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Why Your Change Plan Fails—and How to Fix It · Business Roundtable

0:31
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business Roundtable Podcast. I have another
0:34
Speaker 1: new guest this week. I'm super excited to have Serena
0:37
Speaker 1: Diamond on with me. I am your host, David Carr
0:41
Speaker 1: of Steward Your Business. We helped bring teams together to
0:45
Speaker 1: accomplish great things, and that's where I actually love having
0:47
Speaker 1: Serena on here, who has just got a wealth of
0:50
Speaker 1: experience background. She and I also met in Success Champions Network.
0:54
Speaker 1: I talked about that in our last podcast, Serena, because
0:57
Speaker 1: we have so many great people coming out of that
0:58
Speaker 1: networking group. Why I have Serena on here is because
1:02
Speaker 1: Serena and you do so much and we're going to
1:04
Speaker 1: talk about how we collaborate together and and but I
1:08
Speaker 1: think it's so important what you do in the in
1:10
Speaker 1: the in the change journey, the change management that the
1:13
Speaker 1: businesses are going through. You've been through and work with
1:16
Speaker 1: so many different companies. But when you guys hear Serena's background,
1:19
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, WHOA. We're so grateful to have
1:22
Speaker 1: you here. Welcome to the Business Roundtable Podcast.
1:26
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, David. I really
1:28
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
1:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so, Serena. When I met you and I
1:34
Speaker 1: was like we first started talking, I was like, Wow,
1:38
Speaker 1: you do a service and I'm gonna you talk about
1:41
Speaker 1: your background in diamond Solutions and where you came from.
1:44
Speaker 1: But in my journey working with teams and organizations, what
1:49
Speaker 1: I find is a lot of businesses don't always think
1:51
Speaker 1: through the evolution of the business and that some of
1:54
Speaker 1: the challenges and the things that come through. And we
1:55
Speaker 1: were talking before we started this recording, and so I
1:58
Speaker 1: would love to have you just a little bit about
2:00
Speaker 1: your background before you started diamond Solutions and why you
2:03
Speaker 1: started diamond Solutions and and kind of you know what
2:06
Speaker 1: you're doing now. So I'll let you just get give
2:09
Speaker 1: you a little bit time here just to unpack that.
2:11
Speaker 2: Oh fantastic, Well, thanks so much. So I started my career,
2:16
Speaker 2: my corporate career at Accenture, and you know, learned so
2:19
Speaker 2: much as most young people do straight out of college.
2:24
Speaker 2: And I moved on to from from Accenture after really
2:30
Speaker 2: a little over seven years there to Pepsi and did
2:33
Speaker 2: a lot of systems development at Pepsicola and then moved
2:38
Speaker 2: into Hyperion, which is the precursor Oracle purchased Hyperion, and
2:42
Speaker 2: I was really responsible for consulting North America there, so
2:47
Speaker 2: I started flip flop back and forth between consulting, then
2:50
Speaker 2: being in the business doing IT development and leading IT
2:54
Speaker 2: development teams, and then consulting again. Did a little dot
2:58
Speaker 2: com stint like most so many of us did, which
3:02
Speaker 2: is very fun and exactly like they had it in
3:04
Speaker 2: all the magazines. But ultimately that business went out, went out,
3:09
Speaker 2: and then I was actually at Melin Investor Services for
3:11
Speaker 2: a while leading a group there in employee ownership, and
3:16
Speaker 2: left that as a result of a combination of things,
3:20
Speaker 2: not the least of which we're nine to eleven in Enron,
3:23
Speaker 2: combining to take out that business unit of employee ownership
3:27
Speaker 2: or the value behind that, and then really I started
3:29
Speaker 2: my second chapter. I spent about eighteen years at IBM
3:34
Speaker 2: focused exclusively on business process technology adoptions transformation before it
3:40
Speaker 2: was really called transformation. And one of the things that
3:43
Speaker 2: I really focused on during that career journey was how
3:48
Speaker 2: often those transformations are focused on the process, or focused
3:53
Speaker 2: on the metrics, or focused on the technology, and how
3:58
Speaker 2: rarely it is about out the ways, the new ways
4:01
Speaker 2: of working, the new behaviors that people are going to
4:04
Speaker 2: have to take on. And so through that time, I
4:07
Speaker 2: really focused a lot on the organization before it was
4:11
Speaker 2: called organizational change management. I was really focused on the
4:14
Speaker 2: people side of that triangle. Loved that very much. And
4:18
Speaker 2: then when IBM and Kendrell's spun off, I often refer
4:21
Speaker 2: to that decision to choose door number three, and I
4:26
Speaker 2: didn't go to either. I actually went off to another
4:30
Speaker 2: company for about six months and then launched my own
4:33
Speaker 2: business of focusing exclusively on organizational change. I have had
4:39
Speaker 2: a phenomenal three years of I didn't get the memo
4:43
Speaker 2: that this was supposed to be something where you did
4:45
Speaker 2: at part time. I launched right in and had multiple
4:48
Speaker 2: clients right from the beginning, and I have loved every
4:54
Speaker 2: unique experience that has been there because the one thing
4:57
Speaker 2: that is common no matter what change an organization is
5:02
Speaker 2: going through, whether they've acquired a company. I've had clients
5:05
Speaker 2: that have acquired a company and the acquire and hold
5:08
Speaker 2: and then surprised that they didn't get whatever efficiencies they
5:11
Speaker 2: wanted or increased market share. I've had the opportunities where
5:16
Speaker 2: things haven't gone as well. From a strategic perspective, the
5:19
Speaker 2: leadership team sees the strategic vision clearly and everybody seems
5:24
Speaker 2: like they're lagging all kinds of change challenges. At the
5:33
Speaker 2: real core of those, they are always about how do
5:35
Speaker 2: you bring people along, how do you help the organization
5:39
Speaker 2: to adopt those So that's what I focused my exclusive
5:43
Speaker 2: energies around is how the organizational change happens with the
5:47
Speaker 2: organizational change management.
5:50
Speaker 1: And I love it. I know I love it. I mean,
5:53
Speaker 1: this is why I think you and I connected. You know,
5:56
Speaker 1: the folks that listen have to listen to the podcast.
5:58
Speaker 1: You know I'm on which on that people side, and
6:01
Speaker 1: I think you're his. That's why I want you to
6:04
Speaker 1: share a little bit about your background and working with
6:06
Speaker 1: IBM and PEPSI and accenture, is that you've been in
6:09
Speaker 1: these large organizations and you see in the challenges that
6:12
Speaker 1: come with changes and adapting or you know, and if
6:17
Speaker 1: you don't adapt, what does what does that look like?
6:19
Speaker 1: Because there are companies that try to choose I don't you know,
6:22
Speaker 1: I'm resisting the change that really does need to happen,
6:25
Speaker 1: and I see like you coming in. I mean, it's
6:28
Speaker 1: kind of like the oil if you will break that
6:30
Speaker 1: up of the bit where that resistance or even if
6:33
Speaker 1: if you say, like I want to get there. I
6:35
Speaker 1: don't know how to get there? What what would what
6:38
Speaker 1: would that look like? And I think a lot of
6:41
Speaker 1: people get stuck just in the business, like you said,
6:43
Speaker 1: processes and the systems, and then they don't they're not
6:46
Speaker 1: being proactive and anticipating the change that will come, right, Yeah,
6:55
Speaker 1: the things that they're necessary, like you mentioned, you.
6:57
Speaker 2: Know, it's funny that sorry ish there's a vision for
7:14
Speaker 2: the for the change, or there's a vision that it's planned,
7:17
Speaker 2: and sometimes there's a really good project plan, but oftentimes
7:22
Speaker 2: things don't go smoothly and there's a day job, right
7:25
Speaker 2: in addition to trying to do the change, the leadership team,
7:28
Speaker 2: the operations whoever the team responsible for the changer, they
7:32
Speaker 2: also have business metrics that they're trying to achieve their outcomes.
7:36
Speaker 2: So sometimes the change is really hard to do simultaneously.
7:40
Speaker 2: And so one of the things that I often get
7:42
Speaker 2: called is is usually when I joke, sometimes when it's
7:45
Speaker 2: you know, it's already gone poorly, right, it's you've already
7:48
Speaker 2: missed some objectives that Sometimes it's the pe firm isn't happy,
7:53
Speaker 2: or the board isn't happy, or the and sometimes it's
7:56
Speaker 2: just we missed our quarterly expectation and then now, what
8:01
Speaker 2: do we do right? How is it that we can
8:03
Speaker 2: double down on the efficiency play for the quarter? You
8:05
Speaker 2: know those?
8:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
8:09
Speaker 2: The teams need to be really truly empowered to get
8:13
Speaker 2: on that change journey when the leadership team, and lots
8:16
Speaker 2: of times that really does come at the need for
8:20
Speaker 2: the leadership to adopt different ways of leading, different ways
8:24
Speaker 2: of communicating. I often say that it's a very it's
8:27
Speaker 2: a very simple three steps. It's just really hard to do.
8:30
Speaker 2: Build belief in the why, right, it's create them, enable
8:34
Speaker 2: the behaviors that you're expecting them to change, and then
8:37
Speaker 2: sustain that change. Now, those are very three very simple
8:42
Speaker 2: here's the steps. Here's what it is. It's not rocket science.
8:45
Speaker 2: It's just hard to do. If you haven't been doing
8:48
Speaker 2: it pretty much every day for thirty years, it's really
8:51
Speaker 2: hard to start doing it now. And that's one of
8:54
Speaker 2: the reasons why I really I love working with leaders
8:56
Speaker 2: who really want the change to work. They just don't
8:59
Speaker 2: know how to do it. So that's that's really where
9:02
Speaker 2: I love those kind of partnerships.
9:05
Speaker 1: No, and that's why we have the Business round Table
9:07
Speaker 1: podcast arena, is that we want these leaders as they
9:11
Speaker 1: listen to the podcast, or like, oh man, I'm not alone.
9:14
Speaker 1: There's somebody else that could come alongside me and help
9:17
Speaker 1: me in this. And that's what I love. Like you said,
9:20
Speaker 1: I'm in a similar journey about three years going on
9:22
Speaker 1: that with Steward your business. Like I realized I could
9:25
Speaker 1: go and work for a company, but I could help more,
9:28
Speaker 1: and like you're doing, Serena, reach more companies, help that
9:32
Speaker 1: that with your services, and you're like, hey, I can
9:34
Speaker 1: come in as a consultant and guiding your team, helping them.
9:39
Speaker 1: You don't have to figure out all on your own,
9:41
Speaker 1: you know, right, I mean, I think that's the smartest
9:43
Speaker 1: leaders realize that they need help.
9:46
Speaker 2: I'm outside because if for no other reason, then most
9:51
Speaker 2: of the time leaders will will reach out to their
9:54
Speaker 2: own industry or somewhere in their own network, but they
9:58
Speaker 2: rarely have the breath of of experiences that somebody from
10:03
Speaker 2: outside can do. And I know there's lots sometimes there's
10:06
Speaker 2: hesitation to bring in somebody from the outside because will
10:08
Speaker 2: they will they get us, will they understand the culture?
10:11
Speaker 2: There needs to be some conversations before you bring in
10:14
Speaker 2: anybody else. But if you've got somebody that's been in
10:18
Speaker 2: multiple environments, the ability to capture those lessons, those things
10:23
Speaker 2: that you learn from having been I mean, in the
10:26
Speaker 2: three years since I've been in a business. In business,
10:28
Speaker 2: I have been in the entertainment equipment rental business, huge industry.
10:33
Speaker 2: I did not even know what it was, but some
10:35
Speaker 2: of the kinds of environments that those people serve huge.
10:40
Speaker 2: I've been in the automotive industry. I've been in the
10:42
Speaker 2: healthcare industry twice. I've been in the property development business.
10:48
Speaker 2: So all of these and what's really interesting, so I think,
10:51
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think I told you this. Last
10:53
Speaker 2: year I had my two largest client engagements. One was
10:57
Speaker 2: a billion dollar professional service is in the healthcare industry,
11:02
Speaker 2: so doctors, nurses, think of those folks. And then my
11:05
Speaker 2: other significant client was in the automotive industry, also professional
11:09
Speaker 2: services focused on professionals, training and those kinds of things.
11:15
Speaker 2: And they were approaching their first one hundred million, completely
11:19
Speaker 2: different scales of people of priorities now, interestingly, and they
11:24
Speaker 2: had different problems that they were asking me to come
11:27
Speaker 2: in and look to help with. What was really interesting
11:30
Speaker 2: was the challenges around sustaining the change came down to
11:35
Speaker 2: the same kinds of core fundamentals in both leadership teams.
11:40
Speaker 2: And I didn't intend for it to be that way.
11:42
Speaker 2: It's not, you know, it's not. Then if all you
11:44
Speaker 2: have is a hammer, everything is the nail. But it was
11:46
Speaker 2: so striking to me the difference in the two leadership challenges,
11:50
Speaker 2: the manifest that needed to happen. Now, funny thing when
11:55
Speaker 2: it was all done and said, the billion dollar company
11:59
Speaker 2: took the all the advice, they got what they needed,
12:01
Speaker 2: They checked the box, they moved on. The one hundred
12:04
Speaker 2: million dollar company is continuing to say, how can we
12:07
Speaker 2: continue to continually improve ourselves as leaders challenge ourselves. And
12:12
Speaker 2: that's why I'm convinced that they're going to grow past,
12:14
Speaker 2: long past some of those kinds of activities.
12:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, why why And you know if they I
12:21
Speaker 1: think to your point you were saying earlier, sometimes they
12:23
Speaker 1: come to you there's already problem. But if you can
12:26
Speaker 1: get ahead of it in the business life cycle, all
12:29
Speaker 1: much better. It'll cost you much less. Like you said,
12:32
Speaker 1: if you're doing this intentionally, But unfortunately business owners don't
12:35
Speaker 1: always do it. Just like us, like in our health, right,
12:37
Speaker 1: sometimes we neglect our health until it becomes an issue.
12:40
Speaker 1: They're like now I got to go to the doctor.
12:41
Speaker 1: Now I gotta go hurt you. But if we have've
12:43
Speaker 1: just done these things preventively proactively, I'd be in a
12:46
Speaker 1: much better place. You know. So what you're doing of
12:50
Speaker 1: like so important what you said that those steps getting clear,
12:55
Speaker 1: getting clear on the way, because I found sometimes there
12:57
Speaker 1: is not clear, and it's really hard to get the
13:00
Speaker 1: whole organization to fall along if you're not clear of
13:02
Speaker 1: communicating this. Or we said at one time, was that
13:04
Speaker 1: at our annual meeting? Did everybody know that? Right?
13:08
Speaker 2: How did you miss the email? The email? Right? I
13:12
Speaker 2: often ask clients to when I'm coming on board, I
13:15
Speaker 2: often asked them, but just do a data dump, I said,
13:17
Speaker 2: do not create anything new, just you know, call through
13:21
Speaker 2: whatever you've got. I'm a really quick study. Just dump
13:24
Speaker 2: it into a drive that you some shared drive that
13:27
Speaker 2: I've got access to, and I will. I will come
13:30
Speaker 2: to you if I feel like I'm missing. Well, what's
13:32
Speaker 2: so funny is that it's always like, well, here's our
13:35
Speaker 2: change plan and here's our email. The email that went
13:38
Speaker 2: out to everyone on a Friday at one pm. And
13:43
Speaker 2: I'm like, right, okay, and where was And I asked
13:46
Speaker 2: about things like manage your enablement? What is that? I said, Well,
13:50
Speaker 2: how did you want you sent it on a Friday?
13:52
Speaker 2: How did you want the manager to have their team
13:55
Speaker 2: conversations about it? Oh, we didn't think of that. Like
13:58
Speaker 2: little things that allow to amplify the message, to continue
14:02
Speaker 2: to carry on the message. Part is you know some
14:06
Speaker 2: of those things that allow human beings to get on board, right.
14:11
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. I think there's an awful lot
14:13
Speaker 2: of leaders that don't think that people necessarily want to try,
14:17
Speaker 2: and then sometimes it's like give them a.
14:19
Speaker 1: Can't absolutely right, so important, you know, I think, but
14:25
Speaker 1: they're not thinking all that through And I think, like
14:27
Speaker 1: you said, it takes somebody like yourself, so you need
14:29
Speaker 1: to help kind of pull them back out and look
14:31
Speaker 1: at the bigger picture and of course go back into
14:34
Speaker 1: the details. But I think you know your step, your
14:37
Speaker 1: three step process, you know, laing there is It's like
14:39
Speaker 1: I said, it's not rocket sized, not simple, but it
14:41
Speaker 1: is take intentionality, does take energy and effort, and I
14:45
Speaker 1: think sometimes we don't, you know, count the cost of
14:48
Speaker 1: what's all involved there. It's really necessary to implement this change, right,
14:53
Speaker 1: you mentioned right before we started this call or this podcast,
14:56
Speaker 1: of like this gentleman like doing an acquisition or signing
15:00
Speaker 1: their company, what does that all look like? It was
15:02
Speaker 1: just like have you thought through this? I mean when
15:04
Speaker 1: I talk about like Merger's acquisitions, this is like multi
15:07
Speaker 1: year in the process of getting everything set up right,
15:09
Speaker 1: and it's not just like we're going to do that,
15:12
Speaker 1: and oh my goodness, I've kind of you know, sunk
15:15
Speaker 1: myself almost by doing this. I thought I was going
15:17
Speaker 1: to actually increase the capacidy and grow my business. I'm
15:19
Speaker 1: actually sinking my business. I actually had a client like that, Durna,
15:22
Speaker 1: that they he had a civil engineering companies, like I'm
15:26
Speaker 1: going to add structural engineering and I will put them together,
15:28
Speaker 1: and like there were two different companies that they basically
15:30
Speaker 1: stayed that way and like you had almost it was
15:33
Speaker 1: like redundancies and not communication and break down and it
15:38
Speaker 1: just you know, it just didn't think through all of
15:39
Speaker 1: the steps and why somebody like you Thurna like walking
15:43
Speaker 1: the leader through like have you thought about how this
15:47
Speaker 1: reverberates through your organization? You know, Nope, you mind a
15:57
Speaker 1: froze for sure.
15:59
Speaker 2: I I think we just had a little a little blippage.
16:03
Speaker 2: Good okay, technology, right, you know, it's interesting that you
16:08
Speaker 2: said that because I had a client who they four
16:12
Speaker 2: years post an acquisition, but they acquired a competitor. The
16:18
Speaker 2: competitor was going out of business well selling right the leadership.
16:22
Speaker 2: It was a much smaller competitor in this one geographic
16:25
Speaker 2: market for the company as a whole. But in this
16:28
Speaker 2: one geographic market, which happened to be LA, they were
16:33
Speaker 2: fiercely competitive. So the region from the acquiring company and
16:39
Speaker 2: then the competitor, they were like cutthroat competitors, and the leader,
16:46
Speaker 2: the owner of the smaller company that got acquired sold.
16:50
Speaker 2: That's the exit strategy. They sold to a bigger company.
16:53
Speaker 2: It happens every day and for four years, the amount
16:58
Speaker 2: of human glue in that one market to try and
17:01
Speaker 2: keep those people together because because it wasn't that they
17:05
Speaker 2: didn't expect it. I think they they didn't really. They
17:08
Speaker 2: sort of thought that people would just get on board
17:11
Speaker 2: and they lost the human side of that. They've sort
17:15
Speaker 2: of forgot about for four years. It was unbelievable. Now,
17:18
Speaker 2: the funny thing was the clients in that market all knew.
17:23
Speaker 2: I mean, it was like the talk of the you know,
17:26
Speaker 2: you used to compete and now you're so they bought you.
17:30
Speaker 2: That was very interesting because we actually did a very
17:34
Speaker 2: successful organizational change, helping them to have the same kinds
17:39
Speaker 2: of back end business processes, consolidated technology, and in some
17:44
Speaker 2: cases we actually the biggest challenge were really the people.
17:47
Speaker 2: They were so proud of the work that they did
17:50
Speaker 2: on both sides, and they really truly believed that the
17:55
Speaker 2: other wasn't as good. On both sides. Again, they were
17:59
Speaker 2: what you would think when you write your their value proposition.
18:02
Speaker 2: They had a very hard time going from we they
18:05
Speaker 2: to us. But what was really interesting was when that
18:08
Speaker 2: was part of the actual intentional plan, it changed in
18:13
Speaker 2: six days four years. They fought it and in six
18:17
Speaker 2: days of us working together, there wasn't It was gone,
18:22
Speaker 2: and it was so gone. The best part was months
18:26
Speaker 2: after when I was done. The funny thing that used
18:29
Speaker 2: to be talked about was that the competitive small company
18:32
Speaker 2: that was acquired, they used to deliver their equipment in
18:36
Speaker 2: vans that still had the old company's name on the logo.
18:39
Speaker 1: Four years later, Oh jeez.
18:42
Speaker 2: I got I got a picture sent to me by
18:45
Speaker 2: one of the folks from the team that once we
18:48
Speaker 2: had been really successful in bringing the people over with them,
18:51
Speaker 2: there was they were outside rolling the rolling paint over
18:54
Speaker 2: the side of the van in prepare.
18:56
Speaker 1: For the rat Okay, yeah, and.
19:00
Speaker 2: That was set. That was one of my favorite. I
19:02
Speaker 2: have a lot of pictures that are my favorite, like
19:04
Speaker 2: mementos of the work I've done together. That was amongst
19:08
Speaker 2: my favorite.
19:09
Speaker 1: That No, that that's that why it's it's it's interesting
19:13
Speaker 1: you say that, yeah, because I mean I've seen, like
19:16
Speaker 1: you said, businesses that have done as acquires are mergers,
19:19
Speaker 1: and then they have to like, what's that identity you
19:22
Speaker 1: You'll see them might maybe keep a joint name or
19:25
Speaker 1: something like that for a time and eventually they're like,
19:28
Speaker 1: we're going to drop that because you know, we've now
19:32
Speaker 1: you know, got that. But it does take time. It
19:35
Speaker 1: doesn't happen overnight it now, absolutely, but the fact that
19:40
Speaker 1: you know they were working on it. But that what
19:42
Speaker 1: I what I do love though, Serena. What you're saying
19:44
Speaker 1: is that when you bring somebody like yourself, Serena that
19:46
Speaker 1: specializes in this, how much faster it can go. It's
19:50
Speaker 1: not gonna go quick, but it definitely I mean the
19:52
Speaker 1: six days, the mind shifts, that's the moving from the
19:56
Speaker 1: you know them, uh into a we and in what
20:03
Speaker 1: you know that is getting them to that place, awesome kudos.
20:07
Speaker 1: And then it's like you said, the other thing you
20:08
Speaker 1: said was like, what's the ongoing support that's needed, right,
20:13
Speaker 1: Because it's one thing to get there and say, okay, good,
20:16
Speaker 1: we're committed, we're all agreed, yes, but now it's living
20:20
Speaker 1: it out right.
20:22
Speaker 2: Right, and what are the systems in place to allow
20:25
Speaker 2: you to continuously improve. It's really funny because when we
20:28
Speaker 2: first started the transformation and the work through from an
20:32
Speaker 2: organizational perspective, even the CEO was sitting in the back
20:35
Speaker 2: of the room going can we just hurry this up?
20:37
Speaker 2: Like can we get past the why part? And the
20:40
Speaker 2: whole first portion of those six days was all around
20:44
Speaker 2: the why, which he intuitively knew. He didn't feel like
20:50
Speaker 2: we needed to invest the time. And it was funny
20:53
Speaker 2: because we were sitting in the back of the He
20:55
Speaker 2: was sitting in the back of the room through this
20:56
Speaker 2: whole thing, and he was missing steam the faces of
21:01
Speaker 2: the people that needed to come along the journey that
21:04
Speaker 2: he'd long ago adopted and couldn't understand why people didn't
21:07
Speaker 2: come there. But it was very interesting because at the
21:10
Speaker 2: end he said, I don't know how you've changed us
21:15
Speaker 2: like us as now a whole, And it really is
21:19
Speaker 2: about the fact that they're human beings that need to
21:22
Speaker 2: come along. They need to adopt new ways of working
21:25
Speaker 2: that come from adopting new thoughts about their work. And
21:30
Speaker 2: as your point about the cost, there was and I
21:33
Speaker 2: don't remember who said it. I don't know whether it
21:34
Speaker 2: was a unique thought or not, but one of the
21:37
Speaker 2: people that I like to talk about all the time
21:39
Speaker 2: will say, remember the two most expensive letters in the
21:43
Speaker 2: English language are R and E. We can redo things,
21:48
Speaker 2: we can rework things, we can replan things, but if
21:52
Speaker 2: you do it the first time, even if it takes
21:55
Speaker 2: a little longer, it's so much less expensive in money
22:00
Speaker 2: as well as human impact.
22:02
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, Well, what I think it's fascinating because
22:06
Speaker 1: I just had recorded an episode with another colleague of
22:09
Speaker 1: our SUSI about marketing and stories and and and what
22:14
Speaker 1: I think is this gentleman about the why you're talking
22:16
Speaker 1: about like he knew it. And sometimes I think, like,
22:19
Speaker 1: you know, you need to pull us out of him
22:22
Speaker 1: and get it clearer to everybody else what that is.
22:26
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes we forget that and it needs
22:29
Speaker 1: to be reiterated refocused, like bringing these people along and
22:34
Speaker 1: so that they get understanding. And I think sometimes as
22:36
Speaker 1: leaders we don't we we've been through all of that
22:38
Speaker 1: and we just we just kind of put it aside.
22:40
Speaker 1: And you're saying, no, no, no, we need to this needs
22:43
Speaker 1: to be shared with everybody understanding how do we get
22:45
Speaker 1: here and this is the reason why we're going this direction.
22:48
Speaker 1: But they're like, what's the basis for this? Like what
22:51
Speaker 1: you know? You're at least that's important to me, Serena,
22:54
Speaker 1: I as somebody that's part of the organization.
22:58
Speaker 2: It's and it always is. What's really funny, and I
23:01
Speaker 2: sometimes I have to remind leaders that typically to ascend
23:07
Speaker 2: to a level of senior leadership, you have some general
23:11
Speaker 2: abilities maybe to run the business, but you also have
23:15
Speaker 2: a level of just intellect typically. I mean, I'm sure
23:18
Speaker 2: there's exceptions, but typically, and it's not unusual for leadership
23:23
Speaker 2: characteristics to be a quick learner, a fast adopting kind
23:28
Speaker 2: of human. So you may see a pattern and see
23:34
Speaker 2: the end right away, what's the outcome? So one of
23:37
Speaker 2: the things that I often say to leaders is while
23:38
Speaker 2: you can say ABC, oh this is the alphabet XYZ,
23:42
Speaker 2: we're done let's move on to the next thing. Not
23:45
Speaker 2: everyone on the team that has not ascended to leadership
23:50
Speaker 2: may not have those same kinds of capability. You may
23:54
Speaker 2: need to slow it down for them, or you may
23:56
Speaker 2: just say it differently. Yes, and those are some of
23:59
Speaker 2: those challenges that the human side of change is so important.
24:05
Speaker 2: And I think that you know or leaders that they
24:07
Speaker 2: don't know that they're I've worked with plenty of leaders
24:10
Speaker 2: that don't know that they're really that smart, right, that
24:12
Speaker 2: they really just assume that everybody is keeping pace with them.
24:17
Speaker 2: And in some cases they're not always the smartest, but
24:20
Speaker 2: sometimes they are the they've for sure, they've thought about
24:24
Speaker 2: it longer, and it took a longer to write the
24:27
Speaker 2: one email.
24:29
Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely absolutely so. I know. I think that's so
24:35
Speaker 1: important to read the work that you're doing with companies
24:39
Speaker 1: and having somebody like yourself come in there, pull out
24:43
Speaker 1: those stories, pull out the why and getting the buy in.
24:48
Speaker 1: Because I was just talking with a colleague or a client,
24:52
Speaker 1: an employee of a client this morning, and she was saying, like,
24:56
Speaker 1: I just get these edicts or things that come out
24:58
Speaker 1: from the owner of the company, but I don't know
25:01
Speaker 1: that she's hearing me or understanding me, and there's a
25:04
Speaker 1: disconnect there, you know, are we on the same page
25:07
Speaker 1: as to the mission and what we're trying to achieve
25:09
Speaker 1: or the greater vision or is there misalignment.
25:14
Speaker 2: That and that misalignment shows up in so many ways,
25:18
Speaker 2: and I it's not I'm not saying it's always the
25:21
Speaker 2: leader's fault. Right. In some cases, you will have a team.
25:25
Speaker 2: I actually have of the senior most marketing organization in
25:35
Speaker 2: a nonprofit and she actually sat down with the new
25:40
Speaker 2: new CEO, had a wonderful conversation talking about the contributions
25:45
Speaker 2: that she makes from a marketing perspective to this nonprofit,
25:48
Speaker 2: which is an interesting dynamic in and of itself for
25:51
Speaker 2: you know, and the marketing person reports to the COO,
25:55
Speaker 2: who really doesn't understand marketing but certainly didn't understand this dynamic.
26:01
Speaker 2: And what was so funny was I often say, I
26:05
Speaker 2: would say to the CEO in that case, the marketing
26:08
Speaker 2: leader that you've got there knows some of the experiences,
26:12
Speaker 2: know some of the things. But if if she is
26:15
Speaker 2: not in a place to be able to give you,
26:17
Speaker 2: like I've asked her some key metrics, how do you
26:20
Speaker 2: know if your things in marketing are working. How do
26:23
Speaker 2: you what are the metrics that are telling you your
26:25
Speaker 2: contributions are there? But you need to broaden the experiences
26:29
Speaker 2: of the leaders or in this case, of the employees
26:33
Speaker 2: that are important to you. You need to ask them
26:35
Speaker 2: the questions to allow them to broaden their basis for
26:39
Speaker 2: the change so they can get on board with you. Right.
26:42
Speaker 2: If you're saying we want to grow twenty five percent, okay,
26:44
Speaker 2: well what part of that do I have? It's not
26:48
Speaker 2: your You guys have got this twenty five percent. What
26:50
Speaker 2: part of the twenty five percent do I have? And
26:53
Speaker 2: what can I do in my role? Or all the
26:57
Speaker 2: way down to individual contributors, how do they I feel
27:00
Speaker 2: aligned to the strategic vision that you're looking to get to.
27:04
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yeah, that's Serena. You're bringing back memories. And
27:09
Speaker 1: I was given sales goals at one point for this company.
27:13
Speaker 1: I was given sales goals, and I said, Okay, like
27:17
Speaker 1: I knew that, I mean in the industry, but like
27:19
Speaker 1: what specific clients where are we trying to go? Are
27:21
Speaker 1: we trying to diverse? Like how do I am I
27:23
Speaker 1: in align with the larger picture? And that wasn't given
27:25
Speaker 1: to me. I wasn't clear on that. It was just like,
27:28
Speaker 1: come up with some sales goals, make it more than
27:30
Speaker 1: you made last year. Okay, I can do that, but like,
27:33
Speaker 1: how do I know I'm going to, like you said,
27:35
Speaker 1: win because I could shoot for some things and that's
27:37
Speaker 1: not an overall alignment. But it wasn't clear to me
27:40
Speaker 1: the strategic vision in in I worked with another company
27:45
Speaker 1: that was very practical, very intentional about strategic planning and
27:48
Speaker 1: looking at these on a regular basis and kind of
27:50
Speaker 1: going back and like I said, not just a one
27:51
Speaker 1: time thing. It's like but having somebody like you, Serena
27:55
Speaker 1: like have them like I love that question, like how
27:58
Speaker 1: do you know you're winning? How do you know you're
28:00
Speaker 1: actually moving in the right direction instead of going to
28:02
Speaker 1: the CEO's like here's what I did, Like, well, I
28:04
Speaker 1: don't like that, or this isn't well, we're totally talking
28:07
Speaker 1: past each other, you know.
28:09
Speaker 2: You know. One of my favorite challenges that I had
28:13
Speaker 2: with a client was they had gone through this effort,
28:16
Speaker 2: had another set of consultants in to create help them
28:19
Speaker 2: create a new mission and a new vision, a new
28:21
Speaker 2: set of core values, and I and they were really
28:25
Speaker 2: struggling with how do we take this from a poster
28:28
Speaker 2: on the wall, something on our website for recruiting into
28:32
Speaker 2: something that was real, And so I actually brought them
28:37
Speaker 2: through this. We called it the power of land. We
28:39
Speaker 2: talked a lot about the core value as espoused by leadership,
28:44
Speaker 2: So what right? And I would I would ask them,
28:46
Speaker 2: not being sarcastic here, I'm actually so what So what
28:50
Speaker 2: do you want people to think, feel, and do? What
28:52
Speaker 2: do you want people to see? And how does this
28:55
Speaker 2: play into the objectives that you set for an individual
29:00
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the calendar year performance year? How
29:04
Speaker 2: does it show up in your quarterly weekly one on
29:09
Speaker 2: ones if that's what you're doing, but quarterly reviews or
29:11
Speaker 2: annual performance evaluations? And how do you make sure these
29:16
Speaker 2: your objectives that you're setting for people all once you
29:19
Speaker 2: stack them all up together, they reach that core value,
29:23
Speaker 2: that vision that you're talking about from a strategic perspective
29:26
Speaker 2: and live up to the core values of the company.
29:29
Speaker 2: And I love when I bring the big picture down
29:32
Speaker 2: to the myopic little and then bring it back together
29:36
Speaker 2: for teams, because so often I think that's lost, right,
29:40
Speaker 2: the ability to take picture, break it down into like
29:43
Speaker 2: a little actionable what are you doing this week? One
29:47
Speaker 2: of my favorite quotes that my clients will tag me
29:51
Speaker 2: with now more than one says, you have an accountability.
29:55
Speaker 2: How do you have such a very specific I will
29:58
Speaker 2: say to people, Okay, well you know what that means?
30:00
Speaker 2: We have eighteen days to get something done. They're like
30:03
Speaker 2: talking about the end of the quarter. I'm like, yeah,
30:05
Speaker 2: that means we have eighteen business days, or that means
30:07
Speaker 2: we have thirty one days including all the holidays. Is
30:10
Speaker 2: that what we're doing? And it's I don't know where
30:13
Speaker 2: that comes from, but this ability to take you know,
30:15
Speaker 2: this lofty well, we'll get there by the end of
30:18
Speaker 2: the year. It's like, okay, people, let's talk about what's real.
30:21
Speaker 2: Let's talk about really what's kind accountability? That one of
30:25
Speaker 2: my favorite clients is there you go with your kind
30:28
Speaker 2: accountability again, I say, And you have teenagers, I say,
30:33
Speaker 2: it's because I was a parent of teenagers, right, I
30:35
Speaker 2: want them to speak to you in their twenties. They
30:39
Speaker 2: need to sort of give the kind accountability in their teens.
30:43
Speaker 1: Yes, no, absolutely, that is great. I love that you
30:49
Speaker 1: bring that kind of ground them and like, because it's
30:52
Speaker 1: easy to throw all out on lofty goals. And I
30:54
Speaker 1: think sometimes when you get the visionaries of the company
30:57
Speaker 1: because they started the company and maybe they're you know
30:59
Speaker 1: what I know, but there they need people to help
31:02
Speaker 1: to come and implement this, make this actually happen, and
31:06
Speaker 1: what's realistic? Like, how could we actually do this? Is
31:09
Speaker 1: great to have lots of great ideas, all good, good things,
31:11
Speaker 1: we're just like, right now, out of all of those things,
31:14
Speaker 1: what I was actually practical? What can we actually get
31:16
Speaker 1: done with the resources we have, the people, the systems,
31:19
Speaker 1: all like all these things right, and having somebody like you,
31:23
Speaker 1: Serena give them you know, it's not like you're trying
31:26
Speaker 1: to have cold water on them, but just like, hey, look,
31:29
Speaker 1: let's just look at the reality of things. And I'll
31:31
Speaker 1: want you to actually be successful in achieving these things
31:34
Speaker 1: and not feel discouraged that you missed all of these things.
31:38
Speaker 1: And sometimes what that's what we end up doing. I
31:39
Speaker 1: think of we look at the gap, we look at
31:42
Speaker 1: all the things we didn't get to, and they're like, well,
31:45
Speaker 1: but what what are we actually achieving? What are we
31:47
Speaker 1: actually succeeding on?
31:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, optimism is important. People will rise up to that.
31:52
Speaker 2: And I really truly do believe that you need to
31:54
Speaker 2: go after organizational change believing that the outcomes are possible
32:00
Speaker 2: if you don't If you don't believe them, one your
32:03
Speaker 2: team is going to see that, right, And it's everybody
32:06
Speaker 2: and a people manager responsibilit You're showing up every day
32:08
Speaker 2: at work, you're on a zoom call, and you're going
32:11
Speaker 2: you know that thing that the boss wants. Guess what,
32:16
Speaker 2: you didn't create engagement in that thing by doing that right?
32:19
Speaker 2: And as a leadership, how do you create optimism and
32:22
Speaker 2: an achievable optimism right? It doesn't have to be something
32:25
Speaker 2: that you're that you're faking. It should not. I don't
32:28
Speaker 2: believe in the fake it till you make it activity.
32:31
Speaker 2: I just don't you know that it doesn't happen that way.
32:35
Speaker 2: I do believe that there is something that says, let's
32:38
Speaker 2: be really crystal clear as to how do we get there?
32:40
Speaker 2: And wildly optimistic is fine, but you have to make
32:44
Speaker 2: sure that you're going to get there.
32:45
Speaker 1: So yes, oh man, Sareena. We're getting close to the
32:49
Speaker 1: end of the podcast here because there's so much more.
32:51
Speaker 1: I love where we're going with this because the reason
32:54
Speaker 1: I love having Serena in here is because I found
32:57
Speaker 1: I found synergy with her and what she's trying to do,
32:59
Speaker 1: what you are doing with with Diamond Solutions group, and
33:04
Speaker 1: you know, the bigger issue of like the longer term
33:07
Speaker 1: issue of like you said, living this out and having
33:10
Speaker 1: and that's why I love you know, where we like
33:13
Speaker 1: can collaborate and I use two tools like I have
33:16
Speaker 1: in my toolboxes of continuing to build on you know,
33:20
Speaker 1: the why and strengthening the relationship, strengthening the alignment, right,
33:24
Speaker 1: strengthening overall capacity and ways that we're getting things done.
33:30
Speaker 1: And it takes it's not one person, not just you,
33:32
Speaker 1: it's not just me, right, and it's bringing in all
33:35
Speaker 1: these folks together, whether it's internal, the team or the
33:37
Speaker 1: external you know, vendor support that they need right sure,
33:42
Speaker 1: you know, as as we're wrapping upstream, I want to
33:45
Speaker 1: give you. I mean, we talked a lot about a
33:47
Speaker 1: lot of different things. You're grave some great quotes, h
33:51
Speaker 1: but what would you say is kind of like if
33:53
Speaker 1: if they're lead, you know, as a leaders listening to this,
33:57
Speaker 1: they're they're maybe not there yet, or they're maybe you know,
33:59
Speaker 1: they're maybe they're in the midst of it. They're struggling,
34:01
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh my gosh, how do I solve
34:03
Speaker 1: this problem? Or I'm seeing it it's coming? You know,
34:07
Speaker 1: what would you what would you encourage them? What would
34:09
Speaker 1: you leave them with to consider?
34:14
Speaker 2: I always consider with have you communicated the purpose, the
34:18
Speaker 2: why behind what it is that we're doing. In that
34:21
Speaker 2: communication with the point at which you feel like if
34:23
Speaker 2: you have to say it again you're going to long
34:25
Speaker 2: with a little bit in your mouth, you know that
34:28
Speaker 2: you said it enough at that point you really true
34:33
Speaker 2: And what feedback have you taken to allow yourself to
34:37
Speaker 2: know that you are really truly on the right path
34:42
Speaker 2: the why is really important and able the behaviors and
34:44
Speaker 2: then continue to sustain the changes. Mm hmm.
34:48
Speaker 1: So Serena, I know you and I are connected on Facebook.
34:51
Speaker 1: We're also in the Success Champions Network, which is a
34:53
Speaker 1: great Necker group for businesses. But how else can people
34:56
Speaker 1: find you and connect with you?
35:01
Speaker 2: LinkedIn? LinkedIn is the place to be a billion professionals
35:05
Speaker 2: there and as I've discovered, as long as it's spelled
35:08
Speaker 2: right with an A, S, A R E N A,
35:12
Speaker 2: I am the only Serena Diamond and a billion people.
35:16
Speaker 1: Wow, there you go. And by the way, yeah, follow Serena.
35:19
Speaker 1: She has some amazing content you posts on pretty much
35:22
Speaker 1: every day almost I'm always looking at but there's another
35:24
Speaker 1: post from Serena. Amazing you know every day. Serena, thank
35:29
Speaker 1: you so much for being on the Business Around Table podcast.
35:32
Speaker 1: It's a true pleasure. I'm sure we're going to have
35:34
Speaker 1: you back again because you brought up a lot of
35:35
Speaker 1: great comments and observations that I feel like could definitely
35:40
Speaker 1: be much more. We can cover much more depth, but
35:44
Speaker 1: thank you for being on the podcast today.
35:47
Speaker 2: Thanks much for having me, David.
35:50
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for listening. I appreciate you guys, subscribing, sharing
35:54
Speaker 1: the podcast always a pleasure. Until next time, take care,
35:59
Speaker 1: be well, and thanks again for listening. Hi everybody,