Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Starting Rotation Questions, Biggest Surprises & Disappointments, Centerfield Concerns?

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Starting Rotation Questions, Biggest Surprises & Disappointments, Centerfield Concerns? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory. I'm
0:10
Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with an enthused looking Lance Lynn. But we're
0:14
Speaker 1: both excited. You know why because Kyle Gibson is back
0:18
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to talk a little Cardinal baseball
0:20
Speaker 1: with him. Gentlemen, the trade deadline has come and gone.
0:24
Speaker 1: We've kind of picked over the bones of what the
0:28
Speaker 1: Cardinals did, but we have not heard from Kyle Gibson,
0:33
Speaker 1: who I believe probably has some interesting takes. So let's
0:36
Speaker 1: catch up with Kyle. Kyle, tell us a little bit
0:40
Speaker 1: about your thoughts on what the Cardinals accomplished before the deadline.
0:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
0:45
Speaker 3: Sorry, First off, sorry I missed the last couple of shows.
0:49
Speaker 3: We had a busy week last weekend, so Thursday was
0:52
Speaker 3: a no go for me. But hope you guys had
0:55
Speaker 3: a good deadline show. Seemed like everything went off pretty good.
0:57
Speaker 3: So nice work on that. I think this deadline to me,
1:05
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, schoobl got traded. I think it was
1:09
Speaker 3: interesting with a little bit of a backdrop here of
1:12
Speaker 3: not having baseball the next the next season. I wonder
1:17
Speaker 3: how much that kind of impacted the owners a little bit,
1:23
Speaker 3: especially with guys who are on after free agent deals, right,
1:28
Speaker 3: So that was the situation I was in when I
1:30
Speaker 3: got traded. You know, I was halfway through a three
1:33
Speaker 3: year deal that started in Texas. Had we not played
1:37
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two, my contract was four twenty twenty
1:40
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one in twenty twenty two, so with no
1:44
Speaker 3: baseball would have meant that year of control that a
1:46
Speaker 3: team had traded for would have been gone. So I
1:49
Speaker 3: kind of wondered maybe there weren't that many names in
1:51
Speaker 3: that realm that could have been or would have been traded,
1:54
Speaker 3: But I kind of wonder how much of that could
1:57
Speaker 3: have impacted some of this, just because you know, not
2:01
Speaker 3: really knowing. Okay, you know, maybe you're trading a player
2:04
Speaker 3: with the year of control left, but if they think
2:07
Speaker 3: they're not gonna play next year, you know, is it
2:10
Speaker 3: worth trading for that player him getting a year older, uh,
2:14
Speaker 3: and then still having him that next year. Just we
2:18
Speaker 3: never really know how that stuff is impacted, just like
2:21
Speaker 3: you know, we're not going to know how the negotiations
2:22
Speaker 3: are going to impact the first part of free agency,
2:25
Speaker 3: you know here coming up in November. So you know,
2:28
Speaker 3: I thought it was a the teams that got better
2:30
Speaker 3: did a good job. I thought the Cardinals, as much
2:32
Speaker 3: as I didn't want them to trade, you know, quite
2:35
Speaker 3: a few people away, I thought they they tempered that
2:37
Speaker 3: a little bit, you know, just by going to the
2:39
Speaker 3: guys they did. I think the Brewers got better. I
2:42
Speaker 3: know people are saying how much the Cardinals got the
2:44
Speaker 3: better side of that deal, but I think the Brewers
2:47
Speaker 3: got better. I think the Brewers are a team that
2:49
Speaker 3: really have something for the Dodgers. I think the Phillies
2:53
Speaker 3: really have something for the Dodgers. And actually, I think
2:57
Speaker 3: if the Cardinals can keep pitching well, it's really interesting
3:01
Speaker 3: to It's eye opening to me that the Cardinals for
3:04
Speaker 3: the month of July had a very bad offense and
3:08
Speaker 3: still are somehow in this wildcard race, right and they
3:11
Speaker 3: just took two or three from the Yankees in Yankee Stadium.
3:14
Speaker 3: So because of the Cardinals pitching, they are going to
3:17
Speaker 3: stay in this. If they keep pitching well, and if
3:19
Speaker 3: they begin to hit the ball better again, I think
3:23
Speaker 3: it's not gonna be surprising for them to climb back
3:25
Speaker 3: into this Wildcard race. So overall, I thought it was
3:29
Speaker 3: an exciting and entertaining trade deadline. And we'll see what
3:33
Speaker 3: happens from here. You can trade for people, and it
3:35
Speaker 3: looks like the best trade in the world. But somebody
3:38
Speaker 3: asked me a couple of days ago about it. You
3:40
Speaker 3: don't really know how these trades worked out, who got
3:42
Speaker 3: the better side of the deal for the next three,
3:44
Speaker 3: four to five years, So.
3:47
Speaker 2: You know, we'll see how it goes.
3:48
Speaker 3: But overall, I thought it was a good trade deadline
3:51
Speaker 3: for baseball.
3:52
Speaker 1: So the Brewers got a couple of rentals Lance, and
3:55
Speaker 1: gave up prospects. So it's now on the Brewers to
3:59
Speaker 1: do something this year or it could be sort of
4:02
Speaker 1: a waste for him. But I wanted to circle back
4:04
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about what lies ahead for the Cardinals now.
4:07
Speaker 1: But Lance, you said in our last show together that
4:13
Speaker 1: they were the owners of billionaires and everyone's mad because
4:18
Speaker 1: the owner of the Dodgers is better than the other
4:21
Speaker 1: twenty nine billionaires. And I got to tell you that
4:24
Speaker 1: got a lot of traction. People love that. I mean,
4:26
Speaker 1: there was a lot of people behind you one hundred
4:28
Speaker 1: percent with Kyle. He basically said, look, the twenty nine
4:32
Speaker 1: billionaires aren't as good as the billionaire that owns the Dodgers.
4:36
Speaker 1: Are all ticked off because anyone could have gotten schoobled.
4:39
Speaker 1: Lance I'm just curious if you got any feedback on that,
4:43
Speaker 1: because I'm not saying people were four against, but certainly
4:47
Speaker 1: it made them think. And sometimes lance Lynn likes to
4:50
Speaker 1: stir it up a little.
4:52
Speaker 2: I got a lot of good never got a lot
4:54
Speaker 2: of good feedback, to be honest with you, A lot
4:56
Speaker 2: of people would send me stuff and we're laughing and
4:58
Speaker 2: it's like, hey, you know you told the truth. You
5:01
Speaker 2: know it is what it is. Right now, you have
5:03
Speaker 2: a group of people that aren't getting along because one
5:07
Speaker 2: person's figured out how to make the system work the
5:10
Speaker 2: way they wanted to. And let's be honest, no matter
5:13
Speaker 2: what happens in all this, the Dodgers will still have
5:16
Speaker 2: Show Hay and Show Hey. Is what we're seeing as
5:19
Speaker 2: a cheat code. He's a cheat code on your team
5:21
Speaker 2: because you get two players for one roster spot. He's
5:25
Speaker 2: a cheat code when it comes to endorsements because you
5:27
Speaker 2: get you literally own two countries, you own endorsements and
5:33
Speaker 2: things like that. So he is bringing a level of
5:37
Speaker 2: revenue that no other player will bring to any franchise
5:40
Speaker 2: ever because of what he's able to do and who
5:43
Speaker 2: is who he's become so and they knew that when
5:46
Speaker 2: they had a chance to sign him, and every other
5:48
Speaker 2: team had a chance to sign him to do the
5:49
Speaker 2: same thing, and they made sure they got him, to
5:52
Speaker 2: make sure that they owned this revenue stream that no
5:57
Speaker 2: other team could possibly fathom with another player. So I
6:01
Speaker 2: think that's where it's at. Everyone had a chance, they
6:03
Speaker 2: didn't do it. The The Dodgers saw something of value
6:08
Speaker 2: and we're ahead of anybody's thinking on Showvey and they
6:13
Speaker 2: just killed it. There's really no other ways say it,
6:15
Speaker 2: and then everyone's mad about it.
6:17
Speaker 1: Might be the biggest bargain in baseball. Thing is there
6:19
Speaker 1: was a team in Los Angeles, biggest mark in the country,
6:22
Speaker 1: had a chance, you know, to do the same thing,
6:26
Speaker 1: and they didn't actually read the tea leaves and understand
6:30
Speaker 1: the kind of revenue that this guy could produce. So, Kyle,
6:33
Speaker 1: let me ask you this. I agree the Cardinals starting
6:37
Speaker 1: rotation is held up, I think better than most people thought.
6:40
Speaker 1: The offense comes and goes. But if you look at
6:43
Speaker 1: the lineup that they're putting out now because they're resting guys,
6:47
Speaker 1: I don't think they're putting out their bets. But how
6:49
Speaker 1: do you see the rest of the season going for
6:51
Speaker 1: the Cardinals. Will there be some excitement for Cardinal fans
6:55
Speaker 1: or they I understand that there's still what four games,
6:59
Speaker 1: three and a half games out of a wild card whatever,
7:01
Speaker 1: but it's gonna be a haul to get back into
7:04
Speaker 1: contention there. Do you think they they have the makings
7:07
Speaker 1: of a team that can do that.
7:09
Speaker 3: I mean, anytime you have multiple teams ahead of you,
7:14
Speaker 3: you know it's gonna be harder to catch them. Obviously,
7:15
Speaker 3: you know, you got to play really good baseball. But
7:17
Speaker 3: I think we've seen the Cardinals play really good baseball
7:20
Speaker 3: from time to time and in good stretches. So yeah,
7:25
Speaker 3: I think they can climb back into it for sure.
7:28
Speaker 3: Do I think it's gonna be easy?
7:29
Speaker 1: No?
7:29
Speaker 3: Do I think their offense is gonna have to really
7:32
Speaker 3: uh step up?
7:33
Speaker 1: Yes?
7:34
Speaker 3: I do, because I think young pitching, especially pitching that
7:40
Speaker 3: hasn't quite been this deep into a season, there's a
7:44
Speaker 3: chance that maybe it falters a little bit, but it
7:46
Speaker 3: could be kind of what we're seeing with the offense
7:48
Speaker 3: here as well. The minor league schedule is just so
7:51
Speaker 3: different now with scheduled Monday off days, These position players
7:56
Speaker 3: aren't playing six days a week. Outside of that, you know,
8:00
Speaker 3: maybe five. So I think you have some young guys
8:04
Speaker 3: who have been brought up and now they might be
8:05
Speaker 3: a little bit tired. I think you're seeing the guys
8:07
Speaker 3: who have been up there a few years, you know,
8:11
Speaker 3: really kind of staying pretty consistent. Yeah, Burley Walker, Herrera,
8:15
Speaker 3: you know, they have their ups and downs, everybody does,
8:18
Speaker 3: but for the most part, they've been pretty consistent. I
8:21
Speaker 3: think the bottom of the lineup here is somewhat of
8:24
Speaker 3: the key, and maybe that sounds obvious, but I think
8:27
Speaker 3: the more that you know Church Torres, some of these
8:29
Speaker 3: guys that are being plugged at the bottom, Blaze Jordan,
8:33
Speaker 3: you know, for me, the more that those guys get
8:36
Speaker 3: on base and and can kind of weather this August
8:39
Speaker 3: dog days in September, I think the better chance they
8:43
Speaker 3: have because I think the guys at the top are
8:45
Speaker 3: gonna thrive in those situations where a base hit, a
8:49
Speaker 3: ball in play scores a run, versus if they feel
8:52
Speaker 3: like they have to create the offense every single time through,
8:56
Speaker 3: it's gonna wear on them, just like it wears on
8:58
Speaker 3: a starting pitcher when you don't have support, or just
9:02
Speaker 3: like when you're an offense when you're just not swim runs.
9:04
Speaker 3: Everybody feels it. But if you're at the top of
9:06
Speaker 3: the order expected to do a lot, and it's always
9:09
Speaker 3: your job to produce the offense, you're gonna start feeling that.
9:13
Speaker 3: So do I think the Cardinals having in him to
9:16
Speaker 3: jump back in absolutely an eight and two week get
9:21
Speaker 3: them to probably two games out, you know. I mean,
9:23
Speaker 3: if there's there's a lot of baseball still left to
9:25
Speaker 3: be played, and I'm really hoping that that these young
9:29
Speaker 3: guys can can keep rallying, that the young pitchers can
9:32
Speaker 3: keep throwing well the bullpen, can you know, kind of
9:34
Speaker 3: plug the loss here of Jojo and keep going standing
9:38
Speaker 3: still in the ball Well, I think there's guys that
9:39
Speaker 3: can do that here. That's kind of why I have
9:41
Speaker 3: the optimism of the Cardinals being able to climb back
9:44
Speaker 3: into it and and keep playing meaningful baseball, which I
9:47
Speaker 3: think is important for young guys.
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10:49
Speaker 1: So Church in center field, Blaze Jordan at third base,
10:53
Speaker 1: and by the way, I think is a better fielder
10:56
Speaker 1: than I think we expected at third base. He's had
10:59
Speaker 1: some big hits, seems to be a contact guy, can
11:02
Speaker 1: go the other way. I'd like what we're seeing is
11:05
Speaker 1: third base in center field Kyle, and then I'll get
11:08
Speaker 1: to lance. Are those positions that need to be upgraded
11:12
Speaker 1: or do you think that those guys can eventually fit there?
11:19
Speaker 1: I don't know.
11:20
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, uh, I think Church could. I
11:23
Speaker 3: think we've seen flashes of Church being a well above
11:26
Speaker 3: average defender and and on the offensive side, he's had
11:31
Speaker 3: flashes of being you know, an average so above average hitter.
11:34
Speaker 3: So I think it's a little bit too early to tell.
11:38
Speaker 3: And I'm not trying to just skirtch your question either.
11:40
Speaker 2: I think I.
11:41
Speaker 3: Think offensively not even offensive, that's not even fair to say.
11:45
Speaker 3: I think all around this game, you see very few
11:48
Speaker 3: players that come into their own early and often and
11:53
Speaker 3: just stay consistent. You just don't see it. So I
11:57
Speaker 3: think I think we got to make sure we give
11:59
Speaker 3: Church a little bit of of some leeway here to
12:02
Speaker 3: understand there's gonna be struggles. If he can keep his
12:06
Speaker 3: defense at a high level even when he struggles offensively,
12:10
Speaker 3: I think that's a good sign. I think it's been
12:12
Speaker 3: a good sign with Victor Scott, and I think you
12:15
Speaker 3: give these guys some time sometimes it's gonna be off
12:18
Speaker 3: and on, because you're probably not gonna have both of them
12:19
Speaker 3: on the team at the same time, but giving them
12:22
Speaker 3: some chances to figure out at offensively. Just think where
12:26
Speaker 3: the Cardinals would be kicking themselves had they given up
12:30
Speaker 3: on Jordan Walker a year and a half ago. Okay,
12:33
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not saying either of these guys are
12:35
Speaker 3: gonna be Jordan Walker. But if you believe that Nathan
12:39
Speaker 3: Church has the ability to be an average hitter, then
12:42
Speaker 3: you got you gotta maintain that belief until he really
12:45
Speaker 3: gives you a reason to not believe that.
12:49
Speaker 1: I think his defense with Church is really really good, right,
12:54
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he has game changing type defensive skill. Offensively,
12:59
Speaker 1: he got a little better because he started taking walks
13:01
Speaker 1: more and that helps him offensively. But I think the
13:04
Speaker 1: question is when the offense isn't producing and the bottom
13:08
Speaker 1: of the order becomes sort of a death valley for hits,
13:12
Speaker 1: then it's a problem. Lance. I think Blaize Jordan is
13:15
Speaker 1: the answer. I just think he needs a little more time.
13:18
Speaker 1: How do you look at those two guys.
13:21
Speaker 2: I think they're this. You know, if they're in the
13:22
Speaker 2: same boat, they both play well. Church plays better defense,
13:25
Speaker 2: but Blaze plays good enough defense to warrant him being
13:29
Speaker 2: able to play there every day at third. I think
13:31
Speaker 2: you look at Church, who hit like three something in
13:34
Speaker 2: triple A last year if I'm not mistaken, So that's
13:38
Speaker 2: a like let the kid. Let the kid play right
13:41
Speaker 2: and figure it out. And if he's a plus defender
13:43
Speaker 2: in the outfield, so you're not going to know what
13:45
Speaker 2: you have next year if you don't let him play.
13:47
Speaker 2: The situation this year and everyone wants to upgrade, you
13:51
Speaker 2: don't need to upgrade anything until you're ready to win.
13:55
Speaker 2: So we need to see what we have to be
13:57
Speaker 2: able to go from there. So that's why I like
13:59
Speaker 2: the idea of you got to see what Bias has.
14:01
Speaker 2: If Bias can be a twenty five plus home run
14:04
Speaker 2: guy in the major leagues right now, the amount of
14:07
Speaker 2: money that you save on a left fielder, I don't.
14:09
Speaker 2: Can he play center field? Have we seen him? Do
14:12
Speaker 2: we see that?
14:13
Speaker 5: Yeah?
14:14
Speaker 2: So he had? Okay, So that might be your upgrade
14:16
Speaker 2: in center field right there too. And then you can
14:18
Speaker 2: put Church in left field with Sagaci and then that's
14:20
Speaker 2: a platoon situation that is a winning platoon situation because
14:25
Speaker 2: they both hit enough to where that you can put
14:26
Speaker 2: them at the bottom of the lineup to do some
14:28
Speaker 2: things that make them productive, so I think, and then
14:32
Speaker 2: you can, you know, throw Church in center field if
14:35
Speaker 2: Bias is you don't love his defense late in the game.
14:38
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of different ways you can maneuver there.
14:40
Speaker 2: So I think they have the pieces to make their
14:43
Speaker 2: lineup longer right now. I think a lot of it
14:46
Speaker 2: has to do with letting the guys play and then
14:48
Speaker 2: bringing up the pieces that you actually see to be
14:51
Speaker 2: part of a winning ball club in the future. I
14:54
Speaker 2: love for Me and I love Torres. I love a
14:57
Speaker 2: couple of these bench guys that are rotating right now,
15:00
Speaker 2: but I like the upsides of Biaz Segacy over them.
15:05
Speaker 2: So those guys should be in the big league so
15:07
Speaker 2: we can see what they have at the big league level.
15:08
Speaker 2: I don't need them hitting two seventy five to three
15:11
Speaker 2: hundred with thirty home runs in Triple A because that's
15:14
Speaker 2: not going to let me see what they have for
15:16
Speaker 2: my future. So it's time to see what you need
15:19
Speaker 2: to add around Jordan Walker. And if Bias becomes another
15:23
Speaker 2: thirty home run pre ARB guy, now you can spend
15:27
Speaker 2: a little bit more on an a starting pitcher than
15:30
Speaker 2: you want it to because you have a middle order
15:33
Speaker 2: bat that's pretty much free for the next couple of
15:36
Speaker 2: years and baseball terms for thirty home runs. So those
15:39
Speaker 2: are my ideas to make sure we're ready to spend
15:42
Speaker 2: when it's time to spend, to make this team a
15:44
Speaker 2: playoff team, and a lot of that has to go
15:46
Speaker 2: around elite starting pitching the elite back into the bullpen.
15:50
Speaker 2: So's there's where I'm at.
15:52
Speaker 1: Good idea.
15:53
Speaker 2: I think we've seen it.
15:54
Speaker 3: We've seen the ideas work where you put more of
15:57
Speaker 3: a bat in center field. I'm not saying Bias doesn't
15:59
Speaker 3: have a good defense, but we've seen we've seen teams
16:02
Speaker 3: do the Hey, we're gonna sacrifice a little bit of
16:06
Speaker 3: centerfield defense to add a bat, you know. I think
16:08
Speaker 3: that's probably where the Yankees were when they moved Judge
16:11
Speaker 3: to center field. There's probably a lot of reasons they
16:14
Speaker 3: did it, but uh, I mean I think they're I
16:17
Speaker 3: think we've seen that play out, and let's face it,
16:20
Speaker 3: I think it makes a huge offensive difference when your
16:25
Speaker 3: centerfielder has that type of power numbers and that type
16:28
Speaker 3: of bat. Not that center fielder is always a defensive position.
16:32
Speaker 3: It's not, but when you get both out of it,
16:36
Speaker 3: it makes a big deal, kind of like having a
16:38
Speaker 3: really above average hitting catcher. It makes a big deal.
16:41
Speaker 3: So and if you if late in the game you say, hey,
16:46
Speaker 3: you know we are going to bring in Church or
16:47
Speaker 3: Victor Scott. We're gonna slide by as to the left.
16:49
Speaker 3: However you want to play it. You know, I think
16:52
Speaker 3: that's a that's a good way to do it.
16:55
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16:58
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17:33
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about the starting rotation as
17:36
Speaker 1: it sits now because we still have a lot of
17:40
Speaker 1: baseball yet to be played, and right now Dobbins is
17:42
Speaker 1: in the rotation. Quinn Matthews came up and showed very
17:46
Speaker 1: well in my opinion, Scott, nasty stuff. How would you
17:49
Speaker 1: like to see the rotation kind of roll out the
17:53
Speaker 1: rest of the way. Well, we see both those guys
17:56
Speaker 1: and Lance. I'll start with you because Kyle just finished
17:58
Speaker 1: up his answer. I think the Cardinals Alie normal has
18:02
Speaker 1: done a really good job of spacing guys out with starts.
18:06
Speaker 1: So while they're for young guys, the innings are piling up,
18:09
Speaker 1: it's not as bad as it could have been. But
18:10
Speaker 1: how do you see the rotation kind of unfolding the
18:13
Speaker 1: rest of the way.
18:16
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's going to unfold. I don't know,
18:18
Speaker 2: but how it should. If you're trying to monitor innings
18:21
Speaker 2: and workload for these guys that haven't ever gone a
18:24
Speaker 2: full season in the major leagues or gone over one
18:27
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty innings, you got to go six man rotation.
18:32
Speaker 2: Anytime that a guy's gonna throw a normal rest at
18:34
Speaker 2: six man. And then if there are extra days and
18:37
Speaker 2: you don't want to give a guy seven days, do
18:40
Speaker 2: a piggyback day where you have two guys going on
18:42
Speaker 2: the same day. One guy goes five innings and one
18:44
Speaker 2: guy goes four. Give your bullpen a day off. I
18:47
Speaker 2: think that's a way for everyone to get their work
18:49
Speaker 2: in but also not have to overextend themselves as the
18:53
Speaker 2: year goes on. And so I think it's a six
18:57
Speaker 2: man rotation here on out, and it will give the
18:59
Speaker 2: guys breather that need to breather, but also give the
19:02
Speaker 2: starts that are needed for Dobbins and Matthews to really
19:07
Speaker 2: see what they have. You really need to know all
19:10
Speaker 2: right going into next year, I have all of these
19:13
Speaker 2: guys are under control. Next year, I have five guys,
19:17
Speaker 2: six guys that I that I can that I believe
19:21
Speaker 2: can give me twenty plus starts, right, and then it's
19:24
Speaker 2: okay if we're gonna make a if we think we're
19:27
Speaker 2: gonna make a splash or something like that. I have
19:30
Speaker 2: That means I have the depth of these guys. And
19:32
Speaker 2: now I have seven eight starters for a quality win,
19:37
Speaker 2: make a playoff push team with I can add you
19:40
Speaker 2: know whatever I need to a top of a rotation
19:42
Speaker 2: because I have these six that I trust for twenty
19:45
Speaker 2: plus starts. So I think I think Matthews has got
19:48
Speaker 2: to make if you gotta give me ten to twelve
19:51
Speaker 2: starts down the stretch here, I mean it's probably gonna
19:53
Speaker 2: be more like ten. But I think if everybody gets
19:56
Speaker 2: ten to twelve starts to finish out the year, you're
19:58
Speaker 2: in a good spot.
20:00
Speaker 1: I kind of agree with that. How do you see it,
20:02
Speaker 1: kav Well.
20:04
Speaker 3: I just was kind of looking up a few things,
20:06
Speaker 3: and I didn't realize that Matthew's got optioned down on
20:08
Speaker 3: the fourth, So I'm not exactly sure. You know, they
20:11
Speaker 3: brought up Caleb Ferguson. I'm not exactly sure what the
20:14
Speaker 3: plan is there, but I agree. I think, uh, I
20:17
Speaker 3: think a six man rotation is going to be necessary
20:21
Speaker 3: for some of these guys. You know, you got mc
20:24
Speaker 3: greevy who's never done the full season. You know, Polante
20:29
Speaker 3: and Labrator will be fine. Leahy is in absolutely uncharted territory.
20:34
Speaker 3: So I mean, I but these guys have been so good.
20:37
Speaker 3: That's the other thing. You just don't want to to
20:41
Speaker 3: run him and run him and run him. And then
20:42
Speaker 3: you get to the point in the middle of September,
20:44
Speaker 3: early September whe they're out of gas and now they're
20:47
Speaker 3: fighting for their life to get through five innings, and
20:50
Speaker 3: and everything looks a whole lot. You know, Muddier going
20:54
Speaker 3: into next year, I just I think you have a
20:57
Speaker 3: few arms here who have really proved their worth and
21:01
Speaker 3: proved what they are. And I think Libby, if he
21:03
Speaker 3: throws the ball here down the stretch really well, I
21:07
Speaker 3: don't think it's out of the realm that he's gonna
21:08
Speaker 3: end up with a round of four ERA and people
21:10
Speaker 3: are going like, man, wow, Libby really picked it up
21:12
Speaker 3: in the last two months and he looks really good.
21:15
Speaker 3: That's just how being a pitcher can go. So yeah,
21:18
Speaker 3: I think you get Dobbins, you get Matthew some starts,
21:21
Speaker 3: you have six guys in a rotation, and I think
21:25
Speaker 3: if those are the guys with the stuff that you
21:27
Speaker 3: want to have throwing innings, I think that is also
21:30
Speaker 3: the recipe to kind of get back in this. I
21:34
Speaker 3: you're not gonna hear me advocate for six minut rotation
21:37
Speaker 3: very often, because when I was in the thick of it,
21:39
Speaker 3: I wanted to be throwing every five or six days,
21:41
Speaker 3: you know, stay on that routine. But we're now in
21:44
Speaker 3: a in a state of the game where these guys
21:46
Speaker 3: are used to throwing a lot of the time, once
21:48
Speaker 3: a week, sometimes twice. If they matched up on Tuesday
21:52
Speaker 3: Sunday in a series so you're not gonna throw these
21:55
Speaker 3: guys off off of a routine by throwing them every
21:58
Speaker 3: six days. So I think that's I think that's definitely
22:02
Speaker 3: something to look out here to keep these guys frashing
22:04
Speaker 3: and to make sure that you're really taking care of
22:08
Speaker 3: these young arms that have really done a great job
22:10
Speaker 3: of paying you to this point.
22:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to say too, Yeah, it's they've they've
22:16
Speaker 2: done a they've done a good job. You're going to
22:17
Speaker 2: have to protect them. And we've always talked about this.
22:20
Speaker 2: If you want to develop starting pitchers, you can't shut
22:22
Speaker 2: them down at the end of the year. If they're thinking, hey,
22:25
Speaker 2: I'm gonna let these guys hit their innings limit and
22:27
Speaker 2: then shut them down, then they're never gonna have never
22:29
Speaker 2: figure out how to get through a full season. So
22:32
Speaker 2: I think for everyone's case here, even everyone's like, oh, Matthews,
22:36
Speaker 2: Matthews has thrown one hundred innings already in in Triple A,
22:41
Speaker 2: and these guys have thrown some good innings in Triple
22:43
Speaker 2: A already. So if you put that all together for
22:45
Speaker 2: six man rotation and everyone is healthy through the last
22:49
Speaker 2: game of the regular season, everyone has gotten through it,
22:52
Speaker 2: it's hard to get through September, especially if they if
22:55
Speaker 2: you've never had to do it, and then they keep
22:57
Speaker 2: shutting you down. So lay every he's got if you
23:00
Speaker 2: can get him active through the end of the year,
23:02
Speaker 2: and maybe we just back off our workload a little
23:05
Speaker 2: bit by going six man and or going five innings
23:07
Speaker 2: and that's it, and then rotating some of these younger
23:10
Speaker 2: bullpen arms in to get their work into being able
23:13
Speaker 2: to throw two innings at a time and stuff like that.
23:15
Speaker 2: To see what you have. Not only does it save everybody,
23:18
Speaker 2: but also teaches them how to finish the year without
23:21
Speaker 2: being shut down, and they have to get through that.
23:23
Speaker 2: So I think all in all, six man is a
23:25
Speaker 2: way to make sure everyone finishes the year not only
23:28
Speaker 2: a healthier but they actually finished in the year pitching
23:31
Speaker 2: instead of being shut down because they hit limits.
23:33
Speaker 1: All right, So you guys always give me grief because
23:36
Speaker 1: I asked the questions and I never put myself on
23:39
Speaker 1: the line. I just asked you guys to answer the
23:43
Speaker 1: question and sit back and nod, right, Okay, So I
23:46
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you biggest surprise from the Cardinals this
23:50
Speaker 1: season and biggest disappointment. I'm going to answer first. Biggest surprise,
23:55
Speaker 1: and I'm not putting Walker on the table because I
23:59
Speaker 1: don't think it was out of the ordinary. Did expect
24:01
Speaker 1: him to bounce back? He was, He's been great, But
24:04
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Jose for mean. Here's a guy
24:07
Speaker 1: that looked like, yeah, he was just a guy that
24:10
Speaker 1: was on your roster here and there, and now he
24:12
Speaker 1: plays every single position. He's had some big hits. I
24:16
Speaker 1: know he's in two thirty something, but he's had a
24:18
Speaker 1: ton of big hits for him and I didn't see
24:21
Speaker 1: that coming. This was the guy they were like, yeah,
24:23
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be in the infield's not great defense. The
24:26
Speaker 1: next thing you know, he's playing short stuff's you know,
24:29
Speaker 1: he's not really an outfielder. Put him out there. Next
24:31
Speaker 1: thing you know, he's in center field. He's been a
24:33
Speaker 1: vital piece for him. The guy I'm disappointed in, and
24:36
Speaker 1: I still believe it'll come around because he's young. But
24:39
Speaker 1: I thought by now Jimmy Crooks, who's got a really
24:43
Speaker 1: good arm and does a lot of other things that
24:45
Speaker 1: you like, what hit bet and it just hasn't clicked
24:48
Speaker 1: for him yet. So I'm disappointed in that. Still am
24:51
Speaker 1: a believer in Jimmy Crooks, but those are my two.
24:54
Speaker 1: So Kyle, biggest surprise, biggest disappointment, as I've already given
25:00
Speaker 1: my answers.
25:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for putt yourself on the line there, jim
25:04
Speaker 3: and answering. Maybe we'll end the show or another time
25:07
Speaker 3: we'll give you the biggest surprise and biggest disappointment of
25:10
Speaker 3: the Saint Louis media, so you can really kind of
25:11
Speaker 3: attack your peers, which you make us do most of
25:13
Speaker 3: the time. Anyways, I think I want to call this
25:21
Speaker 3: team a surprise, but I feel like if anybody's been
25:23
Speaker 3: listening or watching this show, I think all three of
25:27
Speaker 3: us had high expectations or at least the belief that
25:33
Speaker 3: this team could be a playoff team. I believed it,
25:37
Speaker 3: and I thought that they had a chance to really
25:39
Speaker 3: surprise some people, which they have. So I want to
25:41
Speaker 3: stay away from that being a surprise, because I I
25:43
Speaker 3: think that was kind of what I was hoping would happen.
25:47
Speaker 3: I would say the starting rotation being this consistent and
25:55
Speaker 3: exceeding expectations is probably, you know, maybe the brightest spot
25:58
Speaker 3: if we're not Kenda Walker and and the biggest surprise,
26:02
Speaker 3: and and I think gets the biggest hat tip from me.
26:07
Speaker 3: Biggest disappointment, I don't think it's necessarily a player, because
26:12
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think that's really fair. You know, you
26:15
Speaker 3: got young guys who are just coming up and trying
26:17
Speaker 3: to to really learn who they are. I think maybe
26:19
Speaker 3: the biggest disappointment so far would probably be that the
26:24
Speaker 3: month of July, the entire offense kind of went cold.
26:29
Speaker 3: And I, once again not pending on any person, I
26:32
Speaker 3: just think it's disappointing because it's part of the reason
26:35
Speaker 3: why they fell out of the playoff race and part
26:38
Speaker 3: of the reason why they ended up making some of
26:40
Speaker 3: the moves. Now, maybe they would have made these moves regardless,
26:44
Speaker 3: but it feels like it added to it and only
26:47
Speaker 3: disappointing from a fans perspective, not analyzing players. From a
26:52
Speaker 3: fans perspective, it's disappointing because you know they were square
26:55
Speaker 3: in the playoff race, and you know now they've got
26:57
Speaker 3: to do some work to get back into it.
27:00
Speaker 1: All right. Not for the record, lance, if I had
27:03
Speaker 1: picked a month as my biggest disappointment, you would bury me.
27:07
Speaker 2: You would bury one hundred. I'm first of all, yeah,
27:11
Speaker 2: I get it. You both need to be buried you're
27:13
Speaker 2: you're you're going after Jimmy like he's You're going after Jimmy,
27:17
Speaker 2: like he's had two and a half years of every
27:19
Speaker 2: day at bats in the big leagues and we're surprised
27:21
Speaker 2: he's not hitting this year. You did, you did? You
27:25
Speaker 2: said he's the biggest disappointment. That's a dick move, jim
27:27
Speaker 2: There's no like the kid's coming up and he's you know,
27:31
Speaker 2: he didn't even start the year in the big leagues.
27:32
Speaker 2: He's a disappointment guy. Guys in the big leagues and
27:34
Speaker 2: didn't even start to hear in it. That's not disappointment. Sorry,
27:37
Speaker 2: I haven't a disappointment, and.
27:40
Speaker 1: It's still better than naming a month.
27:42
Speaker 2: Here's a disappointment. Here's a disappointment. We I love Nolan
27:48
Speaker 2: Gorman to death, love the kid, and I still think
27:50
Speaker 2: he's got the ability. But he's been a disappointment, right
27:53
Speaker 2: and he's in Triple A, hitting you know, one hundred
27:56
Speaker 2: with ten more months. It's like, man, if we can
27:59
Speaker 2: just figure out how to hit two fifty. I know
28:02
Speaker 2: it's a lot a lot easier said than done, but
28:04
Speaker 2: I mean, hecking hit two forty and he's gonna get
28:06
Speaker 2: hit twenty five plus four months. So he's probably, unfortunately
28:11
Speaker 2: the biggest disappointment, And it hurts me saying that because
28:13
Speaker 2: he's one of my favorites. I love him and I
28:15
Speaker 2: still think that. I still think he's a thirty home
28:18
Speaker 2: run major league player when he figures it out. And
28:21
Speaker 2: he's only twenty four years old, so there is time.
28:23
Speaker 2: It's just figuring out getting that opportunity and sticking with it.
28:26
Speaker 2: And you and you dropped that, Oh, we can't say
28:29
Speaker 2: Walker is surprise. At the beginning of the year, we
28:31
Speaker 2: were talking about, Hey, it's a make or break year.
28:34
Speaker 2: He's going to be he might be done in the organization,
28:38
Speaker 2: and if he can't figure it out, and then is
28:40
Speaker 2: it not a surprise when he hits he's an All
28:44
Speaker 2: Star home run Derby Champ and is an All Star
28:46
Speaker 2: and all that when he was on his way out
28:48
Speaker 2: of town to start the year, if he didn't have
28:50
Speaker 2: a good couple of months or didn't figure it out,
28:52
Speaker 2: So you can't take him off the table because he's big.
28:56
Speaker 2: He's the biggest surprise of all time. At no point
28:59
Speaker 2: would you say all Star home run Derby Champ. Everyone
29:02
Speaker 2: been like, you're crazy, We can't even we can't even
29:05
Speaker 2: slot him in the everyday lineup to start the year
29:06
Speaker 2: because we can't trust him, like that was the truth.
29:09
Speaker 2: So that makes him the biggest surprise. But since we're
29:11
Speaker 2: staying away from him, I'm gonna go with Riley O'Brien
29:16
Speaker 2: because I love his stuff. Didn't know if he was
29:20
Speaker 2: going to be able to take the back end of
29:21
Speaker 2: the bullpen closer role and actually just dominate with it.
29:25
Speaker 2: So for me, he's the number one like surprise surprise,
29:30
Speaker 2: since you won't let us do the home run Derby
29:32
Speaker 2: champion All Star that has not that hasn't even been
29:36
Speaker 2: in the big leagues for two straight years, started the season,
29:38
Speaker 2: end of the season. But you're right, I'm done. Oh
29:42
Speaker 2: I want to make it out here.
29:43
Speaker 3: I want I want to make a point, all right.
29:45
Speaker 3: I know we're probably pushing on time. This is also
29:48
Speaker 3: why Walker, to me should count. There was a time
29:51
Speaker 3: in spring training, not long from the end of spring
29:53
Speaker 3: training that they gave Walker multiple days off to let
29:58
Speaker 3: some of these adjustments not be in the game. He
30:02
Speaker 3: had some struggles going on. They took some pressure off
30:05
Speaker 3: of him out of spring training games. If you go
30:08
Speaker 3: back and look at media writing and fans talking about
30:13
Speaker 3: halfway through spring training and towards the end of spring training,
30:15
Speaker 3: if Jordan Walker should even be on the team. I
30:18
Speaker 3: think there was more people saying he shouldn't be on
30:20
Speaker 3: the team than people saying he should. And that's why
30:23
Speaker 3: I think he counts as one of the big surprises.
30:26
Speaker 3: You got a guy who overhauled some things and really
30:29
Speaker 3: made adjustments, and it was not working out well enough
30:32
Speaker 3: that he took games off in spring training. So I
30:35
Speaker 3: think hats off to Jordan Walker. And I'm not gonna
30:39
Speaker 3: say shame on you because I picked a month, So
30:41
Speaker 3: that's fair.
30:43
Speaker 1: Okay. I just figured we've talked about this enough and
30:46
Speaker 1: I was trying to take that off the table, but
30:48
Speaker 1: I worded it wrong, so I hate August in fairness
30:52
Speaker 1: and fairness in fairness. I was wrong, and Kyle did
30:59
Speaker 1: name a month at his biggest disappointment, and I right
31:03
Speaker 1: now have to go put an ice pack on my
31:05
Speaker 1: forehead because lamceln beat the crap up.
31:08
Speaker 2: Not he picked, he picked a month and a whole rotation,
31:12
Speaker 2: so he couldn't even go good or bad with a
31:14
Speaker 2: single player.
31:16
Speaker 3: I'm staying away from picking the player because although I
31:19
Speaker 3: don't have to interview Jimmy Crooks when he has a
31:21
Speaker 3: big hit here in a week and a half, and
31:23
Speaker 3: Jimmy Crook saw Jim Hayes lame name.
31:27
Speaker 5: I can't wait.
31:28
Speaker 1: I can't wait, Jim I said he's young to get it.
31:33
Speaker 3: I don't know, Jim. I was just battling being the
31:36
Speaker 3: biggest disappointment of the year, and I just thought I
31:38
Speaker 3: really needed to.
31:38
Speaker 2: Come through take my disappointments. Shove it up your ass,
31:42
Speaker 2: Jim All right, come.
31:44
Speaker 1: On, Jimmy, get hot for first thing, go talk to
31:47
Speaker 1: Jimmy Crooks tomorrow and tell them what the nonsense that
31:51
Speaker 1: they're spewing. Is that nonsense? That's gonna do it for
31:54
Speaker 1: listen hopefully the next edition. What's up, h