Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 412- CONVENIENTLY ABSENT

Transcript

JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 412- CONVENIENTLY ABSENT · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: What is the meaning of life?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Kidding, folks, kidding. Joe didn't even see it.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Big Bad Mommies say he kicked your.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back. And here we go.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: What's up everybody? Welcome in to the Friday Night Show.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: This is the Lone Gummite Podcast. I am Big Bad Bob.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: He is Joe Borelli. And together... We are here at
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: your service tonight to bring you another banger here on
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: September 11th, nine 11 Joe.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Yes. 25th anniversary. And, uh, you know, we're not going
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: to spend much time on this, but do you remember
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: where you are, where you were?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I remember exactly where I are.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Because it, it's kind of like the Kennedy assassination in
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: a sense, like everyone that was alive then, of course
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I was not, you were not. Um, knew where they
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: were then, similar with September 11th.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was a big wake-up call, too, for
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of folks, and bringing them into the conspiracy
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: world as well. There's lots of problems with that story
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: when you start to really look into it, as with
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: the JFK assassination, of course. But this show's not about that,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: but today is about that, so... Yeah, I remember, dude,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I just had a kid the month before. And I
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: woke up and I was working second shift. So I
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: was home that morning and I was up. And the
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: TV happened to be on and I was like. The
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: hell's going on? You know, the break, you know, is
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: breaking into everything, right? Right. Of course, this is pre
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: streaming days, pre Netflix. I mean, we still had cable
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: television and. you know, all of that jazz. So, and
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: cell phones were big, but not everybody had them back then,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: you know, and the internet was in its infancy. But
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, what kind
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: of world am I bringing my kid into? You know
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: what I mean? So here we are.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Five years later.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: And here I am with a 25 year old kid now. Yes.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: That's crazy. That is crazy. I did not know that. Yeah, man.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: So I was in Military Academy in my sophomore year.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I was in preschool.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: I was Corporal Joe Borelli. Well, I briefly retained that
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: rank before it was stripped of me.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: You're back down to Buck Private, just like Oswald.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: And as it's no surprise to anyone, my memory isn't
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: the best, but I was in Colonel Medeiros' I believe
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: it was English class. And someone came and whispered to him.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Bell rang. Went to the next class. And then they
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: rolled the TV in like they had on those carts
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: back in the day. You know, like those small TVs.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's a military school thing.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: No.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: They canceled classes. They marched us all into the... church
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: citadel thing and.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Did you literally have to march over like oh yes
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: oh yes yes left left left right left oh.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Wow get the fairy thing out before i can brandon
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: thank you sir yeah um So they march us all in,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: and of course we're all gung-ho at that point because
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: we're teenagers and we're like, we're going to war, let's go.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: It was kind of like a Pearl Harbor type of moment,
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: if you will. At least it seemed like that to me.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: And I remember going to sleep that night. I remember
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: who my roommate was, and we still talk. We're friends
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: on Instagram. Shout out, Matt. And I was like, damn, man,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: this day is going to change shit. And, you know,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: just without opining on it, maybe we'll save some of
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: that for members only or personal thoughts. A bunch of
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: New Yorkers, I was born and raised in New York,
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: heroically went up the building. I believe there were 400
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: first responders, firemen, Port Authority, NYPD, etc. Died, many others
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: died of illnesses, and then many others died in the
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: war's that followed. Um, so just prayers out to everyone.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: It was just, uh, figured we'd just touch on it
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: for a minute or six minutes or five minutes, but yes,
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: but we do have a banger for you tonight and
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: it's kind of a semi follow up on, uh, our
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: last episode, not really, but of things going on in
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Dealey Plaza, either before or after the assassination, right?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Well, the last show was about the Dow text building.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: So, Well, I said Dealey Plaza-ish, right? That area.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in a tight space.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: And tonight we'll be in the building right next to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: the Daltex building. It's called the School Book Depository. Maybe
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: you've heard it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Allegedly. Allegedly.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, shit. I have to send my PowerPoint to my
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: other computer. We're going to be talking about... Or I'll
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: be talking about Mr. Warren Castor.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, conveniently absent from work on November 22, 1963.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I was telling Joe this would be a whole lot
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: better show if we were doing a conspiracy show about
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: the people who didn't show up for work on 9-11.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? But it does kind of
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: correlate in a way to what happened in 1963 in
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Dealey Plaza. And there was a couple people who conveniently
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: were absent from work on November 22, 1963. But we'll
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: get there.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Promise.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: You promise. Yeah, man, so, you know, I think we're
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: going to try to figure out whether this is conspiracy
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: or coincidence when it relates to Mr. Castor. And I'm
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: probably going to say Craster a few times. because that
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: was the name of some dude in Game of Thrones,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: so I actually misspelled it when I was writing it down.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: I actually haven't crossed out the R. But Mr., let
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: me just do the basic rundown here.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Warren Castor was an assistant manager for the Southwestern Publishing Company,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: which had offices in the TSBD, Texas School Book Depository,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: building at 411 Elm. His office was on the second floor.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: And he testified before the Warren Commission in May of 1964.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: He was born in 1918, which would have made him
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: about 45 at the time of the assassination. In New Mexico. Educated.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: He taught school there. He served two years in the U.S.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Navy and began working for the Southwestern Publishing Company in 1952.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: which eventually his job brought him to Dallas. He lived
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: on Merrill Road.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And what day did it bring him to Dallas, Joe?
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: What day did it bring him to Dallas?
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know. What, his job?
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Enlighten me.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Allegedly, the same day that Oswald got hired, he started there.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Because there's a big misnomer conspiracy out there in the ether,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: in certain places that you look, that say, oh, there
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: was two people hired on the same day Oswald was hired.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: One of them got sent to one warehouse and the
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: other one got sent to the other. But not really,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: because Castor worked for the book publishing company.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: And he did have an office in the Elm Street building.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So that myth of that fable, of that conspiracy, has been...
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: The telephone game has gotten to it. And it's gotten
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: morphed into something that it isn't. So don't believe the hype.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: This is the truth. Proceed, Joe.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Right. And hold on as I'm downloading this. He was
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: married to Ruth Anna, had two sons, David and William.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: He continued working in the TSBD for years after 1963.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: almost 20 years, later becoming manager and then regional vice
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: president before retiring around 1963. He later retired... Wait, what?
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I'd like to speak to the manager.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he worked there for a long time after the assassination.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you said he retired in 63. No, 83.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, you said 63. No, so, yeah.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: So, of course....
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of you know this story. On Wednesday,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: November 20th, which would have been that Wednesday, two days
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: before the assassination, brought two rifles into the building. One
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: was a. 22, Remington single-shot. 22, and a. 30- 06, a
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: sporterized Mauser. One was for his kid, which would have
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: been the. 22, And the other was for himself.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: For me, one for you.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: And as a Christmas present, allegedly.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: The rifles came in cartons, which I'm guessing was like
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: some type of cardboard box, right? He brought them back
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: in the TSBD building, stopped by the area near Mr.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Roy Trudley's office, and showed and examined them with Trudley.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: Others present included... William Shelley, and some warehouse workers. Castor
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: can't recall exactly who. He recalled Lee Harvey Oswald as
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: one of those who saw the rifles. So, again, I'm
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: going to do the thought experiment thing. Rob, you work
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: and supervise a warehouse. Is that fair to say? I did.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I did. I don't anymore, but I did, yes.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Okay. So, or just like if you're in any office building, right?
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I am in an office now, so yeah. Right, yeah.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: But just like any work environment, you come in with
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: a new toy and you might get some co-workers, you know,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: hovering around you and you might want to show it off. And,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: of course, this is the only documented evidence we have
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: of someone bringing guns into the TSBD, which is, of course, sus.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Lots of stories about other ones, but documented, yes.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, and corroborated as well. So, you know, Charlie, you know,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: picked up the. 30- 06, was like kind of looking at it.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: He didn't cock it. There's a joke in there somewhere.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Then he hid them in his office, allegedly, at Castor.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Of course, you don't want your new toy to be stolen.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: There's probably some skafoozes working there. Oh, we know that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: And then took it home, allegedly, at 4 p.m. that day,
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: that Wednesday the 20th. And according to him, never brought
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: them back into the building. And on November 22nd, they
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: were at his home. So we're going to go through
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: some of the same-day documentation and documents relating to Mr.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Warren Castor. And there's not much. I mean, his Warren
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Commission testimony is very short.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I don't like where this thought experiment is going. It's
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: very long.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: But I'm saying, if you were.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: You never got there.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Okay. I'm weaving back here.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: If, say, Rob wanted to do something nefarious two days before, say,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Governor Scafusa went by his warehouse building, would you bring
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: in guns and show them off?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: No.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And the story is, you know, allegedly he bought the
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: rifles for his, well, he bought himself and his son
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: a rifle for Christmas.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Just like a month before.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like, you know, that's believable, right? So
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: the original plan was that he was going to keep
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: them at his work in a closet. Because, you know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: you don't, when you're kids, you always look for your
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Christmas presents and you didn't want his kid to find
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: his Christmas present or maybe he didn't have a good
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: spot to hide them at at home or whatever. Right.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Can you, can you imagine if he would have done that?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Like hit him in his closet at work and they
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: found them and that, you know what I'm saying? On
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: November 22nd, I'd be like, what the hell?
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: What's going on here?
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean, you know, my thoughts on this has,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: has changed over time and we'll get there. I promise. But, um,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: It wouldn't make any operational sense to do such a
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: thing if you were part of the conspiracy or bringing
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: guns in. However, like you mentioned and we talked about,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: it's the only actually documented corroborated evidence of someone bringing
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: guns in. And as we're going to get to, Truly said,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: no one ever brought guns in before. And maybe on
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: part two we'll Members only next week. We'll go through
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: some of the allegations of gun running in the TSBD.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Random idea, Rob. We'll talk about that after.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, there is a theory out there. Well,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: there's many theories out there that have been spurned from
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: this Warren Castor incident of bringing rifles into the building.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people think that it got... The
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: guys working there, since Oswald was allegedly present and checking
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: out these rifles that got brought in there, right? That
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: maybe there was conversations had with other people that worked there.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: You know, hey, I got a rifle too, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Or maybe somebody offered to buy his rifle. That's why
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: he brought it to the building on Friday. And it
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: was just the perfect opportunity to set him up. You know,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: many theories have been born out of this incident.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: And, you know, we can argue about them all night
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: if you'd like to, but, you know, and they're not
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: bad theories. I mean, it is, it makes sense when
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: you think about it, right?
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm trying to, Fiddle.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I need to cough it up, then spit it out.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: That's what she said. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: No, you're right.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: And, you know, of course, the 30-06 and, you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: the Mauser, there's a bunch of things going on with that.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: And allegations of other guns found in the building. But nothing, like, concrete.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Right. You have what could possibly be interpreted as a
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: misinterpretation or a misidentification, you know, of the Carcano as
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: a Mauser. I mean, it did kind of look like
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: a Mauser, which is a very long road to hoe
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: from saying that it stamped right there on the barrel, 7.65 Mauser.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know. Right.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: And I don't think Mr. Caster said that he didn't
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: really know who was around and who was kind of
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: hovering around his showing off of his new purchase, right?
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Well, he didn't know the low-tier workers in the warehouse,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: so he didn't know any of them personally or biologically. sight.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: So not, you know, they didn't kind of associate with
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. But he obviously knew truly.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: And I, uh, yeah, but he wouldn't have known some
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: skafooza standing around, you know, that we're just right. Right.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: Right. He would have known truly and Shelly as we're
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: going to get to, uh, in my PowerPoint, but you're
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: not going to know every warehouse worker, especially if they
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: were hired a month before, right?
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: You're really not going to know. So why don't you
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: put this up, Rob, and we'll get to it. I'll
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: spit it out.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for using my enhanced photo, you asshole.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you were going to use it.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: No, I said here you go.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay. I didn't put it in my PowerPoint.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: God damn.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Did you put it? Do you have it?
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: No, I sent it to you.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I know, but I didn't put it in. So Rob
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: enhanced this with AI. When you do your segment, Rob,
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: I'll screenshot it, download it, and we'll show it. But
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: this is him at age 31. Of course, 45 and 63.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: From a yearbook from his school in New Mexico. He
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: had a bachelor's, he had a master's degree, and this
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: was taken in 51. On 11-20-63, he brought two rifles
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: to the TSBD, which he said he bought on his
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: lunch hour at the Sanger-Harris Sporting Goods Department, a Remington single-shot.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: 22 and a. 30- 06 Mauser gear rifle. Mary Farrell notes
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: in her chronologies, under Warren Caster, recall... Hold on, I
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: just messed this up. That Mr. C.L. Connell....
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Or Mrs.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: C.L. Yeah, shout out, Jess. Says that General Walker and
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Colonel Caster are speaking to the Cuban refugees, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: So this is the building, and it kind of really
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: looks like the Daltecs. of the Sanger building, which is interesting.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: But allegations of this incident, right, with him bringing in
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: the rifles, came.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: God damn, what's that from the 1800s, Joe?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: 1912.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: 1912, I believe it's the same.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Good lord!
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: It looks like that old-ass photo of the Dow Techs
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: with the horse and buggies and shit.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Right, right. 1912, I guess. I mean, you can see
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: there's a A trolley. A trolley thing there. But there was,
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: you know, Mr. Truly, of course, was interviewed on November
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: 22nd by Special Agents Williams and Pinkston.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Truly advised that it is possible Oswald did see him
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: with a rifle in his hands within the past few
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: days as a Mr. Warren Castor employed by Southwestern Publishing Company,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: which company has an office in the same building, had
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: come to his office with two rifles, a. 22 that
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: he had purchased for his son, and another larger, more
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: high-powered rifle, which Caster said he had purchased to go
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: deer hunting, if he got a chance. He truly examined
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: the high-powered rifle and raised it to his shoulder. and
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: sitted it, is that what it says? And sitted over it,
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: then returned it to Castor, and Castor left with both rifles.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Truly stated he does not own a rifle and has
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: had no other rifle in his hands in his possession
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: in a long period of time.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I think he put it to his shoulder and looked
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: through the sight. Right, right, right. Not sitted, sighted.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: But it's misspelled.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Definitely not two Ts.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: All right. Well, thank you. You know, some of the
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: FBI guys are the sharpest tools in the shed. Here
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: we go.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: How dare you disparage the good name of Ned Pinkston.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Truly stated, Oswald has been writing to work with Buell
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Wesley Frazier, who resides in Irving. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: So that's day of FBI report.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Truly just throwing Frazier under the bus.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much. Or telling the truth.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: You know, he's been riding with this other boy sometimes
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: to work.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: So FBI did interview Mr. Warren Castor on the 24th. manager,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Southwestern Publishing Company, blah, blah, blah. It says 7th floor,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: which is obviously probably 2nd, but again, we're dealing with you-know-who.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: He stated he did not know Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Kasser related that on Wednesday, November 20th, 1963, he purchased the.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: 30- 06 rifle and a. 22 rifle at Sanger's in Dallas.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Subsequent to the purchase of the above rifles, He took
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: them to the TSBD, Elm Street, and exhibited the two
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: rifles to Mr. Roy Trulli, warehouse superintendent, and stated that
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: he had intended to hide the two rifles in his
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: office because he was going to give the. 22 to
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: his son for Christmas. Of course, allegedly, the first stories
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: he brought them home. On second thought, he was afraid
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: that the guns might be stolen, so he took them
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: to his home on November 20th. He stated he has
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: never seen anyone with a gun in the TSBD other
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: than the above related incident. I guess they're talking about
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Trulia there. So we're going to fast forward a little
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: bit to March of 1964. I, Warren Casta, hereby freely
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: and voluntarily make the following statement. My name is Warren
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Casta and I reside in Merrill Rowe, Dallas, Texas, 45
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: years of age, born in New Mexico. I'm a white
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: male and employed as a district manager of the Dallas office,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Southwestern Publishing Company. At the time President Kennedy was shot,
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: I was at North Texas State University, Denton, Texas, which
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: is where I believe Robert Oswald lived, right? And Denton, yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure of this. So, sus! Sus! I'm just kidding.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I was having lunch with Dr. Vernon V. Payne at
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: the school the time the president was shot. I did
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: not see Lee Harvey Oswald at the time. President Kennedy
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: was shot.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Any relation to Michael Payne? Or Ruth Payne?
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, there we go. That might be a rabbit hole
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: we can go down. I'm joking. I was not at
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: any time on November 22nd, 63 at the TSBD building.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: So then again, to weave it back to her opening statement,
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: he wasn't there that whole day. I have read the
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: above statement, blah, blah, blah, it's true and correct to
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: the best of my knowledge. So now let's go to
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: the Warren Commission testimony, Rob. And this was taken about,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: what was this, May, so March, April, May, about two
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: months after.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: So Denton is 40 miles away from Dallas. It's a
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: little bit of a hike.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: It's a little bit of a hike. So, you know,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: do you tell the whole truth, all the truth, nothing
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: but the truth, so help you God, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Do you want to do an impromptu southern Dallas accent
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: or no? Do you want me to read it?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll help you out here.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: You know I love playing Mr.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Ball.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Joseph Ball. There's also probably a joke in there too.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Will you state your full name please?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Warren Caster.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: And where do you live?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: 3338 Merrill.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: What is your business?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I textbook publishing.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Are you with some company?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yes. I am the assistant manager for Southwestern Publishing Company,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: with our offices being at 411 Elm Street.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: So you have offices in the Texas School Book Depository building?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: You rent those offices from the TSBD?
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: The offices are furnished in connection with our work with
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the depository.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Well, tell me something about yourself. Where were you born,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: and where were you raised and educated?
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I was born in New Mexico, educated in New Mexico,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: received my college degrees in New Mexico, Highlands University at
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Las Vegas, New Mexico. I taught school in New Mexico
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: from 1939 until I started to work with that Southwestern
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Publishing Company in 1952. It was a period of about
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: two years that I spent in the U.S. Navy.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: And have you had your offices since 1952 in the TSBD?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: The offices have been in the Texas School Book Depository building,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: but not in this particular building here. We have occupied
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: three places since I have been with the Southwestern Publishing Company.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Your office is on which floor?
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Second. Matt Pinkston didn't hear me right.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: Did you ever bring any guns into the School Book
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Depository building?
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did. When?
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Today.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I believe it was on Wednesday, November 20th, during the
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: noon hour.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Whose guns were they?
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: They were my guns.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: And what kind of guns were they?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: One was a Remington single-shot. 22 rifle, and the other
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: was a. 30- 06 sporterized Mauser.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Who owned them?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I had just purchased them during the noon hour that day.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Well, tell me about it. What were the circumstances....
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I left the depository building during the noon hour
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: and had lunch. And while I was out for lunch hour,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I stopped by Sanger Harris Sporting Goods Department to look
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: for a rifle for my son's birthday. I beg your pardon. Christ.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, Christmas present. Son's Christmas present. And while I
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: was there, I purchased a single shot,. 22 single shot.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, I was looking at some
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: deer rifles and I thought to myself, I said, oh
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: my God, I need me one of them. I had
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: over several years been thinking about buying a deer rifle
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: and they happened to have one that I liked. And
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I purchased that. 30- 06 while I was standing right there
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: on the steps.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: And did you box them up?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: They were in cartons, yes.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And then he went back to work, I guess? Yes.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I picked both rifles up in cartons just like they were.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: This was during the noon hour, as I've said four
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: times already. As I entered the Texas School Book Depository
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: building on my way up to the buying office, I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: stopped by Mr. Truly's office and I said, Hey, Roy,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: come here. I got something to show you.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Did you take them out of the carton?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Who was there besides you and Mr. Truly?
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: you were there, Joe.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Well, he says you were there, Bill. Which means Shelly.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: There's a comma.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, Bill and Mr. Shelly. It seems to me that maybe.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I think he thinks Joseph Ball was there. I think
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: you were there, Joe. Bill and Mr. Shelly was there
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: and Mr. Roy Truly. The only people that I know
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: about in any event were there. There were workers there
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: at the time, but I'm not quite sure how many.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even tell you their names. I don't know
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: the Texas School Book Depository workers like that.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: In that office, though, Truly's office, how many were there?
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Well, we weren't in Mr. Truly's immediate office. We were
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: just there at the counter.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: In the warehouse?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: We were there in the hall... Just right over the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: counter in front of the warehouse. That's right.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: And did you take the guns out of the carton?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did. They were removed from the cartons.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Did you handle them?
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Did anyone else handle the guns?
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Mr. Truly handled them, but I'm not sure whether Mr.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Shelley had the guns in his hands or not. I'm
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: not positive.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: How long a time were you there with the guns
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: by the time? Just estimate it.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Well, it could have been more than ten minutes or so.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: What did you do with the guns after that?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I put them back in the carton and carried them
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: up to my office. If you must know.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: And I must. And what did you do with them
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: after that?
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I left at the end of the working day around, oh,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: four o'clock. And I took the guns in the cartons
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: and I carried them and I put them in my car.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: And I carried them home.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Did you ever have them back at the TSBD building thereafter?
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: They have never been back to the school book depository
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: building since then.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: Where were those guns on November 22, 1963?
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: The guns were in my home at 3338 Merrill Road.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: I think that's all. This will be written up and
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: you'll be asked to come in and it will be
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: submitted to you for signature and you can correct it
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: if you wish.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: That's all right.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Any corrections you make, make them in pen and ink
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: and initial it and sign it. I want to thank
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: you very much for giving this testimony, Mr. Judge.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: No, no. I thank you very much, Mr. Joseph Ball.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: You handsome son of a bitch, you.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you, sir. So it's a pretty short Warren Commission
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: testimony here. I think it's like three or four pages long.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I might have clipped it to make it... It's not
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: very long. Which means.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I don't think they had much interest in it. I mean,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: I guess you could make the argument that, you know,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: they were ignoring this aspect of it. But let's go
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: to Roy Truly's Warren Commission testimony. And I clipped the
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: relevant parts here. Do you recall any time that you
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: saw any guns in the TSBD? Truly, yes, I did.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Prior to November 22, 1963. Yes, I saw two guns
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: on November 20th. Whose guns were they? They belonged to Mr. Castor. Now,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: before inquiring into the circumstances of seeing two guns that
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: belonged to Mr. Warren Castor on November 20th, I'll ask
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: you whether or not you have ever at any time
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: before that time or after that time saw guns in
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: the TSBD building. Never before. Never before. And between that date, Wednesday,
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: November 20th, and Friday, November 22nd, did you ever see
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: any guns in the TSBD building I did see guns
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: in there after the assassination. That is, you saw guns
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: of police officers? Of course, the police officers. Carried by
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: police officers, yes. Blah, blah, blah. And then talks about
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: the rifle being found on the sixth floor. So, Mr. Ball,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: you saw that in place on the sixth floor. No,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: I did not. You didn't. I only saw the rifle
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: as they were going out of the front door.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Bergen, do you have a massive erection?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: What was that?
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Nothing. As you were.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Ball, before the assassination, were there any occasion besides one
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: we're inquiring about where you saw guns in the TSBD? Never. So,
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to stop there. So, On the surface,
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: it seems very sus, right? I've never seen any.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: You know what that is, Joe?
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: What? Bizarre. It is a little bizarre. If truly statements
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: are correct, on November 20, 1963, you saw two guns.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: It was during lunch period or right at the end
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: of the lunch Blah, blah, blah. We've already gone through this.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Did you handle the. 22 rifle? No, not that I recall.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: He handled the bigger gun, the. 30- 06. Um, so again,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: he's showing off his purchases to his co-workers, is how
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: I read this. Um, so let's go to Mr. Shelley here.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Um, he.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Gets sworn in. Um, Did you recall seeing a couple
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: of guns in the TSBD building on November 20th, 1963? Yes, sir.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: Just outside Mr. Truly's office on the will call counter.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Whatever that is. And how did they get there? Mr.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Warren Castor had just purchased them and bought them and
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: stopped by to see us. Did you handle the guns?
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I held the 22, Shelley says. And was there another
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: make of gun too? There was, wasn't there? Yes, I
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: believe there was a 30-06 Mauser that had been converted.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: It was a foreign make converted to a 30-06. Did
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: you handle that? No. So, again, multiple corroborations here.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: And, uh.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Cooperation.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's what we like to look for.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Um....
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: And I guess this is more of the same. I'm
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: going to skip this. And you can take this down, Rob.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: I'm going to put up something else. An article that
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: I found very interesting. Because Warren Castor never tried to
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: insert himself into the case. He didn't go on, you know,
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: the men who shot Castor. killed Kennedy, or really talked
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: to many other researchers. He never wrote a book. He
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: just kind of kept to his own. Now, is that sus?
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Or is that just like, I don't want anything to
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: do with this type of thing?
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Well, he wasn't in the Navy, which means he was
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Naval Intelligence... Legit.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Are you being serious? No. Okay, good.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I'm making a leap.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: All right, yes. Which is, of course, what a lot
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: of people like to do. So let's read an article.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: Let me get this window up here. And you could
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: put this up. And it goes, what's in a name?
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: The true story of Ward Caster, the man who brought
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: two rifles into the TSBD two days before the assassination,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: by Rick Caster. No relation, allegedly.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: But... Mr.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Rick Caster is a founder member of DP UK, Dealey
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: Plaza UK.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: And was the group... treasurer for the first five years
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: in its existence. The article was first published in the
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: Assassination Chronicles, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, introduction. Very occasionally,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: while researching the assassination of JFK, something jumps out at
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: you from the pages of a book and makes you ask,
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: I wonder. This happened to be me as I was
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: reading Priscilla McMillan's Marina and Lee. What caught my eye
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: was the name, that of Warren Castor. an employee at
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: the TSBD at the time of the assassination. The name
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: Castor is fairly rare here in England across the pond,
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: and I began to wonder whether this man, with whom
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I share a surname with, was still alive. I began
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: to speculate on what sort of people the stateside Castors were.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: More importantly, I wondered whether Warden Castor was not only
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: still alive, but maybe in a position to further my
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: knowledge of the assassination. So respect to him. He's, you know,
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: tracking the dude down and asking some questions. My first
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: step was to contact my friend and fellow researcher Ian Griggs,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: also affiliated with DPUK, who has... The Warren Commission, 26 volumes.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: He confirmed to me that Warren Castor had testified before
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: the Warren Commission, which we just read, and he sent
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: me a complete copy of the testimony from what I
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: learned at the time. He had lived in Merrill Road, Dallas.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: That's 3338 Merrill Road.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: Right, well, I mean, what's the.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: I'm skipping over the unnecessary stuff. For the price of
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: an airmail stamp, I felt it would be worth writing
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: to that address to see if Warren Castor still lived there,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: and indeed if he were still alive. Three weeks after
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: writing a full and detailed letter about myself and my
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: research into the Kennedy assassination, I was delighted to receive
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: a letter bearing an Albuquerque, New Mexico postmark, of course.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: If you're paying attention in the chat here, you would
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: know that he was from New Mexico. I had obviously
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: been expecting one from Dallas, but it was from Warren Castor,
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: and he was very much alive. Then, Warren explained that
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: he no longer lived in Dallas, but his son David
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: now had the house on Merrill Road, so he gave
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: it to his kid, and forwarded my letter to Warren.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: To my amazement, Warren stated that he shared my interest
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: in tracing the Castor name. So that was kind of
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: like his in, right? It was like, you know, we
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: got the same last name, right?
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean... That's crazy, man.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: Crazy.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Bizarre.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: I could tell from the tone of his letter that
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Warren was willing to talk to me about the Kennedy assassination,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: albeit on the day it happened he had been out
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: of town on business. We continued to correspond by mail,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: by telephone for several months. Then Warren invited me to
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: visit him at his home in Albuquerque. I decided to
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: incorporate my visit with another trip to Dallas with Ian.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: So they crossed the pond to talk to him, which
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: is kind of crazy, who had already booked a trip
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: to San Francisco via Dallas. The meeting. Arrival in Dallas,
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: Monday 5th, 1995. I telephoned David, Warren's son, to confirm
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: that everything was going according to plan. I was taking
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: a back to learn that Warren had suffered a bad fall,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: broke his hip, and was, in fact, in the hospital. However,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: David assured me that Warren had no wish to affect
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: our visit, and he was looking forward to meeting me.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: After two days in Dallas, Ian and I flew to Albuquerque,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: New Mexico, where we were met at the airport by
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Warren's wife, Ruth Anna. She drove us straight to the
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: Love Lance Hospital, where we had great pleasure of meeting
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Warren Castor. He was in good spirits, and we spoke
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: at length about England and our family's surname. Warren then
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: assured me he was perfectly happy for me to write
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: an article about his recollections of November 22, 1953. He
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: was so enthusiastic that he urged, let's get on with it.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: The following is a story as it was related to
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: me by Warren Castor during visits to him in the
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: hospital over two days. So again, this is like really
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: the only account of Warren Castor after the documents I showed, right?
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: After the FBI, after the Warren Commission. And this is in, what, 95?
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Warren Castor was born on, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: New Mexico. two sons, we already know this, we already
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: saw the picture of the store I put up. The
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: offices of the Southwestern Building were rented from the TSBD,
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: and on November 23rd, or November 1963, Warren was the
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: district manager for his company. His office was situated on
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: the second floor. The two rifles, Warren Castor's association with
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: the Kennedy assassination being quite innocently on Wednesday, November 20th,
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: In 1963, he had gone to lunch and stopped at
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Sanger Harris, that's that building we showed, a large sporting
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: goods department store, to look for a rifle for his
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: elder son William's Christmas present. The store's no longer there.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: He bought the. 22, the Mauser, and returned to work.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: We already went over this. Inside the book depository on
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: his way back to the office, Warren met his best
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: friend Roy Truly, or met his friend.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Roy.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: The TSBD superintendent, and he showed me the two rifles
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: to Mr. Truly. And he showed the two rifles to Mr. Truly,
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: who picked up the larger rifle, the Mazda, also present
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: at this time was Mr. Bill Shelley, manager of the
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: distribution department. I believe it's miscellaneous department, right? But whatever.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: And a small group of employees, one of whom Warren
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: recalled was Lee Harvey Oswald. Now, This is where I'm
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: going to stop and speculate. So they're outside of Truly's office, right?
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: You're thinking first floor, right?
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: This dude who just made a purchase of a couple
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: guns is showing it off. And whether Lee Harvey Oswald
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: passed by and looked or didn't, doesn't really mean much
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: to me. Because, like I said, when you're in an
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: office and people are bringing in new toys or something
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: they purchased, you might stop and glance, right? I don't
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: think it's super crazy.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: No.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: After approximately 10 minutes of handling and analyzing, studying the rifles,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: the group broke up and wore and replaced the weapons
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: in their boxes. He took them to his office, and
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: they remained until 4 o'clock when he took them home.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: The day of the assassination, well, it says Thursday, November
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: 63 was just another normal working day, but Friday 22
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: was to be anything but normal, although he did not
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: know it at the time. He was aware of the
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: scheduled presidential visit on the Friday, but he also knew
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: that he had an unavoidable business engagement that day. he
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: had to attend North Texas State University at Denton, 35
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: miles north of Dallas, Texas, to meet Michael Payne. I'm
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: just kidding. Dr. Vernon Payne. He would thus be unable
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: to watch the presidential motorcade, as it drove past the TSBD.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: On the 22nd, Warren set off for Denton, Texas, completed
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: his business, and had lunch with Dr. Payne, and as
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: he was preparing to leave for home, Some students asked
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: them if they had heard the news about the attempt
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: on President Kennedy's life. Little more was known at this time,
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: and it was believed the president was still alive. The
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: amazing news for Warren was that the shots had been
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: fired from Indely Plaza. Warren tried to contact his office
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: by telephone, but all lines were engaged, so he immediately
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: left the university to begin his drive home. On the way,
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: he stopped at Farmer's Branch in the northern suburbs of
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: Dallas and managed to get through to his wife at home.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: He then learned the tragic news that the president had
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: died of the gunshot wounds he had received. Much to
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Warren's horror, Ruthanna, his wife, added that the TSBD had
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: been sealed off and it was believed that the shots
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: had come from the building. Warren battled his way through traffic.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: He battled. and eventually managed to reach home. Like millions
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: of fellow Americans and others throughout the world, he then
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: followed the continuous TV coverage as much more information and
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: events began to unfold. As soon as it became apparent
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: that a suspect had been arrested and he was named
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: Lee R. Oswald, Warren knew him and he told me,
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: I used to see him frequently eating his lunch in
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: the lunchroom, but he was unaware. a weird sort of guy,
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: and kept to himself. And I guess the second floor
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: lunchroom was very close to his office, Mr. Castor's office,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: which would make sense, right? Second floor. The last time
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Warren could recall having seen Oswald, so this is my
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: problem with this what is it, 63, 70, 80, 90,
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: more than 30 years later, now he knows Oswald.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: But, of course, he did not say that initially. But,
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: of course, when you're old and you're dying and you
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: just broke your hip, maybe you're going to embellish some things.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know. It's speculation. But he did not say
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: this initially. He did not say this in the Warren
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: Commission testimony or the FBI report or anything. The last
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: time Warren could recall having seen Oswald was two days
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: before when Oswald had been one of the small group
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: of TSBD employees who were examining Warren's two newly purchased
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: rifles before returning to work after their lunch break. At
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: this point in the interview with Warren, his wife recalled
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: a moment she said that while she was watching TV
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: and waiting for Warren to get home from Denton, Texas,
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: she had watched Air Force One fly over en route
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: to Washington, D.C. with the president's body on board. She
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: could still remember this vividly with great sadness. The following days,
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: Warren told me that he returned to the book depository
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: on Saturday the 23rd, right? Which is, in theory, supposed
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: to be a day off, but who knows, you know?
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: And their younger son, with his wife and their... his
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: younger son David. He recalled that he had no trouble
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: entering the building. In fact, it was rather quiet. As
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: far as he could remember, the sixth floor was not
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: sealed off, although he did not venture that far. He
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: merely collected some paperwork from his office and returned home.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: Warren then recalled the events of Sunday, 24th, which, of course,
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: is the date of when he was interviewed by the FBI, which, Rob,
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: I was thinking about this. At what time do you
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: think he was interviewed on the 24th? If you think
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: 1130-ish being the time Ruby shot Oswald. Like, was it after?
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: I can't see it being before, really.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little too early.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: Anyways, we digress. Together with his family, he sat down
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: to watch the transfer of Oswald.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: From the city jail. But for the FBI to interview
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: him after Oswald is dead... pretty significant. Normally, you know,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: we had the FBI waiting until after, you know, President
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Johnson said that there was going to be a warrant
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: commission and the FBI was going to be the investigative
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: body and all that. And, I mean, the FBI was
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: helping out the Dallas police with the evidence processing at
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: that point, but after Oswald is killed, there's really no
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: reason for them to hang around Dallas and question witnesses
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: on the 24th.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: But, whatever.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the timing of the interview, it seems to
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: imply it was before, but that really doesn't make sense
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: to me, but who knows? I mean, it's not in
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: the report at what time exactly it was. I asked
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: Warren Castor what the atmosphere was like inside the TSBD
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: building following the assassination. and the killing of Oswald, he
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: recalled that after the initial shock, there was a strange
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: kind of buzz about the place, but before long, everything
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: returned to normal. Whoever, in an easy calm, remained throughout
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: the building. Whatever that means. So, he talks to the
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Warren Commission testimony, blah, blah, blah, I'm not gonna rehash that,
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: we already read it, um, What might have been, and
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: I guess this is another picture of Castor here, although
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: it's horrible. As I was beginning to wind down the
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: interview on the second day at the hospital.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Here's the picture of him.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Ah.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Oswald lookalike, Rob. Yeah. I'm joking, of course. Huh. He
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: kind of looks 45 there. As I was beginning to
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: wind down the interview on the second day at the hospital,
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Warren related one darkly interesting story to me. A very
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: good friend, Roger Williams, had telephoned Warren on Thursday the
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: 21st and asked if they could meet in Warren's office
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: the following day to watch the presidential motorcade as it passed.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Warren explained that he had to be in Denton that day,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: the 22nd, and so would miss the motorcade himself. He
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: added that it would be useless to watch from his
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: office window on the second floor as the view to
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: the street would be obscured by the trees. The ideal
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: place to watch, Warren told Williams, would be up on
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: the sixth floor, where the view was better. Williams thanked
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Warren and said that he would go to the trademark
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: to watch the president there instead. I really don't know
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: what to make of this guy, Williams. There's not much
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: on him. Let's see. One important question, which I almost
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: forgot to ask Warren Castor, was who he thought had
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: killed the president that day. Warren replied in a very
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: positive tone, to sum it up, I think Lee Harvey
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: Oswald killed JFK.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: I just can't speculate, except to say that he really
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: was some kind of nut. It's a little bit of
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: a problem here. Um, I mean, he's obviously a lone nutter, caster,
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: but he went to not knowing him to now knowing
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: him and having some opinion, right? Which is a problem.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: I thanked Warren for his time and wish him a
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: speedy recovery since returning home to England. I've spoken on
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: the phone with both him and his wife and he
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: had been convalescing well at home. Um, In the late 90s,
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: the Castor family relocated to North Carolina where both rifles
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: remained in the possession of the family. Warren later returned.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: I wonder where those rifles are now, Rob. I mean,
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: not that I'm super interested, but it would be interesting.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: I'm sure it's with those kids, right? Warren later returned
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: to New Mexico, the state of his birth. He died
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: there in September 2001, 25 years ago. Another little.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: Eleven days after 9-11 on September 22nd.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: Yes. So... It must be stressed that Ruthanna, his wife,
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: has no connection whatsoever to the lady named as Ruth
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: Payne in the 1995 book The Men on the Sixth Floor.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Or Ruth Ann.
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: Or Ruth Ann. By Glenn Sample and Mark Colm. The
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: lady was described as definitely Hispanic. This is... not Warren
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: Castor's wife. Written by Rick Castor, the British researcher. So,
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: you can take that down now, Rob. Stop sharing. What
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: are we to make of this? Coincidence? Conspiracy?
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Just bad fucking timing, I think.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: I think so, too.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just one of them things with this
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: case where it's just it's just bad timing. You know,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's just a coincidence. I think his story
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: probably checks out. He bought it right before his kid
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: for Christmas and he bought it on his lunch hour.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: So he brought it back in the building with him
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: cause he was going to hide him there away from
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: his kid. And of course he's probably walking in and
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Roy truly was like, Hey, what you got there, buddy? Well,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: let me show you.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: And then he decided it was probably a bad idea
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: to leave them in his office. They might get stolen.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: There were a lot of skafoozas working there.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: So it's a good thing he didn't leave them in
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: his office. And then it's a good thing he didn't
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: invite his buddy over and go to the sixth floor
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: the next day. Things could have went a lot different.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It really could have, actually.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: So I....
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: Land on the coincidence theory as well. I think this
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: dude was a teacher and a nerd with a master's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: degree and, uh, irregardless of serving in the Navy for
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: two years, like, and, like, buying guns, which in early
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: 60s in Dallas wouldn't have been that sus, right? Um,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: just was the victim of of a bad coincidence and
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: of course this has been talked about when i first
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: heard the story very early in my journey i was
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: like oh my god this this guy brought him in
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: right and now i'm thinking like there's no way you
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: would do that it makes no sense to go and
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: show it off and then plant plant it if you
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: will if say the carcano was a mouser yeah for argument's.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Sake And you look at the Lugo, you know, we
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: touched this on members only this week. Yes, there were
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: other weird people in this school book depository. And again,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: this was a bottom of the barrel type job. Like
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: you had to be a skafooza to work there in
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: the warehouse, right?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: You have to put that word in your resume.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: So, you know, you're going to, you know, you're scraping
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: the bottom of the barrel here. with folks. And it's
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: not trying to disparage them, but it was like a
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: very low paying job. The equivalent to, you know, working
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: at McDonald's today or whatever. And nothing, not that there's
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: anything wrong with that. It's just, it's a low paying job.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: You know, certain people don't qualify for high paying jobs
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: and they're just stuck in the cycle of working low
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: paying jobs. Sometimes they can get out of it. Sometimes
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: they can't. And You're going to have a lot of
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: different skafoozes if you're not paying any money. You know?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: And in order to make more money, you can't have
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: a conviction for stealing guns from the military and reselling them.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Nobody's going to hire you, but a place like this would.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're selling textbooks. I mean, you know these
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: motherfuckers ain't reading them. So chances are they ain't going
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: to steal them. Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: And again, this guy was a teacher. He had a
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: master's degree. I don't see him as a nefarious figure.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: And if you were devil's advocate, like being sus, why
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: walk into the fucking lobby and like show off the guns?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: It would make no sense.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: No, I agree. But conveniently absent on November 22nd, 1963,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Much like the next Cafuza we're going to be talking about,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: also conveniently absent from his job at the School Book
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Depository on November 22, 1963. And that individual would be
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Frankie Kaiser, Joe.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Old Frankie Kaiser. And I'll tell you why Frankie Kaiser
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: is important to the story. Allegedly, He had not planned
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: to be off, but he had an abscessed tooth. So
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: he needed to be off to go to the dentist
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: because his tooth was bothering him. You know a lot
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: about this.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: I was there yesterday.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, man. Now, Frankie Kaiser had worked there. since 1962,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: so by the time of the assassination, he'd already worked
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: there like a year and a half. And he was
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: an order filler, much like Oswald. In fact, while Frankie
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: was not there that day, somebody named Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: co-opted the use of Frankie Kaiser's clipboard to use to
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: pull books. This is said clipboard. Now, it don't look
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: like much of a clipboard to me. Frankie Kaiser said
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: that he made it out of paper, tape, and like
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: a piece of poster board or cardboard. So he basically
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: took a piece of cardboard, wrapped it in paper and tape,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: and called it a clipboard. I don't know where the
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: clip is. Maybe he was using paper clips. I don't know.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: But they asked him, how did you know it was
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: your clipboard? He said, well, I've written my name all
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: over it. Now, yes, this is upside down, and no,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: I did not do this. The FBI are skafoozes. They
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: took the picture upside down. But, I mean, you see
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: these very flowing signatures on here. I don't know if
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: they say Frankie Kaiser or not.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: It's impossible to tell.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: It's impossible to tell. I mean, these are all both,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: you know, it looks like the phone number maybe or
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: birth date or locker combination. Who knows what's all on here?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: License plate. Who knows? But that's the clipboard in question
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: that was found by Frankie Kaiser. He found his own clipboard, uh,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: I think it was a week or two after the assassination.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: And I'll show you where he found it at, Joe.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Okay, please do.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: All right. So he found it on the sixth floor.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Very close to the exit from the sixth floor to
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: the stairs. Okay.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: As you'll see here. This is on the grassy knoll
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: side of the building. Right. All right. The stairs are
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: somewhere close by. I don't know where. I think to
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: the right somewhere.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to the right, I think.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: But allegedly, he found the clipboard stuffed in between all
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: these boxes.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Right. Despite, you know, A gazillion police searching the sixth
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: floor could not find this. This is Frankie Kaiser Exhibit
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: A from the Warren Commission exhibits, and this is where
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: he said it was.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, can I ask a question here?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: Do you think that it's implied that Oswald used his
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: clipboard because.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: He was out there? Yes, there was a clipboard. There
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: were orders on there that Oswald was filling that day. Partially.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: And then it's like he quit doing it. Because, you know,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: he had to shoot the president and get the hell
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: out of the building. Allegedly.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: Allegedly. Yes, very allegedly.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: So here is a different angle of And this is
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: from the day. And unless it is sitting in a
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: different way, Joe, I don't see the clipboard in this one.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: Hold on.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Now you can see this Caffooza Dallas policeman.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: Right. Stairway to the right.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: Stairway pointing that way. Which this sign was not in
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: the picture that I just showed you. And you can
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: see the stack of boxes looks kind of the same,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: but not exactly. And I don't see the clipboard in
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: here anywhere anymore.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: So is this from November 22nd? Or is this after?
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Like way after?
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: Wait, could that be it up top there?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: That thing?
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No. No.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: No, in the other picture it was like right here.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: You saw all these vertical stacked boxes, right?
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: And it was like sitting right here.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I know. I just kind of look like it,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: if you know what I mean.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know either.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know. let's take a look at another picture
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: of this area. Yeah, this is, this is it.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: So here's a better, bigger picture of the stairway sign.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: No smoking, which Bonnie Rae Williams said, fuck that, I'm
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: smoking my cools, man.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: I respect that, Bonnie Rae.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: I'm smoking my Newports. I don't care what anybody says.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I respect that.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: Now, you can see all of these book boxes, right? Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: And all the way on the very right side is
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: circled in red, allegedly where the clipboard was found.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: Right, and there would have been another stack to the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: right of that circle. Correct, yeah.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: So, interesting, right? Mm-hmm. So, you see the, so if
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: Oswald was up here, I mean, I guess they're implying
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: that he hid this clipboard on his way out of
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: the state, you.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: Know, To stash the rifle.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe he stashed the rifle over to the
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: left of the pole here in some of these boxes
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: that are on the skids and stuffed his clipboard over
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: here on this side of the boxes for some reason. Allegedly.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: And is it me? I mean, it could be a flap.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: It's probably a flap. But If you look right here, Joe,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: does that look like a paper bag laying on this box?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: Or is it just like a flat? Or could it
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: be a box or a book just like these books
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: are laying around on some boxes? I can't zoom. Well,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: maybe I can zoom in. Probably just books.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: It looks like a folder of some sort, maybe. It's
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: really hard to tell. I wouldn't say it's a book.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's other books laying on top of boxes,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: so it's reasonable to assume that it's a book.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. That's true.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: It could be a very thin book, you know, like
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: this one. It doesn't have to be a big one
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: like this. That's what she said. Interesting to get the perspective.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, see the six-floor sign there?
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, dude, this place was grungy dirty, right?
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Like, filthy dirty. Like, no wonder they were replacing the
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: floors in this. I mean, this photo right here is really...
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: You can see how nasty it was up there on
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: the sixth floor. When we look at this one again.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: See how this one's missing? I mean, maybe the stairway
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: sign is over here where we can't see it. That's
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: probably right. But, man, I don't know.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, that kind of looks like a clipboard, but
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: it's really hard to tell.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, you have to remember, they're moving shit.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: This is the Warren Commission exhibit that Frankie Kaiser said,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: this is it. This is where it was.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: So, I mean... this is what you gotta go with.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: Position of clipboard when discovered. And, you know, Kaiser Exhibit A.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: So, very odd.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And you'd think, Rob, that, like, there would be
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: more focus on the clipboard. I mean, maybe, maybe not,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: but If Oswalt was using it that day, that there
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: would be a lot more concentration towards it from authorities
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: and not found way later.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you would think that somebody would be keeping
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: track of what he's doing. Somebody would have to be
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: giving him an order to fill. he would have to
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: be filling it within a certain time period and then
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: getting it checked, dropping them off, getting them checked, and
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: then being given another order to go pick. You know
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Because Oswald wasn't a six-floor floor layer. You know, he
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: was working as an order picker that day. So I
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: think it'd be kind of important.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: I would think so, too.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: So who was Frankie Kaiser?
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: Who?
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: This is Frankie Kaiser.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: Look at this striking fellow.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: It's like a young Joe Borelli.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: Here we go.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can imagine. I mean, this is a
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: young picture of him, right? When he's probably like 12.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: But you can imagine what he looks like at 18
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: or 20. You can imagine he would be Oswald looking, Joe.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I could imagine. from a glance. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: You know, he's got the dark hair, clean cut, you know, skinny, nothing,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: nothing outlandish to be like, you know, this is not,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: this could not be Oswald. You know what I mean?
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: Other than his nose.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe, maybe he grew into it. Unlike you.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: Here we go.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: Um, So, yeah, that's Frankie Kaiser at a young age. Now,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: let me show you Frankie Kaiser just a wee bit older.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: A wee bit.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: A wee bit older.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: Jack, what's up, buddy? He does kind of look like
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: Buell a little bit. I will say.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: It's not, like, that far off.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: Like, if you were to just, like, pass them, like,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: you could easily mistake them. That's a good observation.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: The next picture I'm going to show you is Frankie
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Kaiser from the 70s after he had gotten out of
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: the military and he was an armed security guard. And
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: this is a horrible 70s photo, folks. It kind of
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: looks like Jim Croce on crack. Check this out.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow. Yeah. That is so... Would you say it
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: was 70s, 80s?
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: This is the 70s.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: 70s.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: Very 70s looking.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: Very 70s looking. Horrible photo quality. Horrible.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm just saying, like, guys look like that in
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: the 70s.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: Porto mustache, you know?
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, listen, I... My dad, although not born
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: in the 70s, still sports this mustache. I don't think
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: I've ever seen one without one. It's just like what
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: people did back then. Yeah, true that.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Now, what's interesting, too, is that Frankie Kaiser didn't just
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: find the clipboard of Oswalt's, Joe. No, never.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: No, there is more.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: There is more. Let's see. Hold on. Pull this up.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: He also found in the domino room allegedly Oswald's coat.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: His dark blue coat. And I don't believe this was
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: found until a month after the assassinations. You know, the
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: cops and everybody else missed this somehow. It was on
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: the windowsill above the heater in the domino room. But
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Frankie Kaiser found it and turned it over to the FBI. Weird.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Allegedly Oswald's coat.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: Weird.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 3: And by the way, you know, When you talk about
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: Oswalt and his character, I don't think he'd just leave
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: a coat unless he was really, really in a rush.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Well, see, the thing is, I mean, this is a
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: heavy winter coat for Texas, right? This is not a jacket.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: This is a coat. And by all accounts, from what
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Buell Frazier said, because they asked him what type of
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: coat was Oswald wearing that day, and he said it
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: was like a gray flannel coat. Well, this is definitely
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: not gray, and it definitely ain't flannel.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: That is true.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: But when they asked Marina what kind of coats that
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: Oswald owns, she said he owns a dark blue one
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: and a light gray one or a khaki or tan
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: or whatever. She said he does not own a gray
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: flannel coat. So was Frazier mistaken? Or is Marina lying?
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: Or who the hell knows, right?
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: This is the inside of, again, the FBI loves to
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: photograph shit upside down for some reason. But you can
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: see all the initials. It was turned over, I believe,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: on December 17th, 63. And they dated it right here.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: Wait, wait, what's the date again? December?
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: 17th.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: 17th.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: So that's, yeah, you're right. Almost a month after the assassination.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: Yep, and then it was initialed over here, I guess, again, 12-1963.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: By somebody. And again, it's labeled, Blue Zipper Jacket Belonging
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: to Oswald. So, what are the odds that Frankie Kaiser,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: a guy who wasn't in work on November 22nd, 1963...
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Due to a toothache, Joe would manage to find his
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: own missing clipboard and Oswald's alleged jacket. I mean, he's
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: finding all kinds of shit that the police missed.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess he missed his calling.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little bit of a problem.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a problem, yes. All right,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: let's see here.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: And, of course, Oswalt never got the opportunity to go, if,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: for say, for argument's sake, that was his jacket and
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: he left it in the dobro room, he would not
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: have had the chance to go back there, right? But
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: a month later.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: Well, he could have grabbed it on the way out.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, if it was his jacket. I mean, he
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: went back to his rooming house to get a jacket.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: But if he already had one at the school book
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: depository and he just was in such a hurry to
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: get the hell out of there, he just left it.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Now he wants to go all the
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: way home just to get a jacket? I don't know.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: Doesn't make sense to me. I don't think this is
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: Oswald's jacket, but they say it is, so whatever.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: But why? Why would they Was it to, like, try
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: to convey, like, oh, he left in such a rush,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: he left his jacket type of narrative?
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, again, he turned this over. Let me
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: show you. I can show you better than I can
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: tell you. So the Dallas office submitted, this is December 31st, 63.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: The Dallas office submitted to the lab a blue jacket
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: recovered from the school book depository on 12-16-63. This jacket
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: was positively identified as being Oswald's by his wife and
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: was submitted for gunpowder residue hair and fiber examinations. Several
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: head hairs were found in the debris removed from the
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: jacket that microscopically matched known head hairs from Oswald, Joe.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: 1963 forensics.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was going to say.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: Like what? And where was she staying, Marina, at that time?
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: With the Martins. Oh, okay.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: Had to throw that in there.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: None of the textile fibers previously removed from the rifle
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: used in Kennedy's assassination could be associated with this jacket,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: and no gunpowder residues were found on the jacket. Which means,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: if he ever did shoot the damn gun, his Carcano,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: before November 22, 1963, while wearing this coat or jacket,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: He obviously did not do that wearing a coat, this coat, right?
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: This is a report setting out the above results as
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: being prepared for the chief. Now, here is a picture
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: of where it was found in the domino room. Again,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: this is a window right here. You can see the
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: reflection of the radiator, right? This is the guy's finger, right?
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: He's pointing to the exact spot in the windowsill where
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: the jacket was found. Apparently there's all kinds of other
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: discarded shit up in here. Yeah, what's up with that?
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: I'm like trying to figure out this photo here.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the domino room, man. You know, shit, man.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: We just throw our wrappers in there and trash and shit,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever. Old newspapers Oswald was reading. We just
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: throw them in there, you know. I don't know. But again, allegedly,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: this is where the jacket was laying. In the school
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: book depository. In the domino room. Detail of the windowsill.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: Showing the place where the jacket was found. This is
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: Kaiser Exhibit C. From the Warren Commission exhibits.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Uh.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: KBJ. His initials are on the jacket.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: One jacket color blue with gray quilted lining, zipper front,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: boring manufacturer's label of Sir Jack. It was a Sir
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: Jack jacket. Item was found in a school book depository
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: and unclaimed. May have been Oswald's. And Roy Truly gave
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: it to him. So I guess Kaiser turned it over
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: to Roy Truly who turned it over to the FBI.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: Let's see here.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: What is this? James Clark LaRue found a coat on
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Industrial Boulevard under the Fort Worth Turnpike. This coat was
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: given to Lieutenant Kaminsky and released it to the Homicide
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: and Robbery Bureau. LaRue is not an employee of the
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: subject organization, which would be the School Book Depository. Oh,
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: so now they're just randomly finding jackets all over Dallas.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: Oof, what a mess. Let's see.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this has anything to do with
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: the jacket. It's from a file, a thick file, talking
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: about the coat found. But maybe this one's talking about
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: the gray jacket.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: Here we go. Marina was questioned further concerning clothing jackets,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: which had been owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. She said
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: to the best of her recollection, Lee Harvey Oswald had
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: only two jackets, one a heavy jacket, blue in color,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: and another light jacket, gray in color. That's it. She
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: said she believes Oswald possessed both of these jackets while
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: in Russia and had purchased them in the United States
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: prior to his departure for Russia. She said she cannot
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: recall that Oswald ever sent either of these jackets to
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: any laundry or cleaners anywhere. She said she can recall
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: washing them herself, like a slave, without a washing machine.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: She advised to her knowledge Oswald possessed both of these
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: jackets at Dallas on November 22, 1963. And this is
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: after she moved to her new house in Richardson, Texas, Joe.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: On April 1, 1964. Wally Heitman. Anytime you see this
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: guy's name, he was the Dallas Cuban watcher for the
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: FBI in Dallas, which is interesting that he's talking to Marina. Interesting.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: Especially in April.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: It's weird.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: Wally Heitman. That's just a duplicate. That's about the jacket
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: behind the Texaco station. Same thing. Just making sure that
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: there's not more about the blue jacket that Kaiser found.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: We could do a whole show on the gray jacket.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 3: We could.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 3: Maybe we shall. Who knows?
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: There is a lot. There might be some things for.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: Members.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: Only.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: Members only, part two.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: If you will. So, again, Marina says that this jacket
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: was Oswald's. Now, just... if you could see if you
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: can dig up and Google for me the picture where
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: Oswald is in Russia wearing sunglasses, chilling with his buddies.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: You know which one I'm talking about?
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, he's like kind of laying down.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got a jacket on in that photo. I
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: just want to see if it looks like this one.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: That might be able to tell us... That might be
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: able to tell us.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, man.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: You're going to have to.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 4: Hold on.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: I'm going to have to share my tab here.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: Joey Tabs.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: Joey Tabs. I mean.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 4: Google images is horrible googly here we go alright.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: That is not it no I have a oh share
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: this tab instead I'm sorry.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: There we go zoom in on that motherfucker man okay Now,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: that's definitely not a light gray jacket or the almost
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: white one that was found by the Tippett murder scene, right?
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 5: Correct.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: So take a good look at the collar of this jacket, right?
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: Right. You can see on the left side, if you're
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: looking at the picture, I'm circling. Yeah.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: Now, to me... That looks like almost a dark gray
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: flannel color. But I could be mistaken. Yeah.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: It's hard with black and white. But yes.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: That's what she said. Now, take a snapshot of this
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: jacket in your mind, people. And I'm going to make
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: it real quick and painless for everybody. All right. You
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: see that jacket. Take a real good look at it.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: Now look at this. Same jacket or no? Same jacket.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: Back off a little bit, Joe. Zoom out a little bit.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: All right. Let's look at the zipper pattern because I
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: want to... His hands look weird here. Fingers. AI, bro.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: I'm just trying to notice some details. Okay. Snapshot taken.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: All right, you see the seam running down beside the
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: zipper from the collar? It looks like an indent.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: You're talking about the one vertically or horizontally?
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: Vertically. It's running parallel to the zipper. Here? Yes.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: That should be easily identifiable in the other jacket. And
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: see these horizontal lines going across its breast?
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: Right, that's, yes, that's what I was looking at.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: All right, let's take another look at this other blue
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: jacket again.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: And damn if it doesn't have them horizontal lines in it.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: Right here. Right, and right here.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: Wait, you gotta, you gotta stop sharing my thing. There
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: you go. Hold on, let me enlarge.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: So right here is the horizontals.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: And right here, it does have a vertical line coming
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: down on each side of the zipper. Right? So let's
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: look at yours again. And you can see the horizontal
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: lines above the breast and each side of the zipper
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: has that furrow that runs along with it. Now, what
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: would really give this away is the collar. Right? Unfortunately,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: on mine, the collar's all fucked up.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: It's not laying down right. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It could be the same jacket.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: It could be.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: It could be.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: It could be. It's not crazy.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: It could be.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: It's not crazy.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: No. I mean, there are similarities, right? The horizontal lines
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: and the vertical lines. If we could see the collar,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: that would really tell us a lot more. And there
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: may be other photos of him in Russia wearing this jacket.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But it's interesting. So let me make
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: sure I got everything for Frankie Kaiser. Sewed up here.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: Before we slide over to... Somebody else.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: Somebody else?
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You'll love this.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: Timothy Rice says not the same.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one. I don't see
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: anything on there that disqualifies it off the bat.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: But.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: And you're, you're talking about a couple of years of
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: wear and tear as well.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: In Russia.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: So, yeah. And you know, yeah. So at least two
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: years of wear and tear, you know, from, from the
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: Russia picture, it could be four years of wear and tear.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: Who knows? Um, but it's interesting nonetheless. I mean, it
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: could be his, it could be not, I don't know. Um,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: But let's take a look. This is where everything takes
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: a left turn, folks. Pay attention. Okay? This is tonight's denouement.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: The moment. The reveal. The moment you've all been waiting for.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: Here's where it gets... Here is where it gets....
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: Bizarre.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Here's where it gets bizarre. All right, Joe,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: you ready for this?
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, I am.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: All right. Say hello to Freddy. Kaiser. You know who
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: Freddy Kaiser is?
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 3: I have no idea.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: It's Frankie Kaiser's twin brother.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: I can see the resemblance.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Frankie got the nose. Freddie got the ears.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: He definitely got the ears.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: Frankie got the brown hair and Freddie got the blonde hair. Right?
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: So you might be like, Rob, why are you talking
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: about Freddie Kaiser? Well, I'll tell you. It's an interesting story.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: If I can pull up the right goddamn thing here. Okay.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: All right. What's up, Tim?
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us, sir.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: All right, here we go, Joe.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: We've got a Dallas police intelligence report. from the special
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: service bureau or to the special service bureau from jack
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: revel of the criminal intelligence section okay concerning jack ruby
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: and lee harvey oswald case sir pursuant to the instructions
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: of captain ganaway the undersigned officers conducted an investigation at
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: the all right parking system at 1208 commerce with the
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: following results now What do we know about the Allwright
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: parking garage, Joe?
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: We know... Oh, man.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 6: You put me on the spot here. Wasn't it overlooking... Oh,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 6: Lee Harvey Oswald applied.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 3: For a job there.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: Ding, ding, ding.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 3: Winner, winner, chicken dinner. All right. It took me a minute,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 3: but I got it.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: And it was also very close to the Carousel Club,
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: a block away. All right. And it overlooked the motorcade route. Allegedly. Okay,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: so back to the document at hand.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 3: Mr.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: Hallmark allowed the undersigned officers to look through the applications
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: for the month of November 63. And no application was
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: found in regards to Oswald, allegedly. Mr. Hallmark did have
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: one employment application which was filled out between the 1st
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: and 15th of December 63. Okay. This application was for
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: one Fred Kaiser Jr., a.k.a. Freddy, who is Frankie's twin brother,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: who listed his last place of employment as the Texas
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: School Book Depository. What? So both of these twin motherfuckers
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: were working at the school book depository. Mr. Hallmark stated
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: that Kaiser told him he had quit that job once.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: Are we back?
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I think I lost you. Can you go back
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: to that document?
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: I lost you too. Yes.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: I think I froze.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know what just happened.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know either.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: I lost Wi-Fi for a hot second. Okay. What do
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: they call that attack?
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 3: Matrix.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: Matrix attack, yes. All right, back to the interesting document
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: where we were getting to the hot, the hot, the
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: denouement here, Joe.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: A croissant.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: A croissant. Again, Mr. Hallmark stated that Kaiser told him
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: that he had quit the job one day before the
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: assassination of President Kennedy. Now think about that for a second.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: So him and his brother Frankie work at the school
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: book depository together.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: Frankie calls in because of his tooth. And Freddy quits
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: the day before the assassination. Awfully conveniently absent on the 22nd,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: don't you think, Joe?
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: I would agree with that statement, yes sir.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: Now is this just a coincidence?
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: Or conspiracy? Coincidence. We have to make an AI thing
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: about that.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: That's a t-shirt.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: That's a t-shirt.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: So, again... The following information was taken from the application
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: of Kaiser, just so we know who the hell this is.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: Fred Kaiser Jr., white male, 24. Again, same age as Oswald. Residence,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. Telephone, whatever. Reference is Geneva Hine, who, hello,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: works in the school book depository. Are they related somehow?
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: Who would she be related to?
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: The Kaisers, I'm saying.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she is or not, but why
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: would he put her on here? I mean, are they buddies?
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: Is he banging her at work? I mean, she works
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: at the school book depository.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: Is this the woman that was allegedly given Oswald change
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: at the time of the assassination or something? I don't know.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: How do you spell it? Hold on. um but Heinz.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: What is it Geneva H-I-N-E Hein okay continue please just
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: put in Geneva Hein T-S-B-D H-I-N-E right yeah who's Joe
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: Rogan's internet searcher.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, what's his name? It's like... It's not Andrew. It's... Yeah,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 3: the dude he calls up to reach us. Okay, so
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: hold on. I think I found something.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, who was it?
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 3: Geneva Hine, only employee in TSBD second floor office, says
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 3: power went off and phones went dead in TSBD. as
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: pilot car of Motorade approached TSBD. That is a NARA report. So,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, I.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it's confirmed that she did, in fact,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 3: work there. So it's definitely a legit.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's legit.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 3: It's a legit referral, I guess the word would be.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 3: And second floor, right? When you're thinking about, well, I
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 3: guess that more relates to Castor, but still interesting.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: All right, back to this. This is definitely Fred and
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: not Frankie. In case of emergency, notify Frankie Kaiser. Also,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: the same address, 5230 West Ledbetter. Respectfully submitted. WSBGO Detective
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: Criminal Intelligence Section. And again, what does this mean? Nothing.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: It's just awfully goddamn coincidental that this is another guy, twins,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: same age as Oswald, who conveniently are absent on November
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: 22nd and who conveniently quit and didn't show up.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 3: Jamie.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. You got it. You're my Jamie. Thanks. Well,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: you're my Jamie today.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 3: You're my Jamie sometimes too. All right.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: Um, so what's interesting about, I think it was, well,
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: hang on a second. Let me look at this other one. Yeah, okay.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: So the Kaisers were born in Nebraska. Okay, this is
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: from the 1940 census. A suburb of Omaha, Nebraska. Adjacent
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: to Offutt Air Force Base. All right. They had two children,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: Fred and Francis, or Frankie. They're both one years old.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: They're twins.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 3: Not identical, but yes.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: Daddy, Fred Kaiser Sr., was a male nurse. Joe. Industry,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: government hospital, class of worker, government worker. So they lived
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: in Fort Crook, Nebraska, adjacent to Bellevue, home of the
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: present-day Offutt Air Force Base. She was a housewife. All right.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: So these are, their father was a government worker on
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: a military base when they had the boys. Not that
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: there's anything sus about that at all.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: Because we know the military would never do anything to
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: the children of officers, right?
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 3: Allegedly. Just as we jinxed ourselves there. We're so cute, Rob. Yeah,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: Now, Fred Kaiser, the blonde twin, served in the Army
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: from 1960 until February of 1962. He died in June
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: of 2004, Joe, sadly. And Frankie Kaiser actually didn't die
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: until 2018. So fairly recently. He lived a good long life.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: He was married to the true love of his life,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: Regina Sam Kaiser, who preceded him in death on March 17, 2011.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: He was also preceded in death by his parents and
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: his brother, Freddie.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: Poor guy.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, this is Frankie again, the guy who found
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: the clipboard and the jacket. He was a U.S. Army
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: veteran and a U.S. Navy veteran. And what's interesting about
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: what he did in the Navy is, He was a
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: Navy CB. Do you know what that is?
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 3: I do not.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: Well, it stands for, well, it's a nickname for an
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: abbreviation of construction builders. They go in to hot zones
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: and build things or rebuild things that normal construction crews,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: it's too dangerous to go into. Okay. All right. He
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: served in Vietnam. He attended a Pentecostal snake-worshipping church.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 3: What is that?
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: You never seen the Pentecostal snake-worshipping churches? Where they dance
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: around with snakes and praise God?
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: And have faith in the Lord that the snake ain't
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: gonna bite them? So when they start speaking in tongues
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: and dance around with snakes and shit?
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: You haven't seen that? No. I'll have to look it
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 3: up after.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: You've got some YouTubing to do after the show. That's
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: all I can tell you.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: Tune into Members Only. We'll show some of it.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: He enjoyed fishing, but Frankie's greatest joy in life, Joe,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: much like yourself, Here we go. was his beloved little dog, Prissy, who,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: after his wife passed away, became his best friend and
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: loyal companion until she recently passed away, too. This poor
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: guy lived so long that he lost everybody Yeah, that's
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: what I.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 3: Said, poor guy.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: His brother and his dog.
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 3: Damn. And his wife, brother, dog, parents.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: Yes. He did have a daughter, but that was the
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: only one that outlived him. So....
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 3: Paul, we were joking about this before the show.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: You ruined the very last joke we had, Paula. Paula.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: This is where I drop my coffee cup and it
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: shatters all over the floor. And I realize, God damn it.
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 3: What did it have on the bottom of the coffee cup?
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: It wasn't Redwood. It was.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: It was Kaiser Salsa.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: Not on the bottom of the coffee cup. We're talking
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: about usual suspects here. Yeah.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: I thought it said Kaiser Thursday on the bottom of it.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 3: All right, hold on. Let me be your Jamie.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: Jamie, look that up real quick. Go ahead and Google
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: the usual suspects, bottom of coffee cup. We're really enjoying
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: this too much.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: Kobayashi.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: Kobayashi, yes. Damn. Yeah, thanks, Will. I'm always wrong. Well,
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: not always. I've got a good track record, though.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: 99%.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Ain't too damn bad.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 3: And I meant to say Redfoot, not Redwood, but whatever.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: I got a Redfoot.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, folks, that's it for people conspicuously or conveniently
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: absent from the School Book Depository. Um, shit. What's going
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: on here? Okay.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 3: So, Rob, I have one question before we kind of
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 3: wrap this up. The Frankie Kaiser.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 3: Who applied to the Allwright parking garage.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: That was Freddy Kaiser, his brother.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 3: Freddy, Frankie, you know.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: Two different people, twins.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 3: Do you know when he applied, if he allegedly left work.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: On November 21st? It said on there, let me pull
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: it back up here.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just trying to get the timeline straight
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 3: in my head. Because that is very weird.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: Did have one employment application which was filled out between
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: the 1st and 15th of December at some point. This
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: application was for Fred Kaiser Jr. Who listed his last
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: place of employment as a Texas School Book Depository. And
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: Hallmark said that Kaiser told him he'd quit that job
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: one day prior previous to the assassination of President Kennedy.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: So he allegedly quit his job on November 21st, 1963.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: Coincidence or conspiracy? You be the judge.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 3: You be the judge.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of weird things going on, man. Yeah.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, and this is just the folks that were
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: conspicuously absent from work that day. There's a lot of
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: other SCAFUSAs that were working there. We realize this. We've
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: covered plenty of them on here before. But again, this
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: is what to expect when you're dealing with bottom-of-the-barrel type,
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: you know, a pool of people you can pick from
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: to work at the depository. It was a very low-paying job,
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: and it is what it is.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 3: I mean... Right.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, you have skafoozas like Jack Doherty working there,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 3: the challenged person, if you will. You have Lovelady with
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: automatic weapons charges and, you know, some African-American skafoozas. Not
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 3: saying that all are. You know what I mean?
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 3: And someone asked... Earlier in the chat, they said, wasn't
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 3: it was like $ 1. 25 an hour or something like that? And, yeah,
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 3: that would, like, be about, like, $ 12 an hour, right?
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 3: So you're talking, like, minimum wage-ish, like you made the
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 3: analogy with, like, a McDonald's.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's a low-paying job.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: It's a job that somebody has to take because they
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: need a job type of job. You know what I mean?
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. And it is interesting, because I want to bring
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 3: back up this point when it comes to Castor.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: And, you know, you... I.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 3: Know you and me are old enough, and I think
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of people in the chat, to remember when
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 3: you used to search for Christmas presents in the house.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 3: Go in the closet, see what you're going to get beforehand, right?
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 3: But for some reason, Castor decided... No, I'm not going
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: to risk that. I'm going to take it home. And
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 3: to his.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 5: Credit, I guess is the word, it would have been
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 5: a much bigger problem for him had two.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 3: Rifles been found in his second floor office sometime after
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 3: the assassination.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and had he gone up to the sixth floor
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: to watch a parade with his buddy, things would have
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: been different. It's crazy to think about all of the
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: what-ifs You know, when it comes to this thing. What
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: if Bonnie Rae just sat up there a little longer? Mm-hmm.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: You know? And maybe he did. We don't know the truth.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot of what-ifs here. What if Freddie
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: Kaiser didn't quit the day before? Right.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 3: What if he just put that date on the resume
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 3: to not be considered sus?
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: Well, he wasn't considered sus because he wasn't there on
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: November 22nd.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 3: Right, but I'm saying.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: But I'm saying, what if he would have been?
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 3: Right, but I'm saying, what if he would have been,
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 3: but he backdated... No.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying... No, no, no, no, no. That's not
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Joe. I'm saying, what if he would
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: have been in the building on November 22nd, 63? He
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: could have been on the sixth floor. He would have
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: been an order filler, so....
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he would have been.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: If he hadn't quit the day before, he would be
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: another person in the building.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 5: brought in like Arce and.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: No, no, that's not what I'm saying, Joe. He would
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: have been another schoolbook depository employee in the building at
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: the time of the assassination. Now, would he have been
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: out front on the steps with some of them guys?
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: Who knows? Would he have been hanging out with the
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: brothers on the fifth floor? Who knows? Would he have
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: been banging Jack Doherty in an empty bathroom on the
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: fifth floor? I don't know.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 3: Would he have been eating?
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: Would he have disturbed... Oswald on the sixth floor. Who knows?
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's just so many what ifs. What ifs?
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: What if this guy did not quit the day before?
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: What if he was there? I mean, it would be
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: an added piece to the puzzle of the already gigantically
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: messed up schoolbook depository puzzle that we already have. You
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: He could have been in the wrong or the right
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: place at the wrong or the right time type of thing.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: You know, you just don't know. Right.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 3: And you obviously have to think that his brother probably
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 3: gave him the referral for the job or helped him
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 3: get the job or whatever, right? You have to think
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: something like that happened. Before the assassination, I'm talking, yeah. Right? Like, oh,
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 3: I'm working, we need some extra work, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 3: Who knows how, if it was part-time, full-time, exactly what
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 3: he was doing, but It's very interesting to consider, yeah.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: So before we go, I don't know... I don't know
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: if you've checked recently, Joe. Are you able to get
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: on our merch site? See if it comes up for you.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: Because I have tried, and it 506s me or something.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 3: Are you on the.
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 3: Let me go to the comments here.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: More.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 3: See more. I got an HTP Air 406.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: The page isn't working.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: I'm not even seeing the link in the chat, to
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 3: be honest.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not in the chat.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 3: No, in the description. I see Silk City, The Coldest Cup.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 3: Let me go over there.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: It's not in the description. It's on our channel page.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, let me do that. Jamie is working here. My Spreadshop.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 3: There we go. Yes, I can.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: It is coming up for you.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: My link, I guess my login link is not working,
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: but We put up a new design over there in
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: case you want to check it out. It's on a
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: lot of different t-shirts and hats and other merch. Allegedly, Joe.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 3: I love it. I can't tell you how many times
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 3: in my house here with my girlfriend that she says
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 3: something and I go, allegedly. Allegedly. If I didn't see it,
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 3: it's allegedly. Yes. It is, it has become a household
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: term and it is a really good design. I'm definitely
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: going to have to order that for sure.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: Yes. And I'm working on it. We'll get there. I
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: promise shirt as well. Uh, all kinds of good stuff coming.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: But like I said, I haven't been able to get
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: on the damn site, uh, from this link that I got.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: I got on there to get this one there and
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: then the link stopped working. But, uh, Yeah, I thought
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: we needed an allegedly t-shirt because it just gets said
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: way too often here on the show. Allegedly.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 3: And deservedly so as well. Yes. Well, yeah, those are
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 3: some interesting stories of people that were sus, possibly sus,
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 3: allegedly absent from the TSPD that day. And for whatever reason,
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 3: and Of course, there are parallels to some other people
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 3: that were not there in other situations that we talked about.
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 3: So we thought that was a good parallel.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 3: I think this was a fun episode.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And also, before I get off here, Quick Hits
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: will be back live tomorrow morning, 10 a.m. Eastern, right
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: here on YouTube. So be on the lookout for the
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: link for that.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 3: Any teases? Nope.
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: Just show up and be enthralled.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 3: No teasing.
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: Alright. Grab the damn dog.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 3: Alright, folks.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you for hanging out with us here on this
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: Friday night on 9-11 as we remember the many.
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: Many fallen And never forget.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: I remember the type of country this felt like in
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: the days after 9-11. And it seemed like we got
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: along a lot better when we stood in unison against
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: such a horrible action.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: Yes. And I haven't felt it since, to be quite
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: honest with you.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 3: No, you're right. The country was very united then. Without
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 3: a doubt.
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: Now it's more divided than it's ever been. But alas,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: we are not. We will still be here bringing you
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: a JFK investigation in real time. Every Friday night at
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: 7 p.m. right here on YouTube. It's Rob Clark. It's
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 2: Joe Borelli. And it's Ruby Borelli. Hi, Ruby.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: Hi, Rob.
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 2: And it's Frankie Kaiser and his dog, Prissy. All right, folks,
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: that's it for us. We'll see you soon. Be on
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: the lookout for some ramblings, a book review, and we'll
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: see you on Members Only next Wednesday for part two
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: of this show. Until then, we love you guys.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: Peace.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: Gracias.