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Women Friendships, the Wounding and the Healing with Alyse and Robyn · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it as adults, it seems like friendships are so much harder to make?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: There is something about as adults meeting new people and then you know making the effort to connect to get to know each other.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And not everybody is going to be on the same page politically, or not everybody's going to be on the same page with alcohol.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's all of those differences that kind of create this like difficulty, I think.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: And also I think once your life is full, it's like hard to like add something else into your life.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then especially like, I think with women if who are married and have kids, like they automatically feel like they have to put all of that stuff first.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breastwork expert and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: We'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to go deep.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, we're here in the flesh.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Together.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: We were thinking about it's been since like October of 2023.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: 2023 that we've been together in the flesh.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I said when we're in the etheric all the time.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it feels like we are together.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like weird to think that we weren't.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I was reflecting because like last time I was here, I stayed in that room and I was reflecting on like the version of me that stayed in that room before was like so different.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So many things, the way that I feel in my body, like who I am.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't even know that version of me in 2023.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have to agree because you know, so much has transpired since then with all of the stuff that went on that we talked about in Bewitched a year ago.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you believe that's been a year ago?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's like over a year ago.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a year that we like launched it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we started recording that in January of 2025 and launched it in February.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think right around this time was last year was kind of the arc of it.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think last week was the week that I did the second half of my saga.
• 2:50
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like everybody was like, there was a cliffhanger.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Cliffhanger.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Today, you guys, welcome back to the podcast, first of all.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And Elise and I were talking about like what do we want to do since we're together.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really great place to start is how are we different?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: All those years ago.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the bigger theme today is about friendship.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there are so many pieces to this.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was having this moment last night in the Uber.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I flew in yesterday and came here.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have another friend that lives in Phoenix area that I wanted to see.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And like basically last night seemed like the best night to go see her.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I get in an Uber and I'm in this like 40-minute Uber ride.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like having this just like moment of like gratitude for the fact that, like, you know, I got to fly out to Arizona and like spend time with like my best friends.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And just like the gratitude for like friendship and the friendships I built over the years.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like my friend Tracy that I went to see last night, like when I lived in Tucson, she was like my best friend.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And like I have so much gratitude for her because like when I broke up with Johnny, my boyfriend in Tucson, Johnny, her and Blake, her and her husband, like I always say, like they were like my parents, like they took care of me.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like every time they were going out to eat, they're like, Elise, come with us.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like they would take me everywhere.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would just like be at their house.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that was before they had kids too.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So like I was so grateful because I didn't have my family.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like such a hard time for me.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the moments that like build these like bonds, you know what I mean?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like we were close friends before that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: But just like when someone like really walks you through something really challenging, like I always will have such gratitude for her and for Blake.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like feeling that like driving over there on the Uber.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was just feeling all this gratitude for like all of these like really strong friendships that I have.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Then I was just really thinking about what women friendships are and why they're hard.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And why there's like all these fucking reality TV shows about them.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but they're all all of the reality TV shows really highlight the worst.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like the female friendship.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And like why people don't get into friendships or don't let people get close to them.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And also like why it's so important.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like those are the directions we want to go today is like, what is the wounding that makes female friendships hard?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: But like, why also are they like pretty much the most important thing?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you have sisters too, and like I don't have sisters, but I always say my friend Jen, I'm gonna crack because I love my friends so much.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: My friend Jen, like when I met her, she like showed me what it was like to be a sister.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because she has three two sisters, and she would be like, Do you want to go to Target with me?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, What?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what that's what sisters do, and like we were roommates for a little bit, and I just like went with it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I'm gonna go with Jen to Target, or I'm gonna drive to Jersey with her to like do her errands or whatever.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, oh, this is what like sisters are, but then like you just become close and you just would like tell them anything, and like you just like understand each other, and like I feel like that is more important than like a romantic relationship in some ways, yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: In some ways, I was thinking about 2023 was really a pivotal time for for me as well.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, when I met you, it was it like in 2021.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think we were in a mastermind together.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean, I don't know about you, but I have certain people like I can just pick and know.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're gonna be friends, yeah.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And do you remember the first time we met?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was February of like 2022, I think.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, 2023, because then we did the oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that was when I came out for um the gem show.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was like, we're meeting, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so we met, and it was like, of course.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things I so appreciate about you is that you always call me back.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: You always call me back.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: My sisters don't always call me back.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or they say they're gonna call me back, and it's like seven days later, and they're like, Well, you know, and we understand that, and it's nothing that big about my sisters.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: But with you, you're my friend who I just know if I call you, you're gonna call me back.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that level of like, I think, commitment to the friendship that I just value so much.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's also like the bond, too, because it's like there's a reason why I'm gonna call you back because like I know there's something we have to talk about.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're calling me, there's probably something we have to talk about for if I'm calling you because there's something we have to talk about.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I don't know what it is that I'm calling you for, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'll know like when I get on the phone.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I always call you when I'm on my way to the gym.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've got 20 minutes of uninterrupted time where I'm like, okay, this is where we can catch up, or yeah, if there's something that we need to process or whatever.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to have us think back.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: What's your earliest memory of friendship?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a really good question.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think like remembering my there was like this girl, Lauren, who lived on my street.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I probably played with her like the most a lot because she lived on my street.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: But then, like in first grade, I also have like my one friend that I met in first grade.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: She's still my friend.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: What's her name?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Lindsay.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And also Penny.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Penny and I met.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have my best friend from first grade was Penny too.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Penny Kinney.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Penny was the cutest and she had little bangs and she looked like an angel, and she had she walked around on tiptoes.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: She eventually had to have surgery.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, my friend Greta used to walk around on tiptoes.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Did she have to also have surgery?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like Penny had to have surgery to fix her acuase or whatever.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing that I admired about my friends when I was in elementary school is that they were so quiet.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so like me.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine me like being like seven?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, why were they so quiet?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but they were so quiet.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I valued that so much because I was always so like loud and messy and like tall.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And Penny was tiny and sweet.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she was just so genuinely nice, yeah, and kind.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: My group of friends that I like was friends with through like middle school and high school.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some of us were friends then, but like Penny and I didn't become friends till like later on.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: But we all went to school together.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I do have like a lot of friends that I've known for like decades.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and like when you have friends that have walked you through every season of life, like my friend Ed, who I'm going to see in Tucson after this, like he's literally known well, really well, every single one of my boyfriends.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like close connection with all of them, just because he's been my friend for so long.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like cool to have somebody that's literally they've seen you through all of that, right?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and he's not a girl, but you know what I mean.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those people but it's a shared history and it's a shared understanding of your life, yeah, and like what has gotten you to this point, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that like for me, well, and and I always equate it back to like when I was a school counselor and like watching like younger kids navigate friendships and like the reasons why they would be like, We're not friends anymore.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, you know, and I would always be like, Well, that's not what friends do.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're a friend, if you disagree, you're allowed to disagree, but then you can like make up and maybe you take some time apart, but then you can come back together, you forgive each other, you come out on the other side, you talk it out, and like that's what builds a friendship is like being able to like get through those hard times.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not that they understood that, but I think they probably took something away from that.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I do think there's like value in that because I think that certain people, because of like their childhood or whatever, whenever they have a conflict, their like first go-to is to just be like, okay, I'm done with this.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not what builds a friendship.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of my longtime friends, we have had something that happened that was like a conflict that we like came out on the other side.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: All of that.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, have we had a conflict?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: But there are those that one meme that the way to keep us together is to have something shared that we both hate.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, and we agree on that.
• 11:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Which we have a lot of things that annoy the shit out of us.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So my best friend in first grade was Penny.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, kindergarten, actually.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Penny Kinney, and I'm still Facebook friends with her.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Birthday is November 22nd, I'll never forget.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't it funny how you have everyone's phone numbers and like birthdays memories?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I could probably call hers up.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Then Angel and Carrie were my best friends in elementary school.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a time when Charlie's Angels was very popular.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we would play Charlie's Angels.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I always had to be Sabrina.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, I don't know Charlie's Angels.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, Charlie's Angels, there's three.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry that you're a millennial.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's sad that you're I'm an ex-ennial.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, you're right.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you're more on the genetic side.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, Charlie's Angels, there's three little girls who went to the police academy, and then they go and work for Charlie, and they're the angels that solve all the mysteries.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but which one so okay, so there's the original was Sparrow Fawcett.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And Kate Jackson was dark haired, and then um Jacqueline Smith.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Those were the original three.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when Carrie, Angel and I played, Angel always got to be Kelly, who was played by Jacqueline Smith, and Carrie, who taught me how to curl my hair when I was eight, because I didn't know I didn't have any big sisters.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So she taught that to me.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: She always got to be Jill, who was played by Pharaoh, of course.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I always had to be Sabrina.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And Sabrina was kind of the more, I suppose, intellectual.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: She had brown hair.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: She was very serious looking.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw Angel and Carrie at our class reunion recently.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Carrie, why did I always have to be Sabrina?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: She said, because you were the smart one.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, now I will take that.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: But when I'm like eight, maybe not so much.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what I noticed for people is that a lot of people don't stay in touch with those like childhood friends.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not bad because I feel like you do grow and evolve, and sometimes it doesn't make sense.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and even like my friends from that age, like we see each other probably like once or twice a year or whatever.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like we talk like all the time, but like when we do see each other, it's like no time to pass.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that one of the things I wanted to talk about is the stuff that happens early on or like in middle school that traumatizes us around friendships, around being left out, or kind of like the you know, having that one like the Regina George from Mean Girls.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's where my yeah, so the the lost the leader of the mean girl, yeah.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And like who kind of dictates who everybody should like and not like, and all these dynamics that I think end up really like scarring people.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I know for me, middle school is really hard, but me being a school counselor and working with middle school kids really helped me to heal.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a totally accurate.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was like being able to help kids for so long in middle school.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like it really resolved so much stuff from that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad I didn't have to repeat.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you know what though?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: When I was the psychologist for the Herberger Academy, guess what?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: They were all middle school.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: But they were all smart kids, and I got to see a different side of social lives when you put a bunch of smart kids in the same place, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: As nerdy as we are, like in the outside world when everyone's together, everyone looks pretty normal.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, and also I think like those ecosystems will still create the same like roles, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So can we talk about our middle school-ish traumas?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: What was yours?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's one?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, I think what happened for me is there was like this huge group of us that were all friends in elementary school.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then once we kind of got into middle school, it gradually changed where like people just kind of like gradually broke apart, especially after like we all had like our bar and bad mitzvahs, like because we all were kind of still together then.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But then after that, I feel like in eighth grade, it was like this like split.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the rite of passage, and then everybody goes their separate.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there was my group was more like we became kind of grungy, like punk rock, more like fuck the establishment type of people.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then like the other side was just kind of more like straight laced a little bit.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that was actually hard for me because it it kind of made me feel like kind of like like, why does it have to be that way?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because there were still like some girls from the other group that like they were my really good friends, but then you know, gradually we kind of like broke apart.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like those kind of things made me feel so uncomfortable because I would always be like, Well, why can't I be friends with them?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt like I couldn't be friends with them because then it would be like wrong or something, right?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because they didn't wear Doc Martin's and flannel shirts.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then like I feel like there was a lot of like stuff that was weird for me around.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when I went to middle school, I kind of came from this part of town that was more like it wasn't like wealthy at all.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was more like, I guess, middle to upper middle class, where like there was like the other side of town that was like kids who lived in apartments or whatever, you know, and like those kids, we all went to middle school together, and like some of the girls, they were like having sex already.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: It like made me feel so like insecure.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember also the other thing that was really hard for me in middle school was like I was the last one to get my period.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was the last one to like go through puberty, or like I'm still waiting for my boobs to come.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I think my boobs have finally like hit their stride now that I'm like in my 40s, but like I was always so insecure about not having developed.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was so hard for me.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember just feeling totally like insecure about that.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then also just feeling constantly afraid that somebody is going to be mad at me because somebody's gonna like turn on somebody and somebody's gonna get into like a fight and like they're gonna go against me or something.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like those dynamics, I feel like were very challenged.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was really challenging.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know how to stand up for myself, right?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like at all.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, were you somebody who like I know that you're less likely to rock the boat and more likely to kind of smooth things over?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I feel like if somebody was like, Oh, well, you don't agree with that, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like you should back this person up or stand up for this or whatever, and I would be like, No, I felt really uncomfortable with all that stuff because I didn't like to like have conflict with people.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like confrontation, and it was just like a very confusing time.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there was like so much like competition of girls, and I don't know, it was very competition, comparison, yeah, criticism, like those big things were, especially in middle school, such a just a way of moving through the world.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of like the survival of the fittest or something.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like Lord of the Flies.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it felt very like cutthroat and very not nurturing, not safe, not supportive.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of, I feel like, made me develop like a really hard shell.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So did you become kind of like a tough girl?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not tough in the way where I was like gonna like fight people, but tough in the way where I was like too cool for school.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I got into punk rock because I was like, fuck the establishment, like this is fucked up.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: What the fuck is going on here?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Were you a pussy riot fan or a pussy riot band?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, I wasn't into like that kind of punk rock, really.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a little bit, but yeah, I feel like that's what resonated with me because I was like so I just developed this like hard exterior.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was like anger.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it was like that teenage angst, yeah, you know.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting because my dad used to teach, he used to be a counselor, middle school.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you told me that.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he said to me one time, he said, Middle schoolers are like amoeba.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Amoeba are single-celled organisms, and the way an amoeba moves is that they have pseudopods and a pseudopod, they all move.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: They all move and like something, and everybody falls behind, like behind that.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was listening to your experience in middle school, I was thinking about how specific my experiences were to having specific memories come up.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like in fifth grade, we all walked to school together.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: I walked to school every day with Angel and her brother David, and yeah, I picked them up.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: They lived above the funeral home down the street, and I'd pick them up and we'd go to Deadwood Elementary.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't remember if it was that day, but for whatever reason, I was late, and all of my little group of friends were on the playground already when I got there.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I walked up to them, like I always did every single day, and I said, Hi all.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I remember exactly what I said.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Hi, all.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they literally stood up and walked away from me.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that is there it is, there it is.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And in hindsight, we can see all the reasons why that would be, but yeah, that was a really informative moment for me because up until that point, like you, we had this big group of people, and after that moment, things just changed for me in terms of like how I related to people.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to Barb about this when I first met her back in grad school because she's an expert in gifted girls.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she explained that in about fourth grade, but especially by fifth grade, kids really start to be able to differentiate like who's smarter and who's different.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whole focus on difference during that time is really marked.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody knows.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So in that moment, I was always tall.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was as tall as I am now, and I weighed fourth grade?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe fifth grade.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are you definitely by seventh grade?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, by seventh grade, I was as tall as I am now, five eight, and I weighed 105 pounds.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And one kid in high school called me a concentration camp reject.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, that's horrible.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Steve.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um my friend Elise is gonna come and boss up on you.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that changed things because from then on, then after that, my family moved not long within about a year afterwards.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I met my two best friends, Anne and Steph, who we're still friends with.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I always made sure I had just a couple of really good friends.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what happened.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what happened with me too, once we got into like in middle school and high school, it was you know, like four or five of us.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then there'd always be like those like ancillary people or whatever.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was really just wasn't the same.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like there was always just this for me, like fear of like somebody is gonna be mad at me.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: For something I didn't know that I did or didn't do.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I feel like there was all this always this thing too of like being left out.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: If my friends who were involved in this listen to this, I love you guys, but this was something that was like so traumatizing for me.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it was in ninth grade, so it wasn't middle school.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when we got into high school, there was like this group of really cool punk rock kids that were like older that like we all like wanted to be friends with.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there was like me and my two other friends that we were we would like hang out all the time, like in middle school, and we would sleep at each other's houses, and we were like super, super close.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, somehow they got invited to the party of these cool punk rock kids, and I didn't.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they like, for whatever reason, I guess they like didn't want me to feel bad, but they didn't tell me.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: They basically like invited me over and then just like left for the party, and then like my friend's mom had to like drive me home.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember it was like Saturday night, and then I was just like home with my parents.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember, do you remember um the box?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, was that what that was called?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: The box.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's not MTV, but they would play like videos and then you could pay.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that what it was called?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: The box.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was like you could then you could call in and pay and you could like tell them what to play.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's very fancy.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in South Dakota, we didn't have that.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it was it's like a channel.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a channel.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody tell me.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I remember I was just like sitting there and watching like really bad videos on that, and I was like so sad.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: But like I was the type I never would have like gotten mad at them because that's just not how I was.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: But it was just that feeling of like being left out like that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think like I feel like that burns a hole in your soul, right?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I feel like those are the reasons why people get so burned in friendships, or they get mad about like stupid stuff, you know, because it's like it's touching that wound of like being left out or feeling excluded.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, why is this person getting mad at me for like not inviting them to like happy hour or something?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's like, yeah, it's that, you know, and I feel like that's what then drives these stupid fights that women have, which Bravo has capitalized on.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, micro-traumas sometimes, major traumas other times around being included, being excluded, in-group, out-group, that kind of thing.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then at some point, I think that there can be a shift to beginning to heal that those early experiences.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody is going to heal them at the same time or anything like that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a turning point for you when things kind of shifted?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what I kind of see and what I observed when I was a counselor is when you're in middle school and even like early high school, like everything seems like such a big deal.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the littlest thing seems like the biggest thing.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I feel like that kind of wanes when you get into like junior or senior year, you realize that, oh, I'm like gonna go to college and like this is like stupid kind of a thing.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so you stop making all of these little things into such a big deal.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think at that time you kind of are more like laid back and you just kind of want to have fun.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like that's kind of the turning point for that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that in terms of friendships, I feel like there's certain people that for whatever reason they might be like sort of friends with everybody, but not like really close friends with anybody.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I often wonder like what constitutes that type of personality versus like the personality who is really close with people.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can answer that question from a personality perspective.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we look at extroversion, when we look at specifically gregariousness, how people who are gregarious are the kind of the more the merrier and the includers and the gatherers, right?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are some who on the opposite end of the spectrum are going to be much more, much more comfortable in smaller groups, in you know, one-on-one.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always say, you know, are you gonna be in the center of the room at a clock party or are you gonna be like under a table reading a book?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like gonna be the one that's like in the bathroom, chatting it up with all the people.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or doing yeah, or doing whatever like you're not supposed to be doing in the real party.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in like the little room doing it.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's my yeah, that's my I always learn about you guys is that that was where all the fun was.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was always a good lookout.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, okay.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all right.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't ever partake, but I would just look out for other yeah, that was like my whole MO.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm a Scorpio, like I want to know what's going on in the back room, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so I think that so it's the gregariousness piece of the personality that sort of guides how people are gonna show up in relationships later.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think it depends, like for me, I think it it also depends on like the crowd because there could be certain crowds that like I would feel like I would be more like the center of the party versus like other crowds, I feel like I would be more on the periphery, like it just depends on the vibe, too.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's also a factor.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing I was thinking about too, because one of my clients and I were talking about we were talking about friendships, and I asked her, and it occurred to me that I hadn't asked her this question before, but I asked her, What kind of friendships did your mom have?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And just to see like what that like model was, and she was like, Wow, I never thought of this.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, My mom had a lot of friends, but it seemed like they were all kind of more surface level or whatever.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt that way about my mom too.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And not to say, like, my mom, I guess I can't speak to like exactly her friendships because I wasn't in them.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: However, I went to sleep many a night to the sound of her talking on the phone.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I know what she's like talking about.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the way that my mom's generation, this is no shade to them, but I feel like the way they connected was through like gossiping or talking shit.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that that is a way that people still connect now, and it can be.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying I'm not even saying, like, oh, you should never gossip.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna say that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: But like, if that's the only way of connecting, then that's like it's like a low vibe thing, you know, and that was a lot of what I know I witnessed.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's like the lower tier of like the women connecting, and it can be so much more like high vibe than that, right?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just interesting when when you look at that perspective of what you learned from your mom about friendships and if she had them and were they important and all that stuff.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it like is a model.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think about my mom is always a very social person, she still is.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody knows my mom.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not my model.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: When I would watch her, she's amazing with people.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: She was a teacher, and you know, everybody loved her, and she has good friends, they get together once once a month.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: She calls it the lunch bunch, and they've been getting together for years, yeah.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I watched that growing up, and I never had that, I suppose, lived experience.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ann and Steph and I would do stuff together all the time.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like that core group, and then there were other people around us.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: But when I looked at what my mom was doing and how she was doing her friendships, I could never like figure it out.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it always felt so foreign to me.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I actually think that getting my PhD, believe it or not, actually helped me with friendships because I had to learn all of my counseling skills.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had to learn how to listen, I had to learn how to reflect, how to not interrupt like all of those things that for twice exceptional kid with ADHD, like that stuff is hard.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you think about if you layer the ADHD on top of everything else, which was undiagnosed until grad school, it's like, is it any wonder that I didn't have those kind of social, the socially awkward and difficult experiences that I had?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think I wonder too, like, what constitutes a friendship that is worth keeping?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like when we talk about like when things get hard, people just like walking away, or when you feel that close, like bond with somebody, like what constitutes that?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And is it something that comes from the person's ability to feel that, or is it like the mixture of these two people who have some sort of bond, whether it's like from a past life, or it's just like their frequencies are like aligned, or they have all these like shared experiences.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably all of that, but like that deep connection.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have that with a lot of people, and I have it with people that maybe they're not necessarily in my life anymore, but because we have that at one time, it's like we'll always be yeah, you can still have a conversation with them, or if you needed something from them, you could pick up the phone and call.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or whatever.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it is multifaceted, isn't it?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I also know that for me, doing the work that I've done on myself to really set myself up to feel good in my own skin is the most important thing because, like my friend Ann, I remember the moment.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know Anne picked me.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I remember exactly where we were.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I could feel that.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was just a like, okay, we're gonna be friends.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she just messaged me recently, she's gonna be here in a couple weeks and we're gonna have lunch, right?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: So those kinds of relationships are not like everyday relationships, but they are certainly there's a longevity to them that comes from shared childhood experiences for one.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, shared interests, and shared like deep experiences.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because I even think about some friends.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a friend from college that like our freshman year, we like bonded.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was just because we like did all of these like first things together, like started going to like parties and like lived in the dorm, like had all these like shared experiences, and we would do I never saw anyone do this before.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And like when I saw her do this, I was like, Oh my god.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So every time we would like leave somewhere, like say we went to somebody's dorm room or we went to a party, whatever, after we would leave and shut the door, she would always put her ear up to the door and listen to like what oh my god.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I always was like in awe of that because I would never do that, but I thought it was like so cool because I was like, What are they saying?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wanna, yeah, exactly.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's so funny, yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like when you have like some sort of shared life changing experience or like growth experience, I think that bonds you also.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's like all different ways, but I guess like the biggest question that I wanted to explore too is first of all, why we get into these like weird dynamics with people.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then on the other side of that is like, why is female friendship so important for us to have?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like it's something that, you know, as I work with more and more people, I'm always checking to make sure that like they have that, right?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like it's like one of those key components that is even more important than a relation, like a romantic relationship, because some people are single and that's how they are right now, and that's fun.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: But do they have like these like close connections or people that they feel like they can feel supported by, lean into, call on, have fun with?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: People just need to have fun.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like fun.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I agree with you.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to Michael because I was excited that you were coming.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like, Lisa's my best friend, and then I named out all my best friends, right?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have like my sisters and Leslie and you and um Stephanie Bagby Stone, like you and and Barb and Deanne, like there's a core group, yeah, depending on where I am in the world.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there are my go-tos that are like my like Anna Green Gables, my bosom friends, like the ones who ride or die forever.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, They're my best friends.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And Michael said, Well, aren't I your best friend?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yes.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard with men because I'm not gonna nuance that, right?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: He and I have so much fun together, yeah, right.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And also there is this connection that like you and I have that is unique and distinct from my marriage, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And to have you in the things that I went through a couple of years ago, and when Michael and I were really in a tough spot and everything, it's like having your girlfriends around you so that during the tough times we can process it and we can talk about it and knowing that there's a loyalty there and a a sense of understanding and without judgment.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly for the most part.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, there's always gonna be a little bit more.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I also feel like fun, I think, in jest.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also I think your friends too will like if you really are doing something that's like so crazy, like your friends will tell you.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if not, they're gonna be on your side no matter what.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be like, oh yeah, fuck him.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even though I disagree with you, I'm still on your team.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing about that that um is gonna change that.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that along with what you're asking about why are female friendships so important, why is it as adults, it seems like friendships are so much harder to make?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like we've tried.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I feel like for me, so many of the friendships that I have, not all of them, but so many of them are from childhood or at least like in like my 20s, when like things are just it's just easier to make friends.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I feel like now it's definitely harder.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why though.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think about like I there are women in my neighborhood who I like a lot.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: My next door neighbor just moved in, she's here periodically from Minnesota, and we have gone on a walk together.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to go drink wine with her, but it's Lent, and I gave up wine for Lent, so you know, we'll do that.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: What a bad time for no, you know what she said?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's like my friend next door said, Don't worry about it.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a big deal.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Lent is more important.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you should go to her house and not drink wine.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's all right.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, and this is why you're here.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: But there is something about as adults, meeting new people and then, you know, making the effort to connect to get to know each other.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: And not everybody is gonna be on the same page politically, or not everybody's gonna be on the same page with alcohol.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because there are some people, some people in this neighborhood are like it's eye-watering.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So and yeah, I guess I have a little bit of judgment about that.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that moderation is important.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you know, it's all of those differences that kind of create this like difficulty, I think.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also I think once your life is full, it's like hard to like add something else into your life.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then especially like I think with women if who are married and have kids, like they automatically feel like they have to put all of that stuff first, which is not a good thing.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: But you have do you have some friends who like your daughters are friends?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I've become friends, like closer friends with like some of my Hazel's two friends who live in our neighborhood.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I've become close with our moms.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like not that that would happen with anybody, they also have to be cool.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not like I'm not just gonna be friends, but I've been lucky enough that there is like a group of women I know that like are in my neighborhood that we've been there for a long time, and we all had kids at the same time.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of like knew each other already because we all lived in the neighborhood, like our husbands were friends and stuff, and then we all had kids at the same time.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, okay, now we're having kids, and our kids like grew up together and like went to camp together, so it's like all like it's interwoven in lives.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like me and the doodles.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of ladies in the neighborhood who have doodles.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have that shared connection.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to kind of dial this in a little bit because this isn't just a conversation about friends.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is also like we both work with high achieving women who, like you said, you check in.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have friends?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And not only do they have friends, do they have like a close bond with somebody?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like even just one person, or do they have a support commun?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do they have a place to get that like support on like a friendship level outside of their relationship?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that is such an important, and you'll probably notice this too, but especially when I was working with kids, if ever a kid is presenting with an issue, the number one thing I'm gonna look at first is all the environmental factors, right?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, like what are what's happening in school, what's happening at home?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are all these environmental factors conducive to this kid thriving?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: If so, then we can look at other things, but it's usually environmental, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm also looking at that with clients of like, okay, do they have all these boxes checked of things that one would need in order to feel supported, in order to feel connected and grow.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't have any of those things, then it's like, okay, we need to create those things.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's the work sometimes because to go back to the original part of the conversation, which is about you know, the childhood micro traumas and the relational bullying that happens kind of creates the conditions for isolation.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And smart girls in the 21st century, and previously Barb has always said gifted women grow thorns and shells around our hearts.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you have all of this armor to protect yourself from the people, then to have a friendship and to have people who you can connect with and be supported by is even more difficult.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I always have to look at what are the thorns in the shells.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: And why are they there?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're there for a purpose.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, when I work with my clients, part of it, the work is if they can heal their hearts with me and be with me in a way, it's not a friendship.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not a friend.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're still that support person, which I feel like is it holds a similar place.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's different, you know?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's all about that I don't process my marriage with my client.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the difference between you guys, like a you know, a mindset coach, I suppose, and somebody like me or you, who have this background education and training, yeah, specifically around counseling and psychological transformation, that like we're trained to be able to hold the space for somebody to explore these things in a safe way, so that I always think about the relationship I have with my clients as sort of a microcosm for what's out there.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can shift what's here between us, then that can go right into the world.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: We can have a container where they feel safe, they don't feel judged, they feel supported, and they have this container to grow and process their own feelings, and they can like go into the world and feel safe to connect with people and to like be creative and express themselves and all that stuff.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that it is harder than people realize, you know?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um well, especially let's get into it because part of the problem with it being harder is what do we see on TV all day, every day.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like if that's your model for friendships, forget it.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: I am so fascinated by reality TV, especially like the Real Housewives or like any shows that are just more around like the relational piece.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like like survivor or any of that crap, but like just around like relationships, right?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a formula to it and there's like an arc to the show, and it's always the same.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that they're really like leveraging and capitalizing on is perspective, right?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like then someone saying something about somebody else that they always say they don't remember saying, and then the person who then that it getting back to that person, and then that person getting upset and offended, and then confronting this person, this person denying it, and this person getting mad, and then it turns into like a blowout that will last for however long until they like resolve it.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, I'm always like, okay, so this is like stemming from gossiping or talking shit about people, but then also like they're not being that safe space because if you were like venting or talking about a friend that say we both knew or whatever, I would never go tell that friend ever, right?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like ever, because we have a safe container where I'm not being like, well, Robin thinks that you're this.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, Robin probably loves you and doesn't think you're this.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Robin is processing a situation and like venting about it.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean she thinks that.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you do, that's not the entirety.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of the situation.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a psychologically mature, not made for TV model of friendship.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: What we see just what was your favorite soap opera when you were General Hospital.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's right.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was Days of Our Lives.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, that's what we were raised on.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: We were raised subconsciously on how to do relationships from watching General Hospital, Luke and Laura or whoever, right?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Jack and Jen, whatever.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then now we've got the reality TV with that nonsense.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: So there's this.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how many of your clients watch reality TV, but I think some of them do.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: But even if we're just watching it like subconscious, like even if it's just in the passing by, it's in the collective energy, like in the zeitgeist, the cultural zeitgeist.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: So what do we do with that?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because we know that there's a different way to do friendships.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: We know it's not the way on TV.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Unless we're gonna sit down and eat popcorn and watch together and chat about it.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then to me, I'm gonna be like psychoanalyzing everybody.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the biggest thing to me is really looking at like, okay, what is going on in someone's brain that makes them put themselves in this situation?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because like they're prompted to say things and act this way.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: They wouldn't naturally do that.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then so I wonder like, what was going on with them just on like a psychological level that they are willing to do that?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever, that's a whole other topic.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that it's much more about what kind of relationship do you want to have with somebody?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: And are you willing to go beyond like surface level and also create a safe and like sacred container within the friendship?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: This reminds me of something.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's a book called Me Before We, and it's about romantic relationships, of course.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: But there's wisdom in that book around female friendships as well.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole premise of the book is that it's not about the other person, it's about yourself.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about, you know, whether it's healing yourself or looking at those aspects of you that are creating the loneliness and creating the isolation or creating the drama in your relationships and getting after that to have a different relationship with yourself first.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then that opens up the opportunity and the invitation for loving people who are supportive and loyal and funny and are friends with me through length, even though I'm not having wine and so on.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: But also when, and also you can allow people to make a mistake.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can be like, okay, well, that thing that you said or that thing that you did, like it hurt me.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I need some time, but also I'm willing to move past it because, like, right, I know people make mistakes.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know people act out of wounding or people act out of fear or whatever it is.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you have the space for that instead of it being like, oh, you wronged me, like you're dead to me.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like that.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because as soon as you hit that, I'm done, the either or the black and white, that is to me, it's symptomatic of the automatic programs that have been running since childhood about how did Luke and Laura do it on days of our lives, or Sammy and Carrie, who were sisters on Days of Our Lives, or whatever.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like those are the memories that were programmed in, I suppose, or those scripts run unabated until you're aware of them and then you can do something about it.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the biggest thing is like what constitutes a friendship that is like real.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's about you feeling like you can just be fully yourself.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like that's what I love about my friendships is I will like overshare, say everything, and like it's funny, and just like you know what I mean?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what I love about my close friendships.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Cause it's like I can give the gross details of something, just overshare about stuff that's going on in my like twisted brain that I probably shouldn't admit to like other people.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Mine is much more simple than that.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Scorpio's the I know you're right.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's this.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Can I send them memes?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and can I send them like 17 memes in a row?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, and they won't get mad.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they won't get mad.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's like my friend Emily in our group Instagram chat.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like like no one responds for so long, and Emily just like sending, like keep sending, and then eventually, like, but it's just funny because like she doesn't care and we don't care.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just like that's it's just an expression for you guys.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing is out of the blue being able to test you and say I really think you should get bangs.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: And me not listening.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you guys, I tried.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: I made a really good case.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I consulted with Ann, my hairstylist, and she said no.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: You don't consult with your hair.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but I don't bang.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just can't.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just like if you're in it, you just I know I couldn't get in it.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't get in it.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: You and then if they say no, then you twist their arm.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're committed to it, no, I'm not.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do it.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that's like a very big commitment.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, here's the other thing that I want to say is that speaking of that, is that I think for me and my best friends, there are multiple roles.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just one.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's sometimes I'll say, I know I sound like your big sister, Elise.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's that, there's the friend, there's a sister, there's sometimes uh, you know, a mom.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are the like when I was sick last week, and you guys finally I'm like, I have to call Elise.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: She's got to do energy work on me.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it took me a week to remember that.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then like 10 minutes later, I'm like, oh, this feels so much better.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are all of these different layers, and I see that with you and with Barb.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: And oh my, like this beautiful group of women who are my bosom friends is just like that's you know what I think it is too, and I always say this there's different people that you connect in different ways, and like it doesn't mean that it's better or worse.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have like certain friends that we bond more over, like being moms, but also like they're cool.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not just gonna randomly be friends with anybody because they're a mom, but like you know, you know what I mean?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, or we bond over shared childhood experiences, or we bond over like the stuff we bond over, which is energetic, spiritual, crazy shit, personal growth, like that kind of stuff.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I feel like there's so many different like places that you can meet someone in a place of connection, like just because somebody might not be you're from fucking South Dakota.
• 50:49
  unknown: I know.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and my sisters are too.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's weird.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, because you guys we let we invited her to be in the chat with us, and it was fun, right?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like, but it's just funny because like I feel like there's these like places we so deeply connect, and then there's like these other ways of like where we come from that's so different.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you tell certain stories, I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's just I have no context for it, you know.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: We come from just such different ways of like living or whatever.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was people that maybe I don't connect with them as much on that level, but like we grew up together, we come from the same place, like, and there's just so many different points of connection.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's so important to just like not make anybody wrong and just like appreciate people for who they are and the place that you do connect and like be grateful for that, and then like don't expect them to be the spiritual one or you know, like the one who you can like watch Bravo with if that's not them.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like go do that with somebody else.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's you know, it's multi-faceted you're multifaceted, so it's to be expected that you're going to have many different friends depending on what facet is shining.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's also like mirror back a part of you.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: This happened with Hazel, like I think it was last year when she first started at her new school.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like having this moment where so she had met this new group of friends at her new school, and like because of like how they are, she was like experiencing herself differently.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then she like thought there was something wrong.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she's like, why am I acting different with them than I do with my other friends?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember she was like crying, and I was like, What's wrong?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like it was hard for her to put it to words, but I basically got it out of her, and I was like, No, no, no.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's how friendships are like some people will bring out different sides of you, and that's how you like learn about yourself.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it doesn't, you're not doing anything wrong.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, just is a new aspect and it's like a new mirror, a new like container that like you get to experience yourself in the container of this person or in the reflection of this person, and you like learn something new about yourself.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I wanted to share that a couple days ago I put out a post in socials about, you know, just I've been sick.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I said in my post, I said, I don't think I've been this sick since sophomore year when my roommate Caroline and I went to a toga party in February, Delta Chai at Creighton University, and got we were so sick for a week.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were like quarantined in our dorm room, and the only class I went to was Child Psych because he was a really hard teacher.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I haven't talked to Caroline in literally years.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're friends on Facebook, yeah, but literally years.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I pinged it over to her.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, do you remember how sick we were?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a nice little exchange.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna be BFFs in our, you know, in this season of our lives.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like one of those shared memories that you were referring to.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's nobody else who knows that story exactly and live through it except for me and Caroline.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was just a nice point of connection.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: That it was just a nice point of connection.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think it's one of those things where it shows you these points of connection or places where you can meet people and also to like not put so much pressure on like somebody has to be a certain way.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: And even with like worldview or which I don't give a shit about political views, but like that kind of stuff, like I never let that stuff bother me ever.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like people might have something to say about that, but I don't care unless there's like a no place at all where I connect with somebody or I don't like them that much, but that's more of like an energetic thing.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: But like whatever your other stuff is, if like there's something we really connect on, like I don't care what you like, because all that stuff is just a matter of what your experiences were growing up, where you grew up, what influenced you.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not really like a reflection of who you are.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess like the biggest like takeaways, I guess, for people.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the biggest themes I'm seeing with my clients and myself in the last like this year is the shift around like the way we value ourselves, right?
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like not abandoning ourselves for our relationships or for our kids or whatever, because like that actually doesn't serve anyone, and like really realizing like what does it actually take for you to feel supported and like satisfied and fulfilled in your life, and like putting that first because like everyone benefits from that, and I think friendships and connection is like a huge part of that, and I think if you don't value that or you don't have that, why is it hard to value that?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's something that it's not frivolous, it's not like like I think it's like a necessity, it is a necessity, yeah.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that when I look at my marriage, my marriage is the most important thing in my life, yeah.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it didn't used to be that way, by the way.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my work was important, and um, but that's shifted.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: My work is still important, it's not that, but the core of this marriage to me is the most important thing.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one of the ways that my marriage broke down initially was that that's all like we were together all the time.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't talk to Barb and I, you know, I talked to you about business, but it was just really a different like you let yourself get completely like sucked.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what happens, whether it's around work or whether it's around marriage or kids, like when you lose yourself in that relationship and you're you neglect the funny, fun, adventurous, snarky, you know, all of these other aspects of who you are, that's when, you know, not just the marriage starts to struggle, but that's when I think that our souls start to struggle as well.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's when we get like anxiety or depression or whatever like those symptoms are.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're meant for more than just the singularity of the marriage.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: One person, yeah.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like there's not that's it's a beautiful thing, but I think like one person can't be everything to you, you know, and there's like things that I'm sure he needs that you don't you can't provide, and that you need that he can't provide.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's normal, like not like it's to be expected, yeah.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yet I think that we do place an unnecessary amount of pressure on our primary relationships to meet all of our needs, exactly.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just unrealistic, but you know, the TV would tell us otherwise, right?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because then it's like, oh, this person is like my soulmate, yeah.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's we need to do a win on soulmates because I just hate that.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think there's like this new paradigm of relationships coming.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there it's something to explore too, of like really what it means to have like an evolved relationship, because I think that the old way of thinking about it is breaking down in the sense of you know, the roles, or like that you're supposed to like be everything to each other or whatever it is.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think there's something new coming.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's like worth exploring.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like this is like laying the foundation for it because I think that, you know, because women have like known the power of their connection for generations, but now really being able to like value it in this way is also like setting the tone for like a new way that we relate in general, like romantically and otherwise, because anywhere where you have to like sacrifice yourself, that doesn't work.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, I have kind of a different perspective on the sacrifice piece because I think that any relationship is going to ask us to prioritize the other person, of course.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's different than sacrifice or abandon.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that where we've gotten tangled up is in words like sacrifice or obey or whatever, like the word, right?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's used so often in a way that creates the conditions for women to think that we um don't have any time for ourselves and we shouldn't have we shouldn't want any time for ourselves.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it basically makes us wrong for just being human.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I know there's a whole lot more we can say about that, but I think ultimately, I think what I want to say as we close out today is that if this struck a chord for you, reach out to your friends, even if it's just to say hi, even if it's just to tap into your college roommate and say, remember that time.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because those are those little micro activations, there's so much potency in them, and you never know.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: You never know what's gonna come out of it.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's an act of like valuing yourself to like value your friendships.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: My mom always says, be the kind of friend you want to have.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there's something to that.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I think that because I have ADHD, it's sometimes like out of sight, out of mind, and I literally like kind of forget about people just because Yeah, and you're in your everyday life, and I don't think people expect every day.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I just even do things like in the morning when I'm getting up and getting about my day, I'll just think about the people in my life.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: And send goodwill to them or just send love to them because even those little micro touches create connection.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so like in the astral, like it's the telepathic connection.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: So share this with your friends.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: Share it with your friends.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you love this, say hello in the comments and follow us and subscribe on our YouTube channels and all the places.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: All the infos.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll we'll keep this going.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: We always do.
• 1:00:58
  unknown: Yay!
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:01:02
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• 1:01:05
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• 1:01:10
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• 1:01:18
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• 1:01:22
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• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.