Latest / The Uncommons / The Emotional Reality of Co-Parenting No One Talks About | Ep10

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The Emotional Reality of Co-Parenting No One Talks About | Ep10 · The Uncommons

• speaker-0: We've been co-parenting for almost nine years and it started very different from where we are today. speaker-1: I did not want to stay in a relationship with somebody because we have a child together, especially after what I've been through. speaker-0: Nobody warns you and nobody prepares you how you become a parent and a co-parent overnight and we still struggle with it. speaker-1: partners had a picture with him and three of his wives in one picture. I'm like that's success. Two x-y's and current. Any man that could pull that... This is my hero. speaker-0: 2XY. The first few years I struggled with accepting that there is another woman who's going to be in my life forever, no matter what. speaker-1: our difficult times has grown us into this deep, deep love. speaker-0: Hi everyone, welcome to the OnCommons podcast where we challenge the ordinary and explore what it really takes to build a fulfilling life. I'm Parisa. Paige. And today we're going to talk about something that's been very challenging in our life, but it's been also helping us to grow a lot along the way. And it still does. It's still challenging. It still ⁓ pushes our buttons every once in a while. and it still requires a lot more growth as we're going through it. We've been co-parenting for over eight years now, almost nine years, and it started very different from where we are today. The type of challenges that we've been going through has changed. The intensity of lot of things have changed. There has been a lot of bumps along the way that we had to ride and we had to figure it out as we maneuvered through life, that we were never given any instructions on how to do it. We just figured it out based on experience and how, as we went on. And also there has been a fair amount of uncertainties since we started and we stepped into this journey. How do you feel about that? speaker-1: It's a rough topic for me. ⁓ But we did get some help. We did have counseling. Yes, we did. It wasn't just us figured out completely on our own. even getting counseling and identifying who we talk to and who we want to choose to guide us in this path was also a growth experience within itself. speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like that was a part of figuring it out. So we had to reach out, we had to ask for help. We had to find out who would be the best in each. And we've talked to so many different people along the way. So it's not just like one person told us do this and that was it. speaker-1: Right, right. And then, and then it wasn't just the therapist, you know, I had asked a few of my friends who I thought were able to manage a successful ⁓ relationship when they were co-parenting or having, you know, a difficult situation with exes and kids and two exes. Three, yeah. speaker-0: in some cases. speaker-1: interesting role models. But to me, success would be one of my partners had a picture with him and three of his wives in one picture. I'm like, that's success. Two ex-wives and current. But to me, that's success. I'm like, any man that could pull that is my hero. know, I'm stuck in, you know, one. But speaker-0: Two X Y's. speaker-1: I'm definitely not in the same picture. speaker-0: So I know it's a triggering conversation, but here we go. It's going to be raw as you like it. Now we're going through a little bit of a rough patch in our co-parenting journey, which we'll talk about, but let's go back to where it started. We'd known each other for a few months through an organization that we were both volunteering, helping out with. I had known of you. speaker-1: Especially triggering now. speaker-0: and about you, but not that involved. And a few months later, we got together, we started talking, not even dating really, just talking. And a few, a couple of weeks, I think, into our talking, ⁓ you figured out that your ex-girlfriend was pregnant. It was very interesting for me to figure the way I figured it out, because she called me and told me, so it was out of nowhere, just flash news. And we kind of backed off. We tried to figure out what it means really. I don't think neither one of us fully comprehended what it would entail. At the time we had an idea, but now that I look back, I'm like, ⁓ we had no clue what was gonna happen. But ⁓ basically after a few months of back and forth, ⁓ there were decisions made. I remember we both got together and we both decided that, ⁓ unanimously, you decided that this is a path you wanna go forward with. You don't wanna go back to that relationship, because, I mean, you can explain it better, but I'm along the lines of having more tension there that might hurt the child even more in the future than having a separate family for him. speaker-1: It was difficult, but not so difficult. It was difficult that I knew that another child's life is involved. Right. But it was very clear that no matter what, that is not the path I want to take, meaning that being with someone because we have a child together. And I guess I've never actually, as we talk about it, I've never thought about it before how ⁓ a really damaging relationship to me personally, from my, parents, because they constantly fought and I, I've always thought they should have never been together all that long, but they were together because of the kids, which is our society. That's what people do. It is normal. And I swore myself, I would never have a relationship like that. And one behold. something like that happens that ⁓ and it really wasn't that I didn't care for this woman. I think she's a great human being and I think she's a very kind, gentle and a lot of great attributes. However, I knew that no matter what my feelings were and these attributes were long term, this is not somebody that I would be able to live with for the rest of my life. Not at all. speaker-0: Very good fit. speaker-1: Not, I mean, it was not a fit at all. And I don't want to get into the details of why, it just doesn't matter. It was my choice. I know what I wanted to have in my life. I want to, I know where I want to go. I'm very clear at any given time what I'm doing and where I'm going in my life. And it was just not going to work out. And I just did not want to drag a child into that. So I did not want to stay in a relationship with somebody because we have a child together. Right. And especially after what I've been through. So I was very clear about the minute that I realized that I'm going to be in someone's life. It was also very clear because she gave me an option to not be part of his life. And it was very clear that that is not going to happen. speaker-0: you speaker-1: I take full responsibility for everything in my life, always. And certainly this. And also I had a friend of mine who had a very similar situation that was in a not so serious relationship and they had a child and he chose not to be involved in that child's life. speaker-0: So you're saying the opposite. speaker-1: Right. when I, when I, ⁓ and we were close friends, when he told me that was his decision, I just, it just didn't feel right. It didn't feel right enough that I just didn't think I would even want to have a long-term relationship with that friend of mine because it, it just so showed me such weakness. and lack of responsibility, which, you know, I think that's one of my core values in my life. And I knew I could not live with myself knowing that I have a child with another woman and I just can't, just, doesn't, it's not in my DNA, right? I couldn't live with myself for one second to not be involved. Right? So it was very clear. speaker-0: to not be involved. speaker-1: And I made that very clear to you that under no circumstances that I'm not going to be in this kid's life. Right. So as difficult as it was, some of the things were really easy because I was resolved in the fact that I am going to be in this kid's life. And it was resolved that I will not be able to have a long term relationship with this woman. Right. Under any circumstances. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: then the next path was clear. And I know a lot of people get stuck in the middle and whatever it was. at least that portion of it was relatively easy. Thank God. Because if it's like a directional force, right? It's like a fork in your life. If you take this fork, you go down the path, know, months and years, decades go by and you will realize that's not the right thing, whatever it is. But I knew right at the beginning, that's my path. And I think that clarity set our relationship up very straight on how things are gonna be. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, and I had a very strong calling intuitively because it just I remember like it was yesterday that we got together and you were like, I have decided 100 percent I'm involved in this kid's life and I am going to raise him and I'm not going to even for a second doubt just because somebody gave me an option and I just want to make sure that I put give it my 200 % no matter the circumstances. And I remember that at the same time I had this thing that I will do my best and that's my commitment that I will treat him like my own kid. I would do whatever I would do for my own kid for him and I will just give him all my love as much as I can. And it wasn't a moment of doubt in that. So it was a very strong. decision that we both made and happened to be aligned at the same time. And from there on, it was just straightforward path for until like, at least we knew that our commitments match and align, which was very helpful. speaker-1: There was another thing that was, was very resolute about, which was the most important part of all this stuff. knew that I wanted you. Right. I've been through a lot of relationships and, I always say to people, I created my wife. I worked with this lady that, that we've, we connected with the universe and I manifested that relationship that I wanted. ideally and it was it was you and within a very short time I knew that as well. I mean I'm really lucky that I was very clear and resolute about these main three things. The most important of which was you right because the other ones were simpler for me because it's just my DNA. Being in a relationship is not part of my DNA. Was not part of my DNA and speaker-0: was not. speaker-1: And I could never commit to any way. We talked about other episodes. could not commit. But I'm the kind of person that's just like, if I commit, I commit. speaker-0: think one of the things that brought, maybe for me at least, that brought a lot more clarity on our relationship together is that from the get-go, we had this thing that felt like a challenge. It ⁓ was not a huge obstacle, didn't feel like a huge obstacle. For a lot of people, maybe it would have been, but it felt like a challenge and we were dealing with it. And the way we dealt with it. ⁓ it kind of clarified a lot of stuff. Like ⁓ I at least got this reassurance that we can deal with challenging stuff together, you know, and we have the ability to navigate through things together. There was a lot of uncertainty. There was a lot of unknown of what's going to happen after the child is born. But at least I knew that if we can deal with something like this. from the beginning together and navigate through it the way we did, it just gave me the reassurance that we can deal with a lot more and face a lot more and be on the same page. And it was very interesting because I had this, once we had that conversation that you were saying you were committed to this child 100 % and I was saying, I'm committed to you and this child 100%. My request was that we get married before he's born because there was a lot of uncertainty and unclarity in my head. And I knew once this child comes and his mom is in the picture, I would feel sensitive to some things and I would feel maybe insecure about some stuff. But I did not want my relationship with you to be another source of uncertainty. I wanted to feel like we are together, we are married. There's no question of should we be together now or not? after things get super hard. I wanted to be able to deal with that knowing that we are fully secure and there's no question of, should I stay with him? Does he want to still be with me after this child is born? There's no question about that. So it was a very difficult decision to have a wedding. We did a very small wedding. Your mom was a big contribution to that because she had the stage for cancer and she... had dealt with it for seven and half years, which you kept her alive instead of the timeline that the doctors gave her, which was like a few months, which we'll talk about in another episode. But ⁓ her biggest wish was to be in our wedding. So we put a wedding together in less than two months and it was a small gathering ceremony, felt very year, but my family couldn't come. because we put it together so fast. They live in another country, so they're getting a visa, all that good stuff. even though it was difficult, even though it was difficult and my family wasn't there, your mom was super sick, we knew a child is coming into our life. A lot of uncertainty, but it just felt right because we wanted to start it with a right base. Like I wanted the child to come to us feeling like he's going to a family. not going to a dad with a girlfriend or to a dad who is engaged, which by the way, he's been engaged three times before. So not too much certainty in that. So that's what we did. We had a wedding and two weeks later, voila. ⁓ speaker-1: The baby came. Yeah, but that whole scenario, for so many reasons, A, it brought us so much closer to each other. As a man, knowing that I have this unbelievable woman, absolutely gorgeous, beautiful, great ass. speaker-0: Don't bring my ass in the middle of this. speaker-1: And, but more importantly, the wisdom that she brings with her that has a foresight of saying we need to be married before the child comes. And just every step of the way, but, she would tell this man who is two decades older than her that I love you so much and I see so much in you that I'm willing not to take you with all your age difference on but also a child and whatever is going to come out out of that will manage not only shows me that she's committed and she loves me, but the warrior, the Iranian Persian woman, powerful warrior that I always wanted in my life. and that strength that would be able to deal with me, you know, and this life at the level I live my life. Not on any, I'm not just, I'm not saying I'm special, but I just know I'm a fucking handful. Right? And I know that and I just know, and I, you know, I'm, I'm, speaker-0: Maybe. speaker-1: you know, I've been around the block and I'm, you know, I wasn't going to get married unless I have somebody like a queen. Right? So that. that energetic connection and that knowledge and that knowing of all those things has made it so easy for me to go against whatever has internally been brought up to me because of my whatever whatever the reason was that I just could not stay in a relationship ever. and makes it extremely easy to be in a relationship. I always thought of relationships of losing your freedom. I've always like, was so worried about losing my freedom. And I had a therapist many years ago that told me that a relationship is freedom and right relationship. And today I feel completely free. I'm free to go hang out with my friends, whatever I want. I'm free to go and travel and do all the stuff that I've done with, you training. I'm always growing. I'm always doing all this crazy shit. And yet I have no interest. I mean, I do it because I want to grow, but I have no interest. don't go out drinking with my friends. just have no interest in doing it. I have complete freedom of being who I am, where I am, when I am. And that freedom, that relationship and that trajectory of our relationship was based right at the beginning on speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: how resolute I was in certain things and how resolute you were in certain things and to this day and I disagree with you by the way, I don't think it was easy. I think this having what we went through was absolutely difficult and I would say 99 % of relationships would fall apart. A dying mom and woman's energy in our lives, a brand new baby that you have to take on at such a young age, right? Our age difference, our religion, different religions, like everything was set against us. And that strength and power to go against everything that is against us and to survive and do what nobody thought we were going to say to get. First of all, people, even my own dad, on our wedding night. He thought I was not going to show up. then when I did show up, he goes to my best friend and is this for real? Is this happening? speaker-0: You're not gonna show up. I'm like, ⁓ my God, is he gonna run away? speaker-1: Right? And so, so, and a lot of my friends that didn't know we got married, because we got married so quickly and, you because of my mom dying and because of, you just all this stuff. Right? ⁓ When I told them like, you got married, like, it was just like, it was an absolute conflict of interest. And yet, here we are. speaker-0: I still enjoy seeing the shock on people's face. Like if they haven't seen you in so long and you're like, I'm married with three kids. The jaw drop. speaker-1: Yeah, people just can't believe it, you know, and, and now the life that we have. speaker-0: So going back to, thank you for all the beautiful stuff you told about me. But honestly, it's like I said easy, I didn't meant the path was easy. I meant the decision. It just felt right. It was just one of those things that I had this inner knowing that I was, by the way, at the time I had worked on myself for so long to not live in my head and get caught up in my anxiety and just feel. and go based on what feels intuitively right. And it was one of those things that it really felt right. And I knew that you're somebody that I would look up to and admire for many, many, many, many years. So I just felt like no matter what happened, you are somebody that I could feel safe with. And it was my inner knowing. It was that I felt... that you are the right person for me without questioning anything. But also you made me feel so safe. You you went so much out of your way, even though you were emotional, even though you were angry at times, even though you had all these ups and downs of within you going on about what's coming and what you were stepping into. But I felt like you had the ability and the maturity to handle all that, but be there for me, make me feel safe, make me feel seen, not let me question that is he gonna have my back once the child comes or not. That thought didn't even enter my head once. And that's a lot. And I think, I honestly think our age difference helped a lot because of that, because you were so wise when the child was born. I remember when you went to see him first time, I was with your mom at the hospital because a few weeks after our wedding, she ended up in the hospital and she never got out and that was it. ⁓ So I was so happy that she was there. She would stay for the whole time. I was with her. You went to see the child for the first time. But just that was the moment that hit me that I am a new bride and I feel like I want to have all your attention and all like feel so special, you know? But there is a child that a lot of your energy and focus is going towards, whether positively, negatively, whatever it is, like a lot of it is drawn that way. ⁓ I'm sitting next to your mom and she is not gonna make it. And I kind of felt like, okay, well, emotionally, I feel like I wish I had more attention and more I could live. a little longer of more than two weeks of a new bright life before getting into challenges. But I also had this moment of duality that emotionally I'm being pulled that way. But I know that I got to step it up. Like this is it. Either I get drawn in my emotions and become the victim of, my God, I didn't get to blah, or I just step up and be like, okay, this is what needs my attention. This is what needs my... a little more of my logical side, a little more of my wise side, and this is where we're going. Because the other alternative path would lead me to disaster, basically, getting so emotionally full of myself. So that was, I remember clearly, that was the first time that I had this duality that I need to shift towards this because it's just the right thing to do. The first few years, I... struggled with accepting that there is another woman who's gonna be in my life forever, no matter what. She once wanted to be in my position. She once wanted to live my life. And now she's here and I have to accept it and make peace with it. And she's not going anywhere. That was probably the hardest. realization to fully embody and accept for me. And it took me a few years. You know, it wasn't an easy thing. Like I fought it in my head, in my actions not, but in my head, in the back of my mind. I just, it was very hard for me to accept. speaker-1: It was really hard for me for a few years at the beginning. ⁓ As resolute as I was about not being with that woman, no matter what, because it's the wrong thing. But when you emotionally thought about it, ⁓ there's a woman with a child that I could have easily been there. to support them, right? But my wisdom and clarity told me it's the wrong thing, right? I knew that deep inside it's the wrong thing. But fighting with myself internally with these emotions that would come up and the guilt, huge amount of guilt, and it's difficult because I did feel guilty, but I knew down deep inside it's the right thing. speaker-0: kill speaker-1: And I often think that maybe the severity of these decisions that we had to make to and living by these decisions gave us that much more strength to continue the path and have this relationship that we have now. But it certainly was just unbelievably crazy, intense and And we're still dealing with the fact that we didn't know each other more than five or six months before we got married. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. We didn't, we dated for that long. speaker-1: We dated for that long. We knew each other. We knew each other longer, but we dated for only six months. which, you know, was up to me. went, oh, we got a date for three, four years and then I could find a way to run away. know, but so just just look, the world conspires for what's supposed to be the right way. You know, and speaker-0: You speaker-1: Even my mom's passing conspired, this child conspired. And another thing that I think is conspired is now that I see you as the kind of mom you are to a child that is not from you. And what you do for this child is adjust the amount of love you have inside of you, no matter what, we have two other kids and he did not come from you. Right? No matter what. I don't care how you want to sugarcoat that. It's a reality. But the way you deal with this and the way your wisdom and even your wisdom to guide me when I get pissed off at his mom for some stupid whatever, right, is is unbelievable, mostly how much love you have for this child makes me love you even more. Not because it's my son. I mean, that too, yes. But like, what an amazing woman that has the ability and the strength. to do that. To be able to be able to see through the and see through the weeds and deal with my emotions and be able to say, you know, it's just, you know, it'll go away. You know, this is the child. This is the best thing for the child. At times I wouldn't see these things and you would. So that that strength, power, wisdom, love, depth of the love, the ability to love somebody so much that is not your own. I couldn't do that. That makes me know what real love is. That's a definition of love for me. I love you, I love sleeping with you, I love all that. Which is people's definition of love. My love is like being deeply in love with the attributes of another human being. To me is real love. That's. Just, mean, I, every night I hold you in my arm before we go to sleep and I thank God that I must have done something wrong in my life to have this woman lay next to me right now. So our difficult times has grown and grown us into this, at least for me, this deep, deep love. And on top of that, I have a child that has two moms and his mom is a very nice woman. He's lucky to have his mom. There's a lot of love that he has. He has two moms as far as I'm concerned. speaker-0: I thought he says two, which is so sweet. Like if somebody asks him, says, I have two. speaker-1: Yeah, he has got two moms and he's the apple of my eye. I love this boy. It's just like, am so just all of it is a blessing. It's not easy, but it's just the greatest blessing of life. Better than all the jets and all the cars and all the money in the world and all that. This podcast is about fulfillment and I've spent years and years and years identifying what's fulfillment is. I know a lot of billionaires that are not happy. And so. speaker-0: Most of it comes from their family life. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. So difficult times, not running away from difficult times and facing the challenges. The fear goes away. Trust, energy, love, God, whatever comes through. speaker-0: And I think one of the biggest things that at least I learned through the process, two things. One was I just learned not to hold back, you know, because I kind of felt like the definition of holding back or the outcome of holding back is a half-ass life, pretty much, you know? And I kind of like I had this baby since he was... in my arms, like two months old. And I'm like, either I can have all these emotions, no turmoil in my head, right? But first of all, who can hold back love from a little baby like that? Like, I think it helped so much that I had him since he was so little. It helped a lot. It helped so much that, like, I, he goes through a lot of challenges, which we'll talk about, but. I think it might've even helped him that he didn't go through parents separating. Like this is all he knew since he was born. He comes to us, I'm there, he goes to his mom, his mom is there, right? So hence him telling everybody he has two moms. That's all he's seen since he was born. But not holding back was, didn't come, it came easy to me in a lot of senses, but when my insecurities were out. it would hold me back. Right? So dealing with all those was, it took a few years, you know? I remember it was a pumpkin patch that he wanted to go to and he wanted to go with his mom. And you were like, well, we're going and his mom is coming too. And I'm like, I don't want to go to a pumpkin patch with his mom. And you're like, no, we're going. I want to be there when my kid goes to pumpkin patch. And I want you to be there too. And his mom's coming. And I'm like, It was a big thing. It was the first time we did something all of us together. So it was very difficult for me to even imagine that. The amount of anxiety I'm getting just talking about it. This woman, I say hi, she doesn't respond to me. Why would I want to be there? Let's not go. And you're like, no, I want to be there. I want to be there with my child. I'm like, well, we take him separately to pumpkin patch. No, we're going with his mom. I'm like, argh. Which was a little. Tough. think that was the first big fight we had over it, over punky facts. But now we can laugh about it. At the time, I was just like, so... speaker-1: And not to make things easier. His mom wasn't easy. Like she hated you. She was still in love with me. And it was like this energy and her energy was like in the middle of our relationship. Yeah, big, energy. speaker-0: You know, was, it was, there was a lot of guilt at the same time for me, like shame almost. I had people actually telling me like, how could you go with him and ruin this child's life? Like if you weren't there, he would have been with her and his son. And it was so hard for me to hear because I'm not the type to stand up and like defend myself per se. when somebody tells me something like that, but I'm just like, there was shame for me, you know? Even though that was not the case and it was not the scenario that would ever happen, you knew it, I knew it. But it was shameful for me to feel like I'm living this happy life and I'm just so, I just had another baby. Like our relationship together is so beautiful. We're living a beautiful life and there is a woman. that suffering because she's witnessing our beautiful life and she's suffering because she's witnessing our love. And it was heartbreaking for me to just accept that, you know, like, how can I, like, I want to be happy, but then I also feel guilty. I want to feel fulfilled that we have, building this beautiful life together, but I also know that somebody else wanted to have my life and she's watching and she's right there. It was hard because I would, what do call it? Oscillate? Oscillate between the duality of feeling so compassionate for this woman and which is mixed with guilt and shame and wanting to go so much out of my way to give to her and the kid to an extent of kind of making up for my guilt. Right? ⁓ I do identify as a former people pleaser. So not so much former. Like I love giving love to people. You know, it's just like, love it. I know there's a lot of stigma about being a people pleaser. I think people pleasing has a lot of amazing attributes. You know, it has helped us a lot. Like I would do anything to please you, you know, but I know you do that for me too. That end of the spectrum. versus going through being angry about something like going to pumpkin patch or being angry about, ⁓ I need, I feel insecure now. I need boundaries. Now I need to, I don't have boundaries. I need to set up solid boundaries. I to set up solid boundaries. Like there was a time that you were telling me, what if like Leon grows up and he wants me to go have dinner with him and his mom? speaker-1: You tried? speaker-0: one night and I'm like no that can never happen you know and yeah but if you were to go I wouldn't mind today but then he would probably want me there too so it's like that speaker-1: It hasn't happened yet. I want you more than me. I remember, I mean, I had to go have meetings with her and oh my God, like I would come back to a disaster like you all broke in. if it was more than an hour, you know, just like it was... speaker-0: That's That's such. and stare at the clock the whole time. speaker-1: Yeah, was, was, was still, it still is still is to this day. If I don't know what happened, I was, I was there and then I went to get something from the store afterwards. speaker-0: Because you always call me right after. Because you know I'm anxious. And then didn't call me for an hour later. I'm like, what are you talking about for two hours? speaker-1: Yeah, and I thought it was over. I don't need to make sure you're okay. So I went to the store and you were freaking out. Still. Still. speaker-0: Bit of But no, that duality, I mean, we deal with it a lot. I deal with it a lot of having compassion. But what are our boundaries? Like even with simple tasks, simple things, like she texts me, she's supposed to bring him over. She texts me, can you come pick him up? Like without any context, no reason. And I'm like, do I set a boundary now or do I just do it? You know, it's just like, is it something that is going to be repetitive? And then... ⁓ She is just putting all the responsibility on me or is it like there's so much to analyze, to think about, I always, usually I go back to, I'll just give, we'll see what happens. At least when we look back, I'm not gonna feel like, ⁓ well, I made her life difficult or the kid's life difficult. That's the last thing I want. speaker-1: and crazy enough, surprising enough, you're always advocating for her, for us to do stuff for her. Like we go out of our way. mean... speaker-0: Well, she doesn't think that. That's the thing. Like it's a managing expectations at the same time too, right? So there is a perspective of how we see things and there's a perspective of how she sees things. And usually that kind of misses somehow, never like hits together. We do things and we expect a little bit of appreciation, but the way she sees it is like completely different. So. Even that, I have decided, made a conscious decision to not have expectation for appreciation, for even seeing eye to eye with things. But I know you do have that expectation. speaker-1: It's really difficult to continue giving when it's almost become expected. was this thing that Tony talks about, Tony Robbins, is like, you who's on a flight going back and forth to Australia. And for the first time, the flight had satellite Wi-Fi. So they get on and everyone is cheering. Yes, we got, you know, we have Internet. And after 10 minutes the internet breaks down and it was an uproar in the airplane like what the fuck happened? And it was now immediately becomes an expectation, right? And being able to continue giving even though this become an expectation. But more importantly for you, I'm just and I'm just baffled like we bought a house. ⁓ really, really nice house for her and Leon to live in. It was for my son, but you know, she's living in a great house and all that kind of stuff, right? And we could have used that money. There was no expectations for us to do any of that stuff. None. Right? And that's just a bigger one. But all the time there's stuff that we do, but a lot of women would say, why are you spending a million dollars on her? And you know, on that where we could use it somewhere else for us or for our savings or our future or whatever it might be, you know, and just having the wisdom on your end to see that would benefit our child and loving that child enough that you want so much for him. Right. It just means the world to me. speaker-0: you You know what I don't want? I don't want him to grow up and look back and say, how could you live such a good life while my mom was suffering? Like I don't want him to feel, to even say to himself, like how could I as her child go to my dad and go on this trip and live such a beautiful life and let my mom suffer? Like I don't want... that emotional charge for this kid. We went even talking a few weeks ago to, we have a summer vacation that we already got for Hawaii. We were like, how are we gifted to him to go with his mom? Things like that, it makes me happy. feel like I don't want, I mean, I don't want to see any human being not live a good life. And somebody living so close to us, and no matter. what we want and how we feel, she's gonna be in our life forever. So just accepting that has helped a lot. I wanna live peacefully and I want us to look back, both of us, to look back like 20 years from now and be like, okay, we really did everything in our power to make sure that we do the right thing, to make sure that we give, to make sure that we don't not only cause suffering in another human being, but also if we can take away suffering, we don't neglect that. You know? I think that feeling 20, 30 years down the road is worth it. It would be worth it. speaker-1: Yeah, but doesn't make it easy. It is. And I look at some of our friends lives that they have three or four kids. There's no other woman. And, you know, they have other challenges, but, you know, it's a challenge for us. And. speaker-0: Doesn't make it do. It's a challenge that nobody warns you and nobody prepares you that how you become a parent and a co-parent overnight with a child, like what it really takes to manage it. And we still struggle with it. I mean, we just had a recent episode of... some beautiful words being thrown around, know? We still struggle with it, but... speaker-1: I think with your phone. It really tests me because I don't have a filter and it really tests me. And sometimes I break. I just lose it. But years will go by and I think the lesson, at least for me, has been that you're not going to control whatever happens. speaker-0: you speaker-1: on the outside, right? So it doesn't matter what challenge it is. This is a big challenge, know, business challenges, relationship challenges, our kid almost losing our kid has been one of the biggest challenges of my life. know, luckily he's alive. It's the same kid, same kid, you know, and just challenges will come. and keeping our relationship first and knowing that as bad as it feels, that growth is going to bring us closer. And if we're able to use the history of going through a rough thing, if it doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger kind of a thing. But in a relationship is bonding us even more. And every ups and downs that we have and we go through it. I think the lesson for me is that our bond is stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger. And ⁓ definitely well worth the difficulty, pain, heartbreak, know, whatever emotions that we go through. the in the past decade between my businesses, between and all this stuff that's happened, the daily issues and those we deal with with the co-parenting and stuff like that, at least has allowed me to realize that the, and I think from all the reading that I do, the biggest struggle of man is the internal struggle. Right? And being able to maintain that. level, no matter what happens on the outside world, if it's the mom or the accident or whatever happens, all the other issues that we had with our other kids, you know, whatever it might be that us being able to maintain the flow and the ability not to go up and down as much. mean, I've learned, I used to be, I mean, you know, I'm very aggressive. I'm very type A and being able to calm that down, especially with my son's mom, right? That's been a great, great learning experience. speaker-0: Yeah, and I think one of the things that at least for me pulls me and causes that up and down is it's really fear. Yeah, I've learned to check in with myself and Really think about it. Like is am I is this because of fear? Am I feeling like this because I'm afraid of? whatever it could be even afraid of like Things being unfair or afraid of me being the last person on the list and taking the hit for everybody or afraid of ⁓ losing you, afraid of ⁓ Leon, the kid being mad at me or afraid of somebody not liking like, what is this? Is this really a fear? Because that's usually what makes me off balance. There is a fear involved. I'm angry. There is a fear. I'm overreacting. There is a fear. Like if I can I've really learned that if I can check in, that's why, like even when I feel off balance, I don't come to you right away. Like I really need a little time to figure out what is this over there, like underneath all of it that's steering the whole pot. And it's always a fear of some sort. So that helps me when I go into that fear to kind of like pull myself out of it. Cause there's always fear of everything. You know, there's always things that could go wrong, but in the last nine years, things that went right have been so much more and so much more rewarding than things that I thought were going wrong. So finding that fear has been really, really rewarding for me. But I still struggle so much between compassion and boundaries. I do. And I'm like practicing things about like compassionate boundaries. it just doesn't stick well with me. Boundaries in general don't stick well with me. Like I think I need to have them because of some sort of a fear, but compassion feels so much better, no matter what. Even though underneath of it, when I'm compassionate, I have the fear of what if. I'm the last person. what if I'm not prioritizing me? What about me? Like, that's the fear underneath. Even when I go to compassion, that's there. But with all that, feels better naturally to me than boundaries. It's just, I know it's against everything that everybody talks about now that you have to solid boundaries and you have to blah, blah, blah, blah. I just have a hard time with boundaries. It's just... my weakness. speaker-1: I think we both do, right? I think if you're compassionate and you have a lot of love inside of you, then the distance between love, compassion, and having enough trust in your compassion that you set boundaries so other people can grow. That's been my biggest challenge, right? I just want to take care of everybody. and handicaps people. one of my biggest fears is I don't want to do that to my children. speaker-0: And you know what you told me about like, no matter what happens, like I didn't give birth to him. When I was pregnant with my first biological child, my biggest fear was having different feelings for her than for Leon, which would be technically my stepchild. And she came to the world and it felt different. And it was hard. And I know it was hard for you too. It was biology. Like naturally it just felt different. I gave birth to this child, baby. And I just didn't have any control over it, all the hormones. Like, you know, I didn't go through any of that with him, even though I had him since he was little. And it was scary to feel, you know, I was like, what if I can't love him as much? What if... I made a promise that I'll do everything I can, the best that I can, treat him like my own kid. What if I can't? Like the first few times that he started like hitting the baby or whatever, I was like, holy shit, like what do I do? I want to kill him because he's like hurting my baby. I would have killed anything that would hurt my baby. But then I love him. Like I was just like, you know, it was, I was forcing it to feel the same. And it took me a while to accept that. it's okay if it feels different. And I can still manage. Like, after seeing them, the kids being so close to each other, I was just like, okay, it's okay. Like, I don't have to feel guilty of feeling different. But the first time I said it out loud, I said it to a friend who is a stepmom, and ⁓ I told her, I'm like, I can't tell this to anybody. I feel so guilty to say it. I've never told anyone, but I don't love them the same. And I don't mean that I love him any less. It's just different natures of love, you know? speaker-1: But A, I think it's very normal when you have a baby, all your hormones or whatever it is. And now I feel it balanced out. I honestly don't see that much difference anymore. speaker-0: different than when the baby was born. speaker-1: Yeah, it's different. And with the second baby born, it wasn't as bad as the first one being born. But I know now there's like an even, it's almost even. don't see any, and I see your love, in fact, growing a lot more for Lele. It's just beautiful. speaker-0: I was a first time mom, you know. But this kid has been our wise, wise teacher. Each kid has taught us in many ways, but this one specifically has pushed us to grow in many forms that we would not have. I don't think we would have such a beautiful relationship if it wasn't for him. He really pushed us to get married. Thank you. speaker-1: Getting married. speaker-0: Thank you, Sir Ron. But no, it really like fed us up to go through challenges head first and not let fear hold us back because it was a big fear that came with him. And I know it was so difficult for you to still is to see him go away, you know, like your heart beating out of your body and he's gone for half the time. and come back and like the first few years, like when he was gone, you were not yourself. You still are not your best self when he's not around. I think you're adapting a lot more. speaker-1: I'm doing a lot better. I mean, at one point it was like something was missing all the time. Now I understand it. speaker-0: And I would get jealous. Initially, I was just like, I lost my husband, you know, the kid is gone and he is like, not fully here. speaker-1: So thank God for everything that's happened. don't question it at all. I did at the beginning. And I give a lot of credit to his mom as well. not saying, I mean, I can't imagine how hard it for her to go through this. And she's unmarried. And being in situation that we're married, I give a lot of credit that she works well with us. And she's a loving mom. I don't want to take it. And that's been really helpful for also for her to make decisions. speaker-0: That it really depends on, we talked about this about like focus and meanings. It really comes back to focus on meanings again, because a little thing happens, we can give it the worst meanings ever. And ⁓ she doesn't respect, she doesn't this, she doesn't like, there's a lot of meanings that we can give. And the focus goes there. While what you're talking about now. is that she's loving. She's like, everybody has such positive attributes, no matter what. Like there's not a single human being that has zero positive, you know? So just focus. I mean, yeah, in jail, hopefully. But focusing on that helps a lot. It's not, it doesn't mean that now that we're talking about it, then we are like, ⁓ life is so beautiful. It doesn't feel like that all the time. speaker-1: I'm sure there are some people that are like that, buddy. course not. speaker-0: Now that we're focusing on it, on the beautiful parts of it, because we're talking about it, it feels like that. A lot of times we drift away from it, but then shifting the focus back, it helps. helps a lot. Meditation, Zen practices. Well, thank you so much for watching, listening. speaker-1: meditation. ⁓ speaker-0: If you haven't subscribed to our podcast, please do so. This is our 10th episode. I feel so accomplished. I feel so good. And we can't wait to share more of this beautiful, messy, happy, ugly, ⁓ angry, whatever comes with it with you, the reality of life. ⁓ I think we're learning so much to embrace all of it together. speaker-1: Beautiful. speaker-0: rather than just wanting everything to be happy and wanting everybody to be settled. And ⁓ we're just learning to embrace it all. And thank you for giving us opportunity to share it all with you. Please share with any friends, any family members, anybody who you think would be able to relate, would be able to enjoy our talks. And we really appreciate you guys spread the word, because that's all we have. ⁓ That's it. speaker-1: Problems are a sign of being alive. So it was hard for me to put that through my mind. But now problems are something that we grow with and become better. So thank you. speaker-0: We need new candles for here and I'm very upset that I forgot those, but hey, next time. speaker-1: Ciao ciao!