't make the pink disappear, you're not turning to white.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um basically with coffee, it's the same.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's gonna mask everything else that you had smelled before, but it's not allowing you to smell better because you you keep putting more and more molecules into your nose.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to clean your nose and have a fresh nose to smell more and more and more, just blow some air and uh and from your nose, obviously, and and your nose will be clean.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the one thing that I would say is that as you do that, you are gonna be able to smell more and more and more.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I would highly recommend if you have a session, like you know, when when you work in perfumery, you smell all day long.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when you start smelling a lot, you know, it's always good to drink a lot of water, eat a little something so you can smell over and over and over again.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really good tip too for everybody who's holiday shopping and and is going fragrance shopping, because you know that when you try that perfume and that just gets too overwhelming.
• 5:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you have you smell it the whole time you're shopping.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like But that's that's a different thing, is because the air is saturated with scent and it's not necessarily a very pleasant experience, but you know, it is what it is, I guess.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're right, you're right.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's crazy around the holiday time, especially when we're out there and trying to find out what it is that anything smells like.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, um it's quite a quite a challenge.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's that's really cool, though.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that um you debunked that.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that no one out there is is still doing the coffee ground thing.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a lot of people are doing the coffee, it's okay.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: But just for those of people who are listening to us, no, you don't have to smell coffee unless you love it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you love it, then go for it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, another one, another myth that I've um heard about is storing your perfumes in a fridge.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Does that even what does that even do?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Does it do anything?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yes, so yes and no.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: You traditionally you do not have to store your perfume in a fridge between the meat department and oranges if you want to keep your your perfume.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um your perfume can have a very long life, as long as it is not in a direct source of light or heat.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So don't put your perfume close to your heater, okay?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Don't put your perfume underneath the windows where the sun is heating, you know, beautifully.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: That your perfume will not like.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: But if you put it in a dark um and relatively cool area, you're going to be fine.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, in your bathroom, as much as I love the idea of a vanity, um, you know, your perfumes will be better off in the cabinet or in a drawer because that will keep them better.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and if you put it in the vanity because it's pretty and it's lovely and it's more accessible, make sure that it's not under direct light.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I would say.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, you can keep your fragrance forever.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you want to keep something uh because you know you're not going to use it right away, yes, you can put it in the fridge, but it's not really necessary.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I, you know, because at the end of the day, it's all chemistry.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I like keep thinking is like, yeah, I mean, if you think of like molecules and the way like they react to light, they react to heat, you know, so it makes sense.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that people just go overboard.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this this trend, I think, started also with skincare when everyone was putting skincare in the fridge.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like yeah, I think if you have skincare that doesn't have um, you know, active preservatives, then yes, you need to put it in the fridge to conserve the skincare.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: But usually the skincare today are, you know, preserved.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't necessarily need to do that.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now, another one that's actually goes, I think, hand in hand with this one is that, you know, um, in terms of like longevity, you know, of a perfume, like in a bottle.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So what are like people always say, you know, all because that's really the myth, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that your perfume is not going to last as long if you don't do this, if you don't do this.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would actually love for you to give us just an answer of is there a thing that we need to worry about as consumers when it comes to the longevity of a perfume, like as it sits in a bottle.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now, really, heat and light are the two only things that you have to worry about.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but otherwise, a perfume can last a very, very long time.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, to be honest with you, um, you know, if you have a perfume that is composed with a lot of naturals, like my fragrances are, uh obviously uh, you know, natural ingredients evolve.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: So what can happen is that the product might change color over time.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't mean that the scent is not good.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that the uh, you know, the leaving things which are the naturals are evolving with time.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's normal.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it doesn't change necessarily what the perfume will smell like.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, makes sense.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's good to know because I was a little worried when I first heard about, you know, oh my god, your perfumes might not last as long.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I was, you know, very uh, I was like treating them like babies, you know, like should I, where do I put them?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Also, uh, there's different things, you know, there's also the long-lastingness on skin.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: It, you know, you have the lastingness in a bottle.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is it gonna last a year, two years, three years, forever?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, if you store them properly, they're gonna last a very long time.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Quite honestly, the bottles that are sold today on the market, you don't have liters worth, you know, so the small bottles, you should be able to use that product in a short period of time.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: But then you have the lastingness on skin as you wear the perfume.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: So um that long-lastingness will depend on the composition of the perfume.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if you have a very fresh type of fragrance that is composed with a lot of citruses, for example, or light green notes or light floral notes, probably it will last a little less long than a fragrance that is composed mostly with woods and embers.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because the molecules that are creating the scent are having a different volatility.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, woods and embers, uh, you know, they take hours to develop.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then once they develop after hours, they stay a long time on skin.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Fresh notes like citruses or light floral notes, they will, you know, arrive to your nose much quicker than woods and amber.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: But then obviously their life cycle is also uh finishing earlier than woods and amber.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So on skin, if you love, for example, very citrusy scent, probably it might last a teeny less long than super woody embery scent.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: It can last a long time, but probably a little less than the others.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's why when we compose fragrances, we try to make sure that there's a balancing act between, you know, the top notes, the fresh notes, and the dry dent notes, the notes that stay very long on skin.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: That makes so much sense.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And because I was actually, that was a myth that I've I've seen is that people say the stronger a scent is, the more it's gonna last.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I really wanted to ask you is that this strength, this idea of the strength of a scent or strength of a fragrance, like where does that come from?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because that, you know, like is what is that all about?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Strength and long-lastingness are different.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: So strength can can be also coming from the concentration of your perfume.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so a perfume like an eau de parfum, for example, is a solution, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you you put um what we called a fragrance oil, which is basically what smells, okay?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's the composition of ingredients that smells.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna mix this in a solution that is done with uh alcohol and water.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: That uh mixture is called a solution.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: The content of the fragrance oil has different types of concentration.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So in a perfume, probably the fragrance oil is around 30% of the solution and more, it could be more.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And eau de parfum is between, let's say, 15% and 25% concentration, and eau de toilette is around, let's say, six to ten percent, and eau de cologne is below six percent concentration.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: That will explain the strength, okay?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: The more concentrated, the stronger.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: It not necessarily explains the long-lastingness because you could have a very fresh perfume done with only with citruses, okay, uh highly concentrated, but it's citruses.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the citruses will be volatile, and then after a while they don't smell anything anymore.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: So long-lastingness and strength are very different notions.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what about when we're spraying something?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know how people say, Veronique, that um the best way that you can tell what a fragrance is going to smell like is you know, there's two two theories of thought.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some people say it's either on your skin, or the other people say it's on the blotter itself.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the real truth about that?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: How can you really tell?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so different things here because there's different um uh point of answers uh to the question, Ekta.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um blotter is paper, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a material that's wonderful because it translates the fragrance on paper.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the blotter um basically will have a rendition of your scent that might or might not be exactly the way it's gonna smell on your skin.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I recommend to people to really, really do a first curation, you know, of fragrances on blotter.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say you're out in a in a department store or perfumery shop and you want to try like 10 perfumes.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, try the 10 perfumes on blodders first.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Feel like what is the ones that you really like, like maybe three or four.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: The three or four that you love you have to try on skin.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, because what you smell on blotter might not be exactly what you smell on skin.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because the natural ingredients in the fragrance you smell are gonna live and breathe very specifically on everyone else's skin.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so how it's gonna smell on you, Ecta might be very different from how it's gonna smell on me.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and that's usually linked the natural ingredient in a fragrance.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Synthetics are more uh consistent from a person to another, but natural ingredients change dramatically from a person to another, and so it is very important to smell on skin to see what a fragrance will feel like and smell like for you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: It might smell away on blodders, and everybody will smell the same way when they smell the blotter, but on skin it will be different.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes a lot of sense.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for me, my preference as a consumer has always been exactly what you said.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, if I can smell it a little bit, I will just spritz a little bit on myself and then go take a walk around the mall or the department store.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's very important.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's also why, you know, on my uh on my website, uh, we have the personality test.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So people can do a little bit of a curation of the collection based on their personality.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: So out of the 15 fragrances I have on my site, we're gonna recommend three or four for you that correspond to your personality.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And like that, you can try only those three or four.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can try it at home on your skin, it's much easier.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and that allows you to really experience what the scent will be for you.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I love, I think that's a much better determinating factor, too.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is your personality, you know, and then that how appealing is it going to be for you as a scent?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, my my next one, my next myth, and I think this is a big one, and it's come up, I think, in the last decade, but I've seen is people finally talking about the idea of rubbing in a scent.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know there are some people out there, they're, you know, I was actually um visiting, you know, a family member of my my fiance in the south of the country, and they she was using, she was an older lady and she was using the perfume and and kind of spritzing it on her chest and then rubbing it in.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking to myself, I was like, I thought, what is the what what is the truth around that, Ronique, about rubbing a scent?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, should we be doing that?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you spray it on your wrist and then rub the other wrist on it.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do we do that or do we just not do that?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so um I would say don't rub.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can gently tap, okay, if you want to put uh the scent on both wrists, don't rub.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because by the effect, the mechanical effect of rubbing, you basically disturbing the molecules.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, let's say we're talking fine-tuning here, okay.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not going to change dramatically the situation, but it's better to just let it air or just gently tap.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: That will be truer to uh the uh you know the rendition of the of the perfume.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the other part that the lady is doing is that she's putting it on her chest.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh again, don't rub, but the chest is a fabulous area to have a beautiful rendition of scent because the chest close to the heart is one of the warmest uh parts of your body, and so it will heat uh the fragrance, and really the rendition will be delicious.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I didn't know that about the heat.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So a little bit of like the body heat matters then.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's that is that why they say put it on the power.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was just asking you, literally, you took the words out of my mouth.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's why they say put it on pulse points.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you when you put it on pulse point, so the pulse point, obviously, the wrist, the chest, the behind the ears, there's a couple of others.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the pulse point basically is is where you have warmth, you know.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it it works with scent because warming a scent, it's like it's gonna make it render beautifully.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: What what happens there is that it's something you will smell more, okay?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Or if someone come close to you will smell more.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't give you more diffusion, but it gives you, the wearer, a better sense of your fragrance.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: If you want diffusion, you have to spray all around yourself.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I that's actually like like a I think it was a Marilyn Monroe thing, too, right?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it who said that?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: There was somebody who said it like a celebrity.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, Marilyn Monroe was asked once, and I think that's also a myth, but it's a beautiful myth.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it's like what fragrance wear, what do you wear when you go to bed?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And probably the interviewer was uh, you know, asking about the nightgown or something like that, and she said, Oh, a few drops of Chanel number five.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I think that you know, it it's it's definitely good for us to know that you know it's it it's more about what you want to experience, and that really should play a role in how you apply your perfume, you know.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so if you want to experience diffusion, you have to spray around you.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to leave a sillage, you have to spray around you.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: I also say spray behind your ear, your your hair, because like that, when you move out of a room, the scent follows you.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want something really for you, the pulse point is the best because it's close to your skin, it's close to your uh nose, and and you're gonna feel it um, you know, for yourself.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's that makes so much sense.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, my next one, and this is one that really bothers me, Veronique.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really don't get it, is and I think you answered it earlier, but I want you to really go into a deep dive is that perfume is for women and that cologne is made for men.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's not true, so I want you to tell us why it's not true.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that uh what happened is that men used to wear colognes, women used to wear more concentrated perfumes, so suddenly it has become a habit.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't mean that you Colognes of a man and perfumes of a woman that makes no sense whatsoever.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that whatever you want to wear, you're you're you're allowed to wear.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you like a scent, the scent is for you.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you like a certain concentration, that concentration is for you.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you like the light concentration of a cologne, it's for you.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you want a more intense rendition of a perfume in a higher level of concentration, it's for you.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you like woods, it's for you.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you like roses, it's for you.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you like, it's for you.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to learn for yourself what you like.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's all.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the best answer, I think, for that is, and you know, cologne, I didn't know was a less concentrated version.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could have the, you know, the lesser concentration, and then it will be labeled a cologne.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was something I didn't know before you and I started speaking.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so now that I know that, it makes me completely re-evaluate when I see something labeled as a cologne.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a it's a totally different experience.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: So so technically, an eau de cologne is the lower concentration.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Then basically, by and large, we tend to call eau de cologne um things that are fresher.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: So things that are done with a lot of citruses or neroli or whatever.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's also uh eau de cologne, you know, was also not only a lower concentration, but it was also a tradition.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Cologne is a town in Germany, and it was the first place that really created that distillation of citruses and light flowers.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so that distillation of citruses was then used in that solution of alcohol and water, and it was the first time that technique was used, and it became eau de cologne, because the first time that technique was used was in the town of Cologne, Germany.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: So eau de cologne was not only a concentration, but it was also a type of fragrance.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So the type of fragrance which contains a lot of citruses, and that's why, by and large, today, when we say eau de cologne, we have in our mind that's very fresh type of scent.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: But technically, when you work in perfumery, an eau de cologne is really about the concentration that you use in the solution.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: The other significance of eau de cologne is the type of scent that was for the first time done in Cologne, which is citrusy uh type of scent.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that makes sense, you know, it really makes sense.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just always wondered, you know, why was this distinction there for you know, just like male dominate dominated perfumery?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes sense now.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's more like um in the US, because that's really a US situation.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody else in the world used the word cologne for fragrances worn by men.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, nobody else.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really a US thing, and probably the eau de cologne was more used by men than by women.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And by extension, instead of using the words eau de cologne, they started to use cologne, and cologne has become a word used usually to describe what men are wearing when it comes to scent, but it has nothing to do really with the type of scent, you know.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: So well, miss misnaming and misnomers are also an American thing, I think.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you do that a lot.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's okay.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: You just need to know what it is.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but technically, I know the cologne is a lower concentration, and technically it's usually based after uh the first uh technique used, which is you know, how to distillate uh how to use basically citruses in in a fragrance.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I so I guess the naturally, you know, the next myth that I would love for you to debunk is this idea of like male sense and like you know, the idea of pheromones somehow being involved.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't understand it.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what the real the jury is out on this question.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody has an answer that is a really um rooted in science type of answer.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, a lot of people talk about pheromones as you know, something that is a secret sauce to attract the other sex.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm not so sure about that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that what attracts the other sex is the confidence that you exude um uh, you know, from your own uh self.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that a person that feels very confident about themselves has a lot of sexiness and sex appeal.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that if you feel confident, you're gonna project confidence, you're gonna project, if you feel seductive, you're gonna project seduction.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you feel um beautiful, you're gonna project beauty.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think that it's all stem out of how we feel about ourselves and the energy that we project.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: If the energy is strong and positive, you're gonna attract attraction.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what it is.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I don't I don't think it's linked to pheromone, I think it's linked to how we feel about ourselves.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: And quite frankly, some perfumes can make you feel much better about yourself if you love that perfume.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: If that perfume gives you self-confidence, if that perfume makes you feel sexier, you're gonna project confidence and sexiness, and and that's it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't believe that um pheromone is is one, you know, yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes sense.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: That that it makes complete sense what you're saying, because I never believed it either.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what do you mean it involves pheromones?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Pheromones are secreted in sweat, they're secreted in like, you know, situations where like mating is needed for animals, you know what I mean?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a whole different like realm of thinking, I feel like, you know, from the science view when I look at it.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when I hear about it with fragrance, I'm like, it doesn't make sense to me.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I did hear though, somewhere, and a long time ago I heard this, that there were, you know, back in the day when men used to like when they went hunting, it was a ritual to like um I I guess rub something of that animal on their on themselves because it made them smell like the animal or like something about fear.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm completely botching it, but there was that I don't know, you know, uh probably there was like a victory lap also to to do that, but I I have no idea what what uh what that was about.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I had heard something crazy like that, and that that was like the only thing I I I could even think of when I thought about this whole pheromone concept, but that's that's good to know that you know it's not no, we we don't need to worry about it.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, again, it's it's not nothing is proven about it, you know.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um my feeling is that if you believe in this, then then basically if you if you had uh you know uh the secret ingredients, then everybody would be sexy in a minute.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that that has happened.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't believe that this is what it is.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think we all have a very unique way to feel confident about ourselves because it's linked to our own psyche.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you feel confident about yourself, if you feel beautiful, if you feel seductive, you will project that to the outside world.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so you have to find for yourself what makes you feel confident, what makes you feel beautiful, what makes you feel seductive, and it might not be the same for everybody.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a very important point to really drive home as well, because you know, scent and fragrance is all about this new level of freedom that you feel in your self-care.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's this feeling, like you described, Ronique, it's whether that's confidence, whether that's comfort, whether that's you know, sensuality, whatever it is, it's evoking an emotion from you, you know, and so exactly.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: And for some people, they're gonna feel confident and sure of themselves and seductive by smelling, you know, by by feeling uh, you know, the the fresh feeling of a fresh shower and soap.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Some people will will want to have the amber and the the darker scent because that's more mysterious to them.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: It really is what matters to you.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever matters to you, you will project in a positive way and you will attract, you know, because your energy will be positive.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and and so at the end of the day, what's important is that you start to listen to yourself and know yourself a little better, and chases away the marketing plays and the um, you know, um the advertising that you're bombarded with.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and listen to yourself.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: What do you love?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: What makes you feel happy?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: What gives you a sense of confidence?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: What makes you feel seductive?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it might not be the advertising that you see.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Start listening to your own soul and then project that to the world because that's when you become extremely attractive.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: That is such a powerful message, too.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, now one more, you know, and another myth, you know, and it's along the same lines is uh, you know, I heard a long time ago somebody said this um musk is for is for the male masculine and flowers are for are feminine.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to clarify musk to us.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: What is musk?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it used in perfumery, and is it really only for men?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Musks originally is a secretion uh from a wild cat.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's the secretion of uh, you know, and you could find that secretion in the testicule of a wild cat.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's no longer the case.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: We do not any longer kill wild cats to get their musks, okay?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that has been stopped a long, long time ago before your grandparents were alive.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so so this is the origin of musks.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: What we have done through science is trying to reproduce the smell of musks, and we have today a lot of synthetic ingredients that reproduce the smell of musks and with different different variation around the scent.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's purely a synthetic smell and many different ones of them.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have never heard that musk was for men.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna tell you though what it might be linked with.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: So musks is an ingredient like any others, and you can use it in any type of perfume, any kind of um composition, and it is used as many times in male fragrances as it is in women's fragrances.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in America, again, probably the reason why there is this idea that masks is for men is because masks were often used in products, perfume products that were used in the barbershop.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so by association, it became a scent for men because usually women would not go into a barbershop to get a shave.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and men would not go to salons.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so basically, I probably would imagine that the connection has been made through that because a lot of products, scented products that we use in the barbershop, contain musks, uh, you know, odors.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but musks as an ingredient is used across the board, you know, for men and women.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love uh yeah, and I've I've seen it, you know, in feminine uh in what I would consider to be feminine sense.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's a you know.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like in my in my line, we have one fragrance that you couldn't be more feminine.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's called Le Poing, the G spot, which is all about the association of iris musks and and woods.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, see, that that's that's something I don't even I don't I don't think people understand that like that you know, these words that are used in in fragrance and perfumery, like there is a meaning, you know, behind them.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just a oh well somebody used it at a at a you know retail counter one day and then it just became no, it's there's real meaning behind the the nomenclature.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's very important to understand.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I know um right now, you know, I I said this earlier, but while people are holiday shopping, um, I have a few friends of my own, you know, they'll avoid certain things.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, I hate musk in my sense.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, why?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why do you hate that?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and they don't have an answer, they just have this belief, you know, that's it.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe sometimes it's because they don't know what it smells like, but they have an idea of it, or sometimes it could be true, they don't like it.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: If they don't like it, they don't like it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know that people really know what musk smells like because it's a very particular scent, it's a synthetic uh scent.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: I personally love certain masks, uh, I think they're very interesting, but for me, it is more a texture, you know, it gives you a feeling of texture more so than a scent.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: So when you use musk in a fragrance, it's almost like you're creating the feeling of skin.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, not the smell of skin, the feeling of skin, the touch of skin.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's what musk does in a fragrance.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or in in with other type of musk, the feeling that you would imagine a cloud has.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you see a cloud in the sky, that fluffy feel, I feel like musk gives that feeling to a scent.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not necessarily a very powerful scent per se, but it's more like it gives a texture to your scent, a sensation to your scent.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and by the way, um, there's a great number of uh the population, a great percentage of the worldwide population that does not smell musks.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: They don't recognize the scent of musk, they they can't smell it.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: They are uh there is an anosmia with musk.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: About 30% of the worldwide population doesn't smell musks.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know that.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's interesting though, because you know, it's like musk is such a it's such a big topic, right?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's like it's such an interesting way that people, you know, have, I guess, propagated it in the marketing and and whatnot of perfumes because it, you know, it's always there.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I when I see it, when I see the word, I it's always in some very, very luxurious, you know, looking perfume or or fragrance.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I always think like, you know, it must be uh it must be a very interesting ingredient, you know, in terms of like and there's many of them because they are purely synthetic today, the masks, there's many variations around the masks, you know.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: So there are masks that really give you that sensation, there are masks that give you the feeling of skin, there are masks that are a little bit more animalic.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's different molecules that we use for different usage, but for me it's it's really the sensation that the usage of masks does in a fragrance that I love.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I see I I have a I have a question for you also from the male uh side of things, because you crafted aqua de jo, and aqua de jo is iconic, you know, it's it's one of the most you know coveted male fragrances, I would say.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it's full of flowers.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's what I was gonna ask you.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was yeah, yeah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you, you know, the the this the other part of your question was musks for men and flowers for women.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: I always found that this dichotomy of what is deemed appropriate for women or what is deemed appropriate for men is is uh to me is like nonsense.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you like a scent, it's yours, period.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Point blank.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if you like it, it's yours.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you like a flower and you're a guy, why not use it?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you like woods, if you're a woman, why not use it?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's no no reason why you shouldn't wear something you love because it it is part of your personality.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it there's no rules when it comes to scent, there's only what you like and what you don't like.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the uh you know, to go back to Aqua Digio, the whole principle of the creation of Aqua Digio was really to try to um go back to what the fashion uh line was about.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the genius of Giorgio Armani, if you put yourself in the 90s, if you go back there, is that Giorgio Armani transformed what we thought was the masculine suiting.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, he completely destructured masculine suiting and made a masculine suit in a very fluid way.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: There was no more like you know, angle shoulders or very strict cuts, it was very fluid, almost uh feminine in the approach.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to bring into the world of scent for Giorgio Ramani the same idea of fluidity, femininity brought into a masculine scent without changing the fact that it would be masculine.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so the way that we did it is that we used for the first time ever in a masculine fragrance a high concentration of flowers and certain fruit that would give that fluidity, uh, that feeling of sensibility, you know, to a masculine structure.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: The structure is very masculine, it's a woody scent.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: But we use different types of woods, we added some flowers, we added a touch of fruit that gave that very aquatic fluid feel to a masculine structure.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, that's so cool to hear about that.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, and and the scent is just it's extraordinary.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think there's very few of us who actually have followed its evolution over the years, and it I you can smell it on anyone.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Aqua de joe, like you crafted that so masterfully, Rami.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can smell that I've created the the the idea, and we created the scent with beautiful perfumers, you know, with Alberto Morias and with Jacques Cavalier.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: And Alberto was a master of his is a master of his craft, so is Jacques.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so together we crafted this scent because I really wanted to go far into reinventing masculine um uh scent, and and we did it uh, you know, to try to stay true to what Giorgio Armani had created in fashion.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and so yes, we used a lot of floral sea around jasmine, okay?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we used a couple of fruits to give the juiciness uh to the scent, and so it it feels very special.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: It is a very special scent, and it is you know, uh, you know, a proper masculine scent, it is very woody, so men don't have a problem wearing it.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't feel like uh you suddenly transformed yourself into a woman, but uh women love it too, and it's a very special scent, and it was also a way to connect with nature, so it's a very natural scent as well.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, going back to your point that you had made about um, you know, sensuality, sexuality, I'm not I'm gonna be very honest here for all the women listening in, you know, Aqua de Joe is a really great example of a male scent that is extremely like sexually appealing to the other, you know, gender.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I find that to be so intriguing that you have all these, you know, the the ingredients that you just described because it's a very, very appealing scent.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I find it to be truly like a hallmark, you know, in male fragrance.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's thank you.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's been an extraordinarily successful fragrance.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's because, you know, when you wear it, it's it's divine pleasure wearing it.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's and it has a fabulous sillage.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: So people recognize it and they say, What are you wearing?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's easy to recognize Aquadigu, but it's never obtrusive, it's never overwhelming.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's part of the the things that I love to do in Scent.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love to create intense experiences that are never obtrusive or overwhelming, and because there's nothing worse than uh, you know, occupying the space and not letting other people breathe, you know.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: But but but no, but it's true.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's a tendency with Scent to go stronger and stronger and more concentrated and more powerful and more powerful.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's a point where more power becomes obtrusive, and there's a balance to be found between long-lastingness, beauty, and respect, you know, respect for the space in which we live.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it's very important to have always that breathing situation when I create my scents.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, all of my scents are pretty intense and they long, they they last long on skin.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: They are never overwhelming, never, because I don't believe that it's the right thing to do.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: I want people to breathe free and I want it to be a lovely experience for everyone around you.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, you were talking about the um super uh you know attractive quality of aqua dijo.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think that you know they it is attractive because it is intense, recognizable, but it is also very breezy.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and if you look at my fragrances, even you know, the most intense one, like sexy garrigue or oud elixir, they're very intense, but they are staying very luminous because I want that air to go through everything.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I've definitely experienced that, especially, you know, with your um main fragrance line.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've noticed that everything is very much made to be as it was when you first put it on for a long time.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the fragrance doesn't, it it doesn't, you know, have this, okay, it was this in the beginning and now it's become completely not recognizable anymore.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a very interesting, um, you know, very interesting to hear your perspective on that.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and I actually want to ask you about, because you you had uh discussed this with the Musk question, was this idea of natural versus synthetic?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is also a huge myth right now for a lot of people, especially now that we're seeing that rise in the fragrance industry, everyone's shopping for fragrances.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's let's really uh debunk that, Veronique, about natural versus synthetic, you know, that natural is better um or synthetic is better, whichever way people are are, you know, I think there's pros and cons to both.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to decide what is important for you.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um naturals to me are fascinating because A, when you have a fragrance that's full of natural, you usually connect with nature, you feel nature, you have nature around you, you feel nature, you connect to nature, and that to me is a very important piece of my work.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: I want people to be able to connect with nature, yeah.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: But when you use a lot of natural, you owe it up to the communities and the planet to basically source your natural in an ethical and sustainable way.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay so you don't deplete the resources of the planet and you take care of the people that are harvesting those beautiful raw materials for you.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I use a ton of natural, I mean a ton, not a ton, but I use a lot of natural in my in my fragrances because I love the feeling of connection to nature and because I love the chemistry that natural gives you on skin.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when you wear a fragrance of vernica biol that contains a lot of natural ingredients, you will have a unique signature on your skin because natural live and breathe on your skin.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: I love that connection, I love the luminosity, I love the chemistry that happens with natural ingredients.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I make sure that every one of my raw materials is sourced ethically and sustainably.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: That to me is very, very important.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the con with natural.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't are, if you're not very careful, you could really harm you know the resources of the planet.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be careful.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why, for example, I use very little sandalwood in my sense, because I love sandalwood, but sandalwood is in danger.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying not to use too much of sandalwood.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if I use sandalwood, I'll make sure that it's a sustainable source so we don't deplete the resources of the planet.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it becomes a little technical, but it is what you need to know when you are doing fragrance.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Now, synthetics.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: Synthetics, you know, have been created, you know, on the bench in labs for several reasons.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: One is because sometimes we could not extract from nature the scent.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we tried to reproduce it, you know, in the lab.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: Fine.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes because extracting from nature cost a fortune, and so we wanted a cheap version of what nature can give us.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Fine.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um to a degree, because if you use too many cheap synthetics, well, you're gonna feel it's cheap and it's synthetic.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, literally, you're that's yeah, you feel that certain perfumes you can tell immediately.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is not and then you know, synthetics have been created to also increase the performance of a fragrance, meaning to make it smell longer, to make it smell more powerful.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: The molecules sometimes used there are heavy molecules.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: I personally think that some of them are really, really, really too strong.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like it's overwhelming.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I tend to shy away from those molecules because I don't like them.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: And probably it's a choice, you know, it's a choice because I don't want the person where my fragrance to be overwhelmed by it.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, in some cases, my fragrances being more natural, less synthetic, will probably be less overwhelmingly powerful as some other synthetic fragrances.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: But that's a choice, you know, it's a choice of well-being as opposed to uh, you know, performance.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think everything has to be done in a balance.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have synthetics that are using petrochemicals, and that's really something that we all need to shy away from because uh, you know, it's not good for the planet.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: But most synthetic today are not from petrochemical, thank God.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: But in the past it it was the case.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I think that's uh that's really helpful because I think a lot of people are confused even now about synthetics and their role in fragrance overall.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I I always wonder, you know, what does make a fragrance smell expensive?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's my next, and actually one of my, I think my final myth that I've got in my plate is this idea that people think the more expensive fragrances, the more um quality it's going to give you, um, the more quality it is.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to talk about this, you know, from your perspective, about this idea of, you know, there are certain fragrances that are thousands of dollars, you know, and I know a lot of people um collect fragrances.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people are, you know, enthusiasts in that realm of they want the most expensive bottle because they think that this is really indicative of the quality of the fragrance or the scent.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: But what is your opinion about that?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh listen, uh, you know, um there's a lot of marketing that comes to play as well.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, a product could be super expensive is if the bottle is super expensive.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it depends, you know.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but by and large, uh, you know, a composition in fragrance itself, if it's if you use a lot of precious materials like uh, you know, rose de mail or um certain woods or certain spices, yes, it will be more expensive to create than if you use readily available type of ingredients, or if you use a ton of synthetics.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so um the the the the cost of a fragrance is linked to what you put in there, okay?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, some natural ingredients, in my opinion, are the most beautiful ingredients you're gonna find.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you could find also natural ingredients that are not really smelling good because it's by products or you know, if they've been, it's like uh, you know, olive oil.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have extra virgin olive oil, it's the first press, and then you have other olive oils, second press and the third press and the fourth press.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: It is not as rich as the first press.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you, you know, in jasmine, for example, you have many different jasmines.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, some jasmine smells better than others, you know, quite frankly.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and and so then you try to put quality into what you do.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I'm very careful about the natural ingredients I put into my perfumes.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: I smell them, I I I choose them, and and usually I pick very high quality natural ingredients that in turn will give you richness in the fragrance, and in turn will give you that amazing rendition on skin.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that costs more money, okay?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, but it again it is a choice.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's like you pay you pay what you get for you pay for what you get, you know.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you want quality, then that's something that you have to really decipher.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um hopefully this is.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: But it does that quality is not necessarily strength and power because you have synthetic molecules that are very powerful but cost not a lot.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what you know.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: I find that that's a really, really I I love that statement because I think that, you know, I I really I wrote an article recently, you know, and this was not about fragrance at all, but it was about this idea of what new luxury means, you know, in the skincare space.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then an idea came up that is so relevant to what you just said, Veronique, and that was um the idea that luxury and you know, all of this, it's all relative.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's all about, you know, if if you feel like something is quality, if you see feel like there's something subtle yet mesmerizing about a fragrance, to me, that's more meaningful than a price tag.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't put a price tag on that.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: But that all said, uh, again, when you use very qualitative natural ingredients, they usually cost way more than um synthetics or lower quality naturals.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's no question about this.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, when I created my line of perfume, I said to the perfumers that I was working with, you don't have a budget.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: You do what's right for the scent.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: And my the cost of my fragrances is very high in by all means and and by all standard of the perfumery, but you feel the quality.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: You feel the quality because you feel the connection to nature, you feel that it is pure, you feel that it's not um, you know, cheapened by by side products.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it you feel it.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, that's absolutely essential.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean it's and I think that's exactly what I meant with you can't put a price on quality, you can't put a price on truly experienced, you know, vision from the creator who's making the product, right?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's something that I think we all need to start really thinking about when we buy products, and especially with fragrance um lines, it's like, you know, a lot of people, I know in America they gravitate towards like celebrity, you know, uh named lines or whatever.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I always wonder to myself, it's like, do you really like the fragrance or you like the celebrity, or what is it that you're looking for?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the more and more we examine what fragrance means to us in our daily lives and what scent really means to us, we'll stop, you know.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll stop you need a little bit of scent education.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not like uh you you can't get it.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: You you have to smell a lot to uh basically train your nose to make the difference between what you feel is good and what you feel is not so good.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you smell only one thing, you cannot have a perspective on things.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: So the more you smell, the more you're gonna be more discerning as regard to what is deemed um, you know, more qualitative than others.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: So and in in in in the US, uh that element of you know education is happening as we speak, because now the American uh people use more fragrance than they used to do, but uh for the longest time there was very little usage of perfume.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: So so there was very little education on perfume.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope this is also adding to the the amount of um educational materials out there because I think that people are learning a lot in this masterclass with you, Bernie.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think I mean every time we record an episode, I mean, everyone listening, you know that you discover something new because I know I do.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I just I love it.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're absolutely right.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, education and knowledge are is power, you know, and and you have to know what you're buying.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the nor the consumer now is very different than the consumer in the 60s and the 50s and the 70s or even the 90s, you know, we are very much addicted to understanding, I think, nowadays.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is such a great time to dive into why you love the fragrances you love and what goes behind them, you know.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: So with fragrance, what I would say is that the knowledge that you're gonna get from fragrance is not a rational knowledge.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: The knowledge of fragrance is done by trying fragrance, by experiencing fragrance, because fragrance act on your reptilian brain and your emotional brain, not on your rational brain.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: So there's no necessarily, you don't have to be an expert in fragrance to appreciate fragrance.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to give yourself a chance to smell, to discover, and to discern what you love and what you don't, and what makes you uh, you know, what triggers good emotion and what doesn't.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: And as you smell more and more, you will discern more and more.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: But with fragrance, there's the knowledge, the technical knowledge that a perfumer or a nose like me have, but there's also the simple act of trying.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: And by trying, you will educate yourself.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, 100%.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, you guys heard it from the master herself.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I really hope you guys are really, you know, you're tuning in and really learning and exploring.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and like Veronique said, you know, really applying this to your daily habits of you know, deciding what you you prefer in the realm of sense overall.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um, Veronique, it has been such a pleasure as always to chat with you.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: This was such a wonderful episode, and I hope that, you know, um we do many, many more.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm thank you, Victa.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love it, and I hope so too.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's it.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're done.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let me record.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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• 59:38
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