Latest / Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman / Daniel Carcillo on Brain Trauma, Psilocybin Therapy, and the Future of Mental Health | Broken Brains Podcast Ep. 102

Transcript

Daniel Carcillo on Brain Trauma, Psilocybin Therapy, and the Future of Mental Health | Broken Brains Podcast Ep. 102 · Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken Brains with your host, Bruce Parkman, sponsored by the Mac Parkman Foundation, where we look at the issue of repetitive brain trauma in the forms of repetitive head impact, some contact sports, and repetitive blast exposures for our veteran population and what these conditions are doing to the brains of our kids, our athletes, and our veterans, and causing right now the largest preventable cause of mental illness in this country.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: We reach out to players and advocates and researchers, scientists, authors, whoever is in this space, because this is not taught in any medical, nursing, or psychological curriculum.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to be informed to make the best decision for yourself and how to address brain health, how to take care of your kids, and how to help us all make sports safer because they can be made safer as we move forward.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: With us today is another amazing guest, thanks to our producer, Denny Caballero, who's always bringing these amazing folks on our show.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Love to have them.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we have today Daniel Garcio, who's our first uh NHL player to get on the uh show.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Garcio is a former NHL player, and if they're like Marines, they're never former.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Once an NHL player, always an NHL player.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he's a two-time Stanley Cup winner, man, with the Chicago Blackhawks and a now renowned advocate for brain health and mental well-being, which we always love to see players getting into the space because it's so necessary.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: He played left wing in the NHL for 10 seasons, earning a reputation as a hard-nosed enforcer, the bad guy on the ice, and is now known for his work with individuals suffering from effects of concussions and mental health challenges.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And since he's left uh the NHL right now, he has been uh eminently engaged in the space, is helping out other players, other kids, other parents in the space.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um he retired in 2015, but he founded a nonprofit organization to assist former NFL players, NHL players dealing with post-concussion syndrome and mental health issues.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: He currently serves as CEO of Wasanna Health, a company focused on using psilocybin-based medicine for the treatment of traumatic brain injuries.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, we got a lot to talk about on that one.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: He speaks at a lot of events.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's a vocal advocate for concussion awareness, and he's personally experienced the effects of multiple concussions.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: You think after 10 years in the NHL, and including a diagnosis of post-concussion syndrome, which has led him to this adequacy work.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Garcia, what a resume, what a reputation, what a career.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, sir.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me, Bruce.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, love it, man.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, dude, where are you from originally?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, are you from Canada, the Europe?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how'd you get into hockey, man?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Canada.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as soon as you're born, you're pretty much born with skates on.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: As soon as you can walk, uh, they stick you on the ice.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was a small town.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Everything really revolved around, you know, the community rink.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's called uh King City, Ontario.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, kid.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So did you have an actual rink or did you skate on like ponds and stuff like we did in Massachusetts when I was growing up?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: We used we used cranberry bogs all the time.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we did both.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: We did both.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we had uh the local mom under the bridge kind of drop the bowling ball and would tell us when we could, you know, get on the ponds and stuff.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we had a backyard rink, and then you know there's a rink on every corner.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're open all year round in Canada.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: So uh it was a meld of those three things.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so you were you were up there way up north with the where the the ice is around year round, or you know, and uh yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well it used, yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean it you know the snowfall was was you know pretty predominant.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's it's definitely less now, but uh but yeah, no, definitely you know, we're we're pretty north of uh of the city, and then you know you get up into Sudbury and and North Bay and Sault Ste.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Marie, and those those towns are uh you know constantly covered.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, yeah, I remember uh sometimes if the ice was thick enough, they'd have the pickup trucks actually go out there and plow the snow.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we do the ice fishing, like my dad had a had a hut that we would just you know pull with a snowmobile or sometimes a truck onto the ice, so definitely thick enough for that.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, cool beans, man.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uh where did you go to school?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, where did you play hockey in college?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or did you play hockey?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Did you just go right in?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, we went uh right in.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: So there's kind of you know, there's a fast track system with with hockey.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually drafted as 16, turning 17, so in high school.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then as soon as I graduated high school, I um uh turned pro at 19, you know, around like 15 or 16, you have the decision to either go to college or at least start looking at universities or play in a league called the Canadian Hockey League, which really fast tracks you.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's where a lot of the scouts were.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, you're playing against 16 to 21 year olds, and and I went to a few school visits, but I figured, you know, why be behind the eight ball?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was good enough, I thought I was strong enough that I could, you know, break into the league, maybe not at 19 or 20, but um, you know, after a couple years in the AHL, I thought I could definitely get there faster and no point in going to school and waiting until I was, you know, 23 or 24 to try to get in.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cool beans, man.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, how long did it take you to get uh drafted into the NHL?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, unconsciously, you know, since I started like around four or four years old, uh when I really noticed that I probably had a pretty decent shot if I continued to work hard and and outwork people, probably like at 13, 14 years old, people were starting to take notice.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was never the biggest, I was never the best.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I played AA, which is kind of a level down from AAA.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: There were about 700,000 kids in in Ontario alone that were playing hockey, so it was really, really competitive.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I had an opportunity to make a triple A team, got drafted in the sixth round to an OHL team, moved away at 16, drafted 73rd overall to the NHL, and just kind of kept making my my way up and just you know kept working as a as an underdog.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, so you're in the NHL at 17 years old.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Drafted, yeah, 17 turning 18.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, you're drafted, and then you start going to pro camps, you know, that year, and and there's only a select few guys that you know turn pro right away and get right into the NHL.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, typically like first rounders and second, third, fourth rounders.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta continue to make your way up through the developmental league, which is the American Hockey League.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's one level down from the NHL.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, you start playing well and and you start getting noticed by the organization, they either bring you up, or if there's a little bit of a pecking order, like there was in my situation, I was drafted to the Penguins.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that I was ready to play, and and there were just so many guys in front of me that it didn't really matter how well I played.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I asked for a trade and ended up getting traded a year and a half uh into my pro career to uh Phoenix, Arizona, and started my my NHL career there in uh I think it was oh five, oh six.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, man.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I never knew how this stuff played, and uh, you know, and I it's just you read about it and you know, stuff like that.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think actually, I think you're the first, you're the second professional hockey player I've talked to.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I met uh a guy that played with the Bruins a long time ago, and he runs uh a brain, well, he runs a sports clinic, and I'm talking about you know how we can make the sport safer uh so that people can play the entire time, you know, and retire from the NHL, the NFL, any rug world rugby, and not have brain problems, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a way forward to do it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So so in your life, from the time you retired to the time you start playing hockey, I mean, how how many years did you play competitive hockey?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Competitively, you know, uh the rules were different back when I started, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: We were hitting right at three, four years old.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, yeah, yeah, I started, you know, I'd say about like 25 years, 26 years, you know, um, because I retired early at 30, uh, and it was because of the just the effects of concussion, and I just was really uh, you know, just affecting balance and and hand-eye coordination and uh symptoms like headaches, head pressure, insomnia.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was just impossible to to continue to do my job.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: But 10 years is a really long time for uh you know to play in the NHL, uh, especially when you you know fight 164 times and you my job was to get as many hits as possible, you know, and uh and I was good at it, um, but it comes at a cost.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so not only were you you know checking and hitting the ice all the time, you're getting punched in the head too, just for the you know, that was your job.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was an enforcer.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: I uh I mean I was good at the game.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like I was one of those um kind of you know heavyweights that just went out and at the beginning of the game just kind of dropped their gloves.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I would make you know people earn it, uh, or I would go earn it myself.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it was really used as a tool to shift the momentum of a game to, you know, if you weren't having kind of the best start to just you know show the guys that you were there to battle and and your teammates appreciate it, and then usually the next shift and the shift after that, you start to gain some momentum.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And within a game, you know, especially professional sports, there's there's very little room for error, and and so momentum plays a very big role in in the bounces that you get and create for yourself in winning a game or a series.
• 9:33
  unknown: Dang.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: You ever have you one of your coaches go, hey man, go start a fight.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we need to we need to we need to s flop the momentum or anything like that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um they don't they don't they don't they say it without saying it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that's time, but yeah, they'll well they'll put you, they'll never say go start a fight, but what they'll do is they'll they'll change maybe one guy or two guys off a face-off, and then the guy that you're lined up with is you know, you know who fights on the other side all the time, right?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're you do your research, and so you know, they say it uh without and then you know, like that's you know, having your finger on the pulse of of how the game's going is it's a skill.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh and I knew that pretty intimately.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: And for a long time, like I reveled in it, you know.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I really liked hurting people, and I you know, the only other time that people stand up and cheer is when you know a goal scored or or there's a fight.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So uh good on you, man.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hey, we all got our roles, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I played semi-pro rugby for a long time, man.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, my my role is just to stick my head in there and and come out with the ball somehow, you know.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I couldn't I didn't even know how to pass.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I played semi-pro rugby for decades.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I never even passed the ball.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: We just had uh it's it's funny you mentioned that we just had a bunch of uh UK boxers and and some rugby players, and they're going through a kind of concussion lawsuit right now, but uh we're starting to treat some people, you know, from from across the pond there, uh using using mushrooms at our center, and we're tracking data and and it's uh it's it's been going well.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: We just did our first cohort of uh of eight individuals and some UFC, some bare knuckle boxers, and um and yeah, we just we just all met the other day and and people have been, you know, their lives have been changed uh for the better.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, let's get into that in a little bit.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I know absolutely, because I want to dial into psilocybin.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the treatments that we highly recommend um as part as part of the legislation that we have in Congress right now for veterans.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to parallel that track for athletes and um and get that going.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you noticed that you know the the sport was taking its toll on you, and basically you had to leave the sport because of its impact on your brain and um and and physical health.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: What about mental health?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Were you struggling?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously you were reveling in fighting.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's sometimes sometimes that's just who you are, you know.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Other times, you know, the you know, the the anger, the impulsivity, and the rage come from, you know, you know, the damage to the brain is also done by the sport.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if I look back on my career, I can see how I was dealing with like a lot of you know, depression, anxiety, or or what could be framed as that.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: But also, you know, I'm the type of person that likes to use things as fuel.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I could also see that some forms of the self-sabotage were likely because I was self-medicating because of the injuries that I was kind of dealing with that were you know underlined or underpinned, just feeling so different.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but also, you know, trauma in a big way um fueled me, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was I was angry, uh, I just liked the physicality of of the game.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I liked being able to look at somebody you know in the eye and and test them, you know, and and then them have have them test me, you know, to see how strong I am, to see how far I'll go.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um less about, you know, for the team, but more so just like personally, you know, and I'm still very much kind of like that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: That dog is still in me.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: It just comes out in in different ways now, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in entrepreneurship and that sort of thing.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: But my seventh, my sixth and seventh concussion, which were the last two years of my uh being in the league, so like you know, 2014 to 15, the symptoms were really, really bad.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: So on top of you know, the headaches, head pressure, the insomnia, the impulse control issues, I was definitely dealing with, you know, anxiety, uh, depression, and then suicidality.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, w especially when I walked away from the game, I, you know, when you're not getting sleep, and then you have all of these kind of things that are that are happening to you, and you go from being a professional athlete to sitting at home with your wife and a newborn, you start to really realize how sick you are, uh how slow you are, you know, compared to other people.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a part of that, a big part of that was obviously the brain chemistry and and the years of abuse, um, you know, being so physical in the body and the brain, but then also having no purpose.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think people, men especially, can deteriorate without that community and purpose.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that definitely happened to me, and it got really scary for for a really long time.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've had a lot of friends that didn't make it out that you know, CT was all over their brain, and and for whatever reason, they they just you know couldn't figure it out.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel blessed that you know I was able to to find a medicine that that saved my life.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when you got out, I mean, and we deal with this on the military side too, you know, depression and anxiety, uh, mental health issues are very prominent in first responders, professional athletes, and the military, because you spend a such a long segment of your life in a an environment of, you know, just say, let's just say manliness, right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you whether you're shooting guns, going to combat, you're playing, you know, a sport or you're saving lives, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then you leave it, right?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like silence, and we don't know how to deal with silence.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: How did you take the steps to avoid you know some of the tragedies that happen with professional athletes in the same spot, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this is we're talking, you know, uh all every almost everybody I know that plays uh professional sports contacts for us is hurting, okay, whether they're rugby players, football players, NHL players, crowd, whatever, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, obviously you were in a hole and uh and and thank the Lord that you you know you started climbing out.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: What was what was the impetus for you to start saying I've got to do something?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then what led you to the the medicine that you know that that helped you uh get back and become who you are?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so 2015, uh the the year started with me having we we had our first uh our first child.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: So Austin was born in 2014.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: The season starts in September, and then leading into 2015, my best friend Steve Monador passed away.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: He had 19 uh documented concussions um in the NHL.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just saw a lot of the same symptoms in myself that I saw in him that we were obviously talking about when he retired and what he was struggling with.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then in March, I had my seventh concussion, and then at the end of the year we won the cup again, and that was my second.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought that, you know, with the symptoms from the seventh concussion and how bad they were, I wasn't I still never recovered.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just knew that you know, if I kept going on that way, there was a high likelihood that my brain was just gonna stop working, you know, forever.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I made the decision to stop based off of you know those symptoms, and then I went into the medical system.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily, like I had means, I had all the means in the world to get the best care.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and for unfortunately, you know, what I started with was listening to doctors prescribe me these synthetic pharmaceuticals for for a number of years to manage symptoms, which then exasperated others.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when I got off of those, I had a couple seizures, which made my you know, situation a little bit worse.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started to go to these kind of cash pay neurological stroke rehabilitation, concussion rehabilitation clinics, started to really learn about the brain diagnostics and and went to these kind of intensive, you know, week-long programs, but I could only sustain that for like a year and a half because number one, it was just so expensive.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And number two, like the treatments just didn't really take hold, you know.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so then I started to kind of be resounded to the fact of listening to these neuroscientists saying, Well, we've done everything we can for you.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: So now it's time to just manage these symptoms and live a new normal, which is what a lot of concussion survivors, you know, um hear.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I started to do float tanks, hyperbaric chamber, mox acupuncture, cranial sacral, things like that, just to kind of manage uh the days.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and all this while I was reading PubMed papers.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I was reading anything that I could on like what the new science was saying about any medicines coming out or anything for the brain.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then I came across a study in 2000, um, I think it was 2017, it was published in 14.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was by Robin Card Harris, Imperial College of London of a brain on psilocybin under fMRI.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And what I saw was this kind of overactivity of communication with left and right brain hemispheres.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I just a light went off and said, hey, that might work for you, just based off of what I was listening to from the diagnostics from these clinics and the neuroscientists, etc.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: So luckily in 2019, I took an invitation to Denver, which where magic mushrooms are psilocybin was decriminalized at the time, so I knew I couldn't get arrested.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I took a took a really high dose.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and before I left, I took some diagnostics.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I took a QEG, I took uh blood work because I knew that if this could work, then there's a lot of stigma associated with it, so I'd need some kind of backup data.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and at that point I was I was big on on this kind of data collection, so I did it on myself, and then um I did two high doses across six months, and I went back to the neurologists or neuroscientists that kind of gave me the scans, and they couldn't find any abnormalities in my brain.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then my blood work was completely clear, and they asked me, Well, you know, what have you been doing?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I've been focusing on my sleep.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: I did two high doses of mushrooms, I did, you know, some microdosing, and then I have supplements of lion's mane and rishi and cordyceps and chaga, these other legal USDA certified organic mushrooms that help support, you know, anti-inflammatory benefits of the brain, the body.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they, you know, they they wouldn't like even look at it, you know, because at this point there weren't that many studies out, but now there's there's a lot that promote this idea of neuroplasticity that you know we got it wrong, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: The brain doesn't stop growing at 21.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: It it continues to, if you if you introduce the right substances and and you have the right lifestyle, it continues to to be able to be placid enough to make these new neuronal connections around these dead neurons.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that was um in 2020 I really started talking about this, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, you know, now we have uh, you know, our c our center in in Oregon open and and it's been um yeah, it's been an interesting kind of road of of you know establishing um establishing you know advocacy in these centers so that people can take advantage of something that unfortunately right now is federally illegal, but through the states and these adult therapeutic use programs, people can can legally come and and do this therapy.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you found this, I mean you've you you you found this path all by yourself.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: When you got out, where where was the NHL on this?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Did they offer you any, you know, I mean I mean, obviously, and this is one of my ongoing presses against the NFL and in the V in the in the military, like when I retired 21 years as a Green Beret, you know, been shot in the face, all you know, blown up.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've I shot I've shot so many bullets, I don't even go to range.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: They bother, they bore me, right?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the military does an assessment saying, all right, we find all this stuff wrong that you didn't have when you came in.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: We own this.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And right or wrong, the VA says, Hey, we're gonna take care of it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, you know, we're talking about a sport where you dedicated yourself from three or four.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: All the way up until 2015.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: So before three, I doubt you had the the the kind of damage that was found with your QEG and FRI when you retired.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this is due dedicated, you know, it's due to the hockey, right?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's due to your sport, your commitment, your passion, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Was the N NHL, you know, uh um, you know, they would they did they have any programs or anything to help you with at all?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get any medical support or anything like that?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, no.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: I no, I was a little bit like jaded from what had happened to Steve, and he was such a big part of the union, the NHLPA.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: But once you stop either working for them or paying your dues, if you're not playing, you're not necessarily, you know, I wouldn't say you're not welcome, but they're not gonna they're not gonna go out of their way to help.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we all pay for healthcare, and you could tap into healthcare, but the only thing that can be prescribed are these FDA-approved medications, right?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: That that we know work, you know, less than 7% of the time and come with these crippling side effects.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think people are waking up to that now.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, no, there wasn't much support.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I honestly, to be honest, I didn't want their support.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we talked a little bit about like these transition programs because I had such a hard time transitioning, and I think they're doing a little bit of a a better job of it now uh through the NHLAA as well.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, no, uh, you know, I I think once you stop kind of producing and playing for the corporations or for the leagues or for the teams, then um, you know, you're kind of yeah, you're kind of on your own.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, not pointing fingers.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm looking at is how do we change this, right?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get, you know, people to, you know, or or the the organizations, the professional leagues, to say, look, man, these young men dedicate themselves to our sport.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're you guys are like gladiators, right?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: We you give us our, you know, for football, our Sundays with our Doritos and our beer, you know, and on hockey, I mean, you guys play so many games, dude.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how many games in NHL C's?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 82.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: 82.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then, yeah, so it's but it's over 184 days, I think.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you're um 40, obviously 41 are at home and 41 are on the road.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's uh it's a pretty grueling, pretty grueling schedule.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, yeah, nuts.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So all right, so all right, you put yourself you know on the way back, and then you know, obviously, you know, have you tried I mean, so all right, so let's talk about psilocybin.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um tell us about the impact it has on the brains.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: What what well I mean you've mentioned new neural connections and increased plasticity.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, tell our our members um what you know, you know, from a from a uh a brain damage perspective from subcussive trauma, um, you know, how long did it take you?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: You said you took two high doses, was that, you know, one in one and and and microdose along, or you know, what are the what are the protocols that you know that you went through and they're and uh what do you what are you finding out of suicide?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean we talk about all the time, and obviously you're you're devoted to it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do our listeners need to know about this uh about this medicine?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I will say, so and let me just address um, I do want to say something just about the like the leagues and stuff, right?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: So what what we have that we are putting together right now is the first inhuman um longitudinal observational study with you know QEGs, which are the brain scans, we've got microbiome, uh genetic testing, um, blood.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: So so we're putting that together.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: We just did our first eight cohorts, um, as I mentioned a little earlier, with you know, the the boxers and and rugby players and UFC fighters.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's exciting.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that I think, because there is so much research, there isn't an FDA-approved medicine yet, but there is so much that's been done in the way of proving that this neuroplasticity is happening and and how it could be good for not only concussion but neurodegenerative disease through like Johns Hopkins and NYU Langone and some serious academic institutions.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: That I think, you know, if we put together this this program and put it in front of the NHLPA, I'm hopeful, and even the UFC, and I'm hopeful either, you know, they help with recruitment um or maybe funding.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, that's kind of the next step of you know how maybe they can get involved.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: For your listeners, you know, I want to start with there's obviously two different ways to do this, right?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: That a lot of people hear about.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: They hear about kind of recreationally, going to a concert and doing, you know, a small dose.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what we're talking about here in the context of of healing the brain and the body and the spirit from you know depression, anxiety, any number of these, of these, you know, psychiatric and neurological disorders is we do this therapeutically.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, this is a Schedule I substance.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that means that it's illegal, federally illegal, uh, similar to you know how cannabis is is federally illegal.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so with a federally illegal substance, we have to lobby the states to be able to introduce legislation to create what's called adult therapeutic use programs.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: So there's four actually now that are that are currently available, four states.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um they include uh most recently New Mexico, um, which will create this kind of adult therapeutic use framework.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: It'll take another probably two years to get to get open.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um the two that are open right now are Oregon with Measure 109, where we have our center in Portland, and then Colorado, uh, with through Prop 122.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: So they're just starting to license, they just licensed uh the first healing center.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and then you have uh Utah that actually has you know medical professionals prescribing, being able to prescribe MDMA and psilocybin.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's a legal way through the state to be able to access this.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And why that's important is because we focus on uh a couple different um you know avenues and licenses to be able to do this correctly.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: So set and setting are really important.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So your mindset and then the environment that you do this medicine in.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And what's also critical and where all of the you know positive results come from is this psychotherapy that individuals continue to do, right?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: So um in regards to preparing somebody, we would prepare them and give them these kind of questionnaires about their mental health history and medication so there's no drug-drug interaction.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then we would, after you're qualified, um you'd be paired with a facilitator.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: So think about this person as uh a licensed individual that can um that is knowledgeable and can sit with somebody through a ceremony, and they will get to know you know all of Bruce's traumas, why he's coming, uh, because sometimes these things can arise and and Bruce may need a little bit of support during the ceremony.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I think the most crucial part is the integration of okay, uh, we've had the ceremony, we've had this kind of um cataclystic event, and it's been positive for not only the spirit, but also the brain, and there's definitely you know more activity happening in the brain, there's an anti-inflammatory effect.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what are you going to do with it, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's this proven in nature.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: There was a study of this proven openness period.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: So there's three to four weeks where individuals have the ability that in the ceremony they've broken these kind of destructive thought patterns or perspectives of themselves, and now they've got this three to four-week window to be able to really go anywhere they want to go.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they aren't hamstrung by the same anxieties or or perspectives of themselves or their injury or the situation they're in.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so they can start eating differently, they can start waking up at different hours and going to bed at different hours, and it just becomes really easy because the brain is almost like a child's brain again.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's placid, right?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what we've proven through a number of different studies, both in animal and in human.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that integration piece is is really important, and this has all been supported by a number of different studies.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, you know, obviously people can try to get in touch.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And Bruce, I'll send you some some of the information that we have in our decks.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: But most recently, I'll just touch on this.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: There was a study done by Northeastern University.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, about three weeks ago, they published this where they gave female rats uh mild traumatic brain injury.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: And people might be asking, well, why would they use rats?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's the first step to doing a drug development program specifically for concussions.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: So they actually might make people a little queasy, but they have an anvil test where they hit these rats on the head, similar to a mild traumatic brain injury, for three days, and then they gave them a dose of psilocybin.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: And what they found, obviously, they had these this brain damage, they had anti-inflammatory effects that that went up after they were hit, and they also had the presence of tau proteins.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Tau proteins are these entanglements that basically strangle brain hemispheres, and they're present in Alzheimer's, dementia, ALS, and Parkinson's.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Why that's important is after the psilocybin went into these female rats that were hit in the head, they did not have a presence of these tau proteins anymore after the psilocybin dose.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: The researchers couldn't find any signs of any brain damage, and all of the anti-inflammatory markers that were heightened after they got hit in the head were no longer present.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: So this study speaks to how powerful psilocybin is specifically for the brain and specifically for after it has been injured due to impacts.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something, I mean, number one, that's amazing.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and we are a huge proponent.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've done most of these modalities myself, uh, part of my research project.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, they're not a lot of fun.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're and there is no recreational when you take ketamine, psilocybin, ayahuasca, there is no recreation, there's no fun about this because you are dealing with your internal struggles, your internal trauma, and getting rid of it in the in in your pursuit of becoming a better human being.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, the thing is what what what always bothers me when you start talking about studies and stuff is how do we keep big farmers' hand out of this thing, right?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because they want to turn everything into a pill and charge 500 bucks for something you can grow for 50, right?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you can grow a ton of it, right?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I happen to know people that have like mushroom farms, right?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're not making pizzas either, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, how do we how do we prevent that?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing is how do we control the quality so that people know I'm getting what I'm getting, you know, whether it's the type of mushroom or or or or the type of uh plant or whatever.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think that's what's important to highlight uh about Oregon and about Colorado.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: So there's four licenses.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you can get licensed as a service center, so that's the environment that you would come and do this in, and that's the center that that we have called Experience Onward in Portland.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's also manufacturing licenses, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: So for the growers of the fungi, there's very specific ways to grow it.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't follow that, then nobody's gonna ingest it.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Then there's testing facilities, so there's a testing license.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: So after the mushroom is manufactured, it goes to the testing facility and has to pass those specifications.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then there's uh facilitator licenses.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: So there's these therapists or these people that have obviously been through you know a ceremony and several themselves and now want to, you know, help others and pass this on.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: So those four licenses create the programming.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, similar to pharma, right, the reason they use one compound synthetically is because they need to replicate that compound within a 0.01% variance for millions of people.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Think about Adderall, etc.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the testing is really important, but we've we've lobbied for that, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: We've put these programs in place, and so will big pharma ever come in and and and want to run a you know a state-run center?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, why are we doing this first inhuman longitudinal observational study?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because there's a lot of stigma associated, right, with this medicine that we use, and we want to track data.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: We want to track data in a in a poignant way so that we can show people the real-time effect of how this is impacting a veteran's life, an athlete's life, an executive's life that's struggling right now, a civilian that was just in a car crash.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: We just want to be able to show people on top of Bruce talking about it or Daniel or somebody that just came to the retreat.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: We we really want to back up uh that with you know some markers of data.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: And these are just quantitative, qualitative surveys, but you know, so what we'll get, right, is um we'll get this question.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're not doing a double-blind placebo study the way that the FDA does, right?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say, no, I'm not.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also measurements that we're taking that that bust through your placebo argument, right?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: If we know that the brain uh has more activity, right, and is communicating correctly through a QEG pre and then post, there's no placebo effect there.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody was somebody's brain was communicating badly because they were hit in the head several times for several years.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: We gave them psilocybin, and then now it's communicating correctly.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot that's why these studies are are so important, right?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: These anti-inflammatory effects, these genetic tests of the actual age, how fast somebody's aging, because what we've seen across 50 people that have come is that they look younger.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody looks healthier, right?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you know, tracking the anti-inflammatory effects.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, but these the these data points, like, you know, I'm not collecting them to sell them to big pharma.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that is not what's going on here, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's happening is I'm I'm essentially collecting them so that we can, you know, show how important inhuman data is to convince others that that this could be that this could work for them, you know.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the the absence of longitudinal data is actually the you know the largest obstacle to all these modalities being approved because everybody wants the FDA stamp.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not gonna get it for all this, and there will be significant pushback by Big Pharma to anything that can enter their little SSRI, SSNI, and benzochokal on mental health.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you know we're a huge proponent of plant medicines and their impact.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've got a friend uh who was training in special forces, and they cacked off an implosion and a damn staircase came down and hit him on the head.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when he retired, they w they they did a brain scan on him and they declared him terminal.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, look, you got all these fibrous tangles, you got all this stuff in there that we've never seen before.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know where it came from, but uh you better start getting ready to go.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he found psilocybin, and right now they can't find anything in his head, right?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, and uh he's that goes to speak to what you just said, right, Bruce, is like so uh one of the hardest things to do is like communicate this to people, right?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that it there's just so much of that stigma.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you compare that Northeastern study, right, which was done like via an FDA approved, but that was an FDA-approved study, and then you compare the inhuman stories that you just mentioned, and then that individual's brain scans, and then you put those together and you can show, right, what you're talking about are those protein tau entanglements, and and then now this individual doesn't have them anymore.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that's real, and we should be listening to that, even though it wasn't done with a synthetic medicine and it wasn't done through an FDA-approved study.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: That to me doesn't matter, right?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: But that's that's the trick.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, that's that's kind of the game really that we're all playing, right?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is how to put this into language.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then secondly, you know, a lot of people ask, well, you know, you're not gonna be able to publish it in Nature or Frontier.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, this is not for the scientific community, this is for individuals that that have been through the system that are hopeless, that are suicidal, the number one cause of death after a traumatic brain injury is suicide.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we just that's who this is for.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't for anybody else.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, and it uh you're and it shouldn't be.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right now, the people that are finding like I I go to um you know quite a few uh ceremonies to observe to talk, and the people that are coming there have been through everything that Big Farmer has, they've been through everything the medicine, the the the uh the whole healthcare system has, and they are done.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing has helped them.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to veterans that have literally a bag of 15 different medications, and they'll say, I don't want this.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I for whatever whatever negative impact on their health that they all cause, I don't want this no more.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Well, let's give you more, right?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or let's try this other one.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's all about what else is out there.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you a quick question.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: I ask everybody that's in this space, out of all the people, say you say 50 people have gone through your uh program, how many of them said that this has had a positive impact on my health and my future?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: 98%.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um now.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: So my daughter's a nurse practitioner of psychiatric medicine, and the drugs that she prescribed, you said have a 7%.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: She said, Dad, they they might help.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have a 25% expectancy that they were going to improve or it positively impact my patient.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then yet I talked to you know, practitioners of ayahuasca, psilocybin, ketamine, H-Bot, you you name all those therapies that you tried before you found psilocybin.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Every one of them has an enormously high level of positive impact on the patient.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so what we're you know, what we want to work with providers like you is like say, look, why isn't this enough?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: When people are literally getting ready to suck on the end of a pistol or run off a cliff like my son, or or if just think of all the other tragedies that can take place, why don't we allow them access to these modalities that have changed lives in order to save them?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, I think um I think things are changing.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, and I talked to a lot of my friends of uh the people that like are focusing on on kind of the why not.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, I'm trying to highlight like so Enthea is uh is um you know a specialty uh network program that is actually working with employers to to use their insurance um to help people subsidize this this type of treatment.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's cash pay, you know, so that's sometimes difficult for people.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason that you know some people want to go through the FDA is so that you know they can play that whole um capitalize on insurance and and those types of things.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: So right.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I just think you know, I think focusing on messaging and and and collecting this data, you know, we're about to, you know, raise funds to be able to put 25 people through this program.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: We already did eight.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and I think that'll go a long way, you know, to to showing, and it's not expensive.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't a clinical trial to spend$300 million, right?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're talking about um a couple hundred thousand dollars to be able to to show this and and show it well.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and you know, you're uh there's a lot of forces that, you know, pull people in, right?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but typically, and I think unfortunately, there's so many people that have been through the healthcare system, especially with concussion, that have spent so much money and time that are so frustrated that that, you know, and then there's so many stories that already are out there of of people positively impacted that they're taking advantage of this.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to be very careful to say it's not a panacea, you know, there's there's things that I do um on a yearly basis to to make sure that I maintain my brain health and quality of life, um, mainly like a lot of lifestyle things, obviously.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then I continue to do this medicine, you know, once or twice a year.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I mean it's it's it's the it's by far the best medicine I've ever I've ever come across.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it lasts, you know, for me, with a good lifestyle and good habits, like up to six months.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need anything else.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: I just work out and eat well and and um yeah, it's pretty amazing.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh good for you.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we and we notice that too with other plant medicines that you know, other plant medicines like like ayahuasca is really good at encouraging, you know, getting rid of a lot of uh you know, a lot of trauma so that you can focus on those better uh lifestyles and better changes.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: What it does to the brain, I think there's a lot of good positive stuff there because you know it hurts.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, to your point is that you know, these are lifestyle changes that are impacting people that had no hope.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've got to, you know, you know, continue with a you know a protocol once or twice a year, and your lifestyle has increased from a health perspective so so drastically that you're back with your family, that's a hell of a lot better than being in a home.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: That a lot of the folks that we talk to are in.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's uh it's amazing what you're doing.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to get a copy of your legislation.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: We have a very uh pro-veteran uh legislation here.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're doing a study uh with ketamine right now and uh brain supplementation.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh ayahuasca's a little bit too far for the Congress down here, like, hey dude.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if we could, you know.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Ketamine's nice, it's FDA approved.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what what state are you in?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Florida, sir.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you are.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so am I.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in uh yeah, I'm in, I'm in Jupiter.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: We've been talking a lot about um we have a couple representatives that are actually interested in in you know some form of uh of a possible adult therapeutic use bill.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, no, that's definitely we'll I got a couple for you.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I got a couple more for you.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, and uh we'll talk about that.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: We because we got we got funding for the for the ketamine study.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'd like to do is work with you to submit your study to the state to go ahead and and and open that up here in the state of Florida.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're very yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's so that's another reason like why I started the center, right?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is because you know, there's been over 9,000 people treated in Oregon and nobody collected any data.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason that you would collect data on top of this is like, all right, we could show this data in the veteran population to other states, and it'll be so much easier to open up more of these programs.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, absolutely.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Let's um, you know, it's a fortuitous, you know, call this a God wink.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, it's how God works, man.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: No doubt, bro.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's all over this, man.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is amazing.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh, I mean, what you're doing right now, your heart, your passion are all in this, and and your selfless service is uh, you know, just just just nuts.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then I and so it's good.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to meet another guy in the battle right now or another person, uh, because there's just so much carnage out there, and uh, we we both deal with it um on a daily basis.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I got a I got a kid for you right now that really needs your program, and I'll if I'll even try to help, I'll raise the money for it.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh a lot we can do together.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so look, uh, you know, tell us how people find you, man.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: As I close out the show, I'd like to uh talk about, you know, you talked about the studies, where you're at right now, where you're going, and then how do people find out about your clinic, the program, where can they go to research psilocybin so they understand, you know, number one, everybody you need to understand what you're dealing with.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then number two, what are the potential outcomes that could change their life?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, thanks for asking.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm on Instagram pretty regularly.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: So Daniel uh Carcillo13, uh, LinkedIn is just my name, Facebook, my name.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um our uh center is called Experience Onward.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: So websites www.experienceonward.com.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we've got a number of different resources there.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: So all the links to over 150 cited studies from Johns Hopkins.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we've got Andrew Huberman on there talking about the risks and benefits in a in a pretty extensive 40-minute um YouTube about you know the science and and everything involving psilocybin.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we've also got you know a clip from uh Roland Griffiths, who's the who was the lead researcher um at Johns Hopkins.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: He recently, you know, passed away from uh a cancer diagnosis, but um, you know, just talking about you know all the studies that they've done on end-of-life anxiety and terminal ill cancer patients and and um and depression, and and so there's pretty good resources on the website for people to get to get started.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, I I have a you know a business line that's that's attached to my phone that people can um you know text and and uh and then email is Daniel at experienceonward.com.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: So if anyone reaches out and they want more information, I've got decks and documents um ready to go specifically on uh concussion and um and the latest research.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just uh just reach out through those those platforms.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I wish I would have met you earlier because Friday we're having an actual the first town hall in repetitive blast exposure, and we've got a panel of veterans and uh a better veteran a panel of specialists and modalities that are not normal.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh wonder if I could squeeze you in.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: But where's it at?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's in uh Tampa.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're having the first, and we're we have we host the only repetitive brain uh summit on repetitive brain trauma in the world in Tampa.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be September 3rd and 4th.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to have you come out and maybe give a presentation on psilocybin.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be great.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a two-day summit.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we got a lot of really great speakers and and presenters there.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll get you the invite.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: So Daniel, man, thank you so much for the time you get spent with me today.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: What an amazing journey you've been on.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, God bless you and your organization, and and thank you uh for the work you've done on yourself for your family and the work that you're doing for others.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we look forward to hearing from you later on, and uh, we'll have you back on the show for sure.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate it, Bruce.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right, folks, as we close out another amazing episode of Broken Brains with another X just a special guest, Daniel Garcio.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you reach out to him, make sure you find him.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't know about psilocybin and you know people that are struggling, I'm telling you, it's one of those medicines out there that can help.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And with people at the end, you know, that's why the show exists.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now you know, get out there.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: If there's somebody that needs help, reach out to Daniel and let him know.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, the book, the only book for parents, free on our website.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Go out there, get it, give it away, birthday presents, whatever.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the town hall on Friday is gonna be a big event as we had to reschedule it because of construction concerns last month.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that'll be the repetitive brain uh um health uh repetitive blast exposure town hall we're hosting.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, do expect we're gonna have our NFL seminar, which we're gonna open up to NHL players on repetitive head impacts, how to diagnose them, how to validate them, and then how to go back to your providers for coverage, and then what are these programs like Daniels that can help you get back on your feet?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have a seminar for parents.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget, our summit on repetitive brain trauma is going to be September uh 2nd and 3rd here in Tampa.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing guests showing up right now, some of the top-ranked speakers in the country on this issue, which again is not taught in any medical, nursing, psychological course.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like Daniel, you have to find your way, unfortunately, until we get this fixed.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, for all of you, thank you so much.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Keep your brains healthy.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk to you later.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Another exciting episode.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and once again, God bless you all.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Take care, and we'll see you later.