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The digital dollar fight and the future of money · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:00
  Broadcasting around the world.
• 0:02
  This is on the record with Christian Briggs.
• 0:05
  Serious talk about what's happening around the world and how it affects you.
• 0:09
  Unfiltered truth for a world on edge.
• 0:13
  Follow us on X at BMC underscore HAM line.
• 0:19
  In three, two, one.
• 0:21
  Today's podcast dives into the reignited battle over central bank digital currencies or CBDCs, and why critics warn that a government backed digital dollar could transform money from a tool of freedom into a tool of surveillance and control.
• 0:38
  What if money stopped being just money?
• 0:41
  What if the dollars in your account could be issued directly by the central bank, tracked in real time, programmed for certain uses, restricted from others, and potentially shaped by policy decisions faster than any lawmaker could hold a hearing?
• 0:56
  That is the fear driving a new political battle in Washington.
• 0:59
  The issue is called a central bank digital currency, or CBDC.
• 1:05
  In America, people often call it the digital dollar.
• 1:08
  Supporters say it could modernize payments, make transactions faster, reduce friction and cross-border transfers, and keep the dollar competitive as the world moves deeper into digital finance.
• 1:20
  Critics say it could become the most powerful financial surveillance tool ever placed in the hands of government.
• 1:27
  Congressman Eric Burleson put it bluntly, warning that with a CBDC, the government could theoretically flip a switch and stop someone from buying a firearm, donating to a church, or spending money in a disfavored way.
• 1:42
  That claim is explosive, but it cuts straight to the center of the debate.
• 1:46
  Is a digital dollar simply a safer, faster form of public money, or is it programmable control disguised as innovation?
• 1:55
  Today, we are going deep into the digital dollar fight.
• 1:58
  What a CBDC is, what the Federal Reserve has actually said, what Congress is trying to ban, how China's system is being used as a warning, and why this debate is now tied to surveillance law, privacy, crypto, banking, and the future of American financial freedom.
• 2:15
  Let's start with the basics.
• 2:16
  A central bank digital currency is a digital form of central bank money available to the public.
• 2:22
  In the United States, the public already uses Federal Reserve money in one major form, physical cash.
• 2:28
  A $20 bill is a liability of the Federal Reserve.
• 2:32
  But most of the money Americans use day to day is not technically central bank money.
• 2:38
  It is commercial bank money.
• 2:40
  When you open your banking app and see a balance, that balance is a claim on your bank, not a direct claim on the Federal Reserve.
• 2:47
  That distinction matters.
• 2:49
  Apple Pay, Zell, Venmo, debit cards, credit cards.
• 2:54
  Those are digital payment systems layered on top of commercial banking or private payment networks.
• 3:00
  A CBDC would be different because the digital dollar itself would be issued by the central bank.
• 3:06
  The Federal Reserve describes CBDC as a digital liability of the central bank that would be widely available to the general public.
• 3:15
  It has said no decision has been made to issue one, and that any CBDC would need congressional authorization.
• 3:23
  That is the official position.
• 3:24
  But critics are not just reacting to what the Fed says it wants today.
• 3:29
  They are reacting to what they believe the architecture could enable tomorrow.
• 3:33
  Because once money becomes programmable, the political question changes.
• 3:38
  It is no longer only, can I spend my money?
• 3:41
  It becomes, who sets the conditions under which my money works.
• 3:45
  The debate reignited after lawmakers tried to attach a CBDC ban to legislation involving Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act or FISA.
• 3:56
  Section 702 is already controversial.
• 3:59
  It allows intelligence agencies to collect communications of non-U.S.
• 4:03
  persons overseas, but Americans' communications can be swept up incidentally.
• 4:09
  Civil Liberties advocates have long argued that the program needs stronger warrant protections.
• 4:15
  In April 2026, the House voted 235 to 191 to reauthorize the surveillance authority.
• 4:23
  But House Republicans also bundled in language aimed at restricting the Federal Reserve's ability to issue a digital currency.
• 4:31
  Reuters reported that the CBDC provision became a major obstacle in the Senate, where Majority Leader John Thune opposed the package.
• 4:41
  Axios described the CBDC ban as a non-starter in the Senate and reported that Thune called it a poison pill.
• 4:50
  That is why this story matters politically.
• 4:54
  The CBDC debate is no longer isolated to banking committees and white papers.
• 4:59
  It is being fought inside larger battles over surveillance, privacy, executive power, and government trust.
• 5:08
  House Majority Whip Tom Emmer said his anti-CBDC surveillance state act had been sent to the Senate after being attached to the Foreign Intelligence Accountability Act.
• 5:19
  His office argued that CBDCs could become government-controlled programmable money if developed without cash-like privacy protections.
• 5:30
  That phrase, programmable money, is the heart of the controversy.
• 5:35
  Because programmability can sound efficient, it can also sound terrifying.
• 5:39
  Opponents of a CBDC usually make five core arguments.
• 5:44
  First, surveillance.
• 5:47
  If every transaction passes through a government-backed digital currency system, critics fear the state could gain unprecedented visibility into private economic life.
• 5:58
  Not just how much money people have, but where they spend it, when they spend it, who they transact with, what causes they support, what products they buy.
• 6:09
  Representative Scott Perry framed it this way.
• 6:12
  Constituents do not want the government monitoring their bank accounts or telling them what they can buy, when they can buy it, or when they cannot buy.
• 6:21
  Second, control.
• 6:22
  Critics argue that if money can be programmed, then spending can be limited.
• 6:27
  A government could theoretically restrict purchases of firearms, ammunition, gasoline, alcohol, political donations, religious donations, or anything else deemed unacceptable.
• 6:38
  Now, defenders of C B D C's would say that does not mean the U.S.
• 6:42
  system would be designed that way.
• 6:44
  But critics respond the danger is not only the first version, the danger is the infrastructure.
• 6:51
  Third, negative interest rates.
• 6:54
  In a cash-based system, if interest rates go deeply negative, people can withdraw cash and hold it outside the banking system.
• 7:00
  And hold it outside the banking system.
• 7:03
  A fully digital monetary system could make that harder.
• 7:03
  A fully digital monetary system could make that harder.
• 7:06
  Critics fear a CBDC could allow policymakers to impose negative rates directly on consumer balances.
• 7:06
  Critics fear a CBDC could allow policymakers to impose negative rates directly on consumer balances.
• 7:14
  Fourth, expiration dates or stimulus controls.
• 7:14
  Fourth, expiration dates or stimulus controls.
• 7:18
  A programmable digital dollar could theoretically be issued with rules.
• 7:18
  A programmable digital dollar could theoretically be issued with rules.
• 7:22
  Spend this money within 30 days, use it only on groceries, use it only in certain zip codes, or prevent it from being saved.
• 7:22
  Spend this money within 30 days, use it only on groceries, use it only in certain zip codes, or prevent it from
• 7:31
  That might sound useful during emergencies, but it also turns money into a policy instrument with conditions attached.
• 7:39
  Fifth, loss of banking privacy.
• 7:42
  The Federal Reserve says any C B D C would need to protect consumer privacy, and that an intermediated model could rely on private sector wallets or accounts rather than direct Fed accounts.
• 7:55
  But critics argue that even an intermediated model may still create a system more traceable, centralized, or politically vulnerable than cash.
• 8:03
  That is why the slogan is not simply no C B D C.
• 8:07
  It is no surveillance money.
• 8:09
  To be fair, there is another side.
• 8:11
  Supporters and researchers say CBDCs could solve real problems.
• 8:15
  The Federal Reserve's discussion paper said a C BDC could provide a safe digital payment option for households and businesses, support faster payments, potentially improve cross-border transfers, and expand access to the financial system.
• 8:30
  Think about international payments.
• 8:32
  Sending money across borders can still be slow and expensive.
• 8:36
  A well-designed digital dollar might reduce settlement delays.
• 8:40
  Think about financial inclusion.
• 8:43
  Some Americans do not have easy access to traditional banking.
• 8:47
  A public digital payment option could theoretically provide safer access to digital money.
• 8:52
  Think about monetary competitiveness.
• 8:55
  Other countries are exploring CBDCs.
• 8:58
  If the U.S.
• 8:59
  does nothing, could the dollar lose ground in a world where digital settlement rails become more important?
• 9:05
  That is the strategic argument.
• 9:07
  The Atlantic Council reports that 137 countries and currency unions representing 98% of global GDP are exploring CBDCs.
• 9:18
  It also says 72 countries are in advanced phases, such as development, pilot, or launch.
• 9:26
  So the pro CBDC argument is not simply about convenience.
• 9:30
  It is about global monetary competition.
• 9:33
  But here is the problem for supporters.
• 9:35
  The American debate is not happening in a vacuum.
• 9:38
  It is happening after years of mistrust, mistrust of surveillance programs, mistrust of financial censorship, mistrust of emergency powers, mistrust of banks, and mistrust of unelected institutions.
• 9:52
  And into that mistrust comes a new form of money that could be traceable, programmable, and centrally issued.
• 9:59
  That is why even theoretical risks become politically explosive.
• 10:03
  So why are lawmakers sounding the alarm now?
• 10:06
  Because the debate over a central bank digital currency is no longer just an academic policy conversation buried inside Federal Reserve research papers.
• 10:15
  It has become part of a larger national argument over surveillance, government power, financial privacy, and constitutional freedom.
• 10:24
  And that is why this story exploded when members of Congress tried to attach a CBDC ban to legislation connected to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
• 10:37
  Section 702 is already one of the most controversial surveillance authorities in Washington.
• 10:43
  It allows intelligence agencies to collect communications involving foreign targets overseas, but critics argue that Americans' communications can get swept up in the process.
• 10:55
  So when lawmakers tried to attach a CBDC ban to a surveillance bill, the symbolism was impossible to miss.
• 11:04
  To supporters of the ban, this was the perfect place to draw the line.
• 11:08
  Their argument was simple.
• 11:10
  If Washington already has powerful surveillance tools, the last thing it should have is a government-issued digital currency that could theoretically give it visibility into everyday purchases.
• 11:20
  That is why Congressman Eric Burleson's warning landed so hard.
• 11:24
  He said, in effect, with a C B D C, the government could flip a switch and stop you from buying a firearm, flip another switch and stop you from donating to your church.
• 11:34
  That may sound extreme to some people.
• 11:36
  But to the lawmakers pushing this ban, the point is not that the Federal Reserve is currently planning to do exactly that tomorrow morning.
• 11:44
  The point is that the technology could create the ability.
• 11:48
  And in politics, ability often matters more than intention, because intentions change, administrations change, emergencies happen, laws get amended, agencies reinterpret their authority.
• 12:00
  What begins as a limited tool can become a broader system.
• 12:04
  That is the fear.
• 12:05
  The anti-CBDC argument is not just we do not trust this administration.
• 12:11
  It is we do not trust any administration with this level of financial control.
• 12:17
  That distinction matters because this is not a normal left-right argument about tax rates or spending levels.
• 12:24
  This is about the architecture of money itself.
• 12:27
  Money is not just an economic tool.
• 12:29
  Money is freedom in motion.
• 12:31
  It is how you buy food.
• 12:33
  It is how you travel, it is how you support causes, it is how you give to your church, it is how you help family, it is how you protect yourself.
• 12:42
  It is how you participate in society.
• 12:45
  So if money becomes conditional, life becomes conditional.
• 12:49
  That is the central warning from C B D C opponents.
• 12:53
  They are saying once your money depends on permission, your freedom depends on permission.
• 12:58
  To understand why this matters, think about cash.
• 13:01
  Cash is imperfect, it can be lost, it can be stolen, it is inconvenient for online purchases, it is not ideal for long distance payments, and yes, cash can be used for illegal activity, but cash has one feature that no digital system fully replicates.
• 13:17
  It allows ordinary private transactions without creating a permanent data trail.
• 13:22
  If you buy a sandwich with cash, there is no bank record.
• 13:25
  If you give your nephew $20, there is no payment process or record.
• 13:29
  If you drop cash into a church collection basket, there is no federal database of that act.
• 13:34
  If you buy a book, attend a meeting, or donate to a local cause, the transaction can remain private.
• 13:40
  That kind of privacy is not suspicious.
• 13:42
  It is part of a free society.
• 13:44
  The problem is that as money becomes more digital, cash like privacy disappears.
• 13:50
  Every credit card swipe creates data, every debit transaction creates data, every mobile payment creates data.
• 13:57
  Every online purchase creates data.
• 13:59
  Now imagine a digital dollar that is not just processed through private banks or payment companies, but issued as a liability of the central bank.
• 14:00
  Now imagine a digital dollar that is not just processed through private banks or payment companies, but issued as a liability of the central bank.
• 14:08
  Supporters might say the system could be designed with privacy protections, and technically that is true.
• 14:08
  Supporters might say the system could be designed with privacy protections, and technically that is true.
• 14:14
  But critics respond with a question.
• 14:14
  But critics respond with a question protected from whom?
• 14:17
  Protected from whom?
• 14:19
  Protected from hackers, protected from banks, protected from advertisers, protected from the government itself.
• 14:19
  Protected from hackers, protected from banks, protected from advertisers, protected from the government itself.
• 14:26
  Those are very different things.
• 14:26
  Those are very different things.
• 14:27
  A CBDC could be designed so that commercial banks or payment firms handle customer accounts while the Federal Reserve remains at a distance.
• 14:27
  A CBDC could be.
• 14:37
  That is sometimes called an intermediated model.
• 14:41
  But even then, critics worry that the system could still be more centralized and traceable than cash.
• 14:47
  And once the government creates a new form of programmable public money, the political pressure to use that programmability will be enormous.
• 14:55
  Think about stimulus payments.
• 14:57
  During a recession, lawmakers might say, let's send digital dollars that expire in 90 days to encourage spending.
• 15:03
  During an energy crisis, officials might say, let's restrict certain subsidies to approved categories during a public health emergency, someone might propose, let's prevent certain purchases deemed harmful.
• 15:16
  During a financial crisis, central bankers might say, let's apply negative rates directly to digital balances to force money into the economy.
• 15:26
  Each individual case could be defended as reasonable in the moment.
• 15:30
  But taken together, they point toward a world where money becomes less like property and more like a software license.
• 15:38
  You do not simply own it.
• 15:39
  You are allowed to use it under terms and conditions.
• 15:42
  And the fear is that those terms and conditions could change.
• 15:46
  That is why the right to transact is becoming one of the next major civil liberties debates.
• 15:52
  Because freedom of speech means less if payment processors can cut off your platform.
• 15:57
  Freedom of religion means less if donations can be monitored or restricted.
• 16:02
  The right to keep and bear arms means less if lawful purchases can be financially blocked.
• 16:08
  Freedom of association means less if every donation, membership, ticket, and purchase is permanently traceable.
• 16:16
  This is why the C B D C debate has become so emotional.
• 16:19
  It touches everything.
• 16:20
  No country's invoked more often in this debate than China.
• 16:24
  For critics of the digital dollar, China's digital yuan is the warning sign.
• 16:29
  China's ECNY is a state-backed digital currency being tested at enormous scale.
• 16:35
  On the surface, it can look like another mobile payment system.
• 16:38
  Users can pay with a digital wallet, much like they might use WeChat Pay or Alapay.
• 16:43
  But the concern is not merely the payment experience.
• 16:46
  The concern is the political system behind it.
• 16:49
  China already has a far more centralized relationship between state power, financial institutions, technology platforms, and citizen behavior than the United States.
• 17:01
  So when China develops a programmable, traceable, state-backed digital currency, American critics see it as part of a larger control architecture.
• 17:10
  They look at China and say, this is what happens when digital money meets authoritarian governance.
• 17:16
  Now, to be precise, China's digital yuan does not mean every single citizen's spending is constantly restricted in every possible way.
• 17:26
  That would be an oversimplification.
• 17:28
  But the system gives the state potential tools that worry privacy advocates, better transaction visibility, more control over capital flows, and the possibility of steering behavior through financial incentives or restrictions.
• 17:44
  That is why Congressman Burleson's line was so direct.
• 17:48
  China built that system.
• 17:50
  We are not building it here.
• 17:52
  In American politics, the China comparison does two things.
• 17:55
  First, it makes the issue understandable.
• 17:58
  Most Americans do not spend their day reading Federal Reserve papers about payment architecture.
• 18:04
  But if you say, do we want a China-style digital money system?
• 18:09
  People immediately understand the concern.
• 18:11
  Second, it reframes the issue from technology to freedom.
• 18:16
  The question is no longer, should America modernize payments?
• 18:20
  The question becomes, should America build financial infrastructure that resembles something used by an authoritarian rival?
• 18:29
  That is a much harder sell.
• 18:31
  But supporters of CBDC research would push back.
• 18:35
  They would say, China is precisely why the United States needs to study this technology.
• 18:42
  If other major powers are building digital currency systems, the U.S.
• 18:46
  cannot simply ignore the future of money.
• 18:49
  The dollar's global power depends on innovation, trust, liquidity, and technological relevance.
• 18:56
  In other words, both sides use China as an argument.
• 19:00
  Opponents say China proves the danger.
• 19:03
  Supporters say China proves America cannot fall behind.
• 19:07
  And that is the strategic tension.
• 19:09
  Do we refuse the technology because it could be abused?
• 19:13
  Or do we build a rights-protecting version before authoritarian models dominate the global standard?
• 19:20
  That is one of the biggest unanswered questions in the entire debate.
• 19:25
  Now let's talk about what the Federal Reserve actually says.
• 19:28
  This is important because the political rhetoric often makes it sound like the Fed is secretly preparing to launch a digital dollar next week.
• 19:37
  That is not the official position.
• 19:39
  The Federal Reserve has repeatedly said it has made no decision to issue a CBDC.
• 19:45
  It is also said it would not proceed without support from the executive branch and Congress, ideally through a specific authorizing law.
• 19:55
  That is an important statement.
• 19:57
  It means the Fed is publicly acknowledging that a digital dollar is not something it should create on its own, quietly by administrative decision.
• 20:07
  But opponents are not satisfied with that.
• 20:09
  Why?
• 20:10
  Because they do not want informal restraint.
• 20:13
  They want a statutory ban.
• 20:14
  They are saying, do not just promise us you will not do it.
• 20:18
  Make it illegal.
• 20:19
  That is where the anti-CBDC Surveillance State Act comes in.
• 20:23
  The purpose of that bill is to prevent the Federal Reserve from issuing a retail CBDC directly to individuals and to prevent the central bank from using a C B DC as a tool of monetary policy or financial surveillance.
• 20:38
  The language matters because some lawmakers are less worried about wholesale central bank settlement systems and more worried about a retail C B D C that ordinary Americans would use.
• 20:50
  A wholesale CBDC would be used mainly between banks or financial institutions.
• 20:55
  A retail CBDC would be used by the public.
• 20:58
  The retail version is where the civil liberties concerns explode.
• 21:00
  Where the civil liberties concerns explode.
• 21:02
  Because if every American has access to digital dollars issued or backed directly by the central bank, that raises questions about privacy, banking competition, account access, monetary control, and government authority.
• 21:02
  Because if every American has access to digital dollars issued or backed directly by the central bank, that raises questions about privacy, banking competition, account access, monetary control, and government authority.
• 21:18
  The Fed has suggested that if the U.S.
• 21:18
  The Fed has suggested that if the U.S.
• 21:20
  ever created a CBDC, the best model would likely be intermediated.
• 21:20
  ever created a CBDC, the best model would likely be intermediated.
• 21:26
  That means banks and private payment firms would provide wallets.
• 21:26
  That means banks and private payment firms would provide wallets or accounts rather than every American having a direct account at the Federal Reserve.
• 21:37
  But critics say that does not fully solve the problem.
• 21:40
  Because even if banks are the front end, the system could still create a new centralized layer of programmable money.
• 21:47
  And once that layer exists, Congress or regulators could later change the rules.
• 21:53
  That is the key fear.
• 21:55
  Not only what the Fed says today, but what future policymakers could do tomorrow.
• 22:00
  And that brings us to one of the most important points in this debate.
• 22:04
  The digital dollar is not just a product, it is infrastructure.
• 22:08
  And infrastructure outlives the people who build it.
• 22:12
  The politics of CBDC changed dramatically when President Trump signed an executive order in 2025 aimed at strengthening American leadership in digital financial technology while blocking federal action on CBDCs.
• 22:26
  The order directed agencies not to establish issue or promote a central bank digital currency unless required by law.
• 22:34
  That is a major policy statement.
• 22:37
  But it is not the same as a permanent law.
• 22:40
  Executive orders can be changed.
• 22:42
  A future president can reverse them.
• 22:44
  Agencies can reinterpret priorities.
• 22:47
  A different administration could reopen CBDC research or push Congress to authorize a pilot program.
• 22:55
  That is why congressional Republicans are still pushing legislation.
• 22:59
  They want to convert an executive policy into a legal wall.
• 23:03
  This is also why CBDC has become closely linked to the broader crypto debate.
• 23:08
  The Trump era position is not simply anti-digital money.
• 23:12
  It is anti-government digital money.
• 23:14
  That distinction is crucial.
• 23:16
  The current conservative argument generally goes something like this.
• 23:20
  America should lead in digital assets.
• 23:23
  America should support private innovation.
• 23:25
  America should protect the dollar's role in global finance.
• 23:29
  America should allow stable coins and blockchain development.
• 23:32
  But America should not create a government-controlled programmable retail currency.
• 23:38
  In that view, stable coins are the preferred alternative.
• 23:41
  A dollar-backed stable coin can move digitally around the world, support dollar demand, and compete with foreign digital payment systems without giving the Federal Reserve direct retail power over consumer wallets.
• 23:57
  Of course, stable coins come with their own risks.
• 24:00
  Who holds the reserves?
• 24:02
  Are the reserves safe?
• 24:03
  Can the issuer freeze funds?
• 24:05
  What happens during a run?
• 24:07
  Are stable coins creating a shadow banking system?
• 24:10
  Should private companies be allowed to issue money-like instruments at massive scale.
• 24:15
  Those are real questions.
• 24:17
  But in the political debate, stable coins are often presented as the free market alternative to CBDCs.
• 24:24
  That gives us the emerging policy divide.
• 24:27
  Digital dollar issued by the government?
• 24:29
  No.
• 24:30
  Digital dollars issued privately and backed by reserves?
• 24:34
  Maybe yes.
• 24:35
  Bitcoin and decentralized crypto, also part of the broader freedom argument.
• 24:40
  So the CBDC debate is no longer isolated.
• 24:44
  It now sits inside a much bigger fight over the future of money.
• 24:48
  On the record with Christian Briggs, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
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  That is where the dentist recommended spray dental defense system shines.
• 28:00
  That is where the dentist recommended spray dental defense system shines.
• 28:05
  Sprite products contain xylitol, a natural sugar, which helps get rid of those nasty, smelly acid creating bacteria in our mouth.
• 28:05
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• 28:14
  The best way to care for your teeth and gums is by using spray.
• 28:14
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• 28:18
  The spry dental defense system has a wide variety of products, toothpaste, mouthwash, mints, and chewing gums that are designed to work together to keep your teeth clean and mouth healthy and smelling sweet.
• 28:18
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• 28:31
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• 28:37
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• 28:39
  Ask your dentist about xylitol and the spray products.
• 28:43
  Sprite can be found online and at all fine natural product retailers.
• 28:47
  Let's get real.
• 28:47
  Let's get loud on America Loud Talk Radio.
• 28:49
  This is a McCullough Report, and I'm Dr.
• 28:51
  Peter McCullough.
• 28:52
  But I want to put in a word about the bear bar.
• 28:56
  The bear bar, and we feature bear bar products on the America Out Loud Shop website.
• 29:01
  So go to America Out Loud Shop and get your discount.
• 29:04
  You are going to want to try the bear bar.
• 29:06
  Get a whole box.
• 29:07
  The flavors include the original, turmeric, spicy, and herb.
• 29:13
  Now these are all natural, uh, no GMOs, no artificial ingredients whatsoever.
• 29:20
  They're carefully baked and made uh in a facility in San Diego, California, under the watch of uh Brian Bowers, who I personally know.
• 29:29
  So these are, in a sense, handcrafted.
• 29:32
  Uh, they have great ingredients and all the natural ingredients uh that your body is going to want.
• 29:39
  Now they're not a sweet bar.
• 29:41
  Uh they are savory.
• 29:43
  Meaning when you eat them, you get a great sense of satisfaction.
• 29:47
  I told Malcolm on our last show.
• 29:49
  Uh, you get a sense of uh a feeling healthy when you eat the bear bar.
• 29:54
  Um, I think one of the best applications is crumble it up and you can put it on uh a salad, for instance, probably the best salad topper I think I've uh ever had.
• 30:04
  And uh, but you certainly can eat it as a snack.
• 30:07
  Uh Malcolm likes to eat them right before I come on our show.
• 30:10
  No wonder he's in uh such a good mood when he comes on with me on America Out Loud Pulse.
• 30:16
  So when you eat a bear bar, this is not like any other energy or power bar.
• 30:20
  This is uh healthy.
• 30:22
  Check them out, go to America Out Loud shop, uh, and then search for the bear bar.
• 30:28
  Order a box.
• 30:29
  I I'd suggest order a box for each one of the flavors now so you get a sense of uh what they are.
• 30:36
  Non GMO, gluten free, that's important for me.
• 30:40
  I'm gluten free.
• 30:40
  I know I can have any one of the bear bars.
• 30:43
  So let's get real.
• 30:44
  Let's get loud on America Loud Talk Radio.
• 30:48
  America turns the big two five zero.
• 30:51
  250 years on July 4th, 2026.
• 30:56
  Tell us your uniquely American story by emailing us at Liberty at America Outloud.news.
• 31:05
  We'll publish the results on a special webpage celebrating the best of America.
• 31:14
  Now is our time, my fellow Americans.
• 31:17
  America Outloud dot news.
• 31:20
  Liberty and justice for all.
• 31:42
  Other states have followed or considered similar efforts, including Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Utah.
• 31:54
  The basic idea is to prevent a CBDC from being treated as money under state law or to block state agencies from accepting it.
• 32:02
  Now, whether a state could ultimately stop a federally authorized digital dollar is a complicated constitutional question.
• 32:10
  But state laws still matter politically and practically.
• 32:13
  They send a message, they create resistance, they build momentum, they force federal lawmakers to confront the issue.
• 32:20
  They also make CBDC opposition a state sovereignty issue, not just a banking issue.
• 32:27
  This is important because many Americans do not trust Washington to police itself.
• 32:32
  State-level bans allow local lawmakers to say, even if the federal government moves in this direction, our state rejects it.
• 32:40
  That kind of federalism has become a major strategy in other controversial policy areas.
• 32:46
  Now it is being applied to money.
• 32:49
  And this creates a fascinating conflict.
• 32:52
  Money is usually one of the most national things in American life.
• 32:56
  The dollar is federal, the Federal Reserve is national, monetary policy is national.
• 33:01
  But the anti-CBDC movement is trying to localize resistance.
• 33:05
  It is saying the federal government may control the currency, but states can still protect citizens from surveillance money.
• 33:12
  Whether that works legally remains to be seen.
• 33:15
  But politically, it has already changed the debate.
• 33:18
  CBDC is no longer just something discussed by economists.
• 33:22
  It is now something state legislatures are voting on.
• 33:25
  Let's spend a few minutes on the phrase programmable money.
• 33:29
  Because depending on who says it, it can mean something exciting or something dystopian.
• 33:34
  To technologists, programmability can mean efficiency.
• 33:39
  Imagine disaster relief funds that arrive instantly and can be used immediately by victims.
• 33:46
  Imagine government benefits that cannot be stolen by fraudsters.
• 33:50
  Imagine automatic tax collection that reduces paperwork.
• 33:54
  Imagine cross-border payments that settle instantly without correspondent banking delays.
• 33:59
  Imagine smart contracts that execute payments automatically when conditions are met.
• 34:05
  To a software engineer, that can sound like progress, but to a civil libertarian, programmable money sounds like conditional freedom.
• 34:14
  Because if money can be programmed for good reasons, it can also be programmed for bad ones.
• 34:19
  You could program money so it can only be spent on food.
• 34:22
  You could program money so it expires.
• 34:24
  You could program money so it cannot be spent outside a certain region.
• 34:28
  You could program money so it cannot be transferred to disfavored organizations.
• 34:33
  You could program money so certain people pay different rates or face different restrictions.
• 34:38
  Once money becomes programmable, the debate shifts from economics to governance.
• 34:43
  Who writes the code?
• 34:44
  Who approves the rules?
• 34:46
  Who audits the system?
• 34:48
  Who can change the permissions?
• 34:50
  Who gets an appeal if a transaction is blocked?
• 34:52
  What happens if the system makes a mistake?
• 34:55
  That last question matters because financial restrictions can destroy lives quickly.
• 35:00
  Imagine your account is wrongly flagged.
• 35:00
  Imagine your account is wrongly flagged.
• 35:02
  Imagine your wallet is frozen due to a mistake and identity match.
• 35:02
  Imagine your wallet is frozen due to a mistaken identity match.
• 35:06
  Imagine your donation is blocked because an organization was misclassified.
• 35:06
  Imagine your donation is blocked because an organization was misclassified.
• 35:10
  Imagine you are traveling and your funds do not work because of a location rule.
• 35:10
  Imagine you are traveling and your funds do not work because of a location rule.
• 35:15
  Imagine a political controversy leads to pressure on financial access.
• 35:16
  Imagine a political controversy leads to pressure on financial access.
• 35:20
  With cash, the system is dumb in the best possible way.
• 35:20
  With cash, the system is dumb in the best possible way.
• 35:24
  A $20 bill does not know who you are.
• 35:24
  A $20 bill does not know who you are.
• 35:27
  It does not know what you believe.
• 35:27
  It does not know what you believe.
• 35:29
  It does not know whether your purchase is politically popular.
• 35:33
  It does not ask permission.
• 35:35
  Programmable digital money is smart.
• 35:37
  And the fear is that smart money can become obedient money, obedient to policy, obedient to politics, obedient to whoever controls the system.
• 35:48
  That is why critics argue that cash must remain protected, not because cash is perfect, but because cash is neutral and neutrality is a form of freedom.
• 35:58
  Another concern is what a CBDC could do to the banking system.
• 36:03
  Today, when Americans deposit money at a commercial bank, that bank can use deposits to support lending.
• 36:09
  Banks make loans to households, businesses, and communities.
• 36:13
  The banking system is not perfect, but deposits are a core part of how credit flows through the economy.
• 36:19
  If Americans were given the ability to hold central bank digital dollars directly, some might move money out of commercial banks and into C B D C wallets.
• 36:29
  Why keep money at a bank if you can hold a direct claim on the Federal Reserve?
• 36:34
  In normal times, that could reduce bank deposits.
• 36:37
  In crisis times, it could accelerate bank runs.
• 36:40
  Imagine rumors start spreading that a regional bank is in trouble.
• 36:44
  In the old world, moving money takes some friction.
• 36:48
  In a CBDC world, depositors might instantly transfer balances into central bank digital wallets with a few taps.
• 36:56
  That could make financial panics faster.
• 36:59
  The Federal Reserve is aware of this concern.
• 37:02
  That is one reason it has discussed an intermediated model and why C B DC design would likely include limits, safeguards, or account structures intended to avoid destabilizing banks, but those safeguards create their own questions.
• 37:20
  Would there be caps on how much C B D C a person can hold?
• 37:24
  Would balances earn interest?
• 37:26
  Would banks be required to offer wallets?
• 37:28
  Would the government compete with private bank deposits?
• 37:31
  Would CBDC become the safest asset for ordinary people, pulling money away from community banks?
• 37:38
  The banking industry has generally been skeptical of retail C B D Cs for this reason.
• 37:44
  Civil libertarians worry about surveillance.
• 37:46
  Banks worry about disintermediation.
• 37:49
  Crypto advocates worry about state control.
• 37:51
  Some conservatives worry about monetary tyranny.
• 37:55
  Some progressives worry about financial inclusion, but also privacy.
• 37:59
  That means CBDC creates unusual alliances.
• 38:03
  You can have libertarians, community banks, crypto supporters, state lawmakers, and civil liberties groups all skeptical for different reasons.
• 38:12
  And that broad skepticism makes it politically difficult for any administration to move quickly.
• 38:18
  Now let's zoom out.
• 38:20
  While the United States debates whether a digital dollar should exist at all, much of the world is already experimenting.
• 38:28
  More than 130 countries are researching, developing, piloting, or launching CBDCs.
• 38:36
  The Bahamas launched the SAN Dollar.
• 38:38
  Jamaica launched Jam Dex.
• 38:40
  Nigeria launched the ANIRA.
• 38:42
  China has its massive ECNY pilot.
• 38:45
  India is testing a digital rupee.
• 38:47
  The European central bank is exploring a digital euro.
• 38:51
  The motivations vary.
• 38:53
  Some countries want financial inclusion.
• 38:55
  Some want faster payments.
• 38:57
  Some want to reduce cash handling costs.
• 39:00
  Some want better tax compliance.
• 39:02
  Some want monetary sovereignty in a world of private stable coins.
• 39:06
  Some want alternatives to dollar-dominated payment rails.
• 39:10
  Some want more control.
• 39:11
  That last motivation is where the U.S.
• 39:14
  debate gets nervous, because the same technology that can improve payment efficiency can also improve state visibility.
• 39:21
  And in countries with weaker civil liberties protections, that is not a theoretical issue.
• 39:27
  It is a feature.
• 39:29
  So the United States faces a strategic dilemma.
• 39:32
  If America refuses to build a CBDC, does it fall behind?
• 39:37
  Or does it strengthen the dollar by defending privacy, free markets, and trust?
• 39:41
  That is an underrated point.
• 39:43
  The dollar's power is not only technological, it is institutional.
• 39:47
  People use dollars because they trust the United States more than alternatives.
• 39:52
  They trust its markets, its legal system, its liquidity, its property rights, and its relative openness.
• 40:01
  If the U.S.
• 40:02
  created a digital dollar that Americans saw as surveillance money that could damage trust, so the dollar's future may not depend on copying China.
• 40:11
  It may depend on offering the opposite: a digital financial ecosystem rooted in privacy, rule of law, and private sector innovation.
• 40:21
  That is why some policymakers prefer stable coins.
• 40:24
  A well-regulated dollar stablecoin market could extend dollar usage globally without creating a retail CBDC.
• 40:32
  In that model, the U.S.
• 40:33
  would compete digitally while avoiding a government wallet system.
• 40:37
  But there is still a risk.
• 40:38
  If stable coins become systemically important, private issuers could become incredibly powerful.
• 40:44
  They could freeze funds, enforce policies, collect data, and shape financial access.
• 40:50
  So the real question is not simply government versus private sector.
• 40:54
  The real question is what rights do people have in a digital monetary system?
• 40:59
  Whether the issuer is the Federal Reserve, a bank, a tech company, or a stablecoin provider, Americans will need clear protections.
• 41:08
  Privacy, due process, access, neutrality, transparency, the ability to use cash, the ability to transact lawfully without political interference.
• 41:19
  This brings us back to FISA.
• 41:21
  At first glance, it may seem strange that a C B DC ban was tied to a surveillance law, but politically, it makes perfect sense.
• 41:29
  Both debates are about the same underlying question.
• 41:32
  How much power should the government have to monitor people in the name of security, efficiency, or national interest?
• 41:40
  Section 702 involves communication surveillance.
• 41:44
  C B DC critics worry about financial surveillance.
• 41:48
  And if you combine communication data with financial data, you create an incredibly detailed portrait of a person's life, who they talk to, where they go, what they buy, what they believe, what they support, what they fear, what they plan.
• 42:00
  What they support, what they fear, what they plan.
• 42:03
  That is why privacy advocates treat financial privacy as a civil liberty.
• 42:03
  That is why privacy advocates treat financial privacy as a civil liberty.
• 42:08
  Your purchases reveal your life.
• 42:08
  Your purchases reveal your life.
• 42:10
  Medical payments reveal health concerns.
• 42:10
  Medical payments reveal health concerns.
• 42:13
  Book purchases reveal interests.
• 42:13
  Book purchases reveal interests.
• 42:15
  Travel purchases reveal movement.
• 42:15
  Travel purchases reveal movement.
• 42:17
  Donations reveal beliefs.
• 42:17
  Donations reveal beliefs.
• 42:20
  Legal payments reveal disputes.
• 42:20
  Legal payments reveal disputes.
• 42:22
  Religious giving reveals faith communities.
• 42:22
  Religious giving reveals faith communities.
• 42:25
  Political donations reveal ideology.
• 42:25
  Political donations reveal ideology.
• 42:28
  A free society does not be able to do it.
• 42:28
  A free society does not require every lawful action to be invisible.
• 42:33
  But it should also not require every lawful action to be permanently visible.
• 42:38
  That is the balance.
• 42:39
  Governments need tools to fight terrorism, money laundering, trafficking, fraud, and hostile foreign actors, but those tools need limits.
• 42:48
  The problem with C B D C's, critics argue is that they could make financial monitoring easier by design.
• 42:56
  Again, the Fed says any U.S.
• 42:58
  C B DC would need to protect privacy.
• 43:01
  But opponents ask, what does privacy mean in practice?
• 43:05
  Does it mean the government cannot see small transactions?
• 43:09
  Does it mean data is anonymized?
• 43:11
  Does it mean law enforcement needs a warrant?
• 43:14
  Does it mean banks hold the data instead?
• 43:17
  Does it mean transactions are private by default and traceable only through due process?
• 43:22
  Those details matter.
• 43:24
  Because privacy can be a slogan or a system.
• 43:28
  And without legal clarity, critics assume the worst.
• 43:32
  That is why the anti-CBDC movement is demanding prohibition instead of promises.
• 43:39
  Now let's steal in the other side.
• 43:41
  What is the strongest argument for continuing C B D C research?
• 43:47
  Supporters would say this.
• 43:48
  The world is changing.
• 43:50
  Payments are becoming digital.
• 43:52
  Private companies are creating new forms of money like instruments.
• 43:56
  Foreign governments are building C B DC systems.
• 43:59
  Stable coins are growing.
• 44:01
  Crypto markets are volatile.
• 44:03
  Cross border payments remain slow.
• 44:06
  Millions of people remain underbanked, and the United States cannot afford to be technologically passive.
• 44:12
  They would argue that researching CBDCs does not mean launching one.
• 44:19
  It means understanding the risks, options, and design choices before a crisis forces action.
• 44:26
  They might also say that a properly designed C B DC could be more privacy protective than today's private payment systems, where banks, card networks, fintech apps, data brokers, and advertisers all gather enormous amounts of consumer information.
• 44:45
  That is an important counter argument.
• 44:47
  Today's system is not perfectly private.
• 44:50
  In fact, private companies already know a tremendous amount about people's financial lives.
• 44:55
  So a C B DC supporter might say do not compare a digital dollar to an idealized version of cash.
• 45:03
  Compare it to the digital payment system people actually use every day.
• 45:07
  A rights protecting C B D C argue could include privacy thresholds, strong encryption, intermediated wallets, legal limits on government access, and protections against commercial exploitation of data.
• 45:22
  They might also argue that rejecting C B DC entirely could hand the future to private monopolies.
• 45:29
  If public money does not evolve, then private platforms may dominate digital payments.
• 45:34
  And private platforms can also censor, surveil, or exclude users.
• 45:39
  So the pro-research position is not necessarily authoritarian.
• 45:43
  It can be framed as public money should survive in the digital age.
• 45:48
  That is a serious argument.
• 45:50
  But opponents respond public money already exists in digital form through bank reserves and in physical form through cash.
• 45:58
  What they reject is a retail C B DC that ordinary citizens would be pressured or required to use.
• 46:06
  And once again, the debate comes down to trust.
• 46:08
  Can a C B DC be designed to preserve liberty?
• 46:12
  Or is the safest liberty preserving design no C B D C at all?
• 46:18
  So what happens next?
• 46:20
  There are several things to watch.
• 46:22
  First, watch Congress.
• 46:23
  If the anti-CBDC Surveillance State Act gains momentum, the United States could move toward a statutory ban on retail CBDCs.
• 46:33
  But if Senate leadership continues to resist, the issue may remain unresolved.
• 46:39
  Second, watch the Federal Reserve.
• 46:42
  The Fed is unlikely to launch a C B DC without Congress, but its research posture still matters.
• 46:48
  Any pilot programs, technical papers, partnerships, or public statements will be scrutinized.
• 46:55
  Third, watch the executive branch.
• 46:57
  The 2025 executive order blocks federal agencies from advancing C B DCs, but a future administration could reverse course.
• 47:06
  That makes the 2028 political landscape relevant to the future of digital money.
• 47:11
  Fourth, watch stable coin legislation.
• 47:14
  If Congress creates a clear legal framework for dollar-backed stable coins, that could become America's alternative to C B DC.
• 47:21
  Stablecoins may become the digital dollar in practice, even if they are privately issued.
• 47:27
  Fifth, watch the states.
• 47:29
  More states may pass anti-CBDC legislation.
• 47:33
  Even if those laws face legal challenges later, they will shape public opinion and political pressure.
• 47:39
  Sixth, watch global adoption.
• 47:41
  If China, Europe, India, and other major economies move further towards C B D Cs, pressure may build on the U.S.
• 47:49
  to respond.
• 47:50
  The response may not be a retail C B DC, but it will have to be something.
• 47:55
  And finally, watch cash.
• 47:57
  The right to use cash may become a defining financial privacy issue because if cash disappears, the C B DC debate changes.
• 48:05
  A digital dollar is much less threatening in a world where cash remains widely available.
• 48:11
  But if cash becomes rare, inconvenient, or legally marginalized, then any digital payment system becomes more powerful.
• 48:19
  That is why preserving cash matters even to people who rarely use it.
• 48:24
  Cash is not just a payment method.
• 48:26
  It is an escape hatch.
• 48:28
  Before we close, there is one more way to think about this debate.
• 48:32
  Forget the slogans for a moment, forget innovation, forget tyranny, forget modernization, forget surveillance state.
• 48:39
  Ask one simple question: what test would a digital dollar have to pass before Americans should even consider accepting it?
• 48:47
  Because that is where the debate becomes real.
• 48:49
  A CBDC is not just a new payment app.
• 48:53
  It is not Venmo with a government logo.
• 48:55
  It is not a debit card with better branding.
• 48:58
  It is a new form of public money issued or backed by the central bank, operating inside a digital infrastructure that could affect every purchase, every transfer, every wallet, and every financial relationship in the country.
• 49:00
  Public money issued or backed by the central bank, operating inside a digital infrastructure that could affect every purchase, every transfer, every wallet, and every financial relationship in the country.
• 49:14
  So the burden of proof should be enormous.
• 49:14
  So the burden of proof should be enormous.
• 49:16
  The first test is permission.
• 49:16
  The first test is permission.
• 49:18
  Can an American use this money without needing political permission?
• 49:18
  Can an American use this money without needing political permission?
• 49:22
  That sounds obvious, but it is the whole point.
• 49:22
  That sounds obvious, but it is the whole point.
• 49:26
  Lawful money should work for lawful purchases.
• 49:26
  Lawful money should work for lawful purchases.
• 49:29
  It should not matter whether the user is popular or unpopular, conservative or liberal, religious or secular, wealthy or poor, urban or rural.
• 49:39
  Money should not ask who you voted for.
• 49:42
  Money should not ask what church you attend.
• 49:45
  Money should not ask what firearm you legally own.
• 49:48
  Money should not ask what protest you joined.
• 49:51
  If a digital dollar can be turned off by category, identity, geography, or viewpoint, then it is not cash in digital form.
• 50:00
  It is a control system.
• 50:01
  The second test is privacy, not fake privacy, not trust us privacy, not a policy memo that can be rewritten by the next administration.
• 50:11
  Real privacy, privacy by law, privacy by design, privacy by default.
• 50:18
  That means the government should not have routine access to ordinary lawful transactions.
• 50:23
  It means there should be clear warrant standards.
• 50:26
  Because financial privacy is not about hiding crimes.
• 50:30
  It is about protecting normal life from unnecessary exposure.
• 50:34
  A person's purchases can reveal almost everything, their medical problems, their religious beliefs, their political views, their family troubles, their relationships, their fears, their habits, their location, their priorities.
• 50:49
  In the old world, the government needed effort to learn those things.
• 50:53
  In a fully digital world, the danger is that the database already exists, and officials only need a reason to search it.
• 51:00
  That is a different kind of society.
• 51:02
  The third test is cash protection.
• 51:05
  Any digital dollar proposal that weakens cash should be rejected immediately.
• 51:10
  Cash is not outdated just because it is old.
• 51:13
  The bill of rights is old.
• 51:15
  Trial by jury is old.
• 51:17
  The presumption of innocence is old.
• 51:20
  Old does not mean obsolete.
• 51:22
  Cash matters because it is neutral.
• 51:24
  It is accessible.
• 51:25
  It is anonymous in ordinary use.
• 51:27
  It works when systems go down.
• 51:30
  It does not require a smartphone, a bank account, a password, a battery, or a cloud server.
• 51:36
  The fourth test is no programmability for political behavior.
• 51:40
  This is where the debate gets sharp.
• 51:43
  Some people will say programmability can be useful.
• 51:46
  And they are right, it can be.
• 51:48
  A government benefit could be programmed to reduce fraud.
• 51:51
  Emergency aid could be delivered quickly.
• 51:54
  Tax rebates could arrive instantly.
• 51:57
  Disaster relief could reach victims faster, but the same tool that targets aid can target behavior.
• 52:04
  So the rule has to be clear.
• 52:06
  No programmable restrictions on lawful commerce, no political blacklists, no social credit style controls, no category bans without due process, no expiration dates designed to force spending.
• 52:19
  If Congress wants to restrict something, Congress should pass a law publicly, constitutionally, subject to courts, subject to elections, it should not be done quietly through payment code.
• 52:31
  The fifth test is due process.
• 52:34
  If someone's digital wallet is frozen, blocked, flagged, or restricted, what happens next?
• 52:39
  Who tells them?
• 52:40
  How fast?
• 52:41
  What evidence do they get?
• 52:43
  Who reviews it?
• 52:44
  Can they appeal?
• 52:45
  Can they access emergency funds?
• 52:47
  Can they hire a lawyer?
• 52:49
  Can they challenge the decision in court?
• 52:52
  These questions cannot be afterthoughts because in a digital money system, being locked out is not a minor inconvenience.
• 53:00
  It can mean no food, no gas, no rent, no medicine, no payroll, no ability to live, a financial freeze is one of the most powerful actions the state can take against a person.
• 53:13
  If digital money makes freezing easier, then due process has to become stronger, not weaker.
• 53:19
  The sixth test is no forced adoption.
• 53:22
  A digital dollar should never become mandatory by pressure, even if it is technically optional on paper.
• 53:28
  The government should not say cash is still legal while making it impossible to use in practice.
• 53:34
  It should not require tax refunds in C B D C only.
• 53:39
  It should not require benefits in C B D C only.
• 53:42
  It should not pressure banks to steer customers into C B D C wallets.
• 53:47
  It should not allow businesses to be punished for accepting cash.
• 53:50
  Because if every major institution pushes people into the system, then voluntary becomes meaningless.
• 53:57
  The seventh test is constitutional accountability.
• 54:00
  No central bank, agency, or executive order should create a retail digital dollar on its own.
• 54:07
  If America ever takes that step, it should require Congress, full debate, clear statutory limits, public hearings, privacy guarantees, judicial review, sunset provisions, independent audits.
• 54:21
  And even then, Americans should be skeptical because monetary infrastructure is not easy to undo.
• 54:28
  Once the rails are built, they tend to stay.
• 54:31
  Once agencies develop tools, they tend to defend them.
• 54:34
  Once data starts being collected, new uses are always discovered.
• 54:39
  The eighth test is separation from social policy.
• 54:43
  Money should not become a reward and punishment system for lifestyle choices.
• 54:47
  Today, it might be framed as public health.
• 54:50
  Tomorrow it might be climate policy.
• 54:53
  The next day it might be national security.
• 54:55
  After that, it might be misinformation.
• 54:58
  After that, it might be extremism.
• 55:00
  Every generation believes its emergency is unique.
• 55:04
  Every government believes its motives are justified, but liberty depends on refusing to build systems that assume perfect rulers.
• 55:13
  The American system was not built on the idea that leaders would always be good.
• 55:18
  It was built on the idea that power must be limited because leaders are human.
• 55:23
  That principle applies to money too.
• 55:25
  The ninth test is resilience.
• 55:28
  A digital dollar would have to work during cyber attacks, power failures, banking crises, natural disasters, internet outages, and technical errors.
• 55:38
  Cash works when the grid fails.
• 55:40
  A CBDC would need some kind of offline functionality to be comparable, but offline digital money raises its own security and fraud issues.
• 55:52
  So again, the solution is not simple.
• 55:55
  That is why anyone who says this is easy is not being honest.
• 55:59
  The tenth and final test is trust.
• 56:00
  The tenth and final test is trust.
• 56:02
  And this may be the hardest one of all, because trust cannot be printed.
• 56:02
  And this may be the hardest one of all, because trust cannot be printed.
• 56:06
  It cannot be coded.
• 56:06
  It cannot be coded.
• 56:08
  It cannot be mandated.
• 56:08
  It cannot be mandated.
• 56:09
  It cannot be announced at a press conference.
• 56:09
  It cannot be announced at a press conference.
• 56:12
  Trust is earned.
• 56:12
  Trust is earned.
• 56:13
  And right now, many Americans do not trust Washington with more surveillance power.
• 56:13
  And right now, many Americans do not trust Washington with more surveillance power.
• 56:18
  The digital dollar debate is really a debate about the future boundary between citizens and the state.
• 56:18
  The digital dollar debate is really a debate about the future boundary between citizens and the state.
• 56:24
  Supporters see modernization.
• 56:24
  Supporters see modernization.
• 56:26
  Opponents see control.
• 56:26
  Opponents see control.
• 56:28
  And if the dollar becomes digital,
• 56:28
  And if the dollar becomes digital, programmable, and centrally managed, then Americans will have to ask one very simple question: Is this still money or is it permission?
• 56:38
  That is the question at the heart of the digital dollar fight.
• 56:42
  And it is a question Washington has not answered yet.
• 56:45
  I'm Christian Briggs, and thank you for listening to my podcast on the record.
• 56:49
  Take care and see you next time.