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The kids’ video games inspired by ISIS and Nazis · The Front

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
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  Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, April twenty two, twenty twenty six. The Federal
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: government's announcing reforms to the ballooning and fraud ridden National
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  Speaker 1: Disability Insurance Scheme and it'll involve a huge stash with
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  Speaker 1: the states and territories over who pays for the treatment
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: of some clients, including children with autism. Australia's productivity rates
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: are so low they'll keep the federal budget in the
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  Speaker 1: red until at least the twenty thirties. That's an exclusive
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  Speaker 1: live now at the Australian dot com AU. If you
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  Speaker 1: have kids in your life, they're playing Roadblocks and they've
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  Speaker 1: probably been exposed to contact with strangers, ultra violent material
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  Speaker 1: and maybe content that glorifies the Nazis and Isis. Today
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  Speaker 1: the Federal government's launching a war on roadblocks, Minecraft, Fortnite
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  Speaker 1: and Steam to force the gaming platforms to protect children.
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  Speaker 1: Our political editor Jeff Chambers has the scoop and he's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: here in just a moment. Jeff Chambers is The Australian's
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  Speaker 1: political editor and Jeff, you and I could be game
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: designers today if we wanted to, we could create a
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  Speaker 1: game in which a dashing camera political editor and a
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  Speaker 1: hard working Sydney podcast host go out on the street
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  Speaker 1: and sort of fight some crime, do some justice. And
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  Speaker 1: that's because of Roblocks, one of the world's most popular
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  Speaker 1: and lucrative gaming platforms, where anyone can design a game,
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  Speaker 1: ask other users to help them finesse it, and then
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  Speaker 1: everyone can play.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, the beans are fully grown.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like paradise for gamers, doesn't it.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, it is, and the target audience is young children,
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  Speaker 2: and my kids have been playing it since they were three,
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  Speaker 2: four five, when they first got their hands on an
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  Speaker 2: iPad or a phone, and when you first take a
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  Speaker 2: glance at Robeblocks, it seems like this sort of beautiful,
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  Speaker 2: innocent world, just kids playing obbs, jumping over objects and
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  Speaker 2: you know, maybe playing a murder mystery game or getting
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  Speaker 2: their friends on and chatting with them as they play.
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  Speaker 1: The goal is super simple.
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  Speaker 2: You have to get from point A to point B,
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  Speaker 2: but there's catch.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone has to make.
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  Speaker 2: It through the pandemic. Roadblocks really took off and now
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  Speaker 2: it's really part of almost every Australian family's life, and
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  Speaker 2: the sheer volume of games because they really aren't that sophisticated.
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  Speaker 2: There's just so many games to choose from, so as
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  Speaker 2: a parent you might look over your kid's shoulder and
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  Speaker 2: you go, well, there's even more games, and there's different
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  Speaker 2: variations of those games. And the one thing that you
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  Speaker 2: always sort of in the back of your mind, you think, okay,
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  Speaker 2: what rules and restrictions are there? Because there is a
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  Speaker 2: messenger element to it, where on the top of the
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  Speaker 2: screen you can see, you know, a user name ZIGGI
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  Speaker 2: five hundred or whatever it might be Chanelle, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and it's going to say, hey, how are you going,
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  Speaker 2: Are you having a good day or do you want
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  Speaker 2: to play with me? And unfortunately we know the stranger
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  Speaker 2: danger of old in the streets and down the shops
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  Speaker 2: is now very much on your tablet or your computer
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  Speaker 2: at home.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, my kids play too. My daughter does things like
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: planting seeds and sweet sort of innocent things.
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  Speaker 2: Everyone is so nice.
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  Speaker 1: Here, someone give me a giant moonmelon just because I
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: weaved at them.
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  Speaker 2: I used to pray for times like these, grow a garden.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, my son plays a game where you can either
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  Speaker 1: be a criminal in jail or a prison guard, and
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  Speaker 1: you either have to escape from the jail or you
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: have to stop the prisoners from escaping, and he alternates
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: between which one he's going to do. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: it is amazing fun. It is a beautiful platform. Low
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  Speaker 1: fire games. They help you design them and then you
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  Speaker 1: can And this is another kind of slightly sinised to
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  Speaker 1: part of it for parents. You can earn in game
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  Speaker 1: currency called roebucks, which is actually how this platform makes
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  Speaker 1: its money. That is money you buy with a real
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  Speaker 1: credit card that you can then spend in the game
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  Speaker 1: to do things like, you know, buy yourself for getaway car.
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  Speaker 2: On day one, I had three carrots in a dream.
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  Speaker 2: By the end of the week, I made twenty six
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  Speaker 2: billions selling sugar apples at the summer harvest event, or
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: change your outfit, you know, you little mini skirt or
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  Speaker 2: clothes or you know, every parent should watch if their
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  Speaker 2: credit card is attached to that Roadblocks account.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, as you say, the messaging part
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  Speaker 1: of it is the really easy to pick sinnis de part.
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  Speaker 1: You can turn that off and make sure that your
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  Speaker 1: children can't interact with strangers or with anyone.
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  Speaker 3: Playing with friends is chaotic, but we are super insic.
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  Speaker 2: Well.
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  Speaker 1: Roadblocks went public a few years ago and now it's
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  Speaker 1: a subject of lawsuits in several American jurisdictions. Various states
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  Speaker 1: and counties are sewing roadblocks. It's just settled with the
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  Speaker 1: state of Nevada and it's promising to improve its child
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  Speaker 1: protection system, including age verification. But that's not going to
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  Speaker 1: be enough for Australia's digital watchdog, Julie Inman Grant. You're
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  Speaker 1: breaking a story today about what she's doing in regard
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  Speaker 1: to roadblocks. What's happening.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Julian M Grant, who has shown that she's
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  Speaker 2: not afraid of taking on big offshore tech companies on
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  Speaker 2: a number of fronts, has now sent these legally mandatary
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  Speaker 2: obligation compliance requests to four big companies, which includes roadblocks
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  Speaker 2: and a couple of other big gaming platforms. Fortnite is
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  Speaker 2: on their minecraft. These are the ones that people would
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  Speaker 2: know parents and grandparents out there. They're very, very popular
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  Speaker 2: and really they are obligated to come back and if
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  Speaker 2: they don't, there are penalties that exists there. And it's
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  Speaker 2: also the public shaming element of it, where if these
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  Speaker 2: types of companies and they've done this effectively the e
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  Speaker 2: Safety Commission, there've been global leaders on it, where if
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  Speaker 2: the companies don't play ball, you can escalate that through
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  Speaker 2: a plethora of new laws that have been created in
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  Speaker 2: recent years. You could go to court like she did
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  Speaker 2: with Elon Musk, and while they're not always successful, it
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  Speaker 2: is going to cause a bit of public commentary. So
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  Speaker 2: these companies and businesses. Roadblocks has recently indicated that it
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  Speaker 2: is trying to improve that age verification element of it,
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  Speaker 2: and I know that that's happening in the gaming system.
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  Speaker 2: One of my children came recently and said, oh, can
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  Speaker 2: you let us have this because this thing's popped up.
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  Speaker 2: But I'm sure their friends have already found ways to
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  Speaker 2: get around it. So it's constantly evolving, and I think
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  Speaker 2: it's more of the public shaming element rather than necessarily
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  Speaker 2: the financial penalty, that moral argument that if our kids,
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  Speaker 2: and this is the real concern we're seeing this around
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  Speaker 2: the world, are exposed to games that allow children to
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  Speaker 2: be mass shooters, that glorify the holocausts, you know, set
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  Speaker 2: up Nazi camps and the real other scary ones. So
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  Speaker 2: there is the attempt to radicalize young people, and they
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  Speaker 2: don't have to be little children. They could be teenagers
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  Speaker 2: because a lot of ages are playing these games. It's
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  Speaker 2: the predators, it's the pedophiles, and this is happening, frightening
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  Speaker 2: pace that are trying to use these platforms to groom kids.
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  Speaker 2: And it's not just roadblocks, it's these other games as well.
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  Speaker 2: Where there is a communication element, there are associated encrypted
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  Speaker 2: communications that exist, and these predators are hiding behind these games,
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  Speaker 2: trying to extort young children, and I don't think anyone
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  Speaker 2: in society would accept that.
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  Speaker 1: A few years ago, Julie man Grant published a report
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  Speaker 1: where she'd asked children where they had seen content that
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: they wish they hadn't seen, where it was on Instagram
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  Speaker 1: or on Twitter, and interestingly, a lot of children nominated
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  Speaker 1: YouTube as being a place where they had seen something
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  Speaker 1: that they now wish they hadn't seen, whether that's someone
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  Speaker 1: talking about having an eating disorder, or an episode of violence,
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  Speaker 1: or just something really disgusting. And it also revealed that
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  Speaker 1: the children are seeing things on these gaming platforms that
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  Speaker 1: are distressing them as well. We don't normally think of
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  Speaker 1: these platforms as social media, and we don't think of
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  Speaker 1: them as the target for the government's social media laws,
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  Speaker 1: do we? But now she's widening the net to include
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  Speaker 1: them as well.
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  Speaker 2: Oh look, I think the social media band was really
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  Speaker 2: targeted at teenagers, you know, so probably twelve to eighteen.
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  Speaker 2: What got lost in that is this cohort. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: parents are busier, it's not like it used to be,
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  Speaker 2: and kids as young as two or three are on
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  Speaker 2: a they're on YouTube watching a video. It might be
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  Speaker 2: a nursery run back then, but they over time will
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  Speaker 2: become quite attached to their device and the gaming element
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  Speaker 2: and this communications that goes on, particularly for boys playing
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  Speaker 2: those shoot up games and things like that as well.
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  Speaker 2: You know, they'll lock themselves away in the room for
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  Speaker 2: hours on end, and parents are probably thinking, who are
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  Speaker 2: they talking to? I hope it's a friend. Quite often
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  Speaker 2: it's someone that's over in America, it's someone that's over
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  Speaker 2: in Europe. So this has always been a real issue,
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  Speaker 2: and I think that the social media ban it's sort
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  Speaker 2: of glossed over the real dangerous threat that these gaming
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  Speaker 2: platforms pose if there are no checks and balances, and parents,
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  Speaker 2: as I said, are so busy that quite often you
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  Speaker 2: might be making dinner and watching a movie whatever it
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  Speaker 2: might be, and your kids they could even be sat
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  Speaker 2: right near with headphones on and you don't know what
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  Speaker 2: might be happening. And let's be frank, generally this wouldn't
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  Speaker 2: be happening and kids would be having probably positive experiences
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  Speaker 2: and socializing with their mates. But it only takes one
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  Speaker 2: or two shocking examples that it will completely destroy families
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  Speaker 2: and societies.
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  Speaker 1: I was really shocked to see an ISIS inspired game
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  Speaker 1: in your story that's been published in the Australian today,
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  Speaker 1: where you can play as a member of ISIS who
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  Speaker 1: is hunting people who are wearing orange jumpsuits. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: that is truly horrifying, isn't it? Oh?
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  Speaker 2: Terrific? And you can see how games like that would
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  Speaker 2: be used to radicalize youth, because what would a young
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  Speaker 2: austral kid or a kid from anywhere no about Islamic state?
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  Speaker 2: About ISIS? If it's a young boy and they've got
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  Speaker 2: machine guns and they're riding on the back of jeeps,
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  Speaker 2: do that they know that those people in those orange
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  Speaker 2: jumpsuits are innocent people that were taken hostage and beheaded
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  Speaker 2: by ISIS. Do they know what ISIS wanted to do
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  Speaker 2: and trying to create a caliphate? They don't know that,
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  Speaker 2: But it's a little in it's a way for full
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  Speaker 2: predators to connect with young brains that are still forming
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  Speaker 2: and still learning about the world.
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  Speaker 1: One of the arguments that the big tech giants use
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  Speaker 1: is that we're not publishers. We are just a hosting
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  Speaker 1: platform where anyone can do whatever they want. This is
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  Speaker 1: the argument put forward by let's say, Meta, which owns Facebook.
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  Speaker 1: We can't be held responsible for the content that's published
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  Speaker 1: on our site. Is that what the gaming giants are
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  Speaker 1: arguing to I.
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  Speaker 2: Think a very different argument, because talking about consenting adults
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  Speaker 2: and the way they consume things is one thing. Talking
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  Speaker 2: about kids living in another universe in some respects, I
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: think that there's a big difference there, and there is
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  Speaker 2: a really great duty of care to better understand it.
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  Speaker 2: That's really important, first part for parents to understand what
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: safety measures are put in place or if there are
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  Speaker 2: any at all, and obviously that's the responsibility of a
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  Speaker 2: parent to do that. I think these companies will try
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  Speaker 2: and get away with as much as they can. And
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  Speaker 2: what we're seeing is like there is a lot of
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  Speaker 2: money to be made in this gaming and it's not
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  Speaker 2: just for kids, it's also for adults. I mean, anyone
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  Speaker 2: that's on their device are getting all these gaming options,
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  Speaker 2: which they are then littered with ads, and which have
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  Speaker 2: buying options as you mentioned, where if you pay for
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  Speaker 2: something you get extra equipment or move ahead in a stage.
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  Speaker 2: So there's big money there. But it's generally unregulated and
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  Speaker 2: it's probably not that easy to regulate. So that brings
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: that argument in around freedom of speech. But as I said,
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  Speaker 2: if kids are being exposed to harm, you know, I
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: think we have certain standards that should be upheld. Really complicated,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: really tough to do that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Coming up, why Australia can be a tech company's best
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: friend or its worst enemy.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Australia is such.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: An appealing market for tech companies because we are relatively
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: affluent where English speaking, of course, and we have very
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: high penetration of devices, so you know, every household has
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: multiple devices, including for children. We're also a danger spot
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: for these tech companies because our governments have shown their
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: willingness to try and lead the world in regulation, similar
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: to the way Australia in the previous labor government tried
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: to lead the world in the regulation of smoking plane
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: packaging legislation, and we are going to.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Ensure that in Australia there are no remaining avenues for
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: tobacco companies to market and promote their products, particularly to
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: young people. Gone are the days where people can pretend
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: that cigarettes are glamorous.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: That example of plane packaging legislation and the increase in
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: excise has shown how these things can actually go wrong.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: The best intentions of a government have actually created a
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: massive black market. What do you think about the way
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the Albanese government is approaching this one and their appetite,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: for example, for massive lawsuits brought by these companies against them.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I think we've seen with the social media band for
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: kids under sixteen, bunch of countries France and others in
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  Speaker 2: New Zealand I think have followed suit, so the Albanesi
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: government can claim that they were an early mover and
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: that others followed them. I think the challenge with that
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: one is that are we actually seeing the band being effective?
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  Speaker 2: Is it actually working? And there's some really arguments out
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  Speaker 2: there that kids are finding easy ways around it and
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  Speaker 2: that the efforts to stop certain types of behaviors hasn't
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  Speaker 2: actually been effective. I think on the gaming side of
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  Speaker 2: it in our in the Pacific region, for example, like
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  Speaker 2: the child exploitation side of things is horrific and as
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  Speaker 2: we've seen from some awful examples around the world, including
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: here in Australia, the radicalization of youth. It might only
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: be a handful, it might be a group of people,
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  Speaker 2: but that can lead to some terrifying consequences. So I
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  Speaker 2: think there is a policing, law enforcement, intelligence side of
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  Speaker 2: this that actually packages up with the moral side of
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: this and the support for parenting in a tech age
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: which is becoming an increasingly complicated space.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: All companies lobby, they have a right to do that.
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  Speaker 1: They engage professionals to go to Parliament House in canber
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and argue in front of politicians on their behalf. The
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: gaming companies and the tech giants are all doing that
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and that's something going to work. So Jeff, if they
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: feel like there's a chance with other political parties or
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: elements within labor are got to be sympathetic to their arguments.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: What's your sense of the political landscape on this. Is
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: everyone in Canberra kind of united on the idea that
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: we have to crack down.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Look, I think there's been a bit of a shift
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  Speaker 2: in the coalition. Peter Dutton obviously was an early mover,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: and I think there was a lot of politics a
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: play on that when he moved to try and say
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: we should ben kids under sixteen using social media. I
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: think the rise of One Nation has seen people in
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: the coalition shift in terms of sort of thinking, well,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: looking at that Elon Musk argument or other arguments around
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: freedom of speech and stop interfering, you can't do anything
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: about it. You're promising things that are getting the hopes
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: up of parents and then there will be tragic consequences
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: down the line. What does it all really mean? This
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: is typical of a government that tries to sort of
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: badge things up and pretend like it's more substantive than
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: it is. So I think that on the conservative side
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: of politics there is a thinking that government should stay
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: out of people's lives more, and that any attempt at all,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: or any perception of impinging on a person's freedom of
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: speech is not something that the conservative side of politics
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: in Australia should support. So there has been an evolution
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I think on the conservative side.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a massive week in Cambra. We'll let you
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: get back to it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks Jeff, Thanks Claire.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is The Australian's political editor. You can read
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: all his reporting right now at the Australian dot com,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: dot au