Latest / Butterfly Days w Tami Jorden / Aging Well: What a Harvard Dermatologist Wants GenX Women to Know

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Aging Well: What a Harvard Dermatologist Wants GenX Women to Know · Butterfly Days w Tami Jorden

• 0:02
  [Tami Jorden] A really cool conversation today with Dr. Mary Alice Mina. She's got the alphabet after her name. Go look it up. She is a Harvard-trained double board certified dermatologist and dermatologic surgeon. She's the co-owner of Balcom and Mina Derm Surgery in Atlanta and the host of The Skin Real, a globally ranked podcast that breaks down skincare myths and helps people make smarter, thoughtful decisions. Science-based, she uses a science-based approach to health, aging, and the aesthetic medicine. And through her podcast, Educational Content and Patient Care, she empowers people to simplify skin care, cut through the misinformation, and feel confident in their skin at every age. She is great fun to speak with and to learn from. And I hope. that you feel like you learned a lot in this n upcoming few minutes. It's a great conversation and we're happy to have you join us.
• 0:00
  [Tami] Welcome to my realm. This is Tammy Jordan and you're listening to Butterfly Days. You are in Atlanta and you have a studio a practice there, correct?
• 0:11
  [Dr. Mina] Correct. Yeah. Actually I have two practices.
• 0:15
  [Tami] Wow. and they're they're both in Atlanta?
• 0:19
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, one so I have a a practice I joined my my partner right out of fellowship, Bachmanoderm surgery, where we do a lot of MOSE surgery, skin cancer surgery. I took where Dr. Pimple Popper ATL because we do a lot of cysts, lipomas, and big, big surgical procedures as well as cosmetics, but a lot, a lot of skin cancer. And it's an insurance-based practice. We're really busy, have a great team. But as I am getting older, my And as I've been delving more into my podcast and and sort of thinking about healthy skin sort of for the long term and and things I need to do, I found a lot of people just had a lot of questions, and our current healthcare system doesn't really allow for people to sit with me and have lengthy conversations and talk about preventative skincare and holistic skincare and things like that. And I wanted to create a space where people could do that where they're not just coming to see me because they need something cut out or injected. and so I created a sort of the it's like an offshoot of my podcast. It's the Skin Reel Cerembi. It's in a wellness community south of Atlanta, about 45 minutes south. And it's kind of my my place to to breathe and to really spend time with my patients. I don't do any surgery out there but really want to help people come up with a plan and a strategy because I feel like a lot of times now it's you know people will tell me like I go here for this I go there for that I tried this because my friend did it you know and I I say we're on this hot girl hamster wheel we're so terrified of what's gonna happen to us if we give up any of these procedures and services and self you know self care that we're doing yeah that we're running we're running ourselves amok and and we're driving ourselves crazy and we don't really know what's working and what's not. We're spending a lot of time a lot of money and we're not even getting the results we want. And so I'm hoping that by creating a place where you can actually come and see me and spend half an hour, 45 minutes talking with me, coming up with a plan that we can get beyond just these like quick fixes and these sort of gimmicky things that are out there and and really have transformative skin.
• 2:42
  [Tami] Yeah. I love that and I really am supportive of the getting off the hot girl hamster wheel because you know, I just I dropped a podcast recently that was talking about how Jen Jones, which is nineteen fifty five to sixty five, and then Jen X, which is sixty five to eighty, born during those ages, they're not that old. that We were the first generation of girls who were told we could be anything we wanted to be. Prior to that, it was not said to women that it was even a possibility. And not that it actually was available. I think a lot of our experience is that it wasn't yet available. But we were the first generation of girls who were told that and advertising kind of was starting to take over in a way in society had not been before. And it was, okay, you can do what you want, but you better look good doing it. You must look young, you must be pretty, you you know, all of the things and that sort of dovetailed together for for these women, all of us, to put a whole lot of pressure on, you know, what we look like and that we have to plot a path forward and that my God, that you should age, the worst sin of all for a woman, right?
• 4:03
  [Dr. Mina] Like the the worst insult is like you look old, right? Like
• 4:06
  [Tami] Yes. Or even I have to tell you at my age I'm starting to get you look great for your age and I'm like, I'm not sure that that's the compliment you're thinking. And what age do you think I look? You know, that so I think we're playing with a lot of social baggage on this, certainly. But what are you hearing what are you hearing from the women that you see? I mean, what's your common what's the commonalities there?
• 4:34
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, I I think in general and I'm I was born in nineteen eighty. I so I feel like I'm on this weird cuss where I don't really feel like I'm Gin X because by the time I got out of my medical training I I felt like I was joining the workforce with more of the millennials, but but I definitely grew up without, you know, I I had internet I guess in high school, right? So I definitely remember a childhood without the internet, without cell phones, things like that. Yeah. so so I'm I'm forty five and I feel like around four I'm starting to get questions from my friends and patients, thinking like, okay, wait a minute. And and me personally too. 40 was it was the pandemic. And I remember thinking, like, my gosh, I wasn't where I thought I would be. And it I sort of felt like, okay, I'm at like a mid mark in my life, right? Hopefully. And and do where, you know, I was kind of like burning the candles at both ends. I wasn't taking care of myself. I was starting a career, starting a family. And like I put myself last and I had gained ten pounds and I was like, you know what, I don't like, you know, where I'm going. I felt like I I could kind of fake it until about forty and then y you can't really fake those bad habits anymore. You can't run away from And yeah, started like all of a sudden I'd never noticed my neck before. All of a sudden I'm like, like that looks different, right?
• 5:56
  [Tami] Yeah.
• 5:56
  [Dr. Mina] Like I never or my kids will like grab my arm and they'll be like, it's so wrinkly I'm like, Okay, that th never had that before, right? So
• 6:05
  [Tami] Yeah.
• 6:07
  [Dr. Mina] Right. They they've actually done studies showing there's sort of like two pivotal periods where we age, men and women, which I thought was interesting. I thought women it would be a little bit later, but it's around forty-four and then it's around your early sixties. That these are kind of pivotal periods where we can see dramatic changes. and I sort of thought for women it might be older with with menopause and everything, but I do find we're we're talking more about midlife and like there's so many women now, like we're aging. Aging there's this whole focus on not just like living longer but aging well. And it always cracks me up to think about the Golden Girls back in the nineties were in their early fifties, right?
• 6:48
  [Tami] It's nuts. And we thought they were elderly. Yeah. Right.
• 6:52
  [Dr. Mina] So now look at you know, fifties now I think a lot of people would say, Gosh, like I mean, I'm I'm doing all these things. I'm not living in a i you know, fifty five plus community, right? So I think our concept of aging has changed. But what I what I feel people and I'm gonna say women mostly, is that we're afraid of becoming invisible. I feel like that's sort of the fear we have, that we hit middle age Our we used to maybe be known we used to be maybe have our looks to get by on or whatever and and then all of a sudden that's gone. And or I
• 7:28
  [Tami] Certain amount of social capital.
• 7:30
  [Dr. Mina] Right. And and so y I think a f a big fear is I'm gonna become invisible. I'm gonna become kind of irrelevant in my work, in my family, right? Like maybe your kids are going off to school and maybe you're a stay at home parent. And and now you feel like, well, now I don't even have that. Like who am I? So I think it's this sense of not just with our looks, but kind of with everything, of of becoming invisible, that society's gonna think we're no longer reproductive, you know, we're just gonna be like put out to pasture, we're no no longer valuable. but I I get this sense of like I don't wanna be invisible. And I feel it too, like I wanna be invisible. Like I feel like I'm just getting started, right?
• 8:14
  [Tami] You are, by the way, I can tell you from here.
• 8:19
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, so I I think that's a big fear. And so then we start doing all these, especially a lot of times external things. I think because of how we look is so visible and we feel like that's that's easier to change than feeling invisible because your kids left school or left for for school and you're home alone, right? Like so we sort of focus on these things we think we can fix, maybe materialistically or we can do procedure or whatever. And and really the root of it, you know, I've I've seen so many people and they're ob object Objectively, not subjectively, objectively gorgeous and they don't see it, right? Because yes, there's stuff we can do on the outside and and yes, I love to make people feel good so that they look in the mirror and they love what they see. But so much of it comes internally first, right? And it's not something you can just buy.
• 9:10
  [Tami] No, no. And and you know, in the South we say, do you see how she's behaving? That doesn't look pretty, does it? That's ugly. Don't act ugly. And and but it's a reference to, you know, that that beauty is only skin deep. And, you know, you can you could make someone look probably super amazing, but if they act horridly, it would what's the real net effect there? Probably not so much. But that said One of the things that's, you know, sort of nice about this part of modernity is that we do have options on things that can slow down or reverse or you know, mitigate, soften some of the effects of of what it looks like to age. And I I do get some women who are opposed to anything anything at all. they they might use face creams or whatever, but beyond that they they believe you need to be au natural. And I think that's great if that's the right thing for you. But probably the rest of us fall between what could I do to tweak or to improve, enhance, and the full Monty, you know, whole deal. Yeah.
• 10:31
  [Dr. Mina] Right. Yeah. Hey, you're you're absolutely right. Like my my mom, I give this example, you know, I I would I would do any procedure for her, give her anything she wanted. Yeah. Not interested. Not interested. She's in her seventies. Of course. And she's like I she she wears uses moisturizer and she uses sunscreen. And she's gorgeous and she has beautiful skin. And so she wants she and it it's not like she's like morally against it, it's just like that's just not her jam.
• 11:01
  [Tami] Not her thing, yeah.
• 11:02
  [Dr. Mina] Not not her thing. versus, you know, other people are like, I I I literally want everything out there. But I think most people fall in that gray area in between, right? And I also tell people like, you're allowed to change your mind. You're allowed to say at 30, I'm never gonna do this or that, or and that's your prerogative. And yeah, don't beat yourself up if you turn forty or fifty and you're like, you know what, I'm I may want to do d you know, some
• 11:09
  [Tami] Chris Jenner.
• 11:29
  [Tami] Something, yeah.
• 11:30
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, I had a a a lady who was really bothered by her under eye bags. And she really is naturel in so many ways. That's really the only thing that bothered her. And I remember talking to her like, you know, sh she almost felt like she was cheating or, you know, she's caving, if she did this procedure because it's a cosmetic aesthet aesthetic procedure, but trying to talk to her like, you know, this is gonna This is beyond that, right? Like it's giving you back your confidence. so I think sometimes we have this we have shame about too like
• 12:06
  [Tami] Yes.
• 12:09
  [Dr. Mina] you know, w what what's okay to do, what's not okay to do. And it it's such a personal thing and a lot of times people say, Well well, what do I need to do? What do I need to do? I say, Well really, you need to think about what your skin needs are. So what are your needs? Is your skin dry? Are you struggling with acne, rosacea? you know, are are you going through menopause and you're having collagen loss? Like what are your skin needs? And then what are your goals? And that's how you form your habits. And your goals are gonna be different from my goals. And my goals at forty five are gonna be different from my goals at fifty five, most likely, right? Yeah. And so that's how you pair it together. And and you have to make it align with what you want. I think a lot of times we just kind of do stuff 'cause our friends are doing it or celebrities are doing it and you don't really know why you're doing it. and so that's sort of the first step is figuring out, well What does my skin need? 'Cause you know, I have oily skin. so my skin's different from someone who's very sensitive. And then what are your what are your goals?
• 13:10
  [Tami] I love that and I love and I really wanna encourage anybody listening to this, we are all about and I know Dr. Mina is in alignment with this, we are all about in removing shame about how you wanna age or what you wanna look like. I have had Botox for I don't know, over a decade and for me that's been the right thing. I hated those elevens, they bother me to no end. Too bad if you don't like it. It's my face. In the end, your body is the one thing that you should have total autonomy over. Whether, you know, I'm a death duelist, so I'm always saying you get to say what happens with your body all the way until, you know, until you give it back. So for me, that same principle is at play here when I think about, you know, how you want to do your skin or how you wanna look or whatever, I would just hope. that people wouldn't get caught in this you know, at this point we're old enough to think about it and know beyond. You can't gear how you judge the external by what everybody else thinks, or you're on a really slippery slope. To know what's right for you, to know your your correct skincare and what and also, you know, what you're comfortable with or what end you want that's power. I mean, that's what I hear you saying is you're looking to give women back their power at this point, you know.
• 14:45
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, and however that looks for them, right? So I I have sort of like a I call it my real skin framework and and one of the, you know, A is for alignment and making sure it aligns with you, right? And not someone else or not society. Because again, like I can do a lot of procedures and treatments on you, right? And there's a lot of you you can have all the facelifts in the world and all that. You're never gonna get the results if it's really not in alignment with what you want. And I also love the idea, I I think for a while, the last like ten years, everyone Everyone started to look the same. It it was almost like this very generic, kind of ageless, but I wouldn't say timeless. Yes. very tight Yeah, and it was it was very bizarre. Very bizarre. And I I'm hopeful and I feel like the pendulum is swinging back to like
• 15:26
  [Tami] Wouldn't say timeless.
• 15:37
  [Dr. Mina] People looking more authentic, like themselves, right? But again, yeah wanting to be the best version of yourself, right? And however that looks for you. Like you said, you hated those those lines, the elevens, right? And and I get that because I actually see so many women come in later in life for Botox for that because they're tired of people saying, Why are you
• 16:02
  [Tami] Are you mad? Yeah.
• 16:04
  [Dr. Mina] Yes, they're tired of people thinking they're angry and mad, when they're happy, when they feel good. And that's really disheartening, right? To think people think you're you're angry and mean when you know. So so I do see that a lot. And I think until you've you've kind of gotten older too and you started seeing those lines come in, maybe you have a different feeling, but
• 16:25
  [Tami] You may have a different
• 16:27
  [Dr. Mina] Right. I I can see why someone would be like, Yeah, I don't or sometimes people ask me, Well, where should I get Botox? And I usually say, Well, you know, it's common in between the eyebrows 'cause those are kind of an angry expression. But the lines around your eyes, those are those are smile lines, those are happy lines, right? So a lot of times people want to keep those because again, those those are a that that happens when you're smiling and you're happy. so again, I think seeing someone too who actually understands skin health, who's you know, I know there are lots of injectors out there and and people who are will who did a weekend course and they're like how hard can it be to actually inject and all that and and yes it's true like maybe actually doing the Pushing the syringe in needle into your your skin is not hard. But again, I think you'll get better results if you have someone who's kind of looking at it in a more holistic way and and not just, you know, paint by numbers, inject here, here, here, you know, for a very generic look. And and that's kind of the woman I'm really trying to serve as someone who's looking for more, not just cookie cutter, not just generic, wants their inner beauty to come through. And that doesn't Stamping out every sign that you're getting older, right? And a lot of times I have to tell my patients, like, you know, our goal isn't to remove every line on your face because that would look weird. That would look so bizarre. And yet
• 17:54
  [Tami] Does look weird. like that's that is something that I think we're slowly getting to. And I I do worry that some of the super expensive facelifts right now that are in the media are leading women to think, if I could just get there, then my whole life would be great. Because that's not what makes a great life is the number of lines on your face and not that you're implying otherwise. But I I do worry a little bit that th some of the the splashiness of social media is encouraging that and I like far better what you are saying, which is let's figure out this is what I hear you saying. Let's figure out the best version of you that lines up with who you are, with your lifestyle, and is realistic. Right. With like you mentioned skincare. What For those of us who are like, okay, I'm well actually I will tell you, I'm sixty one. I have to think about it now. I'm sixty one and you know, I'm always trying to find the right skincare direction and stuff. So I know I would be interested, so I feel like there are a lot of ladies on this call that would love to hear what a dermatologist would say is a good basic skincare regime.
• 19:21
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, so it it's actually really simple and people don't believe me and they're like, You have to be doing more. I'm like, I I'm not. But again, everyone's needs are different, but I would say the three like main things, you know, a gentle cleanser and I use Dove Beauty Bar. I mean, people don't believe it. I've I've tried a lot of different ones, but I just keep going back to it because it's simple, it's easy, it's it's gentle on the skin. You please don't spend a lot of money on your cleanser, basically. So gentle cleanser, we are not You know, this is not the eighties and nineties when we're trying to strip our oil and and and all that like with you know I I don't love toners because a lot of times they're very harsh and and the cleansers nowadays are much more balanced for our skin. So gentle cleanser in the morning I don't even wash my face I just splash water on it. If you have very sensitive skin or winter time that's totally fine too. and then really a moisturizer especially for kind of middle age up and then sunscreen. I mean those are like your three basics. and for a lot of people especially if you don't have very dry skin, your sunscreen can be like your moisturizer. so that's for like a truly basic, you know, that's my mom's regimen, right? Like super simple, no frills. And if you just did that for your whole life, you know, plus take care of your body, exercise, not smoke.
• 20:43
  [Tami] Try to eat right. Yeah.
• 20:45
  [Dr. Mina] Y you you're already ahead of the game, right? So I'm a little extra. So I use a retinol or retinoid at night. I use the prescription strength, but I know that as I've even noticed myself as I'm getting more middle age that my skin is more sensitive and can't handle using it every night, so I don't usually use it every night. But there are so many great over the counter retinols. They tend to be a little pricier, which is why I love the prescription one because I think it's a great Bang for your buck, but if you can't use it because it's irritating, then it's no good. And so then I would say look at getting a retinol that's over the counter, you know, from drugstore brands like rock, I think CeraVee, La Roche-Pose, they all make some. And then if you want something you know, maybe a little fancier, things like Hydrinity makes a great one. Martha Stewart's skincare line elm has a really nice retinol, and and they've even done side-to-side studies. I think it's about to come out where they show that it's It's actually as effective as using a low dose prescription. So I would do that at night if you know, and if you have sensitive skin, use more of the over the counter, don't use the prescription. and then I it's some sort of antioxidant. So p a lot of people have heard of vitamin C. That's antioxidant. but there are also some other kinds and a lot of times these
• 22:03
  [Tami] Yeah.
• 22:09
  [Dr. Mina] These vitamin C serums or antioxidant serums have other vitamins in it that can help. So using that in the morning is really helpful. I'm actually using one that that's from Exosomes. It's from Plated. I love this company. I'm I'm not sponsored by them, but I love the they actually have like real research behind it. So again, I think there's a lot of like noise around the exosome space. so you just have to be careful 'cause these are expensive. but some sort of antioxidant, some sort of cellular renewal, some serum I would say use in the morning would be helpful.
• 22:45
  [Tami] I was gonna say what exactly because I've used vitamin C serum on and off over time and t it leads me to two questions for you. One, what does vitamin C actually do or these antioxids, what are they actually doing for our skin? But two, in the vitamin C area, there is hot debate over what kind of vitamin C and what will actually soak into your skin. So I'll give you both questions, but that's any any information in that area would be
• 23:13
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah. So so vitamin C is L ascorbic acid in general. They also make some other forms that are a little bit milder because sometimes it can be a little sticky on the skin. And also vitamin C is really finicky. That is why you see skin suiticals, you know, s what is it, C E ferrulic, it's like two hundred plus dollars and they're in dark jars, right? But I mean I I love I think it's Vanna Cream makes a really gentle one, CeraVee makes some. So certainly don't need to spend. In fact, I Wouldn't recommend spending $200 on a vitamin C, but they're, you know, they they run the gamut, right? and vitamin C or and really these antioxidants, they do exactly what they do when we eat them, which with berries, which I also encourage, right? They they help it they pair really nicely with your sunscreen. They are gonna help bind up these free radicals that form in our skin from being exposed to UV radiation, being exposed to pollution, and things. In our environment. And so we build up these like toxic free radicals, and the antioxidants are going to bind them and neutralize them. So that is
• 24:21
  [Tami] Is that because it causes cancer?
• 24:24
  [Dr. Mina] they can. They can but
• 24:26
  [Tami] I was gonna say, what's the free radical gonna do?
• 24:29
  [Dr. Mina] they can do anything from like causing cancer and they can also just damage cells, break down collagen, break down elastin. So they just are d destructive, right? And so that's why we wanna we wanna bind them up so they can't can't do that. so I also like any you know, we're seeing and I think we'll see more in the future too, more sort of like cellular reversal and cellular renewal, like this whole field of regenerative medicine and that's where things like Exosomes can play a role. growth factors, I think there's still, you probably hear about those. I think there's still we need some more research to be done. NAD, like can using NAD in products actually help reverse cellular damage and help our cells be healthier? So I think there's definitely in the next couple of years we're gonna see a really big growth in this market of not just topicals that moisturize the skin, but actually penetrate. down into our cells and help reverse damage there. And so that's what I love about these exosomes, that they actually are doing that. They're actually getting rid of what they call these senescent or zombie cells that are just hanging around causing, you know, they're like the Debbie Downer of the party. They're making they're making the whole party a bust, right?
• 25:49
  [Tami] They're making bad cells and proliferating them.
• 25:52
  [Dr. Mina] That's right, you just gotta get get rid of So that's sort of like next level, but at a minimum, some sort of antioxidant serum. and again, do not feel like you have to spend hundreds of dollars on I truly actually find some of the drugstore over-the-counter ones really, really hydrating. but there is a there is a little bit of like trial and error, just like with sunscreen. You've got to like the the consistency on your skin and
• 26:20
  [Tami] Smelled it, yeah. And does it work with your other products? a lot of my girlfriends that we we pass whatever who tried the latest crit cream potion serum, we then we go, my god, must try. And then we all give each other, you know, you have tried this. Now what do you think of that? but one of the big beefs that I hear about is I don't like that. I thought that felt great.
• 26:21
  [Dr. Mina] Exactly, yeah, exactly.
• 26:49
  [Tami] But when I put my sunscreen on, it made it pill. So that can often be off putting and we've never we have hot debates on is that caused by the way that you're applying it or by the products themselves. We're not sure.
• 26:53
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah.
• 27:07
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, it and it it could be both, right? I find the more you layer so again, I I really don't think you should layer and I I think they've done some studies showing like after you've layered more than like three to four products, nothing else is getting in. So it doesn't matter the order. Go from thinnest to thickest. So in general, your serums, which for me tend to be my antioxidant serum or your vitamin C, put that on first, then do your moisturizer and then follow up with your with your sunscreen. but it does Know I I've certainly had that happen too. If my skin's real dry and then I'm I'm layering and then I needed more moisturizer, it can it can peel a little bit. so the wrong order, using too many products. and then sometimes, yeah, it's just like the consistency. If if one is too thick and then the other, yeah, you know, so there is a little bit of like playing around with it and and seeing what works best. and yeah, sometimes if my skin's real peely, if I've been going hard on my my retinal. My tretin, you know, and then I I just need like a little extra moisturizer too because my skin's just dry.
• 28:14
  [Tami] Just to get back. Actually that's a great that's a great thing. 'Cause a lot of women who who listen to podcast are right in the hot middle or postmenopausal and dry skin is a thing. I I had T zone when I was young and g I don't anymore.
• 28:36
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah. Yeah. yeah. I I again I used to be like I joke I was so excited glass skin became popular because I felt like I was an oil slick. So Greece
• 28:46
  [Tami] Live in the glass skin.
• 28:47
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, I was I was glass skinning before it was popular, but but now I do notice like I I actually will kinda reapply moisturizer throughout the day sometimes. So here's a a little hack. If you want your skin to look immediately better, put moisturizer on. I mean it it's it's phenom I mean you can do your own like little tests, like maybe at the end of the day if you've been, you know, Like kind of smile, take this air this skin gets real dry easily under your eyes. Snap a selfie of your skin under your eyes at the end of your day. And then put put a little moisturizer on it and then snap another picture. I mean immediately it's gonna look better. And that's how a lot of these companies unfortunately they show like improvement clinically. It's just moisturizer. So you know everyone's skin looks better moisturized. So you know throughout the day don't be afraid to you know I I keep like you know I've got some like moisturizer right here in my
• 29:42
  [Tami] Yeah, a little update.
• 29:44
  [Dr. Mina] Put a little put a little moisturizer on, especially areas that tend to get dry, makes a big difference. I do want to talk about s with with your audience, estrogen cream. So have you been hearing about
• 29:56
  [Tami] Please talk about that.
• 29:58
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, so I I'm a big fan. I just wanna tell women like how important it is so again, I'm not giving medical advice. Talk to your own doctor, but I think it's a crime that we haven't been taught this earlier, but the importance of using vaginal estrogen cream and how virtually every woman past probably my age should be on it. and you you can and should be on it, even if you're on systemic therapy, right? Because it works locally on the skin. And I I joke that the the vulvas is skin and and I feel like OBGYNs don't really want to talk about they they've got you know they've got enough to worry about with everything else. but dermatologists also don't really feel comfortable talking about the vulvas scan. And and I feel like we've got all these women in limbo, they've got symptoms. It's kind of embarrassing to bring up right and potentially. And yeah And people also think, well, if I'm not having sex, do I really need it? It's so important. It helps prevent UTIs, it helps with moisture, your any itching, dryness, irritation, all of that. So what I tell people, because I'm getting asked a lot, should I be putting estrogen cream on my face? And the first thing is we of course we don't have a lot of studies. We've neglected women, especially in midlife, for so many for centuries, right? So we we need more data. So that'll be my first caveat. Course, but I feel very confident that if we are using it safely with the mucosal skin of the vulva and the vagina, that absorbs way more easily. That we certainly can use it safely on the skin of our face and it can have estrogen receptors on our skin there. So what I'll tell people is if you're using it for vulgar skin, which you probably should be and talk to your your GYN if you're not, you can take a little bit of that estradiol. If you're using it twice a week there, use it twice a week on your face, maybe your neck, tops of your hands. And and that can be helpful. And if you don't really so I don't really mind how it feels. I put it on before I go to bed. and so to me it's like hydr to me it's like hydrating not a problem.
• 32:13
  [Tami] Super hydrating and yes, I have put it on my neck and then later thought, is this like a problem?
• 32:19
  [Dr. Mina] No, absolutely not. And they also do make estriol creams that are geared towards the face. They tend to be more expensive, but a little more elegant. And so if you prefer that, and those can be used almost like daily, but they're not as strong. So you can
• 32:35
  [Tami] I was gonna say it's a lot less.
• 32:37
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah. But if you're you know, really you sh what I tell my patients is you should be using it for the vulgar skin. Look, I'll write you a prescription and then just dab a little of the estradiol twice a week on your face. And again, of course, yes, we do need more studies. We do need more than just studies by these, you know, companies like Alloy and things like that. But I we know we have estrogen receptors in the skin and we know that when our estrogen levels are depleted, we know how important it is. and we know how important it is for the vulvar skin. And so to me it just makes sense that our facial skin, skin of our neck, chest, hands, could also use some love with estrogen as well.
• 33:16
  [Tami] That is fantastic. And I I'm I'm glad to hear somebody talking about that because I I'll back you up a hundred percent. The estradial is a game changer if you are not or have not been using it. And I have a number of friends who got caught in the rotating door of we shouldn't use it because it will cause, you know, all kinds of evils from that. early two thousand not experiment, but the the data that came out. Yeah. Yes, thank you. And so they got caught in, they they were told no, we don't want to up your breast cancer risk. However, now that we realize so many different things about that data, now they're saying, No, no, no, you should have it. And even then it can give tremendous relief to women who have not had it, even if you're Over fifty five. Over sixty.
• 34:16
  [Dr. Mina] Absolutely. I could give my a hundred and three year old grandma this and be very confident. In fact, sh I I I should call and make sure she's using it, right?
• 34:25
  [Tami] Yeah. Yeah, well especially w the the I I had a hysterectomy last year and one of the things that I I didn't have bladder related issues with that, but when I went in, some of the nurses and stuff that I was talking to, I was stunned at how important that estradiol is to help keep the region, not just your hoo who, you know, healthier with the with the estradiol cream and That's not unless you're right in there about that that issue, that's not getting said to women and we need to say that, you know.
• 35:05
  [Dr. Mina] I it really it's such a travesty that this isn't like shouted 'cause it's it's cheap, it's a f you know, it's affordable, it's easy to get, it's generic, and it's virtually safe, you know, f again, talk to your doctor.
• 35:19
  [Tami] Again, talk to your own doctor.
• 35:21
  [Dr. Mina] Right. For everyone to be on for every woman to be on this and yet why is it why is it a secret, right? It's we have so much to undo from that early 2000 study. but I am excited that this whole sort of like new wave of midlife women are like, wait a minute, we're not taking this sitting down. you know, we want we want help, we want we deserve quality of life. And I think people don't realize like you TIs are a huge cause of morbidity and mortality for men as they get older. But and if we have estradiol can truly prevent urinary tract infections and possibly getting septic and
• 36:05
  [Tami] And why wouldn't you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is so wonderful. Thank you. I like that is invaluable information. If you're listening to this, please talk to and you don't have any on board or know about it, talk to your doctor at least and get and get answers.
• 36:23
  [Dr. Mina] If you you know, if you're getting pushback or someone's telling you, that's not safe for you, this not get a second opinion. Because the a lot of doctors when I know for myself when I trained in the early two thousands, like this wasn't talked about. Like the only reason I know this is because I have sought out. I have paid money to go and learn about this on my own time and with my own money. because I'm I'm genuinely interested in midlife women's health. but just because someone if someone tells you no, they're just not up you know it's not their fault I suppose just they're just not up to date on the latest yeah yeah don't stop there seek seek another opinion
• 36:58
  [Tami] On what's the latest you know something?
• 37:05
  [Tami] Get get to real help. I mean the thing the thing that hits me is that we are a generation of women who started out analog and learned to be in the digital age. We can figure out you know the hormone cream situation and we deserve to have access to the information and to the kind of support that it it offers us. So if you're getting I like what she's saying, if you're getting pushback, keep asking because There are better options available here.
• 37:38
  [Dr. Mina] Find find someone who is up to date who, you know, ask your friends, ask around. But yeah, I mean even as a dermatologist, like I I'll prescribe it because vulva is skin and I know how important it is to women's health.
• 37:50
  [Tami] Yeah, I love that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that part. You said earlier to get off the hot girl hamster wheel. Help tell I love that so much. We need T shirts and bumper stickers. Tell me about that.
• 38:04
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, gosh. I I feel like another shirt I wanna make is like front will say like former hottie now what? Because I feel like that's where a lot of us are like, I mean, I I I used to feel good and think I look good, you know. but yeah, it it is hard. It is hard. you know, it's there's we're being bombarded all the time with so much noise and how the beauty industry is just like exploding. It's like
• 38:17
  [Tami] Sang on.
• 38:30
  [Dr. Mina] What recession, right? Like it is exploding. So it it is hard. You have to really be intentional. And it's kind of like I I think feel like decluttering your house. Like every and and I have to do this too myself. Like I'm not immune to it. I would say the first step is like an audit. And I know that doesn't sound fun and I am not a spreadsheet girl, but I mean you you need to just like you sit down with your finances, because really this is kind of about finances too, is like write out, you know, maybe go through a month or Or ideally you do like three months or six months, but like write out all you know, or even start with a week, right? Like write out all the beauty things you do or you know, I say quote unquote self-care, but you know, really it's like, you know, is it waxing, is it getting your Botox, is it getting your hair colored, is it getting a massage, is it getting a facial, is it getting your nails, right? You know, is that and write out what you're doing. And then write out how often, you know, what is the frequency? Is this a once a year thing or is this a I'm in there every two weeks, right? How much time does it take, right? Like is this a quick 10 minute kind of thing? Or, you know, is it your red light mass that you do every day but it takes 10 minutes and you do it while you're journaling and it's super therapeutic for you? and then write out the cost. Like this is gonna be really eye-opening for people, right? And then
• 39:50
  [Tami] Okay, and by cost are you talking cash or time or what's
• 39:54
  [Dr. Mina] So so you're already gonna you're already gonna write out how often you're doing it and then you're also gonna write out Yeah. So, you know, that Botox appointment maybe takes an hour, maybe your hair appointment all in takes three hours, right? And then you're gonna write out the cost financially, right? How much are you spending? And and then probably calculate what is that annually, right? And and actually Wow. Go and then I also say have a column for your enjoyment.
• 39:59
  [Tami] There's your time.
• 40:20
  [Dr. Mina] Okay, because life is about look, I I enjoy feeling good. I enjoy being pretty. I enjoy pretty things, right? but I'm not gonna do everything. So I'm gonna pick the things that matter to me. I love, love, love getting massages and I I really want one a month. One a month. I am not ready to to go gray and let you know, and so I color my hair. That's not something I'm gonna give up.
• 40:43
  [Tami] Just thinking that, yep.
• 40:47
  [Dr. Mina] But I've never had a a facial in my life. I'm never. And I don't get my nails done. And I used to get pedicures and now I'm like I don't even get those, right? So you've got you've gotta figure out like how much these things are really costing you time and energy wise and and how much you really enjoy it or not. And I think you'll Exactly. And so go through those things that you're like, I'm just doing it, but I actually hate it. Mm-hmm.
• 41:09
  [Tami] What's the ROI?
• 41:17
  [Dr. Mina] Cross those things off, right? Immediately. If it's a five, you know, I I go through one through five, five's your you love it. You know, if it's a five and you can afford the time and the investment, then do it, right? Mm-hmm. But I think you'll when you go through that, you'll be like, Okay, you know what? I don't really enjoy doing that gouacha for ten minutes, or I don't really enjoy doing whatever, but I love my my infrared sauna, whatever whatever it is, right? So pick the things you enjoy and you love and then Get rid of all that other stuff. And I I think you'll be shocked how much you're spending without realizing it because that little sixty dollar nails here and threading or waxing, you know, like all those little things you do. And if you're not loving it, why why are you doing it? so that's sort of my first
• 42:00
  [Tami] It adds up, yeah.
• 42:07
  [Tami] Good counsel. That is good counsel. So you mentioned the red light. Do you like the red light therapy? What do you think?
• 42:14
  [Dr. Mina] So I think Yeah, I I I do like it. we in dermatology we've been using light as therapy for, you know, decades. So we know the power of it. the thing is there's a lot of gimmicks, so you need to make sure you're getting the right wavelength. really it's blu I think a blue for like acne, it's great for acne, red is for anti aging and then infrared is more for like inflammation, things like that. So you you gotta again pick the one that you need. So my children don't need the anti-aging one, but sometimes if they're struggling with acne, I'll let them use the blue light. so you have to make sure it's it's powered well, it's an FDA clear device, that meaning they've actually done some studies with it, that it's the correct wavelength. And then you have to be consistent, right? And that is where people I I would say people say, what's the number one thing people get wrong? I would say they're not consistent, right?
• 42:51
  [Tami] Right.
• 43:13
  [Dr. Mina] So it's like working out, right? You don't go to the gym for two sessions and wonder why, you know, you don't have like
• 43:20
  [Tami] When Schwarzenegger aren't going head to head? Yeah.
• 43:22
  [Dr. Mina] Exactly, exactly. So you gotta be consistent. So I do not personally use one because I just am not consistent with it. My sister though, she's got a a flexible mask, she puts on and she is like multitasking, she's like cleaning, she's doing all so she and and it's three minutes, like so she can she is committed to that. So if you're gonna invest in these devices, then for the at home ones, like you you just have to be committed.
• 43:39
  [Tami] Hardcore.
• 43:51
  [Dr. Mina] but yeah, I love like especially in office after a treatment for acne for kind of helping with healing. it is real science. It's not bogus, but most of a lot of the devices out there, again, also don't waste your money on something that looks like a little pin. You know, again, you want it to like cover the surface area you're trying to treat and and you just have to be consistent.
• 44:15
  [Tami] That's actually a great tip. And I do, I was thinking back to what you were saying about you know, do an audit and look at all that you're investing in time, time, money, care, all of these things. And I I was just thinking that at sixty, you know, there are things that when I was in my forties and my fi early fifties, I thought, I will just do this forever. But I have to tell you, the the longer that you go along, the more you realize, you know what, this is a value, or I'm just I do not want to sit in that chair for three hours. I do, in full disclosure, I'm not. But I'm just saying people realize I have girlfriends who are thinking of transitioning to more gray because they're just tired of going the hair salon anymore. Those are great, you know, respectable reasons. to make changes and just because you decided it at forty-five does not mean that you need to be stuck with it at sixty. These are things what I like what you're saying is by conducting a review and having having the emphasis be on doing the, you know, the occasional reviews, you give yourself space, permission, and the gumption to know that not everything needs to be forever. There are periods and seasons and What works now may not work later.
• 45:45
  [Dr. Mina] Exactly. Yeah. And and doing this kind of periodically, it's like, wait, what what am I doing? And like it it's hard when you're a dermatologist, like people are always getting me try this, do this, you know. And then I'm like, should I be doing that? You know, like it's tricky and we're bombarded with stuff all the time, right? and so a a lot of it is just putting on blinders, you've got your routine down, you don't need to it doesn't matter what your neighbor, your best friend's doing, you know, and you just stick to your plan. Yeah, and and And I I also have to say I am loving the the the silver and the gray that I'm seeing women rocking too. So yeah, I mean I'm I'm like who what age am I gonna be brave enough to say yeah I'm gonna do that? So every
• 46:29
  [Tami] Well y I'm hoping by the time you get closer to where you would really think about it, that it will we can it we can reduce the brave thing because you know what? It's so beautiful. And I have I I have like hair if my natural hair color is about the color of a baby mouse, I always tell people. I'm a natural blonde but it looks, you know, that ashy terrible color no one wants. I have that with just a teeny bit of gray. So for me to try to go to gray, it would be non impactful. But I have girlfriends who have a lot of gray and they're just terrified that they'll be old. And I I hope we can Yes. And back to Invisible, you really hit a really important point on that, and I I I'm grateful that you that you phrased it that way. But the thing is though.
• 47:14
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah.
• 47:23
  [Tami] Th there's a there's a place in this where we take control of how we wanna look and and how we show up in the world and what we think about what. And I I think maybe there's something important about letting go of and girl, the closer you get to menopause, the easier this gets. Stopping caring what everybody else thought about. Well, freaking anything. You know, I think I think postmenopause i you don't not care at all, but it's getting easier to say, mm, but I think so and so and I'm I'm I'm comfortable with my choice here. Right? That I'm not gonna color my hair or, you know, do whatever I may have elected to do before. I'm wondering. I I have to ask this question because I had somebody say to me, just ask. the Botox lip situation. I'm gonna call it situation. Yeah. It appears to be getting better with time. Are we are we past the duck lip thing?
• 48:42
  [Dr. Mina] gosh. yes. Well I yeah I think the kids call it situation ship. But so actually you're you're kind of I think what you're you're you're you're talking about is the overfilled lips, right? Which is actually it's which is not from Botox. That is from filler hyaluronic acid yeah so hyaluronic acid filler
• 49:01
  [Tami] Villars. I said Botox. Yes, thank you.
• 49:07
  [Dr. Mina] I I still love And what I tell patients who get like I mean, you know, it's almost like a four letter word to to bring that up. If I if I suggest filler, they're like, No, don't don't say that. But I'm like, look, the reason you're scared of filler is because you've seen bad filler, but you don't notice good filler. Now I am not saying everyone needs filler, but there are certain areas where filler looks beautiful. And and it is well actually I don't even use it there. I love it in I do love it in lips. I do love it in lips. I My lips and I naturally do not have super full lips and so I would look very bizarre if I did a lot, but maybe once every couple of years I add a little bit just to help maintain the structure of my lip, which we know we lose as well as with collagen. so again, people you know, usually when I tell someone that they're you have lip filler. I wouldn't have thought that. I'm like, exactly, because it's about using
• 50:06
  [Tami] That's how it should be. Yeah.
• 50:08
  [Dr. Mina] Very naturally, yes. But yes, I still see the duck lips. It's still it's a look for some people and they want that. But I do feel like we're moving towards you know, and I a lot of celebrities are getting their filler dissolved, like there's been way too much overdone cheeks, you know, where the cheeks don't
• 50:26
  [Tami] The little chipmunk cheeks, yeah. No.
• 50:28
  [Dr. Mina] Exactly. But again, i it can be done it can be done well, but I'm I am preferring to do things like biostimulants, which build your own collagen. And I find by doing that on a semi regular basis it kind of helps keep your collagen and it does it in a very natural way where you don't it is an injection, yes. Uh-huh. so biostimulants are kind of I think we we had them back
• 50:50
  [Tami] Is that an injection?
• 50:58
  [Dr. Mina] decades ago and then they sort of fell out of favor when the restilin juvenerms were around. And then we've we've sort of overdone it with that. And so I'm now seeing a resurgence. And I think people also they like the idea of building it's it seems more holistic, right? You're using your body to build its own collagen versus putting in yes, hyaluronic acid is naturally in our skin, but it's more stiff. It's not quite as i it it it can be Overdone and look weird.
• 51:29
  [Tami] Mm-hmm. And nobody wants the
• 51:31
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, and it but if you are overfilled, you know, the nice thing about H A fillers is that it you can dissolve them so you don't have to stick
• 51:41
  [Tami] Wow. I that that that alone is interesting. So there's now options where you can inject the I don't know to call it what a bio Okay. That would help that will help your body produce more collagen. Is that what we're doing?
• 51:53
  [Dr. Mina] It by a stimulant. Yep, exactly.
• 52:01
  [Dr. Mina] Exactly. Yeah. So it's actually these little particles called P L L A and I mix it with water and then I inject it into the skin. And so immediately you're a little bit swollen from the water, but that goes down. And then I tell people, You're gonna you know, in in a week you're gonna look the exact same, but over time, over about three months, you start to build your own collagen. So I I banking. So And and you know, people say, do you do you recommend collagen in your coffee and things like that? You know, it's like Yeah, maybe, maybe it works. It's definitely not gonna hurt you, but I prefer doing things like the biostimulants where I know I'm gonna get collagen area because of where I put it. Yeah.
• 52:47
  [Tami] And you know where you put it. That's that's excellent. And that was actually something I was gonna ask you is how do feel about well two things. One is supplements of various stripes, and or healthy diet. How does that impact skin?
• 53:06
  [Dr. Mina] my gosh, well let's start with healthy diet because that is so important. yeah, I think people think of our skin as just being our face, but really you should think of your skin, you know, everyone wants data now and want to continuously monitor stuff, but like our skin is is like a vital sign. Our skin reflects our inner health. So and I don't, you know, think about a night you you partied too late or you had an all nighter or you were up all night with a newborn or a working on a work project, right? Like you were sleep deprived. the next day you you woke up, you probably didn't look good. Like even if you put your makeup on and all that, you didn't look good, right? Hydrated. It yeah, it didn't look good. and then probably you didn't feel good. And then you're gonna be kinda crappy that day. And then you're not gonna exercise, right? So all of these things matter. So I would say a couple of things is like sleep is so critical.
• 53:45
  [Tami] Wasn't good.
• 54:02
  [Dr. Mina] And I think we we're in in this society it's like go, go, go. Like I I have the a problem too. If I'm just sitting, I feel like I'm being unproductive, right? Like it's always go and I used to think, sleep, that's like a sign of weakness. If you have to sleep for eight hours, what a waste of time. It's so not true. So getting, you know, I I don't I feel like I'm okay with seven hours. but a sleep actor might tell me I'm wrong, but you know Aiming for, you know, seven to nine hours a night and just being consistent is so key. And then when you sleep well, you're gonna eat better. And so diet is key. And I noticed I had been a pescatarian for about twenty eight years and I never craved chicken. And all of a sudden I'm like, I want a chicken sandwich, I want a turkey sandwich, you know, so I had to s I could tell my body needed more protein. And so that's something in midlife to focus on is getting more protein, right? I think a lot of us grew I remember my mom, it was like the whole fat-free craze of the what eighties and nineties and no sugar, but then it was like fake sugar. You know, so all these like diets and fads and all that, but really you know, don't w we we can't starve ourselves, right? Like focusing on calorie cutting and restrictions and all that. Your hair's gonna fall out, your skin is not gonna glow. So you know, eating eating an appropriate amount of calories and making sure it's packed with protein, fruits and veggies, especially berries for their antioxidants, fiber. This is so important as we get right, and not being afraid of fat. My goodness, like, you know, it actually healthy fats help satiate you and you your body needs that. So
• 55:40
  [Tami] Good nuts.
• 55:52
  [Dr. Mina] think of your skin as like a vital sign and and really focus on nourishing it, eating well. And and this doesn't mean everything has to be organic and you have to pay an arm and a leg for everything, right? But trying to eat food, like your plate should look like real food. It shouldn't al shouldn't always come out of a a pack a plastic bag, right? Like that's sort of a test. Like if everything I'm eating comes out of a plastic bag, you know, And again, I am not a dietitian or anything like that, but in general it's thought that kind of focusing more on like a Mediterranean diet can be really good for your skin. and I I think, yeah, not. you know, I think as women too, we just went I mean, I know I went through phases too of like focusing on the calories that I ate and how that is just like not what we need to be doing at this phase.
• 56:44
  [Tami] Yeah, we need to be healthy. Yeah. If you're healthy first, the rest of it's gonna follow. No, and and I you know, as I'm listening to you, I'm I'm just really remembering again that skin is built by you're fueling it by what you eat. You know, and that's why it's an external reflection that your largest organ in of the body, right? Right is gonna be reflective of how healthy what you're feeding it is.
• 57:13
  [Dr. Mina] Right. Right.
• 57:14
  [Tami] So and I would assume I would assume to make sure that you're drinking water appropriately.
• 57:19
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, absolutely. Water and and a lot of studies are showing like really you know, I I enjoy a glass of wine. I enjoy socially drinking, but I am more cognizant now that I'm and and also I don't really crave it like I used to, I feel like but but that you know the amount of alcohol we drink, we I think people used to think, one one glass for a woman, two for a man a a day is probably fine, but now we're realizing like actu it it may it's probably not as healthy as we we thought or wanted it to be but again I'm all about like enjoying life and so for me I love having a glass of wine when I'm out to dinner with friends or my husband and and I want you know to me I enjoy that so that that's an enjoyment that I you know I but I just think about it more and I I try to see things more in moderation. So yeah like focusing on also I just gosh in my house It's like water or nothing because so much of these like even you think they're healthy drinks are just loaded with sugar. And actually that's one point I wanna make for skin health in particular,
• 58:30
  [Tami] Weird chemicals.
• 58:34
  [Dr. Mina] Eating a lot of processed sugar is really detrimental to our collagen. I I th I used to think, well I'm not eating a lot of like junk food and all that. I should be good, but actually start like it's really interesting. If you just spend a day or two writing down how much sugar you're eating, I think you really should have between like twenty five grams a day. And some of these like Starbuck drinks are like a hundred. It's it's insane. It's insane. But actually That sugar, eating a lot of that refined sugar, will bind to your collagen and it forms these things called advanced glycation end products or AGEs. It's gonna bind to your collagen, it's gonna make it stiff and brittle and break apart. So it's gonna accelerate aging. And so yet another, yeah, so yet another reason to monitor how much sugar, how much you know, and I'm not talking sugar and fruit, okay? I'm talking like candy bars.
• 59:20
  [Tami] Reason to
• 59:30
  [Tami] Right and and complex sugar.
• 59:33
  [Dr. Mina] add it into diet things or whatever, low fat things to make it taste better, right? All that added sugar can be really detrimental. So if if really you do nothing else for your diet, just c maybe track your sugar and and be aware of that.
• 59:50
  [Tami] Yeah, no, that's fantastic. I love this and I love what a balanced way that you have encouraged us to think about skin and about, you know, what do you want to do with your skin at this age and how do you wanna look and don't get caught up in, you know, the old school perceptions. We live in an era now where you you have a more autonomy than you ever have before as a woman to be able to rewrite the script. for what healthy and beautiful mean today, right? And f in a mid in mid a middle age in the mid age. I I think that's fantastic. Is there anything else that you want us to know before we
• 1:00:37
  [Dr. Mina] I would say you know, I I talk a lot about my real skin framework on my podcast and and things like that. I have an app that you can download called the Skin Real and I have to spell real, maybe not for your audience, but for for you know the Gin Alphas and Gin Z. It's R E A L like Real Skin. But I cre
• 1:00:56
  [Tami] Okay. Yeah.
• 1:00:59
  [Dr. Mina] quiz and it's by no means meant meant to make you feel bad. It's not going to give you an age of your skin. But I find again we like dado and and so you can you can go real skin dot lovable dot app APP and you can do this quick little scan with your with your phone and then it's going to break down using my real skin framework things you should be focusing on based on your images using that
• 1:01:09
  [Tami] Yeah.
• 1:01:27
  [Dr. Mina] Yeah, so it's not meant to make you feel bad about yourself by any means. do it in good lighting, that's my tip. You know, don't do it in the dark. and just a a fun way to get you know, a assessment of your skin based on kind of my framework that I use when I'm seeing my patients.
• 1:01:45
  [Tami] Yeah. Yeah. And tell me your website or how we can contact you if we have interest and we want to learn more.
• 1:01:52
  [Dr. Mina] It's the skinreel dot com or the app and you can get all you can listen to my podcasts, you can s read blogs, all that, contact information's all there as well as some you know, little like freebies, PDFs, things like that.
• 1:02:07
  [Tami] Perfect. And you're on Instagram as well.
• 1:02:09
  [Dr. Mina] I'm on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all of it, at Doctor Mina Skin.
• 1:02:14
  [Tami] Lovely. This is really fun. I know that a a lot of the women on the podcast, that's what they like to do is find somebody, follow them and then, you know, be able to
• 1:02:24
  [Dr. Mina] You know, nowadays thankfully there there are people yeah, you don't have to be in Atlanta, right? You can still get good information.
• 1:02:31
  [Tami] Remote Yeah, yeah, and you can learn about it. I love that. I find myself so glad that you are out supporting real women looking healthy and gorgeous and right where they need to look for how they wanna be right now. I just like I'm rooting for you, Doctor Mina. Keep doing it.
• 1:02:54
  [Dr. Mina] Tammy, you're you're like a trailblazer, yeah. Just redefining what midlife means as a woman.
• 1:03:01
  [Tami] Yeah, because we need it. We need new maps. The the ones that we were handed they they suck. They don't to use technical language they stink. So yeah, let's be honest. So let's ditch that. Well, thank you so much today for joining us and for helping all of us think more about our skin. I mean, it's it's a big deal. It's all over you and It's good to think about it and be mindful, whatever your choices are.