Latest / Fork U with Dr. Terry Simpson / Animal Protein and Cancer Risk

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Animal Protein and Cancer Risk · Fork U with Dr. Terry Simpson

• 0:04
  >> Dr. Terry Simpson: Eating more animal protein means less cancer.
• 0:06
  Well, so tweets Mark Hyman. You may have heard of
• 0:10
  him. He's a low carb enthusiast, a MAHA supporter,
• 0:13
  a supplement salesman, and now a nutrition
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  revisionist. He wants you to believe that more
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  animal protein lowers cancer risk, pointing to an
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  outlier study that boils decades of flaw survey
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  data into one thin gruel of a conclusion. This
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  isn't science. It's the conjuring trick of a
• 0:32
  salesman. We would probably call it the arrogance
• 0:35
  of certainty. Without the burden of proof, Hyman
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  waves away mountains of evidence from serious
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  researchers, cancer epidemiologists on five
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  continents because it doesn't suit his narrative
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  or his business model. And so we're left with a
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  choice. Do we follow the global consensus of
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  scientists, or do we buy into the gospel according
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  to a man whose medical insights can be measured in
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  the half life of a supplement fad? I'm your chief
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  medical explanation. It's Dr. Terry Simpson, and
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  this is Fork U Fork University, where we make
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  sense of the madness, bust a few myths, and teach
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  you a little bit about food and medicine. Mark
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  Hyman didn't start out as the the guru you see
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  today. He was once a family doctor, then a spa
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  doctor. Then he discovered something far more
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  profitable than medicine. Selling supplements and
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  pseudoscience. Out of that came functional
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  medicine. What is functional medicine? Well, if
• 1:40
  you're a nurse, a dentist, or even a chiropractor,
• 1:42
  you can take a six month zoom course and suddenly
• 1:45
  call yourself a functional medicine doctor. You've
• 1:48
  probably seen the ads for the 300 tests they'll
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  run on you for a few hundred dollars each. So why
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  don't real physicians order 300 tests at once?
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  Because modern medicine is based on history and a
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  physical exam. If you shotgun three to 400 lab
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  tests, you will always find some abnormalities
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  statistically guaranteed. And once you've scared a
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  patient with those numbers, you just happen to
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  have the solution. A few hundred dollars worth of
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  supplements every month. Maybe supplement really
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  does stand for supplemental income. For a while,
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  Hyman even carried the banner of the prestigious
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  Cleveland Clinic. Why they eventually parted ways,
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  no one knows. But what we do know is Hyman is
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  camera ready. He has just enough jargon to impress
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  the non doctor and his platitudes are exceeded
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  only by his inability or unwillingness to read
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  scientific research correctly.
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  Which brings us to his latest misfire. On
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  September 19, Mark Hyman tweeted that researchers
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  analyzed the NHANES 3 data from 15,937 US adults
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  followed for 20 to 30 years. According to Hyman.
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  They found no link between animal protein and
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  mortality and, um, even a modest reduction in
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  cancer deaths with higher animal protein intake.
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  Sounds like good news, right? Steak every night.
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  But not so fast. NHANES is actually a valuable
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  data set. It's helped us learn a lot about diet
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  and health in America. It covers a large diverse
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  population and tracks outcomes over decades.
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  That's the good news. The bad news. The NHAIDES
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  relies on a single 24 hour dietary recall. Asking
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  someone once what they ate yesterday and then
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  projecting that forward over decades. Worse, it
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  lumps salmon, bacon, chicken, yogurt and steak
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  into one bucket called animal protein. That kind
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  of broad brush smooths over critical differences.
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  Fish is not bacon, chicken is not salami, and milk
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  is not steak. We have learned things from the
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  NHANES study, yes, but anyone who reads these
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  studies for a living will tell you the skill is
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  knowing how to separate good data from junk
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  analysis. And Hyman's is, unfortunately, junk
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  analysis. So let's go to the evidence. When you
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  turn to systematic reviews and large cohort
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  studies, the picture becomes clear and far more
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  precise than the NHANES snapshot. Let's look at
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  red and processed meats. Multiple independent
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  studies across different populations consistently
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  show the same thing. Higher intake means higher
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  cancer risks. Add 50 to 70 grams a day of red or
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  unprocessed meat and colorectal cancer risk rises
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  15 to 32%. Processed meats carry an even greater
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  risk. Let's go to fish. Several carefully
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  separated analyses show that 50 grams a day lowers
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  colorectal cancer risk by, uh, 4%. Pescatarians,
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  those who eat fish predominantly as their meat
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  source, have roughly, uh, a 9% lower overall
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  cancer risk than regular meat eaters. Poultry?
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  Well, independent studies show that it's neutral
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  to maybe even slightly protective. Unlike red
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  meat, poultry hasn't been linked to higher
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  colorectal cancer risk when carefully analyzed.
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  What about dairy? You know, Greek yogurt? Large
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  cohorts demonstrate that milk and calcium lower
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  the colorectal cancer risk. But at very high
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  intakes, dairy, especially milk, has been linked
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  to increased risk of prostate and endometrial
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  cancer. Now let's just contrast this with plant
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  protein. And the data here is so remarkably
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  consistent. Higher plant protein is associated
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  with a lower risk of overall cancer incidence and
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  cancer mortality, particularly when plant protein
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  replaces animal protein, especially red and
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  processed meats. Multiple prospective cohorts,
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  meaning we take a group of people and we follow
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  them over time and, and meta analysis, meaning
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  we've taken a lot of these studies together, show
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  that plant protein is Inversely associated with
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  all cause cardiovascular mortality, meaning it's
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  heart healthy. And when we substitute animal
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  protein with plant protein, it reduces the overall
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  risk of total and site specific cancers,
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  especially colorectal. Now here's the key. Every
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  major cancer body, whether it's the American
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  Cancer Society, the World Cancer Research Fund,
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  the European Union, or cancer research institutes
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  in Canada, Australia and beyond, document these
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  same trends. The problem isn't with protein
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  itself. It's with lumping it all together, as N.
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  Hayden's does. That fuzzes the picture. But when
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  you separate the sources, as these independent,
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  carefully done studies have, the information
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  becomes crystal clear. Red and processed meat
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  increases cancer risk. Fish tends to protect.
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  Poultry is neutral. Dairy is mixed. And plant
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  protein is protective, especially when it replaces
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  red and processed meats. Now, Hyman writes, I
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  Recommend Aiming for 4 to 6 ounces of high quality
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  animal protein per meal, twice a day. Now, that
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  might sound like sensible advice, but this isn't
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  what cancer prevention is made up for. This is
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  bodybuilding math dressed up as medicine. Follow
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  that prescription, literally, and you're eating
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  steak at lunch, steak at dinner, with eggs,
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  poultry and dairy filling in the gaps. That's not
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  building resilience, that's building cancer risks.
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  Multiple cohort studies show that diets highest in
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  red and processed meats, the very food his
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  prescription promotes, carry the highest rates of
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  colorectal, breast and endometrial cancer
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  substitution. Studies are clear. Replace red meat
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  with plant protein or fish and the risk goes down.
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  Follow his advice and it goes up. And here's the
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  kicker. There is no cancer society, no cardiology
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  body, no public health organization on earth that
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  recommends 1 gram of protein per pound of body
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  weight. Every major health body recommends the
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  opposite. Cut red and processed meats and replace
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  them with other healthier sources. Now contrast
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  that with the Mediterranean diet, the most studied
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  diet for longevity. It allows up to 4 ounces of
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  red meat in a day or less. And people who follow
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  it don't just live longer, they live healthier
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  with lower cancer and heart disease rates. So when
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  Hyman prescribes his four to six ounces twice
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  daily, the question is, is he reading the data or
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  is he just selling to the low carb crowd? Because
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  it isn't medicine, it's marketing.
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  Next on his thread, Hyman advises, and I quote,
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  choose grass fed pasture, raised meat, organic
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  poultry and eggs, wild caught fish. They're higher
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  in omega 3s, B12, zinc, and lower in hormones,
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  antibio and inflammatory fats. Now that sounds
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  great, but here's the truth. The difference
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  between grass fed and corn fed beef is minimal
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  when it comes to cancer risk. Grass fed beef may
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  have a touch more Omega 3s, but it's still red
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  meat. It is still produced in the same DNA
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  damaging compounds when grilled or smoked. And the
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  biggest difference? Taste. Grass fed beef often
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  tastes grassy or gamey. Corn fed beef is richer,
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  marbled. And frankly, I'll admit I prefer the
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  taste of corn fed beef. But preference doesn't
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  change cancer data. If you want real nutritional
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  benefit, you'd be far better off eating farmed
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  fish other than any kinds of beef. Fish has more
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  omega 3s, fewer carcinogens, and protective effect
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  against colorectal cancer. Choosing grass fed over
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  corn fed steak isn't a health choice. It's a
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  palate choice. So when Hyman pitches quality meat
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  as though a, uh, marketing label erases decades of
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  cancer research, he isn't giving medical advice,
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  he's selling a lifestyle brand. Hyman also wrote,
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  quote, for decades, scientists have thought high
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  protein raised cancer risk by raising IGF1. But
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  this study showed there was no link between IGF1
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  and mortality. This is a classic sleight of hand,
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  IGF1, which is a pathway. It's not the whole
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  story. But cancer begins with DNA damage. When red
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  meat is processed, it forms nitrates and nitrites
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  that become carcinogens. When red meat is grilled
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  or charred, it produces heterocyclic amines and
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  polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. These chemicals
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  damage DNA directly. And if your repair systems
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  fail, mutations build and cancer can begin. So to
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  say no IGF link means no risk is like pointing at
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  the matchbook and ignoring the bonfire. The risk
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  isn't theory, it's chemistry. Hyman closes with.
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  Moderate intake of animal protein does not raise
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  risk. Prioritize nutrient dense sources, balance
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  with colorful plants, and lifestyle factors like
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  smoking and inactivity matter more than protein
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  intake. Sure, plants help. Fruits, vegetables, and
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  whole grains do mitigate some of the cancer risk
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  of unprocessed red meat. That's good news. But
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  plants don't cancel out bacon. A salad with your
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  hot dog doesn't erase the hot dog. And I love a
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  Chicago style hot dog that has lots of vegetables
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  on it. And relish. It's delicious. But smoking
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  inactivity are stronger risk factors than diet.
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  But that doesn't mean diet doesn't matter. Smoking
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  is worse than asbestos, too, but that doesn't make
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  asbestos safe. Cancer risk is cumulative. Every
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  preventable risk counts. So when Hyman wraps
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  himself up in a platitude about colorful plants,
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  he's not doing science, he's doing spin. So here's
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  the bottom don't be fooled by viral nutrition
• 11:24
  tweets. The overwhelming evidence shows that red
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  and processed meat raise cancer risk, fish helps,
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  poultry is neutral, dairy is mixed, and plant
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  protein is protective, especially when it replaces
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  red and processed meats. And as much as I would
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  love to sit down and have a big steak every night,
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  I don't because I believe the data. And the data
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  says less red and processed meat, more fish, more
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  plants, and better health. For references and the
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  full breakdown, check the blog
• 11:53
  post@yourdoctorsorders.com and 4Q.com Please
• 11:57
  subscribe to this podcast, share it with friends
• 11:59
  and help spread the evidence, not the hype. This
• 12:02
  podcast was distributed by our friends at Simpler
• 12:05
  Media and my good friend the cod pod God, Mr. Evo
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  Terra. And remember, while I am a board certified
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  physician, I am not your physician. Please talk
• 12:14
  with your board certified doctor, not a
• 12:16
  chiropractor, certainly not a functional medicine
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  doctor and a registered dietitian before making
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  any big changes to your diet. Yes, I still eat red
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  meat. I sometimes have tofu. I probably should
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  have it more often. And you should too. Oh, and
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  here's a culinary tip. When you like your steak,
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  marinate it in some rosemary that actually cuts
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  down on some of the heterocyclic amines and
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  produces less carcinogenic compounds when it's
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  grilled. Culinary tip for the day from the doctor.
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  Alright everybody, have a good week.
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  All right? Ivo, after all this protein talk, fish
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  tacos or bacon cheeseburger? Which one's going on
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  your plate? Me. I kind of like the fish tacos
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  around here. They're freaking delicious.
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  >> Speaker B: Oh yeah, fish tacos have been my go to for quite a
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  while now. They're amazing. Speaking of which, I
• 13:14
  didn't edit out when you mistakenly called me the
• 13:16
  cod podfather.
• 13:17
  >> Dr. Terry Simpson: You know, because I like Code M.