Latest / 52 Cues - A Production Music and Sync Podcast / We Need to Talk About Waves Plugins

Transcript

We Need to Talk About Waves Plugins · 52 Cues - A Production Music and Sync Podcast

• 0:30
  Dave Kropf: You know, I don't begrudge any business looking for smart ways to get their products into the hands of interested people, you know, like you, but there are times when things kind of cross a line into, shall we say, questionable territory. So fair warning, today's podcast is probably gonna feel a little ranty because we need to talk about Waves, their marketing strategies and what you should know before you start dropping real money on plugin deals, which just seemed too good to be true.
• 1:01
  Dave Kropf: Plus, we're going to take a listen to an indie alt rock cue written by a member of the 52 Cues community on this week's episode of the 52 Cues podcast.
• 1:24
  Dave Kropf: What is happening everybody, this is Dave Kropf.
• 1:24
  Dave Kropf: And welcome back to another episode of the 52 Cues podcast, a weekly podcast dedicated to all things production in library music, where we talk about industry topics and take deep dives into the different aspects of being a working production music composer. Plus, we feature a cue written by you a member of the 52 Cues community and this week, we're going to be taking a listen to to the finish line, which is an indie alt rock cue written by Darin Peckham, so you definitely want to stick around for that. And if this is your first time here, welcome. I'm so glad you found me however you found me. I mean, I know you have a lot of options out there in YouTube and podcast.
• 2:01
  Dave Kropf: So I thank you for spending part of your day here with me. I also want to give a special word of thanks to the family friends and patrons of 52 Cues who helped keep the podcast the channel and everything we do here to humming along perfectly.
• 2:18
  Dave Kropf: We are 100% community supported so you won't hear any ads for mattresses or VPNs or meal plans. But if you want to learn more about how you can help support 52 Cues and unlock perks like live streams, workshops, Zoom feedback sessions and a ton more then be sure to click on the links in the description or, you know, stick around. Because we're gonna be talking much more about that a little a little later in today's episode. So today's topic is all about Waves. Waves, plugins, waves.com, you can get them and if you've you've probably seen an ad for Waves prob- probably before this video, I'm sure that you can't throw a rock near any production site and hear about Waves plugins, because the deals themselves are really good. Now, if you're not familiar, Waves is a company that makes plugins for all DAW's that for mixing for for mastering lots of really cool little tools, whether it's compressors or EQs, or automated faders or reverb units or, or de-essers, just the whole gamut. I mean, you could essentially replace every plugin in your DAW with Waves in an even Yeah, they even have some sound plugins and yeah, so I'm... I'll start out by saying I'm actually kind of a big fan of Waves. I like Waves plugins. I've heard about Waves for a long time. They are kind of the Pro Tools of plugins right they've been around for forever, and it will be hard pressed to find any professional and not see some kind of Waves plugins on their computer. Least that's that's my take on it.
• 4:09
  Dave Kropf: That's my experience. I knew that when I was looking to upgrade from my stock EQs my stock compressors, de-essers, transient shapers...all of those things when I was looking to upgrade from the stock I went straight to Waves because a they're really good plugins. They're great plugins. And their deals are amazing. They're always running deal in fact they're running deals right now. Right now on their website is is a deal 50% off everything just use the code get 50% off and they're always always giving away plugins it seems like giving by by like one get two free.
• 4:55
  Dave Kropf: They're like the plugin version of the I don't know where we're where you live if you have this but here in Florida, around Fourth of July and new year there are these pop up tents which show up like in front of gas stations or sometimes like abandoned buildings. There will be or in a parking lot attend selling fireworks around New Year's and again around Fourth of July and And it always is like buy one firecracker, get 10 for free. And that's, that's what that's what Waves reminds me of. They're always running these killer deals. And they're always like $29, 24.99, or whatever. 22 plugins for every mix here, I'm reading a write off of their, their, their, their site right here$35, regularly $149. Here's a plugin that's $29, regular $399. Here's a plugin that is regularly...here, here's a set. Here's a perfect example, here is a set of plugins, regularly$4,000.
• 6:19
  Dave Kropf: But you can save 91% By using the coupon and get in for $350 to get this whole suite of plugins.
• 6:29
  Dave Kropf: And so deals like this, they run all the time. And they're killer deals. But are they a little too good to be true. And I'm here to say, kind of, as long as you know what you're getting into, as long as you know, the bargain that you are making when you go all in on Waves. It reminds me of the maybe, maybe, maybe this will uh, date me. But if you're of a certain age, you probably remember Columbia House. Give me a shout out if you if you remember Columbia House CDs, or cassette deals and if you're too young to to know, here's how it worked. Columbia House and BMG Music, what they did was they would sell you 10 CDs for a penny.
• 7:22
  Dave Kropf: And sometimes the mailers would actually have pennies taped into the mailer, like you would get, you know, junk mail, or you would get junk mail, and there would be an envelope and in the envelope would be a penny. And they would say, Get 10 CDs for a penny. And you'd fill out the little form.
• 7:46
  Dave Kropf: And this was pre internet, right? So you'd have to write a little code, because it gave you a giant catalogue of all the CDs they make, or the CDs that they have access to. And so you would write the little code numbers, and you would you know, you would sign up for it. You know, I guess you'd send them a penny, or whatever. And then, you know, three to six weeks later, you'd get a box with 10 CDs, that were only a penny. And you're like God, this is fantastic. This is amazing. But there were a couple of catches. You were on the hook to buy X number of CDs, within a year at full price. And usually the CDs, they weren't ever on sale again. Usually they were $20 or whatever. And then you'd be on the hook to buy 10 or 20 or however many CDs. And I don't know about you, but I don't think I ever...I don't think I ever actually fulfilled my obligations to Columbia House. I got my free CDs and ran! I mean, you know, we'd buy a couple but you know, you're in college you're you're kind of a dumb kid and you're just like a free CDs, whatever. Yeah. But you were on the hook for those. And I think I think I might have been sent to collections at one point for not fulfilling my Columbia House obligation. And what I would do--and this is terrible, this is, I'm just I'm just gonna...this is really terrible--I'd use fake names, you know, to get more CDs and I can't imagine why they're not in business because chumps like me were taking advantage of the system. So maybe there's another there's a whole other podcast episodes in there.
• 9:50
  Dave Kropf: But come to find out, they actually weren't selling you the CDs that you could buy off the shelf. They would get--my understanding is--they would get the masters from the record companies.
• 10:05
  Dave Kropf: And then they would print and press their own CDs.
• 10:16
  Dave Kropf: They would print and press the own actual CDs themselves the artwork, they would reprint all the artwork, they would package the jewel cases and all of that. And then a lot of times there's like a notch in them in the CD in the in the jewel jewel box, jewel case, but you weren't getting, I mean, the audio quality was the same, but you weren't getting the CD you could buy. So the reason that they could sell you 10 CDs for a penny was because they were making them in house at a fraction of what it would cost, you know, to buy them or to get them wholesale from a record company, and then send them to you. So they were printing them all in house, they'd get you on the hook. And they would make their money in theory, they would make their money from you, either buying 10 more CDs, or you being sent to collections, and they're getting their money one way or the other.
• 11:17
  Dave Kropf: But they would get you in there. And my whole point here is they would get you in the door with the deal, they would entice you into the deal. But there was this back end obligation, which, if you knew what was happening, then then cool, you're fine. But if you didn't know that, that's like the fine print, then you could get stuck, because start dinging your credit. And Waves feels like that, for me, they get you in the door with these 91% discounts. And you're like, This is amazing, because again, they are good plugins, and the deals are insane. But that comes with a future obligation. And what I mean by that is, if you want to make sure your plugins continue to work, then you will have to pay more later down the road. And I don't mean like in the subscription service kind of way, you know, to where the plugins will just break because you didn't pay your monthly fee. And therefore they're just kind of stop working usually. Usually, it's with like, if version of logic or your DAW upgrades, or an operating system upgrade or something like that--and I get it, things have to change, you know, development cost money, I get all of that--but I didn't really understand Waves, subscription subscription Waves update policy.
• 12:56
  Dave Kropf: When I got all in I got all in on thing on version nine of plug of Waves version nine right now they're on Waves, 14, but I got in on version nine. And I didn't really understand this. I just started like vacuuming up all of these killer deals. Actually, no, it wasn't version nine, it was like version seven or eight. That's when I kind of bought them all ala carte. And something happened operating system or logic updated. And suddenly I went to go install the plugins. And the plugins just didn't work. That might have been when I went from my laptop to my iMac, I think it was which would have been about eight years ago.
• 13:38
  Dave Kropf: And the plugins just didn't work. I had them over here they were working on my laptop, I went to go install them on my new iMac and I couldn't, I don't think I could even install them they were just broken. Sorry this this plugin no longer works.
• 14:02
  Dave Kropf: And that's when I started going oh, there's a cost, there's a cost for these super cheap plugins. 91% Discount comes at a future cost and so I went in and bought their version nine plugins I guess it was and I updated to it they got me in the door by saying hey, you can either update all of these plugins one at a time or or you can upgrade to like the gold package which comes with all of these plugins look at 'em! And this is 91% off or something like that. I don't remember the specifics of the deal. It's been many years and so I went okay, so it's cheaper for me to just update my whole package from from ala carte to gold. And then I get a whole slew of other plugins I'm like, Oh wow, look at all these plugins that I'll never use. But I was enticed by future me could possibly use this random compressor or whatever. Which I'm sure is fantastic. And so I did. I upgraded to like the gold package or whatever, and all was, well. I had my version nine plugins, things were going swimmingly until.. fast forward a couple of years...and the plugins break again. Now you need version 11 in order... AND you could either upgrade them all one at a time or or you probably see where this is going or you can upgrade to the gold-diamond-platinum-insert whatever precious resource we want to call it, whether it's a gem or a metal upgrade to Diamond-Platinum-Plus-Ruby-Gold-Pressed-Latinum and you don't have to pay the update fee. So I did I. updated to that to the next highest level. And it's getting kind of increasingly more expensive.
• 16:44
  Dave Kropf: But suddenly my my ala carte $29 investment is now expanding into arguably probably what I would have paid to begin with if it wasn't 91% off. So I'm like, okay. All right, I see what you're doing here Waves, I'm on to you. And I started pulling back from Waves. What I mean is I, I stopped becoming dependent on them. Which is a mind thing.
• 17:14
  Dave Kropf: It's a it's a mindset. And I don't think that's what Waves is going for. I think Waves wants me to love their plugins, which some of them I absolutely do. And there are two plugins that I still use to this day. But all of the other plugins whether it was like the the the L2 Maximizer or, or ultimizer or or whatever it's called the L2 compressor, isn't it and the compressor? The Renaissance bass, the all of the Chris Lord-Alge things, the CLAS, all of the reverbs, the de-esser, all of the plugins, I have found other solutions, because of the taste in my mouth that was left by this hamster wheel of upgrading. It's like if you're gonna do a subscription, then just freakin do a subscription.
• 18:19
  Dave Kropf: Don't do this back door, get 100 plugins for a penny and then make me, in in a period of frustration, begrudgingly pay you money.
• 18:39
  Dave Kropf: So, fast forward to the last couple of weeks. I got a new Mac Studio sitting right over there. I haven't named her yet but I'm sure I will. my iMac is right here. It's where's it's right there. I keep it close by so I can network into it. Because I'm just finding--if anybody's ever updated their machine or transferred to a new machine--this is a fresh install. I didn't do any Migration Assistant or anything. Because I do believe in if you're if you're upgrading especially going from you know 2014 iMac to a 2022 MAC studio. Just clean install. Yes. And so just finding little plugins and oh! OK, I need that plug in, oh, I haven't updated my XML and audio up I need my zebra login and in key code and serial number and all that stuff. So just having a super close by going back and forth. So it's right there. But--and I knew it I knew it deep, deep in my spirit--I knew that all freaking Waves man. Waves is gonna get me. I know it! Waves is gonna get me and they did. Not only because I was updating my operating system, from Big Sur to Monterey, but also going from Intel based to the M1 chip...and I knew I'd be I knew I would be on the hook for something. And when it came time, I looked at all of them because I need the M1-compatible, the apple silicon native all that stuff. That makes a real big difference. You know why pay for this really fancy new computer or if you're using plugins which is using middleware to make sure that they work so I wanted the the M1 versions. But...based off of kind of what I just was talking about, the weird ickiness I had from feeling nickel and dimed every time I, I wanted to update my system or update logic or whatever. I only updated two plugins--and parenthetically, they are the Vocal Rider plugin which is fantastic. And the OneKnob series of plugins because I use OneKnob Pressure, it is my absolute go-to for quick and dirty parallel compression on drums. It's so freakin easy. I set it to pad, dial it up to about six and a half and mission accomplished. I don't have to worry about anything else. And then the Vocal Rider because I do so much, just like like this with spoken word stuff, podcast production, the vocal rider automates automates the fader essentially and makes it really easy. But now, Izotope's come out with with vocal leveler. So I'm looking at that with it's one of the the the RX advanced modules. But it was going to cost me like an extra 300 bucks to update all of the plugins. Or, of course, I could have updated my entire suite of plugins to the next thing, to the Mercury--now they're talking about like planets or something--to the mercury edition or whatever. And I'm like, nope, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times, I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. So I didn't do it. The two plugins I needed. I updated. I didn't update anything else.
• 22:30
  Dave Kropf: In fact, I didn't install anything else. Because I had weaned myself from their plugins. Slowly one by one replacing alright, de-esser is going to get this, this the ultimizer or maximizer or whatever is gonna get this plugin. But the Vocal Rider and the OneKnob series. Those are those are the I'll update those. But even like the Abbey Road, the Abbey Road vinyl effect, or the tape delay or whatever, like lots of really very cool plugins, but I am not going to I'm not going to fall in love with something that's going to just break my heart down the road.
• 23:32
  Dave Kropf: And not to mention kind of kind of the pain that I felt in updating for especially from version nine to version 11. Wow, it was like this is over here and it's broken. But this is this update path and so on multiple update paths, upgrading from old versions also was a real, real pain in the butt.
• 23:52
  Dave Kropf: It was really really a headache. And so once again Waves if anybody's I don't think anybody's watching from Waves, but I didn't think anybody was watching from Avid last time I went all ranty on a company and I had a zoom call with somebody from Avid I can't remember if I've talked about that let me know in the comment can't remember because I'd be happy to tell talk about that conversation that I had with Avid had one of their customer relations folks reach out to me it was a good conversation. But anyway, that's not what this is about. But Waves. I don't know what the solution is here because we are so far down this rabbit hole that like, how do you pull back from this? Because I love the fact that the deals are really really good. But this update plan where you have like one year of updates. So I have one year from when I bought my last plugin one year and I'll get free updates but it's not like updates come out frequently enough to where you'll get in on the year. I don't know. Part of me wishes it was just an upfront subscription fee and I know I hear you I hear you I hear the screaming through the internet. But at least I I would know because what we have here is an ersatz subscription service brought about by pain points. Brought brought about by frustration and breaking things, sorry, your plugin is just broke. So I guess your only choice is to update it. That's like I feel I feel like I'm getting shaken down by the mob.
• 25:42
  Dave Kropf: Maybe that's a little extreme. But we've all been there, updating our system, updating plugins, something's not going right, and you're just pulling your beard out. I guess for me, this is mega frustrating. And I don't think Waves wants that as a business practice, I don't think that's a good business practice. And in the long run, I don't know how sustainable it is. Or there will always be folks willing to send their penny along so that you can get their 10 Free CDs. And future them is going to be on the hook. And if that's you, that's cool. If you're down with Waves, that's cool. I'm only bringing this up because I want you to know, I want you to know what you're in for. I want you to know that it is essentially a subscription service...that isn't a subscription service. And if you're okay with that, if you're okay with deferring payment, until down the line and waiting, waiting for something to break, and then you upgraded, then that's fine. But just know that's what you're getting in for, getting into. I didn't know. Maybe I was naive, or maybe I was just so excited about getting these really amazing plugins, the the big boy professional plugins, like, okay, it's ready, step up to the plate. And I didn't realize that, so I hit that brick wall three times now. And I just won't give them any more of my money. Honestly, unless they come up with a subscription service, I would rather do that. I would rather pay them 100 bucks a year, 200 bucks a year to get everything possible that they make. Yes, I'm on board for that. Maybe they do and I just haven't found it yet. I'd be absolutely on board for that. And then with an update comes out, I don't have to worry about if it breaks, I just click OK. Now I know for a fact that there are folks out there who would never do that. And that's fine.
• 28:09
  Dave Kropf: But the way it's being run right now, has completely pushed me away from Waves to the point where I'm making a podcast episode about it.
• 28:15
  Dave Kropf: Talking to the internet, to internet strangers--and internet friends, Hello, internet, friends and family and patrons! But I'm just not I have my two that I'm going to use. And I have replaced every other Waves plugin that was part of my routine with other plugins. But what about you?
• 28:33
  Dave Kropf: What do you think? How do you feel about Waves' business practices? Have you been caught by the dragnet of Waves updating hamster wheel? Or like I said, maybe you're fine with sending your penny off and getting your 10 Free the-- free CDs?
• 28:57
  Dave Kropf: Please let me know. I absolutely want to hear from you in the comments. I do read them all and I make every effort to respond to them. But uh, please, please let me know. All right, so we're going to take a quick quick break, we're going to hear from Mrs. 52 Cues, talking about 52 Cues. But when we come back, we're going to be listening to an indie alt rock Cue written by Darin Peckham, but we'll be listening to that right on the other side of this break.
• 29:28
  Shannon Kropf: Hey, y'all, I'm Shannon Kropf. And I want to tell you that the 50 T Cues podcast is made possible by viewers and listeners just like you, composers and producers who are looking for a better way to connect and collaborate. You see 52 Cues isn't just another website selling static pre recorded videos to a mass audience. It's a fun, vibrant and positive community that comes together online for sharing cues, getting feedback and discussing what's up in the production music industry. You'll find both personalized feedback and live interaction which are the best and fastest ways to grow your skills and earn more placements. The best part is that the 50 Take us community is absolutely free. And when you're ready to take your career to the next level, we offer friends and family subscriptions which unlock weekly live streams, live interactive group feedback sessions, monthly interactive workshops and more. Head over to 52cues.com and sign up today. And while you're there, check out our personalized feedback videos private lessons. And of course merch I can't wait to see you at 52cues.com?
• 32:15
  Dave Kropf: All right that was "To the Finish Line" by Darin, Darin Peckham. thank you so much Darin for sending this along. This was submitted for our week 32 Earth yeah week 32 feedback thread. Darin obviously, honestly not a lot to add to this I think this is absolutely on point. It's got that whole indie alt-rock vibe to the boots and claps kind of a feel to it. Really the only thing that was missing was some some "whoas" or some "heys" or something, something like that. But I think this was absolutely firing on all cylinders. No pun intended. I could hear this absolutely underneath some sort of sports broadcasting or even like things like cell phone commercials that kind of thing. I can absolutely absolutely hear that for this of the thing I will notice at the beginning and I'm not sure if this is gonna come across on the podcast or on YouTube there's a really low rumble at the top way way down it feels like it might be a floor tom or something way way way down in the mix but it's there and also, I don't not sure if it's my system or my headphones I actually started troubleshooting it right before I was recording it feels a little right-heavy little, uh, just feels a little right-heavy. I'm, I'm not sure I'm not sure if it's a guitars or my ears but I think this is all absolutely absolutely working coming out of this section. Let's put a crash on the downbeat right here. Put a crash, kick and a crash, really land that downbeat fantastic hook absolutely fantastic Probably need another gear of energy. This happened at the beginning too like we had kind of hook.
• 34:37
  Dave Kropf: that's an x we had two times through this hook that second time through can we add a little bit of extra energy to really kind of push it? And it might be as simple as as an octave above like adding, adding an octave or adding another high kind of *mimics guitar* something I'm not really guitarist but back this up.
• 35:12
  Dave Kropf: Sorry, went went into the B section there. See if I can kind of hear something something like this *sings line*. And maybe some of those horn stabs in those horn stabs that we had at the beginning. Didn't we have some horn stabs? Yeah.
• 35:40
  Dave Kropf: Yeah, yeah, I think we can go...I think we could bring those horns in because I don't hear don't really hear much in the way of the horn line out of that intro. Maybe it's there. Yeah, yep. Yep.
• 36:03
  Dave Kropf: Yep, that's how I would solve that. Bring the horn line back. I mean, you pay them to be at the gig, so might as well might as well use them. Coming here to the end.
• 36:33
  Dave Kropf: Nice. Come up to the button.
• 36:45
  Dave Kropf: Yep, absolutely. This is all this is all working brilliantly, really, really well done. I do appreciate you sending this along. As I said, this cue was submitted during our weekly feedback thread, specifically for our week 32 feedback thread. And in Darin said, this was for a TAXI listing. And I would love to hear how that goes.
• 37:03
  Dave Kropf: I've said this before the TAXI doesn't accept this, then then I think things are broken. But I've said it before, and that's bitten me in the butt. But, but I think this is absolutely fantastic, fantastic job. And so like I said, it was submitted during our weekly feedback, thread over 52 Cues. And if this is something that you enjoy, or if this is something that you want to get some feedback on your own cues, then head over to 52cues.com. And join us we put those feedback threads together every week, put them out every single week, we're running currently our week 33 feedback thread, and why don't you join us and you know, if you found this feedback helpful, and maybe you'd like personalized our in depth, feedback, video critique of your own cue where you know, I break, break down things like form structure harmony, mix and a ton more than once you head over to 52cues.com/coaching. And while you're over there, you can check out you know, some of my other coaching services like one on one zoom sessions, where we can really work together towards crafting your own career goals and Production Music. So once again, thank you so much for joining us. And I also want to give a huge shout out to the family, friends and patrons of 52 cues, who helped keep all of the lights on here and keep everything going. But that's going to do it for us this week. But be sure to tune in next week, where I'm going to be talking about the five steps you should be taking to start a career in production music. Five steps to starting a career in production music, maybe maybe you're a composer right now, maybe you're just out of college, or maybe you you've been a music director or you've been a gigging performer. And you've you've heard a lot about this production music thing. And you really want to kind of dip your toe into those waters where well I'm going to talk to you next week about the five steps that you should be taking to starting your production music career.
• 39:09
  Dave Kropf: So again, thank you so much for joining us. That's going to do it for this week. And as always, I hope you have an amazing week and I am confident that the universe has amazing plans for you. But until next time, peace. The 52 Cues podcast is copyright 2022 Dave Kropf. All rights reserved.
• 39:28
  Dave Kropf: The music played on the podcast is copyright of their respective owners and is used for educational purposes only. For more information including joining the 52 Cues community and submitting your cue for consideration on the podcast, head over to 52cues.com