Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 3 - Who Is the Son of Man?

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Ep. 3 - Who Is the Son of Man? · Martyr's Row

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  James the Great. The next martyr we meet with,
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  according to Saint Luke, in the history of the
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  Apostles' Acts, was James the son of Zebedee,
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  the elder brother of John, and a relative of
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  our Lord. For his mother, Salome, was cousin
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  German to the Virgin Mary. It was not until ten
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  years after the death of Stephen that the second
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  martyrdom took place. For no sooner had Herod
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  Agrippa been appointed governor of Judea than,
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  with a view to ingratiate himself with them,
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  he raised a sharp persecution against the Christians
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  and determined to make an effectual blow by striking
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  at their leaders. The account given us by an
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  eminent primitive writer, Clemens Alexandrinus,
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  ought not to be overlooked, that as James was
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  led to the place of martyrdom, his accuser was
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  brought to repent of his conduct by the apostles'
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  extraordinary courage and undoubtedness, and
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  fell down at his feet to request his pardon,
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  professing himself a Christian. and resolving
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  that James should not receive the crown of martyrdom
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  alone. Hence, they were both beheaded at the
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  same time. Thus did the first apostolic martyr
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  cheerfully and resolutely receive that cup, which
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  he had told our Savior he was ready to drink.
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  Timon and Parmenas suffered martyrdom about the
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  same time. The one at Philippi and the other
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  at Macedonia. These events took place 44 A .D.
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  Well, hey Paul, hey, how's it going Steven? So
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  I was thinking about this Right when we get into
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  the episode. Yeah as anybody that's listening
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  or watching as soon as you hit play you're right
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  into a Reading out of Fox's book of martyrs.
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  Yes, and that reading is not light common language
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  It's hard to read it is it's hard and it's one
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  of those things where like you have to could
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  read it ahead of time yeah, because like We don't
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  really talk that way anymore. We kind of shy
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  away from things written like that. It's a very
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  old way of writing. It is. Yeah. It's like which
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  makes sense because it was an old book. Yeah.
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  That's a good point. Yeah. Because Fox's book
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  written like fifteen hundreds. OK. Yeah. Yeah.
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  I had kind of asked it but I'm pretty sure that
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  I don't actually know. I think it's like fifteen
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  forty something like that. But I think I saw
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  that on a piece of paper somewhere. But the thing
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  about that is like you know it used to be that
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  writing was only for the elite class. So it was
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  almost like this pious thing, where as they're
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  writing it, they're kind of talking about the
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  fact that they're writing. So it's like, ooh,
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  look at me, I can write. And that's just like
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  how - You can't read it. Yeah, exactly. So writing
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  used to be like that. And one of the cool things
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  about the Bible, is that the New Testament, at
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  one point, people believed that the New Testament,
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  and this is more in the gray area of after the
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  Nicene Councils and all of that stuff, after
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  the actual early days of the church, and then
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  in that gray 1 ,500 year period before us now,
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  a lot of people thought that the new testament
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  was written in an angelic language really yeah
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  because it was oh because they could understand
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  it right no because they couldn't understand
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  it because they could i took the absolute no
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  no because they couldn't understand it but but
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  but it had been translated already okay so it
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  didn't necessarily need to be You know what I
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  mean? Like the original language didn't need
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  to be. But the problem was is no one could find
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  the original language. So one of the things that
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  happens is when you actually start to translate
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  something, you want to have another reference
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  of that same language. That's the whole thing
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  with the Rosetta Stone. That's why it's so big,
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  because we have all different languages saying
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  the same thing. Yeah, and so it corroborates.
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  Yeah, corroborates. I think I said that. Yeah,
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  yeah. Trying to use bigger words. Yeah. Oh, look,
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  I can talk. Let me test out a new word. Exactly.
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  But like the one of the things that's interesting
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  for me is is and the thing that I love about
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  it is the Old Testament is mostly written originally
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  in Hebrew and Aramaic. And then and that's because
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  the Babylonian exile, all that stuff. But the
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  New Testament is actually written in Koine Greek.
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  And what that means is common Greek. Yeah. So
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  the New Testament is actually written in common
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  Greek. So that's why people thought it was an
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  angelic language because no one was writing in
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  common Greek literature. So no one was writing
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  literature. I see now. Yeah. But there was this
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  trash dump like I want to say like 100, 150 years
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  ago where there were some archaeologists digging
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  through it and they started to find what looked
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  like Greek writing. Turns out it's Koine Greek.
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  And they find all these like receipts from working
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  class. And these receipts are written in Koine
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  Greek. The only place that they have seen it
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  before is the New Testament. God bless the tradesmen.
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  I know, right? But so that kind of tells you
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  like it's like you have the Old Testament. written
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  in that kind of, not in the pious language, but
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  it was written by priests. It was written by
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  an upper class. And then you get all of a sudden
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  the New Testament is for the common person. And
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  so it's this beautiful juxtaposition. That's
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  so cool. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then
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  the funny thing is like, and maybe we need to
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  do a whole episode on the King James version.
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  There's a lot now and William Tyndale and all
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  that stuff. Yeah, but the history of that but
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  It's funny because like the the I feel like the
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  modern Translation even that people push back
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  to is like the King James is the translation
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  Yeah, but the King James was written in like
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  the highest form of English. Yeah Which is like
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  anti how the New Testament was written So I always
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  thought that was kind of funny. That's actually
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  kind of funny. Yeah, but. But it's a good point
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  that you bring up, even with, and I think that
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  alone, with how the New Testament's written,
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  is supposed to be like, we are all supposed to
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  be reading this. Yes. Like that's the intent.
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  It's for all of us. It's for all of us to read
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  it. Because I think there's, and something we've
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  talked about off the podcast, is that there's
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  this mentality that a lot of people have of like,
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  oh well, that stuff is for, like the real theological
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  study, That's for pastors and scholars, let them
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  worry about it. But it's like, no, that's for
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  you to worry about. And it's like, that's for
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  all of us to care. And that's why, hopefully
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  you're listening to this podcast, you're like,
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  I do want to dive into this. And it's like, you
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  don't have to be a scholar. We can benefit from
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  those people, because they have the time and
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  the resources and the intelligence to do stuff
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  that I can't, that we can't. But we get to benefit
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  from them. But we have to read what they wrote.
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  Exactly. And we have to be patient enough to
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  do that. Yes. And we're not in a modern era that
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  allows for that. True. In a lot of ways. Yeah,
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  true. And I have conversations all the time that's
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  like, make it simpler. I understand that. Like,
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  yes, make it simple. Because like for my for
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  my three year old or my six year old, like I
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  have to make things simple. But if I leave everything
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  simple. Yeah. Then they never grow. You end with
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  a simple faith. Yeah, I'm letting them tell me
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  how to teach them. Yeah. And I think that happens
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  so much with Christians is the Christians are
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  saying, hey, church leader, I'm going to set
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  the pace for how I want you to teach me. That's
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  not good. No. And so like, I feel like because
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  one of the things I love about how we're opening
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  the show is like, to be completely honest, it's
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  probably the worst way to open because it's like,
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  it's like. Wait, I think I could listen, me even,
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  I could listen to our whole intro and go, I heard
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  nothing. Just because of the language of it.
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  It's a weird cadence even, even listening. You
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  need to focus, actually like, let me pay attention
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  when I'm listening to you. Yeah, and I think
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  there's more to unwrapping this, especially in
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  today's episode. So, I just wanted to take a
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  brief aside and say, We're on the same page.
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  Stick with us because I think that it's important
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  for us to be okay with stretching ourselves a
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  little bit. Absolutely. And we're not coming
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  up with and writing these things at the beginning.
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  Yeah. We're reading them ourselves. So it's a
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  little bit of like, hey, let's preserve some
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  of this stuff and also bring ourselves up a little
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  bit in order to dig deeper into historical things
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  that like to be completely honest, we can't really
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  know unless we learn to read it like that. Unless
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  we learn to read it how it is. Because how things
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  are phrased also primes how we think about them
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  a lot of times. And I think for even the way
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  Fox's book of martyrs is written, or even the
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  King James is written, it's like it's kind of
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  like a time capsule of like this is how people
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  thought. in a lot of ways, and it can help us
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  unlock that a bit better. Yeah, and that's all
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  we're doing when we study the Bible, is trying
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  to understand the context of who originally read
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  this, who originally wrote it, and what message
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  was the Lord trying to get across to those people,
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  because he's trying to get it across to us as
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  well. So, I would say, hopefully you didn't too
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  now after the reading. Hopefully we can journey
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  together and learn some new words if you did
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  you just listen to it again The the intro and
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  I love doing that kind of cool like I like listening
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  to things that I have to listen to again Yeah,
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  but I think that that's maybe that's a challenge
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  Yeah, listen to it twice and see what happens.
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  There might be something hidden in there. That's
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  awesome You ready? I'm ready three two one And
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  we're back. Welcome back. I say it every time.
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  I don't know why. Because we were gone and now
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  we're back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, so this
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  is the part of the show where we I guess write
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  a theme song every time. Yeah. I think foolishly
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  the idea was to come up with one. To build something.
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  Yeah. Yeah. I guess that could still happen.
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  I feel like what we need to do is give them a
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  lot of options. Yeah, yeah. Because we want this
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  to be collaborative. Oh, that's actually a good
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  point. We're in the writing room. Yeah. Yeah,
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  they can give feedback on like we like one. How
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  about take two and like add more to it? I think
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  at some point we'll bank a few. Yeah, and then
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  we'll be like which ID do you like the most?
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  Okay, like top two or three. What if we do one
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  of those things? We're like while they're listening
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  they can jump ahead to the one they actually
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  want. Oh I don't know how that works, but what's
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  that? Like how does that work with like the most
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  replay storytelling though? It's like choose
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  your own adventure Oh yeah. That could be kind
• 11:25
  of cool. Oh actually that would be kind of cool.
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  I don't know how you would do that though. Maybe
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  we can get the podcast on Netflix somehow and
• 11:32
  they can figure it out. Yeah. My solution is
• 11:36
  have someone else do it. That sounds good. I'm
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  good with outsourcing. One of my favorite things
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  to do is to have a creative meeting and walk
• 11:47
  away where everybody else is doing the work.
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  Where I just throw out the the craziest idea
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  that everybody else has to figure out how to
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  do it. But I feel like you might be in this one.
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  I have discovered this more about myself is I'm
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  like the visionary. So it's like, I can't do
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  it, but I'll tell you what I want. I think we're
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  both that. I think we both are visionaries, yeah.
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  Which is why this podcast works. So you guys
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  are the ones. Yeah, we need you guys to start
• 12:15
  editing the podcast. That honestly would be great.
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  They'd probably do a better job than me. Well,
• 12:22
  someone, yeah, I mean, no, I don't know. I mean,
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  we're kind of doing it together. Yeah, we are.
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  It's a collaborative thing. It is, because we're
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  both visionaries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right,
• 12:30
  so I have... Just delegating to each other? Yeah.
• 12:34
  No, we're trying to get them to do some work.
• 12:36
  Actually, that'd be great if you guys could...
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  Hey, stop just listening. Could you guys really
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  start pulling your weight? Yeah, start contributing
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  somehow, guys. Maybe leave a like or a comment.
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  Subscribe. Okay, yeah. Share it. Leave a review.
• 12:46
  Yes. That would actually mean a lot. Yeah, because
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  to be completely honest, if you're just listening
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  to this, what a one -sided conversation. Yeah.
• 12:54
  I mean, we're trying to talk to you guys. You
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  guys have to respond. Yeah. Talk, don't give
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  us just blank stares right now. What are you
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  doing? Yeah. It's really rude. It's like my ex
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  -wife. Let's never address the fact that she
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  doesn't exist. But I also like the, yeah, I like
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  that idea though. Like how dare you listen to
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  this while you're running or sitting still. So
• 13:22
  rude. Or just like haven't worked out in six
• 13:25
  months. But you're thinking about it. Yeah, yeah,
• 13:27
  yeah. How dare you do that? We're basically asking
• 13:33
  them to do something nice for us by accusing
• 13:36
  them. Of not exercising? Yeah, yeah, just berating.
• 13:40
  No, but how dare you listen to us and not talk
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  back to us? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk back, please.
• 13:46
  Yeah. When has anybody ever asked you to do that?
• 13:49
  I don't think most people do. I guess every like
• 13:52
  youtube and podcast does well, they're like,
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  hey leave a like and i'm like, yeah Yeah, do
• 13:56
  that but like also like tell me like how's Hey,
• 13:58
  we're on two different parts of youtube That's
• 14:04
  the bro space pause in the bro space All right,
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  write a song for us. Speaking of bro space. That's
• 14:14
  the lyric today. James the bro. James is the
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  martyr we're honoring today. Yeah, but he is
• 14:21
  a bro. He was a bro. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:25
  I'm sure he was. They probably all were. Yeah,
• 14:27
  I mean, he was the one where he wanted to be
• 14:29
  on the either the right or the left hand of Jesus.
• 14:32
  I think that is funny, though, where like you
• 14:34
  like all of depending on what how you approach
• 14:38
  the world. that's how you want those people to
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  be yeah that's like i just heard somebody today
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  on a podcast and i did not respond to them but
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  they said like yeah i want i want my jesus to
• 14:48
  be like six five and it's like that but he wasn't
• 14:53
  six he wasn't probably like five foot five yeah
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  i think he was i think average height was like
• 14:59
  five five so i think he was like five five five
• 15:01
  seven yeah which it's funny because i'm in the
• 15:04
  lord's height range Just keep that in mind That
• 15:08
  is a funny idea though. It's like you want James
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  and like, you know, the friends of Jesus the
• 15:14
  disciples you want you want them to be like you
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  Yeah, and like how you see yeah, that's my guy.
• 15:20
  It's like but like yeah, but think about it Like
• 15:22
  you may not he may not been somebody you would
• 15:25
  have hung out with Yeah, probably maybe maybe
• 15:28
  not maybe maybe not. All right theme song time
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  This became a different segment. We're just getting
• 15:33
  to a whole other episode Yeah things uh, okay,
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  so what if god was like one of us what if god
• 15:39
  Yeah Um, no, so, uh, I had no I have no lyric
• 15:47
  thought We have a title of the podcast. So I
• 15:50
  think that's like a good starting point Um, but
• 15:53
  I have no lyric thought. I just thought you know
• 15:56
  what i'm gonna do a three chord country progression
• 15:58
  Oh, okay, and just see what happens. I like it.
• 16:01
  So we'll we'll see So I'm not even sure how this
• 16:05
  is going to turn out. And this time we have a
• 16:07
  little bit brighter of an acoustic. Yeah. Which
• 16:10
  brings out the country in you. It does. It's
• 16:14
  like a dark sunburst and stuff too. Yeah, it's
• 16:17
  kind of pretty. A little buzzy. Should I do that
• 16:36
  1 -5 -4 or 1 -4 -5? We're talking music now.
• 16:43
  I'm trying to remember which one's more country.
• 16:46
  Yeah, that's what I'm trying to remember. Yeah.
• 16:47
  So 4? Maybe that's it. That's pretty country.
• 16:51
  Yeah, that's it. That's it. Back to the 1 -4
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  -5. There it is. That's it. Yeah, we gotta walk
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  up. They're not walking down. They're not walking
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  down. Just their lives are going down. But now
• 17:08
  I'm not gonna try a country accent. I was wondering
• 17:11
  if you were gonna That was prepping. What if
• 17:14
  I just sing the same like week one just over
• 17:18
  top this Let me see if I can tell a story yeah
• 17:24
  Maybe from my hometown Especially those people
• 18:00
  that are just listening and not watching But
• 18:07
  I like where you're going. I like this story.
• 18:08
  I like the story. Okay, so Maybe we go verse
• 18:12
  two just to see what happens. Yeah, yeah Yeah,
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  I don't know um, okay We want them to be just
• 18:24
  like us But they're not There's someone from
• 18:31
  somewhere else I don't know Let's try and just
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  hit a hook But one day we'll stand toe -to -toe
• 18:46
  All the way down on Mars Row America! It's like
• 18:53
  every country song that just wants to make his
• 18:56
  jokes to America This is the wrong show for that
• 18:59
  I'm just kidding Can't I can't say we honor you
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  without so saying red white and blue I Had to
• 19:15
  stop because I wasn't gonna sing that All right,
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  give me something like give me something It's
• 19:25
  so hard to go in the country only about his corn
• 19:29
  Well Now I'm trying to think way out of the box
• 19:44
  when you're writing like this Like a Trying to
• 19:52
  see what it feels like to live in zero AD Who
• 19:59
  decided it was one Who started over the family
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  tree What are we doing who decided this year
• 20:11
  was number one Do you think they had a zero?
• 20:17
  Let's start over. Alright, let's just go right
• 20:22
  to a hook, okay? Okay, okay. Because this is
• 20:24
  starting to devolve a little bit. It's falling
• 20:27
  apart. This is falling apart. Guys, we really
• 20:30
  need your help. Please help us. For your sake.
• 20:36
  Alright, let me try... I'm trying to think of
• 20:39
  a melody. For like a country melody. This is
• 20:53
  Steven and Paul Coming to your life in the studio
• 20:58
  It's Murderers Row Murderers Row! That's from
• 21:07
  my other show He's trying to do a true crime
• 21:15
  I realized too that martyrs, I want to say martyrers
• 21:19
  Oh yeah yeah yeah I'm not sure why I mean, you
• 21:23
  agreed with me very graciously, but I'm not sure
• 21:25
  it makes sense. Are those the people that martyr
• 21:26
  the martyrs? The martyr -er? They were the martyr
• 21:32
  -ees. Uh, maybe country was a bad idea. Alright,
• 21:41
  let's get one in and just see what happens. Okay,
• 22:16
  now it's just a worship song. Now it's a worship
• 22:17
  song. This one might not be yet. Yeah, you know
• 22:21
  what? Let's try it again next week. Yeah. You
• 22:24
  ready? I'm ready. That was music time. Let's
• 22:27
  get into the topic. See, this is what happens
• 22:29
  in writing. Yeah. Sometimes. Sometimes you get
• 22:32
  there, sometimes you don't. Yeah. Is that week
• 22:45
  one? That was week one. There he is, come on.
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  All the way down the dirt road. I think we ended
• 23:00
  that one country too. Won't you come along? Come
• 23:16
  along. Won't you come along? Come along. Come
• 23:26
  along. Well, the second one in the story was
• 23:33
  a man named James. The first was Stephen, after
• 23:38
  Christ, of course. The original Margaret. That's
• 23:45
  right. These are all great men. Ten years after
• 23:49
  old Stephen. Ate some rocks right outside the
• 23:54
  city. We honor you. We honor you. My name's Paul
• 23:58
  and I have to pay reparations to Stephen. Alright,
• 24:14
  let's be over with this. That was a good snap.
• 24:17
  It was a good snap. That was our best one. I
• 24:19
  hope you get all of our snaps. You get at least
• 24:21
  three. I love that it's just a thing we do now.
• 24:25
  Yeah, it just happened organically. Yeah. The
• 24:27
  best things happen organically. So true. Yep.
• 24:30
  Anyway. I'm excited for our conversation today.
• 24:33
  I am too. Let me just say that at the forefront.
• 24:35
  Yeah. I've been looking forward to this. Hopefully
• 24:37
  you'll still be excited at the end. Yeah, I might
• 24:39
  be crying at the end. We'll see. Let's see if
• 24:42
  I can make Paul cry. That'd be so good. I need
• 24:45
  a good cry. Or maybe it's not me that makes you
• 24:47
  cry. It doesn't, I'm not like inflicting pain
• 24:50
  upon you. You're like, I'm determined that you
• 24:54
  will cry by my hand. I'm gonna make him cry by
• 24:57
  the end of this episode. It's like, threat now?
• 25:01
  Oh, we'll see what happens. Hey, you never know
• 25:04
  where this is gonna end. No, we'll see. Well,
• 25:08
  so today our martyr, as we talked about in the
• 25:10
  beginning, was James. Yes. Or James the Great
• 25:12
  is. I love that. Some like to refer to him, which
• 25:15
  I think is a great title for him. It is a great
• 25:18
  title. James the Great. It's pretty awesome.
• 25:22
  I do like how the further time gets away from
• 25:25
  those individuals. Things are added to them like
• 25:27
  Saint and the Great and all that stuff. It's
• 25:31
  really cool. It's like they start to elevate
• 25:33
  people to their status. Which, you know, most
• 25:37
  of them would be like, please don't do that.
• 25:39
  They're like, no, no, no, no. They're like, no,
• 25:42
  you're James the Great. I think you're missing
• 25:44
  the point, guys. But then we have Moses and Was
• 25:47
  it numbers? He was like, and Moses was the most
• 25:49
  humble. We're like, I'm pretty sure he wrote
• 25:52
  that. And they're like, and then Moses laid down
• 25:55
  and died. It's like, wait, who wrote that? He
• 26:00
  was like, it'll happen. These are the questions
• 26:02
  we want to talk about on Martyrs Row. Martyrs
• 26:06
  Row. Martyrs Row. Talking about martyrs. It's
• 26:11
  not the writing section. I'm talking about. Yeah,
• 26:14
  but one of the cool things that I liked in What
• 26:19
  Fox's writes about okay Fox's book of martyrs.
• 26:22
  Yes. Yeah, I wanted to shorten it, but I was
• 26:24
  like I first John John Fox I just made it longer
• 26:27
  Yeah, that's good. Sometimes you need that. I
• 26:29
  don't remember I don't have it in front of me
• 26:30
  this time, but the one thing that I love that
• 26:33
  he adds to the account of James okay is The the
• 26:39
  fact that he was willing to take the cup that
• 26:41
  the Lord Offered oh, right, and it's like what
• 26:44
  it's one of those where it's like it's again
• 26:46
  It's one of those layered moments where it's
• 26:47
  like what is what is that talking about for people
• 26:50
  that aren't familiar? It's kind of like huh,
• 26:53
  right? And so for those that aren't familiar
• 26:55
  if you are familiar, then you already know this
• 26:57
  hopefully if you're unfamiliar Here's what it's
• 27:00
  about there's at one of the dinners. I was it
• 27:04
  I don't remember which one it was but James's
• 27:08
  mom comes up to Jesus and and says, hey, I want
• 27:13
  my two boys, one of them being James, one to
• 27:16
  sit at your left hand and the other to sit at
• 27:17
  your right. And it's funny, because Jesus is
• 27:20
  kinda like, what? So he's like, you don't know
• 27:24
  what you're talking about is the first thing
• 27:25
  he says. You don't know what you ask. But then
• 27:28
  he says, that's not a decision for me to be made,
• 27:30
  because it's already been made. However, are
• 27:34
  you willing to drink from this cup? And that's
• 27:37
  what he says. And we don't actually know what
• 27:39
  cup he's talking about. But James very happily
• 27:43
  says, yeah, I'll do it. And I think what's cool
• 27:47
  about that is even if he's unfamiliar with where
• 27:50
  he's going, he is so fully convinced in who Christ
• 27:54
  is that he's willing to follow him wherever because
• 27:57
  he knows that he wants to go where Christ is.
• 28:00
  And so one of the questions for me when I think
• 28:02
  about this is like, how can he be so certain?
• 28:05
  Because you know it's like there is a certainty
• 28:07
  that he had that not all the Apostles shared
• 28:09
  I don't think at least not at that time Yeah,
• 28:12
  I can see that and so because it's like there's
• 28:14
  there's such a willingness kind of a Peter level
• 28:16
  willingness But yeah, James isn't typically one
• 28:19
  that just kind of you know cuts people's ears
• 28:21
  off on a whim Well, it's James and John the sons
• 28:23
  of Zebedee. Yes, so sons of thunder though, too,
• 28:27
  right? Yeah, so that's the other thing is like
• 28:29
  I always my brain always went to like Mighty
• 28:32
  Ducks Like the bash bros. I always went to that
• 28:39
  because it was like, that's my only reference
• 28:41
  of like, there are these two guys that like,
• 28:44
  they were probably big dudes. I don't actually
• 28:47
  know. I'm sure there's a way to look that up.
• 28:50
  But the way that they represented themselves
• 28:52
  were as if they were, maybe they were men of
• 28:55
  great ego. And that very well could be too. I
• 28:57
  mean they're asking a very big thing. They are.
• 29:00
  You know, they got their mom to ask them for
• 29:02
  yeah. Yeah. Hey mommy, can you please ask Jesus?
• 29:06
  What do you say like that it's funny Cuz cuz
• 29:10
  back then it wouldn't have felt like that. No,
• 29:12
  not at all, but it now yeah, but that's a but
• 29:15
  but it is There's something within the conversation
• 29:18
  that you're bringing up even yeah before you're
• 29:21
  I know you're setting up a question Yes, but
• 29:23
  there's there's something within that that's
• 29:25
  actually really interesting to me and it's the
• 29:27
  idea that There are all of these things that
• 29:31
  are actively referenced. Yeah. And we assume
• 29:35
  that they don't know what they're asking. But
• 29:38
  they probably are very familiar with what he's
• 29:40
  asking. Well, sometimes. Yeah. Because sometimes
• 29:44
  we do know they are confused by what he's talking
• 29:46
  about. They are confused by what? Yeah. But a
• 29:49
  lot of times when they say things that they're
• 29:51
  sure about, and when Jesus speaks about things
• 29:54
  that he's sure about, which he's never like...
• 29:58
  Well, hey, what do you guys think about this?
• 30:00
  Just testing this idea. Although when he does
• 30:02
  do that, he lets him talk and then he goes, yeah,
• 30:05
  it was actually this. And it's like, oh, well,
• 30:08
  OK. Why'd you do that to me? Yeah. Yeah. Make
• 30:11
  me look foolish now. But it makes me think about
• 30:13
  the fact that there are greater contexts that
• 30:17
  are informing the conversations they're having.
• 30:20
  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So when James asked that
• 30:24
  question, when his mom asked that question. Yeah.
• 30:27
  They're asking it to who they think is gonna
• 30:30
  be the new king of Israel, right? So right, you
• 30:34
  know It's true. So like that's that's a big question
• 30:38
  for sure Yeah, but also like if they're saying
• 30:42
  like let let my sons be at your right and your
• 30:46
  left In your kingdom, yes Then she has to know
• 30:52
  that that that's like general status. Mm -hmm.
• 30:56
  Like it's a big deal Yeah, and it would be they're
• 31:01
  willing to give their lives for you. Yes. So
• 31:03
  they are making that type of statement. Absolutely.
• 31:06
  Yeah. Which is when he asked them the question,
• 31:09
  regardless if they understood it or not, they're
• 31:12
  like, it doesn't matter. Right. Because we want
• 31:14
  to follow you. Yeah, they just didn't know what
• 31:16
  it looked like. Yeah. Yeah. They knew what it
• 31:18
  looked like as far as like following a king and
• 31:23
  Giving their lives over to whatever that regime
• 31:27
  was they know what that looks like Yeah, but
• 31:30
  they didn't understand fully the kingdom that
• 31:32
  he was bringing into play. Hmm. So Really same
• 31:36
  sacrifice, but it looks different. Yeah, it's
• 31:38
  true Because you're not gonna conquer here. Yes
• 31:43
  You're actually gonna die first. Yeah, and they
• 31:46
  have no clue Yeah, yeah, so it's not like conquer
• 31:50
  and then die It's like die and then conquer.
• 31:53
  Well, his death was the conquering. Yes. Which
• 31:55
  is like, what the? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah,
• 31:58
  so it's interesting. So it's funny because there
• 32:00
  are things that Jesus says that leaves people
• 32:02
  confused. And there are other things that he
• 32:04
  says where everyone's like, we got to kill this
• 32:08
  guy. Yeah, absolutely. And so part of it is like,
• 32:10
  OK, so it's got to have a tie in somewhere. It's
• 32:12
  like, there's got to be some significance to
• 32:14
  that. And so what I think about that in particular
• 32:17
  is the titles that Jesus calls himself. There
• 32:20
  are many things that people call Jesus, but there's
• 32:25
  a few that he calls himself. And so a few of
• 32:28
  these is he calls himself the bread of life,
• 32:30
  the light of the world, the door of the sheep,
• 32:32
  the way, the truth, and the life, the good shepherd,
• 32:35
  the resurrection and the life, the true vine,
• 32:38
  the chief cornerstone, going on and on, the bridegroom.
• 32:40
  So he says he calls himself the son of God. That's
• 32:43
  a pretty big one. That is a big one. But there's
• 32:46
  one title in particular that Jesus gives himself.
• 32:50
  This wasn't placed on him. He calls himself this,
• 32:52
  and it's the Son of Man. And so what's interesting
• 32:55
  with that title is a lot of people will argue
• 32:59
  that, oh, it's him emphasizing his humanity.
• 33:04
  And it's like, okay, we could go with that, sure.
• 33:07
  But he uses it 81 times in the New Testament
• 33:10
  across the Gospels. And so it's like, okay, so
• 33:14
  he's if he's just emphasizing his humanity. Also,
• 33:20
  where does it come from? Where does this title
• 33:21
  come from? That's another interesting question,
• 33:23
  which we'll get to. But let's look at this. Let's
• 33:27
  just consider, well, okay, so let me actually
• 33:29
  say this first to kind of set this up. Son of
• 33:32
  man, we see that a lot in the Old Testament as
• 33:35
  well, but particularly in the book of Ezekiel,
• 33:38
  I think, how many times did you say? It's used
• 33:40
  there. It's like 90. 93 something like that.
• 33:42
  In the Book of Ezekiel. Yeah, and it's used to
• 33:45
  refer to Ezekiel himself, calling him a man.
• 33:49
  Yeah, but it's only used like 107, 108 times
• 33:53
  at all in the Old Testament. So it is used a
• 33:56
  lot, meaning over 100 times. But majority for
• 33:59
  humans. And the majority specifically Ezekiel.
• 34:05
  Yeah. Yes. Well, so it's interesting so with
• 34:08
  that Ezekiel doesn't call himself the son of
• 34:11
  man. No, that's what the angel calls him. Yes
• 34:13
  Yeah, which is it's interesting. So it's like,
• 34:16
  okay, so we see this overwhelming usage in the
• 34:18
  Old Testament to refer to humans so When we look
• 34:22
  and this is this is the one that's like, okay
• 34:24
  We got to consider this maybe a little bit differently
• 34:27
  and it's mark 14 62 through 65 And this is when
• 34:32
  Caiaphas asked Jesus if he is the Messiah. And
• 34:36
  this is how Jesus responds. And Jesus said, I
• 34:40
  am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at
• 34:43
  the right hand of power and coming with the clouds
• 34:46
  of heaven. And the high priest tore his garments
• 34:48
  and said, what further witnesses do we need?
• 34:51
  You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?
• 34:55
  And they all condemned him as deserving death.
• 34:58
  Some began to spit on him and to cover his face
• 35:01
  and to strike him saying saying to him Prophecy
• 35:05
  and the guards received him with blows Okay,
• 35:10
  so here's where my mind goes when I see this
• 35:12
  when I read this is He calls himself the son
• 35:16
  of man And if that's supposed to emphasize his
• 35:21
  humanity Why are they calling him a blasphemer
• 35:24
  and then screaming prophecy in his face? It's
• 35:27
  like that's kind of, that's a little aggressive
• 35:32
  for someone who's just emphasizing humanity.
• 35:35
  Yeah, well, and for, so if I, if we were in a
• 35:41
  situation where I, okay, so the stakes in this
• 35:47
  situation are kind of high already. They're pretty
• 35:49
  high. Yeah, but the fact that Jesus' response,
• 35:54
  so Jesus at this point. Yeah. Is being accused
• 35:58
  and he's alone. Yep, and there's a council. Yeah,
• 36:02
  and Caiaphas Because of what Jesus says rips
• 36:09
  his clothes. Yeah That it's dramatic. Yeah, but
• 36:12
  it's not it's not I would actually say like I
• 36:16
  feel like I Feel like I've never seen anybody
• 36:19
  rip their clothes except for a Hulk Hogan Do
• 36:22
  you know what I mean? Yeah, it's true. It's not
• 36:24
  a practice we have. No, it's not like I've never
• 36:28
  said anything to anyone that caused them to then
• 36:30
  rip their clothes. Right. But there is that element
• 36:34
  of holiness or irreverence that that statement
• 36:42
  kind of, it's like when something is said or
• 36:47
  when Someone tears their clothes. Yeah, it's
• 36:50
  symbolic Yes, and there's there's something happening
• 36:54
  there. That is it's a visceral response Yes,
• 36:58
  and like I think about that like when Hulk Hogan
• 37:00
  did it. Yeah, it was this show of It was the
• 37:05
  show of great strength. Yes of like I own whatever
• 37:10
  is about to happen. Like you can't stop me. But
• 37:13
  in these moments... It's the exact opposite.
• 37:16
  It is the exact opposite. I can't believe you
• 37:17
  just said that. How dare you? So much so that
• 37:20
  I have to do something physical because I mean
• 37:24
  I don't know why he didn't just like shout really
• 37:26
  loud. Do you know what I mean? Well there is
• 37:29
  that like you want to punch like if your name's
• 37:31
  Kyle you want to like punch drywall or something.
• 37:33
  But they didn't have drywall. It was all stone.
• 37:34
  They didn't have any drywall. Actually that's
• 37:36
  a good point. I think maybe our modern day is
• 37:39
  punching the drywall. Yeah, I think it is. I
• 37:43
  think he just cracked the code. I knew it. They
• 37:45
  tore their clothes because if they punched the
• 37:47
  wall, it would be stone. This was a Kyle. He
• 37:53
  was a Kyle. That's amazing. But anyway, along
• 37:57
  with that, though, we digress very quickly sometimes
• 38:01
  exactly to what you're saying. It's like, this
• 38:04
  is a very, very visceral reaction to something
• 38:07
  Jesus said. And also, why are they yelling prophecy
• 38:11
  at him? It's like, that doesn't make sense. So
• 38:14
  it's like, so something about this has to be
• 38:16
  prophetic. It has to be very foretelling to the
• 38:19
  Messiah. It is interesting because it's just
• 38:23
  the word prophecy. Yeah, that's all they're yelling
• 38:25
  at. It's almost like it's not in context, unless
• 38:29
  there is already a context set up. Exactly. And
• 38:33
  so that brings up the question, which we already
• 38:35
  teased a little bit earlier, is where does Son
• 38:38
  of Man come from? Because that's the big thing
• 38:39
  that he claims. And he also talks about what
• 38:42
  the Son of Man will do. And so it's like, okay,
• 38:45
  so in the Old Testament we see that, but vast
• 38:48
  majority is in Ezekiel, referring to Ezekiel.
• 38:51
  And there's only one time, which is where Jesus
• 38:55
  seems to be quoting from, and it's Daniel 7,
• 38:58
  13 through 14. Right. And it says this, I saw
• 39:02
  in the night visions and behold with the clouds
• 39:04
  of heaven there came one like a son of man and
• 39:07
  he came to the ancient of days and was presented
• 39:09
  before him. And to him was given dominion and
• 39:12
  glory and a kingdom that all peoples, nations
• 39:16
  and languages should serve him. His dominion
• 39:18
  is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass
• 39:21
  away and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.
• 39:25
  So what's interesting about - Wait, put that
• 39:27
  in common language really quick, because basically
• 39:29
  what Daniel is saying is there's one like a son
• 39:33
  of man, so one of human form, that comes before
• 39:38
  the King of Kings, that comes before the Almighty
• 39:41
  God. And the kingdom of the one like the son
• 39:45
  of man, in the image of a human, his kingdom
• 39:51
  is everlasting. That's profound. It's pretty
• 39:54
  profound. But here's the thing I find interesting
• 39:57
  about this. It's a very bold, very big statement
• 40:03
  inside of Daniel. It's a big vision to get. It
• 40:07
  is, yeah. And Daniel's not making it up. He's
• 40:10
  not saying it. He's expressing. He's expressing
• 40:15
  what he's seen in his night vision. Night vision.
• 40:19
  Isn't that right? He's a spy now. But the question
• 40:24
  I have again with that, because I think it's
• 40:26
  easy to see them be like, oh cool, it comes from
• 40:27
  Daniel, done. But it's like Jesus calls himself
• 40:30
  son of man 81 times throughout the Gospels, and
• 40:34
  that's just what's written. And this is above
• 40:38
  other titles that... were given to him. When
• 40:41
  we look at even Ezekiel or Isaiah, it's like
• 40:44
  these other things that could be used more. Sure.
• 40:46
  The things he calls himself. Why does he only
• 40:48
  call himself, I think the most, I don't remember
• 40:51
  which one it is, but it's like seven times, three
• 40:53
  times, two times, one time, but 81. And so it's
• 40:57
  like, okay, that's kind of significant. It is.
• 41:00
  And it's too significant for just two verses
• 41:02
  in the Old Testament. And so there's something
• 41:06
  I want to read. But let's so just just yeah versus
• 41:11
  so really quickly because if you look up the
• 41:14
  number So we already mentioned this. I just want
• 41:17
  to recap. Yeah. Yeah, please It's the idea that
• 41:19
  like it's not that son of man has only mentioned
• 41:21
  twice Right. It's mentioned over a hundred times.
• 41:25
  Yes 90 something of those times is an Ezekiel
• 41:29
  and son of man is referencing. It's what the
• 41:32
  Lord or the angel calls Ezekiel. Yeah, so yeah,
• 41:36
  he's calling him that And it's also used in Psalm
• 41:40
  8, I believe. And then it's also used in, I want
• 41:45
  to say it's used somewhere else in the Torah.
• 41:47
  It's like Numbers or Exodus or something like
• 41:50
  that. Anyways, any time it's used in those references,
• 41:55
  it's referencing a distinction between God, heavenly,
• 41:59
  and man on earth. So it's speaking to a son of
• 42:03
  man. So it's speaking to humanity. And so even
• 42:07
  in Ezekiel, it's speaking to this son of man,
• 42:11
  or the son of man who is Ezekiel. So he's speaking,
• 42:15
  he's using that word. They're very clear that
• 42:16
  he is the son of man they're referring to. Yes.
• 42:19
  And the big thing of that is Ezekiel is seeing
• 42:23
  a vision. So he is in heavenly places. He's the
• 42:29
  son of man they're talking about. So in some
• 42:31
  ways, and we haven't really even talked about
• 42:33
  that, but the fact is is that the reason why
• 42:36
  it makes sense for them to keep calling him the
• 42:39
  son of man is because there's not a lot of son
• 42:41
  of men around. He's the only one. In that vision,
• 42:45
  he's in heavenly places. So he's interacting
• 42:48
  with... and seeing cherubim, he's seeing all
• 42:52
  of these heavenly things, and he's the son of
• 42:56
  man that they keep talking to, talking about,
• 42:59
  referencing, and saying, and it's a way, it's
• 43:03
  a moniker, it's something to reference him by.
• 43:07
  There's not a son of man, we're talking to you,
• 43:11
  son of man. go down the stream and be like, son
• 43:14
  of man, like, oh yeah, Ezekiel, he's the only
• 43:16
  one here. Yeah. Yeah, so other than all of that,
• 43:21
  there's only two times, and it's in Daniel. Yeah,
• 43:25
  it's two verses, but one time it's mentioned
• 43:27
  to refer to something other than a human. Because
• 43:31
  it even says, like a son of man. Right. Yeah,
• 43:34
  and in that vision, basically it's the view of
• 43:43
  Incarnate yeah, so It's basically a prophecy
• 43:49
  speaking to Jesus as Incarnate before the Father
• 43:56
  God the Almighty God and putting into stat or
• 44:01
  into reference that Jesus's kingdom is an everlasting
• 44:05
  kingdom. Yes, but he is like this. He's like
• 44:09
  a son of man and I see Now that I'm hearing it
• 44:12
  more, too, and thinking about it right now, the
• 44:15
  other thing that makes it, I think, a weaker
• 44:17
  argument sometimes, referencing Daniel, which
• 44:19
  I believe that is the direct reference Jesus
• 44:21
  is making, is this never actually... Well, we
• 44:24
  haven't said what the direct reference is. True.
• 44:27
  And that's what we're going to get here. But
• 44:29
  it's like, even with that, it's like he doesn't
• 44:31
  actually call him son of man. He says someone
• 44:34
  who's like the son of man, like a son of man.
• 44:36
  So it's like... Oh, so he's not even calling
• 44:38
  him Son of Man. But Jesus says, I am the Son
• 44:41
  of Man. And so it's like, that's, okay, like,
• 44:44
  where does this come from? Yeah, and in that,
• 44:48
  before you get fully to the question. The secret.
• 44:51
  Yeah. In that, what that means is, out of all
• 44:56
  the times that Son of Man is ever used, if we
• 44:59
  only just read the Bible, is at that one moment
• 45:03
  in Daniel. If that's all we have, that's actually
• 45:10
  enough. Because if that's all we have, then what
• 45:15
  we have is Daniel having a night vision, and
• 45:20
  in his night vision, he is seeing one like a
• 45:24
  son of man, meaning of flesh, of the earth, before
• 45:30
  the Almighty God, and the only one that that
• 45:32
  could be referencing is Jesus. If Jesus says,
• 45:38
  I am that son of man, then that son of man is
• 45:44
  the one that he is like, right? So he's like
• 45:47
  a son of man, but he's that son of man. So it
• 45:51
  actually is, we only needed one thing. The question
• 45:56
  that I think you're getting to is, and I feel
• 46:00
  like some of what we've been talking about this
• 46:02
  whole episode so far is really the fact that
• 46:08
  There is a greater conversation and a larger
• 46:11
  context. Yeah. And I'm glad you're saying this.
• 46:13
  If we just have the Bible, we have all we need.
• 46:20
  Absolutely. Absolutely. If we just have the written
• 46:23
  Word of God, we have all that we need by the
• 46:26
  Spirit working in and bringing to life the testimony
• 46:30
  of Jesus. Yeah. We have all we need. But there's
• 46:33
  a lot of things that They say In the Old Testament
• 46:38
  in the New Testament That is direct references
• 46:42
  for things and this is actually the simple of
• 46:44
  what I want to say before we get to this is I
• 46:48
  think one of the mistakes that I've always made
• 46:50
  is And to be honest, it's a mistake that you
• 46:54
  can make because it's holistically there, but
• 46:57
  I think I think that Like there's a good scholars
• 47:03
  they have a lot of footnotes. They're not coming
• 47:07
  up with something completely on their own. And
• 47:10
  if they are coming up with something completely
• 47:12
  on their own, then they're probably a cult leader,
• 47:15
  and there's probably a demonic spirit behind
• 47:17
  it. And they're also usually dismissed by everybody.
• 47:19
  Yeah, they're probably not coming up with it
• 47:21
  on their own. It's probably coming from somewhere.
• 47:25
  And yeah, anyways, essentially my point is, everything
• 47:31
  in the Bible is not isolated just to the Bible.
• 47:34
  When Jesus says something, it's not the first
• 47:38
  time it's been said. And that's actually something
• 47:41
  that I feel like was a fallacy of mine. That
• 47:45
  a lot of times when I would read something that
• 47:47
  Jesus says, I would go... That's the first time
• 47:51
  that's ever been said because it was never said
• 47:53
  like that in the Old Testament Yeah And so it's
• 47:56
  weird that like there's all these there's all
• 47:58
  this language and there's all these statements
• 48:00
  that happen in the New Testament That feel like
• 48:03
  they're out of rhythm from the Old Testament.
• 48:06
  Mm -hmm Like they're they're in the same category
• 48:09
  and they're in the same conversation, but they
• 48:11
  feel out of rhythm like almost like almost like
• 48:15
  they're too much in a different context. And
• 48:18
  that there's something that needs to bridge the
• 48:19
  gap in the context. And in some ways, I've just
• 48:22
  kind of gone like, well, that's just the first
• 48:25
  time they ever said it. But it feels like he's
• 48:28
  referencing something. Especially with the way
• 48:29
  people react to what he's saying. Yes. That's
• 48:32
  the biggest thing. They're not surprised or like,
• 48:35
  OK. It's like, no, you're actually speaking to
• 48:37
  them. Yeah. Well, and sometimes they don't realize
• 48:40
  what he's saying until he says it again. True.
• 48:42
  Like I think about when he's in the synagogue
• 48:45
  at Capernaum, and he says basically that same
• 48:50
  thing. Yeah. And then he goes, I'm that guy.
• 48:54
  And when he reads at first, I believe that it
• 48:59
  says that they're astonished and they like what
• 49:03
  he's doing. Yeah. And then he says, I'm that
• 49:05
  guy. And then they try and push him off a cliff.
• 49:08
  And it's like, OK. So it's one of those things
• 49:11
  where the other thing I thought about was parables.
• 49:17
  So I feel like yes, Jesus says things that are
• 49:22
  said for the first time in the scriptures. And
• 49:26
  many times I think it is the parables. Yeah.
• 49:28
  But what he's doing is recontextualizing what
• 49:32
  they've misinterpreted. in a lot of ways, and
• 49:35
  it's confusing to them. Well, I'm actually kind
• 49:39
  of saying the parables are a good example of
• 49:42
  where he's not saying anything new at all. Exactly
• 49:44
  what you just said. Because what he's doing is
• 49:47
  he's saying, all right, you guys haven't understood
• 49:50
  what the prophets and the law have been telling
• 49:52
  you. Exactly. So I'm gonna open up the scriptures
• 49:54
  to you. The only way I know how to do that is
• 49:57
  to use things that you already know and understand.
• 50:00
  So I'm gonna use your context. to give you these
• 50:05
  profound statements that have actually already
• 50:07
  been said. And I'm gonna give them to you in
• 50:11
  parables so that those who do not have eyes to
• 50:14
  see and ears to hear will stay as confused as
• 50:16
  they currently are. And so it is one of those
• 50:19
  things where like, let me say it again in a different
• 50:21
  way. And I feel like that's almost all of what
• 50:25
  Jesus does. He just is saying things. in a different
• 50:29
  way, hoping that the hearer and the listener
• 50:33
  is opened up to it by the Spirit of God as He
• 50:37
  expresses it. So in some ways, I'm kind of saying
• 50:41
  the Bible repeats itself and it's all saying
• 50:43
  the same thing. It does. And Jesus is kind of
• 50:47
  just saying over and over again, this is what
• 50:50
  the kingdom of God is like. Yeah, we've been
• 50:53
  saying it for a while. Well, it's like it's yeah
• 50:56
  to that point It's like what's being taught in
• 50:58
  the Old Testament is basically well, it's like
• 51:00
  okay, so we have The beginning in the Torah where
• 51:03
  we see this is how God established what he wants,
• 51:06
  right? This is what you should do Yeah, and then
• 51:09
  it's the story of Israel just getting it wrong
• 51:11
  over and over and over and over again Right to
• 51:13
  the point where they've established themselves
• 51:15
  and then Jesus comes along and says I had to
• 51:19
  come down here and tell you myself. You're not
• 51:22
  doing it right. This is what it means. This is
• 51:25
  what I've been trying to tell you. And all throughout
• 51:27
  the Old Testament, the lessons that they learn
• 51:29
  are basically like, why can't you see this? You're
• 51:34
  not getting it. Like, let me show you a different
• 51:37
  way. Well, and to put a bow on that so that we
• 51:39
  can get back to the topic at hand is, Jesus is
• 51:44
  not saying anything new. However, He stated everything
• 51:48
  the first time. Yeah. So everything was stated
• 51:52
  by Him the first time. So all of that was new.
• 51:55
  Yes. When He actually speaks and we put it in
• 51:59
  red letters, that is not new. Right. He's referencing
• 52:04
  things He's already said. Yeah, but how they're
• 52:07
  hearing it is for the first time. It is. Yeah.
• 52:10
  Yeah. And the greatest expression of that is
• 52:12
  when Jesus after his ascension shows up to the
• 52:17
  men on the road. And it says he opened up the
• 52:21
  scriptures to them and the hearts burned within
• 52:23
  them. That's what he was trying to do the whole
• 52:25
  time. And there's so much beauty in that. But
• 52:28
  I feel like that's important to say is that the
• 52:31
  fact is pretty much nothing that he says in the
• 52:35
  New Testament is brand new information. It's
• 52:39
  in the context of their worldview, it's in the
• 52:42
  context of things that they've already read and
• 52:45
  understand. That's why they're having these reactions
• 52:47
  to it. That's also why they're either following
• 52:51
  him or definitely not following him. Because
• 52:54
  he's very divisive. And he even says that. Like,
• 52:59
  I came to divide father from son and mother from
• 53:04
  daughter. I came not to... Honestly, not to bring
• 53:09
  peace, but to divide with the sword. And divide
• 53:14
  these things, basically saying, I came as the
• 53:17
  truth, to bring the truth, so that what is not
• 53:21
  true would be divided and separated from what
• 53:23
  is true. And that's a very divisive thing. And
• 53:28
  he's constantly doing that. But he's not stating
• 53:31
  anything new. That's kind of the whole thing.
• 53:35
  So when when Caiaphas Accuses him and then he
• 53:41
  says I am the son of man. Mm -hmm What is he
• 53:47
  talking about and that's a great question And
• 53:49
  that's yeah, and that's that's part of it's like
• 53:52
  what is it? Where's the reference from? Yeah,
• 53:55
  cuz it has to be more than just what we see in
• 53:58
  Daniel sure for and that's just that's the one
• 54:01
  That's the one in 81 That that I that I brought
• 54:05
  up for this. Oh, yeah, so I'm gonna read from
• 54:09
  another book Okay, and then we're gonna talk
• 54:12
  about it afterwards. Okay I'm just gonna read
• 54:15
  just yeah read the passages in it And it starts
• 54:19
  like this There I saw one who had the head of
• 54:23
  days and his head was like white wool and with
• 54:26
  him was another whose face was like the appearance
• 54:29
  of a man and his face was full of graciousness,
• 54:33
  like one of the holy angels. And I asked the
• 54:36
  angel of peace, who went with me and showed me
• 54:38
  all the hidden things about that son of man,
• 54:43
  who he was and whence he was, and why he went
• 54:47
  with the head of days. And he answered me and
• 54:49
  said to me, this is the son of man who has righteousness,
• 54:54
  and righteousness dwells with him, and all the
• 54:57
  treasuries of what is hidden he will reveal.
• 55:00
  For the Lord of Spirits has chosen him, and his
• 55:03
  lot has prevailed through truth in the presence
• 55:06
  of the Lord of Spirits forever. In this Son of
• 55:09
  Man whom you have seen, He will raise the kings
• 55:13
  and the mighty from their couches, and the strong
• 55:15
  from their thrones. He will loosen the reins
• 55:18
  of the strong, and He will crush the teeth of
• 55:20
  the sinners. He will overturn the kings from
• 55:23
  their thrones and their kingdoms, because they
• 55:25
  do not exalt Him or praise Him. or humbly acknowledge
• 55:29
  whence the kingdom was given to them. The face
• 55:32
  of the strong he will turn aside, and he will
• 55:34
  fill them with shame. Darkness will be their
• 55:37
  dwelling, and worms will be their couch. And
• 55:40
  they will have no hope to rise from their couches,
• 55:43
  because they do not exalt the name of the Lord
• 55:44
  of Spirits. These are they who judge the stars
• 55:47
  of heaven, and raise their hands against the
• 55:50
  Most High, and tread upon the earth and dwell
• 55:53
  on it. All their deeds manifest unrighteousness,
• 55:56
  and their and their power rests upon their wealth.
• 55:59
  Their faith is in the gods they have made with
• 56:01
  their hands, and they deny the name of the Lord
• 56:04
  of Spirits. And they persecute the houses of
• 56:07
  his congregation and the faithful who depend
• 56:09
  on the name of the Lord of Spirits." Yeah. Yeah.
• 56:17
  And so when I read that, there's a big thing
• 56:21
  that pops out. One of them is, what did we see
• 56:25
  in the Daniel passage? We see one like the Son
• 56:29
  of Man with the Ancient of Days. Yes. And what
• 56:32
  do we see here? We see the Son of Man with the
• 56:37
  Ancient of Days. Yeah. The Head of Days, I think
• 56:40
  it says. Head of Days. And it's like, wow, that's
• 56:44
  pretty close. Yeah. And what does it talk about
• 56:47
  the Son of Man? What will he do? He will establish
• 56:50
  his reign, he'll establish his rule, which was
• 56:53
  given to him by, as they call it here, the Lord
• 56:55
  of Spirits, which I think is actually an incredible
• 56:57
  title that I want to start using more. Yeah.
• 57:00
  And why? Because I wanted to talk about that.
• 57:03
  Yeah, it's such a fascinating thing. Should we
• 57:05
  tell them where it's from first? Sure. So that
• 57:07
  was from the references. It's 1 Enoch. 1 Enoch,
• 57:14
  chapter 46. Chapter 46. Yeah, I had to make sure
• 57:17
  I got the chapter right. Yeah, so that's from
• 57:19
  1 Enoch chapter 46 Yes Yeah, in 1 Enoch they
• 57:27
  reference the Lord Almighty Yahweh They reference
• 57:31
  Him as Lord of Spirits Yeah And that's really
• 57:38
  cool I'm about to sneeze Bless you Sorry They
• 57:44
  reference Him or call him the Lord of Spirits.
• 57:49
  Which I feel like is probably potentially unique
• 57:52
  to Enoch for the sake of how often Enoch is talking
• 57:59
  about other spiritual beings. Yeah, well he's
• 58:03
  being led and spoken to by other spiritual beings.
• 58:07
  Yeah, so it's so on the nose. It is. Okay, there's
• 58:14
  one Lord of all the spirits. Every single spirit
• 58:18
  is beneath him. Yeah, so Lord of Spirits. Yeah.
• 58:21
  That's pretty simple. It's pretty cool. But it
• 58:24
  is cool. I think it's great because I think it's
• 58:27
  something that we do so often is make it, it's
• 58:30
  only about us. Right. But in this, it's a redirect
• 58:34
  because he's in the spiritual realm, viewing
• 58:36
  these spiritual things. It's funny because when
• 58:39
  we talk to the Lord on Earth, it's like, oh,
• 58:41
  he's the Lord of all creation. Yeah. It's like,
• 58:43
  it's true. Lord of all creation. Good song. Old
• 58:47
  Mac Powell. Water, earth and sky. Great song.
• 58:50
  I don't know why I went with that voice. I don't
• 58:51
  know why. It was close. It was close. But then
• 58:54
  he's in a spiritual realm. Right. And they're
• 58:57
  like, oh, he's the Lord of Spirits. Yeah. He's
• 58:59
  the Lord of all of us. Yes. In this realm. Yeah.
• 59:03
  And it's like, it's so cool. I love that. But
• 59:05
  the important thing with this is who is Enoch
• 59:09
  being told about? He's being told about the Son
• 59:12
  of Man, who He is and what He will do. And His
• 59:15
  connection, the Son of Man, is distinct from
• 59:19
  a human because He is with and being upheld by
• 59:23
  the Lord of Spirits, by the Head of Days, who
• 59:27
  Daniel calls the Ancient of Days. Yes. Yeah,
• 59:30
  so you have all these parallels putting into
• 59:33
  place what... Daniel is actually talking about
• 59:37
  yeah, and arguably we can say and we talked about
• 59:39
  this in episode 2 if you go back and watch that
• 59:42
  We kind of set the context of what the book of
• 59:44
  Enoch is yeah, and potentially when it was written
• 59:48
  right and just a brief synopsis of that essentially
• 59:53
  either The book of or one Enoch Because one Enoch
• 59:59
  two Enoch three Enoch are very very different
• 1:00:02
  things they are but one Enoch is we know that
• 1:00:10
  it is at least written around 300 BC at the earliest.
• 1:00:21
  So it's at least that old. What that means is,
• 1:00:26
  as I reference in the song, Jesus is born in
• 1:00:32
  roughly zero. Yeah. Or supposed to be. But like,
• 1:00:38
  obviously, you know, some people, hopefully in
• 1:00:41
  the comments, are going to push back on that
• 1:00:43
  because he's not born at zero. No, he's born.
• 1:00:46
  Yeah, there's there's. Yeah. And maybe we can
• 1:00:50
  do that research. Yeah. But anyways, if that's
• 1:00:55
  true, the Book of Enoch is written at least before
• 1:00:57
  Jesus is. incarnate on the scene. So what that
• 1:01:02
  means is, and the reason we know that is because
• 1:01:06
  the Book of Enoch, one Enoch is found at Qumran
• 1:01:11
  with the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Dead Sea Scrolls
• 1:01:14
  were at Qumran maintained by the Essenes who
• 1:01:20
  were a priestly hood that specifically preserved
• 1:01:24
  that. and they preserved it along with the Torah.
• 1:01:31
  And that means, and Qumran is just outside of
• 1:01:34
  Jerusalem. So this is a priesthood that's preserving
• 1:01:40
  ancient texts and important scriptures. And they
• 1:01:44
  believed themselves to be the children of light
• 1:01:47
  and the only pure ones. So they were pretty...
• 1:01:52
  tight on what they allowed into their library.
• 1:01:56
  So what that tells us is essentially it would
• 1:02:00
  be very likely that Jesus read one Enoch growing
• 1:02:07
  up. Like almost certainly he did. I mean for
• 1:02:12
  how much he seems to reference it If he had never
• 1:02:17
  read it, it's pretty amazing. It would be kind
• 1:02:20
  of incredible if he never read it but made that
• 1:02:21
  many connections. Sure, and it's not lost on
• 1:02:24
  us that Jesus is also before all things. Yeah.
• 1:02:28
  So Jesus doesn't need to read it as a kid. No.
• 1:02:31
  Because he is before all things. And this isn't
• 1:02:35
  a conversation about his divinity and his humanity.
• 1:02:37
  That's a whole other separate topic. But let's
• 1:02:42
  just entertain the fact that Or let's just entertain
• 1:02:45
  the idea that like, okay, most difficult scenario,
• 1:02:51
  Jesus has no divine memory until the Spirit of
• 1:02:57
  God lands upon him at baptism. And reveals, yeah.
• 1:03:00
  Like, let's just say that. Yeah. If that's true,
• 1:03:03
  he's still probably very, very likely read 1
• 1:03:07
  Enoch. I mean, at the age he was when he was
• 1:03:09
  baptized, Yeah, he would have already been reading
• 1:03:12
  all these things. Yeah, you had to have yeah
• 1:03:14
  from to be considered a rabbi in the position
• 1:03:16
  He was in exactly. Yeah, he would have already
• 1:03:18
  been very well familiar With all of this. Yeah.
• 1:03:22
  Yeah. Yeah and Yeah, and I really we need to
• 1:03:27
  do a whole breakdown of Ezekiel just talk about
• 1:03:30
  Ezekiel's incredible Yeah, because like we were
• 1:03:32
  talking about the other day in Ezekiel the Lord
• 1:03:38
  references three righteous men That's right.
• 1:03:40
  And those three righteous men are Noah, Daniel,
• 1:03:48
  and Job. Yeah. And the Lord references them over
• 1:03:52
  and over again, like Ezekiel 14 -15, chapter
• 1:03:55
  14 -15. Yeah. And when he does that, you kind
• 1:03:58
  of go like, okay, well, Son of Man is mentioned
• 1:04:01
  in Daniel. Well, the Lord references Daniel as
• 1:04:06
  a righteous man. over and over again in the book
• 1:04:09
  of Ezekiel, calls him by name. And so you have
• 1:04:12
  all these parallel things where all of this stuff
• 1:04:15
  is kind of working together and there's this
• 1:04:16
  larger context of trustworthiness in where this
• 1:04:20
  language is coming from and all of these things
• 1:04:23
  kind of build up to this idea that you have this
• 1:04:28
  son of man title that what we're talking about
• 1:04:32
  is something that I think is is less about, and
• 1:04:35
  really what we wanted to have a discussion about
• 1:04:37
  is do things like this actually make the one
• 1:04:41
  Enoch specifically? Does it make it able to be
• 1:04:45
  canonized? Does it make it something that we
• 1:04:47
  need to reference? And I think the truth is,
• 1:04:49
  it kind of goes back to really the whole point
• 1:04:52
  of this podcast, which is for the sake of having
• 1:04:57
  conversations, to make things that maybe we think
• 1:05:00
  are massive. That actually aren't and yeah and
• 1:05:05
  talk about them and see how big they actually
• 1:05:07
  are and then have conversations about things
• 1:05:10
  where we go maybe this should be more a part
• 1:05:13
  of our daily conversations and I think the idea
• 1:05:15
  of the Son of Man should be Paid attention to
• 1:05:18
  more because it was like it was a very important
• 1:05:21
  thing that Jesus used yeah, and we don't talk
• 1:05:24
  about it and I think one of them is because we
• 1:05:26
  The resource we have to go to talk about it.
• 1:05:29
  We're a little bit afraid of yeah, I think that
• 1:05:31
  was that was a big thing that I know we talked
• 1:05:34
  about that I really wanted to try to do when
• 1:05:36
  we opened this one in particular, this episode,
• 1:05:39
  was I want to make it less scary. And even for
• 1:05:44
  us talking about this with Enoch is like there's
• 1:05:49
  such, I think, wisdom that can be taken from
• 1:05:52
  it that help connect some dots against ... It's
• 1:05:57
  not a measuring stick. Scripture is the measuring
• 1:05:59
  stick. But it's like, this can help us connect
• 1:06:02
  some dots and understand, at the very least,
• 1:06:04
  what did they know? How did they think? Why did
• 1:06:06
  they say this? Why did He say this? Yeah, because
• 1:06:11
  one of the things that you wanted to discuss
• 1:06:12
  in this topic is not why is the Book of Enoch,
• 1:06:19
  should it be canonized? Is it apocryphal in a
• 1:06:23
  way that's dangerous to us? Is it something where
• 1:06:27
  like, should we stay away from it? Even episode
• 1:06:33
  two I posed the question, was it written by demons?
• 1:06:36
  Which is, we're gonna get to that in a later
• 1:06:39
  episode. We're kind of hinting at it, kind of
• 1:06:43
  answering it sneakily in this one. A little bit.
• 1:06:46
  Not directly. So what I will say as well, And
• 1:06:51
  we talk about, because it is a big question that
• 1:06:53
  people bring up, like, oh, well, should it be
• 1:06:54
  canonized? And I think it's kind of a ridiculous
• 1:06:56
  question. I'm not making fun of anyone when I
• 1:06:59
  say that, because it's a question I've had, but
• 1:07:01
  I think it's ridiculous because it shouldn't
• 1:07:05
  matter. Right. And I think that's, it's funny
• 1:07:08
  because there are plenty of times where people,
• 1:07:10
  and I think you mentioned this in episode two,
• 1:07:12
  where we'll look at something and be like, oh,
• 1:07:14
  well, it's not scripture, so let's not pay attention
• 1:07:17
  to it. Right. But yet we pay attention to so
• 1:07:19
  many non -scriptural resources to understand
• 1:07:21
  scripture better. And it's like, why don't we
• 1:07:23
  just go back to the source? Yeah. And it's like,
• 1:07:27
  I'm not saying base your theology on what the
• 1:07:29
  book of Enoch says. Base your theology on what
• 1:07:32
  scripture says. Right. But we can help inform
• 1:07:35
  what scripture says by what it's written about
• 1:07:38
  what influenced it to be written yeah exactly
• 1:07:41
  because if we can go like all right so uh i'll
• 1:07:46
  read this commentary or this pastor wrote this
• 1:07:48
  thing about like i don't know any pastor that
• 1:07:52
  that decides to take a sermon series and put
• 1:07:55
  it into a book you read that and you're like
• 1:07:57
  whoa this opened the scriptures for me great
• 1:08:01
  like that's not that's good that's the point
• 1:08:02
  that is a good thing like like great and some
• 1:08:05
  you know like there is the other side of it where
• 1:08:07
  it's like whatever i don't care about that but
• 1:08:10
  the thing is is like okay if anything bears witness
• 1:08:14
  to the testimony of jesus it then that that's
• 1:08:19
  good Like whatever that is. And it's weird to
• 1:08:22
  me that there are ancient texts that Jesus himself
• 1:08:25
  references where we're like, don't read that.
• 1:08:29
  But the truth is, Enoch right now is a hot button
• 1:08:34
  issue on a whole other, like it's a hot button
• 1:08:38
  name, phrase, book because of another part of
• 1:08:43
  it that it brings context to that we're not going
• 1:08:48
  to get into on this. this episode. We will at
• 1:08:51
  some point talk about it. I don't see a lot of
• 1:08:54
  people talking about what we're talking about
• 1:08:56
  with Enoch. I agree. And I think that's, it's
• 1:09:00
  funny, so I'll even bring up St. Augustine in
• 1:09:03
  his book, The City of God, because he was vehemently
• 1:09:07
  against canonizing the book of Enoch. And I happen
• 1:09:10
  to agree with him on that point. Why he doesn't
• 1:09:12
  want to canonize it, I disagree with. But one
• 1:09:16
  of the things that he even says within his statement
• 1:09:20
  of like, let's not even entertain this. He's
• 1:09:24
  like, I won't deny that there are some divinely
• 1:09:26
  inspired parts of it. There's things that seem
• 1:09:29
  to be divinely inspired. Because he even makes
• 1:09:33
  reference that we see in Jude, or we see Jesus,
• 1:09:36
  or even 2nd Peter, make reference to the Book
• 1:09:40
  of Enoch so directly that you have to be blind
• 1:09:42
  in both eyes to not see it. And even then you'd
• 1:09:45
  probably still see it. And so it's like he even
• 1:09:49
  acknowledges those things. But he's like, but
• 1:09:52
  I don't think we should make it on the same level
• 1:09:54
  with the rest of scripture. And I agree. And
• 1:09:57
  but it's like to that's like he's not he's not
• 1:09:59
  saying everything in it is wrong. Your faith
• 1:10:01
  will be wrecked. It's like, no, he's just saying
• 1:10:04
  I don't think we should put it at the same level.
• 1:10:07
  Right. Yeah. And I don't know that like I would
• 1:10:10
  say that there are things that are referenced
• 1:10:14
  in the New Testament. and in the Old Testament
• 1:10:17
  that are clearly knowledgeable of Enoch. And
• 1:10:24
  that doesn't mean that they're saying that the
• 1:10:28
  whole of Enoch, otherwise it would have just
• 1:10:32
  been in. It would have just been part of the
• 1:10:35
  whole thing. But you also have a lot of other
• 1:10:39
  things that are referenced as well. Paul brings
• 1:10:42
  in conversations of other philosophers. And the
• 1:10:46
  thing is, it's not like they're, like really,
• 1:10:51
  the easiest way to say it is all things are pointing
• 1:10:55
  towards the creator. Whether they're trying to
• 1:10:59
  pull away as a deception and trying to imitate,
• 1:11:04
  it all still points back to him. And so that's
• 1:11:07
  the thing is like, what we're saying is, and
• 1:11:09
  trying to bring context to is, There is one Enoch
• 1:11:13
  that I think maybe needs to be a little bit more
• 1:11:17
  part of the conversation because there are things
• 1:11:20
  in it that I think when you cross examine, they
• 1:11:27
  bring a little bit more of a fuller picture.
• 1:11:30
  to who Jesus is and the testimony of Jesus. And
• 1:11:35
  the simple of it, we kind of talked about it
• 1:11:37
  a little bit in the last episode, but because
• 1:11:39
  of what we're specifically referencing now from
• 1:11:41
  Enoch, it's kind of important to say that the
• 1:11:44
  Jews didn't want it apart because it reinforced
• 1:11:48
  who Jesus was. So actually, when the passage
• 1:11:53
  that you just talked about, Caiaphas tears his
• 1:11:56
  clothes because he's saying, he is the son of
• 1:12:00
  man that Caiaphas knows is prophetic through
• 1:12:06
  the mouth of Enoch. And now, whether it was Enoch
• 1:12:12
  seventh from Adam, we can let Jude talk about
• 1:12:17
  that. It's Jude, right? That says that. I believe.
• 1:12:21
  Maybe that's the second Peter. No, that's Hebrews.
• 1:12:24
  It is Hebrews. It's Hebrews. Yeah. I mean, it's
• 1:12:27
  in a lot of places. It is, yeah. But it's one
• 1:12:30
  of those things where, like, I think it should
• 1:12:31
  be part of the conversation not as canon, but
• 1:12:34
  it should be part of the conversation as bringing
• 1:12:36
  a fuller picture of what is being referenced
• 1:12:39
  and also not minimizing the fact that the Scriptures
• 1:12:43
  don't happen in an isolated chamber. Yeah. It's
• 1:12:48
  happening in the middle of everything. Yeah,
• 1:12:51
  absolutely. The Bible comes on the scene. Like
• 1:12:53
  Jesus comes on the scene, the word becomes flesh.
• 1:12:57
  There's all these things that happen not from
• 1:12:59
  the beginning. Moses writes the first thing,
• 1:13:02
  right? But technically the oldest book that we
• 1:13:06
  would have would be Job. So it's like you get
• 1:13:08
  all this stuff and it's like the world is happening,
• 1:13:11
  creation is happening, and then God speaks into
• 1:13:14
  it. It's not like God speaks into it and then
• 1:13:20
  everything else is laid out. perfectly by God.
• 1:13:24
  It's like he speaks, everything is brought to
• 1:13:27
  order, and then chaos happens again. And then
• 1:13:31
  he speaks back into it and says, all right, well,
• 1:13:34
  if you follow this, this will help you. That's
• 1:13:38
  a bit of a rabbit trail. I feel like we've been
• 1:13:40
  doing pretty good without rabbit trails. But
• 1:13:41
  I think they're important sometimes. Because
• 1:13:43
  I mean, alongside that, and I think this is a
• 1:13:46
  very big point that you're making, and then I
• 1:13:48
  want you to bring up that reference chart too
• 1:13:50
  that you have. is when we look at scripture,
• 1:13:54
  it is easy to disconnect it from history. Disconnect
• 1:13:58
  it from reality in a lot of ways. I did that
• 1:14:00
  when I was a kid. And it's funny because then
• 1:14:03
  I'm like, yeah, yeah, so Paul, he went and talked
• 1:14:05
  to these Roman guys. Peter, they went and saw
• 1:14:09
  this Julius Caesar dude. Like, cool, whatever.
• 1:14:12
  Keep going. I don't know if it's Julius Caesar,
• 1:14:13
  but they saw Caesar. And so it's like, okay,
• 1:14:17
  neat, neat. And then in history class, we're
• 1:14:20
  like, yeah, and we have Ramius and Remus and
• 1:14:22
  they started this, you know, this, they ended
• 1:14:25
  up leading to creating the largest empire known
• 1:14:28
  to man. Yeah. Which goes into this whole thing
• 1:14:31
  where like, yeah, these guys are awesome looking.
• 1:14:33
  This is what they used to look like and blah,
• 1:14:35
  blah, blah. And then we don't often make the
• 1:14:38
  connection that. That's who they're talking about
• 1:14:40
  who did policy he saw Caesar who is Caesar he
• 1:14:44
  ruled the known world All of it like he was in
• 1:14:47
  charge of this. That's what they did And so it's
• 1:14:51
  like we we disconnect it from what's happening
• 1:14:53
  around that time and I think this is where Ancient
• 1:14:59
  books I'm a big ancient literature person. I
• 1:15:02
  love old books. So it's a it's a window into
• 1:15:05
  a time that we can't experience anymore. And
• 1:15:08
  this is kind of our way to have an insight into
• 1:15:11
  it. And so at the very least, with books like
• 1:15:15
  Enoch, in the same way books like The Odyssey
• 1:15:18
  or The Iliad or Herodotus or I can't think of
• 1:15:23
  the Canterbury Tales, those are the big ones
• 1:15:26
  I have in my mind. All those things, it's like,
• 1:15:29
  why bother reading those then? Because they give
• 1:15:31
  us insight into history. Yeah. And history is
• 1:15:33
  such an important thing because if those who
• 1:15:36
  fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.
• 1:15:38
  Yeah, it's wisdom. It is. It's wisdom that we
• 1:15:40
  can build on the backs of what other people knew.
• 1:15:43
  How can we become better Christians and better
• 1:15:46
  informed on what the scriptures are teaching,
• 1:15:48
  what the story of God is and what our place in
• 1:15:50
  that story is? Well, it's to read what they wrote,
• 1:15:54
  but also read what they wrote about. what influenced
• 1:15:59
  them and how they wrote. And that just helps
• 1:16:02
  us to build upon the wisdom that they had and
• 1:16:05
  the wisdom that they're imparting, so we can
• 1:16:07
  take that further, so that we can establish better
• 1:16:10
  relationships with God, knowing better who He
• 1:16:13
  is and what He wants from us. Yeah, and it can
• 1:16:18
  even be argued to that point that... that when
• 1:16:23
  Solomon asked for wisdom, the wisdom he receives
• 1:16:26
  was actually not for him, but for us. That he
• 1:16:30
  was a conduit by which we could have the wisdom
• 1:16:34
  of God given to us through the hands of Solomon.
• 1:16:38
  Just like all of the prophets had to live out
• 1:16:42
  the testimony that they were trying to, where
• 1:16:45
  Ezekiel is, the Lord puts cords on him and he
• 1:16:49
  has to lay on his side. For a certain amount
• 1:16:52
  of days and he has to lay and he's stuck there
• 1:16:54
  and he's doing it In front of everybody. Yeah
• 1:16:58
  in order to show them. Hey, this is what the
• 1:17:00
  lord will do to you if you do not obey him Yeah,
• 1:17:02
  um and it's the same thing with solomon and it's
• 1:17:05
  that idea of like the lord is trying to impart
• 1:17:08
  to us a way to live a life That will benefit
• 1:17:14
  us. Yeah, if we'll just obey all he wants us
• 1:17:18
  to do is obey and it's not because He wants us
• 1:17:22
  to do our own thing. It's because if we do our
• 1:17:25
  own thing, it only ends badly. He has the instruction.
• 1:17:32
  It's like, I think about that, if you have kids,
• 1:17:37
  it's like, kids can't just go. They don't just
• 1:17:43
  work. Yeah, like you have to be shown boundaries.
• 1:17:47
  It's like Psalm 23. It's like the rod and the
• 1:17:50
  staff are my comfort Yeah, and the rod and the
• 1:17:53
  staff are that sounds like a bad thing But it's
• 1:17:55
  not it's the boundary of the Lord is keeping
• 1:17:58
  me within the sheepfold And because it's safe
• 1:18:02
  there he can protect me there. I can go out anytime
• 1:18:04
  I want to yeah, but if I do I'm gonna long to
• 1:18:08
  be back in the sheepfold And so yeah, over and
• 1:18:12
  over again. I think one of the things that...
• 1:18:15
  Well, it's like we're hired for a job we don't
• 1:18:18
  know how to do the work. So it's like, I can't
• 1:18:20
  fulfill the role I've been given because I don't
• 1:18:22
  understand the... I don't have the instructions.
• 1:18:25
  And he's like, I'm giving them to you if you
• 1:18:26
  just do it. And there is that comfort, like you're
• 1:18:29
  saying, because now we're fulfilling the function
• 1:18:32
  that we were created for. Yeah. Which that's
• 1:18:36
  a podcast we have to have. It is. That is a rabbit
• 1:18:40
  trail. No, but it kind of sets that up. But I
• 1:18:43
  did want to read this because this is this is
• 1:18:46
  one of those like we talked a lot about maybe
• 1:18:49
  this is the last passage I'll read and then we
• 1:18:52
  can start to wrap it up because this is one of
• 1:18:54
  those things that like as I'm reading this and
• 1:18:57
  going through there's a lot of things in one
• 1:19:01
  Enoch that are pretty profound. that it's like,
• 1:19:06
  like really all I'll say is, um, I think, I think
• 1:19:09
  we could play a game of like, is this one Enoch
• 1:19:13
  or is it new King James version? Like it pretty
• 1:19:17
  easily, there's a lot of stuff, like way more
• 1:19:21
  than you think. And, and it's all like pretty
• 1:19:25
  positive. But again, to reiterate the point that
• 1:19:30
  we've said multiple times, the Bible, the written
• 1:19:33
  word of God, the canonized 66 books of the Bible
• 1:19:36
  is all that's all you need. Yeah, it is actually
• 1:19:39
  all that you need. But there are things that
• 1:19:43
  can make those 66 books a little bit richer.
• 1:19:47
  And I feel like as you were talking to like for
• 1:19:50
  me as a as a kid that grew up in the early 2000s
• 1:19:55
  and there were bands doing things that I loved.
• 1:19:58
  One of the things I used to love to do was look
• 1:20:00
  at their influences. and go like, why did they
• 1:20:03
  sound like this? Who influenced them? Because
• 1:20:07
  the truth is, which maybe I shouldn't open up
• 1:20:12
  that can of worms, but the truth is is that we
• 1:20:16
  all are influenced by everything that we come
• 1:20:19
  in contact with. And so being able to categorize
• 1:20:23
  that stuff and pave our own way, absorbing. what
• 1:20:27
  is good and unique to us in order to live out
• 1:20:31
  exactly what we were designed to do. But I just
• 1:20:34
  wanted to read this passage. So this is 1 Enoch
• 1:20:37
  48, two through seven. It says, and at that hour,
• 1:20:42
  that son of man was named in the presence of
• 1:20:44
  the Lord of Spirits and his name before the head
• 1:20:47
  of days. Yea, before the sun and the signs were
• 1:20:51
  created, before the stars of the heavens were
• 1:20:54
  made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.
• 1:21:00
  He shall be a staff to the righteous, whereon
• 1:21:03
  to stay themselves and not fall. And He shall
• 1:21:08
  be the light of the Gentiles, and the hope of
• 1:21:11
  those who are troubled of heart. All who dwell
• 1:21:15
  on earth shall fall down and worship before Him,
• 1:21:18
  and will praise and bless and celebrate with
• 1:21:21
  song the Lord of Spirits. And for this reason
• 1:21:25
  hath He been chosen and hidden before Him, before
• 1:21:29
  the creation of the world, and for evermore.
• 1:21:33
  And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed
• 1:21:35
  Him to the holy and righteous, for He hath preserved
• 1:21:39
  the lot of the righteous, because they have hated
• 1:21:42
  and despised this world of unrighteousness, and
• 1:21:46
  have hated all its works and ways in the name
• 1:21:49
  of the Lord of Spirits. For in His name they
• 1:21:52
  are saved, and according to His good pleasure
• 1:21:55
  hath it been in regard to their life." If that
• 1:21:58
  doesn't sound like Luke 2, I don't know what...
• 1:22:02
  Like it's one of those things where as I'm reading
• 1:22:04
  it I'm going, this is like... It's just lighting
• 1:22:08
  me up of like, before the sun and the signs were
• 1:22:12
  created, before the stars of the heavens were
• 1:22:15
  made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.
• 1:22:19
  That sounds like John 1. And then it goes in,
• 1:22:22
  He shall be a staff to the righteous wherein
• 1:22:24
  to stay themselves and not fall, Psalm 23. And
• 1:22:28
  He shall be the light of the Gentiles, Luke 2.
• 1:22:32
  That's one of those things where you go, the
• 1:22:34
  light of the Gentiles. That's not in the Old
• 1:22:36
  Testament. No. It does not say it like that.
• 1:22:39
  But a light to the Gentiles. And then it goes
• 1:22:42
  on at the end and says, for in His name they
• 1:22:44
  are saved. And according to His good pleasure,
• 1:22:48
  hath it been in regard to their life. Yeah. For
• 1:22:51
  in His name they are saved. Yeah. Yeah. It's
• 1:22:54
  crazy because that, like talk about testimony
• 1:22:57
  of Jesus. It's like that ideology didn't exist
• 1:23:00
  in the Old Testament. No. No, but even even in
• 1:23:05
  this the fact that But at the same time sorry
• 1:23:09
  I'm gonna say but at the same time it does exist
• 1:23:11
  right, but it's in very unique ways and it's
• 1:23:15
  funny cuz it's like for us we see it's like What's
• 1:23:20
  an example is like Moses when the people are
• 1:23:23
  bit by snakes And it's like, and then it's like
• 1:23:27
  through looking at the staff of the serpent is
• 1:23:30
  how they received their healing. Oh, right. There's
• 1:23:32
  all these like little hints and stuff that are
• 1:23:35
  given that we view as like, oh, he's just secretly
• 1:23:37
  teasing it a little bit. Like all these little
• 1:23:40
  like foreshadowing. Yeah. But it's like, but
• 1:23:43
  this was already, this already was already being
• 1:23:46
  told. This knowledge was around at the time.
• 1:23:49
  Even if it was just orally, it's like. they would
• 1:23:52
  have known this and it wouldn't have been this
• 1:23:54
  like little hint it's like no it would have been
• 1:23:56
  clearly attached to it right in the same way
• 1:23:58
  it's like if i do something that foreshadows
• 1:24:00
  something of christ it's like you wouldn't or
• 1:24:02
  if i do something that's symbolic of that you're
• 1:24:04
  not like oh what is he hinting at you're like
• 1:24:06
  no i know exactly what you're doing yeah because
• 1:24:07
  i know the story of christ yes yeah yeah and
• 1:24:10
  that's that's the whole thing is like you have
• 1:24:12
  all of this like it even says in here um before
• 1:24:17
  and for this reason hath he had been chosen and
• 1:24:20
  hidden before him before the creation of the
• 1:24:23
  world and for evermore. And there's this idea
• 1:24:27
  through the Old Testament as well where it's
• 1:24:30
  like Christ is hidden in the Father until the
• 1:24:33
  appointed time. There's all these things that
• 1:24:36
  are like, if you have ears to hear and eyes to
• 1:24:38
  see, the Lord is hidden for those who, like this
• 1:24:44
  passage says, for those who despise unrighteousness
• 1:24:47
  and want to live righteously. That's who the
• 1:24:52
  Lord is hidden for. Those who are seeking righteousness,
• 1:24:55
  who are seeking Him. And that's what's crazy
• 1:24:58
  is like, now I feel like I'm preaching off of
• 1:25:00
  1 Enoch, but it's one of those things where like,
• 1:25:03
  it's crazy because I go through that and I'm
• 1:25:04
  like, yeah, it's Luke 2, John 1, Psalm 23. It's
• 1:25:08
  like, all this stuff is here. Now, arguably Psalm
• 1:25:11
  23 is written before 1 Enoch, but potentially
• 1:25:15
  not, because if the seventh from Adam writes
• 1:25:17
  it, then potentially, one Enoch is preserved
• 1:25:21
  with Noah on the ark. Right. Which we didn't
• 1:25:24
  even get into that. No. And that's another thing.
• 1:25:27
  It's like just to tease at that. Yeah. I think
• 1:25:29
  just to add like that excitement hopefully is
• 1:25:32
  like there's so much inside of an Enoch, first
• 1:25:36
  Enoch, one Enoch that teases at Christ as Messiah,
• 1:25:42
  teases the flood. It teases revelation. Right.
• 1:25:45
  It's like all these things are with it. It's
• 1:25:47
  so comprehensive in some ways. Yeah. And it's
• 1:25:49
  like, this was the seventh one from Adam. It
• 1:25:52
  was, all of this was revealed in small bites.
• 1:25:56
  Cause there are some things where, and it's significant
• 1:25:59
  of what we see even in Revelation, where Enoch
• 1:26:02
  has said, I have stuff for us today and there's
• 1:26:05
  stuff that will be hidden for later. He still
• 1:26:08
  talks a little bit, but only what he's allowed
• 1:26:11
  to say. And it's like, what do we see in Revelation?
• 1:26:14
  Well, we're seeing Daniel, I'm sorry, where Daniel's
• 1:26:16
  like, I have a vision for us now. that's important,
• 1:26:19
  and there's stuff that's sealed. And John reveals
• 1:26:22
  that in Revelation, what Daniel had sealed away,
• 1:26:24
  because it wasn't time for them to know that
• 1:26:27
  information. Yeah, and then they say, who is
• 1:26:29
  worthy to open the seal? Yeah, exactly. And it's
• 1:26:32
  the Son of Man. Yeah. And it's like, okay, who's
• 1:26:35
  the Son of Man? We go all the way back. And it's
• 1:26:38
  crazy, this existed for such a long time. This
• 1:26:43
  knowledge that was preserved through the flood.
• 1:26:46
  given to Enoch from God, like pretty early on.
• 1:26:51
  Yeah, and that is speculative. It is. Because,
• 1:26:54
  like you said, but like to play that out, you
• 1:26:57
  kind of like, I always like to ask the question,
• 1:27:00
  early on I did ask the question of like, things
• 1:27:04
  like, okay, if the gospel is about Jesus, then
• 1:27:08
  what gospel did Jesus preach? Like asking questions
• 1:27:11
  like that. And you think about like, okay, if
• 1:27:14
  Moses writes, the Torah, the first five books,
• 1:27:18
  did he have scriptures? Like what were his texts?
• 1:27:23
  What were his sacred oral traditions? Does Noah
• 1:27:28
  have sacred oral traditions? Does he have papyrus?
• 1:27:34
  Does he have stuff written down? I'd imagine
• 1:27:37
  that the Tower of Babel had something. Yeah.
• 1:27:41
  That Nimrod had something written down. Oh, now
• 1:27:44
  you're teasing. You know what I mean? Yeah, now
• 1:27:46
  you're teasing. Because it's like, and it's one
• 1:27:52
  of those things where like someone had to write
• 1:27:54
  something down or draw images or however it was,
• 1:27:58
  like there had to be, and maybe it was all oral
• 1:28:00
  tradition, but it's like, what was the oral tradition?
• 1:28:04
  You know what I mean? Right. And how did that
• 1:28:06
  oral tradition point to Jesus? because it did,
• 1:28:10
  it had to have. Yeah, and I think that's the
• 1:28:12
  cool thing, and it's something you said earlier
• 1:28:15
  that I'm gonna bring back up, which is even if
• 1:28:17
  something is a deception, it still points back
• 1:28:20
  to truth, capital T truth. And one of my favorite
• 1:28:23
  examples, and I won't go all the way into it,
• 1:28:26
  which is the Epic of Gilgamesh, even within that,
• 1:28:30
  where they're talking about a flood. And he's
• 1:28:33
  like, okay, well, can we stop this? They're talking
• 1:28:36
  to Utnapishtim, who's the Noahic figure. And
• 1:28:40
  they're like, can we stop this? He's like, no,
• 1:28:42
  whatever El says will come to happen, will happen.
• 1:28:45
  There's nothing we can do to stop this. And El
• 1:28:47
  is creator God? Yes, within that Mesopotamian
• 1:28:52
  worldview. Yeah, that's another episode. Which
• 1:28:54
  is another episode. But even with that, I love
• 1:28:56
  that. the reason why is because even within this
• 1:28:59
  deception, even within this corrupted, because
• 1:29:03
  they point him as the bad guy in it, but they're
• 1:29:06
  even saying like, we acknowledge his authority
• 1:29:08
  overall. And this is the writings that's supposed
• 1:29:11
  to venerate them. And they're still like, no,
• 1:29:14
  he's more powerful. And it's like, so I think
• 1:29:18
  it's like, we do see these traditions and these
• 1:29:20
  writings in other cultures. So like some, there
• 1:29:24
  is knowledge that existed. And it was passed
• 1:29:27
  down. And what I think is so unique and special
• 1:29:30
  about scripture is it says, let's take all that,
• 1:29:32
  and I'm going to recontextualize it for you.
• 1:29:34
  It's like, no, no, no, that's me. That's the
• 1:29:37
  story that we see Jesus, even in Revelation,
• 1:29:39
  when the letters are being written to the churches.
• 1:29:41
  He's bringing up all these gods that the Romans
• 1:29:44
  worship. He says, you got Apollo, he's this and
• 1:29:46
  this, that's me. You see this, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:29:48
  that's me. We see that in Genesis. God said.
• 1:29:52
  Well, there's an Egyptian, their creator, he
• 1:29:56
  spoke things into existence. And God said, uh
• 1:29:59
  -uh, I did that. And then we see, even in Separating
• 1:30:05
  the Waters from the Waters, that's a parallel
• 1:30:07
  to Tiamat and... Marduk. Yes. And it's like,
• 1:30:12
  and God says, uh -uh, it's not him. It's me.
• 1:30:15
  Right. I did that. Yeah. And I think that's the
• 1:30:18
  cool thing about scripture and why it's so authoritative
• 1:30:20
  because they're not copying. They're looking
• 1:30:22
  at this like, you got it wrong. Right. It's not
• 1:30:24
  them. It's me. I did that. Yeah. And I'll show
• 1:30:27
  you. Yeah. And there's conversations that we're
• 1:30:30
  getting into where really what we're talking
• 1:30:33
  about is looking at where is Jesus in all of
• 1:30:37
  this. Yeah. because everything points to him.
• 1:30:41
  And the mistake, I feel like that plagues...
• 1:30:44
  Our I feel like our current like post post -modern
• 1:30:48
  generation. Yeah, is that like well, let's throw
• 1:30:51
  out the Old Testament like how barbaric it was
• 1:30:54
  But the truth is is like it's with it's because
• 1:30:58
  of stuff like this where we're ignoring ancient
• 1:31:00
  texts That it's that God is actually speaking
• 1:31:04
  into creation and going like you guys have these
• 1:31:08
  false gods. Yeah Not fake gods like we talked
• 1:31:12
  about last time, but they're false meaning they're
• 1:31:15
  not the true. God. They are real beings real
• 1:31:19
  gods potentially sons of God Yeah to tease that
• 1:31:25
  but it's it's the idea that God's saying no,
• 1:31:28
  they are an imitation of me I did this. And here's
• 1:31:33
  how I actually did it because they told you something
• 1:31:36
  that was only partially true. And here's how
• 1:31:39
  I did it. And here's how you should live because
• 1:31:42
  this is what they're telling you and that actually
• 1:31:44
  leads to death. You're enslaving yourself to
• 1:31:48
  them and that leads to your death eternally.
• 1:31:52
  But if you enslave your heart to me, it will
• 1:31:55
  bring life and freedom. And it's that idea that
• 1:31:59
  like, If we subscribe to all ancient texts except
• 1:32:04
  the Bible are all bad, they're all evil, they're
• 1:32:11
  all demonic, they're all whatever, the problem
• 1:32:14
  is we're losing the context by which the scriptures
• 1:32:17
  were written into. They're not written into a
• 1:32:21
  vacuum. they're actually speaking, they're preaching
• 1:32:24
  at the world and saying, no, it's this, it's
• 1:32:28
  Paul in Rome. Did you just say this? It's Paul
• 1:32:31
  in Rome where he's saying like, you're worshiping
• 1:32:35
  this God that is unknown to you, but that God,
• 1:32:39
  that's my God, that's the creator God, all these
• 1:32:42
  other gods, those all bow to this God. And you
• 1:32:47
  know about this God, they all know about this
• 1:32:50
  God. all of the other spirits know about the
• 1:32:55
  Lord of Spirits. I've been holding off saying
• 1:32:57
  it because I'm like, oh, it's so good. It's just
• 1:32:59
  right there. But it's that idea. And I think
• 1:33:02
  that that's one of the things that that's why
• 1:33:04
  this is one of those things where I think it
• 1:33:07
  needs to be more central to the Christian conversation,
• 1:33:10
  which is let's stop ignoring ancient texts. specifically
• 1:33:15
  ones where there are passages that are directly
• 1:33:19
  referenced in the Bible because they are the
• 1:33:23
  testimony of Jesus. And we get that from Revelation.
• 1:33:28
  The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
• 1:33:32
  And so that's why I like - And how fitting is
• 1:33:34
  it that they're shouting prophecy at Christ.
• 1:33:37
  Exactly. How fitting is that? Yeah. So they just
• 1:33:39
  shout prophecy, testimony of Jesus, spirit of
• 1:33:43
  prophecy. They just shout it as a visceral reaction.
• 1:33:46
  In a way to make fun of Him. Yeah. But it's like
• 1:33:48
  you're not making fun of Him actually. No. You
• 1:33:50
  think you are. No. No, but you're foreshadowing
• 1:33:53
  what's said in Revelation. Yeah. And also you're
• 1:33:57
  referencing the prophecy being spoken and played
• 1:34:01
  out in real time. Yeah. So that brings the whole
• 1:34:03
  Caiaphas thing all the way back to the middle.
• 1:34:05
  It's amazing, right? Yeah. So yeah, I mean, there's
• 1:34:08
  so much around this, but I think the truth is,
• 1:34:11
  is one Enoch is something we shouldn't shy away
• 1:34:13
  from. We shouldn't canonize it. No. Or fight
• 1:34:17
  for that. But we should also be looking for Jesus
• 1:34:21
  everywhere. Yeah. And if he references something,
• 1:34:28
  maybe it helps us see a fuller picture of who
• 1:34:31
  he is. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, who
• 1:34:35
  are we talking about? Yeah. To use Enoch's, hopefully,
• 1:34:38
  maybe Enoch, his words, is we're talking about
• 1:34:41
  the Lord of Spirits. The Lord of Spirits. He
• 1:34:43
  is the Lord. We have many names for him. And
• 1:34:48
  he has a name that he gave himself when he first
• 1:34:53
  spoke to Moses, saying that, I am the I Am. With
• 1:35:00
  that I think what's so powerful is that is like
• 1:35:02
  he is above everything. He's not just the Lord
• 1:35:05
  of man He's not just Lord of creation the Lord
• 1:35:07
  of spirits. He is the I am the one who just is
• 1:35:12
  Above it all. Yeah Everything has a beginning
• 1:35:15
  everything has an end, but he is right Yeah,
• 1:35:19
  and I think that's I think that's a powerful
• 1:35:21
  thing and if we believe that then I think with
• 1:35:24
  our foundation grounded in the 66 canonized books
• 1:35:28
  of the Bible let's take that knowledge that we
• 1:35:31
  have and let's see what other things testify
• 1:35:36
  to that testimony of Christ. Yeah, so to wrap
• 1:35:40
  it up, I'd say Jesus calls himself the Son of
• 1:35:44
  Man over 80 times. Yeah. And he is using, we
• 1:35:51
  would argue that he's potentially, I mean, we
• 1:35:56
  would argue that he's using the Son of Man reference
• 1:35:59
  from Enoch. The testimony of himself prophesied
• 1:36:05
  in one Enoch is what he's actively referencing.
• 1:36:09
  And it was known by all those around him. And
• 1:36:12
  so when he referenced it, he was actually getting
• 1:36:15
  really specific in ways that maybe the Old Testament
• 1:36:19
  scriptures were slightly more general. And part
• 1:36:23
  of the reason why the Jewish tradition is still
• 1:36:27
  looking for their Messiah, is because there were
• 1:36:30
  other texts like 1 Enoch that were speaking so
• 1:36:34
  specifically to who Jesus was, but they were
• 1:36:37
  sticking with those specific scriptures and missing
• 1:36:41
  the Messiah that they were looking for the whole
• 1:36:43
  time. So where does Son of Man come from? It
• 1:36:48
  comes from 1 Enoch. It also comes from Daniel,
• 1:36:53
  but Daniel potentially comes from one Enoch.
• 1:36:58
  Yeah, and again like talking about the strength
• 1:37:00
  of it. It's like Daniel said, Daniel doesn't
• 1:37:03
  call him the son of man. No. Enoch does. Yes.
• 1:37:08
  And what does Jesus call himself? Right. Calls
• 1:37:10
  himself the son of man. Yeah. And I think there's
• 1:37:13
  something so much more profound in there that
• 1:37:14
  we can pull out when we start connecting dots.
• 1:37:20
  Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what we're
• 1:37:22
  here to do. That's what we're here to do. Try
• 1:37:24
  to just say, well, Sherlock. Martyrs Row. Martyrs
• 1:37:30
  Row. Episode three. Yeah. So like, comment, subscribe,
• 1:37:36
  argue with us. Please, please argue with us.
• 1:37:38
  Just have a conversation. Just when you're listening.
• 1:37:44
  Fight us. Yeah, please. We're ready for it. Not
• 1:37:50
  personally don't fight us personally cuz my feelings
• 1:37:53
  will be hurt but the discussion around this is
• 1:37:57
  important And I think that's what we need to
• 1:37:59
  be talking about, you know discuss with each
• 1:38:02
  other Don't just listen and be a bystander. Yeah,
• 1:38:06
  but engage in the conversation. Yeah Cuz that
• 1:38:10
  expands our faith expands our knowledge. Yes,
• 1:38:12
  and We're called to love Christ more we're called
• 1:38:16
  to test things. Yes, so let's test Test the spirits.
• 1:38:21
  Yeah, because the Lord of spirits is over at
• 1:38:25
  all. Let's go Until next time three two one