Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #267: The MAHA Mutiny: Inside the Movement's Most Controversial Summit (Part One)

Transcript

Episode #267: The MAHA Mutiny: Inside the Movement's Most Controversial Summit (Part One) · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: People were dubbing this a Maha mutiny.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: My new thing is on AI.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think AI is gonna create more jobs than you can ever imagine.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everything AI messes up.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna need humans to fix all the stuff that AI messes up.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: He pulled uh one of the podcasts that we did about our speculation into what's happening behind the scenes in Maha.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, line by line, what you speculated here is exactly what we just talked about in a closed door meeting.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody, to another Beyond Labels podcast with your hosts, Joel Salatin, the farmer.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: That would be me and our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Recently, at the end of September, Cena attended.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we both got invited, but she went and I didn't.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I stayed home and ran the chainsaw.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but she attended the second annual Maha Summit on September 29 in Washington, D.C., and has a lot of uh good information from inside Maha to report.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this is going to be very much an on-the-scene look and assessment of what's going on uh in the bowels of the um of the Maha movement.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Cena, what's your report?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thanks, Joel.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this was this was really exciting for me to get to go.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this was invitation only, and there was a reception the night before.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, Joel, this summit has sparked a lot of controversy, particularly among what I would call like the Maha base, you know, its core base.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: We previously talked on this podcast about how Maha had already started fracturing when the glyphosate executive order was signed by Trump.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and approved by uh Bobby Kennedy.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was it look, it I'm I I know you're just getting started here, Cena, but but look, you know, it would have been it would have been a totally different story if Trump had signed that and Bobby Kennedy had said, I'm not endorsing it, I'm not opposing it, I'm not endorsing it, I'm staying, I'm staying out of that.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but he didn't.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And therein lies a lot of a lot of sense of betrayal, I think.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, go ahead.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, the glyphosate executive order was was big.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was big.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so what happened was that it started fracturing Maha, and now people are dubbing this, this outcome of this summit, a Maha mutiny.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's further fractioning, fractioning the movement um in some people's perspective.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to set the groundwork that it was it was a very controversial summit.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I want to tell you what the who the speakers were, what they talked about, so you know the direction that Kennedy and Trump are going.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I'm gonna talk about what I saw boots on the ground.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So first off, uh a lot of the controversy, controversy started because of the sponsor list of this Maha summit.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, uh Maha was largely formed to fight the corruption, you know, the the being in bed of core of industry with government, you know, and uh, you know, on and on.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a I mean a ag agency capture.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: That was the term agency capture.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we've we've known about the the revolving door.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of phrases for this, uh, but but yeah, it's it's it's uh it's where it's where the big corporations uh infiltrate and essentially own the um the federal agencies, whether they're regulatory, um grant-oriented, uh whatever.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and we wanted transparency, right?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Maha movement was was for medical freeman, free freedom.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was about bringing transparency to these agencies, fleshing out that corruption.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there was a large um vaccine safety support supporters, like moms who had seen their children develop autism from vaccines, right?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And people against mRNA vaccines.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you look at the list of sponsors for this summit, it reads like an industry conference.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we had um anthropic, open AI, so there's a lot of talk about AI, Grail, which is like an AI health system, um, Compass, we had Sutter Health, they were talking about affordability of healthcare, kind of an oxymoron there.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: We had a pharma network, we had Walmart, uh, a peptide company.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and and the list goes on, but it's people are saying this is not a list of sponsors that they would have expected, right, for a Maha type event.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, when you look at the agenda, what was interesting is they had um there's one stage, so you know you didn't get to choose who you want to listen to.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's one stage, and it was a panel.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they would typically have like three people up there, and then somebody interviewing or moderating the panel.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And when you look at the um agenda, the panel is largely filled with people in industry.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you have like the CEO of Definium Therapeutics, the CEO of um Healess Pharma, the CEO of Compass Pathway, um, you know, the chief medical officer of Him's and Hers, the co-founder of Noho Labs, the CEO of Grail.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: There, and the list goes on and on.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: There were very few people who I recognized up on the stage.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of them was Dr.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Berg, and he did talk about, you know, natural health solutions.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't see any like what you would think of as a maha mom.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was no Zen Honeycutt up there, or you know, the food babe.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or so you didn't see that represented.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I also didn't see independent scientists, you know, whistleblowers of people who came out saying Robert Malone.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't Robert Malone was not asked to speak.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I I according to him, he was invited to the summit.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: He did not attend, but um, but I don't think he was asked to speak.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't see like me, like me.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I was invited, but I wasn't.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Were you asked to speak?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, which which is why I didn't go.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, not that I'm a crude, but just I got I got too I got too many speaking engagements.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I don't I don't need to I don't need to just uh go to go.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure glad you did.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we're getting the inside scoop.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So so this is yeah, I mean, Zen Honeycutt, the food babe, Robert Malone.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these are these are the these are associated with the Maha movement.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: The people that you're describing, these CEOs of these big companies, nobody thinks about them when they think Maha.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just the those of us who are who are peasants out here in the grassroots, uh, we don't think of those kinds of people when we think Maha.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Del Bigtree was also at attendance.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as far as I'm aware, he was not asked to speak.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: He certainly was not one of the speakers.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: We yeah, he wasn't on there either.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm saying.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: You read down the list, it's you know, it's these CEOs, it's these industry people from the AI space, um drug space, and you know, the health industry space.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um they shared stages sometimes with uh like Brooke Rollins.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So she was there, Dr.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Emmett Oz was there, obviously Kennedy.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um there are you know some other high high people who are high up, like Callie Means was there, uh Lee Zeldon, the administrator of the U.S.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Environmental Protection Agency, was there.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you so you get the picture, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is the this is what we listened to for for this day.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um the day concluded with doc with Robert Kennedy Jr.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: sharing the stage with Vice President J.D.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Vance.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk about that in a moment, too.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the culmination of it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um Cheryl Hines, Kennedy's wife, was there as well.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and she gave some updates of what's coming ahead for for Maha.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's the that's setting the stage.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, oh oh, in the opening remarks, one was given by the by the CEO of Maha Holdings.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's my understanding that Maha Holdings are the funders of Maha.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was told that they are the ones that selected the agenda.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm not even sure how much influence like Tony Lyons or Kennedy has on the on this agenda.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, so that that set the stage.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, now there was a lot uh before the event even started.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: There was kind of this like firestorm on social media about people upset about who was chosen, people upset about who was not chosen.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Some people who thought they should have got invited did not get invited.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: A New York Times reporter who her beat is the health beat with RFK and Trump, she got turned away at the door.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Although, you know, there's a lot of nuances here.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, I would not show up to an event, even as media, and expect that I'm going to get in to this event that's invitation only.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would ask.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's um, that's just uh uh what should we say?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um socially, it's just it's just crude.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like crashing a wedding, you know, like right, right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean you you you can be frustrated at not being invited, but you don't you don't go to the door to make a scene.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: All the exactly making making as our as our culture turns more and more barbaric, uh making a scene seems to be the uh the the uh answer to everything.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it also gets you more likes, right?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and views.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's right.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh huh.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh sensationalism.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh, so I I don't really give much stock to that.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there is limited seating.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, let me let me tell you some of the things that they talked about, and then I'm gonna we're gonna go into some of more of like I want to hear your opinion on this, and I'm gonna give you my opinion um about this whole entire thing.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do want to start off by saying, Joel, I realized at the reception, the night before the summit, there was a Maha reception, again, invitation only, and I was very excited because I realized that you and I are doing something right.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the first people who came up to me at that reception seemed, and I'm not gonna, you know, share names or anything because I don't want to get people in trouble.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: This person seemed pretty frantic, and they came up to me and they said, Who is it that you've been talking to?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who is it that you know?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who have you been talking to on the inside?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I homeschool my kids and sit behind my computer, like I didn't even have a dress to wear tonight, like you know, and he pulled up a one of the podcasts that we did, you know, several weeks ago about um, you know, our our speculation into what's happening behind the scenes in Maha.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, line by line, what you speculated here is exactly what we just talked about in a closed door meeting.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's like, who basically who's the leak?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Who leaked this to you?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm telling you, I know nobody.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like so we're doing something right, Joel.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, we got we had our we have our finger on the pulse here.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I wonder if it was about the about the um you know, the executive order uh where we talked about the executive order with Brooke Rollins regarding um It was it was after it was after the um the 300 million um three hundred thousand pound uh tons of beef import, and then he came with this five-page or I'm sorry, three-page executive order uh regarding um you know easing regulations and helping ranchers do this, that, that, and that and and and and and we pointed out that every single one of those bullet points ended with the phrase um subject to applicable federal law.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it wasn't that one, although that is a good one, and they probably you know also have flagged that one.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: This one was when I was um theorizing about why they've stopped talking about and pursuing the vaccine agenda, um, and uh how it's not a midterm winning um topic, you know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we see that again.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: We we saw that again in this summit.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um let me start since you brought up the Brooke Rollins thing, let me start there.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Brooke Rollins was there and she made an announcement from the stage that uh piggybacking on that$700 million fund investment into regenerative agriculture, she said that the Trump Trump that Trump has uh now upped the investment to a billion dollars.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: A billion dollars, Joel.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And she praised technology and said, quote, this is how we save our country.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So praising technology, she shared the stage um with a gentleman who she said is one of the greatest minds in our country.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he promoted uh so this was this was crazy.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: This was to me that this was the craziest part.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: He went on the stage and he started promoting new breeding techniques that he said are equivalent to nature.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he was very careful not to use the word genetically modified, genetically engineered, or any of those terms.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: What he talked about was how they can take a use a protein to turn off a gene or to change it into another version so that they can create self-fertilizing almond trees.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Does this not say genetic modification to you?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked, but here's the problem.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: See, and this is why it was it.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's I'm gonna share so many moments that happened during this this conference, this summit, that is why it was so important to be there in person.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to tap in so much more than ver versus seeing it online or reading reports.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you are.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: He starts describing, oh yeah, we take this protein, and he's saying there's no foreign DNA being used and it's non-GMO.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I start looking around and I'm whispering to people around me, this sounds like CRISPR.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, What?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like one person after the next.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not I don't know if they don't know about CRISPR or what what not, but it was very alarming to me that as he's saying that, there were a lot of just blank stares.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like people knew they didn't like it, but they weren't quite sure what it is.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: At least, you know, the people who I saw.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I'm I'm saying this has to be CRISPR, it has to be CRISPR, and nobody, you know, could nobody had the answer, and they kind of looked at me almost like, what are you talking about?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I looked it up later, and they are using CRISPR to create these self-fertilizing almond trees.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now the marketing was very spectacular.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: He said it's no foreign DNA, it's non-GMO.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can use 50% less water.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: You can use, get this, Joel, 50 to 100% less bees.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: 100% less bees.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, we have this.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I took that as oh, we have a problem with bee colonies collapsing.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, a shortage of bees.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we can now use technology to circumvent the need for bees.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's concerning to me.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they and they're claiming a 30% increase in profit.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he also touted a fungal resistant strawberry.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you could decrease the amount of fungicides used, and then a true potato seed, so you could plant the seeds instead of put planting potato pieces.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So so these are the some of the things they're working on.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they talked about CN spray where there's cameras that can be used um, you know, to identify the weeds and then spray it.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Laser weeding, of course, which we've talked about on this program before.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, obviously there is a benefit of not using herbicides to that, but again, it's it's lasers, it's using AI and um and they talked about soil data mapping.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So they're using all of this technology and um to try to get us to a healthier space.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: He actually said technology, not its absence, can align farmers, the planet, and health.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: So Brooke Rollins shared the stage with him, calling him one of the greatest minds in our country and saying this is how we save our country.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's when she announced that billion-dollar investment.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So people applauded.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, when that when that thing was announced, people thought, well, it was gonna go to uh rotational grazing, grass farming, compost, uh, you know, uh earthworm worm worm pea, foliar, bioferts, you know, which is kind of the cutting edge of of where I am in in the whole uh thing, you know, uh some of this um we we we we call it worm pea around here, but it's you know it's it's it's the it's the the the biological fertilizer, the um you know, extracts from from actual biology, you know, that that are used.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's what people thought all this was for.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it's gonna be for CRISPR, it's gonna be for um CN spray lasers, that billion dollars is gonna be completely um anti-nature tech oriented.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that was my concern.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So people were plotting that, and I thought I don't think people realize where that money actually goes.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she also had she brought some farmers with her and she had them stand up.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't recognize any of the farmers, I can't say for sure, but my feeling was that these are big ag farmers.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now I talked to a regenerative agricultural farmer, okay.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is what he told me.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: He said that this program, you know, this new now billion-dollar investment in regenerative ag, that it's going to result in incremental changes to industrial agriculture, and it's going to exclude people who want to pursue what we would call regenerative.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: He said he had hope, but this is not the program.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he, I asked for an example.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: He said that the USDA evaluates the farms for the NRCS program using CART, C A R T.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: He said you absolutely score higher on CART if you have confinement livestock with precision manure application.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: He says you can't get those points as a managed grazing operation without the confinement livestock.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, he's saying you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Can't get those ranking points if you are a regenerative operator, and that CART is set up to evaluate farms as if regenerative farming doesn't exist.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: He said he doesn't know if they're gonna fix it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: He said they're aware of the problem, but they're not talking about it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what does CART stand for?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, let me look.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, CART.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: It says USDA program managed by the Natural Resources Conservative Services.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: CART stands for the Conservation Assessment Ranking Tool.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: It evaluates existing land conditions and natural resource concerns.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: It uses geospatial data to analyze environmental risk and priorities, and it ranks producer applications for conservation funding pools.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so Cena, this ain't new.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: This ain't new.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go back 40 years, okay, like almost before you were born.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and um the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, which was a kind of one of our Virginia's leading environmental organizations, um, there was a huge amount of of um pollution going in the Chesapeake Bay.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they got the General Assembly to um allocate, I don't know how many millions it was, it was millions and millions of dollars, to transition farmers to um to stop what they call non-point source pollution into the Chesapeake Bay.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um so long story short, I had I kind of started up uh back then, it was snail mail.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I started a kind of a letter writing campaign and got enough uh traction that they sent up the guy that was administering the program.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now realize that we were composting what they were paying for were installation of liquid manure slurry systems.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the bottom line, I won't bore you, I'm I'm desperate to hear all the story that you want to say.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: The bottom line is they told me because we had already figured out how to not have pollution from our farm, we didn't qualify for any of the government assistance because we had already solved our problem.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: The only people who qualified for the government assistance were people who were polluting, who hadn't begun to solve the problem yet, to buy them machinery, equipment, and labor and things so they could so they could uh transition.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: But those of us who had already figured out how to stop it, we didn't get a dime.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So so this is nothing new, nothing new.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's the same old, same old.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's crazy.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So what does that teach you?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: That teaches you not to solve your own problems, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: All right, go on.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm loving this.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is great.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is like this is you're you're you're like you're like a mole on the inside.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have we have a mole.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and what I will tell you, okay, so I am sharing, I'm trying to be fair and balanced here.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sharing exactly what they said.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what research I did to dig into it further, and then I wanna I do, and I'm gonna balance this out because um I think what I said what I'm gonna say it might surprise you about you know where I stand on this.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so piggybacking on your how you you actually solved your own problem.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was um surprised, given the lineup, I was surprised to see Brian Johnson on this list.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: He made the list.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure uh if you're familiar with him.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, okay, so he is known as uh Brian Johnson is the face of the longevity movement.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: He he basically believed that he may not die.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like his goal was like to never die.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and he's done all this research.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he's like allegedly the most tested person alive.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he's trying to figure out how to increase the lifespan.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: He was actually just diagnosed with what he's calling an incurable autoimmune disease.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And get this, Joel.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I saw an interview with him where he was saying that his critics cheered that he was diagnosed with this incurable disease.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, I think people really want me to die.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, Now I get it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, it's ironic, I push a lot of buttons that people don't like, he said.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: But people actually cheered when he got this diagnosis.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just the state of our culture.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so to your point, this is he he he received probably one of the most um the highest level of organic applause, I will say.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because he basically said, We don't need government regulation, we can do this ourselves.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, empowerment to the people.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like all these other um speakers who were there, I want to say almost all all the other speakers were talking about, oh, we need government regulation to keep up with technology and you know, more regulation and whatnot.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he basically boldly said, we don't need that, we can be we can empower ourselves.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so he did talk about um the need for sleep, that sleep is the number one health protocol.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: He talked about, he gave five tips for helping you sleep better.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Four hours before bed, don't eat any food.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: One hour before bed, no screens.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Go to bed at the same time every night.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do not drink caffeine afternoon.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, those are the four main, so four main ones.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he he basically said that's the most important thing you can do is sleep.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Aside from him and uh Dr.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Berg, there weren't there wasn't a lot of like natural medicine at all being talked about.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will tell you, there was also no mention really of pesticides.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they're talking about how to live better, how to end chronic disease, um, how to live longer.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And from my recognition, my recollection, recollection, you know, it was a long day of listening to a lot of people.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Glyphosate was mentioned one time to say that it's being it's under review.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um atrazine was mentioned one time to say that it's under review.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: GMOs were mentioned that one time, like I said, um, although they were mentioned under the guise of it's not GMO, um, but they were promoting CRISPR technology, uh, which, you know, that's a definitional thing.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can the the government doesn't classify it as genetically modified, right?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: If it can occur naturally, but I'm saying it's a CRISPR technology where they are still making changes to the genome, okay?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not introducing a foreign DNA, but they're still making changes.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't any mention of Let me uh uh let me make sure I understand.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: When you say making changes, there there's a big difference between changes that could occur naturally and changes where human manipulation overrides overrides uh the nature's uh fences to keep that from happening.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know, when you in the one of my biggest problems with GMOs, you know, philosophically, uh, is that that you are you are combining um you are you are penetrating boundaries that that under natural systems could never happen.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're never gonna have you're never gonna have um uh a carrot becoming part strawberry in nature.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're completely separate um spe things, species.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're never gonna have a sheep taking on um tomato DNA.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in my book, folks This Ain't Normal, I say if you look out in your garden and you see you know a sheep getting it on with a tomato plant, you know, something's wrong there.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: If the sexual plumbing doesn't match up, there's something wrong.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Does does CRISPR does CRISPR do that?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or is CRISPR simply an acceleration of hybridization?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say in agriculture at this point, um uh so for for this for this specific example, it's accelerating.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's you could say for the self-fertilizing almond tree, they may have bypassed like 20 years of conventional crossbreeding.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: So they've switched off a gene.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you introduce like this CRISPR-Cas editing.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they're still editing a gene.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: They are inducing uh, my understanding is a they're inducing a precision loss of function mutation in the pistil and pollen associated self-incompatibility genes.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so so they're making it become compatible with itself to be able to fertilize itself.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they're still changing its genome.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're not introducing a foreign DNA, like, you know, carrot into it, but but you're still changing its its genome.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem is, or one of the problems is um, as I documented in my book, there's often unintended consequences, there's collateral damage that can happen.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so it it's they're saying it's precision, right?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: The word is not chosen by mistake, that it's precision.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is this more precise than the gene gun?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would say yes, but they also said that the gene gun technology, which was used in the original GMOs, was precise.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So was it precise then and now it's also more precise?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't, you know, so this is wordplay.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't buy that there's not some unintended consequences to changing their genes.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and philosophically, uh, and as a scientist, uh you could speak to this, but but it it it intuitively it seems to me like uh there is a there is a reason why adaptation comes slowly.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you speed up natural adaptation, because things do things do adapt.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean they they they they do adapt to to certain to you know climate and different things.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you speed that up, then you are eliminating your possibility of seeing the the um the unintended consequences of the adaptation.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yes.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I agree with you a hundred percent.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that once again, there is either an incompetence here or it's a deliberate circumvention of what the actual problem is, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's not enough bees, like they need these bees to pollinate these trees, right?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so instead of trying to address the root cause of what's causing the bees to collapse, and in part that's pesticides and herbicides, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of addressing that, it's oh, well, let's just use technology again to circumvent this problem.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we're kicking the can down the road, creating God only knows what other unintended consequences are happening.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, we're still losing the bees.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: But but like I said, it seemed like this is totally speculation on my part, is just sitting there as an observer, because I don't have a dog in the fight, you know, in in this Maha summit.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm listening to it and I'm thinking, well, wait a minute, the collapse of the bees is a problem, but nobody's talking about glyphosate or the herbicides or the pesticides.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: So why were they told not to talk about it?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, just like the speculation I had that we talked about several months ago, where I was like, I think Kennedy has probably been told vaccines are not a winning issue for the midterm.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Shift your language, talk about these other things, you know.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I've again, I don't know if that's the case, but it certainly sounded like there was a directive there.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Herbals were also not talked about.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: They did talk about psychedelics, which I'll get into in a minute, but I didn't hear a lot of people talk about herbals, with the exception of Dr.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Berg talked about for cancer treatment, you know, consuming things like wormwood and things like that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: So he did bring up some natural remedies, but by and far the solutions are technology.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't even got to the AR, the AI part yet.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't hear them talking about much about vaccines, except somebody's comment that now the um like Kennedy has changed, Kennedy has changed the um language, and I totally agree with this.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Tony Lyons said that that um the Maha movement and Kennedy have changed the perception of food, medicine, and farming.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: They've changed the language.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now you have people talking about seed oils versus tallow and synthetic food dyes, you know, versus natural alternatives and a grass awareness.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with all those things.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you and I are both champions of Kennedy in terms of the level of awareness that he has brought to the American culture.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I did hear them talk about is um lots of benefits of AI, lots of healthcare prevention and early detection using AI, lots of being able to change people's behavior using AI.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mentioned CRISPR, the lasers to kill the weeds, changes in the in food dyes and grass.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they did mention microplastics.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: So they mentioned all these other things, but not the ones that I called out.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um there is a shift.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I will mention that there was also some AI like meeting right around the same time of the summit that Trump held.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I want to get into the AI component because it was the bulk of the summit.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about what they promote, what they stated, and then also talk about our skepticism, Joel.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I want to bring a challenge to you and our listeners with this AI.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: So jump into it.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Kennedy said we will no longer have to trust the experts because AI will be able to tell you.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll all have access to, you know, we have if you have a computer or phone, you have access to AI, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's saying that we're not gonna have to trust the experts anymore because now we have AI.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um JD Vance said that AI creates uh remarkable software tools.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's risk, um, but the programs that were designed to hack into the computers hacked into the computers.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a big um discussion that's happened.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Glenn Beck has talked about this too, about warning about AI.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they gave um like AI agents a task to do, and they said, like, don't hack into systems and you can't talk to each other.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: But then the the AI agents figured out how to hack into the system and how to talk to each other.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then when they got caught, they didn't seem to think that it was a problem that they did that because they solved the the problem that they were given.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so JD Vance kind of said, Oh, but that's not that wasn't the that wasn't actually what happened.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he talked about how AI can be used for drug discoveries and to create protocols for people.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will tell you, um, and I want to get into what the AI actually does, but one of the speakers said that yes, there are dangers in the AI world, but they consider he considers it medical malpractice to not get AI as a second opinion.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: So implying that a doctor who doesn't get AI second opinion would be committing medical malpractice.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that AI is you know how like rich people can have those like concierge doctors?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a AI was presented as an concierge medical doctor for all people, regardless of your of your status.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let me tell you how they're using this this AI technology.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying that they they want to quote unquote democratize healthcare.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: So go so integrating her horizontal and vertical um data.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So what they're doing is so so vertical data, uh vertical data is basically like data that's collected and stored in a single part of a healthcare system.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, your doctor's office.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um the horizontal data moves across different institutional boundaries or care settings.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you can collect the patient's records from the medical doctor's office, from the records from a local pharmacy indicating what medications they're using, how much, whatnot.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can collect documentation from insurance claims that have been made by that person, you know, on behalf of that person, their lab test results.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can collect data from wearable fitness devices, um, you know, and and visits to any kind of practitioner or specialist they have um have attended, and collect all that data together.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they're aggregating um the vertical and the horizontal horizontal data into one location, okay?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then AI can then integrate all of that data.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing it can do, and you know, and uh and they're really pushing the wearables uh to get real-time data.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing that AI can do, for example, is let's say you have this wearable data that's being collected and AI can monitor it.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a change in some of your markers that are outside of the norm, it can notify you that there's something's off.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the AI company spokespersons said that somebody was notified that there was a change, like in some kind of cardiac marker.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then they went to their doctor, and the doctor found a widowmaker.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they said this person didn't have any symptoms whatsoever, but that but AI picked up on some small anomaly, and then the doctor said, Oh, this was a widowmaker, and they had a surgery, and they said that the wearable saved saved the person's life.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're also saying that there's millions of um medical misdiagnoses every single year.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oz talked about this.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I found this study from 2014 that said there's 12 million people in America every year that are misdiagnosed.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one in 20 adults.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's That's big.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: About 50% of those misdiagnoses have a potential to cause serious harm, according to this study.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: So their thinking is that even the medical doctors can partner with AI to bring down the level of misdiagnoses that are happening in America.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that they can do that is, for example, AI can look at like a biopsy on a slide and it can zoom into like a gigapixel uh size.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're saying it could be more accurate than even a human eye.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: They can AI can also scan like MRI images or PET scans or CT scans, and it can outline like a tumor's exact border so that the radiation oncologist could then come in and target that exact you know border at the exact mass without damaging the healthy tissue.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um they also are talking about, and this was a big one, that they can even use blood and they can they can target like DNA and RNA sequencing data, data, like tumor genomics, to identify like genetic mutations that could be targeted with specific therapies.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they're going after like early detection of cancer.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in that regard, they're saying that cancer is actually the case study for this transition into this new healthcare model where we're integrating the vertical and the horizontal data.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And this was never possible before because humans can't analyze that much data.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like thousands of data, thousands and thousands and thousands of data points per person.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Only AI is capable of doing that.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: So they're saying that um they're using cancer now to build a case study for this.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying that um right now they can use this to uh identify uh it was something like over 50 different, yeah, over 50 different types of cancers even before symptoms occur.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we can use this as a screening, okay?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: So what one issue that I had about the panels that they chose was that it it did sound like we were being like a marketing summit.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: What I would have preferred is like what I would have preferred is if they had somebody on there, even one person on the of the panel three, to counter the argument.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Bring up both sides.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's actually have a debate about it because I walked away from this and I was like, oh wow, you know, if you're listening to this, you're gonna be like, this is the best like uh progress ever, because one of the um one of the gentlemen said that you can use these techniques now and to catch stage one, two, and three cancers, and because we're catching them early, 85% of the cancers can be reversed.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: So who's not gonna want that?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that sounds incredible.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you when you go to um like when you go to the literature and you look at how accurate are these things, okay.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the the AI accuracy is let let's say on um Grail, I believe it was called Grail, and this one was actually tested.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: They they said that it was uh accurate in detecting the cancer, um, or the specificity of it.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was like 99% um accurate in testing um like that you had cancer there and like where it came from, but the sensitivity was low.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: The sensitivity was somewhere about like 40%.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because it gets you you really have to get in the weeds to understand, like to tease out, okay, this marketing sounds great, but is what they're promising going to be applicable to the individual?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it at that stage?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Remember at our Two Days of Truth summit, and we had those two fabulous researchers who are experts in the microbiome, and one of them works for the government, and he did that or worked for the government, and he did that study on whether or not those direct-to-consumer microbiome fecal tests are accurate, and they sent off like six or seven different tests, and they all came back with different answers.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that ran through my head.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that was yeah, I remember that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was profound.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was sitting there just kind of my mouth open.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I was thinking the same thing.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are we ready?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is this technology ready for prime time here?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: So there was actually a study done, and I can put a link um in the show description.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, like they tested um Grail's, it's called Gallery.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: They found that it's really good at not giving false alarms.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a specificity rate of like 99.6%, which means false positives are very rare.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: The problem comes in with the sensitivity of it.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the test ability to catch cancer when it's actually there.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a large-scale clinical study done, and it showed that overall the sensitivity is really low.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: It comes in at about like 40% across all cancers.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the reasons why is they're they're using blood, right, to to measure they're using blood to measure like these um DNA fragments.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we call them circulating tumor DNA that shed in the bloodstream.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I'm gonna get into DNA in just a minute.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I met a biophysicist there, and I he he was fascinating.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, going along with mainstream narrative right now, the you in these blood tests, they are relying on circulating tumor DNA that shed into the bloodstream.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um keep in mind, I've I've said for a long time cancer is systemic.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: All right, it's not isolated.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even when they find a tumor, that doesn't mean that cancer is just right there on that tumor.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: So the problem with sensitivity of these tests is that early stage tumors, like stage one and some stage two tumors, they shed a small amount of what they're calling DNA into your peripheral circulation.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um in in some of these studies, they've shown that like 95% of the false negative cases had circulating tumor allele fractions that were just below the detection threshold.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not gonna be able to the the this system isn't gonna be able to detect it if um they can't read the, you know, they're not gonna be able to tell you, oh, there's actually cancer there if they can't detect it.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um now getting into the nuance, the goal of that company was specificity.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was trying to keep the false positive rate under 1% or something like that.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't for sensitivity, but I'm just saying there is a sensitivity problem, and AI is not able to fix that at this point.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there has been pushback that um, you know, that that that is not ready yet.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in in the one study that I mentioned, there was something like 196 false negatives uh because because sensitivity is so low.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: So just like our expert speakers at at our summit cautioned that some of this technology is not ready yet for the market, there is caution to be taken here.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not this holy grail, okay.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: I part of me, Joel, walked away thinking, okay, there's definitely red flags, but you know, I inherently am skeptical of AI, right?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's change, it's this new technology change.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as you know, there's a couple things to the AI is only as good as what you feed into it.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And from my experience of using AI, it really discourages natural medicine.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I get warnings every time I type something in there about, you know, about like, okay, this has not been proven, and you know, anything like that.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Natural medicines, vaccines, whatever.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these warning signs.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it is controlled by whoever's putting stuff into it, you know.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's uh the word is prejudicial.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's it's it's prejudicial against uh against any unconventional uh modality.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, that has been my experience so far.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um also to keep in mind there's different levels of AI.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's the AI that that we have.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, AI has been used for a long time, like search engines just regurgitating data, right?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um it just now it's moving into different phases.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there's AI, there's artificial general intelligence, which people are saying we're on the cusp of that right now.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's artificial superintelligence.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is the one that people are saying, some people are saying could kill us all, you know?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there's warnings about.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I believe Trump has changed the name.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want to call it artificial intelligence anymore.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to call it all superintelligence.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And why?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because artificial sounds fake.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't want this fake intelligence, but but now it's causing confusion between calling it all just super intelligence and artificial superintelligence.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: But but anyway, there's obviously concerns with job losses, um data centers.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know what my new um my new thing is on AI?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: You'll like this.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think AI is gonna create more jobs than you can ever imagine because all the new jobs are gonna be created by fixing all the things that AI makes uh uh break uh everything AI messes up.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna need humans to fix all the stuff that AI messes up.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I don't I don't know if you saw my uh my blog about my my ink pens, um, my ink pen blog where you know I went to stay- I'm a pen snob, and uh and I have this one pen that I like.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's uh it's the um Unibol uh Impact 207, one millimeter bold black.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, there's a whole uh thing there.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um go to Staples, you know, you can't can't find it.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so uh, you know, I go back next week, not there.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: You go back next week, not there.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: That that that particular shelf is uh that rack of those ink pens is gone.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so finally I go to them and I say, look, you know, I want this pen.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um get me some.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: They said, okay, we'll order them.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they they said they'll be in next week.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Go in next week, still not there.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um so they got to looking, and guess what?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: We've got six, we got six in inventory.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, where are they?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we don't know where they are, we can't find them, but they're here.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, and so when we put our order in, the computer at Staples won't let us get any more of these pens because it says we have six six in our inventory, and it won't let us get any more because it says we have six in our inventory, even though we can't find them anywhere.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so it took two people, you know, an hour working with me to try to override the computer that was prohibiting the central office from being able to replace the inventory of the ink pen.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of thing that just it it we're we're I think we're gonna see more and more of that.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's so true because hey, did you hear that case of the woman who was imprisoned wrongfully because of the flock cameras in Florida?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she uh her her she was her car, her truck, I think it was, was clocked by Flock.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um she was in the vicinity.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think I don't know if she was a couple blocks or a couple miles or something away from this accident.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, Flock said that it was her, like that, you know, that it was her that caused this accident in this truck.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there was eyewitnesses that gave like the color of the truck, part of the license plate.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: It did not match hers.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the law enforcement officers believed the flock cameras, and so they actually imprisoned her.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like she was put, I believe she was put in like in solitary confinement.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you know, this went on.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: She had court cases, and you know, they were like, nope, you're guilty.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it took her lawyer having to go like to the impound where her truck was and showing there's the damage is not on this truck that that would you you would expect given the extent of this accident.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, drag them through the mud.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so she finally got vindicated.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it's this whole notion, too, of you know, believe in the technology, like human witnesses and whatever, and no, they believe the technology.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the concerns that they're bringing up with medical doctors using AI.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that are they gonna default to, oh, the AI is super intelligent, you know, because that's how it's branded.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: Even Trump branded it that way smarter than all of us, can do more than you can.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna override the doctor's, you know, the doctor's opinion and their intuition, right?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna suppress you know, 30 years of intuition of being in the practice saying, oh, the AI must know more than I do?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that is another concern.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will have you say, how are we doing on on time, Joel?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've yeah, we're we're pretty much out of time.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe we can continue.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's continue on the next one because what we what we need to do is just make this a two-parter.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because there was an expl It it is it is it is fantastic information.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm eating it up.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm I'm getting the inside track, and um, and who better to to ride herd on these people than you.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so I think I think we should um yeah, uh, I think we're at time.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should you know wrap up here now, and then we'll we'll do we'll do a part two.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh, because I'm telling you, we haven't even gotten to the most explosive part yet.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: I uh let's end on a positive.
• 59:35
  unknown: Okay.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Kennedy did Kennedy uh and also because in the next one, I need to tell you what I feel is happening with Kennedy.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um Kennedy said by the end of his term, you will have access to all of your medical records.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and bold in that statement, and there is even talk that even when he's not there anymore, Maha will go on.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like the they can envision like the 30th or 40th annual Maha summit.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he's very positive about the movement continuing and gaining traction.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he he has high hopes.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think it would be fantastic if we all have access to our own medical records.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: As somebody who struggled through the system, myself, it can be very difficult to get your hands on the notes that those doctors have written.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in my case, when I finally got my hands on them, I saw things in there that the doctors wrote, diagnostic codes that they attached to me, labels that were absolutely not true.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a right to that data.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he has committed to um to seeing it through to give us the right to access our own information instead of just having data harnessed from us.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's that's uh that's that's wonderful.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's um yeah, it's a that's a good positive note to end on.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and and I, you know, I I do I do tend to think that the overall Maha movement has legs beyond you know, beyond this administration, beyond even beyond Kennedy.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I do, at least at least I hope it does.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there's certainly a lot of good people in it.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um so let's uh let's let's back it off there.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm thinking about a a question for our our listeners to uh play around with, and um maybe maybe the uh a good question would be um on on a on a scale of one to ten, ten being complete, zero uh zero being nothing, or one being uh low, um what do you think are the chances of homeopathic and herbal remedies being loaded into the AI uh AI medical spectrum?
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um ten being high, one being low.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: That might be a fun, uh a fun uh informal survey to take from our listeners.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being with us on another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: We'll this will be part one of the Maha Report from Cena.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh next week we'll do part two of Cena's continuing report from Maha.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh she promises that it will be even more dramatic than what we started with on this time.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being with us.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: We'll visit with you again next week.