Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Baraboo Bonebreaker

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The Baraboo Bonebreaker · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Thad Phillips was a regular kid in the nineties. He
0:10
Speaker 1: loves sports and collecting baseball cards, But little did he
0:15
Speaker 1: know one evening would change his world forever. Today's story
0:19
Speaker 1: is the story of Fad Phillips, and it is a
0:22
Speaker 1: survival story, a story about enduring and fighting for one's life.
0:28
Speaker 1: But it's not only that. It's also a story about
0:32
Speaker 1: just how dark humanity really can get.
0:36
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
0:40
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following podcasts
0:48
Speaker 2: and material intended for a.
0:50
Speaker 1: Mature audience listener discretion. He's advised, Oh, it's cold. It's cold,
1:16
Speaker 1: like cold, cold, like colder than it usually is.
1:19
Speaker 2: For some reason, I see cold.
1:20
Speaker 1: It is like it's cold on my hands. Or maybe
1:23
Speaker 1: I'm just oh, maybe I'm just warmer than normal because
1:27
Speaker 1: summer is actually finally fucking here. I think that's what
1:29
Speaker 1: it is. Never mind, I solve the problem.
1:31
Speaker 2: Yay, we have like twenty degree weather.
1:34
Speaker 1: It's a back so nice, it's finally here. I can't
1:38
Speaker 1: get enough of it, which which we just decided today
1:41
Speaker 1: that we're finally going to go mountain biking because snow
1:44
Speaker 1: is actually gone. Yeah.
1:45
Speaker 2: Actually, I was driving around today looking for locations for
1:48
Speaker 2: photo shoots, and I was like, why did I not, Like,
1:52
Speaker 2: did I not plan to go paddleboarding for like an
1:54
Speaker 2: hour somewhere? Wrong?
1:55
Speaker 1: I didn't.
1:56
Speaker 2: You, I don't know the water would be cold as shit?
1:59
Speaker 1: Oh yeah for sure.
2:01
Speaker 2: But so like you would hope that you wouldn't fall in,
2:04
Speaker 2: I guess would you risk that?
2:06
Speaker 1: Isn't that usually the hope when you go paddle boarding
2:08
Speaker 1: that you don't fall in?
2:09
Speaker 2: Well, unless you're like wearing your bathing suit, you're ready to.
2:12
Speaker 1: Go, but then that's just swimming. Yeah, because the point
2:15
Speaker 1: of paddle boarding is to be on the board, is
2:17
Speaker 1: it not?
2:18
Speaker 2: It is, So I'm debating going paddle boarding as well.
2:20
Speaker 2: But it's like it's a little bit scarier than mountain biking,
2:23
Speaker 2: as if you fall and you're gonna.
2:25
Speaker 1: Fuck touche toochee. But the point is we're actually gonna
2:29
Speaker 1: be getting to enjoy summer soon, warm outdoor activities, not
2:33
Speaker 1: just cooped up in a tiny home surrounded by snow
2:36
Speaker 1: and darkness. Yeah, so that's always a bonus.
2:39
Speaker 2: It feels like we're just like breathing in life again.
2:41
Speaker 1: Hey, oh definitely, And speaking of breathing in, you breathed
2:45
Speaker 1: in many donuts on the weekend.
2:48
Speaker 2: I did.
2:49
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone knows what like mini donuts
2:51
Speaker 1: specifically are from, like a fair, Yeah, like the tiny ones,
2:54
Speaker 1: like the cinnamon sugar on it that.
2:56
Speaker 2: Are basically just like deep right to glorious.
3:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's basically crack in the shape of a donut. Yeah, delicious.
3:03
Speaker 1: So we just had a local little comic con here
3:05
Speaker 1: this past weekend called Northern Fan Con. I go every year,
3:09
Speaker 1: and you stop buying, and you're just like, oh, you
3:11
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a good time. You see
3:12
Speaker 1: me while I'm there, And of course there was a
3:14
Speaker 1: food truck with mini donuts and you indulged.
3:17
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I go. I go every year too, I'm
3:20
Speaker 2: pretty sure. I don't know if I've missed a year.
3:22
Speaker 2: Have I missed a year?
3:23
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Possibly, But you only go because
3:26
Speaker 1: you support me. Yeah, I'm a nerd dressing up in
3:28
Speaker 1: costumes and selling stuff and doing the whole nine thing.
3:32
Speaker 2: So yeah, And like, they don't always have many donuts,
3:35
Speaker 2: so that was a perk, but they usually have delicious lemonade,
3:38
Speaker 2: so I yeah, there are some perks for me.
3:40
Speaker 1: Well, and you did bring me mini donuts too. I
3:42
Speaker 1: shouldn't say you're the only one. You brought me many donuts,
3:45
Speaker 1: so I was really happy.
3:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't need those mini donuts, but they hit good.
3:49
Speaker 1: They did. Before we get into the show today, before
3:53
Speaker 1: we talk a bit about Fad Phillips, we of course
3:55
Speaker 1: got a Thike Patriot thank our patrons, Yes we do.
4:00
Speaker 1: So we had a few patrons sign up this week
4:01
Speaker 1: over on Patreon. We had Dan Kane, Roger Reid and
4:05
Speaker 1: read Autumn join us over on Patreon. Thank you yo,
4:08
Speaker 1: Thank you guys. And they're actually getting awesome. They're getting
4:10
Speaker 1: an extra Patreon episode. They are because we kind of
4:14
Speaker 1: dropped the ball and a little delayed on the episode
4:17
Speaker 1: from the previous month. Yes, so we're making it up
4:20
Speaker 1: to them. They're getting an extra exclusive episode.
4:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, can we have something else to talk
4:25
Speaker 2: about here? And this is kind of exciting. So we
4:29
Speaker 2: did a second launch of our artisan mugs, we did, Yeah,
4:33
Speaker 2: And so we launched them I don't even know, Friday.
4:37
Speaker 1: Friday at eight a m. Pacific Standard time.
4:39
Speaker 2: Okay, and it was not a complete shit show this time.
4:42
Speaker 1: It wasn't.
4:43
Speaker 2: And there's still some left there.
4:45
Speaker 1: Is, so if you guys want them, link is going
4:47
Speaker 1: to be in the description of this podcast. We'll find
4:49
Speaker 1: out how long they last. But there are a few
4:50
Speaker 1: left over on our Etsy shop.
4:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
4:52
Speaker 1: So last time we broke Etsy and they like banned
4:56
Speaker 1: our shop, we had to go ask for it back
4:57
Speaker 1: because they were selling so quick. But this time, the
5:01
Speaker 1: first day went half of them sold and we still
5:03
Speaker 1: got a few left. So go check it out if
5:05
Speaker 1: you want them. Yeah.
5:06
Speaker 2: So they're a little bit bigger than last time. They're
5:07
Speaker 2: a black pottery mug. They have like glazed drips on them,
5:11
Speaker 2: and they say stay wicked.
5:12
Speaker 1: They're pretty cool and like most of the cup is
5:14
Speaker 1: still like the raw finish finish on it, which I
5:19
Speaker 1: know is not for everybody. We're probably gonna do some
5:21
Speaker 1: different ones down the road, but for now it's got
5:23
Speaker 1: that like raw look to it and it says stay wicked.
5:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
5:25
Speaker 1: So it's a fantastic way to have your coffee in
5:27
Speaker 1: the morning.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely.
5:29
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I think that's enough self promotion aside.
5:31
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the story. You ready for it, Let's
5:33
Speaker 1: do it? Okay, have you heard of bad Phillips?
5:37
Speaker 2: Now?
5:38
Speaker 1: No?
5:38
Speaker 2: I am like I feel like I'm the worst true
5:41
Speaker 2: crime fan ever now because half the shit I just
5:44
Speaker 2: am like, no, I've never heard of it.
5:46
Speaker 1: Well, I mean there is a lot out there, especially
5:49
Speaker 1: when people like really talk about certain stories. It's everyone
5:52
Speaker 1: has one that tends to sit with them. So it's like, oh,
5:56
Speaker 1: this one, and then someone else be like, oh that one,
5:58
Speaker 1: and then someone else, Oh, well this one. So the
6:00
Speaker 1: list tends to go on and on and on.
6:04
Speaker 2: There's no shortage of true crime cases. Let's just say that.
6:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I don't think there ever is going to
6:11
Speaker 1: be either, which is very unfortunate.
6:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it gives us a job or a
6:17
Speaker 2: hobby or something or whatever you want to call it,
6:19
Speaker 2: of sorts, but it also would the preference would be
6:21
Speaker 2: to not have.
6:22
Speaker 1: These, Yeah, to eliminate the crime in the world, the negativity,
6:27
Speaker 1: the terrible shit that happens to people. Yeah, okay, well
6:32
Speaker 1: let's talk about this terrible shit that absolutely happened to Fad. Okay.
6:36
Speaker 1: So it starts on July twenty ninth, in nineteen ninety five,
6:41
Speaker 1: and young thirteen year old boy by the name of
6:43
Speaker 1: Thad Phillips. He was asleep on his couch in a
6:45
Speaker 1: new home in Bearboo, Wisconsin. Him and his family had
6:49
Speaker 1: just moved into the neighborhood and they'd only been there
6:52
Speaker 1: at the new home for a few weeks. It was
6:54
Speaker 1: a new sort of life for the family. They didn't
6:55
Speaker 1: really know any of the neighbors in the block or anything,
6:58
Speaker 1: you know. They were just kind of like the new people, right, Okay,
7:01
Speaker 1: so they're settling in and that's just your normal young kid.
7:05
Speaker 1: He was often outside playing sports, for example, with his friends,
7:09
Speaker 1: enjoying the sunshine. He loved playing baseball, He loved collecting
7:14
Speaker 1: baseball cards, football cards, standard nineties kit yep. And on
7:20
Speaker 1: this particular night, he had fallen asleep on the couch.
7:23
Speaker 1: He was up watching TV and he ended up drifting off,
7:27
Speaker 1: so his sleep was eventually interrupted. He felt himself being
7:31
Speaker 1: lifted off the couch and carried away. Now that had
7:34
Speaker 1: recalled that his parents had taken him to bed when
7:36
Speaker 1: he had passed out on the couch multiple times before.
7:39
Speaker 1: So as he's being carried away, he expected being laid
7:42
Speaker 1: into his bed next moment, But that's not quite what happened.
7:48
Speaker 1: He was still half asleep, but that knew something was
7:51
Speaker 1: kind of wrong. It wasn't his parents that was carrying
7:55
Speaker 1: him off to his bed. A few moments later, he
7:59
Speaker 1: kind of began to come out of his days when
8:01
Speaker 1: he was realizing this wasn't quite right. He was looking
8:05
Speaker 1: up at the stars in the sky above him at night. Jeez,
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Speaker 1: he was being carried away outside his house in someone
8:12
Speaker 1: else's arms. No, that someone was another boy older than that,
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Speaker 1: but still definitely not an adult. He was about the
8:22
Speaker 1: same age as his older brother, and that assumed that
8:25
Speaker 1: it must be maybe one of his friends or something.
8:28
Speaker 1: And this put the boy at about the age of
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Speaker 1: seventeen years old. The boy set Thad down on the cold,
8:33
Speaker 1: damp ground and was calm and friendly when he asked
8:37
Speaker 1: Thatad to run with them. It was an odd request.
8:40
Speaker 1: It was the middle of the night and this boy
8:42
Speaker 1: just carried him out of his house. But Thatad was
8:45
Speaker 1: still dazed, quite out of it. He basically just woke up. Right. Yeah,
8:50
Speaker 1: so he assumed, Okay, this guy's being nice. It seems
8:53
Speaker 1: like he's acting normal, like okay, sure, so he just
8:56
Speaker 1: trusted him and just complied, and without hesitation, just began
9:00
Speaker 1: running down the road.
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Speaker 2: That's so innocent, Hey, yeah it is.
9:06
Speaker 1: Oh, without a question, he trusted him.
9:09
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. Well, because he's like, at that age,
9:12
Speaker 2: you probably have no reason not to trust someone.
9:14
Speaker 1: I guess definitely.
9:15
Speaker 2: I don't know.
9:17
Speaker 1: Oh So the two made their way off into the night,
9:20
Speaker 1: and eventually they arrived at an old rundown house that
9:24
Speaker 1: was about a mile away from where that had lived.
9:27
Speaker 1: They stepped inside and the entire place was an absolute mess.
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Speaker 1: There was garbage strewn about the place and a sharp
9:35
Speaker 1: stench of mold and rotting food lingered in the air.
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Speaker 1: The strange boy then turned to that and officially made
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Speaker 1: his introduction. He said that his name was Joe, and
9:46
Speaker 1: he said he's having a party in which some people
9:48
Speaker 1: will be coming by pretty quick. And he started listing
9:51
Speaker 1: off a few names of people who are going to
9:52
Speaker 1: be coming to said party, and to that surprise, he
9:56
Speaker 1: actually recognized some of the names that he mentioned, some
9:58
Speaker 1: people that he now goes to school with.
10:01
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, so.
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Speaker 1: It didn't seem like, okay, it's not so crazy to
10:07
Speaker 1: think that this might happen. It's weird. He still kind
10:10
Speaker 1: of dazed. He's a young kid. I mean, we're still
10:13
Speaker 1: all learning the world at that point, right.
10:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and then there's some familiality with recognizing of.
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Speaker 1: The names exactly, so that kind of grounds and makes
10:21
Speaker 1: them think, okay, so that this isn't so weird because
10:24
Speaker 1: I should know these people. It's they're going to be
10:27
Speaker 1: here too, so they think they must think it's normal,
10:29
Speaker 1: so I should think it's normal. Yeah, which I mean
10:32
Speaker 1: clearly that's not going to be the case.
10:36
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
10:39
Speaker 1: So anyways, after listing some names, Joe said that while
10:44
Speaker 1: they wait for everyone to show up for the said party,
10:47
Speaker 1: he had some cool model cars upstairs in his room
10:50
Speaker 1: that he wanted to show that and now that specifically
10:53
Speaker 1: stated later on he didn't know why he did, but he,
10:57
Speaker 1: without hesitation, again continued to follow the boys lead. He
11:01
Speaker 1: continued to trust him. He followed him up the stairs
11:04
Speaker 1: the dirty, run down house in the middle of the night.
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Speaker 1: He followed him into a room. And this is where
11:11
Speaker 1: things would take their very dark turn.
11:14
Speaker 2: Oh shit, what happened?
11:16
Speaker 1: Well, what do you think happens?
11:20
Speaker 2: So this is the kid's house, like where he lives,
11:23
Speaker 2: like his home.
11:25
Speaker 1: I never did find clarification exactly on that. I'm assuming
11:28
Speaker 1: it's not.
11:30
Speaker 2: Okay or like the innocent thirteen year old bad thinks
11:35
Speaker 2: that it is.
11:37
Speaker 1: Yes, I never did find clarification on the actual address
11:40
Speaker 1: of this quote. Joe. I'm assuming this is not his place,
11:44
Speaker 1: because later on he does have a mom and all
11:47
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, So I'm assuming it's not okay,
11:49
Speaker 1: But I don't know whose house this really is.
11:52
Speaker 2: I don't really even know what to think yet. This
11:54
Speaker 2: is very fucked up because I'm literally my heart is
11:58
Speaker 2: hurting because this thirteen year old boy is so pure
12:01
Speaker 2: and innocent and just following everything, which this is just
12:05
Speaker 2: seems there's just so many red flags that I.
12:09
Speaker 1: Am but it's rat it's red flags for us as adults. Yes,
12:14
Speaker 1: for a thirteen year old kid who's just trusting. It's
12:19
Speaker 1: a little different.
12:20
Speaker 2: But then still like at some point, like at that age,
12:23
Speaker 2: like you're still taught that like strangers are bad, but
12:26
Speaker 2: this this guy is still like very young and almost
12:28
Speaker 2: kind of like only a few years older than him. Right, Yeah,
12:32
Speaker 2: oh gosh, I mean shit, it's about to go down. Like,
12:36
Speaker 2: I mean, what's in the sricen room?
12:38
Speaker 1: Well, nothing particularly in this room, Like it's it's just
12:41
Speaker 1: a room. There's a bed in the room. It's a bedroom, right,
12:43
Speaker 1: It's a dirty house. There's garbage and it stinks. That
12:46
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So there's nothing overtly dangerous in the room,
12:50
Speaker 1: per se. Okay, However, when they enter the room, Joe's
12:54
Speaker 1: demeanor instantly flipped like a light switch.
12:57
Speaker 2: Yikes.
12:59
Speaker 1: He threw Fat down on the bed inside the room,
13:02
Speaker 1: and he quickly sat next to him grabbed for one
13:05
Speaker 1: of his legs. Thad, now being thrown to a bed,
13:08
Speaker 1: was scared right well. Yeah, so he began to try
13:11
Speaker 1: and fight back. But before he even had a chance
13:13
Speaker 1: to defend himself, this older boy, Joe, who might I say,
13:16
Speaker 1: is like twice his size, managed to get a hold
13:19
Speaker 1: of his right foot, and with his foot in both
13:22
Speaker 1: of his hands, he began to torque and twist sidewise
13:25
Speaker 1: until all of a sudden, a loud snap was heard
13:29
Speaker 1: and Thad felt the bone in his ankle give away
13:33
Speaker 1: under the pressure.
13:34
Speaker 2: Holy shit, you're kidding. Nope, seriously, Yes, just like went
13:40
Speaker 2: from like just a super nice guy to an instant
13:42
Speaker 2: he's just like breaking his foot, yes, ankle or whatever? Yes,
13:46
Speaker 2: oh my gosh.
13:48
Speaker 1: Okay, So after that, Joe took a step back, placed
13:52
Speaker 1: his hands over his face and began kind of muttering
13:54
Speaker 1: to himself, and Thad was in shock, not yet quite
13:58
Speaker 1: feeling the full force of the the pain in his
14:01
Speaker 1: now broken ankle, but he clearly knew the danger that
14:05
Speaker 1: he was in now, so he knew he had.
14:07
Speaker 2: To run well, and how do you even get out?
14:10
Speaker 2: Like that's an injury, Like, how do you even escape now?
14:14
Speaker 1: Exactly? I mean, he got up and he tried his
14:16
Speaker 1: best he could to get out of the room, down
14:18
Speaker 1: the stairs, through the kitchen towards the front door, but
14:21
Speaker 1: like you said, he can't really his best pretty much
14:24
Speaker 1: now is a quick hobble, which means it's really easy
14:28
Speaker 1: for Joe to catch up to him. Awesome, which is
14:31
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. So by the time he reached the
14:34
Speaker 1: kitchen almost at the front door, Joe came up behind
14:38
Speaker 1: him and grabbed him and tackled him to the floor.
14:42
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, this boy was like easily twice his size,
14:45
Speaker 1: so he overpowered him without a problem.
14:47
Speaker 2: Well, I think broken ankle or not, he'd still be
14:50
Speaker 2: able to probably catch him, like exactly, fuck is this guy?
14:53
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get there. So he took him down and
14:58
Speaker 1: then he dragged him from the kitchen into the living
15:00
Speaker 1: room and then he threw him on the couch. Joe
15:04
Speaker 1: then took Thad's right leg and lifted it up towards
15:09
Speaker 1: Dad's head, extended it far beyond its normal range of motion,
15:14
Speaker 1: and he pressed down with his full body weight on
15:16
Speaker 1: the leg and then gave it a twist and hurt
15:20
Speaker 1: another snap.
15:22
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I am, I cannot like, we're how
15:27
Speaker 2: far in? I'm not going to be mute too with
15:28
Speaker 2: this episode. This is horrifine.
15:31
Speaker 1: It's not a fun one. It's graphic.
15:35
Speaker 2: I'm this is probably one you needed to have filmed
15:38
Speaker 2: because I am. I can't do this. I can't even listen.
15:43
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just want to take my headphones.
15:45
Speaker 1: You've been squirming in your seat a lot. Yeah, Well,
15:48
Speaker 1: to be fair, I was doing the very same thing
15:50
Speaker 1: during researching of this episode. It's not fun, not fun
15:54
Speaker 1: at all. And I can't imagine what Thad would be
15:57
Speaker 1: going through. He's thirteen years old.
16:00
Speaker 2: Well, I just can't even let fear and the agonizing pain. Yes,
16:04
Speaker 2: I need something. I need something to like fiddle with here,
16:06
Speaker 2: Like I gotta hold onto something.
16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, that coaster there you go, you to break it
16:10
Speaker 1: here and a half. Eventually it's just cork, go for it. Well,
16:14
Speaker 1: like I said that being thirteen though, and all this
16:19
Speaker 1: unfathomable pain. Let's just say it like that, because apparently
16:21
Speaker 1: breaking like femurs and stuff is one of the most
16:24
Speaker 1: excruciating things a human can feel. Apparently, so he blacked
16:28
Speaker 1: out as a result of this, and the injury that
16:31
Speaker 1: he did just sustain in this moment was a broken
16:34
Speaker 1: femur and a broken hip on the right side of
16:37
Speaker 1: his body. And that's along with the broken ankle that
16:40
Speaker 1: he already incurred on the right side of his body.
16:42
Speaker 2: Wow, that was that's some intense injuries right there. Oh yeah,
16:48
Speaker 2: I don't even know how well that would heal. Hey
16:49
Speaker 2: your hip, well.
16:51
Speaker 1: A hip is it can be very dangerous, especially it
16:54
Speaker 1: gets like more into the pelvis because you have your
16:56
Speaker 1: artery running through there.
16:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you.
16:59
Speaker 1: Break that pelvis, that is a get to the hospital now,
17:01
Speaker 1: because internal bleeding, Like you can bleed out and you're
17:04
Speaker 1: gonna die very quickly. All it takes is for a
17:06
Speaker 1: bone shard to puncture that artery and you're done.
17:09
Speaker 2: Dang.
17:11
Speaker 1: So when he did eventually wake up after blacking out,
17:14
Speaker 1: there was of course this excruciating pain radiating down the
17:18
Speaker 1: right side of his body into his leg hip as
17:20
Speaker 1: a result of the injuries, and Joe was just sitting
17:24
Speaker 1: there next to him, but he was now back to
17:29
Speaker 1: how he was when they first met. He was calm,
17:32
Speaker 1: he talked normal and being relatively kind instead of this bizarre, crazed,
17:38
Speaker 1: wanting to break bones type monster. He actually even began
17:43
Speaker 1: to explain to that you know what's going on. He
17:46
Speaker 1: said that he had a fascination with bones and the
17:51
Speaker 1: sound they made when they broke.
17:54
Speaker 2: Seriously, yes, the seventeen.
17:57
Speaker 1: Year old boy is fascinated by the sound of breaking bones.
18:03
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really disturbing.
18:06
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean it is. Let's paint this picture though
18:11
Speaker 1: here outside of the breaking bones thing too, because he's
18:14
Speaker 1: now friendly with them, and that actually began I became
18:19
Speaker 1: getting friendly with Joe in this situation too, after he
18:22
Speaker 1: woke up. It's a very odd situation to look back
18:25
Speaker 1: on because Joe is now treating him as if he's
18:28
Speaker 1: basically a friend, even though he already had kidnapped him
18:30
Speaker 1: and really attacked him and they're strangers this whole thing,
18:35
Speaker 1: so like that is also treating him the same way.
18:40
Speaker 1: He's being nice and friendly even though he's on his couch,
18:42
Speaker 1: kidnapped by him and with broken legs able leg Sorry,
18:47
Speaker 1: so is he kind.
18:47
Speaker 2: Of just playing nice?
18:48
Speaker 1: So I must saying that's exactly what that's doing. He's
18:51
Speaker 1: got ulterior motives. Yeah, he's trying to a stall Joe.
18:55
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out a way to escape.
18:58
Speaker 1: He's trying to be befriend him in hopes that well,
19:02
Speaker 1: maybe he's just gonna let me go. And then also
19:06
Speaker 1: he's see trying to delay the possibility of an eventual
19:11
Speaker 1: additional attack.
19:12
Speaker 2: Yep, more broken bones. Yes, well, could you imagine being
19:16
Speaker 2: held captive and this person is just like going on
19:19
Speaker 2: about how he likes the sound of breaking bones.
19:22
Speaker 1: Oh, and he's already broken.
19:24
Speaker 2: Your bony Yeah, like quite a few of your bones.
19:26
Speaker 1: And he's already proven to easily been able to overpower you,
19:30
Speaker 1: and you have no way of preventing it from happening
19:33
Speaker 1: again other than being nice. That is your current only
19:38
Speaker 1: fucking weapon in this situation.
19:40
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this is too much.
19:45
Speaker 1: It's too much right now. I just want to point
19:48
Speaker 1: out being nice is one thing, especially like to someone
19:51
Speaker 1: who's like hurting you, but you are in excruciating pain
19:55
Speaker 1: having to be nice.
19:57
Speaker 2: That's the one time I feel like where you can
19:59
Speaker 2: cut things kind of slip right where you like, if
20:02
Speaker 2: you are a kind person and you're in pain, like
20:04
Speaker 2: it's like fuck off because you're just in so much
20:07
Speaker 2: excruciating pain, you're not thinking.
20:09
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're overwhelmed. Yeah, so shit can go south
20:11
Speaker 1: pretty quick in that sort of situation. But thatd has
20:15
Speaker 1: to keep it together because he doesn't want to trigger
20:18
Speaker 1: anything else to happen again. So through the rest of
20:22
Speaker 1: this night, Joe did go to sleep, and he told
20:24
Speaker 1: that as well to go ahead and get some sleep too,
20:27
Speaker 1: But Thad couldn't get a wink asleep. He was frozen
20:30
Speaker 1: in a fear and be in pain, wondering what was
20:33
Speaker 1: coming next and if he was going to survive. The
20:37
Speaker 1: next morning, when Joe woke up, Thad continued the idea
20:41
Speaker 1: of being friends with his abductor, and it was no
20:45
Speaker 1: big deal sort of thing. So Thad was like, oh,
20:48
Speaker 1: you know, hey, what'd be able to call for my
20:50
Speaker 1: parents to come and pick me up? Almost like it
20:53
Speaker 1: was like, you know, just a sleepover. It just ended like, oh,
20:56
Speaker 1: it's no big deal. This is just kind of like
20:58
Speaker 1: a normal big thing, and parents picked me up and
21:00
Speaker 1: it's just a normal freaking day, right, And he was
21:03
Speaker 1: actually extremely surprised when Joe said yeah and he handed
21:08
Speaker 1: him a telephone.
21:09
Speaker 2: Really really because at this point, like that can probably
21:13
Speaker 2: not even move really no, okay.
21:16
Speaker 1: So broken hip, femur and ankle, yeah, on his right
21:20
Speaker 1: hand side.
21:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:22
Speaker 1: So, now having a telephone in his hand and the
21:25
Speaker 1: permission to call his parents from Joe, adrenaline was pumping
21:31
Speaker 1: through his system as he's trying not to like make
21:34
Speaker 1: himself look like he's panicking.
21:36
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, like this this could be my moment exactly.
21:39
Speaker 1: He's trying to keep it calm. So he took the phone,
21:41
Speaker 1: acting as casual as possible, dialed his parent's number, and
21:45
Speaker 1: held the receiver up to his ear. But when he did,
21:47
Speaker 1: the only thing you could hear was Joe's laughter on
21:51
Speaker 1: the other end.
21:52
Speaker 3: Of the room.
21:52
Speaker 2: Oh shit, so he was just fucking with him.
21:55
Speaker 1: The phone's cord was cut.
21:58
Speaker 2: Wow.
22:00
Speaker 1: Oh it was a dead phone.
22:03
Speaker 2: That is heartbreaking, isn't it.
22:07
Speaker 1: That is so fucking cold.
22:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy, Okay, I'm like, i mean, I'm feeling
22:14
Speaker 2: like we're gonna be hearing about him. But he has
22:16
Speaker 2: to have some.
22:18
Speaker 1: Fiddle with the coaster. Fiddle with it. You're gonna need it.
22:21
Speaker 2: I think he has to have some like bipolar or
22:24
Speaker 2: some sort of mental health issues going on here big time.
22:29
Speaker 1: Uh, we'll talk about that a little bit later. I didn't. Yeah,
22:34
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it.
22:35
Speaker 2: Okay, we were I'm yeah, like I said, we're gonna
22:36
Speaker 2: get there.
22:37
Speaker 1: I'm sure for sure. So he's now sitting there just
22:42
Speaker 1: again waiting for what's gonna happen next. Oh my gosh,
22:46
Speaker 1: they were sitting there, They're watching TV together, and a
22:48
Speaker 1: couple hours of waiting goes by, and then that caught
22:51
Speaker 1: a glimpse of something terrifying in Joe's eyes. When Joe
22:55
Speaker 1: looked at him, it was the same terrifying and cynical
22:59
Speaker 1: look that he saw the night before, in the moment
23:02
Speaker 1: when everything changed when Joe attacked him. Joe, in this moment,
23:07
Speaker 1: suddenly stood up, lifted that off the couch, carried him
23:10
Speaker 1: upstairs back to the bedroom where they were the night before,
23:13
Speaker 1: put him on the bed, and began the attack all
23:16
Speaker 1: over again, this time targeting his left ankle.
23:20
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Okay.
23:23
Speaker 1: He immediately grabbed Thad's foot both hands and began to
23:27
Speaker 1: twist it in an unnatural way until the pressure was
23:30
Speaker 1: too much and the bone once again snapped. Pain rushed
23:34
Speaker 1: through Thad's body, but this time enough for him to
23:38
Speaker 1: sit up and strike Joe with a punch, but his
23:42
Speaker 1: attack was useless. Joe then took a pillow and pinned
23:47
Speaker 1: him down with the pillow over his face and told
23:49
Speaker 1: him that if he tried to fight back again the
23:52
Speaker 1: next time, he would be breaking his neck or his
23:55
Speaker 1: back instead of his legs.
23:58
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
24:00
Speaker 1: So he had two options, one basically be paralyzed or
24:06
Speaker 1: dead by trying to fight back, or continue to lay
24:11
Speaker 1: back and accept the brutal torture. And at one point
24:16
Speaker 1: during this part that had looked down at his left
24:20
Speaker 1: foot as it was being twisted so extreme that the
24:23
Speaker 1: skin on his ankle was being wrapped like a rubber
24:26
Speaker 1: band and his foot was facing backwards.
24:29
Speaker 2: Oh god, you're just torturing us.
24:32
Speaker 3: Now, this is horrid, this is in Oh, I don't
24:37
Speaker 3: even Later on in court, he was asked as he
24:42
Speaker 3: took the stand, what did your foot look like?
24:45
Speaker 1: And he said, quote, it was facing backwards.
24:50
Speaker 2: Wow, holy shit. Okay, it's like hard to even want
24:54
Speaker 2: to say. This is just so, this is so unfathomable
24:59
Speaker 2: to me that this is happening.
25:00
Speaker 1: It's wild, absolutely wild. And I can't stress enough that
25:05
Speaker 1: this is a thirteen year old boy going through this.
25:08
Speaker 2: Well and the fact that that was even happening. He
25:10
Speaker 2: got like a punch in. It's kind of impressive.
25:12
Speaker 1: It is, it really is.
25:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of felt ill before this podcast, so
25:17
Speaker 2: this is great.
25:18
Speaker 1: Just making it worse.
25:19
Speaker 2: It is great for me.
25:21
Speaker 1: Well, it took a while for this bit of attack
25:24
Speaker 1: to be over, and Joe began to confess to Fad
25:27
Speaker 1: that this wasn't just the sound of breaking bones that
25:31
Speaker 1: was making him do this. He also enjoyed and had
25:34
Speaker 1: a fascination with bones that went a little bit further.
25:38
Speaker 1: He enjoyed trying to fix and reset bones. Okay, so
25:46
Speaker 1: he opened up a dresser drawer that was jammed full
25:49
Speaker 1: to the brim with brand new sets of white socks
25:52
Speaker 1: and elastic bands. Then to top it all off, he
25:55
Speaker 1: also had an old hospital leg brace and he used
25:59
Speaker 1: all the materials layering socks after socks is padding and
26:03
Speaker 1: elastic bands to hold them in place, and then use
26:06
Speaker 1: the brace to hold the legs still. And while doing this,
26:09
Speaker 1: Joe even talked about how he tried to break his
26:12
Speaker 1: own legs in the past, but he just couldn't quite
26:15
Speaker 1: get the angles right to get the job done.
26:19
Speaker 2: Huh.
26:20
Speaker 1: Okay, So this whole medical procedure, if you want to
26:25
Speaker 1: call it, that he was trying to perform, it was crude,
26:28
Speaker 1: It was improvised. It was a basic attempt of a
26:33
Speaker 1: medical splint that was just not even coming close to
26:36
Speaker 1: working one iota. He had little knowledge at all about
26:40
Speaker 1: what he was doing. All he knew that he wanted
26:44
Speaker 1: to write the bones basically, and then let them get
26:47
Speaker 1: back at a place so hopefully he could come back
26:50
Speaker 1: and break them all over again.
26:53
Speaker 2: Where the actual shit is he like getting this fascination
26:58
Speaker 2: and learning this stuff.
26:59
Speaker 1: From That's a very good question.
27:02
Speaker 2: That is unbelievable. Like, I'm very speechless here, so I
27:09
Speaker 2: apologize that I am just processing, and yeah, it's not
27:13
Speaker 2: going well in my head right now.
27:16
Speaker 1: Well, continue to try and process, because it's one of
27:20
Speaker 1: those cases that I don't think we can process to
27:24
Speaker 1: the full extent. So after and during torture several times
27:30
Speaker 1: that day and having more of his bones and his
27:32
Speaker 1: legs broke, Wow, Thad heard Joe talking to someone else
27:37
Speaker 1: in the house. Down in the kitchen. He listened as
27:40
Speaker 1: close as he could, but he could hear no other
27:42
Speaker 1: voice of no other person. So to Thad, this could
27:47
Speaker 1: only mean one thing. It's talking to himself, not talking
27:50
Speaker 1: to himself. Because he was definitely talking to another person.
27:54
Speaker 1: He thought there must be a working phone somewhere in
28:00
Speaker 1: the house.
28:01
Speaker 2: Okay, and he's.
28:04
Speaker 1: Pretty sure he was in the kitchen when he was
28:07
Speaker 1: having this conversation. So Thad knew in his condition that
28:14
Speaker 1: this was his only chance to get out of the house.
28:17
Speaker 1: Was this phone?
28:18
Speaker 2: How the fuck is he going to get there? Though?
28:20
Speaker 1: Well, in the evening, Joe told Fad that he was
28:24
Speaker 1: going to be leaving the house, but not before warning, threatening,
28:29
Speaker 1: and of course further hurting Fad to prevent any attempts
28:33
Speaker 1: of escape. This, however, didn't stop him. He knew that
28:39
Speaker 1: he needed to get down to that phone. He needed
28:41
Speaker 1: to escape, He needed to do what he could. So
28:44
Speaker 1: once he was certain that Joe was out of the
28:47
Speaker 1: house and that he was alone, he rolled his broken
28:51
Speaker 1: body out of the bed and began to slowly crawl
28:54
Speaker 1: his way through the house. Oh my gosh, he made
28:58
Speaker 1: his way to the top of the stairs, which was
29:02
Speaker 1: his biggest obstacle.
29:03
Speaker 2: On the way, which, even making it that far as
29:06
Speaker 2: a feet.
29:07
Speaker 1: Oh definitely his first attempt, mind you. He decided he
29:12
Speaker 1: was going to try and slide down the stairs like
29:14
Speaker 1: feet first, but his legs were in way too much
29:17
Speaker 1: pain that it was an impossible feet, completely impossible feet,
29:23
Speaker 1: and Thad knew that standing was of course out of
29:25
Speaker 1: the question, and slowly going down the stairs as he's
29:29
Speaker 1: looking at it now, no matter the direction, it wasn't
29:32
Speaker 1: going to happen either. So this left him with only
29:36
Speaker 1: one option. He gathered up all his strength and all
29:41
Speaker 1: the adrenaline that he could and he threw himself down
29:44
Speaker 1: the stairs. Wow. Seriously, if he couldn't slowly climb it,
29:49
Speaker 1: he was going to fall it.
29:51
Speaker 2: Holy man, this guy is incredible at thirty incredible.
29:56
Speaker 1: It's wild. And I'm going to say this now because
30:00
Speaker 1: of course, you guys know what's going to happen. He
30:02
Speaker 1: is one hundred percent our badass of the day.
30:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he the will in him to live is
30:08
Speaker 2: that's incredible.
30:09
Speaker 1: Oh, we've only scratched the surface.
30:12
Speaker 2: Okay, good to know.
30:14
Speaker 1: So in the fall, he of course blacked out from
30:18
Speaker 1: the pain, but he would wake up a while later
30:22
Speaker 1: in a broken heap at the bottom of the stairs.
30:24
Speaker 1: But he knew what he had to do. He had
30:27
Speaker 1: to make his way to the kitchen. He had to
30:28
Speaker 1: get to the phone, so he slowly crawled, making it
30:32
Speaker 1: about a foot at a time and passing out in
30:34
Speaker 1: between each interval. He would make it about a foot
30:38
Speaker 1: and pass out, wake up, make it about a foot
30:42
Speaker 1: and pass out, all from the extreme pain that he
30:44
Speaker 1: was in.
30:45
Speaker 2: And I imagine he doesn't even know how long this
30:47
Speaker 2: is taking either. He has also like freaking out of
30:50
Speaker 2: when Joe's going to.
30:51
Speaker 1: Be getting home exactly. He doesn't know if he passed
30:54
Speaker 1: out for a minute or an hour exactly. So he's
30:58
Speaker 1: getting closer and closer to the case, nearly there, right
31:02
Speaker 1: where the phone must be. When he heard the front door.
31:06
Speaker 2: Fucking kidding, seriously, I'm pissed now.
31:11
Speaker 1: Joe came in with his girlfriend. His girlfriend, his girlfriend.
31:14
Speaker 1: He couldn't see the two, but he could hear them
31:17
Speaker 1: and she laughed. After a moment, and when the door closed,
31:20
Speaker 1: Joe came walking through the kitchen into the living room
31:22
Speaker 1: where he was laying just outside the kitchen. And Joe
31:27
Speaker 1: was furious now that at this point he uh he
31:33
Speaker 1: was passing out so much that he wouldn't even be
31:35
Speaker 1: awake for any sort of punishment that will be dealt
31:37
Speaker 1: to him. So in the morning is when Joe would
31:41
Speaker 1: give him his punishment and torture.
31:43
Speaker 2: He wanted him awake.
31:45
Speaker 1: He wanted him awake. So Joe continued. He was twisting
31:50
Speaker 1: his legs, grinding the bones against once one another as
31:53
Speaker 1: they moved. He would even jump up and land on
31:56
Speaker 1: his legs, his broken legs with his knees.
32:01
Speaker 2: This guy is a literal monster.
32:03
Speaker 1: Is Fad did everything he could to get through the
32:07
Speaker 1: pain and delay the assault as best he could. At
32:09
Speaker 1: one point, he said, I think I heard someone coming
32:12
Speaker 1: in the driveway, and in that moment, Joe quickly got
32:15
Speaker 1: up and looked at the window as if he was
32:17
Speaker 1: actually almost expecting someone. Okay, now it didn't buy much time,
32:21
Speaker 1: but it was at least a moment in between the
32:23
Speaker 1: brutal torture, and every moment at this point counted bad.
32:28
Speaker 1: In that moment, assume that Joe must actually be expecting someone.
32:32
Speaker 1: He must be expecting his girlfriend to come by again.
32:35
Speaker 1: So throughout this experience, a few more times he would
32:37
Speaker 1: say that he thinks he hears someone outside or someone's
32:40
Speaker 1: in the driveway, and each time it brought him a
32:43
Speaker 1: brief break, as Joe would go look out the window.
32:47
Speaker 2: But is that not I feel like that's also gonna
32:48
Speaker 2: be making Joe mad?
32:50
Speaker 1: Potentially it could be. Now, this was all absolutely horrific,
32:56
Speaker 1: and it brought Thad to ask a question. So, during
32:59
Speaker 1: this horrific experience, while he's being beaten and in extreme pain,
33:05
Speaker 1: he asked, have you done this to anyone else before? Because,
33:09
Speaker 1: I mean, this is so extreme? Is he really going
33:12
Speaker 1: this far on a first assault?
33:14
Speaker 2: Yeah? That's actually I feel like that's an impressive question.
33:19
Speaker 2: That is that you're in that much excruciating pain and
33:23
Speaker 2: being tortured, and you're curious if anyone else has gone
33:27
Speaker 2: through this at thirteen?
33:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the age. I cannot get over the fact
33:31
Speaker 1: that this kid is thirteen. Like he is a literal
33:35
Speaker 1: fucking badass.
33:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a child. Wow, Like that's incredible.
33:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. So to answer his question, and given Thad's current state,
33:46
Speaker 1: Joe must have assumed that there was going to be
33:49
Speaker 1: no escape and that he would probably be killing him soon,
33:54
Speaker 1: So he had no problem confessing that yes, there were
33:58
Speaker 1: other people and he had actually given a couple names,
34:01
Speaker 1: and then continued his punishment.
34:03
Speaker 2: That he killed probably yes, seriously.
34:08
Speaker 1: Yes, other people that endured this and other people that
34:10
Speaker 1: he killed. And then he continued his punishment, and he
34:12
Speaker 1: continued hurting Fad to whatever extent he deemed necessary.
34:18
Speaker 2: This guy is literally a nasty motherfucker.
34:21
Speaker 1: Yes.
34:23
Speaker 2: Wow.
34:24
Speaker 1: So eventually Joe's girlfriend did show up. She did pull
34:30
Speaker 1: up in the driveway, which meant the torture was over
34:35
Speaker 1: for now briefly.
34:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
34:38
Speaker 1: So to prevent Fad from trying to escape again, Joe
34:42
Speaker 1: decided he was going to put him in the closet
34:45
Speaker 1: and shut the door and lock it. So he left
34:49
Speaker 1: the house with Fad locked in the closet. And the
34:54
Speaker 1: one thing he didn't account for because he's assuming he's
34:56
Speaker 1: going to be locked in there, he's not getting out,
34:58
Speaker 1: and he's going to be done. He's not gonna be
35:00
Speaker 1: able to do anything, not be able to get anywhere.
35:02
Speaker 1: He's helpless, right, But he didn't account for Thad's determination.
35:06
Speaker 1: That's the key here. Once that realized that he wasn't
35:11
Speaker 1: the only victim of this brutal, bone breaking torture, he
35:16
Speaker 1: knew that if he died, if he was going to
35:20
Speaker 1: continue to be able to do this, he wasn't going
35:23
Speaker 1: to be the last one. So Thad set his focus
35:27
Speaker 1: on escaping to ensure that this didn't happen to anyone else.
35:31
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that makes me want to just cry.
35:35
Speaker 1: Heye, doesn't it Like that is just like.
35:38
Speaker 2: The most amazing person in the whole world. He's an angel.
35:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, I don't want anyone else to go
35:44
Speaker 1: through this. I'm gonna make sure I escape and bring
35:46
Speaker 1: this guy to justice so he can't do it to
35:48
Speaker 1: anyone else. And he's thinking of this while he's locked up,
35:52
Speaker 1: while he's brutally beaten with massively broken legs, and he's
35:57
Speaker 1: in show in shock, and he's fucking.
35:59
Speaker 2: Thirty and still able to think clearly to prevent this
36:03
Speaker 2: from happening to.
36:04
Speaker 1: Someone else exactly right.
36:07
Speaker 2: Wow, Like I keep saying wow, but this is unbook.
36:10
Speaker 2: This story is unbelievable.
36:11
Speaker 1: It's wild, absolutely wild. So he's locked in this closet
36:16
Speaker 1: and he knows he needs to escape, but he doesn't
36:18
Speaker 1: know how. So he begins looking around in the closet
36:21
Speaker 1: for something to help. And between all the garbage, the
36:24
Speaker 1: dirty clothes, the rotting food that's.
36:26
Speaker 2: In there, just must reak in there.
36:28
Speaker 1: It's going to be gross. But he's rifling around and
36:32
Speaker 1: he finds an electric guitar, and this guitar was going
36:37
Speaker 1: to be the perfect thing to break through the thin
36:40
Speaker 1: walls of the manufactured wooden door.
36:43
Speaker 2: Wow.
36:44
Speaker 1: So he takes his guitar and begins smashing the door
36:48
Speaker 1: with it. He breaks through the door, reaches through and
36:52
Speaker 1: unlocks the door from the other side and opens it
36:56
Speaker 1: and he's now out of the closet.
37:00
Speaker 2: So has Joe not really been injuring his arms? It's
37:03
Speaker 2: more so as like legs.
37:05
Speaker 1: He's only been after his legs.
37:06
Speaker 2: His hips, like leg Yeah.
37:08
Speaker 1: I'm sure that he's like hitting them and beating them
37:10
Speaker 1: a bit, but he's he's only focused on breaking the
37:13
Speaker 1: legs and stuff right now.
37:14
Speaker 2: Okay, So he hasn't been okay, yeah, Oh, which I'm like,
37:19
Speaker 2: I was just gonna be like, well, I guess it's
37:20
Speaker 2: slight blessing, but this is all nothing in.
37:23
Speaker 1: Here is well there's silver linings, right, yeah, there's there's
37:27
Speaker 1: always a silver lining somewhere, and there is going to
37:30
Speaker 1: be some silver linings here shortly.
37:32
Speaker 2: Okay.
37:34
Speaker 1: So once he smashed through the door and it was open,
37:37
Speaker 1: he proceeded with the scate same escape plan as yesterday,
37:41
Speaker 1: only this time he knew that this was going to
37:43
Speaker 1: be his last attempt. If he was discovered this time,
37:47
Speaker 1: Joe was going to kill him.
37:49
Speaker 2: Huh.
37:49
Speaker 1: And that was without a doubt in his mind.
37:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
37:53
Speaker 1: So he pulled his broken body along the floor again
37:56
Speaker 1: to the top of the stairs, and this time he
37:59
Speaker 1: didn't even hesitate. He just immediately threw his body down
38:03
Speaker 1: the stairs to the bottom.
38:05
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
38:06
Speaker 1: And just like last time, he blacked out. And then
38:10
Speaker 1: he would crawl a foot or two and blackout again,
38:12
Speaker 1: crawl a foot or two and blackout again. And just
38:16
Speaker 1: like you said, he has no idea the time this
38:18
Speaker 1: is taking. In any moment that door can open again.
38:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he knows you just got to keep going
38:24
Speaker 2: like this this hole man, I'm like almost like pumped
38:28
Speaker 2: for him in the sense that like just having that
38:31
Speaker 2: much like will and desire and determination like this boy's
38:34
Speaker 2: gonna do if. I mean, you said it's a survivor's story, but.
38:37
Speaker 1: Good things, Well, his first good thing is he made it.
38:42
Speaker 2: He made it.
38:43
Speaker 1: He made it to the kitchen. Okay, So as he
38:46
Speaker 1: got into the kitchen, there on the wall he looked
38:49
Speaker 1: up was a phone fixed to the wall up high. Oh,
38:54
Speaker 1: of course, but I did say there's some silver lining things.
38:58
Speaker 1: Lucky enough for him, this phone had a long coiled
39:03
Speaker 1: cord that was hanging down perfect, so he managed to
39:06
Speaker 1: make his way to the phone, reach up, grab the cord,
39:09
Speaker 1: and yank it off until it fell down. And then
39:12
Speaker 1: that's when he realized he had a second lucky silver
39:16
Speaker 1: lining moment. All the numbers to dial were on the
39:20
Speaker 1: receiver that were now in his hands, that have mounted
39:22
Speaker 1: high up on the wall with the phone.
39:24
Speaker 2: Because I was like, where are the numbers? I was waiting,
39:26
Speaker 2: where are the numbers? Please don't be on the wall.
39:28
Speaker 1: They were right in his hand, amazing, So he quickly
39:32
Speaker 1: took the phone, dialed nine to one one was able
39:35
Speaker 1: to give a very brief description of where he was
39:38
Speaker 1: located and the house and everything right, and it only
39:42
Speaker 1: took a few minutes before police were later storming the house. Yes, however,
39:47
Speaker 1: I want to make a note here. The police initially
39:50
Speaker 1: thought this was a prank call. No way, they didn't
39:55
Speaker 1: hesitate to show up.
39:56
Speaker 2: Okay they did, you're kidding.
39:58
Speaker 1: But they initially thought this was a prank call. And
40:00
Speaker 1: there is audio recording of this nine one one call
40:03
Speaker 1: where the police are like, yeah, we're on our way
40:05
Speaker 1: to this house. This better not be a fucking prank call.
40:08
Speaker 1: Because that was so calm and collected on the phone.
40:11
Speaker 1: They thought, there's no way this kid's like kidnapped.
40:13
Speaker 2: At a house and in like dying basically from the pain. Yes, seriously,
40:19
Speaker 2: he has calm on there.
40:21
Speaker 1: He sounded like a normal kid, just like I'm talking
40:22
Speaker 1: to you right now, just a kid's voice.
40:25
Speaker 2: If this guy, he's just like a miracle, he's a miracle.
40:28
Speaker 1: While he's on the phone, you can hear police storming
40:30
Speaker 1: in the house and like that, are you there? And
40:32
Speaker 1: he's like yeah, I'm over here, Like is anyone else
40:34
Speaker 1: in the house. No, I'm the only one. He's just
40:36
Speaker 1: talking to him normal. It's in fucking sane.
40:41
Speaker 2: How on earth? It just has to be a shock thing.
40:45
Speaker 2: He has so much adrenaline going through his body.
40:47
Speaker 1: I guess, right, maybe, and I mean it must be.
40:50
Speaker 1: I can't think it's still any other way.
40:52
Speaker 2: You still think you're breathing and stuff would be labored
40:54
Speaker 2: because you're just like your body is going through hell
40:57
Speaker 2: on Earth.
40:57
Speaker 1: Yeap, So like you said, hell on Earth. He is
41:02
Speaker 1: clearly in absolute rough shape. When they arrived and they
41:04
Speaker 1: did rush him to the hospital. Now, his legs were swollen,
41:08
Speaker 1: broken in multiple places, bruised with significant discoloring all throughout,
41:12
Speaker 1: and on the way to the hospital, the ambulance attendants
41:16
Speaker 1: told him they estimated that without any medical attention, he
41:19
Speaker 1: would have died in about two hours due to internal
41:22
Speaker 1: bleeding in his legs. If he didn't make it to
41:25
Speaker 1: that phone, he had only two more hours to live.
41:27
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Really, so even like if Joe didn't
41:32
Speaker 2: finish him.
41:33
Speaker 1: Or not, basically it was either he died in that
41:36
Speaker 1: closet or he made it to the phone.
41:39
Speaker 2: Huh wow, that is that's just incredible that this story
41:44
Speaker 2: is unbelievable.
41:45
Speaker 1: It's wild. Yeah, so clearly this is going to be
41:48
Speaker 1: a long road for recovery though.
41:50
Speaker 2: Fourth oh yeah, I can't even imagine.
41:52
Speaker 1: But even still, he only had one thing on his mind.
41:55
Speaker 1: He wanted Joe to be stopped and to come to justice.
41:58
Speaker 1: So only hours later that same night, while in the hospital,
42:02
Speaker 1: Dad was trying to remember the names of the victims
42:05
Speaker 1: that Joe had previously mentioned to him. Now he could
42:07
Speaker 1: only ever remember one name.
42:10
Speaker 2: Oh dang, that's still that's good.
42:12
Speaker 1: Yes, he could only remember Chris, Chris s He couldn't
42:17
Speaker 1: remember the last name. So that same night, while they're
42:20
Speaker 1: trying to figure out this name, his dad is sitting
42:22
Speaker 1: there beside him and at the hospital bed, flipping through
42:25
Speaker 1: the phone book, reading s names to him to try
42:28
Speaker 1: and jog his memory, trigger it and see if they
42:30
Speaker 1: could figure out names. Because this is another local individual,
42:34
Speaker 1: clearly a victim of this kid. Local phone book, the
42:37
Speaker 1: name has to be in here. So he's reading through
42:39
Speaker 1: the s names and he gets to Steiner and that
42:44
Speaker 1: was it, Chris Steiner. That was the name, he said,
42:48
Speaker 1: that's the kid. That's the name. He said. That one
42:51
Speaker 1: Chris Steiner. A year before, on July fourth, nineteen ninety four,
42:56
Speaker 1: went missing, went missing. He was fourteen.
43:00
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
43:02
Speaker 1: So Chris had a new job at McDonald's and needed
43:04
Speaker 1: to be up early for a shift. So he went
43:07
Speaker 1: to bed and his parents went to wake him up.
43:09
Speaker 1: The next morning at about six fifteen am.
43:11
Speaker 2: He wasn't work.
43:13
Speaker 1: He was gone. Now, initially it took them twenty four
43:16
Speaker 1: hours to report his disappearance because they thought fourth of July,
43:21
Speaker 1: fourteen year old kid might have snuck out all this
43:24
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So it was the next day when
43:25
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, something's really wrong, so they reported a missing.
43:29
Speaker 1: An investigation has ensued and they did discover after actually investigating,
43:34
Speaker 1: that there was a cut screen on the window of
43:37
Speaker 1: his bedroom. Really and after talking to the parents, there
43:40
Speaker 1: was one door that was left unlocked that is always.
43:45
Speaker 2: Locked, so he like snuck through the cut screen and
43:49
Speaker 2: then went out the door.
43:50
Speaker 1: Correct. They also did find muddy footprints in some areas
43:54
Speaker 1: of the house and footprints in the yard that were
43:56
Speaker 1: too big to be Chris's.
43:59
Speaker 2: So this guy as a literal seventeen year old or
44:02
Speaker 2: sixteen year old or whatever like serial killer.
44:04
Speaker 1: Hey, basically.
44:08
Speaker 2: That's mind blowing. Oh my goodness. And to think that
44:13
Speaker 2: if that did not get away, how many more people
44:16
Speaker 2: that he would have done this to?
44:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it wouldn't have stopped.
44:19
Speaker 2: It would have gotten worse.
44:20
Speaker 1: It would have one So it would be five days
44:24
Speaker 1: later after he disappeared that Chris's body would be found.
44:29
Speaker 1: His body was caught snagged on a tree in a
44:31
Speaker 1: river bank along the Wisconsin River. His body was found
44:35
Speaker 1: bloated and badly decomposed. An autopsy was done and his
44:40
Speaker 1: cause of death was said to be drowning, but there
44:42
Speaker 1: was no actual determined determination on how he ended up
44:46
Speaker 1: in the river or anything, so it was considered unknown undetermined.
44:52
Speaker 1: But cause of death was drowned.
44:55
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I imagine if he had some broken bones
44:59
Speaker 2: that he wouldn't have been swim right, if Joe did
45:02
Speaker 2: throw him in the water when he was like still alive.
45:05
Speaker 1: We're going to get to that. But as for as
45:07
Speaker 1: far as the autopsy went, no broken bones were found. Okay, okay,
45:11
Speaker 1: but we're going to get to that. So unfortunately, there
45:15
Speaker 1: was no other evidence that could really be found, and
45:18
Speaker 1: his case was left cold and he was buried and
45:21
Speaker 1: laid to rest. Now it was back to bad story.
45:26
Speaker 1: It was quickly determined that an individual who was a
45:29
Speaker 1: suspect in Chris's disappearance was a local teenage bully by
45:34
Speaker 1: the name of Joe Clark. He was seventeen, and he
45:37
Speaker 1: was found and quickly arrested. Police went and got permission
45:42
Speaker 1: to re examine Chris's body, so they re exhumed his remains,
45:47
Speaker 1: and their astonishment, the autopsy completely missed several broken bones
45:52
Speaker 1: in his legs. How it's assumed that due to the
45:56
Speaker 1: bloat in his body, breaks weren't visible bull or anything. Okay,
46:01
Speaker 1: so it gave no reason for X rays in the area,
46:04
Speaker 1: especially considering drowning. They're looking at like asphyxiation, lungs and stuff, right, So.
46:10
Speaker 2: That okay, that's fair, that makes sense.
46:13
Speaker 1: So once they compared Chris's X rays to Thad's X rays,
46:18
Speaker 1: the breaks were almost in identical fashions, really, same way
46:24
Speaker 1: of force, same spot, the brakes were in you name it,
46:28
Speaker 1: which confirmed Joe and Chris's assailant.
46:32
Speaker 2: Just like this teenager hases like m O already like that.
46:36
Speaker 2: This is just so disturbing. I'm so disturbed by this case.
46:41
Speaker 1: Get ready for this one.
46:42
Speaker 2: It gets freaking worse.
46:43
Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't necessarily get worse, but there's a final
46:46
Speaker 1: smoking gun, if you will. For Joe. They would end up,
46:51
Speaker 1: of course, getting search warrants and everything, and they would
46:54
Speaker 1: search his room and they found a notebook, and within
46:58
Speaker 1: this notebook there were three handwritten lists. These three lists
47:04
Speaker 1: included the names of local boys and all the headings
47:08
Speaker 1: on the lists were A get to know b can
47:13
Speaker 1: wait and see leg thing?
47:18
Speaker 2: Oh seriously, yes, leg thing, leg thing That's fucked, isn't it. Yeah,
47:27
Speaker 2: So did they find out the other freaking names of
47:29
Speaker 2: the other ones.
47:30
Speaker 1: Then unfortunately anyone that was confessed by Joe. No, they're
47:37
Speaker 1: not too sure. And there is no other evidence on
47:40
Speaker 1: any other actual victims. Okay, nothing that anyone is aware of.
47:45
Speaker 2: Huh.
47:46
Speaker 1: So it would take nearly a year before the trial occurred,
47:52
Speaker 1: and Thad stood trial without fear of Joe. He said
47:56
Speaker 1: he could not wait to get up there, and he
47:58
Speaker 1: did not He was not afraid of him.
48:00
Speaker 2: He said, Oh my gosh, he's incredible.
48:03
Speaker 1: Joe pleaded insanity at the trial and claimed that he
48:07
Speaker 1: had absolutely no recollection of the events whatsoever. He said
48:11
Speaker 1: he did remember just having every intent to hang out
48:14
Speaker 1: with that and that's it, but he just blacks out
48:16
Speaker 1: and doesn't remember anything else. But he did also say
48:20
Speaker 1: that it was Thad who broke his bones himself.
48:23
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, I totally like I I am one
48:28
Speaker 2: hundred percent. I believe like mental health is a thing,
48:30
Speaker 2: like people can have mental health issues, yes, but I
48:33
Speaker 2: do not believe him. I think that kid is full
48:35
Speaker 2: of shit.
48:36
Speaker 1: Well, the notebook with the three lists would throw that
48:38
Speaker 1: whole defense tactic out the window, because it showed that
48:41
Speaker 1: he knew what he was doing and premeditation, right. Yeah,
48:45
Speaker 1: so in regarding to Thad and the kidnapping and attempted murder,
48:52
Speaker 1: Joe would receive one hundred years.
48:54
Speaker 2: In jail, and that's where he is today. But that's
48:58
Speaker 2: not the end, of course, not, of course not, because
49:03
Speaker 2: I just have to say one more thing here. He
49:05
Speaker 2: literally blacks out when the ship's going down, but that
49:09
Speaker 2: he knows that Thad broke his own bones. I know
49:11
Speaker 2: that just isn't none of that makes any sense. I
49:14
Speaker 2: know I'm pissed right now. Yeah, what the heck? He
49:18
Speaker 2: better still be in jail, Ben, Like, come, are you
49:22
Speaker 2: threatening me? Because I'm not gonna be happy here and
49:25
Speaker 2: it's like bedtime and I'm gonna have to try to
49:27
Speaker 2: get a nice sleep because I'm wanted the gym in
49:28
Speaker 2: the morning, and like, I better not be getting even
49:31
Speaker 2: more pissed here.
49:33
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I haven't even got to like say anything yet,
49:37
Speaker 1: and you're just like literally threatening me.
49:40
Speaker 2: Yeah. Everyone listening is like, I Ope, it's okay.
49:43
Speaker 1: Oh shit, if I wake up with a broken leg
49:46
Speaker 1: in the morning, you know what happened. Wow, Well, I
49:51
Speaker 1: was referring more to There was also a trial for
49:54
Speaker 1: Chris Steiner, who was the one who was found drowned
49:59
Speaker 1: and everything. I was like, yeah, you were drawing it
50:01
Speaker 1: there for a minute.
50:02
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah.
50:03
Speaker 1: So of course there was the trial for Thad and
50:06
Speaker 1: Joe received one hundred years sentence for that. Okay, but
50:10
Speaker 1: now we're on the trial for Chris Steiner, so I
50:14
Speaker 1: cannot clarify this part of it. I could not get
50:18
Speaker 1: a name, so I couldn't research it. Any article I looked,
50:22
Speaker 1: I could not find it. So if someone else has
50:24
Speaker 1: any information on it, please reach out. I'd love to
50:26
Speaker 1: actually be able to find some more information. They had
50:30
Speaker 1: asked Thad to stand trial for this Chris Steiner case
50:35
Speaker 1: as well. Okay, days before and again just clarifying, I
50:40
Speaker 1: can't confirm any of this if it is true, so
50:42
Speaker 1: just clarifying that this is hearsay at this point. Days
50:46
Speaker 1: before this trial, one of Joe's apparent friends showed up
50:51
Speaker 1: to Thad's place with a hunting rifle and shot him
50:54
Speaker 1: in the back twice.
50:56
Speaker 2: Shot Sad in the back, yes, actual friends.
51:01
Speaker 1: Apparently, and so he still survived this shooting, apparently and
51:06
Speaker 1: was still able to go on trial. I could not
51:11
Speaker 1: find the name of the person who apparently shot Thad,
51:15
Speaker 1: so I could not find any information on if this
51:17
Speaker 1: is true, and I couldn't find any articles on it whatsoever.
51:20
Speaker 1: But I did watch one YouTube video where they talked
51:22
Speaker 1: about it. So I'm curious if that's true or not.
51:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that seems wild how it does go through anything.
51:29
Speaker 1: Out I know, so that portion is hearsay. Okay. However,
51:33
Speaker 1: there was for sure a trial held for Chris Steiner,
51:37
Speaker 1: and Joe pleaded innocent to the murder charges. He unfortunately
51:43
Speaker 1: for him, did not have an alibi, and there was
51:46
Speaker 1: an absolutely overwhelming amount of evidence, of course, found through
51:50
Speaker 1: Thad's trial, and the jury would find him guilty of
51:54
Speaker 1: Chris Steiner's murder good and this case would finally be
51:58
Speaker 1: closed and there was finally closure for his family, and
52:02
Speaker 1: Joe would be given a life sentence. So he is
52:08
Speaker 1: now one hundred years plus life in prison.
52:12
Speaker 2: So he's in jail right now.
52:13
Speaker 1: You bet ya?
52:14
Speaker 2: Okay. I was very hesitant to ask that because if
52:19
Speaker 2: he was not, I would have age.
52:21
Speaker 1: Okay, I can tell now Joe is going to be
52:24
Speaker 1: behind bars for the rest of his life. Thatad walks
52:28
Speaker 1: around alive today, walks around just fine, though he will
52:34
Speaker 1: forever be reminded of the horrors he went through with
52:37
Speaker 1: each step he does take, because he is left with
52:39
Speaker 1: a bit of a limp that follows him everywhere. But
52:42
Speaker 1: I do want to say that limp is definitely not
52:45
Speaker 1: a sign of weakness. That limp is a sign of
52:47
Speaker 1: strength and a testament to who he is and his
52:49
Speaker 1: resilience one hundred and ten percent.
52:52
Speaker 2: Well he Yeah, it's unbelievable what he went through and
52:56
Speaker 2: that he was still I don't know, his will to
53:00
Speaker 2: live is unbelievable.
53:02
Speaker 1: It is incredible.
53:03
Speaker 2: There are so many people that I think, like in
53:05
Speaker 2: that situation, like you wouldn't and rightfully so too, Like
53:10
Speaker 2: you would just I think, give up and be like, oh.
53:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm just done in the face of something
53:16
Speaker 1: like that. It's so easy to give up because that's
53:19
Speaker 1: that's what are you left with. You have nothing, it's
53:22
Speaker 1: taken away.
53:23
Speaker 2: And the pain and stuff like yeah, so I think
53:27
Speaker 2: and you would probably just think that you're done, like
53:29
Speaker 2: your how on earth would I get out of that?
53:31
Speaker 1: Yees? And I do think that if that didn't have
53:37
Speaker 1: that thing to look for, that he was trying to
53:39
Speaker 1: save someone else because he had concrete knowledge that this
53:43
Speaker 1: is going to happen. To someone else because it happened
53:45
Speaker 1: to more than just me. If he didn't have that,
53:48
Speaker 1: I don't know if he would have survived, Yeah, because
53:52
Speaker 1: I think that's what got him to push through.
53:55
Speaker 2: He was thinking about something much bigger.
53:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was thinking about I need to stop this
54:00
Speaker 1: guy from hurting someone else. Yeah, and he wasn't thinking
54:03
Speaker 1: about his own survival. And I think that's what made
54:06
Speaker 1: him survive.
54:07
Speaker 2: And what makes him like a complete incredible person.
54:10
Speaker 1: Oh, pretty much everything about that story makes him a
54:13
Speaker 1: complete incredible person. But yeah, that definitely the top of
54:17
Speaker 1: the list. Wow. Yeah, And I mean I've broken very
54:22
Speaker 1: little bones in my life. I've only ever broken like
54:24
Speaker 1: I think, Well, they say you break like toes and
54:26
Speaker 1: stuff lots and you don't even know it. And I'm
54:28
Speaker 1: pretty sure I've broken a toe or two once or twice,
54:31
Speaker 1: and then it broke my hand once. All it broke
54:33
Speaker 1: my one hand twice in the same spot. But that's it,
54:37
Speaker 1: so pretty minor stuff for me. I can't imagine have
54:39
Speaker 1: someone literally torquing your leg to the point of it
54:43
Speaker 1: just snapped.
54:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sound I think that you would hear, right.
54:49
Speaker 1: Oh, oh, the sound would probably well not like, of course,
54:53
Speaker 1: the pain. But I think the sound is what's going
54:55
Speaker 1: to live with you because I know the remember my
54:59
Speaker 1: stag party when we two weeks before you got married
55:02
Speaker 1: and sent you that picture.
55:03
Speaker 2: People probably don't know this, well.
55:05
Speaker 1: Funny story. Two weeks before you got married. Out of
55:08
Speaker 1: my stag party, I was fed a lot of drinks
55:10
Speaker 1: and I ended up tripping around the bonfire and I
55:13
Speaker 1: hit my head on a stump that was like a
55:15
Speaker 1: seat by the bonfire and I hit my like just
55:18
Speaker 1: side of my face, right beside my eye. I can
55:21
Speaker 1: still hear the sound to this day of my head
55:24
Speaker 1: hitting that one.
55:25
Speaker 2: Well, you still have a scar, don't you?
55:26
Speaker 1: A little bit you have? You gotta look hard for it.
55:28
Speaker 1: It is there.
55:29
Speaker 2: It's actually quite visible right now if you.
55:31
Speaker 1: Look forward, it's there. Yeah, yeah, but you don't notice
55:33
Speaker 1: it otherwise.
55:34
Speaker 2: So as a wedding photographer, a like, don't have your
55:37
Speaker 2: stag that close to your wedding and make sure your
55:40
Speaker 2: wedding photographer will like edit that out if something bad happens,
55:45
Speaker 2: because ours did not know.
55:46
Speaker 1: I had a little bit of a black eye and
55:48
Speaker 1: a bit of a scab on the side of my face.
55:51
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, people would just expect that from you.
55:54
Speaker 1: Ben, thank you. I think, Wow, I'm just kidding, but yeah,
55:59
Speaker 1: it's it's that sound. Pain fades over time, but there's
56:03
Speaker 1: going to be certain things that cling to you, and
56:06
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that sound is going to be
56:08
Speaker 1: something that would probably cling with them. Oh yeah, among
56:11
Speaker 1: other things of course, Yeah.
56:14
Speaker 2: I mean the trauma that he must have, so I
56:16
Speaker 2: mean hopefully, but just from the story of him and
56:20
Speaker 2: like how incredibly he is, I feel like if anyone
56:23
Speaker 2: can kind of go on to maybe live somewhat of
56:26
Speaker 2: like a normal or happy life, it's him.
56:29
Speaker 1: Which I mean, he does have a family now, he is,
56:32
Speaker 1: he does have kids and everything like that, so that's awesome.
56:35
Speaker 1: So he's definitely living a good life now there.
56:38
Speaker 2: His kids have like one badass of a dad that's no.
56:41
Speaker 1: Shit like Batman ain't got shit on Fad No kidding, Yeah,
56:45
Speaker 1: Fad the badass dad. Hm hm.
56:48
Speaker 2: I can't believe that's good. Actually, I can't believe I
56:51
Speaker 2: haven't heard this story. I mean, this would be probably
56:53
Speaker 2: one of those stories though that I would I would
56:56
Speaker 2: probably not dig deep because like it's very disturbing.
56:59
Speaker 1: Well, this is one that a friend of mine has
57:02
Speaker 1: been requesting for a while Dana, So shout out to Dana.
57:05
Speaker 1: She was talking to this just the other day. Actually
57:09
Speaker 1: it was a few weeks ago. She said, yeah, you
57:11
Speaker 1: got to do this, one got to do it. I'm like, okay,
57:13
Speaker 1: I'll do it here, coming quick.
57:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I mean that would have been pretty
57:19
Speaker 2: brutal to research.
57:20
Speaker 1: So well done, thank you. And now I want to
57:22
Speaker 1: go listen to it on Morbid because apparently they did
57:24
Speaker 1: it like three days ago too. Oh gosh, I know,
57:27
Speaker 1: So I want to go hear their their take on
57:29
Speaker 1: it because I didn't want to listen to it as
57:31
Speaker 1: I'm like in the middle of researching this. I want
57:33
Speaker 1: to get like affected by how they did it. But
57:35
Speaker 1: I'm curious their take too and what their opinion is.
57:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean everyone has their different takes on
57:40
Speaker 2: it too, and like their personalities and what they choose
57:43
Speaker 2: to because like you could probably many of our podcasts
57:47
Speaker 2: could be numerous episodes, right oh yeah, only select certain
57:50
Speaker 2: bits and like fit them in the show and stuff.
57:52
Speaker 1: So well, I mean, like honestly, this case could probably
57:56
Speaker 1: be turned into like a ten part Netflix documentary series even, yeah,
58:00
Speaker 1: like easily because you can we can talk to people
58:03
Speaker 1: involved and we can get statements, and there are documentaries
58:06
Speaker 1: on this one out there where you can pull statements,
58:09
Speaker 1: you can get the nine on one audio call, and
58:11
Speaker 1: you can you can do massive deep dives. So so yeah,
58:14
Speaker 1: it's curious to really see what other people know. And
58:18
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm really curious to see if anyone
58:20
Speaker 1: knows if thatad was shot, if that is a true thing.
58:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of hoping that really didn't happen, because
58:25
Speaker 2: that boy went through it off.
58:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed like it was a bit of a
58:29
Speaker 1: far fetched portion of the story. But it also I
58:33
Speaker 1: was like, well, why is someone going to just make
58:35
Speaker 1: this up like that? There has got to be something
58:38
Speaker 1: to it. So I'm curious if anyone can find anything
58:40
Speaker 1: on that.
58:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
58:41
Speaker 1: I certainly wasn't able to.
58:43
Speaker 2: I mean, my main reaction to that was Joa's friends,
58:47
Speaker 2: because seriously, who the fuck would be his friend?
58:49
Speaker 1: He's he apparently had a girlfriend.
58:53
Speaker 2: Yeah that is mind blowing. But I also feel like
58:55
Speaker 2: he had like dual personalities in a sense.
58:58
Speaker 1: Well, there there was something. I didn't do a whole
59:02
Speaker 1: lot of research on it because I already had a
59:04
Speaker 1: lot of information and I think this podcast has already
59:06
Speaker 1: had about an hour right now. But there was something
59:09
Speaker 1: about potential lead poisoning leading to a lot of child
59:14
Speaker 1: aggression in Wisconsin in these years, because apparently there was
59:20
Speaker 1: like a lead type gold rush in the eighteen hundreds
59:23
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of lead in the area as
59:25
Speaker 1: a result of it, and it has led to a
59:27
Speaker 1: potential apparently it affects kids and violence or something, and
59:33
Speaker 1: I am actually kind of interested to do a little
59:36
Speaker 1: bit of post research on that and see if it
59:38
Speaker 1: is a factor. And then there was also claims in
59:42
Speaker 1: court that Joe's mother drugged him as a kid and
59:47
Speaker 1: she was taking drugs during his pregnancy, and there's some
59:50
Speaker 1: other different things at play there potentially, but it seemed
59:54
Speaker 1: like a lot of them were just defense claims well.
59:56
Speaker 2: And honestly though, to get to that point that he
59:59
Speaker 2: had to probably have some sort of not the best
1:00:01
Speaker 2: of pasts really, because I feel like to literally get
1:00:05
Speaker 2: these that young, like you're still pretty young, yeah, and
1:00:08
Speaker 2: to be that much of a fucking monster, that like
1:00:11
Speaker 2: something had to happen that wasn't all good to you.
1:00:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
1:00:15
Speaker 2: I mean, just like we shouldn't be shown like I
1:00:18
Speaker 2: don't want to show them any sympathy, but like something
1:00:21
Speaker 2: had to have happened.
1:00:22
Speaker 1: I feel like I think so, and there there isn't
1:00:24
Speaker 1: a whole lot of information. Most of the things out
1:00:27
Speaker 1: there regarding what it could be is hearsay is hey,
1:00:31
Speaker 1: maybe this is it, and someone just kind of like
1:00:33
Speaker 1: talking about it. There's no real real research or real
1:00:36
Speaker 1: information regarding what it could potentially be.
1:00:39
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, yeah, there was a recent Grey's Anatomy
1:00:43
Speaker 2: episode where somebody had a bullet stuck in them and
1:00:47
Speaker 2: they were getting lead poisoning and it completely changed them.
1:00:50
Speaker 2: So that could be a thing.
1:00:51
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's how that works.
1:00:54
Speaker 2: I don't know. Lots of times Grey's Anatomy actually takes
1:00:57
Speaker 2: life situations, though, but the bullet was in this person,
1:01:00
Speaker 2: like I don't chest cavity for like ten years.
1:01:02
Speaker 1: Or oh that would mean and then it's.
1:01:04
Speaker 2: After like it started leaking or whatever. I don't even know.
1:01:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, over course of years, you haven't feel stuck
1:01:11
Speaker 1: in them. I was thinking like, oh, I just got
1:01:12
Speaker 1: shot ten minutes ago, and now I have like poisoning.
1:01:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like described it badly.
1:01:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I said, I don't think that's how
1:01:18
Speaker 1: that works. It's not like the bullet's melting in them
1:01:21
Speaker 1: or something. But no, over years, Yeah, the lead might
1:01:24
Speaker 1: slowly seep in.
1:01:24
Speaker 2: The never ending show. Hey, Gray's Anatomy, But I've watched
1:01:27
Speaker 2: every episode.
1:01:28
Speaker 1: Of what season are they on now?
1:01:30
Speaker 2: I don't even know nineteen or something they're going into
1:01:33
Speaker 2: She's la hueez. I don't know. It's crazy, but I'll
1:01:37
Speaker 2: keep I'm gonna keep watching.
1:01:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, keep watching it. Do your thing mm hm, and
1:01:41
Speaker 1: you guys can keep listening. Maybe that'd be cool. That'd
1:01:44
Speaker 1: be awesome. If you want to go give us a
1:01:46
Speaker 1: cool review, that'd be awesome. You can go give us
1:01:48
Speaker 1: a five star or give us a one star if
1:01:50
Speaker 1: you want to go ahead and be honest. We prefer
1:01:51
Speaker 1: five five stars all the way. You can give us
1:01:54
Speaker 1: a little like blurb and what you think. You can
1:01:56
Speaker 1: go ahead and check out our Instagram or Facebook or
1:01:58
Speaker 1: YouTube or Patreon, and all the stuff is listed down below.
1:02:02
Speaker 1: And we just appreciate you being here too. That is fantastic.
1:02:04
Speaker 1: You don't have to do anything else other than that,
1:02:06
Speaker 1: even so, thank you so much for just that.
1:02:08
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to us ramble on about fucking monsters
1:02:11
Speaker 2: for an hour.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you a lot. We definitely do,
1:02:16
Speaker 1: but we don't appreciate the fucking monsters in this world.
1:02:19
Speaker 2: No, we don't know.
1:02:20
Speaker 1: So anyways, we'll talk to you next time. Thanks for listening,
1:02:23
Speaker 1: and until then, stay wicked.