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Mecum and Go. And the 2026 That Car Show BS Market List · That Car Show

• 0:00
  This is the first annual BS list.
• 0:02
  Tonight on that car show, it's a cruise show with Lindsay,
• 0:05
  Michael and me hanging out for way too long while Danny PS down
• 0:09
  in Arizona for Scottsdale Car Week.
• 0:12
  We talk about some of the surprising prices achieved at
• 0:14
  the recent Mecum auction in Kissimmee, FL.
• 0:17
  Like almost $18 million for an Enzo me.
• 0:20
  Come, you come. We all come.
• 0:22
  Also after the great time, we had a talking with Haggerty's
• 0:25
  John Wiley last week. It's the debut of our very own
• 0:28
  That car show bullshit market list.
• 0:31
  The cars that we think are going to only go up this year.
• 0:34
  Also the absolute worst cars we've ever driven.
• 0:37
  And here's where trigger warning now BMW people.
• 0:40
  All that and a lot of laughs. It's that car show.
• 0:44
  Hey, it's that car show. I'm here tonight with Lindsay
• 0:48
  and our pal Michael, who's sitting in for Danny P, who's
• 0:51
  down at Scottsdale Car Week, I think is what they're calling
• 0:54
  it, along with our pal Jorge Aquino from tormenting Tarmac
• 0:58
  and most of the rest of Instagram apparently.
• 1:01
  But it's good to see you guys. How you both doing?
• 1:03
  Great to see you both. I'm very happy to be here and
• 1:07
  I'm excited to record tonight. Absolutely.
• 1:10
  And and the Internet will tell us what goes on at car week.
• 1:13
  So we don't, you know, easy car week.
• 1:15
  So we don't even have to be there and pay the exorbitant
• 1:17
  fees and, you know, still get to enjoy it.
• 1:20
  I'm excited to hear what Dan thinks.
• 1:23
  I know. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24
  I just couldn't make it happen. You can't do everything right,
• 1:26
  you know, It's it's. Overwhelming only because unlike
• 1:31
  like, you know, we talked about it when we all went to Monterey.
• 1:35
  It's kind of contained, right? Everybody kind of descends on,
• 1:39
  you know, Pebble or whatever and then they do those, those, those
• 1:44
  kind of satellite car shows. But Westworld where they hold
• 1:49
  Bear Jackson is literally 10s of acres.
• 1:51
  And then that's separate from where RM holds their stuff.
• 1:55
  I forget, I think I forget who's at the built.
• 1:57
  Like it's none of it's geographically close.
• 2:01
  I mean, it is relatively, but you know, you're, you're
• 2:03
  travelling, you're moving between these places and so it's
• 2:07
  not like you can kind of just show up in one spot in Uber to
• 2:09
  another, etcetera. You're, you're moving around in
• 2:12
  a larger geographic area. And I mean, you know, to, to
• 2:16
  dovetail into it, that's coming off of two weeks of Mecum being
• 2:21
  at Kissimmee and doing literally 2 weeks worth of cars.
• 2:25
  And you know, what they claim to be is the largest amount ever
• 2:28
  sold at a, at a continuous auction.
• 2:33
  Ryan, did we talk? About those numbers.
• 2:35
  Yeah, what was that? Number.
• 2:36
  I apologize for looking at my phone, but what did I send you
• 2:39
  guys? No, no.
• 2:40
  And I know we dumped on Mecum a little bit in their sausage
• 2:43
  casing shirts last week, but we like Mecum and they delivered
• 2:47
  this year in Kissimmee. So there's a white 250 GTO
• 2:51
  that's a very special car. They advertised for over a year.
• 2:55
  They've been showing problems with that car for 12 months.
• 2:58
  Yeah, we're. So what was?
• 3:00
  Well, that car was making the rounds of events.
• 3:03
  It was at one of the Avance events up here because it was a
• 3:06
  car based in the Pacific Northwest.
• 3:08
  You were there with us that car week right at Mecum when it was
• 3:11
  out in the middle of a field right in a like a glass box or
• 3:13
  something. But that actually went for 38
• 3:16
  five $38,500,000 which I. Thought it'd be more.
• 3:20
  Yeah, yeah. Isn't it in history?
• 3:22
  It's. That we're like.
• 3:24
  I don't know the. History of, well, it.
• 3:26
  Has racing pedigree. Yeah, one of the few white cars.
• 3:29
  Or maybe the only white cars. It's the only factory white one.
• 3:32
  OK, yeah, yeah. But yeah.
• 3:34
  Can you imagine like the world that we're in where we're like a
• 3:37
  car went for 38, five million and we're saying like, Gee,
• 3:42
  that's all. And I was going to say they did
• 3:46
  that, not the place, but. Well, they, they do, you know,
• 3:50
  Mecum's done a really great job of bringing in, I mean they,
• 3:53
  they tried to do Jerry's 917 last year and that was really
• 3:56
  just an advertisement for it. It sold, it sold afterwards.
• 4:00
  And I think the high bid there was 24 and change.
• 4:03
  So they did 441 million in overall sales January the 17th.
• 4:10
  So a few days ago they had the highest single day auction in in
• 4:15
  automotive auction history of 259 million in one day.
• 4:22
  You had the Bachman Ferrari collection, which was a yellow
• 4:27
  Enzo, a red F50, a yellow a Perta and a 288 GTO, a red 288
• 4:38
  sell for 125 collectively. I loved that lightweight GT40.
• 4:43
  That would have been my choice that that I think that brought
• 4:45
  13. OK, I mean, let's.
• 4:49
  Go back to that Enzo for a minute, though, Michael.
• 4:51
  Like what made that Enzo worth that number?
• 4:54
  Because that's, well, no, no, the 100, the 100.
• 4:56
  And 25 is for all four cars. So you had an Enzo?
• 4:59
  But the but the Enzo went for what 17,000,000?
• 5:04
  I I don't have that. Right here, 17.75 million, it's
• 5:09
  yellow, it's got only 649 miles. But what do?
• 5:13
  What do enzos usually go for? Nowhere near that, right?
• 5:16
  Enzos are high, yeah, high. High 7 digits, high 7 digits.
• 5:20
  You know 910. You know, I thought.
• 5:24
  I mean, it's just mean two Meekum's credit and that
• 5:28
  organization's credit. They they, you know, they, they
• 5:33
  do well. Yeah, person in the pudding, I
• 5:36
  guess. There there was a conversation
• 5:39
  with Dana, it was the last year or the year before at Monterey
• 5:44
  and you know, probably spilling the beans a bit.
• 5:47
  But they, you know, they actually are doing better on the
• 5:49
  financing of these cars versus, you know, they do obviously a
• 5:54
  very good job of selling them. But the financing has been
• 5:56
  another revenue generator and that's why it that's a whole
• 5:59
  other level of this, this this ecosystem that we're seeing
• 6:03
  going on because, you know, you don't get that to bring a
• 6:06
  trailer, you got to bring your own financing.
• 6:08
  You don't get that at cars and bid when you can walk into a
• 6:11
  Barrett Jackson, you can walk into an RM, you can walk into,
• 6:14
  you know, a Meekum and and buy the car and finance it all at
• 6:18
  once. I mean that are we separating
• 6:22
  the have and have nots? They're starting to do What Car
• 6:26
  dealerships have always done. I mean, they always say that's
• 6:28
  that's where they make their money too is in the financing,
• 6:31
  extending the loans. There's no cross shopping,
• 6:34
  though, when you're sitting there with a man in a sausage
• 6:37
  casing shirt, you know, trying to sign on the dotted line and
• 6:40
  get out of Florida, right. I mean, you're, you're kind of
• 6:42
  signing where they tell you to sign.
• 6:44
  And so, you know, captive audience, I guess.
• 6:46
  And but you know. What?
• 6:47
  Good on them. Even better if you want it if.
• 6:49
  You want it? Yeah.
• 6:51
  And so I guess the larger question is, and then we can do
• 6:56
  a post mortem after, after Barrett, but what does that
• 6:59
  portend for the greater market because that there is a trickle
• 7:02
  down effect. And and we're going to, I know
• 7:04
  we're going to talk about a little teaser for the audience.
• 7:06
  So stay tuned. We're going to talk about the
• 7:08
  the Haggerty bull market and the cars that are represented there.
• 7:11
  But that does have a trickle down effect to cars that that
• 7:14
  are enthusiast cars or cars that maybe we we lust after for for
• 7:18
  various reasons. And if prices are elevated
• 7:21
  because someone's financing it or someones willing to pay an
• 7:24
  extra amount at an auction, what does that mean for the rest of
• 7:28
  us? Because that's why I feel like
• 7:30
  the first couple months of the year kind of set the the tone,
• 7:34
  barring a major economic disaster, which I'm not rooting
• 7:38
  for, like it sets the tone for the rest of the year for the
• 7:40
  rest of us. Yeah, that want to do things.
• 7:42
  Yeah, yeah. Stocks are down. 401 KS are
• 7:45
  down. Cars are up, apparently.
• 7:46
  Go ahead, Lindsay. Sorry.
• 7:47
  No, I was going to say I like that.
• 7:49
  He's saying the rest of us like we could have been in the market
• 7:52
  for the Enzo were it not for me, come extending financing to
• 7:55
  those in the room. 24.9%. Show up and right before.
• 8:00
  They can tell. No.
• 8:01
  We can at least go and and apply, yeah.
• 8:05
  What is it? Dress for the job you want, like
• 8:07
  asking for the loan. Yeah, dress for the dress for
• 8:11
  the job you drop you want. Well, they're, they're dressing
• 8:13
  for the job they want. It's obvious, you know, So some
• 8:17
  sad news though, out of that auction came out in the news, I
• 8:20
  think yesterday. There were three guys from Ohio,
• 8:22
  just regular, you know, guys that had gone down for the
• 8:25
  auction had rented an Airbnb, I think it was they had a rental
• 8:29
  car they had some trouble with. They were standing out in front
• 8:31
  of their Airbnb with this car waiting for a, you know, a, you
• 8:35
  know, a new rental car or something.
• 8:36
  And there's this crazy next door neighbor of the Airbnb that shot
• 8:39
  and killed all three of them. So really a terrible tragedy.
• 8:42
  And and Lindsay, I think as you alluded to, this is a guy that
• 8:45
  had been already been arrested for shooting into cars or
• 8:47
  something. He was arrested on attempted
• 8:50
  murder 5 or 6 years ago, so I'm not sure how he was out.
• 8:54
  But of course, you know, I mean, you never want to see that ever.
• 8:59
  But I think it hits home for the car community in this instance
• 9:02
  because it could have been any of us attending that.
• 9:05
  And obviously, you know, our hearts go out to these guys and
• 9:09
  their families and just yeah, absolutely.
• 9:11
  You know, we got to keep. Faults of Meet Gums of course
• 9:13
  had nothing to do with Meekum other than the guys were there
• 9:16
  but but sad just the same and and yeah, really.
• 9:20
  So keep your wits about you. Heads on a swivel.
• 9:23
  Absolutely. And, you know, we'll hear from
• 9:24
  Dan and the rest of Instagram about Scott still here by the
• 9:28
  time we record next week. So I'm very curious because with
• 9:32
  world events and everything else, you know, what's the
• 9:34
  consumer confidence level? Or to your point, Michael, does
• 9:36
  it not matter? Because you know.
• 9:38
  That echelon. Pittance to these folks, right?
• 9:41
  You know, 17,000,000 here and there.
• 9:42
  I've. I've.
• 9:43
  Been watching? Proof group.
• 9:44
  Yeah, well, it's an interesting group because you bring up a
• 9:47
  very good point because I I've been watching, you know, when,
• 9:52
  when did they start really broadcasting Barry Jackson on
• 9:55
  like Speed Channel? What was it like 20 years ago?
• 9:57
  15 years ago? It was a while back.
• 10:00
  And really. Yeah.
• 10:01
  You you saw you saw Friday. May I forget if they did
• 10:05
  Thursday, but you for sure saw Friday and Saturday, right?
• 10:06
  Well, they've been running live streams on YouTube all you know,
• 10:10
  since Monday or excuse me since Tuesday.
• 10:13
  And like just before we started recording, I was I was catching
• 10:16
  it for an hour or two. They're selling 6 figure cars on
• 10:19
  a Wednesday, you know, and, and, and you know, I mean, by the
• 10:23
  way, beautiful automobiles. You know, I'm not saying that
• 10:26
  the product's not good, but for a Wednesday night, right?
• 10:30
  It's not the biggest, you know, the action hasn't really
• 10:32
  started. Maybe the big buyers haven't
• 10:33
  shown up and they're still selling high 5 figure, low 6
• 10:37
  figure cars. And I'm thinking like, where is
• 10:40
  this? Like where's this money?
• 10:43
  You know, this is not all foreign money coming in like
• 10:46
  like these people are spending real money on what would
• 10:49
  arguably be a quote UN quote off night and and and what does that
• 10:53
  portend again, going back to my earlier statement or question,
• 10:56
  really like what does that mean for the rest of us as we try to
• 10:59
  find build fix? I mean, we'll talk again going
• 11:02
  back to the Haggerty bullish like those types of cars that
• 11:04
  people are bidding up fairly unfairly.
• 11:09
  We can argue that but but there was there was multiple 6 feared
• 11:12
  cars the last two hours before we we started recording.
• 11:15
  Crazy. We're just crazy.
• 11:16
  Well to bring this back to last weeks episode when we had our
• 11:18
  friend John Wiley from Haggerty on talking about the 2026 bull
• 11:23
  market list. So explain Big money.
• 11:26
  Yeah. Was that?
• 11:27
  Thanks. That was a fun one.
• 11:28
  He's great. He really knows his stuff.
• 11:30
  And, you know, just to to recap the bull market list, these are
• 11:34
  the cars that Harry expects will rise appreciably in value.
• 11:39
  There were some surprises for sure, most notably that $100,000
• 11:43
  Pontiac Aztec. But it got me thinking because,
• 11:47
  you know, there's queer GT on there, which is no one, but
• 11:50
  there was some much more modest stuff as well, and.
• 11:53
  It was definitely a thought provoking list and it was
• 11:56
  interesting to kind of hear it from the horses mouth and have
• 12:00
  John go through it for us. Yeah, go back and listen if that
• 12:03
  was a really good one, or even better yet, watch it on YouTube
• 12:05
  or on Spotify video because we've, you know, got photos of
• 12:08
  all the cars he's talking about. And it was just a great
• 12:10
  conversation and incidentally, one of our most successful shows
• 12:15
  to date when you look at the metrics around who watches or
• 12:19
  listens to the end. So if you missed it, make sure
• 12:21
  you go back. I think you're going to like it.
• 12:24
  And then tell us which. Ones you thinking disagree.
• 12:26
  With. Exactly, Exactly.
• 12:29
  Yeah. It's, you know, now obviously
• 12:31
  he's got algorithms and, you know, research and you know, all
• 12:34
  this whatever behind it. But it got me thinking, if we
• 12:36
  were to each pick three that would sort of qualify for our
• 12:39
  own bull market list, where would it bring us?
• 12:41
  So I had three come to mind right away.
• 12:45
  I don't know about you guys. Ladies first, come on, let's be
• 12:47
  gentlemen. Lindsay, what do you?
• 12:49
  Lindsay on the spot. All right.
• 12:51
  So initially I went, Oh my gosh, I don't know.
• 12:54
  And then like you said, Ryan, they three rather quickly jumped
• 12:58
  into my head. So I had a couple criteria and
• 13:02
  the biggest one was cars that are still currently attainable
• 13:04
  because I feel like that's in the spirit of the bull market
• 13:07
  list is they haven't quite taken off, but these.
• 13:10
  Are for that career GT. Right, except for the career GT.
• 13:12
  That was a hilarious. Like, we're just gonna put that
• 13:15
  there and see who's paying attention.
• 13:16
  Yeah, Yeah. So cars that are still
• 13:18
  attainable and the three that I chose are right now there are
• 13:23
  obviously outliers and one of them like you really have to
• 13:27
  look, but they are out there, but they're becoming harder and
• 13:29
  harder to find, which is why I thought they warranted inclusion
• 13:33
  on the That Car Show 2026 bull market list.
• 13:36
  But we got to come up with another name.
• 13:38
  We can't take bull. Maybe the bullshit market list
• 13:40
  right there you go is what we call it.
• 13:42
  The that car show the BS list 2026.
• 13:45
  Yeah, this is the first annual BS list.
• 13:48
  There's your your kids college fund car show.
• 13:52
  By the way, I like that I'm in Seattle, but Ryan has the Pike
• 13:54
  Place mug. Very nice.
• 13:56
  Oh, good, good, good, good, good, good.
• 13:58
  Nice little Mr. Egg for those paying attention, Yeah, yeah.
• 14:01
  I almost grabbed the steering committee mug, but you know I
• 14:04
  don't want Lindsay did our brand.
• 14:05
  So you had to go all the way to Pike's place to get it because
• 14:09
  Lindsay couldn't send you one. Right.
• 14:12
  So and the three that I chose are all daily able and there are
• 14:17
  examples of all three available for around 25,000.
• 14:20
  So that was my kind of guidance. So the and the ones that I like
• 14:26
  when I say a car, the example that I am intending is all
• 14:31
  stock. OK, not heavily modified, but
• 14:34
  that's. Sort of John's list, really.
• 14:36
  Yeah, like, you know, do with it what you will once you acquire
• 14:39
  it. But I was thinking of stock
• 14:41
  examples. So the first one is a Honda
• 14:44
  S2000 and obviously if stock again, but one of the things I
• 14:50
  like about it is that they are easily modifiable.
• 14:53
  Sure, it's a lot of bang for your buck and they make good
• 14:56
  track cars. They came with three different
• 14:59
  engines and one of them, the AP one, has a factory red line of
• 15:03
  9000 which is pretty good and right now you can find a decent
• 15:07
  example for 19 to 25,000 so. Really.
• 15:10
  Still, that's not bad at all, you know?
• 15:12
  Yeah, It's like, really? It's a Honda, Yeah.
• 15:16
  You know all that comes along with with that, right?
• 15:19
  Yeah, and like the people that the people that I know that have
• 15:21
  had them, love them, like really enjoy them.
• 15:24
  There was one that used to go to the track with me consistently
• 15:27
  and the guy just, you know, drove it hard and really enjoyed
• 15:31
  it and was thrilled with the performance.
• 15:33
  So versatile and yeah, I think worth considering.
• 15:38
  Shudder if I may, to our friend Evan Lewis, friend of the show
• 15:41
  photographer. He's on his I think 3rd 991.2 GT
• 15:46
  3RS and enjoying it very much, but made a point of going out
• 15:50
  and finding a really good S2000 and and he swears up and down
• 15:53
  that he enjoys driving that car, you know in its own way as much
• 15:56
  as the as the GT3 Rs so. You know, that's awesome.
• 16:00
  Well, we have the Evan Lewis stamp of approval on the our
• 16:03
  number one on the BS list. So moving right along the second
• 16:09
  Gen. Subaru WRXSTI of course blue
• 16:14
  yeah again a lot of bang for the buck yeah they're easily
• 16:17
  modifiable, but they're really fun stock also definitely daily
• 16:21
  able, but you could take it to the track you could take it in
• 16:23
  the canyons really a lot of the. Things called the Hawkeye.
• 16:27
  Which one is that? I think this is the yeah, it's
• 16:31
  not the bug eyed one. OK, right, right.
• 16:34
  Which also has its charms, especially in yellow, right?
• 16:36
  But yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't go wrong with
• 16:39
  blue with gold wheels, right? No, so, so good.
• 16:41
  And I feel like those were just such good cars.
• 16:43
  And unfortunately they haven't really gained much power over
• 16:46
  the years, which makes me really appreciate those early ones even
• 16:49
  more. They're just inherently good,
• 16:51
  right? Yeah.
• 16:51
  They didn't over promise and under deliver like I, I feel you
• 16:55
  know. A lot of cars, too.
• 16:57
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 16:59
  So that's number two and #3 will not be a surprise to anyone.
• 17:04
  A. Start with AP.
• 17:07
  Wait wait hold on. I think it starts with AP.
• 17:09
  I'm going to say it starts with an.
• 17:11
  FI was going to say Ryan has guessed it, a stock 5th
• 17:16
  generation Eddie Bauer Ford Bronco.
• 17:19
  So 92 to 96 which was the last year of the classic.
• 17:23
  Like what I consider the classic style Prices are holding on
• 17:29
  those. You can find them around 25,000,
• 17:31
  but a lot of them have a ton of miles on them.
• 17:35
  I was actually on the way to look at one in California within
• 17:39
  the last six months. It was a gorgeous example, you
• 17:42
  know, the red Eddie Bauer, and it had low miles.
• 17:45
  And it was, I want to say it was around 20,000.
• 17:48
  And of course, it sold before I could even go look at it.
• 17:50
  Really. Yeah, because.
• 17:52
  Have you, have you driven one of those?
• 17:54
  Yeah. That that.
• 17:56
  So Ryan, the reason I bring it up is it in in the 90s they
• 18:00
  still had a twin beam truck front axle on them.
• 18:04
  And for a live axle, it is incredibly smooth.
• 18:10
  Really those trucks? Oh my, you wouldn't think it.
• 18:13
  It's this big lumbering thing. Now you can't.
• 18:19
  Right. It's a you can't, they don't
• 18:20
  modify well suspension wise and whatnot, but but just as a stock
• 18:24
  truck, it is shocking how well that big lumbering thing like
• 18:29
  floats down the road. Interesting.
• 18:31
  Interesting. Yeah, it is.
• 18:33
  They're they're they're they're they're spectacular as far as
• 18:36
  just like a get in it drive to, you know, Pikes Peak, drive up
• 18:40
  to Vail, comfortable, It's got power, it's got room.
• 18:45
  They're they're incredibly good drives.
• 18:48
  I mean, for what they are, you're not, you're not canning,
• 18:49
  you're ripping in them. But they're just like they're do
• 18:51
  everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:53
  I mean, I like all those. One of the many reasons I love
• 18:56
  them. And cars just don't ride like
• 18:59
  they used to, right? Like those big American cars
• 19:00
  with their trucks or old Lincolns or whatever.
• 19:02
  They just had a, you know, Rolls Royce to say that they would
• 19:05
  waft or whatever, right? You know, but those cars would
• 19:07
  waft, right? I mean, there was a waftiness
• 19:10
  about those those cars for sure. So to recap, Lindsay, your three
• 19:14
  bullshit market list cars are. A Honda S2000?
• 19:18
  Yep, a second Gen. Subaru WRX STI and a fifth
• 19:24
  generation Eddie Bauer Ford Bronco.
• 19:26
  Good choices all. Thank you, I'm excited to hear
• 19:29
  both of yours. So who's?
• 19:30
  That John Wiley, right? Yeah, we're ready.
• 19:32
  You're ready. Go, go.
• 19:33
  Sure. OK.
• 19:34
  All right. Yeah.
• 19:34
  Please. You know, this is the kind of
• 19:37
  kind of thing I can get into. So I have 3:00 and then I have a
• 19:39
  couple of alternates as well. You took the page out of my book
• 19:43
  where you're like, I did the three and then I gave myself as
• 19:45
  many bonuses as I. Wanted.
• 19:47
  This may be a 2 hour show. This is.
• 19:48
  Not this is not high school. They don't offer you extra
• 19:51
  credit for for for bringing in more homework.
• 19:53
  No. But.
• 19:54
  Hey, Extra. Credit was what got me
• 19:55
  graduated. If you found five that you love,
• 19:58
  I'm here for it. So let's.
• 19:59
  Hear it all right, well, how about 3 I love and two that, you
• 20:03
  know, are close but no cigar. So I didn't stick to any sort
• 20:07
  of, you know, price cap. Mine are.
• 20:12
  Nothing is too crazy but the first one is the most expensive
• 20:16
  all over the no no career GTS, but I do have the 2016 Porsche
• 20:20
  GT4 on here now you know I'm still seeing these 20 sixteens
• 20:24
  for 70 to 90,000 right One of us here owns one.
• 20:29
  I think they, I think in a lot of ways the the 92 version is a
• 20:35
  better car. It's a little bit quicker and
• 20:37
  all this, but they made so far fewer in number of the 2016,
• 20:41
  right. And you know, as John has told
• 20:43
  us, rarity factors into it. You know, I think most people
• 20:47
  tell you the 2016 sounds better and it's just it looks great,
• 20:51
  right? You know, I think that's
• 20:52
  subjective. Do you like the 16 or do you
• 20:54
  like the 20, you know, on or whatever?
• 20:56
  But the big thing for me, it came down, I think to just
• 20:59
  rarity, you know, they're just relatively rare.
• 21:01
  They made that for one year and at least here in the States and,
• 21:05
  and they're just just great cars and I think they're undervalued.
• 21:09
  You know, I, I think they're only going to go up.
• 21:11
  I think the seven eighteens, the 98 twos are going to only go up
• 21:13
  as well. But I think there's more of a
• 21:15
  gulf for the 16, the 981. So yeah, that's didn't pick the
• 21:21
  Spider as well because as you know, in 16 the Spider and the
• 21:24
  GT4 weren't quite as close as, you know, the later cars with
• 21:28
  the 982. The spider of that air is a
• 21:30
  lovely thing too, but it's missing the edge for a couple
• 21:34
  reasons that the the GT4 has. So I think you bought, well,
• 21:37
  Lindsay and Tori and don't ever get rid of that car because it's
• 21:42
  only going to go up. And I think they're going to go
• 21:44
  up a lot. Who are we talking?
• 21:47
  Was it John or someone else? I was talking to the other day
• 21:49
  about that, you know, the, the 9 and 1.2 GT 3 and especially the
• 21:53
  Touring, but the 9 and 1.2 GT 3 is a car that will always be
• 21:57
  worth more than the GT 4. But you know, but that's going
• 22:00
  to continue to go up. And I think that the GT 4 is
• 22:02
  going to close the gap a little bit.
• 22:03
  I, I think it's so much of the, again, the inherent goodness of,
• 22:07
  of the GT3. So yeah, buy up all the good
• 22:11
  ones you can find. And that may be easier to do
• 22:15
  than my second choice, which at least here in Denver, you, you
• 22:18
  don't see too much anymore, at least the good ones.
• 22:21
  And that's the 1987 to 1994 Range Rover.
• 22:24
  So the big boy, that is the first Range Rover that was
• 22:28
  brought to the States and I fell in love with them.
• 22:32
  Then I, I, I begged, you know, pleaded with my parents to buy
• 22:36
  one to trade in our, our Chrysler minivan, which will
• 22:40
  come up later in the show for one of these.
• 22:43
  And, you know, years later they would go on and get a discovery
• 22:46
  too. But, but, but there's something
• 22:48
  about that first Range Rover, right, that 87 to 94.
• 22:51
  And I have a soft spot for the later ones.
• 22:54
  You know, they there was a white extended wheelbase one that they
• 22:57
  came out with. I think it was the county LWB.
• 23:00
  And to me that's the one to have.
• 23:01
  It had this really high end ADS stereo system, which was cool
• 23:04
  with the subwoofer in the back. If you had one of those with the
• 23:08
  car phone in the middle and a little curly antenna, you were
• 23:11
  so gangster. And I, I love those and you
• 23:14
  never see them. And I think if you can find a
• 23:17
  good one, they're still pretty reasonable.
• 23:19
  And I would own one if I could. So that's number two from.
• 23:24
  Do either one of you have any experience?
• 23:26
  Have you either one of you owned a class of?
• 23:27
  Range Rover. So the Range Rover I have.
• 23:30
  Yeah, OK. Yeah, the the fun thing and the
• 23:34
  interesting about that, that the V8 that they use from like the
• 23:38
  mid 60s until the early, the what is it the late 90s or
• 23:41
  whatever. Yeah, that's the that is a
• 23:43
  Buick. That's right.
• 23:45
  You ever hear that story? Yeah, yeah.
• 23:48
  Yeah, there's I'm going to butcher the story, but but for
• 23:50
  our listeners that haven't heard the story, that what was it like
• 23:54
  Range Rover was in Britain somehow, some way, there was a
• 23:59
  discarded Buick V8 that GM didn't end up using basically.
• 24:06
  And and somebody from I I think they went to try I'm gonna
• 24:10
  butcher it, but but you guys, it's all over the Internet.
• 24:12
  Long story short, someone from from Land Rover said, what's
• 24:16
  that over there? It was literally discarded like
• 24:18
  in the side of a of AI shit. You not it was it was on the
• 24:21
  side of a Yeah, it was like it was like in the corner of the
• 24:23
  building of the and they said, oh, that's just a that's a VA.
• 24:26
  We, you know, Buick never put into production and so they took
• 24:29
  the whole architecture. That amazing.
• 24:31
  That that architecture was from like the mid 60s and obviously
• 24:35
  they might have modified it a little bit, but that market
• 24:38
  texture ran until what, like early 2000s late?
• 24:41
  90s. And it's the same, it's the same
• 24:44
  48 that that was a Buick derived Buick designed discard from GM.
• 24:51
  And so, yeah, I owned one for a bit in Denver.
• 24:54
  It was it's just it they just get rusty, unfortunately that's
• 24:58
  that's their great downfall. I I lust after the 2 doors I
• 25:03
  want to Have you seen the 2? Doors.
• 25:05
  They never sold here, so they they three years ago at Pebble
• 25:09
  they brought over a collection of the Queens Land Rovers and it
• 25:14
  was stunning. There's all sorts of fun stuff
• 25:17
  and there's pictures all over the Internet.
• 25:18
  I definitely. Popemobile esque and.
• 25:21
  Just like, yeah, yeah. And the royal Crest is on the
• 25:23
  door and like, they're all beautiful, right?
• 25:26
  Yeah, one on her color. 2 door. Claret, Yeah.
• 25:30
  Yeah, and they're fun. They're fun.
• 25:32
  So Ryan, go down that rabbit hole because you're going to do
• 25:34
  some wonderful stuff. But a 2A2 door, it's like not as
• 25:39
  big as the long wheelbase, but it's definitely a little bit.
• 25:41
  It's almost as long as the regular wheelbase.
• 25:43
  It is such a great, like that's a good pick.
• 25:45
  That's a very good pick. Thank you.
• 25:47
  I I just I have such a thing. I've never owned 1.
• 25:49
  You know, I've kind of, I don't know, segwayed more into the old
• 25:53
  G wagon kind of camp lately, but I love those when I see one,
• 25:56
  they just look so good. And when those came out, you can
• 25:59
  you have to take yourself back to that time and remember how
• 26:02
  special those were. And you know, it's just it was
• 26:06
  it was really the measure of success or it was it was
• 26:09
  something you wanted to own and unlike anything else.
• 26:12
  And it just really was a statement piece in a way that I
• 26:14
  just don't know there is a car that kind of is a statement
• 26:18
  piece in the same way now, but. Special, special things like
• 26:22
  that was that was the sort of dawn of the SUV age with SU VS
• 26:27
  were not everywhere the way that they are now.
• 26:29
  When those came out and I remember, you know, that became
• 26:33
  like very much a status symbol in Newport Beach.
• 26:38
  You know, that was the day where you were, you know, family car
• 26:41
  if you had arrived. Yep, Yep.
• 26:44
  And we've told us now about yeah, yeah, we've talked about
• 26:48
  when you could go back in time and walk into a showroom, like
• 26:50
  what the peak year would be. And you know, I think we talked
• 26:53
  about Porsche and Mercedes and Ford as well.
• 26:56
  Well, 1994, so the, the is penultimate word, the last year
• 27:00
  of the classic Range Rover. So, you know, 94.
• 27:05
  But in 94, you could also get the Defender right in the
• 27:08
  States, Yeah, at least the 2 door, the saw in the soft top 2
• 27:12
  door, and I think it was the Discovery one that came out in
• 27:16
  1994. So in 1994, to me, peak Land
• 27:20
  Rover slash Range Rover slash Defender in the US and done and
• 27:23
  done. But all right, I better move
• 27:25
  along. Otherwise, again, this is going
• 27:26
  to be a three hour show. My final pick is a car that's
• 27:29
  near and dear to my heart, even if I might not be able to fit in
• 27:31
  one in 2026. But it is the 2005 to 2011 Lotus
• 27:36
  Elise. This is a car that they're
• 27:39
  getting tougher and tougher to find.
• 27:40
  They really are. This was the car, I think it was
• 27:43
  Doug Demura always joked about, was always the $32,000 car.
• 27:46
  Well, those days are gone. These have come up quite a bit.
• 27:49
  I think a good one is closer to 50 or $60,000 more.
• 27:52
  Someone's going to correct me. But it's we've talked those
• 27:56
  talked about this before. It's one of those cars that it's
• 27:58
  on my bucket list. Cars you need to drive before
• 28:00
  you die. And then they were new.
• 28:03
  My roommate, my buddy Andy, got one.
• 28:05
  It was a silver over red 1. He daily drove it.
• 28:07
  We took that thing everywhere. The two of us big guys stuffed
• 28:10
  into this little thing. But I have such fond memories
• 28:12
  and well, it might not be so quick in 2026.
• 28:17
  It's everything else. It's quick enough.
• 28:19
  It handles like nothing else. It is a go Kart that two
• 28:21
  grown-ups can fit in. Either one of you have
• 28:24
  experience with this car? I have seen the outside of one
• 28:28
  but I haven't driven it yet. Is that all OK?
• 28:30
  You've got to drive one, Lindsay, and you'd fit.
• 28:33
  They're fun, they're fun, they're go karts.
• 28:35
  Very much in the Colin Chapman light.
• 28:38
  Lighter is better. I think we'd be remiss not to
• 28:42
  give it its due in signifying how it changed the world.
• 28:46
  And you're both looking at me like, you know, normally I'm
• 28:49
  crazy, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna go crazy.
• 28:51
  That is that is the that is the genesis in the basis car for the
• 28:56
  Tesla Roadster. So if you don't have the Lotus
• 28:59
  elites, that's right, you don't have Tesla and you don't have
• 29:03
  whatever direction the world is going to take going forward.
• 29:07
  But Tesla success was built on a Roadster that was imported from
• 29:12
  England and basically just kind of slightly garage modified.
• 29:17
  I'm being a little facetious there, but I mean, if they don't
• 29:20
  have the Lotus leash, you don't have the Tesla Roadster.
• 29:22
  I mean, that car probably should be veered more.
• 29:25
  Maybe that's why the, the, the finances, the numbers are coming
• 29:28
  up is because that without that car, you don't have, you don't.
• 29:31
  I mean, maybe Tesla would have found a different car to base
• 29:33
  their, their engineering on, but you don't have, you don't have
• 29:37
  Tesla with you without that car, which I think is kind of a
• 29:41
  footnote of history. Yeah, that's a great a great
• 29:44
  point. It's funny because I think the
• 29:45
  Tesla Roadsters are generally worth more than the Lotus Elises
• 29:48
  of these days, which is kind of crazy.
• 29:49
  Oh yeah, now they work. But they didn't sell that many
• 29:52
  they. No, that's.
• 29:54
  They didn't sell that many elises by and large because, you
• 29:57
  know, they were, the reliability was, you know, not always the
• 30:01
  most easy to deal with, but sure, sure, sure.
• 30:04
  I think they've, I think they've, I think they've managed
• 30:06
  the aftermarkets, managed to, to, to man, you know, to
• 30:08
  mitigate a lot of that. It is one of the truly special
• 30:12
  cars. And, you know, the fact that,
• 30:14
  yeah, like Hennessy and others have have put much more power
• 30:16
  than 190 horsepower into these things, right, I think is a
• 30:19
  testament to just, you know, what a great design they were.
• 30:23
  So, all right, the bullshit list continues, Michael.
• 30:29
  Yeah, you're going to have a you're going to have a couple
• 30:30
  surprises. I know you are.
• 30:32
  Well, but Woody Ryan, we're going to hear your two runners
• 30:35
  up. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:35
  What are your alders Real? Quickly.
• 30:37
  Oh, sorry. OK, Yeah.
• 30:38
  Well, yeah, maybe we. All right, OK, a car.
• 30:42
  Talk about a car you never see anymore, the Honda Del Sol SI.
• 30:48
  Oh. Wow.
• 30:49
  Not true. Not true.
• 30:50
  Tomorrow. You know what?
• 30:51
  No. What we're going to do I'm I'm
• 30:53
  sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but but around the
• 30:56
  around the corner from me is a is a individual woman, very
• 30:59
  lovely neighbor of mine two blocks down.
• 31:01
  She has a pink like pink inside and out Del Sol that she has the
• 31:07
  abbreviated license plate of Hello Kitty.
• 31:10
  I'm going to send that to you. I'm going to send those photos
• 31:13
  to you tomorrow because she St. parks it and then you can use
• 31:16
  that as the thumbnail for this episode.
• 31:18
  There we go. There, there we go.
• 31:19
  That really kind of goes and. She drives it all the time,
• 31:21
  works just fine. She she's puts the top, you
• 31:24
  know, takes the target top off. Yep, Yep.
• 31:27
  It's a runner. I had a friend in college who
• 31:28
  had not an SI, but they made like, you know, whatever the,
• 31:31
  the Lester with LX or something, right?
• 31:33
  And it was such a neat car because it had this removable
• 31:36
  roof panel that if I recall correctly, you could put in the
• 31:38
  back. It was, it felt kind of exotic
• 31:42
  or something, right? It, it had, you know, it just
• 31:44
  didn't feel like it felt like a Honda very much so, but it also
• 31:46
  just felt special and it felt like kind of a throwback kind of
• 31:49
  car. It was just a a neat sort of
• 31:51
  highly engineered little thing that I don't think, you know, it
• 31:55
  was competing against cars like the Toyota Paseo at the time.
• 31:58
  I mean, it was the last time you gave, you know, that a, you
• 32:00
  know, a passing thought, right. But the Delaso was kind of neat.
• 32:02
  And if you could find an SI again, tiny little thing that
• 32:05
  tried to fit in it in 2026, but a really neat car.
• 32:08
  And then my other one that I went back and forth on about
• 32:11
  seriously, including in the the top three is the original Jeep
• 32:14
  Cherokee. I think it's the XJ if I'm not
• 32:16
  mistaken, and that's a car that we had a couple in my family, a
• 32:20
  2 door and then later a white one with the burgundy interior,
• 32:25
  sort of the Plaid seats. Both wonderful cars.
• 32:28
  Remember them driving very differently. 1 was like an early
• 32:31
  like an 8045 and the later 1 was like maybe an 88 or an 89 and so
• 32:36
  different interiors and all that but never see a good one.
• 32:39
  Occasionally see one here in Denver, you know, lifted or
• 32:41
  something. But I like that, especially that
• 32:44
  first generation before they went to the round or the, you
• 32:46
  know, the more rounded headlights and tail.
• 32:48
  Lights. Yeah, the square.
• 32:48
  Steering wheel and all that. Yeah, I just think those are
• 32:51
  neat, neat cars. 190 horsepower, straight 6.
• 32:54
  They felt pretty quick on their feet at the time.
• 32:56
  Small and, you know, by today's standards, really, really tight.
• 33:00
  Little things, but wonderful cars.
• 33:02
  Again, if you couldn't afford a Range Rover back in the day, a
• 33:05
  Cherokee Limited was kind of a a, you know, nice second place,
• 33:10
  Yeah. Yeah, well, and I so Ryan, I had
• 33:12
  two friends, one in college and one after who had two doors that
• 33:16
  were manual was. Wow.
• 33:19
  Wow, is that what you guys had? No, both of ours were
• 33:21
  automatics. But you know, I, I spent one of
• 33:25
  the best summers in my life working in Door County,
• 33:27
  Wisconsin. 11 summer waiting tables and washing dishes and A
• 33:33
  and a yacht cup Yacht Club of all places.
• 33:35
  My grandparents had a silver 2 Door, I think it was a Cherokee
• 33:38
  Chief, whatever that meant. It had a Blau punk head unit in
• 33:41
  it. And I thought I was the king
• 33:43
  that summer. I just, I loved that thing.
• 33:46
  Yeah. Just fantastic.
• 33:47
  Fantastic. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:50
  So that's my 3 and 3 + 2. I think our list is going to be
• 33:55
  10 + a bonus because those are all good choices those.
• 33:59
  Are those are great choices? This is good, right?
• 34:01
  I mean, you know, I think I think the the you know, the, the
• 34:04
  that car show bullshit list I think has legs, but.
• 34:06
  I think it does all right. What do you have, Michael?
• 34:11
  I can't wait to to hear. This is this is going to require
• 34:14
  a little bit of work on your your part and either one of you
• 34:16
  seen AI think it's like an 80. I think they were 8887, 88.
• 34:22
  They only made it for a couple 2-3 years.
• 34:25
  The Seven. The Volvo 780.
• 34:27
  Bertone. Yes, it's chopped.
• 34:31
  Well, no. Well, I mean it seems.
• 34:32
  Chopped. It seems chopped.
• 34:34
  It's so so Lizzie, it's a 2 door Volvo, right?
• 34:38
  Designed by designed by Bertone. Oh, OK.
• 34:42
  So it it's so it's got a little flavor to it.
• 34:45
  It's got these really wild kind of 2 tone seats.
• 34:50
  It's a it's, it's not really a 2 + 2, but they advertised as a 2
• 34:54
  + 2. It was a 5 cylinder Volvo motor.
• 34:58
  It's the square body like this, the this kind of 740 style with
• 35:01
  the long nose, the weird squared off nose.
• 35:03
  I'm looking at it now. So good.
• 35:05
  That that it but but that is a perfect engine swap.
• 35:08
  We'll go down in another podcast what Paul Newman had for his he
• 35:15
  he he swapped out like two or three different Volvos.
• 35:19
  I think he lived and had Connecticut knew and and he
• 35:21
  would put at the time. You know this is in the 80s and
• 35:24
  90s like 5 liter Mustang motors in them right?
• 35:26
  Right. So and David Leonard, he told
• 35:29
  Dave he's like, this is what I'm having made.
• 35:31
  Do you want 1? So David has, Dave has one too.
• 35:34
  Yep, Yep. So so I've always been a
• 35:36
  fantasy. Take one of those two door
• 35:38
  Batonas put in like a, you know, a small block, whatever with a 5
• 35:42
  speed and it looks good. It's a cruiser.
• 35:45
  It's got, you know, a decent like it's just it's very of its
• 35:48
  era. But you're never going to see,
• 35:50
  you know, I we've all been to, you know, Radwood or whatever.
• 35:54
  You don't, you know, again, lost to the ages of time.
• 35:56
  Yeah, so to speak. But but, but that's been I, I
• 36:01
  fantasized about those and, and search for those for and they're
• 36:04
  super cheap, but you know, they're a full redo.
• 36:06
  I mean, they're, they're not a cheap, you know, that's doesn't
• 36:08
  expensive proposition to, to renovate it, not so much to buy
• 36:12
  it. That's it.
• 36:13
  And when you when you first said the Bertoni, I was thinking
• 36:17
  about the earlier, I think it was based on the 240 that had a
• 36:20
  really chopped look of the model 240 that. 240 is beautiful,
• 36:24
  equally gorgeous. See, I think it's hideous.
• 36:27
  I think it's hideous. I love I I have an eBay now it's
• 36:30
  getting to that 240 Bertoni I like and all it keeps showing me
• 36:34
  is models like a. Small model companies.
• 36:38
  I can't find impossible to find. Impossible.
• 36:42
  I think you could turn that into like a cool low rider hot rod,
• 36:45
  but stock. I thought that thing was Gastly.
• 36:47
  Oh no, they're they're both ugly as shit.
• 36:50
  Oh. I think the newer 1 is really,
• 36:52
  really quite nice and it kind of was a precursor to, was it the
• 36:54
  C70 that came up a few years later, right?
• 36:58
  Kind of. But the Volvo, underrated,
• 37:01
  underrated enthusiast car across the board.
• 37:04
  But that's a deep cut, Michael. That was this.
• 37:06
  Is like a behind the scenes like the making of the BS list.
• 37:09
  Like there's, there's fighting. It's also kind of a reward shot.
• 37:13
  Here, you know, we we bring up and that was my that was if I
• 37:16
  took issue with anything. Yeah, I can only speak about one
• 37:19
  Wow, a couple cars in the in the Haggerty list.
• 37:21
  But what's challenging about Oh goodness, which?
• 37:25
  Challenging. Just settle down.
• 37:27
  Michael, settle down. Yeah, I know which banging,
• 37:30
  banging on the table to tell you a podcast never bang on the
• 37:32
  table. What's challenging about these
• 37:34
  lists is that the career GT notwithstanding and but like I,
• 37:40
  I, I've, I haven't owned one, but I've driven extensively like
• 37:43
  the, the, the M5 right or now that Alpha GTV.
• 37:48
  Those are always great. But I'll tell you flat out, they
• 37:51
  pick the 454 s s and this is not me bagging on Haggerty.
• 37:54
  God bless them. They do their thing.
• 37:55
  They're excellent in what they do.
• 37:57
  That's a car you buy. It is rare.
• 37:59
  Yeah, it's. Boring.
• 38:01
  It's heavy. I mean, I I don't have it that's
• 38:04
  not a 454, but it's the same but like.
• 38:06
  You're gonna you're. Gonna drive that car for six
• 38:08
  months and then you're gonna get rid of it.
• 38:09
  Right, so. So when you look at these cars
• 38:13
  and if they to achieve kind of a Grand National GNX status or
• 38:19
  the, the, the career, like how do you make them desirable once
• 38:22
  you've driven them and, and other people drive them and say,
• 38:25
  Oh my God, I want that experience too.
• 38:27
  And I felt like this year it was a little lacking in that regard
• 38:31
  because you could buy these cars and they're going up in value
• 38:33
  and they're cool, but would you keep them or if a friend drove
• 38:37
  them? And much like to what you guys
• 38:39
  do, especially Ryan, you know, we want to hear about your cars
• 38:41
  and coffee, but like when you hand the keys to a friend and
• 38:45
  say, experience this with me and they're like, oh shit, I need
• 38:48
  one of these too. How do you further things?
• 38:51
  And there are a couple cars and I, I promise you a 454 S S,
• 38:54
  which I've owned and driven and like they're, they're boring.
• 38:58
  They look badass though. They look so good but.
• 39:00
  You can make any one of these look.
• 39:01
  Badass for. For for 1/3 of the price and
• 39:05
  it's a 454 cubic inch V8 that makes all of 255 horsepower and
• 39:10
  it'll get you about 8 gallons to the mile like it's the novelty's
• 39:14
  going to wear off. And if it's 304050 grand, you
• 39:18
  ain't throwing anything in the bed so you can't even really use
• 39:20
  it as a truck. OK, you know what's a better
• 39:22
  choice? Maybe the Dodge Dakota
• 39:25
  convertible could have taken? Which one?
• 39:28
  The Shelby convertible. The Shelby 80?
• 39:30
  The Shelby? Were they all Shelby's?
• 39:32
  I can't remember. Yes, the the the the.
• 39:35
  Well, you may be. I forget you may be.
• 39:37
  Right. I don't have that like that,
• 39:39
  that Targa bar or whatever. Yeah, the the Halo bar.
• 39:43
  Yeah, those are, yeah. Same problem there, rusted out,
• 39:46
  but again, yeah, not. Fast.
• 39:47
  Like you had this you're you ever seen a a a a a a an Omni
• 39:52
  GLH? Sure goes like hell, yeah.
• 39:54
  Goes like hell. I mean like they're so these
• 39:57
  cars are. Grand National in the front
• 40:00
  words. I know.
• 40:02
  I'm like, I mean, well, I just looked up the Dodge Dakota
• 40:05
  convertible. I don't think anybody would look
• 40:07
  at that silhouette and expect a lot of performance.
• 40:10
  That is a that is a performance art driving that.
• 40:14
  That's where our nostalgia and that's where the there you go.
• 40:17
  Like that's where we're, we're, we're out of an age group that
• 40:20
  that is at the middle of the Venn diagram, right?
• 40:23
  Because we, we heard about the 60s performance and got to
• 40:26
  experience it one way or the other, you know, you know,
• 40:29
  seeing it or, or you know, being in the, in the passenger seat.
• 40:32
  Then we saw the 80s and 90s where they tried to do
• 40:34
  performance right, and it was but yet, you know, you know, the
• 40:39
  the E36 M threes and all these things that are like going up in
• 40:43
  value, but they're not really that fast.
• 40:45
  But then you get into where we're at now and people with
• 40:47
  with with significant money are, you know, they're resto modding
• 40:51
  everything. I mean, singer is a singer is
• 40:53
  the perfect example of overspending on something that
• 40:56
  wasn't very good to be. I mean, it was, it was good at,
• 40:59
  at what it was at the time, but like it was, you know, there, it
• 41:03
  was ancient. And, and they're spending
• 41:04
  $1,000,000 on a car that you could have bought for five grand
• 41:07
  15 years ago. And they have to say that the
• 41:10
  car is not brilliant, but like they're changing what it was.
• 41:13
  It's, that's not the thing. And so we're at this weird
• 41:16
  intersection of you buy these cars and then what do you do
• 41:19
  with it? And and, and is it, you know, I
• 41:21
  took a little bit issue with like the the what ND or NA Miata
• 41:25
  that they had? And what the first thing?
• 41:27
  NB. Or NB, you take that Miata, the
• 41:29
  first thing you're going to do is either throw a supercharge on
• 41:32
  it, V8, swap it like, you know, you're not just going to go.
• 41:36
  They're slow, you're slow. And, and, and especially to, you
• 41:38
  know, as Ryan, you're going to talk about your experiences with
• 41:40
  the, the loaner cars you've had in a minute.
• 41:42
  Everything's fast. Now I know like I know the
• 41:45
  extent well. Not everything like.
• 41:47
  Yeah, whatever you drove, as you talk about these two cars,
• 41:51
  you're going to talk about they're both fashion in that
• 41:53
  Miata. Oh, it's, it's, it's true, it's
• 41:56
  true, especially in NB, You know, I think, you know, the NDS
• 41:58
  seem slow, but they're quite a bit quicker even than the NDS,
• 42:01
  right? But I.
• 42:03
  Think that's the fun part because you can buy the stock
• 42:06
  one, yeah. And then you can it's change it
• 42:09
  the way that you want. You can make it your own it's.
• 42:11
  True, but then again. #2. Then real quickly then when we
• 42:14
  then we move past and how why it's a valuable why a value car
• 42:17
  right then why it's an affordable car All right, real
• 42:19
  quickly. Well, let's finish this out
• 42:21
  because. Somehow we're at 41 minutes
• 42:23
  this. I'm not saying this is a bad
• 42:24
  long. Winded.
• 42:25
  Everybody. Everybody.
• 42:26
  On the record in the. Podcast knows I'm long winded.
• 42:29
  The sleeper car honestly is the what is it the O7O8RS4
• 42:34
  convertible. They only made like they only
• 42:38
  made like 400 like literally only made like 300 a year or 400
• 42:43
  a year. They don't have I owned it.
• 42:46
  I, I, I can tell you a whole other story about my S4, my O2 S
• 42:49
  4, which I love to death until so I got someone hit it while I
• 42:53
  was parked. Those are great cars.
• 42:56
  Yes, they're not the fastest of that era with the with the C
• 42:59
  Class and all the rest of it, but works great like especially
• 43:03
  the the RS4 because it's got the improved timing chain guides,
• 43:07
  something generally bulletproof, but but they literally made like
• 43:10
  300 a year of those things like that and.
• 43:13
  Carve I've almost forgotten about we talk about the sedan
• 43:16
  quite often and I have a couple friends here who've got them.
• 43:19
  I own the the S the non Rs but the the O 8 the last year of
• 43:23
  that that. Yeah, I had an OI, had an O
• 43:25
  four. Yeah, which is more or less the
• 43:27
  same car. Yeah.
• 43:28
  But that convertible, Michael, you, you know, that was a rare,
• 43:30
  rare thing as you've as we illustrated and it had a
• 43:33
  completely different interior. Do you remember that?
• 43:36
  The whole sedan. Dash whole different, everything
• 43:38
  completely different. It still has it still had a good
• 43:41
  it had more bracing, so it was different than the than the
• 43:44
  sedan, but it had it still had that aggressive kind of, you
• 43:47
  know, it had the haunches. Yeah, it was beautiful.
• 43:49
  In retrospect, maybe even the better looking of the two right
• 43:52
  it just. I I agree.
• 43:54
  I I like any car that kind of has a square stance and that
• 43:57
  very much had that. I don't know if it actually had
• 43:58
  a shorter wheelbase or not, but it, it seemed like a different
• 44:01
  car. And yeah, that's a that again,
• 44:03
  that is a relatively modern deep cut, so.
• 44:07
  And. Then I I think.
• 44:08
  Last, lastly, a car that that I owned that that that and and it
• 44:17
  will. This will go on the record AI
• 44:20
  owned a 92, but the 90 the the 90 through 95 ZR 1C, the C4
• 44:28
  Corvette the car the the interior's garbage, but the
• 44:33
  drivetrain is that car that's a that's a Lotus designed.
• 44:40
  It has no it has no shared parts with a normal 5.7350 V 8.
• 44:46
  It is a Lotus design. It is completely Lotus design
• 44:50
  built in England or engineer in England built in Stillwater OK
• 44:54
  from Mercury Marine who was the the the the boat company 32
• 45:00
  valves 1616 injectors had a power key right.
• 45:04
  You could go from 275 to it was 375 and in the later years it
• 45:08
  was four O 5. But that thing, it had AZF.
• 45:12
  So it had AZF 6 speed. One of the early 6 speed boxes,
• 45:16
  bulletproof. That car drove so well it
• 45:21
  sounded. There's nothing that sounds like
• 45:24
  it is. 400 horsepower or 500 I think.
• 45:27
  The 990 through 92 or two or three 75 in 93 to 95.
• 45:36
  When they stopped production, they were four O 5 and just that
• 45:41
  car ran that car ran with a good exhaust yeah, I owned a 92 that
• 45:46
  was cocaine spec white on white. I love it.
• 45:51
  I had AI had a cocaine spec white on white.
• 45:54
  I mean, deluxe people would give you, especially once they saw
• 45:56
  the interior, but yeah, yeah. And it rattles like like the car
• 46:00
  is sure, sure. It's not that the car is
• 46:02
  horrible and it all works, but it it ran it steers really well.
• 46:06
  It it rotates very well. I never took it on track, but
• 46:09
  you know, you do some spirited driving in it.
• 46:12
  It's it's a better car than you think it is.
• 46:14
  And that a high Miller is in the teens.
• 46:18
  Yeah, collector grade is is 4050 plus.
• 46:21
  But then again, it it it's going to have all the seals are bad.
• 46:24
  Like it's, you know, it's it's a problem, but you could you could
• 46:27
  buy one for 2025 grand and drive the everliving snot out of it.
• 46:30
  Tons of aftermarket support and you know.
• 46:34
  Our pal Brian Rudin, uh, who's been on the show, who has, among
• 46:38
  other things, uh, Diablo. I've driven an F40, haven't
• 46:40
  driven yet. Oh yeah, right.
• 46:42
  Adino goes on and on. He just picked one up because it
• 46:45
  was like these other cars, a poster car for him when he was
• 46:47
  in middle school, high school. I think he paid like 25 grand.
• 46:51
  It's a really nice car. It's not, you know, a Concord
• 46:54
  we. Should we should.
• 46:55
  I'm happy to coach him through it because there are some things
• 46:57
  that those things need, not just maintenance wise, but also the
• 47:02
  the only thing it needs is just an exhaust.
• 47:04
  You don't need to cut the headers out.
• 47:05
  You don't need to do all the crap you don't need.
• 47:08
  Like, not just it's so much fun you should.
• 47:12
  You sure you know you got it. You got to get behind the wheel.
• 47:14
  Yeah, no, I, I plan, I plan to, you know, and you know it.
• 47:19
  We talk about the Diablo, right, That he's got I in the Autoblog
• 47:22
  article. I did, I refer to it as, I don't
• 47:24
  know, like a cigarette boat or something.
• 47:26
  But I kind of feel like, you know, the, the ZR1 is that same
• 47:28
  sort of vibe. It's all fiberglass and
• 47:30
  literally a marine engine, right?
• 47:32
  Or damn close, right? No, no, no, yeah, it's, it's,
• 47:35
  it's as close as you can get. Cuz people forget at one point
• 47:38
  GM owned Lotus, like fully owned Lotus.
• 47:41
  Yeah. Hired them to, to engineer a
• 47:44
  brand new engine. There was all sorts of, you
• 47:46
  know, obviously backroom drama. And then they, they outsourced
• 47:50
  it to a, you know, Mercury Marine in Stillwater, OK, to
• 47:54
  build the actual motor. It's amazing Tim Allen had had
• 47:58
  GM put one in a Impala s s for him.
• 48:02
  Boyd Coddington put one in a in a OBS truck a 92 or a 93.
• 48:08
  They're they're remarkable engines and sound.
• 48:12
  I I promise you 32 valve just 1616 injectors individual
• 48:18
  runners like you know as complex as anything of it's time.
• 48:24
  It just didn't the, the, the downfall was it didn't look that
• 48:28
  much different than a regular Corvette.
• 48:29
  So when you walk into the showroom and it's $30,000 for a
• 48:32
  Corvette and it's $70,000 for AZR one, you're like short of
• 48:36
  the motor, like what am I getting?
• 48:37
  And and you know, that was that marketing, but that thing runs
• 48:41
  and for a reasonable amount it runs.
• 48:44
  You know this, back in the day when those were new, you would
• 48:47
  check the tail lights of every Corvette of that era you saw in
• 48:50
  hopes that you'd see the squared off tail lights and that it was
• 48:53
  AZR one, right? I would.
• 48:54
  Tell you. But that's what that's what you
• 48:57
  couldn't do. There's only two places you can
• 48:59
  see where that's AZR One it had. It was the only one, at least
• 49:03
  until 96 that had a stop lamp up above.
• 49:07
  So you know how it had that hatch?
• 49:09
  It had a third brake light up top.
• 49:12
  But which, you know, on the deck, yeah.
• 49:14
  Correct, correct. Instead of on the back bumper it
• 49:17
  had it had a stop light. But the other thing you could
• 49:19
  tell is when you looked at the license plate surround, you have
• 49:23
  the license plate right and it's called rectangle.
• 49:26
  And then the the mounting point was the was this black frame and
• 49:30
  it was like that thick. OK.
• 49:33
  The ZR1's worth wider because the car is an inch and a half.
• 49:37
  It's 3 inches wider in the rear. The.
• 49:40
  Doors are different. Yeah.
• 49:41
  Everything from the cowl back is different.
• 49:43
  The doors are wider because they have to flare out more because
• 49:46
  the car is literally 3 inches but you.
• 49:49
  But to the average person, they didn't put flares, they didn't
• 49:52
  do all the body mug. It doesn't look any different.
• 49:54
  And I think when you're spending 70 grand back in the day, you
• 49:58
  wanted to, you pulled the valet, you wanted to look different
• 50:01
  than the guy who's just driving his run-of-the-mill.
• 50:03
  But get in that car. I, I, I think that is a 2026.
• 50:07
  Q one. Well, whether or not was
• 50:09
  standing out there, you need to get in that car so we can we can
• 50:12
  hear your thoughts, but more importantly take that top off
• 50:15
  and and hear what it sounds like.
• 50:18
  So in college I had a girl pick me up in a yellow ZR1 and I
• 50:23
  thought she was the coolest thing in the world.
• 50:25
  I'd later figured out that was most likely her boyfriend's car
• 50:29
  and her boyfriend owned a strip club, so it all kind of tracked.
• 50:33
  I was hoping you're going to say husband, but that's all right.
• 50:37
  So it all made sense. Yeah, that's the first and last
• 50:40
  time I've ever been in his year one and I'll never forget it.
• 50:43
  And you've got a great story out of.
• 50:46
  It that's a better story than me, only one that is a good
• 50:48
  story. That is a memorable story, well
• 50:51
  done. Sometimes you got to do things
• 50:53
  for the sake of the plot, right? That's right.
• 50:54
  That's right. Well, I think these are I guess
• 50:58
  9 or 11 depending on how you're counting.
• 51:01
  The 10 + 1 alternate. Is what we're going.
• 51:04
  To say. If I the one of you, Ryan, you
• 51:06
  probably see him a lot out there.
• 51:07
  Have you ever driven an Audi 4000?
• 51:10
  I have not, although my I have an uncle who I believe still
• 51:14
  owns one has one in his. I want to buy them.
• 51:17
  If I'm going on the record, I want to buy.
• 51:18
  Yeah, OK. The best car, especially in
• 51:21
  especially in Colorado. Yeah, that and a set of snow
• 51:24
  tires. Honest to God, you can.
• 51:26
  I drove that thing to Steamboat. Best car ever.
• 51:30
  Oh my God. Really.
• 51:31
  Oh my God, really? If you can.
• 51:32
  Play ever a. Thing now that is a.
• 51:36
  That's a. Statement 60 minutes era Audi
• 51:39
  right there. Oh my God.
• 51:40
  I. Was I want it I want.
• 51:44
  It well, that's a car you just don't see and maybe that should
• 51:47
  be on the next list, right? But there you go.
• 51:50
  There's the 2026 that car show market list.
• 51:55
  Yeah, yeah, that's right. All right, Should we move on
• 51:58
  the? List, yes.
• 51:59
  Yes, please. But that was fun.
• 52:00
  I applaud you both on very good choices so.
• 52:04
  Yeah, both. You both had great ideas.
• 52:07
  Well chosen, gentlemen. That car show is brought to you
• 52:10
  by Sheffield Watches. Sheffield is the storied
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• 52:54
  All right, so in the interest of moving on and not going too long
• 52:57
  tonight, when I was thinking about those cars and they're all
• 53:01
  wonderful in their own ways, it got me thinking, what are the
• 53:05
  three worst cars you've ever driven and why?
• 53:09
  Because I've driven a couple of stinkers lately.
• 53:11
  Then they haven't been pressed cars, but they've been rental
• 53:13
  cars. And you know, rental cars tend
• 53:16
  to, I think they continue to sell cars to rental outfits
• 53:19
  after they go out of, you know, Commission or out of circulation
• 53:22
  for the general public. And then as you both know too,
• 53:25
  rental cars seem to be staying in circulation a lot longer than
• 53:28
  ever before. I've had a couple of rental cars
• 53:31
  recently with with well over 50,000 miles, which is something
• 53:35
  that you would not have had back in the day.
• 53:38
  And the other thing that got me thinking about this is I got a
• 53:41
  letter in the mail the other day from Hertz.
• 53:44
  They've put me in collections for $52 over something I have no
• 53:48
  idea what. A mystery charge?
• 53:52
  You know, and we hear about all the shady shit that Hertz is
• 53:55
  doing with their their car scanners and all scanners.
• 53:58
  Yeah. So, you know, just send a send a
• 54:00
  bill for $52 to everyone whoever rented from from Hertz and
• 54:03
  that'll get you out of there. Collections, they didn't bother
• 54:05
  to reach out. You didn't get any notification,
• 54:07
  no text message, nothing. No.
• 54:10
  Collections. Well, I love that.
• 54:12
  Yeah. I love the surprise element of
• 54:14
  it where they're like we're going to do a penalty, but we're
• 54:16
  going to make it fun. Uh huh, $52, you know, I mean,
• 54:20
  tell me what it's for. Of course I'm not going to pay
• 54:22
  because I'm, I'm not. I don't know what it's for.
• 54:26
  I didn't do it. You know, I just, I, I, I
• 54:31
  collections, you know, so, so screw you, Hertz.
• 54:33
  So we're going to dump on you a little bit here today.
• 54:37
  And that got me thinking about the really shitty cars I've
• 54:40
  gotten from Hertz, including a a Tesla Model 3.
• 54:42
  I've had recent I think that had 60 or 80,000 miles on it beat
• 54:45
  all the crap. But the but two of the three
• 54:48
  worst cars I have on my list are recent rentals from from Hertz.
• 54:52
  So, but I don't want to go first, Michael, you want to take
• 54:56
  this one first three worst cars you've ever driven this.
• 54:58
  Is sounding less like the worst cars you've ever driven and like
• 55:01
  who's the worst car rental company that you've rented from?
• 55:04
  I want. To make that 52 dollars first
• 55:06
  first. Inventory, which is, yeah, Ford
• 55:10
  Fusion is undrivable. It's just, it drives it just,
• 55:15
  it's just so many things wrong with it.
• 55:17
  It's just so many things wrong. It's just it's a car that never
• 55:20
  should have been. They tried to sell those as
• 55:24
  police cars and I feel like in New York City you still see
• 55:27
  them, or did up until. Recent Fusions.
• 55:29
  The fusions. Yeah, yeah.
• 55:31
  Which was an, I mean, just, yeah, it's just everything about
• 55:35
  it. You're just like, if Weibo was
• 55:37
  around when I had to wrap up the fusion, I would have taken a
• 55:41
  Weimo. And I am not a, I am not a
• 55:43
  autonomous driving person. But Michael, they had the Aston
• 55:46
  Martin Grill, lest we forget. Do you remember that?
• 55:49
  Yes, they did. Yes, they did.
• 55:53
  I struggle with this one because there's just a lot of garbage.
• 55:57
  There's just, there's so many. And by the way, not because,
• 56:00
  well, a lot of times the cars are garbage, but they're not
• 56:04
  meant for me, if that makes sense.
• 56:06
  So I like, I like there's just a lot of just a lot of shit out
• 56:10
  there that it's just, yeah, it's it's just no fun to drive you.
• 56:14
  You look around and be like, I not even, I don't want to be
• 56:17
  seen about it because I'm not that vain.
• 56:19
  But like I'm worried I'm going to get home or this is operating
• 56:22
  safely. So what I'm hearing is it's not
• 56:26
  them, it's you. Yeah, it's totally me.
• 56:29
  I'm sorry guys. I I failed at this one because I
• 56:32
  had fun with the with the other one, obviously.
• 56:34
  But when Ryan said, Hey, what are the three worst cars you've
• 56:37
  driven? Like, there's just, if the world
• 56:40
  was a rational place, we'd all just be driving Honda Civics,
• 56:43
  right? Because they work, they get good
• 56:44
  gas mileage, they're affordable or they were affordable, like,
• 56:48
  but everything else is, you know, it either falls into a
• 56:50
  category of lust and want and, and are willing to put up with
• 56:53
  some quirks or it just turns into transportation.
• 56:56
  And that's just, that's a lot. That's a lot.
• 56:59
  I I. I defer.
• 57:01
  Yeah, well, that's. Interesting.
• 57:03
  The rest of the the brain trust. Well, it's funny that you said
• 57:06
  we'd all be driving that because I don't know if you listened to
• 57:09
  Spike's show this week, but at the end they asked Jerry
• 57:13
  Seinfeld if he wanted like what he would choose and he said a
• 57:17
  current Honda Accord just because they.
• 57:19
  Brought up pictures of the cord. Yeah, yeah.
• 57:21
  Interesting. It's.
• 57:23
  Probably a guy who's never been to a grocery store either.
• 57:25
  So like, everything mundane is probably very interesting.
• 57:29
  The novelty, right? It's a novelty.
• 57:31
  Exactly. It's.
• 57:33
  A novelty, I mean, but when you think about like, it's one of
• 57:36
  those things where it's almost circular, like he's he has this
• 57:39
  amazing collection. I can understand the intrigue of
• 57:42
  like, it's so different from anything else he has, which
• 57:46
  there are a lot of cars in that category.
• 57:47
  But yeah, he was waxing lyrical about the current Honda Accord.
• 57:51
  And the current 1 is probably the best one ever made.
• 57:53
  And yet, at least here in Denver, you hardly see them.
• 57:56
  Everyone's in a passport or a pilot or whatever.
• 57:58
  But yeah, interesting. That makes sense with the
• 58:00
  weather. It's true, but you know, Ford
• 58:02
  said something with the interest rates and just everything that's
• 58:04
  going on in the cost of cars, I think the average car now is
• 58:07
  $50,000 or more that they are planning to start building more
• 58:11
  sedans because. They're going back.
• 58:13
  Just, well, we've talked about this, everything is cyclical,
• 58:16
  right? You know, but but also factoring
• 58:19
  into that is the fact that you know, crossovers and SU VS have
• 58:21
  just have broken that $50,000 part for the first time, so.
• 58:25
  Yeah, I will say I I do lust after a neighbor of mine who
• 58:29
  moved recently had a 2 door 9090 windows, 2 door accords.
• 58:34
  Sure. Oh my God.
• 58:36
  So yeah. They really were they really?
• 58:39
  Were they were so good, just a simple like 4 speed 4 cylinder,
• 58:44
  Just a you know, if Jerry saw one of those, he'd owned one of
• 58:47
  those too. I remember when they redesigned
• 58:50
  them, I don't know if I think it was like late, early mid 90s, if
• 58:57
  that makes sense. And it was like they were.
• 59:00
  More swoopy the swoopier ones. Yeah, it was.
• 59:04
  It was like they were trying to make it look more like a luxury
• 59:08
  car. It was a huge design stuff for
• 59:10
  that. I think it was 1990 if I'm not
• 59:13
  mistaken because I went in with my you.
• 59:14
  Also had the Acura, the Acura the legend.
• 59:18
  Very regular legend. Thank you.
• 59:20
  The Legend 2 door lusted after those.
• 59:23
  Yeah, which by the way, great name for a car, the legend.
• 59:26
  I mean, come on, you're setting the bar high.
• 59:28
  But but at 1990, I remember going in with my parents, that
• 59:30
  was that 90 to 94. I think it was that that that
• 59:34
  redone car, you'd get the 492 door.
• 59:37
  I'm thinking of the 94 or 90. Five, OK.
• 59:42
  Right, if they. Really got sexy.
• 59:44
  That's what I mean. Like it was a huge leap forward.
• 59:47
  Yes, yes, and they were all teal with the gold package.
• 59:51
  Yeah. No, those are the accurate.
• 59:54
  Those are the accurate vigors, yeah.
• 59:56
  Well, and the redesigned the like early 90s or no it was.
• 1:00:02
  Mid 90s suburban redesign, like 50% of those were teal.
• 1:00:06
  You know Teal was having a moment, so let's bring.
• 1:00:08
  Teal back. If Teal was on a Porsche, we'd
• 1:00:10
  be paying a premium for it, right?
• 1:00:11
  Like. We talked about it, the auto
• 1:00:13
  show. Color.
• 1:00:14
  Color. Yeah, let's bring color to the
• 1:00:15
  world together. Absolutely.
• 1:00:16
  And let's bring simplicity back too.
• 1:00:18
  This was the era we could get a 4 cylinder or a six cylinder.
• 1:00:21
  You get a 2 door or 4 door and you got a DX and LX or if you
• 1:00:24
  were really feeling rich in EX, you know and done.
• 1:00:27
  And that was what you got, right?
• 1:00:29
  You know, I don't know simpler, simpler times well.
• 1:00:34
  We always look back on the good old days, right?
• 1:00:38
  All right, Lindsay, what do you what do you have here?
• 1:00:40
  OK, so this was a struggle for me because one of the things
• 1:00:44
  that I have noticed about myself is, you know, we're all very
• 1:00:48
  lucky. We get to drive a wide variety
• 1:00:50
  of cars. Like people are very generous
• 1:00:52
  with their keys much more, I think, than outside the car
• 1:00:56
  world. So I, I love driving so much and
• 1:01:01
  I love trying something new that it's very rare for me to drive
• 1:01:05
  something that I take it overall as a negative because there's
• 1:01:12
  something about just getting to drive a different car that I'm
• 1:01:16
  inherently, you know, looking at it in a positive light.
• 1:01:19
  So it was tricky. I came up with two and then I
• 1:01:24
  had to bring in reinforcements and ask Tori if he had any
• 1:01:29
  ideas. 2 are mine and one is his.
• 1:01:32
  He's a good what phone to home or what did what.
• 1:01:34
  They get on the Yeah, I did. AI phoned a friend and so.
• 1:01:39
  So I'll start with that one. Yeah, because he had lots of
• 1:01:42
  thoughts. So he had a GR86 at one point
• 1:01:46
  for I believe less than three months.
• 1:01:49
  He put maybe 900 miles on it, couldn't stand it and ended up
• 1:01:54
  selling it back to the dealer like before he had even put 1000
• 1:01:57
  miles on it. Interesting.
• 1:01:59
  Was this one of the early ones with the torque dip?
• 1:02:02
  I don't know that much about them.
• 1:02:04
  It was in the last couple. Of years, let's say it was, it
• 1:02:07
  was really OK. Interesting.
• 1:02:08
  So it was a newer 1. It was a new Yeah, he bought it
• 1:02:11
  new. What?
• 1:02:12
  Did he give any insight as to like was it, I don't call it an
• 1:02:15
  impulse purchase, but like what drove, what got him there to say
• 1:02:19
  yes? He was intrigued and thought he
• 1:02:22
  would enjoy it and thought it would be a fun car.
• 1:02:24
  And it turned out none of that was correct.
• 1:02:25
  So he said it had like, copious, you know, nanny aids that
• 1:02:31
  couldn't be turned off to the point where if the car sensed
• 1:02:34
  something like up ahead, it would just randomly slam the
• 1:02:38
  brakes on. And so there were multiple
• 1:02:39
  instances where he almost got rear-ended because the car
• 1:02:42
  slammed the brakes on. That's a deal killer.
• 1:02:44
  That's too. Bad.
• 1:02:45
  Yeah, that was, you know, it doesn't make you want to go
• 1:02:47
  drive around. It had poor visibility.
• 1:02:52
  It was underpowered. He said it had engine like fake
• 1:02:56
  engine noises piped into the cabin, which is, you know, for a
• 1:03:00
  car enthusiast, that's an immediate no.
• 1:03:05
  He said the rear three quarter visibility was abysmal.
• 1:03:08
  And apparently those cars come with like a track day
• 1:03:12
  experience. And the car was so bad that he
• 1:03:15
  never even took him up on it. Really.
• 1:03:18
  Really. Oh no.
• 1:03:19
  Yeah. I mean, I've driven both models,
• 1:03:23
  the the earlier car and the newer one.
• 1:03:24
  I like them both, but both woefully underpowered,
• 1:03:28
  especially the earlier. One.
• 1:03:30
  Yeah, that was. I had this this sort of torque
• 1:03:32
  dip so as you were running through the Revs it it like the
• 1:03:35
  power fell off, which is just a weird and sort of disconcerting
• 1:03:38
  feeling. That's not the way you want that
• 1:03:41
  curve to go. No, no, you know, like the GR
• 1:03:43
  Corolla is just so much better and so much quicker.
• 1:03:46
  You know, I, I just, I could never see, you know?
• 1:03:49
  Not committing to the GRE. A little bit more, right, Right.
• 1:03:52
  But that's too bad. I want to love those.
• 1:03:54
  I think they should have come out with a convertible version.
• 1:03:57
  I think that would have been a real competitor to the Miata
• 1:04:00
  because despite our complaints, it's still more powerful, right?
• 1:04:03
  Or at least was, yeah. Do you have any experience with
• 1:04:06
  the 86, the, the BRZ, or the? Well, I drove the BRZ at the
• 1:04:12
  auto show two years ago when we were doing our drives.
• 1:04:14
  That's right. And, you know, I thought it was
• 1:04:17
  fun. But again, it's like any test
• 1:04:19
  drive where it's tough to really form an opinion one way or
• 1:04:23
  another when you drive it, you know, for three or four blocks.
• 1:04:26
  Yeah, I liked that it was a manual.
• 1:04:28
  I was impressed that they had manuals available at the.
• 1:04:31
  Auto show for people to. Drive.
• 1:04:32
  Yeah, yeah, because you guys took the other manual, right?
• 1:04:35
  Right. WRXI think it was, yeah.
• 1:04:38
  So I was, you know, enamored of that.
• 1:04:42
  And again, it's I was like, oh, I get to drive something too.
• 1:04:44
  And it's a manual and, you know, the vehicle host was fun.
• 1:04:47
  So yeah, yeah. You know, it's hard to really
• 1:04:50
  get a feel for the car unless you get to spend some real time
• 1:04:52
  with it. But yeah, so that was that in
• 1:04:58
  and this is throwing it way back to probably 25 years ago.
• 1:05:01
  I got to drive a Mercedes-Benz SL500 and I believe it was the
• 1:05:06
  R3R230. Oh, so that like that peanut
• 1:05:11
  headlights? Possibly, yeah, Yeah, I don't
• 1:05:14
  remember the headlights that like that.
• 1:05:18
  Finally. But.
• 1:05:20
  Oh. You did.
• 1:05:21
  Yeah, I was. Wasn't an R129 though.
• 1:05:23
  Wasn't an R129 like the classic? No, no, it was the R230, I
• 1:05:30
  believe. And I was so excited to drive
• 1:05:33
  this car and it was a hardtop convertible.
• 1:05:36
  And, you know, I was just jazzed and it was a friend's car and I
• 1:05:42
  was driving down the road and I was found myself very baffled
• 1:05:46
  and confused because it was driving just like an 85 Bronco,
• 1:05:50
  which is fine if you're driving an 85 Bronco, but not if you're
• 1:05:53
  driving a fancy, you know, Mercedes-Benz convertible.
• 1:05:57
  So it was all got to pay on that one.
• 1:05:59
  Sorry it. Was all over the place.
• 1:06:03
  I mean, actually, I realized. Moving around or.
• 1:06:07
  Well, and I probably need to refine, I need to refine my
• 1:06:11
  description because it's not fair to a Bronco really.
• 1:06:14
  I just, I was like, how do you, how do you succinctly describe
• 1:06:19
  and contrast that the driving experience was not what you
• 1:06:22
  would expect given what I was driving?
• 1:06:26
  The steering was really vague and the ride was really rough
• 1:06:31
  and it was hard to tell like where the car was on the road.
• 1:06:35
  And it just, it wasn't the luxurious driving, you know,
• 1:06:39
  luxurious engaged driving experience that I would have
• 1:06:42
  expected from what the car was and the way it looked and the
• 1:06:45
  brand and all that. But again, it was an
• 1:06:48
  interesting. I was like, this is wild.
• 1:06:50
  I did not see this coming, No. No, that era of Mercedes-Benz,
• 1:06:54
  at least for me, is probably my least favorite era.
• 1:06:57
  And there's just something about, so I don't know what is
• 1:06:59
  that like the 2003, the like 2008 or something?
• 1:07:02
  Well, I was going to say they were Chrysler.
• 1:07:04
  That was. Daimler, There's a lot.
• 1:07:06
  Of Chrysler infusion in there, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:08
  Yeah. So that that was probably part
• 1:07:11
  of it, that it wasn't, you know, a true Mercedes experience or
• 1:07:15
  whatever, but sure. Sure.
• 1:07:17
  Yeah, much. Definitely you, Lindsay.
• 1:07:19
  I had a friend who was so excited to get a first nice car,
• 1:07:22
  you know, out of college, whatever, and got AC220 or
• 1:07:26
  whatever it was at the same time.
• 1:07:27
  I remember. Getting in, my God.
• 1:07:28
  My God, this isn't half as nice as my, you know, a four that I
• 1:07:31
  had at the time. I was really disappointed and.
• 1:07:33
  It's like so close. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:37
  Or not. Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  And I just, you know, at the time, I mean, like driving a
• 1:07:39
  convertible, I didn't have any. I didn't have access to that in
• 1:07:42
  my daily life. And so I was like, I just felt
• 1:07:45
  like the coolest girl, you know, driving down the road and then
• 1:07:49
  not. Yeah, no.
• 1:07:51
  That's a That's a boy. They look like you're facing,
• 1:07:53
  you look so sad and they're like why is this beautiful lady so
• 1:07:56
  sad in her beautiful car and like it just.
• 1:07:59
  I'm like 0 out of 10 do not recommend.
• 1:08:02
  You know, that is we talk about malaise era cars, but I think
• 1:08:05
  like Mercedes-Benz was killing in the 70s, in the early 80s,
• 1:08:08
  right? I mean, those cars are great.
• 1:08:09
  They're still around, but that was the malaise era for.
• 1:08:12
  And what's funny is it looked great, like I loved the design
• 1:08:16
  and, you know, so it was even, it was just shocking all around.
• 1:08:20
  Yeah, yeah. Weird era for Mercedes.
• 1:08:24
  Yeah. OK.
• 1:08:27
  So my third choice is it's a unique to me bad car because I
• 1:08:32
  love these and I know that they are highly regarded and they're
• 1:08:36
  sort of thought of as like the peak, you know, enduring example
• 1:08:41
  of this car. But the only one that I've ever
• 1:08:45
  driven of this model of these, it turned out it had been
• 1:08:50
  totally neglected, not maintained at all.
• 1:08:53
  So it drove again. It was all over the road, like
• 1:08:56
  the steering, you know, was numb, suspension was shot like
• 1:09:01
  again, it was one of those like the person I was driving it
• 1:09:03
  with. We kept looking at each other
• 1:09:05
  going like this cannot be the car that everybody talks about
• 1:09:09
  like something's not right. An E39-M5.
• 1:09:14
  Really. Oh.
• 1:09:15
  Yeah, which? Oh yeah, I've experienced that.
• 1:09:17
  A. 100 And I love them. And I mean, everybody knows I
• 1:09:21
  love BMWs, you know, like I, I, I went in as a friendly
• 1:09:25
  audience. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:27
  Yeah. And I was so excited to drive
• 1:09:28
  this car. And it was in beautiful cosmetic
• 1:09:31
  shape. And it was the red, you know, of
• 1:09:33
  those, which is such a classic car.
• 1:09:35
  Like, I love that body style. I see them on the road, I get so
• 1:09:39
  excited. And it was the red with the
• 1:09:41
  black interior. Yeah.
• 1:09:43
  And I was driving it to possibly buy it and again it was like,
• 1:09:47
  what is? Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 1:09:50
  So that's a. Lot don't meet your heroes
• 1:09:52
  moments because you're like, oh, this is going to be fun.
• 1:09:54
  And then you think about, oh, I could modify it and like just
• 1:09:57
  bring it up 2/10 And then you drive it and you're just like,
• 1:10:01
  this is boring. Well, this one was like, this
• 1:10:05
  was just a poor example of the news, it turned out.
• 1:10:09
  But, you know, but it was like, it was comical because of how
• 1:10:13
  highly regarded those cars are. And then to find one that was
• 1:10:17
  not representing the brand well, Yeah.
• 1:10:19
  Yeah, that's a car that I think more than most cars really
• 1:10:23
  depends on on condition. And when I say the word tune, I
• 1:10:27
  don't mean that it's been tuned, but just sort of the state of
• 1:10:29
  tune, right? Yeah, I've driven a couple.
• 1:10:32
  I've driven a really exceptional example and one, it was still
• 1:10:35
  relatively new, but that had been beat.
• 1:10:37
  It was a Michigan car in 2000. It was the blue color and I
• 1:10:40
  didn't get, that was the first time I'd been in E39.
• 1:10:44
  I had been in a 540A dine in and some other, you know, 90 nines
• 1:10:48
  and that had torque and this car didn't have the torque that, you
• 1:10:51
  know, the dine in 540 had. Yeah, I was a little
• 1:10:55
  disappointed too. But I think when those cars are
• 1:10:58
  dialed in, they're pretty, they're sublime.
• 1:11:00
  But yeah, the. Problem is sublime.
• 1:11:02
  It's. Gotta be dialed in right
• 1:11:04
  They're. They're they're labor intensive.
• 1:11:07
  And I think that's what's so interesting is like when you
• 1:11:09
  talk to people that have a good example, like they just wax on
• 1:11:13
  and on about how amazing they are.
• 1:11:15
  And I like, I think that is one of the most timeless designs,
• 1:11:19
  especially because the Bengal era followed it.
• 1:11:22
  So the contrast was even more, you know, highlighting how good
• 1:11:26
  the E39 design is. So no, it's that's more of like
• 1:11:31
  it makes me laugh to look back on how how crazy that one was.
• 1:11:37
  Right, Right. No, it's Sarah.
• 1:11:39
  That's a again a brave choice for the worst cars you've ever
• 1:11:41
  driven. No.
• 1:11:43
  It's true, it's true. But I had, you know, I was
• 1:11:46
  fortunate of my dad bought a, a 97 6 speed 540 and it brand new
• 1:11:54
  and it it ran. It ran and 2-3 years later
• 1:11:57
  replaced it with a 01 automatic 540.
• 1:12:01
  And it was just like it just it just it lost it lost its soul.
• 1:12:08
  Yeah, you were isolated, but you were kind of like, to your
• 1:12:10
  point, numb about like just just there was just you drove it like
• 1:12:15
  you would drive a a Camry, you know, and and and and and the M
• 1:12:20
  fives right to your point, like if they're maintained properly,
• 1:12:24
  but like you got to do the things you can't just like you
• 1:12:28
  can't just let it sit. It has to be you have to do the
• 1:12:30
  suspension, you have to do the right type of intake.
• 1:12:33
  You know, you got to put a little work into it, but they
• 1:12:36
  have potential. But unfortunately out the box or
• 1:12:39
  if you get one that's heavily used, you know, worn down, they
• 1:12:43
  they're just the juice isn't worth the squeeze sometimes,
• 1:12:46
  unfortunately. Yeah.
• 1:12:47
  But they are beautiful and they hold up.
• 1:12:49
  They are. The interiors hold up
• 1:12:50
  beautifully. Yeah, I'll never forget when
• 1:12:52
  that car was new at the Chicago Auto show, and I guess it would
• 1:12:55
  have been 99 or 2000 or whatever and sitting in one and it was a
• 1:12:59
  dark blue with a camel leather interior.
• 1:13:01
  And I just thought gave me sort of purpose to like go out and
• 1:13:04
  get a job and graduate, you know, college.
• 1:13:06
  And I guess I graduated college at that point.
• 1:13:08
  But, you know, it was just it really it, it, it was something
• 1:13:12
  to aspire to. It was really special.
• 1:13:15
  Yeah, you're like this right here, the little.
• 1:13:18
  Steering wheel and. The that was, I don't know if
• 1:13:20
  anybody remembers the the BMW films that they made with Clive.
• 1:13:24
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:13:25
  I have DVDs. I can send you an actual DVD
• 1:13:28
  copy. Yeah, I think I, I have one
• 1:13:31
  around here too, like the DVD of the series.
• 1:13:34
  And that was the one that he drove.
• 1:13:36
  That was also the one that they made the ad where there was a
• 1:13:40
  big like cruise ship and it's on the water and then the car
• 1:13:43
  drives by on the water. Oh, I.
• 1:13:46
  Don't remember. That remember that one, it was
• 1:13:48
  that era M5 or five series. So you know, there's there's a
• 1:13:53
  lot of like mystique and magic around that one on top of how
• 1:13:57
  much people love them. So it's even funnier.
• 1:14:00
  Chris Bengal, you know, reared his ugly head and all went to
• 1:14:03
  shit, right? God love him.
• 1:14:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, although lost his.
• 1:14:08
  Heart. That M5 that that that the the
• 1:14:12
  car that succeeded the E39 was on Haggerty's bull market list.
• 1:14:17
  So I know that's what was. So yeah, talk about a nice
• 1:14:20
  callback. With, with, with, with, with bad
• 1:14:22
  rod bearings, all the. Time but AV 10.
• 1:14:26
  AV 10. No, they did good.
• 1:14:28
  They and Audi, like they stepped up like Audi's doing V 10s, BMW
• 1:14:32
  doing V 10s. I don't want to say it's a
• 1:14:36
  bygone error because who knows what's going to happen in the
• 1:14:38
  future, but it was like, I mean, no, no, no passenger car was
• 1:14:42
  having V 10s yeah, ever. Until they're like, yeah, just
• 1:14:46
  here, we'll just stick this thing in here and see what
• 1:14:48
  happens. But.
• 1:14:51
  They did it. All right, all right, I'm going.
• 1:14:53
  To make this quick, I have 3 but these are going to be a bit of a
• 1:14:56
  let down after the E39-M5 being one of the worst cars you've
• 1:14:59
  ever driven. So I'm going to go with any
• 1:15:02
  Chevy Malibu of recent vintage. So I'm talking 2003 or 2007 to
• 1:15:08
  present, which they still make and it's basically the same damn
• 1:15:11
  car. I've had several of these as
• 1:15:13
  rental cars over the years. I was I knew they were slow.
• 1:15:16
  I was shocked to find out they are the base model.
• 1:15:18
  The rental car spec are 122 to 124 horsepower depending on
• 1:15:22
  trim. So if you know you're you're
• 1:15:24
  you're getting spending, you get that extra 2 horsepower.
• 1:15:27
  These are they're still very popular.
• 1:15:29
  Hertz again, Hertz, Especially Hertz.
• 1:15:34
  A theme here which hurts. Well, there's no car that hurts
• 1:15:37
  quite like a modern Chevy Malibu, because this is a
• 1:15:40
  throwback. It's a big car, woefully
• 1:15:42
  underpowered. Again, you know, you know, they
• 1:15:44
  all smell like weed when you rent them from Hertz.
• 1:15:47
  Wow. And you know, they still have
• 1:15:49
  like the, you know, the, the old school sort of infotainment and
• 1:15:52
  everything. But so if you're starting out
• 1:15:54
  with a big car with 122 horsepower and then you're at
• 1:15:57
  Denver, that car's already down to 100, right?
• 1:16:00
  Just when you pull it out of the garage and as you go out.
• 1:16:02
  Sounds like a traffic hazard more than anything.
• 1:16:04
  It really is. I had a buddy in one and we
• 1:16:06
  thought that it was broken and then they gave us another one
• 1:16:09
  and realized it was just as slow.
• 1:16:11
  I mean. It's just not.
• 1:16:13
  Broken. Interesting.
• 1:16:15
  Just a piece of junk, you know, I mean, they're OK on the
• 1:16:17
  highway once you're moving. They're, you know, they're kind
• 1:16:20
  of old school and, and comfortable and all that, but
• 1:16:21
  terrible, terrible cars. Momentum and it sort of builds
• 1:16:24
  on its. Downhill coming back from hell,
• 1:16:27
  no brakes. It's got to be one of the
• 1:16:29
  slowest cars, you know, sold, right.
• 1:16:32
  And I think 2025 was actually the last year they finally put
• 1:16:36
  it to took it out of its misery. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:40
  Another one that that it actually has surprisingly a bit
• 1:16:44
  more power, but just a strange car.
• 1:16:46
  And then in its its first version, one of the ugliest cars
• 1:16:48
  in modern of the modern era. And that's the Jeep Compass.
• 1:16:53
  I don't know if either one of you have had the misery of
• 1:16:55
  driving a Jeep Compass, especially totally one rental.
• 1:16:59
  You know, they will force that thing on you, you know, if it
• 1:17:03
  kills them, maybe. God, are they bad.
• 1:17:06
  So ugly. 158 horsepower though. So, you know, kind of a muscle
• 1:17:10
  car. It compares.
• 1:17:11
  The good news is, the good news is that Mother Earth is taking
• 1:17:14
  those things back because they rusted like Swiss cheese.
• 1:17:16
  So like they've been absorbed back into the Earth because?
• 1:17:19
  It's funny. They they broke, rotted and so
• 1:17:22
  much for a yard and then all that just kind of reabsorbed
• 1:17:24
  into the the into the earth. Yep, Yep, absolutely.
• 1:17:28
  You know self recycling, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:31
  They they. Are they are 100% recyclable?
• 1:17:35
  I should probably just quit while I'm ahead, but my third
• 1:17:38
  choice for this was a car that we owned 2 of as a kid, but the
• 1:17:42
  first Gen. Chrysler minivan.
• 1:17:45
  We had the four cylinders. You could get a six cylinder and
• 1:17:47
  I think it was a difference of like 121 versus like 140
• 1:17:50
  horsepower if you upgraded to the six.
• 1:17:52
  The Pentastar I think it was. But the thing that really killed
• 1:17:55
  those was that they had a three speed automatic transmission. 3
• 1:18:00
  speed. 3 speed and this was up up to the early 90s.
• 1:18:04
  I think it had the three speed or maybe it got the four speed
• 1:18:06
  of 90. Did you have one with wood
• 1:18:09
  paneling on the side? We didn't because.
• 1:18:11
  The town and country. Like like that.
• 1:18:13
  No, we had the first one we had was the base and then we had the
• 1:18:16
  middle one, which I think was the LX, kind of like the Honda
• 1:18:20
  model again. And then there was 1, I don't
• 1:18:21
  know if it was the the OR we had the SC.
• 1:18:23
  That's what it was. That was the sporty one that had
• 1:18:25
  the rally wheels. But I had a friend at school
• 1:18:28
  whose parents had a had a town and country and it had the wood.
• 1:18:32
  It had the Infinity sound system.
• 1:18:34
  Michael Infinity. You know, I know.
• 1:18:37
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:18:37
  Different kind of class. Cherokees.
• 1:18:39
  Yeah, it was all of Yeah, with their little equalizer, the 5A.
• 1:18:42
  Little bit like it was like A5 band or something.
• 1:18:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tiny little, you know, chiclet
• 1:18:47
  buttons, but yeah, that was I'm gonna.
• 1:18:50
  Push back on you on that because that literally see that's Lee
• 1:18:53
  Iacocca that saved Chrysler from literally dissolving as a
• 1:18:58
  company. So.
• 1:18:59
  Thank you for. Keeping a lot of people employed
• 1:19:02
  and keeping Chrysler to where the through line here is and
• 1:19:06
  without you buying that minivan, yeah, then Lindsay can't have
• 1:19:10
  that shitty experience later on with, you know, the the the SL,
• 1:19:15
  because Chrysler would have been about right been around to be
• 1:19:17
  bought by Mercedes if they didn't build that minivans.
• 1:19:21
  So that's right. And what her?
• 1:19:23
  Bad. Her bad driving experience is
• 1:19:25
  your fault. That's your family had a fault
• 1:19:28
  and do need to give credit. Credit where credit's due.
• 1:19:31
  Doug Demiro can confirm this. They did do for a year or two a
• 1:19:35
  4 cylinder turbo, and you could also get a manual transmission
• 1:19:40
  for a couple of years. So the rare bird is the manual
• 1:19:43
  transmission turbo. I think it was a Mitsubishi
• 1:19:46
  turbo. Of course, this was the day, you
• 1:19:48
  know the era of the Starion and you know all that crossover.
• 1:19:52
  But at the time it wasn't a bad car.
• 1:19:55
  But in retrospect, it was a truly bad car.
• 1:19:57
  But important. Car.
• 1:20:00
  They had it was the Dodge Caravan.
• 1:20:01
  And what was the Chrysler equivalent called?
• 1:20:03
  Voyager or the Plymouth Voyager? Plymouth Voyager.
• 1:20:06
  Chrysler. Chrysler Town Country, it was
• 1:20:10
  just the upscale because Chrysler and I think Plymouth
• 1:20:14
  were sold at the same dealerships.
• 1:20:16
  Dodge was its own thing, right? You know it was.
• 1:20:20
  Well, and what's funny about those is they were very popular
• 1:20:24
  when they came out again because the the minivan shape and
• 1:20:28
  concept. They created the minivan
• 1:20:29
  segment. There was not a minivan segment
• 1:20:32
  that. Right.
• 1:20:33
  And so you could get a station wagon, which was not ideal
• 1:20:36
  because you have the kids that are in the back where you're
• 1:20:38
  facing seats the. Station wagon Lava station
• 1:20:42
  wagon. I almost picked that as my my BS
• 1:20:45
  list because I love a station wagon.
• 1:20:47
  Wagons are good. We're not going to get to it
• 1:20:49
  tonight, but I got to tell you about my adventures in the new
• 1:20:52
  Subaru Forest or wilderness that I drove up about 3/4 of the way
• 1:20:55
  to the peak of Pike's Peak before.
• 1:20:57
  I want to hear. About that around, but that was
• 1:20:59
  a throwback because that was the probably the first car since a
• 1:21:02
  Chrysler minivan that I've been in that had all that glass and
• 1:21:06
  it was kind of a beautiful, a beautiful thing.
• 1:21:08
  But yeah, I'm so, you know, I don't know if we always
• 1:21:11
  appreciate how good cars are now, right?
• 1:21:14
  And we've come a long way from 1984 in this well.
• 1:21:19
  How easy they are. You brought up the Land Rover
• 1:21:21
  and people were spending really big money back then, but they
• 1:21:24
  also people don't put up with the kind of BS and this is not
• 1:21:29
  that back then was better, but like people were buying
• 1:21:32
  expensive Range Rovers and if it broke, they weren't that upset.
• 1:21:35
  You go and you spend 100 plus $1000 on a Range Rover now and
• 1:21:38
  you know you want to light the whole town on fire.
• 1:21:40
  If we put up with a lot more back then for Lindsay to your
• 1:21:44
  point being seen in the in the I got here car like I made a car.
• 1:21:49
  So. Right.
• 1:21:49
  People were willing to tolerate a less than stellar maintenance
• 1:21:53
  record as long as they were seen around town in a car, maybe.
• 1:21:56
  Migrating. Maybe it didn't.
• 1:21:58
  You know, right? You know it was.
• 1:22:00
  Still parked in your driveway. So if someone knew you made it,
• 1:22:03
  even if it never left your driveway.
• 1:22:04
  Yeah, yeah. I'm not stuck on the side of the
• 1:22:07
  road, I'm parked here intentionally.
• 1:22:10
  I just thought of an alternate on my worst cars list and it is
• 1:22:15
  one of the cars I learned how to drive in.
• 1:22:18
  It was my mom's car at the time, an Oldsmobile custom cruiser,
• 1:22:22
  station wagon, full size station wagon.
• 1:22:27
  But I will, I will always be grateful to that car because it
• 1:22:30
  was the same length or longer than a Suburban.
• 1:22:33
  So, you know, it really makes you learn how to drive in
• 1:22:37
  parallel park and be aware of the size of your car.
• 1:22:40
  But man was that thing just a not a good way to drive it.
• 1:22:45
  Was like driving in a parka lounger, like he was comfy.
• 1:22:49
  It was flow. He didn't have the sure.
• 1:22:51
  You were smoking. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:22:54
  Or no, this one might have had like naugahyde seeds.
• 1:22:58
  So be careful. Where you ash?
• 1:23:00
  Yeah. But yeah, I mean, and those
• 1:23:04
  things are comically bad almost because you step on the gas and
• 1:23:07
  the tail goes. Oh yeah, yeah, cars just don't
• 1:23:11
  drive like that anymore. As safe as a tad.
• 1:23:14
  You could run over your neighbor, your neighbor's house,
• 1:23:17
  the mailbox like you will be just fine.
• 1:23:21
  Absolutely. And it was middle grey, which
• 1:23:23
  meant everything was middle grey.
• 1:23:25
  Like inside, outside, really just.
• 1:23:29
  Look like concrete. Just color concrete.
• 1:23:34
  That's like few cars give me PTSD like almost none and that
• 1:23:38
  one I still like decades later. I'm still just like but now but.
• 1:23:43
  Now as a mother, imagine all the shit you could fit not just in
• 1:23:46
  the in the back seat, but in the in the cargo area and you'd be
• 1:23:50
  like, that's a good Costco. Run six more kids, you know.
• 1:23:53
  Yeah, that's a good Costco. Think of how many, think of how
• 1:23:56
  many Porsche parts or a whole Porsche.
• 1:23:58
  You could probably fit a fit a 350.
• 1:24:00
  So you could easily put a 350, you know, 1800 in motor in the
• 1:24:03
  back of that. So you could, well, you could
• 1:24:05
  actually use that as a parts runner.
• 1:24:07
  I solved for that with something that's actually enjoyable to
• 1:24:10
  drive, and that's the F-150. There you go.
• 1:24:13
  There you go. V8 Lindsey.
• 1:24:15
  Was that a turbo 6? That one's AV6 Turbo.
• 1:24:18
  Okay, okay, because all those cars had V eights like that big
• 1:24:22
  station wagon. You forget, I thought you.
• 1:24:24
  Were asking about the truck, I don't.
• 1:24:26
  Know the truck, but I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel like all the
• 1:24:29
  yeah. That Olds will probably had a it
• 1:24:32
  probably had a yeah, like a a smaller visa or V8 Yeah it.
• 1:24:36
  Probably. I mean it was the.
• 1:24:37
  Same engine that's in that Range Rover we were talking about.
• 1:24:40
  I'd be shocked if that one had AV 8.
• 1:24:42
  It was not OK. Yeah, it was underpowered.
• 1:24:45
  Some straight six or something. All right, well, we should move
• 1:24:47
  on. We should move on.
• 1:24:48
  And we are at an hour and 23 minutes.
• 1:24:50
  So we'll we'll try to keep this brief.
• 1:24:52
  But a couple of things I wanted to mention.
• 1:24:54
  Thank you to everyone who sent this in the Porsche 718.
• 1:24:59
  So the boxer and the Cayman, they wrap up their current
• 1:25:02
  generation, the 982 with the best sales year of the whole
• 1:25:05
  run. So this is a car that came out I
• 1:25:07
  think in 17. It is now 2026, so 9 year run.
• 1:25:13
  But this last year, 2025, I think they're still making maybe
• 1:25:16
  just the the 4R s s and the Spyder R s s.
• 1:25:19
  But but this this past year, 2025, they've, they've sold more
• 1:25:23
  than they've ever sold. And I think this is in part sort
• 1:25:27
  of reaction to this threat that they had that had been living
• 1:25:31
  for this for the last couple years of it going electric.
• 1:25:33
  Of course, those of us who have these cars, you know, we're kind
• 1:25:37
  of hoping they wouldn't sell and.
• 1:25:39
  Stick to their guns worth. That much more, But I thought
• 1:25:41
  that was very interesting. You know, Speaking of which
• 1:25:47
  coming out in the forums and some of the other, you know,
• 1:25:49
  dark corners of the Internet are that there are some owners with
• 1:25:53
  the 718 GT 4 Rs. So again, this is the sort of
• 1:25:56
  the top of the this is the top of the line came in.
• 1:25:58
  So you've got the standard cars, the two liter, the 2.5 liter,
• 1:26:03
  you know, then you've got the GT4 and the GT4RS.
• 1:26:05
  Certain cars were delivered that had under torqued or loose
• 1:26:09
  drivetrain bolts. And supposedly they were all
• 1:26:13
  cars that were built at Osnabrook.
• 1:26:15
  And I'm sure I'm butchering that pronunciation, but this is they,
• 1:26:20
  they call this the VW plant. So apparently with this demand,
• 1:26:24
  that meant that some of these cars weren't being built at
• 1:26:27
  Zufenhausen, but they were in fact going to this overflow
• 1:26:30
  plant that also makes Volkswagens.
• 1:26:33
  And so that has been a rude surprise to some folks, which I
• 1:26:38
  guess brings me to the question, is it important to you where
• 1:26:42
  your Porsche is made? So this happened earlier in the
• 1:26:45
  17187 eighteen run as well where some of the cars were made at,
• 1:26:50
  let's call them off site locations.
• 1:26:52
  Would you be disappointed? Factors.
• 1:26:55
  Right, right, right. I mean, you know, I mean this is
• 1:26:57
  this is a tale as all this time, right.
• 1:26:59
  Some of these cars were, you know, well, well, I mean, you
• 1:27:02
  know, some of the what is it? The G wagon I think at least for
• 1:27:05
  a long time was made in in Austria, right.
• 1:27:07
  Would you be if the G Wagon wasn't still is OK, so still
• 1:27:11
  still? I can't speak to the electric, I
• 1:27:13
  don't know if the electric ones are, but I but every other G
• 1:27:16
  wagon since the dawn of time has been made in Austria.
• 1:27:19
  OK, right. Because of Steyr, Pook or
• 1:27:21
  whatever the. I don't, I don't, I couldn't
• 1:27:24
  tell you why, but I again, and maybe even the electric ones are
• 1:27:28
  too. But every other G wagon since
• 1:27:30
  the beginning has been made in Austria and to this day, and
• 1:27:32
  continue to be. And I guess you can, you can
• 1:27:35
  bring this down to like, does it matter if it's even made in
• 1:27:37
  Germany, right? I mean, you know, and I bring
• 1:27:41
  that up because, you know, how many Mercedes or BMW's are made
• 1:27:43
  in the States now, right? Is this, have we transcended
• 1:27:46
  this Alabama, right? You know, South Carolina, South
• 1:27:49
  Carolina, is it or? Yeah, Ardenberg.
• 1:27:50
  Yes, North. Carolina Barnburg, North
• 1:27:52
  Carolina. This is just the crossovers I
• 1:27:56
  mean. Is this a throwback to the the
• 1:27:58
  the days when, you know, there was a Van Nuys plant here in LA
• 1:28:01
  making Camaros and they're like, you know, you never want a
• 1:28:04
  Monday car or a Friday car, right?
• 1:28:06
  I mean, I think this is, I think what you, what you saw
• 1:28:10
  interesting about Porsche was they were down for the year,
• 1:28:12
  especially with their China stuff.
• 1:28:14
  But to your point, Ryan, you know, that Model 7 eighteens
• 1:28:17
  were up, you know, with the at least in the first half of the
• 1:28:20
  year, the thought that they was going away.
• 1:28:23
  And so probably to meet demand, maybe they were a little quicker
• 1:28:26
  to get it through the line that maybe they normally would have
• 1:28:29
  been if it had a cadence or it had, you know, it didn't have
• 1:28:32
  like an end date or an expiration date, so to speak.
• 1:28:34
  And then they revamped the whole thing and said, just kidding,
• 1:28:37
  we're going to, you know, we're going to, we're going to go back
• 1:28:39
  on that. So I don't, I think this is a
• 1:28:41
  fluke personally. I think this is the, you know,
• 1:28:45
  this is one of those things. Now, I have heard stories of
• 1:28:48
  like a lot of those Volkswagens, not just the historical stuff,
• 1:28:52
  but even more recent stuff, the stuff that's made in Germany has
• 1:28:55
  an actual different assembly than the stuff that's made in
• 1:28:58
  Mexico specifically for Volkswagens.
• 1:29:01
  Yeah, yeah. And that just may be the way the
• 1:29:03
  plants laid out and etcetera. But I think the larger question
• 1:29:08
  is now that the the Maroney label or the sticker, you know,
• 1:29:11
  the window stickers, it's, you know, Maroney label is a formal
• 1:29:14
  name for it. Does anybody even look about
• 1:29:17
  where the final assembly occurred?
• 1:29:18
  So Ryan, to your point, if the marketplace looks at that and
• 1:29:22
  someone actually starts to point it out on a bring a trailer or
• 1:29:25
  whatever, is anybody going to blanch at it being not from
• 1:29:31
  Stuttgart or wherever? The 350 sixes, right?
• 1:29:36
  There were cars that were made at I'm going to mess this up.
• 1:29:39
  There was a separate plant that that made 9 twelves and 3:50
• 1:29:42
  sixes, right? That wasn't, wasn't the Porsche
• 1:29:45
  plant and it's it's escaping me now.
• 1:29:47
  And I don't know if those cars are considered lesser, but they
• 1:29:50
  are considered different, right? Yeah.
• 1:29:52
  You know. Yeah, because they talk about,
• 1:29:54
  oh, this one was built here. This one was built.
• 1:29:56
  Here, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this group was built,
• 1:29:58
  Yeah. As soon as we hang up here, I'm
• 1:30:00
  going to remember the name. But I mean, that's something,
• 1:30:02
  you know, in the in the grand, in the, in the in the row book,
• 1:30:05
  when we do the descriptions, that's that's something we weave
• 1:30:07
  into the narrative. You know, it's, it's part of the
• 1:30:09
  story, I guess, if nothing else. And that leads me to the final
• 1:30:12
  thing we'll talk about. There's so much we didn't get
• 1:30:14
  to, but we're already at an hour and a half, which I think is
• 1:30:16
  some sort of record for a crew show, which is a good sign.
• 1:30:18
  But now that 7 eighteens, right? Even a base 718, you know, is,
• 1:30:25
  is, you know, $90,000 with a few options should Porsche come out
• 1:30:29
  with a car that slots below the 718.
• 1:30:32
  So obviously when, you know, was it 99 or 2000 when the Boxster
• 1:30:36
  came out, it was a $40,000 car, right?
• 1:30:40
  And of course, maybe when you factor into inflation, it's not
• 1:30:42
  that different from $90,000 now. But is it time to bring back a
• 1:30:46
  924 or, you know, something in the spirit of the original
• 1:30:50
  Boxster, right? There's so much.
• 1:30:52
  Crossover anymore need. Yeah, Porsche has gotten so
• 1:30:56
  expensive. I know when the boxer first came
• 1:30:59
  out, it got a lot of, you know, proverbial side eye from people
• 1:31:03
  going like, well, it's the poor man's, you know, Porsche and
• 1:31:07
  fill in XYZ. But you know, and looking at it
• 1:31:11
  now, there are people kind of coming around to going like
• 1:31:14
  that's going to be the next big thing in a lot of ways, or it's
• 1:31:18
  something that's still accessible.
• 1:31:20
  You know, you can pick them up and get a good deal.
• 1:31:23
  So I think it made the brand accessible to a lot more people,
• 1:31:27
  obviously, because it was more affordable.
• 1:31:30
  So I think the question is like, is that what Porsche wants or
• 1:31:33
  does it want to maintain the exclusivity of the?
• 1:31:35
  Current. Pricing does.
• 1:31:37
  Yeah, they're selling everyone they make right so.
• 1:31:39
  Yeah. So I mean, in their mind,
• 1:31:42
  outside of like maybe we can sell more cars and make more
• 1:31:45
  money, it depends on what they want for the brand.
• 1:31:48
  But it definitely allowed. Like I knew people that bought
• 1:31:52
  boxers and they were so excited that they were able to have a
• 1:31:56
  Porsche and participate and buy into this brand.
• 1:32:00
  That is a big deal and was a huge, again, like go back to
• 1:32:02
  status symbol like that was a big achievement at the time
• 1:32:07
  because it had seemed unattainable until those came
• 1:32:09
  out. Yeah.
• 1:32:10
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and I think, you know,
• 1:32:13
  going back to the factory question, unless there is a like
• 1:32:17
  where everybody knows what the factory is, I don't care where
• 1:32:20
  the car is built. I just want to know that they're
• 1:32:22
  building it correctly so you don't end up with issues like
• 1:32:24
  what is happening now. Yeah, I mean, call me crazy.
• 1:32:29
  Yeah, yeah. No, I want a car with a
• 1:32:30
  drivetrain. Doesn't, you know, fall apart.
• 1:32:32
  But. I mean, I feel like I might be
• 1:32:34
  asking. At least, at least under
• 1:32:35
  warranty, so long as it's still under.
• 1:32:37
  Warranty. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:38
  Yeah, I think, I unfortunately think we've passed the era of
• 1:32:41
  affordability. I mean, what are they talking
• 1:32:43
  about now? The, the, the average new car,
• 1:32:45
  the the new MSRP is over 50,000 on average.
• 1:32:49
  And then you, what do they call it ATP, actual transaction price
• 1:32:54
  is in, you know, for new cars is in the high 40s, you know, so,
• 1:32:59
  so that is the new, you know, the, the, I don't know where
• 1:33:02
  Porsche could be much below where it's at now, because that
• 1:33:08
  90 is the new 40 or 50, you know what I mean, going back 30
• 1:33:12
  years. And so, you know, it's just
• 1:33:16
  nothing's getting cheaper. And, and you know, we're not
• 1:33:19
  going to get into politics and inflation and all the rest of
• 1:33:21
  it. But I just, I don't know that
• 1:33:23
  there's, there's no room because when you can go buy a Camry or
• 1:33:26
  something that it's $50,000. I mean, list ID buzz is the, is
• 1:33:29
  the perfect example, right? Interesting car.
• 1:33:32
  I I think a lot of people like it, at least here in California,
• 1:33:35
  everybody turns their head when they see one and we can argue
• 1:33:38
  about the range anxiety, but the moment they see it's $70,000,
• 1:33:42
  they're like, and they haven't sold.
• 1:33:44
  I mean, they're sitting on they, they're literally not going to
• 1:33:46
  build an ID buzz for all of 2026 because they have too many to
• 1:33:50
  sell. So proportion to try and move
• 1:33:52
  down. I don't want to say down market,
• 1:33:54
  but but quote UN quote more affordable.
• 1:33:56
  I don't know if there's, I don't think there's as much space
• 1:33:58
  there as we think there is because they're just, they're
• 1:34:01
  just not, you know, you're, you're buying fifty $60,000
• 1:34:03
  Camrys. That's it, that's it.
• 1:34:05
  And what's in it for Porsche? Because, you know, everything I
• 1:34:07
  hear from my sources say that Porsche really wants to align
• 1:34:11
  themselves more with Ferrari, right, as far as price points
• 1:34:14
  and all that. So.
• 1:34:14
  Well, that's Ferrari's got the best margins.
• 1:34:17
  Yeah, I think Ferrari's margins are, I shit you not something
• 1:34:19
  like 30% or I mean, they, they they have to report it on their
• 1:34:23
  at least their gross margins are on their their annual, you know,
• 1:34:25
  their quarterly reports and their margins are like, you're
• 1:34:28
  lucky at 4 GM and most car companies are in high single
• 1:34:32
  digit, low double digit margins. Ferrari's the envy of the world
• 1:34:36
  at like 20 or whatever it is 2030%.
• 1:34:38
  Like you can go and look at their 10K or whatever, but yeah,
• 1:34:42
  yeah, you just, you just can't. And unfortunately there's just
• 1:34:44
  there's just no room, which which is a larger economic
• 1:34:48
  issue. But yeah, would we all love
• 1:34:50
  something that was more obtainable?
• 1:34:53
  And Lizzy, to your great point of aspirational, but but still
• 1:34:57
  feel achievable as the aspiration rather than it just
• 1:35:00
  be another thing. You see a poster on a wall or
• 1:35:02
  someone else driving or you, you know, you watch a YouTube video
• 1:35:06
  and, and unfortunately, some people feel like they'll,
• 1:35:08
  they'll never get there and that that's, I hope we can get out of
• 1:35:12
  that mindset. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:15
  And I think at the end of the day, I'm not really craving a,
• 1:35:18
  you know, a modern day 924, even necessary 914.
• 1:35:21
  So you know, Oh, no, no. 9/14 9:14 Six is a hell of a lot of
• 1:35:28
  fun. No, I know.
• 1:35:30
  Well, I've never driven one. I'm sure they are amazing.
• 1:35:34
  I mean it's. It's built like a Volkswagen,
• 1:35:36
  but like, yeah, you know, people are people are one of those
• 1:35:39
  Myers makes is the, you know, they're spending big money on a
• 1:35:42
  Myers makes. I'd rather have a 914 six
• 1:35:44
  personally. Well, but you know.
• 1:35:47
  You should get a 1511, which is the sort of singerized 914 I
• 1:35:53
  have not seen that I think is going to be the next big thing.
• 1:35:55
  Check it out 1511 out of the UK. They're really they're done to
• 1:36:00
  the the level of a of a single. What, what, what what?
• 1:36:03
  What's the number? 14 in it a. 105 two.
• 1:36:06
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but but when a singer now
• 1:36:10
  is 1,000,000 1/2 to start or more, right?
• 1:36:13
  Yeah, that's the market seem like the value play.
• 1:36:15
  So anyway, but all right, we better end this before, you
• 1:36:18
  know, we just keep going for another hour and a half.
• 1:36:20
  But this was fun. I appreciate everyone listening,
• 1:36:23
  appreciate all the feedback and all that.
• 1:36:26
  And give us your comments. Tell us what you want.
• 1:36:28
  Tell us what you think we got wrong, or what part we're
• 1:36:31
  missing. And more importantly, what what
• 1:36:33
  part of the BS list should be on everybody's radar for 26?
• 1:36:36
  Buy them first before you tell us.
• 1:36:38
  I think this is the first of this will be the first of many,
• 1:36:41
  this will, this will be something we'll all look forward
• 1:36:43
  to right in the years to come. Michael, it's always a pleasure
• 1:36:46
  to have you sit in. Thank you, Dan, I hope you're
• 1:36:49
  having a great time in Scottsdale, Lindsay.
• 1:36:52
  It's been fun tonight. Just a reminder to please tell
• 1:36:56
  your friends, make sure that you leave a review, a comment if you
• 1:37:00
  can. It means the world to us and
• 1:37:03
  lets us know that you're listening.
• 1:37:05
  And until next time, we are that car show, Lindsay.
• 1:37:08
  And remember, always be driving. Thanks everyone.