Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 83. Nina Williams, Pro Rock Climber

Transcript

83. Nina Williams, Pro Rock Climber · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:01
Speaker 1: Hey guys, Emily a body here with episode eighty three
0:04
Speaker 1: of Hurdle, a podcast that talks to everyone from entrepreneurs
0:07
Speaker 1: to top CEOs and athletes about how they've gotten through
0:10
Speaker 1: tough times hurdles of sorts by leaning in to wellness.
0:15
Speaker 1: I'm fresh back this week from Denver, where I can't
0:18
Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this is my first time hanging out
0:20
Speaker 1: in the city. Absolutely stunning. I did things like running
0:24
Speaker 1: and hiking, and I drank craft beers, and I ate
0:27
Speaker 1: all the ice cream and just did all the things
0:30
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do in the Mile High City. I
0:32
Speaker 1: also had the opportunity to sit down with Nina Williams.
0:36
Speaker 2: She's a pro climber for the.
0:37
Speaker 1: North Face and she specializes in a type of climbing
0:41
Speaker 1: called high balling, which is essentially bouldering, but just climbing
0:45
Speaker 1: really really high boulders. More on the craziness that is
0:50
Speaker 1: her passion in just a little bit before we get
0:53
Speaker 1: to it today, quick shout out to my sponsor Whoop
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Speaker 1: no code necessary. So today I sit down with Nina Williams.
2:21
Speaker 1: Like I said, she's a pro climber and the type
2:24
Speaker 1: of climbing that she does is super super difficult.
2:28
Speaker 2: You know.
2:28
Speaker 1: Usually we think of rock climbing, and we think of
2:30
Speaker 1: people on blay with a rope attached to them, a harness,
2:34
Speaker 1: but Nina's style of climbing involves none of that stuff.
2:37
Speaker 1: It's just her moving up boulders the best that she can,
2:40
Speaker 1: and of course there are crash pads under her, and
2:43
Speaker 1: we talk about all the logistics of that in today's episode,
2:46
Speaker 1: we also chat about how she got her start at
2:48
Speaker 1: a really young age and the pressures that came hand
2:51
Speaker 1: in hand with that. She opens up to me about
2:53
Speaker 1: a hurdle moment right when she started climbing, where she
2:56
Speaker 1: actually cheated her way through a couple of competitions, and
3:00
Speaker 1: it is something that she looks back on now and
3:03
Speaker 1: isn't all that proud of course about her actions, but
3:06
Speaker 1: she can say without a doubt that that experience as
3:09
Speaker 1: a younger girl really taught her so many things. She
3:13
Speaker 1: talks to me about the sanctions that happened because of
3:16
Speaker 1: her actions, and the lessons that volunteering instead of climbing
3:20
Speaker 1: for an entire calendar year really taught her during this
3:23
Speaker 1: tough time. She also continues on to tell me how
3:26
Speaker 1: she got to where she is today, leaving college and
3:28
Speaker 1: pursuing her climbing passions in Colorado. She tells me about
3:32
Speaker 1: why she's back in school now, and a lot of
3:35
Speaker 1: that is because of the lessons that she's learned on
3:38
Speaker 1: the rocks. We chat about failure and fear, and let
3:41
Speaker 1: me tell you this girl's perspective on fear and how
3:45
Speaker 1: to manage it.
3:46
Speaker 2: It's gonna blow your mind.
3:49
Speaker 1: As always, you all know the drill at Hurdle podcast
3:52
Speaker 1: at Emily a Body on Instagram. If you have a
3:55
Speaker 1: hurdle moment of your own to share or just want
3:57
Speaker 1: to say hi, you can always reach out to me
3:59
Speaker 1: at Emily at hurdle dot us. Also special shout out
4:02
Speaker 1: to the New Yorkers that came out to run last Friday.
4:04
Speaker 1: A bunch of us got together about twenty or so
4:07
Speaker 1: and just did about a five k in Central Park
4:09
Speaker 1: and it just feels again so special and surreal that
4:13
Speaker 1: because of Hurdle, because of what I'm putting out into
4:16
Speaker 1: the world, that y'all want to connect and it makes
4:18
Speaker 1: me just feel so so happy. I'd love to know
4:21
Speaker 1: if that's the kind of thing you want to see
4:22
Speaker 1: more often. I would love to know what kind of
4:25
Speaker 1: events you guys want to see from me as I'm
4:27
Speaker 1: putting some stuff together for the new year.
4:29
Speaker 2: So shoot me a.
4:30
Speaker 1: Message, shoot me a DM, shoot me an email, communicate
4:33
Speaker 1: with me because I love to communicate with you. And
4:37
Speaker 1: with that, let's get to hurdling. Today, I'm sitting down
4:52
Speaker 1: with Nina Williams. She is a north Face sponsored pro
4:56
Speaker 1: climber and athlete. Also, when I asked her how she
4:59
Speaker 1: would describe her self, she said, a constantly changing and
5:02
Speaker 1: dynamic human being.
5:04
Speaker 2: How does that make you feel? Makes you feel more confident?
5:10
Speaker 2: In my answer? I think hearing it said back.
5:12
Speaker 1: To me when it said back, it sounds good. So
5:14
Speaker 1: what does being a climber mean for you these days? Like?
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Speaker 2: What are you climbing?
5:18
Speaker 3: So, when I guess when I first started out climbing,
5:21
Speaker 3: it was a lot of indoor competition bouldering style and
5:23
Speaker 3: bouldering is when you climb without any ropes, but usually
5:26
Speaker 3: don't go up that high. So I stayed in bouldering
5:29
Speaker 3: for a long time, and then I moved into sort
5:33
Speaker 3: of taller bouldering, which a lot of people call high
5:36
Speaker 3: ball bouldering, and it's a niche part of the sport.
5:40
Speaker 3: So I have sometimes climbed boulders as tall as like
5:44
Speaker 3: thirty forty or fifty feet tall without any ropes. I
5:48
Speaker 3: do have crash pads at the bottom in case I fall,
5:50
Speaker 3: you know, it'll sort of break my landing. But in
5:53
Speaker 3: addition to bouldering and high ball bouldering, I also do
5:55
Speaker 3: traditional climbing and sport climbing, which is more roped, say
6:00
Speaker 3: fir style stuff.
6:01
Speaker 2: So these days.
6:02
Speaker 3: I'm really doing a little bit of everything while trying
6:04
Speaker 3: to balance normal life.
6:05
Speaker 2: Can we talk about sort of break your fall?
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Speaker 1: Like the keyword on my sentence was just like slightly alarming.
6:12
Speaker 2: So what happens when you fall?
6:14
Speaker 3: Well, generally, when I fall, I'll hit the ground, and
6:20
Speaker 3: the impact of that ground fall depends on how high
6:23
Speaker 3: up I am. The farthest I've ever fallen is probably
6:26
Speaker 3: like twenty feet or so. And the thing about climbing
6:31
Speaker 3: and bouldering in particular, is you actually do more falling
6:35
Speaker 3: than climbing, like you're climbing, but you're also like inevitably
6:38
Speaker 3: you will fall at some point. So I like to
6:41
Speaker 3: say that I got really good at falling as well
6:44
Speaker 3: as I got good at climbing, because you're only as
6:47
Speaker 3: good of a climber as you are at falling to
6:49
Speaker 3: some degree, because that fear can really hold you back.
6:52
Speaker 3: And I think that contributed to my being able to
6:54
Speaker 3: approach high ball bouldering with being like, Okay, I feel
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Speaker 3: comfortable with falling to the point where I can push
6:59
Speaker 3: that height a little bit farther. But of course, you know,
7:02
Speaker 3: once you get into like the forty and fifty foot heights,
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Speaker 3: if I fall from that height, probably going to get hurt.
7:08
Speaker 3: And there's this, I mean, there's a small chance of uh,
7:13
Speaker 3: something worse happening, like dying. But I have enough confidence
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Speaker 3: in myself and in the climbing that I don't really
7:20
Speaker 3: think about the falling at all, and I don't.
7:22
Speaker 1: Want to like underplay like how well you do this
7:26
Speaker 1: insane stuff. I feel like we need to probably like
7:29
Speaker 1: break it down a little bit, because I know in
7:30
Speaker 1: climbing there are all these like jazzy little things that
7:34
Speaker 1: we used to describe the technicality of what you're doing. So,
7:37
Speaker 1: like when someone says that you have bouldered a V thirteen,
7:42
Speaker 1: what does that mean?
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Speaker 3: So the V thirteen is part of a bouldering scale
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Speaker 3: where V zero is the easiest, that could be something
7:51
Speaker 3: as easy as like a ladder, pretty much all the
7:54
Speaker 3: way up to V seventeen, and V seventeen is like
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Speaker 3: this mythical grade there's only there's actually only one in
8:01
Speaker 3: the world. So V thirteen is like on the slightly
8:04
Speaker 3: upper end of that.
8:05
Speaker 2: Got it? Okay?
8:06
Speaker 1: And what is the most insane thing you've ever bouldered?
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Speaker 3: Probably my most recent high ball boulder, which is called
8:16
Speaker 3: Too Big to Flail, And that's a fifty foot tall
8:19
Speaker 3: boulder in Bishop, California.
8:21
Speaker 2: And that is a V What that's V ten? A
8:23
Speaker 2: V ten? Yeah? Okay?
8:25
Speaker 1: You are based out here in Boulder. We're in Denver
8:28
Speaker 1: right now.
8:29
Speaker 2: Yes, Where did you grow up? I grew up in
8:31
Speaker 2: Rhode Island on the East coast. And did you grow
8:35
Speaker 2: up outdoors? Sort of?
8:39
Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time in New Hampshire. I
8:41
Speaker 3: did a lot of skiing and snowboarding when I was young,
8:43
Speaker 3: and I still do that, but I climbed a lot
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Speaker 3: indoors as well, so split my time fifty to fifty
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Speaker 3: indoors and outdoors.
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Speaker 1: Okay, and when you were young, did you ever dream
8:54
Speaker 1: of living out this way? Actually?
8:57
Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 3: When I first started climbing, I went to a competition
9:00
Speaker 3: out in Colorado for the first time, and the minute
9:02
Speaker 3: I saw, you know, the huge expanse of sky and
9:06
Speaker 3: just all these incredibly wide open spaces, one of my
9:09
Speaker 3: first thoughts was, I'm going to live here someday, And
9:12
Speaker 3: then a few years later I moved out here.
9:14
Speaker 2: Talk to me about how you started climbing.
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Speaker 3: So I started climbing because I had tried a variety
9:19
Speaker 3: of different sports and I didn't connect with any of them,
9:23
Speaker 3: meaning I wasn't really good at any of them, like
9:25
Speaker 3: what I tried soccer, in ballet, swimming and horseback riding,
9:29
Speaker 3: but I just didn't feel that natural at any of
9:33
Speaker 3: the sports except for climbing. And so when I started climbing,
9:37
Speaker 3: I was immediately psyched on it. And there was just
9:39
Speaker 3: something about getting up really high off the ground and
9:42
Speaker 3: having to trust the gear and myself that was really
9:45
Speaker 3: appealing to me.
9:46
Speaker 1: How old were you at the time I was twelve
9:48
Speaker 1: years old. See that's like so impressive for a twelve
9:51
Speaker 1: year old. And I mean, like I see little kids
9:53
Speaker 1: at the climbing gym all the time, but in my head,
9:55
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is such an interesting sport for a
9:57
Speaker 1: parent to think like this is exactly what my child
10:00
Speaker 1: should get into.
10:01
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, my parents did not think that this is
10:03
Speaker 3: something I should get into. Actually, my dad, who is now,
10:07
Speaker 3: you know, one of.
10:07
Speaker 2: My biggest supporters, but back then he.
10:09
Speaker 3: Was like, don't you want to try like tennis or something.
10:12
Speaker 2: Is this like a phase.
10:13
Speaker 3: But eventually, you know, they saw how passionate I was
10:15
Speaker 3: and were psyched.
10:16
Speaker 2: Okay, so you start climbing at twelve.
10:19
Speaker 3: Let's say I started climbing when I was twelve and
10:20
Speaker 3: started competing when I was thirteen, and then I continued
10:25
Speaker 3: to compete really up until maybe.
10:28
Speaker 2: Like two or three years ago.
10:29
Speaker 1: Okay, when you first started competing in the sport, did
10:32
Speaker 1: you find like a new appreciation for it?
10:34
Speaker 2: Was it more fun or was it just different? Oh?
10:36
Speaker 3: Okay, so when I first started competing, it was it
10:39
Speaker 3: was definitely more fun. It added this new element and
10:42
Speaker 3: these new challenges for me as a young person. And
10:45
Speaker 3: it pushed me to excel physically and mentally just by
10:50
Speaker 3: that extra motivation.
10:52
Speaker 1: And did you start to meet other people like through
10:54
Speaker 1: the competition aspect of climbing.
10:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I started to meet I mean all of the
10:59
Speaker 3: kids in our region and our area. We all climbed together,
11:03
Speaker 3: and then eventually we started competing against each other, so
11:05
Speaker 3: we were all friends. But then it sort of built
11:09
Speaker 3: our relationships differently once we all started competing to totally.
11:12
Speaker 1: And so as the competition becomes a more regular part
11:16
Speaker 1: of your climbing, what do you start to learn about yourself?
11:21
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're super young and like definitely out
11:23
Speaker 1: a time where you're doing a lot of growing as
11:25
Speaker 1: like a pre teen and a teenager.
11:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess I wasn't thinking all of this
11:32
Speaker 3: consciously back then, but as I was getting into the sport,
11:35
Speaker 3: especially at a time when you know, I was probably
11:37
Speaker 3: going through puberty, and like having all of these thoughts
11:40
Speaker 3: about who I was as a person and who I
11:42
Speaker 3: was developing, who I was developing into. There's a lot
11:45
Speaker 3: of pressure that I put on myself, specifically within the
11:49
Speaker 3: competition realm and on my climbing team. So I was
11:54
Speaker 3: one of the only women on my team, one of
11:55
Speaker 3: the only girls on my team, and my coaches were male,
11:59
Speaker 3: and all the rest of my teammates were male. So
12:01
Speaker 3: that added a different element for me as far as
12:03
Speaker 3: like expectations that I had for myself.
12:06
Speaker 2: So, how did you manage that well?
12:10
Speaker 3: I didn't manage it very well at the time. So
12:15
Speaker 3: when I started competing I was thirteen, and then a
12:20
Speaker 3: year later it turned out I had a lot of
12:22
Speaker 3: natural talent for climbing and competition, and so my coaches
12:26
Speaker 3: and everyone told me, Wow, you know, you're so gifted,
12:29
Speaker 3: You're so talented, you don't even have to try hard
12:31
Speaker 3: for this, you can just do it. And it really
12:34
Speaker 3: targeted this fixed mentality within myself because not only were
12:38
Speaker 3: these validations coming from other people, so it was externally motivated,
12:42
Speaker 3: but by people telling me that I was just naturally
12:45
Speaker 3: gifted at something, it made me feel like I had
12:48
Speaker 3: this innate talent that I had to uphold, as opposed
12:51
Speaker 3: to someone telling me, oh, you're working really hard for this.
12:54
Speaker 3: And so by telling someone you have talent, it made
12:58
Speaker 3: me want to hold on to.
12:59
Speaker 2: That as a post to just work for it.
13:02
Speaker 3: So ultimately I reached a point you know, as a
13:06
Speaker 3: young person, when we had this national competition coming up,
13:09
Speaker 3: and I thought, oh, if I can just impress, like
13:12
Speaker 3: all of my coaches and teammates, if they think that
13:15
Speaker 3: I'm a good climber, then maybe I'll think that I'm
13:17
Speaker 3: a good climber on the inside. Because I really didn't
13:20
Speaker 3: at the time. So during one of our regional competitions,
13:23
Speaker 3: I ended up cheating in order to make it to
13:26
Speaker 3: this national competition because it mattered so much to me
13:29
Speaker 3: what other people thought. So I signed my initials off
13:33
Speaker 3: on some climbs that I hadn't done in the competition.
13:36
Speaker 3: I made it to Nationals and then didn't cheat during
13:38
Speaker 3: Nationals because of the format, and then after Nationals was over,
13:43
Speaker 3: I ended up placing fourth, so I got a spot
13:45
Speaker 3: on the national team. I got a trophy and a
13:47
Speaker 3: jacket and all that stuff. But once Nationals was over,
13:51
Speaker 3: that feeling of inadequacy didn't go away. Unsurprisingly looking back,
13:55
Speaker 3: but you know, I didn't see that as a young person,
13:57
Speaker 3: and so I continued to cheat or a few more
14:01
Speaker 3: competitions after that, and eventually luckily was caught and made
14:06
Speaker 3: I was made an example out of, really so but
14:10
Speaker 3: it just really taught me. You know what, why am
14:13
Speaker 3: I climbing in the first place? Am I climbing because
14:15
Speaker 3: I want other people to think I'm a good climber?
14:17
Speaker 3: Or like, do I actually want to be the best
14:20
Speaker 3: climber that I can be because I want to do it,
14:23
Speaker 3: not because someone else wants me to do it.
14:25
Speaker 2: I love that you said luckily I got caught.
14:29
Speaker 1: I mean, that's such an interesting perspective to have, right,
14:31
Speaker 1: because so many people what you realized at such a
14:34
Speaker 1: young age, and I'm sure with years looking back on
14:37
Speaker 1: it now, is that that experience like certainly happened to
14:40
Speaker 1: teach you something.
14:42
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, because if I hadn't got caught. I mean
14:45
Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't even be climbing today, or I certainly
14:48
Speaker 3: wouldn't be the climber that I am today. I wouldn't
14:51
Speaker 3: have learned those lessons. I wouldn't have really learned the
14:53
Speaker 3: hard way, and that's kind of the only way that
14:55
Speaker 3: I can learn sometimes it's the difficult way. So yeah,
14:58
Speaker 3: I'm ultimately glad that it happened to me.
15:00
Speaker 1: So what happens after this hurdle moment of sorts? Do
15:03
Speaker 1: you like do you pull back from the sport do
15:06
Speaker 1: you lean into the sport, Like, do you get suspended
15:08
Speaker 1: from the sport?
15:09
Speaker 2: How does it happen?
15:10
Speaker 3: So part of my punishment was I was banned from
15:14
Speaker 3: the upcoming climbing season, but I had to volunteer at
15:17
Speaker 3: all of the competitions, which is really difficult because everyone
15:20
Speaker 3: in my community at that time knew that I had cheated,
15:24
Speaker 3: so it was hard to be in that space.
15:26
Speaker 2: But it also forced me to stay.
15:28
Speaker 3: And I did take a short break from climbing, but
15:31
Speaker 3: I thought, you know what, like I really miss it,
15:33
Speaker 3: and I do. I do love the sport for what
15:36
Speaker 3: it is and not just because of what other people
15:40
Speaker 3: think it is for me. So eventually I joined the
15:44
Speaker 3: team again. I took a break from the team because
15:47
Speaker 3: some of the parents wanted me kicked off, but I had,
15:50
Speaker 3: you know, really supportive coaches and most of my teammates
15:52
Speaker 3: were like, yeah, you know, we know that you messed up,
15:55
Speaker 3: but it's okay, We're willing.
15:56
Speaker 2: To take you back. Yeah.
15:58
Speaker 1: And I think that's also so interesting in this conversation
16:00
Speaker 1: with someone the other day, and we were talking about
16:04
Speaker 1: sports as like a pre teen and a teenager in
16:07
Speaker 1: high school and how they can be so just unnecessarily
16:10
Speaker 1: serious when the people that are doing them, the kids
16:14
Speaker 1: that are doing them are at such like a developmental
16:17
Speaker 1: stage that like, they don't it's not professional athleticism here,
16:21
Speaker 1: like it's just kids like trying to be active.
16:25
Speaker 2: I don't know.
16:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's an amazing point because I was really
16:29
Speaker 3: blessed to have. Specifically, my coaches were like, hey, you know,
16:33
Speaker 3: we see the kind of dark place that you're in,
16:36
Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, like, you don't
16:37
Speaker 3: have to impress us, you don't have to impress anybody,
16:39
Speaker 3: like it's just do it for you. And they were
16:42
Speaker 3: amazingly supportive in that way. But I mean nowadays, especially
16:45
Speaker 3: with climbing going into the Olympics and climbing teams getting
16:49
Speaker 3: really serious and the parents getting really serious, it's like
16:52
Speaker 3: it hurts sometimes to see a lot of these kids
16:56
Speaker 3: be in the same place that I was.
16:58
Speaker 2: But to not have that same support system in place.
17:01
Speaker 1: Totally Okay, so you get back on the team, Yeah,
17:05
Speaker 1: and how's that going?
17:08
Speaker 2: It was hard.
17:10
Speaker 3: I felt humiliated, I felt beat down, But you know,
17:17
Speaker 3: life goes on and people don't necessarily forget, but it
17:22
Speaker 3: fades away with time, and I think, you know, most people.
17:26
Speaker 3: Let bygones be bygones, and I just kept climbing.
17:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it's interesting because like you definitely could
17:32
Speaker 1: have walked away.
17:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, could have walked away.
17:35
Speaker 3: But I mean, like I love climbing, Like I knew
17:38
Speaker 3: that from the beginning. I think even when I first
17:40
Speaker 3: started climbing, I knew that I loved it, and then
17:42
Speaker 3: I lost sight of it in the form of ego
17:46
Speaker 3: and pressure. But then once the ego and the pressure
17:50
Speaker 3: were ripped off forcibly, then I was able to get
17:54
Speaker 3: back in touch with what I really loved and just
17:56
Speaker 3: kept doing it.
17:57
Speaker 1: So when does it go from a lot of indoor
18:00
Speaker 1: climbing to like really taking it outside.
18:03
Speaker 3: Well, most of the competitions are indoors, but then when
18:06
Speaker 3: I would go outside, it was more for fun, just
18:09
Speaker 3: like you know, pushing myself physically without the pressure of
18:13
Speaker 3: an arena around. But I mean I did both. So
18:16
Speaker 3: it just depends like I would climb indoors and train indoors,
18:20
Speaker 3: but then I would go outside right whatever I could.
18:23
Speaker 1: Okay, So, so as you're growing up, you're climbing, you're
18:26
Speaker 1: back to climbing, and you're getting to a place where
18:30
Speaker 1: you're doing it more and more often.
18:31
Speaker 2: And then what happens.
18:32
Speaker 3: Growing up throughout my teenage years. I went through high school,
18:35
Speaker 3: went through like you know, still competed, still climbed outside,
18:38
Speaker 3: really did it all fifty to fifty split down the middle.
18:41
Speaker 3: But I loved outdoor climbing so much and living in
18:45
Speaker 3: New England. I mean, I love the East Coast, but
18:47
Speaker 3: the mountains are not quite as big there. So I
18:52
Speaker 3: graduated high school and then I went to college for
18:54
Speaker 3: a few semesters at University of Rhde Island, and that
18:57
Speaker 3: was actually a big turning point for me because I
19:00
Speaker 3: didn't really I've never considered myself a great student, and
19:03
Speaker 3: I've always said, oh, I'm not a classroom learner. I
19:05
Speaker 3: just like, won't really ever be that great in school.
19:08
Speaker 3: So I didn't know why I was at university and
19:10
Speaker 3: I changed my major four times, and I just had
19:12
Speaker 3: this big breakdown in the middle of midterms and was like,
19:14
Speaker 3: I don't want to be here, like I'm wasting money,
19:16
Speaker 3: I'm in all this debt and I don't even know
19:19
Speaker 3: what I'm doing. So I need to go somewhere that
19:21
Speaker 3: makes me happy. And that's when I decided to go
19:23
Speaker 3: to Colorado. Because of that one time. You know, when
19:26
Speaker 3: I went there first for a competition and made that decision.
19:30
Speaker 3: In my head, I was like, that's where I'm going
19:31
Speaker 3: to end up. So I moved to Colorado, And turns
19:35
Speaker 3: out the training support around here and the psych like
19:38
Speaker 3: everyone here is so strong and fit and psyched on
19:41
Speaker 3: training and climbing that it made it really easy to
19:44
Speaker 3: throw myself into a life that completely revolved around climbing,
19:48
Speaker 3: like I dropped out of college, moved out West, like,
19:51
Speaker 3: started working at Starbucks, pretty much started doing anything I
19:54
Speaker 3: could to support my climbing habit.
20:03
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21:10
Speaker 2: Let's get back to it. What did your parents think?
21:19
Speaker 3: Uh, well, I'm an only child, so my parents were
21:22
Speaker 3: not psyched that I was moving away. But at this
21:24
Speaker 3: point I had been climbing for a long time, so
21:26
Speaker 3: they understood my need to go to the mountains, need.
21:28
Speaker 2: To get out. Yeah.
21:29
Speaker 3: Uh.
21:30
Speaker 1: And so you move here and you're climbing all the time,
21:34
Speaker 1: And when does it go from like I'm climbing out
21:36
Speaker 1: all the time to like I'm a pro climber.
21:40
Speaker 3: That's a good question because what qualifies as.
21:42
Speaker 2: Pro right, That's a great I mean, I don't know.
21:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of climbers that get free gear,
21:47
Speaker 3: that are ambassadors to the sport, that are you know,
21:49
Speaker 3: fixtures in their community, and that's really awesome. And then
21:52
Speaker 3: at some point climbers are getting paid. You know, we
21:55
Speaker 3: could start out with like a travel budget or then
21:57
Speaker 3: you move on to salary. So it just and then
21:59
Speaker 3: like people are climbing full time, but then there's climbers
22:02
Speaker 3: that are climbing full time with like also, I don't
22:04
Speaker 3: know regular jobs and lives, So yeah, I.
22:08
Speaker 2: Guess I'm not sure.
22:09
Speaker 3: I think when I finally quit my Starbucks job and
22:13
Speaker 3: my coaching job on the side and I was living
22:15
Speaker 3: entirely off the money for my sponsors, that's when I
22:18
Speaker 3: could say that I was one hundred percent professional.
22:21
Speaker 1: Right, And so do you start traveling more or what
22:24
Speaker 1: happens like, cause were you like kind of hanging around
22:26
Speaker 1: the area for a little while and then like once
22:28
Speaker 1: you really were like this is what I'm really doing,
22:31
Speaker 1: Like I feel like it must have been such a
22:33
Speaker 1: surreal kind of transition.
22:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it was.
22:36
Speaker 3: It wasn't that big of a transition because when I
22:38
Speaker 3: was working at Starbucks, they I had an awesome manager
22:41
Speaker 3: that would let me just drop everything and go for
22:44
Speaker 3: like a month or two and then come back and
22:46
Speaker 3: have a job. So I was already in this mindset
22:48
Speaker 3: of like going on these climbing trips and then coming
22:50
Speaker 3: back and working for a while and then going on
22:51
Speaker 3: another climbing trip and coming back.
22:53
Speaker 1: Uh.
22:53
Speaker 3: And then once I quit Starbucks, it was just this
22:55
Speaker 3: constant cycle of like going on a trip and then
22:58
Speaker 3: coming back and going training and then competing and then
23:01
Speaker 3: going on another trip. And then it just turned into yeah,
23:03
Speaker 3: this constant flow flow.
23:06
Speaker 1: Okay, And do you start to make a lot of
23:08
Speaker 1: good friends in the scene over here?
23:11
Speaker 2: Yes?
23:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the most amazing thing about climbing is
23:14
Speaker 3: that you can go anywhere in the world and know
23:16
Speaker 3: people that are also into the same support as you.
23:19
Speaker 3: So I had a really good base of friends in Colorado,
23:22
Speaker 3: but then I mean I would spend a lot of
23:24
Speaker 3: time in Texas, in Utah, California, and then internationally like
23:28
Speaker 3: in South Africa and Australia.
23:30
Speaker 2: Like just people all over the world I could tap into.
23:33
Speaker 1: So let's talk about then, when you become more of
23:37
Speaker 1: a well known climber, what is that transition like?
23:40
Speaker 2: Because correct me if I'm wrong.
23:42
Speaker 1: You have something like one hundred and sixty seven thousand
23:45
Speaker 1: people following you on social media. So that didn't just
23:48
Speaker 1: happen like in four seconds.
23:51
Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's hard to say, I have never
23:54
Speaker 3: I don't think of myself as a well known climber
23:58
Speaker 3: because I don't ever expect people to know me, Like
24:01
Speaker 3: I don't people know of me through climbing, sure, but
24:05
Speaker 3: I don't know I like walk into the climbing gym
24:06
Speaker 3: or I go to events.
24:07
Speaker 2: And I don't, you know, I don't.
24:11
Speaker 3: I never expect anything in that sense and still don't.
24:14
Speaker 3: So yeah, maybe one hundred and sixty seven thousand people
24:18
Speaker 3: follow me on Instagram.
24:21
Speaker 2: I I guess that's not I'm.
24:22
Speaker 3: Not even sure where that transition happened, either.
24:27
Speaker 1: But I mean it happened. So for you, Like, how
24:30
Speaker 1: has that impacted you? Because like, even for me, like
24:34
Speaker 1: I do not have one hundred and sixty seven thousand
24:36
Speaker 1: people keeping up with me in any capacity, but I
24:39
Speaker 1: do have like fifteen thousand people keeping up with me,
24:42
Speaker 1: and that actually like feels really overwhelming at times.
24:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, it actually feels like a certain type of responsibility,
24:51
Speaker 3: and it means so many different things for different people.
24:54
Speaker 3: But for me, I guess, being well known and having
24:57
Speaker 3: this platform with access to so many people, it's a
25:01
Speaker 3: responsibility for me to be the most authentic person that
25:04
Speaker 3: I can, so that I don't have to pretend to
25:08
Speaker 3: be someone that I'm not, because ultimately being someone that
25:11
Speaker 3: I'm not as a lot harder. But I think that
25:15
Speaker 3: in this age of social media where we're trying to
25:17
Speaker 3: portray these images of ourselves and to put out messages
25:21
Speaker 3: that we think other people will like or enjoy, it
25:24
Speaker 3: just ties back to my previous experiences of external motivators,
25:27
Speaker 3: of being motivated by people outside of us and things
25:31
Speaker 3: that we expect, you know, from other people where but
25:34
Speaker 3: really like the at least in my opinion, the more
25:37
Speaker 3: healthier motivation is something that's internal, that's coming from ourselves.
25:40
Speaker 2: So when I.
25:41
Speaker 3: Look at my platform and I try and think of
25:43
Speaker 3: how I'm representing myself, it's like, I just want to
25:45
Speaker 3: be as true as possible and express what I'm feeling
25:48
Speaker 3: in the moment, you know, taking into consideration a wide audience.
25:52
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm just I'm trying to be me.
25:54
Speaker 2: Just trying to be me.
25:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to like better understand with the bold
25:57
Speaker 1: during situation, because it takes time to work up to
26:01
Speaker 1: what you're doing now. So when did it go from
26:04
Speaker 1: more I would say like traditional bouldering maybe, and not
26:07
Speaker 1: the high the high high stuff that you're doing now,
26:10
Speaker 1: Like when did that really start to happen?
26:12
Speaker 2: And how did you get over?
26:13
Speaker 1: Probably what was a lot of initial fear, I would
26:16
Speaker 1: think to make that transition.
26:19
Speaker 3: To make the transition from bouldering to high ball. Yes,
26:23
Speaker 3: so part of it again ties back into getting good
26:26
Speaker 3: at falling. So I became comfortable with falling. But when
26:30
Speaker 3: I started climbing some of these taller boulders, like between
26:33
Speaker 3: fifteen and twenty feet tall, I would feel my fear
26:37
Speaker 3: in this physical way.
26:38
Speaker 2: So I would feel it.
26:39
Speaker 3: In my body, in my hands, in my eyes, and
26:43
Speaker 3: it became to the point where it would just like
26:47
Speaker 3: overcome me. It would overcome my senses, and that's where
26:49
Speaker 3: I would freeze up, and that's where I would want
26:51
Speaker 3: to downclimb or not try again. But once I realized
26:55
Speaker 3: that this fear was something I could identify and become
26:59
Speaker 3: familiar with, then it wasn't so much a matter of
27:03
Speaker 3: overcoming my fear as much as it was like recognizing
27:08
Speaker 3: it and accepting it as part of myself. Because the
27:11
Speaker 3: minute I accepted my fear as a part of me,
27:14
Speaker 3: then I could remove it from myself because I was
27:18
Speaker 3: familiar with it and say hey, like I hear you,
27:21
Speaker 3: I see you, I feel you in me, but I
27:24
Speaker 3: don't have to let you hold me back because fear
27:27
Speaker 3: it's like this survival instinct. Everyone has fear, Everyone experiences
27:32
Speaker 3: it in these different ways. And the more we try
27:34
Speaker 3: and ignore it and push it back into the dark,
27:37
Speaker 3: then we can't ever see it and properly like grab
27:40
Speaker 3: onto it and say hey, like you're here, and I
27:42
Speaker 3: know you're here.
27:43
Speaker 2: It's like this little it's.
27:44
Speaker 3: Like the monster under the bed that we don't want
27:46
Speaker 3: to acknowledge. But the minute we over rip open the
27:49
Speaker 3: covers and we're like, oh, like this is how I
27:51
Speaker 3: feel when I'm scared. This is what happens to my body,
27:54
Speaker 3: and so therefore I can manage it. Then the fear
27:58
Speaker 3: becomes something that you can like hold in and be like,
28:00
Speaker 3: all right, I'm just gonna put.
28:02
Speaker 2: You in the back.
28:03
Speaker 1: Do you totally geek out over sports psychology? I've gotten
28:07
Speaker 1: yeat really like I'm just listening do you speak? And
28:11
Speaker 1: it's reminding me And I just literally cracked the book.
28:14
Speaker 1: But Matt Fitzgerald's how bad do you Want It? I
28:17
Speaker 1: literally just cracked it. But pretty much the first like
28:20
Speaker 1: four chapters are all about what you are saying and
28:23
Speaker 1: talking about fear and rate of perceived exertion. And so
28:26
Speaker 1: it's so interesting because I think obviously these realizations that
28:31
Speaker 1: you're having during your sport, while you're climbing, as you know,
28:35
Speaker 1: are so applicable to just like everything in life. Have
28:40
Speaker 1: you found that your progress as a climber has enabled
28:45
Speaker 1: you to kind of unlock potential within like maybe even
28:49
Speaker 1: your other relationships and certainly within yourself.
28:51
Speaker 3: Yes, one hundred percent. And that actually so in climbing,
28:56
Speaker 3: there were so many things I told myself that I
28:58
Speaker 3: wouldn't do growing up. I was like, oh, I've never
29:01
Speaker 3: climb V ten, I would never you know, do this
29:03
Speaker 3: high bultb Boulder. I would never get into traditional big
29:05
Speaker 3: wall or any of this stuff. I'd never like be
29:07
Speaker 3: a sponsored athlete. But I proved myself wrong in this
29:11
Speaker 3: sense because it's just these this step by.
29:15
Speaker 2: Step progression that happens.
29:18
Speaker 3: So once I realized these things that I told myself,
29:21
Speaker 3: there were just limits that I placed because I didn't
29:25
Speaker 3: believe in myself at the time. But it's it's just
29:29
Speaker 3: like a lot of bs, it's just all these lies
29:32
Speaker 3: and not even lies. It's just it's like these boxes
29:35
Speaker 3: that we put ourselves in, and we don't want to
29:37
Speaker 3: expand outside of the boxes because it's the unknown. It's
29:39
Speaker 3: like scary stuff that we don't want to see or acknowledge.
29:44
Speaker 3: But once I realized, wow, you know, I am, like,
29:47
Speaker 3: I'm a decent climber, and I can do these things
29:50
Speaker 3: if I really put my mind to it, and I thought, wow,
29:52
Speaker 3: there's so many things that you can apply to life,
29:53
Speaker 3: as I just said. And one of my biggest fears
29:57
Speaker 3: or limitations in life non climbing, was the fact that
30:00
Speaker 3: I've never been a good student, that I'm not a
30:02
Speaker 3: classroom learner. But those are just things that I told
30:04
Speaker 3: myself that I've made myself believe. So I'm actually going
30:08
Speaker 3: back to school the semester for the first time in
30:10
Speaker 3: eight years at University of Colorado, mostly not mostly, but
30:16
Speaker 3: definitely partly to sort of spite myself and say, hey,
30:19
Speaker 3: those are just limitations I told myself long ago. And
30:21
Speaker 3: I know that I can graduate, and I know that
30:23
Speaker 3: I can get good grades, and I know that I'm intelligent,
30:26
Speaker 3: and I'm just going to prove that to me.
30:28
Speaker 1: I know, I was in the seminar a couple of
30:30
Speaker 1: years ago and we were talking about the difference between
30:33
Speaker 1: saying I'm scared of heights and I have brown hair.
30:36
Speaker 1: I have brown hair as a fact, I feel as
30:39
Speaker 1: though I am scared of heights. Like you can work
30:42
Speaker 1: on that. You know, it doesn't it's not a definitive.
30:45
Speaker 1: It's not something that can't change. So it's just identifying
30:48
Speaker 1: when it is like something feels like some kind of way,
30:51
Speaker 1: and when something is some kind of way in differentiating
30:54
Speaker 1: the fact versus like what we believe to be true,
30:57
Speaker 1: I feel like you're the kind of person that probably
30:59
Speaker 1: has a lot of really good books suggestions.
31:03
Speaker 3: Well, actually only have one specific book to recommend. Okay,
31:08
Speaker 3: it's called Mindset by Carol Dweck, and it's a book
31:12
Speaker 3: that's been around for a while, but it focuses specifically
31:16
Speaker 3: on the difference between a fixed and a growth mindset,
31:20
Speaker 3: and it connects.
31:21
Speaker 2: To a lot of stuff that we just talked about.
31:22
Speaker 3: But reading that book helped me tremendously because it applied
31:28
Speaker 3: a lot of good topics but in a really basic
31:31
Speaker 3: and simple to understand way. And honestly, I feel like
31:35
Speaker 3: a lot of books these days are the same thing
31:38
Speaker 3: expressed differently. But what I love about Carol Dweck's book
31:42
Speaker 3: is that it's because it's been around for so long.
31:44
Speaker 3: It's just like a really good foundational book to.
31:47
Speaker 1: Have, even though you are capable when it comes to climbing,
31:52
Speaker 1: to like put that fear on your backside. Can you
31:56
Speaker 1: think back to a time or specific fall or a
31:59
Speaker 1: problem that you were trying to solve that really shook
32:02
Speaker 1: you despite knowing that like you could handle it.
32:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was probably my first real high ball, and
32:11
Speaker 3: by real, I mean this high ball was probably like
32:13
Speaker 3: thirty five or forty feet off the ground, and I
32:16
Speaker 3: had tried it once on a rope the day before,
32:20
Speaker 3: but I didn't try it again after that, like the
32:23
Speaker 3: top tall part, And normally with these high balls I'll
32:26
Speaker 3: climb it from bottom to top at least like two
32:28
Speaker 3: or three or four times, so I get the move styled.
32:31
Speaker 3: But during this first high ball, my lack of experience,
32:33
Speaker 3: I just did the top once and then didn't really
32:36
Speaker 3: expect to make it through the bottom part because that
32:38
Speaker 3: was the really difficult portion.
32:40
Speaker 1: I guess that's something also important to reiterate, because once
32:43
Speaker 1: you get up, you have to get down right.
32:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, And no one talks.
32:46
Speaker 3: About that wells usually there's something called the downclimb, which
32:50
Speaker 3: is like the easiest part of the boulder to climb down.
32:53
Speaker 3: So on this particular boulder, there's like a five to
32:55
Speaker 3: nine down climb, so it's not like too crazy. But
32:58
Speaker 3: I the bottom part of this like forty foot boulder
33:04
Speaker 3: was a V nine boulder problem, and then the upper half,
33:08
Speaker 3: like the last twenty feet of it was five ten ish.
33:13
Speaker 3: But again I only did the the top part on
33:14
Speaker 3: a rope once, and so the next day I went back,
33:19
Speaker 3: made it through the bottom unexpectedly like figured out some beta,
33:22
Speaker 3: and then found myself on the headwall and was like, oh, well,
33:25
Speaker 3: I've done this once before, so I should be able
33:27
Speaker 3: to do it again, like it's totally fine.
33:29
Speaker 2: And it was.
33:30
Speaker 3: And I kept climbing and climbing until I got to
33:33
Speaker 3: about maybe like ten feet from the top, so I
33:37
Speaker 3: was solid, like thirty feet off the ground. And there
33:39
Speaker 3: was this one foot move that I forgot about on
33:42
Speaker 3: a rope because when I was on the rope, I
33:44
Speaker 3: didn't think about it at all. But without the rope
33:46
Speaker 3: everything becomes much clearer and more in focus, and I
33:51
Speaker 3: had to make this foot move on a really slippery
33:54
Speaker 3: nubbin and I just remember pausing and like shake, like
33:59
Speaker 3: starting to freak out in my head, just like, oh
34:01
Speaker 3: my god, Like I felt that fear rising in my chest.
34:04
Speaker 3: But then something slammed the brakes and was like, no,
34:09
Speaker 3: this is a serious situation, like this is kind of
34:12
Speaker 3: an emergency and you cannot freak out right now. And
34:15
Speaker 3: then my second thought was, you know, if you were
34:17
Speaker 3: two feet off the ground, this move would be no issue,
34:21
Speaker 3: So it shouldn't be an issue right now, and so
34:24
Speaker 3: I made the foot move, also understanding like the longer
34:26
Speaker 3: I waited, the more energy I wasted. So made the
34:29
Speaker 3: foot move, got to the top, and then the minute
34:31
Speaker 3: I got, you know, into the safe part. Once I
34:34
Speaker 3: topped out the boulder, all the tension I had been
34:36
Speaker 3: holding just released and my body started shaking, and I
34:39
Speaker 3: was just like I just felt it express physically in
34:43
Speaker 3: all this adrenaline. But yeah, that was a point where
34:46
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I'm not gonna do that again.
34:49
Speaker 3: I don't want to feel this way when I'm climbing
34:51
Speaker 3: up up this high.
34:52
Speaker 2: I want to be.
34:54
Speaker 3: Confident in myself and not like I'm pushing through an emergency.
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Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so anxious?
36:34
Speaker 2: What am I doing? How am I going to get
36:36
Speaker 2: through this?
36:36
Speaker 1: And a lot of the time we do kind of
36:39
Speaker 1: like succumb to it just because And and the thing
36:42
Speaker 1: that's crazy is that even though you have done this
36:45
Speaker 1: so many times, like you still feel that way. So,
36:48
Speaker 1: I mean, do you have any suggestions or tactics that
36:52
Speaker 1: you use to kind of get over that just overwhelming feeling.
36:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
36:58
Speaker 3: So the voice in our head that can manifest as fear,
37:03
Speaker 3: but it can also manifest as doubt and uncertainty. This
37:06
Speaker 3: voice that says, you know, you're not strong enough, you
37:10
Speaker 3: shouldn't be here, you're not good enough, you're not smart enough.
37:14
Speaker 3: That's one part of ourselves. Again, that's like just part
37:17
Speaker 3: of us. It's totally natural to have that. But I
37:20
Speaker 3: like to call on what I refer to as the
37:23
Speaker 3: observer voice, and the observer is the one that can
37:27
Speaker 3: look at that part of us kind of like in
37:30
Speaker 3: this dual mirror type way and be like, huh, it's
37:34
Speaker 3: interesting that you're going through this. You know what's going
37:38
Speaker 3: on here? What factors are making you feel this way?
37:41
Speaker 1: Like?
37:42
Speaker 3: What is the context? What is the situation? The observer
37:45
Speaker 3: is able to be totally objective and specifically to use
37:49
Speaker 3: the word interesting in a way that evokes curiosity. And
37:52
Speaker 3: I love the word interesting in particular. I don't know
37:54
Speaker 3: if you've ever noticed in conversation, but people are always like, oh,
37:57
Speaker 3: that's so interesting, or like it can be either positive
38:00
Speaker 3: or negative, but it usually is just like, oh, it's
38:03
Speaker 3: like a little bit more questioning, a little more curiosity.
38:05
Speaker 3: So when I use the observer voice to engage curiosity
38:08
Speaker 3: in the situation, it's able to take that element of
38:11
Speaker 3: fear out and just be like, Okay, what are the
38:13
Speaker 3: facts what's going on here that I can change that
38:17
Speaker 3: I have control over? And then what do I not
38:20
Speaker 3: have control over that I.
38:21
Speaker 2: Can just like be okay with.
38:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, So tapping into the observer voice for me is
38:26
Speaker 3: a way to be like, all right, you know, what's
38:27
Speaker 3: going on with my body, what's going on with my
38:29
Speaker 3: heart rate, what's going on in my head? What can
38:31
Speaker 3: I discard that's not helping me right now? And what
38:34
Speaker 3: can I tap into that will help me?
38:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
38:37
Speaker 1: I mean, where have you fell in a climbing experience
38:40
Speaker 1: that you have literally so much so had to tap
38:44
Speaker 1: into this observer voice.
38:46
Speaker 3: Uh, probably on too big to flail because the style
38:51
Speaker 3: of climbing is really insecure. So at several points with
38:56
Speaker 3: some of the feet, you know, they were really bad.
38:57
Speaker 3: There were like I could have popped off, and I
39:01
Speaker 3: felt that fear rising up. I could like hear my
39:03
Speaker 3: heart beat in my ears, and I could you know,
39:06
Speaker 3: my hands were really sweaty and my limbs were shaking sometimes.
39:09
Speaker 3: But I used this observer voice to just think, like, oh, like, okay,
39:14
Speaker 3: your heart's beeeding really fast and you can hear that
39:16
Speaker 3: right now. But that's okay because you've done these moves before,
39:20
Speaker 3: you know what to do and you just have to
39:23
Speaker 3: keep going.
39:24
Speaker 1: What would you say has been one of the best
39:27
Speaker 1: pieces of advice that you've been offered in your career
39:31
Speaker 1: so far as a climber.
39:35
Speaker 3: I think, and this is I mean, I've gotten lots
39:37
Speaker 3: of great pieces of advice from a lot of people,
39:39
Speaker 3: but one that always comes to mind was something my
39:43
Speaker 3: coach said to me a long time ago, and it
39:46
Speaker 3: wasn't like, you know, a little snippet of words of
39:51
Speaker 3: wisdom or anything, but basically he told me that it's
39:54
Speaker 3: not productive to put climbers or other people on these
39:59
Speaker 3: petestals and to you know, like celebrities or pro climbers
40:04
Speaker 3: or you know, anyone in this world. We're all just
40:06
Speaker 3: people trying to work through our own lives and our
40:09
Speaker 3: own issues and problems, and so to believe that anyone
40:13
Speaker 3: is like so much better or so much worse than
40:16
Speaker 3: someone else really just holds us back and holds our
40:20
Speaker 3: own growth back because we're looking to other people. Not
40:24
Speaker 3: that we shouldn't look to other people for inspiration, but
40:26
Speaker 3: we should really look to ourselves for inspiration and growth,
40:29
Speaker 3: because that's where the strongest source is is within ourselves.
40:34
Speaker 3: So that's something I've always hold on to.
40:36
Speaker 2: Come back to.
40:37
Speaker 1: I love that now when you think about what it
40:39
Speaker 1: is that like you want to do next, like what's
40:41
Speaker 1: on the radar.
40:43
Speaker 3: Honestly, I would really love to graduate, that's my goal
40:48
Speaker 3: number one. But I'd love to get more into big
40:52
Speaker 3: wall traditional climbing, a little more adventure style climbing, like
40:56
Speaker 3: I love highballing, but I don't want to pursus sue
41:00
Speaker 3: it as like as a sport, Like I don't want
41:05
Speaker 3: that to be my only thing because I like, I
41:07
Speaker 3: love that type of climbing for the aesthetics, because it
41:10
Speaker 3: makes me really happy. But the minute I turn it
41:12
Speaker 3: into something like, oh I have I have to go
41:14
Speaker 3: climb something tall or like push the limits, that's just
41:17
Speaker 3: it's an external motivator. So yeah, I'm just exploring my
41:21
Speaker 3: options and staying psyched.
41:22
Speaker 1: And obviously over the past few years, like I feel
41:25
Speaker 1: like more than ever, climbing has kind of come to
41:27
Speaker 1: the forefront, especially like in a pop culture sensation. What
41:31
Speaker 1: would you say, like, how does that make you feel?
41:34
Speaker 1: Is that like something that excites you? Is that something
41:36
Speaker 1: that you're like, Oh, I kind of wish this wasn't happening.
41:39
Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's awesome. I think it's awesome because
41:41
Speaker 3: I think it's inevitable. Like there's no use saying I
41:44
Speaker 3: wish it wasn't getting so big. Like climbing is great
41:47
Speaker 3: and I'm unsurprised that it's getting mainstream. I just encourage
41:52
Speaker 3: people to, you know, climb outside, climb in the gym,
41:56
Speaker 3: like go wherever they're happy, find a support system and
42:00
Speaker 3: don't let anyone else try to tell you what climbing is,
42:03
Speaker 3: because climbing is what you make of it. Whether you
42:06
Speaker 3: want to you know, climb outside and like be a
42:09
Speaker 3: bit a great big adventure, or if you just want
42:11
Speaker 3: to let go do it for fitness and do it
42:13
Speaker 3: for fun, like make it into whatever you want it
42:15
Speaker 3: to be, and like.
42:16
Speaker 2: That's what I love. That's why I love the sports
42:18
Speaker 2: so much.
42:18
Speaker 1: I also think that being a female climber is like
42:21
Speaker 1: an interesting thing because for so long, like we've seen
42:24
Speaker 1: men do this, but now, especially with the rise of
42:28
Speaker 1: climbing being in the mainstream media and seeing so many
42:31
Speaker 1: more of these documentaries and seeing women get outside, it's
42:34
Speaker 1: really empowering. But it's also like, again, like something that
42:36
Speaker 1: we haven't seen much of before. So what does it
42:39
Speaker 1: mean to you to be someone again, Like going back
42:42
Speaker 1: to that reference point of having so many people like
42:44
Speaker 1: keeping up with you on social at least, like people
42:46
Speaker 1: are seeing you in a way and you're inspiring people
42:49
Speaker 1: to do something that maybe they didn't think was something
42:51
Speaker 1: that women would be doing.
42:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean women.
42:56
Speaker 3: I think I don't want to make like a huge generalization,
42:59
Speaker 3: but I think in general, women are told to stay
43:03
Speaker 3: safe and be careful and not take risks, and climbing
43:07
Speaker 3: offers so many avenues to do the opposite of that,
43:11
Speaker 3: whether it's climbing you know, a fifty foot boulder or
43:13
Speaker 3: even a five foot bolder or something like that makes
43:15
Speaker 3: you scared. And the fact that women can do these
43:19
Speaker 3: things and really keep up with the men to some degree.
43:23
Speaker 2: Is amazing.
43:24
Speaker 3: And I'm I feel in such a position of privilege
43:29
Speaker 3: and luck to be doing the things that I do
43:32
Speaker 3: and to inspire other women and hopefully inspire like everyone
43:37
Speaker 3: regardless of gender. But to be able to speak to
43:40
Speaker 3: an audience of women and say, hey, like, yeah, women
43:43
Speaker 3: are out here doing it. Like if I'm doing it,
43:45
Speaker 3: then you can do it too. I'm in a weird
43:48
Speaker 3: place with this specific topic because I grew up in
43:51
Speaker 3: a time where I was the only woman. Not the
43:53
Speaker 3: only woman, but there just weren't other female mentors around me.
43:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I had to.
43:58
Speaker 3: Rely on myself to to inspire and to push myself,
44:02
Speaker 3: and that can be really overwhelming. Yeah, and it was difficult,
44:05
Speaker 3: And that's honestly one of the factors that led to,
44:07
Speaker 3: you know, one of the reasons why I ended up
44:08
Speaker 3: cheating is because I wanted to.
44:10
Speaker 2: Keep up with the boys.
44:11
Speaker 3: But these days there are so many inspiring female figures
44:15
Speaker 3: and a much more powerful female community within climbing that
44:19
Speaker 3: I think it's awesome that women can get together and
44:21
Speaker 3: like go to these all female festivals or competitions and
44:24
Speaker 3: like find community in each other. And I really encourage that.
44:28
Speaker 3: But I also think that women should not limit themselves
44:34
Speaker 3: to only being inspired by other women, like to go
44:36
Speaker 3: out and do things, not to be like the first
44:39
Speaker 3: woman to do something, but just to be the first
44:40
Speaker 3: person to do that overall. Yeah, so it's a fine line.
44:44
Speaker 3: I think there's like a lot of different ways to
44:45
Speaker 3: look at it.
44:46
Speaker 1: But again, when people look to you for inspiration, they
44:49
Speaker 1: come to your page the someone who's super strong obviously,
44:53
Speaker 1: like you have arms that are amazing because you climb
44:57
Speaker 1: very big, very big rocks, So they see that. But
45:00
Speaker 1: when you look in the mirror, what is it that
45:02
Speaker 1: you see?
45:06
Speaker 3: I want to look at myself in this like reflective
45:08
Speaker 3: mirror here.
45:09
Speaker 2: Uh gosh.
45:10
Speaker 3: I mean, like I said before, I see someone that's
45:14
Speaker 3: in a constant state of change. I see a young
45:18
Speaker 3: woman who's trying to figure herself out and who always
45:21
Speaker 3: will be trying to learn more about myself and the
45:25
Speaker 3: people around me, and I'm really excited about that. So
45:28
Speaker 3: I look in the mirror and I see my past
45:30
Speaker 3: self and my future self, but I mostly just see
45:33
Speaker 3: the present me who's trying to ask all the questions.
45:37
Speaker 1: Aside from climbing and obviously your education at the moment,
45:40
Speaker 1: what else are you super passionate about?
45:44
Speaker 3: Ooh mmm, gosh, I love my hedgehog. Oh my god,
45:49
Speaker 3: pet hedgehog.
45:50
Speaker 2: What's your hedgehog's name?
45:51
Speaker 3: Her name is Franki Evon Quillsberry.
45:54
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, that's not a pet name at all. Where's
45:58
Speaker 1: the name from? Well?
46:00
Speaker 3: I chose Frankie because she's a girl, but I kind
46:03
Speaker 3: of like the idea of like this girl boy name
46:05
Speaker 3: and then Vonk Wilsbury, you know, just add some flair
46:08
Speaker 3: to the end.
46:09
Speaker 2: Willsbury. How long have you had her?
46:12
Speaker 3: I've had her since she was a baby, So for
46:14
Speaker 3: the last five years?
46:15
Speaker 2: Do you travel with her? I used to, but I
46:17
Speaker 2: know't anymore. She's gotten a little dream climb.
46:22
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's a hard that's a hard one. Probably
46:30
Speaker 3: something in Yosemite. Yeah, I love I love that area. Gosh, Actually,
46:38
Speaker 3: you know what A dream climb is something is a
46:43
Speaker 3: climb that I could bring someone else up and share
46:48
Speaker 3: that experience, like have that experience for them be really
46:51
Speaker 3: new and exciting and for me just being able to
46:55
Speaker 3: share that experience with them. So any climb, you know,
46:57
Speaker 3: because I could talk for days about like personal goals
47:00
Speaker 3: and like climes that I'm psyched on, but I think
47:01
Speaker 3: a dream climb would be a clime that I could
47:03
Speaker 3: bring someone else that's new to the sport up and
47:05
Speaker 3: just be like, hey, like check it out.
47:06
Speaker 2: Isn't this awesome? What excites you right now?
47:12
Speaker 3: Just having quiet time to myself, Like life has gotten
47:14
Speaker 3: a little busy with school and climbing, and any point
47:17
Speaker 3: where I can just sit down and like chill, that's
47:20
Speaker 3: really special.
47:22
Speaker 2: All right.
47:23
Speaker 1: The way that I wind down the podcast, do you
47:25
Speaker 1: have an opportunity right now to offer yourself a piece
47:28
Speaker 1: of advice? Maybe your younger self going through that hurdle
47:30
Speaker 1: moment when you have to take a year off of
47:33
Speaker 1: the sport. You have an opportunity right now to offer
47:35
Speaker 1: yourself one piece of advice. Looking back on that right now,
47:39
Speaker 1: what do you tell yourself?
47:41
Speaker 3: I think I would tell myself, you know, things are
47:44
Speaker 3: really hard right now, but it won't be like this
47:47
Speaker 3: forever and you'll get through it. And as long as
47:53
Speaker 3: you trust in yourself, then things will change.
47:57
Speaker 1: And that's it.
47:58
Speaker 2: Amazing. Thank you so much for sitting down with me. Yeah,
48:01
Speaker 2: thank you.
48:01
Speaker 1: Please take a moment and leave a quick review of
48:04
Speaker 1: the podcast by clicking the link with the description to
48:06
Speaker 1: this episode. We all face multiple hurdles in life. I
48:09
Speaker 1: want to hear about yours. Reach out to me at
48:11
Speaker 1: Emily at hurdle dot us. Connect with the podcast on
48:14
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at Hurdle podcast Nina.
48:17
Speaker 2: Where can they find you? How do they keep up
48:20
Speaker 2: with you?
48:21
Speaker 3: I'm on Instagram at Chaninigan's and I've also got.
48:24
Speaker 2: A Facebook page. I love that. Can you spell that
48:26
Speaker 2: for me? It's s H E N E E N
48:30
Speaker 2: A G I N S. I'm so glad you did that.
48:34
Speaker 1: I am at Emily Abadi. Another hurdle concord. Catch you
48:38
Speaker 1: guys next time.