Latest / Thinking Class / #078 - Adam Williams - Why Would A British Zoomer Go Into Politics?

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#078 - Adam Williams - Why Would A British Zoomer Go Into Politics? · Thinking Class

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hello, classmates, and welcome to Thinking Class.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm John Gillam, and today I'm speaking with Adam Williams.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: Adam is the leader of the youth wing of the Social Democratic Party, the SDP in the United Kingdom.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: In this conversation, Adam and I think out loud about what motivated his journey into politics as a member of Generation Z, why decline is all he's ever known, and why he wants to change this in Britain, his experiences knocking on doors in local elections as he sought votes, the challenges of political branding for the SDP, how the public know very little about the scale of the issues facing the country, and how they respond when he tells them the future of the SDP's political strategy in the United Kingdom and what happens if the party does not achieve electoral success in the coming two elections, what Labour's recent shift towards more conservative immigration rhetoric might mean, the implications of Britain's policy to allow immigrants from Commonwealth countries to vote in elections, the potential for the Lib Dems to appeal to Middle England, why the lack of depth in politics has led to economically focused and inhumane policies, and contributed to the creation of Britain's biggest issues, why politicians need to connect heritage and history to current political discourse, and the importance of engaging younger generations in the political process and much, much more.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: As you'll hear, Adam is articulate, he's passionate, he's patriotic without being jingoistic, and he's full of hope, despite enduring, as he says, only decline since he was born in 1997.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: You should definitely check him out, and I hope you enjoy the episodes and the conversation as much as I did.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: As ever, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow the show on YouTube, your podcast platform of choice and Substack, where paid subscribers can get the opportunity to contribute questions to a special QA to guests of the show that only they will get access to.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Let's grow Thinking Class together.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show, classmates.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Thinking Class.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, John.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Adam, it's my pleasure.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: We made each other's acquaintance at an event a few weeks ago, and that's when I learned of you as the leader of the Social Democratic Party's youth wing.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Yes D.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, indeed.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: So let's let's begin with that.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're probably at least a decade my my junior.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh uh, you are uh impressive in how you uh articulate yourself, and indeed you're you seem to be pretty engaged with the concept of building a political party and build building uh a reputation on the ground for someone who's interested in constituent affairs.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: So let's begin with motivations, Adam.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: What motivated you as someone who's part of Gen Z to get into politics and lead a youth branch?
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um, yeah, Gen Z, I'm 1997, so yeah, I'm the first who can claim that title.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I've been involved in politics since about 2017.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, I was a member of the Conservative Party for a while, um, purely because I didn't know the fact that they're actually a liberal party.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh I joined after Theresa May diabolically lost.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, she didn't lose, but you know, she cut their majority from the Cameron years in 2017.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: So I joined and was like, oh, she's making a mess of this, I'll get involved.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: And then I quickly realized that I don't belong in the co the Tory party.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: Um and then fast forwarded to uh 2022, and I officially cancelled my membership because they make it incredibly hard to cancel your membership.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: So there's no like just cancel button, you have to write to your MP and write to your brand.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, it was just a nightmare, so I was just like, I can't be bothered.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: It was costing me peanuts.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: So but then I eventually I read I got I got out of the Tory party um and was like, well, I don't know where I'm gonna go now.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: Um and then I found the STP literally through Wikipedia, like just on a Wikipedia deep dive as I do, um, and joined them up in May last year, so no, April last year.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, about a year and a month.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, but in terms of motivation, so I'm I tried to join the military when I left university.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna join the RAF as an officer, and I got rejected for eczema of all things.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, Capita, that's that's a that's a whole over can of worms.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh Henry Bolton would love that one.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Um but I've always kind of had that sense of duty and like care towards my country.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, I like living here, I love being English, I love being British and everything that comes with it.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I'm a constitutional monarchist, I'm a strong believer in democracy and what we've got.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Um I just wanted to make a difference and I wanted to make things better because from 1997 onwards, I think it's safe to say that Britain's been in a state of decline, if not earlier.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, I've never known Britain in its heyday.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: So at that bit in the 90s, you know, you're talking like the Facture Major, the Fapture major sort of early Belair years, where everyone was like, ah, things are great, everyone had loads of money and stuff was going well that we always hear about.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: And I never experienced that.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, I uh I've only known Britain to be a bit of a mess, to see things going downhill.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've lived near Birmingham for most of my life, and Birmingham as a city is is quite like the epitome of British decline, massive industrial town that just got gutted.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: There's nothing there anymore except giant rats and waste, and you know.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Um so that's kind of what motivated me really was that I I love this country.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, I believe we can be a better place to live and for our children to inherit as well.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, Scruton says, Yeah, I can't remember the exact quote, but he basically says something along the lines of, you know, we're not we're like the inheritors of a thing, but we're also the custodians and like for future generations.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember it.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Stewards.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: That's the one.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're stewards.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: So whatever whatever it is that we receive, it is not ours to give away.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: It's not ours to to choose to uh fritter away or use even for our own pleasures, but rather to maintain and try to, I think he he he tries to make the point of um uh increase its fruitfulness for future generations so we're not depleting it, it's not ours to to give away.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that that that's pretty much like my political philosophy.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's very dutiful, it's very future-oriented long-term plan rather than short-term gain for profit, you know.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I've always been massively opposed to unfettered capitalism and but also the opposite end of you know st state socialism and communism.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: So you kind of sit in a weird bit with British politics because there's not really a party that's actually like Tory, like actual Toryism, like actual conservatism, not the wishy-washy thatcherism and social liberalism, it's the actual conservative belief, which is you know, faith, flag, and family, right?
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And um so hence why I found the STP because I think that the STP is the best way to unify the sort of workers' rights and labour um rights that we have with the sort of British heritage that we've got, and make it marry it into a really nice combination.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: Um and that's what I think the SCP is, and that's why I'm doing it.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: So it sounds to me like you would have been more at home in the Conservative Party if it was more like the Benjamin Disraeli Party of the 19th century, One Nations Toryism, right?
8:01
SPEAKER_00: That idea that yes, there are naturally people who are going to be in charge, there are going to be an elite class, but that they have a responsibility to everyone else to make sure that they are uh recognized, heard, looked after, appreciate there wasn't a universal franchise at the time, but ultimately this is an idea of making sure that the elites were close to the people and and and recognizing that the industrial revolution that had been going on for the hundred odd years had really upheded people's lives in a certain way, and there was this this duty back to people to recognise that to make sure that they they uh their existence was was not a miserable one.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I I I I understand that.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Well to to think about the STP as the the the party you think that might be the place for for people to unify around and to deliver that kind of uh um a country.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: We'll come to that a little bit later.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's talk a little bit about you and your recent drive to become a councillor in the recent by-elections that took place here um in the United Kingdom.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Specifically, you were doing this down this the southeast.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Um what were the typical responses of constituents when you were knocking on their door?
9:21
SPEAKER_00: What were they telling you about the state of their lives or the state of the nation or just the area?
9:27
SPEAKER_02: So, my area, I was standing in Buckinghamshire.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: I uh had moved to High Wickham and the council elections were there, so I decided to stand.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: Um my ward's an interesting ward.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh the I mean Wickham is weird in general because there's more independence than there are party meant party politics.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so it's a very interesting sort of dynamic.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: But my wards, I I didn't have immigration raised at all on my ward.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, all the conversations, and we leafleted my entire ward, by the way.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: So it's not like we only did like a little bit, we did the whole ward.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I never had immigration raised, which was really interesting.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: Um what I did have raised, and people are gonna laugh at this, they always laugh at this, but it's potholes, there's no police presence, crime's rising, um, you know, where's our council tax going?
10:21
SPEAKER_02: The water bills going up because we've got Thames Water, so of course it is.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, that sort of thing.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had the Gaza question once, um, but just once, just once.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, although I did get a bit of a I did appear in a Palestine Solidarity campaign video with my name in red because I didn't answer their email.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, so there was like that sort of dynamic, but it wasn't really that present.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so that was something that was coordinated from within the constituency you were flyering, and so someone had effectively been doing research on the candidates and producing content to say where they stood on an issue, or was it specifically the Gaza issue?
11:02
SPEAKER_02: It was specific, well, yeah, it was basically like, do you support Buckinghamshire Council's like divestment from companies that break international law, basic basically Israeli stuff?
11:11
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, I don't have a I'm a neutral party, like the SDP is a neutral pro-Britain foreign policy.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: So I always just said to the guy, look, mate, is Benjamin Nehayaniu, I can't pronounce his surname, is never going to listen to what Adam from a potential councillor in Buckinghamshire, you know, Israel's gonna do what Israel's got to do.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: I can't affect that.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: What I can affect is whether or not your car, if your car gets broken into, if the police respond or if your potholes get filled in.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Right, you know, and and to be honest, he respected that because I said to him, look, no one's on my side, I'm not on anyone's side.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Let's just focus on what we can actually fix.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: It's not the Israel-Gaza conflict, it's not gonna get fixed in Wickham.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, and he respected that and then just was like, Yeah, so my car got nixed.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, there you go.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was pretty much what it is.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: It was very local, it was very, you know, basic, down to the earth stuff, like crimes rising, we're worried about the police aren't doing anything, the council's not filling in the potholes, um, you know, housing's going through the roof, that sort of thing.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: That that's that's really what it was.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, in terms of the STP, um, we we were everyone was really polite to us.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: We didn't really get any stick.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: We got I had people actually be like, there was there was me walking down one way, and then there's a libdem guy walking down the other way.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: And my colleague had canvassed a group of men fixing a car, and they looked at my leaflet and they're like, Oh yeah, I like this.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: The dem guy walks up to them and they they told him to bugger off basically.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: And then I was stood opposite, just leafleting a house.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: I turned around and saw them like chatting to him, and I was like, Yeah, well done, guys, like a bit cheeky.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: And he was like, he was like, Who are you?
12:44
SPEAKER_02: I was like, he was like, You Labour?
12:45
SPEAKER_02: I was like, No, no, no, no, I'm the STP.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: And he looked at the leaflet and was like, Yeah, I like the look of you, I'll vote for you.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, so we got a bit of that.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, and we got I mean, I got 34 votes, which isn't massive, but it's still 34 more than the STP ever had in that area ever before because we've never been there.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Um but everyone was fairly polite or at least curious.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: So that was quite nice.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: I got a lot of hate online though.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
13:11
SPEAKER_00: From reform from reform.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, though this is this is starting to break out into the open a bit, isn't it, from my understanding, insofar as there were before reform made it into parliament, there were there were various agreements between SDP and reform to not stand in certain seats, a bit of an electoral pact to make sure that candidates would would make it through and knock out the Tories or the Labour in whichever constituency.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: And since the election, and as we now see, they are topping polls and according to some commentators, headed toward parliament unless they put their foot in it, is that they're they go in their own way, but uh from what I understand, they are taking quite a few of uh just to put it lightly, the SDP's policies and uh using them probably as quite empty slogans uh without having done the work behind.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So so you're saying that you got grief online from people in reform that would have otherwise been friendly to you perhaps in the past?
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I mean I got 500 comments on my my one post, which was just basically all like vote reform, not a socialist, uh, you look like a communist, all of this sort of stuff.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like guys, if you actually knew what we stood for, I tried arguing it a little bit, but then I just gave up because they're just not going to listen to you.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Um thinking thinking about that, because so for for you and I, when we're talking about how the this the Conservative Party that you would have potentially joined or or stuck around for if it was that one nation Toryism which has overlap, it's not exactly the same as the Social Democratic Party is.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Social democracy, I think, will always get labelled or put in the same camp as some kind of socialism, yeah.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and all of those things that go with it.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: How how do how do you think over time that will change as the brand builds?
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that that is always going to be an issue, or do you think because of the way you guys speak and act and the policies that you make will make it abundantly clear that it's not like a um uh your typical socialist party that you might find on the left in in Germany or France, for example?
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think it is a difficult one because obviously social democracy does have historical connotations of socialism.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just look at Europe and you can see that.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's the British issue is that we're kind of European, but we're not really.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, and a lot of the time when people hear socialism, they think of Corbyn as well.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: So they think of it as this sort of like, you know, anti-Britain, pro-progressive sort of thing.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Because it's it was banned.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I don't know.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you remember 2017 and the few years when Corbyn was leader of Labour, is socialism was thrown around like you know, like, oh, you're a socialist and stuff.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: So I think people don't really have it's difficult for us because we're quite a theoretical and philosophical party, and people just don't have the time for that.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's sort of like, but yeah, you know, if you actually knew what we stood for, then you wouldn't be saying you're a socialist, you'd be like, oh yeah, fair enough.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Like you'd probably agree with us on quite a few things.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Um and it is it is difficult, but I've yet to see anyone suggest a better alternative to the name.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Um I've yet to see anyone suggest better branding, like it's just not come up.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, and and we had this debate because we're like, how do we how do we sell ourselves?
16:42
SPEAKER_02: How do we sell ourselves to people?
16:44
SPEAKER_02: And it's difficult because you want to avoid political buzzwords these days.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: So you could say, oh, we're the party of the traditional left.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: When people think of the traditional left, they're gonna think like proper hardcore Labourites like Corbyn or Michael Foote or something, yeah.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: Or foot, or you know, it or it because like people some people describe us as the Labour Party of old, and I was like, I don't really know if I want to be associated with the Labour Party of old because they didn't do a great job for a while.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, they had a few good ones, like Attlee.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, a few people would probably disagree with me on that.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: I think he was decent, but you know, um, but we can't describe ourselves as like the party of the conservative left because the word conservative is now intrinsically married to free market liberalism, which is why it's not.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: But I'm as political theorists and studyers of it, we know that, but most people won't.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, because people when you say conservative, people think Margaret Fatcher.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, so which is fair enough.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: I completely understand why.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: So it is that it's that difficult like thing of being like, well, how do you explain the social democrats?
17:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, how how are we?
17:52
SPEAKER_02: How do you sell the SDP?
17:54
SPEAKER_02: And I think what we talked about was that we're the SDP, we're not the Social Democratic Party, but the SDP.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: And that's what you sell.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: You sell with the SDP.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Because then it's like, oh, so what's the SDP?
18:05
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, we believe in things like nationalising the water, the rail, energy, that sort of thing, you know, but we also believe in British, um, you know, British history, not demonizing ourselves, looking at Britain with an actual positive outlook, being pro-Briton, wanting British workers to have jobs and good industries, and you know, just being having a good place to live and enjoying the country that we live in without degrading ourselves, like so many of our political class currently want to do.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Um and that's kind of the response I was saying to them was like, they're like, oh, you're just like Labour, and I'm like, we're not though.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: Like, because we actually believe in something.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: So it's but it is it's a difficult, it's an uphill battle and it's gonna be for a while, but I think we'll break through eventually.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think people who take any time to look into what the SDP are around will about will find quite a lot to surprise them.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: And and that old Labour conversation you talked about is probably because of talk of the nationalization, but also the fact that you link like Paul Embury would, and the reason why he's probably still in the Labour Party hoping it turns back this way is the reason why he is against mass immigration is because he knows it dilutes all sorts of conditions for workers, both those coming in, but also our own citizens and and uh subjects.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: And I know actually the SDP probably have the spiciest of all the uh the immigration policies out out of all the parties.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: It is no we're with we're past the point of reducing immigration to tens of thousands, but even past the point of pausing immigration.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: We need to have a period of ceasing it.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: And then we need to go on an aggressive integration program for those people who are here.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: Now that's that's interesting.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: How how does that go down on the doorstep?
20:00
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like people aren't raising it, but when you when you poll that with people, how do they typically respond?
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Most people are pretty positive about it because it's becoming more of a mainstream thing.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, if you look at the Danish social democrats, that's what they've been doing.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Um it's a quite a decent degree of success.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, the Swedish are also in the process of doing it.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I look to Scandinavia quite a lot for inspiration on that point, and it's very popular.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: Um because I think with immigration, people don't realize what the actual problem is.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of the time, if you discuss immigration, people think, oh, the boats.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Because all the rhetoric is surrounded about illegal immigration and refugees or asylum seekers or migrants that's you know crossing the channel.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: That's like a tiny percentage of immigration into this country.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of people, I think you talk to people and you think they think, oh, illegal immigration into this country is like 50k.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, guys, it's like a million.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, and you say that to people and they're like, what?
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Like they don't they don't realize it.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Um a lot of Middle England doesn't understand it.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: No.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: Um so when you then talk about it, you're like, look, we what we need to do, and this is how I say to people, I say to people, look, if Britain is a house, it's a home, if you open your door and suddenly a million people enter your house, suddenly you've got no space to do anything, they start fighting for sleeping space and all that, you know, food runs out, and suddenly everyone's just left with nothing.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: And that's what's happening.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: And I say, look, you've got to close the door, you've got to say to people, look, immigration is a two way street.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, the catechism of the Catholic Church brings this up, and it's very balanced, and I quite like it, is that if you're a rich, prosperous nation and someone arrives at your door wanting to build a life, wanting to build a career and a family and stuff, you say to them, sure.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Come on in, we'll welcome you, we'll look after you, we'll give you the opportunities you want.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: However, you have to integrate into our society, respect our laws and customs, behave yourself, otherwise you're out, right?
22:16
SPEAKER_02: And that's basically what the catechism says on it.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: And that's what I say to people.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: I say to people, this is the way it is.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh for too long, immigration's only been viewed through the lens of the immigrant.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, like, oh, welcome all the strangers.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yeah, but then you get to the point where actually maybe we should look after the people who are here already.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, and a lot of people will agree with you.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, funnily enough, the most anti-migrant people I know are immigrants because they're like they they want to pull the ladder up from behind them because they realize things are only going to keep getting downhill.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of what I say is that mass immigration doesn't help anyone.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: Like it keeps wages down, it puts pressure on the housing economy, it puts pressure on the food market, on the jobs market, on every on the and then then there's the cultural issues, which is a whole other conversation, you know.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden you've got ethnic blocs in different areas and they're not integrating and mixing, and then you've got sectarian conflict rising on the streets, like with India-Pakistan or Israel-Palestine, you know.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: I I mean in 2022 in Leicester, they the the Pakistanis and the Indians went at each other over cricket.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: Now, if the conflict had escalated beyond what it had the other week, we could have seen like other western front of that conflict breaking out in Leicester, you know, because they're not gonna like if they start writing over cricket, you know, an actual conflict between the two nations would have catastrophic uh consequences on British society.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: And Sam Bidwell, you know, wrote about this um very well, and I recommend everyone goes and checks out that that article about it because it's quite it's something that people need to be aware of.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: So once I actually raise the stats and sort of like here's the logic behind our stance on immigration, people go, oh yeah, fair enough.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: Because it's logical, like it, and that's what I love about the SDP, is all of our stances are logical, like it's just you know, mass immigration hurts everybody.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: Stop it.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: It's you know, and here's the facts to back it up.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: So well, I think it's fair to say that SDP, and I'd say that the leader, William Cleeston, uh the SDP is probably the most popular party the average person hasn't heard of.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And I'd say William Cleeston is the most popular politician that the average person hasn't heard of, because everyone who learns of them, no one has a strong reaction and strong negative reaction to them because it kind of finds a sweet spot.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And I know this is what you guys will say as well, is like this is the average position of the British person.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: You've talked about the SDP in your mind being well, not only your political home, but the one that you think is more likely to be able to create a Britain that isn't particularly embarrassed about itself, that takes the big issues seriously and has done the thinking behind them.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Now, you will find any number of comments online with big political commentators talking about how the United Kingdom has two general elections to save itself, people talking about say reform going to power in 2029.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: We'll see things stranger things have happened, but at the same token, the SDP, when they were doing very, very well in the 80s uh with their by-elections and were well ahead in the polls, came nowhere in the general election.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: So you just don't know.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we could talk about the Tories, everyone talks about the Tories being finished, but they're also the oldest political party in the world.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: And you know, Taleb, the the the the um the Lebanese philosopher who now lives in uh the US, he talks about the Lindy effect, something that's been around for a long time will probably be around a lot longer.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: That said, the Conservatives are seen to have committed a treachery on a scale that no one has ever seen before in politics.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: So maybe that just shreds all of it.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: But with all of this in mind, if we think that reform might be about to hit its crest of a wave, critics say that there's not really much behind it.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: They'll be fine found out when they get into power.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: The SDP currently don't really find themselves being included within polling amongst the major parties and how they're getting on.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: But there seems to be a sense, particularly around friends of the party, that there's an optimism that it will make a breakthrough into the public consciousness at some point.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: But what happens if it doesn't make a breakthrough in the next couple of elections?
26:39
SPEAKER_00: What then for people of your bent who have found themselves in the SDP, but also the people who are attracted to those ideas, do you see them breaking through anywhere else?
26:51
SPEAKER_02: Um obviously it's not uh it's not a particularly great idea, like you know, line four.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: Um we all like to think we'll succeed, but you never know what's gonna happen to Baltics.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, like you said, it's a long time until 2029.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: Um I think the best case scenario, if the S let's say the next election after 2029, which would be what, 2020, 2033?
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Or 34, I think.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: So let's say by then we did we haven't managed to get an MP in parliament.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: At that point, you know, we're kind of gonna have to look at ourselves and kind of go, alright, like what are we doing?
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Um it all depends obviously on our councils.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: Like if we've got a few councillors, then maybe we continue running at local election level.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: But at that point, if we haven't made a national breakthrough, we kind of need to think, right, how can we influence other political parties' philosophies?
27:43
SPEAKER_02: And then I think it just starts becoming like right, we become a bit more of a pressure group and start like really pushing out policy and making pop pop populist policy forward where we can impact parties like the Tories or Labour and keep like you know, let's we'll go with the Tories and Labour because we don't know if reform will break through.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, and then we'd be like, but right, so there's these influences, and then we can make friends with like say Danny Kruger and the Conservatives, you know, or um oh Donathan Hinkle, I think his name is in Labour.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: He's like a blue Labourite guy.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we pick up people like them and we go right, let's support these people and push them forward.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: So I think the message, sure, let's say the SDP doesn't succeed electorally, but doesn't necessarily mean that our philosophy has to die.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: Um I've because I think that's just as important.
28:33
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28:39
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28:47
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28:50
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29:03
SPEAKER_00: You can also follow me on X at Thinking Classes.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, thanks for sharing, thanks for showing your support.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the rest of the show, classmate.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: What do you make of?
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's get into something topical.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: What do you make of Labour now starting to tack to some of the talking points of the online right?
29:23
SPEAKER_00: So I think there's quite a big story here.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Keir Starmer, in the last few days, made a speech in which he referred to Britain becoming an island of strangers, unable to walk together in progress in the future.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: And he's specifically talking about mass immigration.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: And when questioned by Robert Peston, an establishment media journalist, saying, Hang on, but you're going against immigration at this point, but it's so economically beneficial to the country, which anyone critical of mass immigration has proven time and time again through various data sets that it is not beneficial.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Kia Starmer actually came back and said, no, no, no, no, the data does not back it up at all.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like that Overton window there is flapping wide open, that now you've had someone of the mainstream who typically is part of the left liberal set start using those same terms.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Do you think for that very reason that a political revolution, almost regardless of the political party you assign yourself to, is inevitable now that the Prime Minister has just taken a position which his whole career has been in opposition to it It's been an interesting couple of days for the rhetoric coming out of number ten.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Um I was pretty shocked by it because I was like, what?
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Like you know I've been against the establishment for so long, it's weird to see some of our talking points coming out of them.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Um I think we're definitely in an era of change.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: I think that last year's election marked the end of the previous political arrangement that had existed since probably Thatcher.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: I think we're now moving towards something different.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what that is, no one knows until a few years later.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: But I think historians in the future will look at this period as a period of political change.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, definitely.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: Um I think mass immigration has been a can that's been kicked down the road, and I think the people who supported it and pushed for its policies pushed too hard too quickly, and that's really lashed out in their faces.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Um Starmer saying it's pretty interesting because the man doesn't have any the man doesn't stand for anything, right?
32:09
SPEAKER_02: Like he anyone who follows him knows that he will say what he wants to say in order to maintain some sort of political power.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: Because I think I think whatever happens in 2029, I don't think Labour will survive like the government.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't think they'll be in power again.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: I think this is a this is a one-term Labour government.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: Um and but the immigration rhetoric's been very interesting.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they've now pointed out that the Boris wave won't be eligible for ILR, which I was like, amazing, like good, like that our our ILR and citizenship requirements are tiny.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Like Nigeria needs at least 15 years, like you know, like we only needed five, so now they've pushed it to 10, which is still not perfect, but it's better than what we had.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: And if they keep doing that, I'm quite happy with it.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: But well, that's uh that is a Sam Bidwell talking point.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: We we talked about Sam and his influential work on India and Pakistan, which he called before those things started to happen, which is we're gonna start seeing more issues.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: If they go to war, we're gonna be in trouble, and we've seen all the clashes outside of embassies and whatever.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: But he also did lots of work on the crazy number of benefits that we had on offer, and when I say benefits, not necessarily the welfare state, but that is also true on offer to people who are newly arrived.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And one of his big things was the five years for indefinite leave to remain, almost regardless of the contribution that you've made, you just need to be around for five years and you can be here forever with access to everything in the welfare state.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: He said, This needs to go to 15 at least, and we need higher, uh, we need we'd high higher thresholds.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very interesting he's brought this up.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: I think the thing that people will really want to see after this, now we're still now the common person is being exposed to some of those um rather generous offers, shall we say?
34:10
SPEAKER_00: The next one I think would be around voting for Commonwealth citizens.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh, if people don't know, and if you haven't listened to the episode with Sam Bidwell, as he refers to it as this is the worst deal in the history of all deals, to paraphrase Trump.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: It is.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Where effectively anyone who's part of the Commonwealth can arrive in Britain and they have access to the vote.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: They can vote in general elections.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: And when people look at the demographics, you support a uh a party like Labour, and we look at how little their vote increased at the last general election, which they won a landslide on compared to the previous one, it was a 1% increase, and they came around out with hundreds more seats, is that we know they are making offers to newly arrived peoples here in the British Isles, and those people are then likely to support them.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: So it becomes less of a conspiracy of their buying votes, and it proves that they kind of are.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: So whether they make a move on stopping Commonwealth citizens from voting in the election, because if they did, they would lose, and they're almost losing the next election by default by doing so, judging by the demographics of the people who vote for them.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: But I would imagine now people are starting to learn of these things, and you have the Sam Bidwells of this world and others really ramping this up, that there might be nowhere to go because we've still got four years of parliament left.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: It might need to be done, and it should be done because it's a it's a robbery for all of us who are part of the country.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: It is Commonwealth voting is an insane, like I'm very strongly, I have very strong opinions about Commonwealth voting.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: It's ridiculous, it's absolutely ridiculous.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: It's one of those weird imperial legacy hand lack like hangovers.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: You know what?
35:52
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't mind it so much if, say, I went to Australia and I could vote in an Australian election, but I can't.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Right?
35:58
SPEAKER_02: You can't you can't go anywhere in the Commonwealth and vote only if they come here.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: And it's just ridiculous.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: Like, why why should they?
36:05
SPEAKER_02: Like and and it is vote, it is buying votes.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: It is the Tories did it as well.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: Because the Tories, everyone goes on about Labour courting the Pakistani Muslim vote, but the Tories could uh do the the Hindu one, yeah.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: Um the Lib Dems probably do it to an extent as well, so it's like you know, it's obvious.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: And and I would love if if the Labour government had the balls to say, you know what, we're probably screwed for 2029 anyway, let's at least try and sort the country out and got rid of Commonwealth voting.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: You know what?
36:39
SPEAKER_02: I'd actually be like, you know what, fair play.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: You've actually got a moral background bone there.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think they will do it, but I'd love to see it because it's just and it's just one step closer to solving the problem.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: What do you make of a talking point which is being popularized on the online right through Carl Benjamin?
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And he's been commentating on the Lib Dems and their policies.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: And I found this quite interesting, and I'd noticed it without really making the links, but they find themselves coming up with suggestions for changes in the law, for instance, to stop antisocial behaviour.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And there's a video of Ed Davy on the train tutting away at someone playing their music.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, as many blog posts will tell you, that often it can be non-natives that are uh very doing very loud things on the phone on train journeys.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, Carl Benjamin's point is that he thinks that the Lib Dems might hold the key to a populism amongst Middle England because in reality they're all still living in societies which have not yet been fully impacted by mass immigration, they're still very attached to Middle England and they don't want anything to uh encroach against it, and so they will be they will be the party of the NIMBY's on every single level of the political spectrum.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: And he said, watch out for them, because I actually think they could end up having some pretty punchy policies without ever engaging in the same kind of rhetoric you might expect from reform or a gen Rickian side of the Tory party.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: What do you what do you make of that?
38:23
SPEAKER_00: Do you think they they have that in them, or do you think they're just the wishy-washy living in the past, and you know, Starmer uh just needs to go and play Ed Davy at FIFA and it'll all be fun and games?
38:34
SPEAKER_02: The Lib Dems hide a militia streak.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think a lot I think a lot of people like to think they're the clown party, and people on both sides of this political spectrum think this.
38:43
SPEAKER_02: Um because you know, Davy uh Davy likes to play the clown, but people need to remember that he was postmaster general when that was all kicking off, um, and he slimed his way out of that.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Um the Lib Dems.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: I actually had this conversation with a Lib Dem at the count uh in Buckinghamshire because Buckinghamshire is full of Lib Dems, and the ones in my ward were very nice to me, they're very pleasant people.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: Um but one of them, I was talking to a lady and she was like, So, where have your political beliefs come from?
39:12
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, I've lived in Birmingham for most of my life, so that's shaped my worldview.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Oh, well, yeah, that's true, because I suppose us in the countryside don't really see that, like the effects of it.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that's really interesting that she said that because it shows they're self-aware.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: And I I think that the Lib Dems have the potential.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, if 2029 goes the way that I think it's gonna go, I think we'll see Lib Dems in opposition.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: I think they'll be the official opposition to the reform party.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: Um and I don't think anyone should underestimate them because a lot of people go, oh, they are like they're they're like idiots.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: But I'd be careful, personally.
39:54
SPEAKER_02: I I think that they they have the I think the Lib Dems have the potential to be something.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: Not sure what it is yet.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I mean they've got 72 MPs, so you know they they are gonna become the protest vote for Middle England for those naturally Tory areas who've given up with the Conservative Party, are gonna go Lib Dem, because ultimately it's yeah, NIMBYism.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Before we get into the last uh the last couple of questions, Adam, that's a very interesting take.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Not one I've heard before, but seems plausible.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And whilst there's so many years to go and uh predictions can easily uh fall by the wayside, do you think that would hold if, for instance, the Tories got rid of uh Beidnach and brought in Robert Jenrick?
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Because he's the one that is even making parts of the online right who absolutely want to see the Tory party destroyed, say that Robert Jenrick gets things done.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: He's had new terms done by all sorts of um legal bodies because of two-tier justice that he's found out about.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: He's the one making all of the content which is cutting through on effectively, he's he's moved the Tory party uh to the right of reform at this point.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: What do you think the Tories would fare better with him at the helm, or do you think it's more like that, you know, you'd see Lib Dems in opposition, the Tories would be there five years later under a generic leadership, uh revitalized, having seen reform and Lib Dems duke it out.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: I know we're so far off that this could just be utterly pointless, but let's play the game anyway.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: I think that's not a bad take, to be honest.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: I think if if the Tories get rid of Kemi, and I I do think they made such a stupid decision electing her, that was mind-boggling to me that they made that decision.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: And Generic since then has shown to me that yes, he is the leader of the Conservative Party, that they kind of need to revitalize themselves and re-establish themselves as an actual Tory party.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, he's been very good on social issues.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't know where he sits economically because he doesn't really talk about it.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I think what you could see, if you see a generic, let's say, let's say Kemi hangs on till 2029, and then the Tories lose, they go down to like 40 seats or something, and the Lib Dems take over as official opposition, let's say reform, uh, we get a home parliament, reform have the most in power, and that the Tories have the tag on with reform or something like that, right?
42:19
SPEAKER_02: I reckon if generic takes over, I reckon you could see a revitalized Conservative Party in a more right-wing stance, a more conservative stance.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think that most people who would vote reform would actually kind of look at that and kind of go, yeah, that's a bit better.
42:35
SPEAKER_02: Because you can say a lot of things about the Conservatives, but they have a philosophical heritage that I think they squander.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think with Jenrik, if Jenrik was in power, I think they probably would revitalize in a way that embraces that heritage.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, because Kemi can't do it, she can't.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: She flounders every time you see her, she's just floundering, and it's embarrassing.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: I get secondhand embarrassment watching her.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: Like it's well, let let's let's linger for a moment before I ask the question I ask all of my guests who come on.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Let's linger for a moment on one of the things you said there, which was don't really know where Genric stands economically, but we know where he stands socially.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: And if anyone watches his interviews or his content, they'll realize it's all around social issues.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: And when he's challenged by people who talk about him potentially um straying past the bounds of political correctness, he's very good at handling those and says, No, no, no, this isn't about colour of people's skin when I'm talking about ending mass immigration.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: This is about being able to have a sense of shared history, shared stories, shared culture.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: And there's just been too fast, it's been too fast, too much, and people have their own stories and cultures that come over and they clash.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: And let's stay with that for a second because you've mentioned being Catholic in this podcast.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: We spoke About it offline, there's a there's a a depth to that uh tradition and that faith, which I would say was understood and lived by, and not necessarily the Catholic worldview for at least for 500 years in in Britain.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: But do you think when you look at the political class today, because this is the thing that stops me from ever really wanting to get involved, that it is so unbelievably shallow that there is basically nothing when you scratch the surface beneath our political class, that every question, whether every policy is all about the cash nexus, it's the transactional relationship between humans, as though that's all there is.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: Everything, everything that has gotten us into trouble has been quite literally following the GDP golden calf.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: And there seems to be no sense of history, no sense of anything beyond that GDP.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: When you look at the quality of the speeches delivered by our politicians in parliament, they are literally nothing, even on the people who sat there 30 years before.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: But then when you read the depth of the people who sat there 100 years before, you realize that by the late 20th century, there was almost no lights on.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: And in the 21st century, they've all turned off.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: And I suppose the thing that really worries me about politics is that the past almost doesn't exist.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: There is no sense of anyone real having ever participated in building anything in this country, and we all seem to be living off the fumes of a civilization whilst literally just headed off into a future that is so monodirectional and is just keeps on leading us down the same problems.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just wondering if it's a little bit like that Rudyard Kipling poem, The Gods of the Copy Book Headings, which is we keep on coming up with all these worldly ideas of the things that are going to make us happy, it's more pleasure, it's maximizing happiness, it's maximizing lifespan, it's all of these things, but we never actually think about the depth that makes a human life.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh what you're in politics now.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: What's your estimation of that?
46:19
SPEAKER_00: I'd agree.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I had a conversation with Lord Glassman and Maurice Glassman.
46:26
SPEAKER_02: Um Blue Labour movement he's famous for.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: Like Blue Labour, it's a good book.
46:31
SPEAKER_02: Um and the commodification of humanity effectively defines the last 40-50 years of politics.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: Um and I do think that our current political class, yeah, that they are they all say things that are a mile wide but an inch deep, right?
46:53
SPEAKER_02: And they'll say whatever they want, but there's no depth, there's no there's no heritage, there's no linkage.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, we go back to the Lib Dems, right?
47:00
SPEAKER_02: You see Ed Davy doing these stupid bloody stunts.
47:02
SPEAKER_02: That man is the heir to Gladstone, right?
47:04
SPEAKER_02: William William Clewson said that.
47:07
SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, I think of the liberals of the 18th and 19th centuries, and I'm like, damn, how far they've fallen, you know.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, even the Tories, right?
47:15
SPEAKER_02: Kemi's the inheritor of Disraeli, and there's just none of that, you know.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: You look at the some of the Tory greats of the 20th century as well, you know, Churchill, you look at Churchill, you look at Eden, you look at uh Macmillan, um, even Fapture to a less bit of an extent.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Fapture, the thing with Fatcher is what she did has affected us massively, but I think she genuinely believed it.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: Like she did at least believe in her principles and had a bit of that heritage, but after that it was nonsense, you know, and and they've all just and like Labour as well.
47:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, you know, you go for Apple to to Starmer.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, how far, how far they've all fallen is what I can say to that.
47:55
SPEAKER_02: And and that's why I like with the SDP, is that because we've got the philosophy and the attachment to our heritage, and because we can see ourselves as the inheritors not only of the SDP of the 1980s, but also of the Labour Party and the Conservative Party, um, of the actual branches of those parties that have been snuffed out, and we can reconnect the political class with that, because that's what we stand for, is that connection to our heritage and and our political history.
48:24
SPEAKER_02: Um maybe it's egotistical of me to say that, but I would like to think that that's what we are.
48:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, yes, we're tiny at the moment, but I think with the potential and that philosophical heritage, we can really drive forward.
48:40
SPEAKER_02: And if we make a breakthrough, I think we'll we'll gain quite quickly.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, all will be revealed in the fullness of time.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: Adam, before I let you go, the question that I ask all of my guests is what have you changed your mind on during the course of your life that perhaps you once thought was uh an absolute ever gonna change?
48:59
SPEAKER_00: And yet it did.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: And what was it that made you think differently?
49:03
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that is that's a pretty obviously I'm still quite young, so um, you know, um when I was like breaking out into politics, I had a bit of an authoritarian streak.
49:20
SPEAKER_02: Everyone does.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: I was like, yeah, absolute monarchy, let's go.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: Um but these days I'm much more mellow, I'm much more like, you know, actually, democracy's a good thing.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: I think our constitutional monarchy is a real like benefit.
49:36
SPEAKER_02: I think having the ability to vote and put our voices down on the ballot paper is really important.
49:44
SPEAKER_02: Um and I think just the study of history and Catholicism brought me to that, to that, that page.
49:53
SPEAKER_02: In fact, actually, yeah, like you know, as well, is that I used to fall into the the the green line go up good sort of economic for, and now I'm much more like Leo the Leo the Thirteenth and hopefully our new Pope.
50:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, with with actually, yeah, the rights of people matter, profit isn't everything.
50:12
SPEAKER_02: Just because um we're making money doesn't mean progress is being made.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: And I would much rather have economic stagnation than uh and things be good than try desperately for progress and profit and things get bad.
50:27
SPEAKER_02: I think that's that's probably what I'd go with.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: Good answer.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: I probably linking the the question and the answer back with the previous one is that we were talking about there being a lack of depth, and I know we went off on a bit of an economic bent, but also uh a tradition and history bent.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: But there's also a linking your point to uh of of of the Catholic Church and the dignity it affords individuals.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: This is something else about our political class, is that we've become so obsessed with efficiency, cost benefit, that now the way that we treat people both at the end of their life and before their life on earth is even managed to be birthed, is we treat people like they are uh an obstruction to autonomy, like they that only our freedom matters and not and not theirs, uh that only our lives matters and and not and not theirs, whether unborn or or dying.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: And that bit you talk about, how having been developing your worldview and your approach to your political life through the engaging with things much bigger and older than you and wiser than you, is something that you can see is lacking in our politicians.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: That it's like they've done they've done their MBA or their their surface level PPE course, but they've never lived anything or gone even deeper.
52:05
SPEAKER_00: And you see that in all of the policies that they make, they all go off in their herd-like thinking in certain directions.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: So that's a way of me bringing together whatever it is that happens to you, Adam, and the SDP.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: I I hope there are more people in your mould who are actually seriously thinking about what it means to be human and the things that we need to flourish, because if that in gets into people's politics and their political calculations, that is infinitely better than just hearing about GDP and autonomy and all of the degradation that that's brought.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: I've clearly just put my whole worldview and political views on the table there.
52:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I would agree with that very much.
52:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, I will say um my closing sort of thoughts on that is that you know I'm a historian as well by trade, so I've always been engaged with the past.
52:57
SPEAKER_02: And in order for politics to build the future, we have to engage with the past.
53:02
SPEAKER_02: We have to accept what happened in the past, link to it, use it to build our present, and then in that way preserve the future.
53:12
SPEAKER_02: Because if we don't, we make the same mistakes over and over again and we risk worse happening.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, we are inheritors of a great tradition.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: Um we are inheritors of a country that has been built by the blood, sweat, and tears of thousands of years worth of people and different, you know, we're talking, you know, the ancient Britons, we're talking the Roman British, we're talking the Anglo-Saxons, we're talking the Normans, we're talking, you know, the the Georgian period, we're talking all of that.
53:45
SPEAKER_02: And we inherited all of that, and we're now squandering it.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: And that is an insult to not only the people who came before us, but also to the people who come after us.
53:54
SPEAKER_02: And that is something that we need to be aware of, is that it is not just all about me and my very limited perceived perception of the world, but it is about the people before me, the people currently here with me, and the people who are going to come after me.
54:06
SPEAKER_02: And if more people can realize that and take that, like you said, into politics, we suddenly have will have policies and politicians dedicated to making this country a better place and a place for us all to enjoy living in.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: Amen to that.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Adam.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Where can we find you online?
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's interested in seeing what it is you're you're posting, things that we can expect from you, tell us tell us what's coming and where we can find you.
54:37
SPEAKER_02: So the best place to find me is X.
54:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm very limited on social media.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, I've I'm mostly on X.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, I occasionally put out some blog posts with my thoughts, but I'm very busy at the moment.
54:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, if you want to see my ramblings, I'm I'm on X.
54:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm constantly putting out stuff about Catholicism or history or whatever labor of the Tories are up to.
54:55
SPEAKER_02: Um and I I've got Facebook as well, so people can engage me with me there.
55:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, just Adam Williams STP.
55:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, or you can send me an email.
55:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, and and I say to anyone in my age group who's watching this, the YSD is for everyone under 30.
55:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm 27, some on the older end of the spectrum for the YSD.
55:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, we are we start from one pound a month.
55:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, one pound a month, you can engage with me, the rest of the community, you can help run in elections, do whatever, achieve your political ambitions.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: We want you, we want to help you get them and fix sort the country out.
55:30
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's where you can find me.
55:32
SPEAKER_02: And you'll be seeing me on the campaign trail a lot.
55:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, there you go.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, you keep fighting the good fight.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: I'll be watching your progress keenly from afar.
55:42
SPEAKER_00: And thanks so very much for coming on the show.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for having me again.
55:47
SPEAKER_00: My pleasure.
55:47
SPEAKER_00: Till next time.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: To keep up to date with all that I am doing, please subscribe to the Thinking Class YouTube channel at Thinking Class and follow me on X at Thinking Classes.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: Thinking Class seeks to understand the civilizational issues we face and why what our leaders do in response matters.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: Here I seek to explore the ideas, values, and culture that made our civilization, those that are unmaking it, and how leaders at our public and private institutions should respond.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: Engage with me on YouTube or X or write to me at thinkingclasspod at gmail.com to tell me who you want me to speak to and what topics are important to you.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: I look forward to seeing you there and for joining me on this journey.