Latest / College Is Fine, Everything's Fine / #62 From Panicking to Planning: Problem Solving with Dr. Lindsay Tulchin

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#62 From Panicking to Planning: Problem Solving with Dr. Lindsay Tulchin · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

Problem Solving with Dr. Lindsay Tulchin[00:00:00] I am Dr. Sarah Olivo. And I'm Dr. Liz Seidler, and you're listening to college is fine. Everything's fine.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Hi listeners. I'm so excited Today we have on, a very dear friend, an amazing psychologist, and we're gonna be discussing problem solving a skill that I think most people, when they hear it sounds really basic, but we're, we're in luck, Sarah, because the person we have on today has solved. A lot of problems in my life for me, and I'm not joking.Um, she's the most practical, logical, helpful person. And you know, I think we all can agree that life presents a lot of stressors and problems. Some big, some small, and sometimes our emotions can get in the way of us being able to problem solve. And I've beenlucky to benefit by having this [00:01:00] person in my life.So. Dr. Lindsay Tolson, introduce yourself. Wow.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Wow. Thanks, Liz. What an introduction. I appreciate that and I'm happy to solve all of your problems for the rest of your life. If you, if you want me to.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: And Lindsay, I mean, we've met, I would say that we're friendly colleagues, but I mean, apparently, could you be a more prominentriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Definitely, definitely just invite me on a girl's trip and I'll get you a rental car.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Oh, you'll figure that out for us. I, you're the exact kind of friend I need.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Oh, that's so.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Well, thank you for having me. , I've been waiting for the invite for a couple years now, so I'm so, I'm so flattered and honored that I finally. I finally got it.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Lindsay coming on?riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Um, no, I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. I'm, uh, excited to talk about, you know, the ways in which we solve a problem or two, um, a little bit about meriverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Yeah. riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: you get to [00:02:00] brag.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: great. , so I'm in private practice. I, I see mostly adults, but I do see a lot of college aged kids. And I, I specialize in cognitive behavioral therapy.I see a lot of anxiety, OCD, general life stuff. Uh, so I have that private practice. And then I also have a group private practice, called New York Cognitive that , I have with my partner Dr. Jamie Shum and we have some clinicians there. I am faculty at Cornell and at in the city, and I am also the president of N-Y-C-C-B-T Association and I have a family and three kids and you know, lots of other fun stuff in my life.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Catch your breath. That's a lot of.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: I know it's a lot. It's a whole spiel. It's a whole spiel,riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Well, um, and I, I think they heard, but you're in New York City, rightLindsay? And we'll share, uh, in our show notes if you wanna learn a little bit more about Lindsay and her practices.[00:03:00] riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Oh, thanks.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Okay. So let's unpack problem solving, right Sarah?riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Okay, let's get to it. So, you know, problem solving is. It is very nuanced, obviously, depending on what we're dealing with. But in CBT, we wanna help simplify things and so one of those things is to create sort of a list of steps to take when inundated with a bunch of problems, right?You might be working on determining whether or not there is a problem, right? Are you sort of catastrophizing the situation? Are we maximizing, are we making a problem where there isn't one?But once we sort of work through all of the nitty gritty of our distortions and we realize there is a problem to be solved, then a good question is like, well, how do we do that? And so. First and foremost, we need to pick one problem and define it. And I think a lot of people have trouble really clearly defining the problem.They may say like, I'm stressed, or I'm overwhelmed, I have too much going on. Okay. And then we have to ask, [00:04:00] well, what specifically are you overwhelmed by? Right? Like, what are the problems that we're trying to solve? And someone may be able to clearly address it for themselves. They may be able to say like, okay, here's my problem.Let's solve it. Other times we need to ask questions. So I think the first step is, let's define the problem. Second step. And I think the hardest for a lot of people is generating solutions. A lot of times what we'll see someone comes up with an idea of a solution and then they're like, oh no, but that won't work. so what we wanna do is come up with a list of non-judgmental solutions, right? We wanna have no judgment when creating this list.And what I usually will suggest, suggest is like, let's come up with some bad ideas. Let's start with the bad ideas first to get them out of the way. And that way anything like later on will actually see like it seem like a good. Suggestion in comparison to the bad ideas we've already come up with. So we come up with a list of solutions and I really like paper and pencil.You know, we are working with a lot of young people, so probably we'll use our phones and our notepad or [00:05:00] whatever, but like really writing them down to have the visual. I. So we generate the solutions and then we have to go through each solution and assess the pros and cons of each solution. What are the strengths of this one?What are the weaknesses? Um, is this a realistic solution? Right? Is it a short-term or a long-term solution? Sometimes we don't have a long-term solution, but we can come up with a short, a short-term solution. Um, what are the obstacles that might get in the way, right? How hard is this solution to do, to implement?How likely is it to work? Um, how will, how might it affect other people? And is that something I need to take into account? So once you go through and you create your list of solutions, you can write your pros and cons down, then you pick the best one. And I think something that is important to, to point out to people is that there is no perfect solution, right?There's just the best of the bunch. And once we've then generated the bunch, we can pick the best because now we have some idea we're not looking for a perfect solution. 'cause there's usually not one. If there [00:06:00] were, you probably would've already done it.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Right.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Um, and so then once you pick the, the, the solution that you're going to implement, then you have to plan for it, right?So pick and plan. When are you gonna do this? Is this a solution that you implement at a specific day and time? Is it a solution that you're doing in response to a trigger? Like, you know, if someone is saying something, how do I respond? I, I don't know. I can't determine when I'm gonna do it, but here's when I'll do it in response to, and then do I have to do anything to prepare for implementation of that problem?Of that solution? Um, and then I think a big one is like, how will I remember to do it? So a lot of times you'll go through this with people and we'll come up with a solution and then they just forget. So do we need to put a reminder on your phone? Do we need to put a sticky note on your mirror? Like what are we doing to help you actually follow through with the solution?And then once you do all that, hopefully they, you know, do it. And then you can come back and say, okay, so did it work? [00:07:00] And if not, how can we tweak it? Or if it really didn't work. Okay, let's go back to the list. Let's try something else. And so there's those like five steps that I think if you sort of keep on your mind, it sort of takes the onus of responsibility of solving a problem, which feels like a big thing, and it makes it a little bit more bite sized.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Right.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: So that's what I go through.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: definitely, I think having those steps can be really huge. 'cause I've found a couple of things when, and you've mentioned some already, when people start to throw out ideas before they've really thought them through or it's like, no, it won't work. And I know for people who tend to be anxious, they're, they're pattern we know with problem solving is too.Come up with a lot of ideas, but to kind of throw them out really quickly and worry about them as in terms of outcome and people who might be prone to more depression just have trouble even generating any.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Mm-hmm.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: And so what I, I like about the pen and paper is that, or the finger on the phone, is that it allow, it kind of [00:08:00] tries to take out some of the head noise a little bit and makes it feel more structured so it can take something that is kind of emotionally overwhelming and say, really this is the how you go through this.It's not a simple process once you have to go through all those various questions and planning, but it also does make it a more simple. Solution-focused skill.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Right, and I think also putting it on paper and taking it out of their brain, it might help make it more objective so you can have a little bit more distance between all the emotions that are circulating in your body and then the actual problem and solutions on the paper.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: I just wanna say too, like when Lindsay's describing it, Lindsay, you, you, I'm like, oh my gosh. So lucky to like have Lindsay as a therapist or as a friend or that I wanna be clear that like when you were describing it, like these are things you can do independently, right?And they all riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: a skill that you wanna learn in therapy and then practice on your own. This isn't something you have to have someone else do with you.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Right, [00:09:00] right. Or if you're not in therapy, right. Thatthese are these, the whole point of us teaching you these kind of microdose episodes is that you really have a little bit of a template in terms ofhow to potentially approach problems or, I also think going through these steps maybe. Before you lean on your social support system to kind of even at some of the steps, maybe you need a friend or a parent or an advisor to help you brainstorm. Um, maybe you're going through the pros and cons and you're getting stuck on like which one to pick in terms of the solution that already kind of having a f work on how you're gonna approach a problem when you go to ask for help from other people will also. Usually help the other person more adequately help you.Right. And they might not be just responding to your emotions or, you know, some of the thinking patterns we can get into when we're really overwhelmed.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, none of. I was just gonna, sorry. I was just gonna say none of the, none of the steps that I was just describing are things that [00:10:00] like you probably wouldn't already think of. Right. It's just a matter of now having some for a framework to do, and it is a very like bite-sized skill that you can take from here and do on your own with the support of other people if you want that too.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Yeah, and we're gonna come up with a, an area to go through with you just for the, uh, the students listing. Think about like what does this look like in real life? But uh, you had mentioned sometimes putting on the bad idea. Uh, one time. One thing I'll often notice is that I'll say, okay, why don't we put down some of those solutions you're currently trying?And inevitably that might be like, I've avoided getting in touch with that professor and that I've noticed a person will say, no, but no, that shouldn't go on there 'cause that's a bad idea. And I'm like, well, it's obviously doing something for you 'cause you keep trying it. Right. So let's at least get to know why you keep trying it.You know, there's clearly a reason. If it didn't do anything for you, you wouldn't do it over and over again. So what is that solution offering you? But I've noticed a lot of times people will [00:11:00] kind of not even wanna go towards the solution they've already tried, and it's like, all right, well let's, let's explore that too.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: And it's possible that the solution that they've already tried might be like halfway there and we can tweak it a little bit. And then actually it could be the solution that we end up choosing to, to implement.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Yeah, and I think one of the things you mentioned that's gonna be relevant to this example will come up today is like, what kind of helpers or skills do you need to get to the solution that you want? Um, so we had an, on our previous episode had someone come and talk a lot about. Just getting out there and making connections with people over coffee or introducing yourself to people and making sure that those smaller bite sized.Conversations are often a great way to have some professional gain down the road, or at least some professional context. And this person, it was Mark Reed who's very, you know, enigmatic and confident. And so Liz and I were thinking like, what about the people who don't naturally have that instinct that this person [00:12:00] was born with, um, but who still want to be successful and make those connections?So we thought we'd pose it to you to say. You know, if you've listened to that episode or if you're somebody who is in the internship or job seeking market and you know that you need to put yourself out there and do some handshaking and setting up meetings, but there's perhaps social anxiety or you worry about, um, maybe sort of an imposter happening, how do you solve that problem?Right. The problem being in this instance, well, I don't know. You can, I guess go through it, right? So you need ariverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: yeah, let's, let's define it.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Yeah, so this person needs a jobriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: So tell me a little bit more about this person. Is it a senior in college? Are we, I need someriverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: at college and gettingriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: I can't just get anybody a job.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: I don't know. I really sold your skills, Lindsay, so,riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: come work for in her group practice. Um. So, yeah, this person needs a [00:13:00] job and they know they need to put themselves out there, but it's feeling really overwhelming and they don't know where to start. Um, they're, it's not their first instinct to self-advocate or to approach someone. About a, about a coffee date.And so they need a job. They know what they need to do, but they don't know quite how to do it. They're may be feeling anxious about it or less, um, again, sort of not feeling like, oh, I, I could never be good enough for this position or this company. So.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Okay, so I wanna also make sure we're making a little bit of a distinction between talking through cognitive distortions they may have about their ability to implement this problem. Or the solution or sort of some anxiety that might be getting in the way. It's sort of a different skill than the problem solving aspect of it because it is more sort of emotionally focused.So, but I would, I would first want to identify like, what is the problem here? So this person is, I assume, a senior in college thinking about getting a job for when they graduate [00:14:00] and, okay, so is the problem that they don't know what they wanna do or they want, they know what they wanna do and they don't know how to get there.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Well, and I, I should say, we do talk a lot in our podcast about hypothetical worry versus actual problems. So inriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Exactlyriverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: there's probably some hypothetical worry. There're gonna bomb this interview and so on and so forth. But I think also there's this situation of like, I've never written an email yet. On how to approach someone for a coffee date, like I don't have the skillset.That's necessary. It's a completely new skill for me 'cause I've never done it before. Um, and you know, I have also talked with people who've said, I have done it before. I've gone to office hours to ask this professor how to make a connection. But I started crying, so how do I not. Cry the next time I go because I'm so stressed about the job.So I think that the this, in this particular instance, I'm thinking of the person who was listening to that previous podcast saying like, okay, I don't know how to do what this person said. I don't know [00:15:00] how to get in touch with somebody. I don't know.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: okay, soriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: so let's have the problem. Let's define the problem as. Sarah is a senior in college and she really wants to get a job at, you know, she wants to be a psychologist, and in order to be a psychologist, she needs to do some research after school to get into grad school. Let's just make that the hypothetical problem, right?So how is she gonna even start to make connections to potentially interview for a job? Okay, that's our problem. So let's think of some really bad ideas solutions first. Any bad, bad ideas? What are you doing now? I guess let's, let's role play this. Senior. Senior, Sarah.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: my senior Sarah. Senior Sarah. Oh, we don't even have to role play. Let's just go back in my little Rolodex of memories, and I would probably put it off, right? Iriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: So you'd be avoiding it. That's ariverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: I would've avoided. Yeah. I would've been like, you know what? I would have some excuse for why I don't need to do it today or this week.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Okay. So solution [00:16:00] number one is just never do it and hope and pray that it falls into your lap.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Yes.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Okay, that's one. All right. Um, another one, maybe another bad one that's more active.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Um, maybe like blindly, like sending kind of like a form email, like asking for job opportunities within like the department. I don't know. I thinkriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Actually don't think that's so bad.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: okay. Okay.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: But that's fine. That's put it,riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Uh,riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: she's like, uh, sorry. I can't come up with any bad ideas. It's too good. Um, I think that could go on our list, so sending basically the same email to riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: email. It's like psychology departments just beinglike, do you need a research assistant?riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Okay.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Putting all your eggs in one basket, maybe being like, I really want this one particular job, so I'm only gonna go after that.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Yeah. Okay. That's one. Um, okay. Another, another one would be, um, maybe trying to find someone who's already [00:17:00] graduated in this role that you could ask, Hey, how did you go about doing this? Andriverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Mm-hmm.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: then maybe that person could give. Use some guidance senior Sarah on in terms of like how to proceed. So actually asking someone for help with this problem, because it's already, it's an, this is a problem that's already been solved before, right?By another person. So if you know that that's the case and you have access to a person who's been through this problem before and has solved it, ask them, that's a great idea. Okay.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: are we still in good ideas or badriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Oh, sorry. It's, it's hard to generate the bad ones. Okay. Another bad idea would be, um, uh,riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Ithink giving up sometimes, like thisis like where I'll see some people, they're like, you know what, maybe I just shouldn't even do this. You know? Like they'lllike choose a completely different career path, likeapplying for like administrative assistant positions that are not even in, 'cause they're like, [00:18:00] oh, this would just be easier than doing the thing that I wanna do.Yeah.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Yeah. So avoidance and giving up are, are bad ideas, right. That we could put on the solutions oriented. But I think another bad idea that, like I'm, I'm sort of trying to get the, the idea behind, like it would be going into your psychology department at your college and screaming at the top of your lungs, I need a job.Right? Like, that's not a great idea. It is a solution.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Yeah. Yeah. riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: love. riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: threats to people if they don't get me a job.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Threatening. Yeah. That's a, that's a solution. Okay. But like, do you see how we're sort of like really making a list, a very non-judgmental solution? So that way when Liz generates the idea of like sending an email to a psychology department, we're like, okay, that's actually not so bad.In comparisonriverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Right.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: toriverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: You forget a lot of people have chosen some really bad solutions to this. For sure. I was thinking another one would be giving up at a more subtle version of that is like just doing [00:19:00] something, you know, oh, mom or dad or so and so already has a job for me and. So it, it's not exactly what I want, but I, it's, it's a familiar place.I'll throw that on the list.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Okay. That's a good one. Um, let's, let's go with maybe some. Better. So solutions at this point. So I would say, okay, one idea would be, hey, everyone has access to chat GPT now. Like what about just putting into chat GPT, how can I write an email to a, um, psychology department that shows my experience and what I'm interested in doing?Okay. So because Sarah, you had said like, I don't even know how to write anriverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Mm-hmm.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: chat. GPT is a great way to start. I wouldn't, I usually wouldn't say to just cut and paste and send. That's not, that's a solution. That's not a great solution. Right. That's a good one. Just blindly put it into chat, GPT and send it.That's a solution. But maybe a better solution might be putting something into chat, GPT, [00:20:00] editing it down, maybe sending it to one person to look at, and then, and then, you know, obviously we can send that one off. Now a bigger question is also like. Who am I sending this to? Right? So how can you, how can you come up with a list of people that you're sending this to?Well, you're in a college, right? You're already in an academic institution. So the professors that you've actually had, it's a great place to start.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Mm-hmm.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: So we can start with that as being, I'm sort of like obviously doing this very succinctly, but maybe we go through a list of the pros and cons and what we've come, come to is like a solution here would be using chat GBT to help.Like hone in on what is it? What is it is that you're asking for in language that maybe you couldn't produce on your own, making it tailored to you and sending it to your advisor or sending it to a professor that you thought had like a softer side to them that might be able and willing to help.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Right. And the career centers often and most likely will [00:21:00] have some sort of alumni network who's already put themself voluntarily on the list to be contacted for things like this, whether it's a job opportunity or mentorship or question around, um, uh, a certain topic or job you're interested in. So that's another resource I think that.Is there that we could add to the solution in terms of just pulling in the context and the people you're gonna ask?riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Yeah. So, okay. Then we'll say, all right, senior Sarah, when can we send this email? Well, this is something, something that's sort of like, you can send it after you feel comfortable, or no, that's not a great solution because you might not ever feel comfortable. But let's say, let's have a, let's have a goal to send this by 3:00 PM tomorrow.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Mm-hmm.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Right. And then we'll sort of go through like is there any obstacles that might get in the way? What do you have the rest of today? Can you work on this today? Well, yes, I can work on the rest of today, but maybe I wanna send it to my mom to look over or something like that. She might not be able to get it back to me till the next day.Okay. So maybe in two days at 3:00 PM riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Right. riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: then riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: we would say, all right, how are you gonna [00:22:00] remember to do that? I love reminders, the Reminders app on my phone. I use it constantly all throughout my day and I think it's really great for something like this. It could have a reminder later to like, you know, start doing it and then it's remind tomorrow morning to send it to mom and then reminder at 2:00 PM Okay.Send this email now.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: I also think that especially if there's a kinda a social anxiety component or just feeling like, oh, I just have this dread to set yourself up and pair, kind of have someone else you say, all right, I need to do this thing. Um, come with me. Let's both go to, uh, you know, grab lunch. And while we're doing that, I get my annoying thing out of the way.You get your annoying thing out of the way, kind of like a, the same way when my gym partner almost like.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Like an accountability buddy.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: An accountability buddy, just to do that and then reward yourself afterwards with something fun. Once we get out of, you know, once we get out of the the dread place, we know that we're gonna be able to [00:23:00] go and really enjoy X, y, and Z activity.Without this in the back of our head, just that nigging sort of ugh. In the back ofriverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: And it feels productive to actually do something to solve a problem, right? We talk all the time with with people about unproductive worry and how it doesn't feel good because there's nothing that's actually coming from it because you're not working toward a solution or solving a problem. So, you know, I think you can also talk about, or we can talk about sort of how good this will feel once you actually take a step, even if it's not gonna work.At least it's something. And then we can always go back to the drawing boards, right? So what's the fifth step? The fifth is, is evaluate, right? So let's say you write this email, you send it to your advisor. Your advisor comes back with, Hey, I can't help you, but here's someone else you can. Okay, great. So now we have something else to work on.We can go back and tweak it. We can work on doing some more of the steps. We can always go back and redo the steps, but now at least you have some path forward.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Right. [00:24:00] I also think that what I love about how you set this up is the first problem to solve is writing the emails to set up the conversations. And then someone else might say, okay, but what do I do once the coffee is scheduled? It's like,riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: That's another problem.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: that problem once we're there. So a lot of times that worry.And where I think people confuse worry with problem solving is they'll worry about all the factors in a kind of in one big balloon as opposed to saying, let's solve this particular problem. 'cause the next one isn't actually a problem yet. You don't have the problem yet of having to go to that cafe or what you what have you, because that isn't a step that we're at yet.So we can put that, that's not productively a problem solving until that's actually a problem for now. That's ariverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: right. And we just don't have enough details about that problem yet in order to start solving it. So let's wait. It's not, you know, we're not procrastinating solving the problem that could happen. 10, 10 steps down the road. We're just waiting to [00:25:00] get more information so we can productively solve it.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: right.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Cool.So now you have a job. Congrats.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: I'm so.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: So fast.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Um, Lindsay, this was wonderful. Um, I, I, we will definitely have a visual that we will share around the steps in problem solving. There's so many examples that come up in college, and I'm sure we could sit here forever talking about how to implement, um, these skills.I, I really hope that people feel like more hopeful that they don't have to kind of.Jump to accepting something that's solvable, um, in terms of stressors in their life. And thank you for being on.riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: of course. Thank you for having me.riverside_college_is%20fine%20pod_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0002: Yeah, it was good to see you. I can't wait for us to be new best friends. You can solve all my problems.riverside_liz_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0003: Alright, byeLindsay. riverside_lindsay_tulchin_raw-video-cfr_interview_w_%20dr.%20li_0001: Okay, bye.[00:26:00] Thank you to our guests for sharing their stories and their advice. This podcast is for college students and we want input by college students, so please reach out by text, email, or voice memo. 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