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Transcript

Land Banking to Financial Freedom · The Capitalizing Your Life Podcast

• 0:01
  Jamie: That was kinda where this mastery kinda word came to me. It was like, you know what? I wanna really focus on the process. The results are important, but it's not the I know the process is the most important part, and that would drive results. So, like, how can I master this process of land investing and and all the components to it?
• 0:16
  Glenn: Welcome everyone to the Millionaire Journey podcast. I'm your host, Glenn Yaney. The goal of this podcast is to guide and empower you on your journey towards financial independence. Today, my guest is Jamie Goldenberg. Welcome, Jamie.
• 0:30
  Jamie: Hey, Glenn. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
• 0:33
  Glenn: Yeah. So I was trying to do a little bit of research on you, and I found a little bit. I think we met on Twitter. So if you could, just tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 0:42
  Jamie: Yeah. So I met on X. I just commented on one of your posts. I think you were talking about kind of your journey, what got you, I think from investing in your 401 k to investing into real estate, which I had a really similar kind of path. But quick kinda high level about who I am.
• 0:58
  I'm from Kansas City. I went to the University of Kansas. I graduated from school and went abroad for a little bit, came back, was working in financial services, and then I got recruited to do a work for, like, a smaller start up company. And during that time was when I kind of was like, I know I wanna be entrepreneurial and wasn't in love with my boss at the time. And I was like, I gotta figure something out.
• 1:22
  So my older brother is a commercial broker, and I kinda took a weekend and I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, which feel like it was a very similar thing to a lot of people. And then I was like, okay. I'm getting into real estate. So from there, I started just experimenting. I kinda call it, like, my, like, real estate education student loans.
• 1:41
  I didn't have that much money, like, saved up, so I was doing everything on credit cards. So I started, you know, I think when you're in that position, it leads you to doing a lot of trying to do wholesaling. So I was attempting to wholesale. At this time, I had moved to Chicago. So I'm going to, like, pretty, sketchy areas throughout Chicago to say the least.
• 2:01
  And, you know, atop of not being successful and making money in this venture, I was also just feeling uncomfortable. And then, really, it was very, serendipitous. I went on a bike ride with a friend. He wanted to show me a cigarette dive bars around Chicago. And the last bar I went to, a bunch of, like, our friends had met up with us, and I was talking to some of them about what I was trying to do in real estate.
• 2:26
  And they're like, hey. You need to go talk to this guy. His name is Willie, who does land investing. I was like, okay. I went and talked to him.
• 2:33
  He's at the bar, and he told me about his, land investing journey and how he got into it, which is kinda similar to mine. And at that time, he had been doing it for 3 or 4 years and was absolutely crushing it. And so I eventually paid him to do some 1 on 1 coaching, and that would have been about July of 2019. And now I've been doing that ever since. So this past year is when I kind of officially quit my w two job, was able to replace my w two income.
• 3:00
  And now that I've kind of been passed from here on is just kinda just continue to grow the the cash flow and to continue to grow the net worth overall. But really simple, kind of the business model, high level, is I buy vacant lots around the country. Typically, I'm buying anywhere from, like, 25 to probably 45% market value. And then I go and relist them, resell them, typically anywhere from, like, 90 to a 100% market value. And the thing that I do, which isn't super unique, in the land business, but I do a lot of owner financing.
• 3:37
  So I sell a lot of notes. And that was how I was able to kind of create kind of, quote, unquote, passive income. And so now I have a pretty large notes portfolio of different properties from around the country, which, like I said, it's kind of like my predictable income, and I that's about 83% of my business, and then the other 17% is kind of a traditional flip. You can think about it as like flipping a house.
• 3:59
  Glenn: Yeah. Awesome. So, yeah, that's great. So tell us a little bit more about, obviously, the notes. So you I guess, tell us about a general all in cost to buy it, what you like to buy them for, and then, like, how you finance them.
• 4:12
  Jamie: Yeah. So when I first started, I one of the things that really resonate with your post on x was I I had my 401 k for my first job. And at this time, I'd I had spent basically all my extra cash trying to figure out real estate, and I was getting deeper and deeper into credit card debt. And I have, like, screenshots of these. And I remember, when I found land investing and found Willie, I was like, I really hope this works.
• 4:41
  And I took my 401 k, well, I had rolled it over already, and I took the 10% penalty. And I basically had, like, $12,000 in that, so not very much. And my goal with my coach was to say, okay. How can we buy 5 properties? So you gotta use some of that $12,000 for, you know, cost of acquiring like, you know, finding them.
• 5:01
  Like, we did direct mail. And so I ended up buying basically, with $10,000, I ended up buying 6 properties. So you can think about it like that. So with that, I bought one for, like, $300. It was a 2 and a half acre lot, kind of, like, on the side of a cliff.
• 5:14
  Very steep. I ended up reselling that one for 2,700. So crazy, like, ROI.
• 5:19
  Glenn: What does a buyer look like that That buys a $2,000 property on the side of a cliff?
• 5:24
  Jamie: I remember talking to him. I don't know what he was kinda planning to do. I mean, there's generally kind of a nice mountain area in California where we bought it, so I don't know if he's wanting to, like, try to build a home on that. I can't recall exactly what he would be buying it for. But so kind of answer your first question still is, from 29 July 2019 to probably, basically, August of this year, my average purchase price of a of a lot was roughly $4,000, and then my average sale price for that lot would be roughly $10,000.
• 5:56
  So that that's kind of, like, high level numbers. What I've done now now that I've been able to have a larger notes portfolio is I'm a little bit less focused on the financing, and I'm a little more focused on how do I go find bigger deals.
• 6:11
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Jamie: For example, I just got a property under contract, for $22,000. And in the market, properties are selling from, like, 60 to $70,000 in this area. So, you know, with that, there's more, like, closing costs, things like that. But, anyways, like, that's kind of, like, how I'm transitioning right now in my business real time. But year to date, like, my actual numbers, like I mentioned, my average purchase price is 4,000 over my, like, 4 years of doing this, and my average sale price is around 10.
• 6:40
  And then the financing piece of your question Yeah. I do pretty aggressive financing. So you think about it when you're buying a property for that cheap. I'm doing a lot of, like, b to c type transactions. So my end use buyer is a retail buyer.
• 6:55
  They're they kind of put I put them in 3 buckets. 1 is, like, they're buying as, like, I kinda say, quote, unquote, an investment. They wanna build a house there one day. They wanna just park their cash somewhere. Some areas, like, hey.
• 7:06
  I wanna go build an Airbnb in this area. Like, I have a bunch of properties in Joshua Tree, California. So I get a lot of buyers like that, who I wouldn't say, like, are maybe sophisticated investors. Maybe some of them are, but I'd say most of them are not. And they're just I kinda throw them in that investment bucket.
• 7:21
  The other bigger my second biggest bucket is, like, recreational. So a lot of my Colorado properties kind of attract a recreational buyer. They want somewhere to go camping, to ride their dirt bikes, to shoot their guns, whatever that might be. And then the last buyer is kind of miscellaneous. Could be like, I don't even talk to them, really.
• 7:37
  They're just like, hey. I want I mentioned your property. How do I get started? And it's kind of just it's that simple. So those are kind of my 3 end use buyers.
• 7:46
  But my whole point of getting to that was when you're kinda selling properties for 6, 7, $8,000 on financing notes, you're getting buyers who are typically worse credit scores, kinda lower socioeconomics demographics. So I typically am charging anywhere from, like, 10 to 12% interest on these notes, and my typical timeline is about, four and a half years.
• 8:11
  Glenn: Those aren't bad rates today.
• 8:13
  Jamie: I know. I know now it should start higher. But,
• 8:16
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 8:18
  Jamie: But, you know, just trying to find a win win, like, because when you're when you're a buyer like that, 1, it's hard to work with a bank. A lot of banks don't wanna work with you. No. And so, like, that's kind of the value I'm bringing to them. And 2, a lot of banks aren't gonna give you a loan on piece of dirt Yeah.
• 8:34
  Especially when you don't have a good credit history, you and you don't have a plan to, like, improve the value. And some of these properties they have are super rural. I mean, that's how you find cheap properties. So a lot of banks, they wanna be stuck with a property in the middle of nowhere in Colorado. So although it's a Colorado property, it's not gonna be necessarily the, the ones you're looking for in Colorado, I'd say.
• 8:56
  I I think from maybe from a bank perspective. So that's, like, the value I'm bringing to the market on the sales side. When I'm offering financing is, you know, they might not have $8,000 to pay me today, but they can give me my average note is about 175, like, my average, like, monthly payment for these notes. But so maybe they can afford something like that.
• 9:16
  Glenn: Yeah. And, really, the, if you look at buy here, pay here type car dealerships, do you think, like, they might have very high interest rates, but at the same time, they're able to get people cars, you know, just like like what you're saying with land. That seems like a very affordable way of getting land, and they might see something that you don't or either way, I would imagine that that I do believe that that land will be worth something more in the future, and you're just lending it to them as well.
• 9:44
  Jamie: Yeah. Definitely. And and, like, the the benefit too, it's like one of the things I like about this, although I've never actually owned a rental property, I know you own, like, apartment units, I believe.
• 9:53
  Glenn: Yeah. Mobile homes.
• 9:55
  Jamie: Mobile homes. Excuse me. It's like, when they default, I don't have to evict them.
• 9:58
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Jamie: Unfortunately, like, the the biggest problem I've ran into as far as, like, in a I've thrown it, like, in an eviction bucket was someone built, basically, a makeshift fence on a lot they were they were leasing or, you know, financing for me, and they put a donkey on the lot Yeah. Which wasn't illegal, but you need, like, the right permits to do stuff like that. So, basically, we had to get that resolved. That was, like, one of the biggest headaches I've dealt with as far as, like, people mistreating the land. But, you know, know, it's a little bit easier when they default.
• 10:30
  We just take back the property and we go and resell it. And sometimes that's unfortunately, for the the buyer that's defaulting, sometimes it's the best case scenario for, like, you know, me with my business hat on because Yeah.
• 10:41
  Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:42
  Jamie: A free property back.
• 10:43
  Glenn: Yeah. So with the with you're talking about the, donkey and the land, that was after you took back the land, though?
• 10:51
  Jamie: No. So he I just got notified by the county that I had to be, like I had a code violation, so then I had to go look into it. And then we I sent a photographer out there, and I got pictures back of of a just this donkey on the property. So the buyer and I, we I was like, hey, man. You gotta you can't do this.
• 11:09
  Like, not only are you breaking the county regulations, like, this is also under contract. You have access to the land, but you're not able to build on the land until you actually own it, just kinda based on the contract ahead of the time. So he got it resolved. We got the donkey taken off the property. We cleared the fence, and he is still making payments today.
• 11:29
  Glenn: Awesome. So let's go back to when you're transitioning from your w two job to, obviously, the buildup of where where you're at today. You started this, about how old were you when you started actually flipping land?
• 11:43
  Jamie: I was 27.
• 11:44
  Glenn: And how old are you now?
• 11:46
  Jamie: I'm 31.
• 11:47
  Glenn: Awesome. And so you ended up flipping land, and you found that the say in my opinion, I am the same way. I I'm not very good with, you know, flipping houses and stuff like that. It's just too much anxiety for me. But there's to build an income stream and to leave the job, it makes more sense to me.
• 12:05
  Like, as I like, I could not have left my job without an income stream behind me. You know? So I guess when you bought that that $300 piece of land, the did that guy buy that one outright? The one that paid 2,000? Yeah.
• 12:19
  Jamie: No. That one, actually, he bought it on on financing. I don't remember the exact terms.
• 12:24
  Glenn: How many notes do you think you have right now?
• 12:26
  Jamie: I have, 55 notes right now
• 12:30
  Glenn: that I
• 12:30
  Jamie: have now. Awesome. I have 22 or 23 properties in inventory right now that I'm selling.
• 12:37
  Glenn: Wow. And then how much income do you think you make a month?
• 12:41
  Jamie: I average about 10 to $12,000 a month.
• 12:45
  Glenn: Perfect. That's great. So tell us, I guess, a little bit how your life is now and, and the day to day, and, like, how other than your, besides your w two since you've left.
• 12:55
  Jamie: Yeah. Since I left, the biggest thing has just been kinda figuring out the structure of my day. Yeah. So my first, like, few weeks, it was just like, okay. I did this so I can have, like, flexibility and freedom, and I probably spent 2 weeks not doing anything and just, like, living my life and going on hikes and enjoying the weather.
• 13:14
  And then I hired a business coach, and I was like, I need some help creating structure in my life and because I think I could have quit my job much earlier in this process. I just for many re like, I think there's a couple things that come to mind. Like, there's times of doubt. Is this business model really real? Like, I'm just flipping, you know, dirt, and, like, what's gonna happen when, like, the other shoe drops?
• 13:38
  So there's a lot of that probably in my first, like, 2 years of doing this, even though all I was having was success, like, but I just didn't really believe in it fully. So so, like, you know, I was kinda working off and on. I wanna say it was, like, full time, like, this is gonna, like, change my life type thing. But, anyway so then once I kinda really committed mentally to this and I was like, okay. Like, this is I'm going all in and quitting my job, like, no matter what this year.
• 14:02
  Like, that was kinda what I told myself. So now that I've been able to do that, it's been kind of a process to figure out what's what's the routine. So I kinda try to have, like, weekly themes, and it's easier said than done. So, like, the biggest like, the lifeblood of my business is finding deals. So I, you know, I think a lot of, like, people in real estate will say you make money on the buy.
• 14:21
  Mhmm. So for me, my skill set is I am a deal finder. Like, I go out and find deals. Like, I just got 4 properties under contract in this little neighborhood in North Carolina, and I'm selling them to, like, a larger investment, like, company who, like, works with home builders.
• 14:40
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Jamie: And it's kind of exciting because I was talking to the guy, and I was like, hey. Like, you know, I'm really good at finding deals. Maybe we have more of a long term partnership here where I could kinda, like, feed you guys, and then eventually, maybe I can get some, like, equity in what you're building in the in the back end. It's kinda like what I'm trying to pitch to them. Yeah.
• 14:56
  As I but trying to build goodwill right now with them. So so I kinda have these themes of the week to get to your question. It's like week 1 of, like, a month is I try to really heavily try to negotiate deals. Like, that's kinda my I go so I'm trying to really focus on is negotiating deals on both the buy and sell side. Week 2 is I'm trying to get basically mail out the door.
• 15:18
  So direct mail is how I basically find all my deals.
• 15:21
  Glenn: Mhmm.
• 15:21
  Jamie: So then I know in 2 weeks after that, which kinda gets me back to week 1 of the next month, that's when that's when, like, the phone calls and the emails and the text messages start coming back in on the on, like, those deals. So and then so then week 2, the big thing is getting the mail out the door. Week 3 is, like, starting on my next mailer, and week 4 is kinda miscellaneous. I work with some capital partners, so one is, like, paying them, just doing admin stuff, kind of reviewing the month, and trying to close any deals that, like, are that we got under contract that 1st week. So that is the idea.
• 15:59
  That isn't always how it looks. Obviously, life comes up, things happen. And I'm human, so I get distracted and doesn't always look as pretty as it sounds, but that's kinda like my that's would be my ideal month. And then as I try to kinda pull myself more out of the business and hire more VAs and things like that, I think that'll change some more. Like, my one of my goals for next year is I really wanna hire, like, a transaction coordinator so that week 1 can be handled by someone else, and it gives me more time to go find more deals.
• 16:27
  So but it's all work in progress, but, yeah, that's my, like, kinda ideal way to look at the week. And then day to day, you know, it depends what emails come in and things like that.
• 16:37
  Glenn: Yeah. It's awesome. So when you have, like, Capital Partners, like, there's probably I guess there's not really a limit, but I would say that is it like a personal friends or is it I guess it just becomes a bigger land deal. You can always get to a bigger size is what you're pretty much doing. Right?
• 16:54
  Jamie: Mhmm. Yeah. So there's no limit. So, technically, they're joint ventures. Like, we're joint when we buy the properties, we're joint tenants.
• 17:01
  So we you know, I've I've toyed with the idea of, like, do I wanna create a fund now that I have, you know, quite a lot, like, of deals to under my belt, I have a lot of I have a really good track record, and I've grown my investor list to a decent size now where I think I could go and raise some capital and do a fun model. And but so right now, like and this is pretty typical in the land space. People will call it the investor or the capital partner, the joint venture partners, different things. I just, for easy sake of terms, like, just call them a capital partner or an investor. So, typically, the investor will come in, and they'll put down a 100% of the purchase price.
• 17:41
  So let's say the purchase price was $4,000, and then it's my responsibility to go sell the property. The investor has, like, some responsibility in this because you kind of there's certain rules around that. But, anyways, just to keep it really simple, they come in. They put the 4,000 in. I'm covering closing costs.
• 17:57
  I'm covering operating costs, marketing costs, whatever. And my goal is to go sell it basically as fast as possible. And let's just say we sold it for 10,000. Depending on who you're working with, there's different profit splits. My typical is, like, 5050.
• 18:12
  So my investor would get we sold it for 10,000. My investor would get the 4,000. Let's just easy math. Say, I would I had a $1,000 invested in this property. So we have a $5,000 profit.
• 18:23
  So an investor is taking home the, you know, the profit of 2,500 plus 4,000, 6,500, and I'm taking home the 3,500. So that would be kind of a typical deal structure that, like, I typically do depending on there's different I've worked with different partners and done different structures. There's some land investors I know who are, like who've been doing this for a decade, 2 decades plus, and they have created some capital funding companies, and they structured a little bit differently. So if you work with them, sometimes they'll they'll just take a fee. They'll provide the funding, and then they'll take a fee based on the sale price.
• 19:00
  So there's different ways to do it, but my typical way of working with investors is try to keep it really simple, explain to them, hey. Like, most likely, this is gonna go to seller financing, and this is how it's gonna look. You know, we're gonna get monthly dividends, essentially, is how you could think about it. It's taxed as income because we're not, unfortunately, these aren't rental properties, so you don't get to, like, have the, tax income. It's standard income, which is, like, that I think that's one of the negatives of the land business.
• 19:24
  You don't get a lot of the tax benefits you get from, you know, owning an apartment or owning a house. There's no depreciation of dirt. So to answer your question, it's just really simple. Partner comes in, provides the funding. I provide the closing cost, funding, and then it's my responsibility to to sell it for as much as much as we can.
• 19:41
  Glenn: Say if somebody were to go out and buy a, you know, say you have a buyer, what's like a down payment for that person?
• 19:48
  Jamie: This really depends. And you're talking about someone who comes and buys one of my properties. Correct?
• 19:52
  Glenn: Yeah. So you have you have the investor. You have yourself that's working on trying to sell the property, and then you have this, the person neighboring the property that you wanna sell. They wanna try to buy it.
• 20:02
  Jamie: So it just depends. Like, I mean, if they're buying it at the cash value and we're going through closing, it's kind of the typical 20% down. Most of the time, if they're coming in at, like, that cash price, it's only pretty quick. Like, they're not taking a loan out. So they're just they're coming in, and they're just gonna provide a 100% of the funding right away.
• 20:20
  So they'll put down they'll just put the $10,000 in, as we close. If they're doing financing, this really kinda varies. So in the land space, especially in markets that are really competitive, people will do different things. Like, there's some companies out there that will do, like, a $1 down payment, and they'll have, like, your 1st month will be the $1 down plus your 1st monthly payment, which I've done that more of some of my competitive markets. Obviously, you're taking more risk because you're not getting a lot of your your payment back.
• 20:51
  My my goal is always to break even in 2 years. Like, that's would be kind of my goal when it comes to financing. And that kind of helps me figure out what my down payment should be. But I'd say, typically, it's just it's a few $100 to maybe a maybe 2 I'd say, like, a 100 to $2,000. At this price range, it's kinda where it falls in.
• 21:12
  And so it really just depends on I'll give, different monthly options or different, like, financing options. So I'll say, if you wanna pay this off in 12 months, just pull numbers out of my out of there. But if you wanna pay this off in 10 months or excuse me, in a in a year, that's gonna be a monthly payment of $500, a down payment of $500, and, you know, the end of 12 months, you'll we'll close on the property officially. If you wanna do it over a 36 month period, maybe it's $250 a month at a different down payment. Or if you wanna do it over that 48 months, maybe it's $150 a month and maybe a $1,000 down payment, something like that.
• 21:53
  So but for me, especially, like, my first, like, 2 years of this, I was so concerned about getting cash flow Mhmm. That I didn't care so much about the down payment. It's more about can I start getting monthly cash flow? So I would do I would just kinda look what other people were doing in areas I was selling, and I would just try to be really competitive. So if someone was doing a $500 down payments, I would do $300 down
• 22:17
  Glenn: payments. 499?
• 22:20
  Jamie: Yeah. So but with that, you know, when I've done the $1 down plus the 1st month payment, what you see happen more often than not is you get more defaults. Right? Yeah.
• 22:32
  Glenn: That's what I was saying.
• 22:33
  Jamie: You might get you might get 1 or 2 payments from this person, but now I gotta go resell it. So it's kind of a balance with that. It just kinda depends on your risk profile and your need for cash and things like that. So what would
• 22:44
  Glenn: you say the thing is slowing you down from scaling?
• 22:48
  Jamie: Probably just if I'm being brutally honest myself
• 22:51
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 22:52
  Jamie: Is that I think for a long time, it was like I told you, the 1st few years, it was a lot of just, like, is this actually gonna work long term? And now it's transitioned into especially now that I don't have a w two income. It was first, it was okay. I need to, like, increase my investor base. I gotta increase my my access to capital.
• 23:11
  And now I've gotten to a comfortable spot with that where now it's deal flow, just kind of constantly finding deals. And I think digging a little deeper, it's kinda one thing I'm really working on, like, I I posted on x the other day, kind of my, like, theme for 2024, it says mastery. So for, like, mastery, what I mean by that is, like, really just, like, defining my processes so I can start to hire people out, so I can start to hire myself out because Mhmm. For example, today, I'm, like, I'm working on trying to negotiate, like, with 10 different buyers. I also that I'm trying to buy properties from sellers, I guess, to say.
• 23:47
  Meanwhile, I was just talking to a buyer this morning about one of my properties. So my time just stretched. So, really, I'm I'm kind of the bottleneck of a business.
• 23:56
  Glenn: So, yes, time would be the yeah. That makes sense. That's kinda like my thing is that I I I got a system. We manage mobile home parks and a couple apartments, and I have the office that manages most of our stuff. So that's how I got into the podcasting thing.
• 24:11
  I was like, what what else do what else do I need to add to my list? And the podcasting was more of, like, just being in front of people. And I also thought to myself that, you know, getting to meet people like yourself like, I've already talked to about 7 people with the podcast, and
• 24:27
  Jamie: Mhmm.
• 24:27
  Glenn: It's been pretty pretty interesting just on how people mostly all apartments, real estate, but it's been pretty interesting as well. But, yeah, I understand, me being in the way as well. So I see what the next to your name, it says Land Investing Club. What is it what does that mean?
• 24:45
  Jamie: So about about a year and a half ago, I had, like, a couple people. So I never was really big on social media. Mhmm. And after my first full year of of land investing, I had made, like, a little over, like, a $100,000 doing this
• 25:01
  Glenn: Mhmm.
• 25:01
  Jamie: Like, top line revenue. So not, like, what I actually brought home.
• 25:05
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 25:05
  Jamie: So I made a post about that on Facebook. And then a year later, I had, like, more than doubled that, and I made another post. And at that time, I started having people, like, kinda, like, reach out to me. You know, over the course of a whole year, people were like, oh, like, I remember you posting something like this last year. Like, wanna learn more.
• 25:20
  So I started having randomly, like, people from high school and that I just, you know, haven't talked to in forever, like, wanting to talk to me more about what I was doing. I also had seen this, like, kinda trend amongst some of my friends. So I was like, maybe I should do some coaching. And so I did a little bit of coaching, at the beginning of, 2022, and that's where the land investing club kinda was created. So I don't it's not a huge part of my business, like, this coaching side, the land investing club, but that that's what it references to is basically what I do.
• 25:52
  At least as of right now, I just I just do 1 on 1 coaching. With that, I have a course that kind of accompanies that. The course is really simple. It's just like, here's how you get started in this business. So it's just helping you get it's it's building the fundamentals of the business, walking you through that.
• 26:10
  And then the 1 on 1 piece is, you know, once a week, we're gonna have at least an hour phone call, if not longer. They have access to my, you know, to my cell so they can call or text me whenever they need. And I just I've worked with a handful of students at this point with mixed levels of interest. So that was one of the things that kind of one of the reasons I haven't really dove deep into the coaching is I what I realized is that a lot of people will sign up for something. I've done this myself, and they just don't put any effort into it.
• 26:37
  Glenn: Yep.
• 26:38
  Jamie: So I was spending time for example, one of my students showed up for every single call and never did any of the work, but he always showed up. So we always would talk for an hour, sometimes longer, and I was like, man, like, I was like, this is like it's I guess it's not a waste of my time because you've already paid me up front, but it's kind of a waste of your time. And it's kind of like one of my goals of this is I want you to have success. So it was kinda like demoralized to me up front. But, since then, I've I've been much better about not saying yes to everybody who wants to work with me.
• 27:11
  So I work with, like, a few students at a time and really try to make sure they're really motivated and what and trying to, like it doesn't necessarily need to be land. I mean, that's what I teach, but, like, I want to make sure they're motivated upfront. Like, I'm trying to figure out I have a problem in my life, and I wanna create wealth, and this is the avenue I can teach you.
• 27:30
  Glenn: Yeah. One thing I have learned with financial independence is, even though, like it was like I had when I worked in my w two job, I actually had less time to do things. Like, I was working from 8:30 to 5:30 no matter what. And then after that, I would have, whatever, a couple hours, whatever, go to bed at, like, 10 o'clock, whatever the case be. And it's now that I have time, I start to measure things in time.
• 27:56
  You know? Like, it's like, is this a waste of my time? Is this something I should really should be doing? Because the other thing I I do a lot, and and I I kind of enjoy it, but I realize it's not the most efficient way, is me driving to properties because I all of our properties are somewhat local to where I am. Okay.
• 28:11
  So I'll drive to I mean, a property might be an hour away, but I'll drive to it. I love looking at them, but I find myself realizing that I'm like, I didn't need to do this. Yeah. It's just like I'm looking to kill time. And then what I started figuring out is what's most efficient with my time, you know, like, you know, talk I feel like doing this is more efficient than driving to a property out in Brooksville for me.
• 28:33
  You know, just through talking to people just like yourself is I learned that there's, you know, systems that we have to be put in place. So, like, my new thing for my own system is that we have our property managers have to go drive the parks once a month, but we have on-site managers that go drive drive around to make they're always there. So they always they'll give feedback to the property managers, and then I come back in 3 months as I'll drive there. So what it's done is give me a lot more time to, prioritize the things that are most important. And, yeah, I could hear that with with you.
• 29:06
  Like, why would you wanna waste your time dealing with somebody that doesn't actually do the work?
• 29:12
  Jamie: Yeah.
• 29:12
  Glenn: But
• 29:13
  Jamie: It so, I mean, it's it's definitely frustrating because I definitely can, like, empathize with that. Like
• 29:18
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Jamie: Especially, like I mentioned, like, when I first I quit my job, and I was just kind of, like, basically hanging out for, like, 2 weeks. I was like, what am I doing? Like, I'm just like and I've had that kinda struggle every now and then because, I mean, sometimes things are slow, and, I mean, I could do whatever I want, which is one of the reasons I wanted to do this. But I'm not at, like, a financial level enough to be like, hey. I'm retired?
• 29:39
  Like, I made a post jokingly saying I'm retired when I first did this, kinda just to I just thought it was kind of a funny bit, essentially. Just saying like, hey. I escaped I escaped the rat race. But, yeah, when I'm sitting there and, like, thinking, like, man, what do I what am I supposed to be doing right now? Like, that brings, like, a lot of anxiety, I guess, to me.
• 29:56
  And one of the reasons I hired a a business coach was I was like, I need someone who's had success, who can help give me some guidance and be more of a mentor and and also call me on my shit when I'm not doing it.
• 30:07
  Glenn: So with the business coach, what did he kind of unravel? Like, how did he help you the most?
• 30:12
  Jamie: Well, he's been awesome. I would highly recommend him to anybody. I think, initially, it was a lot of, more than I really even realized, just overcoming my own, like, self doubts and, like, insecurities, I'd say, and really kind of digging deep into those. And it kinda sounds like talking to a psychiatrist almost in a way, but it was it was say it's different. It was very actionable.
• 30:30
  It was like, I would just talk to him about, like, hey. I trying to think of a good example, but, like, maybe I was, like, not sending out mail. And because now I don't have a w two where I'm nervous, like, I gotta be really good with my costs. I gotta be really efficient, really lean. Like, I don't wanna make a mistake and not be able to pay rent or whatever, something like that, which has not happened to me since I've quit my job.
• 30:50
  You know? I've been very
• 30:51
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Jamie: Stable financially, thankfully, knock on wood. So it was just interesting. I had, like, a lot of, like, kinda money anxiety about that type of stuff, and I was like but, obviously, I know I can look at my own numbers. Like, hey. The more I'm putting into this financially, the more I'm gonna get out of this.
• 31:04
  So, it was interesting kind of diving down that and then kinda figuring that out. And, really, he has I wouldn't be able to know I don't remember exactly, like, the the naming of this, but there's, like, these different levels of energy. I'd say, well, that's what he would say. And with that kinda help, when we kinda went through these, like, seven levels of energy and kinda understanding myself in these is it kinda helped me identify, like, okay. I'm experiencing like, I'm experiencing lethargy.
• 31:32
  I'm not, like, doing work right now. Oh, I can, like, define that as level 1 energy, and, like, that's not where I wanna be. You know, versus, like, maybe in the past, it was like, oh, like, I'm not doing anything because I don't know what to be doing or whatever it is. Like, and I kind of, like, would dig myself into that hole deeper where, like, not doing work. Like, James Clear is very big.
• 31:52
  He's, like, one of my, like, I say, role models, if you know who that is.
• 31:55
  Glenn: Yeah.
• 31:56
  Jamie: He's he's a big believer in momentum. So he will always say, like, momentum works both ways. So when you're having good momentum, like, keep your gap keep the foot on the pedal, like, because it's momentum's gonna carry you. But once you hit the brakes, like, that momentum will start taking you back the other way. So it was kind of a way for me to define that in my life.
• 32:14
  So that's number 1. Number 2, I'd say with, my coach is just accountability, just, like, holding me to my things. Like, I talked about how I wanna structure my weeks, my themes in my weeks. It's like so he's like, hey, man. Did you get this done last week?
• 32:30
  Or at the end of the month, like, we reviewed my goals. Like, hey. Where are we at this? How are they going? That was kinda where this mastery kinda word came to me.
• 32:36
  It was like, you know what? I wanna really focus on the process. The results are important, but it's not like, I know the process is the most important part, and that would drive results. So, like, how can I master this process of land investing and and all the components to it? So kind of just bringing structure to my life, because as an entrepreneur, as a you know, as you would know, it's like, the only structure you have is what you give yourself.
• 33:00
  Mhmm. And for me, I like having structure. And so, like, the accountability and him helping me kinda build that in has been definitely super useful and keeps the good momentum going.
• 33:09
  Glenn: Yeah. Something that that helped me is when we started hiring people, it felt like there was people that were starting to rely on me. So Yeah. So it's like when we started hiring these people, it's like I have to build a system, and I also have to be consistent. Because if I'm not consistent, they're not gonna be consistent.
• 33:27
  So it was kind of like one of those unintended consequence, I guess, is what it would be called or byproduct of it. But having people to start work for you because I used to have a lawn business, and the days that I worked by myself, I was terrible. Like, I would just cut out early. It wouldn't, but then I'd start hiring people, and I found myself moaning. I've not just because there was an extra person there, but because they were wanting to work, So I had to, like, do more work on the days that they were working, and so I started, like, having these people work for me even when I didn't need it because it would actually make me get more done because of a I would work a full 8 hour a day compared to cutting out it within 3 hours, you know, of working.
• 34:11
  So
• 34:12
  Jamie: Definitely. I mean, experience that in the gym. Like, the gym I go to is, like, a CrossFit gym. So it's like you are with other people working out. You're more motivated.
• 34:21
  Like, my first job, especially, it was it was a finance job, highly competitive, and I actually really loved that part of it. Because, like, every day I went in, I was like I knew it was like, there's people who are gonna always be better than me at, like, at least that role I was doing, but I'll come in at least work as hard as I can. Like, my effort will will shine. It was kinda like the process. I was just really good at working the process of that first job and being a great teammate.
• 34:46
  So much more so than, like, when COVID first happened and I had to start working remote, it was like, you really lose that, like, kinda that edge, that competitive edge of, like, being around people and wanting to, like I mean, in a way, it just looked good. You know? Keep your reputation good.
• 35:00
  Glenn: So when you left that job, what was it like when you told did they ask you where you're going?
• 35:05
  Jamie: Well, so my first job, I left to do, like, the it was a renewable energy start up that I went and worked for, and then I started working remote with the start up. And that was, like, right when I was, like, starting to get into real estate. So it kinda worked out really nicely. You know, I didn't have anybody looking over my shoulder where I could really, like, kinda almost split my time, especially when I was really focused. So I would say kind of the last, like, few months leading up to me quitting, it was pretty obvious I was, like, 2 feet out the door.
• 35:31
  Glenn: Were you quiet quitting?
• 35:32
  Jamie: I was basically quiet quitting towards the end. So when my, like it was actually kinda funny. I have this big calendar behind me. So I had, like, my one of my sticky notes on there is is quick job, like, on that day. And it was the week before I was I was literally about fly into the office in quick, so I wanted to do it in person, because I, you know, I have a lot of respect for my boss Yeah.
• 35:53
  Who was my last boss. And, he called me, and, basically, he's like, hey, man. I just wanna, like, understand where your head's at. And at first, I was kind of like, oh, you know, like, this is what's going on. And I was like, you know what?
• 36:04
  This is actually where my head's at. You know? I wanna do this in person, but this isn't where my future is. Like, I was actually coming in to quit in a week. And so I just wanted wanna be, like, honest and transparent with you, like, that that's where my head's at.
• 36:19
  So he kinda he started to sense it as my, like, probably as my emails started to slow down.
• 36:26
  Glenn: Yeah. Well, cool. I think, got a great story. I think, obviously, you are getting the ins and outs of land investing, and all your information will be in the show notes. And, yeah, thanks for coming on the show.
• 36:41
  Jamie: Yeah. Appreciate it, Glenn. It was nice connecting with you.
• 36:44
  Glenn: Alright. Thank you. I guess on that note, if you'd like to like and subscribe, rate, comment, give us some feedback, we're on our way. Thank you.