Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Book Writing and Wholeness in Marriage | Guest Marilyn Vancil Enneagram Nine

Transcript

Book Writing and Wholeness in Marriage | Guest Marilyn Vancil Enneagram Nine · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Hey friend, welcome to the kickoff of the sixth annual holiday celebration rhythm here at Simply Wholehearted.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: I am so excited to bring you incredibly rich and fun conversations to help you finish out 2022 with more peace, simplicity, and joy, because that is what I'm all about.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: And that to me, well, it equals celebration.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: So this month, if you're listening in real time, I have got loads of conversations with some of my favorite people.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: And while they aren't going to be holiday specific, stay tuned till the end of those conversations because I'm asking rapid-fire questions that will add in the celebration spirit.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: I want to tell you everything that I've got planned for the 21st season of the podcast.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, 21st season?
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, are you kidding me?
0:52
SPEAKER_00: There are going to be 21 seasons of the podcast by the end of this.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: But for now, I just want to introduce you to today's guests.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: She is a beloved sage in the spiritual and Enneagram spaces.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Enneagram 9, spiritual director, coach, and author, Marilyn Van Sill joins me today to talk about all things Enneagram writing and specifically her new book, Beyond the Enneagram, which comes out next week.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: And again, if you're listening in real time, that's October 18th, so you still have time to pre-order.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Here's an excerpt from Beyond the Enneagram.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Our souls need restoration.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Our minds need renewal.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Our wills need bridling, and our hearts need mending.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that so good?
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love that quote so much.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I enjoyed the whole book so much that I got to endorse it.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: And Marilyn mentioned that my endorsement got put on the back cover, which I think is so cool because I'm just little old me doing my podcast.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: I will also be putting the link in the show notes so you can purchase this book if you're interested.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: And I have a strong feeling that you will be wanting to get your hands on this book after you get to quote unquote meet Marilyn in this conversation.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Now, in this specific episode, you're going to hear us talk about well, a lot of things, but I've narrowed it down to these six highlights.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: First, we're going to share some insights into the book writing process.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Second, we're going to have a conversation about how to know when God is leading you to write a book.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Third, we're going to hear some stories about how God has worked in mysterious ways for Marilyn and on her behalf.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Fourth.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Marilyn's going to share about how the Enneagram has helped her in various roles in life, such as being a wife to an Enneagram three for over 50 years, a mom, a grandma, author, business owner, and so much more.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Fifth, Marilyn's going to share tips for Enneagram nines about prioritizing life.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: And last but not least, she's going to be sharing the importance of working on your own wholeness in marriage and exactly what God is inviting you to.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, with just those six big ideas to hear about, don't you want to listen?
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned afterwards too, where I'm going to share a little bit more about my main takeaways, plus what to expect in the coming weeks.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Amy Wicks, a Jesus and Enneagram enthusiast.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: As a wife, mama of three humans, and a fur baby, I get it.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Juggling entrepreneurship in a family is challenging.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: But I believe the Lord does want your work to be enjoyable.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: As an Enneagram Type 7, I am all about the fun factor.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: And this podcast is here to help you put the joy back into working mom life.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: So you can see 1 Timothy 6.17 come to pass in your own.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: It's a verse that says, God has given us all things to enjoy.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: All?
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, friends, it means all.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Motherhood, work from home life, or work out of the home life.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: With the Lord's help, there is truly a way to feel calm, balance, joy, clarity, and peace in any arena of life.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Simply Full Hearted Podcast, where you can expect solo-style and interview-style episodes that are full of faith-based concepts, simple ideas, Enneagram insights, alongside practical tips to help you put that smile back on your face when it comes to doing life with Jesus.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Now get your headphones and head to that big pile of dishes in the sink, or maybe that bathroom that needed cleaning two weeks ago.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And let's get to learning together.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Marilyn, I am so glad to have you here on the podcast.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining me this year.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm delighted to be here, Amy.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Good to connect with you again.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: And I look forward to our conversation.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Now, last year we got to connect for the first annual summit.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: It was a real delight.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: And we started chatting then about this book in the works.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: We did, didn't we?
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: I was writing it.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And my friends maybe know by now if they've been around here, because we talk about the book writing process.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's more work and the gestation period is greater than any birth process that we've experienced.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: So I'm ready for it to be birthed, which is in on October 18th.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: So it's ready for this baby to be out in the world.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is literally just days away.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited for you.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: I know that I got some early previews, and immediately I think I was maybe two chapters in.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh yes.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: This is so, so good.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: I hope that's the response of people.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just hope it's a blessing out there and an encouragement for people's spiritual journeys with God and their journey to wholeness.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: For you, what what kind of gave this thought?
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I have another book to write, because some people, one book is, you know, they just know that's their opus or what they were intended to write.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: And your your book, Self to Lose, Self-Define, has been one of my most highly recommended Enneagram books.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: It's truly not just saying that to you, but something that I have gifted or encouraged my clients to read through.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, you know, for me, even I think, oh, was I just supposed to do one Enneagram book?
6:54
SPEAKER_00: And I maybe have other books in me.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: But for you, where did this go?
6:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I think I think I have more to say on this topic, more to help people experience the transformation with the Enneagram.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Great question.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: And it came as a surprise to me, actually, Amy.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, the first book came as a surprise.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: This isn't on my bucket list, it hasn't been on my bucket list all these years to write a book.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: And so the first book was a bit of a surprise when I felt called to write that Enneagram book, self-to lose, self-define.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: And then I was people kept asking me, are you going to write another book?
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And I went, uh, I don't know.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't have it in me.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I think I have something I'd like to say, but oh, it's just too much work.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: And and I self-published the first time around.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: And then um, as I was kind of thinking about what's what's next, I get a call, random call from Random House, the editorial director.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: And she had my self-to-lose, self-to-find book, the self-published version.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And she called and said, Can we please re-republish this under our brand?
7:57
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What, huh?
7:59
SPEAKER_01: And she goes, This is so good.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And we need this book.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: And can can we do, can we take you know, take it?
8:05
SPEAKER_01: And then she said, Would you write another book?
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Are you writing another book?
8:08
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I don't, I don't know.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: So I said, Well, I have some thoughts, but I don't know that I want to go through the process.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: And she goes, Well, why don't you write up me a quick proposal and I'll present it.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: So I wrote a paragraph.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: That was it.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh my word.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: And within days, I had a two-book contract.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: So I really was God saying, Yes, I want you to write this book.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know if I would have mustered up the energy to do it, but I sensed God saying, Marilyn, I have something I want you to say, and I know you're not going to do it on your own.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: So here you go.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: It's on in, I'm just handing it to you.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: So I embarked on that.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: So that's really how it came about.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: That is unbelievable.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I know.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I go, this is how the Lord works with Enneagram Nines, right?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: I needed that.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: I needed that encouragement, that invitation to do it again.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: And then I then I, you know, started putting down what was really on my heart to write the book about, and it evolved over time.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: So I'm proud of it.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm happy with how it turned out.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I yes, as you should be.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: What a beautiful testimony of being obedient with what the Lord has put on your heart.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: You self-publish it and the Lord carries it, right?
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, that's what he's in the business of doing.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: We are faithful.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, I and I want to clarify here because I feel like someone might be listening, going, Well, I have been faithful and I've been obedient, but it's not being carried the way I thought it would be.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And I bet that you would give Sage wisdom and advice to go, well, just because it doesn't look like my story or her story or your quantification of Matrix, it doesn't mean God's not carrying it.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, mine's kind of an odd story in the publishing world to be, you know, be pursued.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't always work that way.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, God's in the middle of all of it.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And for me, it that's the what my story was.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: But I wasn't even, I didn't even care really care, which is kind of a surprise, you know.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: And so yes, yeah.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, God works in mysterious ways and is always, you know, drawing us to a closer relationship with God.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: And and however the circumstances work is a mystery.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: And but God's Jesus said, I'm with you always.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, oh, that's just beautiful.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: I love how he has woven your tale and may it be an encouragement that you just never know what what you do, you know, you're just in obedience with the Lord, and the Lord will do with it what he wants.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: And um, it we were just before uh we hit record here, I was asking you questions about the big 50th wedding anniversary celebration.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I am working on my own project, if you will, but for you, like that's a significant milestone.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to ask from this lens of okay, you've got 50 years of marriage and decades of motherhood, and you also have grandmother on your resume.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear how for you, just in your personal experience, we get we get parts of that in the books, but what would you say to how has the Enneagram helped you and all those various roles?
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, and very very tasking roles in the end.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, need lots of grace for that.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Boy, that's for sure.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, Jeff and I were introduced to the Enneagram 30 plus years ago.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: And I started thinking, you know, we were just we were only married 15, 18 years.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: So we were in, you know, and we have four children.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: So that was a long, it's been a long journey with us with the Enneagram.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: But at that time, when we both learned it uh with a series of cassette tapes, which really dates us so it was so eye-opening and it was so clear which type we identified with, both of us.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: And then it became like a neutral conversation point rather than it being so personal, like, well, you're not coming home, blah, blah, blah, and I you're mad and I'm mad.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: We had something that we could put out on the table and recognize, oh, this is a pattern of a type nine.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: This is a this is a reactivity point of a type nine.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: Or for Jeff who identifies with type three, I could understand the type three drive and and vision.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: And so it really just gave us a lot of grace for each other.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: And so over the years, that's been really helpful for us to see that.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: And also when we recognize that I'm a one-to-one and he's a social, which is kind of like a nine-nine and a three-three.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: That it was like, oh, that's part of the problem.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Not, you know, that's part of our our story.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: And no wonder that's where we kind of could get hung up and and um frustrated with each other.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: So it just gives a, you know, there's just such a place of grace for all of that.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: And now it's like we just, you know, we just accept each other and let each other run in the lane that we're called to run in and who we are, and it's okay.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: There's no no trying to correct or change each other as much.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: And then as a mother, it was eye-opening for me to realize when I was in the middle of motherhood.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: And I my first career was a stay-at-home mom for these four four children, and I chose that and loved it.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: And but I was like a lost sock in the drawer, you know, in the laundry pile for so long because I was just running trying to make everybody happy and everybody peaceful, and I didn't want any conflict in our home and all of those things that drive it denied.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that just helped me to own my own self as a valid person and to step into that rather than just being kind of what I was feeling as nothing, like I didn't really have anything.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: So it really, you know, eased up my own motherhood angst quite a bit, and then realizing my children are coming from different places.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: I did not try to type my children until they were ready for that in their late 20s, even though I I mean I was internally sometimes wondering.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: And then now with my children, they're all grown, and it's a delight to see that they're most you know, they're all and spouses in their sweet spots for who they are.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: And I don't see it as, oh, that my son is good at this because he is eight, or my daughter's good at this because he's one.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: I see it as they just are remarkable human beings, and isn't it great that they are in work that um highlights their strengths?
15:09
SPEAKER_01: So that's great.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And then as a grandma, I'm just having fun.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: I just love I just love on all of them.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's oh, that's so good.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I can only imagine that would be so rewarding.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: And I used to joke when the kids, especially were little, oh, being a grandparent is the reward for not killing your children when they're younger.
15:35
unknown: That's true, yeah.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: So and I've always loved babysitting so and like watching other people's kids, whatever reason, it's brought me joy.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: And so I've decided already, oh, I'm gonna love being a grandma because I can enjoy them and help out, and then here you go.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I've done my responsibility, yeah.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: And I can, you know, all we have 11 and they range from age 20 to five.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: And I just look at them with such delight, and they're all unique and they're on their own person, and they just each of them just brings me great joy.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: And someone asked me once, who's your favorite?
16:14
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, whoever I'm with, whichever one I'm with, is my favorite in that moment.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: And it's that is good.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is so good.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, what I hear the threat through all of this is that you've lost some of your angst, the things, understanding what it was that was creating the turmoil, the emotional spiral.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: I usually call it with my clients, right?
16:40
SPEAKER_00: When we can name it and identify it, we can it loses some of its power over us.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: And it's hold on the distraction or the rumination or the the bodily paralyzation that we could find ourselves in, where you can go, oh their strife is creating that angst in me.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: But while it's valid, it doesn't, I don't have to stay there.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: And I can just be okay, kids are going to be kids.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: We can create peace, we can be a pre-peacemaker instead of trying to wish it, whatever that negative thing is, wish it away, grit our teeth, and hope it just disappears.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: So good, Amy.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think as a nine, for me, it was coming to more clarity of what my calling and my significance and my value is.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: So thus I have two books out there.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what a shocking surprise.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, but when I got when I became clear on what I'm passionate about, what I have to say, then then I can really be productive and I can let go of all those distractions and not be so drawn here, there, and everywhere by everyone else.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: I can say, nope, sorry, I can't do that.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Even though I still fall into trying to do it all for people.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, don't we all?
18:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, especially as you identify a mom of four kids with spouses and 11 grandkids, it's a lot in itself.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: I I would like to know.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm married to nine and I do coach a lot of nines and being able to not just make a list, but actually work from the list from top to bottom, essentially prioritizing, right?
18:26
SPEAKER_00: So it's not doing the thing of the path of least resistance, but doing the things that count and matter.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any secrets or inspiration for my nines or maybe even other types who struggle with doing things and the right priority for them?
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, what was helpful for me to realize was that setting priorities creates conflict, internal conflict, because there's a story going on, like, well, if I choose that, this is going to affect people this way, or this conflicts with this priority, conflicts with this priority.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: And so there's this internal story going on that creates a conflict, internal.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: And I and I don't think people realize how much internal conflict nines deal with.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so sorting that out and then saying what's most important to me is a big question, and not worry about how it's affecting everybody else, even though you don't want to be cold hearted and say, well, heck with you, I'm just gonna move forward, which we probably would never do.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: No to also stand our ground and say, no, this is really important to me and it matters, and I matter.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: And so it was helpful just to identify that it feels like a conflict to set priorities.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: It again, it goes back to being able to name the thing is is really powerful for you.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: And I believe that we utilize both wings.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm just kind of curious.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you rely heavily more on the one wing or the eight-wing?
20:04
SPEAKER_00: What do you see that?
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Definitely the one wing.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: Do you see that as a product of nurture or just nature?
20:14
SPEAKER_00: That's always been what you've been more familiar with.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's a good question.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: I think it's more nature because I wasn't raised in a demanding household that demanded perfection or made me line up, you know, and I felt like I had to be that way.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: I think it's just I like being responsible.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: I like getting things done and doing it well.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: And I like things to be done right.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I will step in, but the internal story is oh, it would be really perfect to have this ideal situation.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's not worth the effort.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: So I'll back off.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: It's too much work.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not gonna put my all my energy into that.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Now, when I'm doing like when I was writing the book, I was very focused on every word matters, the way I say this matters, my perfection.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: I wanted it to be perfect, but not out of a drive to try to prove something, but just because I wanted it to really be excellent enough.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: So to be really good.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: I would imagine too that um there would be an element where it could either conflict or get along really well with your Enneagram three husband.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Where have you find that found that to play out?
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes it can be a conflict in the sense that the threes will take the shortcuts, the ones will see that path and want to follow it step by step.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Have you guys ever had to work through some of those struggles?
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, the the thing, yes, the thing that comes up over and over.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: This is one of our first fights during marriage, um, that we were both in college still.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: So we were really young, and I had a term paper to write, and the professor said at least seven, you know, references.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And I would have seven, and I always got my papers in on time.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: Always.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: But Jeff would go to every single library in the city to try to research the paper.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And his would be, and it would drive me crazy.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: It would be two weeks late, but it had to be excellent and successful.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: And you know, he wanted it to be really good.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: And he was usually into pretty, you know, topics that took a lot of thought and research.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: So it would drive me crazy that he turned the paper in late.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And he still is, you know, now he's working on a paper.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: It's taking him forever.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, why is this taking so long?
22:38
SPEAKER_01: Not that he has a deadline now with a professor, but that really bugged me when he takes too long on things.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: So actually, he's not a shortcut taker.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: He really wanted to be the best.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's it.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of it.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: It wants to be the best paper.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: And so that paper he turned in two weeks late, he got a A instead of an A plus, I think.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: Or A minus instead of an A plus because it was late, but that didn't bother him.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: He just wanted it to be the best paper he could possibly write.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: So that's that is funny.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: I love that story.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you I remember you mentioning how young that you guys got married, and just uh it's just such a good uh just testament to the hard work that goes into marriage and that you've stuck with it.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: I I in fact you even alluded to subtypes um during the summit on Tuesday was our marriage day.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: And I ended up having Suzanne Staville, Hillary McCaskey, and then I also even talked about subtypes and just the the invitation there to understand ourselves at another layer is so, so helpful.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: But uh, Suzanne talked about being married and still being in love and supporting one another for such a long time.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I I'd be kind of curious, and I I know it didn't necessarily ask this before, but understanding each other, letting go of wanting to fix each other.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: What else?
24:03
SPEAKER_00: What else has been uh a unifying factor that's really kept you guys in the game?
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Because it is hard work.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: It's not just, it doesn't just happen.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say one of the hallmarks of our marriage is that we have both worked on our own wholeness.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that we have um not looked to the other person to fill in all our needs, but to pay attention.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: And we've been in an environment that encouraged that.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: It's not always encouraged in another work environment.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: So we've been very grateful that that was encouraged.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: So we did a lot of hard work, our own hard work.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I bring that up, not necessarily personally in my new book, the beyond the Enneagram, is that there's a journey of being healed and being whole that God wants us to is inviting us to be on.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: And it takes work and courage and willingness and looking at old stuff and letting God heal that, because you we all come into marriage with all kinds of baggage and all kinds of stuff and beliefs and narratives, and so to come together and you know it can create a lot of conflict when those clash with each other.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and so Jeff and I have, and I really respect that about him.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: That's not always what a three would choose to do for sure, but he has he has embarked on that personal journey as well as I, me.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really a wonderful thing.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: And we respect each other a lot for who we are and what we offer in the world, and we support each other as best we can.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we're on parallel tracks, but we're we're not separate, you know, we're on doing that together.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: So good, such good wisdom.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: And to your point, the book, your subtitle of the book is an invitation to experience a more centered life with God.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: So tell me more about that.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: I I saw a funny thing recently from John A.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Cuff that exhorted authors or wannabe authors about not feeling like you have to pack the whole book in the subtitle to, you know, just it was part of the journey, part of the process, right?
26:15
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: So just tell me a little bit more and and how that does capture the heart of the book or what you're offering through the material.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I started to um as I was, you know, pondering book two when I was given the opportunity, is is um there's more to life, there's more answers than what the Enneagram offers.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: It has its limitations, and I was starting to experience that and see that more and more in people's confusion and trying to fit themselves into this construct of just the Enneagram must explain everything.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: And it really doesn't.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful tool.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I um and I love the word invitation from God because and so, as part of the book and in my journey towards trying to express what I was um wanting to express in this book, I created a new picture, a new paradigm that the Enneagram fits in, but the arrows go to the middle.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And it's I think it's a more descriptive way of our personal journey that God is always drawing us to a more centered life, to that life of union with God, God the Creator, God the Christ, God the companion and the spirit, and that there's a relationship there, and that God is drawing us all the time, whether we know it or not, to that place, to the centered place.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: I put the spiritual intelligence because I think that's one thing that's missing on the Enneagram, is that we have a spiritual intelligence.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: We have a knowing that's deeper than our head, heart, and gut, and more expansive than our head, heart, and gut.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: And that so I put the spirit in the middle of the Enneagram picture drawing and that God and arrows toward the middle, not around the circle.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: So um it's kind of bold, kind of um, you know, like is this gonna be, you know, okay?
28:16
SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't eliminate the Enneagram being part of that journey.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm not moving away from it, but we do need to have see how the Enneagram fits in the bigger story of our lives that we are being invited to experience that's a big word, too.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Not just to know or understand, but to really experience what it's like to be in relationship with God in our everyday lives.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: How is God with us?
28:46
SPEAKER_01: How are we with God?
28:48
SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's what people are longing for.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: That's why there's so many disillusionments in those who have been in church or been raised in the church, and you just hear them all the time going, eh, no, I'm out of here.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: And because the the invitation to actually experience God has, you know, I don't know, I won't judge it and say that's been missing in the teaching, but it's not just about understanding the scriptures or understanding what we should do as a good Christian Jesus follower, but really to experience God speak to us and us being known by God, we know God, and being guided by the Spirit.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a beautiful thing.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's what the book is about.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Um unpacking that a little bit more or a lot bit more.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot bit more for sure.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: I I think this is so good.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: I think there is a move.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: I I sense it in my conversations, and it just also seems to be those who are gospel centered in our and in a share-like-minded community, that is the thing of going, the Enneagram isn't the end all be-all.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: It is part of our story.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: It helps us explain some of the narratives that we've been believing, the experience that we have or a unique perspective.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: But I know that in my after coaching hundreds of people, it's the spiritual direction piece is like 80% of it, you know, where I'm really grateful I have this tool and that we can share this common communication and the resources that I've created around it.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: And it's on a paper, but that is so one-dimensional where the spirit breathes into it, joins our sessions, and there's no way that is just so not just that.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: It it's it's so much bigger where we can begin to have conversation around the places that we're stuck that are just beyond even what you said, where we stuck in the head, heart, or gut.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: That's just part of it.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and ultimately it's only the Lord who can set us free.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Then you Graham amplifies the light, right?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: But it's Christ who brings true freedom for all of us in and all.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: I love the word freedom, and that's you know, that that Jesus said, I came to set you free.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: And we're we can be free from all those narratives and wounds and broken places.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: God, I I have to believe that's the work that God's about and inviting us to is a wholeness.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: And when I say centered life, I I mean living from that center place with God in our spirit and being whole.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I love your whole-hearted word, you know, but and whole-bodied, whole mind that God, you know, is inviting us to experience that.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that's you know, to that point, that's where the word simply comes in, where we're not striving and exhausting ourselves to better ourselves or to have it all figured out, but going into those rhythms of grace that bring about that wholeness, that bring about that centered um experience that we can in him that we could try to do it and create all the constructs to make it just so, and they're gonna fail us ultimately.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: For certainly bring a lot of exhaustion.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and disappointment.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and disappointment.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, I am going to have us come back to just your last piece of wisdom and advice, but before you share that, because our time is going by way too quickly.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: I know it always does.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: We could talk for a long time.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: We could, we could.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel I just I think I said this before, like, oh, I just feel like a kindred spirit or that you are a kindred spirit, right?
32:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I can't believe it because we are here we are, we're just days before your book gets into our hands.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: And um, you might, if you're hearing this right when it releases, you might still be able to pre-order it.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: So for my friends listening, um, write that right now and as it releases, then go pre-order the book and then you could have in your hands on what you said October 18th, 18th.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's a Tuesday.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: That's when the books release.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're in the last quarter of the year, which I'm sure like you've been in book warp.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so time has just gone on, and I feel that way for me too.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: So we have three holidays coming up.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Now, one of them I don't really like to call a holiday, but I have some friends who like to call it a holiday.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: So we have Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious to know what's your favorite?
33:27
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
33:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're just gonna start having a conversation because it's that time of year.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: That's a great question, Amy.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate that.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I look forward to Christmas.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: We moved two years ago to be closer to our four kids and their 11 children.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: And so two years ago during COVID, they couldn't take Santa pictures.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: And so our son-in-law suggested that maybe they buy a Santa suit for my husband.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: And then I thought, well, I don't want to be left out of this.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: So I made a Mrs.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Santa Claus outfit.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: So we had a Santa day at our house, and now it's an annual event, you know, and so we dress up and do cookies and make ornaments, and the kids are always running around trying to convince Santa that he's really poppy.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: So and so it's become this big, you know, they're old enough to know that it's just poppy, obviously.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's a highlight, and it really does.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: We do it really early on in December, so it really sets me up to enjoy Christmas.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Up in the past, I didn't enjoy so much, especially when we were away from our kids.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: It's like, what's the point of putting up a Christmas tree and not having anybody over?
34:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, not and so now it's just fun to enjoy the season with them.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: So that is precious.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: I have all sorts of questions that I want to ask you, but that's why I say rapid fire.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: So it helps me stick to it.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: But I love that.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I love that depiction of you guys.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: What a beautiful experience.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: What a what a blessing to your kids and grandkids.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Love it so much.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: I love that you made your put together a Mrs.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Clause outfit is perfect.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pretty cute.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, as the year, as we wrap up, oftentimes it's a great opportunity to look past to the past, look backward and go, and that's a little bit easier.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a nine superpower, they're past oriented.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: So it might be easy for you.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: What are you most grateful for?
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe the biggest, hardest thing would be like, okay, choosing a top pick or a top couple things.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: What as reflect, what is it that stands out to you this year?
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Last year.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: I think it's finishing the book.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: I bet.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and sensing just God's spirit guiding me to write and to present what he called me to present.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: And I'm most grateful for my husband who supported me along there that way, and just how God has carried us, carried me.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, grateful for 50 years of marriage and um the good life we've had together.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: Not easy life.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: It's not been perfect, it's been hard at times, but we've had a good life together, and I'm grateful.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful for that.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful for him.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: I think it's often the hard things that help us appreciate the good if we're willing to look for it and like, oh yeah, yeah, this this simple mundane thing is actually such a huge blessing.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: So um, I love it.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm kind of curious to know what your favorite Christmas carol is.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: I think it'll be fun to pull the audience a little bit closer to the holidays and find out, you know, if there's any correlation.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: But how about for you?
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's Angels We Have Heard and High.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the name because isn't that where the you know they because it's such a great memory for me because I remember being five years old.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: I was in between both of my parents at church on Christmas Eve, and I was standing on the pew in between them, and they had the hymnal open, and I could read the words like they were singing this song that I'd heard, but I could actually read the hymnal.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: And there's just that has always just stuck with me as my favorite carol.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: Every time I hear it, I have that sweet memory of standing between my parents and reading and singing with them in church on Christmas Eve.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: What's even better than the song?
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Because that's a great carol, but the the memory associated with it.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: And as I told you, I'm in the basement of my brother's home right now because I am down in Salem, Oregon with my 101-year-old dad.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Are you serious?
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he's still sharp as attack and healthy, but my brother and his wife needed to be gone.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: So I always come and just keep my eyes on my dad and help him.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, but he doesn't need much help, he just needs to be fed, you know, needs meals.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: And so that's amazing.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: That's the dad I was standing next to when I was five years old.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: So wow, how incredible.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just, you know, it's sadly becoming rarer and rarer to have clients who have that great relationship with their parents.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, my theory is when we have that mother or father wound, that's oftentimes why we need a little extra help.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, that orphan spirit needs some tending to and that care.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: And when a client does come or a friend or or like you, and just sharing about that great relationship, it gives me such hope that I as a parent can build that legacy with my kids and they'll be singing our praises of the good memories, not just the bad ones.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Not all the reasons why they need to go to therapy, but the good things um like that and and wanting to care for us in our older age.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: I I just I imagine that many of my friends are going to draw some encouragement and vision um for living that kind of life and leaving that kind of legacy.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: It's it's huge.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: So um we can do that.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: We have that.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: I I think that's the gift of self-awareness, this amazing resource that we have.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: And we're able to do that and tend to our souls in a in a more healthier way.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, just just whether we've had a good legacy or not, to be able to leave that legacy, what a gift we have.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh, a great invitation, as you will.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, on that note, any last thoughts or wisdom that you would like to share today to me, to our friends who are listening.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: There's a plethora.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And I know, like you said, we could be here for hours, but um, any last thoughts, even if it's about the book and something you really want us to make sure that we get um from the words that you labored with the Holy Spirit to get on paper for us.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: I well, I always want to encourage people to take the time, the intentional time, to reflect, to pause, to step back, and to have the courage to be self-aware, like you just said, and to allow the things that are keeping us held back or paralyzed or stuck, to ask the question, like, why where's that coming from?
40:25
SPEAKER_01: And Lord, heal it, Lord, shepherd that, shepherd me in this journey, just to believe that God is drawing you to this great destiny of freedom and to be all that God created you to be, and it's not a just necessarily a straight path journey that's easy, but to believe that God is that's God's heart and God's desire for you to live fully and freely as you were designed to live.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, Marilyn, thank you so much for this conversation, for gifting us with your time.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm just I know that your book is going to have great impact, and I'm just excited to see the good fruit of it.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Amy.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: It's great to be with you, and I appreciate all the things we've talked about.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: The blessings to you and your work too.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: So, what was your main takeaway from this conversation?
41:19
SPEAKER_00: I would love to invite you to take a minute and reflect on what you just heard today.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: There's so much goodness, but maybe there's one thing that you can apply to your life or tuck in your back pocket and pull out for later.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: I loved it when Marilyn mentioned that her favorite grandchild is simply the one that she is with in that moment.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: It's a testimony to her ability to be present and enjoy with what is in front of her and who is with her.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I like to talk about orientation to time with the Enneagram, usually with my clients one-on-one, because we do have a natural tendency with time, whether future, past, or present, but we also have an ability to learn from others and expand our natural tendency, even if it's opposite of us.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: We can learn this by observing what others do, especially those who well, maybe who are future oriented and were past, or they're past oriented and we're future oriented.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: And most of all, we all can be invited in to be more present, more present and attuned to those that we love and those that we want to give the gift of our presence to.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Isn't it awesome how God has wired us so uniquely and for us to learn from one another?
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Marilyn as an Enneagram9 would typically be drawn to think about the past, but she does show us such healthy ways of living and how to use skills to be in the present moment.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: If you love this conversation, friend, would you give me the gift of a heartfelt review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this episode?
43:07
SPEAKER_00: It really does encourage others to check out the show or and be blessed by all of the content that is here.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: So thank you in advance.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's leaving a five-star review or just a happy positive comment or even sharing with your friends, it really is valuable to me.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Maybe even more than you understand.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: Now, next week we're continuing our wholehearted celebration season here in the last quarter.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Really, the you know, last three months are all holiday months here.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: But before we get too seasonal, I have a special well, it's a very unique podcast episode.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: It's a recording of my one-on-one coaching session with Beth McCord, who's also known as your Enneagram coach.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: That's right, I got over an hour of one-on-one coaching time with the one and only Beth McCord.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: It was really special.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Their team actually reached out to a few of us coaches who have been through the coaching process who coach others on a regular basis and said, Hey, we want to give you an opportunity to be coached and to share what the process is like with others.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: So I apparently was the first one to volunteer for this.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I was thinking at the time.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: It sounded fun to me, and I always love talking to Beth.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: So I volunteered and on an Instagram live early in October of this year, we talked for an hour and 10 minutes, and she asked me questions about me, and it was so different to be in the other seat.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: It's it's been a while since I've had official Enneagram coaching.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: I work with a counselor on a regular basis and other coaches in the business world, but getting the Enneagram coaching with their new EIP Enneagram internal profile was a whole different experience.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, of course, there was moments that were heartfelt and deep and tearful.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: There was also joyful moments.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought it would be really fun to share with you.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: I share some things that I've never really shared with anyone.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what I was thinking in some measure because here I am on social media sharing these things, but I also just felt like it was what the Lord was asking me to do, to give that gift of vulnerability to others and to maybe even help someone like you see what it's like to go through the coaching process, how powerful it is, how scary it isn't, and the beauty that can come from it.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I'll be sharing that conversation.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: They gave me permission to do all the things we needed to do to finesse it and make it a podcast episode, along with a special invite about, well, if you've considered becoming an Enneagram coach like me and you've been curious about that process, I'll be sharing a little bit more about that next week and in the coming weeks, whether it's an email or here on the podcast.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: So until next time, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.