Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Women Talking with Costume Designer, Quita Alfred

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Women Talking with Costume Designer, Quita Alfred · The Art of Costume Podcast

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Sometimes I described those dresses as a cross between an
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acting exercise and a therapist session because the reactions to
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them, ran, the gamut of elation to hate polyester.
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And but it also made each of them examine where They were in
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their lives, not necessarily in their careers but in their lives
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as women. Hello and welcome to the art of
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costume blogcast, I am your host Spencer Williams, and thank you
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so much for joining me for another bonus episode.
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Today's episode is all about the new film women talking for which
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I absolutely loved. I'm so excited, get into it with
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today's guests. Every once in a while you see a
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film that not only exceeds all expectations on screen, but also
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possesses momentous ability to change perspective.
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Inspires learning compassion and understanding women.
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Talking is one of those films and I'll admit I was a little
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hesitant before I went to see this movie, you all know me.
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I'm a big science fiction fantasy, Marvel nerd.
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So film that took place around a group of Mennonite.
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Women wasn't exactly my cup of tea but my mind was changed.
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I walked out of these theaters, so inspired fell in love this
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film and I just couldn't wait to talk.
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Talk to today's guest, but before we do that let me give a
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quick summary do nothing stay and fight or leave.
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These are the choices to women of an isolated religious
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community. Must make as they grapple with
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reconciling a brutal reality with their faith and that is
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women talking. Now, going behind a wardrobe.
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We have director, Sarah, Polley, and costume designer.
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My friend Kita Alfred, she is incredible.
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Some of her Noble work. Foods, romance and style, soul
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food, trapped in a Purple Haze. She was costume supervisor on
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American Gods and she's been assistant costume designer on a
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ton of projects, including the road to avalonia and which Sarah
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Polley starred. And with that, I am so excited
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to introduce my guest costume designer.
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Kita, Alfred welcome, Kita. Thank you.
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Thank you, Spencer. I've been so looking forward to
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meeting you. I fell in love with women
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talking. I have to say I was a little
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hesitant at first. I was like Mennonite costumes at
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that will be interesting fell in love with it.
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It was incredible. So powerful, thank you.
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I'm glad to hear there are they are definitely a specific look.
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That's for sure. Definitely.
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Funnily enough. Some of which has been in Vogue
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and L in the past year or so Sarah and I were laughing about.
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Who did they start this for? Did we start this?
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What's going on here? Take a look credit, that's okay.
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I'm context, of course, but it's out there in the world, so, the
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world is paying attention to this look right now, right?
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Well, let's jump right into it. Perhaps from an outside
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perspective. This might seem like a simple
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film in terms of costume, right? But you and I both know that
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this is actually quite a complex project design costumes for a
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Mennonite Community First. How familiar were you with this
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culture before you began the project?
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Well, I thought it was familiar with it and then I learned that
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that was definitely not the case.
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I grew up in southern Manitoba in Winnipeg which is about four
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hours, north of Fargo to give Americans the context to put it
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in context, right? Yes.
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The continent and it is definitely Mennonite country.
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It's one of the first places that Russian Mennonites came to
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North America. Oh, in the 1870s, they were
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granted. The Mennonites were granted land
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in southern Manitoba because they were renowned as Hardy
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farmers. And hardworking people.
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So they came and were allowed exemption military exemption and
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the ability to have their own schools and not send their
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children to the public school system.
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So the Canadian government agreed to that in order to
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entice them over. They came and even after
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spending five hundred years in Russia and the steps of, you
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know, Ukraine and Siberia. They went.
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What have we done? It's not a stick or literally
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500 miles in any direction and because they are the resourceful
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and hardworking people that they are, they made Manitoba work for
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them. So they're a big part of
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Manitoba culture, and we're a big part of my life to a certain
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extent, a growing up where I grew up in Winnipeg it except
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for the indigenous people who, of course, have been there for a
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tens of thousands of years. Everybody's from somewhere else.
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And, you know, there's not a history of Thousand Years of one
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culture being there again, besides the indigenous culture.
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So, all of us that came from elsewhere and many different
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cultures, all knew about each other and and Manitoba is a
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place where people's individual cultures are still celebrated.
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We're not, I mean, we have Blended of course, I'm a, I'm an
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example of that, but each individual culture is still
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celebrated And so, I was quite, I thought I was familiar with
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Mennonite culture in the foods language Cloud, each language
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low, German just in, you know, the industriousness of the
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Mennonite culture for Gala tea and practicality but I really
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did not know about their history and their very specific
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histories the their the importance of genealogy, to
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their culture. And through the help of to
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consult cultural Consultants one first in southern Manitoba in
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Winkler Manitoba. And then she put me on to
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another dear friend of hers and subcells Western Ontario.
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I was led into the culture in a way that I would never have been
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able to had. I just gone about this as a
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research project, right? And so through the kindness and
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generosity of these two women and Then the women and men the
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the community that they introduced me to, I was able to
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do an amazing amount of research that I wouldn't have been had
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access to otherwise write and to learn about manufacturing
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techniques and the cultural reasons behind Plain dress that
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I would never have had access to that.
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So so it's through their generosity that I was able to To
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do this work to find the vendors.
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I needed to find the manufacturers.
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I needed that over and above are very hardworking.
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Sewing room, you know, our film sewing room and I will be
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forever indebted to them. And so out because of that
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kindness that was afforded me. It was really important to me
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and still is that the costumes be as accurate as possible?
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And they are, they are accurate. They are open.
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Ethic they are authentic. In fact, some of them on some of
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the background are real Mennonite dresses bought from
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real men and women either at yard sales or through contacts
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or Etc. That's incredible.
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Yeah. And we use those in fitting the
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actors, the our principal actors before we built for them and
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designed their costumes with reference to the, to the real
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thing. So, the actors even had a chance
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to wear Real garments from people in the real Community to
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get a sense of of what they could use for their characters
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from the feeling of the real, the real thing.
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Well, yeah, it's so interesting. So funny, how you say you kind
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of came in with one perspective but evolved as you start working
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on this project because that's how I felt as an audience member
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to going into this film with one idea of like, everyone's me
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wearing just plain white dresses with little bonnets.
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Yeah, not at all. All what it's film.
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Well, everybody who doesn't know much about men and iCal culture
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likes to talk about bonnets, right?
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You know why that is kind of the word that people know.
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And they associate with Little House on the Prairie, I think,
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but our ladies don't wear bonnets right.
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Some, some Mennonite cultures do Swiss Mennonites do, but our
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women are Russian Mennonite, they're based on Russian
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Mennonite culture, which is slightly different, and Yeah,
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I'm glad. I'm glad you got a new
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appreciation. It's because seeing women where
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I grew up seeing women dressed the way, the women in our film
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are. Although they're not quite as
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conservative as the community in our film.
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It's Perfectly Normal to see a woman or a group of women, get
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out of a minivan in a grocery store parking lot, dressed the
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way, the women in our film are right.
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That was, that's normal to me. What I did know, was the history
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behind all of it and the reasons and the The faith-based reasons
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behind Plain dress. Interesting and that's actually
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why I want to move into is the significance of the plain dress.
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I am going to know a little bit about it, but at just hearing
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you talk about the research behind this, I find it endlessly
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fascinating. The word is playing the
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psychology behind this garment is playing with the lack of
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buttons is a but it's also not to And I think it's actually
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quite sophisticated away. These garments are constructed
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so I'd love to hear your thoughts behind it.
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Thank you for staying so I guess you've had a look at that up
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close at how they are constructed because that was a
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that was definitely something that I did not know and our
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Janice Skinner our cutter and our whole team of Sowers had to
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wrap our heads around that and I actually had a mock-up made by
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Qatar in Winnipeg. That was Built completely
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differently from the way these are, but eventually we got some
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real ones. And we went oh, that makes way
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more sense. But yes, as you said, plane is
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in the name and plain dress refers to not simply a dress
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that is playing without adornment.
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But to a way of dressing, a way of dressing that adheres to
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modesty. You know, tenants are ideas of
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modesty of the lack of Pride of the lack of Contagious onto
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ostentation ostentatious - in order to remind the wearer and
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this applies to the men, as well to remind them where of their
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Devotion to their faith and their place in the universe and
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to negate pridefulness snow Enos competition.
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You know how you know kids, imagine kids in junior high.
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I know everybody's got to have the new pair of jeans the new
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pair runners. That is in some ways you could
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relate it to a type of uniform but not for the same reasons
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that somebody wears a school uniform uniform.
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For example, it's to sort of take all that preoccupation with
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the self out of the picture and focus on in this case on faith.
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Interesting I also think a lot about like restriction when I
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think of the plain dress and ways To a certain extent.
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Yes, and I have talked about in other conversations, about the
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Restriction, that these dresses give and I'm realizing more and
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more and I realized once I put one of them on that.
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So I mean there were restrictions for me as a
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designer certainly because they're very narrow road
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parameters in with in which I could work, you can add jewelry,
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can add lace. You can add a petticoat you Add
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4 inch heels, right? But restriction.
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Yes in that, for example, when I first started researching, and
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although I'd seen these dresses for 50, something years in my
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life, at this point, I didn't understand how a woman with 10
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children who works on a farm for, you know, 20 hours a day
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close to has a lot of children, has a lot of Abilities.
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A lot of hosts housework why they would want to wear a long
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sleeve polyester? All of us contemporary modern.
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Secular people balk at the polyester, like what happened, a
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couple of the actors did too, but we won't go into that why
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this seemingly impractical garment and then I put one on
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and my entire view changed because you could move your
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protected from the elements. The long-sleeve seem ridiculous
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in, for example, in Bolivia, where the real events for about
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which our story are written, are took place you're protected from
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the Sun, you're protected from dust, you're protected from the
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work that you're doing in a hay loft in a farm with a cow
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anywhere, where you couldn't move because of the pleats, And
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you put that dress into whether it's a bucket to hand wash it or
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into a mangle washing machine. And it comes out exactly the way
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it went in the once, I figured that out and one side washed a
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few and just pulled them up when I get it.
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Now, I didn't think of it, like, that makes sense.
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I mean, this whole part of this, a big part of this film is the
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women protecting each other in a protecting each other with their
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clothing as well. Well, yeah, yeah.
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And it's some, yes, it in certain respects especially
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again, as modern up a bit. And I'm speaking subjectively
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here as a modern secular Feminist woman.
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I just thought what is why, why would the polyester, why with
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the dresses? Why would the everything?
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And then, of course, through my research realized that there are
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500 years of of the Mennonites movements through Europe,
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distilled down into these dresses, their Beginnings in the
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Netherlands, the puff sleeves, and the pleated, skirts, and the
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aprons moving into, Was first Prussia and now Poland and sort
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of the Baltic. The northern northern Europe
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area, European countries, the florals, the embroidery on the
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scars we don't see much of that in our film, right?
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The floral prints come from being exposed to those Northern
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countries, then they moved into Russia and Ukraine which we know
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anybody's familiar with Ukrainian dress in particular.
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It's just a live with flowers and pattern and layers of Of
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color. They spent hundreds of years
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there and then down in, even into Southern parts of Europe.
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Southern parts of Eastern Europe where the were similar
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Traditions exist of headwraps colorful Fabrics Fringe again,
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the puff sleeves, the pleated skirts, the apron for
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practicality reasons. Practical reasons, so these
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moderate. What we at first glance think,
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is a Fairly Dow d polyester, dress is actually a
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representation of hundreds of years, of tradition and taking
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elements of each of the cultures that they moved through the
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Mennonites before they came to North America.
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And then once they got to North America again, you would think
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of culture as traditional as Russian Mennonites who maintain
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plain dress would want, would also want natural Fabrics that
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perhaps they made. Selves or you know, were more
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breathable etcetera but in fact the polyester also comes out of
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practicality because as the more traditional cultures moved away
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from the more secular versions of their church and of their
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culture. The farther away.
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They went from town, essentially, from from
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civilization. So often the only thing that
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they could get were Fabrics that were available in small
17:23
communities that were near them, that were affordable because
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they really are a part from the, from the general economy in the
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Aries that they are, they contribute to, in many ways
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because they're farmers and Woodworkers and, and
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craftspeople, but in the jungles of Bolivia, or, you know,
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Paraguay on the cows, or Please often the only thing they had
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access to were imported polyesters and again, if you're
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going to throw 15 dresses in a washing machine, a couple times
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a week polyester is your is the answer because it comes out
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exactly the way it went in. WoW.
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Kyra. I love talking to you.
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You have such a wealth of knowledge, sir.
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Giving me like costume historian Vibes right now and I feel like
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I could talk to you forever. My compliments.
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Spencer Thank you, because that's my, that's my jam.
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The research Is My Jam, right? Clearly.
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You really put a lot of thought into this film which, you know,
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some would say looks rather simple but it's clearly not at
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all simple. Yeah, there was there's a lot of
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there was a lot of research that I did and was, was privileged to
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have access to, to be given access to, by the Mennonite
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Community, which I would never have been able to do without
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them and to learn the Reasons behind, I love having my mind
18:53
changed. It's one of the things
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especially as I get older, I love finding out.
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I'm wrong. Right?
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In nice ways. Generally, it's a part of it
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all. Yeah.
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And I love discovering all these, the reasons behind these
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things that I just assumed were very simple.
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And even the practicality of the bodice, you'll see, you can see
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in some of the top left pictures there with them, Ben and Rooney,
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and Claire. Are you can see the snaps on the
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left shoulder and I now have about 530 of these dresses in my
19:28
collection. And every last one of them has
19:32
snaps on the left shoulder like, that and is constructed the
19:35
same. And so, what that does is that
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they sometimes refer to that as a bib, I'm sure there's a
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different word and low German for it that, I don't know, but
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it snaps off. And underneath that is a But a
19:49
snap front blouse essentially. So the, so the top of the bodice
19:55
of the dress is a snap front blouse so that if you're nursing
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one of your 15 children, you can very simply undo the under peace
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and expose a breast to nurse and culturally these Russian,
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especially these very traditional Russian and
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Mennonite women are very shy, is not the right word.
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Modest is a better word. Of exposing any part of the
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body, even amongst women, even amongst their family.
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So nursing would be conducted, for example, simply with as
20:29
little breasts exposed as possible, a blanket over the
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child. And, and I was told not in the
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company of other women, not certainly not in the company of
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your other children, even because of the level of modesty,
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wow. So the design of these dresses
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makes that practical Interesting.
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Do you feel like when I wasn't going to rigidly ask this?
20:54
But it brought up an interesting point, you said that, you know,
20:57
a blob this was relying on the actual Mennonite Community with,
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you know, sourcing love these garments are, you know, research
21:06
to do feel like there was an openness to that.
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My experience of the Mennonite culture has always even before I
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knew any of this and did any of this rep, research has been one
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of of generosity and And kindness.
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And so, my experience researching was a reinforcement
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of that, people were happy to share with me.
21:30
Because not even because they knew I needed to make a fancy
21:36
movie because they knew I had a need because I had a question
21:40
that needed answered answering and they were generous as, in my
21:45
experience they always are with help with helping.
21:48
They have a A tradition of service to others in their
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community. And curious thing about this
21:57
film is that many of the women who live this way, we'll never
22:01
see this film interesting. Yeah, never see this movie, they
22:05
were very curious as to why I would be interest as something.
22:09
Somebody who was not off, the culture would be interested in
22:13
their culture and be interested in their way of of making
22:17
things. Even I even had Women building
22:22
overalls in the traditional way for me and, and in that process,
22:27
one would tell me, well, this pocket is here, is because this
22:30
is where a man would keep his packet of cigarettes.
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This is where he'd keep his his pocket watch, and this is where
22:37
he'd keep it, you know, or his little teen of tobacco.
22:39
So, all of those little details were shared with me in the
22:43
building of this stuff, but yet people were curious, I think
22:48
because some of them who are not as modern as some of the people
22:53
that helped me so probably seeing a movie would not even
22:57
concern them. Hmm.
22:59
So they kind of thought, why is this crazy Brown lady asking
23:02
about are our costumes? You know, why, why does she want
23:05
so much fabric? Why does she, why is she asking
23:08
how these dresses are made? And I would explain I'm a
23:11
costume designer. I, I would kind of give the
23:15
basics that I He many cultures I study many different types of
23:21
dress. I'm interested in collecting
23:24
this particular type of dress because it's representative of
23:28
your culture and it's unusual for modern people to, you know,
23:33
they don't often think about this kind of thing.
23:36
So I think in some ways they were glad that I was interested,
23:40
but in many cases probably will never see the result right yet.
23:44
We're generous and more than generous Us with their time,
23:50
with their knowledge, with their help.
23:52
To me, it sounds like it's more about them.
23:54
Wanting to tell their story and they trusted you in a way of
23:58
telling their story. It's not about like you said,
24:00
it's not about them seeing the film or not.
24:02
It's about sharing their history, their knowledge, their
24:05
story with you to portray an accurate accurate, you know,
24:09
sent equate, which I think it's quite beautiful.
24:11
I hope you're right. Thank you, Spencer.
24:13
Yeah. Then they like, I said, we're
24:15
kind of curious why I was interested and I I said, well,
24:18
because it's interesting. Your culture is interesting to
24:21
other people who don't know about it.
24:24
So, moving back to the textiles in the colors.
24:27
I was struck by the use of textiles and colors in this
24:30
film, as they were clearly significant to the overall story
24:32
telling the colors to me, said a lot about the characters who
24:36
they are, where they are going, is that fair to say?
24:40
Yes, absolutely. And thank you for noticing that
24:44
because we had so few details to work.
24:47
With like I said, we couldn't add a petticoat or a coat or,
24:50
you know, Cape or lace. We had to work within very
24:55
narrow parameters and try subtly and almost subliminally to
25:01
differentiate characters. So, I broke the families into
25:05
three groups, the three main families in the Loft, the reason
25:09
women who are Agata Salome Ona and nature and then The
25:18
friesians who are Greta mail and Marie, K and Out.
25:23
J the youngest and then Scarface Jan's and her family and
25:28
instinctively, just this is just my, was my subjective, take on
25:32
it. And in order for me to keep them
25:35
all straight because because there are so many characters and
25:37
families, I divided them into moods for me, not sort of
25:44
specifically assigned color Ways.
25:48
But I did it more instinctively, the freezes for example, to me
25:53
and against objectively. And then I spoke with Sarah and
25:55
eventually the actors about this.
25:56
But they were more forthright in their reactions, they were more
26:00
intellectual in their reactions. So I was drawn towards pure
26:04
colors for them, the purple's the strong Blues repetitive
26:10
regular patterns with forward movement in my mind even though
26:15
they don't specifically have four, Just as a concept they
26:20
were more intellectually driven. The lowens with Greta Mary Kay
26:26
and male I was drawn to more natural colors greens and Browns
26:30
and rusts and bigger open up. More open, patterns less
26:35
constricted shapes in the patterns and and something
26:40
murkier and less defined because of in Maya.
26:47
Reputation of their characters. There was more going on under
26:50
the surface with them that was more emotionally motivated.
26:57
So we've got in Instinct I call it with them and intellect with
27:01
the other and neither is more important than the other.
27:04
They are just different reactions to the same problem,
27:09
different ways of dealing with the similar circumstances and
27:13
then the Jan's family which is Francis has character and her
27:16
daughters and And granddaughter it because they were the most
27:21
traditionally wealth, Scarface particular.
27:25
Traditionally stuck in the past and in the old ways and
27:30
interests and immovable, you can see me but the audience won't be
27:33
able to see me making this clenching motion with my fist.
27:37
I always do that when I talk about them because to me, they
27:40
represented immovability, so rust and dried blood and things
27:46
from years ago, that That were impossible to move and change.
27:51
And refresh is what I had in mind for them smaller patterns
27:56
that made them recede and be less noticed, the dark dark for
28:03
for Franz character Scarface. I didn't want to put everybody
28:07
in Black even though the older woman would traditionally could
28:11
traditionally be in plain black as well.
28:14
That makes for a very boring movie, that's already be
28:16
saturated. So, it looks like you.
28:18
And I do enjoy the black though. So it's fashionable.
28:25
It's kind of boring on screen sometimes.
28:27
So and I also had one Bender in southern Manitoba when I was
28:32
buying a bunch of fabrics from her.
28:34
I would he unsolicited. Thankfully said to me, I had my
28:40
hand on something and she said something like, do you have
28:43
older women and younger women? I said all kinds but I'm looking
28:45
now for the older room said oh Oh my mother would wear this one
28:49
here. Not that one.
28:50
My mother would wear something like this and she was at least
28:53
my age so her mother was and she still wore plain dress, but much
28:58
more relaxed. Like she had a cell phone.
29:00
She wore a watch, all kinds of right.
29:02
Much more modern but still elements of plain dress.
29:06
And so her mother was would have been very traditional probably
29:10
like the women in our film. And so she guided me just
29:14
culturally to Prince That worst age specific or more
29:21
age-appropriate is a better way to say it mail.
29:24
You'll notice is probably the brightest Fabric in our, in our
29:29
Ensemble. And that piece of fabric is the
29:31
only one that the dresses are made of that isn't polyester?
29:36
Hmm, that's what I found that. I just fell in love with and I
29:39
had to have it. And then Sarah fell in love with
29:41
it and we need it in the movie. Well that's what and because it
29:45
was so exuberant. We thought mail was the was the
29:48
girl for that. But ironically, it was the
29:52
hardest dress to keep track of and to take care of because it
29:56
moved, whereas the polyester just did what you told it and
30:00
the rayon stretched. So it took Extra Care.
30:03
So it that was a real life example, of why the women use
30:09
the Fabrics that they do. We saw that like, don't be a
30:13
fool. Why would you use cotton?
30:14
You gotta press cotton. I don't have time to press. 15
30:18
dresses. Why would you do that?
30:20
So it was a very practical lesson for us in the historical
30:24
background of and not so historical.
30:26
The modern usage of what is seemingly historical, right?
30:31
I love that. It's so cool that was definitely
30:35
one of my favorite parts of the movie was just seeing all these
30:37
colors and textiles work together.
30:39
I noticed I was in the theater and I love.
30:41
Kita. Really did it up here.
30:45
Of course, it was so nice to find We see all the women
30:48
together in The Hayloft because, you know, you can talk all you
30:50
like and do fittings. And, and because it was covid,
30:53
we could rarely get everybody together in a room, right?
30:55
So I would have a Swatch is everywhere but until I actually
30:59
saw them in their my shoulders just kind of came down about 4
31:03
inches, right? That could have went way wrong.
31:06
Yes. Exactly.
31:08
Crazy idea actually worked. I guess.
31:10
All right, have to let go and let my subconscious do things
31:15
sometimes and thankfully it all came.
31:17
Together, this film was equally as powerful as it was personal
31:22
in order to make this film work. I imagine you had to work very
31:25
closely with the cast. I would love to hear about your
31:28
collaboration, with Incredible, cast, which includes Claire Foy,
31:32
Rooney? Mara Jesse, Buckley, Judith,
31:34
Ivey and Frances McDormand, incredible cast.
31:38
It is an incredible cast and I among so many things, everything
31:43
about this film was special for me.
31:47
Me and unlike any other professional experience mainly
31:53
because of the support from Sarah and from The Producers,
31:57
the collaboration with the cast which is also almost
32:01
unprecedented for me as a designer and to have the luxury
32:06
of time to research. And the time to contact people,
32:12
even though it was by Zoom for the, you know, there was of
32:14
course that crunch of the last week.
32:17
Camera where everybody was finally out of quarantine and
32:20
but sometimes in rehearsals so I didn't even have actors to
32:24
myself well for a very long time but what we did have was time on
32:29
zoom and excuse me, I had meetings with each of the actors
32:36
been included to talk about what we could do, as the costume
32:41
Department to help them, portray what they wanted to about their
32:46
characters. And Again because the parameters
32:49
were so narrow, it's not like one could always wear her collar
32:54
popped or I mean I'm aging myself, but you know what I
32:56
mean. Like there weren't those kind of
32:58
flourishes that we could do. One wasn't always in both have
33:01
fun, but don't get crazy with it, exactly.
33:05
Yeah. So we had literally, okay, what
33:08
color do you want? How many plates do you know to
33:11
screen extent and there was all kinds of, you know, more subtle
33:15
work that went into it but I was lucky.
33:17
To have really interesting conversation and quite deep
33:21
conversations with the actors because I had done so much
33:26
research and been given access to so much important information
33:30
about men and I culture. Sometimes I was the one that was
33:34
giving them cultural information as well.
33:37
So that was that was a great exchange that I was lucky to
33:41
have with them and then also we did things like talk about.
33:46
What does it, what? Does your body look like, after
33:48
you've had 15 children? I was use 15.
33:51
It's the number. I can remember, but the
33:53
Mennonites have big families and to attend 10 kids is kind of an
33:58
average family size in these really conservative communities.
34:05
So what, how do you hold yourself?
34:07
How do you walk? How do you like it?
34:10
Maybe you've had 18 babies, but 15 of them are alive.
34:13
What does that do to your body? What does it do to your posture?
34:16
What does it do to your Asks for example, maybe your nursing five
34:20
kids under six, you know do you need some kind of restriction
34:25
under your garment to as an actor?
34:27
As a reminder that one part of your body is in pain or has been
34:33
or especially after these horriffic attack, sexual
34:37
assaults what is going on under those pleaded dresses, right,
34:42
really. So, we did a body augmentation,
34:46
we did a certain amount of Of restriction.
34:48
We added we subtracted none of which you'll see on camera as a
34:56
pretty dress or a magnificent pair of shoes.
35:00
But our work. I am hoping to help the actors
35:07
find where they needed to go in to a certain extent, with the
35:14
with characters, it added an element, I certainly won't Be so
35:17
bold as to say it, you know, informed every part of their
35:21
work. But we did what we could to help
35:24
them add layers to to their work.
35:28
And sometimes I described those dresses as a cross between an
35:32
acting exercise, and a therapist session.
35:36
Because the reactions to them, when we tried the authentic ones
35:39
in fittings ran, the gamut of elation to hate polyester.
35:47
And and but it also made each of them examine where they were in
35:51
their lives, right? And not necessarily in their
35:53
careers, but in their lives as women.
35:57
So that part was very revealing and very rewarding to see.
36:01
And each of them use those reactions in their character,
36:05
they put the either the Rage or the sense of Freedom into their
36:10
characters that was rewarding for me, that's incredible.
36:14
This is why we all love costume designing.
36:16
I mean, you know, sometimes Constantly knows when it's time
36:19
to take a step back and really lent it authenticity and help
36:23
these actors. Actresses, really feel them
36:26
become the character. And I think this film, what
36:29
you've done your entire crew really executed that so
36:33
masterfully. I will say thank you very much,
36:36
Spencer. I had the best team.
36:38
I had an amazing Office Team and also a sewing team several and
36:43
asset team. This are set team has known
36:46
Sarah as long as I have and worked with her on the road to
36:49
Avonlea when she was child. Hey, well, that's actually
36:52
leading me to my next question. Was that collaboration with the
36:55
director Sarah Polley? Can't tell me a little bit about
36:58
that collaboration. It was fantastic.
37:01
That's good. That's it.
37:06
Sarah. I've known Sarah since she was
37:07
young because I was the assistant costume designer on
37:10
the road to Avonlea TV series, which of which she was a star
37:15
and ever since. I knew her, then she's always in
37:20
my mind and still is, of course, this bright spark as a child,
37:24
she was its kind of simplistic to say, wise Beyond her years,
37:28
but she was always smart as a whip for one thing always, was
37:34
poised matures a little simplistic as well, she has an
37:39
amazing mind and although I didn't see her for 30 years
37:43
after that experience and between not experienced in this,
37:46
I watched At her blossom into an amazing actor, thoughtful
37:51
feminist and activist a director, an artist and was not
37:57
in the little in the least bit surprised because I knew her as
38:01
a child to have the potential to be those things.
38:04
She was only a couple of those things as a child and the fact
38:07
that all these other things blossomed out of here is, is in
38:11
no way. Surprising she is so supportive.
38:16
She's confident enough. In herself and in her work to
38:19
allow collaboration, which is a very, very rare thing in
38:26
unfortunately, in the film industry to work with people who
38:31
are confident enough to ask others opinions and consider
38:36
them and use them if they fit and confidently and discreetly
38:43
say, no thank you. We're going to try something
38:45
else. So it was an amazing.
38:47
Amazing collaboration. She is well spoken.
38:51
She's an excellent Communicator. She is supportive.
38:55
Our producers, were amazingly supportive to Linda chabela are
38:59
Toronto, producer. DD Gardner and Francis is one of
39:03
our producers as well. I've never worked in a situation
39:07
where I've had so much support and respect.
39:11
Well, respect is the biggest word that comes out of those
39:14
relationships. It was an amazing.
39:17
Raising way to work. It was a wonderful experience
39:21
for many professionally and personally and it's a really
39:25
good way to make films because people were happy and got to see
39:30
their kids and got to maintain their family life and didn't
39:33
have to be held hostage to some, but some crazy, our Tours
39:37
schedule, or whims, which is often the case, it was
39:42
collaborative. It was supportive.
39:46
It was Rewarding, and it was a lot of fun.
39:50
Well, that's I'm so happy for you.
39:52
And I just met you today, but like this.
39:55
So deserving of this. I'm so glad we had such a great
39:58
experience especially during such a tumultuous time, you
40:02
know, this was filmed during covid.
40:04
So, none of this was easy by a long shot.
40:07
I wanted to wrap this up, just finally overall.
40:11
What do you hope audiences take away from his film the film and
40:15
the costumes? Well, you Said the word hope
40:19
although it is difficult material to deal with the sexual
40:27
assault domestic violence. All of that are very and again I
40:30
would also like to stress Spencer.
40:32
This is not about this is not a story about something that
40:35
happens to Mennonite people in a man in my community sexual
40:39
violence and the pervasiveness of domestic violence is in every
40:43
culture. Our film just happens to take
40:46
place. In this community, it is a
40:49
universal Scourge on our on human beings.
40:54
Unfortunately, and I hope and I hope and I think Sarah would
40:59
agree with me in this. That we hope that this film
41:05
reminds people that people can change lives can change, bravery
41:11
is possible, and that there is hope even in the most
41:15
challenging situations. So hope is what I would like to,
41:20
like people to take away from this, even in the even in the
41:24
costumes, I told you about how my mind was changed after
41:28
putting on one of those dresses and the idea of letting go of
41:33
judgment. Hmm.
41:34
And and of subjective opinions, and of course I had many
41:38
subjective opinions about the culture and the look that had
41:43
about plain dress going into this and I had my mind changed
41:46
and I Of when that happens the older I get the more I like it.
41:50
So hope is what I hope that viewers take away from this.
41:55
Oh, that's beautiful. And I just have say, you know, I
41:57
didn't actually put the dress on but figuratively.
42:00
You know, I was really there and I really took in a whole new
42:03
appreciation for understanding, you know, this culture and just
42:07
understanding, you know, never stop learning and the research
42:10
that goes into a lot of these things.
42:12
Because not everything is as it seems as we've talked about so
42:16
you're exactly right. Yeah, that's that's a really
42:19
great way of putting it. Learning, never stop learning
42:21
and challenging your ideas about things.
42:25
Well, if this podcast happens to come out before the 17th, I
42:29
don't think it will, but I'll say it just in case.
42:33
I think everyone should head over to the fit a museum and
42:35
check out the free exhibition currently going on.
42:38
It's a partnership between MGM United Artists releasing at the
42:42
fit of Museum that features actually costumes from two
42:45
different films. One of them is Still creating a
42:48
world of join resistance, designed by Marcy Rogers.
42:51
She's brilliant. And then, of course, women
42:53
talking and active female imagination.
42:56
Showcasing. Costumes props from women
42:59
talking and it is such a great exhibition.
43:03
So, go check that out, is free. Thank you so much Kela for
43:07
joining me. I really love this conversation.
43:10
I feel like I've learned so much and inspired to keep learning
43:15
actually, and This is just such a beautiful film.
43:19
I really enjoyed this, and I really enjoyed meeting you.
43:22
Thank you. Same here, I enjoyed meeting you
43:24
and speaking with you Spencer, thank you so much and if you
43:27
want to dress, I can hook you up.
43:28
I have to thank you and all your friends up.
43:32
Where are you? You got 500 or so I'll hit you
43:35
up. But yeah, thank you so much for
43:37
taking the time and asking such thoughtful questions.
43:40
I really enjoyed it here out of costume blogcast.
43:47
It is hosted and produced by Elizabeth Joy, glass, and
43:51
Spencer Williams. Our audio engineering and
43:54
editing is done by Dan White. Follow us on Instagram, at the
43:59
art of costume pod or visit the art of costume blogcast.com.
44:03
For all blogcast updates, if you want to support the show, go to
44:08
the art of costume.com / Cod store, or you can head over to
44:13
patreon.com/scishow, Art of cost.
44:17
In for some bonus content, for more costume reviews deep, Dives
44:22
and interviews, head over to the art of costume.com a Blog
44:26
dedicated to highlighting the best and costume design.
44:41
Take some water myself. Yeah I'm getting all fancy.
44:44
Now I'm on the ginger ale. The crystals like is that
44:47
champagne or ginger ale? Either way I'm jealous.
44:51
I am very fast. That's true.
44:57
But I'd keep it PG. Hey, I got it.