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Should Pastors Use Violence? · Walk Talk: Faith in Motion

• Pj Verdin: So a local pastor in Baton Rouge arrested. Now I know in in our day and age that pastors getting arrested is not uncommon, but the reason may surprise you. We're gonna talk about that and a whole lot more on today's episode of The Walk Talk. Alright brother, man. So apparently last week was a crazy week. Crazy week. Randy: All right. Mm-hmm. Don't you don't wanna be messing with no pastors down in Louisiana. Pj Verdin: Yeah, so man. So dude, this this kind of hit hit my feed and was just everywhere. Everybody was talking about it. and and I was like, well, what the heck is going on? the first thing I saw was a video saying a pastor had been arrested for assaulting someone. Randy: Yeah, yeah. And and I hadn't even heard about it at all until you, you know, brought it up. And now I've heard about it several times since then. I just I guess it took a couple of days for, you know, it to h reach the broader, you know, airwaves, but I've heard it on a couple of different shows that I follow. Pj Verdin: So Yeah, it it's it's pretty wild, man. And you know, immediately what what popped up in my mind whenever I saw this was, you know, one of our earlier episodes, you know, we addressed the the idea of turning the other cheek or what does it look like for Christian masculinity in today's age and and and man, you know, this kind of this kind of touches on on all those things. And so from just to I guess you know preface it a little bit is Randy: Right. Right. Pj Verdin: From what I I was able to gather, apparently the this this church in Baton Rouge is or it's it's around Baton Rouge, not directly in Baton Rouge, but like a little suburb of it. pretty pretty big church, like right across the highway. Well apparently, from what I was able to gather, there there's a house with with some people across the street from this this church that have apparently for years kind of had an issue with the church. and and and its members, you know, they they've allegedly called the police multiple times for, you know, members of the congregation having to deal with being called racial slurs and and all these things, kind of threats being made. And and and and from what I understand is it kind of originated during COVID. So this neighbor this neighbor allegedly allowed the FBI to surveil Randy: Mm-hmm. Okay. Pj Verdin: There's church, I guess, for being open during COVID because you you remember that whole thing whenever they're like churches are not essential. Randy: Yeah, yeah. I I I remember that you know, you could you could protest or with thousands of people, if you were protesting against the pro the the president or protesting for Black Lives Matter, but if you were gathering in a church, then you were breaking the law. Pj Verdin: Right, yeah, right. You know, and I mean mind you, this is the time of of of you know, just there was a lot of craziness going on. So apparently the the same neighbor during that period allowed the FBI to surveil them, use their yard and this at the other end. So there's been there's been tension ever since. Well, according to this pastor whose name is Tony Spell, the the son of this homeowner, twenty-year-old son, started Randy: I gotcha. Yeah. Pj Verdin: screaming obscenities, making threats to the like of I will I will sexually assault your wife, I will sexually assault your grandchildren, and whenever you're out of whenever you leave to go out of town next, I will kill I'll kill your wife and I'll kill your grandchildren. And at this point, this this pastor had enough. You know, he ran across the street. The this young guy takes a couple swings at him and Randy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well. Yeah. Pj Verdin: I would tell this old pass I guess maybe he thought like man I'm 20. I'm I'm a spring chicken. This an old passer. That passer beat the brakes off this boy. It was wild. Randy: Yeah. Well, I yeah, and I and I saw I saw the video of this and two things jumped jumped out at me. And I I know we're gonna pull it up here in a second. The first thing was this twenty-year-old kid, he pulls out his phone. So the pastor starts running towards him and he pulls out his phone to start recording as if like that's a shield of protection or something, which just shows you just the typical mindset of, you know, his age group, which is they're more more more likely to pull out a phone and record something that's happening. Pj Verdin: Yeah. Randy: than actually participate. Like he thought it was going to happen to someone else or something. the second thing I thought was I just I can't believe that this pastor would actually go and lay hands on this 20 year old kid without also beating the crap out of his dad, who obviously didn't raise him right and has been a bigger part of the problem. Like they both deserved the beat down in my opinion. Pj Verdin: Yeah. Right, right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it it was wild, man. It was wild to see and and I think from the video that I saw, I wanna say, you know, his his little keyboard warrior mentality went out the the building. Whenever that pastor started coming across the street, I'm pretty sure he started screaming, Help like he was like, man, it this is about to get real. So yeah, man, I'll I'll go ahead. Let me let me pull that up real real quick. Randy: Yeah. Yeah, let's take a look at it. WAVI team update obtained videos of that fight from the victim's father who says his son was left beaten and bloody. Or Chris Nakamoto has this. Chris. Good evening, Listen Greg. Scott Sherwin says this view goes back for years between his family and Pastor Tony Spell, but he never dreamed that he would come running at his son today, sending him to the hospital. This shocking fight doesn't have any audio because it was taken from a surveillance camera. It captures a brawl breaking out near the city of Central. Punches being thrown before both men fall to the ground. Investigators say one of the men throwing. Punches as well known pastor, Tony Spell, of Life Tabernacle Church. Moments before those punches broke out, another video shows Spell charging at the man. The father of the alleged victim gave the WAFBI team this video with no sound. Spell was arrested shortly after the fight and charged with second degree battery. Cameras were rolling as deputies took him into custody. These pictures also provided to us by Scott Sherwin, the father of the younger. Pj Verdin: Yeah. Randy: Result of that brawl which for his twenty-year-old son to receive five stitches in his chin. Sherwin told the WABI team there's been a long standing feud that's gone on between Spell Pj Verdin: Yeah. Yeah. Randy: on Tuesday. It looks like that's it on the On the fight. They're only showing part of it. They're not showing what led up to it. typical media bias, in my opinion. And then it looks like they went into the whole background of him defying a I mean, to me, it looks like a hit piece on the pastor. They just they didn't talk about what the family was doing or what the son was saying. They just show him charging over, beating the crap out of this kid, and then they start talking about yeah, he's not the first time he's been arrested. He defied the COVID orders as well. Pj Verdin: Right. Right. Right. Go I mean that's that's a narrative unfortunately that that most people like to spin. And and so I don't know where this audio is is actually from though. I'm gonna go ahead and share or this video, excuse me, because for me you you do hear the audio in it. So so yeah, I I don't know. Randy: Okay. Okay. So the one we just watched, we had a surveillance camera video, looks like the same one, and then it was like a few seconds of a shaky cell phone video. Pj Verdin: Yeah. Help me, help me. See, swings at the pastor, swings at the pastor. Randy: Okay. Yeah, it looks like he swung first, actually. Pj Verdin: A hundred percent. Yeah, he he did. The pastor approaches him, the pastor approaches him, and then he swings and then the pastor finishes it. And and I will tell you, you're gonna see where where that where that that chin thing comes from because at the end he does pastor sure enough does kick him pretty good. Randy: Well, I mean the pastor, first of all, it looks like the pastor charged over there, but the kid swung first, kicked off his little g his little crocs or whatever the heck he's wearing in a in in in preparation. Then he swings, then the pastor Pj Verdin: Yeah. Yep, look, watch. He he swings twice. Look, he's got his phone out. Look, swings one, two, three. And then the past said, Okay, I'm gonna take this phone, I'm gonna put the the work to you. And you hear the the mom screaming they're fighting, stop. Randy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And in the pastor, good on him, man. He gets full guard on this kid so he could just beat the daylights out of him. Look at him, just got full guard, totally straddling his body. This kid is is helpless. He can't do anything at this point. Pj Verdin: yeah. the dude turns over. Pass it those phone. Yeah. Randy: He gives up his back. Yeah. Yeah. He obviously has no kind of training at all. Cause n not only does he take some pretty crappy shots at the pastor, but then he he gives up full guard and then he gives up his back. Pj Verdin: yeah, and then at one point, man, if this if it would stop skipping, he the pastor is is has him from like like this, punching him in his face, and he's just kicking his his kid his legs like a like a a brat don't attach him. Randy: Yeah, he's flopping around like a fish. Pj Verdin: Well look Yeah. Yeah. Now there's your chin issue right there. Randy: Yeah. Pj Verdin: So yeah, crazy, crazy stuff. Randy: And yeah, and and and let me just say, like, you know, in general, I'm not I'm not pro violence at all. however, when you see like a instant karma situation where someone obviously is just asking for it and then they get it, I mean, I can't I can't ever feel bad for for that person getting it. I mean, look, look, we all got spankins as a kid. Well, most of us got spankins as a kid. And Pj Verdin: No. Yeah. Randy: I think there's a time and a place where spankins are appropriate. And I think that, you know, it does a person good, character wise, to get their butt kicked at least once in their life. I really do. Otherwise, it it it does teach you something. I mean, look, we're social, you know, people are social animals. That's what they say. Not that we're animals, but they say we're social animals. Part of being social is Pj Verdin: It does teach you it teaches you something, it really does. Randy: Is knowing where the boundaries are and what you can and can't get away with. When you know, when you interact with other people, whether it's in elementary school or high school or college or the workplace or your neighbors, what what have you, you know, the those interactions teach you what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. And if you're in if your behavior crosses a line to where another person feels like they need to physically assault you. And then they beat the daylights out of you, that's a learning moment. You gotta learn from that moment. Pj Verdin: Right. Well and and so here here's some some of my feelings on it, man. You know, y we can sit here and and and and look at this from the outside looking in, and and say, you know what, man, maybe maybe some of that was a little bit excessive. But but to that point I would just say this. You have what you have to understand is this is the heat of the moment. This this this pastor finally got to his breaking point to the extent that he's willing to run across this highway to Randy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: To at least, you know, be face to face with this guy and say, Listen, I've had enough. A fight commences. This pastor is he's not it's not he's a pastor. He's not an MMA fighter. He's not composed. He's just he's he's lost it at this point. So some of the stuff where people can say, Okay, well I could see defending yourself, but this is excessive. It's like, man, try to put yourself in that shoes. If you get pushed to the point where you're going to to confront somebody to the level of throwing hands, then y y you're obviously not, you know. Randy: Well Pj Verdin: You you're you're not Randy: yeah. Pj Verdin: in in the you you're in the fight or flight state and you chose to fight, so that's what you got on your hands. You know what I mean? Randy: Exactly. And and if you're out there, you know, running your mouth with for no reason, this guy's out here just running his mouth, yelling racial slurs and obscenities and threats, more importantly than anything else, threats that he's out there yelling, you are asking for, you know, you are putting yourself in that position where you are asking for a physical altercation. You can't just go around threatening people. You know, it it's kind of like the limits on free speech, right? We know that there are limits on free speech. You know that you can't yell fire in a movie theater. You can't call for, you know, the assassination of someone or violence towards someone. Like there are limits. So and and part of those limits have to do with, you know, you making threats and you saying things that are salacious. And that's why we have, you know, like liable laws and things like that, where, you know, someone could be sued for defamation. I mean, you can't just Go around saying whatever you want to say and and expect to not have something like this happen. Now, this is this is something that I think there are there's a you know a political party and there are certain movements in this country that have taken it too far. So we gotta be careful, right? Because there's there's there's people out there saying that you know, silence is violence, which is totally BS. There's people out there saying if you differ with them on a political opinion, that that's violence. That's total BS. If you don't say black lives matter, that that's violence. Total BS. This guy was no kidding, throwing threats. He was he was screaming threats at the pastor, at the churchgoers. That's totally different. Pj Verdin: Some and I mean not just threats towards his his person, which I think the pastor has probably heard and and was willing to take, but you know, whenever you start I I mean, that that's the part that really resonated for me. Granted, I don't have grandchildren, but but like man, you know, whenever you start making threats towards somebody's wife and or children, us as men, it's our job to protect women and children. You know what I mean? So that's gonna kick in. No, that that instinct, that that duty. Randy: Yes. And and and look go ahead, sorry, yeah. Pj Verdin: Side of us is gonna kick in. Randy: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Pj Verdin: And just let me let me just reference this. Let let me share this with you while while you're you're making your next point. because like you said, the one that that you showed, they didn't they didn't really want to talk about the the family, right? Well let let's just let's just see this this family. So this is this is the family that we're referencing. Randy: Yep, yep. You got it? Let's see. Pj Verdin: Yeah. So this is the this is the family. So this is from Channel Nine News. on they posted this on Facebook. These are apparently pictures that that the pastor and and his wife had of look them standing across the street, pointed at the church, middle fingers up, they've blurted out. now this I'm I'm assuming is either middle fingers from the wife as well, or she's exposing herself in some kind of way. But it it just says that Pastor Tony Spell's family provided these photos to WAF B showing what he says was the constant torment his family endured leading up to this viral fight. The WAFBI team also obtained police reports from the Central Police Department documenting complaints made by the pastor's family. So this was an ongoing thing from these kind of people who would stand across the street and and and flip off the the the church. So that's who we're dealing with. Randy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you I'm glad you showed that 'cause it, you know, it obviously this is something that's been going on for years. The whole family seems to have a issue just in general with life. I mean, w what what what caused them to actually start? I mean, I'd be good to find out what actually caused caused them to start antagonizing the church. Were they just so mad because they were still gathering during COVID or did it go back even further than that? Pj Verdin: Well well. From what I read, the the family did complain that they were unhappy about the like the because it's it's a pretty big church. They said like the worship music is loud, they could hear it from their house and it's like it's it's a ch it's a church, dude. You know what I mean? Like so just they had those those kind of little pet peeves with with apparently the church and and and the gathering. I don't know if it was directly related to any kind of like religious Randy: Yeah. Pj Verdin: You know, like I I don't agree with their religion. But that is the the the Sherwin Sherwin family for for reference that I I just showed a picture of. Randy: Yeah. I'm Well, let me just say this. Look, okay, I could see them being annoyed. If there's a big church right next door, right across the street, there's tons of traffic every Sunday because there's so many people coming and going. You could hear the music from your house. Like, yeah, I could see that being an annoyance. but we've talked about this before. When the pressures of life squeeze you, that's when you find out what you're really made of. And we found out what these people are really made of. Is there other things that they could do, other actions that they could take, legal actions, civil actions? Probably, probably a hundred better options than standing out there screaming obscenities and racial slurs at the church attendees and the pastors. But all that aside, I mean, you look, you you cannot go around making threats towards people and expect to not, you know, get your your comeuppins, right? Because once you cross that line. Pj Verdin: Right. Randy: And you start making threats towards people, then look, here's what I'm gonna say. If this kid was just out there making idle threats just to try to scare the pastor, and he had no intention whatsoever of following through with it, then okay, hopefully he got a beat down that's gonna teach him a lesson. But let's just say, for example, he honestly did have intentions of following through with his intentions of harming this pastor's family. Well, he very well could have been he very well could have been killed himself in the act, assuming that this pastor and his family has, you know, some way of defending themselves. So what's better for him to, you know, get a beatdown or for him to potentially, you know, being killed in an attempt to to do the violence that he was, you know, threatening to do? Pj Verdin: yeah. Or or or or the other side of that, which is actually being able to carry out, you know, the the brutality of a woman and children be because of you know, who and here's the thing, man, you gotta think, you know, there especially with with things of of a sexual nature, crimes of a sexual nature, right? So I mean, there's a reason why if if you commit sexual assault or you're you're a a sex offender Randy: Right. A hundred percent. Pj Verdin: You you have to register, like people wanna know, like, hey, I have a sex offender in my neighborhood. Why to protect themselves against that kind of mind frame that would lead somebody to do something like that. So if you have somebody openly verbalizing, hey, I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z, these heinous acts, to not only towards your wife, but towards innocent children, also, you you you can't just say, Man, he's probably just saying that. No, it's your job as as a as a father, as a husband, you know, to to handle those things. And and so, you know, Randy: Right. Right. Pj Verdin: This this Pastor Tony Spell, he he did address that in in a conference that that he had I believe in front of his church, you know, after after he was arrested. so I I wanna say he got arrested on a Tuesday. You know, he he bonded out on Wednesday and he preached the Wednesday night. And you know, it it's one of those things some people I've I've saw said that that they felt like it was distasteful. And I I I I get him kind of trying to make light of the situation, but I do know that he was quoted as saying, you know, I followed the Bible because it says to lay hands on the sick. And he's like, so I laid hands on he's like, I don't know what his recovery's gonna look like, but I laid hands. So Randy: Amen. Yeah, I I heard it I heard something similar. I heard him saying that he fulfilled prophecy because the Bible says to lay lay hands on the sick for their healing or something like that. And and that's what he did. And and yeah, I mean, look, I to me, you could think it's distasteful, you could think it's funny. I I mean, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, the dude did what most of us would do. And honestly, I'm kind of surprised to hear that a pastor would actually do because from my experience. Nothing against the pastors that you know I I know and and love, but I think most pastors would probably probably be too worried about maybe losing their job or maybe making the news in a bad way or quote unquote representing Christ in a in a negative way or anything like that, that they would they would they would not take that kind of action. And I'm not gonna judge whether what Tony did was right or wrong or what you know, the other pastors might choose to do as right or wrong. But I think that he did what most most of us as men with families would do is and that's, you know, step up and defend his family. Because at the end of the day, regardless of what could have happened, whether this guy followed through with his threats and was successful or tried to follow through with his threats and was taken out, regardless of what could have possibly happened, you know, he he you could probably assume he is not going to do anything now. Not with the eyes of the police and the media and the world on him. He's definitely I I would be really shocked if he tried to do anything now. Pj Verdin: Well also knowing that this pass is not gonna let it slide. And and you know, I think that the only reason why the the the feelings that are out there are out there is because this guy's a passer. Because there's there's this this mentality that, you know, you if you're saved, you're soft. You know what I mean? You're you're you're gonna turn the other cheek. I can basically do whatever I want to you because according to your beliefs, you're just gonna let me. And and and I I I you know, hey look, you know, I know people who Who subscribe to that that same kind of mentality? I personally don't. You know what I mean? I I I I'm more in the camp of of a meme that I saw, like I told you, that says, pray with me, but don't play with me. You know what I mean? It's it it's it is what it is, man. Like, you know, and and I think that, you know, kind of setting that that precedent and getting us back to being both strong men of God and and you know, just masculine men. Randy: Yeah. Yeah. Pj Verdin: Like we're supposed to instead of this dem you know, like they they've they've been trying to to to systematically make men less manly, you know, i if if you're if you're masculine you're you're it's it's toxic and all all the things. We we've heard all the same crap. Randy: Well, and yeah, and and that's one of the reasons why people like Jordan Peterson has become so popular because we're not they're not hearing it in the church, they're not hearing it from pastors, they're not hearing it from believers for the most part. So you have a guy like Jordan Peter Peterson who comes up and he's like, Hey, look, men have to be dangerous. Men have to be dangerous. Why do men have to be dangerous? Because there are dangerous men out there. And if you're not a dangerous man, how are you gonna protect your family against those dangerous men? It's that whole wolves versus You know, dogs mentality. You got the the guard dog and the wolves. The only thing that's gonna protect you against those wolves out there is the guard dogs. And so, you know, the good men, the godly men have to be the guard dogs. We gotta be on the watch, we gotta be the protectors because those wolves ain't gonna care. They're coming in looking for the sheep. And if and if there ain't nothing to stop them. And and and while I'm saying that, I'm even thinking, you know, aren't pastors called shepherds? Aren't don't we normally call pastors shepherds of the flock? What are those shepherds walk around with that stick for? Isn't it to beat the wolves over the head or anything that might come and and and challenge their sheep, try to attack their sheep? Isn't that what that's for? Pj Verdin: What did David do? What did David do? David killed bears and lions. You know what I mean? Trying to try trying to shepherd his flock. And and and you know, Mark Driscoll, he he is well known for saying for saying this. He says all the time, he's like, you know, evil doesn't stop itself. It needs to be stopped. Period. And and and in that same vein, like you're saying, Jordan Peterson's saying it's like, Randy: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Pj Verdin: Man, listen, you could you could just sit back idly and say, man, you know what? I hate all that bad stuff out there. I wish it would just stop. Well, it's not gonna stop itself. It's gonna take people like this, this Tony Spell getting out there and saying, listen, you know what? I yeah, I can love and exhibit the Christ in my life, but to a certain extent, I also have an obligation to be the the protector that I I need to be sometimes I have to be the lion. To to the outside world and the lamb to to my household. You know what I mean? And and I mean I think that that's basically what you see here. Randy: Yep. That's that reminds me of that quote by Edmund Burke, and you probably have heard it before. It's the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Pj Verdin: Right. Hundred percent. That's that's that's how that goes. so I I don't know if you you wanted to check this out or if you've seen this, but I was gonna go ahead and and play the press conference and and kinda give this this pastor Tony Spell you know the opportunity to kind of share hit you know firsthand what what went down from his perspective and you know Randy: Yeah, play play that. And before you play it, let me just say one more thing. Look, I've been in a lot of fights my whole life. Every time we moved, you know, I moved at least once a year my entire grade school career until probably 10th grade. And that's probably the last time I got in a fight, was probably in my in ninth grade, honestly. Now looking back at it, and I could tell you that more often than not, probably 90 plus percent of the time. After getting in a fight with someone physical fight where we beat this not out of each other, we became friends. And that is probably more the norm than the exception. So why am I saying that? Why am I bringing this up? Do I think this pastor and this kid are going to become friends? No, I I don't. But what usually happens is there becomes there there tends to be this respect that's built, mutual respect. You got boundaries that are set. And Pj Verdin: Mutual respect, yep. Randy: You are able to become friends. In my in instance, in a lot of those cases, I I did become friends with guys that were bullying me, picking on me, that I ended up fighting with. I they I earned their respect by beating the snot out of them or by taking a punch, either way. and then you know, we were able to become friends. It hopefully, if nothing else out of this situation, there's that mutual respect that's built and this de-escalates going forward. And but the real reason I'm bringing this up is for all the people out there who are gonna just totally bash this pastor and say there's never any cause for physical violence to say that look, violence like this, where both guys walk away and are living and breathing, no guns were fired, things like that. It's just fists that were thrown is is actually not the worst thing in the world. So there actually could be some positive that comes out of it. Pj Verdin: And and and another thing to consider is, man, you know, who knows if by by this pastor's actions, by actually beating this this young dude up, you know, he he's stopped any not only just for his family, but I mean, you know, it's like if this behavior is left unchecked, who knows where this kid's going if he already has that kind of mentality that would think to to to even think to say to somebody. Like I could never imagine myself threatening to harm an innocent child over not liking even even if it's just a problem with this pastor, like to to have that mentality of of in the the way he was speaking about harming them before murder or unaliving them or whatever they make you say these days. But yeah, man, like that's it's just wild. Like who knows who else's family members may have been saved by, you know, him saying, man, I can't just run around saying what I want and making threats. Like maybe this is checked behavior, man. That's that's how I I take it. Randy: And people need to have their behavior checked from time to time, unfortunately. Pj Verdin: Huh. A hundred percent. All right, so let let's get into this. Let's see what what what he had to say for himself. So yeah, so they they didn't show as much of of his interview as as I remembered. I must have watched a different video, but but still again you you kinda see how the the narrative that the the news media starts to take. You know, it's it's all about the th they're sitting here showing the pastor, but talking about the perspective of the Sherwin family who was quote unquote victimized by this pastor who's a bully, 'cause you know, it it's just wild. I mean, but it it's it's not it's not out of the Randy: Yeah. Yeah. Pj Verdin: The norm, you know what I mean? It's it's Randy: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's the same clip that I had saw when I first you know, heard about this this this whole situation. And, you know, on the one hand I'm like, okay, I get it. Like they have audio and video of the pastor and what he did. There's no evidence, there's no audio of what the kid was saying, you know, it's just taking the pastor's word for it, which I mean to me I I totally believe him because why Why else would he just run over there and do that unless it was something pretty, pretty bad? And from the sound of it, I mean, you know, it sounds like, you know, the the things he was saying, he was basically testing them, like, Hey, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do about it? Here's what I'm gonna do. What are you gonna do about it? And he got his answer. So you ask the stupid question, you get a stupid answer. And he got his answer. Pj Verdin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean and and you know, from from what I from what I heard was, you know, according to other claims from the other side is is, you know, the the police had been notified. There were complaints made and and and they felt like there was a a lack of of the way it was handled, you know, and that was in in the full press conference between Pastor Tony Spell and his lawyer, which I'm sure if y'all are interested, y'all can go look up and And and get the whole story, look into it for yourself and and formulate your own opinions. We're just kind of, you know, scratching the surface of of this whole situation. I know that apparently they're still they're going to court and trying to figure out, you know, what's what, see what all the evidence is and and see what they can compile. But it's just one of those things, man. It's like, you know, according to the to the pastor side, it's like, you know, listen, I've I've tried to go about this the right way. I've reached out to the police, I've made complaints. People, people in my congregation. Have also made complaints like, hey, these these people are harassing us, screaming obscenities and profanities and racial slurs at us, and nothing was done. So it's like, okay, I I I've tried to go the the the right way, the quote unquote right way about it. Now this guy this dude is threatening heinous things towards my wife and my children and asking me what I'm gonna do about it. Well, okay, I guess you know what, I'll I'll show him. I'll t I will take matters into my own hands, meaning nobody else is apparently interested in helping me out. And and this is how that happens. I mean, what what do you what else would you expect to have happen? You know, what would like you you said earlier, like I mean, i put yourself in in in this man's shoes, like what would you do? You know what I mean? What what would you do? I I know I know a hundred percent what I would do. You know what I mean? I'd I'd be on the news. That's that's just that that's what it is, man. Randy: Exactly. Exactly. One way or another it'd be on the news. Yep. Me too. Pj Verdin: a hundred percent. So but yeah, it's just it's just one of those things and I you know I I I I I it it's crazy because you know, in in in one aspect we see, you know, pastors getting put out there and and ending up in news headlines of, you know, all kinds of unfortunate stuff, you know affairs and you know, accusations of of interactions with child children that are inappropriate in in some denominations and and all those things. And it's like, man, here here you you are trying to, you know, paint this pastor in in this negative light, right? Just because he's a p a pastor for something that the majority of us would would handle the same s way. But but because he wants to hold himself, I guess, to a higher standard, people are like, well we gotta hold him to a higher standard in in this way. And it's like, man. You know, guess what? Pastor or not, still a human, pastor not, still a husband, pastor not still a father, grandfather. You know what I mean? Any other any other labels that you want to throw on him? Hey, he you know, at the end of the day, he he is a he is a man and he has a a duty and an obligation. and and that was one of man, I I'm not gonna lie, the thing that stuck out with me most in watching His his interview whenever he was addressing the the media in front of his church, it is he he said, he said, you know what? He said, however many years ago it was, he said, whenever my wife and I were was getting married, you know, I her father walked up to me and said, Listen, Tony, you know, my daughter's whole life, I've been her her protector and her provider. And I've done those things. And now I'm entrusting those things over to you. This is now your job. Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj Verdin: And he's like, that's a job that I I take seriously, as I feel like we should, as as husbands. You know what I mean? And and and guess what? He he did that. He did that. You know? So Randy: Hundred percent. Yep. He did his duty, man. That's all you could ask of him. And at the end of the day, you know, like you said, he's a man and he's taking his responsibility and you know, he took his responsibility to protect his family. Now he's taking responsibility, you know, going to court and we'll we'll have to follow this and see, you know, how this plays out and you know, hopefully the whole all the facts come to light. And, you know, he gets a favorable you know, verdict from the judge. I'm sure he's not gonna go without, you know, paying some sort of penalty or doing some sort of jail time or probation or something because he did assault the guy. But at the end of the day, I mean, if you're gonna assault a guy, that that's that's the time to do it. So Pj Verdin: Yeah. And I mean, you know, ultimately, I I I can say, you know, in in in in light of what we do know from scripture, you know, be praying for for the the other side as well because obviously there there's gotta be some kind of you know some kind of evil influence maybe whispering in this guy's ear to even get him to say those things and and you know we so yeah, man, just pray I I Randy: Yeah, yeah. Pj Verdin: I I'll be praying for both sides and and and I would encourage everybody to do the same because at the end of the day we are supposed to, you know, love our our enemies and and pray for those that persecute us and and the whole nine. So even if you gotta put the hands on Even if you gotta put hands on them. Randy: Yeah. And and there's no Hey, and that's just yeah, I I was I was just gonna say you could be praying for your enemies while at the same time, you know, giving them a a busted chin every once in a while. I don't see those two things as being completely you know, c contradictory. But i it'd be awesome if at the end of the day someone gets saved out of this whole situation and and and amends are made. but you know, time will tell. So we'll see. Pj Verdin: Yes, sir. Randy: All right, man. Well, hey, I think that does it for this episode. So just want to remind everybody, thank you guys so much for following the show. Before you go, let us know what you think in the comments down below. God bless. Pj Verdin: God bless.