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45. Finding Joy in Everyday Life with Betsey Dirkse · A Heart That Beats for Home

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey friends, I'm Nikki Smith, your host here at A Heart that Beats for Home, the podcast where we're ditching filters and diving headfirst into the raw beauty of all things home.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Now, I am no expert when it comes to this whole parenting and marriage dance.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I'm simply a gal who's been riding the mom roller coaster for 22 years and a wife still untangling the mystery of it all 25 years after saying I do.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: My goal is to bring you unapologetically messy and boldly genuine conversations about cultivating strong families.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: We're gonna laugh, possibly cry, and straight talk about the joy and chaos that comes within the four walls that we call home.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: No judgment and certainly no perfection, just real talk from my heart, a heart that beats for home.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Let's dive in.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Hello friends, welcome back to another week here on the podcast at A Heart that Beats for Home.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: We are in November and we are talking about all things gratitude, joy, thanksgiving in a hope that it spurs us to be more aware of these things.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But ultimately, the goal of all of the conversations we're having this month is to make this a part of our DNA, to make joy and gratitude just a part of our everyday demeanor, how we show up in life and our family and our marriages and parenting, and I am so excited to have somebody with you today.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: This is a special friend and I told her before the podcast had even launched.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I was with her at a Christmas party back in December, a few weeks before the podcast was launching, and I told her hey, you don't know it, but you're going to be on the podcast probably a couple times, probably once by yourself, once with your husband, maybe yearly, who knows?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: But this is my dear friend and our pastor's wife, betsy.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And when I was thinking through who could I have come on and just kind of talk about life and joy, betsy immediately came to mind.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell a couple of fun stories throughout our time together, but I'm going to save those.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: So, bets, would you just kind of introduce yourself to our listeners, tell us a little bit about who you are, your family, and then we're just going to jump into a fun conversation.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Awesome, nikki, thanks so much for having me.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I just love your heart for women.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I love that you want to encourage us, you want to build us up and you want to yeah, just you know encourage our hearts to be connected to the Lord, but also each other, and know that there are more of us experiencing, you know, real things in life and we need to be able to come back to the Lord, come back to His Word with our friendships and just be encouraged.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: So love your heart for women and moms and I'm really happy to be here.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: So thanks for having me on your podcast.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: So cool, exciting.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: So a little bit about me.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I've been married to my husband, john, for 31 years and we have five children that are between the ages of 29 and 22, and they're all adults, which is crazy, because forever they were all little and I was that mom that had all of these little ducklings you know trailing behind me, and now we're in this just incredible season of watching them really flourish in their adulthood.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Four of them are married and so I have four in-laws part of my family now, and these children of ours got multiplying quickly, so they were married and then, within about two years, I think we had all four weddings and then grandkids started coming quickly.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: So we rejoice.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: We've got six grandchildren under the age of three and we just found out another one's on the way.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if I've told you that, but another one's coming.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: So it's awesome, so fun.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I did know so a lot of crossover and actually your only son is the life group leader of my college-age daughter.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Him and his wife have a special relationship, so I did have a little insight on things that were going on.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Oh good, that's awesome, so exciting, so talk to me.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: You had said okay.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I have to, I have to tell kind of a funny story.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: first two two little stories.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: So Betsy is, I mean, literally.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I wish you guys could see her too.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: She has just the biggest smile all the time, so much joy.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: And my son came home about I don't know, probably three weeks ago, and he had said that he was asked a question at school.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: He couldn't remember exactly what it was, but it was.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: You know they ask those questions, like in your life you know who's been more, most influential, who's been this, who's been that?
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: And one of the questions was who do you know that radiates the most joy?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: And he's like mom.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: The only thing I could think about was Ms Betsy.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I wish you were thinking about me.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: So first of all, you hurt my feelings, but I agree with you because this is what I noticed.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And then fast forward two weeks later, him and I are doing that same trip to school, talking about Halloween, and youth group was going to have a big Halloween event and the theme this year was a duo.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: You had to dress up as a duo, and I was like you know what?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I think you need to dress up as Pastor John and his wife Betsy for Halloween.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Well, the kicker was we couldn't find any girls that didn't already have something.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: So him and his buddy male buddy ended up being John and Betsy.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Dirks and Landon took one for the team and was actually Betsy for Halloween.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if I can find a way to link the picture.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe, betsy, I wish you could he did such an amazing job.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I told you after the fact, when I saw the picture, I was like I need that wig for my bad hair days, because literally I was like it looks like my hair and his smile it was great.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, we practice the worship song Like if they make you get up there and actually act this out, this is how you're going to do it.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I laughed so hard the whole day but I just thought it was so sweet that that's what people see in you, and so I know that this is a podcast about being transparent.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: It's one of our main missions, and I just would love to have you tell us a little bit kind of about your journey to this place, where you have been able to make joy and gratitude a real centerpiece of who you are, cause I know you just didn't wake up there one day.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about that.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're, you're right, you know it's not.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: It's not one of those things that I and I'll get into this a little bit later but I don't wake up every day like just ready to skip around the house, joy filled although a lifetime, honestly of setting that as a practice.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: It's amazing what habits become real parts of your character and I think, just like if you practice the piano, you get better and better at being a piano player.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: It's the same way, if you practice being joyful and thankful and you commit to habits like that, then you look back 10, 15, 20 years and some of that comes more naturally.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And of course, the credit goes to the Holy Spirit that lives in me, because Christ has changed my life.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: So that's where the power is.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: But it has been a journey and I was thinking and really praying and preparing for this talk and the Lord brought to mind something that I'd kind of sort of forgotten about, which was probably in my sixth grade year.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I had gone on my first overnight youth camp with my church.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, at that point I love, you know, I'm all things party, I'm always about having a good time, and so of course I signed up for camp.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: But I will never forget.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I don't remember my camp counselor's name, but I think she had it in her heart to sort of sit down each girl and kind of give them a little encouragement or a little just aspire to be more than a silly little sixth grade girl.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: And she sat me down and she opened up her Bible to Proverbs 17, 22.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: And that verse says a joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit drives up the bones.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: And I remember her looking right at me saying you have something special inside of you and you have the capacity to really be good medicine to the people around you.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: You've done that to me this weekend, you know, she said, and I see that being something God's going to use in your future.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And I will never forget that.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: And I was just a young, young, you know, youth group attendee at the time and it just I think it was just planted seeds in my heart to really prepare me for what God had me just several years later in terms of coming to Him in faith and then finding out how he had put me together to be used for his kingdom, with even the gift of joy and cheerfulness.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: So I'm so thankful for her I don't remember her name, which is so sad, but I remember sitting in that cabin and her telling that.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: And then fast forward a couple of years.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I'm 15, 16.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I'm in part of a really vibrant youth ministry and I had a pastor who was I mean, he was just so dynamic, opened up the Word of God all the time and what he's really good at was pointing out and being really articulate in a winsome way, just talking about what high school Christians struggled with, and so he was so good at really just pointing out our pride, disrespectfulness, and that's how God actually brought me to himself.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: It was through this awesome youth pastor who just had the skill of the Spirit, you know, directing us and leading us.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: And so, anyhow, fast forward, I come to Christ and one of the things that changed right away was my perspective on how I could encourage people, was my perspective on how I could encourage people.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: One of the things I was honestly saved from was selfishness and self-absorption.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: That played out in a lot of disrespectfulness to my parents.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: It played out in just self-oriented.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I was just so self-oriented.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I think the Lord changed me.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: We always love to hear how God changed us when we came to Christ.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: What were the things that you could see in your life that happened, that were changed, and I can remember that I wanted to give my whole life to Jesus.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I wanted to honor my parents, which was like shocking.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be careful with my mouth.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: As a young teenager that's like a miracle, right.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: A teenage girl, I became really sensitive about gossiping, about tearing others down, and I really wanted to give my life to loving others and just jettison living for myself, and so that was part of my journey.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: That coming to faith was also just getting rid of thinking so much about myself and this newfound joy in really giving my life away for others and thinking about them.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So I remember the Lord using Philippians 2, 3 in particular, which is what ends with consider others as more important than yourself, and the joy that I found in bringing you know happiness to a room or cheerfulness to a room, or what I could do in encouraging a person.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I found it super invigorating and I really wanted to and I still really want to influence people for Jesus, and joy and thankfulness have been the avenue that God has given me to do that.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: So it's a great privilege.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: It didn't come natural, but it has been born out of the journey of just coming to Christ as a teenager and then I just am energized by pouring joy into people and I don't come up with that.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: You know it comes from the Lord, it comes from when we'll talk about that and walking with the Lord.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: But I get.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: It's like that thing where you give and it's better to give than receive, and the more I give and encourage and I love the word encourage because it's not just like I'm pouring happy sprinkles all over somebody, it's not just like sunshine coming on somebody, it's actually I want to embolden people and give them courage, um, in wherever they're, you know, whatever a friend is in that day, I really want to come alongside and encourage you and that happens.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: God's given me the ability to do that through, um, just a joyful, cheerful spirit.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: So I don't take any credit.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: It's all the, the work of, of work of the new person that God has made me into in coming to Him.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: So it's a little bit of my background and, yeah, just the journey.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Love that when you say the encouragement more than like the sprinkles, I think of the sprinkles as just somebody who's you have, somebody who's positive, and it can look very different than somebody who has a gift of encouragement and is full of joy.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And I like that analogy that you said sprinkles, because I think we can put sprinkles and positivity in the same and it can be fake and it can be exciting and it can be fun for a season, but there's not a lot of depth to it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: So I just love that.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: And I love that you brought up that sixth grade counselor that you don't even remember her name we talk so much on the podcast about, specifically for moms.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's a heavier burden sometimes on us for the power of our words, the weight of our words and that fact that you remember that that far back where you were, but you can't remember the person.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: It's the truth and just the evidence that words have so much weight, positive or negative and that they can literally change a person's life.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Right Proverbs speaks so much about the power of the tongue being life or death and how cool that that camp counselor had that impact on you.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: And for moms, we need to hear that piece of what Betsy just said and equate that into.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I know sometimes in our homes it can feel so mundane, it can feel so dishes, cleaning, laundry.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: But all day we have this opportunity, as we're at the kitchen counter, as we're helping with homework, as we're driving to the sports activities, to be using our words as life and and breath and encouragement to the very future of what maybe becomes our child's passion and gift to the world.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: And so I love that you share that.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: So, bets, how do you?
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Let's talk real practical.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the stage where you were five little ducklings in a row, because I do find that it's easier to have more natural joy at this stage of my life, I think wisdom and age and life experience.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Let's talk specifically to these young moms, to these moms that are in the throes of.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I don't leave my house.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Everything feels hard.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: How would you encourage them to find joy in the day to day?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's funny because even this week in particular, for whatever reason, it's been a little bit harder for me to find that and I have just the habit of sitting down.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I'll say my habit now and then I'll speak into yeah, well, you know you don't have five little kids around You're, you know, this empty, practically an empty nester.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So you have all the time in the world to read the Bible.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I know that's what they're all thinking, but I sat down this morning and I said you know which is what I say to myself every time I'm able to get time in the Word, it's I need to.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: The goal of every morning is to get my heart happy in Jesus, and when I come to God's Word, I want to come to it, and the goal is to walk away with a happy heart.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: And that is not a again, it's not a magic equation.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: It is coming face to face with God's word and expecting him to change me.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: When I go there.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I don't like the days that I live without a happy heart.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I'm miserable to myself, I'm miserable to my husband, I'm miserable to my children and now my grandchildren.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: And so you know I keep that goal right before me, that I don't want to leave the word of God without coming away with my heart ready to be happy in Jesus.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: And so with that, you know, I think of the times.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I can remember so many times with five little people around, where are you supposed to get time in the word, how do I get there?
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Five little people around?
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Where are you supposed to get time in the word, how do I get there?
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: And I didn't do it perfectly, of course, but I remember, I can remember so clearly days where I felt like so I was kind of a routine person and I had little times where my kids would like have a little playtime in their room, always a big napper, because I needed space from five crazy kids every single day.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: And so there was always like this one to two time or one to three time where everybody was in their room.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Whether they were sleeping or not, you know, they had to go to the room and I needed to gather my wits and get myself back on track because, you know, from 7 am to 1 pm the whole world could have spiraled out of control, including myself, and so it was kind of like a really a reset.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: But I remember when I would get to that one o'clock time and the pressure was on, I could do 10 loads of laundry in an hour, not really.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But you know, I had I could get so much done.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I could start with dinner, I could get a little, maybe a little workout in I could get.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I could do.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: You know, the list was endless that what I could get done in that hour.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: But I remember one day hearing the Lord say that, which is kind of extreme and crazy, but I just remember him saying that sitting down with me is more important than all of that and tangibly he I think he just taught me to look at it like you know, like those are temptations, perhaps even from the devil, which is kind of weird to say but just that I would look at them that strongly that they were not as necessary as getting into God's word and opening it up and allowing it to affect me and change me.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: So that sounds kind of strong, but it was really what I needed at the time because those things are so powerful.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I know what I can get done in an hour with everybody out of my hair and I feel so much better about myself when I can check the list off and I feel much better about life.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's in order and in control.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: But I just learned to look at those things as more of a temptation, like not yet, not yet.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: The devil wants me to not meet with Jesus today because that's where he's going to derail me and that's how he's going to derail me and that's how he's going to derail my parenting and derail my marriage.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Go back to God's word, and I didn't spend a whole hour in God's word.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't have that time, but I just committed I'm going to take 15 minutes and I'm just going to read, or I'll take.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm a big fan of 10, 10, 10, which is 10 minutes in the word.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: 10 minutes pray, 10 minutes journal, move on, or five five, five.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You know, just try to make those habits.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So I think what helped me was to see those as a temptation away from what was best and what could really bring life to me.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: What it feels like getting all the laundry done, starting dinner, defrosting the chicken you know the myriads of things that we could be doing when our kids are are quiet.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: They're like, you know, the Mary Martha thing.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: They're not the best thing.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Quiet, they're like, you know the Mary Martha thing, they're not the best thing.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And I knew that.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I just learned in time that I got way more.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I bore more fruit as a mom and as a wife when I just grabbed that instead of running to all the other things which I did.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: You know it didn't do it perfectly, but it helped me to see it that way.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: That's powerful when we think about that as moms.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: When I look back on my own childhood growing up, I don't really remember was there laundry in the laundry room?
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I know my mom was always doing stuff and she was always an amazing provider for us, but I do remember her always sitting on the front couch in the front room doing her quiet time and it's interesting how, as children?
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: right, we don't.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: We don't really.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I mean we, our houses need to be picked up and they need to be livable and safe and sanitary, but I've never thought about it the way that you just equated that.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Right, it's no different than somebody who's in corporate that is trying to achieve all the things to maybe validate that I am doing a good job.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I am a good mom.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I am a good housekeeper and to look at that as a distraction that's pulling us away from the very best.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I also appreciate that you pointed out I think that we can have this misconception that if you are a really strong believer, if your relationship with the Lord is really important, that it does look like an hour at five o'clock in the morning and I struggled with that.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Right, I struggled with that a long.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I'm a pastor's kid and I grew up in the church and I love that you pointed that out because again, I think about it in a relationship with a best friend.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: If I had the opportunity to be with my friend an hour or nothing, I would right, like that's not how this works, like I would love a five minute conversation, I would love a really quick coffee and, I think, just the permission.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I would love some other things too, like in the day to day.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: For me it was praise and worship music as a mom, that was the thing where I could be doing dishes.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: The kids could be doing a puzzle looking at something, and I did.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I felt like that was part of, in that stage of life, what God was calling me for communion.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Are there other things like that that you think of?
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: That were ways that you brought that into your day-to-day.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just thinking about first of all.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Again, I grew up as a.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Before you're married, you're single for a while, then you're married and you have it all perfectly scheduled out in a routine, routine is out, and then you have all these children and, oh my goodness, it just messes up the routine.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: To be okay with a 9 am you know 10 minutes in the Word, or 20 minutes because the baby actually goes 20 minutes of sleeping or 1 o'clock to kind of revamp the brain, where I still do really prefer mourning, but the fact that I preferred Jesus at any time in my day with a bunch of little people was such a win.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: So being freed up of that, being freed up to be like there's not a very specific, you are not an amazing mom, christian, woman if you don't have 20 minutes at 6am every morning to rethink that and know that it doesn't have to be defined that way.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: It's just a relationship, like you said, with the Lord.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: So be free to bat.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I think of you.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Know, I tried to write scriptures around the house.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: I'm a big three by five card gal.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: They're on my mirror in my kitchen window, they're on my mirror in my bathroom and just to trust God's word to even affect me if I happen to glance up while I'm washing my dishes and absolutely praise and worship.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: You know I love praise and worship, so we had it Well.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: It helped that John was a worship pastor for 10 years of our marriage.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I said John is a pastor right now he's a senior pastor but for 10 years of our marriage he was constantly going over worship music.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: So our home was filled with worship music still is and our kids learned to love that.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: So we were praising the Lord while we were cleaning.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: We were, you know, pick out your favorite worship.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: My kids will still to this day go back to the Shout to the Lord album which was totally going to date me.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: That was a kind of a kid's version.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: They love those songs.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: They play them now for their own kids.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: So I don't underestimate any of that.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: You know anytime where you can get truth coming in to your heart and soul.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: There's no right way to do it.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: To be freed up from that.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Just make sure you're pursuing relationship with the Lord, however it looks like that day, and some days you get 20 minutes and some days you get five.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: But no judgment, the Lord's not sitting over you judging you, he isn't calling to you, he is saying I'd love, I want to be with you as much as I can, but no judgment and no expectations in that as far as, yeah, just to be freed up of that, I think we all, as moms, feel so much pressure from so many voices.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: You know, this is how to be a great mom, this is how you'd be a great wife, this is how you'd be a great Christian.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: And we have all these voices speaking into us and I just think we have to be cautious about which are true and really shaping our thinking, shaping our identity.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm a big fan of God's Word.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't have a lot of time to listen to a lot of other voices at that time in my life, so I figured, man, if I was getting in God's Word, there was a win.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And I believe that with all my heart, if you can get God's word in your heart and soul, it will not return void, and trust that it's not going to return void.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and I want to.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I want to call it something that I feel like I can say.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: You probably wouldn't because you're on my podcast, but I think that in this, in this day and age, we can Satan can also use things like podcasts because you feel like, oh, I'm doing something good and I pray that this podcast or any other podcast that you listen to, is never in exchange for actually getting in the word, and I think there are so many things coming at us that are good that are lovely things, but that if I have to choose between I'm going to put that podcast on or I'm going to sit and listen to what God has to say or read the Bible.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And so just a good challenge for us as moms to look at what are things that are good that could potentially be stealing me away from what's best if I have to choose, if there's moments where I have to choose, and just even those things like songs, right, like the shout to the Lord, I literally am singing it in my head in the children's version that I'm sure you also listened to.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: But I mean just such simple things that now, having older children myself, a song will come on.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: We did Seeds, family Worship for our listeners I know we've talked about that, but word for word, bible scripture, that now my kids in church it's so funny If John reads a scripture and it's one of the ones that was a song like they all kind of tap down the row, like we all know this one, I love that and just the deep seated scripture number one that it puts into their hearts and for me, like for me as well as a mom, and then just how it creates those memories of oh my gosh, this is my childhood.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Praise baby is my childhood.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Praise Baby is my childhood and Seeds.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Family Worship it's Shout to the Lord, kids with all the zoo animals I think was on the cover of that CD, actually Just special times.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to take us on kind of a hard turn here because there's no real easy transition.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So we've talked a little bit about littles and I'm sure a lot of this will keep weaving in.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: But just I mean not that many years ago you had older children, things.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I don't think anybody was married yet at this point and you guys had kind of a massive, massive hurdle, hardship when you found out that one of your children had cancer.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I would be, super humbled if you would be willing to talk to us through that phase of your life and how you guys had to choose joy, how you had to choose gratitude and how that played a role into managing that season.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I remember a couple of maybe months into it I was speaking at a women's conference and one of the questions that someone said was how did you handle hearing?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: You know, one of the one of our greatest fears as moms ever.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And I remember thinking, oh my goodness, I don't remember.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: You know your ear.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: When God protects you so much when you walk through something like that and you you do hear, your daughter has cancer we all sort of we as outsiders look at it and think, oh, it is the worst nightmare, and it is the worst nightmare, it's one of the scariest things you can hear as a mom.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: But when she asked me that, I remember thinking, oh gosh, I don't even know if I processed that you know, or had realized that I'm actually going through one of the scariest things as a mom could go through.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: So I can't say enough about how faithful the Lord is in those trials and I'll just a summary was that our 19-year-old daughter had gone off to college.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: She was a freshman at college out in Southern California and fast forward just some aches and pains that I thought were pretty normal aches and pains and definitely mom fail of the year kept telling her to go to bed earlier as a college student, stop texting your boyfriend all night long, staying out with your friends and over and over kept saying it's because you're not sleeping or whatever.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And then we brought her home to do just kind of a physical and, lo and behold, she had leukemia.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So came on very quickly in about two months.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Three months of symptoms and wow you really, you don't prepare for that in one sense, you don't.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: You don't ever expect you to be the one to hear that.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: However, as I've thought about it since you know, emma is now three years in remission.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: We praise the Lord for that so much, obviously.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: But one thing I've thought about a lot is that I feel like the Lord really prepared me the 19 years, 20 years going into that, prepared me, the 19 years, 20 years going into that, which is pretty amazing of God and His kindness to me.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I remember early on in our marriage, john and I had been listening to John Piper on some messages, and one was on suffering and how you could prepare for suffering, and I was like you know, 25.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what is he even talking about?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Because I don't think I even remember I hadn't had anything really challenging happen to me at that time.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: But I remember him really saying you better be ready because the Christian life is not easy peasy.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: There are going to be hard things that come, and he really urged us to prepare for them.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: And I took that really seriously, like I don't want to be surprised and I shouldn't be surprised because 1 Peter 4 says that you know, don't be surprised if the fiery trials that come upon you as a Christian.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: And so I took that.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I just think the Lord really prepared me.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: I got really serious about studying God's character, because one of the things that happens when you have a major crisis like that is you go does God love me?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Does God love my daughter?
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Is he really loving?
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Is he kind?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Is he just up there letting random things happen?
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: You literally dive into the deep end of God's character when you have a trial come upon you because you think you know maybe he doesn't love me and I guess I would just.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Really I'm so thankful that I spent years of really preparing by just studying God's word and learning about his character over and over, reading about his sovereignty and his providence and knowing what the Bible says about that.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Before I got to that moment, of course, I didn't know it was going to happen, but I do think that the Lord, just in his kindness, really prepared for me.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So how would you prepare for something like that?
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I would just say it comes back to being in God's word.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: That is where we learn who God is.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: And you know, as I said, getting my heart happy in Jesus, I need a counseling session with the Lord every single day.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I need it today, I needed it in the days when my daughter was going through cancer.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I need to sit down with a wonderful counselor and have my soul corrected, have it taught, have it comforted, have it loved and cared for.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And you know, hebrews 4.12 says that the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword able to pierce the division of soul and spirit.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: And I can just tell you, the word of God has power to be the counsel that you need and just to trust it.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: So you know, I don't want to be like, oh, bible, bible, bible, but I do want to be like Bible, bible, bible, because it is the answer, so that even when I'm walking through cancer, you know, I think one of the questions you said is how did I maintain joy?
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, jesus is the answer.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: There's no way around it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Years of trusting in him and looking at who he is in God's word, but also just staying with doing the same things I did when I didn't have cancer in my life.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I had to write down.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I remember about a couple of months in I had to write down how do I get through today?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Like, I just need some baby steps.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And I wrote down six things and they are the simplest things, but I put them all over my house and I just thought if I can check those six things off every day, I'm going to be okay.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be okay.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: And they were open up the Bible and I forgot to even just caveat that with.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Even this week I had a really balanced, just a really bummer of a day and I went on a prayer walk and I just put on Romans 6, 7, and 8.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: And I listened to it like 10 times while I was on a walk because I couldn't even sit down.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I was just really unsettled about something.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I needed to walk it out and I just let the word of God like really speak over me.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So when I say Bible, it could be five minutes in a Psalm.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: It could be a 30 minute walk with the scriptures just filling your mind and your heart.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: It could be an hour time in his word.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: So, prayer, sorry Bible prayer, walk, move, some kind of movement.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: It could have been, you know, a couple of jumping jacks.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: It could have been a couple of sit-ups.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It could have been a quick walk around the neighborhood.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: You know, just get out, take the five-minute walk around the neighborhood.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Or it could be, you know, just get out, take the five minute walk around the neighborhood.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Or it could be, you know, just do a Pilates, if I had time, you know, or whatever, jump on the Peloton, something, just move.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Movement really helps process.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: When you're in crisis, you need your blood to flow a little bit more, and so that was important to me, and then you're going to laugh.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not I wasn't a big raw vegetable person at the time, but like if somebody.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: We had so many people blessing us in that time and that was where our you know, our church family was unbelievable.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: We had meals after meals for months and this one sweet girl would cut up veggies and cucumbers and not in a sloppy way, like in the most perfect way that I looked at those and was like I thought I was looking at chocolate, like I wanted to eat the vegetables, the way she prepared them, and I just felt invigorated, I felt healthy.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I felt like, okay, this is a good choice for me.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: So.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: And then sunshine if it meant sitting in a window in the middle of winter, sit in the sunshine If I can get outside and it was warm enough for me to just go five minutes in the sun, just allow the vitamin D to come.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Affect you.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Sunshine really helps that in life.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: And then my sixth thing was fun.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Do something fun.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Do something life-giving.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: That didn't mean I had to have a party or throw a big get-together.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Fun meant I'm kind of a nerd.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I love solitaire.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Take 20 minutes and play solitaire by yourself, or call one of the grandkids and FaceTime them, or play a game with John really fast, just something that would bring life to me.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Run and grab some ice cream.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Just let's hop in the car, olivia, let's go get some ice cream, emma wants some ice cream.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Or I'd grab, emma, let's go do something.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Let's go, you know, go to the park and go sit on that bench, just so we're outside, and just something that's life-giving and I think fun.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: It's kind of.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: One of the character traits of the Dierks family is that we have to have a little fun and again, it's not necessarily a trip to Hawaii.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: It can be as simple as crossword Get a crossword going.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Let's see if we can get our brains working a little bit and laugh about silly things that are really minor compared to cancer.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: So that's what comes to mind in that.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I remember, actually, you had posted on Facebook, I think, a picture of a post-it note that has Betsy's daily kind of essentials, and I remember I remember seeing this and I remember zooming in and thinking that is, it's so basic but it's so transformational, right?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Something so basic like eating a couple of vegetables and having a little bit of fun, that just having that ability to do that is amazing, and so I love that.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Just those simple, super simple things that I think sometimes we just overcomplicate what we need to just get through the day to do it well, to balance out the different areas.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: How did you, okay, so this is some of the ways that you did that, obviously, that trickled into your family too.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: How did you, okay?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: So this is some of the ways that you did that, obviously, that trickled into your family too.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: How did you, as you had to navigate that with four other kids who probably had a ton of fear of their own.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: John had to continue working.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: How did you just manage to not let the tone of your home go to doom and gloom?
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And maybe it's just these six things.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is those things.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: But I can you know I am a human being, I'm a real person who, again, like I, don't wake up joyful every day.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I did a lot of crying in my bed.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I did a lot because I, you know, as a mom, one of the beautiful things about being a mom, that's just inherent in us is a protective part of you.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: So what happens is I don't, I am not going to, I'm not going to affect my daughter negatively.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I feel so strongly about that and I think you know maybe some of you out there are like, oh, I'm going to, just I would melt down if it was me.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: No, you have no idea what God can do in you through the power of his spirit in those moments.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: And he, I think, just I was compelled to be like I'm going to get her through this and I'm not going to cost her, I'm not going to be a negative, you know, effect to her at every cost.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I can do so if I and I'll say this even in you know I was thinking about this in my marriage I want to add to the room.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I don't ever want to be someone who takes away from a life.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to steal life from my husband.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I don't want to steal life from my daughter.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: He's trying to, you know, really walk through cancer.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: So personally, I took a lot of baths and I had Bible verses all over my bathroom and I would just be like I'm going to go take a bath and I would go up to my bath and I would read I had several scriptures that were really important to me.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I several scriptures that were really important to me.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I can remember.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Of course I can't remember them right this second, but you know he restores my soul.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: She smiles at the future.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Strength and dignity are her clothing and she smiles at the future.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: I can remember, I love this one.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: She can trust the Lord with her future.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I must've said that to myself.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I still say that to myself thousands of times.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: So that's how I don't leak fear, bitterness, grumbling into my family.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I think it's really important that we manage our own souls really well so that they don't leak out on everybody else.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm really that's a personal value to me is that I don't get to have a day where I just get to, you know, grumble on there, they, I just get to wipe my feet on them.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: No, I feel very strongly that, and not that I don't have days like that.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I do have days like that, but I'm just compelled to be like I don't, I don't.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: It costs too much.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: It costs too much to my marriage when I do that, it costs too much to Emma when we're going through suffering, and so I just hashed it out with the Lord and didn't allow a lot of room for grumbling.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: So what happens is, when the Lord does that in you, he gives you.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: You know, the joy of the Lord is my strength.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: There were days where I was absolutely emotionally and physically exhausted, but all of a sudden, joy is eking out of me, and it's contagious.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And it's not me, it is the spirit of God in me.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: And so you know, when you really trust the Lord too, I just love you believe the word to do what it's supposed to do and believe the spirit to do what he's supposed to do, cause I'm weak and I'm I'm a, I'm finite and I'm such a clay pot, so it's just like anything coming out of me is so, so supernatural.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: So I think, though, just feeling I'm convicted and I'm compelled to really keep my tongue from evil.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean I do it perfectly, but I, I just I don't want to be the person who sucks the life out of a room, because I've done it before and I've seen it ruin days, weeks, you know, and then you're like way set back, you're in the ditch and getting out of the ditch takes days and weeks and what I've just found Nikki over time.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of time left and I don't want to waste a lot of time in the ditch and redoing what I didn't have to do.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: So I think there's conviction behind that.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: That's just as like.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have so many of all weeks Thank you.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I think it's because I said yes to being on this podcast.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I've had so much challenge to not be grateful this week, so I'm like I've got real life examples of how to work through this, because it's really been hard for me this week and I spent the day with my daughter Olivia yesterday and, man, I just was not in a good headspace, even though I had spent time of the word and I had committed to the Lord.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I am not going to grumble with my daughter today and I'm not going to gossip with my daughter today.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to do the oh, it's not really gossip, but I just am kind of frustrated with somebody.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I just I really committed before the Lord.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: It's the day I want to do that.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I want to do that all day long, because we were going to be in the car together all day long and we're going to be girl talk, and you know, that's where it kind of comes up naturally.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: And then so I committed to the Lord and then I'm just like I'm so weak, lord, you got to come help me.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: And then she just said, mom, you seem kind of off today.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: And I said I am off.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: So I just want to say to you right away I want you to keep me accountable.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I don't want to gossip about anybody.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Today are fun, you know, or the things that keep us joyful and energetic.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: And so I'm still kind of, you know, coming out of that.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: But there's the real again.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: It doesn't come out always naturally, but I'm grabbing my soul and saying no, no, not good for me, lost a day in eternity where I could make it.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: You know, for the kingdom it would have been a loss for the kingdom and I just I'm not going to be around forever and I want to live every minute for the Lord Jesus as much as it's up to me.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: So you know I think of that.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: And interesting perspective there too, because, again, this the stage of parenting you have this, you have this part of your life where you just feel like you are totally owning and navigating this, the small people stage, and then talking about even how that transitions, right, you have, you have more children and older children, but just recognizing that in my own life it it does become there still is definitely a mother-daughter relationship there, mother-son but it does become this level of friendship where I am so thankful for God and how he's just kind to us that we get to grow up and learn some of these mistakes.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Because I think now, as my children are older, if I was still operating the way I was when they were smaller, right, just the ability to now have our kids almost as accountability partners that are going.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting when you talk about like having this time with your daughter and just when you look at how life kind of transitions through different stages and the roles that we play moving into this adult children stage.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: So you have that that day with Olivia yesterday and now there's this difference in this relationship.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I'm really working through this now having a 22 year old and a 19 year old, where these kids.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Actually, they have a lot of knowledge.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: They do have a little bit of life experience behind them.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I always say there's a difference between wisdom, will always trump them on wisdom just because of age and life.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: But they do start to get it and they start to pick up on it and they start to really understand hypocrisy.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: And why can you ask me to be this way?
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: But you're allowed to dump.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: And going back to how you answered that last question, there is a part of us as moms that and I shouldn't say I shouldn't generalize For me there is a part of me that feels like I occasionally feel justified to be a little bit annoyed or a little bit upset, that I'm the one that always has to be positive.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I was just, you know, joking with my kids and I'm like I feel like a couple of you are dealing with anxiety around things.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: My husband's in a very high pressure job with a lot going on and everybody's allowed to be a little bit spidey, a little bit short, but the second, that mom, has a tiny tone of anything in her voice.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: It's like well, what's wrong with you?
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: And here I am on this menopause train, like crashing and burning internally all day and there's an expectation that mom needs to just always have it together, and we know that we don't.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: But I think what you said is so powerful in those moments of me ebbing and flowing and having to make choices.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Do I want to get so far off on this exit ramp of?
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Not only did I get off the ramp, I went the wrong way on the highway.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: And because now I'm going to be stubborn and I've committed to the fact that I'm annoyed or angry or I have justice to be upset, I'm going to keep driving until I am so far off course that I look back and I go.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Why did you not just pull off the road for two seconds, regain your composure, say a quick apology and get back on the right track?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: And I love that you pointed that out, because we hold so much power in how we teach our kids to manage their emotions and where they go with them and how they spiral, and I just love that.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Now moving into just these adult kids.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Right, you have these adult children now and you have grandchildren.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: How have you managed I get so many people that reach out to this, because I've been very open about this on social media about this transition of letting our kids go and opening up our hands, opening up our grip and letting them make choices, letting them suffer.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I think in our society right now, it's really, really hard for parents to watch our kids struggle.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: We want to be fixers and we want to take care of everything.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: How have you managed that?
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Now Kids are leaving the nest, they're getting married, they're having their own families.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: How have you managed this new role that you have that's so different than what you had for those years when they were home with you all the time?
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know just a couple of things.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: One of the wonderful things that the Lord did in giving us five children and I joke sometimes, I've said this, I know, in front of at least our women's ministry before before that the Lord kept giving me another child because I was just so self-centered, and so he'd be like, oh, she needs another one, and no, she's still struggling with selfishness, so let's give her another one.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And I laugh about that.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: But there you know, when you've got whatever two, three, four or five children around it is, there is no room for selfishness.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: There just isn't.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Your life is given away for the bettering of others, and what comes with multiple kids, though, like that, is that you can't do everything on your own.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: I think what we would say is, from the second we were having all these children, independence in the Dirks family was something we were working toward, which is kind of crazy to say, but I loved giving my little kids.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Now, of course, it's independent independence with within boundaries, but you know it's kind of a core value of the dirks is that we were working from, you know, two, three, four to get them to do things on their own.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not a big, I'm not going to do everything for you.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not, you know, the short order cook I was.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not a big fan of giving everybody a million options.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm not going to be in the kitchen all day long.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: So there's a practical side of me that when you have five children you can't have.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: You have oatmeal, you have eggs, you have pancakes no, we're all having oatmeal every single day of your life until you leave.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: So what kind?
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: of good though.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: On a good day, they get blueberries yeah.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Gosh, you sound like a horrible mom, but I was like, listen, I ain't here to you know which is it's terrible.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: We have a good family.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: My kids still like me, but I think so not there's.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: There's ways that we gave them choices, but there were also ways that we didn't, and I think the independent side is, though I wanted them to get good at things so they could help me.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Like, honestly, I didn't want to clean a whole house by myself, so I needed to help teach little people how to, you know, do different things.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I remember when they were two or three, they were matching socks and sorting underwear Great, you know, preschool thing to do, because matching and sorting comes natural to them, or they, you know it's easy for them to go in that.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: So chores were a big value at the Dirk's house, not because we were these amazing parents that knew how to really raise children, but because, just practically, you got to have help when there's this many people around.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: So so, working for each other, being part of the community and investing in back into the community, not just taking that's the beautiful thing about having, you know, five children is that nobody can do.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: I can't do it.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I just can't do it all.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: So everybody's got to contribute and I think so independence was a value from the beginning.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: However, independence under authority, you don't get to run off and do your own thing, and so when you're we've talked about, I think, at church that zero to five is when you're when you're really teaching about authority.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: So independence and authority.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Can they tie their shoe when they're two?
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Well, so independence and authority, you know.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Can they tie their shoe when they're two?
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Well, they want to.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: But you know just that that's kind of, you know, tricky, but it's also you're always going to come back under me.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: So when they're that young, you're teaching that I'm the boss and you're not the boss, because I don't know what it is about preschoolers is they want to be the boss of themselves.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, I still want to be the boss of myself, whether I was two or 20 or 50.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: So coming under is not in our nature, and I think that's really important as parents in that preschool age is that they learn to come under and then, as they grow, you give a little more independence.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: And so for us it was.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit the practical working out of having so many in a family that we would be like yeah, go mow the lawn.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: We actually need you to mow the lawn and I can trust you to do that.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: I'm watching you out my window and it just sort of progressed.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: So I guess what I like to say is we are letting go of our kids the second they walk out of the house.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: For me it was kindergarten.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Our kids went to public school.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: I had to let Luke go to half-day school and I had to say to myself Lord, he's not mine and there's nothing I can do to keep him protected from this world.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: And so I think you start letting out the rope.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: You know a little at a time.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Of course, when they're five it doesn't look like when they're seven or when they're 10 or when they're 15, but there's this idea of letting out the rope as they've proven responsible.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: So it helps to start a little bit early so that you know out the rope as they've proven responsible.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: So it helps to start a little bit early so that you know everyone listening in and does this a little bit differently.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: But I think the more you can let them do it and they've proven themselves responsible, they also stand a little taller.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I can remember when my kids did a certain chore for the first time or helped me in a significant way, made a meal, and they were successful at it.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love getting my kids to a place of success, independence.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: I love it, like I.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I'm like this boom, we've won, we've hit the mark, which is I want these kids to be successful human beings that I'm not next to.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: So I think our goal up until you know, by 18, we wanted these people contributing to the world.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I wasn't hoping that would happen by 25 or 35.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I was hoping by 18 and while they were still in our home, that they would be people who contributed to the world around us.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I love the verse Psalm 144, 12, that says let our young men be as mature plants and our daughters as corner pillars for a foundation.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I think that is awesome.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I'm so just energized by the idea of making little people strong, flourishing people so that when they're 18, they're not still.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: And again, 18 is kind of a relative number, let's just say 28.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Pretty sure most of you out there don't want your 28 year old still living in your basement playing video games.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: So, I think I just had dreams.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I have dreamed for my children to be successful, and I don't just mean that from a business perspective or a social perspective, I mean even from a spiritual perspective, that at 18, they're contributing to the world around them, they're contributing to the church that they're a part of, they're contributing now to their marriages and their parenting.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: They're legitimate adults able to contribute.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: So I just love that verse because I think it allowed me to aspire to be like.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I think the bar is so low for parents with their kids.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: We keep the bar so low that you know, oh, you know, they would never be able to do that.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, they can do so much If you strengthen, encourage, believe, pray, speak into they really have capacity.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: So all of that, to answer your question, you know how did I let go?
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I think I started early saying they're not mine and you have to face all those fears over and over again.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: I mean I took my kids to the altar, like Abraham took Isaac over and over and over.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: I put him back on the altar.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Put him back on the altar.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, there he goes, he's driving away for the first time with all the rest of my kids.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, put him on the altar.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: You know that first drive out.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: When Luke got his license, it was like my whole world just drove away.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: No, I got to go back to the story in the Bible with Abraham going to the altar with Isaac, like if, if you're asking it of me, lord, he's yours, he's not mine, and I can trust you with his future.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: So thousands of times have I gone to the altar with fears letting go.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Can I really?
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: You know it's oh, it's one in the morning.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Where are they they?
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: They said they'd be back at one.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, is she coming back?
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: I've been through all of those feelings.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: But they have to grow up too, because they got to stretch a little bit and when you were 18, you didn't want that lid on you being like you can't grow, or try to be a little grown up.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I think that that's a great answer, betsy, and it is.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: It's that getting starting to loosen?
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Or, as I always have the visual, I think it was a pastor that once said we want to hold specifically.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that we're like, yes, god, it's yours, it's yours, it's yours.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: And then, as parents, we have our kids so closed fisted, and it's just this 18 years of slowly prying open our hands to the point that at 18, you do, hopefully way before that but like open hands, they're yours, go use them.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Open hands, they're yours, go use them.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: And I think that's just a powerful reminder to start doing that a little bit younger.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I think we've just kind of gotten a little bit sideways on how we want to take care of our children beyond what maybe is normal.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: So, betsy, we have had so much amazing conversation and we still have a lot of questions on our list and I want to definitely dig into some marriage stuff, some grandparenting, this next season of life and the treasure of prioritizing marriage, and so we're going to turn this, friends, into a two-parter, because there's a lot more good.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: So we're going to wrap up today's here with the parenting and just that good little challenge of how to show up with gratitude.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: And then we're going to come back next week and talk a lot more about marriage with Betsy, because she has so much more to offer us.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: So, friends, be sure that you share this episode.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: This is just chock full of wisdom and encouragement for young mamas, older mamas, grandmas.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: It's for all women, and I just want to encourage you to just quickly, whether you share it on your social, you text the link directly to a friend do that today and encourage someone else.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: So until next week, friends, take care.