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#1: Building self-sufficiency in public sector technology · Public Sector Tech Debrief

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the public sector tech debrief.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Annie Price, and I'm the Chief Commercial Officer at Digital Modus.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is the first episode of this podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: So let me give you a quick sense of what we're going to be going through in the following episodes.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: This series is all about us sitting down with the specialists from the business and going through what's really important to our customers in government, health, and local authority at the moment.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: That could be from what does large-scale policy change mean for you and how are you adapting delivery to that, to what does it take to build a self-sufficient capability in your own organisation to deliver in the future.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode will mainly be looking around what does self-sufficiency look like in our customers and what happens when you start out a project in a certain way, and how do you then measure success of that self-sustaining capability at the end.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Today with me I have my colleague Nick Howes, who's the CEO and co-founder at Digital Modus.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Nick, welcome.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to be here.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Good, good.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So let's kick off there.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to start with when we talk about self-sufficiency, what does that actually mean for our customers?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's quite a complex um topic, self-sufficiency.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's a number of different phases that you'll go through with any technology project.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's the implementation, there's making sure you've got it right, there's understanding what does that actually mean when the things that you've built go back to the business.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And some of that is actually quite circular.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for us, it's getting to a point where you've got a really good solution that the customer is happy with.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: At that particular point, you might well know that there are things that you need to do in the future, things that still need to be developed.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's having an understanding of that and then having an understanding of what's the capability you need in the business to be able to A, manage what you've got, and then B, look at under look and understand how that change might manifest for you moving forward.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think good looks like real confidence in the solution that you've got currently and your ability to maintain that solution with good core key skills around the technology in-house and a really good understanding of where that where you may well go with what you want the product to do for you in the future.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose there is a difference between how that works in the public sector and also the kind of commercial sector because of the way the public sector have to hire, because of some of the limitations they have around salary bans and the way they can bring people on board.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's some of the differences and what are some of the kind of advantages and disadvantages that public sector organizations have?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, kind of advantages that public sector organizations have, whilst it's difficult to actually uh get a technology program going, generally they tend to be around for quite a while.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: There are very few that just, you know, kind of manifest and then die very quickly.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that happens in the wider commercial world, but certainly in the public sector, you're looking for solutions that are actually going to deliver value for money for us as taxpayers long term moving forward.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you're looking for your your public sector institutions and the people that work for those institutions to try and drive real value for money.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think real value for money comes in a number of different ways.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about what's the cheapest price, it's about understanding what's going to be good for me over a period of time, where may I look at a certain set of technologies or a technology even, and make some investments into my people and take my people on a journey where they really understand what the technology is, what the limitations are of what they can do with the technology and where it may well deliver future benefits in uh benefits in the future.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think we've seen from some of our customers that it's how far they have to think ahead with that kind of uh skills cycle and the kind of talent cycle that they're driving for these really big strategic bets they're making in technology.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that has to be generally kind of years ahead of where they're looking to get to from a kind of outcome perspective.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think the ones we've seen that have done it really well, and it is an advantage, is that they're bringing junior talent into the organization, they're starting with a really clear view of what they want that talent to be built up in around a skills or a technology base.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're driving them through, and then they're also being prepared that they will probably leave at some point.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're filling the hopper again with new talent, so they're they're not having a gap or they're not getting losing all of that talent and moving back to scratch.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there are, you know, for lots of people uh working in technology in government is actually um quite a good position to be in.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it's always gonna be a requirement.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, government's only ever going to get driven more and more by technology, so it is a good career to get into.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: It will provide the foundation, and I think having that level of realism, as you've just said, about the fact that people are going to come into the organization and with some of the more modern technologies, you know, ultimately you are going to be outpriced by the commercial market.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: There is no getting away from that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: But plan for that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: What we've done with a couple of customers is we've worked with them at a foundational level to set up a center of excellence which allows them to understand what the requirements are that they need, bring people in on structured training programs, working with a methodology that the customer is happy with to provide that continuous improvement, continuous development pipeline, moving that forward so that you've got people who know and understand the environment, know and understand government and how government works, understand that they could be subject to a massive policy change in the future, and then can be partly or can react to that in a really good way.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're not always going to be totally self-sufficient.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: There are just going to be things that will happen where you are going to need to go back to the market.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: But what you want to do is to be able to go back to the market with a very set of condensed parameters around what the change may look like and how you want to manifest that change.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can work with some real specialists who can come in, deliver that for you, and again put you in control of the technology moving forward as a public sector body.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's even more important now because the pace at which that technology is changing is just rapidly accelerating.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So with the emergence of AI, with AI first in all of the big technology partners that we're seeing and working with, I think having a centre of excellence, a self-sustaining body within a customer organization that can adapt very quickly, but also then know who to pull in through the ecosystem to fill some of those gaps, whether that be partnership with the tech partner themselves, specialists like ourselves within some of the other areas, or the bigger consulting partners that they have across other parts of their estate to help them support that.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know working out who can do what for you is really, really important.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, understand who's good in which particular swim lane, work out how those swim lanes fit across what you need to deliver and bring the right resources in.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's you know, it is genuinely now.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the mixed economy, the rainbow team, whichever euphemism you particularly want to use, having somebody who can understand what that actually means and who's responsible for doing what leaves you in that position of being self-sustaining.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: So a slightly cliche question here, but what are some of the kind of common ways that you see customers failing in this space?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the common pitfalls that you're seeing within our customers at the moment?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Complexity of tech stack has a real bearing on your ability to be self-sufficient and serve your internal customers moving forward.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of government tech uh projects have been through a number of build phases where there's complex technology layered on complex technology.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do that anymore.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: There are really good technology stacks out there that allow you to have pretty much 70% of what you need out of the box, and then you're building the 30% on top, as opposed to this building out of the ground.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think you know, refer back to some of those things that we said earlier on, you know, people move through government.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, and in a lot of cases where you've built something that's really, really technically complex, if you lose that person, that's a really hard thing to do.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we've seen it so many times in government, whether it be for huge, big government or or local government, you know, you get the one person in the room who really understands how this thing works.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: So try and avoid, you know, that that's an obvious one.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Try and avoid the perils and pitfalls of single points of failure.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think from then on, it's about really understanding what your ecosystem of support actually needs to be, how well managed are they, how well governed are they, how much do you really know and understand what your customers actually want moving forward?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you know, government does change, government does move, um, and you've got to have the ability to be able to effect those changes.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: When you use one of the more modern technology stacks, the changes you're making are with 30% of the stack as opposed to trying to flow that thing all the way down through the technology stack.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's one of the areas where you know, kind of really knowing and using or really knowing what which technology you should be using is key moving forward.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And have you got any good examples?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got any examples that are customers that are doing this exceptionally well at the moment, or from your experience now or time at Digital Modus?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start with what was the Department for Business Energy and Industrial Strategy is now Department for Energy Security and Net Zero.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um about four years ago, uh, one of our first major gigs as Digital Modus introduced to the customer, um, had a had had an issue that they really needed to deal with and do it very, very quickly.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, engaged by the customer uh with a technology provider, um, the partner that we work with, uh, and we delivered a solution um inside a really short window, which meant that you know, kind of citizens out there who didn't have access to um uh utility bill support via the standard utility providers were able to get payment.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a really good thing to be doing.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what we did there is we built a solution um very much with a view of there are lots of things that this department is doing where components of that solution could be reused again and again and again.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we were able to build in such a way that enabled Desdes moving forward to deliver other grant solutions.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't just a build once and move on.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was a very short window of time to get these people's support, but it it was building something that left an asset base behind that you were able to pick up and reuse.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when you do that thing of reuse in you know, kind of the modern environment, modern technology environments, um, you're able to build the second round of an iter or second iteration of the of the solution a lot quicker.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the things that you you've built are actually reasonably well tested.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So things like integrations into you know some government databases, so things like HMRC databases, etc., um, location databases.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: When you've built those and you've built those well, you can pick up those components and reuse them.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really good example where the customer understood what the technology was, understood the capability of us as a provider, and then said, actually, could we do these things moving forward?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we did that, and that was the foundation of them being able to say, as a customer, being able to say, here are some really good things that we've done.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: We understand what the technology is, and actually we want to be able to use those and build on those moving forward.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it helps with their own self-sufficiency, you know, kind of they now know and understand what a lot of the components that we built for them can actually do, and they can almost put those together.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm gonna say duplo style.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: They've got a quick start.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I do know.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: You mean I think the the other thing with that is it it also takes a customer or a set of customers within the organization to have a bigger vision because I think, of course, the thing that drove that initial engagement was rapid policy change, citizens need money in their pocket now, there's a crisis, let's let's react to that crisis.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, there was still forethought into if we're building it like this now, what could be the reuse?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just the let's build it, let's muffball it and start again.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: We had customers that were willing to think slightly bigger and to think slightly more in a portfolio way that says, how do we take an asset, how do we take an investment, realize that it's probably going quite quickly, but what can we reuse in the future?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where can we start to sell that across our business to say we've got something now?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do want to do something that looks like this, it's gonna be 40% faster and 20% cheaper because we've built capability.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing that's really important to note is that it also reduces that customer's cost to serve moving forward for these sorts of things, not because just because their people know how to build and how to use the components, it's just the fact there is there's no complexity built into it, it's all configuration, not customisation, which is we're not seeing that everywhere within our customer base at the moment.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose it brings me on quite nicely to the next question, which is everyone talks of really good game in this space as a supplier because there is social value attached to it, there are there are aspects that are scored in all tenders around self-sufficiency.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you're advising a customer at the moment and they're looking to kind of build that into their specification or what they're looking for in a partner, what advice would you be giving them now?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh I think it's twofold.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, first one is obviously if you're in a great position and you've chosen you know a good technology stack, I think that that really helps.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a fundamental.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're in that fortunate position, what you're looking for, yeah.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I'd I'd go for two things again, break that down even further.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, evidence base of where a supplier has actually done this before.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it is the classic of you know, kind of government is always looking for three reference sites.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But if you you know find the provider who can actually give that and they're genuinely good references.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think do that before you get to the point where you know you're at tender.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Really good market exercise or market sounding exercise.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really important, um, particularly where you are thinking about using a new technology.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the first one.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: When you're crafting and creating the document that you're actually going to go to market with, I think it then comes down to being um quite explicit about what you're expecting as a customer moving forward.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of really good examples out there of different departments who've set up centre of excellence um in different technologies.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are lots of good business practice out there that you can share amongst government.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as part of your how do I pull um a set of requirements together, use the market effectively.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's one of the really good things.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm almost going to go counterculture here and give you the flip of that, where we've we've seen a really large uh government department um who have invested in a modern technology platform, but who didn't want to play with anybody else.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I say play with anybody else, didn't want to uh interact with any other government department.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: They were very much blinkers on we're going to do it our way.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think what they've ended up with is is a situation where um uh they have recontracted with an incumbent supplier, and I think they're going to end up with more of the same.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the the specification for the technology wasn't particularly sophisticated.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: The specification for the partner didn't reflect on what does good look like in the rest of the marketplace.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely I would say do that uh in terms of market engagement, early market engagement.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, just put my supplier hat on here.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think we really enjoy good early market engagement as well, because you can understand whether you are right for a customer as well.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, maybe maybe slightly different for us at digital modus, but you know, we want to work with customers where we know that we are going to have a really good relationship with those customers.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's that's the way that you get things done, and that leans into, you know, as a business, what do we want to deliver?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: We want to deliver uh, you know, solutions with social value attached to them.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, kind of government can do things with what we build, and they can do things very quickly.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, from our perspective, we want to see that reflected back in documentation.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: We want to see um uh a drive to a sense of speed and purpose.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are the outcomes you're gonna get when?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, don't try and make it just, you know, we see a lot of tender documentation that's almost open book in terms of of what's being asked for.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, you know, kind of as we said, you know, kind of government is is complex and you've got to have the ability to build for change, etc.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: But there are ways that you can actually squeeze, squeeze that or squeeze some of that out of what you're going to market for.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So be clear, be very specific.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, sorry, you know, kind of that can be quite generic into, you know, how can you say be specific, be be specific and call it a generic statement?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: But actually it is because loads of people think that they're being specific and actually they're not.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: What they really need to do is focus in on what's really important.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna do that by engaging with the market, the vet the tech vendors, engaging with the partners, big and small, before you come to market, having a really good understanding, uh, and then I think um working out what you're gonna need for the future.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you uh kind of just layering onto that ever so slightly, I think the the one thing I've seen that's worked really well is when customers do talk to each other, when the departments do talk to each other, because there are some really mature players that have been on technology solutions for a long time.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And when we when we go out and talk to our customers, they're crying out for that internal collaboration because there's so many lessons learned, there's so many things that they can take and use as accelerators for their own organizations and their own kind of position in that journey, but they just don't have visibility that's happening.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I know we've done quite a bit of work with our customers to bring kind of informal peer groups together, and you can see it kind of straight away that that as soon as they get that snippet of what was the what went right, what went wrong, and what do we not want to repeat?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that starts to go into some of their specifications to market, they get a much better response.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they also get a better collection of suppliers that are aligned to that kind of vision and value of what they're trying to do.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, Nick, if you were talking to a customer right now, advising them in that kind of pre-market engagement stage, um, what would be some of the things and and and measures that you should think that customer should put in play, not just for the kind of the evaluation of the tender or the evaluation of the document, but ongoing.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think the thing we've seen is everyone focuses on the questions in the in the kind of the tender document to get through that evaluation phase, and then it almost gets forgotten about until the end of the agreement, and then there's a massive chasm between what the expectation was up front and what actually happens at the end.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the things that customers can be looking at in the life of the contract to kind of to minimize that, I suppose?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Understanding what your success points are at a high level, you're gonna know what they are, the immediate ones are, um, and you can be quite granular about what they're gonna drive for the organization.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna be more respirational the longer term you get.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Having something in place where you've got a really good mechanism for being able to understand what you wanted at the start, what you've asked for.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps there is a change control in there somewhere, but being able to capture all of that and flow that evidence down through so that everybody who's involved can actually see what's happened.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, right from the start, you know, kind of being able to say, we had these particular contractual terms, um, we wanted it delivered in this particular way, and we achieved, you know, X amount, hopefully 100% of that, you get to achieve that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then if something's not actually worked for you, capture that really early, understand why it didn't work.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could well be, and I know shock horror, guess what?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: There are failings on on all sides on occasion.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could be a tech failing, it could be a supplier failing, it could even be a departmental failing.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but understand what you need to do to move forward from that particular point.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get yourself back to what does what did you think good looked like or where do you think good looks like now?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to view all of your obligations and everybody's obligations into this, because there are obligations that you know when if you're if you're contracting effect effectively uh as a department, there are going to be things that you need to do.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, your suppliers by rights should tell you what's required of you, particularly if you're doing a new thing and you need to know and understand what they are.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, getting that embedded into the organization is key.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: But again, we're back to the same point.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Find a way to manage that really well through the organization so that a contract actually delivers for you over the period, as opposed to, you know, as you said, not just now, but then also, you know, kind of you get to the end and you go, Oh, that's not quite what we thought it was going to be.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's the problem is with a lot of these contracts, the terms of them as well, the the length of the duration of the term means that the people that are around at the beginning and the that kind of commercial discussion up front, the procurement exercise, aren't always there throughout the life cycle of the of the actual project and delivery itself.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So ensuring that that governance and those measures are set up in a meaningful way up front.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you you struck a really, really important point is also creating an open dialogue within the partnership as well between you and the supplier, because I think what happens is it becomes too punitive too quickly, and then not everyone's working towards the right direction, and then there's no there's no winners out of that at the end.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think also having the right sort of systems in Place to measure some of that because I think it's uh it's a harder one to measure than than other kind of contractual obligations, such as availability time and those things that are very, very black and white, very, very binary.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Self-sustainability is actually really hard to um to measure.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that some of the things that we're seeing is around the volume of people that are certified on certain platforms, the volume of people that are actually supporting live services in the customer organization, um, being able to manage uh first line, second line support conversations, and then also being part of a rainbow team moving forward so they actually have some of that intelligent customer uh capability sitting on their side of the fence and just all with it within the partner.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for us as a business, um one of the things I I guess I'm I'm most proud of is we've always been complimented on what we leave behind.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, whether that's a good system, the documentation that goes around the good system, the the video vignettes that we create for uh people so that they really understand how to use the system.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think that it that then becomes part of the the team that moves forward, that's part of their asset bank.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, those are that's collateral that they can use moving forward and they can build off of that.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: They've got some really good examples of what does good look like in terms of I don't know, training materials around this this new um technology that's being implemented.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and it gives them a uh a blueprint for being able to replicate that internally.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: The governance mechanisms again, you know, kind of there are um a variety of ways that you can do this.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'd love to come back and talk about a solution that we've built ourselves for uh for managing contracts and suppliers, etc.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, maybe we'll get to that in a in another episode.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: But but right now I think there are a lot of things that you could do that are just really straightforward that will help you as an organization be able to um embed a new solution into your business by making sure that you're working effectively with your supplier.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, kind of these we've seen some really good examples over the uh over the past couple of years.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen a couple of uh examples that are probably aren't so good, where you know it's been more of a traditional um relationship with a customer.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think I look at what's good and what we've delivered, don't get me wrong, I think we've delivered in in both scenarios, but where it's been really, really good, and that's where you know kind of you get the feedback of um it's very fortunate to be on a call with a uh a customer last Friday.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and albeit, you know, kind of this is a I mentioned uh um an opportunity that we didn't win earlier on, um, but the customer has said to us, you know, kind of um find a way to partner up with the people that have won the business because we really want you guys to come back in.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: We we love working with you and we love working the way that you work with us.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we really understand the customer's environment and actually the feedback, when you get feedback like that, it really makes you want to work more uh for that particular customer.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and the reason that it's worked in that particular customer is they know that they've got really good quality in terms of of what's been delivered, um, but they also know that we've always got that eye on the future about you know, kind of making sure that they've got the right kind of not only building blocks, assets, but also people with the right level of skills to be able to take what we've done and move forward with it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really good point, and I think it's the most rewarding part, isn't it, to get that sort of feedback and to actually, like you say, it's a it's a it's a slightly second prize at this moment in time, but ultimately customer sees value in a partner turning up a certain way and behaving a certain way and having a shared interest and what a good outcome looks like together.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that that's something we we try and do on across all of our customers.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's been really good.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is you'll you'll realize it's probably a bit of an esoteric large question to kind of close this off.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were looking at a department we've worked with, we've stepped away from the from the engagement, we come back in a year's time.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: What does good look like?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: What would show you that that customer is actually driving self-sufficiency?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: What are the what are the signals and the the behaviours you'd be looking for?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'll quote um the department for energy security and net zero.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Big piece of work, uh hiatus, getting back onto the pitch.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of what we did for those guys uh revolve around um uh you know delivering grant a grants management solution, uh or a variety of different grants management solutions actually to put it to put it into place.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um when we were re-engaged with DesNet, they've been looking at what what we delivered previously and understood the asset base.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, fortunately, again, we we used you know you used the term earlier on intelligent customer.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think they've been a super intelligent customer, I think they've they've really um understood what their customers actually want and have tried to find the way um that you can maximize a technology that they chosen to be able to build a number of different things and and always looking at that.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: What does a componentised architecture actually look like?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: How can I drop things in on a platform that delivers rapid results?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: How can I then pull that together with you know kind of things that are configuration, um, maximum use of the platform capability, minimal use of and I say minimal, and it's still quite quite a big amount of work that we've done with these guys, but it is you know kind of working together in a team with um the customer, some other suppliers, delivering across a wholesale platform where the customer has actually said, This is a technology that we want to use moving forward, so therefore we'll develop our own understanding of how we're going to use that technology.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: We know roughly what our business is and what it's going to be moving forward, you know, kind of the clues in the name with you know with with the customer.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's about making sure that energy is delivered rightly and appropriately and secured and all of those kind of things.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, superb things to be doing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the customer has looked at how do we how do we do that?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do we deliver that?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then how can we actually take the investments that we're making and just keep turning those over faster and faster, putting them back in, more of our own people getting a really good understanding of what the technology is that we're using, what does it do, how does it deliver the outcomes, how can we make that move faster next time?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: How can you reduce the amount of time between commissioning a new grant system for, I don't know, you know, some new um uh um energy efficiency um um requirement moving forward?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: How can you condense the time between that's being thought about as a as a policy to delivery so that you know, as a as a citizen who may be entitled to a grant, I can get my hands on that grant money as swiftly as possible in the most efficient manner, and government is taking um uh all of my details, reusing them where where appropriate through a system that is also reused as well.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think we're gonna see more and more of that need within government at the moment.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've we're obviously in times of of rapid policy kind of um need.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the ability to leave our customers in a way that they can react to that in a quick and and a meaningful way, and also a a way that maximizes taxpayer money as well.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that value for money and that return on investment is going to be scrutinized heavily.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think the more we can give that back to our customers in their hands and kind of let them steer their own destiny the better.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Nick, we're at time now, but thanks for that.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was really, really useful, really, really insightful.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we'll be going into more next week.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, before we wrap up, um, next on next week's episode, we'll be going a little bit deeper into some of the topics we touched on today around things like reusable components and what does a genuine handover look like from a supplier to a customer.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: If any of the topics we've spoken about today sound familiar, something you'd like to discuss, please visit the Digital Modus website.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be happy to book a discovery or book a call with one of the team to take you through this and to talk in more detail.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to say thank you so much for tuning in to the public sector tech debrief, and we look forward to seeing you next week.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.