Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Neera Tanden - The Democratic Party's Credibility Problem — And How to Fix It

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Interview Only w/ Neera Tanden - The Democratic Party's Credibility Problem — And How to Fix It · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: This episode of The Chuck Podcast is brought to you
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  Speaker 1: by Chapter. Now, almost everything you hear about medicare is
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: somebody quietly trying to steer you somewhere, and you're skeptical
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: of that, as you should be. I get it. I mean,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: there's a federal lawsuit going on right now over exactly
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: this companies that branded themselves as unbiased while allegedly pointing
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: people toward whatever would pay them the most, as some
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: sort of broker. So if your default is to distrust
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: everyone in this space, honestly, I get it. I'm a
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  Speaker 1: bit distrustful these days myself. That's the whole reason I
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  Speaker 1: want to tell you about Chapter. They're independent medicare advisors
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: whose entire model is that their advisors are not paid
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: to push any one plan. They're just trying to help. Yes,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: there's compensation that goes with it, but it's across the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: board is what they're trying to do. At the end
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  Speaker 1: of the day, they're advocating for you. They're not the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: insurance companies themselves. They're an actual person who actually goes
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: through your doctors, your prescriptions needs, and then compares them
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: to every single plan available to find the best one.
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  Speaker 1: That will work for you and hopefully send save you
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a couple of dollars too. And here's the part that
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: sets Chapter apart. They don't disappear once you've been in
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: a role. They will keep advocating for you. They're kind
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: of like almost like a concierge service. You're just there.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I need help. You're like customer service. You know the plan,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you know, help me navigate this again. So you ever
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  Speaker 1: get hit with a wrongful medical bill, they'll help you
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  Speaker 1: fight it. They want to stay an advocate for you
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  Speaker 1: even after you've done this. So look, I get it.
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  Speaker 1: I think there's all sorts of space. You see a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people are throwing themselves in this healthcare space.
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  Speaker 1: When I like about these Chapter folks, I've spent time
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  Speaker 1: with them. This is a very transparent organization. It is Medicare,
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  Speaker 1: and all of its affiliated stuff can be very confusing.
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  Speaker 1: The whole point of this is to make this easier
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  Speaker 1: and less confusing. Okay, so look, take this cupticism you
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  Speaker 1: already have in all of this, pointed at your own
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  Speaker 1: plan for twenty minutes. It's free, there's no pressure, and
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  Speaker 1: then call Chapter today at nine eight zero seven three
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  Speaker 1: four three nine eight five. Well, joining me now is somebody.
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  Speaker 1: If you're on social media you see her a lot.
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  Speaker 1: I think near atandon Is is sometimes a one woman
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  Speaker 1: defense mechanism on X, since pretty much everybody on Team
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  Speaker 1: Blue Left X not a ton of folks there. You
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  Speaker 1: may also know her from her days working for the
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  Speaker 1: Biden whine House, the Obama whine House, Hillary Clinton for President.
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  Speaker 1: I've known her an incredibly long time, even though we
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  Speaker 1: look so youthful, the two of us, and our current
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  Speaker 1: job title is President of the Center for American Progress,
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  Speaker 1: and in many ways it is you could argue, and
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  Speaker 1: I don't know whether she'd pushed back on this or not.
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  Speaker 1: I'll let her decide. It's kind of the democratic government
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  Speaker 1: in exile, perha Apps. The next democratic administration in exile
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  Speaker 1: is a a what in that you certainly are incubating
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  Speaker 1: governing strategies for the next time Democrats are in charge.
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  Speaker 2: No, I mean, I like.
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  Speaker 3: To say that we're developing ideas for the country's most
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  Speaker 3: significant problems, and those people.
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  Speaker 2: Would be great leaders in the future.
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  Speaker 1: But I don't like the word exile, like you know.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mind.
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  Speaker 3: I don't mind government and exile, but I just think,
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  Speaker 3: you know, our focus is on the next generation of ideas.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about in some ways your You're I feel
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  Speaker 1: like you're you're now working for the Hailey Stevens campaign.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure you, and you're trying really hard not to.
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  Speaker 1: I know, I take your point, like, I see what
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  Speaker 1: you're trying to do on social media. So let's start there.
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  Speaker 1: What do you think is happening inside the Democratic Party
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  Speaker 1: right now? Take yourself out of it for a second. Right,
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  Speaker 1: you're on a side here, understandable, there is definitely a
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  Speaker 1: side trying to go after the establishment. What is happening?
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  Speaker 1: How do you explain this outsiders?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: Maybe I could just start off with what I think
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  Speaker 3: is the opportunity for like Democrats or people who like rationality,
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  Speaker 3: and I'll definitely answer this thing.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's fine, I get it because this reminds me
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  Speaker 1: and I want to get it. This reminds me of
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  Speaker 1: Republicans twenty ten and twenty fourteen. They had this huge
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  Speaker 1: opportunity in front of them, and they were having a
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  Speaker 1: huge fight about who should lead in this huge opportunity.
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  Speaker 1: This is Democrats in twenty six in my opinion.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think what's happening in the country.
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  Speaker 3: I think what's happening in the Democratic Party is a
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  Speaker 3: combination of a real anger.
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  Speaker 2: Towards the Trump administration.
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  Speaker 3: And I guess I would say, you know, at a
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  Speaker 3: very high level, what I think is so interesting about
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  Speaker 3: the discourse is like we act like this just started today,
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  Speaker 3: and you know, there was actually a first Trump administration.
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  Speaker 2: And during the first Trump administration we.
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  Speaker 3: Have the rise of the DSA, and for the first
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  Speaker 3: time DSA had one beat incumbent Democrats, kind of famously
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  Speaker 3: Alexandria Casio Cortez beats Crowley, and there's the growth of
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  Speaker 3: the Squad. Now what also happened is Biden, Joe Biden
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  Speaker 3: was elected and people forget this part, but two of
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  Speaker 3: the squad members are defeated in primaries in part because
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  Speaker 3: they were not considered supportive enough of Democrats, and the
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  Speaker 3: DSA actually as a membership organization really kind of collapsed.
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  Speaker 3: And now we're in the second Trump term and it's
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  Speaker 3: Trump is worse, right, And I'd say, what's happening the
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  Speaker 3: Democratic Party is also we should be totally honest, like
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  Speaker 3: the job the Democratic Party was to keep Trump out
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  Speaker 3: of office, and the establishment.
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  Speaker 2: Did fail in doing that. Now there's ironies.
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  Speaker 1: I'm want to stop. Let me let's let's put up
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  Speaker 1: let's put up in. Yeah, this has been my thesis
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  Speaker 1: as to what's driving this. It was sort of like
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  Speaker 1: one Trump term. We can chalk it up to an anomaly. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: but you at one job, Joe Biden, right, and whether
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  Speaker 1: this is fair to Biden or not. And I always
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  Speaker 1: thought this is what made his presidency so difficult to
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  Speaker 1: gain traction because the one thing people wanted out of
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  Speaker 1: Joe Biden he accomplished on his first day in office,
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  Speaker 1: and then everything else became Okay, now what are you
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  Speaker 1: doing for us? And then it's like, wait a minute,
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  Speaker 1: he's back. You were supposed to change the narrative enough
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  Speaker 1: that there wouldn't be a demand for him back. So
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  Speaker 1: you do see that as almost the central for animating
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  Speaker 1: force right now of this sort of anti establishment left.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, what is odd to me, honestly is if
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  Speaker 3: you think that it was wrong for Joe Biden to
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  Speaker 3: run again. The kind of irony of the situation we're
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  Speaker 3: in is that it was Nancy Pelosi, who kind of
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  Speaker 3: queen of the establishment, who thought the con thought, you know,
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  Speaker 3: Joe Biden was probably going to lose, and it could
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  Speaker 3: have been. I had never talked to her about this, but
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  Speaker 3: I imagined she thought that they electoral consequences could be
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  Speaker 3: quite grave of that, and chose to act. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: the irony Again, we don't go off on this for
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  Speaker 3: a long.
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  Speaker 1: Time, but it was like acting after June twenty seventh.
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  Speaker 1: Anybody could do make that decision. Sorry, the question was
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  Speaker 1: where were you? Yes, where were you January? Where were they?
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  Speaker 1: Where was Nancy Pelosi? Frankly December of twenty two when
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  Speaker 1: it should have been, Hey, we did it. We had
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  Speaker 1: the best midterm of sitting democratic president has had in
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  Speaker 1: a generation. And I can't wait to pass the Batona.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to focus on finishing this term strong. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not seeking reelection, and he would have done it from
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  Speaker 1: a position of strength.
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  Speaker 3: Sure, you know I've been I have like one hundred
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  Speaker 3: percent agreeing that part of the critique of the like
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  Speaker 3: the establishment is that they maybe allowed this to go
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  Speaker 3: on so long.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the thing that I just take.
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  Speaker 3: A little I find a little bit of an like
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  Speaker 3: an ironic twist of history is that the people who
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  Speaker 3: were supporting President Biden to even like at the end,
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  Speaker 3: were Senator Sanders and a congressman a cousin Ortez, We're
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  Speaker 3: not a democratic establishment. I mean, I don't know what
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  Speaker 3: to make Someone should ask them, you know. It's like,
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  Speaker 3: if people are so concerned about the failures of the
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  Speaker 3: democratic establishment, someone can ask them. I mean, I don't
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  Speaker 3: generally know what to make of it, but I guess
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  Speaker 3: what i'd say instead of like, I do think this
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  Speaker 3: is why the establishment has less credibility than it has
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  Speaker 3: had in the past, And like, I get that one
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  Speaker 3: hundred percent. What I would say, regardless of the establishment
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  Speaker 3: or the anti establishment. Let me paint a vision of
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  Speaker 3: what I think is possible over the next few years.
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  Speaker 3: And what i'd say is and you know this is
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  Speaker 3: as well, if not better than I do. Which is
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  Speaker 3: what we are seeing now for the first time in
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  Speaker 3: the Trump era, is people who have been with Trump
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  Speaker 3: a very long time are breaking away. My kind of
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  Speaker 3: rough estimate here the way talk about this at a
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  Speaker 3: very high level. In the first year, Trump lost people
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  Speaker 3: who voted for him one time, right, he kind of
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  Speaker 3: had lost He lost young people, he lost Latinos, he
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  Speaker 3: lost Asians. These are people who kind of voted for
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  Speaker 3: him in twenty four over over twenty or sixteen. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: now with the Iran war on top of the tariffs,
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  Speaker 3: and you know, sort of this like out of ice situation.
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  Speaker 3: People who voted for him three times mostly i'd say
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  Speaker 3: disproportionately white, non college women, that people who haven't gone
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  Speaker 3: to college, who formed the backbone of his support. There
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  Speaker 3: are groups of those voters who are thinking, I'm kind
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  Speaker 3: of peace out here, like this has been too much
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  Speaker 3: for me. They're not running to the Democratic Party, but
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  Speaker 3: they are definitely expressing concern about Trump. That is how
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  Speaker 3: you get from the low like mid to low forties
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  Speaker 3: to the high thirties.
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  Speaker 2: That is like my attention.
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  Speaker 3: So the real problem of this last ten years, in
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  Speaker 3: my mind, has been that the elections are so close, right,
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  Speaker 3: Every election is like a fifty to fifty election, right,
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  Speaker 3: and it doesn't it's not big enough to repudiate any
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  Speaker 3: of the tactics of the other side.
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  Speaker 1: And by the way, there's no self reflection because you think, geez,
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  Speaker 1: if only so.
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  Speaker 3: Close reflection, no need to think hard about a different path.
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  Speaker 3: Since every election is close enough, you don't get the
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  Speaker 3: members of Congress at the lowest level wondering like, oh,
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: what are we doing? Because they can still win their races,
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  Speaker 3: or enough of them can win the races. So in
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  Speaker 3: my mind, like the goal of the next three years
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  Speaker 3: should be to have actually break out of the cycle,
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: to have an election which is a consequential election where
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  Speaker 3: it's you know, win by four or five points hard
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  Speaker 3: to imagine, but doable four or five points and have
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: a large scale electoral college victory. So at all parts
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  Speaker 3: of the Republican Party people really wonder about a pathword
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: and whether there's a non Maga pathword. And the reason
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  Speaker 3: why this matters to me, I would just say for
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: me is because I don't want to do politics the.
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  Speaker 2: Rest of my life.
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  Speaker 3: I don't want every election to be super influential. I
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  Speaker 3: would like to be able to think, like, not read
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: the newspaper every day, worrying about what person's going to
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: get picked off the street or whatever, like you know,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: whether we're going to go to war.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the consequences of politics have become so huge
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  Speaker 2: and I would like to return to a world and
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  Speaker 2: we're never going to go like this.
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  Speaker 3: I think it is wrong for Democrats to think of
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  Speaker 3: a return to normal, but they can think of a
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  Speaker 3: different kind of stability in the country, and so to me,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: just to bottom line it is, yeah, you should really
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: think of what that coalition is needed need.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you and I both know that. I mean
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  Speaker 1: it's look, I mean, the fact is, I'm sort of
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a dog with a bone. I'm sort of in a
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: bad place with both parties right now because it's so
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: obvious how to build a sixty percent coalition, but nobody
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: wants to do it, right, The Republicans don't want to
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  Speaker 1: do it, and the Democrats don't want to do it.
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  Speaker 3: You can, well, I want I really, I I just say,
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  Speaker 3: speaking for myself, I feel really interested in doing that.
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  Speaker 1: No, I understand you do. But you see, like it is,
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  Speaker 1: you know, do I think Chuck Schumer would like to
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: do that? Sure, but everybody wants it on their terms.
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  Speaker 1: Nobody wants it on the voters terms, right like which
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  Speaker 1: is you know I'm watching you know, take believe I'm
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  Speaker 1: one of these people that believes forty of our fifty states,
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  Speaker 1: our fifty to fifty states, as long as you know
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  Speaker 1: where the fifty percent marker is, because the problem is
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: not every fifty percent line is in the same spot. Yeah, right,
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  Speaker 1: And there's always overreach by one party or the other
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  Speaker 1: there's always an opportunity if you're willing to do it right,
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  Speaker 1: if you're willing to be Charlie Baker in Massachusetts, if
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you're willing to be John Bell Edwards in Louisiana. Right,
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  Speaker 1: we've seen this, and it does seem as if that
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: that is that winning. I mean, you keep pointing this out.
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  Speaker 1: I don't think the left wants to win. Right, I go,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and I keep the phrase I love Lately, as Matthew
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Iglesias sort of ripped off a phrase from the TV
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: show and Or, where the main character says do you
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: want to fight or do you want to win? And
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Matthew's whole point was he's it's increasingly obvious that the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: left's more interested, particularly DSA. We know that, but even
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: DSA adjacent is more interested in having the fight over
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the direction of the Democratic Party rather than winning a
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: majority and seeing if you can incrementally make progress on
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: covering more people on healthcare.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think let me do something unusual, which is
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: perhaps rented the defense of the left. But the place
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: I would say that I think the left is more right.
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  Speaker 2: Than moderates is the following, which is, I think.
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  Speaker 3: A lot out of normy liberals or kind of normal democrats.
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  Speaker 3: A real problem where moderates have lost credibility is in
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  Speaker 3: the following, which is, I think sometimes moderate sound like
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  Speaker 3: they are for like incrementalism, and I think the hard
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: thing there is it is hard to look at the
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: United States and say, you know what, our problems are
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: kind of small, and if we just do them, do
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: issues around, We're just like.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Why do you define incrementalism? This is what bothers me. Okay, okay,
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  Speaker 1: I've used the example. One could argue civil unions was
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: a incrementalist policy. Yeah, but you couldn't have gotten the
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: same sex marriage without people realizing this civilist unions thing.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Actually it's kind of silly, it's kind of unnecessary. But
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: before we got to marriage, you had to sort of
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: show it, and then suddenly the public is like, oh, yeah,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: there's no difference, there's nothing here. And what happened support
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: for same sex marriage and the idea that there's a
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: distinction between civil unions and marriage. Right, it was, But
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I could make the case that if you never tried
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: civil unions you may never have gotten same sex marriage.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Social security is the greatest. My point is is that
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I'm tired of hearing because I call myself an incrementalist,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and to me, incrementalism has is exactly how we've gotten
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: major changes. Social Security is one of my favorite incremental
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: incrementalism stories. It started literally just to prevent old widows
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: from living in poverty, and then we said, you know what,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: how about people with disabilities? You know what, how about
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: everybody who's retired? Right Like, yes, over time we got there.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: You could not have passed that big idea all at once.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: So I do think, you know, this gets back at
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: where I think the left in the center, I agree
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: with you, moderates don't know how to sell that incrementalism
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: actually leads to major, you know, to hockey stick moments
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: in public policy, and the left doesn't understand that. If
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: you in a country of three hundred and fifty million people,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: if you believe in pluralism, and I've had people on
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: the left tell me f pluralism, I'm done with it.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: That's a whole nother story. If you want to f pluralism,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: then you're getting rid of America in the Constitution. But
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: go for it. Yeah, But I do think many in
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the left don't understand how many of the policies we've
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: successfully gotten to make progress in this country. All had
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to start with incrementalism. You wouldn't have gotten Civil Rights
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Act in sixty four and sixty five without Harry Truman
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: right doing the executive order in the US military. So yeah,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I just sort of ye, I almost want to give
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: a defense of incrementalism. Incrementalism has been the greatest change
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: agent in American government.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess i'd say a few things.
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  Speaker 3: Number One, this whole debate is basically encapsulated in the
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: kind of left now center debate on the ACA. Like
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I think it's a fundamental failure for people not to
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: understand what a huge success getting forty five million Americans
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: covered through the Affordable Care Act.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is a question.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: When we're going through the debate, the Conservatives weren't attacking it,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: laid us to incremental and now people are you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: now the thing is it's all incrementalism. But I think
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: the thing I would say to people and is the
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: truth is that things that can sound incremental to you
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: are not perhaps incremental to the public. And I'll give
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: a great example of this, which is a Medicare drug negotiation.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Like when you actually talk this was like the most
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: popular thing Joe Biden did. It was our top testing
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: like accomplishment, and the administration.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Still felt like they didn't talk about it enough.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: I still fel like I didn't talk about it enough.
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  Speaker 3: It was hugely successful.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Even successful. Trump took it over and were trying to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: keep it.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and to people, you know, actually, if you go
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: to people and say the government is going to ensure
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: that the price of I mean, it started with ten drugs,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: so like you know, fifty drugs a year, the prices
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: will come down. People would think of that as a
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: really big change in their lives. And this is where
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: I think the kind of like, you know, I will criticize,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I will have arguments with the left because you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: the real problem and medicure for all is not like
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure insurance companies don't like it.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: The real problem and medicure for all is humans are
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: very changeaverse on healthcare.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: That is why we had to build in the system.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: We ad to get the AFFORDABLELEK. Correct, I mean, but
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: when people forget as we were talking to liberals and
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: the left, we're talking about socialized medicine for thirty years
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: and it wasn't moving the dial. And finally we did ACA,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: which built truly built on the healthcare system. It wasn't
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: a radical restructuring and uh and it was able to pass.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I mean it took sixty folks, but we were still
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: abuilt to pass it.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: And the thing, like my most seminal learning during the
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: whole debate on the ACA was being in focus groups
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: where people were so change avers, like they didn't want
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: to lose their insurance. They were very susceptible to any
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: story of how they were going to lose their insurance
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: or have to pay more or do anything. And that
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: is the problem with like people want to point to
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: entrenched interests, and oftentimes there are obviously entrenched interests in
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Washington that stopped a strong majority.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: That happens all the time. They're not wrong about it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: But on some of these more transformative changes, like when
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: you tell people you know the government is going to
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: control healthcare, that means Donald Trump and RFK would be
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: in control, everyone would start paying. Right, But like, you know,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: you don't have these like rational discourses because it becomes
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: a discourse of not a policy debate, but a debate
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: about motives.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Right, you don't like, you know what.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: I feels like just to be totally candid about the
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: debates that we have in the Democratic Party. And I'm
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: online and I disagree with people, and the basic would
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: be like you're a murderer, progenocide or something. And you know,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: I'm now like old enough. I was in debates in
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: twenty sixteen where people took videos political leaders who would
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: not say keep it on the ground on climate and
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: they were called murderers. And then I was in twenty
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: twenty and people took videos of leaders who wouldn't support
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: so like Medicare for all. They were called murderers, and
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: the same thing happening. And I guess my take here
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: is like the world would be better off if we
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: just honestly debated, like you didn't think I was opposed
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: to you because I'm some kind of corporate person. And
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: the real problem is we have to build a majority
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: in the country in a country that's kind of conservative
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: on a lot of issues.
• 22:08
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  Speaker 1: vary and rates may vary. We're a libertarian country. We
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  Speaker 1: were founded. I always say this. We're kind of found
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: it more libertarian than anything else, you know, it's funny
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: about it. I want to say a libertarian and both
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: parties Oh, and I would argue is that both parties
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: literally reflect one half of that libertarianism. Right. Essentially, the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Democrats are a little more culturally libertarian and the Republicans
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: are a little more economically libertarian. Right, and which which
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: is why there's never been a successful I've always said
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the reason why the libertarians and theory, even though they're
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: basic things because we're an individualist society, right, we were
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: sort of founded that way. Everybody you know, it's American
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: dream is an individualistic goal, right, we don't talk about collectives.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: You know, that just isn't the United States. And I
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: do think both parties that's usually when one party overreaches
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: on that, right, looks like they're talking down and telling
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: you how to live. Either telling you how we're going
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: to tell you how to live your life, you know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: big government way the way strong government way Trump's doing now,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: or we're going to tell you how to live your
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: life culturally, you know, what you can laugh at and
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: who can tell a joke? Right in Any time you
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: move too far away from that, I think that is
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: when you see you actually see the boomerang.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, okay, this is so odd because I'm
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: going to defend left and we're ver dry, and I
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: think there are a lot of people in the middle.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: On the left, like maybe even.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Some conservatives, I don't know conservative, maybe it's just independence,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: but definitely a lot of working class people. So I
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: guess to me, I would say, if I were just
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: a strategist for the Democratic Party, which I'm definitely not,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I would be trying to organize elections and so that
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: you could an organize messaging so you could attract a
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: larger group of working class people into the fold. And
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: this should not you know, like the party has normally
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: been considered the party of the underdog.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: It should be something we think about it.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: And I'd say, you know, I do think a lot
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: of people walk around and wonder, in a country as
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: wealthy as this, how is it, you know, where you
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: have a trillion error, how is it that like people
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: have to struggle to make ends meet working two jobs.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: That is like a legitimate thing.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of working class people think that
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: are kind of economically populist in ways. Now that doesn't
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: mean they're socialists and redistributors, but I do think they think, wow,
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: we should tax super rich people more, and like I
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: think we should tax super rich people more too, and
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I think those are like reasonable pastures. I think the
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: difficulty in the Democratic Party is that sometimes we don't
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: acknowledge that working class people have bigger security concerns. And
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: my favorite not my favorite, and that I love it
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: so much, but a good example of this is crime.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Working class people experience crime at a higher rate than
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: college educated people, and they are more sensitive to crime.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: And I think sometimes the debates in the Democratic Party
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: come much more focused on not like how like really
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: struggling working class people have to like live their lives
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: and it's in those spaces. I mean, we're like, when
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: you really look at working class voters, they care, they
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: care about crime and immigration and security issues.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And you know, you said like al from from nineteen
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: eighty seven, and I don't I.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Don't have to say they're kind of.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I don't mean that as a negative either.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: No, but I mean like they're also more economically populist
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: in terms of they do think you should. I don't
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: even know if this is popular or just mainstream Democratic
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: at this point, but like, I think the it is
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: odd how little we've discussed the fact that we've done
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: five rounds of tax cuts for super super rich in
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: corporations in the course of two Republican administrations, and it
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: is a weird country that people do struggle to make
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: ends meet and there's so much wealth. And I do
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: think one last point, like I actually you think under
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Trump there's a greater concern about like I'm not sure
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: people know what this means, but like a true meaning
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: of oligarchy, that the super rich have so much power
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: over the political system and those are like super legitimate
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: anxieties in the country, like you should.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: That's like to drill down because there's a policy issue
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: that I think the Democrats have given up on on taxes.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Might look. My frustration is, I'm not a big fan
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: of trying to create a new ser tax when if
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: you just got rid of loopholes. Yeah, you know, if
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you know, if the if the rich actually paid thirty
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: nine percent without the loopholes, and basically guess what you
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: get once you have an income over five million, there
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: are no more tax deductions. You don't get any right,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: you know, you could create you know that that instead
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: of adding on, because when you add on, you actually
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: only create the conditions for more loopholes, right, and for
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: more of that and that. But I don't want to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: be distracted. I'll give you the one place where I
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: think there's money in the Banana Stan when it comes
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: to populism, and that is the inheritance tax. Frank Lunz.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Frank Lunz and Grovin Norquists, God bless them. The creation
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: the myth of the death tax was one of the
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: greatest political campaign victories of our generation. It was brilliant
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and it I arguably scared the lapt from going after
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: it anymore. It has been something that nobody proposes, Nobody
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: touches this anymore. And yet this if you want to
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: prevent an oligarchy, if you want to prevent essentially I mean,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: look at half the problem with it. I'm going to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: absolutely stereotype here, but these second generation wealthy kids, whether
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: they're super maga or super socialists, they're the ones causing
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: our problems that falla because they've never actually had to
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: have a job, they've inherited money, or they're living off
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: their parents and they're you know, suddenly deciding to pick
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: up the hobby of politics. So that the last part
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: is a little bit of my own old man yelling
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: at cloud. But I do think you would get popular
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: support on the inheritance tax situation in these days.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: One hundred resent Like, I'm a big fan of the
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: inheritance tax.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: And as you know, that's you know what people love
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: about tax You know, when people people are always in
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: favor of taxing somebody else, nobody. What's that everybody thinks
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: their taxes are too high, and everybody else's taxes are
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: too low, right, Well, what's the best way to rally
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: a majority of the country for somebody to have their
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: taxes raised. It's rich people when they die.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the truth of I mean, I guess
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: my view of this, which I think you're getting to, is,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: I think one of the things really ails the country
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: is that, you know, people are so deeply pessimistic that
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: their kids will do better than they will, and deeply
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: pessimistic that the American dream really exists today. And I think, like,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: you know, if you're trying to think of, like why
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: are we in the space that we have been for
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: the last ten years of like the Trump like in
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: power or trying to get in power but having more
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: popular support than he really should. Is I think that
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: a lot for a lot of people, it really feels
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: like the basic social contract of the country that you
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: can go as far as your talents can take you
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: has been eroded. And one of the reasons why it
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: has been eroded is you can you are more today
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: in a superclass than before. I mean, when you think
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: of the way that people can pass on the super
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: rich can pass on to the generational wealth and when
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: they do, they have a much better chance of getting
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: into eleade colleges. They have the networks to get the
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: best jobs. They are in just a different kind of
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: stratosphere than everyone else. And you know, I will say,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: like I grew up kind of struggling, and I feel
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: like I'm really really lucky. I have lived the American
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: dream my parents. I've experienced deep poverty, and I am
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: now in a job like this and I went from
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: deep poverty to working in the White House. But I
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: think the like and that's why, to me, like, the
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: most fundamental issue for today and into the future is
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: is that promise going to be alive? And there are
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: positive ways to ensure that there's real mobility for people,
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: but we should also recognize that people have a legitimate
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: anger at a world where there is entrenched wealth that
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: people who did nothing to earn that wealth. All you were,
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: All that happened is that you, like won the genetic
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: lottery and you have access to a world that very
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: few other people can even strive to get into.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: And I think that to me, if you believe in merit,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: like for all the.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Conservatives who genuinely believe in merit and argue for merit.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I believe merit is a really important thing. And as
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: a result, personally, I don't really understand why people who
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: have done nothing other than be genetically lucky should be
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: have not just one but all the Like.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Now we've done the numbers on this in that like,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: what could I mean because obviously the best way to
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: make a case, you know, like I said, I think
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: our inheritance tax structure is anti capitalist. That it's prol
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: or dark it is. And it wasn't always that way. Actually,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: we actually had.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: No we had we used to believe in meritocracy.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Right, it was about democratizing things, right, small democratization. And
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: you know this is a very recent but like I said,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Frank Lunson, Grovenor Quis got lesson right that death tax
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: marketing was brilliant, but it really did create help I think,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: accelerate this classify. Yeah, and also I mean that's a
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: big one.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: If you like the one of the issues with the
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: wealth tax is that it's hard to evaluate year to year.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: That what this end.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Easy budget is that what I mean if you're trying
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: to do ten year budgeting stuff.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: Is that well it's also like you just don't know
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: what the value of things are and then it's a
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: little bit hard to tax.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: And also I think this room court.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Will be pretty smart that it's not a it's not
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: an actual income tax, and you know, I don't think
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: it'll be found custodutional. But regardless, the merits of this
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: of a wealth tax apply to an estate tax. It's
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: just it's and you know, at death you can of
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: value all the things that people have, and you can
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: do this, it has to pass to somebody else, right,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: So that's an interesting.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: So you think the wealth tax might be unconstitutional and
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: you almost have to do it as a death tax.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Well, I think so, just just as a reminder, uh,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: we had to pass a constitutional amendment to get an
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: income tax because it was not. So the game of
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: the wealth tax is to say for people who propose
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: a wealth tax, is to say that it can be,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: you know, just defined as an income tax. And I
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: personally suspect even Elena Kagan is not going to like
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: fall through that one. So I do think progressive should
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: really think about another version of the tax. And then
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: a state tax doesn't have that failure. I mean, you
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: have to find doing it.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: State and obviously if you do it state by state.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: All you're doing is pitting states against each other.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, I mean and also, I personally don't
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: think it's like the greatest idea when like you have
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: a state like California that really relies on very wealthy
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: people to stay there to I mean, they're I mean,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: nobody thinks of this, but it is true.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Were in New York Cities mayor in New York City
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: is learning this?
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean in just to say, in California,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I know this like blows everyone's like heads, like, can't
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: imagine it's true. But actually, for working class people, middle
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: like very middle class people, taxes are the same in
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: California as they are in Florida and Texas. Texas are
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: much higher, and very wealthy people and they basically help
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: fund the system. So I mean, I guess my view
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: is that for people who think we don't tax wealthy
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: people enough, and that argument does come from the left,
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: they're right, we don't.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Text.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is a system where we've done like again,
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: don't do it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: You should actually still be fair about how you do it,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: and in some ways, right, it needs to be across
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the board, it needs to be in the tax code
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and there you know, it almost needs to be very.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Transparent and an't should be federal. It should be for everybody,
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: and it should be And I guess i'd say of
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: all the people who to me are the least sympathetic
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: in terms of I mean, I think we should tax
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: everyone more, every super wealthy person more. That the people
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: who I have the like least sympathy for are the
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: people who just again didn't do anything to earn the money.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: You know, like you could say, I mean, people can
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: have their requims with Jeff Bezos, but he like did
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: something creative to like make this money, and I definitely
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: think he should be tax more. But I think of
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos and Jeff Bezos's errors as completely different. Like
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Elon Musk kid kids, what do those people do? Like,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just like, you know, I mean, I
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: just think it's so and I think that that contributes,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: like to a sense of the democracy is kind of
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: undermined when you have like essentially no kind of economic
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: nobility in the country now.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: And this is where I think. Look, I think the
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: messaging challenge in the past used to be that why
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: is it that somebody who wouldn't be affected by this
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: tax hike. Why are they against this tax hike because well,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: back then people believe, well, maybe they'll be rich someday
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: and they don't want to pay that high time, right.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: And that's how you you would find working class people
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: who would have benefited from the tax hike on the
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: on the wealthy deciding now they're against that because of
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: the fear that it would just you know, there's two fears.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's the messaging challenge for the left,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: which is to say I'd be just calling a tax fairness,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: right and then and then finding a way to make
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: it about tax fairness.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think, look, a big problem in politics,
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: in my experience is someone will have an experience, you know,
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: ten twenty years ago and think it will be the
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: same today as it was then.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: And that's true for.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Politicians like the over indexed and the lessons of their
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: first campaigns or their big politician.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: I always want to know, tell me how they think
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: they won their first campaign, and I'll tell you how
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: they'll government exactly, and.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Then they'll value everything. And so the truth about that,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: you know, it's true.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: The right ran a death tax campaign and really undermined
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: the estate tax, and I just think like that really
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: took hold and the year nineteen ninety nine, two thousand.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: But attitudes in the nineties were radically different. I mean,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: just to remind everyone, inequality did grow in the nineties.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: It was the house on Days Mann, you know, the
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: nineties now looked like the nineties now look like the twenties. Yeah,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: you know, you're just like, what the hell was happening?
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: You know what the hell was like? People were like
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: in this like, yeah, Lilli's.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: This is very instructive about America, right, Okay, in the nineties,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: every income group moved up, like the bottom twenty, the
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: bottom forty, the bottom sixty, the.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Biody made money, but the rich made money faster.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: They made a lot more like Inequality definitely grew in
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties and were.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Bill Clinton produced more millionaires I think than any president before.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, he also, I mean, I feel like we had
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: a little less economic a little less political polarization because
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: everyone was doing a lot better than they had been doing.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: And again he'd also passed one of the most generous,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: generous wealthry distributions of the last fifty years. He did
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: a substantial increase in the earned income tax credit, so
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: like working people were also I mean, the economy is
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: doing well, but they also got more money. And like
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: my take of this is, I think there are really
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: important lessons and I think the erosion of economic mobility
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: for the bottom fifty percent over the last two decades
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: might contribute to a different assessment of an estate tax
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: today than they might have thought of.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: No, I took look, I just think it is a
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I think it is. It sounds like you and I
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: both agree here. It's like that's not a dead issue anymore,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: like you know, the politics that used to make that toxic.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think that the conditions exist and that there's
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: there's it's probably a more pragmatic way. If you're looking
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: for some new revenue, it's probably the most pragmatic place
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: to look.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: And I guess i'd say, you know, like I definitely
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: think that there are you know, ways in which you know,
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: the rise of DSA are really challenging.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: But I think, you know.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Smart leaders can try to understand what's energizing any kind
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: of movement. And here, you know, I mean, I don't
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: think you have a rise of the DSA unless without Trump,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: this term.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Oh look, the history of politics is reactionary movements create
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: reactionary movements.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and so my but like is.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: This was inevitable. The second Trump term was going to
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: turn the base of the Democrats into blue MAGA, and
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: we're seeing it. I know, I know some people don't
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: like it, but it does look more like blue Mega
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: than people want to admit.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Well, this is what I would say. I mean, we'll
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: see what. We'll test all this out probably the next
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: couple of months.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Well, Michigan is the great I mean, Michigan's the great
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Petri Dish potentially, you know.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: One, because just to sit back, I don't believe.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Black voters are going to pick the socialist over and
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: I think I'll do else. I had knowsed this, and
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I noticed he's trying to try to find some distance
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: with the DSA. So you got that. Just to say,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: then whether if he gets a nomination where they can
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: actually win, I don't know.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Well, so.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: I feel like I could talk about I talk about
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: that race all the time.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: But you know I would notice I feel like your
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: X feet is only that race.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: So just for just for the record, about this whole situation,
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: I just want to say for myself, you know, I
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: mean I worked with Hailey Stevens. I worked with her
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: in the she actually worked on the Hillary campaign. She
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: also worked on the Obama campaign. My singular experience with
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Hailey Stevens was she came to me and a lot
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: of other people, including like people you know, Brian Deese,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: Jeans Spurling when Obama won that race, when like all
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: the staff members on the campaign were like, how do
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: we go to the White House? And Haley came to
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: me and went to them too, they're all witnesses, and said,
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: I want to go work on the Auto task Force.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: I'm from Michigan. I want to help those people. Like
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: that's my like, she knows people who worked in not
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: and so seminal experience for me. And so then when
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: I look online and people are making fun of her
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: accent and like doing these things, like making fun of
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: the way she looks and all this stuff, I will say,
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: kind of triggering, and so I felt the need to
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: defend her.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: And as you can see, there's a lot of.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: Count response, but apart from Michigan, Like when you look
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: across the country, this isn't one hundred percent, But when
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: you look across the country, Democrats in swing states seem
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: to still remember that they are swing states, right, So
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: in Iowa, I really loved Zach Walls. I think Zach
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Walls is a great candidate, but was he was perceived
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: as more liberal than Josh Durick, who actually came from
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: a district that.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: He had read It wasn't a red district, but it
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: was redder.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Than what wheter rehdder.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: He'd been in a district that Trump won by six
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: and then he won by six not super red, but
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: he was able to pull some Trump voters suicide. He won,
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: you know, he won that primary pretty handily. Like obviously
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Texas is a very complicated place. But my own view
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: is that a lot of Liberals voted for Teleerigo because
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: they thought he had a better chance of winning against
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: whoever the Republican is going to be and.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: We're just one kind of dark.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: And and so I think this is a big question
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: in I mean, what's really happening in the Democratic Party
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: is not is a debate about who can win general elections.
• 44:58
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• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Is that the diffence in swing states?
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: I think in place like Colorado, if we want to
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: be really honest, in a state like Colorado, if people
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: think of themselves as kind of a blue state, it's
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: a blue city.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: What do you make of Minnesota? Because Minnesota that Democratic
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: primary for Senate. Look, I'm watching what the left is
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: doing in Minnesota, and I think they see an opportunity. Hey,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Minnesota is a pretty reliably blue state. Maybe if we
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: shift the politics from center left to progressive left, we
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: can be a great experiment. Except I think that's a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: recipe for turning Minnesota rep. And But I don't know
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: if Minnesota Democrats know that yet.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I mean it's a little complicated. I think that's a
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: little complicated. I mean, I like both the Canada's I'm
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm from Clober.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Again more than I.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Know any Globishar's decision to run for governor probably solved
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: a huge what would have been a huge potential, you know,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: for for for your side of the aisle. It was
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: turned in and you know, look, there's you know, there's
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: another there's another version of events where Clober Shark comes
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: in and she gets strayed like Michael Bennett right by
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: by the insiders. But that wasn't the case. And I
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: think part of it was the fear that Walls was
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: going to bring down the whole party, right, And it
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: is interesting to me when there's fear of losing, voters
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: immediately head to the center left when they think it's
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: a free vote, those same primary voters are more likely
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to scratch.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so let me be optimistic here, Okay, Like, just
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: let's put Michigan aside. I guess to me, and I said,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: those public guys of this to the New York Times
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: after DSA one, and you have these DSA candidates win
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: in New York. From my perspective, like lefty candidates winning
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: in blue cities. Like maybe that's a headache for leadership
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: or something or the other, but like, actually, it's not
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: like the worst saying in the world.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, and we there.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Are some pretty left candidates I'm the Democratic Party in
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: some of these places, but they are they farther to
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: the left than some of the kind of proto fascists
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: we see on the far right winning in these like
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: these very very very very red business.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know someone else good design.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: I think you could still be a healthy party and
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: have lefty candidates win in blue cities as long as
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: you are willing to give space to people who have
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: the ability to attract independence and Republicans in swing states.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: And that this feels like the gap right, That feels
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: like the gap that the last that it looks to
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: me that at least the DSA and those that are
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: more a little more DSA adjacent have this sort of
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: I remember Jim dement on the right saying I prefer
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: a Senate of thirty Jim dementz than Republican control with
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: like rhinos right. And you're like, okay, well, if you
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: pursue that, Jim DeMint, you're going to be in the
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: forever minority. Congratulations.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Well, the thing I'd say to democrats in this space,
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: and I will say this, I said this to everybody.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: If you believe that Donald Trump is an existential threat
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: to democracy, to our basic rights, that he is a
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: person who is freeing up like a domestic police force
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: to abuse immigrants, then you know you don't have the
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: luxury of like your perfect be the enemy of the
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: good like you know, I guess that's my And I
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: think this is a question for kind of normy liberals
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: in some of these places, which is it is absolutely
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: the case that they have lost faith in an establishment
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: being able to produce winners when it hasn't.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: There have been pretty big victories.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Why why do you think what could be a STEP's
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: let's do this. We talked about what the establishment could
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: have done pre twenty four. That's one are in the bridge,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: you know I can.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: But I say, like, look, you make your own evaluation
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: about America today.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Man, do you think of the big problem is that
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: there's to.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Me that that's the question is in twenty five and
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: and sort of post twenty four. I think the fairest
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: critique of the democratic establishment is that there doesn't appear
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: to be any self reflection. Why is it that the
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: same people are in charge of the party, right, Chuck Schumer,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: A King, Jeffreys, you know, Nancy Pelosi in some ways
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: is still sort of right, the grand the grand dam
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit as well that there wasn't And it
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: goes back to the close election problem. Right, but well
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: the election was closed, and you know, it's still a
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: very narrow center, and it's still a very.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Narrow house and all this, so the thing there.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Is, and yet the establishment didn't there you know, electing
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: a new DNC chair wasn't the repudiation that I think
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Democratic primary voters were looking for with the establishment. Right,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: if Chuck Schumer had said this is on me, I'm
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: taking the fall here, it's time to move on. Do
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: you think that takes wind out of the sales of
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the left alone?
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that at least, like, with all
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: due respect, doesn't make a whole out of sense in
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: the following way.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: The real the real problem for.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, like I don't know why, I
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: really don't want to re litigate any of this, But.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: The problem was not.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: It's we should It would be great if there was
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: an autopsy to fully understand and have accurate data as
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: to what the problem is. But if you think the
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: problem was that the singular problem for the singular problem
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four is that Joe Biden was too
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: old and should not have run again, then it is
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: the establishment that did.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Ultimately push him out.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: They've not pushed him out. No, no, let me I'm
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: saying the opposite. They pushed him out. And the real
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: problem for taking out your anger at Chuck Schumer is
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: that Kamala Harris lost four swing states that the Democratic
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: Senate get a one in So say what you will
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: about your Schumer. Maybe he acted too late or whatever,
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: but he he was definitely part of a group of
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: people trying to push the president to not stay in
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: the race, and that might have meant meant the difference
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: between a Senate of forty three and a Senate of
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: forty seven Democrats. And just to say to everybody, we
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: would not be talking about the possibility of a Democrat
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: accident twenty twenty things or maybe twenty eight or even
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: twenty thirty two. Maybe I don't say for those candidates.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Winning fair I get I'm not even going to say
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: that life's not always fair. But when you choose to
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: be the leader of the party and you're the senior leader,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: now you're the guy that's now been there, generation.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Give it. The failure was the failure? Really, I don't know.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: It's symbolic. I know you can say it's not fair,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: it's like, but the fact is, I think that was
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: one of those like you know, sometimes you have to
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: fire the manager or the coach of a team because
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: the fan base is just not going to buy the tickets,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: right or the donor base isn't going to give the money,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: so you got to do something to change things. And
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I just it is it is a road not taken.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: There was no actual there was nobody held accountable in
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: twenty five for what happened in twenty two. But that's
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: I think that's what the left argument is.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but really there, I actually don't think that's where
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: the left argument is. I think that the legitimate criticism
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: is that.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Bank.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I think the I think the debate here, I'll just
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: leave it at this, I guess is the debate here
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: is about what the what the president did, not what
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: like senate leadership.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Did Let's Democrats win the House in the Senate, Well,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: how should they spend their twenty twenty.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: Seven They should absolutely spend their time in twenty twenty
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: seven focused on how they can make life better for
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: people who are struggling to make ends meet.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I would like even.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: If that means passing a bill that they get Donald Trump.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: To sign, I think that means if they win the
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: House and Senate, I think that they should put up
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: bills that lower healthcare costs. I mean, and cap has
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: ideas and all of these healthcare costs, energy costs, utilities costs.
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: They should end food tariffs immediately. They should pass bills
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: that you can explain housing costs. You pass bills where
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: you can explain to people this legislation will save you
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: eight hundred dollars a year, save you seven hundred dollars
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: a year. Pass bills I mean, and just you know
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: the history as well as I do. In two thousand
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: and seven. In two thousand and eight, Democrats put up
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: a lot of bills between the House and Senate that
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: Bush vetoed. It did create a lot of momentum the
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: twenty and the presidential primary. People could imagine he's a
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: Democratic president would just pass these bills immediately that actually
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: did happen. Barack Obama got elected. He passed like six
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: bills quickly. He was still at a gigantic agenda on
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: top of it. But to me, and there's a lot
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: of things that people need to do. They definitely need
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: to investigate the massive corruption here. They need to pass
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: I would pass like just as a standalone an anti
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: Jerrman like a national prohibition on gerrymandering across states.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things we need to pass. But
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I would say, if you want to.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: Build that coalition that could allow us to have a
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: big majority, and really, at the end of the day,
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: like have a country that we don't feel like to
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: imagine a country where we are not at each other's strokes. You,
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: we need to have a politics that is attracting a
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: big majority, and that means a multi racial coalition on
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: the Democratic side that has college educated voters. And just
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: imagine if we got forty four percent of white college
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: voters like Barack Obama did in twenty twelve, that is
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: a super mature, almost near supermajority in the country.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: So for me, I would ask my.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: Very my wonderful liberal friends and college educated friends and
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: the Democratic Party to stretch yourself to imagine the people
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: struggling the most and do what we can to pass
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: legislation for them, because.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, that is what the Democratic Party is supposed to
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: be about.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: It is about help for the underdog, not the people
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: who are doing the best, people who are struggling to meet.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: You know, there's going to be some that say, no,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: it's about getting Trump and you gotta hold Trump accountable. Yeah,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: maybe do.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: That, But I'm also like, you have my own thing
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: here is is like can we just have a conversation
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: amongst adults, Like the Supreme Court is eliminated any like
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: criminal activity, there's not sixty seven votes in the Senate
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: like at some point like we're responsible for us Okay,
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I just feel like like we
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: should acknowledge reality. Republican Party is like I think, is
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: there a Publican party that is like are we going
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: to get him out of office? Then you're just making
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: a choice of what you care about.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Where are you on this issue of fear? What do
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: you make Let me put it this way, what do
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: you make of the fact that so few elected Republicans
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: signed on to what Trump did last Thursday night? That
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: give you comfort.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think we I think two things are true. One,
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: you're seeing more Republicans crack or move away from Trump.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: Then then in the last you know, in the first
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: year and a half. On the other hand, I mean,
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: it's also true that they are tolerating which should be intolerable,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: exactly like it is like when I try to be optimistic,
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: I tell people, well, you know, they are breaking away.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: They do understand, of course you want to be cynegal.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: It's after a lot of them gone through their primaries
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: and it's a little bit of a free vote for
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: a lot of them.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: But it is it is true that, you know.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think, if you want to be optimistic
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: about America, we are not Worbon's, Ourbon's Hungary or Russia's Like,
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: people don't agree.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: We don't have this system, and I think we've all learned.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe Trump would have if we had, If our system
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: was so weak that he could have created that, he'd
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: have done it already. Yeah, And our system is is
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: durable and to withstand it.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: The biggest difference between those places and here is like
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: the truth about Orbon's Hungary is that Worbon was popular
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: for like thirteen or fourteen of the sixteen year receives
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: true power.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: And Trump is unpopular.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: He's actually never been popular.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: He's never been popular, and he's just last sun right,
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: less unpopular than the other person.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: And actually the thing, yeah, I don't want to be
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: like I'm not like America is like Nirvana at the moment.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: But the the fact is he chose to take the
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: country into he gambled to take the country into a
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: war with Iran. He is losing that war, and the
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: country thinks it was a terrible idea. And he has
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: made a series of bad choices and that is why
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: he is losing support.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: And not only that, you know, yeah, how you know
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: he knows he's made a series of bad choices because
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: even his most conspiratorial self hasn't been able to find
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: a left wing boogeyman on this one. Like you and
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: I both know, if he could blame somebody else for this,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: he would be and he could blame that Yahoo, and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: he's chosen not to so far. I bet you started it.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: And then he said.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: It's coming and I'm going to be fascinated to see
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: how some handle that. When at some point Trump's just
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: gonna say, well, it's all his fault. He's not there
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: yet because right now then it admits he takes orders
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: from somebody else, right like his that's the but I
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: think we both know he can't stand taking blame on anything.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: Well, the whole psychological problem for Trump, and this is
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: why my whole theory of what's happening with this election's
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: craziness that he's doing is and like a lot of
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: people disagree with him, but it is my theory that
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: he can't lose, Like the basic social contract with his
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: magabase is that he is always a winner. So when
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: he gets this massive hopefully massive repudiation I remember, might
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: not happen depending on what the Democratic Party does, but
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: if the Democratic Party is rational, should be able to
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: get like muster a big repudiation Trump and I think
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: he's setting the groundwork to blame the Congress for not
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: passing the Save Act, even though passing the Save Act
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: would not really solve any problem in America.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: And the irony of that is, if it actually was
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: put into law, it probably would favor the left just
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: because they would follow every crawl unbroken glass to vote
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: in a way that I don't know, Yes.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: And also the people that are hurts the most are
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: like women in rural places who don't take their husband's
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: name and don't have a who did take.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Or who did take their husband's name?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I can't find it, don't have a passport.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: Let me get you out of here on this. What's
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: your favorite center race? Nobody talks about, you know, the
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: ones that are not in the top tier that you're like, man,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: I can't I that's my favorite race, or it doesn't
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: have to be a center race. Maybe it's a GOV race,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: but like a race, it's too under it's very under
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: the radar for a variety of reasons. And you're like,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: it's I can't, you can't help but check out.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: Think that people are so burned on Florida that they
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: that they can't imagine.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: And I think Florida is like I'm out.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: On Florida racist but good luck, yeah, I know.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: It's like David Jelly's is a as a person who
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: very much cross pressures Republicans.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: And it ways interesting. I think I think it's very
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: I think he's got one very hard problem. He voted
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: to defund playing Paranhode in twenty eighteen. Ear it didn't happen.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: That's the problem.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: I get what I mean, like he's made that a
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: what idiot A lot of issues that You're right, it
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: puts cross pressures, but I think it puts pressures on
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of folks.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but Alex Benman, I mean that's a big question.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: She's not really well known. I like that those I
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: find that an interesting place. Uh you know this, I
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: mean this is not a like, this is not a
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: this is not a you know, unknown example. But I think,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: you know, I've met Josh Sure recently. I think he's
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: really impressive.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: My pet race is Amy Acton.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: I think that's going to be the uh the uh.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Carrying the Yeah.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: I think if she wins that that's going to be
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: considered the surprise of the night.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Her being close won't be a surprise anymore. Her winning,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: which would be a surprise, And because Ramaswami is a
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: known quantity and people are like, wow, that.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Guy will yeah, yeah, no, that's a big one. I agree.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: I would go with yours of her mind.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe we'll see I was I was the wave state.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: If it's a wave Iowa happens. If it's not a wave,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: probably doesn't happen, right, Like it's yea for me, it's
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: the it's the it's the fifty yard line, right and
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: you cross or the baw line, however you want to
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: call it.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: You know, you've had twelve years or some like until
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: years of Republican rule in.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: That stage, and there is in my head I was
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: still wants to do this, still wants to win, chilled viper.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not working out so great for them. Like,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: you know, it's hard to be a farmer in Iowa today.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Well there's that Trump both loves Iowa and punishes his
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: voters there more than any other state.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: Everywhere.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: It's you know, Kansas and Iowa his own hit. The
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: people paying the price for his policies are all his voters.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: It's fascinating.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So he saying to you, all right
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: My friend, great to be with you.