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Ep 9: The Intersection of Psychology and Film · Wellness in Today's World

• 0:05
  Welcome to Wellness in Today's World with Dr.
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  Debra Kawahara, a space where we discuss the latest insights in psychology, wellness, and everything in between.
• 0:16
  Hello, I'm Debra Kawahara.
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  Thank you for joining us today.
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  Have you ever watched a movie and wondered, "What would a therapist think about this movie?" Well, today, psychology meets cinema in the most compelling way.
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  Our guest is Dr.
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  Danny Wedding, an award-winning clinical psychologist, professor, and author, whose passion for film is matched only by his deep expertise in mental health.
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  He's the mind behind the critically acclaimed book, "Movies and Mental Illness," now in its fifth edition.
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  A groundbreaking book
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  that uses iconic films to illuminate the complexity of mental disorder and psychopathology.
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  Welcome, Dr.
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  Wedding.
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  I'm so pleased to have you here today.
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  Thank you Debra, I'm pleased to be here.
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  It's nice to see an old friend and get to talk to her a bit.
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  Yeah.
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  So let's kind of start off with what prompted you to write this book, "Movies and Mental Illness"?
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  What sparked kind of your curiosity and genesis of the book?
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  You know, I'm neurotic enough that I can't just do things like watch a movie for fun.
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  I have to feel like I'm accomplishing something.
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  So I got in the habit of taking notes when I'd see a film that I liked, especially one that was psychologically relevant.
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  And those notes kept getting thicker and thicker.
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  The pile got larger and larger.
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  And I eventually turned those notes into a couple of journal articles.
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  And then the journal articles eventually became a book,
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  and several other books, and it's a nice thing to do in retirement, to devote yourself to films.
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  It's a nice way to combine being retired and keeping your hand in as a psychologist.
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  I try to watch every psychologically relevant film that comes out, and that's almost a full-time job.
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  Yeah, I mean, I know I've talked to you and kind of seen all your writings.
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  You are definitely a movie aficionado.
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  This is the fifth edition of the book.
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  How has the book evolved over time, especially with this fifth edition in 2024?
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  Okay, well, this is the fifth and most recent edition and I'm really pleased and proud of the book.
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  It's got over 500 pages.
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  I've used the book as a textbook in courses in abnormal psychology and psychopathology.
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  And as Debra knows, I used to be the associate dean for international programs at the California School of Professional Psychology.
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  And I used film clips in my classes often and
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  discovered that my students loved the film clips that I pulled from movies that seemed relevant to me, that seemed interesting, engaging.
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  And I discovered that my students loved it.
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  I taught abnormal psychology and psychopathology in Hong Kong, in our program there, and in Mexico City.
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  And the students gave me lots of feedback about films that I should see.
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  And those films have just grown into uh this book.
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  And as I continued to teach and use films in teaching, I continued to write and the book continued to grow.
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  And now the book's big enough that I'm gonna have to cut it back and eliminate a lot of text, because 500 pages is about the maximum that you can include in a textbook.
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  I know this latest edition has about 1,500 films that you've reviewed and rated in this latest edition.
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  How do you decide which movies to include?
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  You know, it's a tough decision, and I try to look for films that will help educate students about mental illness or addictions or developmental disabilities.
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  Almost every film that we talk about is relevant in some way to psychopathology.
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  I don't watch films
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  just for the sake of entertainment; I try to watch films that I can learn from and my students can learn from.
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  You might be interested in knowing that in the first edition, we had to pay Jack Nicholson $300 to use his image from "As Good As It Gets" for the cover of the first edition.
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  And then with the second edition, when it came out, we paid uh Russell Crowe $1,000
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  to use his image from "A Beautiful Mind." And then for the third edition that came out, we couldn't afford to pay Jack Nicholson or Russell Crowe anymore.
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  So we just got a depressed teenager to lean over and let us take a silhouette.
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  So it's been a lot of fun, but I've got colleagues all over the country who will drop me a note when they see a film that is relevant
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  to this book.
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  I really cherish that and appreciate it when it happens.
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  And so my viewing is guided by my friends and colleagues who recommend particular films.
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  I've had lots of colleagues in Division 46 from APA, which is Media Psychology and Technology, and from Division 10, which is Art, Aesthetics and Creativity.
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  My friends in those divisions frequently recommend films that I should see.
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  Do you think that only students in psychology or related mental health disciplines...
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  that you need to be a student or instructor in order to use your book?
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  Or can the book be used by someone that just is interested in mental illness and psychopathology?
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  You know, I started off writing a textbook for my students and the first two editions focused on pedagogy and using films to learn about mental illness.
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  But we quickly discovered that lots of people buying the book were not teachers or professors or even students; they were people who just loved cinema.
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  And that turned out to actually be the larger audience.
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  So starting with the third edition, we shifted our focus and we kept
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  all of the pedagogy, the critical thinking questions, and the structured mental status exams, and the patient interviews, all of that has been retained, but it's been stripped
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  from the book and is now on a website.
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  So when you buy the book, you get access to the website, and then it provides a lot of materials that students can use.
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  For example, they can see a mental status exam
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  of a character from "Fatal Attraction," for example, and that will maybe help them learn about the disorder, about borderline personality.
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  So all of the teaching material is still there; it's just not in the book, per se.
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  And so the book is now targeted at the general reader who has an interest in mental illness and an interest in films and wants to see those two interests come together.
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  So I know when I was able to preview the book and look through it and things, I know when I was looking at the table of contents, it's actually structured with the different mental
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  disorders.
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  And then you kind of choose the movies that would best illustrate them.
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  you know, As a therapist, as a psychologist, I know sometimes when I see films, you know, it's like, "Oh my gosh, that portrayal is not exactly in line with how therapists truly
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  work or how they work ethically.
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  You know, what bounds, boundaries do we have?" And so I was wanting to ask you, how do you balance cinematic quality with
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  psychological accuracy?
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  It's a real challenge for us.
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  And there are a lot of bad movies out there.
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  And there are a lot of movies that suggest, for example, that people with mental illness are uh likely to be violent and dangerous.
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  And yet we know, we have good evidence to show that a person with mental illness is far more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator of violence.
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  And people with mental illness do sometimes commit crimes and do terrible things.
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  But the vast majority do not.
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  So we try to educate the public and we talk about films that present a misleading portrayal of what mental illness is or what psychotherapy is or what mental health
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  professionals do.
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  And we talk about that in the book.
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  And so we include great films that are highly useful for pedagogical purposes.
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  And we also discuss films that aren't that accurate or aren't that uh relevant
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  or aren't that meaningful, but still need to be discussed because they present one of these false messages that we find so often in cinema.
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  Can you give an example to our listeners about either a good portrayal or one that just stands out because it's really...
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  does some kind of ethical violation or something that we would consider outside the bounds of what a therapist would be doing in therapy?
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  One example that comes immediately to mind is M.
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  Night Shyamalan's movie, "Split." And it's about a man with a dissociative identity disorder, what we used to call multiple personality disorder.
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  You see him committing a number of crimes, kidnapping and murder.
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  And he has, I think, 27 alters.
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  In some ways, the film is a good springboard for a discussion of dissociative identity disorder.
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  But there are things that simply don't hold up.
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  For example, one of the alters is diabetic.
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  The rest aren't.
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  Only one is.
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  And you see in the film the diabetic alter injecting insulin.
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  And the fact is that this would have probably killed him and all of the other alters as well.
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  He would have gone into a hypoglycemic shock and possibly died.
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  And so these are the kind of things that I want my students to bring up and discuss.
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  So, the most prevalent and recurring theme is that people with mental illness are dangerous.
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  There are other myths that are out there as well, but there are just
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  literally thousands of films, like "Nightmare on Elm Street," that involve characters who have a history of uh mental illness.
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  Freddie Krueger in "Nightmare on Elm Street" was born after his mother, who was a nun, was put in a psychiatric hospital and raped by a thousand people, ostensibly, and...
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  a thousand patients.
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  One person wrote on a website that "Nightmare on Elm Street" is an example of psychopathology magnified and that uh Freddy Krueger was the product of a thousand mad men
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  sperm getting all mixed together.
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  And this is somebody who knows nothing about mental illness and even less about reproductive biology.
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  So there are a lot of bad movies out there.
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  And "Nightmare on Elm Street" is just one example.
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  So I hear that the book is also able to maybe correct some of the misinformation about mental illness, about psychopathology, and individuals who are living with these disorders
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  and illnesses.
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  I think it does that.
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  And I think that if anybody reads the book, they'll come away and be a much more sophisticated viewer and much more sophisticated in their understanding of mental illness.
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  I know you have reviewed thousands upon thousands of films because you've been doing this for a long time.
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  And I know when you've talked about this, you're watching like three or four movies a week.
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  And so you've been doing this a long time, but I'm going to have you narrow it down to, what are
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  your top three films of all time that you believe portray mental illness the best?
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  What would you say that would be?
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  For a film aficionado, that's really hard, you know, picking your top three.
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  And there are so many good films out there, but I've thought about this and it's a question I'm asked often, actually.
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  And my all time favorite film of all time would be "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." Jack Nicholson, it's a classic film.
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  One of the joys of working in this area...
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  And I've been able to lecture around the world.
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  And I've done Fulbrights in South Korea and in Thailand.
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  And it was a joy for me to discover that many of my students had seen the films that I loved and were familiar with US films.
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  That's a major export for us.
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  And it's also a joy for me to introduce my students to films that maybe they haven't seen, but are classic.
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  And so "Cuckoo's Nest" is one of those.
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  I've had
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  over 100 students tell me how much they've enjoyed that film and they just didn't know about it because it's been around since 1975.
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  So it's 50 years old.
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  It is available on streaming services and they always enjoy it and they're always grateful.
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  So I love seeing Jack Nicholson play Randall P.
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  McMurphy in that movie.
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  And it is interesting because we know that,
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  that Randall P.
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  McMurphy is not mentally ill.
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  He doesn't belong in the psychiatric hospital.
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  He was arrested for having sex with a 15-year-old girl.
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  So it's an opportunity for my students to discuss how the mental health system and the criminal justice system come together and how sometimes people with mental health problems
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  wind up in the criminal justice system.
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  So, "Cuckoo's Nest" would certainly be one.
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  I had a professor in graduate school who told me that frequently on a college campus, the only thing that separates frank mental illness from harmless eccentricity is tenure.
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  And I think there's some truth to that.
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  So the film helps make that point.
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  Another movie that I loved is "Shine," which came out in 1996.
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  And it's a historically accurate film about David Helfgott, who was a very gifted pianist and a wonderful musician.
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  And the film has its flaws.
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  It implies that he has a schizophrenogenic father and that his mental illness resulted from mistreatment by his father, who was opposed to many of the decisions that he made in
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  life, like going to Juilliard.
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  But...
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  It's a great movie and a fairly accurate depiction of what mental illness looks like.
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  And then a more recent film that I loved and thought was terribly accurate and right on point was "The Father" with Anthony Hopkins and Olivia Colman.
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  And it is a wonderful introduction to Alzheimer's disease or dementia in general
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  and what it looks like.
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  There are a lot of good films that deal with dementia.
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  And uh if you have a family member who is going through that, or you're trying to cope with that, one way to better understand what happens with dementia is to watch movies
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  about it.
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  And so "The Father" is one of the best.
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  I'm a big fan of Anthony Hopkins.
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  He got his second Oscar for this movie.
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  The first was for "Silence of the Lambs," and he's just a superb actor.
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  And interestingly, Hopkins has been diagnosed in the past as having Asperger's syndrome.
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  He's got a remarkable ability to master his lines so he can read a script one time and hang on to all of the lines, which I think is remarkable.
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  So those are three examples of films that I think are wonderful illustrations and wonderful teaching films.
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  Well, now I'm going to actually ask you, because we've got you as the movie aficionado, what are maybe some films that you found that personally you really liked, but just didn't
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  quite meet the criteria for the book?
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  Well, I often have to reluctantly leave out movies that I love because they just don't say much about mental illness.
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  We still treat this as a textbook and we still want to have students read it and we still want them to learn from it.
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  So sometimes I'll mention films in passing, maybe just in a paragraph or two that I have loved and want my students to see
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  but aren't necessarily directly relevant to psychopathology.
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  "Antonio's Line," an old film, about 30 years old now, and "Pelle the Conqueror," an even older film, are two movies that I just love and cherish and watch repeatedly.
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  A more recent film like that is "Oppenheimer." And maybe you've seen it, Debra.
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  It's a great movie.
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  And uh I think it's a
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  a fascinating historical film.
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  And Robert Oppenheimer was an amazing character who struggled with mental health issues throughout his life.
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  And when he was at Cambridge, he was depressed.
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  He once put cyanide into an apple and left it for his professor to eat and then later realized that that was a mistake.
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  And so he went back and recovered the apple before anybody ate it.
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  But he really was depressed as a graduate student.
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  And then actually as an adult at one time, he was diagnosed with dementia praecox, which is an older term for schizophrenia.
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  And yet here's somebody who's just brilliant.
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  In many ways it's like "A Beautiful Mind" because it reminds us that even people who are geniuses, who are brilliant, who have amazing minds, they sometimes have to deal with
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  mental health issues.
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  And so Oppenheimer was an example of that.
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  Interestingly, Robert Oppenheimer actually gave a talk at an APA convention some years ago.
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  And it was just fascinating to have a physicist come lecture to psychologists.
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  And he pointed out that physics was an old science and psychology was a new science.
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  And we had a long way to go.
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  Just remarkable, right?
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  That, what I think it shows is that mental illness, mental disorders, psychopathology doesn't discriminate, right?
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  Yeah.
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  you can be brilliant.
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  uh And in fact, being brilliant can sometimes make life more difficult.
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  One poet wrote, "Genius is to madness near allied, and thin partitions do their bounds divide."
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  Yeah.
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  I actually think that is an important thing to talk about because I think people have a certain stereotype, you know, about who, what people look like with mental illness or who
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  have certain mental disorders.
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  And I think we know as therapists, as clinical psychologists, that
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  people across the board have them and there's no particular way that they look, that they live, you know.
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  I've spent my life teaching in medical schools.
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  Many of my patients were physicians and nurses who were colleagues, but they were dealing with the challenges that life presents and I've enjoyed working with those groups.
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  I've by and large had high-functioning patients throughout my career.
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  But they certainly still are dealing with mental illness, mental disorders, psychopathology, but they're functioning really highly in these professional roles.
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  Sometimes life is challenging and demanding.
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  I mean, going through a divorce is gonna be depressing for anybody, no matter how psychologically sound you are.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, you just said how Oppenheimer as a graduate student was depressed.
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  We know how strenuous and rigorous graduate school is; it's not surprising that many graduate students may be depressed, may be anxious, may be having to deal with adjustment
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  disorders because of the different things that graduate school requires of you.
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  I just want to say it isn't just a certain type of person that is going to be dealing with these types of pathologies or illnesses.
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  And our students have deal with things like student loans and student debt.
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  And that's a tremendous burden.
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  But we also know, I guess I want to put this caveat, that it is our responsibility to know when is it getting in the way for us to give competent professional services.
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  So it would never be compromising the services that someone is receiving.
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  Yeah, a lot of graduate programs in psychology require psychotherapy for their students going through the program.
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  And that's one of the reasons you do that.
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  You want to be sensitive to the fact that your own emotional needs and problems sometimes get in the way of being an effective therapist.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And I think that is one of the things that I think for your book to point out good portrayals and bad portrayals.
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  ah Because I think oftentimes that is not...
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  by you being able to do that, you're clearly saying this is okay.
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  This is what it should look like and what it shouldn't look like.
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  So important in terms of the education of the public.
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  You know, Debra, I've gotten a lot of ideas from editing PsycCRITIQUES for 14 years.
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  A lot of recommendations for films came out of that process.
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  And every week we would publish 10 reviews, 10 book reviews.
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  But I brought back the practice of reviewing films.
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  And E.G.
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  Boring was a Harvard psychologist who started the journal "Contemporary Psychology:
• 22:53
  the Journal of Book and Film Reviews," back in the 1930s.
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  So it's been around for a long time.
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  PsycCRITIQUES was the online version of that.
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  Boring had movie reviews in the very first issues of the journal "Contemporary Psychology." And when I took over as editor of PsycCRITIQUES from Bob Sternberg, I brought
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  back film reviews.
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  And so we would do about 50 reviews a year.
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  And oftentimes I draw on those in looking for material for the book.
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  So it was like continuing this type of work in PsycCRITIQUES, and then now you compiled it in these five editions of the book.
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  uh
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  we don't publish the reviews, but oftentimes I will select quotes or even an entire paragraph from a review in PsycCRITIQUES and incorporate that into the book.
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  As, you know, I'm thinking about the book and hopefully our listeners consider the book, what would you want readers to walk away with after engaging with "Movies and Mental
• 23:59
  Illness"?
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  Well, I hope that the students who read the book would walk away much more sophisticated about psychopathology.
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  That was the initial intent of the book and why it was written in the first place.
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  I think more contemporary readers who aren't necessarily mental health professionals may walk away with a compendium of films that they want to see.
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  And we have a very large appendix in the book;
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  we rate films according to a Psi system and we have the Psi symbol for psychology and we rate films using one to five Psis, one to five stars.
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  And so any film that has a rating of four or five is probably worth a person's time to see.
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  It has literary and film excellence
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  but it is also a film that will help educate you about mental illness.
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  A lot of people just buy the book to get those recommendations.
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  They like the four and five Psi reviews.
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  And so any film that gets five Psis is one that my co-authors and I have agreed on is well worth seeing for just anybody.
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  So it's a way to guide your decisions about what to view next.
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  Have you noticed any surprising uses of the book outside of kind of traditional academic settings?
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  Whenever I travel, uh I try to visit libraries and I always check to see if my books are in the library.
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  And oftentimes, "Movies and Mental Illness" is there.
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  So I know it's being pretty widely used and it's been successful.
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  Oftentimes, people do creative things with movies.
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  I have a new friend, Ted Perkins, and Ted...
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  just published this book.
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  And he is somebody who was in the movie industry and he used films as a way to treat himself, actually.
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  He dealt with his own substance use disorder by watching lots and lots of movies; movies that deal with substance use disorders and alcoholism
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  like "The Lost Weekend" that are sometimes classic films about alcoholism.
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  He wrote his book "Addicted in Film: Movies We Love About the Habits We Hate." He has developed a recovery movie meetup system where
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  people who are dealing with substance use get together and watch films, sometimes in a group, and then discuss it afterwards, and they use films as a vehicle to support
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  sobriety.
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  So I think it's really interesting, and it is motivating.
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  And if you're watching a movie about alcoholism or drug abuse every week with a small group of friends, it's not AA, but it's a little bit like AA.
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  uh
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  And it seems to have been effective and helped a lot of people.
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  So I'm hoping to continue to work with Ted in the future.
• 27:00
  Yeah, it sounds like a powerful intervention with the media, medium of film or movies.
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  You know, Ted's got some data suggesting that it really is an effective approach, and it certainly worked for him.
• 27:15
  Wonderful.
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  Okay, so to end, what I'd like to just ask you is kind of what's next?
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  What, you know, sneak peek into what's kind of percolating in your mind.
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  You know, I've always wanted to be a film reviewer, actually, a food critic or a film reviewer.
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  And life didn't take me in that direction.
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  But I am reviewing films for Hogrefe, who publishes the book, "Movies and Mental Illness." It has spun off into other books.
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  One is uh "Positive Psychology at the Movies." This was an early edition.
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  uh More recently,
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  we just came out a couple of months ago with this book with my good friends Lillian Comas-Díaz and Rehman Abdulrehman.
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  It looks at the way that movies can be used to teach people about culture and multiculturalism and social justice and so forth.
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  So that's one direction.
• 28:13
  I'll probably continue to write about films.
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  Russell Crowe is coming out with a new movie called "Nuremberg" that should be out probably in November and I will critique that and so I'm writing reviews.
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  And if you Google "A Clinical Psychologist Goes to the Movies," you will pull these film reviews up.
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  And recently I reviewed "[The] Substance." I know you've had a chance to look at that review.
• 28:40
  "The Substance," which I thought was a remarkable movie.
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  And so I will continue this, and about every three months I'll have a new review that's published.
• 28:51
  We're going to be working on the sixth edition of this book.
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  And one of the things about having a book about movies is new movies come out and you have to keep updating the book.
• 29:01
  So we're up to well over 500 pages and I've just got to cut it back and make it a little bit smaller.
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  So I'll continue to talk about the
• 29:11
  1500 films we've discussed already, but I'll add new films to the collection in the new edition.
• 29:17
  And I'm getting old enough now, I'm starting to look for a literary heir to take over this project after I'm dead.
• 29:25
  out there who loves films as much as Danny does, be in contact with him.
• 29:26
  it's a few years away.
• 29:32
  I know that you sound like you take suggestions or if people kind of see a film and said, hey, this would be great for other people to know about and for you to kind of give that
• 29:46
  mental health perspective on it.
• 29:49
  How could they reach you?
• 29:50
  You know, I've got a robust online presence, so it's not hard to get information about how to get a hold of me.
• 29:57
  And the people can Google my name and relevant information pops up, or they can just drop me a note and it's first name dot last name, danny.wedding@gmail.com.
• 30:07
  So I'm easy to find.
• 30:09
  And many of the films that I write about, many of the recommendations come from my friends and colleagues.
• 30:14
  And so I welcome people dropping me notes about movies.
• 30:17
  And...
• 30:18
  Something that I found especially useful is that sometimes readers will disagree with the points that I make and say, you know, that could have been schizophrenia, but it looks
• 30:29
  more like bipolar disorder to me.
• 30:31
  And so I spend a lot of time teaching students about differential diagnosis and films are a wonderful way to do that.
• 30:39
  And so some of my best classes have been where I have half the class who believes one thing and the other half believes another,
• 30:45
  and they go at each other and try to make the case for their position.
• 30:49
  I'll occasionally have students debate diagnoses in films and if everybody's seen the film, the whole class can join in.
• 30:57
  This type of thing has been a great joy and I would welcome recommendations for films from anybody uh who drops me a note.
• 31:06
  I'm always grateful when that happens.
• 31:08
  So, Danny, you know, there are now different ways in which people can watch, you know, series.
• 31:16
  You know, we have streaming now.
• 31:18
  Are you looking at those types of things?
• 31:21
  Like, you know, I'm thinking about on Netflix or Apple or...
• 31:27
  any of those types of things?
• 31:29
  Oh, Very much.
• 31:30
  We deliberately go out of our way to pick films to discuss in the book that are accessible.
• 31:35
  Sometimes you might have to have a subscription to get to a film, but we look for films that are available online.
• 31:43
  And there are tens of thousands of films available through Netflix or Prime Video.
• 31:50
  And I subscribe to just about every service there is.
• 31:54
  One of the nice things about being an author who writes about movies is that I write all these subscriptions off my taxes every year.
• 32:03
  And other people have to pay for it.
• 32:04
  But so far, the IRS hasn't caught up with me.
• 32:06
  And when they do, I will meet with them and show them this book and say, this is a legitimate business expense.
• 32:14
  Are you looking at any TV series like I'm thinking "Shrinking" or "In Treatment" or any of those types of things?
• 32:23
  You know, I love those.
• 32:25
  Early on, I had to make a decision about what to focus on.
• 32:29
  There's just so much out there that it's really hard to do everything.
• 32:34
  So I made a very deliberate decision to only focus on movies.
• 32:39
  And I love shows like "Shrinking" and thought it was beautifully done and relevant.
• 32:45
  And there are a couple of...
• 32:47
  of ethical boundaries that are crossed and so forth.
• 32:50
  But my students enjoy talking about that.
• 32:52
  This new book on multiculturalism.
• 32:55
  Initially, it was "Movies and Multiculturalism." And then my friend Rehman watches a lot of miniseries.
• 33:02
  And in particular, he is interested in "Star Wars." And so we have a chapter on "Star Wars" in the book.
• 33:08
  We've expanded it to talk
• 33:10
  about TV.
• 33:11
  I don't watch that much television myself.
• 33:13
  I tend to focus on movies.
• 33:15
  That's my preference.
• 33:16
  But I have co-authors who watch a lot of TV and are well-qualified to write about it.
• 33:21
  And so we see that in the new book.
• 33:24
  The movies book gets larger and larger.
• 33:27
  And so I really can't incorporate television programs there, although sometimes in passing, I will mention "In Treatment" or "Shrinking" or a show like that,
• 33:37
  but only tangentially.
• 33:39
  So you heard it right from the...
• 33:42
  I shouldn't say "horse's mouth," but you heard it from the movie aficionado's mouth that he is focused on movies, but he has co-authors that look at other structures or formats in
• 33:55
  terms of that.
• 33:56
  So I guess Danny, as, you know, as we end,
• 34:00
  any...
• 34:01
  anything that, you know, last thoughts that you would like to leave with our listeners today?
• 34:07
  This book started off with a dream I had about giving a mental status exam to Norman Bates, the protagonist in "Psycho," Alfred Hitchcock's classic film.
• 34:20
  I woke up the next morning, and that was interesting.
• 34:22
  And so I wrote up the mental status exam, and that was the beginning.
• 34:26
  I found it really useful to have my students
• 34:30
  write up fictitious mental status exams on film characters.
• 34:35
  And so they'd do a complete clinical report that I'd critique and sometimes suggest alternative hypotheses and alternative diagnoses and so forth.
• 34:45
  But I found it a tremendously useful pedagogical exercise.
• 34:51
  And you know, I was never that dynamic or great a teacher,
• 34:56
  but I always got these great student evaluations because I brought movies into my classroom and my students absolutely loved it.
• 35:04
  And there's some work involved.
• 35:05
  It takes a bit of time to watch a movie, decide it's worthwhile, to watch it again, to pick out relevant clips, and then to go capture that clip.
• 35:15
  So I find that it really has been helpful as a teacher for me to
• 35:22
  incorporate cinema into my courses.
• 35:24
  And I'm hoping that other uh fellow psychologists can do this and use the book or not use the book, but at least consider using films as a tool for teaching about psychology and in
• 35:38
  particular for teaching about psychopathology.
• 35:40
  Well, thank you for joining us, Danny, today.
• 35:44
  I mean, I just think all the work that you've done over the years and being able to share your knowledge of both cinema as well as psychology and mental health has been so
• 36:00
  valuable.
• 36:01
  And so I just want to thank you for being here today.
• 36:04
  With that I want to say to our listeners, thank you for being with us and remember: Wellness is a journey not a destination and to please take good care and we'll see you the
• 36:17
  next time.
• 36:17
  Terrific.
• 36:18
  Well done, Debra.