Latest / Dark Night of the Podcast / Episode 188-The Covenant (2006) with Bret Laurie

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Episode 188-The Covenant (2006) with Bret Laurie · Dark Night of the Podcast

• Roger: Dark night of the podcast, friends, family, lovers, dare I say. I am feeling rested right now. I'm feeling absolutely rested. You haven't heard from us in a couple of days here. it's because ⁓ have been taking some time to just mend after throwing my back out, because my body's falling apart. ⁓ Troy, being a woman of education, And you know, Troy is in the midst of spring break and Troy is treating herself to some personal time. And so ⁓ never want to make Troy record when he has the brief moment ⁓ to go and or take some time for himself. ⁓ You know, he a bit of a break. And I'm just ⁓ lucky to have returning after Troy is returning today after getting a facelift. And for those of you who are watching our videos on YouTube, you know we're posting the video feed now, you'll be lucky to see Troy's new face looking refreshed, looking younger, ⁓ like a 15-year-old cherub, I said. And so here's Troy post ⁓ looking good. ⁓ ⁓ are you doing, Troy? You've come back a changed man after that facelift. ⁓ not Troy. Let's be fucking real. ⁓ Troy is in fact on a break, but we do have a wonderful guest, a guest with great knowledge of the horror genre and of homosexuality, dare I say. It's a very gay person and the right person to step in when Troy is away. Troy and this individual have recorded together multiple times, but I have never had a one-on-one experience, so we're gonna have it right now, just you and me, Brett Laurie. Welcome to Dark Night of the- Bret: Hello? Roger: podcast. How are we doing? Bret: I am so happy to be here, finally get you to myself. I've ⁓ been asking Troy to, I'm like, when can I record with Roger? When can I record with Roger? He's like, well, it'll happen eventually. Roger: I think Troy's like, if you put these two together, it will form a black hole. It will suck everything into it. This is a dangerous combination. Dangerous. And what even makes it more dangerous listeners is because I, like I said, I fucking threw my back out like an elderly person and I'm on some muscle relaxers right now. So who knows how this will go. At a certain point, it may just end up being Brett carrying the whole thing as I pass out in my chair. you know what, we're we're rolling the dice today. I told Brett, I was like, I don't even know if I'm gonna get this thing fucking started. So right now I'm just crossing my fingers this is recording. This is normally all Troy's territory. So I normally get very distracted, but Brett, you know what? Fill us in. It's been a minute since you've been on the show. I feel like you got plenty of things going on in your life. Give us the basics. How are you doing? Fill the listeners in. Bret: Yeah! I feel like it's been probably a year since I was last on. last episode I was on, I think we did ⁓ Luther the Geek, which was really great. Anything ⁓ is ⁓ up my alley. love can't be bonkers, stuff like that. But I feel like last time I was on, I ⁓ about how I edit full-time and I'm a part-time freelancer. And I have some good friends who have ⁓ a... also been on the podcast who I edit for. So I've edited horror fiction for Brandon Perez Sanchez, who you all know from Troy's upcoming film, Hollow Lake. I've also edited for Chris Archesky, who has also co-hosted an episode with Troy. I that so many of us are connected via this podcast. ⁓ And are so many people who ⁓ I've never who I really admire and we all have Dark Knight of the Podcast in common. Roger: ⁓ goodness. Well, you are, you're throwing out some big names. You're coming in here and you're flopping that dick on the table. You're throwing out some big names. love them. We love them. ⁓ my goodness. And yeah, and we have plenty of things to celebrate. know, Brandon and I with Hollow Lake having its screening coming up soon. know, Troy is going to mention it, but he's only going to mention it casually. So like, let me take a moment to you know, throw a little glitter on Troy and acknowledge that Troy's feature film. Bret: You Brandon! Roger: Hallow Lake is having it technically its world premiere in Toronto. How exciting to have an independent film premiered in another country. I mean, give Troy some credit. know, listeners, just keep your eyes peeled because this is something that Troy has put blood, sweat and tears into. And I want to just really acknowledge that for a moment before we jump into our own review here. And, you know, I got to say that Brett, you technically recommended this title and like we were throwing some titles around. And I was like, ⁓ that'll be fun. I'm just going to pull it out of thin air and say, this is the one I'm going to go along with this, this recommendation in a list of many and whole shit. Did we pick the right title for this week's review? Where did this come from? How'd you think of this one? Bret: You have a good choice. So I feel like we both saw, didn't Charles post about it? Slasher Junkie, he shared a trailer for it. And all about 2000s movies. And I know you also love 2000s, like that kind of like early 2000s ⁓ right? Roger: Between shirtless photos he did, correct. mean, fucking look at me. Absolutely. It's my favorite era. And I told you, and I'll tell listeners because it thrills me to the bone. This came out in 2006. It's the Year of Loose by Nelly Furtado. Anytime I have a chance to mention it, I will. Best year. I'm convinced 2006, 2007, best years ever out of all the years that have existed. And yeah, this really feels of that era, doesn't Bret: Thanks You know what also came out in 2006? The movie you guys covered last week, Candy Strippers. So that's a great, I'm glad you mentioned it. Roger: you watched it? not only watch it, you bought it? What a professional. ⁓ Bret: It was only like six bucks. Is it worth six dollars? I guess I'll find out. Roger: What a treat. I mean, physically, is it worth it? You own a physical DVD now, you can't get much cheaper than that. So yeah, I think it would be worth it. Is it a good movie? Is it endearing ⁓ impressive that they pulled off this task on what is very clearly a very small budget? Yeah, good for them. Good for them. Bret: Featuring former Playboy playmates Deanna Brooks and Saria Tota-Wong, Candy Stripers is a sexy, scary thrill ride. Roger: ⁓ and boy does it live up to it. And you'll know which ones are former playmates, I assure you. Absolutely. But I mean, you know, we went from a like a highly sexualized, but cisgender sexualized, let's be clear, horror title ⁓ Candy Stripers 2006. And I ⁓ that unintentionally, we are now covering what is a very homoerotic offering as well. ⁓ Bret: And this is on the farm. Roger: Did you specifically say, let's think of the gayest film possible and cover that? Because that's kind of what it feels like. So like, good on you. You picked the right podcast. Bret: You There, I mean, we're gonna get into it, there, yeah, there is definitely, it can be read in many ways, I think. But this is for the gays and gals. Roger: I I gotta ask, what gay-ass homosexual man came up with this nonsense, truly? I know that the director, Renny Harlan, Harlan, think is his name, ⁓ DeGina Davis. But no, I am convinced this man is actually gay. ⁓ with the writer, J.S. Cardone. Same thing. These are two men that wrote this script, but I cannot believe that the writer of this film, the writer of this script, Bret: What? Roger: was not like a 16 year old girl writing like fan fiction in her bedroom at night. Like that's really how it reads. Bret: It does. There are parts that have kind of like a Twilight vibe a little bit like because it's in it's in that kind of era so there is some like there is definitely some teen teen melodrama going on but yeah no I didn't I didn't look up a lot about the director but I know he did Die Hard 2 and Cliffhanger. ⁓ Going yeah and going into this I really didn't know I actually didn't even watch the trailer the only Roger: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Butch movies. Bret: I feel like I've seen stills from this movie. I always see image of ⁓ in the locker room shirtless, of course. And so, of course, yeah. So automatically I was like, we some eye candy. And the only other thing I knew was that ⁓ one the characters is played by Sebastian Stan or Stan? I don't ⁓ Roger: course. Sebastian Stan, he's sexy as hell and looking good here. I mean, I think he's over 18 in this movie. I'm hoping they're all a little bit older. I mean, he looks great. Bret: I feel like everybody's, everybody's dirty in this movie. Everybody's And he, he of course later became famous as the Winter Soldier in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And he's also in a really great horror movie, Fresh, that I really enjoyed, it's on Hulu. Roger: I love him in Ex Machina is one of my favorite movies of all time. And we're gonna have to cover that here because it definitely has horror vibes, but love him. ⁓ he's, think he's great. I think Sebastian Stan is so good. There's a lot of actors in this that are really recognizable. It feels very of the era. It's like you mentioned Twilight and that's perfect. Like it feels like Twilight bent charmed over a table and railed it raw. And then like Buffy came in and Got some sloppy seconds. It feels so of the era. Bret: They, I feel like they also try to market it like it's a gender bent craft, like the craft, but what if we make it about men? Roger: Which is not at all the case. mean, I don't know. I feel like there's definitely a bit of identity crisis here. so much happens in this movie, ⁓ but it feels extremely low stakes. there's, maybe it's because they're just overloading it with story that the whole thing feels very low stakes. Bret: you much. Roger: There's a lot of CGI in it, but I wouldn't say it's the worst CGI of the era. I have seen worse. There's one really bad effect in it, but overall the CGI is actually kind of competent. So I think I came into this expecting something a lot less good ⁓ than it ended up being. I'm gonna trash on this film, but not the thing I've ever seen. It really isn't. Bret: lovingly trashed. It had vibes. the, was almost like a time of 2000s. Like said, it me of a lot of different movies. It reminded me of, it had underworld vibes too, but I think that's because it's from Screen Gems, which also, it's from the same production company that did Underworld. And I'm pretty sure they did Resident Evil. They did all those like early mid 2000s, Ultra sleek, everything's glossy and coated in blue and it's same vibe. Roger: Yes. Blood and Chocolate, of those films look the exact same and you're right. And there's a lot of digital ⁓ It's very CGI laden, which like, I mean, okay, again, it feels very of the era, but I'm not gonna totally rip it apart. There's something about it that there is at least a vibe that they bring forward with this film. Massachusetts ⁓ is beautiful. Bret: ⁓ my god. Mookie Sky, the whole movie. Roger: haunting and they do play it up with like the CGI mist and they make it always feel very eerie. ⁓ I feel film at least knows its identity and what it's trying to be and it kind of plays with it. It's not totally void of style. So I want to give it some credit in that sense as well. yes, it feels very of that era, but I wouldn't say anything about the wardrobe or how the characters are presented looks ⁓ so dated that it makes it mockable. You get what I mean? ⁓ wearing all black. Everyone looks kind of sleek. no one isn't wearing anything that looks mockable. So there's something about the film that strangely kind of holds up in a way. And I want to give it credit for that as well. Do get what I'm saying? Bret: Yeah, I do feel at times it does have like a 2000s vibe, like the party at the beginning. I feel like some of the clothing, like the girl who, I can't even remember her name. It's still, to me, and for me it probably is because some of the actors, like you have that guy that plays Tyler, he was in Gossip Girl. So you have a lot of 2000s actors that are in actors who I feel like I've only seen them in stuff ⁓ that era. So ⁓ although the, Roger: for sure. Bret: We'll get into Kate, but ⁓ Kate is played by Jessica Lucas and she was in Evil Dead 2013. So was so happy to see her on this. Roger: Also in Cloverfield. Yeah, we've got some good horror credits. I have noted also Laura Ramsey, who plays Sarah, is in one of my personal favorites, The Ruins. Bret: She's also in No One Lives, yeah. Roger: And then of course, Chase Crawford, who we love as the deep in the boys, but ⁓ he was in Haunting of Molly Hartley. So like, not like this is totally void of recognizable personalities from the horror genre. there's actually some respectable credits here. The actors are fairly competent, ⁓ though I don't the film gets their best performances. Taylor Kitsch. ⁓ who is like, I wouldn't say he's the best actor I've ever seen in my life, but I've seen him do a lot better than what I see from him here. And I do realize there's a lot of moments that I felt like were ADR'd, were dubbed over. ⁓ audio just at times, their dialogue sounds kind of disconnected and it makes the performances feel very flat. But luckily the two focal leads going into this, I would say the two focal leads are the strongest performances and kind of carry the film. And they're the characters of Caleb. and Sarah. though they're forced to do absurd things over the course of this movie, the storyline is ⁓ nonsense and absolutely no sense. ⁓ And it pulls you into the story acting like you understand what the hell they're talking about, which you do not. But they're forced to do some really absurd stuff and they make it out of this looking still pretty good. I got to say for such a kind of cheesy ⁓ Obviously geared for a certain team fan base I think this is very intended for a PG 13 fan base luckily the two leads especially I think are pretty likable and have some good chemistry. What do you think on that? Bret: Yeah, no, they were very convincing as two people who really liked each other. I don't think there was ever a moment in the movie where I was doubting, oh, they couldn't, I can't see them together. Yeah. Roger: Yeah, well I feel like it's time to kind of get into this and we'll start from the beginning as we always do. But yeah, anything you want to interject for our listeners before we get into 2006's The Covenant. Bret: I was just really, I was really excited to see Jessica Lucas because I'm, Evil Dead 2013 is like one of my favorites from that mid-2000s, guess ⁓ 2010s. ⁓ was was happy to see her in it, but yeah, we can get right into it. As Troy would say, yeah, let's get right into it. Roger: Let's get into it, shall we? All right. 2006 is the and like, bitch from the moment that kind of awful ⁓ 2000s font the screen talking all about the power ⁓ and capital and ⁓ the book damnation. again, any of us know what it's ranting about whatsoever. All this nonsense. it's very obvious the era that we're diving into. It kind of smears the screen with this CGI overlay. But again, like I've seen this done before and done a lot worse. And I actually think this intro, as you start to get into the visuals of the Salem witch trials and all of these illustrations and everything, ⁓ it's pretty competent. it kind of dated, but it's still fun. And I do think you know, with the score coming in and everything, you know exactly what you're getting into it. Bret: They give you very familiar imagery and tropes from things that you will recognize like, yeah, like you were saying, Salem witch trials, all that stuff. And yeah, they basically fill you in on in 1692, five powerful witch families from Ipswich, Massachusetts. They form a secret pact known as the Covenant. And to avoid persecution, they agree to keep their powers hidden and to regulate how magic is used. But. One of the five families abuses their power. And so then the other four families unite to banish them, them of their status. And then the story basically jumps to present day. Roger: And ⁓ thing I appreciate, though I think it might almost make it feel a little too rushed, which is crazy because the story is so bloated, but to start it off, that is the intro. It's not like there's a prologue sequence here or something that's kind of setting the groundwork. as soon as the movie itself begins, you are into it ⁓ and you see this group boys standing on this fucking mountain cliff ⁓ looking down on a beach party I'm just, no, it's a forest party below them. And they're like, should we get into it? Let's go. And they fucking jump off the cliff and they're flying down to the ground, landed in big dramatic fashion. And you're like, whoa, okay. It's not like Twilight where you have this character come into this situation and slowly things start to unfold. No, you the viewer are smack dab in the middle of it. And I kind of like that it just throws you right into mix instead of setting up this big long prologue. You know what I mean? Bret: And that whole scene where they jump off that to me is very Lost Boys coded. One by one, they jump off the edge of the cliff into the fog. And I feel like they legit copied and pasted the scene right out of the Lost Boys. Because David, Michael, and everyone, when they're hanging off of the bridge and they each drop below, I don't know. And when all four of them are marching up to the party, of ⁓ If you put it side by side with Lost Boys, it's the same ⁓ Roger: It's literally, it's The Lost Boys, but with witches instead of vampires. And I honestly, like one thing I'll say, Brett is like, I thought for the longest time this film was about vampires. So what is about witches? I was like, ⁓ okay. And like, whatever. But yeah, it's very interchangeable. Witches, vampires, tell them the same story for the most part. And so yeah, it's like this big CGI spectacle. They're dropping down from the sky. And again, I've seen it a lot worse from this era. I've seen it a lot worse. So I'm not gonna slam on this specific CGI. ⁓ Bret: Okay. Roger: But the guys approach the party and you learn about multiple characters through banter amongst party goers. again, they're quick. They acknowledge the character of Sarah, pretty blonde, female lead. ⁓ she just transferred here. that's Chase. Through dialogue, they just set the groundwork for all of the characters. And again, it's almost maybe a little too quick. Cause all of a sudden you're just in it, but kind of appreciate that they just got right to the chase, you know? Bret: You literally meet like characters at once or not. I think like if you count the two jerks, the bully and the other girl, you get nine characters immediately. ⁓ Like you you don't get any time. You're just like, you're in the scene. But Kate, who is dating one of the four ⁓ sons of Vipswitch, Kate is dating Pogue and Kate is played by the amazing Jessica Lucas. And she basically ⁓ fills Sarah in. So Kate and Sarah are roommates. Kate basically fills Sarah in on like, yeah, who's who at this, at the Academy, who's here at the party. She tells Sarah to stay away from a guy named Aaron, who's a school bully who I feel he has no purpose in this movie, but, and then the other chick Kara, who's also kind of a stuck up, I like these are extra characters that couldn't, I don't know. ⁓ I feel like they're yeah. Roger: have their scenes cut. ⁓ Like they feel like they were meant to be more important because they have this whole intro sequence and then Aaron has like one other moment but other than that they have no impact on the story. Bret: Yeah, like he's in the locker room later on, bullying somebody, but yeah, they don't really add much to it. They're just mean humans. Kate and Sarah also spot a guy named Chase that played by Sebastian Stan. ⁓ like Sarah, Chase is also new in town and Kate says something like, I don't know much about him, but I intend to find out. And then the girls spot Caleb and the others and Kate's like, they're here. And Sarah's like, who? The Sons of Ipswich. And then we get quick shots of like everybody, it's established that everybody now knows each other. Kate's kissing Pogue, Sarah's checking out Caleb. Reed, the punky of the group, ⁓ Reed, he attempts to flirt with Sarah, which I think is kind of a smart move on the writer's part considering what happens later. The snobby girl Kara tries to insert herself between Caleb and Sarah, but Caleb's not having it. Aaron comes over, he's the, like I said, there's so many characters. So much going on and basically a fight breaks out and is where we first see Reed, Reed's the blonde. He uses his, I don't know you would call it, ⁓ his warlock abilities, eyes turn golden and then pure black and he makes one the guys behind Aaron ⁓ puke on him, right? Roger: So much going on. So much going on. Bret: And so this like basically causes a fight is almost breaking out. And then I think the DJ or whoever yells over the speakers that cops are on the way. So everyone scatters. Yeah, it's a lot. Roger: lot is happening really fast. I mean, I just want to acknowledge like the sons of Ipswich in general, that's rather dramatic for a bunch of high schoolers. these are high school boys and they're known as the sons of Ipswich. And I'd be like, fuck off. I'm not calling anybody the sons of anything, the sons of Ipswich. You can go fuck yourself with that nonsense, but yeah, okay. Very gang, very dramatic. so like, you know, there's four central guys in, Bret: You're a game. Roger: this coven, whatever the fuck it is. You got Caleb, who's the lead with his puffy full lips. Be- ⁓ those lips. ⁓ like, nibble on those lips. You've got Pogue, Tyler Kitsch, who's always without sleeves. And then you have- Yeah, yeah. He's like the secondary of the group. And then you have Reed, who like serves a- Bret: ⁓ my God, those flips. ⁓ Woo! Basically Caleb's right-hand man like yeah Roger: purpose up to a certain point and then I feel his storyline that they were developing is completely just tossed aside. I feel like the second half of the movie reads character development, just hits a wall, which is a bummer because it's a very interesting angle. And then you've got fucking Tyler who does nothing. Tyler ⁓ doesn't anything the whole film. Bret: I have the... Hear me spell. ⁓ Yeah, there's not a lot to say about this guy. He was in Gossip Girl. but they don't give him really anything to do this. I was just talking about the ⁓ two jerky they could have been cut, but I feel like if you literally remove Tyler from the plot, I don't think anything would have changed. Roger: He literally doesn't have a single moment where he does something or comes up with an idea or interjects in any way that is at all impactful on the plot. He's always just a follower in the pack. I think it's because they they had have overall five to make the lore kind of make sense and feel like rooted in actual mythology. ⁓ But he's wasted. Exactly. Yeah. So it's a very wasted character. Bret: They need four descendants of the four families. Yeah, yep. Roger: And also, let's talk about the magic. So when their eyes glow gold, they're, they're utilizing their powers. There is a power that exists here. It's very vague. ⁓ It's spelled in caps. you know, it's important, but they've got the power and the power is very seductive. ⁓ And apparently when they utilize their eyes go gold, but when they, when it starts to go black, correct me I'm wrong, they're abusing it they can become addicted to it. Is that right? Bret: Yeah, yeah, later on, Caleb's mother kind of fills, us in on there's there's an addiction metaphor in this movie. ⁓ And yeah, the more you use the power, it it wears you down over time, it will like rapidly age you, you basically shouldn't be using your powers ever. And they already established that read. ⁓ Roger: Mm-hmm. Bret: He uses the power once to go off the cliff, he uses the power to make the guy puke on somebody else, and then Sarah, her car, when everybody's scarpering away at the party, Sarah's car won't start, so he uses, so in five minutes he's already used the power like three times. ⁓ Roger: He's abusing it. And they're all kind of aware of it. it is a point of dialogue through the first half of the film that Reed is the member their group who is definitely taking advantage of the power to a point where the other members are uncomfortable with it. And I do think that's the coolest angle from within the group overall. But it really feels like that they're developing Reed by making these choices, you're saying, to be a villain. And maybe they wanted to red herring us distract us. But overall, it still feels they just use his character up until the point that it was no longer of value to them. And then they were like, OK, and now we could just toss his character aside. And there's nothing else to him at all. ⁓ I like, as I see this character at the end of the movie, it's not like he comes in and saves the day or does something empowering. He's still kind of problematic. Bret: I figured that was good. Yeah. Roger: And so I'm I just don't know how I feel about Reed. ⁓ I feel like if they did a sequel to this, Reed would still have the potential to be a villain, you know? Bret: Yeah, they and you mentioned halfway through the movie. It's literally smack dab halfway through the movie. They decide to ⁓ drop red herring and focus on another character. but yeah, no read is super important the first half of the movie and let yeah, like you said, he's he almost fades away a little bit almost like Tyler where they both kind of just ⁓ help out with but they don't really. Yeah, they're not really important to the story anymore. ⁓ Roger: So the cops are approaching and the crowd is like taking off into the woods. You mentioned he, you know, he uses the power to jump Sarah's car and it all leads into this big moment, this big cop chase sequence, which I would say you know, this is meant to be the wow factor scene. you're, you're opening and they're trying to open with a bang. And honestly, the scene for the most part is actually pretty well constructed. it's very CGI heavy. ⁓ These cars are driving through mist. All of a sudden they're coming up on a cliff and the cops are like, ⁓ they're gonna go over the edge of the cliff. And yeah, they do. They have those heavy accents. And then the car does it, goes over the cliff. ⁓ cops are like, ⁓ my God, we just killed two kids. And run over to the cliff and the car ⁓ drops down them. And like, is it hokey? Is it cheesy? ⁓ Bret: We're gonna go over. They have that Massachusetts accent. Roger: Does it feel like something from a CW show? It does. ⁓ Yeah, the Harry Potter line, very of the era. ⁓ like, there's something charming about it. I'm not into the scene thinking ⁓ I'm about to watch a horror movie. I'm like, ⁓ okay. This is horror light, but at least they're having some fun with it. I actually like found myself kind of Bret: you Roger: into this opening. I don't know. There's something charming about it, but it is cheesy as fuck. Bret: you might hear me mention the lost boys like a dozen times, but it literally there's a mo ⁓ in lost boys. There's a motorcycle race between David and Michael ⁓ and Michael leads David off a cliff and David stops his bike just in time. And, and, and there's a lighthouse. it's, literally like, like I said, put these two movies side by side. There's like two or three different scenes, probably four that I'm like, they had to have. This is an homage to the Lost Boys. Roger: I think that had to be part of the game plan with this. I feel like it has the DNA of a lot of these films that we've mentioned. You like you mentioned the craft, this is very much an attempt at the craft, but with boys, but still for girls. it feels like, ⁓ very much like done from a feminine perspective, which is weird because again, the director, the writer and the focal cast are all males. So it's ⁓ that it came out feeling so girl coded, you know? But it is. And even these big moments you know, there's some startles and stuff, but there's really there's no blood in this. There's no gore. You get some cheesy fucking digital effects of guys with their faces kind of melting. like, other than that, ⁓ I wouldn't be to categorize this as a full on like horror movie, you know? Bret: No, no, there's like, there's some body, like veers into body horror later with the spiders. There, so there are parts that get all like, one part almost reminded me of Invisible Man when when she's being stalked in the shower, we'll get to that. But there are there are moments like when she's wandering in the corridors, the corridors are all dark, it's a very creepy Academy at night. ⁓ Roger: Yeah. It is, it is. And I love that aesthetic. I'll say that like there are scenes where that really works for it. You're mentioning the digital spiders. And I just want to say you know, I will slam on some of the digital effects in this film, ⁓ we have seen digital spiders attempted. We have seen digital ants attempted. And I got to say ⁓ it's digital, but truly this digital spiders that we see in this film are among some of the best, you know, very simple, they're always bathed in shadow. Bret: It's like they're very understated in simple design. Yeah. Roger: But think of the ants in Green Inferno, or think of urban legend, Bloody Mary, ⁓ some the worst spiders that I've ever seen, ⁓ digital ⁓ This like said, it's really simple, it's really clean, and there are times where there's a lot of them, and they surprisingly pull it off. So I do want to give them some credit, because this moment here when ⁓ Sebastian Stan, Chase pulls the spider off of Kate's shoulder, Bret: Hehehehe Roger: It's significant. There's some importance with that. And I like that they bring that back in. Bret: I agree. was like trying to think ⁓ later in the film when you learn certain things I'm like was there ever a point earlier in the movie where they they hint about I don't want to give it away but like ⁓ there ⁓ there ever a point where they kind of kind of hint about ⁓ is doing certain things and yeah, I guess they do. I guess there is there's ⁓ one where and you mentioned it ⁓ Roger: Caleb gets home and he finds his mother and she's drunk on the couch. And this is another character who is only there when really when you need her, but I'm intrigued. I want to know more about this broad. ⁓ just, this, this gal just laying here. She's a lush, she's wasted on the couch. And I'm like, tell me more. And then she's gone for the whole fucking film until she has to come back in at the ending and she's a completely different character. I was like, no, I want this woman boozy and I want her wasted all the time. And I want to know more about it. Bret: This game. You Roger: But yeah, so you find out through this dialogue that Caleb is gonna be turning 18 this week. Thank God, because he's very much portrayed in a way that you're meant to lust for him. But he's turning 18 and they all, yeah, they look like 35 year old men. They look great, but I don't buy that any of them are turning 18. But so she gives us like big exasperated monologue about lure of the boys powers ⁓ surface at 13 and it will take full form. Bret: They're all like dirty. Yeah. Roger: when they ascend. And you keep hearing about ascending, ascending, ascending. And I still really, like to this day, after watching this film multiple times, I can't tell you what the fuck it really is. Like what the ascension or the ascending, what it consist of? ⁓ Bret: Is it like their version of puberty? Like it's you fully, she describes, I mean, she's drunk. She's like, and I love the exposition. She's like, those powers that you and your friends developed when you were 13, like giving us that kind of background. so, she's, I do wish we got more of her. She's a great actress. She was in the, I think she was in, I can't remember what else she was. She was in the Santa Claus trilogy. Roger: Feed it to a sister. Bret: with Tim Allen. the mother in that. she, yeah, yeah. So she basically emphasizes that once they turn 18, their powers be like a thousand times stronger than what they are currently. yeah, no, she that something has happened to Caleb's father and Roger: What? Wow. Bret: we just, at this point, we just have to assume that he died. Caleb's mother ultimately fears that ⁓ if uses, and they use term uses a lot in this movie. So when are you using? when you're using, and that's the whole kind of drug analogy, right? if you, she's afraid that if he uses too much, he's going to end up like his father. So ⁓ we have to assume his father aged and died. That's all we know at this point about the dad. Roger: Yeah, they're very vague. But another thing I would like want to note about the dialogue, and this is definitely one of the flaws, is like every line out of a character's mouth in this film feels like exposition. Like, I don't feel like anyone's having just normal dialogue. Everything here feels like it's trying to decipher this very convoluted lore or the history explaining things, setting things up, like... none of it feels natural. Like you said, her whole monologue here, it is just ⁓ ⁓ exposition. ⁓ it does feel very forced. And that never lets up. And I think that's that's something to say about just how confusing, truly mind boggling Rick really the storyline is. there's still a lot of things just don't understand about it. And I'm just like, okay, ⁓ I'm just going to with it. I wouldn't say that this is A strong script, per se. Bret: The part that confused me the most was later on when they meet in their secret lair. We'll get to it, but yeah, they go into a lot of ⁓ historical detail that I'm like, I don't care about this. ⁓ Roger: Develop your characters. develop your characters. Give me a subplot. I don't know. Give me something. Yeah, it's strange. It's real weird. Bret: And you mentioned already that I we both did that I feel like some of this can almost be forgiven just because visually it's just fun. had fun watching this. It's a fun movie. Roger: Yes. Don't go in thinking you're needing to put your thinking caps on. this is simple, simple, like third grade level understanding maximum needed for this. ⁓ I appreciate that. I didn't have to work my brain over time. And even this next scene, with Kate, it's same thing. Kate and Sarah are talking and they're just talking about the ⁓ descendants of Ipswich. ⁓ Bret: It's it. Roger: be in descendants of witches from hundreds of years prior and suggesting Sarah should consider dating Caleb. And then when Sarah questions the fifth member of the coven, because of course she does, Kate says that the bloodline was rumored to have been killed off during the Salem witch trials. So it's very set up, there is a fifth member of the group that would complete this group, but they are not aware of this person existing at this point. So you're very much setting the groundwork of what's to come here, but it's all very just basic dialogue to get to the point and nothing more. it feels very unnatural. Bret: I do like that everybody kind of know somewhat that there's a history with these boys and their ancestors. so they know that much. They don't know anything about the magic. They think that the magic was just a, I think Kate even says later, ⁓ yeah, that's all, Pogue told me that's all bullshit, ⁓ so, yeah, everybody knows kind of like the historical context of what's going on. Kate, I feel like this isn't what the average college girl will be wearing to sleep. She's wearing like a see-through nightie with like a white broad matching panties. so my quick observation is that like while the gaze is often on the males, I feel like the girls sometimes also get their moments. ⁓ in this movie is like, we have a hot cast. Let's just show everybody. let's just show them off. Roger: Yes, but they don't ever veer into nudity territory with the females. that's what I mean, not to jump ahead, but they definitely shift the focus to the male cast. And that is something that like, all right, bring it on. Sarah sexualized a little bit here, including that great shower scene coming up, but it's so tastefully done and so well shot. I'm, I think it's artistic if anything. It doesn't feel exploitive. She's sexy, but they, never feel like they exploit any of the females in this film. Bret: I don't. No. We get fast. Do you think her tattoos were intentional? Like she has like a tramp stamp. She also has a tattoo on her back. And I didn't know if that was like a subtle way to show that she's she's fun. Roger: Yeah. I thought she was going to be like tied in to the lower of all of it. Like I was like, that's a very witchy looking, I don't know, Celtic tattoo. Sarah plain and tall or whatever. you know, something I was like, you know, it's just the name Sarah sounds like an olden name. So I was expecting her to get tied in, but no, she's just like the pretty blonde who's there to go along for the ride. And I like her. like, like. Bret: ⁓ yeah, she's secretly a... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah She's a fun human, yep. Roger: both the female characters. I think they both do a fine job, though Kate is a bit underdeveloped. She is another character that once they no longer need her, she also kind of very much fades to the background, but at least there's an important thing that happens to her, but we'll get to that in a little bit. Back. Bret: I think she is kind of stronger in the first half, whereas the second half she does become, she defaults to like the damsel. Roger: She does. Like, she does. What happens is kind of cool, because again, it ties everything together, but it does feel like either like, ⁓ okay, well, this character is just not important anymore. So like, we don't need any closure. There's no closure. We'll get to that. Back at the cliffs, the cops are trying to explain like exactly what happened with the car going off the cliff. they get notified that there's a car that's been found. Bret: you Roger: And with somebody pass out inside. So the attention goes to that and they to the vehicle and they have to break in the windshield. And when do that, they find the corpse of a ginger man with milk, white eyes, dead in the front seat. And I will say if there was something they would have maybe given a little more attention to, it would have been the setup to this and ⁓ really what all of means. Cause guy He plays an important role to a certain extent. he does come up multiple times again, but I don't who the fuck he is or what's going on. I just, I think that they could have given us ⁓ more of a of what happened to him to really explain this better and probably cut out some of the ongoing dialogue about the same shit that we keep hearing over and over. ⁓ I would have to have seen this because like we don't get any introduction of this guy, right? he's not at the party at all, is he? Bret: No, no, do get an explanation way later in the movie that he was driving to the party, he was driving somebody to the party, but I feel like they could have showed that as the, an opening scene. We wouldn't need to, necessarily know who's in the backseat, but it could have been, like, a shadowy figure or a person who's gonna kill this guy. they could have, yeah, they probably could have shown it, or given us something. Yeah. Roger: yeah. They could have absolutely shown it. It feels almost sloppy that they didn't give us some kind of setup or at least introduce the character to just be like random guy dead in a seat and he keeps coming back up. do not have any connection to this character at all. It almost feels like we missed a plot point to be honest. Bret: Yeah, it's, I get it, we need to like raise the stakes by having a dead student from the party and like, it's funny, this is the second movie in a row, because I think ⁓ Candy Stripers also had like foggy eyes, but I mean, that was different though, because the character was ⁓ blind. But would the student's eyes be foggy like that? Or like, I don't really know the rules about death. ⁓ Roger: Yeah. think that's to imply something magical happened to him. mean, you know, again, I think that would have made a lot of sense to have shown this. I mean, even if this is horror light, it's still supposed to get a reaction out of you. And to not take advantage of this setup, I think is a really a missed opportunity. I was almost expecting honestly, Brett, I was thinking that this is going to be an ongoing trend that other students would start turning up dead and they would all serve the kind of same purpose that we learn. Bret: Okay, I guess, yeah. Yeah. Roger: you know, that this guy ends up coming back. You basically see apparitions of him. But I was like, ⁓ like, this is going to raise the stakes. people are going to start dying across this campus. That's not the case. This guy just dies. And you see him in some visions, but really, it's... ⁓ Well, I know don't... He doesn't have a huge impact on anything. It seems kind of like it doesn't have a major purpose. I wish they would have done more with this because it's a cool angle, but it's really undercooked. Bret: We only ever know him as dead. Roger: Next bit here is shower scene we've been talking about, this bit with Sarah, showing off her ⁓ hallow man. She's showing off her tattoos. ⁓ really thought those were going to be symbolic of something because they're prominent. they really make it a point to show both of them. But yeah, mean, the scene is very tastefully shot and I actually think it's really beautiful. think anything that's filmed in this really cool dorm setup is striking and it's Bret: Very Halloween movement coming up. Yeah. Roger: way nicer than any dorm I've ever fucking seen. they've got marble tile. ⁓ Bret: tinted dorms themselves have those tinted windows I'm like I'd be I would almost be scared to have a room like that where you see somebody's hand I mean I don't know but ⁓ yeah no this whole ⁓ and the the girl has that this whole movie has that blue tone so it's like smoky and blue and misty and Roger: Frosted glass showers in like a girl's dorm. Like no, you've got like gross stalls with curtains. These girls are showered behind frosted glass. Like it just seems very ironic for a campus. Bret: Well, this is apparently a very prestigious school. think that girl, Kara, that bully girl or whatever she mentions at the beginning, that like, she even asked Sarah, what'd do to get here? you're from, ew, you're from a public school. ⁓ And like, so this is supposed to be a wealthy, it's hard to into Academy, I guess. Roger: Yeah, yeah. It's like Hogwarts, but ⁓ ⁓ less it's Hogwarts light. it's they do show the interiors of the school a couple of times and it's very clear they're leaning into that aesthetic a bit, but like, ⁓ yeah, like in the real world, is what that would feel like if it wasn't a flight of fancy. So yeah, but yeah, I mean, all of this is really well shot. She's got this whole bit here where she, you know, she finds a broken bulb. Bret: For, yeah. Starc, Academia, yeah, they're trying to... Roger: And there's this eerie misty presence floating around her. And this is another effect that I have seen this done way worse. ⁓ they pull this of mist entity off actually pretty well. ⁓ And I think in a of kind of building suspense overall, this whole shower sequence and the whole lead up and reveal to what's going on is actually probably one of the more effective bits in the film. It's really cool. I wish we saw more of this misty entity. And they just pace it really well. And the whole reveal with it being read is also really saying the groundwork for like, again, thinking this guy's a fucking creep. What is he doing here? Prowling over here. I think there's a lot of storyline that they could have chewed on more with this later on in the film. But this whole sequence I actually thought was rather competent and really well constructed. What do you think? Bret: It is very horror adjacent. it's, yeah, no, there's a moment where she ⁓ the bathroom stalls and kneels down, kind like a scream moment or a scream three moment where she's wondering, you know, we're wondering our feet are gonna step down from the toilets, nothing. And then she notices that one of the lights has crashed to the floor. ⁓ And not sure why she goes to pick up the glass, but she's examining it, like it's gonna give her clues. ⁓ And then, but I think it's more so that they can have that moment coming up where, yeah, you were saying, behind her through the steam, there's this like transparent misty figure. ⁓ there's just enough for us to see an outline. We don't know who it is. The figure touches her back and she jumps, which is a very valid reaction. ⁓ And yes, she rushes back to the dorms. And like you said, that's when she runs into Reed. Roger: And I have a note here, a very moist Sarah is startled by Reed. she unleashes quite a scream. And that's another thing is this film becomes way of almost like, I don't want to say an action film, but there's a lot of battling and everything. And I was like, at this point, I was still in a horror mentality and this girl unleashes the scream. was like, yeah, bitch can scream. I was like, good. And I don't think she ever screams again in the film. So that's like a waste, but like, Bret: Hahaha Roger: At least you've got this kind of cool moment setting up here where it very much is painting Reed to be an antagonistic figure. And if that was their goal, at least this moment does a really good job of just making him feel creepy. He's doing that kind of weird thing with his fingers. He just plays it really well. And yeah, so I don't know. I really enjoyed this moment. It's just such an underutilized subplot once you get to a certain point. You're really thinking that they're gonna do something with all of this with Reed. and then they kind of just drop the ball and it's a bummer. Cause I think that he would have been really good taking on even more of a, again, an antagonistic role in this film, you know? Bret: I don't think I like, she is very trusting. I don't know if I would have followed him to the bathrooms again, but he goes with him and he doesn't even look for like a half a second. He's like, yeah, I don't see anyone. Roger: Well, he's a fucking, he's a ⁓ warlock or a witch or whatever the fuck he is. If anyone should be like, believe you, it should be this guy. You know, like fuck off, Reed. You're an asshole. Bret: I guess, yeah, right. He is very, of the ⁓ Ipswich boys, they him out to be the most cocky, competitive. He's always, ⁓ yeah, no, and Caleb are always butting heads. Yeah, but I mean, he, yeah, so he helps Sarah and then he just disappears again. Roger: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I really think that his character would have been for a moment at the end of the film where he stepped in and did something, almost like sacrificed himself. if you're gonna develop this kind of an angle at the first half of this film, give it a payoff, you know? Or if he would have stepped in and like saved Caleb's life, something like that. it would have made it all feel really satisfying. So it's disappointing they don't do something with it, because there was the potential to do something really cool. We've got this moment now. So we've got Caleb driving his little fucking hot rod ⁓ he's ⁓ the phone and he's just confirming his suspicions about Reed. We get more nonsense about him fucking ascending, whatever the fuck that is, and abusing powers out of spite. And this comes up to probably one of the moments I remember more than any from the promotional material. Bret: Mm-hmm. Roger: where we're treated like this very over the top vision of the ginger, the dead ginger, whom is still unnamed, I believe. Maybe they named him, I can't recall. Caleb just looks over and the ginger's there and you're like, whoa, ginger. And then he does that whole thing where his like face turns to wax. And I'm like, what? ⁓ And then he like disappears ⁓ a swirl of early ⁓ digital effects. And it's... It's shocking, like not in a good way. It's like, the fuck, what just happened? ⁓ not only that, but then you're treated to that goddamn moment of final destination too. That's exactly the note I have here. Clearly they saw log trucks work for us. But like, the collides with that fucking log truck, that poor man driving that log truck who has no idea what's going on, has no idea what ascending means. And the car just magically like... Bret: Get some Final Destination shit coming up. I mean, in each year, it's working. Yeah. disassembly Roger: It erupts, it disassembles, it's a perfect word, disassembles into a million tiny pieces and I'm pretty sure that Caleb turns into a ball of light and then the car reassembles after the truck has passed and it's just baffling. It's very confusing and I am so thrown off by the scene but I remember it so clearly from the early promotional material and that, I really think that is the vibe that they were pushing for this film but I think this Bret: He's completely scared of anything. Roger: this scene feels out of nowhere. I don't think they ever do anything in this movie that feels remotely like this scale of power again. Do you know what I mean? Bret: So I do see where it could be because it's showing once again that we get another instance where, so very gradually, I feel like Caleb starts to use magic more and more. And this is a case where either by reflex or he had no choice. That was his magic. He had to use magic to do that, right? There is magic where at the beginning, everybody jumps off the cliff, he has to use magic to go with them. It's kind of like peer pressure, right? And then when the car goes off during the cop chase, his friends are egging him on like, come on, Caleb, we need all four of us to make this work. And so once again, Caleb has to use magic. And so now this is the third time where we get another instance where Caleb is forced to use. So I think maybe that's why they had the scene, perhaps. I don't know. Roger: I also think that they're trying to imply you know, Caleb is getting really close to his ascending. And I think like his power is in from, from my his power is getting stronger because he seems overwhelmed. it almost seems like, yes, it's his reflex, but he's like, ⁓ my God, I didn't know I could do that. But I think herein lies the problem. Bret: everywhere. Roger: For me, for this to really, I think, feel maximum impact over the progression of the story, was really hoping to see his power build and build and build. And then finally, at the end of the film, you see it hit its maximum potential. Bret: I have like this Dragon Ball Z moment. Roger: ⁓ my, this is Kamehameha nonsense all over the place for the end of this movie. And that's my issue is like this shtick, this whole car Lego eruption and then building itself back together again, really mean, you never see anything even remotely close to as impressive as the scale of power he has on display here. So when he does finally ascend, know, listeners, I'm sorry to ruin it for you, but ascending apparently happens. Bret: What? Roger: I really can't even tell. don't even know. There doesn't seem to be a difference between him now and him ascended. don't understand ⁓ If he gets an upgrade in powers, I don't fucking see it. We'll get to that. But this just seems so much bigger than anything else he pulls off over the course of the movie. And it kind of, I guess again, it lowers the stakes overall. It makes it feel kind of like there's not really any major payoff when everything can... Bret: Yeah, we don't. Roger: Do you get what I'm saying? Bret: It, yeah, the, I think the finale parts of it were pretty lackluster. And yeah, you wonder like, we don't really get to see a moment where he uses his powers to us. ⁓ he's ascending, we don't see a moment where, we'll get to it. I'm trying to jog my memory. ⁓ Roger: Yeah, you don't see a moment where you're like, ⁓ I'm seeing him now in what is an upgraded form. It all feels just very kind of consistently he has the power. He always has the power. He's utilizing it and it never goes to 2.0 mode, you know? So I don't know, but I do appreciate the angle because they keep, they talked about it a lot at this point. I do like the idea of the magic being like a drug. I think that is like a cool concept that they play with here. the more that you use it, the more addicted it becomes, to the fact that you even see when their eyes go black. It's a cool angle. And that's one thing I like. They kind of took a liberty here with the lore, with ⁓ background of their witchcraft, of their abilities. And they make it clear, they try not to use it often, not only because they want to, dare I say, blend in, but also it's just something that shouldn't be abused. And so I appreciate that. that approach that they took, that kind of respect that they have for it, and the fact that Reed is abusing it, they look down on it. So I think it's a cool aspect here. But yeah, I mean, this whole log truck scene, like the poor guy driving the fucking log truck, looking back like panting, like, ⁓ afterwards, like he's, that man, the trauma that man is gonna carry with him, he's gonna be like fucking Jamie Lee Curtis in the Halloween 2018 reboot. Trauma, trauma, trauma, after seeing that poor kid erupt. ⁓ Bret: We think we've found it. I'm found it. Gob smacked. Yeah. you I'm out. Roger: ⁓ my goodness. Bret: So they don't I have a note that they don't really elaborate on what a darkling is. So that thing that so you yeah, exactly. Roger: You've touched on a very raw nerve with me. Bret: They, so that thing in the seat that was next to him, that, you know, that ⁓ the of the dead kid looking at him from what Pogue says, so Caleb and Pogue are talking on the phone and ⁓ Caleb them in. He's like, I just saw a darkling. And from what I'm guessing, it's almost kind of like an evil telegram, a, a, I have in my notes, like a flashbang grenade of a, it's almost like a threat, a quick, ⁓ it could be a dead person, monster. don't know. ⁓ It's just a quick, like this thing hurt him? ⁓ Is just ⁓ a ⁓ Roger: feel like it's like, you know, you said almost like a threat. I think it's a foreboding warning of what's to come. you know, obviously that this individual was killed and I feel like his soul is almost like being puppeted to inform Caleb of like, what is coming, this ominous force that is approaching him and his coven. And so I think it's a cool concept, but like, oh boy, do I have issues with how this is handled. I don't know what the fuck a Darkling is. Don't just talk to me about a fucking Darkling. And I think I'm gonna be like, okay, like at first I thought they were saying darling. And I was like, well, that's pleasant, but it doesn't feel like the right tone for this film. But no, it's a Darkling. And a Darkling Bret: It's just a darkling. Roger: I don't have a book of Witchcraft and Lohr to open up and, ⁓ like, you fucking tell me what a Darkling is. ⁓ And comes back a couple more times, but again, it's just this idea that's thrown out there that never like, finalizes or, you know, builds up to anything. Like I was saying, if they would have killed multiple kids over the course of the film and used them to ⁓ foreshadow different things were gonna happen, like they could have really played with this. Bret: Yeah, let's pull out the fucking Book of Shadows and take a Roger: but there's just this one ginger darkling with a melting face and you keep seeing him and the effect is not the best effect in the film. So yeah, it just, feels like they do it because they're like, we got to do something cool here. We got to do something with CGI here. It doesn't feel very like fully baked. it doesn't feel like an idea ⁓ really even understood what they were talking about. I feel like they said Darkling because they thought it sounded cool and they needed something there, ⁓ but don't even feel like they understand ⁓ the lore I don't feel like the writers of this fully have a grasp of the story that they're trying to tell, you know? Bret: Like we just need something like briefly scary or unsettling or don't know. ⁓ mean at least sparkling. Yeah. And they gave, I guess they gave ⁓ Ginger actor, whoever he is, more to do, I guess. They brought him back a couple times. It's fun. ⁓ Roger: And we'll call it a Darkling, like yeah. I mean, does a poor guy have a name? I mean, I think they mentioned his name at some point, but like in half the time he's covered in that bad, like wax CGI dripping effect that really you don't even see his face. I don't know. I mean, I wish that they would have had more connection with this character, you know? Bret: It would have been, like you said, would have been good to get like one scene with him alive, to like, so we get to know him a little bit, but. ⁓ Roger: Yeah, yeah. Also, I acknowledge that everybody apparently hangs out at the drugstore. You notice how there's like seven people here? Like, hey, what's up? Just getting my medicine. How about you? ⁓ I'm just here. everyone's at the fucking drugstore in this small Salem, Massachusetts town. Bret: you Everybody's running errands at the drug store at the same time, apparently. Yeah, I said we, assuming, yeah, it's like a pharmacy, right? It's like we cut to the pharmacy or the convenience store and we have Sarah, Kate and Chase. So Sarah and Kate and Chase, made plans the previous night. They're like, we're going to the, we're going to run errands in the morning. Do you want to come with us? So they're And then they see Caleb picking up a prescription for somebody and then he runs into them. And then we learn from Kate. Roger: Who would thought? ⁓ my goodness. Bret: that the dead kid lived on Reed and Tyler's floor, which I think is a good detail for her to, for them to, you know, paints the whole red herring thing even more like, ⁓ he lived on Reed's floor, ooh. The gang splits up, so Kate and Chase go to see ⁓ a movie, and then that leaves Caleb and Sarah alone since the party. So then ⁓ get a montage of them like on the road, driving through a scenic forest and. It's like the only light carefree moment in the movie. They drive past a place that will become important later. It's called the Old Putnam Barn. And ⁓ it's apparently a place where the old Ipswich colony gathered. It's supposed to be on their land. Then once again, very trusting. This is like the third guy where, it's like he drives her in very dark woods and they stop in the middle of nowhere in front of a creepy house. ⁓ So when I say third guy, we have earlier the movie, like at the beginning, we have Sarah giving Chase, this random guy a ride home, back to academy. And then we have her following Reed to the bathroom. And then we have her hair in the dark woods with this guy. I don't know, she's... Yeah. Roger: Let alone where he's fucking taking her. if I were her, I'd be like, get me the fuck out of here. This ⁓ ominous house from like 300 years ago that's dilapidated and guys are firing guns out windows. You know, ⁓ I would be get me out of here. And like who, also from Caleb's angle, who takes a girl that they have just met to their, their aged family ancestral home and It just seems like a very, like it seems like something you don't do until like, I don't know, the 10th date. This just seems very out of nowhere to just bring her there. Bret: I mean, he does say later, you're the first girl that I ever took there. Roger: That's not enough. I need more explanation why you think it's appropriate to bring her here. I just, I, you know, ⁓ will say you know, Massachusetts, again, beautiful. I like seeing the scenery. I do feel like at this point, this film is kind of a sequel to the Crucible because everybody is goody, goody strong. you know, ⁓ these goody pope, all these people I are characters in the Crucible. Bret: Goody Pope or Roger: And someone who's just like, you know, I'm just going to take the names from this and I'm going to use them and they're just going to apply here. But though maybe perhaps those are actually historically accurate names. I'm sure they are. But I just, feels very much None of this feels at all fully thought out. And when they do throw certain things out there, they're like, oh, we're throwing out all these things that people are going to recognize that sounds very which adjacent, you know, it just feels like very simple. Yeah. Bret: Goodie is a very, yeah, Goodie is a very witch trials sounding name. ⁓ Yeah, so he, yeah, Caleb explains that it's his family's first colony house. And once again, I was like, if I was Sarah, would be like, why are we here? ⁓ Roger: Yeah. Why are you bringing me here? Bret: Yeah, yeah, she is smart. She ducks when she hears a gunshot. She's like, ⁓ shit, what the hell is happening? Caleb's like, don't shoot, don't shoot. And he explains that it's their caretaker Gorman. And like the perfect caretaker name. ⁓ yes, Gorman, he's... ⁓ Roger: Who the fuck is Gorman? Also, like, I thought I'd get more backstory on this guy. And you don't learn anything about this guy. Bret: Nope. He like two lines. Maybe. He's Norman. Just like the darkling, who are we to question this lore? Roger: I mean, who is he? What, does he know they're witches? I just... A viewer of the film who wants answers. Like if you're gonna introduce fucking Gorman in his shotgun, then at least give me a little more idea why the guy's here. Not explored at all. Bret: you Yeah, is he like indebted to the family? he... Roger: Right, is he like almost like a, like what's the name of vampire, like a vampire has like a. Bret: familiar. I'm probably a daylight servant or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Roger: Right, like they made that whole goddamn movie about it with Nick Cage. You know, like I thought, like yeah, is he like you said indebted to them? Like why is he here? Is he a member of the family? Very loose, not explored. And then you see that man's pickled hand. You see like a very elderly, moist hand. It looks very pickled. Yeah, and you're like, this is mysterious. And that's all you get. I mean, really they keep it loose. Bret: You So yeah, we don't know who's, so Caleb goes to drop off the prescription. We don't get any elaboration on, I'm assuming that the prescription he picked up at the pharmacy is for this, whoever's sitting in the chair. And at this point in the movie, we don't know who's in the chair. We just see like this wrinkled hand, this gnarled hand just like on the, resting on the armrest. And that's it. goes back to the car and he, She's like, so now what? he's like, let's go to it. So what's that place called? Let's go to Nicky's. Roger: Nickies. They're going to Nickies. The whole gang's there. And I can't understand, like, I mean, half these people are first of all under 21. So this is a place where guess anyone can hang out. But part of it feels like a rowdy bar. Part of it's a dance club. I mean, I thought there was gonna be a goddamn dance montage for a moment. But I mean, I mean, Bret: It looked fun. I mean, we do get a dance montage. get fricking dirty dancing Havana nights. Roger: I fucking love Havana nights. You're open to a can of worms saying that with a Maya cameo. ⁓ my goodness, sign me up. But yeah, there's that whole bit of that gal in that short skirt, hanging over the bar. And then Reed uses his powers to blow her skirt up. It's the only female nudity you get, but that poor girl not wearing panties, bare ass to the wind. Bret: But did- The line though, the line that Pogue says, I was like, ⁓ my god. He's like- Roger: Isn't he like, she's never wearing panties? Like, what does he say? Bret: boys that girl hasn't worn panties since she was 12. And I'm like, what? Who wrote this? Roger: Oh. Oh. Oh. That's uncomfortable. I mean, she ain't 12 now. She's roughly 34. I mean, and her ass looks great. I'm a gay man, but I get it. you got to show a little skin. But yeah, it feels very creepy, very molesty showing off that poor girl. Bret: For PG-13, for PG-13, we get a lot of bare asses in this movie. Roger: And the best is yet to come. ⁓ boy is the best yet to come. But yeah, so we got this whole bit here where we're at Nicky's and Sarah is like, let's show them what girls do or whatever the fuck she says. then she puts a quarter in and ⁓ love rock and roll. Like that comes on. And like, I felt like there was going to be a goddamn hoedown. She brings sexy ass Caleb and his wife beater onto the dance floor and she's right in like a whore. Bret: A bargain. their grind. Roger: Like a harlot, yeah, she's rolling, body rolling. I mean, it's a good time for a brief moment until that fucker Aaron shows up again. Bret: Aaron. I guess he does have a purpose. He causes chaos. I want to quickly say they do make an important moment with ⁓ Kate and Pogue and there's like friction between them. is very jealous that Kate's been hanging out with Chase, the new ⁓ So and Chase went to a movie together and she's like, yeah, Chase kept me company and Pogue's like, ⁓ I'll just bet he did. Roger: all he does. Bret: And so that whole, that immediately starts to throw off the whole vibe in the bar and yeah, no. And then we, yeah, we already went over, POG orders a drink at the bar, meets up with Reed and Tyler. They do that thing with the girl where I was like, ⁓ my God. then we do get a moment, we do get a moment right before the dance where we get Chase and Caleb finally having a moment together where they're talking ⁓ and Chase is asking about their friend group and Caleb tells them, know, our families were real close. We grew up together. We're kind of like brothers. And Chase says, ⁓ that must've been nice. then we get a little like foreshadowing that there's gonna be a whole swimming thing where, cause Poe comes over, joins the game and we learn that both Chase and Caleb have swimming in common. Chase prides himself in being like a champion winner at his school. And Poe tells them, ⁓ you won't be here. And so he's implying that Caleb's like the star swimmer of the Academy. yeah, a lot of stuff happens at bar that like, feel like sets up stuff for the movie, ⁓ the of the movie. You've got the fight between Kate and Pogue. You've got this mentioning about the swim team. There's escalation with Reed coming up. So like so much happens here. Roger: think the bar scene is pretty much entertaining beginning to end a lot fucking happens you're absolutely right and you did mention one thing I want to touch on is you know Kate saying like ⁓ like Chase is just my friend I just met him and we just went to a movie like fuck off let's girl talk for a moment that is unacceptable I mean immediately and if I was Pogue I'd be like fuck off bitch you're not hanging out with this beautiful man it's not like she's like here's my Bret: expressed interest in him immediately. Roger: a portly awkward friend who is not at all threatening, like no offense to anybody. I mean, well, I see this as a portly gentleman, let's be clear, but this is like Sebastian Stan and he is cute as a fucking button in this film. he is so handsome and yeah, everyone's fucking beautiful. And so you bring him over and you're gonna be fucking seeing movies with this dude, absolutely not. I'm putting him in his place, I'm putting you in your place. Bret: He's like... Of course ⁓ Everyone's an agent on the model in this. Yeah. Roger: Not again, says Taylor Kitsch. And so yeah, there's this tension that starts to develop, but they're playing, they're Chase very, very safe. Like there's a couple little lines, like you mentioned the brother line, a couple little things that in retrospect, you look back and you're like, ⁓ okay. I guess they kind of set the groundwork for what his character is going to become. But right now he's just likable and handsome and smiling and. Bret: Yeah, it's very subdued in the first half. Yeah. Roger: Yeah, like there's really not much more to him. He feels very secondary for now. Um, and this, does lead up to a big moment here where, you know, they go outside, a fight breaks out between Aaron and Reed that kind of breaks up the moment. And what happens with Reed here, I was really just digging where this was going. And again, I keep bringing up my frustrations because right now they are really establishing what appears to be a cool. layered between the group that's disrupting the group from inside. And I just, was like, there's so much they can do with this. ⁓ this whole big moment where you finally start to see Caleb put his on display. I just, I felt like this is you're finally starting to get a taste of what these fuckers can do and he's throwing him around, he throws Reed into that strategically placed pallet of beer bottles and it just seems so finally aggressive, like you're getting some aggression from Caleb and dominance, it's clear he's more powerful than the others, ⁓ but it just feels like ⁓ ⁓ back on it and how the film concludes, this really feels like a very wasted moment. ⁓ build to anything further. It doesn't go anywhere. And that's so disappointing because it's probably one of my favorite moments in the film is this whole moment between these two friends who are starting to really butt heads, you know? Bret: Yeah, this is another moment too, where I feel like is... Reed is kind of trying to get a rise out of Caleb. once again, Caleb has to use his powers. So ⁓ another case too where, yeah, so they're both using power against the power against each other. They're using the equivalent of Jedi Force, ⁓ but gayer, yeah. Roger: but Gare. Bret: The big bear who owns the bar, Nicky, he comes out with a bat. He's like, he's like, like, keep it out. Yeah. Roger: That's Nikki? You're telling me that's fucking Nikki? I guess that would be Nikki, big old bear. But I was like, Nikki? You're gonna name that guy Nikki? I don't know. Bret: That is Mickey! They eat in a dress, they're like, they're like, okay, Nikki, sorry. ⁓ Yeah, Caleb calls readout on being reckless and overusing. This is an ongoing thing in a lot of even in the show charms, we can't risk exposing ourselves. We can't use in public. We can't, like we have to hide. We have to stay small. We have to, you know. Roger: Yeah. Bret: And so yeah, there's a pissing contest where they're levitating objects and hurling them and Caleb, yeah, Caleb really starts to, ⁓ I said, very gradually he starts to really get juiced up by the power and the others have to ⁓ him back. ⁓ yeah, I think this is a good moment because it shows that he's not as restrained as we think. Early in the movie, we saw him use his powers multiple times. I was mentioning this mainly. from pressure by the others, but here he's starting to really, like you were saying, show what he's capable of and he's slowly getting consumed by it. Roger: Yeah, you've been mentioning the Lost Boys parallels, which very much exist, but when it comes to the actual powers themselves, it is charmed all over the place, especially once they start blasting these ⁓ clear, like, I know, sonic booms. I don't fucking what they are, but it looks ⁓ so, yeah. It's manifested energy something, but it looks so charmed. So Bret: It's like a transparent ball. Roger: The storyline very much has that Lost Boys DNA, but everything to do with the actual magic itself, down to like the book and everything, does feel very much like a male version of Charm. Bret: They have their own book of shadows, basically. Yeah. Roger: Yeah, it's dead on like the same thing and it down to the powers. They're just, instead of getting TV level graphics for the time, you're getting slightly elevated graphics. But this whole bit of them throwing the objects around and everything, it almost kind of feels like something you would get from one of the early X-Men films. ⁓ you when they're the beer kegs and throwing them at each other, it looks good. It looks a bit dated, but it's still the CGI is pretty solid, but it's... The fight sequences here are significantly less horror, much more like fantastical, again, comic book superhero kind of battles that we're seeing. You know, Caleb and Sarah, they share a moment with the car and it does lead to a kiss. It's like that big dramatic moment with like the rain pouring down around them. ⁓ ⁓ when two actors are opposite each other, I would definitely say there's probably the stronger scenes in the film. their chemistry again is really pretty palpable and yeah, they're just not bad. in these normal scenes and these little dialogue moments, It really is some of the best chemistry overall between the cast. And like it's just a very pretty moment. once again, you get you get Caleb talking about fucking ascending and all this goddamn nancence. And it's hard to take it seriously because at this point they keep talking about it, but tell me what it is. tell me what ascending is. And I don't think they ever fully explain it, do they? you couldn't give me a explanation of what ascending is, you? Bret: So all day, I feel like most of it we learn from the mom and I feel like all we know is that that is when your powers grow or like other than the whole power growth, that what ascending is? You just get more. Roger: But let me ask you, something very key happens in order for Caleb to properly ascend later. And it's a specific development, but it kind of out of left field. And I don't know if that's even required. I don't know. We'll get to it later. ⁓ more things are going to happen leading to the inevitable ascension of Caleb. But I'm just making it clear, we're already pretty much halfway into the film, and I still don't know what the fuck we're talking about here. So whatever. We get this whole moment, there's another digital spider crawling across a sleeping Sarah, and it causes her to wake up. like crawls all across her, looks really good, crawls ⁓ her shoulder ⁓ disappears into her hair. And this moment, let me tell you, if there's a scene in this film that makes me shit myself, it is this scene because I fucking hate spiders and I hate... ⁓ goes like behind her hair. Bret: Doesn't it go in her ear? Roger: Cause then she looks across the bedroom and she sees the other one go up Kate's nose. Maybe it does go in her ear. You might be right with that. But one definitely goes into Kate's nose and starts burrowing out her fucking forehead. Jesus Christ. Bret: Okay. I mean, later. Yeah, a spider egg in her forehead explodes releasing hundreds of baby spiders. So this is a good, yes, it's chock full of CGI, but I appreciate a good body horror adjacent moment. And so I do like the whole spider going in Kate's nose. And yeah, ⁓ is a fun moment. Sarah gets a lot of good horror-esque moments. She gets the shower thing. She gets wandering halls. She gets spiders and nightmares. ⁓ Roger: Yeah. Mm. Bret: yeah, Sarah probably gets most of the, yeah, horror adjacent moments. Roger: She's very much like the damsel in distress. Sarah never does anything to fight, battle, defend herself, nothing. She's either screaming about something or she's in a trance. And this moment, like, is probably the, I would say, ⁓ closest to true horror that we get because, the reveal, when she pulls the blanket back and there's all those fucking digital spiders, ⁓ my ass clenched. And then she gets on the floor and they're everywhere and she's stepping on them. Bret: ⁓ Roger: and she scream it and you know they're biting her fucking supple feet. And then like the whole bit of it going up Kate's nose, like I know that's happened to me before. I just accept it, but I'm sure it has. I know spiders have entered my mouth at some point when I'm sleeping. You know what's happened. And like, just, they do a really good job. There's the shot. There's like a low angle shot of Sarah screaming and you see the spiders all over the ceiling. And yeah, they just, do a really good job with it. So yeah, I really enjoyed this moment. I thought for being again a CGI heavy sequence, they actually pulled it off. Bret: It's fun, yeah. Roger: Pogue calls Caleb. Listen, I got plenty of notes on it. Pogue calls Caleb and they're both just laying there. Not only are they fully shirtless, but they're moist. They're like sweating. They're both sweating in bed together. Not in the same bed, but yeah, they're just having a men's dialogue exchange. he's like, Pogue is like, yeah, he's like, I saw him. Bret: a shirtless brotherly phone exchange. two bros. Darn. Pet Sheskieving. Roger: I saw Darkling. And I'm like, well then why didn't you fucking show me? ⁓ is supposed to be kind of a horror movie. Why would you just avoid showing what could have been kind of an exciting sequence and just like skip ahead, just the ⁓ boring dialogue about with these two men. I mean, they look great laying in bed. ⁓ Bret: gonna say they just lied to they were like let's show let's give people what they want let's let's not show the other stuff and let's show this Roger: No. I mean, like, yes, do I want to see Caleb shirtless covered in sweat laying in nothing but a sheet? Absolutely. He looks phenomenal. He looks like straight out of an underwear catalog. But ⁓ my God. But I'm like, well, you know, you've already shown the darkling once. I need a more understanding of what the fuck's going on with it. this is just a prime example of this film choosing to ⁓ focus too heavy on telling. Bret: noise Roger: with all their dialogue as they explain everything over and over and not enough focus on like showing. Like this could have just been another good example of the Darkling work doing what it does and probably explained it to us better than them just talking about it. Cause when you're beating me over the head with these ideas of things like the ascending and everything, I would just rather you ⁓ give an example, show me a flashback of it happening. Give me some visual to go off of it. Then I can be like, ⁓ okay. I'm watching a movie so I now understand it because I've seen it versus the characters just beating it over my head and over in their dialogue, you know? Bret: And I think here they're both sweating too because there's a suggestion that they've been having night terr... Like they're slowly starting to sense that someone else is using. And ⁓ at least right now in the film, we're to ⁓ Reed of. ⁓ think ⁓ wondering it's Reed starting to say, something is going on. ⁓ they're like, I think this is the second time in a row where Kayla wakes up at like 2 a.m. or 1 a.m. or something like that, yeah. Roger: Yeah, I mean, I'm thankful to have visuals of sweaty hot men, but like, I don't know. I guess I'd rather see scary things instead. Sometimes, sometimes. And we also, get this bit of, they finally go into school and this is the moment that I was talking about feeling very Hogwarts. this is very much like Hogwarts light. ⁓ structured Hogwarts. It's the big curved classroom and they're all sitting in levels. and you've got the professor talking down at the chalkboard, but clearly they took inspiration from visuals they have seen from other films that have done similar things. Bret: And I have my notes that seems like ⁓ of the movies so far probably took place on Saturday and Sunday. So now we're on Monday at school. Everyone's in their prep school uniforms. Caleb is summoned to Provost Higgins office to talk about the dead kid. And I have a lot of notes on the provost. are all the being questioned? How does this man know about the fight at the bar? He mentions the fight at Nicky's. I'm like, did word really get out to the school? did something this minor, yeah, did something this minor really get out to the press. And then the provost like switches gears and he's like, Chase Collins was with you, no, ⁓ we wanna corrupt him. He has a ⁓ brilliant record and his family trust has benefited this institution. You should take him under your wing and no more fights, okay? it's just a weird exchange. ⁓ Roger: It doesn't almost feel like in a strange way, Provost Higgins is fully aware that the boys, the brothers of Iqwiff or whatever the fuck it is, ⁓ it's which you know, that Caleb specifically powers, has abilities. ⁓ there's nothing that said in actual dialogue that proves that, but Bret: Ipswitch. Yeah, yeah, Ipswitch. Roger: Just the way he talks to Caleb, it feels me as though he looks at him differently from the other students and would almost be aware because of his bloodline of what he's capable of. So I was really hoping this character, again, I was hoping he would go somewhere, tie into the story more, understand more his relationship to these boys and their abilities, but he's literally only there as a principal character. There's a couple of scenes where he is... Like you said, talking to one of the boys, getting more information on something that happened and nothing more. It's kind of a pointless, it really is kind of a pointless sequence to be honest. Bret: I think he pops up one more time for chase later on, like, yeah, no, it's ⁓ dialogue is very, I don't really, ⁓ probably could have just cut this. ⁓ Roger: Yeah, it doesn't really go anywhere. okay, so he's, you know, talking, he's confirming things that happened. ⁓ And he's now given reason to take chase under his wing, but he was kind of ⁓ already starting to do he and chase had already shared a moment. It was kind of awkward, but that could have naturally happened and cut some of this extra runtime out and maybe focused on other things that were more important. ⁓ So this character just doesn't really a purpose for me. And you know, meanwhile, Sarah, is off sleuthing and you know she's got some books on like local witches I guess and she's going through the Ipswich family and sleuthing about I don't know montages of illustrations. Bret: We get the obligatory supernatural research scene. Roger: Yes, yes. And I guess it's because she had the nightmare about the spiders. It must have been that realistic. But I don't I feel like we're jumping ahead a little bit for her to now be like, ⁓ witchcraft. do you get what I'm saying? I feel like this idea needed to bake a little bit more because she has one crazy visual. And I guess it was intense enough that she can't blow it off as a nightmare. But for her to suddenly go and start studying the background of Caleb. Bret: or maybe. Roger: and a laverre lore, you know, like it just seems like ⁓ a conclusion was jumped to really fast. Bret: Maybe the spiders, like, she, I feel like she could mean she very conveniently found everything like in the same book. ⁓ I mean, at the beginning, she was, she was kind of drawn to Caleb and curious about that, you know, asking Kate questions. So maybe this was just her leisurely. I know. Maybe, ⁓ maybe lucked out coming across the spider. It's like, ⁓ I know. Roger: Exactly. of it laid out for her. But was she getting books on Caleb's family? Because it says the brothers of Ipswich all over it. So obviously, assuming she's looking into them specifically. I guess she just took ⁓ of these urban legends at face value and was like, well, I guess this must be real. It just seems very quick that she jumps to the conclusion that Caleb and his coven would be involved at all. And another thing I want to point out is like, ⁓ Bret: It's my try. Roger: You got this moment here where Kate comes in and startles her. And I almost was suspecting in a way that they were setting Kate up to be a villain because Kate up to this point has been, you know, somewhat focal. She's definitely a major player over on the great structure of all the characters. she's gotten a lot of time on camera. And I was like, okay, like that would be kind of cool if the antagonist here was actually the female counterpart. Of course, it's not the case. She's just a damsel in distress at the end of the day. Bret: I we can't have any powerful females in this movie. Roger: No, no powerful women here because this is a movie about boys. And boy is it because this next scene is what I'm talking about. These men may be playing 18 but those bodies are giving me 25 to 34 and ⁓ ain't gonna mind that at all. Let me tell you, Pogue in that tiny fucking black speedo, whoo. I could crack an egg on ⁓ of these boys' stomachs and make an omelet on one of their asses because Bret: man a 12 pack. Wash your clothes on those ads. Roger: Hot, hot, ⁓ my God. Walking around in bathing suits, just hanging around. And then you're already like, this is gay. But then we go into the fucking showers and it's it's so gay and in the best possible way. you see asses, you see more nude men in this by far than you see of women. And I thought that was really shocking, but I am not gonna fucking complain about it. Bret: And this is even more gay. Okay. Roger: whatsoever. How do you feel about all these fanies? Bret: ⁓ yeah, I have, ⁓ this is probably where the queer element comes in. So, so I feel like when I've heard about this movie, people say that, you know, I feel like it's got a queer edge in certain spots. And then I'm like, we can elaborate more later because it does get even more gay later with between two, two males. But yeah, here we get butts, ass dimples. Most of it's covered up with steam, freaking cowards, but it's PG-13. So we can't, you know. Roger: does. Bret: We have to be tame. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we get Reed taking his towel off and whipping Tyler in the ass. Roger: mean, Reed with his little apple fanny and like, yes, they're definitely there's a lot of CGI steam in here, but you're still seeing enough of it that you're like, it's clear that they were like, ⁓ we're making a film for girls. So like, we need to show them butts. But what they didn't know is they were actually making a movie for gay men or maybe they did. I think they knew. I mean, what's coming up here? Cause there is a hard F word coming up. Aaron is back and he's causing mischief and he says fag. And I really feel like the only reason that they even had him say fag here in 2006 is because the scene feels so aggressively gay that they realized it and they're like, ⁓ shit, they felt pressured to be like, okay, we gotta make sure people don't think this movie's about gay witches. So we're gonna have you say fag just to make it clear, no homo, even though there's nothing but butts galore all over this whole scene. So I felt like they felt pressure, pressure to be butch, but really at the end of the day, we know that the ladies that made this film were secretly like, hmm, ⁓ but we need show some boy meat ⁓ because it's pretty Bret: Like Chase does get in close proximity to a lot of the characters at certain points. he's not afraid to get in Aaron's face and yeah, yeah, yeah. So when Aaron's like, what are you looking at? Yeah, and so Chase is that thing between your legs. It's like a penis only smaller. And then Aaron's about to beat the shit out of him when Caleb tries to intervene and then Chase is like. he's like, no, I got this. And he sweeps Aaron's legs out from under him. And then Chase is like, size isn't everything. ⁓ is so good. Roger: This multi-layered dick joke, really to hit it home, like no homo-fag. But just to keep cracking comments on how small the dude's dick is, ⁓ I thought like we were about to bust into a sketchy sex sequence because it was just the setup was there, but sadly there's no penetration, just butts. But I'll take it. I mean, the butts we see are looking pretty good. They're small butts, because it's the early to mid 2000s ⁓ and people still anorexic. Bret: Mmm! Roger: But it's still some cute butts. Bret: And so they end this like fairly homosexual scene with Chase and Caleb planning on spending some time together. And then Pogue is lingering behind, of like, don't know if they're suggesting that he's kind of jealous or, you And then I kind of like that the transition, we go from Pogue staying behind to Pogue and Kate Pogue does not want Kate hanging with Chase anymore. to which Kate replies, you know, he's being idiotic, pogestorms off. Outside the school, have Caleb dropping Sarah off after a date and he invites her to the big fall fest, which also happens to fall on his birthday. So things are starting to kind of build up a little bit more ⁓ lead us to the second half of the movie and the final act, slowly but surely. This around, Sarah and Caleb make out pretty intensely compared to the first time when he dropped her off. Roger: Are they both under rainfall or is this the one with, this is the one with the rainfall. Very dramatic. I mean, it's Salem, Massachusetts. It's a sad, solemn ⁓ whatever you would call it. But yeah, mean, Caleb with them fat lips and then just, ⁓ kissing them lips. ⁓ my God, I'm jealous. And he keeps up to that goddamn, that fucking bad CGI effect. Bret: It is always storming in this movie, always. ⁓ Yeah, his DSLs. Roger: Like he falls asleep here, wakes up. There's that fucking darkling again. It's back briefly. Bret: This one's pretty cool though, it's like standing over his bed. that's kind of, yeah. then, yeah, once again, it's not clear whether it's like doing something that could hurt him or if it's just like, just a quick image that represents. ⁓ I kind of like your, mentioned a foreboding. ⁓ It is just like a flash warning, like a flash omen. Roger: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he knows it's coming. Next scene is I think the swimming match. I'm like, could just shirtless Caleb and Chase just fucking make out already. ⁓ We're all it. They're both very handsome. I mean, they're shirtless, they're in Speedos. Sign me up. Bret: This This to me is roughly the, like, this is the halfway point of the movie where, like, forget about Reed now. Or, no, no, he comes up later. But I feel like the way the movie's structured very intentionally, like we were saying, the first half focuses on Reed as the possible suspect, but the pool scene coming up changes all that completely. Roger: point and we're an hour and 35 minutes. We are giving the Covenant the review it deserves. Microscopic! Bret: I can go faster. We cut to what I'm assuming is a swimming competition or maybe it's a swim class, who knows? And Caleb challenges Chase to a freestyle match. actually happens really fast. They're both in the water, basically side by side the entire time. But then Caleb spots Chase's eyes doing ⁓ we're familiar with, ⁓ golden warlock thing where they go completely black. And the next thing we know, Caleb smashes his head instead of kicking off on the wall and he blacks out. He comes to and then all the guys are standing over him. It's a nice shot. then Tate... ⁓ Roger: My kind of shot, again, very sketchy sex coded. Bret: ⁓ Tyler finally gets a line in and he's like, lucky for you, Chase got you out of the pool. And then ⁓ doesn't really, yeah, he doesn't have any kind of concussion. I mean, he's got warlock healing abilities or whatever. So, but now we know that Chase has ⁓ the as well, or something's going on with him. The following day, now the movie gets very Chase focused. So the following day we have Chase in, yeah, we cut to everyone in class again. I will say there is some repetition sort of in the middle of the film where we have Caleb dropping Sarah off a couple times and now we have the provosts office a couple times. But the next part baffles me. So the ⁓ is just as ridiculous this time around as when he was dealing with Caleb. He asks Chase, he's like, did you know that student who died in his car? Well, we found your student ID in the back of his car. ⁓ strange. ⁓ here's your student ID back. Have a good day. wouldn't the dead kid's mom be like, why was the student's ID in the back of my son's car? ⁓ Roger: Would that be evidence? there's just so many questions. And again, another reason why I think removing the provost would have done the a lot better is I think they felt like this was a necessary thing to tie in, but instead it just makes things more confusing. If they just wouldn't have had the sequence, I think the final reveal would have been a lot more ⁓ wow, like right now this moment here, they're basically handing it to you. Like listeners, like let's just be clear. I mean, I'm just gonna fucking get it out there. Cause why have any mystery? fucking chase is the bad guy. And like having this scene is really like blowing your load too early. It really is. it is, it is because if they would have removed everything with the provost, just get the fuck out of here. And instead at the opening of the film, giving me a scene with that mysterious ginger dying and explained it through showing it, then we wouldn't need any of this stupid backstory with the provost just talking to us. Like you could have just it for a better reveal. ⁓ so it really it seems really stupid to just introduce this moment here because they're really they're giving away what could be a surprise, you know. Bret: Yeah, Chase says later on that he killed the kid. we already get this later on again. it's and I feel like maybe this is supposed to be one of those tropes where the dean or the head of an academy doesn't want the school scandalized. So he's going to intentionally look the other way and play dumb. But yeah, it's just, it's bizarre. He's like, here's your ID. Okay. Have a good day. Roger: Right. Right. Yeah, it's already like you're starting to highly suspect Chase. this scene forward, you're like, ⁓ well, now this guy has to be the bad guy. And when he is, you're like, ⁓ OK. Like it just it feels like they could have saved this reveal for later on. It would have had more payoff. ⁓ Bret: This is So that, ⁓ So that night Caleb and Pogue break into the Academy's admissions office because Caleb is now like, I saw Chase's eyes turn black, we gotta check this guy out, we gotta check his records. So Caleb has to use magic, he uses magic to open the door and I think this might be the first time we see him ⁓ use, no no no, he uses magic hesitation before but here it's out of necessity I guess, he has to unlock the door. We quickly, very quickly cut to Sarah who learns that Kate's feeling sick at the infirmary. So she decides to head over there. Back in admissions, we get another covert research scene, but I actually appreciate that they don't linger too long on this. Caleb finds what he needs. He learns that Chase's, we get a lot of stuff here. He learns that Chase's adoptive parents died in a car accident. Chase's real last name is Pope. Chase Goodwin Pope, born July 14th, 1988. The Collins adopted him after his mother died when he was two. Caleb does the math and he realizes that Chase's adoptive parents died on his 18th birthday. So basically once again, we're being handed stuff. we can gather from this that Chase had his ascension and then killed his adoptive parents. Yeah. Roger: It's a lot. It's a lot of fucking exposition. And again, they tell and they tell and they tell and a lot of these things they don't show. me a flashback. I don't know. know, give me a flashback at the right time. Let me see these things happen. ⁓ it just, gets to be very tedious, honestly. just all of this information that they're spewing. But luckily there's this whole little bit here. this bit feels very CW. Like the whole bit. Bret: Very, are you talking about the security guard coming in? This is very like Harry Potter. Roger: The security guard, yeah, the whole bit of them floating up to the ceiling. Yeah, I mean, it's fun though, it's fun, but the security guard comes in, he finds the drawer open and they floated up to the ceiling and they drop their pages, but luckily they use their powers to catch them too before the security guard spots them. It's fun though, like it looks good. Bret: Caleb once again has to use magic. in one night, Caleb's using magic multiple times. So like Caleb starts using and using and using. And he's not like, they don't ever suggest that he's like addicted or whatever, but out of necessity or whatever, we are seeing Caleb constantly use magic. So back in the hospital, Sarah learns that Kate's temperature is at 105 and she's showing symptoms of anaphylactic shock and Roger: Yes. Bret: They're transferring her to another hospital. doctor tells her it's as if she's been bitten by hundreds of insects like spiders. Like wouldn't they be able to tell just by looking at their spider bites? I don't know, but I guess it doesn't matter. We have enough context clues to know that, to know yes, it is spiders. then Sarah knows too. Then we have that meeting at the lair. I mentioned the lair earlier. We have Caleb and Pogue. Caleb's immediately hit with the realization that Chase Goodwin Pope must be a descendant of Goody Pope, who I'm gathering was like a member of the Fifth Family who was banished. Like I said, I could not follow this whole, ⁓ what's important, ⁓ equals bad guy. Like that's all we need to know. Roger: They give us a whole lot of information that again, sounds straight out of the fucking crucible. And I feel like the really the mentality with this is let's make things look as dark and brooding and pretty as possible. And maybe people just won't ignore the awful storyline because they're in this room and it's filled with candles and there's wax dripping and there's fire coming out of the floor. Books are floating. ⁓ it's just of sudden you're like, whoa, this is like, heavy on the witchcraft. like, I, there's an underground layer, and I'm not really listening to anything they're saying at this point at all. But I mean, like they're just throwing out names, goodie fucking pope. I just, you know what, it's all going over my head at this point. I don't think I'm supposed to care. Bret: Of there's an underground layer. Yeah. We get like John Fucknum or something. We get random guys names that don't even matter. Roger: Yeah. Yeah. And was just in and out, in and out of my, one ear and out the other. And so yeah, it gets you to a point, I couldn't tell you, Brett, I couldn't tell you what they said here. I don't know. They're all handsome. ⁓ There's a of fire. The candles look really good, but yeah. Bret: It's come, come not for the plot, stay for the vibes. Roger: Stay for the homosexuality, I would say. I mean, that's the only reason a gay person's gonna get through this movie is because it is very, very gay. But yeah, I mean, it's fine. It looks pretty. Bret: I became very focused on, I know I've mentioned this a few times already, but there's a gradual increase in Caleb using his powers nilly-willy for stupid things. Here, first I was like, why is he using his powers to take the book off the shelf? But maybe they're not allowed to touch the book, because floats to the center of the group and it's surrounded by a ring of fire. So we've heard nothing about this book. ⁓ Once The Darkling, this book, it's just established, it's just like lore that they know, we don't, but like we just have to roll with it. This book must have been passed down from them from fathers and their fathers before them. And anyways, Caleb gets confirmation that Goody Pope was one of the condemned and this is like, it's clear. Yes, Chase is the descendant of the exiled fifth bloodline. Like I said, yeah. ⁓ Roger: Well, and that's what it is. Like, they tell you right here, and again, there's no additional layers of mystery or revelation here. what they find out here is correct, and the rest of the movie is just now you've got to stop chase. it's not like there's any more intrigue or any more big you know, which is kind of a bummer, I would say. Bret: RE- Reed does have like a pretty bad line delivery. He's like, that's crazy. He can't be. And yeah, so we get confirmation also from like Reed clarifies like, yeah, I did not use again that night after fixing Sarah's car. So there's this final moment where like the air is clear between him and Caleb. And yeah, pretty much after this moment, Reed isn't really, like we said, he's not important anymore. This is his last moment basically. Roger: What a waste, truthfully. anyone was getting some good backstory, some good development, aside from Caleb, it was Reed. And to just suddenly like screech the brakes on that and just completely shift over to Chase, who becomes a completely different character. And I guess that makes sense because ⁓ been masquerading as the good guy. he can kind of, yeah, he can get into everyone's, guess, get into the social circle, get to infiltrate. Bret: Green was fun, yeah. I'm just a student. Roger: the Covenant, if you will, or the Coven. And then like, obviously now there's this big revelation and it's really just like, I mean, ⁓ matter of fact, cause there's, this is the whole bit where now we're, Pogue gets on his motorcycle, he goes to leave and he has this encounter in the road with Chase, like straight up says, I'm the bad guy and I'm going to start fucking shit up here. Bret: He, yeah, Pogue leaves abruptly because he, yeah, Caleb gets a call from Sarah and she's like, Kate's in the hospital, she's been attacked by spiders. She also says like, I've been having nightmares about spiders. So Caleb's like, go back to your dorm, wait. So this, yeah, this next, I get that he had to tell the others, but like, what did he think was gonna happen? Of course, Pogue is gonna go off on his own. So he hears that Kate was, you know, had a spell put on her. So he. ⁓ Yeah, he goes ballistic, on it, hops on his motorcycle. next part, once again, ⁓ a lot of, I do appreciate that a lot of stuff in the second half does happen very fast, like Pogue's on his bike going at breakneck speed, Chase is in the middle of the road. They give Chase like a couple of one-liners, like he's a mustache trolling villain or Freddy Krueger. He's like, come to save little Miss Muffet, have we? Well, you're too late. A spider came down and sat down beside her and frightened Miss Muffet away. ⁓ Roger: It's such bad dialogue, like even wonderful Sebastian Stan, who is a phenomenal actor, cannot save it. And you know it's the dialogue, because there's a few moments like later where he's actually really good because the dialogue isn't horrible, but some of the fucking one liners, like, you know, this film is very much trying to replicate the overall concepts of other films that we've talked about, like the Lost Boys, or series like, like a Buffy or like but all of those ⁓ had a distinct sense of humor that really made it work, even through the midst of the most absurd scenarios. Each one of those those franchises, if you will, or those series had a relatively, like a pretty dark sense of humor too. This tries, but the writing is just nowhere as good or as intelligent as any of those other franchises. Bret: They quickly try to give him his villain. Yeah, they quickly try to make him like, forget anything you knew about him the first half of the movie. This is giggly, impish villain Chase. Like, Pogue revs his engine and goes at him. Chase easily flips him off and destroys the bike. I get that Chase was egging him on and I get that Kate is Pogue's girlfriend and of course he's pissed, but like. Pogue should know the established rules, right? That someone who's already had their ascension, we know that Chase has had his ascension. Someone who's already reached their ascension according to Caleb's mother is like a thousand times more powerful. So I don't Pogue has had his ascension. ⁓ So how you think that this was gonna go? so Pogue, yeah, Pogue tells Chase, ⁓ you hurt Kate and kill you. Chase is like, hurt her, I only hurt her to get to you and it's you I'm gonna hurt. ⁓ And you're just my to get to Caleb. So basically he's like pulling a Mean Girls here where he's like cutting the group down one by one to slowly weaken them. Roger: But when he says that, he actually says he's going to use Pogue to get to Caleb, but he really doesn't. He injures him, but Pogue is in the hospital for the rest of this. I guess maybe he's luring Caleb, because Caleb's pissed off that he hurt his friend, but Pogue isn't capable of doing anything other than muttering a few lines after this point. So Pogue is injured and... Sarah goes back to her dorm and this is kind of a cool scene. I think this is pretty awesome. But again, like now, know, Chase is full on villain mode. So they're just kind of putting it in your face. There's no mystery left. So Sarah gets back to her dorm, knock at the door. It's Caleb who comes in dark, brooding, bathed in shadows and he sits down on the bed. Bret: ⁓ I was surprised. Yeah. Roger: and they start to talk and then there's a knock on the door again and she opens the door and it's fucking, it's Caleb again and he's also dark and brooding. And then right away she looks over and Chase is like, it's me. And he turns into Chase and you're like, motherfucker? Like now we're just turning into people. Like it's just out in the open. Bret: It's... It's cancer! Thank It's... He was using glamour. Yeah. Yup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Chase basically poofs Sarah. So now Sarah's on her bed in like a of a comatose state kinda. And now like Kate, Sarah is being used as kind of like leverage or... So I ⁓ what he's trying to do. At first he went after Kate, then he went after Pogue, and now he's using Sarah. He even suggests coming up that like he's like, ⁓ everyone know, not just Sarah, you I will go after everyone. So yeah, Chase reveals it was difficult growing up. So yeah, Chase and Caleb had this kind of standoff and Chase reveals it was very difficult growing up without anyone teaching him what his powers were, how to control them. So he kept using and he became an addict. And before he could stop, he was like, just too late, I was hooked. He ended tracking down his real father who ⁓ was withered from using, just like Caleb's dad. shit, was that a spoiler? ⁓ Roger: I mean, like, is there any spoiler? If people have stuck around this long, I don't think they fucking care about spoilers, my friend. I hope they've seen the movie. Bret: I The old... You remember, remember guys, when we talked about the old man in the colonial house with a withered hand? That's Caleb's father. Anyways, Chase's father basically ended up giving him all of his power. So now we learn that you can do some kind of power transference thing between fathers and sons. Roger: pickled hand. It's way too late to introduce this nonsense, okay? Like, now we're talking about transferring powers, and like, I guess that means like the father kills themself by giving them all their power, but like, at this point in the game, you're throwing way too much at me. Like, it's too confusing. Bret: There's a lot of, we were talking about exposition. We get a lot of background here. like, Chase kind of suggests that his father ⁓ willingly him, ⁓ yeah, those motherfuckers. ⁓ Like, like, and he died knowing that his son was gonna get revenge on your covenant. So Chase puts one of his CGI spiders in Sarah's ear and she's a very strange sort of spell, like veins are crisscrossing against her, spreading over her face. And Caleb says, you leave her like that, she's gonna die. And then here we find out what Chase is really after. an addict, right? So more power, more power from Caleb because he'll be going through his ascension. So basically Caleb's gonna become like a fountain of magic. So ⁓ Chase wants to tap that. And ⁓ they get really close here. ⁓ And I it's just on the edge of maybe I'm reaching, who knows? I think the homoerotic reading is more about this like suggestion of power transference between these two men like submit to me and give me everything. like one of the ongoing themes is seduction, right? Seduction to use power. And we've seen Caleb do this multiple times now, especially in the second half. Chase tells Caleb to be at Putnam Barn tomorrow on his birthday, right when he's about to ascend. And he's like, you're gonna give Wilmi all your power. And if you do so, I will let Sarah live. But he makes a point that This isn't just about Sarah. I'll go after your mom. I'll go after Reed. I'll go after Tyler. Anyone connected to the families, I will not hesitate to kill them. We get confirmation that he killed his adoptive parents, but like we already knew this, and that he killed the kid at the Dells, as if we didn't already know this too. And he killed the kid that night. Yeah, he killed the kid that night because he witnessed him using magic. And, yeah. Roger: Show me. me him using it. Give me that visual. Why would you just tell me all of this again? I'm not gonna give you fucking anything. And let me just say, ⁓ about this film, when it comes to gay context, my friend, is reaching. I think it's there. Those are hanging fruit. So like, ⁓ truly everything this is gay. Especially, I mean, I hope it's low hangers in general with these two. ⁓ Bret: We're not gonna give you anything. Very low hanging. Roger: Right now I'm thinking they're pretty hard for each other. Those things are all the way up. Bret: I it even, it goes even further. They're in the bathroom together. anyways, Sarah's looking all corpsey on her bed. Chase furthers his point by making her slightly, just like almost slightly conscious so she can, I'm assuming she's like feeling some of what's happening. And ⁓ causes Caleb to use. He's egging Caleb on to use. So this causes Caleb to go all obsidian-eyed. They've got a fight that like destroys the bathroom mirror. And, I think Sebastian Stan's acting is pretty good here. He laughs and he's like, do you see my problem here? Like I am addicted. I cannot stop. And again, he emphasizes that no one told me about this. No one told me what could happen if I use. He didn't have a band of brothers to anchor him like the others. I have, this part is a little gay. Chase gets on top of him and it kind of looks like looks him over, looks his face over. He's like touching him. Maybe like with a mix of like appreciation and envy, like. Then he calls him brother mockingly, gives him a kiss on the cheek. They don't do lip to lip, unfortunately. He then reassembles the bathroom mirror and then Caleb's like, ⁓ are gonna take the spider out of Sarah's ear? Like, you can't leave that in. And so like, fine. So he takes spider out and he leaves. Sarah wakes up all healthy looking and Caleb's like, ⁓ you passed out after you told me that Poe was in an accident. No, did I say that Caleb tells her that she passed out after he told her Pogue was in an accident. The hospital coming up, is a turning point where, because Sarah ends up learning the truth about everything. We get Caleb visiting the hospital, Pogue something like, he's too powerful. Yeah, no shit, he went through his ascension. But he got his father's power. So there's this emphasis that you become almost like double powerful. So not only do you become super powerful through the ascension, if your father gives you the power, you're like double ascended, I guess. Roger: And like, think like the one thing I have kind of taken away from this whole convoluted mess of nonsense is like, you see, so you see Caleb's father and his state and it's because he's, you know, he's abused his powers. at this point, he's used so much that he is now he's his, his body is wearing away from it. ⁓ And I think that Chase is aware that inevitably that is he's risking the same thing, because the more he uses his powers, the more it's physically taking effect on him. So if he takes Caleb's powers from him, it's like charging his battery back up. And so that's why he's looking at Caleb as a source of so much power, because he's barely used his powers and he's very selective about when he uses it for the most part. So like that is one thing that has kind of landed a bit is that Chase is wanting to basically preserve his physical state, his youth. But yeah, I would say like, you know, Sebastian Stan is really good in this moment. I love that he's considerate enough to fix the mirror. Like that is such a ⁓ bitchy gay. Like I'm leaving, but I will fix the mirror. And same with Sarah. Like, fine, I'll remove the spider. But yeah, like poor Sarah's going through it, by the way. Like she keeps having visions. It's almost like Men in Black, where they keep using that fucking pen and like wiping people's memories. Poor Sarah keeps experiencing things and he's like, ⁓ no, you just, ⁓ Bret: You He's like, fine, I guess I'll just fight her out. You Roger: You passed out because you found out that Pogue was injured in a motorcycle accident. Bullshit. It's all bullshit. But luckily, at least she does finally find out what the fuck is happening. Bret: Well, maybe that's maybe that's exactly why he tells her because she's already been having night terrors. She's her her roommate is in the hospital. Like, So Caleb goes to Sarah and yeah, maybe it's from seeing Pogue in the hospital and hearing what happened to Kate or ⁓ I think it's more from Sarah telling him here like I read about the spiders being one of the charges against the Fifth Family. What going on? And so he reveals the truth here. She She ends up meeting, they end up going back to that house, the old colonial house. She meets the old withered man in the chair and learn that that's his father, father, ⁓ who burned from using too much. And she also learns about everything that we already know now. She learns about the Ipswich families, the covenant rules, the ascension. And she takes it all in stride. She's like frightened a little at first, but she's like, okay, I trust you. It's very Twilight. Roger: And I do love that, like, Caleb is like, this is my father, who is 44 years old. And like, fucker is going through it. Like, no under, like, no wonder that these fuckers don't want to use their power. That's why he's saying, like, Reed, stop it, because you're going to become a pickled man. Like, you're going to become a withered. You're going to look like fucking Nosferatu from that Robert Eggers remake. Ugly Nosferatu, but oilier. Bret: Okay. Roger: Like, and like, yeah, it's just like. Bret: There are people who crush over Nasparatu from that movie. Roger: I don't understand it. You fuckers are crazy. Like, get out of here with that. Like, absolutely not. He's horrifying. And not even like, I didn't even really like that Nosferatu, to be honest, but he's just homely. He's a very ugly vampire. And this is a very ugly, withered man. This poor William Putnam laying there. Bret: He can't like, he can't even at this point, at this stage where it's at, I don't think he can even talk. He just kind of like looks up and smiles. He's like, yes, that's my son right there. ⁓ Roger: Yeah, and Sarah's just like accepting like dudes a warlock like she's not freaking out. She's not throwing shit. So like good for her. I mean at least she's chill in the face of danger. That's one thing we could say for fucking Sarah. Bret: Maybe she's got enough at this point that like she knows like between the night terrors and experiencing magic herself like like I don't know she really does take all yeah, she takes all of this in stride This is where we cut to this the night of the dance So we cut to the night of the Fall Fest dance thing and we're at Caleb's manor Caleb fills his mother in on what's been happening and she's like we got to go to your father We got up and I'm assuming she's suggesting like this an early suggestion here of what's gonna happen eventually, right? Like, like, we gotta go to your father. But Caleb's like, no, no, no. He tells Reed and Tyler, take Sarah to the dance. Chase shouldn't be stupid enough to try anything there. But like, shouldn't they all just not go to the dance? Like, a in going to this dance? Like, are- Roger: Right. Like, you know, you all need to gang up and get ready to fucking, like, just ditch the dance. She looks great in that dress, I'll give her that, but God, like, this is the least of my concerns right now. Right now you gotta bring down fucking handsome Sebastian Stan and his crazy addiction to power. Bret: Yeah, they're not, they're not using, they're not planning on using Sarah as bait. They're just gonna be on the lookout at the party, I guess. And so, yeah, Reed and Tyler are, they basically like handymen the rest of the movie. They're like, they're not ⁓ useful, but. ⁓ Roger: They fail like right away Sarah is abducted like I mean they turn around and she's gone if it was that easy I'd be like don't even fucking go to the dance get the girl into a bunker or something but no like they take her to the dance and she's immediately taken away abducted by Sebastian Stan like it takes nothing at all. It's a blink of an eye and she's Bret: Literally like five seconds. ⁓ So yeah, spider curse or not chase it was always intended on using her as bait somehow or he says later like I I'm you she's my insurance policy I wanted to make sure you came to the barn but like ⁓ feel like it's ⁓ you were saying convoluted, but I feel bad Sarah doesn't really have any badass moments going forward She's just yeah we get Roger: None. She's so underutilized during the finale. It's disappointing because you've mentioned earlier, like, all of the horror adjacent sequences have kind of fallen on her shoulders. And for her to now just be like kind of a tool, she's just a prop piece really moving forward. ⁓ disappointing. And same with Reed and Tyler. Tyler, who's literally barely done anything at all. I think he's had like three lines ⁓ and who is now completely just wasted. they... ⁓ They're given one job to do, they fuck it up, and then they don't get there in time. Like, that's really what it is. Bret: Maybe that guy was filming Gossip Girl around this time too, so they were like, he's like, I can only be here for like a weekend. Roger: guess so. It's time for some more CGI effects, I guess. Because you've got Caleb, who's now driving again, and he's immediately attacked by Chase. There's this whole bit where Chase busts through his windshield and the whole thing explodes inwards. And it looks okay. A lot of explosions moving forward. Lots of glass. ⁓ Bret: ⁓ we get a final showdown in the Putnam barn where Sarah is like held in a trance like Sleeping Beauty and she's like levitating and Chase tells Caleb Yeah, I didn't think you were gonna keep up your end of the bargain. So Sarah's my insurance policy ⁓ get it. We need Sarah here for the showdown, but I thought he was gonna do yeah, like I said I thought he was gonna do the spider curse thing if he didn't listen but now he's switching gears and I find it funny that the movie both starts and ends once again with ⁓ I'm the Lost Boys again We get a big barn showdown between these two and it did remind me of the confrontation between Michael and David when they're both become vampirey, right? So these two, both get their warlock eyes, right? And they're, ⁓ my God, ⁓ another one-liner. How about I make you my weeotch? Roger: Get out of here with that fucking nonsense. This ending kills me. It makes me so mad because literally it's strategically placed he's attacked in front of the Putnam barn. He's chased inside chase basically of course he gives like a big monologue to set the groundwork ⁓ I'm gonna make it seem you had a big car accident ⁓ and nobody will question it but coven they'll know they'll know deep down that I'm the most powerful and it it launches into this big battle but Bret: with rock music. Roger: really like the battle is kind of fucking lame. I mean, they're jumping all around. They're busting through and breaking wood. ⁓ Bret: It's like double stylized, just fast movements and... ⁓ Roger: Yeah, but it's just nothing but blurs of that fucking like power blast that they do like you said like Dragon Ball Z ha-me-ah-me-ah like that's what it looks like. Bret: This is how it works. Chase does, ⁓ I do like the transparent ribbon thingy that comes out of his fingers and it's like they're invisible ropes pulling Caleb closer. I think that was kind of cool, but side note, this is really just a note that ⁓ I like, so I grew up watching the show Smallville and that was filmed in Canada and this is filmed in Canada and I'm like, this barn looks exactly like the same barn used on that TV show. And apparently I wasn't the only one who thought that I was like looking it up and someone was like is that the Kent farm from Smallville ⁓ no this is not the same barn but this So even though this is supposed to be ⁓ Located this film is supposed to be in Massachusetts, but it was filmed in Canada. So Roger: This whole time I've been complimenting Massachusetts for being so beautiful and it's actually Canada. Well, I mean, Canada is lovely and the home of Nellie Furtado. So yeah, fuck me, I guess, Bret: Canada. It did? They didn't okay. They did. I think they did a pretty good job. they showed colonial houses. They gave the cops Massachusetts, you know, I'm over here. ⁓ ⁓ know, they did, they did enough to make you say, okay, yep, this is Salem ish. ⁓ So the moment comes when Caleb starts sending finally much to chase his joy and like, Roger: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bret: It looks kind of painful, not as painful as like a werewolf transformation, but Caleb's just like, he's against this beam and he's like, ⁓ like, and does get powerful enough to start fighting back again. It's worth noting that one of the lanterns gets knocked over. Chase does his warlock eyes thing and it only makes the fire more, you know, it's creeping towards Sarah. Chase blasts Caleb out the window and he's lying in a heap. and it seems like all hope is lost. And then we get Caleb's mom, and she's hurrying back to the colonial house, and she gets Caleb's father to do the, what Chase had his dad do. Caleb's does the power transference. His father dies and gives all of his magic to Caleb remotely. Like, I don't know how that works, but it's magic. again, it's all really fast. Caleb basically kapows Chase. Chase like, so this part confused me. Chase goes flying and kind of like there's fire and he kind of disappears. And I think the first time I watched it, I was like, did he evaporate? what happens? But they do address it. what was your take when you first saw it? Were you like, ⁓ he just disappeared. Roger: I literally thought he erupted into a ball of flame. power transfer, for being talked about the whole movie, it's real fucking fast. The who has been nothing but an afterthought until the last five minutes of the movie, she comes in and has this big moment. She's like, ⁓ give your power. ⁓ Do save your son. ⁓ And dad's like, and just like fucking Nosferatu in the goddamn remake, he screams and bursts into a Bret: Use your time. Roger: blur of light, and then it comes down to like the form of a lightning bolt and it hits Caleb and he's, yeah, he's got his full power. Very Dragon Ball. And he, he beats the shit out of Chase and then yeah, he blasts him into a ball of flame. And I was like, I guess he just, I don't know, fucking erupted. It feels very very lackluster for this buildup. I would have expected to see Chase go out. Bret: It is a very dragon moment. Yeah. Roger: in a big excruciating manner and for him to just get like blasted away like what actually fucking happened? Do you know something I don't know? Is that what we're saying? Bret: So I do have some theories, yeah, at first I thought he was like, I'm like, did he get sent to another dimension? So yeah, so ⁓ gets Sarah out of the fire. This is kind of a cheesy moment, places her in the hay wagon. There's some slow motion, cheesy closeups of her coming awake and he stroke in her face and rains. Of course it's raining again. It's this 99 % of this movie, it's storming. Anyways, we get. So at the same time we get Kate and Pogue awakening in the hospital and it's suggesting that like, yeah, they're free from Chase's influence and they'll heal. And then we ⁓ get the classic end of horror movie set up with the fire trucks and the police and the EMTs. ⁓ But it's revealed that they can't find Chase's body. So I'm like, okay, I guess he didn't evaporate in the fire after going kaboom. It's just kind of suggested that he's gone. And. Roger: Right. Bret: My theory had there been like a sequel maybe he rapidly aged after the energy ball went through him or something or I have no idea he maybe he just went into hiding. ⁓ Roger: Well, I mean, this ending in general, Brett, let's pause here and just acknowledge for ⁓ of this, ⁓ of this talking and talking about ascending and just rambling on and on and on. ⁓ ending, not only is his apparent defeat kind of open-ended and kind of just ⁓ you're kind of just left hanging. I guess he just disappeared, like just dissolved. Bret: You've just like gone. Roger: But also this last moment with Sarah and Caleb in the car together, where there's not really any conclusion or anything. They have a line to each other and they just drive away. This really needed something to either reveal like, Chase still alive, or show them all reconvening with the other members of the coven, or getting back together with the other pivotal characters. Bret: ⁓ that's... Roger: and reconnecting for them to just drive off and it just ends that abruptly. it's literally you get a minute of film after Chase is defeated. There's like one more minute of film and it wraps it up real quick and it's done. And it feels so just rushed. I really needed more conclusion. I needed this to wrap things up so much neater and it leaves so much just hanging in the air, you know? Bret: So I do feel like this is going to end up like had it done well, feel maybe they were planning on doing a franchise because because everybody is alive basically and so I know I've been like emphasizing Caleb using his magic so much but here he uses it to fix his broken windshield nonchalantly. He's just like, okay. And he yeah, he doesn't show any like hesitation or restraint like he usually does. And he's like, there's like people around but ⁓ Roger: Absolutely. Bret: It's fine. Yeah, there's cops and ambulances and other people nearby, but somehow nobody sees him do it. And I'm wondering, like, is this implying that now that he's inherited his father's powers, will he also keep using recklessly? Is he might follow a similar path or, I don't know, I feel like it's almost like an ominous. Even Sarah gives him maybe it's just a subtle look like, ⁓ he just did that. And then, so I wonder if the ending is kind of ominous, because Chase is nowhere, Reed uses his magic ⁓ they just drive away. Yeah, not like a huge focus on generational curses or passing trauma but like to me the focus does, the whole movie beginning to end, the focus is on this addiction to magic. And I do wonder if they gave you just enough to be like, will Caleb not be restrained forward? Roger: I show me the mother reconnecting with her son after her husband and his father sacrificed himself so he could defeat this evil entity. ⁓ ⁓ show me Reed after being painted as a villain for the first half, come in and do something of value, ⁓ or just reconnect with these characters in general. Like, it just makes it feel like everyone else's storyline doesn't really matter here. And I think you're absolutely right in saying, it feels like they were... Bret: There's no emotion between him and his dad. Yeah. Roger: too big for their britches and they thought, we're definitely making a sequel. And when we make that sequel, we're just continuing the story. So there's no need to really wrap things up here because we'll just tell them in the sequel. And like, no, as a standalone film, this is not a complete story. I feel very disappointed in how it ended. there's a lot of fun to take away from this film. honestly, conclusionary notes here, this is the end of the movie. And while the ending is really kind of just a CGI fest and nothing more. Building up to that, I actually had a lot of fun watching this. There was a point when I was watching the movie and I was like, I was planning on watching it in shifts the first time I viewed it. And I was like, I'm actually going to push my plans back and just finish it through the first viewing because I'm actually kind of having fun watching this. It's strangely nostalgic watching this, even though I hadn't seen it before. But that ending, man, like it really left me feeling disappointed. Bret: I feel like it was possibly going to be a franchise, then I was reading that they didn't go forward with it because this movie didn't do amazing. It was Modest Box Office, but it didn't do amazing. Roger: No, was, right. It was like a 20 million budget and I think they made like 39 million. Like I think it was something like that. they didn't even double the budget. And normally you have to from ⁓ box terms, profit means once you doubled ⁓ the production budget, cause you're accounting for like promotion and everything as well. And they did not fully even double their budget. So it made some money, but not enough to be considered a success. Bret: Yeah, and reviews wise, got mixed reviews. The films panned almost everywhere. I think it has a 3 % 4 % on Rotten Tomatoes. But surprisingly, people actually really adore it on Amazon. If you look at the Amazon reviews, out of 6,000 ratings, 80 % of people rate it 5 stars. maybe it's one of those movies that critics absolutely destroyed it. But maybe over time, it's just one of those movies that people have grown a soft spot for because of its flaws. And it's so I mean, I don't think it's a case of being I don't know. So what is your, ⁓ do you that they like film this knowing it was gonna be perceived later on as kind of campy and you think it's like, ⁓ I don't it's on the same par with like showgirls. ⁓ Roger: ⁓ my god, no, not at all. mean, well, first of all, I hope that the people you're talking about are the ones that listened to this fucking episode. Let me tell you that because we get in very deep. We get two hours and 20 minutes deep into fucking the covenant. So let me find another podcast that's ever done that before. ⁓ ⁓ yeah, I don't think, I definitely think that they were ⁓ trying capitalize on the tales of like a Twilight and it's very much tonally the same, but I think. I think that they were trying to be a little bit more serious with this, where Twilight is just so fantastical and they lean into what is like really the camp factor, you know, the moment of them playing the baseball game, her kicking her leg up and all that, it was so over the top. This, think they tried to play it a little, a little darker, a little more masculine. I think to try maybe... win over that female fan base that was gonna be watching this by having a movie about like, you know, these masculine men who are brooding but emotional and they're feeling things and they're going through puberty, AKA ascending. I don't know, I think they're, that because of the approach they took, it's not anywhere near as campy as some of the other titles we've discussed, but for that, I think it hasn't necessarily aged as gracefully. some films, that are really bad when they first come out, that camp factor is why they stick around. look at Showgirls. Showgirls now has a fan base that celebrates it because it's so campy and it's been embraced that over time, even those who've created it have embraced the camp factor. This ⁓ isn't it's not absurd enough, it's not over the top enough to be fully campy. So I think that's part of why it's kind of faded into the background a little bit more. Like you don't hear the covenant talked about that much, you But there is definitely a camp factor that exists in the homoeroticism, in the more absurd moments overall. know, half the time it's playing it safe almost like you had said at one point, almost like a Dawson's Creek kind of approach. when it's not being fantastical, it's played very dry. But there are moments here where it does lean into the more stylish. ⁓ CGI laden visuals of the 2000s, the mid 2000s specifically. And I do think surprisingly those are some of the stronger moments when it does it right, like the shower sequence, like some of the driving sequences, they actually managed to pull it off sometimes. So I think there are things to celebrate about this film. I don't think it's completely laughable. I think it's actually pretty enjoyable, but the flaws in the script and specifically the ending do, it make sense to me why this film is, you know, from a review standpoint, from a critical standpoint, really kind of trashed because is it a good film? ⁓ it a good story? ⁓ absolutely not. There's just some fun to be had along the way. Yeah. Bret: It's fun. Yeah, I would describe it that way too. I had fun watching this. I would watch it again. I would happily watch it again. I feel like it's kind of movie you can watch with a group of people just to laugh at it. Just have fun with it. Roger: ⁓ my God. And then make him listen to this fucking podcast. I hope Troy watches it. When Troy watches it, I hope he is ready to listen to our review because I think that this is one of our more entertaining reviews we've done in a while. And I think he's gonna be very jealous that he was not included. But you know what? Now Troy, make sure that you sit down and watch The Covenant because if you haven't, this film is very gay. It's perfect for you, you big old homosexual and all of our gay listeners as well. Bret: hahaha Woo! Roger: And the ladies too. I think there's a lot to take away from this film to make fun of and to enjoy. So good call, Brett. Good choice for this week's unexpected episode because I think everyone was expecting what Troy and I announced last week, but no, this is kind of out of nowhere. So I think that our listeners are gonna be pleasantly surprised. Bret: Thank Roger, thank you for having me on. I have been wanting to have you to myself for a while. remember to you, all three of us could be on an episode, but we would talk over Troy totally. ⁓ Roger: Troy would be nothing but a shadow on the wall and he'd be seething with jealousy. He'd be so mad. ⁓ my God. But no, we'll definitely, well, clearly you're going to have to come back again soon. Listeners demand it. When you leave a five-star review, say, we're leaving this five-star review specifically for Brett Laurie and what he brings to the table. Make it clear, your demands in our reviews. with that, everyone, thank you so much. Brett, thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate you taking time to join us on this episode darkening the podcast. In closing, if you have like any social media handles that you want to mention or any at all that you want our listeners to keep their eyes on or follow you on any of your social media platforms, this is the time to say it. Bret: too much right now but I I don't know if this is like premature revealing ⁓ like ⁓ am writing I have written a book ⁓ I am currently looking for a cover artist ⁓ ⁓ plan on self publishing this year so I yeah my first book should come out sometime sometime this year knock on wood Roger: ⁓ my god. listeners, ready to buy that fucking book and support our friend here. ⁓ my god, when you said premature, I thought you were going to announce that you too were about to ascend and I was like, ⁓ wow, ⁓ no, even better. He's a book. ⁓ my goodness. So we will make sure to share that when that drops. Let us know. But other than that, Brett, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for making time for an episode of Dark Night of the Podcast this evening. That was so wonderful to get to sit down with you. I had a great time. Bret: Me too, Roger. Thank you. Roger: With that, listeners, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your night. I'll be back in the next week or two, depending on Troy, coming off of his sabbatical. You know she needs time, she needs to rest. in the next week or two, we will be back with a normal episode of Dark Night of the Podcast. Until then, good night.