Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.255 'Rethinking Anatomy at the STA South West Conference' with James Earls of Born To Move

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Ep.255 'Rethinking Anatomy at the STA South West Conference' with James Earls of Born To Move · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
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back into soft tissue therapy.
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Music.
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How are you doing? Welcome to episode 255 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast.
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My name is Matt Phillips, creator of runchatlive.com. And as always,
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this episode is being recorded live on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube
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channel and Facebook on a Tuesday night at 8pm.
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So you are joining us the last episode before the STA Southwest and Hands on
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Hub conference, which is taking place in Exmouth this weekend,
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September the 20th and 21st, in collaboration with the ST School.
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We're obviously very excited. It's going to be an amazing weekend of presentations,
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workshops and networking.
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And in this episode I'm going to be joined very shortly with the one and only
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James Earls who is I'm so pleased is going to be speaking at the conference.
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He is for those of you who are not aware a writer, lecturer and body worker
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and founder of Born to Move and James is going to be discussing the gains we
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could all make by readdressing the way in which we typically view anatomy.
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Most of us traditionally taught a certain way as well as giving us details of
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his presentation at this weekend's conference.
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It sounds so good finally being able to say this weekend. Yeah,
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at this weekend's conference, the knee, why do we have it all back to front?
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Before then, I must, as always, give thanks to my guest last week,
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who was the wonderful Anna-Maria Matsieri,
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director of the ST School, who discussed wonderfully what evidence-informed
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practice should mean for massage therapists and how her two presentations at
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the conference this weekend are related to that,
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namely, when pain echoes trauma and when massage echoes embodiment,
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and also massage and manual therapy for scars, both happening this weekend.
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If you can't make it to the conference, then please don't feel that this episode
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is going to be a waste of time and switch off because all the information we're
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giving and all the chances to speak with these wonderful speakers is useful
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for everybody, even if you're not able to make it to Exmouth.
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But if you are able to make it, then you may well want to check out.
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I'm going to have to talk about my own presentation because no one else is going to talk to me about it.
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I am giving a presentation. I'm very excited about it, actually.
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I've finished it off today. It's polished. It's ready.
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And it's called Mindful Strides, Communication Skills When Working With Runners.
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And that's going to be at 10 30 a.m on the sunday in the
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main theater it's not just for people who work with runners it's about communication
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pretty much with all people who are
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looking for your help and have got a goal which is probably
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going to involve some kind of behavior change especially with the information you
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know but it's about not just forcing your information and
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kind of like laying it out for that person expecting them to do it because as
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humans we don't really normally do that especially if it's not what we expected
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to hear so i'm very excited about that so if you are coming to Exmouth this
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weekend then yeah that would be Sunday in the main theatre at 10 30 and that
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ties in very well with the gate course I've got coming up just starting in October.
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With the face-to-face day in calendar Scotland so
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if you or anyone you know are in Scotland and they're interested in setting
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up gate analysis in their clinic then check out the st school.co.uk hit the
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run check life page or just type in runchecklife.com and you'll see details
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about that right then and tickets for the conference are also available at the st school.co.uk UK.
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And if you are an STA member and you're listening to this before this weekend,
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so before Saturday morning at eight o'clock, then you can still get tickets.
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You can use your STA member discount, which you'll find in the latest STA newsletter
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or in the Facebook members group. If you have any problems at all,
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any questions, obviously, as always, contact us in the normal fashion.
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Right then, back to tonight's show. I'm
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already sensing that I'm speaking a little bit slower just in case you're wondering
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and it's because hashtag be more like james is in the house i'm very happy to
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bring up for i think the fifth time on the podcast maybe the wonderful writer
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lecturer and body worker and founder of born to move mr james earls so let's bring him up.
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Music.
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Thank you very well thank you i should start speaking a little bit more quickly,
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i from the moment i finished my chat with you
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even now i can sense i'm trying to be more
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like james just speaking a little bit slower which is a great thing well see
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i'm trying to be a little bit more math people listen to the podcast can't see
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that we're we're looking dapper i mean this is if ever there was a time to stop
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the podcast and go over to youtube to see two full body,
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a suit beautiful gentleman groomed to
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the to exceptional levels then yeah this is the time to
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go over to youtube and check us out basically just if that's what floats
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your boat but apart from that even apart from the visual and thank you so much
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for joining us once again thank you thank you for the invite thank you it's
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always a pleasure to be here and and for and again for coming to the conference
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as well it's really really excited to have you part of it like all our speakers
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i mean i've known you for a long time and a lot of people in the sta will know
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for having done your courses,
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but you just fit in so well to what we're trying to deliver,
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which is what I wanted to kind of ask you about.
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Well, I want to get into that eventually, but as always, hopefully in the couple
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of thousand downloads we get, there are some people who don't know you,
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who don't know that you're a writer and don't know anything you've done.
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So I know it's tricky, but could you condense it down maybe to,
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I don't know, 50 minutes?
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35 years yeah that would be great yes who are you and and yeah what do you do,
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uh i originally from a small time just
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like belfast i got interested in aromatherapy and complementary therapies back
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in the early 90s i studied psychology couldn't find a job couldn't find the
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job i wanted to do but knew that i love just kind of a natural approach to to
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health and particularly touch and,
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strongly interested in aromatherapy so eventually after
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after probably from my parents a
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frustrating few years of searching rand and if i
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was training aromatherapy and early 90s and
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then it was it was a pretty rubbish it was supposed to be probably the biggest
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bestest aromatherapy training back in the day and but it was pretty rubbish
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and i just started searching for more more better information that took me to
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Thomas Myers and the anatomy training stuff,
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myofascial elements.
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That took me so far. I got frustrated with that because there wasn't enough movement.
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That took me to Gary Gray and that brought me into functional movement.
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With that, I really got to blend manual therapy and movement therapy and combo.
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I'm going to bring that into my
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work and into also into my teaching and because i
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think from my point of view i i realized
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that there was in the manual therapy world a big
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gap in understanding and even the use of the movement and in the movement world
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there's a hesitation in understanding anatomy there's a hesitation in touch
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and hesitation in going outside protocols so i've been trying to kind of create different approaches,
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different understandings and different ways of seeing the anatomy,
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seeing the anatomy movement. There we go.
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That is a very good condensed version of it.
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And wonderful as well, because I think, particularly with our audience,
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once you said the word fascia, a lot of people, traditional and current,
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are excited by that term when it comes to soft tissue therapy and that.
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And it's so interesting now. I mean, I think in two weeks' time we've got dr
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melanie boucher coming on to talk about research in fascia and i love it because,
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things are changing and you came from a time where fascia the pendulum did swung
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swing far too far the other way i mean it's kind of accepted a lot of people
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who are involved in that like yourself,
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have kind of said yeah we kind of went a bit too far you know people like gil
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headley and everybody but you were pioneers and it was all new and it was exciting
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and wonderful but the thing is being able to kind of realize oh hold on let's
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just pull that cell back in a little bit,
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and that's what therapists have to do isn't it they have to realize that what
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they were taught a few years ago may need tweaking may need changing um so that's
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been challenging for you,
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it was very challenging so yes
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i was probably in the the the early groups of people talking about fascia within
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mindotherapy in the in the uk and it it rightfully got challenged because some
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of the stories were just kind of like that some of the stories were considered
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to be out there and And then actually in the more recent years, I've been...
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Given some background, some kind of backup from better research and better stories,
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the work with Mist Eccles and some young literature that you'll have next week or two weeks then.
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And so, you know, its importance is much better established than it was 25 years
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ago when I started starting on about it.
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So, yeah, the quality of information. And so, in fascia, it's almost like a trigger word.
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Split the audience between absolutely I'm excited I want to know more about
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that and the other half of books just go oh my god it's them again because there were some,
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overly exaggerated plans that were put forward,
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Fortunately that polarised way of thinking doesn't happen in society today there's
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nothing that happens in the news which kind of divides people down the centre
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it's just we're living in a wonderful time he said very cynically But it was a kind of a,
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yeah, I mean, this will happen back in like, I don't know, kind of 2010 onwards,
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the debates of fascia and barefoot.
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And it all started then getting very polarized, didn't it?
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And it got worse to where we are today, unfortunately, tragically with horrible circumstances.
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But it's kind of nice. I do feel, I don't know about you, but I do feel,
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I don't know, slightly optimistic in the sense that a lot of the things which
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we were poo-pooing now are coming back, like you say.
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And it's like, yeah, we've got the mechanism of action wrong,
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but actually we're starting to get an idea now and you can maybe do this,
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you know. So do you find it exciting?
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Do you think we're living in a slightly positive time now? Is that me?
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In terms of manual therapy, in general, for manual therapy and what we can do as clinicians?
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Yes, it's a much more mature story, much more mature cleanings that we're getting,
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much richer research base. which just wasn't there,
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I remember back in, it must have been late 90s, 96, 97, a guy called Andrew
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Vickers, who was working for the Research Council for Complementary Medicine,
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Cambridge-educated researcher, and he did a literature review for everything
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that had been published on aromatherapy and massage, and wrote a book called.
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So basically research and massage and aromatherapy, And his findings were awful.
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I was secretary for the local, just in Belfast, Northern Irish Aromatherapy
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Network. I thought, we need to hear about all of this research.
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And so he was a guest speaker at an AGM. Basically, he turned up and went.
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Everything that you say and all of it, you know, so Tishrand and Price and all
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the big names of aromatherapy, he contacted them all and contacted all the big
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names of the fast therapy.
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He meant, you know, they can't back up their claims.
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Their references are just pretty rubbish.
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So in the 26, 27 years since then, we have such a wealth of information that
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we can actually, to a much greater degree, rely on.
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That's filtered through to the schools, to the CPD providers.
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So yeah, it's a much more collaborative time.
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It's more controlled much more professional time
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as well because we are better at telling the
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stories of what we can and what we cannot do we don't
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always all follow that but at least
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we have that appreciation that's good i just wanted to hear you say it it makes
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me feel good as well when you say it that's good i think it's positive and you
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know what that's what we're hoping to convey in this conference you know there's
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everything is in kind of peaks and troughs isn't it i think we've been through
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quite a big time of bashing particularly in manual therapy and the whole hands-on, hands-off debate.
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And hopefully people are not even doing that question anymore.
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People are more like, tell me more about what could be happening with hands-on,
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you know, rather than never touch anybody, you know, it's a waste of time. So very exciting.
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And your speciality, well, one of the things which you've been talking about
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an awful lot is anatomy and how we kind of got a better idea about how we should
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be looking at anatomy now to help ourselves and our patients.
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Where did that come from? How did you?
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I don't know. Frustrations are like many things that it's...
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In one day, a few new people find their way to something because they've questioned
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it, they've hit a brick wall, they've struggled with it. I struggled with anatomy.
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I went through the many trainings and realized that I don't understand movement.
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And that was particularly when I was teaching anatomy trains.
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And back in around 2010, there were very few teachers. So it was the idea that
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the model was popular with practice teachers and yoga teachers.
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And we didn't have anyone in the school that was trained up to be able to deliver the theory.
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So I would be shipped off to stand in front of 30 light clad young yoga teachers, practice teachers,
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and I would stand in front and go, well, this is the theory,
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and this is what we do to it. and this is the manual therapy and this is what it is.
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If you do this and do that, you'll
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stretch the superficial front and back line or whatever line it was.
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And I don't understand movement. And I struggled because it's like,
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well, I'm expected to stand in front of these movement therapists and I don't understand movement.
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And I went through, I've gone through many crises of confidence and still continued to do so.
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But at that moment, I was like, I don't understand movement.
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How the hell can I speak to movement therapists? So I did.
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And I panicked and sweated a lot and palpitations and all kinds of things.
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And then I realized that in talking to them also that they didn't,
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eventually I realized, they didn't understand movement.
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They understood exercise.
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And to me, that's different exercises, one small portion of movement.
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And I was like, oh, so that helped me kind of relax, but the frustration was still there.
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And then social media started kicking in and started to show that they,
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the weak 30s maximus, and you will have weak 30s maximus if you can't toe-extend,
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so you won't get into that long, long-stripe position.
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If you can't get to the extended position, you won't be able to fire your boots.
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And those signed a post I started looking at them and I thought actually these supposed experts,
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also don't seem to understand movement just because your hip
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is in extension and that doesn't mean
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that your glutes have fired or that you want them to fire in that position whenever
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firing means to you and just realizing that through the Gary Gray training through
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standing in front of groups of people having to talk anatomy every weekend for 15 years so that oh,
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There is a different way of seeing the Anatomy Youth Movement,
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and that hadn't been delivered to me.
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It was something that I had to explore, had to work for, and the Gary Gray training
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gives a lot of that, but I didn't see it being presented.
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Whenever I go to workshops still, I see many people and social media posts and
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books that are written, many times people get stuck in the clinical anatomy story.
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So because we get taught the actions over and over again, the gluteus maximus is a hip extension.
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So every time that you see hip extension, it must be a gluteus maximus kind of thing.
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Well, we get channeled into those grooves because of the actions.
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Oh we need to actually go beyond the
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clinical anatomy story we need to see much more
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of the the context so the other forces i know you i want to come to your talk
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i don't blame you it's gonna be great but you digress thank you very much you
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suddenly thought i'd be talking for way too long the attention is too much on
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me it's so you but i i'd what i'd love is give me an example,
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maybe not the knee because your talk at at the conference is gonna be the knee
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but maybe on the I mean, the ankle, your speciality is the foot, obviously.
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But can you give us another example where traditional anatomy in 2D with the
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pictures kind of really lets us and the patient down? Yeah.
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In terms of function, I think the foot and the lower limb in general.
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So quite often we would hear descriptors of the talar joint,
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so the upper ankle joint, the higher continued talar joint, whatever you want to call it.
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It's weird language it's really good at plantar flexion and dorsiflexion it
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all grooves that way fantastic, brilliant but it doesn't have a lot of rotation.
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And it's presented as if that's a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. It's just a thing.
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And it's good at ankle and torsiflexion, plantar flexion, bad at rotation.
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It's not bad. That's a useful thing because it couples the motion.
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So it lets your solace control change the position of your foot.
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It lets your foot communicate to your tibia because it's coupled because of
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the lower or fewer degrees of rotation.
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So it's about the languaging thing. So it's a lot.
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Things are not good or bad. They are, and there's a quality to that.
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So it's those kind of things. It's being much more aware of language and the importance of it.
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And I and again you brought up very much at the moment the use of language in
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the way that it's divisive we use.
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Divisive language or anatomy that isn't always helpful or as supportive as it
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could be to understand the complexities of movement so clinical just the standard
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clinical anatomy story is,
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is great for learning where everything is
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and what they do completely out of
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context i can find everything in the segment fingers
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and thumbs and elbows and whatever into it but it
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doesn't help me understand movement and some sometimes it gets in the way of
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actually understanding real movement so that's going to interfere in our assessments
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and our judgments and the way we treat the people in front of us it's going
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to give us hypotheses which are just,
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Yeah, and as another example, the psoas, the FASFA people were very excited
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about the psoas back in the day, and probably still are.
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And there was a number of papers, probably 10 years ago, that got excited about
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the psoas is not a hitch lecture.
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And they had a fantastic argument to prove that the psoas is not a hitch lecture.
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It's like, you're arguing from anatomical position.
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So kind of like, what's the point? What's the point of this discussion?
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Because you're looking at it in one fixed position.
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And how many of us stand in anatomical position? How many movements start from anatomical position?
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Why are we limiting the cell walls to that individual or single kind of idea of being a hip flexor?
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When it can be many other, it can be a hip flexor and it can be many other things.
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So sometimes our discussions get so limited because even the researchers go
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back to, well, we will interpret these tissues and design our studies around
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anatomical position and textbook actions.
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The psoas has not read the bloody anatomy books. It doesn't know what the hell
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it's supposed to do. It'll just do what it needs to do.
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So, and this is a tricky question, but imagine
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you've got a magic wand and you can rewrite the
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syllabus for let's talk about like an entry-level
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course like where we're starting from pretty much the minimum would
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you still encourage people do you think a certain amount needs to be
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learned through anatomy charts and this does flexion this
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does extension and or would you kind of change it
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from the very beginning if you could introduce it in a different way i would
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introduce it in a very different way there's still a richness and purpose for
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those charts but they need a different introduction and I would not be starting
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with the tables, the origins and actions.
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I'd be starting with a vocabulary that lets us organize and understand the vocabulary,
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understand the rationale,
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the logic of the vocabulary that was already there and established that we've
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forgotten and we'll be discussing that on the early morning.
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And it's when you know it, it kind of makes sense in terms of the vocabulary.
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So I'll be starting from the movement and the vocabulary, the global vocabulary,
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the global movement, and look at the rationale and look at the logic of the whole structure.
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And then we can, once we understand and appreciate the bigger system,
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for me, as a learner, at least the way that I learn, by having a more global
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appreciation of the system.
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And then I have a desire and also I have some hooks to kind of attach on the
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detail and I can then come into the center and spiral in with increasing degrees
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of detail and precision specificity.
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But I need to understand or I benefit, I believe, I benefit from understanding
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or at least seeing the bigger structure.
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I think that's one of the things we'll talk about.
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But I think we try to understand the system
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by building up from the detail i think
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that for many people was the wrong way around i'm
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hard can you understand the complexity movements when you
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start talking about the biceps and the attachment of the biceps and the bicep
23:55
will do this and it's antagonized by the tricep that one it doesn't help me
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with the initially with the global system especially when it's so contrived
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and when it's so out of context to start with.
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I believe start with what I know. Don't start with what I don't know. That's good.
24:17
Give me some, you know, it's a Gary Gray thing, any time you're working with
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a client, particularly in movement, start with success.
24:26
Start with where they are. Start with something that they can do.
24:30
Yeah. Don't start with a bloody biochemistry in the organelles of the cells.
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I might ruin it now by saying this but would it work like start with what you
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can see yeah and start with what you have why do we why do we learn and ask
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me by looking at the books instead of,
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let's stand up and move and wiggle stuff feel what happened and what are the
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words that we use what are the standard,
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words that we use in everyday and then what are the how does that translate
24:59
into the anatomical language the fish full-time language or the nerdy language
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or the medical language and however you wish to use it.
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I think we've also lost the appreciation of what were those some of many of
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those words came from and what we actually mean.
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Reowning some of those is a useful process.
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They're being impacted on their mind. Some of them on social media.
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It's great points. And I can't help thinking that healthcare is supposed to
25:36
be moving towards patient-centered care and patient-centered therapy.
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But if we're still learning about our patients from books and then adding a
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knee, knees attached to this and that, and then we're not learning about people
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or patients at all, are we?
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We're kind of learning bits of a car and then so it's not surprising that it's a struggle,
25:56
for therapists to start embracing biopsychosocial
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concepts and things and and looking at the person and everything in their ecosystem
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when they've been trained in in flipping a page and looking at what the knee
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does and then how that yeah it's quite in part i reckon yeah you know that's
26:14
a and appreciation that your use of ecosystems, like we,
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in the biopsychosocial model, we should be appreciating their ecosystem,
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but yet we don't get taught about the ecosystem of their anatomy of movement.
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We get taught a very sterile, non-individual,
26:34
very white European male average body presentation of something that is completely
26:41
out of context that has no gravity, no reaction forces, no momentum.
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Individual joints that only move on their own with no other interference or
26:53
anything else in the body.
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How the hell can we understand the ecosystem of their movement?
27:00
It's very interesting. And I mean,
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we've talked a lot about how the syllabi needs
27:06
to change with regards to lots and lots and lots of things with
27:09
manual therapy and with private schools it is
27:12
i mean we both know anna maria and you've talked for anna maria before and
27:15
mike grice and common names where they are kind of trying to
27:18
put into effect you know the sort of things we're talking about but it's
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it's a struggle isn't it for mainstream education providers who have used the
27:26
same notes for years and years and years the same exams to actually change it's
27:30
very tricky but i guess we keep talking about it through shows like this and
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private schools keep doing it and and in turn students who go on the
27:40
kind of like other traditional schools will kind of start saying but hold on
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isn't this or doesn't that not make sense and then they'll realize oh my god
27:47
we better start changing it I guess that's the only way isn't it,
27:51
And it will be a slow process because one of the reasons why standard clinical
27:57
anatomy story is so widely taught is because it's so richly resorted.
28:03
We have such fantastic atlases and we have great videos and apps and all that,
28:09
videos from a bloody age.
28:11
And we have also such a well- Yeah, fantastic, yeah. Yeah.
28:17
Yes i read it was like recently it was like at least each
28:20
generation or half of people that have never rewound anything
28:23
in their life i know or even even know the concept yeah
28:26
they don't understand what it's like to put sellotape over a cassette
28:29
so you could re-record over it there's no idea what that means yeah
28:32
remember that anyway we digress two old
28:35
guys with beards honestly but yes so
28:38
it is a slow process and and we've we had a couple
28:40
of episodes where therapists who are
28:44
still being taught these things get it can
28:47
be very frustrating when they go into facebook groups and start saying
28:49
things like oh i released the service the other day on my client and they
28:52
said and it's like suddenly other therapists who have
28:55
heard you or maybe not heard you because i'd
28:58
like to think they'd be show a little bit more empathy if they'd heard you but they've
29:01
read other things and they just jump on it like oh no
29:03
you're doing this you've got to be more evidence informed and it's i think
29:07
as therapists as well we're very much part of the educative process
29:10
where we've got to be nice to other therapists and to treat them more
29:12
like patients rather than kind of showing our own
29:15
kind of knowledge by kind of laughing a
29:18
little bit at others it's but it's hard i think as well especially on social
29:21
media which really doesn't want you to be nice once you just kind of shout and
29:26
scream and yeah but anyway so just for in case people don't know let's just
29:31
bring up details of your the course uh so the presentation you're going to do.
29:36
On this saturday which is so exciting let's have a little look and bring it up
29:40
so the knee why do we have it all back
29:43
to front i don't want to go into too much detail because obviously
29:46
people listening to this show maybe will be going along but what
29:50
people learn obviously is going
29:53
to be connected to what we talked about but could what they learn in that presentation
29:56
apply to other joints in the body is it more of an approach rather than specifically
30:00
for the knee or is a lot of it to do with just the knee so we will be looking
30:05
at knee yes however many of the any of the concepts and the vocabulary will
30:11
apply to the rest of the body.
30:12
So it's, for me, about organizing the language that we use for anatomy.
30:19
And there are, I know, Syphilis, but I asked a question about how long it would
30:24
take to start thinking this way. It's, it's.
30:29
It can be 40 minutes. It can be two days.
30:34
There are a lot of just basic concepts that are embedded within the vocabulary
30:40
that are not genuinely taught.
30:44
And there are hopefully some surprises in there of just how the body is organist
30:50
and just getting a sense of the arrangement that we have in our system.
30:57
And the way that we can talk about it easily and effectively.
31:01
So in those 40 minutes, we will be talking about the knee and we'll be talking about it as a system,
31:07
and understanding the overall logic of why the hip and the knee are arranged
31:18
the way that they are from a comparative anatomy point of view,
31:21
from a cynical anatomy point of view,
31:23
from a structural anatomy point of view, from a myofascial point of view,
31:26
and from a very clear languaging point of view.
31:30
And whenever you bring in all of those stories, for me, one of the struggles
31:35
of anatomy is that it's ropes learning.
31:39
It's presentation of facts that you just have to learn as opposed to a story
31:45
that you can tell and something that ties all of those facts together.
31:49
So one of the aims is that by the end of those 40 minutes that you'll have an
31:56
appreciation of the style tips me as a system.
32:04
Without ever talking about an origin and an insertion and, well,
32:09
we might talk about functions and actions a bit, but we won't be going through
32:14
that kind of standard and everything presentation style.
32:18
I have to answer your question, Cecil. That's a great question, Cecil.
32:22
And I'm interested it made me think whether you're talking oh yeah how long
32:27
does it take your students to understand this way I think because we've got
32:29
two things going on here haven't we we've got therapists understanding it and
32:33
then you've got being able to,
32:36
give that idea to your clients who are also going to come in with a very kind
32:40
of like traditional way of understanding anatomy and that you're just going
32:43
to fix their knee and the knee does this and it shouldn't do this so but i guess
32:46
i mean what it made me think of is i think a lot of this,
32:52
if it's if it's if it's kind of sewed to you in the right way it kind of makes so much sense.
32:58
Intrinsically like james is a master at saying things like if
33:01
that was the case i can't do the beautiful accent now but if that
33:04
was the case why would this happen or what
33:07
do you would you expect to happen and when i think when it's kind of the
33:10
seeds are sown that way it kind of just drops and
33:13
you think oh yeah that makes total sense because it's
33:16
not rocket science is it when you're challenging
33:19
these things it's kind of when you get more person-centered and think
33:22
and apply it yourself then it's a lot of it is common sense
33:26
or not i don't know it it
33:29
maybe whenever you we break out of
33:32
the channels of clinical anatomy
33:35
it's the the channel the pressure
33:39
that we have to learn these facts and when it's
33:41
presented in a different way it's like oh okay so i
33:44
can apply common sense i can i can apply these principles
33:47
and see see maybe there's
33:50
a different way in which we can interpret and see
33:53
what's going on so yeah it's it's
33:57
giving a lot more freedom to be
34:00
able to understand the client in front of you i think
34:02
that's a better way of saying it actually than common sense it's just giving you the freedom to
34:05
critically think and and look and use your eyes and have
34:08
that freedom rather than thinking oh what was it what was that book again and
34:11
then suddenly running to your anatomy book from years ago and flicking
34:14
through and going oh yeah that's what it does internal rotation when the hip is
34:17
at 90 whatever it is yeah good question cecily very
34:20
good okay right steve kirby's got a question here looks quite long prepare yourself.
34:25
Steve here we go james loving your talk you said you want to look and go deeper
34:30
e.g why a muscle is not firing with nervous slash motor neurons not functioning
34:34
correctly would you want to look that deep the nervous system orchestrates movement would you agree.
34:40
So is it, so lots of discussion, I'm certainly not a nervous system expert by any means.
34:48
So yes, the nervous system orchestrates movements, but is it always hopped on,
34:54
is it always feed forward, is it feed back?
34:57
So I would be, from a functional point of view,
35:01
I would be asking a client, not asking, but asking a client's system,
35:06
why is that muscle not being given the chance and not given the information
35:10
to switch on, to do what it should do?
35:15
The language I find a little bit awkward in all of that.
35:19
I don't buy into the amnesia, gluteus maximus of thinking and muscle is not firing properly.
35:30
So provided that the nervous system is healthy,
35:34
if there hasn't been an insult to it in some way,
35:37
for most normal clients coming in with an obvious intangence or stroke or something
35:48
else that hampered the nervous system in some way,
35:52
I'd be asking more, why is their system not being put in, nor not achieving,
35:58
not able to reach into a range of motion under which the muscle has no option
36:05
but to fire, to switch on, to do what it should do.
36:10
So I'd be coming at it from a very non-conscious and functional approach.
36:16
Can I encourage their system to reach into a long enough stride to reach into
36:25
enough hip adduction, madduction, whatever it may be.
36:30
The story of the weak gluteus maximus is something present in my head so I can't get rid of it.
36:36
So it's not the weak gluteus maximus. It's something that's not letting me,
36:42
probably, like clinical thinking for me would be what is preventing me from
36:46
getting in a position where my gluteus maximus has no option but to fire, to contract, to work.
36:54
And I prefer the idea of working rather than firing because it's all gone a
36:58
bit meshy out there in the social media world.
37:02
So I don't know if that surely answers your question, Steve,
37:05
but that's the direction I come from.
37:08
That's a great question, Steve. Feel free to follow up with that and with any
37:11
reflection on what James has said. But yeah, great question. Very good.
37:16
Right then. So I want to make sure we do mention people, a chance for you to
37:21
think of some more questions.
37:23
This is your chance now to ask James Earls some questions about anatomy and
37:27
not too specific on the knee. Let's save that for this Saturday.
37:30
But you also wonderfully, Anna Maria is so excited about this.
37:33
You're also offering something a little bit special on the Friday night,
37:37
as if there wasn't enough on the Saturday and half day Sunday,
37:40
which has been advertised on social media. If you're not following the ST school,
37:44
then pretty much everywhere, or it is everywhere, at the ST school.
37:47
The Anatomy Al Aperitivo. For those of you who aren't aware,
37:51
we should stress that Anna Maria is about as Italian as an Italian person can get outside of Italy.
37:55
So this is why there are Italian references. But yeah, what's this going to
37:59
be on the Friday night, James?
38:01
I think, as we've talked about before, in terms of the Therapy Expo,
38:05
going to conferences, going to these kinds of events.
38:08
And particularly if you're going for the first time going solo, they can be quite.
38:14
Intimidating and so we thought this ticks many boxes but one of them is to let
38:21
people mingle and get together in a very relaxed sociable space,
38:27
which is the Italian cafe around the corner from Anne-Marie's clinic.
38:33
And often that is easier with a glass in hand, whether that be of a brawl spritz
38:40
or apple juice or whatever is your tipple,
38:44
and a few nibbles, and to have a chat, to mingle in a non-threatening space.
38:55
And I think the excuse, I think Anne-Marie just wants an excuse to maybe have
39:01
an brawl spritz or two, and the excuse is that I'll be chatting about food.
39:07
So I'm not sure exactly how all of this is going to work in space,
39:13
but I imagine I'd be wandering from table to table and answering questions and
39:19
giving a bit of a chat about the mechanics, the functions, the bits and pieces
39:23
that go into making up what we call the food.
39:28
So I'm looking forward to it. It's a bit of an adventure.
39:32
It's a bit of an experiment. but it's all
39:34
it's very informal it's a bit of
39:37
learning a bit of hopefully a lot of fun a lot
39:40
of chat and opportunity to meet those old and
39:44
new friends sounds divine sounds wonderful that's friday night it is an extra
39:51
curricular activity so if you have got a ticket already for conference then
39:56
i think it's a maximum of 20 people because that's all that's going to fit into
39:59
the Exmouth Deli, the Italian store.
40:01
But yeah, I think tickets are £15 or something. So it's a.
40:07
To have yeah this kind of intimate close relaxed learning with cheese and and
40:14
meets with james earls wonderful and there's still tickets for that if you listen
40:17
this before the weekend then,
40:20
then uh yeah head along to the st school.co.uk and you
40:22
can still sign up for that make sure you do don't put it off because like i
40:25
say it is a maximum of 20 people and that's not because we're charging 500
40:28
pounds 20 by 500 wonderful no it's it's
40:31
cheap as chips and yeah it'd be a really nice
40:34
evening if that's your sort of thing i think it'd be wonderful i would
40:37
go along but i'm going to be practicing my presentation the
40:40
night before and i won't be able to yeah entertain at all
40:43
be with people so but yeah be much more fluent with an aperol stretch in your
40:47
hand no no i wouldn't be at all i can go into it but yeah but it sounds like
40:53
a wonderful opportunity um i think you should check in that the 15 point does
40:57
actually include the aperol or a soft drink and the nibble i know Oh, it's crazy.
41:02
I wasn't involved in the meeting for that price. I don't know where that came
41:06
from. Just typical Anna Maria Matsiari and you.
41:08
But anyway, wonderful. Yeah, sounds like a lovely opportunity.
41:12
Let's just mention as well, apart from because I'm conscious that,
41:15
you know, not everyone will be able to go to Exmouth in Devon this weekend,
41:18
especially as it's only like a few days away.
41:21
What else is going on in terms of Born to Move, other things that you offer?
41:26
I'm going to put the website up on the screen for people who like to have the visual.
41:29
But if you go along to born to move.com then
41:33
there's a wealth of information as you can imagine um from
41:36
somebody who's been in the industry for so long along
41:39
with other professionals um as well but yeah what other courses do you think
41:43
our listeners might be interested in yeah what have you got going on well recently
41:47
i've started dabbling with new workshops under how to basically how to understand
41:52
the anatomy movement so i was kind of important but 15 the the chat.
41:58
Mostly out of demand, mostly because people wanted it whenever doing other workshops.
42:04
And so that's a new offering. It's either a one-off weekend or a series of three.
42:11
And then also by popular demand, people wanted an online course.
42:16
So I've also been struggling away over the last six weeks putting a load of videos together.
42:23
So that's not available on the site. People coming along to the conference will
42:28
be getting a special offer on that to get some people going through it for my
42:35
feedback so they can go through a special price,
42:38
but let me know how it works and the typos and the misplacements and whatever that might be going on.
42:48
So, both new workshops, new online course, and then next, no,
42:54
not next month, but November, a new book coming out, co-authored with a wonderful
42:59
breathwork teacher, Christopher Gladwell.
43:02
So, it would be the first volume coming out, The Evolved Breath,
43:06
which is basically, why do we breathe the way that we breathe?
43:13
And this came out of conversation. He's a breathwork teacher and he gets very
43:18
frustrated with the ongoing protocols of breathwork.
43:25
Everyone's just doing their school approach. Nobody is really understanding breathwork.
43:31
I'm saying, well, do people actually understand why we breathe the way that we do it?
43:36
Well, no. So I'm doing the comparative evolutionary. astronomy story within that book.
43:43
And he does the breathwork stories.
43:46
So it's looking at the breath through the years and how that's our body involvement
43:55
led to the strategies that we currently have.
43:58
So it's about understanding the breath rather than just following the recipe books.
44:03
Sounds amazing, Mark. That sounds, and again, such a topical,
44:07
because there are different schools of thought and there's research.
44:09
And we've had people on the show talking about various different systems and
44:13
should it be through the nose and should it be through the mouth or should it
44:15
be a combination especially whether you're a runner or an athlete or just everyday
44:18
life so that's gonna be very interesting will it be animated we talking some
44:23
wonderful pictures again and.
44:25
Uh there are some wonderful pictures in it and a lot of qr codes for videos
44:30
linking to the practice amazing oh not so much involvement for me in the practice
44:36
because i'm not a breathwork,
44:37
teacher or practitioner but yeah there
44:40
is there are plenty of colored partly colored
44:43
illustrations fantastic yeah i'll
44:47
just say because your books are always very popular not just because of the
44:50
way they're kind of explaining things but also just the layout and
44:53
yeah the visual aspect although that can be a personal thing but
44:56
the feedback i get from them is is people do love the
44:59
way that they're laid out which is important as well it's a
45:01
different publisher list oh okay so ignore everything
45:04
we'll edit that we'll take that out and and
45:07
that we were just talking off air that's quite a long time in
45:10
the process wasn't it that yeah the idea came out
45:13
of conversations from 2019 2020
45:16
and so then
45:19
we kind of agreed and just had it all set up
45:22
from 21 and then i got asked to write functional intermediate
45:25
movement books so that took a year and a half
45:28
and a year longer than she does and so
45:32
everything just has taken longer so we actually finished the writing of it at
45:37
least a year ago and I think it's a year going through the editing and the illustrating
45:40
and the re-editing and the printing and the designing and that well hopefully
45:45
design and printing and then the shipping it's a long process.
45:51
I pretty much forgotten.
45:56
You're gonna have to redo it to a revised edition as soon as it comes out but
46:00
yeah that's your i mean come on you've got to stop saying yes to people when
46:03
they come up with interesting ideas kind of you know you're your worst enemy sometimes aren't you,
46:07
yes yes yeah right we
46:11
are nearing the end of the time if people want to obviously
46:15
go to the website born to move.com also where's
46:18
probably best place to keep up to date with what's going on at born to
46:21
move is it facebook or instagram or both or at the moment neither i've been
46:28
taking a break from social well posting on social media at least yeah um but
46:33
with the the new projects coming up and a lot more material to push.
46:40
So I've been working away, leaving away on the online course and deliberately
46:45
leaving social media for a while.
46:48
So it's like, oh, you now have the resources to pocket it.
46:51
Social media again, so either Instagram or Facebook and whatever social media platform you refer.
46:59
Whichever of those two. Just remember on Instagram, it's hashtag,
47:03
not hashtag, it's not, it's underscore born to move that must
47:06
be so annoying knowing that born to move are gone but hopefully you had closure
47:09
on it but yeah it's underscore born to move if you're on
47:12
instagram facebook easy just born to move and then you yourself born
47:16
underscore to underscore walk as well which i
47:19
know through experience you sometimes post some interesting stuff on that so that's cool
47:22
excellent otherwise just go to born to move.com for
47:25
the information wonderful right it's 10 2
47:28
just check we have any more questions in there from
47:31
our lovely people who joined us live thank you everyone who joins this live we really
47:34
appreciate it we know that most of
47:36
you are busy and working and can't make
47:39
it which is lovely and we do appreciate you those of you
47:42
who are listening to the podcast the downloads are still there it's lovely it's really cool
47:45
and we know that we're used on first year physiotherapy courses and stuff like
47:48
that so it's all going very well but we do appreciate people who come to join
47:51
us live as well cecily hisslot i'm worried about cecily having the final word
47:56
but cecily says having just googled lazy glutes ai has presented me with dormant
48:01
bottom syndrome So apart from the fact I now have the giggles,
48:04
is it actually a problem for people or is it a marketing gimmick?
48:08
Dormant bottom i must admit i haven't heard that one before but dbs could be.
48:14
And we can measure the thing it is now yeah
48:17
could be there you go thank you yeah thank you everyone for
48:20
your comments and everything john w says gutted i can't be
48:23
there i'm having a groney on friday evening yeah
48:27
thank you very much john yes shame you can't be there as well but like
48:29
i say let's not have any fomo the idea of this conference.
48:32
Is we are going to move around the country and and even
48:35
outside of the country as well there's chat about taking it
48:38
up to scotland to ireland and maybe even internationally as
48:41
well so don't worry we're doing this as a
48:44
nice big test to see how well it's received to kind
48:47
of show the world how we wanted to put this conference together
48:50
both the sta and the st score will be at
48:53
therapy expo we won't have the hands on hub and the sta theater but
48:56
animary will be there presenting i'm there presenting and we'll
48:59
both have stands as well so those of you who can't make it
49:02
we will be at therapy expo if you fancy that at
49:05
the nec as always or maybe both who knows depending on
49:08
what you're up to but like i say yeah this conference will be if
49:11
it all works taken around the country so yeah
49:14
please don't sit there having fomo it's just not worth it we will
49:17
bring it to you it's the least we can do right so
49:20
that's then done just thanks once again james earls
49:24
thank you so much for your time really appreciate it always a
49:26
pleasure because you're shooting on one day no
49:30
not at all silver fox let's not go down that road again
49:33
we've had so many beard comments tonight i haven't shown half of them because
49:36
it just would have turned into a yeah just a weird grooming kind of hour of
49:40
chat but yeah you're having to shoot off where are you going straight after
49:44
the conference aren't you having to go off somewhere you're going abroad up
49:46
to wigan there's another conference up in wigan uh tmj.
49:51
British TMJ Symposium Yes It's my wife's in Wigan I'm often up in Wigan How wonderful,
49:58
Of all the times, I'm not in Wigan, then you're going to be up there doing it.
50:01
Oh, well, never mind. Wonderful. Right. Well, thank you, James.
50:04
Really appreciate your time. Really looking forward to seeing you.
50:06
Sorry, unless Anna Maria really collars me, I won't be in the aperitivo place.
50:11
I prefer to give my space up to someone else, but I look forward to seeing you on the Saturday.
50:14
And we'll catch up then in person. How exciting. Yes.
50:18
And thanks again, everyone who's joined us live. If you would like to come along,
50:22
let's have just a reminder of what's happening after the conference,
50:24
life after the conference.
50:26
It will go on. on tuesday september the 23rd we're
50:29
going to have a specialist episode something i've really wanted
50:32
for a long time on how to read and understand research papers really
50:35
important and how to kind of tell whether if someone shared a paper with you
50:39
saying oh look this paper says this how to have a little look and check the
50:42
significance of it maybe measure the quality just being able to look out for
50:47
maybe red flags of not taking it to heart and cherry picking so we're going
50:51
to have Special guest Ben Cormack is going to have core kinetic.
50:55
I always do that. He's going to hate me for that. I always call him a core kinetic.
50:58
Sorry, core kinetic. I don't know why I go. I'm sorry, Ben, Freudian slip. Core kinetic.
51:03
He's going to be with us. Wonderful Ben Cormack, who a lot of you,
51:05
I think, know from the Better Clinician Project with Adam Meekins.
51:08
I've seen a lot of his work to do with understanding research paper,
51:11
and he really manages to explain it from kind of man in the street.
51:15
What, Ben, that kind of core thing, which is really infectious, and
51:18
it really makes it easy to understand the information
51:21
so yeah do join us then if you're around
51:24
on either sports therapy association youtube channel or
51:27
facebook page that's tuesday september 23rd and
51:30
that's going to be how to read and understand research papers with ben cormack
51:34
until then thanks once again to james earls thank you james thank you thanks
51:39
to everyone who joined us live oh absolutely wonderful really enjoyed it and
51:42
everyone who joined us live and please everyone take care of each other and
51:46
take care of yourselves as well. We'll see you soon. Bye-bye.
51:50
Music.