Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Jack Tempchin

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Jack Tempchin · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sex Podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My guest today is singer songwriter Jack Tempchin. Jack. Good
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: to have you on the podcast. Let's start right at
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the beginning. How'd you write peaceful, easy feeling?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Well? Do you want the truth or the story that
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I always tell?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Tell both? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. The truth is I
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: don't actually remember, but I remember part of it. I
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: had a buddy of mine made a poster advertising me
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: when I played in coffeehouses in San Diego, where where
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I've always lived, and the poster had quotes from people
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: like Joni Mitchell said a real man and stuff like that,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: which he just made up. He made up this poster.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: So a guy in El Centro had a coffee house
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: and he hired me to play. I went out to
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: El Centro, and you know, like Warren Zevon's song says,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I went home with the waitress the way I always
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: do well, I always tried to go home with a waitress,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: and this one said, yeah, okay, I'll come back later
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: and get you and take you to my place. So
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I told the people I was with I wasn't going
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: to need a ride or a place to stay. Well,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: she never came back, and I ended up in this
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: little It was in a little strip mall. It was
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: this coffee house called the Aquarius, and I just ended
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: up sleeping on the linoleum floor all night and no girl.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: But I had the guitar and so I started writing
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: on the back of this poster and I wrote a
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: bunch of stuff. And you know when you start writing
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: a song, which stops most people, the fact is that
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: you had a bunch of stuff that's no good and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: it's really stupid. Then all of a sudden, you look
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: back and you go, hey, that was a good phrase,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: and you kind of start from there. So the phrase peaceful,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: easy feeling popped out, and I guess it was kind
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: of about my friend at the time was into zen
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: and this is kind of really early, and there was
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: these concepts like, you know, if you let go of something,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: that gives your hand free to get something else, and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: it's only when you stop looking for stuff that you
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: can find it, and so that was kind of the
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: ideas like, yeah, the girl didn't show up, I'm not
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: going to be in love with her, but I'm fine,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: everything's going to be fine. So I got back to
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: San Diego, and I went to a street fair and
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I was walking around and I saw this beautiful girl
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: with these turquoise earrings, so I put her in the song.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: And then later I was on in San Diego and
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Washington Boulevard at a place called the Der Wiener Schnitzel.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: It changed now to Wiener Schnitzel. Yeah.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know why they changed it. I mean, I
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: can understand it. Originally it was Wiener Schnitzel, but we
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: were all accustomed to Der Wiener Schnitzel. Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And the other funny thing is, forty years later they
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: had a celebration for me there because I wrote the
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: last verse of the song sitting there waiting for the
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Polish Dog. And I was amazed, of all the things
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: in San Diego that that place was still there forty
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: years later, the Der Wiener Snitzel, you know, which was
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: now Wiener Schnitzel. And by the way, they gave me
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: that day, they presented me with a solid gold Wiener.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Literally solid gold, just not painted gold.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Well, there's at least gold plated. I have it out
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: in my studio.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And well, I was to say, you know, if we
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: hit the apocalypse and it's solid gold old.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: You could live off that. I could use that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: So anyway, continue, So you go back to San Diela,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: go to the street fair. You're waiting for your Polish dog.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: It's der wiener Stitzel.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And then I saw another girl and I wrote the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: last verse sitting there at that table. And they put
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: a plaque that day in the table, and I was
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: very happy to learn later somebody stole the plaque wow table,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: so they must have cared. And I guess I was
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: ten years ago, because now it's been fifty years. But
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I always say, you know, if you were a young
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: woman walking around forty years ago by the Dreweener Snitzl,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the song could be about you and you'll never even know.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: And so basically that's the story of how I wrote it.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And then I I was up in La Well, before
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: you get up in La Yeaka, you talk about the
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: song being written over a period of time, three different verses.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: The question is what were you eking it out or
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: did all three come from inspiration or did you do
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: like you said earlier, were you just pick and chows
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: what actually worked from what you'd done previously.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Well, so in those days I had a Stella guitar
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: that I bought in a pawn shop in San Diego
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: for thirteen bucks and came with the string for the strap.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: And I walked around all the time. I always had
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: that thing with me, and I'd walk around and sing.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: And so I wrote the song continuously over about three
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: or four days. So I was just kept singing it
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: and adding things, you know, to answer your question, until
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I got the last verse, and then I had it.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: You know, Okay, just a couple of things. Is that
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: typical of you that the song evolves? I know you're
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: doing your Beach series now, which is similar to that.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: We'll get to that. Or is it a bolt of
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: inspiration or is it sitting down I have to write
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a song or is it all of it?
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: It's all of it. I guess it's different with every
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: song now. I did try putting myself on a schedule.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: At one point, I'm gonna go out every day and
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: write songs for two weeks, and I'm gonna it's not
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: the same. I did song a day and that was different.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: But I just thought I'll do it on a schedule,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and I did it for a couple of weeks. I
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: looked at all the songs. I didn't like them, so
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: threw away that idea. But the songs, you just get
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: an idea. Sometimes I'm writing with people, but you just
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: get an idea and you just follow it.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, well we'll get a little deeper as we
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: go on. But peaceful, easy Feeling is now done. Is
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: it just another song you wrote or do you say, no,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: this one's special.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm playing it for my buddy and I'm I'm
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: finger I'm flat picking it, and then all of a sudden,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: I finger pick it, you know, and he goes, oh, yeah,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: now you got something that's really cool, you know. And
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: then later, of course, after Glenn Fry heard it, he
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: went back to flat picking it, you know. But those
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: were just the changes. And no, I did not know
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: that everyone in the world was going to like the song.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: In fact, I was positive was never going to be
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: a hit song. It didn't have the love chorus. I
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: just I liked it, but I did not. But the
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: other point is, in those days I was in folk
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: music and one of my buddies said, you know, Jack,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: there's hundreds of dollars to be made in this folk music.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So and I thought of it. Recently, the fact that
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: the idea that you were ever going to have a
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: song on the radio or make money from a song
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: was completely foreign to us at that point. You know,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I just wrote the song because I was playing in
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: these coffee houses and they all closed in nineteen seventy two. So,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: just to clarify, a coffee house was a place where
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: they played folk music and they had no alcohol. You know,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: it was apple cider, and I was playing it three
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: or four of those. So it was just to have
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: songs to sing that I wrote them, and I don't know,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. I was just into writing them.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And okay, but I cut you off. So you went
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: up to La the troubadour Tell me about that. Well, first,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I was going to say that, to follow the thread
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: of that song. At some point, I was staying at
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Jackson Brown's house. He oh that way too fast. Okay,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: way too fast. You're in San Diego.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Jackson Brown from Orange County moves to LA just because
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: people traveled. How did you know Jackson Brown? Was it
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: a community at this point or was he just the
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: one guy you knew?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Well? I played at a place called the Candy Company Folk,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: a folk house, and Jackson came to play there. And also,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: this is before quite a while before he recorded anything,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: but I already had heard his songs. I knew. I
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: actually played a song for Adam, and I played these Days,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: and I didn't ever play anyone else's songs. So I
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: heard those and thought they were great. So I met John.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I'm interested because I how did you hear a song
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: for Adam? You know?
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know anymore. It wasn't when he
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: came down. I already knew the song. So I think
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: people just had heard these songs on the folk circuit
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: and had learned them and were just doing him. And
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: now that's how I heard.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Them, because these Days had covers. I don't remember a
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: cover of songs for aut him. But continue he comes
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: down to the club, you already know these songs.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's where I met him.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: And the same thing happened with the duo Long Branch
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Penny Whistle. They came to that club and played, and
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I asked them if they were really good? And I
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: like those guys. And the place they were going to
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: stay was a place where the lady liked to have
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: what we used to call in counter groups in that
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: era where you'd sit around and they'd pick your brains
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: and try to destabilize you so they could take over
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: your mind. And then the facilitator would sleep with all
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: the women in the in the group, you know. So
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: that was I said, you guys, don't want to go
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: do that, and they go, now, we really don't. So
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I had a large house had rented with five bedrooms,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and there was a hippie pad, we had washed up
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: base in the living room, and my brother and I
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: had a candle shop in the garage, and so they
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: came to stay with us, and every time they came
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: to San Diego, it was Glenn Fry and JD Souther
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: who were in this long Bench Penny Whistle, and so
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: we became really good friends over time, and so that's
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: how I met Jackson, and also Glenn and j D.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: And then at some point Glenn and JD were living
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: in Silver Lake and Jackson was living right below them,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: so I stayed up there several times.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, before you get to that point, Yeah, people don't
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: know how hard it is to make it, and generally
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the people who make it least on the way up
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: are networking. Did you say, while these people are coming
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: through the club, I need to know them. How did
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you make the connection?
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Hm? Well, like I always say as a joke, people go,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: how do you make it? And I go, well, just
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: find some guy. I get to know him and work
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: with him about five or ten years before he gets
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: really famous. It's not that hard, you know. But the
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: real uh, the reality is I was drawn to these
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: people because of my passion for the music, and I
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: just they had it, you know. And uh and I
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: was just drawn to them and anybody else who I
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: thought was great, you know, So you just naturally fall
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: in with those people.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, you were doing you were on that circuit. Anybody
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: who was great who didn't make it?
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, well that's yes, yes, of course there's always people
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: like that because there's so much more to making it
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: than just your talent. There's a guy, Ray Burrow, you know.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: So I played at a coffeehouse called the Heritage. The
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: doorman was Tom Waits, and he was not a player.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: He was the doorman and he collected the tickets and anyway,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: this an aside. He was a photographer and liked to
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: take pictures of the homeless guys downtown. Great photographs, but
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: they got a piano in the club, so he would
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: stay after hours and practice the piano, and one by
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: one he sold his cameras to pay for piano lessons,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden he was doing these
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: songs like Hope that I Don't Fall in Love with
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: You and Martha and But there was a guy, Ray Burrow,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: and he used to play there all the time, and
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Tom and I both would steal any song he came
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: up with. He didn't write, but he he had fantastic
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: songs he would find, so I guess just didn't have
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the ambition. He's still around, He's made maybe one album.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: It's incredibly great. But you know, Tom and I stayed
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: in the music, but he didn't. And then I've known
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of guys who were super talented. They're in
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: every town, everywhere, but they don't have they don't have
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: the personality. A lot of people are just as soon
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: as they get close to the flame of fame, they
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: run away, you know what I mean. They can't handle it,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: and it takes a huge collection of talents to really
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: make it happen. Ambition, you know, dealing with people, aligning
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: yourself with other great people to make the music and
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: all that.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, so let's go back to Peaceful Easy Feeling.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: You went up to stay with Jackson in silver Lake.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I stay with Glenn and j D and Silverlake.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: But then later they had run into David Geffen, and
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: these guys were always helping me, and they helped me
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: all the way through, and so they were going to
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: introduce me to Geffen. So that's why later after they
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: moved from silver Lake, I was staying at Jackson's house
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: and Glenn came over and I was in Jackson's piano
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: room where he had the curtains closed all the time
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: because he didn't want anybody seeing or hearing while he practiced.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: And I was in there playing Peaceful Easy Feeling, and
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Glenn came in and he said, what's that? So he
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: recorded the song on a cassette recorder, which let's just
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: pretend that people know what that is, you know, And
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: then he said, jack I got a new band, and
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: we've been together about eight days, so so let me
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: work this song up. I go.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So he came back the next day with the cassette
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: recorder and played me the Eagles doing a Peaceful Easy
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: feeling on this cassette recorder, you know. And then I
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: about a week later, I went and I saw them
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: rehearse in this tiny little room and I saw Don
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Henley saying, you don't miss your water to your well
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: runs dry as he's playing the drums, and I'm just going, map,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: who is this guy? This is like incredible. But that's
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: how the Eagles got the song.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: And Okay, how long before the record came out? And
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: how'd you find out it was going to be on
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the record.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it all happened pretty quickly.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: And Glenn said, we're gonna get all these record execs
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: in here in the room. We're going to put them
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: right in front of us and play. And then I
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: guess they got a deal. And I don't know, it
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: wasn't It didn't seem like it was that long. And
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: then Glenn, Uh, I'm still living in San Diego. So
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: then Glenn came back from recording the record, and he
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: had a two track tape, you know, And I was
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the only guy in San Diego who had a tape recorder.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I had a Revox and so that was the standard
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: back then. Revox was the that was the King of
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: the Hill and just two tracks one mic boom and uh.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So he came over my house and a bunch of
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the people from uh that were my roommates at the
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: hippie Pad, you know, we all sat around and he
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: played the two track tape of the first Eagles record.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So the first I'm sitting there and the first song
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: is take It easy Going.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Wow, that is the best thing I've ever heard.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It's incredible.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Then the next song is Witchy Woman and I wing oh, man,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: that is the best thing I ever heard. And then
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: the third song is Peaceful, easy Feeling, and I'm going
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: this is the best album I've ever heard already, you know.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: So so there it was boom. You know.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's dig a little deeper. Did anybody try to
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: get your publishing or did you remain the owner of
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: the song.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Well, so what happened was they introduced me to David
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Geffen and he was going to take care of me.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: You know, so those were here quotes.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: This is an audio thing. Yeah, yeah, he's taking care
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: of me. So he put all of us into Warner
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Brothers Publishing, and so all my songs that time went
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: into Warner Brothers and they're still there now. When Azof
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: started working with the Eagles, he got all their publishing
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: back from Warner Brothers, so they own it. But he
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: didn't get my publishing or JD's or Jackson's publishing back
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: for those songs. So yeah, so they still owe those songs.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And so in.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: A typical publishing deal, there's one hundred cents on the dollar,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: they get fifty cents. You get fifty cents.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they get fifteen percent of my fifty
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: cents for administering. And they never placed anything or did anything,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: you know. And then other people have gotten their copyrights
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: back right since I wrote it prior to nineteen seventy two.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: For some ridiculous reason I don't understand. I have to
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: wait five ten more years before I can get my
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: song back, and they'll probably not want to give it back,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: So usually what they do is you come up with
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: a number for them to keep it. But we aren't
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: there yet. So is the revenue for peaceful easy feeling?
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Even though you get thirty five percent out of one
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: hundred percent, is that enough to pay your bills?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah? It has kept me going all these years. And
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: in the first few years I made a lot of money,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: but Reagan was the president and the taxes were about,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I think over eighty percent, you know. And I went
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: to the accountants that I had now, I said, well,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: rich people, when they get a lot of money, they
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: don't have to pay all these taxes, do they? And
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: they go, yeah, you do. There's no way to get
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: out of it. And other people did these oil futures
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and cattle ranches, you know, designed to who avoid the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: taxes that I didn't do that. My philosophy has always been,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: now you just pay all the tax and move on.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: But those people years later, they caught up with them
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: and took back all that money. So but yes, and
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think the same thing. Maybe the same thing
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: could happen today. I don't know what people how people
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: can do today.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Let's go back a little bit. Whatever happens, the album
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: comes out, this is the spring A seventy two or three? Whatever?
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and how long.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Until you see a check let spring A seventy two.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know, might have been Oh well, let's see.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: So in seventy two, David Geffen was paying me two
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty bucks a month as a as a songwriter, somehow,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: and so I, my girlfriend and I were traveling in
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: our Volkswagen bus and we go to general delivery at
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: each town and pick up my check. So that went on.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: We traveled for about a year, and so I think
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: it was about a year before I saw the first
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: first check.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And was the money coming in the inspiration for the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: trip or the trip would have happened?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: No, No, Well, the money, the two hundred and fifty
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: a month was a big deal because it was like, hey,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: and the other thing. I was just singing on the
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: street where we stopped somewhere to get some money for
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: food stuff. So that two hundred and fifty was important.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: But then when we got back, I remember, I think
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the first check I ever got was something like eight
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars and it was just like staggering, you know.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I just thought, this has to be a mistake, you know,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: So that so let's go wild till I got it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: And when you got to check for eight thousand dollars,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: you treat yourself to anything.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I think I just put
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: in the bank and I had borrowed money from my
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: folks to buy a piano, so I probably paid them
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: back at seven and forty bucks, you know.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, on the second album, I think it's second album
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: or a third album. All fifty five is on there.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Did Glenn Fry meet Tom Waits as a result of
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: him being the doorman in the club.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, don't. I don't think so. I don't think
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: he ever met Tom. He certainly didn't meet him there
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: because Glenn Fry wasn't around the Heritage Club. So but
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I guess they just liked the song. They'd heard that
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: song and loved it.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. So then everyone talks about this personality that he,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Glenn Fry had, that he was the most the coolest guy,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: the popular guy, the guy who made things happen. What
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: was your experience of.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Him all that and more, you know, especially looking back,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: you know, and most of the time that I spent
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: with him, we were we were the best of friends,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: you know, for about forty seven years, so from from
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: way before he was famous, and and he was all
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: of that, you know, and and a stand up guy
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: you know, who would be true to his words, show
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: up for you. It was kind of weird because to me,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: most of the time I spent with him, it was
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: just me and Glenn because we were writing or whatever,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: you know. So it wasn't like and I never worked
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: for him. Some people worked for him, They go, oh,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I was just partners. We were
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: just partners with the writing and who I don't know.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: You know, looking back, he was just an incredible person.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: He had this huge amount of skills that you don't
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: see when you look at a person. You know, he
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: was like a sports guy who could put together a
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: team and motivate everybody and pick the right players to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: the right positions, have him to do the right things,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: as well as being an incredible musician and azof said
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Glenn Fry taught him a lot about business. I mean,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: it's amazing. I just saw him as a guy like me,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a folky guy like me. And when I met him,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know that he played bass, that he
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: sang harmony, that he did all these others. So you
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: don't see the depth of people. And plus he was
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: an incredibly fun loving guy and the funniest guy that
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I ever knew. He was incredibly funny all the time.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, there it is. I was lucky
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: to know him.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're born in Ohio, before you're really conscious.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: In a matter of months, you moved to San Diego.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Why'd you move to San Diego? Why'd your parents moved
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: to San Diego?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure. I don't know. It was after
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the war. My dad was on track before the war
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: to be a baseball player and he was doing really well.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Then the war happened and that was over. So they
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: moved to San Diego and he got a job as
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: a milkman and did that the whole time I was
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: growing up. And that was a tough job. You had
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: to get up at four in the morning and they
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: delivered milk to your house. And this is before refrigerated trucks,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: so it was ice. You had to load physically load
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: in all the ice and all the stuff. And you know,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: he pretty soon had three kids, and so there was
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: no way out of that. He had to just keep
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: doing that, you know. And my mom, once we were
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: all in school, she went back to school, got a
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: master's and became a high school teacher. But he didn't
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: have the opportunity. And I just looked at that and said,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I don't want to get stuck in a job for
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: my whole life. I got to find some way of
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: not doing that myself and every other hippie on the planet.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: You know. Okay, I think I'm correct. You don't have
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: any children.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I do. I have a son.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Oh how old is your son?
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: He's forty? And I have two granddaughters.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, So if your son was born in the eighties,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: to what degree did you consciously not have children, because
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: it would have you'd want to get locked in like
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: your father.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you. We didn't have kids for ten years
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: and then and then we decided to so, which was
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: only people in our general. We were the first generation
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: that could make that choice, really, you know. And then
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: we turned out we can only have one or I
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: would have had more. So, but I want to announce
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: that my two granddaughters, who are four and six years old,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: a couple of days ago wrote their first song. And
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I haven't heard it yet. But you know, Neil Young,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I read an interview they said what's the most important
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: thing about a song? And he said, oh, the location
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: where you write it. Now, I had never heard that before.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: That was an intriguing idea. Well, so my granddaughters wrote
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: this song that I haven't heard yet. They went under
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the bed under the bed where the adults can't go,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: and that's where they were the song. So we'll see
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: see what happened.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: What does your son do for a living.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: He's an accountant.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So there are three kids in the family.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: How many boys, how many girls? And where are you
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: in the hierarchy?
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I'm the oldest, and then I have a younger brother
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: and then an even younger sister.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: And what are your brother and sister up to?
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Well, they're kind of retired. My sister counsel's people. And
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: my brother was physical plant manager for a hospital and
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: a school, and that's a person who takes care of
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: every physical item on the campus, all the houses, the
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: steamlines with a hospital, all the wiring everything, So he
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: can do all that and I do none of that,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: but he can fix anything, build a city. And they're
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: both incredible people. So I'm very lucky.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: So what kind of student?
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Were you?
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Good or bad? With grades? And were you popular? Were
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the shy kid? What we like?
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I was a nerd before nerd was
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: a word, and I was in the advanced class. You know,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: they had these you took a test and you were
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: advanced or not. And then so I was in a
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: group of other kids that were supposed to be smart,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: and I was not good at any sports. So I
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: didn't have that going for me. But I still had
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: a good I had a good thing at in school.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: It was okay, I don't know. So one day, one
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: day in high school, about senior year, one kid started
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: growing his hair really long, and this big, giant football
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: guy came up to him and said, Hey, how come
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: your hair's so long? You looked like a girl. And
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: the guy, Wayne McCracken, said, Hey, I'm expressing my individuality.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: And so the big guy John said, oh, oh you are.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: And then like the next week he started growing his hair,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: and then and then that was my gang and we
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: were long haired hippies from then on, you know.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: So, okay, was this a result of the Beatles you
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: were growing your hair?
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: No, I had nothing to do, you know, I don't know.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: So when did you graduate from high school?
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Sixty five?
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Sixty five? Okay, here's that book. Whatever happened to the
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: class of sixty five? What turned you on to music?
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Well? I was just into it because but my parents
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: had a record player and there was Oklahoma, you know,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: the music. There was Harry Belafonte. Most people in the country,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: a third of the people in the country had Harry
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Belafonte albums, and we would dance and sing around to that.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: So I was into it, and I would walk up
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: and down the street whistling every song I could think of.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: But then I was at a party in high school
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: somebody played the first Bob Dylan record and everybody goes,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know, and I was going, yes, yes, that's it,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: that's really cool. But I didn't play guitar until I
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: was about eighteen or nineteen because other people were doing it,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: and so most all the other musicians I know, by
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: the time they were eighteen, they'd already been in bands,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: you know. So I started really late. And then I
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: went to the coffee house and I would play a song,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: like try to play a blue song I heard, and
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: my friends would go, what did you do to that song?
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: So I'm just saying. I met this guy, Joe Faulkner,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: and we'd get stone and sit on the beach and
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: he would start playing a little pattern and he would
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: just make up songs for an hour. You go, look,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: there's a city in the burning clouds, and we're watching
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: the sunset, and he would just go on and on
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: and they were incredible songs. And one day I said, Joe,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: maybe we ought to write one of these down or something,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: you know, and he just looked at me and said, man,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: that would ruin it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: That would ruin it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: So I kind of got the idea from him, so
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I started writing. I just started making up my own songs.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Nobody could tell if I screwed him up or not.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: So okay.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: You know, living on the East Coast in that era,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: California was a dream and this was before you now,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: this is when you could be localized as opposed to
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: everybody knowing everything. So what was San Diego like in
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it was an outlier. There wasn't a fifties and sixties. Yeah,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: it was. It was a the fifties life. I mean,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: they built the first shopping mall right down by my house.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Of course I didn't know. It was the first college
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: grove and then the whole shopping mall thing that became,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the United States culture, and it was just
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: like you're in the fifties. We had it so good
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: because only one of your parents had to work, and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: we just thought all that was normal. And then later
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: on and then you could be a hippie. When I
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: moved out, we could just go to the back of
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: the grocery store and they were throwing away tons of
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: food and we would just get it, bring it to
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: the hippie pad and cook it up. But that was
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the beginning of the sixties. But the fifties was just
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: like kind of like Ozzie and Harriet or you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: just a whole different thing.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Was there any doubt you were going to go to college.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Well, not so much.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I went on a fast track to UCSD because Sputnick
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: had gone up and I was into science and I
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: had good grades, and I dropped out in a quarter
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: because guess what, it was really a lot of work.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: I just was not into that work. You know. You
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: had to go to the class. You know, you're supposed
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: to learn French in one year at the same time
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: as you're doing calculus, and then in the social sciences
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: class you only have three classes in that when you
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: had to read a book a week and write a
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: report on it. One a book by young you know
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: what I mean. And I was going no, I was
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: used to just skating by. So I dropped out in
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: a hitchhike to Texas to see a girl.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And how did you know a girl in Texas?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Well, she had been in San Diego and then she
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: moved to Texas.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, well we all hitchhiked back in that era. Yeah,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: how much was lonely? You were on the side of
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: street waiting for ride. You went Texas with your different
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: San Diego. What was it like hitch hiking to Texas?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Oh? Man, it was quite an adventure. And I did
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: quite a bit of hitch hiking. But this was by myself,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and it was lonely and it was cold. And then
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I got to I got to her place. She lived
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: in Far Texas p H A R R. And I
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: checked in this little hotel and and it was Christmas.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: It was Christmas night, so I said, she said, oh yeah,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: we're doing Christmas over here. So so I thought, okay,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I'll be by myself, and so I just took some
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: LSD and and then about an hour later she called said,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, my mom says come over. So I come
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: over and I'm just like anyway, that was a memorable moment.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: And then hitchhiking back I don't know. I just remember
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: being freezy cold and you meet a lot of people
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: and I guess you can't do it now, but it
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: was You're right.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: We all did this actually, I you know, because you
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: also you had to pick people up and return. And
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I remember in nineteen seventy four I picked up these
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: guys with their skateboarders skateboards and they started telling me
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: where to drive and they went on and there were
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: three of them in one of me. That was the
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: last time I picked people up. Yeah, man, it's there, okay.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: But you also talked about drugs. You know, a lot
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: of people across America really didn't mean to marijuana till
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: the late sixties. So how did you get turned onto
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: marijuana and LSD.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: H Well, my friend who was a who was into zend,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: he had he had researched drugs on the Internet and
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: things like PAOD and stuff, and we had found out
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: that that there was this stuff called LSD which was
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: contained in morning glory seeds. So there'd be like if
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: you take the three and seventy four morning glory seeds
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: and they have to be heavenly blue morning glories. They
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: can't be pearly white they have to be the right color,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: and you grind them up then you can get them.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You get them down and you're going to throw them
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: up later. But if you hold them down long enough,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: they have LSD. And that was my first experience with
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: any drug, was taken those and having this full on
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: LSD trip.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: About two weeks later at the park besides the high school,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: that was the first time I smoked a joint. So
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I actually had LSD first before anything else.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, going back to Texas, so you show up figuring
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: this is going to be great. Yeah, how was it
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: between you and the girl?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Well, nothing much. It was a nice little visit, but nothing.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Nothing materialized there. So I came back and then I
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: started going to a junior college and then worked my
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: way up to San Diego State College, which is now
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: a university.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: So did you graduate?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: I did. I went in. I had so many units
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: of different kinds they gave me a triple major and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: said you can get out of here now. So that's
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: and by the way, as far as drugs, I want
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: to mention that I did. I did get busted and
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: had a had a large jury trial and you know,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: and all that which is amazing considering now I can
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: go into a supermarket size dispensary and just buy some pot.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: And I've got my own brand of pot coming out
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: in January. Peaceful, easy feeling cannabis is going to be
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: for sale in Dreams dispensaries in New Mexico. So I
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: don't know, it's just kind of an amazing turnaround.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't know fifty years ago, six not quite
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: sixty to talk about legalizing dope, the fact that it
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: happened in our lifetime. Black Man was president.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, but it took way longer, way longer
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: than we thought it was going to be any year,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: and then it was like forty to fifty years.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about getting busted in. What you felt
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: and what your parents thought.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was horrible. And after the gig, my
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: friend and I went and sat on a park bench.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: We're smoking some weed and I'm going We're just sitting there, going, yeah, man,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: this is in the middle of the park. Nothing can
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: happen here. And all of a sudden, this police car
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: swoops down and boom, they got us. And I took
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: the little bag leading through it on the ground, you know,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: so they arrested us spent a couple of nights in jail.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I finally my parents found out. And then one of
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: my relatives was married to an assemblyman who recommended an
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: attorney for me, and so I got this attorney. And
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: my friend, who was from Canada, he just he had
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: a public defender, but then he later hired the guy
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: for the same amount of money. But my attorney was great,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: his attorney was not, and so I got off and
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: then he got found guilty and sent back to Canada.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: So there that ended his music career in the US.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: But my attorney was a guy named Peter Hughes, and
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: he was a prosecutor who had never lost the case.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: It was like a fantasy. And he had just turned
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: decided to be a defense attorney, and he came he
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: came up with this thing where the pot was on
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: the ground. So he went to the judge. He said,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: you have to split these two cases. You can't try
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: these guys together. And once he split it, he said, well,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: you can't prove that the pot was his. It could
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: have been the other guys. So the judge instructed the
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: jury that they had to find me not guilty. It
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: was like a Perry Mason or something.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, how much did the attorney cost and who paid him?
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I think my folks paid him. It was seven hundred
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: and fifty bucks.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Well that's relatively cheap even back then. Yeah, okay, so
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: you're in college, to what degree? Are you playing out?
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Really a lot every chance I could? Yeah, So I had.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: There was about four or five places, and they each
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: had what they called a hoot night, which was open
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: mic night, and eventually I would run the hoop night
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: and get you know, I get paid a fortune light,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: you know, fifteen bucks. And so I did three or
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: four of those a week, and that's how I amassed
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: the amount of money to pay my rent stuff. So
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I was doing that a lot.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: You graduate across that hurdle than what.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Gee, I'm trying to think what happened? I just oh, yes,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: So I went back to Right before I graduated, San
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Diego State College had built a student center and they
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: had a bowling alley in the bottom, but they didn't
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: have enough money to finish it. So I turned it
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: into a folk club and my brother and I built
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: a big sound booth. It was a huge room, and
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I started booking that and doing that and At one
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: point we decided to carpet the whole place. So I
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: found that when they take the carpet out of people's
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: houses at the carpet place, they take the old carpet out,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: and what they were doing was that they just piled
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: it up in the backyard. It was like a fifty
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: foot pile. So I thought, oh, they let me have it.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: So I took all these carpet, these carpets to the place,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: and I needed help, and Glenn Fry was staying with me,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: so he came with me, and he and I hauled
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: all these carpets over to the over to this place
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: which was called the back Door. So I ran that
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: for about a year, and that convinced me that I'd
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: rather be the player than the guy that runs the club.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: And so there was no issue of going straight after college.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: This is what you were going to do.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as I could keep making a living
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: at it, I guess it was my plan. And what
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: about the candle shop, Oh, that just did that for
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: a few years, sold candles at the Delmar Fair. It
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: was really a lot of fun. But then that let
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: that go. You know, where'd you get the candles from? Oh? Well,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: we made them, you know, that's the whole deal. We
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: got the wax and we hauled sand from the beach
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: and have these big pits. And we went to Alcohola
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: and found a huge old wax melting machine and we
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: made sand candles and they were gloriously cool and sold out.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: So that was a good adventure.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, just before we leave San Diego behind, to what
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: degreed did beach culture affect you and affect the town
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: in general? To what degree was the navy something palpable?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Well, the Navy thing was very strong, and it made
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: the whole city was super conservative, you know. And the
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: beach culture. Yeah, I mean I fell in love with
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: with the beach culture, but the Navy. So when I
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: grew my hair long one month, I wrote a remember
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: because I wrote a song about it. One month, I
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: got stopped by the cops twenty seven times in one
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: month just for walking down the street everywhere I went,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: you know, because there were police everywhere and they went
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: to curfews and they you know, it was. It was
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing San Diego. Then when the first
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: loven took place in San Diego, it was a major shock.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: I went to the park and all these people with
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: rainbow clothes and bubble and they were you know, I
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: just couldn't believe it was happening in San Diego.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, did you ever think of giving up?
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Not? Well, not too seriously. I I remember kind of
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: moving up to North County and walking on the beach
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: all the time, figuring out what I was going to do. Now.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: At some point I had always passed through Los Angeles
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: with my parents driving, and in those days it was
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: incredibly smoggy, and so you're driving you could sort of
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: see the Capitol Building, you know, the Tower of Records,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: but you couldn't really see anything.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: That was horrible.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm never going there. I'm never going to LA.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: So instead I said, I got to get into the
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: music business. So I moved to San Francisco for about
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: a year, and I went to Berkeley and lived there.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: And after about a year, jack there's no music business here,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: You're just like So finally I walked on the beach
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: and I said, well, I'm just going to have to
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: move up to LA for a while and try it.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: And and so at some point Jackson had turned me
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: on to this place in Sant Clement he called the
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Four Muses and he was playing there and I played
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: there a bit. I saw this band called Hank, and
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: they're a fantastic band. In fact, they're having a reunion
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: August fifth at the Coach House and uh, and I'm
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: going to put open for him there. And they're all
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: good friends of mine, So this band. So I moved
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: up to LA and I'm walking around. I see one
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: of the guitar player from Hank, Richard Steckel, and I go,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? He said, we both had moved
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: up there to make it, you know, to do so
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: what people.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Don't know, although this is probably I don't know what's
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: before I didn't realize I moved to California. The movie
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Five Summer Stories was considered to be the surf movie. Yes,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the soundtrack was by Honk. Yes, you know Blue of
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: your Backdrop and everything and everybody do it. I own
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the copy. It was like it never moved out of California.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: But Phenom then they got to deal with CBS. I'm
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: just going to tell that story, and that was kind
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: of the end. But that first album, Five Summer Stories, unvolved.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they are all incredibly, incredibly talented. So I'm
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: walking around, and Richard says, well, let's go see this guy.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: He's cool at the ice house, Jewels Shear. So we
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: went over there and the guy was just as a
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: solo performer. He was funny, his songs were amazing as singing,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: and Juels Sear plays the guitar in a certain way
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: that no one else in the world does. He only
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: plays he has his left thumb hooked over the top
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: of the guitar and he tunes the guitar in a
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: completely unique way that he invented. And he plays lead
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: and everything if he has to. It's kind of like
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: if he covers all the strings, it's a major chord,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: and if he only does four, it's a minor. And
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: then you know, he can do everything and he hears everything.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: So he was incredible, and so we set up a
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: thing to play together. We went over to let's see,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: I guess it was Doug Haywood's house, who was the
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: bass player for Jackson Brown, and Jackson was there and
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: we all sat down. So Richard Steckel played a song
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: called mild Pals, an incredible song's it's so amazing that
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: at Glenn's memorial service, I think Jackson and Don played
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: that song instead of one of their songs, It's so great.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: And then I had my song slow Dancing, I played
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Jules Sheer played a song called It's So Easy to
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Begin then and the harmony bland and everything was so magical.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Just that moment, that first day, I just knew we
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: had to do it. We had to do that somehow.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: So we got a gig at Quackingham's and we did
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: one gig and a manager came in and said, you're
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: you're too good for this, and then that was the beginning.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Within a couple of months, we had this band called
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: the Funky Kings.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, why were they called the Funky Kings?
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: It was just crazy because we were all nuts and
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: we just thought, yeah, we're kings and we're funky. You know,
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: maybe an unfortunate choice of name, but that's the way
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. And how long thereafter? And how did you end
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: up on Arista? Well, so I was.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: So David Geffen was was sort of taking care of me,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: So let's just's go back one second. For the two
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars you got a month, what'd you
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: have to deliver? Oh? Nothing?
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: It was just like a publisher advance and Peaceful Easy
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Feeling had already been recorded Warner Brothers, so I didn't
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: have to really do anything for that. So but Glenn
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: made an appointment for me to go see Clive Davis
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: at the Beverly Hills Hotel. You know, it was big time.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: So I go in, I play him a couple of songs,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: and Glenn said, I just wanted you to meet Clive.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: You know, he's a real record guy. So I get
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: home and I get a call in my little apartment
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: there and it's it's David Geffen. It's going Toeah. I
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: heard you went to see Clive. I go, yeah, Glenn
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: took me over there, and he goes, okay, well we're through.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: As we're through, I go, what do you mean we're through?
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I you know, I just went to see him. You know,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: I don't understand, because yeah, that's it. We're through. So
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: apparently there was a huge feud between Clive and David
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Geffen about Laura Nero or something. You know, they were enemies,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: and I had no idea about that. So that was
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: kind of a shock.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: I had the band The Funky Kings of Three of
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Us Jewels, sheer, Richard Steckel and myself and we had
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: a rehearsal studio. We went in there and and the
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: other two guys said, instead of being a trio, we
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: need a band. So Richard said, look, I'll call some
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: guys I know from Laguna. And it was Bill Bodine
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: on bass, Frank Coach and Nolan drums, and Greg Leese
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: on on pedal steel and guitars and stuff. So he
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: said they they're gonna come up tomorrow and we're going
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: to go over a couple of songs with them. So
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: that night I get a call from Clive Davis and
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: he says, I'm coming to town and what are you
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: up to? You got anything? I go, well, I got
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: this new band, and you know we're rehearsing tomorrow. He goes,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I'll be there. So he comes in. So in the
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: morning I come I've never even met these other guys.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: We play our three songs with these guys who I
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: don't even know as a band, and then I say, well,
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Clive's coming in. So he comes in with one or
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: two guys and he sits there. We play the three
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: songs and Clive says.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: So I go oh, okay, cool. Should Should I get
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: an attorney? And you know, should we talk to you?
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Do you want to hear some demos or something? Clive
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: goes no, I like it. You got a deal. And
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: I always loved and respected him for that, you know,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: he didn't have to ask everybody and run around. And
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: then he set us up and we recorded with Paul Rothschild,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: and then we got to make our album, and then
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: we went on tour with Holland. Oh.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: We went a little bit slower because Paul Rothschild, I
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: knew a little bit, was kind of the autocrat, you know,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: it was sort of his way or the highway. So
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: what was it like making the record?
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Well, it was fantastic. And I didn't get that from
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: him because I was a highly uneducated musician. And when
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: he had tried to sing a vocal, I had, you know,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I had no concept. I was always a solo guy.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know about your trying to stay in time,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: much less phrasing. So I would sing the thing differently
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: every time and they couldn't punch me in. And finally
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I remember Paul hitting the button going up, Oh, I
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: see Jack, I see you are what we call a
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: natural singer, so he was extremely kind and helpful, you know,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: and we were a lot of trouble Richard and Jules.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: We didn't believe in producers, and we were a lot
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: of trouble for him and drove them nuts. But he
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: was extremely nice to us and did an incredible job.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: He brought Barry Beckett in to play keyboard. It was great.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: So the album is done. Are you happy with the album? Yeah,
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: we loved it. And then I remember we go to
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: the Beverly Hills Hotel, we play it, playing it for
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Clive right, and he goes, well, I just hope you
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: guys are going to be able to handle the incredible success.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: So who doesn't want to hear that there's a key
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: of the music business going yeah, it's going to happen.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: And then you know, and then it didn't happen. And
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: many years later, Clive's given a speech in Sandy Diego goes, yeah, well,
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: of all the things I signed and thought we're going
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: to really do good, there's only two that I really
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: believed in that didn't happen, you know, and the Funky
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Kings was one of them. So we're famous.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I bought it. But in any event, so you finished
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: the record, you go on the road. When does it
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: become clear it's not working financially. Well, we started doing
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: a second record.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: And the band just kind of imploded, you know, we
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: weren't I wasn't as happy with the songs and just
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: the way it was going. And I kept defending, you know,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: because the record company is going, Jack, we want you
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: to write most of the songs, and I was going, no, No,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: these guys are great writers, we're a band and all that,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: you know. But by the time we got into recording
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: the second record, it just wasn't work. Came out, so
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: we split up.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you've been spending this. You just tell Caul
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Clive say the group broke up. End a story. Nice
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: to know you.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he he still had me under contract.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: So I made another record, a solo record. I went
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: to Muscle Sholes and lived there for three months. And
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: one of the Muscle Sholes rhythm section guy's Pete Carr,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: the guitar player. He produced my record. But it was
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: kind of cool because I did it at Fame Studio
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: and I got to hear all the stories about that
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: and I got to be in muscle Sholes. So but
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: that record, it seemed really good right until the end,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: and then it got a little too sweet for me
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: with mandolins and stuff, so I don't know, it's okay,
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: But and then it didn't Clive didn't respond to it
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: didn't have a hit. So so that was at the
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: end of me an airest Okay.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the Funky Kings. So the ben
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: breaks up, you still talk to those guys.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I remained friends with the fact the
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: Jewels went on and moved back to New York State,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: wrote some hits, but Richard and I remained in bands together.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: He was in my bands for many years and Greg
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Lease as well, played with me in my bands for
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: sixteen years, and we played like usually like once a
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: week at some club in Laguna or something. I've always
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: had a gig once or twice a week with my
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: own band, despite whatever else I was doing. So yeah,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: and I have tremendous respect for the writing and the
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: musicianship of those guys.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: So it ends with Arista. What's going on in your head?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Do you think, man, this is the end of my
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: solo career, my recording career. You say, you know, I'm
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: going to get another deal. I'm still going to become big.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Let's see. So yeah, I mean I didn't know what
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: was going to happen. And we had some I had
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: a manager, Larry Larson, and he managed Kenny Loggins and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: some other people. Later he managed Michael Jackson with a
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Victory tour and he was a great guy. So I
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: started going on the road doing opening act for people,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: which I did for years, and I opened, I opened
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: tours for all kinds of people. So I did that,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: and meanwhile, I don't know, nothing happened with the record deal.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I guess I was expecting maybe something might. But so
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: I opened for let's see, yeah, Dave Mason, Poko, Dolly Parton,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: I opened the Christopher Cross his whole first tour, Carla
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: bon Off, Emmy Lou Harris tour, Joe Walts tour. So
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: I did that for a long time. That was what
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Was what was that experience?
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Like? Incredible?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: And I was always solo. So I go out and
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: do a solo show before they came on, and I
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: got to meet all those people.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: It was great. Okay, But you know, back then, I
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: think people came for the opening act more than they
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: do today. But it's tough being the opening act.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, And it was funny because, uh, every act
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: turns out has a different audience, and so the same
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: thing night after night, the same thing works for that
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: for Christopher Cross's audience, which was all couples, whereas Joe
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Walsh's audience was all young guys. And in order to
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: get their attention, one night I figured out, I just
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: went on and said, Hey, what did all these petals?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: What did all Joe Walsh's pedals down here that he's
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: using and play guitar? Want me to tell you how
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: they're set? You know, And everybody's all of a sudden,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: I got their attention. He's got this because that they
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: were just there, you know, to see the magic of
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: how he played guitar and stuff. So uh, but yeah,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: they weren't coming to see me because the they were
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: already just coming to see the other act. But it
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: was a challenge and I had funny songs and I
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: had serious songs, So I don't know, I just learned
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: how to do it and I love doing it and.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: It was great. Okay, so tell me the story of
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Already Gone yeah.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: So back when I was running the back door at
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: San Diego State the coffeehouse, I really had heard a
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: lot of country music. Like we all listened to the
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: Japanese transistor radio, right we were supposed to be sleeping,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: and we under the covers we could hear and the
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: country station. So it was really cool and I wanted
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: to write a country song, but I really didn't have
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: a clue. So my friend Rob Strandlin, we had a
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: gig together at the back door, and his parents had
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: been country singers, and he had an old a Martin
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: that belonged to his mom, and he lived, you know,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: way out in the country and had a cowboy boots
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: and a dog and a horse, you know. And I'm going, yeah,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: he lived way out there. Well, actually lived about five
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: miles from me, but it was out in the country,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: you know. And of course, so anyway, we're at the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: back door and the back room it was the kitchen,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: and so we're in there kind of warming up, and
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: there's this huge refrigerators and so I opened one and
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: there's a white jug. So I took this white jug
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: out and this is before I never had a drink
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: or anything. So we started drinking out of this jug.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: We thought it was okay, and it turned out it
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: was hard cider in there, and we got kind of,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: you know, feeling really excellent, and wrote Already Gone in
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: just about twenty minutes, and then we went up on stage.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: There's a tape somebody taped us. Well, let's do it,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: you know, and we did it, and then the part
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: the chorus I always go woooo, which is like the
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: I wrote it, you know, because I was feeling so great.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: So and then somehow Glenn Fry heard it. And because
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think I did it much after it, I
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: did it. One other time. I went was playing in
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Escondido a place called in the Alley, and Jackson Brown
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: was playing. So I was there and opening for him,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: and I didn't really know him that well, but I said, Jackson,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: I just wrote this new song. I want you. You got
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: to come on and play it with me. So I
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: made him come on and sing Already Gone with me
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: and do woo and everything. And then somebody had recorded that,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: and just about two years ago they sent me a
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: tape and here's me and Jackson doing it, you know.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: But then I kind of forgot about it. And then
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: A few years later, Glenn calls me and he says, man,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: you know that country song you wrote?
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: And go, yeah, you know that one?
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he goes, I think that would make a great
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: rock and roll song. So I go, well, sure, you
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: know sure, And then he called me back the next
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: day and he said, held the phone up to the
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: speakers in the studio and there was like the Eagles
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: doing Already Gone and that was on their third record.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: So okay, by this time, did you own your publishing? No?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: I think Already Gone and Peaceful, Easy Feeling and Slow
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: Dancing are all owned still owned by Warner Brothers.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: So tell me about writing Slow Dancing.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's see. So I had a friend who
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: was an incredible entertainer, one of those guys who could
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: easily have been a superstar, but he didn't. He didn't
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: have the desire or whatever, David Bradley, and he called himself.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: He had a band called Joe Bummer and the ass
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Bites from Hell, and I wrote recently wrote a song
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: about him called who Wants to Be Famous? Like the
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: record company came and they said, Joe and this band
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: was going, yes, we're going to make a record, and
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: he goes guys who wants to be famous, I don't
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: want to do it. But he played at a club
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: called the Iron Horse, and I watched him. Everybody loved it,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: but they didn't get out on the floor to dance
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: until they played a slow song. So I thought, yeah,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: you know, there should be a song called slow dancing,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: you know. So then I started working on it. And basically,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: the girl who I traveled with in the Volkswagen bus
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two, you know, I was falling in love.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: We were falling in love, and so that the song
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: was about about that. And in just a couple of days,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I remember driving back from la and the car. Of course,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: you didn't have a cassette record or anything like that,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: so you just had to keep singing things over. No,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: I couldn't write it down, so I just had to
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: like remember it and then and then later she and
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: I got married and were still together. So that's the
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: that's how that song came about.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, I remember buying the Funky Kings album that was
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: an obvious hit, so ultimately it was a hit for
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Johnny Rivers. Tell us what you know? Were you disappointed?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Wasn't when it wasn't successful the first time around, and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: tell me about Johnny Rivers covering it.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it got up to number sixty on the Billboard chart.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: That's the only time I was ever singing on the
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Billboard chart. And I don't know what. I don't know
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: what happened after that, you know, I don't know why
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: it didn't continue. But what I later learned was Johnny
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: Rivers heard it and he said, man, if that wasn't
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: a hit, I would cut that. And somebody said, it's
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: not a hit, you know, So he cut it. And
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: then I think he spent quite a bit of time
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: traveling through the South going to radio stations and promoting it,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: and so he made it hit. So I was thrilled
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: because it wasn't going to be a hit for me,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: and his thing became a huge it. And then I
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: got to meet him and work with him, so that
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: was really cool.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: And there are multiple covers of that song. Is that
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: song still generate income?
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: I think so, I mean, yeah, I think it does,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: and Johnny's version and some of the others. I mean,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: I get these big thick things. And I used to
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: look at him with all the where each penny came
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: in but I don't even look anymore. I just kind
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: of go yeah. And then it got real complicated with
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: streaming and all that.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: So did you have you ever audited to see whether
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: you were paid accurately?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: Well, many years ago one of the guys who was
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: a manager, Nick phil Ames, he became an auditor, so
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: he audited Warner Brothers for me, and it turned out
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: that's the only time I did it. It turned out
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: they were paying two cents for each record, but the
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: statutory rate had gone up and I said, look, you guys,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: you're still paying two cents. It's a seventh cents now
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: or whatever, and they said, so, you know, so I went, oh, man,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: So I I thought, I'm going to have to sue
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: these guys. I just, I mean, I don't want to,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to get involved, but I just can't,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: you know, let them. And I was getting nowhere. So
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: I went to Lucy's l Adobe restaurant and invited j
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: D and Jackson Brown JD Salther because they both had
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: songs on the same record, and they also were under
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: Warner Brothers, and they also were only getting paid two cents,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: which they didn't know, and so together we sued and
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: then we went into mediation, and then there's this non
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: disclosure agreement, which you know what I mean, I don't
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: think why should there ever be a non disclosure agreement? Bob?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: What do you think? Well, that just means I mean,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: I could go on about this, but it just means
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: they don't have to admit fault. So there's no record
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: of it and there's no negative words. But you have
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: these two covers on these Eagles record, and as the
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: band goes on Hotel California in the long run, they're
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: right in all the material. Do you say, holy shit,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to get any covers anymore.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: Well, let's see, I mean, but from the Eagles, although
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: I've actually I eventually they got more covers.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I know, but I'm talking about that time
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: before they booke up the first time. I guess, so
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I wasn't thinking about it, and I was
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: writing with other people and get and by myself, and
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: I was getting other songs cut, you know. So I
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: mean at some point George Jones did one of my songs,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and I toured with Emmy Lou Harris and she eventually
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: did one of my songs. So I didn't think it
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: was over, but of course.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: The case hits.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: And then how did they get I mean, you were
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: on the road with Emmy Lou Harris, but George Jones,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: how did these people who covered their records? Was your
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: publisher being active? How did they find out about them?
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: I never got a cover of anything from a publisher.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: So and George Jones, it took me years to find out.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: I wrote that song with Bobby Whitlock and he did
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: such a killer demo because he's an amazing singer, and
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: and I go, how did ever get to George Jones?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: And then years later my friend Ralph Murphy at ASCAP
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: told me that he's the one who sent it to
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: George Jones. So I finally found out how that happened.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: But other things, I think I was playing and people
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: heard somehow they heard the songs, and that's that's how
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: it happened.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the Eagles break up. Glenn Fry is the
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: first to put out a solo album, No Fun Allowed.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: How did you end up getting involved in that project?
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Glenn and I had of course, we'd known
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: each other a long time. I didn't see him that
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: much when the Eagles were happening. He was incredibly busy,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: but he called me and said, yeah, I think we're
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: gonna stop doing the Eagles once. Come over and see
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: if we can write some songs because he needed, you know,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: he needed a new songwriting partner. So I came over
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: to his place on I think it was Lookout Mountain
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: Court or something. He had this a frame house that
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: James Cagney had rented, and I came in and I
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: just got a video of him playing with the Spreckles
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: theater where he talks about this stuff. But I came
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: in and he had one hundred candles burning and he
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: had two bottles of red wine. I said, Glenn, I
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: don't drink wine. He goes, well, this is songwriter wine
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: and you have to have some of this. And I go, so,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: what about the candles? You had a date Later? He goes, no, man,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: there's a muse and we're not the only guys trying
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: to write a song tonight. So we've got to make
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: this really cool so she'll come down and hang with us,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: you know. And so that night we wrote the One
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: You Love. Because I had been trying to learn some
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: chords out of the Mickey Baker jazz guitar book, and
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: in order to learn that I could learn him. So
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: I made up a little song with him, and I
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: showed him the chords, and of course Glenn just looked
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: at me doing it once and he had it, and
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: then so we wrote that song. We also wrote I
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: Found Somebody same night, and so according to what he
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: said at the Spreckles Theater gig, he said, so I
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: didn't look anymore and we just you know, and we
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: had never written before together, but that was it. And
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: then I wrote with him for fourteen years and when
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: he made the albums, I was always there because he
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: just allowed me to be there and I was learning
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: how to do it and being part of the adventure
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: and stuff. So that was a glorious time. I guess
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: we wrote about fifteen songs that were in the top
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: one hundred, you know, I thought that was and then
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: the Eagles got back together. So but it was unbelievably cool.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Tell me, my favorite song was the opening I Found Somebody.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: To remember how that came together?
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to remember who we we eddie something.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: We listened to some other record and it was the
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: groove on that record, you know. And then so we
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: sort of grabbed that groove and then uh, geez, beyond that,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure, you know, it just fell together real quickly.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: It was the first night or first night we did that.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: And how about Smugglers Blues?
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Smugglers Blues. Well, I have had a little house
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: in Hollywood for many years. That's where we wrote most
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: of our stuff. And then Glenn came down to Ensinnita's
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: and I had a studio room and he had purchased
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: with irving A's off the rights the movie writes to
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: a book called Snowblind about the cocaine trade all ready. Yeah,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: so uh and then the movie never happened, but we
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: were going to write a song for the movie, which
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: we did, and I just remember we had my I
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: think I had eight track tape recorder, but I'm talking tape,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: you know. And and Glenn's going, I think I should
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: have some cool slide, you know, And and then you know,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: you just started telling the story trouble on the street tonight.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: You know, the blood began to spill that. You know,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: here's your ticket suitcase in your hand. So it's cool
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: having the story. And then he had the cool slide,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: and and also we got to say things about the
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: war on drugs, so called war on drugs. You know,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: we got to say things. And then it turned out that,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: you know, Glenn always wore the hippie clothes, but then
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: when he got big, he'd say, well, I gotta He
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: had a phrase for it, I gotta I got put
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: on some suits for the man or something. So he said,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: you know, I think when I fly first class, I
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: should wear a suit because you never know who you're
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: going to be sitting next to. So he sat next
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: to Michael Mann and who was planning to do Miami
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: Vice TV show. And then our two songs ended up
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: on the soundtrack, and the Smugglers Blues song they used
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: it in an episode where Glenn was acting and he
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: got to be the pilot who flies the stuff in.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: So it was just incredible.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: What about the other song that was on the album,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: You Belonged to the City.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I just remember, I think, oh, I know,
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: we were writing that because they sent us a script
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: to one of the episodes where one of the guys
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: goes back to New York where he's from and he's
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: walking the streets and they wanted a song for right there.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: So I remember Glenn's got these chords and then he's going,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: you belong to the city, and I go, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: that's it. Boom, and then we just we just put
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: it together for that scene, right, you know, right from
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: the story and of course Glenn, you know. And then
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: I was using a thing called the Lynn nine thousand
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: drum machine, and it was the first thing where you
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: could sequence other instruments, you could plug in and sequence.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: So we sequenced the whole thing in my little room
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: and that's when Glenn started calling me nine thousand, and
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: that's how I got my moniker Jack nine k you know.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: And then he gave me production credit on the thing
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: because we just took that sequence and took it up
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: the Hawkwelinsky studio where he hooked up all these machines
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: and we had a horn player come in and Glenn
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: sang it, and then that was it. Because Glenn could
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: hear the whole record in his head when he was
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: writing a song. You can just hear all the parts,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: everything he wanted. And that's why they called him the
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: loan arranger.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: So right, right, well, that's great, and I know he's
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: called the loan arrangeer. I didn't know why, so what's
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: it like? Okay, In those particular cases, there was an incentive,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: you know, there was a potential movie, et cetera. Do
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: you ever write with someone We walk in and it's
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: pretty much cold.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Most of the time, and even with Glenn,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: he'd have an idea about let's write an album about
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: this or something. But most of the time, A lot
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: of times it's not good to bring your own idea.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I have a million ideas, but it's better
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: to let the other guy come. So one day I
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: got a call and it was turned out to be
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: Bobby Whitlock. He was right down the street, and I
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: had no idea who Bobby Whitlock was. Of course he
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: had played with Derek and the Dominoes and with Eric
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: Clapton and all that. But he just said hey. He had,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: you know, this southern accent and said, I'm right down
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: the street. I want to write some songs. So I
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: later found out what he did was he came to
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: la he looked at the billboard chart. He called he
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: called the number one songwriter people had the number one
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: song just called them. They weren't home, and you belonged
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: to the city. Was number two. So he called and
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: he had my number. He called me somehow, and I said,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: come on over. So he came over and we just
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: sat there at the kitchen table and and I looked around.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: I said, he said, what are we going to write about?
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: I go, well, we got four walls, two chairs in
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: a doorway and and that's the first line of the
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: song called someone that I Used to know. And that
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: song was eventually cut by George Jones. So it's just
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: kind of songs are just there in the air. Everybody's
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: mind is so full of billions of things coming in
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: all the time and being processed that it's always just
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: sitting there, you know what I mean, if you're willing
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: to just get out of the way.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: So if you're sitting with another person in the room,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: you have inspiration, to what degree do you let the
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: other person say what you you know? Let's say you
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: come up with some of the other prinsons, it goes
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: that sucks you then defend and go no, no, I
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: really think I have something here, or you just okay,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: I got another idea.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Boy. That's a good question, I mean, and it's it's
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: a challenge. I mean, you have to co writing is different.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: I love co writing, you know, I love writing by
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: myself too, but you have to have a lot of respect,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: you know, for the other person. You might go, this
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: is an incredible line, like Glenn and I. You go, well,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: this is an incredible line. But this line does not
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: serve the song. So you just have to go, Okay,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: I can use it for something, el whatever, I'll just
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: put it aside. And you have to You have to
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: let the other person in and have some confidence. Maybe
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: it won't work out in the end. But co writing
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: is different, and a lot of times you're writing with somebody,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: like if they're an artist and they're going to do
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: the song, well, then you have to let them in
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: and have a lot to do with it, you know,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: so they can make it their own and relate.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: To it stuff.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: So that's a challenge.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: How do you know when it's finished? And is your
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: goal to finish it while the two of you are there? Wow?
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Well, well, the first thing is it's like one of
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: them may questions of all art. How do you know
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: when it's finished? You know? So now in Nashville, I
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: always thought I'd like to do the Nashville Way, which
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: was like the real building where they just say, hey,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: write a song for this guy, and you write one.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: I thought that'd be great, But eventually, years later I
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: went to Nashville and tried it. And you get in
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: the room and yeah, they want that song to be
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: done because you have a four hour window. You book
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: the room and then and it's going to be done.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: If you're writing with one of those guys, you know
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: it's going to be done. And then I've I said, well,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: what happens to all these songs? You must write thirty
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: forty songs a month. What happens, Well, one or two
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: of them get demoed and then they get pitched. I go,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: what about the other ones? I just wasn't used to that.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: When I write something, you know it's personal, and I
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: just so, no, don't. I don't usually try to get
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: it done while while I'm sitting there, and then I
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: take the words, I look at them later and I go,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: I could throw this out, I could tweak this, I
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: could change that, but I guess to really do it.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: The final thing is like I sing it. I sit
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: there and play it and sing it, and then some
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: little part won't feel right, you know. So ultimately, all
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: my first years were spent in the coffee house. Now
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: there was almost never anybody in the audience, you know,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: But so I got very comfortable with being up there
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: and playing things that were unfinished or but I could
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: read even with a few people. You can just read
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: what's working and what's not. And I don't think people
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: do that now. They don't have that experience, you know,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: playing for people a lot who are listening, and you
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: can just so I'm talking about when the song's done,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: and that's one of the ways you tell, you know,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: you kind of just oh, I'm singing it to these people,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: and it feels right all the way through, and it's
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: all smooth and working.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: So okay, So how much do you play out now?
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: I was doing a touring a bit like going back
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: East every weekend before the pandemic, but of course that
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: stopped for a couple of years, and I'm still not
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: anxious to get on a plane and travel that much
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: right now. So I'm playing kind of as much as
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: I can around San Diego and La But of course
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: there's only about fifteen twenty million people here, so you know,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: it should be enough. And there's a place called Humphreeze
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: and seats fifteen hundred people, so I open for American
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Boss Gags and then there's the Belly Up the coach House,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: and so anyway, I'm playing as much as I can.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: And now I think I'm going to go back to
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: getting a weekly gig, and because otherwise it's I'm missing
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of the fun which I got into in
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: the first place, which is playing live. And you know,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: now you can have a weekly gig and you can
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: make it a stage at show or put it on
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: the internet, so you don't really have to go all
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: over the world. But so the answer is, yeah, as
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: much as much as I can.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: So does that work for you? To do it virtually?
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: It's one thing if you have no choice because of COVID. Yeah,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: But to what do we doing it virtually? What's that like?
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: Playing live live compared.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: It's not It's not the same at all because I
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: do the beach jams and I record them, put them
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: up there and people respond. But no, it's not the same.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: Playing live is a completely different thing. And I think
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: it's going to become more valuable once, you know, once
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: my AI hologram is out there playing too, it's going
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: to be I think you know, somebody's going to go, hey,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: this stuff is like done by humans, and that's going
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: to be a special thing that people want to see.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's something about playing live and it doesn't
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: have to be a big show. It's just qualitatively different
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: than anything else. And bottom line is kind of what
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: I got into this for and what I love the most,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: although I love the other parts too.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: You know. So you essentially had an instructional series online
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: tell us about that.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: I've done a few things like that. One was called
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: go Write One, and I thought, well, I you know,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: Glenn Fry taught songwriting at UCLA and I taught with
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: him sometimes and then he did it in New York.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: But I don't know about teaching people songwriting. I've done that.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make me happy. I don't know how much
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: you can teach, you know, So just go write one.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: It doesn't tell you how to rhyme or do the
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: verses or the struck. Sure, it just tells you how
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: to get in the mood. And I did about forty
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: of them, you know, And so I did. I put
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: that up and not too much happened, and then I
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: had some podcasts. Not too much happened with that, so
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: I just kind of try everything.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: They'll give me two tips about getting in the mood.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I wish I could remember the brilliant stuff
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: I came up with. It was like, well, you know,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: get your stuff, get your batteries working, you know, so
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: you can record and oh man, yeah, I'm not thinking
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: of it right now.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well I'll talk about myself and there's certain things
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: that happened. I'm immediately inspired. But my best idea is
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: cause when I'm doing something else, I'm in the shower,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: I was hiking last night, wasn't thinking about it at all,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden things became clear in my mind.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: To what degree is that your experience were as opposed
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: to sitting down and saying I'm going to write something.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And Glenn used to say, we're writing a
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: song and some other song gets jealous and wants to
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: butt in. You know, it's always like, you know, yeah,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: when you're doing something else and it triggers some thoughts
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: and yes, that's definitely definitely there. You know.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: So when you did those albums with Glenn, how long
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: would it take to write the songs? Would they all
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: be written at once or multiple times.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: We'd write a lot of them in a clump so
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: we could go in and start recording, but then we'd
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: you know, take a few days out to write some more. Yeah,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: as we went along.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: So you would go to some club unannounced and work
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: out on stage.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: Oh no, me and Glenn. Yeah no, no, Glenn, Glenn,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: that's me. I would always do things like that. But
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: Glenn never presents anything unless it's a done deal and
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: perfect and great.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Oh I thought you, I said club, So I misunderstood.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: So tell me about your Beach GM series.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: So I'm so excited about it, and it's so strange
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: during the pandemic. Well, it's always been part of my
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: process to video when I play, because I always make
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: up songs and my idea as well. I'll make them up,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: come home and then I work on, you know, so
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: video so I can remember them. So I started doing
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: that at the beach during the pandemic. Come home, throw
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: the ones away that didn't work, type out the lyrics
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: to the other ones, and I have They can't see
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: this book, but you know, you know, this huge three
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: ring binder is full of song lyrics. You know, so
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: like one year, this last year, during the pandemic. I
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: made up more songs than I have in my whole life.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: So then I decided started listening to these things and going,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: it's kind of they're great. I started thinking, these are
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: great songs even though I just made them up. And
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: if it's a beach jam, the way I define that
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: is a song that I make it up on the spot.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think about it ahead of time. I don't
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: go back and do it again, I don't edit it.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: It just comes out. So I guess it's like performance art.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: It's performance art, and it kind of goes back to
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: the beatnik eraror where they just made up things on stage.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: And I've been posting about one of those a day
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: for about a year now.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: So then.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm at the beach and some guys there's a
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: lot of beach people there, some homeless guys, some super
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: wealthy guys, all kinds of people from all wah and
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: some of them like to like to play drum sticks
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: on the sidewalk, or they played the jumbe or something
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: that some of them their time isn't very good. There's guitar,
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: and I just let everybody play in jam with me sometimes,
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: and so I do a lot of that. And then
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: my friend I saw a guy in a club Jesse, London,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: and he plays with me a lot, so I sit
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: in at his gigs and I started doing this live.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: So I go live to a club and I make up.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: I play for three hours and I make up all
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: the songs all night. And I was thinking, I'm not
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: gonna be able to do it. But as soon as
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: I throw the switch, it's kind of like with your column,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, I don't know what I want
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: to write about. As soon as I throw the switch, Bob,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: the song comes out, and I don't know where it
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: comes from, but hey, I never did know where it
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: came from, but it just it just comes out. And
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: then when I listen back, I'm thinking, well, at this point,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: I got really confused. I didn't know what the rhyme
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: and I didn't want this goes. But then that all
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: happened a split second, It turns out and it falls together,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm just constantly amazed that these things are great.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: The videos, they're interesting. Most things now are not real.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: They're produced, they're put together, they're designed, and maybe this
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: is all real. It's more real than anything else now
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: it's too much for people. I mean, I know that.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: I was thinking, well, what if Bob Dylan put out
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: one or two songs a day, Jack, would you listen
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: to it? He's your favorite guy and probably, But as
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: soon as I heard one, I wasn't interested. I mean,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: it's just way too much. But I can't help that
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: because from my end, I'm doing it and I look
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: at this, I go, wow, that's a great song. I'm
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: just going to put it up, so I don't know
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: if anything can happen. And and Bob, when they advise
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: you to get more viewers, they say, look at other
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: people doing the same thing, and then see what they did.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: You know, I can't find anybody else doing that. And
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: I'm sure other people can do it, they don't want to, maybe,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: but I can't find anybody else doing it. But I
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: thought about quitting, but I just can't. I love it,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: I'm into it. It seems to be working. And now
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: I'm still writing other songs, making a record and doing
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: other stuff the regular way. But this has sort of
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: consumed me as this is my work of art. Now.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: You know, Let's say I went to the gig, would
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: I be able to tell that you're making it up
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: on the spot.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I don't think so. I don't
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: think so people, nobody unless I mention it. Nobody ever,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: I don't think you'd be able to tell no, no,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, a lot of people. And you've mentioned earlier writing
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: a song, you're playing a chord and you're singing and
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: you're going like this, and then maybe you change a chord.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: I mean you just say, okay, he's they flip the switch,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: something will come out? What about changes? What about choruses?
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that?
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not in a lot of ways. I'm not
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: very musically educated, like, but all my life I've tried
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: to go, well, how how can I get chords to
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: fit together? So that's kind of been my emphasis. How
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: do I get the knowledge to just make things up?
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: And so I don't know a lot of the songs,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: I'll have the same groove. But if I just put
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: one other groove and learn one other new chord, or
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: learn one little way that Lightning Hopkins played with only
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: a thumb and a finger and never used everything else,
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: and that gives me some new rhythms. You just learn.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: It's everything in life, you take everything you know and
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: you add one new thing and that thing compounds. And
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: so that's what I've always tried to do, and somehow
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: I can really do it. It's just like I've got
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: the idea of the song, and what I'm talking about
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: is flowing, and then I got the melody, and then
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: I got the chords and the rhythm and the changes,
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: and it just it just all flows out. And then
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: I got this guy a lot of times, Jesse London,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: who's playing guitar with me, and somehow he's following me,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: and I have no idea where I'm going next, you know, so,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: and i'd like to start doing with the whole band,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, you throw away the ones that
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: don't work. Sometimes I miss a rhyme horribly, you know
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: what I mean, And I would go back and fix it,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: but I go, well, I can just go do five more.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: But the time it takes to fix it. Now, if
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: I refine the songs. And I went in and got
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: a band and record him took a couple of months.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think anybody's going to hear it anyway,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: you know. So that's one reason I just kind of well,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: this is a new era of the Internet. People just
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: going to listen to it once or whatever. I might
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: as well just do what I like. I can put
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: him out there and hope somebody loves it.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: How do you decide what the subject matter is? Lyrically?
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: When I sometimes I have a thought, you know, I'm
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: sitting at the beach and I see a dog, and
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: so I start writing, big dog come in my way,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: Big dog coming my way. You know, a lot of
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: times when I pick up the guitar, I start playing,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: even at the gig, I have no idea what I'm
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: going to talk about, and then I'll sing one phrase
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, the whole idea of what
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: the song might be about pops into my head and
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: I just do it.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: And in terms of your everyday life, what do you
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: do other than this?
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: You read?
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: You said you weren't a sportsman. Do you exercise? What
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: do you doing? To what degree does that inform your songwriting?
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: Well, the major intellectual pastime for the whole United States
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: is watching TV, and I do my share of that,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: you know, And I read. I read quite a bit
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: and everything I just reread. Little Sister Raymond Chandler, you know,
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: and I read some stuff about the music business and
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: biographies of Einstein, and a lot of fiction and science
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: fiction William Gibson and all those guys. And so yeah,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: I do a lot of reading, watching TV. I swim
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: a little in the morning. Then I go over to
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: the beach for the sunset, make up some songs, come home,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: have dinner, and then after dinner, I sit there and
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: listen to what I made up and type out the
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: lyrics and post them. And then you go every day,
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: almost every day. It's not like I have to, but
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: see I'm in the head. I like to go down
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: and watch the sunset. Anyway. If I don't, I feel
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: like I somehow missed the day.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: You know, Okay, if you go down to the sun set,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: you write one song, or you write multiple songs or
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: what does it depend.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: Upon multiple songs? Because basically I get the guitar out
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: and set up the set up the iPhone on a
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: tripod with my little mic, and then I just played
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: till I get tired of it. So I might get
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I might write seven songs a day,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: or eight or three or four, and then I get
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: home and I go, Now, these these aren't very good
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: and throw them away, and I keep and I'll be going,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: maybe I better stop doing this, and all of a
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: sudden I'll see one and I'll listen to it and go,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this is incredible, this is really good.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: So it keeps me going. So yes, I can write
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: multiple songs a day instead of when I started, which
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: was like ten songs a year. Oh I don't know
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: how that happened.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: But would you you're making a new solo album, you
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: send me a couple of tracks, Is that whole different experience?
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: Or any of these songs going to be on the album?
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of these songs are going to be
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: in the album. I've taken a couple and if I
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: do work on them, generally, what it is is like
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: they have maybe too many verses they don't need, so
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: I throw a couple away. But yes, so I'll put
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: a couple of those on there. Okay, Now the experience
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: is totally different. You referenced this early or how many
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: people are actually going to see the video hear the video?
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: So you're still making records. A lot of people don't
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: even bother anymore. Who are of our evantage? What keeps
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: you motivated into what degree? Are you depressed that you're
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: an artist? You want people to experience your art, but
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: inherently there's so much stuff it's difficult.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: To reach people.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a hell of a question, in't it. Boy. Well,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: I keep moving. I'm trying every possible thing. For some reason,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: my wife says, you know, you don't have to do anything,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: you can just do nothing. And sometimes I slump into that,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: but mostly, you know, if I see something on the Instagram, Oh,
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: here's a cool guitar. Oh here's a thing you can do,
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just interested. That's what I'm interested in.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the flow of creativity and the desire to do
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: that and the satisfaction of doing that. And then the
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: other end is to complete the circle. You want some
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: human beings to see and appreciate and maybe like what
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: you did. Those are two different things. I don't know
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: what point is. At one point, I say, well, how
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: many people? How many people do I need to see
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: this song, you know, to feel like it's okay, you know,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: And then I thought, well, it depends, you know. If
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: I got one comment saying this is a great song, well,
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: if it was James Taylor, I go, Okay, that's all
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: I need. But and I guess maybe I don't have
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: very many subscribers. But you know, like if I add
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: up the Instagram and the Facebook and all that, maybe
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: maybe a thousand people. You know, it's hard to tell
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: because most of the numbers on the internet. I'll tell
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: you how you're doing, are big fat lies. They're just
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: big fat lies designed to make you think it's happening.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: But the comments, somebody really usually has to write the comments.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: So it's just it's the dilemma of our time because
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: there used to be entertainers or performers or creators, and
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: then there used to be people who, you know, we're audience,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: and now everyone is a star. You know, everyone is
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: a performer, and the only way to really interest them
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: is to get them in on the action and let
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: them do part of it. So it's just so different
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: than it's ever been, and it's going to become even
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: more radically different. So what can we do. We just
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: have to roll with the flow.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. And in terms of your friends, I find a
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: lot of my friends. There's a friend of mine calls
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: them the civilians. They're retiring, they're done Okay, So to
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: what degree does that affect you this stage of life?
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: Do you find you're the only person working. What's it
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: like amongst your friends and how to impacts you.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's a few friends that are frustrated, you know.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and some people are retiring.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have a hobby that i'd rather do,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: so I'm not going to tire until I'm just too
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: tired to do it or something.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: My friend's writing a book called The Frustrated Creative, but
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to be able to solve
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: the problem. You know. It's just like you have to,
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: you have to adjust your mind and say, oh gee,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: I don't care. But that's kind of a lie, you know,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: especially after having work that so many people are still
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: listening to. And yet but then I think, well, I
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: can't get anybody to listen to what I'm doing. But
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: then again, if you know, if Willie Nelson cut my song,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: or if all these people they're not on the radio either.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: So there, and so I asked an expert what should
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: I do to get an audience? And the expert was you,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: And you wrote back very kindly and said maybe you
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: can get some songs cut in Nashville, you know. So
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: I tried to do that, but that's not really happening
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: anymore either. It's so I don't know if people want
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: to retire. I just don't think I'll be happy if
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: I'm not creating some kind of musical thing.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: It's almost like I feel they're like, yeah, I just
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: had this breakthrough where I can do stuff way more
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: and better than I've ever done it before, you know,
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: But I don't have any Eagles to make the song's hits,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and I don't see that happening.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: Well. I mean, the Eagles album that you had a
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: couple of songs on came out, what two thousand and seven,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: and the world has already changed since then sixteen years.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: Even if the Eagles cut it, yeah, very few people will.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, the Eagles is a group, but who you know,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: let's not go down that road.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: Other than the when they did Long Road out of
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: Eden and then they were going to play and they
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: cut a couple of my songs on there, but they
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: were going to play and I said, Glenn, how many
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: songs are you going to do off your new album? Well,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: we're just going to do two because nobody wants to
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: hear them. That's when they get up and go to
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: the bathroom when we do the new songs. So and
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: then I don't think they're interested in doing another record,
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, Well, the great.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: Thing is you're making music. You've seen the other end
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: of it, whereas a lot of the people, you know,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: we're bitching and moaning that things are different. Listen, it's
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: frustrating for me too, you know, as I say, used
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: to be top down. It's not top down anymore anyway, Jack,
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: I think we have come to the feeling, the end
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: of the feeling we've known. Just to make sure because
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: we went back and forth an email. Is there anything
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't cover that you haven't urge to talk about.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I just have to say, after
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: reading you for years and now, it's just been a
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: great pleasure to talk to you. Thank you.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: Well. You know, you have this sense of humor that
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: is just so great and I can see why everybody
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: wanted you around and in the room. In addition of
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: writing these great songs and any of it, and it's
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: really you're an inspiration for people. You got to keep
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: doing I mean, especially today, when people don't do it
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: for the music. They do it to become famous or
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: to sell something out else. It's just not enough the music.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: But as you say, it's continuing to evolve. In any event, Jack,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for doing this.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: Thanks Bob, it has been great. Thank you so much.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: You'd bet until next time. This is Bob left sets