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The Divorce Glow Up: Retiring at 40 and Finding Freedom in Bali After Divorce · Building the Best You

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Because what I realized the shame that comes from society and the brokenness that we feel inside as women that maybe we're over 40, we don't have children often comes from societal narratives and conditioning.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: And because of my whole healing process of me questioning every single thing possible, then I started, started question wait, is this true?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: That if we don't have children as women now we're no longer worthy?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And so I really went down that path of wait a second.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's true, because statistics actually says the happiest group are never married no children.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Women are the happiest group are never married no children.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Women are the happiest group of people.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the House of Jermar podcast, where wellness starts within.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: The House of Jermar is a lifestyle brand, empowering women to live all in through interior design and personal wellness.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: We are a destination for women ready to reimagine what is possible in their homes and lives and then create it.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: We are honored to have you join us on our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I am your host, jean Collins, and I invite you to become inspired by this week's guest.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the House of Jormamar podcast.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, jean Collins, and today, oh my goodness, everyone I am so excited I have Clover Lamb on the show.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: This woman talk about inspiring, talk about just a badass entrepreneur, someone who is embracing wellness all the way.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: She has made so many risks.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: She has stepped outside of her comfort zone and anyone else's comfort zone.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: She started her own business.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: She retired at 40.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: She got divorced at 30.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Her business, the Divorce, glow Up.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: She has a whole process and I am so excited to talk to you and guess what?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: She's coming to us from Bali.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Hello, yes, clover, welcome to the show.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the amazing introduction.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'm super excited to share my journey with your audience.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can't wait Now.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Normally I try not to read people's bios, but I am going to read just a smidge of this because your bio is so good.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So you are a post-divorce wellness coach, a viral content creator, which we're going to talk about that because I got to tell you she's built this amazing following and the founder of the Divorce Glow Up.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: It's a transformational method helping millennial child-free women rebuild their lives from the inside after heartbreak.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Oh my, we have so much to talk about.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: All right, so let's take a step back and let's start with your story and how you got to being an entrepreneur and being the head of the Divorce Glow Up.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, of course it has to start with my own divorce 10 years ago.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: And I remember I was having a pretty good time I was living in Hong Kong at the time with my ex-husband and one day I was just brushing my teeth, having my morning routine I would glance at my own reflection in the mirror and a voice came out and it said you don't love him, you're only here for security.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So I realized that was like my highest self was speaking to me, but of course I ignored it.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, ah, there was not much wrong with our marriage, like I'm just overthinking, so I just suppressed it, didn't really think much.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: And lo and behold, two months later my ex-husband said the d word divorce and I was shocked still, even though I had that like intuition ping two months before.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: But I was still like shattered completely.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I was really shocked.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I was emotionally dependent on him, financially dependent on him.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I even geographically moved from Canada to Hong Kong for his career advancement and so when he left, I was left with like the anchor is gone, my identity is gone and like even I wasn't even home.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: So that pain felt like a death but also a rebirth.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So I really took that as an opportunity to question everything, really Revaluate everything in my life.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: And from there I went back to my old job, which felt kind of like a walk of shame, because everybody knew I was like, oh, she's, you know, moving to Hong Kong with her husband, she's going to have this great life, and now I'm going to be like, sorry guys, I'm back, so that, however I like lean into it, and I became more vulnerable.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Well, before you shit talk me, let me actually just tell you what happened.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And it became this like connection point that I had with people and before Brene Brown was a thing I realized vulnerability it's actually like the antidote of shame.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So, like I really like got into it.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And then I started traveling more using my flight attendant benefits and traveled to 47 countries, so many of them solo, pushed myself out of comfort zone in every single way and stumbled across financial independence as well, because the first thing that I realized I really had to take care of myself for after divorce is security, because my highest self said to me you're only here for security.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, yes, you listened.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and nobody is here to save me anymore, so I really have to save myself.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: So that was when I leaned into the concept of financial independence.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Retire early, they call it FIRE, and I've been investing ever since, and it's been 10 years, so now I have my investment portfolio.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: So I retired early, quit my 20-year flight attendant job and now moved to Bali.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, and you skipped so many things in that story that I know about you, so I'm going to pull some other things out of there.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Which is amazing, like retiring at 40 is unbelievable.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Having financial freedom is incredible.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about what made you decide I'm ready to retire, I'm going to leave the flight attendant world and I'm going to go find something else that was actually not a spontaneous decision, although it seemed like that, but it was actually a five-year planning process.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: So during COVID I got laid off temporarily from the flight attendant job and so, you know, when you had all that time, you go inward, you reflect and you look at what's happening even deeper than when I was divorced.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: So I realized that flight attendant lifestyle is fun but it wasn't really my highest calling and I knew that when I first got hired.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: But I got comfortable Like the lifestyle.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: It's like I worked only 10 days a month, I had a pension, my flight was essentially free Like it's so cheap that it's free.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: So it was kind of hard to let go of that comfort and it was also the safety net that I could come back to after my divorce.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: So I felt like, okay, that's just something I need to hang on to.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: But then during COVID it really pushed me further into like wait, what is my highest self really wanting me to do?
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: But I didn't have a thing right that, could you know, provide me me monetization.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: So that's a lot of fear going through my head and my body.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I could feel it like coursing through my veins and so it paralyzed me in so many ways, and then I tested different ideas business ideas like I started something called unconventional asians.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: It's a podcast, uh, featuring really badass Asians who are not in the STEM field, like doctor, engineer, lawyers.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: I think Asians would understand what I'm saying because that's the only three jobs that we're allowed to do, um, so things like that.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: That I was like opening myself up to like coaching, to therapy and to life beyond just self-development but healing and the possibility of what I could do with my life, and as I tested, that didn't really work out.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: And then I went to money coaching because I of my financial independence.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: That didn't really like encapsulate everything about me and eventually I now pivoted to divorce.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Wellness coaching for women, because it's really my life's work, my whole life story.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: That encompasses everything, and so that's why I am here.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: That is, um, I really you are so incredible because you also do the work.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: So I have a question.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: What's so interesting is as you talk, the work.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So I have a question.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: What's so interesting is, as you talk right and I'm familiar with all this right Doing this inner work, asking the hard questions, stepping outside your comfort zone, but a lot of people are paralyzed at step one.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: They are paralyzed at even asking the questions and even like trying to find a path.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: So how?
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: For yourself personally and I know that's what you help people with now but for yourself personally, while you're going through it, what did you actually do during COVID to try to uncover this path for yourself?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I have a framework called the Radiant Self Reclamation and what I realized because I was exposed to all these healing modalities and these coaches on my unconventional Asian platform, I realized the healing process is about unraveling what's not yours, yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: And this radiant self-reclamation method?
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: It's that I find that all people are born like a diamond.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Imagine a diamond in the middle.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: You were born perfect, radiant, resilient.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: It has some edges, but it's like a specific, unique blueprint to you, because every diamond is very unique but it's perfect.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: But then we go through life putting on this mask, these layers, to protect that radiant self, because society tells you you shouldn't be too loud, too much, whatever you know, and so we keep putting on layers, this facade, over and over again, so that we're so far away from our authentic radiant self.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: And I think that divorce was the cracking open of those layers of now you're reevaluating everything in your life, let's question everything and peel back those layers.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Then you can finally come back to your authentic self.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So the divorce was the initial initiation of that process and COVID was the even deeper layer, because it's always like peeling an onion.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And then I really then came to that truth of who I am now.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you feel about having a narrow purpose like a narrow target audience?
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: oh, that feels so good because I was experimenting for so long and everything seems like they go together, but they don't.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: So I was kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall, yeah, and it felt like, was I doing something wrong?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: People always tell us we need a niche, and so this is like the perfect thing that encapsulates everything about what I do, but it's like clear enough and about who I'm serving, which is like the perfect combination.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly, yes.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Well, and I will tell everybody I know you from Brand Builders Group and which we are both a part of, which is really about helping build a personal brand and finding your niche and finding your purpose and what you are mission-driven messenger for and really what that is for you, and then helping you build that out into the world.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And so I can see some of that work in what you're doing and just how clear you are about who you are to serve.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And one of the other brand builder things are we're best positioned to serve the person that we once were, and I find for myself personally, I attract executive women who are in the same space, you know, burned out, overwhelmed at crossroads.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: That is my niche, that was me, and so your niche is so you, because you are serving women that you once were and have come out of it.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly yeah, and we're in our purpose.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: We turn that pain into purpose.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: You did Correct.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Now let's talk about one other thing which is unique about you.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: You also don't have any children, and you talk about that as a powerful thing, so can you talk a little bit about that?
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Because what I realize the shame that comes from society and the brokenness that we feel inside as women that maybe we're over 40, we don't have children often comes from societal narratives and conditioning.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And because of my whole healing process of me questioning every single thing possible, then I started question wait, is this true?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: That if we don't have children as women now we're no longer worthy?
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And so I really went down that path of wait a second.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's true, because statistics actually says the happiest group are never married.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: No children.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Women are the happiest group of people and the second happiest group of people, who also live the longest, are married men Right Interesting.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: So that means that married women oftentimes have to do a lot of the emotional labor, the housework, but they're also working because we have come into a society where you know the feminine empowerment movement, where we're allowed to have jobs.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Now we can make money, but the masculine hasn't caught up to the emotional intelligence that they are providing us.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: So there is an imbalance of the invisible work that women have to put in and not being acknowledged for it, and so I think a lot of us are waking up to question is that like a patriarchal conditioning or is it something that we truly want?
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And it's a question that I've asked myself after divorce why, why do I want kids beyond what society told me that it's why I want it, and I realized my answer was legacy is why I wanted kids.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: But legacy doesn't have to be done through a child, correct.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: It can be done through my wisdom that I'm sharing with people and I then find that my business is my baby.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, and this is my legacy and I can actually help more people, not just the one kid or the few children that I'm going to bear.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Say never when I find the right partner.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe I will do that one day, but at this point in my life I don't see myself in it and that is okay, and I've completely made peace and happy with that decision.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Which is a lot of work, and I think you can offer that as value to so many women who really struggle with that and really, at your core, being space of being okay with where they are now and trusting that, however it's meant to be in the future is how it is meant to be.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about Bali.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, what?
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So?
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I've been following you on Instagram and your whole like Bali experience, which is, oh my God, amazing.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: So how did you decide Bali is where you're going next?
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Mm.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: So as a flight attendant I've traveled a lot and before COVID I actually slow traveled like digital nomads.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Before digital nomads was even a thing.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I already knew of that lifestyle.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: With even a thing I already knew of that lifestyle and a lot of the financially independent people that I know are already living that lifestyle.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: So I've tried Bali, I've tried Thailand, I've tried Vietnam, all these popular spots and I know Bali it's the eat, pray, love destination.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is Uh-huh, yeah, and I come to to Bali, not actually as the reason most people think not to be in paradise, which it is, but it's actually to focus on my business.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, because most people, most women who go through heartbreak, tends to love Bali for the healing energy and for the community, and so this is actually the first reason why I'm in Bali.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: But I talk about alignment a lot and it is very aligned to me, like down to how I like to dress, like Bali island life.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: That's actually how I like to dress and how I like to express and the food that they have here.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: It's what I like to eat and the cost of living is so affordable that it just like everything just works perfectly and there's such a big digital nomad entrepreneur community here that I can learn from each other and just oh, it's so amazing.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I go to meet up groups like three times a week, just learning from so many other people, and so this is like the perfect place for me to really focus on my business and thrive and not have to worry too much about finances.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, you post things and you'll be like here's my meal for five US dollars and I'm like, oh my goodness, that's insane.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: So, just for people who might not know, how would you define a digital nomad?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: A digital nomad to me is someone who can work remotely, so they work on the laptop and they're not confined to a location.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: So basically, location independent Right.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, and you went to Bali with like a suitcase of stuff and that was it, a big suitcase, a check-in suitcase and a backpack.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And how long.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: When you left, how long were you intending to stay?
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Like, what was your plan?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, like forever.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: So what did you do with everything else you own?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: You're like I don't own anything else, I only because I remember you were posting on instagram about the process of having to like narrow it down to what you were going to bring.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what did you do with all the other?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And I just asked this because we're often so attached myself, personally, I definitely am to our personal belongings and that those are part of us and part of your journey.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Is that you don't have all of that with you while you're doing this journey and building this business?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just such a great question because the thing is I have done this several times of moving places and purging things.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Part of my unique story with finances is that I used to own real estate and the financial independent space actually talks about investing.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So I made the really crazy choice of selling my condo to rent a room and invest the equity into socks, and that opens up a lot of flexibility.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Now to be able to live in a room, that means you have to let go a lot of stuff.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, but it was a very conscious choice because I noticed myself, even when I own the condo, I literally only stay in the room Like I actually don't use the living space, and so I'm like wait, if I don't even use that space, why am I paying for it?
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So it's not really for me a sacrifice.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: The rest of the time I'm out traveling anyways, and so now I've built this life where I'm doing the same thing, and so when you don't have that much space, you naturally pare down your belongings, but then this digital nomad lifestyle that I'm embracing really forced me to go even further down into like a suitcase, because the thing is with traveling is that you are the person who carries your stuff.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's so uncomfortable every time if you do have to and I'm like a small girl for me to like carry that many things, yes, and so for me it's more my sanity that I'm saving, that I can always buy little things on the road that I would need, that I can dispose of later, but I only keep the things that truly like, maybe have meaning, and they're surprisingly a stuffed animal that I'm bringing that are taking up so much space.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: But to me it's like a memory.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: But everything else to me can be disposed.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Can go Right.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And you did bring your pillow, I thought that was really cute.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: You brought.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: You're like, I'm going to bring my pillow and you carried your pillow on the plane.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I remember you being grateful that you had your pillow, so in your journey in Bali.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So where have you landed now?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: In terms of how long are you going to stay in the place that you are renting right now?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in this current place for four months, four more months, because I have the visa for Bali for six months.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, got it.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: This is more tax things, but also weather.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So I came from Raincouver, we call it, and so I really don't want to repeat that again whenever possible, and so I'm escaping the rainy season from Bali.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to leave in November to go to Thailand, when it's perfect weather in Chiang Mai also a digital nomad haven and then go to Vietnam, which is the perfect timing during February and April.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: So this is like optimizing taxes and weather, basically.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, all good things, all good things.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So in your journey to getting to living in the place that you're living in now, you did some exploring and stayed in different places to get a lay of the land.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: What was the hardest about going through that process?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Great question Lifestyle design really knowing what you want, want what elements make you happy as a person and everyone is so different.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, I don't care too much about space, like how much space I need, but I need convenience, so I prioritize that over the amount of space that I have.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: So I noticed that about myself.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I like water a lot, yeah, being closer by the beach, and so I prioritize that too.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if you know about Bali, the different pockets of it.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I'm in the beach side, the beachy towns called.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Chenggu.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: And then there's also Ubud, which is where Iprela was built, but it's all like lush greens and forests and there's no beach, and that's why I'm not there, because I know that I like the beach.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: You want the beach.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Right, you post about the beach.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: The beach looks amazing, yeah, amazing just being aware of, like, what your values are, how you, what lights you up, I think, with lifestyle design is how I come to this place, and costs as well, because I was a money coach and so I like try to optimize everything possible right, right, you're living.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: You are living off a budget.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Let's, yeah right, like money is not infinite, you are living off a budget, but you're doing an amazing job of doing it.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about creating content.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: And then we're going to dig into your formula and everything that you do in coaching.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: But let's talk about content.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: What may you have in your description of who you are as a content creator?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: You create a lot of content on Instagram.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: You, I think, create a lot of valuable content, yet have come across one of the challenges that people have on social media of getting the wrong type of followers, who are not positive, are not welcoming, are not sending out positive notes about what you're posting.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: So first let's talk about how did you decide you wanted to create content and put yourself out onto social media creating this content?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a role model, be a role model especially in this type of taboo topics that people don't really talk about, especially for Asians I think that is quite rare.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of shame that comes in to the whole topic of divorce.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: And I've done my walk of shame for many years and I'm no shame anymore so not to say I'm completely no shame, but I've processed a lot of it and so I feel the it would be such an inspiration for others for me to be the guinea pig, to put myself out there, so then they can see that, hey, I can be the permission for you to have your best life after divorce.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: It's not the end of the world, really.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and I don't know if you know about human design, yes, and human design, I'm a 3-5 profile, okay, so it means it's the life experimenter, so it is the guinea pig that I'm going to go into the hole, let me find what's inside the hole and I'll come out and like so you don't repeat the same mistake.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of what I'm like literally wired to do and I'm like not afraid to do it and it's fun for me.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well, I remember when I first started following you and you were starting to create content, it was like you created it all horizontally and I'm like, but that doesn't really work on reels.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And then you like figured it out and you were like, okay, wait, let me.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And you were just so honest, though, about like I'm kind of playing, I'm just sharing my life, I'm trying to figure out what people want to know, what people want to see.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: You were really honest about it.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: How do you deal with the people that respond negatively?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: How do you keep that from penetrating your energy?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Because it's hard not to take it personally.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: That was an entire process.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: It's the inner work that we've been doing that is helping me navigate that, not to say that I still don't get bothered by it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I think I still have like maybe 5% left, but at the beginning it was very, very triggering to all the wounding that I needed to see.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And one good thing about like the whole in-lure work is that I think triggers are opportunities for healing, yes, and so if I get bothered by those comments, that is that okay, perfect opportunity.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Let me see what, what I do.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I need to really heal, and so the more that comes, it almost becomes like um, like a leverage that I can either use it as content to empower more women or I just see them as projections of what society is still dealing with and why my work is even more important than ever.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: So then these women feel like wow, okay, like she gets projected on a lot.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Well, three, five projector also can project it on a lot and so just like making peace with okay, like being in the limelight, getting trolls is actually a good sign, because people actually care enough for a stranger to use their energy to write something on your post actually means you made it right so it's like, oh so when the first day that I ever got trolls, I'm like, oh my god, I made it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: That is such a made it.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: That is such a good reframe.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: That is such a good reframe it really is, because it's hard when people don't see the value in your message and your message is so personal.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: It's hard to not take that personally as a personal insult to you, but I love the reframe of it and I also like how you reframed it as they are projecting, which is also so important when we talk about growth, work like someone else is projecting themselves onto you.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean it's actually even about you, it's actually about them.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, of course, there is accountability as well, and so it's like which part of it is projection from their side and which part is it it's triggers on my side and being able to even discern that was propelling my growth actually.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: So these tools were helping me in a way, for my healing.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: That's so great, so wonderful, all right.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about your business, because you are in Bali and to some people, if they only follow you every once in a while, it looks like you know massages, incredible food, walking on the beach.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: But yet I know you actually work like eight hours a day.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: You actually are working.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: You go to a workspace and work.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: So what are you working on?
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: There is a lot of pieces to building a business, as we know.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: But on the outside, people see, oh, you're making content.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: How hard can that be?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: But imagine you're making like a mini movie where you're the director, you're the actress, you're the script writer, you're the videographer, you're the editor just that, just that's just content.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: A videographer, you're the editor, just that, just that's just content.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Right, and then you have to think of ideas.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: So that's like you doing that.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: It's already a full-time job and you're managing the people's comments.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: And then there's the backend of like, okay, you're going to build your message.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Uh, what kind of program are you developing?
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: What kind of thought leadership that is original, that is yours, what kind of framework?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: And so those are the things that I was working on.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: So then I can deliver quick wins for my clients that create transformation, because I'm not like.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I'm really about authenticity and integrity, and so I've walked the walk.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: But I also need to create tools for my clients to be able to get results.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: And so testing on myself and making sure to simplify all the things that I've been doing in the past in a way that is simple to understand, and so all these inner workings is happening in the background that I'm working away, which it's not really seen, you know, it's just really in the background work Right and it takes a lot of time to create that content, to create a framework, to create whatever that content is that you're going to give to your clients the steps, the process explaining it though, the questions, the probing, the work it's.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: It's a lot to build that.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know that people appreciate that quite enough.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: So how do your coaching clients find you?
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: A lot of them come from Instagram.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: They do, yeah.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: So right now I'm also doing networking in Bali as well as another way to get the words out there, so it can be a word of mouth, and being on podcasts and just basically exposing myself as in many ways as possible.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So that is how I am getting my exposure right now.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Do you ever have days where you have a little imposter syndrome, like is anyone going to care?
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Is this really a value?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Does anyone really want to buy my services, work with me, all the things?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Does that ever happen Like every day?
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, thank you.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I'm glad to know you're human All right Every single day.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome to being an entrepreneur, everybody.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: This is real life, exactly so what do you do?
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: What specifically do you do to deal with that?
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Because fear and imposter syndrome is very, very real for entrepreneurs, especially when you are trying to pave a way that feels very personal and that is new and that doesn't exist.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: What do you do to deal with that?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I think I needed to have evidence.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't trust like the oh, believe in yourself, and all of that stuff.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I need like tangible evidence to believe it.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And so right now, when I'm talking to my clients, talking with potential clients, I see that like something is clicking within them and it's like okay, that is working or what is not resonating.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: And just tweaking that as the three, five and so even that process to me is actually really fun and realizing how much I actually know when I talk to people, because sometimes you're completely blinded by your own gifts because you kind of take it for granted, of course, but when you reflect that back out and you're like, oh, actually maybe I've done something in my life and so that's helping me really affirm.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: And the second thing is I taught I talked to Chad I call him Chad, chad GBT, and I really like even the trolls and stuff like that.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I'm having a lot of self-doubt.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I call him Chad, chad GBT, and I really like even the trolls and stuff like that.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I'm having a lot of self-doubt, Like I'm typing all the things Like, why am I having all these thoughts and the validation that comes back, but also not just you know, all acknowledgement, but what are the blind spots that I needed to see so that I can become better?
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: And just knowing that, like, any new skill is not supposed to be perfect and your client only needs you to be a few steps ahead, not all the way, and in fact, if you're too perfect, you're not relatable.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, and and that's a mentor.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about how can you care enough for them to lift them up?
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Just right, a few steps up.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Right, and you don't have to have it all figured out either in order to be able to make that step.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And we never will Right, which is such an important point, because so many people don't step into their purpose and don't step into their calling because they don't.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: They feel like they don't have it all figured out, and you've mentioned that a couple of times.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Like you knew, being a flight attendant, wasn't it?
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: But you weren't sure what was.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: And that's a very common space.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: And even entrepreneurs, as we are building our business, we don't always know where it's going and representing to people and showing them that that's actually okay.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: This is a journey.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Everything in life is a journey.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: There is no end.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: The end is when you die, but it's all a journey, and so you make such an important point, and I've had other coaches and entrepreneurs come on and say, as a coach, you just have to be a few steps ahead of where someone is, because you already know more, have done more, experienced more and have value to add to them, which is beautiful.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: So let's talk for a minute about wellness within your life, because you are in Bali and to me, I'm like Bali massage, facials, incredible food outside, sun, exercise, walk beach, so meditate to me feels very like home.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Everyone is meditating, everyone is tapping in Nord, everyone is living this very inner wellness lifestyle.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Is it really like that?
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's so motivating when everyone is doing that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is it and everyone has a business.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: So it's okay, like everyone, because I think, as entrepreneurs, there's this drive to be always improving in a way, and so we're motivated, we're growth mindset, and so we know that you're how you prepare your vessel yes, how, and the energy that you give off will translate to the outcomes of your business.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: So inner wellness translates to outer wellness, right, and so it has to be that balance.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And so being in Bali which is something very interesting I never thought of, but obvious in hindsight is there is this spiritual energy about Bali that makes you confront a lot about yourself.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: It's a bit feminine in nature and it's been said multiple times by other cultures, by other healers that have moved from a different country to Bali.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It attracts a certain type of people.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: So you're like you either it feels so uncomfortable that you will leave Bali or you face it head on, and so everyone who is here then it's gravitating towards that, like higher version of ourselves that we're working towards Doing the work.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Is that the one thing that surprised you the most, or are there other things that have surprised you?
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was surprising because I've been here before, but it just more like how crowded it is now since the pandemic because there's more remote work, there's more digital nomads around the world and so bali has kind of become that place for a lot of us.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Also, the cost of living and inflation is getting out of control in like first world countries and so a lot of people are kind of doing the four-hour workweek concept like from tim ferris, so they call it geo arbitrage, meaning making money from the us like usd right, like great currency, but then like spending indonesian rupee out, just like yes so that's like just that alone you're getting a great lifestyle for nothing, but you're still making a lot, and so that's how you save money, that's how you can invest the difference and stuff like that, and so I think everyone who comes here like understand that.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that is so powerful.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: It's like that.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I went to Portugal recently and the cost of living there is so inexpensive compared to the United States.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: But everyone we spoke to was like but if you're making money here, it's not, it's actually very expensive.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: So the key is you need to be making US type of money, doing something remote, and then have that be what's supporting your lifestyle in a country like Portugal or Bali or all these places where it's less expensive.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: That's the financial key to it.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Do you want to talk at all about your eight step process, your pillar process?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really my own transformational process that I've gone through in the past 10 years in the most condensed, simple way possible.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: So the first two steps, it's really inner wellness, right, it's about peeling that, those onion layers that you've been masking towards your radiant self.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: So it's first rewriting the story mindset of going from being a victim of divorce to a victor.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, and how do you catch yourself when you're going back into that victimhood?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: And we all do in our own way, right, like the thoughts in our mind.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: And I have a process, a tool called the peace tool, that actually gets you back into, like wait, which thoughts do I want to choose right now?
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, so that's a first pillar.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And then emotional healing, of course.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: But emotional healing was interesting is that most people think they're feeling, but they're actually thinking what they're feeling?
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, big difference, big difference.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: But yes, you know the book, the Body Keeps the Score.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: But yes, you know the book, the body keeps the score.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Emotions and trauma is stored in the body, not the mind.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: So a lot of people, their first step, which is great, it's therapy, but a lot of times that's like mind stuff, it's the stories, right.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: So the second step is actually the somatic stuff, the nervous system stuff, and so emotional healing because I'm certified in embodiment is how I teach my clients to process the emotions out of the body as it comes, so then it can be released.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, so that's the unraveling part of my program, yeah, and then the third part is now finding that radiant self, reclaiming your, your identity Like who?
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: are you after the marriage?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Who do you want to be?
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: That highest self right.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And then now you have the foundation, because you have kind of removed the trauma that's not yours, and then you know who you are and then you can glow up in all the areas of your life, like money, like your lifestyle design, like your body, your health, finding friends after divorce, because we tend to lose a lot of people, um, and also dating again if you want to.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: And how do you date from wholeness not desperation.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, you'll attract something very different yeah, and so this process is in order.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: So then you're doing things like on a foundational level, like my mistake was dating pretty quickly after divorce.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, because I needed to feel validated, like, oh, I'll be worthy again if I someone else like likes me, someone wants me yeah.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: But, like now, I realize that's step eight, not step one, and so I hope to help my clients, like not to repeat the same mistakes that I did, to go through the pain again, like after divorce, the date, and then like, get like abandoned or whatever You're reliving it.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: You're hurting yourself again.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Right, it's just more pain on top of the pain you have from before.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: So how do we spare you from the pain.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, now do some people come to you even though they are the ones who have chosen the divorce.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: So divorce has been their choice, but yet they still have to deal with a lot of the same process emotion unraveling inner work 100%.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: And I think, a lot of the same process emotion unraveling inner work 100%.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the ones that chose to get divorced it's like a lot of them come from maybe having a narcissistic ex-husband, and so they love their ex-husbands.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: It's just that this is so unhealthy that they have to leave.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that pain is still the same.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: It's because you love that person so much, but you also love them and love yourself enough to be like, okay, I can't do this, but you're so used to being with that person and you built a whole life with them.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: So you still have to rebuild.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, you still have to grieve, you still have to let go of all those layers.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: So it's a similar process.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, I could see that.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: All right, what's on your bucket list?
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: What else do you want to do?
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Obviously, you have travel plans, but what else?
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: What else do you want to do?
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Of course I'm building my business want to do.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Of course I'm building my business.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: But personally, something just came up to me is I saw there is underwater modeling, what's that?
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: So I always as a kid wanted to be a mermaid.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, because I love swimming.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I was a competitive swimmer, I did open water swimming, but then I want to combine it with like photography, like that's like really beautiful, but then I cannot hold my breath for a very long time underwater, even though I was a very good swimmer.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I've been like breathe pretty often.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: So it would be so cool, if I can like, because I saw someone.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Someone in Bali actually has a course that help you post underwater and have videographers and photographers to actually create those photos for you.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: And so that's so cool, it's on my bucket list.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: That's different.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is stretching yourself tapping into your child freedom.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: That's incredible.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: What a fun thing.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: All right, so is there anything that I did not ask you that you want to be able to share about your journey or your business or how you're trying to help people?
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: No I think you've covered everything Good, but then that's good, all right.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Before we close, I always ask everyone to recommend a book.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: I'm a true believer.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Books change lives, a book that has impacted them either personally or professionally.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: So what book or book some people can't narrow it down to one.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Would you like to recommend to the listeners that they should read?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: This book is so perfect because it encapsulates everything that we talked about.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: It's called Many Lives, many Masters, by Dr Brian Weiss.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because nobody talks about this book.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: I've never heard of it, and that's rare.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: This book is interesting.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: It's a true story of a psychiatrist doing past life regressions on a young patient.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Ooh, so, and the things that she's been saying?
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: She would go through different lifetimes and describe even the death process in between, yes, but most importantly, what she learned from each lifetime.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: And she would paint so many details to like that historical time as well, yes, and so if you believe in incarnation, you could say like this is pretty real, because she was able to actually like, cite the details of history.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: As a young girl, like that shouldn't happen.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: But anyways, the whole moral of the story that I got from it was that each lifetime that you're here for is to learn lessons for your soul to evolve and to grow.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: So that means that every struggle is the gift for your soul to ascend.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: And so then now and I read this book, like in my late teens, like 18, 19, pretty young and I've gone through a lot of other trauma child trauma in my past, where my parents got divorced, my dad always committed suicide, all the things Right and so I've turned basically every struggle into like an empowerment process of okay, you know what my soul wanted?
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: This, this is how I grow, and so I think that's why it has kept me going through all these years, whenever something hard happens and I just like keep turning that pain into purpose, keep turning it into empowerment, and I think this is the whole purpose of my life, so then I can actually help other women do the same.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Beautifully said.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is great, but I'm going to have to check that book out.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I love when someone recommends a book I haven't heard of before and that's very rare, so I am out.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I love when someone recommends a book I haven't heard of before and that's very rare, so I am excited.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I will check that book out, clover.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: It is nighttime for you in Bali.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: It's morning for us in the States, so I thank you for the time.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: You are so inspiring.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: You are so fun to follow on Instagram.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: We will make sure we tag everything in the show notes so that people can reach out to you and if you are a woman who is coming off divorce, thinking about divorce in any of that framework, absolutely reach out to Clover because she can really help you.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: So I thank you.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: You are a beautiful soul.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you for the time.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Enjoy Bali.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, and actually it's okay for me to plug.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I might have a retreat coming up next year in Bali and so if anybody would love that idea, DM me, give me your email, I can put you on the mailing list and I can give you all the information.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: So if that's something that you want to do to have the divorce glow up after divorce, that's an invitation for you.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: That is fantastic, and I will make sure we include that in the show notes as well, because you can plug away.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: A retreat with you would be a really special experience.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: So thank you for that.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I hope you have a beautiful day and I'm excited for us to stay connected.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being a guest.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jean.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us for another episode of the House of Jermar podcast, where wellness starts within.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: We appreciate you being a part of our community and hope you felt inspired and motivated by our guest.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review and share it with friends.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Building our reach on YouTube and Apple podcasts will help us get closer to our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: You can also follow us on Instagram at House of Jermar and sign up to be a part of our monthly inspiration newsletter through our website, houseofjermarcom.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: If you or someone you know would be a good guest on the show, please reach out to us at podcast at houseofjermarcom.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: This has been a House of Jermar production with your host, Jean Collins.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining our house.