Latest / The Higherside Chats / Free Plus Show: Peter Mark Adams | Game of Saturn: The Sola-Busca Tarot, Bloodlines, & The Demiurge Deal

Transcript

Free Plus Show: Peter Mark Adams | Game of Saturn: The Sola-Busca Tarot, Bloodlines, & The Demiurge Deal · The Higherside Chats

• 0:01
  Hello,
• 0:02
  free first hour subscribers.
• 0:05
  Greg Carl would here and over the years,
• 0:07
  some of the main things I've heard about
• 0:08
  the full 2 hour plus show and the
• 0:11
  membership are things like, oh, I've been meaning
• 0:13
  to sign up for a long time, but
• 0:15
  have just been lazy.
• 0:17
  Or that the first hour sounds so good
• 0:19
  and complete that it's hard to feel like
• 0:21
  you're missing that much or assess the value
• 0:24
  of a second hour.
• 0:25
  Basically the old adage you don't know what
• 0:27
  you're missing. And I understand that point, I
• 0:29
  don't really like to tease things in that
• 0:32
  sort of way feels too s salesman.
• 0:35
  So I thought about how I could address
• 0:37
  that. What I might be able to do
• 0:39
  to convince more free listeners that it's worth
• 0:41
  converting over for. And there really is no
• 0:43
  better way to do that than showing free
• 0:45
  listeners what a plus show is like or
• 0:48
  how much more a second hour might contain.
• 0:51
  And that is my plan here at least
• 0:53
  for a while and we'll see how it
• 0:54
  works out for me. 1 older plus show
• 0:57
  in the free show feed every month, at
• 1:00
  the end of the month as a sort
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  of peek behind the plus curtain.
• 1:05
  Because people who are members here full 2
• 1:07
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• 1:10
  little different from the way, other people in
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  this space, do it, where they split the
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  hours into 2 separate files.
• 1:17
  To me, as a listener, that's annoying. It's
• 1:19
  like flipping a tape from side a to
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  side b. I don't really wanna deal with
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  that when I'm in the middle of something
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  else. Just keep it going. So also a
• 1:28
  waste of the listener time to hear 2
• 1:30
  wrap ups and 2
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  introductions trying to get back into the vibe.
• 1:35
  So that's why I do it like I
• 1:37
  do it. It does confuse people sometimes,
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  episodes, If you feel like what you're hearing
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  is too fresh in your memory,
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  skip ahead about 50 minutes and just pick
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  up from there,
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  and you can be pretty sure that you're
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  My process has always been find a natural
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  sounding cut point about halfway in,
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  Make a chop,
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  and then tack on the whole, tell us
• 2:05
  where we can get more links, etcetera
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  section that is always at the end of
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  a full interview. If you're trying to work
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  it out in your head, that's how I
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  do it. With that said, I'm trying to
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  choose episodes that I have fond memories of,
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  even if the material isn't a hundred percent
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  fresh my mind and ones that are also
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  on some of the more timeless subjects.
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  No point rehash some old political thing or
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  a previous years, astrology.
• 2:34
  And just going by that, gives me tons
• 2:36
  of great shows to choose from. I hope
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  you enjoy this new process. I hope it
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  gives new life to older episodes and re
• 2:43
  highlight some of the amazing guests I've been
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  lucky enough to have. And, of course, if
• 2:48
  you end up thinking damn. That was good.
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  That was more satisfying than just the normal
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  free show. Maybe it is worth 8 dollars
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  a month. Well, then I would hope that
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  you do pull the trigger.
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  I mean, why try to make it something
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  else? That is the goal here.
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  So I think everyone wins with this free
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  plus show a month plan
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  If you want plus through Spotify, use the
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  Patreon link.
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  Otherwise, use the main 1. Thanks. And enjoy.
• 3:31
  The plan is something masters almost surely have
• 3:34
  a plan this clearly maybe something near beyond
• 3:38
  the realm of man and until you felony
• 3:41
  tested every last just.
• 3:45
  Upon the more you think you know the
• 3:47
  you really do. That's true.
• 3:51
  Where would we
• 4:11
  Alright. Fireside side chatter. It's no secret that
• 4:13
  the cons crowd has made many claims about
• 4:15
  the Capstone Cabal and the ruling elite class
• 4:17
  of past and present.
• 4:19
  Claims that range from a fascination with a
• 4:21
  cult art, securing power through magic and making
• 4:23
  dark packs with demonic multi dimensional entities, 2
• 4:27
  selective breeding carefully preserving blood lines and even
• 4:29
  that these psychopathic power players have some type
• 4:32
  of rep origin that might make them only
• 4:34
  half human.
• 4:35
  And as we know, it's very hard to
• 4:37
  find the smoking gun for these sorts of
• 4:39
  clams, and we're left with the analysis of
• 4:41
  small bread breadcrumbs, strange symbolism and the occasional
• 4:44
  promote notion of ideas and motifs that seem
• 4:46
  completely foreign to anything we would recognize in
• 4:48
  the mainstream.
• 4:50
  Well folks, it seems like a fifteenth century
• 4:52
  relic known as the Solo bush at tara
• 4:54
  has broken free of its carefully maintained chain
• 4:56
  of custody behind the curtain as an ari
• 4:59
  class magical heir room to find itself on
• 5:01
  display in a Milan museum in modern times
• 5:03
  and wouldn't you know, it contains aspects of
• 5:06
  nearly all of those os so strange
• 5:08
  claims.
• 5:09
  Lucky for us, though the royal worldview is
• 5:11
  carefully kept close to the chest and putting
• 5:13
  such a relic in its proper context seems
• 5:15
  like a monumental task,
• 5:17
  Today's guest, Peter Mark Adams is a brilliant
• 5:19
  Iso esoteric sc t expert professional energy worker
• 5:23
  and a cult symbol decoder that seriously dedicated
• 5:26
  himself to unpacking this steep es esoteric artifact
• 5:28
  fully drenched in the demi and has released
• 5:30
  his analysis and conclusions in an epic and
• 5:33
  beautiful book titled the game of Saturn.
• 5:35
  It's 1 of the most impressive pieces of
• 5:37
  work that I've seen in some time. The
• 5:39
  implications are damn or unbelievable and I can't
• 5:41
  wait to get down to it. A serious
• 5:43
  honor and a pleasure, a master of his
• 5:45
  craft, Peter Mark Adams welcome to the higher
• 5:47
  side.
• 5:48
  Hi there, Greg. Lovely to talk to you.
• 5:50
  Yeah, man. I'm so happy to have you
• 5:52
  here. Scarlet Imprint always seems to work with
• 5:54
  amazing authors, and I'm really impressed with this
• 5:57
  book. Something that... Yeah. I mean, it is
• 5:59
  something I don't think I could put together
• 6:01
  if my life depended on it, Know It's
• 6:03
  so really kudos to you. Thank you so
• 6:06
  much.
• 6:07
  And You know, to kick this off, we
• 6:09
  really have to break this down for people,
• 6:11
  but we're talking about an elaborate
• 6:13
  illustrated and decorated deck of cards that matches
• 6:16
  the struck sure of a classic taro deck
• 6:18
  dating back to the Italian renaissance, I guess
• 6:20
  it's the oldest known deck of its type
• 6:22
  in existence, but you call it a Tu,
• 6:24
  because outside of that same basic structure, it
• 6:27
  doesn't really have much else in common with
• 6:30
  traditional taro, is that right?
• 6:31
  That's right. There's about 3 cards.
• 6:34
  In the deck that have a kind of
• 6:36
  passing similarity to the cards you'd would expect
• 6:39
  to see amongst the trump's in a modern
• 6:41
  deck. But apart from that, everything else is
• 6:44
  utterly unique.
• 6:45
  And it was that fact actually, which really
• 6:49
  got me turned on to the task of
• 6:51
  trying to figure out
• 6:53
  why they've gone to such extraordinary
• 6:56
  cost,
• 6:58
  investment of time,
• 6:59
  the use of a,
• 7:01
  Renaissance master and engrave.
• 7:05
  And yet the thing didn't make any sense.
• 7:07
  So there's some... Had to be something going
• 7:09
  on here, which I couldn't figure out, and
• 7:12
  that really led me on down the rabbit
• 7:14
  hole. To be honest. I I started to
• 7:17
  disappear from. Day to day living as I
• 7:19
  got en in this thing, you know? Yeah.
• 7:22
  And eventually, I was working like
• 7:25
  hours a day, those 7 days a week.
• 7:27
  It took me about 3 years to break
• 7:30
  into the decks
• 7:31
  heavily coded
• 7:33
  multi layered symbolism.
• 7:35
  Mh.
• 7:36
  That's so provocative, And the artwork on the
• 7:38
  cards, they depict everything from
• 7:41
  barely innocent looking figures to d
• 7:44
  and holding babies over fire pits. Yeah. But
• 7:46
  I guess, what about the artwork is so
• 7:48
  special not only from a content perspective, but
• 7:51
  a historical 1 as well.
• 7:53
  Yeah. I mean, this is the first...
• 7:55
  It's the earliest complete t that exists. That's
• 7:59
  1 thing.
• 8:00
  Secondly, it's
• 8:02
  been done by this renaissance master and engrave.
• 8:05
  So the the quality is absolutely superb.
• 8:09
  And those 2 factors alone
• 8:11
  set the deck apart from pretty well everything
• 8:13
  else.
• 8:14
  The third factor though,
• 8:16
  it has no Christian
• 8:18
  imagery or symbolism a minute it whatsoever.
• 8:22
  And that is that is really exceptional. I
• 8:24
  mean, I can't think of another taro deck
• 8:26
  in existence that doesn't include certain
• 8:29
  aspects of the
• 8:31
  Christian
• 8:32
  theology.
• 8:33
  Right.
• 8:34
  I found that strange as well because I'm
• 8:36
  a little bit familiar with the taro, and
• 8:38
  there's always that final judgment card at least,
• 8:41
  which is a very christian thing.
• 8:43
  That's it. And there's nothing like that in
• 8:45
  this deck. And again, that was another
• 8:48
  of the factors that drove me to
• 8:51
  try and figure out what the heck is
• 8:53
  going on with this thing.
• 8:55
  There's another fact Du Well greg, which is
• 8:57
  really strange with this deck,
• 8:59
  despite being a masterpiece a piece of Renaissance
• 9:02
  art has no proven whatsoever.
• 9:06
  And, like, providence is everything in the art
• 9:09
  game?
• 9:10
  Where did it come from?
• 9:12
  Where did it originate? Who is whose hands
• 9:15
  as been in, because this is a deck
• 9:17
  of cards that survived in intact for 500
• 9:21
  years.
• 9:22
  And nobody knows where it's being poor. At
• 9:24
  least 300 of those years.
• 9:28
  So there's a lot of mysteries. There's a
• 9:30
  lot of locked boxes
• 9:32
  and it's like the wet dream for the
• 9:35
  ec esoteric research, you know? Absolutely.
• 9:41
  I can't claim to have cracked the whole
• 9:42
  thing. III think I got most of the
• 9:44
  Trump and court cards
• 9:46
  decode,
• 9:47
  but there's a sub substantial a number of
• 9:50
  suit cards that still require work.
• 9:53
  There's more to come.
• 9:55
  Always.
• 9:56
  And so you know, the main purpose of
• 9:59
  a typical to row is definition, But is
• 10:01
  there an indication that that is
• 10:04
  not the same purpose here? Or is this
• 10:06
  just a different form of definition.
• 10:09
  I think people have always used different
• 10:12
  things around them for d purposes, you know,
• 10:15
  whether it's
• 10:16
  coffee grounds or or what.
• 10:18
  The original decks were created for gaming.
• 10:21
  That's where the the taro came from. But
• 10:24
  of course, because of the imagery because of
• 10:26
  its symbolic nature, it lends itself 2 other
• 10:30
  uses
• 10:31
  specifically to d nation.
• 10:34
  I think that's...
• 10:35
  If I'm gonna to, like, jump to the
• 10:37
  core of the thing, what we're faced with
• 10:39
  here is something like an elite grim
• 10:44
  of surgical
• 10:46
  draco magic.
• 10:49
  Okay? If I just, like sum up the
• 10:52
  endpoint of my research. And the question therefore
• 10:55
  is where did it come from?
• 10:57
  How was it used?
• 10:59
  And what was the intent of the designer,
• 11:02
  mh, in putting this thing together?
• 11:06
  Because it illuminate
• 11:07
  an aspect of the modern conspiracy world, this
• 11:10
  this notion of a cult of saturn. Yes.
• 11:14
  It illuminate the origins of this thing.
• 11:18
  Which before now has been very ne.
• 11:21
  Right. And it is such a amazing piece
• 11:23
  of history and amazing artifact for that reason
• 11:26
  And I guess I would also ask you,
• 11:28
  because you're not the first person to look
• 11:29
  at this deck? What can you tell us
• 11:31
  about some of the theories
• 11:33
  about the deck and why it was created
• 11:35
  before you came along, the things that you
• 11:37
  dismiss.
• 11:38
  Well,
• 11:39
  the obvious thing is that, you know, 9
• 11:42
  of the Trump cards
• 11:43
  depict figures connected with Roman Republican history.
• 11:48
  So it's easy to dismiss the whole deck
• 11:50
  as an educational deck.
• 11:53
  But as an explanation, it just doesn't stand
• 11:56
  up.
• 11:57
  How about the other, you know, trump cards?
• 11:59
  How about all the court cards and the,
• 12:01
  you know,
• 12:02
  suit cards. So, you know,
• 12:05
  the obvious
• 12:06
  explanation is too fa
• 12:09
  to
• 12:10
  suggests that it's an educational deck also doesn't
• 12:13
  take account of the homo erotic elements in
• 12:15
  its imagery. Mh. You know, it's a Christian
• 12:19
  stance,
• 12:21
  and the fact that the
• 12:23
  Trump cards that appear to name Roman
• 12:27
  figures
• 12:28
  have been spelled
• 12:30
  in such a way
• 12:32
  that you cannot immediately
• 12:34
  identify any particular person.
• 12:36
  Okay. The Romans had a thing called the
• 12:38
  Jen's, it was like a family name. And
• 12:41
  because the
• 12:42
  Roman elite
• 12:44
  was governed by a very small number of
• 12:46
  families for a period of, like 500 years.
• 12:50
  The jen's doesn't give you any
• 12:53
  indication of of which member of the family,
• 12:57
  within that 500 years, you know, who it
• 13:00
  could be. Mh.
• 13:01
  So again, it it doesn't actually fulfill an
• 13:04
  educational purpose on that score either.
• 13:07
  The other explanation is that it's another
• 13:10
  Wedding present, a kind of sump wedding present
• 13:13
  like the Vis
• 13:14
  sports deck. But again, the home rot
• 13:17
  imagery, the baby getting cooked over the fire,
• 13:21
  scenes of emulation and d.
• 13:26
  That'll be some wedding present. Right? Right,
• 13:30
  as good instead you wouldn't be invited back
• 13:33
  true. So they're the main lines that have
• 13:36
  been
• 13:37
  attempted to explain the imagery in this deck
• 13:39
  and and they don't really work.
• 13:41
  Mh. So there has to be a deep
• 13:43
  game going on. And another
• 13:46
  foundational thing that we should probably discuss with
• 13:49
  people or discuss 4 people is that
• 13:52
  there's also something that should be said about
• 13:53
  the historical context, like not only the politics
• 13:56
  of the time, but the attitudes about magical
• 13:58
  ritual and practice. This kinda speaks to those
• 14:00
  home erotic elements you mentioned. But what do
• 14:02
  you think is important for people to know
• 14:04
  in that regard
• 14:06
  to place this back in its proper context
• 14:08
  of when it was actually made.
• 14:10
  Okay. I mean, if we're gonna turn the
• 14:12
  clock back to fifteenth century
• 14:14
  Renaissance Europe,
• 14:16
  and specifically to Italy,
• 14:18
  Magic
• 14:19
  in 1 form or other was pervasive
• 14:22
  at every level of society
• 14:24
  from the kind of folk healing
• 14:28
  folk witchcraft and
• 14:30
  Carlo Ginsburg has done excellent work in documenting
• 14:34
  some of the long lived
• 14:36
  pagan witchcraft movements in Italy, the Be
• 14:40
  In the north of Italy. We have the
• 14:42
  possession cult of Tar
• 14:44
  small in the south of Italy.
• 14:47
  And on top of this, you have a
• 14:49
  layer of
• 14:51
  what I would call Grim war Magic.
• 14:53
  So that you find clerical scholars,
• 14:56
  students, monks, priests,
• 14:59
  specializing
• 15:00
  in
• 15:01
  ritual magic for hire.
• 15:03
  Okay? So if you have any problems, you
• 15:05
  go to them and and they that, you
• 15:07
  know, that you need a demon exercising or
• 15:09
  you wanna summon on a demon and send
• 15:11
  it against someone. The use of a tax.
• 15:15
  These would be the go to people for
• 15:17
  that.
• 15:18
  And we have excellence
• 15:20
  testimony from the in
• 15:22
  records
• 15:23
  for Modern and Bo.
• 15:26
  Which demonstrate that these priests
• 15:29
  the ones who were recognized as wielding a
• 15:32
  lot of power in terms of demonic magic
• 15:35
  with
• 15:36
  very carefully protected by the elite.
• 15:38
  Mh. Their major sponsors were the elite families
• 15:42
  in fact, and and whenever an in
• 15:44
  attempted to take 1 to court,
• 15:47
  have them def f or whatever they could
• 15:50
  do against them. The elite families always stepped
• 15:53
  in and put the case aside. So there
• 15:56
  they were well protected at the highest levels
• 15:59
  of the Renaissance society.
• 16:01
  Right. So the That's pretty well the pyramid
• 16:04
  as it were, the background
• 16:07
  into which this deck, which actually illustrates another
• 16:11
  strand and stream of magic
• 16:14
  coming from the east,
• 16:15
  entered into and merged with. Mh. Yes. That
• 16:19
  background makes it all the more provocative. And
• 16:22
  when it comes to the dex influences and
• 16:24
  the worldview and ideas that it seems to
• 16:26
  contain
• 16:27
  You kinda break it down into 3 parts
• 16:29
  because it can get pretty complex, but you
• 16:31
  talk about the dex cosmology.
• 16:33
  It's meta physics, and it's ritual, use I
• 16:35
  think that's a pretty clear way to talk
• 16:37
  about such a dense item. What would you
• 16:39
  say about its cosmology, for example.
• 16:43
  It's totally.
• 16:45
  And and
• 16:47
  it
• 16:48
  identifies a series of planets, thick stars and
• 16:51
  constellation that are the most prolific
• 16:54
  in terms of astra magic.
• 16:56
  And it was this fact that gave me
• 16:58
  the first
• 17:00
  indication that what I was dealing with
• 17:02
  was a grim of elite so
• 17:06
  of the darkest kind.
• 17:08
  Right.
• 17:09
  Okay. So That's the cosmology that we have
• 17:12
  here. Mh.
• 17:13
  The items, you know, you will find them
• 17:15
  in pick tricks or any of those classic
• 17:18
  texts
• 17:19
  of astro magic.
• 17:21
  But the ones particularly picked out and illustrated
• 17:24
  within the deck are wholly.
• 17:27
  So III can't conceive of another use of
• 17:31
  those energies other than what they call m.
• 17:35
  Attack so.
• 17:36
  Right.
• 17:37
  It's pretty cut and dry when it comes
• 17:39
  to the things they were trying to invoke.
• 17:41
  It's just negativity
• 17:44
  across the board it seems.
• 17:46
  It's
• 17:47
  it's an exercise power.
• 17:50
  I think when we look at these elite
• 17:51
  families, you know, we need to realized that
• 17:54
  they were not like a modern state. They
• 17:56
  didn't function in that way. Mh. They were
• 17:59
  far closer to the godfather. Oh, the the
• 18:02
  film in Ba.
• 18:04
  They had their
• 18:06
  beneficial side,
• 18:07
  but they were capable of any kind of
• 18:10
  cruelty.
• 18:11
  Or evil. Mh.
• 18:13
  These were the families from which Machiavelli
• 18:16
  drew the principles of governing
• 18:19
  just by observing them. So
• 18:21
  on the 1 side, they would have d
• 18:24
  marriages. They would have, you know,
• 18:26
  agreements, treaties and so on. But on the
• 18:29
  other side, the flip side of the coin
• 18:31
  is their employment of poisonous
• 18:33
  you know, sorcerer,
• 18:35
  assassins,
• 18:36
  spies.
• 18:38
  So,
• 18:39
  you know, there's, like too sides to the
• 18:41
  coin. And and this deck illustrates
• 18:44
  this is why it's such a rare artifact,
• 18:46
  a very dark side of the dark side
• 18:48
  of the coin. Mh.
• 18:51
  But
• 18:52
  I wanna qualify that, and it's something probably
• 18:54
  we lump unpack as we go along Greg
• 18:56
  is is to say that what this deck
• 18:59
  is
• 19:00
  exe amplifying is not the traditional grim
• 19:04
  so.
• 19:05
  Okay? Okay?
• 19:07
  Like the sorcerer, these guys, this elite
• 19:10
  employed had copies of, like, the kia of
• 19:13
  Solomon and A And and those candidates of
• 19:15
  texts, classic
• 19:17
  Grim was, you know? Mh. This stuff is
• 19:20
  of an order above that.
• 19:23
  In terms of its educational background is tradition.
• 19:26
  And it's almost never been talked about in
• 19:29
  the context of the Western
• 19:31
  esoteric history before.
• 19:33
  Because it's comes straight from the Byzantine
• 19:36
  elite.
• 19:37
  Wow.
• 19:38
  Okay? It's another thread. It's not being taught
• 19:41
  about as far as I can see, has
• 19:43
  not been identified as a major player amongst
• 19:46
  the elites of Europe before.
• 19:49
  This deck is
• 19:50
  depicting
• 19:51
  a tradition which goes from or
• 19:54
  through the neo
• 19:55
  into the Byzantine
• 19:57
  imperial elite, and from them to Italy.
• 20:01
  Man, it is, you know, no small then.
• 20:04
  Yep. Dealing with an order of
• 20:07
  learned
• 20:08
  so
• 20:09
  far above the popular grim was. Mh.
• 20:13
  And so to talk a little bit about
• 20:15
  kinda how they view reality structure. You talk
• 20:18
  about how their
• 20:20
  view the view that's expressed in this deck
• 20:22
  is that souls are rein
• 20:24
  and
• 20:25
  kind of the symbol of the acts is
• 20:27
  where they see the milky way crossing with
• 20:29
  the path of the Zodiac, and that's the
• 20:30
  poor between the worlds, this is a type
• 20:32
  of worldview or cosmology that definitely wasn't taught
• 20:36
  to the masses as it seems.
• 20:39
  Yeah. This emerges directly from or, so we're
• 20:42
  back in the eighth century
• 20:44
  Bc at least.
• 20:46
  And it's been
• 20:48
  picked up
• 20:50
  through figures like fe,
• 20:52
  P
• 20:53
  teacher.
• 20:54
  Plato, of course, and the neo plato philosophers
• 20:57
  after.
• 20:58
  So there's a continuous tradition there until I'd
• 21:01
  like the sixth century Ce.
• 21:04
  So it's, like 1200 years old tradition at
• 21:07
  this point. Right. Okay? And then there's an
• 21:10
  attempt by the Christian Amp emperor, you know,
• 21:12
  just any into to stamp this out. Not
• 21:15
  very successful.
• 21:16
  Because the byzantine
• 21:18
  elite and especially its civil service
• 21:21
  were thoroughly imbued with the values of hell.
• 21:25
  To enter the civil service, you had to
• 21:27
  have
• 21:28
  relevant number of years study of hell
• 21:31
  classical literature and philosophy.
• 21:34
  And with that, it's kind of, you know,
• 21:36
  in the kernel of it is pagan ism.
• 21:39
  You can't extract it out of it. If
• 21:42
  you're studying Plato, you have pagan
• 21:44
  built in, so to speak. Mh.
• 21:47
  So it perpetuated
• 21:49
  itself
• 21:50
  well into the fifteenth century, and you have
• 21:52
  major figures in the Byzantine court at this
• 21:56
  time. The imperial elite
• 21:58
  who are self declared pagans.
• 22:02
  You know? And again, this doesn't quite fit
• 22:03
  in with our church written history of the
• 22:07
  times.
• 22:08
  But nevertheless, that's that's how things fell out.
• 22:12
  Right. And you talk about, mit cult, which
• 22:15
  is something that I've had researchers
• 22:17
  dig up before, and they... Some suggest it's
• 22:19
  a thread that still continues in the background
• 22:22
  today. But
• 22:23
  to have these
• 22:26
  nods to a mit ray cult at this
• 22:29
  time depth. It is strange. I mean, this
• 22:30
  just what you're saying. This cult, and these
• 22:32
  I idea should've have been long gone by
• 22:34
  the fifteenth century.
• 22:36
  Yeah. They're were well alive, they had a
• 22:39
  huge revival in the tenth and eleventh century
• 22:42
  with people like Michael,
• 22:44
  who recovered much of the literature, but Again,
• 22:47
  our history lets us down, Greg, because, you
• 22:49
  know, we see people figures like Michael Sellers
• 22:52
  who recovered the Ka day in Oracle.
• 22:55
  As stand alone. We don't see them in
• 22:58
  context.
• 23:00
  Mike sellers has had teachers
• 23:02
  who
• 23:03
  ina his interest in these ancient texts and
• 23:07
  ideas, and and they had teachers, and, you
• 23:09
  know, the golden Thread runs back and fourth
• 23:12
  back into the past and forward
• 23:15
  into
• 23:16
  contemporary history. It's never broken. And I think
• 23:19
  there's 1 good reason why that's the case.
• 23:22
  The world
• 23:24
  that exists at the core of this system
• 23:27
  makes sense in a
• 23:30
  way in which doctor earth theology does not
• 23:33
  make sense. Mh k? It is an esoteric
• 23:38
  experiential
• 23:40
  approach to reality.
• 23:41
  So that for those of us who for
• 23:43
  instance work with energy, you do regression work,
• 23:47
  constellation work, whatever,
• 23:49
  The notion of rein
• 23:50
  is a very real 1. Mh.
• 23:53
  You experienced people who recover past life
• 23:56
  information.
• 23:57
  So, you know, you don't need a theological
• 24:00
  judgment about it. It becomes part of your
• 24:03
  experience.
• 24:04
  And the belief system coming out of or
• 24:07
  is rooted in real experience in this way.
• 24:10
  It's liberating
• 24:12
  because it has this many lives
• 24:14
  aspect to it,
• 24:16
  and it places the onus on your own
• 24:19
  moral development.
• 24:21
  Rather than obeying some these rules. Mh.
• 24:23
  K? So there's a dynamic element
• 24:26
  at the core of the belief system
• 24:29
  that perpetuate itself from year to year from
• 24:32
  Century to century. And even if it was
• 24:34
  lost, it would be recovered or recoverable.
• 24:38
  Right.
• 24:38
  Because that's the way things are. You know,
• 24:41
  Okay. Yes. And, you know, these ideas you're
• 24:44
  talking about now, very agnostic. And in regards
• 24:47
  to the deck, as agnostic piece, you say,
• 24:50
  in categorizing the dex cosmology as agnostic. We
• 24:53
  need to take care not to confuse this
• 24:54
  fact with the historically documented agnostic
• 24:58
  preoccupation with spiritual liberation. Nothing could be further
• 25:01
  from the worldview of the Nobles to design
• 25:03
  this deck. Yeah. And obviously, that's an important
• 25:06
  separation. I guess, what other aspects of na
• 25:08
  system do actually make it into the deck.
• 25:11
  Everything is there.
• 25:13
  Exactly. This this view that you should
• 25:16
  somehow
• 25:17
  clam out of the cycle of meta
• 25:21
  and, you know, a ascend to a higher
• 25:23
  plane.
• 25:24
  That is totally absent.
• 25:26
  This deck
• 25:28
  takes na
• 25:30
  and converts it into a mechanism,
• 25:33
  let... Or let's let's put it this way.
• 25:36
  This deck as a agnostic
• 25:39
  artifact em bog the idea that if the
• 25:42
  machinery of the universe runs in such a
• 25:44
  way that
• 25:46
  subsequent lives
• 25:48
  arise out of the way you worship,
• 25:52
  way you treat deities in this life, then
• 25:56
  you can start affecting the trajectory of your
• 25:58
  subsequent
• 26:00
  rein.
• 26:01
  K? Right.
• 26:03
  So this idea is taken directly out of
• 26:05
  Plato ph.
• 26:07
  You know, we're in the deities at is
• 26:08
  you worship in this life, you enter their
• 26:11
  train in... You enter their entourage
• 26:13
  upon death,
• 26:15
  and you travel with them, and then you
• 26:17
  kind of reenter.
• 26:18
  Okay? Now the key here is to reenter
• 26:22
  into a social circle that is suitable
• 26:26
  for objectives.
• 26:27
  And for these elite families, the objective is
• 26:30
  to reenter
• 26:31
  an elite family. Mh.
• 26:34
  Okay. So in this way, the ritual suggested
• 26:36
  within the deck is a way of controlling
• 26:39
  the trajectory of one's own meta.
• 26:42
  And this is where the notion of blood
• 26:44
  lines takes on a new and deeper meaning.
• 26:48
  Absolutely. That's so interesting because it's like, we
• 26:50
  always see the elite as
• 26:53
  into playing the long game. And these multi
• 26:56
  generational mindset and mainstream culture looks at and
• 26:59
  says well that makes no sense, You know,
• 27:01
  people, Yeah. Only live to be 70 80
• 27:03
  years old, They're not worried about what's going
• 27:05
  on for a 200 year game plan, but
• 27:08
  this context makes that
• 27:10
  seem plausible. And it justifies why that worldview
• 27:13
  would exist among the elite.
• 27:15
  Yeah. And if you look at the eth
• 27:17
  record around the world you find, you know,
• 27:20
  plenty of places where this is the way
• 27:22
  things are are managed.
• 27:23
  They take a lot of care with death
• 27:25
  ritual
• 27:26
  to try and ensure the subsequent rebirth of
• 27:29
  that, let's call it soul
• 27:32
  back into the family group or into the
• 27:35
  community or whatever and It kind of reaches
• 27:38
  a high point with the bud llama who
• 27:40
  of course, attempt
• 27:42
  multiple subsequent
• 27:44
  rebirth
• 27:45
  into
• 27:45
  equally spiritual positions and mona.
• 27:49
  K. They have a mechanism
• 27:51
  for running that process and for them validating
• 27:53
  that it's working.
• 27:55
  So it's actually the Western Esoteric system that's
• 27:59
  kind of lacking this.
• 28:01
  But clearly at an elite level, the awareness
• 28:03
  of it was still there.
• 28:05
  It is amazing. This is, like, exhibit a
• 28:08
  for the case that I've heard people trying
• 28:10
  to make for such a long time without
• 28:12
  having me real evidence or proof? I mean,
• 28:14
  this is
• 28:15
  no small thing. Yeah. And, I guess we
• 28:17
  should address
• 28:19
  dead on? Why is it called the game
• 28:20
  of Saturn?
• 28:23
  The figure of saturn per pervasive this deck
• 28:26
  here at every level.
• 28:28
  I've got a quote here. It's
• 28:30
  By pro in its plato theology says all
• 28:33
  Greek theology
• 28:34
  is the offspring of or mystical doctrine.
• 28:38
  And if you look at the Or, d,
• 28:41
  it starts out with Kronos, the great serpent.
• 28:46
  Gives birth to a egg.
• 28:48
  And from the egg, it splits apart to
• 28:51
  create the land and the sky and and
• 28:53
  within it is the figure of fe.
• 28:56
  Wound around by a large sharpen. So
• 28:59
  this is a very
• 29:01
  early
• 29:02
  component
• 29:03
  that situate Kronos at the most fundamental
• 29:06
  point of creation.
• 29:08
  K? And Kronos is saturn.
• 29:11
  Right.
• 29:12
  And for the carthaginian,
• 29:13
  he was
• 29:14
  Baal on.
• 29:16
  And in the bible,
• 29:18
  he appears as M.
• 29:21
  Okay? These are all same entity, but different
• 29:24
  aspects of it. So
• 29:26
  with this roots in the offer tradition, Kronos
• 29:29
  becomes the central player.
• 29:31
  He is the demi. He is the creator
• 29:34
  entity. So the Serpent or Draco form
• 29:38
  of the deity
• 29:39
  is the primal 1.
• 29:41
  Mh.
• 29:42
  Okay. That's why the game of saturn and
• 29:44
  then multiple cards within the deck.
• 29:48
  Kind of replay this
• 29:50
  this theme
• 29:51
  of the serpent that as saturn as the
• 29:53
  serpent as Ba on
• 29:56
  you know,
• 29:57
  saw whoever put this thing together had a
• 30:00
  very good grasp
• 30:01
  of
• 30:03
  mythology
• 30:03
  and the t and cosmology of various faith.
• 30:08
  That is so true. And along this line
• 30:10
  to quote you again, you say the dex
• 30:13
  theology embraces,
• 30:14
  no cosmology in its totality, but nevertheless
• 30:18
  discard liberation in favor of the positive
• 30:21
  embrace of the demi worldly rulers.
• 30:24
  Is this to say that there's a mindset
• 30:26
  within the fifteenth century elite that hey, Demi.
• 30:29
  I know you're the boss. We figured this
• 30:31
  out. So how can I get on your
• 30:32
  good side? How can we work out a
• 30:33
  deal? Is that kind the... I couldn't put
• 30:35
  it better at my sell Right.
• 30:40
  That's it. You got it.
• 30:42
  Wow.
• 30:43
  It seems so in line with
• 30:45
  suggestions today that the Elite have made a
• 30:47
  deal with the Dam to basically be the
• 30:49
  management class on the earthly plane to opt
• 30:52
  out of the rebirth cycle and stay in
• 30:54
  these positions maintain these blood lines, and in
• 30:57
  exchange have vast amounts of material wealth and
• 30:59
  power. I guess That's a worldview that's pretty
• 31:02
  aligned with this fifteenth century
• 31:04
  elite heir room and it's chain of custody,
• 31:07
  I guess.
• 31:08
  Yes. It's the... The horrible
• 31:10
  realization isn't it that those conspiracy theories have
• 31:13
  their roots in a real tradition? Mh.
• 31:17
  You know, that's the bottom line with this
• 31:19
  reading of the deck, this
• 31:22
  interpretation of the deck.
• 31:23
  Mh.
• 31:24
  It's hardly real.
• 31:27
  Right. And and that's kind of like, what
• 31:29
  I just think is so provocative about it.
• 31:31
  And you write about how they had this
• 31:33
  worldview that each person or soul coordinates with
• 31:36
  a star in the sky, and the deck
• 31:39
  contains references to a star could put angle,
• 31:42
  I guess is how it's... Something I've Star...
• 31:44
  Yeah. That's a star. I've never really here
• 31:46
  talked about. What do we know about this
• 31:48
  stars
• 31:48
  attributed characteristics. What are the references to this
• 31:51
  star mean to you?
• 31:53
  It's the most prolific
• 31:55
  star
• 31:56
  in the sky.
• 31:58
  Bar on.
• 32:01
  So if you wanna do the heaviest kind
• 32:04
  of so, imaginable.
• 32:06
  This is definitely 1 of the ingredients.
• 32:08
  The energies of this particular star.
• 32:12
  That's why it's there. That's why it's kind
• 32:14
  of highlighted
• 32:16
  in the deck.
• 32:18
  It's part of a brew.
• 32:21
  A dark brew.
• 32:23
  Well said. And and because it's a fixed
• 32:25
  star,
• 32:26
  whatever male
• 32:28
  intention you have,
• 32:30
  its energy will tend to fix it in
• 32:32
  place and prolong it's
• 32:35
  activity.
• 32:37
  And that's why the the fixed stars are
• 32:39
  important for that, and a prolific fixed star
• 32:42
  kinda has the double action of adding to
• 32:45
  the dark brew whilst maintaining its pervasive. It's
• 32:49
  its influence its effect on people. Mh.
• 32:53
  But I I wanna... Perhaps it's just worth
• 32:56
  worthwhile contextual
• 32:58
  what we set up to now, Greg. Because
• 33:01
  recent
• 33:03
  Eth demographic work has
• 33:05
  identified and opened out a phenomenal dark shamanism.
• 33:10
  And for years now,
• 33:12
  people especially in the west have been looking
• 33:14
  towards shamanism as this liberating force,
• 33:18
  you know, as is ecological conscious and and
• 33:20
  all these good things, and we've kind of
• 33:23
  neglected the fact that there's a complimentary
• 33:26
  Shamanism,
• 33:27
  which is correctly
• 33:29
  characterized as dark shamanism.
• 33:31
  At... But those who wanna follow this up,
• 33:33
  there's an excellent collection of academic essay called
• 33:36
  in darkness and secrecy by white head and
• 33:39
  right, and it very much
• 33:41
  concentrates on dark shamanism within the Amazon area,
• 33:45
  But the core of this is salt so,
• 33:49
  and a kinda of cosmological
• 33:51
  construct we can perhaps best described as a
• 33:54
  cosmology of pre prudential. Mh. And and the
• 33:58
  core of this is that the Cha opens
• 34:01
  themselves to possession by the most
• 34:04
  powerful
• 34:05
  predatory
• 34:07
  entity.
• 34:08
  That they can summon.
• 34:11
  And in that form, they either can go
• 34:13
  out of body to wreak havoc or they
• 34:16
  can command lesser entities to do their bidding.
• 34:19
  K?
• 34:20
  So this is a core eth demographic
• 34:23
  construct.
• 34:24
  Now the strange thing is that when we
• 34:27
  look at the card specifically 1 card called
• 34:30
  Ip,
• 34:31
  it shows a monk,
• 34:33
  with Dragon wings.
• 34:35
  Okay? And within the sequence of ritual cards
• 34:38
  within the deck,
• 34:40
  you see a series that are intended to
• 34:43
  induce possession by a Draco
• 34:46
  entity.
• 34:47
  Cheers.
• 34:48
  And that card
• 34:50
  actually depicts the monk
• 34:52
  totally possessed by the entity. So when there's
• 34:55
  different grades of possession, of course.
• 34:59
  You know, you can have
• 35:01
  whole variety, but complete possession means the total
• 35:04
  displacement of the persona.
• 35:06
  The person will have no memory whatsoever
• 35:09
  post
• 35:10
  of what they've done of what happened.
• 35:13
  The possession is complete. Mh. K?
• 35:16
  So in the context of dark shamanism,
• 35:19
  we're seeing a
• 35:21
  eth geographically attest
• 35:23
  process
• 35:24
  whereby dark Shaman open themselves to possession by
• 35:27
  these predatory
• 35:29
  entities and then use that power so to
• 35:32
  speak to wreak havoc of what whatever can
• 35:35
  they intend to do. Mh So that construct
• 35:39
  perfectly
• 35:40
  fits
• 35:41
  the imagery that we're dealing with.
• 35:43
  And the kind of uses
• 35:45
  that this
• 35:47
  Renaissance elite would have.
• 35:49
  Yes. It's just it's
• 35:51
  quite amazing. And you know there's a lot
• 35:52
  of people even today. We hear little nuggets
• 35:55
  of wisdom dropped by those who have
• 35:59
  kind of touch the fringes of elite circles
• 36:01
  or worked in certain industries like banking or
• 36:04
  politics at high levels, and they come out
• 36:06
  and say,
• 36:07
  You know, these people are possessed, and you're
• 36:09
  like, you know, you don't think of that
• 36:11
  literally, but that's a a term that is
• 36:13
  thrown around quite often when describing
• 36:15
  the way these people act and the way
• 36:18
  it is to... The way it feels to
• 36:19
  be around them.
• 36:21
  Exactly. And this is it. Now if we
• 36:22
  can only start connecting are, you know, eth
• 36:26
  demographic and historical
• 36:29
  information to the current situation, we can begin
• 36:31
  to illuminate some of these things for the
• 36:33
  first time.
• 36:34
  They start to make sense when you contextualize
• 36:37
  them, but you gotta get the right background
• 36:39
  in place in order to do that.
• 36:42
  Absolutely. And, you know, another element of that
• 36:45
  background is you say that the
• 36:48
  Ds world
• 36:49
  entirely planes the magically oriented motivations of the
• 36:53
  decks design and use. And Ds is a
• 36:56
  name that comes up a lot in your
• 36:57
  book. I don't hear it all that. Often
• 37:00
  outside of your book, but tell us about
• 37:02
  that family and
• 37:04
  their connection to this deck.
• 37:09
  Yeah, They kind of emerge out of obscurity
• 37:12
  in the, you know, tenth century or so.
• 37:15
  And there's various branches of this family, and
• 37:18
  and you're right They're obscure, I certainly didn't
• 37:20
  have any particular awareness of them when I
• 37:23
  started this project,
• 37:25
  But they In Italy, they came to be
• 37:27
  the rulers are of the city state of,
• 37:31
  and we're closely allied with Venice.
• 37:33
  And it's within that context that the deck
• 37:35
  was designed and created.
• 37:38
  Now it turns out that the Italian branches
• 37:40
  a cadet branch.
• 37:42
  Of the larger family
• 37:44
  in the Austro Hungarian area,
• 37:47
  the the Gu est,
• 37:50
  and the other Cadet branch of this family
• 37:52
  are the
• 37:54
  Hanover
• 37:56
  Monarchs.
• 37:58
  So
• 37:59
  let me put this in a historical context.
• 38:02
  I think something like,
• 38:04
  17 Century Mary d day of Mode medina,
• 38:07
  marry the Duke of York.
• 38:10
  And when he ascended to the throne of
• 38:12
  England,
• 38:13
  she became queen of England.
• 38:15
  Okay? And it was a short lived monarchy.
• 38:19
  But then
• 38:20
  There was an inter and then the Hanover
• 38:23
  Monarchs took over.
• 38:25
  And this is George the first second third,
• 38:28
  all of these people.
• 38:29
  Now, we're talking about arc of history,
• 38:33
  which leads from
• 38:35
  supremacy
• 38:36
  in the renaissance for about 300 years.
• 38:40
  And then kind of switches saddle.
• 38:43
  Okay?
• 38:44
  Just in time to catch the rise of
• 38:46
  the British empire.
• 38:48
  Mh.
• 38:49
  And at the end of that, the tail
• 38:51
  end of that,
• 38:53
  catches the start of the Usa.
• 38:56
  Right. And so the implication there is that
• 38:59
  there's maybe a network working within groups doesn't
• 39:02
  have the same allegiance as we might think.
• 39:05
  And, you know, when 1 empire
• 39:07
  declines in another rises, some of these
• 39:10
  figures or what we might call the Brotherhood
• 39:12
  of Saturn, they seem to emerge in these
• 39:15
  new empires as well as the collapsing ones.
• 39:18
  Yeah. So
• 39:20
  You have to put all the points of
• 39:21
  view together. You have to pile them together
• 39:24
  to make sense of these kind of patents.
• 39:27
  Because they... Historically they're so long lived.
• 39:30
  And this takes us right back to
• 39:33
  By
• 39:34
  again where this
• 39:36
  Pagan philosopher who
• 39:39
  introduced these ideas to Italy
• 39:41
  had a pagan school.
• 39:44
  Which taught 30, which taught
• 39:46
  ritual magic and was completely a pagan entity.
• 39:50
  K?
• 39:52
  So what I'm saying is there's a tradition
• 39:55
  of a ritual practice
• 39:58
  that was invented
• 40:00
  God knows when, was alive and well in
• 40:03
  fifteenth century by
• 40:05
  and is now captured within these cards and
• 40:08
  carried forward.
• 40:10
  And again, how come we have these cards?
• 40:13
  Where have they been for 300 years
• 40:15
  is a mystery?
• 40:17
  Yes. But they surface now, we kinda open
• 40:20
  them out now, and this is the story.
• 40:22
  They're telling us.
• 40:25
  It is amazing. And that is 1 of
• 40:27
  my questions for you is
• 40:29
  what other insights can we get from kinda
• 40:32
  tracing that chain of study. I mean, I
• 40:34
  know we know the early steps and we
• 40:36
  obviously know where it ended up in Milan,
• 40:38
  but are there other nodes or bullet points
• 40:41
  on that chain of custody that you find
• 40:43
  kinda curious or interesting?
• 40:46
  I'm really at a loss to fill in
• 40:48
  the gaps.
• 40:49
  It's completely con.
• 40:52
  Mh.
• 40:53
  And there's like 300 years where the deck
• 40:55
  is just invisible. I mean it just disappears.
• 40:58
  Based on certain marks, I mean, the deck
• 41:00
  was a grade, right, and then they printed
• 41:03
  the sheets.
• 41:05
  And then 1 set of sheets were painted.
• 41:08
  And delivered to person called Mara Sun
• 41:12
  venetian patricia.
• 41:14
  And
• 41:15
  A curious thing about the marks that were
• 41:18
  placed on the deck is that it identifies
• 41:20
  him.
• 41:21
  It identifies the fact that he was gay
• 41:23
  and it identifies the fact that almost certainly,
• 41:27
  the Fe were able to
• 41:30
  manipulate him borne him.
• 41:33
  Into betray Venice.
• 41:35
  Mh.
• 41:36
  So that the deck is like a payoff
• 41:39
  in a very important operation that ferrari ran
• 41:42
  against Venice,
• 41:44
  and it's also a reminder to him that
• 41:46
  at any time if he opens his mouth
• 41:49
  or
• 41:50
  stops cooperating.
• 41:51
  They've got enough on him to see him
• 41:53
  burn at the stake.
• 41:55
  So does that level of historical
• 41:58
  interpretation. Now, again, Mara Sun, who was he,
• 42:01
  who were it... Well, his mother's family, the
• 42:03
  V family.
• 42:04
  And the venue claim to be descendants of
• 42:07
  the Emperor Vale.
• 42:10
  Okay? And then you check out the emperor
• 42:12
  Vale, and it turns out is 1 of
• 42:14
  the child sacrificing
• 42:16
  emperors
• 42:18
  of late rome. Nice. He was notorious for
• 42:21
  it. Yeah.
• 42:22
  And that brings you a back again to
• 42:24
  the card in the deck showing the child
• 42:26
  over the fire. On what the heck is
• 42:28
  going on here.
• 42:31
  There's a disturbing aspect of this in in
• 42:34
  respect of the fact that all of the
• 42:36
  court cards, the named court cards, 9 of
• 42:38
  them.
• 42:39
  All have 1 thing in common. They depict
• 42:43
  figures
• 42:44
  related to the conception of Alexander, the great.
• 42:48
  Not to anything Alexander the great actually did,
• 42:51
  Mh. You know, which is what most people
• 42:53
  are interested in, but to his conception,
• 42:56
  And when you look into the Alexander Romance
• 42:59
  literature, there's 1 characteristic
• 43:02
  about his conception that stands out.
• 43:05
  His mother's intercourse with Ba.
• 43:08
  So the Alexander is like a demi guard,
• 43:11
  you know?
• 43:12
  And again, this is 1 of the connections
• 43:15
  that deeply woven into the texture of the
• 43:17
  dex imagery and symbolism.
• 43:20
  You know, connects saturn, Kronos,
• 43:22
  the Draco force and the Carthaginian god Ba
• 43:27
  Ox
• 43:28
  known for 1 thing or 1 thing alone.
• 43:31
  This is the sacrifice of small children milk.
• 43:33
  It was called, and it's from that word
• 43:36
  milk that we get the name M in
• 43:38
  the Bible.
• 43:39
  Wow.
• 43:40
  So we have these blind spots in the
• 43:43
  chain of custody of the deck. Can you
• 43:45
  maybe tell us how it got out of
• 43:48
  private hands and into the public sphere into
• 43:50
  a museum? Well
• 43:52
  let me just kinda touch on whatever I
• 43:55
  do know, which is very little. So it
• 43:57
  won't take long.
• 43:58
  Mara Sun died in Venice in the early
• 44:01
  sixteenth century,
• 44:03
  and all his effects were auction at that
• 44:05
  point.
• 44:07
  Now, there's a jump of, like 2 or
• 44:10
  300 years to a Milan family, the Marquis
• 44:14
  Ser.
• 44:16
  As far as I can held there's only
• 44:17
  1 connection between the Ser and the venice
• 44:20
  of the sixteenth century.
• 44:22
  There was 1 of the early members of
• 44:24
  Ser family 2 brothers, in fact, 1 became
• 44:28
  pope, the other became a notorious b,
• 44:31
  and then
• 44:32
  got promoted as a hit hitman for Francesco
• 44:36
  sports.
• 44:37
  So, you know, he was playing his trade,
• 44:40
  and obviously got into trouble and had to
• 44:43
  escape
• 44:44
  And then he's documented in various parts of
• 44:46
  Europe, you know, no doubt further enhancing his
• 44:49
  skill set. And at some point in the
• 44:51
  course of that, he got
• 44:54
  special
• 44:55
  recognition
• 44:56
  from Venice for services rendered
• 44:58
  with...
• 45:00
  I I don't wanna speculate
• 45:02
  on what they may have been, but it
• 45:04
  kind of en noble him.
• 45:06
  Wow. So that's the 1 connection. He would
• 45:09
  have been in venice about the time that
• 45:11
  the deck came on the market. It was
• 45:13
  auction.
• 45:15
  And as say the next thing is the
• 45:17
  deck turns up in the hands of the
• 45:19
  Marquis Ce baloney,
• 45:22
  dated about 18 30, there's a anti query
• 45:25
  count Chicken who examined the cards at that
• 45:29
  point. And saying they were in the hands
• 45:30
  of the Marquis ser balloon.
• 45:33
  And
• 45:34
  rolling forward from that point,
• 45:36
  a set of these cards were
• 45:39
  sent
• 45:40
  photographic images of the cards were set to
• 45:42
  the British museum, that'd in 19 09I
• 45:46
  think, and put on display there where Pamela
• 45:49
  Coleman Smith, the designer of the popular
• 45:52
  wait Smith Taro deck would have seen them.
• 45:56
  And its aspects of their imagery, which you
• 45:59
  now find in pretty well every taro deck
• 46:01
  in the world today.
• 46:03
  So kind of unconsciously
• 46:05
  propagated
• 46:07
  the imagery solar bus into pretty well. Everybody's
• 46:12
  taro tech. And that seems to be how
• 46:14
  magic works. Right? I mean, these influences, the
• 46:16
  power in them. They seem to kind of
• 46:19
  spread out kind of spider web out even
• 46:21
  if it's not obvious on the surface. That's
• 46:23
  kind of an interesting aspect.
• 46:25
  I think again, you know, from an esoteric
• 46:28
  point of view, we have to
• 46:30
  recognize
• 46:31
  that when we talk about these energies or
• 46:34
  powers,
• 46:35
  that are the subject of esoteric work.
• 46:38
  Not many people talk about agency
• 46:41
  in that context.
• 46:43
  You know, most of us think of energy
• 46:44
  is like the light switch. You switch it
• 46:46
  on, you switch it off. You know, it
• 46:48
  has rules. It basel the rules. But
• 46:51
  In a east esoteric sense, these energies have
• 46:53
  agency. They're pretty well like you or me
• 46:55
  in many respects,
• 46:57
  and that is the way in which
• 47:00
  the energies behind the deck would have been
• 47:02
  interpreted in the fifteenth century.
• 47:05
  Okay? It's it's not some
• 47:07
  background buzz of energy. Right. It's an agency
• 47:11
  work.
• 47:12
  Okay? So and
• 47:15
  that makes all the difference. If you start
• 47:17
  conceptual
• 47:18
  those energies working through history
• 47:21
  in terms of agency, then you have to
• 47:24
  rethink a lot of stuff.
• 47:26
  No doubt.
• 47:28
  Then,
• 47:30
  so just to to follow up with the
• 47:32
  the lineage of the cards. What's the
• 47:35
  end book end for the path these cards
• 47:37
  have taken?
• 47:39
  Okay. So
• 47:40
  around 19 88 or so a German
• 47:44
  or Austrian
• 47:45
  taro,
• 47:47
  got permission to photograph the cars and he
• 47:49
  made a a reproduction deck.
• 47:52
  And then
• 47:53
  what, 2009
• 47:55
  or so. The Italian state stepped in, Italian
• 48:00
  ministry of culture stepped in and bought the
• 48:03
  entire deck, I believe from the descendants of
• 48:06
  the Ser family,
• 48:08
  that is never stated. I believe that that's.
• 48:10
  And they bought it for 800000
• 48:13
  euro,
• 48:14
  and it's now in the b gallery in
• 48:17
  Milan.
• 48:18
  It's held there.
• 48:20
  K. And
• 48:21
  our imagery in the book and as you
• 48:23
  know, the scarlet imprint are about a start
• 48:26
  shipping a
• 48:27
  reproduction. Perfect.
• 48:29
  Reproduction of this deck, The imagery is being
• 48:31
  provided by the brow gallery to us.
• 48:34
  To make the book and the deck. Okay?
• 48:36
  So the that takes you right up to
• 48:38
  date.
• 48:39
  It's just... I love it, man. And it
• 48:41
  just to find this evidence of a continuity
• 48:44
  of elite power and a consistency of occult
• 48:46
  beliefs among their ranks. Is mind blowing. And
• 48:49
  it's really like what a conspiracy
• 48:52
  ent has been looking for for a long
• 48:54
  long time.
• 48:55
  Yeah I think you gotta get into the
• 48:57
  mindset, not just of the elite,
• 49:00
  but of what I call hardcore isa esoteric
• 49:03
  to get this stuff. You know?
• 49:05
  Yes.
• 49:06
  And
• 49:07
  on that subject,
• 49:08
  you know, you mentioned satan,
• 49:10
  a little bit. Everybody knows Plato doh by
• 49:12
  name, but it's really interesting because you talk
• 49:14
  about
• 49:15
  his philosophy really does have kind of a
• 49:18
  linkage to empowering
• 49:20
  the elite or justifying the elite power, and
• 49:23
  that threat isn't usually highlighted when you're discussing
• 49:26
  Plato in his philosophy, but that might be
• 49:28
  why he is such a household name and
• 49:31
  why he's kinda been held in such high
• 49:33
  regarded. Because as far as the a leader
• 49:35
  concerned, he provides a basis for
• 49:38
  why they are at the top and we're
• 49:40
  at the bottom.
• 49:41
  Yeah. And I think the whole way in
• 49:43
  which
• 49:44
  Plato those work has been handled or or
• 49:47
  treated
• 49:48
  and certainly by educational
• 49:50
  institutions has varied enormously
• 49:52
  there's like, you know, before the church, and
• 49:54
  after the church, you know? So
• 49:57
  in the ancient world, Plato those
• 50:00
  teachings where from a very early dates.
• 50:03
  You know, he has all these dialogues. There
• 50:05
  must be what, 30, 40 dialogues.
• 50:08
  People were coming up for ideal sequences in
• 50:11
  which to study these dialogues.
• 50:13
  Okay?
• 50:14
  But they always started with the same dialogue,
• 50:17
  A.
• 50:19
  Now why is that?
• 50:20
  A
• 50:22
  deals with 1 thing only
• 50:24
  and that is, a
• 50:26
  is a very
• 50:27
  rich kid
• 50:29
  who... His parents have died He doesn't actually
• 50:32
  have a clear sense of
• 50:34
  what's what. But he wants to make his
• 50:37
  mark on society and because of his wealth
• 50:39
  he's gonna enter the political process in Athens.
• 50:42
  Okay? So that... That's the scenario that a
• 50:46
  bai the dialogue sets up for us.
• 50:49
  In his
• 50:51
  discourse or his dialogue with socrates. Socrates is
• 50:54
  tempting to say to him. You're looking for
• 50:56
  self ag.
• 50:58
  But what about service?
• 51:01
  Okay? So
• 51:03
  the whole theme of the plato
• 51:05
  dialogues it They they touch on many things,
• 51:08
  you know, Ethics,
• 51:09
  theory of knowledge, you name it. But ultimately,
• 51:12
  it's how can an elite, govern society Just.
• 51:17
  This is the core issue of pla.
• 51:19
  And in order to be able to
• 51:22
  just
• 51:23
  run a society,
• 51:24
  You have to be entitled to do so.
• 51:27
  You have to be totally selfless, blah, blah
• 51:29
  blah. K? And part of that
• 51:32
  Plato those
• 51:33
  recommendations is that the elite should sacrifice or
• 51:36
  wealth and power. They shouldn't hold any property
• 51:39
  for instance.
• 51:40
  No money.
• 51:41
  They shouldn't inherit anything.
• 51:43
  They have to be solely dedicated to justice.
• 51:46
  And part of becoming just is to become
• 51:50
  enlightened
• 51:51
  in your person,
• 51:54
  selfless and enlightened. This is the plato ideal
• 51:57
  for the elite.
• 51:59
  Now you can see how far away we
• 52:01
  offer
• 52:02
  absolutely.
• 52:03
  Getting anywhere near that, but that was the
• 52:06
  inspiration there.
• 52:08
  And in order to
• 52:10
  project that kind of
• 52:12
  justice
• 52:13
  forward through the generations
• 52:15
  Plato elaborated this system of meta
• 52:19
  and spiritual internal growth
• 52:22
  so that you know, within the photon tradition,
• 52:25
  they had this phrase
• 52:26
  h,
• 52:28
  the the ill ones.
• 52:30
  People would actually seek to become ill in
• 52:34
  their inner nature. And therefore capable of
• 52:37
  dealing just,
• 52:39
  out of their very essence.
• 52:42
  And because they don't have these family ties,
• 52:44
  these wealth, this property,
• 52:47
  they just do watch right.
• 52:49
  Okay. This was the plato ideal.
• 52:52
  Now the esoteric aspects of that is that
• 52:54
  such an looming elite would also
• 52:57
  have the highest connection with the day it
• 52:59
  and so on. So they would drive the
• 53:02
  process of subsequent meta psychosis
• 53:05
  of rebirth if you like. Mh.
• 53:07
  Okay? So it become a self per
• 53:10
  mechanism.
• 53:11
  Now somewhere along the line, Greg.
• 53:15
  This idea of dropping
• 53:17
  wealth property and family ties and not having
• 53:20
  them to influence your justice.
• 53:23
  Got lost. I'd say so.
• 53:27
  And I think it got lost very early
• 53:29
  in human history.
• 53:31
  So we're living essentially with a dark platinum.
• 53:36
  It was not intended. I mean, as far
• 53:38
  as Plato doh Tam is concerned, the dam
• 53:40
  is a
• 53:42
  a deity who was filled with light
• 53:44
  is not a dark
• 53:46
  entity at all.
• 53:48
  He looks towards the source, you know, of
• 53:50
  everything.
• 53:51
  Plato called it. The good is. It's like
• 53:53
  an imp
• 53:56
  source
• 53:56
  and it it's he's filled with the beauty
• 53:58
  of that and turns and then creates after
• 54:01
  the manner of that.
• 54:03
  Now,
• 54:05
  This is like fourth fifth century Bce.
• 54:08
  And then by the time we get to
• 54:10
  the first and second centuries
• 54:12
  Bce, and the first and second century ce.
• 54:16
  This dam has now flipped over.
• 54:20
  He's become a dark entity, ignorant entity that
• 54:24
  refuses to acknowledge the source of his own
• 54:27
  power.
• 54:28
  And thinks that he is the ultimate
• 54:31
  in terms of creativity.
• 54:33
  Everything is behold to him and everything is
• 54:36
  owed to him.
• 54:38
  And this darken of the figure of the
• 54:40
  dam is a historical
• 54:42
  fact, which I don't think anyone has given
• 54:45
  an explanation of.
• 54:47
  Yeah. It's very curious.
• 54:49
  It's absolutely central to the understanding of how
• 54:53
  things got flipped over.
• 54:55
  Because from this point on, you know, you
• 54:57
  have agnostic cosmology
• 54:59
  all identify dark
• 55:02
  at the need to liberate yourself from him.
• 55:05
  And therefore that gives rise to a dark
• 55:08
  no,
• 55:09
  which is
• 55:10
  acknowledging the dark dam
• 55:12
  and working with him.
• 55:15
  K. Right. But this is a historical phenomenon.
• 55:19
  It it was certainly never like that in
• 55:21
  the original plato photon writing.
• 55:24
  I can't say 1 thing though, and maybe
• 55:26
  this will help to
• 55:27
  contextualize it is that
• 55:30
  we can't just look at plato though, or
• 55:32
  we cannot just look at offers
• 55:34
  you know, there's a whole range of theo
• 55:38
  like He theo, you know, the birth of
• 55:40
  all the different gods.
• 55:42
  And
• 55:43
  throughout the Mediterranean basin, you have a lot
• 55:46
  of different
• 55:47
  creation stories.
• 55:49
  K? Mh. So you get a very mixed
• 55:53
  bowl of starting points.
• 55:55
  And depending on the starting point, you take
• 55:57
  you end up in
• 55:58
  different place.
• 56:01
  Now
• 56:02
  for the were renaissance lead, their key influence
• 56:05
  if I'm right, it was it was George
• 56:07
  Gym.
• 56:09
  Better known as plato. Mh.
• 56:11
  And his conception was that he took a
• 56:14
  classical
• 56:15
  Greek or hell
• 56:17
  theo
• 56:19
  he says there's, you know, absolute 3 entities,
• 56:21
  you know, like a zoo poseidon and and
• 56:23
  and and he said her party
• 56:26
  And beneath them, you have a set of
• 56:29
  celestial
• 56:30
  deities,
• 56:31
  and a set of cath deities.
• 56:34
  And the canon deities these are ruled by
• 56:36
  Saturn,
• 56:37
  and they run the planet.
• 56:39
  Okay? They run this planet. Mh.
• 56:42
  So his
• 56:43
  again is is a little
• 56:45
  different from
• 56:47
  what Plato it originally set out.
• 56:50
  But it does just towards the p of
• 56:53
  saturn in the world.
• 56:56
  K? And that's why I take place on
• 56:58
  like the stepping up point.
• 57:00
  From ancient tradition into this what we call
• 57:03
  the modern world a pre modern world of
• 57:05
  the Renaissance.
• 57:06
  And that, that's why Saturn features so
• 57:09
  highly
• 57:11
  within subsequent Mob history, I think. Mh.
• 57:15
  Yeah. It is... It's so hard to get
• 57:16
  a real sense of why that polar opposite
• 57:21
  view would be taken
• 57:22
  on the
• 57:24
  d or just to say the creator of
• 57:26
  the material world. Like, it's also just hard
• 57:29
  to wrap your head around because this is
• 57:30
  an entity that
• 57:32
  Today, it's like we can't really see. We
• 57:35
  feel like we can't see it or we
• 57:36
  feel like we can't really get a handle
• 57:38
  on something that's so outside of ourself, but
• 57:41
  they seemed to
• 57:42
  find some clues to kinda draw conclusions on
• 57:45
  or to build a personality profile back in
• 57:47
  the day. And then for it to go
• 57:49
  the complete polar opposite way. It's just so
• 57:51
  curious.
• 57:53
  It is strange. And
• 57:56
  again, you know, it's it's like the answers
• 57:58
  are not gonna be found in
• 58:00
  digging through these theo.
• 58:04
  We have to think about our own
• 58:07
  specific
• 58:08
  situation
• 58:09
  now,
• 58:10
  and what priorities we have and what what
• 58:13
  we have to work on. I think the
• 58:15
  issue is centrally a moral issue. That we're
• 58:18
  faced with today.
• 58:19
  Mh. So whether you accept the existence of
• 58:22
  a dam or not is kind of beside
• 58:25
  the point,
• 58:26
  Mh. The energies that people work on or
• 58:29
  with in practice
• 58:31
  are of a much lower order.
• 58:35
  So that what we're faced with is a
• 58:37
  far localized issue. Mh.
• 58:39
  It's in my perspective,
• 58:42
  I see it as an inter interdimensional
• 58:44
  penetration of this reality by other realities. Wow.
• 58:48
  And a multitude
• 58:50
  multiple orders of beings.
• 58:53
  Okay?
• 58:54
  So
• 58:56
  in a sense, the issue is far more
• 58:57
  complicated, but it's it's far less theoretical.
• 59:02
  So coming from background of energy healing,
• 59:05
  you tend to get the extreme cases.
• 59:08
  I mean, it's like if you work in
• 59:10
  the accident and emergency award Friday night. Okay.
• 59:13
  Saturday night, you're gonna see
• 59:16
  extreme cases. And in sense energy healing also
• 59:20
  brings you
• 59:21
  confront you with pretty extreme cases.
• 59:24
  And from that, I draw the conclusion that
• 59:26
  we we have a say this
• 59:28
  into
• 59:29
  penetration of multiple
• 59:31
  dimensions.
• 59:32
  And the crossover
• 59:34
  on occasion of entities between these dimensions.
• 59:39
  And I think the anchoring is the fact
• 59:41
  that our our... The consciousness is in my
• 59:44
  perspective a field.
• 59:45
  You know, it's not a product of your
• 59:47
  neural activity. Right. It's a feel like,
• 59:50
  a thing which has a a family
• 59:53
  context. It has a community. It has historical
• 59:56
  context.
• 59:57
  It's much as though everything that Sa thought
• 59:59
  or done coexist at the same time, and
• 1:00:02
  that's the way we experience consciousness when we
• 1:00:05
  work with it. In energetic way. I'm thinking
• 1:00:08
  in terms of
• 1:00:10
  constellation therapy, of course. Mh. You know, you
• 1:00:13
  get complete strangers in the middle of the
• 1:00:15
  room. You put them in
• 1:00:17
  some positions to represent family members even if
• 1:00:19
  the family members are dead gone a hundred
• 1:00:22
  years ago, doesn't matter.
• 1:00:24
  Those people will start to manifest the thoughts
• 1:00:26
  behavior and feelings of the people they're representing
• 1:00:30
  even though they know nothing about them. Wow.
• 1:00:33
  So, you know, I mean, I would recommend
• 1:00:35
  anyone to go along to half a dozen
• 1:00:37
  sessions of constellation therapy and just try it
• 1:00:40
  out. It's gonna change your views of reality.
• 1:00:43
  That's than anything I know. Wow.
• 1:00:46
  So
• 1:00:47
  other cases where we have 1 on 1
• 1:00:49
  healing, you know, we have people who've deceased
• 1:00:52
  coming through to help in the healing process.
• 1:00:55
  Other times I've dealt with very very very
• 1:00:58
  dangerous and difficult
• 1:00:59
  entities that's to haunt people.
• 1:01:02
  Wow.
• 1:01:03
  A very abusive
• 1:01:05
  relationship, you know. You remember this film the
• 1:01:07
  entity.
• 1:01:08
  Yes.
• 1:01:10
  Some... Yeah, There's some very dark stuff going
• 1:01:13
  on. And there's some very bright stuff as
• 1:01:15
  well.
• 1:01:16
  You know, the role of higher order beings
• 1:01:19
  is not
• 1:01:21
  sufficiently taken account of in my experience in
• 1:01:24
  this conspiracy world. Mh. People are very much
• 1:01:27
  focused on docks,
• 1:01:29
  which is there. There's no doubt about it.
• 1:01:32
  It's dangerous. It's dark, but it's not the
• 1:01:35
  whole story. Right. And
• 1:01:37
  ability to cleanse and purify yourself and make
• 1:01:40
  connection with higher older beings is always an
• 1:01:43
  option. Mh.
• 1:01:45
  It's an option everyone. And it brings extraordinary
• 1:01:49
  confidence
• 1:01:50
  and strength.
• 1:01:52
  Yeah. That... I mean, it sounds so interesting
• 1:01:54
  and it's something I'd like to experience more
• 1:01:57
  and experiment with more, and it just seems
• 1:01:59
  like when you trace the
• 1:02:01
  evolution of Ideas and things that have been
• 1:02:04
  projected into the culture. It's like, this most
• 1:02:06
  recent round of
• 1:02:08
  material science of atheism. I mean, this is
• 1:02:11
  like, a deception that gets the culture even
• 1:02:14
  further away from
• 1:02:16
  not only the things you're talking about that
• 1:02:18
  just seem to be part of reality structure,
• 1:02:20
  but even the elite belief systems that are
• 1:02:22
  hidden behind the curtain, it's just another layer
• 1:02:24
  of separation, it seems to be like 1
• 1:02:27
  of the biggest perceptions of our time that
• 1:02:29
  any intelligent person would be a
• 1:02:32
  material atheist because that's the view that, you
• 1:02:34
  know, I kinda grew up with and adopted
• 1:02:36
  and then discard after a crazy psychedelic trip
• 1:02:39
  that showed that wasn't true, but it just
• 1:02:41
  seems like a major deception to inject that
• 1:02:44
  type of worldview because it's further and further
• 1:02:46
  away from the stuff we're talking about.
• 1:02:49
  Yeah. As well. Just as a an aside
• 1:02:52
  to that, I think you have to be
• 1:02:53
  careful as well when you deal with a
• 1:02:55
  lot of conspiracy stuff. It also tends to
• 1:02:58
  depress you. Sure. So it actually closes down
• 1:03:00
  your awareness,
• 1:03:01
  and it it it takes something away from
• 1:03:04
  you it's still something from you. Okay? So
• 1:03:07
  unless you're doing the compensatory work on the
• 1:03:09
  light side,
• 1:03:11
  unless you're engaged in serious
• 1:03:13
  meaningful work,
• 1:03:15
  you know, like you do something in the
• 1:03:16
  community, which is meaningful
• 1:03:19
  unless you're taken a lot of care with
• 1:03:21
  what you eat and drink.
• 1:03:23
  You're gonna get bored.
• 1:03:25
  You know, that the strong dark occurrence
• 1:03:28
  can carry most people along. Right. So you
• 1:03:32
  need to do a lot of recovery work
• 1:03:34
  on your often and people around you. I
• 1:03:36
  guess, I've been very fortunate, you know, I've
• 1:03:38
  had the opportunity to see some very light
• 1:03:41
  entities at work.
• 1:03:43
  And that is encouraged me to say these
• 1:03:45
  things to be honest.
• 1:03:46
  Sure. Yeah. That's something we definitely don't hear
• 1:03:49
  about that often? Can you give us, like,
• 1:03:51
  an example or or 2 of the light
• 1:03:53
  side of these entities?
• 1:03:55
  I'll tell you 1 very stressed story because,
• 1:03:58
  you know, baffled me as well. I was
• 1:04:01
  this was about 20 years ago. I was
• 1:04:02
  dragged the along to see this guy, Tom
• 1:04:04
  Canyon. I'd never heard of him. And he
• 1:04:07
  was apparently channel these These entities called the
• 1:04:10
  Hath,
• 1:04:12
  and my eyes were just like rolled up,
• 1:04:14
  you know.
• 1:04:16
  So I... I said okay. I went along
• 1:04:18
  with this gang, you know, We're sitting there
• 1:04:20
  in this, like,
• 1:04:21
  amp,
• 1:04:23
  and Tom's sitting on the chair down on
• 1:04:25
  the stage, you know? And he starts singing.
• 1:04:27
  Well, this guy has I know 10 octave
• 1:04:30
  taste to his voice. It is absolutely stunning,
• 1:04:33
  Beautiful.
• 1:04:34
  And This was going on. All of a
• 1:04:36
  sudden, I saw arranged in front of him,
• 1:04:40
  6 beautiful white columns of light.
• 1:04:45
  And they were like glittering, you know? And
• 1:04:46
  these were, like, 5 or 6 meters high.
• 1:04:50
  And know I was just like, whoa.
• 1:04:53
  Is wow. Was like an overlay on reality.
• 1:04:56
  That's a strange thing.
• 1:04:58
  And then these figures the these columns just
• 1:05:00
  drifted it out off the apron
• 1:05:03
  and through the audience and disappeared, you know?
• 1:05:06
  And laid on in in this...
• 1:05:09
  I it's not a performance, but whatever
• 1:05:12
  Tom Canyon is doing with these entities. Is
• 1:05:15
  apparently is getting advice and stuff.
• 1:05:17
  Somebody in the audience say, well, what did
• 1:05:19
  these hath look like and and Tom Me
• 1:05:22
  cell when they manifest, he says, you'll see
• 1:05:24
  them as tall white columns of light.
• 1:05:26
  And that's exactly what I saw over there.
• 1:05:29
  So
• 1:05:31
  Why I I was chosen to see these
• 1:05:32
  things. I don't know.
• 1:05:34
  I am a bit sensitive to energies, but
• 1:05:37
  there they were.
• 1:05:38
  There they were.
• 1:05:40
  Wow. And the advice they give, you know,
• 1:05:42
  I checked Tom stuff every now and again.
• 1:05:44
  It... It's all about ascension. It's all about,
• 1:05:46
  you know, cleansing,
• 1:05:48
  purifying the channels and so on and, you
• 1:05:50
  know, it's all good clean stuff. There's no
• 1:05:52
  doubt about it,
• 1:05:54
  but if these higher order beings are indeed
• 1:05:57
  there, and it looks like to me as
• 1:05:58
  though they are, then there's some restrictions on
• 1:06:01
  what they can do.
• 1:06:03
  On this plane. Mh. And I would suggest
• 1:06:07
  that each person's
• 1:06:08
  moral or ethical behavior is the core or
• 1:06:11
  the limiting factor.
• 1:06:15
  And I remember, Martin luther King said, you
• 1:06:17
  know, the
• 1:06:18
  trajectory the off of the universe is long,
• 1:06:21
  he says, but it bends towards justice.
• 1:06:24
  And
• 1:06:25
  that's what I see in the constellation therapy
• 1:06:28
  that we do that
• 1:06:29
  the core disturbances in reality arise from some
• 1:06:33
  form of injustice.
• 1:06:35
  And when you
• 1:06:37
  expedite that injustice When you correct it,
• 1:06:40
  you harmon the fields.
• 1:06:44
  So there's an ongoing task that energy healer
• 1:06:47
  are are embarked upon
• 1:06:49
  on a personal on a community level. We're
• 1:06:53
  trying to create that justice. We're trying to
• 1:06:56
  eradicate
• 1:06:57
  the cramp and the squeezes and everything within
• 1:07:00
  the fields of consciousness
• 1:07:02
  arising from injustice.
• 1:07:04
  And it's injustice
• 1:07:06
  seems to me the core characteristic of the
• 1:07:09
  elite.
• 1:07:10
  Agreed and such a noble goal that you're
• 1:07:13
  working with.
• 1:07:14
  So this is the work. Greg, You know,
• 1:07:16
  you you you get on, and you do
• 1:07:18
  the work and and in doing that work,
• 1:07:20
  you rise above the fear and
• 1:07:24
  pessimism
• 1:07:26
  arising from the darkness.
• 1:07:28
  Well said, yeah. You can only stare into
• 1:07:30
  the abyss so long without doing some of
• 1:07:33
  the other side. Yeah. You're gonna fall in
• 1:07:34
  if you look longer.
• 1:07:37
  Right On. So to to bring this back
• 1:07:39
  to the deck a little bit and to
• 1:07:40
  talk about
• 1:07:41
  the deck, in terms of the card types
• 1:07:44
  of a taro deck. Like, we have the
• 1:07:46
  Trump cards, the suit cards, the court cards.
• 1:07:48
  Yep. If we're gonna talk about the Trump
• 1:07:50
  cards. These are the ones in in this
• 1:07:52
  deck that seem to be mainly military men
• 1:07:54
  and armor with weapons,
• 1:07:56
  some recognizable names, some not scenes ranging from
• 1:08:00
  unrecognizable ritual to that baby held over the
• 1:08:03
  fire.
• 1:08:04
  And you mentioned that of the known names
• 1:08:07
  and soldiers in the Trump's, most of them
• 1:08:09
  refer to players and Roman battles in North
• 1:08:11
  Africa,
• 1:08:12
  and that's interesting. What is that a clue
• 1:08:15
  Is there more connective tissue to these figures
• 1:08:17
  that you could tell us about?
• 1:08:19
  Well, what it looks like is that the
• 1:08:22
  additional image imagery on those cards
• 1:08:25
  allows you to tie down a set of
• 1:08:28
  Roman generals
• 1:08:29
  who were embarked on 1 or other of
• 1:08:32
  the so called P wars.
• 1:08:34
  These were 3 great wars that Roam port
• 1:08:36
  with Cart.
• 1:08:38
  And so the theme again brings you back
• 1:08:41
  to North Africa to Cart
• 1:08:43
  to the reigning deity of Cart, Ba,
• 1:08:46
  and to the most characteristic
• 1:08:49
  form of sacrifice that was practiced
• 1:08:51
  in Cart.
• 1:08:53
  Which is the child emulation.
• 1:08:57
  Right. So is this... Is it almost like
• 1:08:59
  who's who of
• 1:09:01
  people who had these beliefs is that the
• 1:09:03
  assumption about the actual people on the cards?
• 1:09:06
  Yeah. I don't think so. I think it's
• 1:09:07
  just pointing towards North Africa just like the
• 1:09:10
  Cards relating to the court cards relating to
• 1:09:14
  Alexander's
• 1:09:15
  conception.
• 1:09:16
  In themselves, most of them are fairly insignificant
• 1:09:19
  figures,
• 1:09:20
  But when you put them together, they're
• 1:09:23
  identifiable as the conception story,
• 1:09:25
  which is
• 1:09:27
  Alexander's conception by Ball On. Of North Africa,
• 1:09:30
  Cart again.
• 1:09:32
  Mh.
• 1:09:33
  Okay. So it very strongly
• 1:09:35
  reinforces
• 1:09:36
  And and this is really... It's actually a
• 1:09:38
  very curious feature of the deck that it
• 1:09:41
  should point in such a forceful way.
• 1:09:44
  To a entity or a being
• 1:09:47
  who's
• 1:09:48
  really is totally
• 1:09:50
  identified with child sacrificed.
• 1:09:51
  Yeah.
• 1:09:52
  I mean a very dark
• 1:09:54
  aspect of the decks imagery. Mh.
• 1:09:57
  I would say so... And when it comes
• 1:09:59
  to the suit cards, what would you tell
• 1:10:02
  us that's interesting about those?
• 1:10:04
  The main thing about the suit cards is
• 1:10:06
  that we have an opportunity,
• 1:10:09
  I've talking to the audience out
• 1:10:11
  to to to put your thinking caps on
• 1:10:14
  and see if we can break the code.
• 1:10:17
  Almost all the suit cards have alluded
• 1:10:20
  decryption up to now.
• 1:10:22
  It's also worth noting that the
• 1:10:24
  deck in question is the first, I suppose
• 1:10:27
  and for the next 500 years, the only
• 1:10:29
  deck feature fully illustrated suit cards. Is that
• 1:10:32
  right?
• 1:10:33
  That's right. And, you know, it simply isn't
• 1:10:35
  needed for the game of Tu.
• 1:10:38
  You know, you just have normal suit cards
• 1:10:40
  for any game of cards. No. They've used
• 1:10:43
  the 40 suit cards
• 1:10:45
  to convey.
• 1:10:47
  But I don't know what they did. They...
• 1:10:49
  They convey a very strange set of themes.
• 1:10:52
  There's a couple of them that we have
• 1:10:53
  managed to get a grip off.
• 1:10:56
  And if I can say it, I would
• 1:10:58
  like to say that they seem to
• 1:11:01
  demonstrate a patent of either homo erotic
• 1:11:05
  activity,
• 1:11:06
  and possibly
• 1:11:08
  ritual
• 1:11:09
  homo
• 1:11:10
  activity.
• 1:11:12
  Okay?
• 1:11:13
  So again,
• 1:11:15
  the ritual activity, the deck em body's a
• 1:11:18
  number of ritual techniques
• 1:11:21
  and substances it uses salmon and
• 1:11:24
  menstrual fluid as part of the rituals. Mh.
• 1:11:28
  And this is fairly typical of certainly
• 1:11:31
  Renaissance magic and, you know, it's
• 1:11:34
  echoes through the ages.
• 1:11:36
  So, yeah, some of the cards embody this
• 1:11:39
  type of information. So it's almost as though
• 1:11:42
  the 2 cards have been used to amplify
• 1:11:46
  certain aspects
• 1:11:47
  of the decks ritual practice.
• 1:11:50
  But we haven't managed to decode most of
• 1:11:53
  them yet.
• 1:11:55
  And,
• 1:11:56
  you know, you mentioned in the book that
• 1:11:58
  1 of the images that kinda
• 1:12:01
  comes up in these is con people. And
• 1:12:03
  I was wondering, are those
• 1:12:05
  positions of the con people on the cards
• 1:12:08
  consistent in any way with what you described
• 1:12:10
  a little bit ago, that sort of channel.
• 1:12:12
  You know, you put people in certain positions
• 1:12:14
  and they can start embody characteristics of the
• 1:12:16
  dead. Are those con images in any way
• 1:12:19
  consistent with what you know about that practice?
• 1:12:23
  It's a
• 1:12:24
  this is a very complicated issue now. I
• 1:12:27
  what we're dealing with is multiple levels of
• 1:12:30
  encryption.
• 1:12:31
  And let me give you an example. There's
• 1:12:33
  a number of the Trump cards which
• 1:12:37
  have roman numerals and a name, and the
• 1:12:40
  name is meaningless.
• 1:12:42
  Okay? But if you con coordinate
• 1:12:45
  the Roman numerals and the name
• 1:12:47
  and treat them all as a name as
• 1:12:50
  characters.
• 1:12:52
  You can then separate them out
• 1:12:55
  like an ana.
• 1:12:57
  And what you have is a number of
• 1:12:59
  2 or 3 word elements.
• 1:13:03
  And those elements can then be translated
• 1:13:05
  into full words use system of encoding called
• 1:13:09
  sig.
• 1:13:10
  And just a few weeks ago, we found
• 1:13:12
  that the V manuscript,
• 1:13:15
  They had suggested that the V manuscripts
• 1:13:19
  eligibility up to now was because it had
• 1:13:21
  been encoded using Ci.
• 1:13:23
  Now Ci was a
• 1:13:26
  standard form of
• 1:13:28
  abbreviation developed in Rome,
• 1:13:30
  so that you take the first and last
• 1:13:32
  letter of the word or the first middle
• 1:13:34
  and last letter, and con coordinate them. So
• 1:13:38
  you have an effect the form of shorthand.
• 1:13:41
  So if you take an expression,
• 1:13:44
  you can shrink it, you know, you can
• 1:13:46
  condense it into these 2, 3 elements,
• 1:13:50
  and then you can jumble them together.
• 1:13:52
  So that you hide the meaning.
• 1:13:55
  Okay. This is 1 level of encryption. Mh.
• 1:13:59
  Another level of encryption is you just alluded
• 1:14:02
  to the fact that some of the figures
• 1:14:04
  have very distorted shape.
• 1:14:07
  It may be that they represent
• 1:14:10
  and I'm not sure of this Hebrew
• 1:14:12
  characters.
• 1:14:14
  And a hebrew characters would give you a
• 1:14:16
  name and a number.
• 1:14:19
  Now
• 1:14:20
  The reason why it could be Hebrew is
• 1:14:22
  that almost universally in the fifteenth century, Hebrew
• 1:14:26
  was accepted as a sacred language.
• 1:14:31
  So
• 1:14:32
  even in a deck like this, which
• 1:14:34
  seems to be wholly pagan.
• 1:14:37
  Is possible that they used Hebrew as another
• 1:14:39
  level of encryption. And what we're dealing with
• 1:14:42
  therefore is multiple levels of encryption.
• 1:14:45
  And it's... This is the next task
• 1:14:48
  so to speak in relation to the deck.
• 1:14:50
  It needs crypt analysis.
• 1:14:53
  And I wanna
• 1:14:54
  mention that in the context of the fifteenth
• 1:14:56
  century,
• 1:14:58
  crypto lithography
• 1:14:59
  was a very advanced art. Mh.
• 1:15:02
  Okay? And especially when you take
• 1:15:05
  words
• 1:15:06
  and you take
• 1:15:08
  images
• 1:15:09
  and you can cross them over each other.
• 1:15:12
  So that some words appear as images as
• 1:15:15
  we suggested with the con figures,
• 1:15:18
  and some images and symbols are converted into
• 1:15:21
  words, which we get with sig. Mh.
• 1:15:25
  Okay. So
• 1:15:27
  we're we're facing a very interesting task at
• 1:15:30
  this point. Right, which is
• 1:15:32
  the next stage is a crypto graphical
• 1:15:35
  analysis
• 1:15:36
  of the deck. And I've started making notes
• 1:15:39
  towards that.
• 1:15:41
  And I don't know how far are it.
• 1:15:42
  The there's some other factors which people probably
• 1:15:45
  should be aware of.
• 1:15:47
  There's a form of encryption whereby
• 1:15:50
  using an image,
• 1:15:52
  you distort its
• 1:15:55
  proportions
• 1:15:56
  to carry an additional weight of meaning.
• 1:15:59
  So for instance, there's a figure holding a
• 1:16:02
  child over a fire. Right? Mh.
• 1:16:05
  But the child is huge in comparison to
• 1:16:07
  the small camp fire. It's held over.
• 1:16:10
  There's a disproportionate there.
• 1:16:12
  Right?
• 1:16:13
  So the question therefore is
• 1:16:16
  is the designer alluding to child sacrifice, which
• 1:16:20
  seems to be the obvious
• 1:16:23
  explanation
• 1:16:23
  or is he through the use of proportion
• 1:16:26
  suggesting
• 1:16:27
  that the actual the child is not a
• 1:16:29
  real physical child?
• 1:16:32
  In other words, is it a h humongous.
• 1:16:36
  And the whole science of the h humongous
• 1:16:38
  was big stuff in the fifteenth century.
• 1:16:41
  So typically,
• 1:16:43
  they would have perceived for instance sperm
• 1:16:46
  as Hu.
• 1:16:48
  Okay.
• 1:16:49
  Self sufficient to turn into a figure.
• 1:16:53
  Okay? So there's a whole rim of magical
• 1:16:56
  text dealing with the conversion of, or the
• 1:17:00
  creation of Ham.
• 1:17:03
  Okay. So can
• 1:17:05
  you know, there's there's some levels of this
• 1:17:07
  deck. We need to understand that it's a
• 1:17:10
  multi layered
• 1:17:12
  structure.
• 1:17:13
  It's carrying a huge weight of meaning.
• 1:17:16
  Mh.
• 1:17:18
  Let me let me just mention this a
• 1:17:20
  very famous professor actually pointed it out to
• 1:17:23
  me. If you look on 1 of the
• 1:17:25
  cards, it's called Bo.
• 1:17:27
  As shows this like Crave fig knee,
• 1:17:30
  holding a shield in front of him,
• 1:17:32
  and the shield depicts the sun
• 1:17:35
  coat of arms,
• 1:17:36
  and there's light had golden band across it.
• 1:17:39
  Now,
• 1:17:41
  if you focus in and in and in
• 1:17:43
  on this card until you got a massive
• 1:17:46
  blow up of the corners of this gold
• 1:17:49
  band. You'll see that it's actually demonic fella
• 1:17:51
  ratio that's being depicted.
• 1:17:54
  Yikes.
• 1:17:56
  Okay. So again, now you're
• 1:18:00
  there's a number of artists
• 1:18:02
  Dick moves, the like the hem of clothing
• 1:18:06
  seems to have some figures
• 1:18:08
  in it. And it's only on extreme
• 1:18:11
  magnification.
• 1:18:11
  You start to recognize, oh, maybe these are
• 1:18:15
  some alphabet. I'm not sure which alphabet.
• 1:18:18
  So
• 1:18:20
  The process of Renaissance artists and encoding
• 1:18:24
  information
• 1:18:25
  in this way. It's a bit like the
• 1:18:27
  micro dot in modern, you know, espionage.
• 1:18:30
  Mh.
• 1:18:31
  It placed the micro dot on on on
• 1:18:33
  a page, you know, as a full stop.
• 1:18:36
  And unless you know it's there and where
• 1:18:37
  to find it. You're never gonna see it.
• 1:18:39
  Well, the renaissance artists doing the same thing
• 1:18:42
  with mini.
• 1:18:44
  Wow.
• 1:18:46
  Wow.
• 1:18:47
  So to sum up, we're dealing with multiple
• 1:18:49
  levels of encryption, which take images and turn
• 1:18:53
  them into letters and letters into images, and
• 1:18:55
  sometimes they use proportion, sometimes use mini
• 1:18:59
  punctuation, and sometimes
• 1:19:01
  contextual
• 1:19:02
  to per convey a message.
• 1:19:06
  Obviously, it's very deep, and it's really tough
• 1:19:09
  to unpack. I mean, that just makes what
• 1:19:11
  you've done, all that more fascinating. And I
• 1:19:14
  guess to focus in on another card that
• 1:19:17
  apparently is of
• 1:19:19
  key interest would be the queen of cups
• 1:19:21
  because it has the
• 1:19:23
  references to human sacrifice. Like, tell us a
• 1:19:25
  little bit about the details of that particular
• 1:19:28
  card.
• 1:19:29
  There's there's 2 cards.
• 1:19:32
  1 is called Olympia,
• 1:19:34
  and 1 is called Poly center. Okay.
• 1:19:38
  And these 2 cards work in tandem with
• 1:19:40
  each other.
• 1:19:41
  They both
• 1:19:43
  depict queens.
• 1:19:45
  1 of them is sat in front of,
• 1:19:46
  like a cup with a serpent coming out
• 1:19:48
  of it.
• 1:19:50
  And the other 1 is showing a more
• 1:19:52
  mature figure.
• 1:19:53
  Now,
• 1:19:54
  Olympia was
• 1:19:56
  Alexander, the great mother.
• 1:19:59
  Okay. So she's responsible
• 1:20:01
  in only the Romance
• 1:20:02
  literature, it's her who has intercourse with the
• 1:20:05
  God ba on in the form of a
• 1:20:08
  dragon
• 1:20:09
  to give birth to Alexander.
• 1:20:12
  But in her maiden persona, she was known
• 1:20:15
  as Paula center.
• 1:20:17
  And as Poly center, she was notorious for
• 1:20:20
  her
• 1:20:21
  probably dion
• 1:20:23
  worship.
• 1:20:24
  You know, it's like wild ecstatic snake cult.
• 1:20:29
  Okay. So that is there.
• 1:20:31
  Now
• 1:20:33
  Olympia
• 1:20:34
  was
• 1:20:35
  the head of
• 1:20:36
  or a zion of the house of Ep.
• 1:20:40
  And her ancestors would be achilles.
• 1:20:45
  And
• 1:20:46
  achilles
• 1:20:47
  died in the Trojan war. Right? And
• 1:20:51
  they took a Trojan princess
• 1:20:53
  paula center and sacrificed her over his grave.
• 1:20:59
  So again, there's there's like this trans
• 1:21:02
  generational connectivity being suggested. You have Olympia. You
• 1:21:06
  have a maiden persona Poly center, and you
• 1:21:08
  have Helena is another of the court cards.
• 1:21:11
  Well, Helena is obviously Helen of troy.
• 1:21:14
  And that pulls poly center in her wake.
• 1:21:18
  To a act of human sacrifice
• 1:21:21
  again.
• 1:21:24
  Again, so here's another level of encryption whereby
• 1:21:28
  using
• 1:21:29
  association, historical
• 1:21:30
  association of names or literary
• 1:21:33
  association of names?
• 1:21:34
  You can suggest this trans generational connectivity. Mh.
• 1:21:39
  Now why is troy significant? You know, this
• 1:21:41
  is came up when I talked to Gordon.
• 1:21:44
  I didn't answer it properly. Let me give
• 1:21:45
  you a better answer.
• 1:21:47
  Greg. Sure. Troy is significant because in Str
• 1:21:51
  geography,
• 1:21:53
  he describes the area around Troy it's called
• 1:21:55
  the T,
• 1:21:57
  as the realm or the region of the
• 1:22:00
  op,
• 1:22:02
  the serpent born. Mh.
• 1:22:04
  Okay? And the name of the tribe is
• 1:22:07
  the Az.
• 1:22:09
  And
• 1:22:10
  for those who are up to date with
• 1:22:13
  their knowledge of Isa esoteric, as a, of
• 1:22:16
  course is the name of Andrew Chu
• 1:22:18
  great text of
• 1:22:20
  somatic craft.
• 1:22:21
  Okay? His grim is called the Az. So
• 1:22:24
  the connection to the Op
• 1:22:27
  and to the T
• 1:22:28
  also exists in the Easter esoteric tradition.
• 1:22:31
  So I just just fill that out a.
• 1:22:35
  Sure.
• 1:22:36
  Jeez. I mean, yeah, you gotta study so
• 1:22:38
  much to kinda put these pieces together and
• 1:22:42
  you know, this does bring us right into
• 1:22:44
  the court cards because the court cards to
• 1:22:46
  me are some of the most fast and
• 1:22:47
  write in this nexus that you're discussing because,
• 1:22:50
  you know, as you said,
• 1:22:52
  they are names on the cards that, like,
• 1:22:54
  figures it almost exclusively relate to Alexander The
• 1:22:57
  great, but not his real triumphs and historical
• 1:23:00
  accomplishments. It all seems to be this
• 1:23:02
  Alexander Romance literature. This idea that
• 1:23:05
  he is from a lineage of a hybrid
• 1:23:08
  blood line of a serpent dragon entity and
• 1:23:10
  This strange idea
• 1:23:12
  does come up in a lot of stories
• 1:23:14
  of many royal blood lines. Right?
• 1:23:17
  It doesn't indeed judge. Pervasive in the ancient
• 1:23:20
  world,
• 1:23:21
  and you you see it in modern or
• 1:23:23
  medieval Europe, early medieval Europe with the marrow
• 1:23:27
  engines,
• 1:23:27
  you know, this this,
• 1:23:29
  you know, strange kind of
• 1:23:32
  sea dragon
• 1:23:33
  as the
• 1:23:34
  ancestor of the Merrill engine dynasty.
• 1:23:37
  Of course, the merrill engines are closely tied
• 1:23:40
  up with all the temp treasure mysteries.
• 1:23:43
  And, you know, all that stuff.
• 1:23:45
  Right. I'm not gonna get into that stuff.
• 1:23:51
  Yeah. But, I mean, also you list... Several,
• 1:23:53
  like, I I really wanna dig in deep
• 1:23:55
  in the future into all these different little
• 1:23:58
  threads because to think that there could be
• 1:24:01
  any truth to this kind of thing. In
• 1:24:03
  any way, shape or form, obviously, it seems
• 1:24:05
  completely
• 1:24:07
  fantastical
• 1:24:08
  today, but it's like
• 1:24:10
  is there any way in which there could
• 1:24:12
  be a core of truth to that idea?
• 1:24:13
  Like you talked about
• 1:24:15
  spiritual ratio. Is it possible that the elite
• 1:24:17
  are off offspring
• 1:24:19
  from a time when the gods mated it
• 1:24:21
  with man in some way through some rituals
• 1:24:24
  or is it just all, like, self con
• 1:24:27
  pop in circumstance?
• 1:24:30
  Well,
• 1:24:31
  from an energy worker perspective,
• 1:24:34
  the inter relation of these species,
• 1:24:39
  certainly
• 1:24:40
  occurs
• 1:24:41
  in the healing context. I mean, people report
• 1:24:46
  instances
• 1:24:48
  of this crossover.
• 1:24:50
  I documented Wong and it's available for anyone
• 1:24:54
  who wants to read it. It was in
• 1:24:55
  the Para psychology.
• 1:24:57
  Sorry. Para anthropology Journal,
• 1:25:00
  and I called it lord of the flies,
• 1:25:02
  or
• 1:25:03
  And it was a particular
• 1:25:05
  case I I started to deal with,
• 1:25:08
  and it got heavier and heavier, and I
• 1:25:10
  then passed it off somebody.
• 1:25:12
  Lot more capable
• 1:25:13
  than myself.
• 1:25:14
  But essentially, as we cleanse this person energetically,
• 1:25:19
  they started to recover memories of having been
• 1:25:22
  sacrificed
• 1:25:23
  in a previous life,
• 1:25:25
  and
• 1:25:27
  As part of that sacrifice, they had been
• 1:25:29
  pledged to a set of entities. Damn. Parasitic
• 1:25:34
  entities. Right?
• 1:25:35
  And it was those entities which in this
• 1:25:37
  life were reestablish
• 1:25:40
  their rights.
• 1:25:44
  Okay? So
• 1:25:46
  because those entities are not
• 1:25:49
  constrained in the way we are with our
• 1:25:50
  life cycle.
• 1:25:52
  And are like forgetting at the end of
• 1:25:53
  our life cycle. So like we start a
• 1:25:56
  fresh each time hey. I'm here for the
• 1:25:58
  first time,
• 1:26:00
  And those entities say, well, no actually. You're
• 1:26:03
  pledged.
• 1:26:04
  So
• 1:26:06
  let me put this in... As blunt away
• 1:26:09
  as I can,
• 1:26:10
  know you're not free, your lunch.
• 1:26:14
  Okay.
• 1:26:15
  For certain entities and certain class of healing
• 1:26:19
  issues that we have to deal with?
• 1:26:21
  There's the problem of an assumed ownership?
• 1:26:25
  Which if the person doesn't start to recognize
• 1:26:29
  the trans
• 1:26:30
  generational
• 1:26:31
  nature of their dilemma, they cannot break free
• 1:26:34
  of it.
• 1:26:35
  Wow.
• 1:26:36
  Yeah. It's important that you you get hold
• 1:26:38
  of your ethical
• 1:26:41
  position in this lifetime. Mh. Okay?
• 1:26:44
  And if you refuse to acknowledge the breadth
• 1:26:48
  of your
• 1:26:50
  responsibilities
• 1:26:50
  and and and connectivity
• 1:26:53
  in community and family and the recurrence of
• 1:26:56
  these patents
• 1:26:57
  again and again from life to life. You
• 1:26:59
  can get un mesh in a very dark
• 1:27:02
  bundle. To say the least? Yes. It's difficult
• 1:27:04
  to un unravel unless you you start, you
• 1:27:07
  know, say, okay. Let's accept first of all,
• 1:27:10
  that these things exist. You need a broader
• 1:27:12
  vision to free yourself from it.
• 1:27:15
  Yeah. That's just another layer of that deception
• 1:27:18
  to take us out of all this context
• 1:27:20
  because we we have no frame of reference,
• 1:27:22
  no way to orient ourselves if we don't
• 1:27:25
  even know the situation we're in. And I
• 1:27:27
  guess, for people listening,
• 1:27:29
  what would you say would be
• 1:27:31
  potential clues that people might have experienced in
• 1:27:35
  their life
• 1:27:37
  that might speak to
• 1:27:39
  that pledging. Or or if they are pledged
• 1:27:42
  or who they might be pledged to. Are
• 1:27:44
  there things a person can look at to
• 1:27:46
  examine their own life and try to get
• 1:27:47
  a handle on this kind of stuff that
• 1:27:49
  seems so foreign.
• 1:27:51
  Yeah.
• 1:27:53
  Normally, you know, will have surfaced in in
• 1:27:55
  a number of ways, you know?
• 1:27:57
  You need to look at addictions.
• 1:28:01
  You did look at stuff where you're driven
• 1:28:03
  rather than driving,
• 1:28:06
  obsession Yeah. It's often the characteristic of entity
• 1:28:10
  attachment that, you know... There's different layers of
• 1:28:13
  possession, as I said earlier, like, it starts
• 1:28:15
  with, like
• 1:28:16
  infestation. And that's when
• 1:28:19
  you have a lot of accidents, things going
• 1:28:21
  wrong in your life.
• 1:28:23
  You know, loss of money, loss of inheritance
• 1:28:26
  as this kind of stuff.
• 1:28:27
  And from there, it kinda of works up
• 1:28:30
  to
• 1:28:32
  well call obsession
• 1:28:34
  where you
• 1:28:36
  become literally obsessed with certain things, you may
• 1:28:39
  become addicted,
• 1:28:40
  and that then can work up to the
• 1:28:42
  level of what we would call oppression.
• 1:28:45
  And these people who work wake up with
• 1:28:47
  scratches and bruises on their body,
• 1:28:50
  you know, this, like, stuff flying at them.
• 1:28:52
  We had cases where people trying to connect
• 1:28:55
  them to a healer.
• 1:28:57
  And like every time they call that Healer,
• 1:28:59
  the phones engage, the He calls them, they
• 1:29:03
  can never get through. So you get this
• 1:29:05
  interference to hold the person in place.
• 1:29:08
  K? And then the fourth level is possession
• 1:29:11
  where people actually get taken over.
• 1:29:13
  By entities. So, you know, there's 4 signs
• 1:29:16
  for layers in this.
• 1:29:19
  And
• 1:29:19
  a more casual level perhaps is
• 1:29:23
  sexual pre prediction in dreams.
• 1:29:27
  That's another
• 1:29:28
  sign that, you know, if that becomes a
• 1:29:31
  persistent pattern,
• 1:29:33
  You got a problem.
• 1:29:36
  Wow.
• 1:29:37
  Wow. I mean, there there is a history
• 1:29:38
  of people of calling addiction or indulge is
• 1:29:42
  to call them, like, bad humorous or something
• 1:29:44
  to that effect? Yeah.
• 1:29:46
  I don't wanna suggest that everything is always
• 1:29:49
  caused
• 1:29:50
  by some entities. It's not the case. These
• 1:29:53
  are rare cases, but they do happen.
• 1:29:56
  I really don't wanna suggest like, we can
• 1:29:58
  explain everything like this. Is just not like
• 1:30:00
  that. Sure. No. The psychological
• 1:30:03
  has its place, you know, personality,
• 1:30:06
  You know, we all have phases in our
• 1:30:07
  lives when we do a lot of stupid
• 1:30:09
  stuff.
• 1:30:11
  True. You know?
• 1:30:12
  Guilty. So all of this stuff is going
• 1:30:14
  on, but, occasionally, you get people who are,
• 1:30:17
  like in desperate straits.
• 1:30:19
  And 1 case I had in
• 1:30:22
  It's disturbing, but I'll mention it. This was
• 1:30:25
  a very fit active young woman and then
• 1:30:27
  all of a sudden, you know, she started
• 1:30:29
  getting attacked at night.
• 1:30:31
  In her dreams.
• 1:30:33
  And
• 1:30:34
  was was raping her as bouncing her off
• 1:30:36
  the walls. This was obviously happening on an
• 1:30:39
  level.
• 1:30:40
  As she was taken to a psychiatrist to
• 1:30:43
  a psychiatric clinic to a cardiologist
• 1:30:45
  to
• 1:30:46
  neuro psychiatrist to the sleep clinic.
• 1:30:49
  I mean, they tried everything,
• 1:30:51
  and it just went on and on. And
• 1:30:54
  she came to me and I I just
• 1:30:55
  realized this is way outside of Marty. You
• 1:30:58
  know, like 20 years off, still going on.
• 1:31:01
  Maybe 567
• 1:31:03
  times a month at least.
• 1:31:05
  So medical
• 1:31:07
  profession as such had totally exhausted.
• 1:31:10
  That they had found nothing wrong with her.
• 1:31:13
  But thing is still going on. I sent
• 1:31:16
  it to a, much more advanced healer.
• 1:31:19
  And the first thing that hap and there's
• 1:31:21
  this entity turned to the healer and said
• 1:31:23
  you you get involved in this, I'm gonna
• 1:31:25
  kill you.
• 1:31:27
  So this is where, you know, it kind
• 1:31:30
  of
• 1:31:30
  You hit a wall then. Okay. So what
• 1:31:32
  is it that this person needs to do
• 1:31:35
  in themselves?
• 1:31:38
  To begin the process of unraveling and this
• 1:31:40
  is why I was saying earlier, you know?
• 1:31:42
  In a sense, you have to evolve
• 1:31:45
  you have to evolve morally and quickly
• 1:31:47
  in your world to deal with these things.
• 1:31:50
  Mh.
• 1:31:52
  So I would suggest if if the darkness
• 1:31:54
  has any role in life, it it's it
• 1:31:57
  helps us to evolve quickly. Well, said, probably
• 1:32:00
  left to ourselves. We... You know, we just
• 1:32:02
  hang out.
• 1:32:05
  That's good, you know? It's the classic ignorance
• 1:32:08
  is bliss kind of
• 1:32:10
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:32:11
  Isn't it just you know. Mh. But when
• 1:32:13
  we, like, confront the dark side in life,
• 1:32:16
  We're forced to clarify
• 1:32:18
  our own situation, our own posture
• 1:32:21
  in relation to it, and that is spiritually
• 1:32:24
  evolutionary.
• 1:32:25
  For ourselves. So I don't offer that as
• 1:32:27
  a justification. I just say, as a matter
• 1:32:29
  of fact, it seems to work like that.
• 1:32:32
  Mh.
• 1:32:33
  Well, I am just so fascinated with these,
• 1:32:35
  I guess we could call them, like, the
• 1:32:37
  mechanisms of magic or these aspects to reality
• 1:32:41
  structure
• 1:32:42
  And I guess I would ask, in terms
• 1:32:44
  of
• 1:32:45
  being pledged to
• 1:32:47
  dark entities,
• 1:32:49
  is there a way in which you know,
• 1:32:51
  over the years, the elite have maintained and
• 1:32:54
  probably fleshed out these
• 1:32:57
  rituals. Is there a way that they could,
• 1:33:00
  possibly
• 1:33:02
  in mass, do some type of ritual that
• 1:33:05
  dedicate a large swath of people to dark
• 1:33:09
  entities.
• 1:33:10
  Yeah, I think you know, that that is
• 1:33:12
  exactly a description of modern west,
• 1:33:16
  society and culture and things like.
• 1:33:20
  We're, you know, from 09:11 to you name
• 1:33:23
  it. We're just hit with a wave of
• 1:33:26
  negativity.
• 1:33:28
  Wow. Wow. I mean, and it's everything. If
• 1:33:31
  these entities feed on negativity,
• 1:33:33
  my god, they must be having a feast.
• 1:33:37
  Yeah. It's a real sm boy out there.
• 1:33:40
  That's it.
• 1:33:41
  Jeez.
• 1:33:42
  So I mean, I... Just to to re
• 1:33:45
  touch on the idea of blood lines having
• 1:33:48
  some type of serpent dragon Rep.
• 1:33:52
  Origin You you mentioned the Mayor engines. You
• 1:33:54
  also talk about in the book, the first
• 1:33:56
  King of Athens, the Yeah. Cr cops, they
• 1:33:59
  were considered to be half serpent, Also a
• 1:34:01
  lot of coat of arms and crest for
• 1:34:03
  these families. You'll see dragons and serpents, and
• 1:34:06
  it's always the
• 1:34:08
  1 type of animal. You know? It's very
• 1:34:09
  interesting that it always comes down to reptile
• 1:34:12
  and not beetles or birds or
• 1:34:15
  mammals or... I mean, Rep
• 1:34:18
  themes are just so pervasive and it is
• 1:34:20
  really interesting that you have these cards that
• 1:34:22
  are hundreds of years old, and these elite
• 1:34:25
  methodologies are even older, and then we have
• 1:34:26
  David Ike saying that the elite and these
• 1:34:29
  royal blood lines are actually rep till in
• 1:34:31
  modern times, it's like, through all of history,
• 1:34:34
  this has been a theme, and we just
• 1:34:36
  look the other way, I guess. So we...
• 1:34:37
  It's just too much to deal with.
• 1:34:39
  Yeah. I I guess it's Your question is
• 1:34:42
  the nature of the interaction between ourselves and
• 1:34:45
  these entities. Right? Right. Yeah. I do see
• 1:34:48
  them as as to an extent lying behind
• 1:34:52
  god forms.
• 1:34:53
  Mh.
• 1:34:54
  It's almost like the prime evil form of
• 1:34:57
  deity is
• 1:34:58
  the dragon.
• 1:34:59
  Right.
• 1:35:01
  Okay? So that is the way these entities
• 1:35:03
  would present themselves to us on a psychic
• 1:35:06
  level.
• 1:35:07
  And they represent a raw source of power,
• 1:35:11
  and that's their attraction
• 1:35:13
  for people who are drawn to power,
• 1:35:16
  these entities are their, you know, best friends.
• 1:35:20
  They promise them everything.
• 1:35:23
  And to have that power
• 1:35:24
  in yourself,
• 1:35:26
  or to have that entity generate your own
• 1:35:29
  con
• 1:35:30
  energy, you know,
• 1:35:32
  activated,
• 1:35:33
  is gonna make you extremely powerful. Mh.
• 1:35:36
  But there's like a borderline
• 1:35:38
  between being activated and being possessed.
• 1:35:41
  And I I think more what you're getting
• 1:35:43
  at, for the elite is that they actually
• 1:35:46
  allow possession. Yes.
• 1:35:48
  A dark ritual
• 1:35:49
  creates a...
• 1:35:52
  Energetic
• 1:35:54
  space
• 1:35:55
  for possession to take place.
• 1:35:57
  K. So ritual generates
• 1:35:59
  a
• 1:36:01
  form of space, which is neither objective nor
• 1:36:04
  subjective.
• 1:36:05
  And again, this is clear in the eth
• 1:36:07
  demographic record where
• 1:36:10
  anthropologists of of attended rituals.
• 1:36:13
  And there's been like normal rules of gravity
• 1:36:17
  and
• 1:36:17
  you know, the... Like, corpses is getting up
• 1:36:19
  and walking, you know? They experience these things.
• 1:36:22
  It's in the eth demographic record.
• 1:36:25
  But it, like, falls a foul of our
• 1:36:27
  sharp distinction between subjective and objective.
• 1:36:30
  You know, if it's so weird, it must
• 1:36:32
  be psychological.
• 1:36:33
  Right? Yes. But but actually,
• 1:36:36
  ritual space is a different kind of space.
• 1:36:39
  It's like ex excluded from the bodies of
• 1:36:41
  the ritual,
• 1:36:42
  and we see this again in constellation therapy
• 1:36:45
  where a group of people
• 1:36:48
  representing a family
• 1:36:50
  constellation,
• 1:36:51
  Even if as say the members along dead
• 1:36:53
  and gone doesn't matter,
• 1:36:54
  brings into being an energy feel which you
• 1:36:57
  can experience and feel over there.
• 1:37:00
  And within that field,
• 1:37:02
  the boundaries of time and space kinda get
• 1:37:05
  very fuzzy.
• 1:37:07
  So that the past can live again.
• 1:37:12
  So it is a feature of ritual to
• 1:37:13
  create these these kind of am ambivalent
• 1:37:16
  crossover spaces. And that that... That's what makes
• 1:37:19
  them so efficacious. Mh. For esoteric.
• 1:37:23
  Mh.
• 1:37:25
  So in those ritual spaces, you can make
• 1:37:27
  the connections to whichever entities your intention is
• 1:37:31
  the navigator so to speak.
• 1:37:33
  Gotcha. So that's really important to note because,
• 1:37:36
  you know, I've been interested in getting into
• 1:37:38
  magic, but, you know, as Gordon says, be
• 1:37:41
  careful because it can ruin your life and
• 1:37:43
  I'm like, well, my life's going pretty good
• 1:37:44
  right now. It's actually... Like I feel like
• 1:37:46
  I got a lottery ticket with with life
• 1:37:48
  right now. So I'm like, I don't know
• 1:37:50
  how much of this I wanna get into.
• 1:37:51
  But, you know, if you're... I guess, if
• 1:37:52
  you're morally
• 1:37:54
  aligned the positive in your
• 1:37:56
  motivations, you're going to attract the more positive
• 1:37:59
  entities rather than the negative.
• 1:38:01
  Well, just to anything, which is meaningful.
• 1:38:04
  In a community sense like healing work,
• 1:38:08
  and you naturally align yourself with all those
• 1:38:11
  higher order beings
• 1:38:13
  who are
• 1:38:14
  purposefully
• 1:38:15
  supporting that type of work.
• 1:38:17
  K. You don't even need a ritual.
• 1:38:20
  Fair enough. They're there for you.
• 1:38:22
  You know, because high order beings are by
• 1:38:25
  their nature, purposeful,
• 1:38:27
  ethical
• 1:38:28
  entities. It only requires that you align yourself
• 1:38:31
  with that.
• 1:38:33
  Mh.
• 1:38:35
  Okay. If you need to do light rituals
• 1:38:38
  fine. I mean, it's good, you know, you'll
• 1:38:40
  have that connectivity.
• 1:38:42
  I say I saw those entities on Tom
• 1:38:44
  Canyon stage, you know, his singing was enough
• 1:38:47
  to bring them
• 1:38:49
  into his presence. Mh. So I I don't
• 1:38:52
  doubt that they exist.
• 1:38:53
  It's it's not necessary for me to do
• 1:38:56
  rituals to call them.
• 1:38:58
  I mean fair enough.
• 1:39:00
  I just concentrate on the Heal work On
• 1:39:02
  there there.
• 1:39:04
  Yeah. Because that's the nature.
• 1:39:06
  And that would be a question for you
• 1:39:08
  too is, like, for people who have never
• 1:39:10
  experienced this kind of stuff, and maybe I've
• 1:39:12
  been listening to this show for a while.
• 1:39:14
  We talked to these magical guests and they
• 1:39:16
  talk about quite a few things, and maybe
• 1:39:19
  to some listeners, it all seems abstract because
• 1:39:21
  they don't have a lot of personal experience
• 1:39:23
  or have I've never seen an entity or
• 1:39:24
  anything like that. What would you suggest
• 1:39:27
  being an energy worker
• 1:39:29
  as the first steps to actually
• 1:39:33
  sensing that there is something to all this
• 1:39:35
  in a personal way.
• 1:39:37
  Yeah. I mean, you can
• 1:39:38
  go along and and and witness a constellation
• 1:39:41
  therapy for instance.
• 1:39:44
  That will give you all the information you
• 1:39:46
  need to know about the creation of energy
• 1:39:48
  fields and what happens within them. Mh. You
• 1:39:51
  can go and get the
• 1:39:53
  standard rei key initiation, you know?
• 1:39:56
  Rei is a beautiful healing energy. It's immediately
• 1:39:59
  useful.
• 1:40:00
  You can heal anyone yourself.
• 1:40:03
  Cats dogs, the neighbors, whatever.
• 1:40:05
  It's a no brainer, but it's a real
• 1:40:08
  powerful healing current.
• 1:40:10
  You know, with what a comments I made
• 1:40:12
  earlier about agency, it's a natural connection to
• 1:40:15
  higher order of being. Mh. So those 2
• 1:40:19
  easy peasy steps
• 1:40:21
  will take your a long way down the
• 1:40:22
  road, But first, you have to have the
• 1:40:24
  clear intention to find meaning in your life.
• 1:40:28
  Mh. Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot
• 1:40:30
  of sense. You gotta seek it out. A
• 1:40:32
  lot of people can sit here with their
• 1:40:33
  arms crossed and say, well, I don't feel
• 1:40:35
  anything. I don't see anything. It's like, we'll,
• 1:40:37
  have you tried. Have you really sought out
• 1:40:39
  these Yeah. Experts and teachers that might be
• 1:40:42
  able to kinda pry that door open for
• 1:40:44
  you. If you haven't, you really don't have
• 1:40:45
  much of a leg to stand on.
• 1:40:47
  Not just that the teachers can't help you
• 1:40:49
  unless you have a positive intent. Mh.
• 1:40:52
  To create meaning
• 1:40:55
  in life in your life, in the life
• 1:40:57
  of the people around you. That's the driver.
• 1:41:01
  It's an ethical driver.
• 1:41:03
  Fair enough. And so 1 other aspect that
• 1:41:06
  comes up in the book a lot that
• 1:41:07
  is something that I never earlier here talked
• 1:41:09
  about is the practice of self fashion. And
• 1:41:13
  I thought that was kind of interesting, Like,
• 1:41:14
  kind of post to invoke certain things perhaps?
• 1:41:17
  Like, how do we see that aspect
• 1:41:20
  used among the elite or in these cards.
• 1:41:25
  That's a difficult question to answer.
• 1:41:29
  I think the idea of the self fashion
• 1:41:31
  is that it's the way in which people
• 1:41:34
  adapt themselves to the society that they find
• 1:41:37
  themselves in.
• 1:41:38
  And that's both a survival mechanism for sure,
• 1:41:42
  but it can also become a very limiting
• 1:41:45
  posture to adopt unless you're careful.
• 1:41:48
  So
• 1:41:49
  I think with
• 1:41:50
  on self fashion, which is, like the context
• 1:41:53
  for that concept,
• 1:41:54
  it's the
• 1:41:56
  decision to adopt a certain style
• 1:41:59
  and posture
• 1:42:01
  in life.
• 1:42:02
  Okay.
• 1:42:03
  And
• 1:42:04
  the posture and style that we see amongst
• 1:42:07
  those elites
• 1:42:08
  was a very self serving 1. We have
• 1:42:10
  to say that. The Renaissance courts were
• 1:42:14
  difficult,
• 1:42:15
  highly competitive
• 1:42:17
  places.
• 1:42:18
  For instance,
• 1:42:20
  Nicola, the third day est
• 1:42:22
  had children from
• 1:42:24
  12:13
• 1:42:25
  different women.
• 1:42:26
  And so every 1 of them thought of
• 1:42:29
  themselves as a rightful heir. Mh.
• 1:42:32
  So you can imagine the competition and the
• 1:42:35
  violence that arose from that.
• 1:42:38
  So the self fashion in the Renaissance world
• 1:42:41
  was very much 1 geared towards survival in
• 1:42:44
  a very unruly
• 1:42:47
  competitive, difficult, dangerous
• 1:42:49
  court environment.
• 1:42:51
  K? It is the posture of somebody who's
• 1:42:54
  saying I'm kind of invincible.
• 1:42:57
  And I I think, you know, that is
• 1:42:59
  the page cards of the solar basket
• 1:43:03
  deck beautifully
• 1:43:05
  suggests the style and po
• 1:43:07
  of this, like, renaissance self fashion.
• 1:43:10
  Mh.
• 1:43:11
  Well, that does big another kind of out
• 1:43:14
  there speculative question, which, you know, I tend
• 1:43:17
  to ask. And I guess it would be...
• 1:43:19
  Like, because you mentioned these elite having kids
• 1:43:21
  with so many different women
• 1:43:23
  Is it possible
• 1:43:24
  if we also add in the context that
• 1:43:26
  they've made some dark pact with the demi
• 1:43:29
  and the Arch icons to be the management
• 1:43:31
  class of the earthly plane and kind of
• 1:43:34
  the servants of these dark forces.
• 1:43:36
  Is it possible that we see situations where
• 1:43:40
  people have maybe fallen off that Elite family
• 1:43:44
  tree as the thing spreads out and gets
• 1:43:46
  more complex and hard to hold together, especially
• 1:43:48
  with them having sex with so many different
• 1:43:50
  women and having off offspring all over the
• 1:43:52
  place, is it possible that some residue
• 1:43:55
  from this pact, you know, we talked about
• 1:43:57
  the idea being pledged to certain entities. Is
• 1:43:59
  it possible that someone finds themselves 4 or
• 1:44:01
  5 generations removed. They don't even know they're
• 1:44:04
  attached to any royal blood line or anything,
• 1:44:06
  deep down in that family tree. And yet
• 1:44:09
  they find themselves
• 1:44:10
  pledged in some type of contractor,
• 1:44:12
  they find that kind of residue attached to
• 1:44:14
  them themselves.
• 1:44:17
  Absolutely.
• 1:44:19
  Absolutely.
• 1:44:20
  Because if you like step through the mirror,
• 1:44:22
  You know, instead of looking at this from
• 1:44:24
  the point of view of history.
• 1:44:26
  You step through the mirror into the reverse
• 1:44:29
  world.
• 1:44:30
  Where those entities have their being their presence.
• 1:44:35
  They view
• 1:44:36
  time in a different way. Yeah.
• 1:44:39
  You know, they're not really concerned about the
• 1:44:41
  ins and outs of of our deaths and
• 1:44:44
  rebirth.
• 1:44:45
  For them there's a continuity
• 1:44:47
  this concept
• 1:44:48
  probably of soul whatever that means,
• 1:44:52
  has more meaning for them than it does
• 1:44:54
  for us. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:44:57
  Okay? So
• 1:44:58
  they
• 1:44:59
  exist as
• 1:45:01
  potential personalities
• 1:45:03
  in every
• 1:45:04
  generation.
• 1:45:06
  Behind the mirror.
• 1:45:08
  Okay. And certain people in their lives feel
• 1:45:11
  imp to make a connection with them.
• 1:45:14
  Even though they can't explain that drive.
• 1:45:17
  They feel
• 1:45:18
  imp to make a connection with for instance
• 1:45:21
  power.
• 1:45:22
  Or with some dark force.
• 1:45:25
  Damn. There's like a magnet,
• 1:45:28
  a drawing
• 1:45:30
  energy of these beings, these entities, which is
• 1:45:33
  like,
• 1:45:34
  wholly strange and familiar at the same time.
• 1:45:37
  Propelling but attractive.
• 1:45:40
  Mh.
• 1:45:41
  It's like any of the dracula movies you've
• 1:45:43
  watched.
• 1:45:45
  You know is like the thing in the
• 1:45:46
  micro chasm is this right there.
• 1:45:49
  So I believe it functions in that way.
• 1:45:52
  It doesn't require
• 1:45:54
  everyone in a generation, but it will choose
• 1:45:57
  people.
• 1:45:58
  And seek to attract them.
• 1:46:01
  Know, into its grip, so to speak, but
• 1:46:03
  at the same time promising.
• 1:46:06
  So
• 1:46:07
  These entities live as potential as part of
• 1:46:11
  the power structure.
• 1:46:13
  At at any time they can call on
• 1:46:15
  any number of people who are
• 1:46:17
  so
• 1:46:18
  attracted to wealth and power that they'll do
• 1:46:21
  anything for that. There's never any shortage of
• 1:46:24
  candidates
• 1:46:26
  And we've all been kind of conditioned to
• 1:46:28
  seek out wealth and power to some degree.
• 1:46:30
  I mean, that's kind of capitalism in a
• 1:46:32
  nutshell.
• 1:46:33
  It is exactly.
• 1:46:35
  Convenient.
• 1:46:36
  It's very convenient. Neo liberal
• 1:46:38
  to the core. Wow. Well, Man, I I
• 1:46:42
  just love this. I feel like I could
• 1:46:43
  do it all day, but I gotta let
• 1:46:44
  you go sometime. And I just really enjoyed
• 1:46:47
  the book and the conversation. It's broken down
• 1:46:50
  quite well, but it still requires so much
• 1:46:52
  historical context. And a lot of the players
• 1:46:54
  were pretty new to me. So it is
• 1:46:56
  just a great book that unlocks so many
• 1:46:58
  new threads and peek behind the curtain during
• 1:47:00
  that era of the Italian renaissance, and I
• 1:47:02
  think there's just so much to see behind
• 1:47:04
  it. So
• 1:47:05
  great work. And, you know, before, I let
• 1:47:09
  you go ahead I did wanna also ask
• 1:47:10
  you because you are an energy worker, and
• 1:47:12
  that's the expertise you have. Did that come
• 1:47:15
  into play at all when you were studying
• 1:47:16
  the deck when you put your hands on
• 1:47:17
  this thing. We're talking about the energy of
• 1:47:19
  it? I mean, did you experience that firsthand?
• 1:47:23
  Yeah. And a number of times, I I
• 1:47:25
  had a huge energy coming through, Greg. I
• 1:47:28
  mean, I was, like, paralyzed for, like, 4
• 1:47:30
  days. It was so intense.
• 1:47:33
  And none of the energy workers around me
• 1:47:35
  could help could move it, you know, 1
• 1:47:37
  of them tried, you know, and and they
• 1:47:39
  almost fainted They had to go out of
• 1:47:41
  the room was that intense. So
• 1:47:43
  I wasn't aware that something was driving this,
• 1:47:46
  and the way the clues came to help
• 1:47:48
  me break this code.
• 1:47:50
  Sometimes really strange, you know.
• 1:47:53
  Right. I mean, I... I'm not a great
• 1:47:55
  classic scholar or something for god's sakes. I
• 1:47:58
  study philosophy. Okay. University, but I didn't study
• 1:48:01
  ancient philosophy.
• 1:48:03
  Man. We could've fooled me. Yeah.
• 1:48:06
  Sometimes I I just felt like I was
• 1:48:08
  being led by the nose, you know?
• 1:48:10
  Sure. Stick your face here, look at this,
• 1:48:12
  Read that, read this,
• 1:48:14
  put 2 and 2 together. Okay. Let's move
• 1:48:16
  on. This, you know, As
• 1:48:18
  and and this was the results and don't
• 1:48:20
  ask me why this is manifested
• 1:48:23
  at this time.
• 1:48:25
  I don't know.
• 1:48:27
  Yeah. Like you mentioned before we really started
• 1:48:29
  recording that the story seems to want to
• 1:48:31
  be told at this particular moment. Absolutely.
• 1:48:34
  It's on it's it's a big energy
• 1:48:37
  behind this.
• 1:48:38
  Fascinating.
• 1:48:39
  So also as we're wrapping vince up, can
• 1:48:41
  you remind... Remind the people where to get
• 1:48:44
  the book where to check out your website
• 1:48:45
  and any of the other work you're doing
• 1:48:47
  that people might wanna follow up on. I'm
• 1:48:48
  sure they're very intrigued right now.
• 1:48:51
  The go to people are scarlet in imprint,
• 1:48:54
  who I worked with on this project and
• 1:48:56
  they've done a superb job in designing the
• 1:48:58
  book.
• 1:49:00
  And in in their general curator
• 1:49:02
  of this whole process. It's been excellent. Mh.
• 1:49:05
  Been a pleasure to work with them. So
• 1:49:06
  scarlet imprint dot com.
• 1:49:08
  There's the go to place.
• 1:49:10
  The deck of cards, perfect
• 1:49:12
  reproduction for the first time in 500 years
• 1:49:15
  with the Image imagery coming from the B
• 1:49:17
  gallery itself is just coming online. They'll start
• 1:49:20
  shipping in 10 days or so.
• 1:49:23
  Some of the work I've done on ritual
• 1:49:25
  on various aspects of
• 1:49:28
  entities is in the para anthropology Journal.
• 1:49:32
  Peer review journal, and I put it on
• 1:49:34
  my academia dot edu you page.
• 1:49:37
  So I was like free essays there. Some
• 1:49:39
  bits of the book Some of the essays
• 1:49:41
  that were formative, very formative
• 1:49:43
  in writing the book are also up there.
• 1:49:46
  So you can read those for free.
• 1:49:48
  And I think you just need a a
• 1:49:50
  registration. As for my personal website, it's a
• 1:49:53
  disaster. I'm I'm gonna have it rebuilt. I
• 1:49:56
  hope it's you know how these things get
• 1:49:58
  out of date, so I'm not gonna recommend
• 1:50:00
  that for anyone at this point.
• 1:50:04
  Cool. Cool. Well, you are right. Scarlet Imprint.
• 1:50:06
  I mean, in an era of mass production,
• 1:50:09
  they have preserved
• 1:50:11
  an artisan ship that you just don't see
• 1:50:13
  often anymore. It's a beautiful thing. It's great
• 1:50:16
  that, you know, you've written such amazing words
• 1:50:19
  and they were able to complement that with
• 1:50:21
  a great
• 1:50:22
  book. So it's just awesome man.
• 1:50:26
  Presentation is beautiful listening. It is. So all
• 1:50:29
  around, amazing stuff. You've definitely contributed to our
• 1:50:33
  scholar
• 1:50:34
  understanding of the occult beliefs of the elite
• 1:50:36
  and salute for it. Take care out there,
• 1:50:38
  man. Thank you very much, Greg. It's been
• 1:50:41
  a pleasure.
• 1:50:42
  You got it. Take care. You too.
• 1:50:46
  Sweet sweet stranger things people Peter Mark Adams
• 1:50:50
  and the game of saturn,
• 1:50:52
  what a great subject. And whenever someone asks
• 1:50:54
  me if it's possible that the elite might
• 1:50:56
  have come from a rep italian blood line
• 1:50:58
  of some kind or do I think the
• 1:51:00
  elite make deals with dark forces?
• 1:51:03
  Gonna say don't take my word for it.
• 1:51:04
  Let's just see what the Italian Renaissance elite
• 1:51:07
  had to say for themselves.
• 1:51:09
  It's provocative
• 1:51:11
  And granted, you can't see the art on
• 1:51:12
  the cards in an audio show, but you
• 1:51:14
  can always use the links in the show
• 1:51:16
  notes or just Google the deck. It is
• 1:51:18
  really 1 of my favorite types of episodes
• 1:51:21
  to do where we kind of examine something
• 1:51:23
  that can move the needle in terms of
• 1:51:25
  making the case for some far out positions,
• 1:51:28
  And really, what is more far out than
• 1:51:30
  a deal with the demi to bypass the
• 1:51:32
  rein
• 1:51:33
  cycle and rule over man as the management
• 1:51:36
  class of this
• 1:51:37
  manifestation?
• 1:51:38
  Of course, I can't say exactly why the
• 1:51:40
  deck was made, but given the context of
• 1:51:42
  the times, it's clearly a very special piece
• 1:51:45
  and I love that, Peter, really let me
• 1:51:47
  run with the speculation. We pushed it today.
• 1:51:49
  But, you know, that's what we do here.
• 1:51:52
  Peter, though, what a knowledgeable guy, great writer.
• 1:51:56
  I just loved it to find this sort
• 1:51:58
  of physical evidence for a continuity?
• 1:52:01
  To elite power and a consistency of quote
• 1:52:03
  beliefs among their ranks?
• 1:52:05
  It's mind blowing.
• 1:52:07
  I also think this 1 pairs really nicely
• 1:52:09
  with Chris last week, 2 of my favorite
• 1:52:11
  shows lately for sure. If you don't sign
• 1:52:14
  up for plus now, I guess you just
• 1:52:16
  maybe never will because these are the shows
• 1:52:17
  that I'd be looking for. In the second
• 1:52:20
  half of today, we got deeper into the
• 1:52:22
  deck in several ways. We focused in on
• 1:52:24
  the Trump cards and why they point to
• 1:52:26
  Northern Africa,
• 1:52:27
  We broke down the mysteries of the suit
• 1:52:29
  cards, the decks codes and multiple levels of
• 1:52:33
  encryption, the science of the Her.
• 1:52:36
  Demonic fella
• 1:52:37
  cannot forget demonic.
• 1:52:39
  Also, the details of the cards that reference
• 1:52:42
  human sacrifice what that's all about? How Troy
• 1:52:45
  was once reference to as the realm of
• 1:52:48
  the serpent born?
• 1:52:49
  Also the court cards and the emphasis on
• 1:52:52
  half rep italian origins
• 1:52:54
  certain elite blood lines, how to tell if
• 1:52:56
  you were pledged to a dark entity in
• 1:52:58
  a previous life. The idea of the elite
• 1:53:01
  pledging
• 1:53:02
  large groups of people to demons in mass
• 1:53:05
  rituals.
• 1:53:06
  Dragons also just to ice the cake and
• 1:53:09
  the importance of positive
• 1:53:10
  polarity for good measure.
• 1:53:13
  I ken loved it. Can't thank Peter and
• 1:53:15
  scarlet in for enough, also Gordon for having
• 1:53:17
  him on rune soup and filling me in
• 1:53:18
  on just how fascinating.
• 1:53:20
  This study was.
• 1:53:22
  In other news, Thc is doing another live
• 1:53:24
  show with tin Foil Hat. This time I'm
• 1:53:27
  supposed to be doing stand up, so We'll
• 1:53:29
  see what I can come up with in
• 1:53:30
  a week's time with no prior experience and
• 1:53:33
  crippling anxiety,
• 1:53:34
  but it is what it is.
• 1:53:36
  So remember, remember the eighth of November at
• 1:53:38
  the La jolla Comedy store. And this time,
• 1:53:41
  I don't have to drive 3 hours back
• 1:53:42
  and forth to La, which is a beautiful
• 1:53:44
  thing. We're gonna leave that to Sam Tripoli
• 1:53:46
  Ryan Davis and Eddie Bravo, who will all
• 1:53:48
  be there.
• 1:53:49
  I got 1 more up out to the
• 1:53:51
  higher side to get out to you before
• 1:53:53
  the end of October, and it is more
• 1:53:54
  of just a fun 1.
• 1:53:56
  The original plan was to run through a
• 1:53:58
  bunch of paranormal stories for the guy who's
• 1:54:00
  an author in that world for decades,
• 1:54:02
  but as soon as we got going and
• 1:54:04
  he noted that he was 11 when Roswell
• 1:54:07
  happened and also had an body experience,
• 1:54:10
  I actually just thought it was really interesting
• 1:54:12
  for me in a paranormal
• 1:54:14
  archive sort of sense to just hear the
• 1:54:16
  anecdotes and mu of a guy in his
• 1:54:19
  eighties who's lived and watched the paranormal and
• 1:54:22
  cons
• 1:54:23
  wheelhouse for literally,
• 1:54:24
  twice the length of my entire life.
• 1:54:26
  I also have a hell of a Halloween
• 1:54:28
  story to tell you on that episode myself,
• 1:54:31
  but I'm getting out of here. I'm still
• 1:54:33
  trying to convince the wife to be my
• 1:54:34
  handmade from Halloween anyone who's seen the show
• 1:54:37
  because I could just wear a suit, which
• 1:54:39
  is nice and easy, but I don't think
• 1:54:41
  she's a huge fan of the implication.
• 1:54:44
  I guess I understand, But I gotta keep
• 1:54:46
  making my case and learn how to write
• 1:54:48
  jokes. So I'll see you soon. Your move
• 1:54:51
  out attorney brotherhood, billionaire blood lines and d
• 1:54:54
  deal makers.
• 1:54:55
  Your fucking.
• 1:55:01
  No 1 knows. But it's like.
• 1:55:04
  To be the bad.
• 1:55:08
  To be the sad man.
• 1:55:12
  Behind blue eyes.
• 1:55:16
  For no 1 knows what it's like
• 1:55:19
  to be hated.
• 1:55:23
  To be faded.
• 1:55:27
  To telling only
• 1:55:29
  lives,
• 1:55:31
  but my dreams
• 1:55:35
  art
• 1:55:36
  is empty
• 1:55:38
  has my conscience
• 1:55:50
  only
• 1:55:51
  lonely.
• 1:55:54
  Since they
• 1:55:55
  exposed me.
• 1:55:58
  On thc.
• 1:56:07
  No 1 knows. 1. It's like.
• 1:56:10
  To feel these feelings.
• 1:56:14
  Like I do.
• 1:56:17
  Can I blame you?
• 1:56:22
  No 1 bites back is hard.
• 1:56:25
  Hunger anger.
• 1:56:29
  None of my pain world.
• 1:56:33
  Can show through.
• 1:56:37
  But my dream
• 1:56:41
  aren't
• 1:56:41
  sm empty.
• 1:56:44
  Has my,
• 1:56:57
  wait
• 1:57:42
  but
• 1:57:48
  empty.
• 1:57:50
  As my
• 1:57:58
  I have
• 1:58:02
  always wait.
• 1:58:03
  Lonely.
• 1:58:05
  Since I exposed me
• 1:58:18
  No 1. No. Just what it's like
• 1:58:21
  to be the bad, mirror.
• 1:58:25
  To be the admin
• 1:58:30
  behind