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Episode 09 - The Unsolicited Advice You Just Didn't Ask For · Messy Minded Mama

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Messy Minded Mama, a podcast for moms who look managed but might feel a bit messy on the inside.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Kate and I'm Jen, and we are here creating space for real talk about motherhood, mental health, and the invisible load so many women carry.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Messy Minded Mama.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Today is a really special day because yesterday was Jen's birthday.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So happy birthday, Jen! Thank you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, in honor of your birthday, we are announcing something we're really excited about and that you've poured a lot of time and energy into.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we're launching a new merch line, which if you haven't learned yet, we just launched a line.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: But this one is really special, and I'm gonna let Jen talk about it.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it's called the Elevation Collection.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Less words, more mountains, simple elevated designs, but tell us the why.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: This really came from just conversations that Kate and I kept having on repeat, I think, about wanting to be outside, enjoying the nice weather, enjoying hiking, camping, and just really time for ourselves, but also as moms when we get an opportunity to be outside.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So our love for Colorado, our love for the mountains, both being natives here.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And again, really just wanting to represent things that we feel passionate about in this line and that we think will be so relatable to all of you as well.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So simple mountain designs.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um love that it has this connection to who we are and what we're creating a messy-minded mama as well.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're very excited to get it out there.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So starting today, it is live.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It will be live for one week as kind of a special pre-launch with just women's items.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: But on May 1st, the full line will be available, which is women's items, athletic wear, and for the men in our lives, some men's wear.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: But don't worry, those don't say the word mama on them.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: They do not.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't do that to you.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we're very excited and happiest of birthdays.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So today, in terms of podcast content, we are talking about unsolicited advice in motherhood because one, I feel like we're up against impossible standards all the time.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And two, someone always has someone always has something to say about what we do or how we act in motherhood.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I love giving this space today because it's so true.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone around us becomes like this expert, whether they're maybe a parent or not, no matter kind of when they raise kids or not, um, becomes this expert in our lives as we're becoming moms.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think trying to really give this space because sometimes it can hit us so hard when we hear those comments, when we get that unsolicited advice.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it can just shake your confidence as a mom and you start to lose sight of the motherly instinct that we really do have and how we do know our kids best.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we do, we're with them all the time, we're with them every day, right?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like we spend so much time getting to know little things about them that the unsolicited advice just doesn't serve us well at times and can um seep in, I think, a little bit more than we want it to.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about a story for you because I know we talked about this before we hit record, but you have a really yeah uh important story, I think, that really has stuck with you over the years of some unsolicited advice.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely want you to share your story.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you're right.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It has it stuck with me for far too long.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there are times that now I just look and I'm able to laugh about it and say, like, that didn't matter, but it's still comical to think that it even happened.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So rewind back probably two and a half years ago.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Elle was two and a half years old, she is five now, and we were at as a family, Tyler, Jack, L, and I at the airport waiting to go through security line.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know how you have to weave through security before you actually get there.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we're we're walking through and just see this kind of elderly couple, husband and wife, that we kept passing as we were going.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: They kept looking at us, and I heard, you know, I could hear like whispers kind of about us, but I kept thinking in my mind, oh my gosh, they just think oh so cute.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of focusing in on her in particular.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, they she must remind them of someone, and they are just thinking she's so adorable.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So after probably four or five times of kind of weaving past them, this older gentleman looks at us and says, I just need to tell you something.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm preparing for your daughter's adorable.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: That is what we would normally think.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was prepared to hear.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, he said, You should really stop her from sucking her fingers.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to ruin her teeth.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a pediatric dentist.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have a book on this, and starts to dive into this judgment for my two and a half-year-old who was super tired.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember exactly what time of day we're flying, but probably around a nap time or something for her.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she's tired, and that's her comfort.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's sucking her fingers, she has a blanket kind of over her nose.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Elle has done that since she was born.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So she was a very tiny baby.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: She has taken comfort in her fingers.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Jack took comfort in sucking his thumb.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So both of my kids have had this.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But hearing this stranger at the airport in the middle of other people, too, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a story that it wasn't just someone pulling me aside and giving me the sensitive advice.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was this public shame and judgment that I felt like was coming down on me in those moments.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And also in front of my daughter, who a two and a half, whether she took that in or not at the time, like, don't tell her she can't be doing something that we aren't even instructing her not to do at that point in time.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So long story short, taking, you know, took this advice, and it did have me in those moments really step back and say, Am I doing something wrong as a mom?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Should she not be doing this?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I'd already been through it with Jack, and he was still sucking his thumb, to be honest, at that point.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't stop until he went to kindergarten.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it took me having to say, okay, I know my kids well enough.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know why they're doing this.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is break this brings them comfort in the moment.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have opinions about, you know, how to break the cycle and how to stop that.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: My kids had already been to the dentist.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: My own dentist for the kids was not worried about it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I going to take this advice from someone randomly at the airport and let that change my mindset, let that guilt settle in.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I did.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I took it and I sat with it.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I still have had times where not necessarily thinking about that person, but questioning how many other people are thinking that when they see my kids at the ages that they were kind of still doing these behaviors.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is it okay?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is it not?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: What should I do to change it?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the confidence it's set in from that person of you shouldn't be doing this, I think that makes us question ourselves so much more because they are saying it in such a definitive you are doing something wrong kind of way, which for me creates a spiral where I'm questioning every little thing am I doing?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Should I be doing that?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Am I a bad mom?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Am I going to destroy their teeth in that situation?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really does impact, I think, our self-confidence as a parent of we're trying to do the best for our kids, but then other people are bringing opinions in.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, he was allegedly a professional.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Allegedly, allegedly a professional, and that's great.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of medical research and knowledge about so many different things.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the things we even talked yesterday about not falling into just one type of parenting structure.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: But in that case, it's there's benefits and risks to every decision we're making as parents.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: But that shakes your confidence of are you doing the right one?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think it really highlighted for me personally how quickly we can jump to the sense of failure.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the sense of I'm not doing the right thing for my kids.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And again, someone who is a complete stranger for me, in like the two seconds we interacted, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was a very short, abrupt, he told me, I said, okay.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the end of it.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but how quickly that that can make you think, um, am I doing anything right?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it started, like you talk about the spiral.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely started to spiral in that moment of, okay, it's not just this, it's X, Y, and Z, you know, other things as well.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do you normally respond when someone's giving you unsolicited advice about parenthood or decisions you're making for your kids?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I wish I was more blunt of just like, we don't need this, thank you.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: But in those moments, I'm just like, okay, we've been working on it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just give a very light-hearted, you know, thanks, but no thanks in like a very kind way, I believe.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do wish I had in those moments more confidence to say, like, yep, we're good here.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't need to, we don't need your advice.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it takes a lot of practice to do anything like that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have to practice saying things out loud a lot less in when someone's giving me advice that I don't want or feel like I need, more so about agreeing to do things that I don't need to do.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a whole separate topic.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: But just practicing saying, oh, thanks so much for letting me know your opinion.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So and thankfully, I think this is the one if the reason it sticks with me is because it's probably the one big one that I can think about.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's been little things over time.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, I think we all get that, but this is all this is one big story.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that is why I didn't really know how to respond in that moment.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it hadn't really happened in that kind of big public setting for me before.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: For you, I I know you maybe have kind of a different perspective of what this has done or how it's shown up for you.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So curious to hear your perspective as well.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know that I have, I can think of of a couple big times.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and one I think I touched on last week a bit about someone telling me that because I was a working parent, daycare was raising my kid.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I didn't know what to say in that moment.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of just walked away.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, I wish I would have had more gumption, I guess, to say how dare you.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or what I how I choose or what my family needs is is what we're doing.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought that was pretty strong of an opinion to give somebody else about whether they choose to work or not.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of reasons that I like to work.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I personally really like to work.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also financially, we need me to work.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one of them.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: But for when I think about the unsolicited advice, I think more about the micro moments than the big story stuck with me.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was big mad, I won't lie.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it's more of the micro moments that build up for me of the hundred tiny little comments people can make over years.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been a parent for seven years, so I have seven years worth of comments from strangers or even family.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, um, we'll talk about intent and impact later, but I don't know that people intend for these comments to hit us the way that they do, but that is certainly the impact.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think about comments of, oh, you're still doing naps like that, or sleep when the baby sleeps.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is the most unhelpful piece of advice I have ever heard in my life.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because the baby is gonna sleep while I'm driving the car.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stop and sleep.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Then I still have things to do.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or contact naps, their opinions about uh sometimes even sleep patterns, whether some a baby's in the bassinet or their own room or this.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Not every kid fits this perfect mold.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, my kids don't really believe in sleep super often.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: This week Sawyer has slept in her bed four nights in a row.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! And I was super excited.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, things like that.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're still doing naps.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: They should be eating more of this.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or why do you let them get up from the table when they should be sitting and eating their meals?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I could never do daycare.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really long day for them to be at daycare that long.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know that it is, I recognize that it is.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you let your kids do that?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: This little comment.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have you ever tried just that one?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which again, a lot of times is meant to be helpful.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate it when I'm asking for it, or if someone's doing it and it is truly out of just, hey, we tried this, it worked, maybe you want to try it.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the tone really matters when people are saying these.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or the other one that really gets me is the my kid would never the comparison.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great for you and your kid.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how we operate.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think this is where it just builds for me, where on their own, they're not a big deal.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Each little comment doesn't weigh heavily.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's when it's constant or it's the same person over and over that it really just feels overwhelming and again goes to that spiral and that questioning everything.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, there's so many moments that it's it's called unsolicited advice for a reason, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I'm not asking for this.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need your opinions.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to know what you're doing with yours versus what I should be doing with mine and get in this like comparison trap and spiral as well.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to sometimes I just need to talk out loud.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I just need to tell the story of what's going on with me.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean that I'm always uh wanting to get advice on everything.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So stopping that I think can be so hard.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're talking about of these micro moments just adding up and building, what does that do for you when you when you start to add them up and add them up maybe over a week's time or a month's time or whatever that looks like?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do you kind of sort through that for yourself when these micro moments start to become bigger and and feel heavier?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I try to channel my dad a little bit.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: One of his favorite sayings is, I'll check you in that box.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone is giving an opinion that he either a didn't have, okay, if you're listening, Dad, I do listen to the things you say.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where he will say, I'll check you in that box.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: When someone has given him an opinion he didn't ask for, or maybe that he didn't particularly like, um, that is his response.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's said kind of cheekily, like it's not said in a mean way.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, yep, check you in that box.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to think about that of okay, that is just their opinion.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll check them in that box.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: I can continue on.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not great at that, especially right away.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: When I walk away from those comments, I'm like, oh, don't think anything of it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: That middle of the night inner critic that comes in and is loud and rude.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm already questioning myself a lot as a parent because I don't have it figured out.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so that just stacks and stacks and stacks.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: The inner critic, the questioning myself.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's uh sometimes I perceive it as not just advice, but like you said, the judgment of what kind of mom is she that she doesn't make her kids sit at the table for an entire meal or whatever it might be.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it can also make you start second guessing some of the things that you've been completely fine with and have done for years or done before because someone else has expressed an opinion.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it really creates this spiral of self-doubt, maybe even of some shame because someone called you out on something.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to I try to really make a decision about how I proceed with it.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is am I doing, if I'm am I going to change something because I'm trying to people please?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I going to change something because I'm actually trying to align with something that's important or that has worked for us?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I spend a lot of time making lists, sometimes pros and cons, or however you want to, of where does this fall in?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is it I'm gonna change this because someone made a comment and I want to make them feel better because I'm uncomfortable sitting in that, or am I going to just continue what I'm doing because it works for us and I don't actually think something's wrong?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to have time to process that.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not great at responding super tactfully right off the spot sometimes.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know that.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times I just won't respond.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I will maybe shut down a little, I'll take some space, I'll tell someone I need some space.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think that's where that intent versus impact too of that person comes in of what were they intending and then what was the impact to me.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And can I actually can I actually connect with what their intent was a bit?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that can help diffuse it.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if you want to talk about how you process or intent versus impact for you, but yeah, I think well, one thing it brought up for me that I think helps me process a lot is this concept fear versus trust.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when you talk about the people pleasing versus doing something that you feel confident in or that it aligns with your values as a family or whatever the case might be, I lean into fear versus trust all the time.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in in your examples, it's like the fear is that there's gonna be this judgment.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be this outside voice, this outside perspective that um isn't gonna feel good.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And am I gonna continue to be faced with that?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's the fear being really loud, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: This um, and then it becomes this desire to people please to alleviate that fear a little bit.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think when we think about the the other side of it with the trust, it's building trust in ourselves, building trust again in that intuition we have as moms, yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that it is okay for our family, that our kids aren't suffering by anything that we're doing, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: That we are um doing things with good intentions in our minds and then leaning into that trust to offset that fear.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I do that so often and have done that when I go back to my example of this thumb sucking, finger sucking in my kids.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have had to weigh those options of like, okay, what am I fearful of?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where does the trust come from?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: For me, again, that came from my kids' dentist telling me their teeth aren't moving, everything is looking fine, let's just work on getting them to stop.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Trust has been built over time with Jack naturally phasing out of it on his own and me trusting that Elle would do the same.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think being able to lean into that has really helped me personally.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but would love to hear you go into a little bit more detail um about intent and impact as well.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love what you're talking about.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: The lived experience gives you that confidence because it is our own life that we can make our own decisions about.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's a really important piece of it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: When I think about intent versus impact, I do, I do truly think people mean well sometimes.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I also can think of examples where I, for the life of me, cannot figure out what someone's intent was other than to maybe make themselves more comfortable or to uh maybe deflect or project a little bit.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and an example I can think of is uh with Sawyer.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was nursing her.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: We were at a mall.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was nursing her, and uh you couldn't see anything, I just covered appropriately.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and a uh man walked by and made a comment about how disgusting it was that I was feeding my baby in the open.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you couldn't see anything, you saw a baby being held and she was nursing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's where that intent versus impact comes in.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Of I don't know what his intent was in terms of meaning.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, sure.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's those are the ones that are harder for me to try to like rationalize.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the impact, oh my gosh, I felt so caught off guard, a that that someone would comment to it, and I felt a little embarrassed because I was called out publicly and I was sitting there alone.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: My family was in a store shopping, I was just taking a break, so I was alone, I was getting called out, someone was saying not nice things, so I was a bit embarrassed.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I started questioning should I?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like that mall had like a nursing room.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't gonna go sit in the bathroom stall and nurse my baby.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, I was covered.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and even if I wasn't, I was just it wouldn't matter.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I wasn't cute, it wouldn't have mattered.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I was feeding my child.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: You were doing a very natural, beautiful thing for your baby in those moments.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So even if I wasn't, um like it, but I I did.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I started questioning myself and and should I have gone somewhere else?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Should I have gone to the car?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that impact was really hard.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what he didn't know, nor nor should he have, is that I couldn't nurse Bren, my older girl.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so nursing for me with Sawyer was actually something that I was really proud of and excited that I got to do, and it's so much easier than exclusively pumping, which I did for Bren.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's a piece of that intent versus impact.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what his intent was.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I have a hard time figuring out how he might have meant.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, with that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: The impact was shame and questioning myself.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: But there are times where someone, like I was saying earlier, is truly like, hey, have you tried this?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It worked really well for me.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so that is them trying to say, hey, I'm trying to help you.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the impact to me might be like, oh, I'm still questioning myself a little.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, it's more of a me thing at that point of my confidence.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and sometimes it's just calling it out 10 versus impact of like, hey, you said this thing, it didn't quite land well for me.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is this what you meant?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes it's just the clarification.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say eight out of 10, 9 out of 10 times, yeah, people actually do have good meaning behind it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of this idea of sometimes it's love, sometimes it's projection.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, like the man at the mall, it's just unnecessary.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's intent versus impact tends to be like some not always clinical or or business type leadership, but I do think it's an important aspect when we start to question ourselves or someone has said something and how we perceive it and then how we process from there.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the if you can, if you're in a comfortable situation to kind of like call that out and have that conversation with someone, especially when you mention um someone that might be repeatedly doing these things that are having that impact on us.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think having that healthy conversation around it and then being able to say, like, okay, now they know that it's impacting me in this way, but now I know their intention was not supposed to be, you know, that we were taking it two different ways.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that is a very healthy thing to do.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: But even in if you're not comfortable having that conversation, just like you said, using it to process and you know, understanding that 80% of the time, right, 80-20 rule, like it is not meant to be taken that way.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that can help a lot too.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now we are gonna try our hardest to do a rapid fire for you about advice we'll never take.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so rapid fire advice that we heard and how we respond.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what would our response be to it?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Again, just enjoy every moment.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, even when they just peed on the floor.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I guess so.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not my advice.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just take them everywhere.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Please, can I just take my toddler to my massage room?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Everywhere.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: To the bathroom.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: You chose this.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, red alert.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is never helpful.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: You might miss this.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I can assure you, I will not miss the 3 a.m.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: wake ups and the lack of sleep.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sleep.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: What is sleep?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: What is sleep?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever tried just being consistent?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that is so condescending.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, I don't even know how else to respond to that.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm trying.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not impulse.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're holding them too much.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally the job.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: What would your suggestion be for me not to hold them?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Don't make separate meals.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: What would you suggest if I don't want to eat mac and cheese for every meal?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Chicken nuggets?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Chicken nuggets, hot dogs, mac and cheese.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or in it.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the point of that advice is only helpful if it actually considers your situation.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: These are things that we have been told or that other people have said, they have been told.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so just the responses, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Of they're funny.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: We we purposely kind of tailored them that way.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: But to just say it's not always helpful to hear these things.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we might miss moments.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we may need to be more consistent or structured, but also unless it's considering your actual situation.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just don't go back.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not helpful.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not helpful.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: But there is advice that we've gotten that has been helpful.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: That we do like, even if maybe unsolicited.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: But things that people have said that that were helpful.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me what are some of those for you?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking back to my feeding journey with both my kids, I think one of the softest, most rewarding things that I heard is the reminder that a fed baby is a healthy baby.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: It did not matter what how I was feeding them.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: The important part was that they were being that they were growing, they were healthy.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one that I love personally is that everything is a phase.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't put any time constraints around it, right?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's again just more of a gentle reminder that I always appreciated and that I find myself sharing sometimes with people that this too shall pass kind of mindset.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and not having it attached to any expectation or advice at the end of the day, just that gentle reminder is helpful.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love both of those so much.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, one of the ones that really stick out is that I am only a blank-year-old parent.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I'm a seven-year-old parent.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I do not have to have it all figured out.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is okay to kind of be fumbling my way through some of it or needing to ask for guidance or advice or trial and error sometimes.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And but giving yourself permission and grace that you are only a seven-year-old parent, a three-year-old parent, a one-year-old parent, maybe you're a teenage parent and you've been a parent for 17 years, in which case you owe all of us some advice.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, asked for advice.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think just remembering that piece that we we have to give ourselves some grace.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then we don't have to do everything to be a good mom.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I like to do, I also might be somewhat of a people pleaser, but not everything has, we don't have to take it all on.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I do not have to be the soccer coach, I do not have to be the room mom.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I do not have to do all of these things to be a good mom.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to show up for my kid.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean I have to be the one orchestrating it or showing up to every single thing, knowing what works for you and what things you want to take on is really important.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And not feeling like you have to say yes to everything because it's not the amount of things that you say yes to that makes you a good mom.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's just that reminder for capacity check-ins too, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do I have in me right now to be able to give?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: What did I do this year that I can still do next year?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And not feeling like you have to always be consistent in that way either.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think also for anyone out there that has more than one kid, recognizing, like you said, you're the seven-year-old mom have been doing that, but that doesn't mean that the experiences with Bren are the same for Sawyer and same for Jack and Elle.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm running into new things with Elle that I didn't experience with Jack.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So in that situation, it's my first time going through it with her.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know why I fast-forwarded earlier today to like my kid's first heartbreak.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why am I thinking about this?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: But as a mom, because it aligns with exactly what you're saying.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Once they go through these firsts, it's our first with them and trying to navigate that and go through that experience.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I love um giving ourselves grace in those moments, no matter what that first looks like, recognizing that we're navigating it along just with them and just trying to be there to support them the best we can.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are the best pieces that I've gotten.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, that have been actually helpful.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to hear from you guys of what is the wildest unsolicited advice that was unhelpful?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Send us those.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: But also what is advice that has been helpful for you that you've got and that you've got or received?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: That was really poor English.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is what is advice that you didn't want that was wildly unhelpful?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And on the flip side, what is advice that has been helpful?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Send us in on through a DM on Instagram at messi.minded.mama.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you are listening through Spotify or Apple or Buzzsprout, there's a send a text button in the show notes, and you can send us a text with all of that, and we'll read some out next episode, the ones we receive.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So send us your advice pieces.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we want to hear from you guys so that we can share.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to bring certain things from our experience and just would love to be able to bring your experience into this as well.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that, we'll leave you with a closing thought for the day.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Motherhood comes with a lot of opinions, but at the end of the day, you know your child best.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here today.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here with us today.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: If something in this episode resonated, we're really glad you listened.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Messy minded or not, you're not alone in this, and you don't have to have it all figured out.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to stay connected, you can follow Messy Minded Mama wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And follow us on Instagram at messy.minded.mama.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be back to connect again soon.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.