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Compassion Fatigue in Healthcare: Burnout, Trauma & Losing Your Spark · Banter At The Bedside

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can't be like, hey, I think you got compassion fatigue.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: Hi everyone, welcome back to banter at the bedside.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: We are here today to learn and talk about compassion fatigue and how that shows up in healthcare.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: As always, let's go over our disclaimers.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is for entertainment purposes only.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: All of our thoughts and opinions are our own.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: We don't represent any entity at all.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Please seek the care of your own medical professional.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is not medical advice.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: Entertainment only.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: We're here to make you laugh so we don't cry.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: As always, I'm Abby.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a nurse practitioner of eight years, and I'm one of your main co-hosts.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm joined here with Kaylee, a nurse of a cardiac ICU nurse of 17 years.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everybody, welcome back.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: We have Cody, another returning co-host who is a nurse of an ICU nurse of how many years?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: 12?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: 11.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: 11.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: 11 years of ICU experience from Cody.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: And he has been a traveler and held multiple roles, including management.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then we have our returning chaplain, chaplain Linda, not your average chaplain joining us.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: She has been a chaplain for 13 years, specializing in emergency medicine and trauma medicine.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: She is also known for educating on topics like she did previous previously with us, that the pause, as well as compassion fatigue.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're so excited to have her here today to educate us again.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome everyone.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, welcome.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back, Linda.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: We're so excited to have you.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: We got such good feedback.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you had told us that compassion fatigue was another topic that you educated on.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought I would just toss the mic over to you to educate us once more on compass on this topic.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much, you guys, for inviting me back.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: I had such a wonderful time last time.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: And the topics that we've been talking about are very important to me.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: Staff care is incredibly important to me.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I've been studying and researching and reading up on compassion fatigue since I did my residency way back in the day.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: So um I think my residency directors would be sure would be surprised that I'm actually teaching it and now doing a podcast about it.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why would they be surprised?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know that I didn't know a lot of the differences between fatigue and burnout and the similarities and differences.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: And they kept telling me I was wrong.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know why.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: But so because of that, I actually made it a priority to continue learning it and learning from it and being able to research as part of my role as a clinically trained chaplains.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: So now I'm just pretty proud of that path.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: When we're told no, that's almost the bigger motivator, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: So that helped me.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the same.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: But as far as I don't know, I can't relate.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, not you at all.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: You mean I can't do that?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Fine.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: I can't lift that.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: I don't like you don't like hearing no, or you do like hearing no?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just think it's a great motivator.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: But yes, I'm here for compassion fatigue.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: And basically, and I say basically, it as mentioned before, it it can be a muddy topic, but compassion fatigue is a prolonged exposure to ongoing traumas that are not directly connected to us as individuals.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like the traumas do not happen to us as healthcare workers, um, but we are exposed to the suffering of our patients and the families.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_04: And we hear their stories over and over again that there's this prolonged exposure from what we experience by hearing their stories, that we start to take on those feelings.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: Compassion fatigue deals with it, it will come up suddenly to us, the symptoms and everything, but the the fatigue will actually, from my experience, will actually kind of be, because of the prolonged exposure, will kind of be underlying everything.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: And you, as providers and as nurses, depending on what your specialty is, like you said, I'm in trauma and emergency.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: If you're in, if you're in heart cardiac care, it could be pro it could be the regular exposure to cardiac arrest, to heart issues, or in pediatrics, it could be abuse or or domestic situations.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: And trauma, I also work in trauma, so it can be from car crashes or or gun violence or just fill in the blank.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, so all the different areas that are specialties in the hospital, we are exposed to them over and over again and start to hear those stories that we start to blend in with those stories.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: And it will impact us.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: There's an impact to us emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually, psychologically, that you don't realize it.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: You're still doing your work, but but little signs might start to show up.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um you might not realize that those signs are showing up until all of a sudden one day you're you're just uh not feeling who you are.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Not you're still working and you're still doing your job, but the the empathy starts to decline a little bit.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: Your spark, I like to spark is a word for me that I use because that little jolt that that helps you to do the care that you do that called you into this work, that starts to kind of decline a little bit.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: And your friends, your colleagues might even notice it that you're starting to kind of pull back or become isolated.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_04: You you start to have sleepless nights.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: You your clarity is a little off.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: And different things that your body might respond to, or the clarity and decision making, your physical being, you might not go to the gym as much, or you're too tired from the exhaustion of the exposure that you just all you can do is come home and crash on the couch or um on the bed.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes that's great if it starts to continue on when you're used to like going to the gym every day, or are very social and doing things, and you just start to kind of feeling blah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: Those are some things that people might pick up on.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I've experienced it where people picked up on it before the actual individual did.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: But the compassion fatigue, you've got the word compassion and you've got the word fatigue.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: And the the compassion that we have as healthcare workers starts to become so tired from giving that compassion over and over and over again because we're experiencing what we see and what we hear in the patients and their families that we get so tired from it, but we're called to continue to do it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: We're we're we're not really giving the hundred percent that we're known to give.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if that even made the water muddier, but that's um, but it's it's just that prolonged piece of hearing the stories over and over that you start to feel like you're taking in their trauma as well.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think that made it clearer for me because we we do experience so much trauma.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I went we witness so much in our careers.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I always tell people, you know, the first the first thing that we're taught as kids is the golden rule, right?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Treat others the way you want to be treated.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then you hear us in the ICU, anywhere in the hospital, really saying, uh, don't do that to me though.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, don't, don't you ever put me on that machine.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Don't you ever do those chest compressions to me.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so to me, it's like we we experience this trauma because we're always doing to others what none of us would, you know, really want done to ourselves for whatever reason, values or what we see or any of that.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: But you explaining it's the repeated, it's the same story, I think is what kind of clears it up.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because there are certain ones that seem to stick more than others.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: And if I probably sat back, it is probably that same, that same cardiac arrest story, that same bad heart attack story where they didn't get to the hospital in time, as opposed to the one-off stories.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think the one-off stories we can write off.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I I think that made it clearer to me, at least.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: And you hit on a good point, Abby, is there are cases that will stick with you that I have not found a perfect rhyme or reason behind which cases do.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: Your personal history might have a lot to do with what impacts you.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um like when I did, I'll tell you, when I did my residency, I did at the same hospital where my dad died of a heart attack.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so I did not want to, we got rotations, we went to the different services.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so I told my directors say, Don't put me in the heart center right now, don't put me over in the cardiac.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: But that's exactly where they put me because I needed to work.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, of course.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I needed to work through that.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, I didn't know a whole lot about what I would be doing later in life, but your personal history could be an impact.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: And that opportunity gave me a chance to kind of work through some of that stuff.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: But the cases that you're talking about that stick with you can be because it might relate to a previous patient and family, or that that individual with their family connected to something in your life.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, my father looks just like this, or or hey, they they look, they they act just like my uncle does, or my cousin died of the same almost exact things.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: Those pieces will stick to you if you don't recognize it in advance and know how to kind of work through that, and they'll stick to you, and then the next one starts piling on.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so recognizing those by those cases, you'll be shocked, like I am, sometimes about oh, why is that sticking with me all of a sudden?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_04: And but as you continue on and gain that experience, you'll you start to learn to see that ahead of time before it gets too stuck.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like the crashing in bed might have resonated with Cody over there because I saw Make a Face.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's my baseline though.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, that's not normal.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: No, if it's your baseline, that is fine.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: I don't do it at all.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: Mine is the couch and watching TV.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Couch, bed, recliner.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is this like is this sort of something that goes like hand in hand with like burnout?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like we hear a lot more about burnout and compassion fatigue.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's sort of like a buzzword phrase going around now.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's always been there, but now there's like this specific name to it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like it's getting talked about more because what you're describing to me sounds like you know, burnout from just like taking care of people for so long.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a very good point, Kaylee.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: The um burnout and compassionate fatigue, burnout I is a part and can be a part of compassionate.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: Burnout to me is like a uh gasoline that can help fuel the compassionate tag.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll um I'll get into the differences, but I really if you go back and look through research and you start searching compassionate in the PubMed, all the articles, you'll see a huge increase of research since COVID.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I it it was happening before COVID, but it wasn't until COVID where and I'm speaking to the choir, and I know we've y'all have talked about COVID before, but it wasn't until then that the impact became so real and so nationally recognized, world recognized of what we do and and what had the impact within the hospitals.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: That's when you started to see it as that buzzword.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I think COVID gave it that that spotlight, unfortunately, or fortunately, however you want to look at it, because now there's more attention to it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: And there's been burnout.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there between the turnover um rate of staff, of nurses, or providers, doctors since then, I think is a part of that experience, a part of that why there's a lot more research.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: Burnout is a part of it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: The funny thing about burnout is that burnout is not related to anything of a traumatic experience.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: Or it might be to us employees, and you'll hear you'll understand why in just a second.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_04: Burnout is actually connected to your work environment.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: Burnout is connected to the acuity of care that you're getting, the turnover that you're having to pick up extra ships because there's a lot of turnover that you're short staffed.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's connected to if you don't have a support, if you don't have the support in place from your leadership, or if there's like a values difference between who you are and what you do and what your leadership says and does.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: And if there's tension within within your service line or anything, it's it's directly connected to the work environment, which unfortunately we don't have control of.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: The biggest difference is that burnout is based on the environment itself and has nothing to do with the trauma that we see on a regular basis.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: But they do have some similar symptoms and burnout will contribute to the compassion fatigue.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're lucky enough to just kind of get both of them going at the same time.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: Does that explain it a little bit more?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it did for me.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it did for me.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: I guess for me, what's how it's making sense is that if it's more burnout, I could still maybe leave my unit or switch teams or whatever and go somewhere else and still have the compassion and not the signs because I've changed that environment.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: I've changed kind of those outside factors.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas with compassion fatigue, that might be if I go from just one cardiac ICU to another, I'm probably going to continue to experience the same feeling because what is triggering it is the same then.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's just different management.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: Is that a good kind of way of putting it?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: That is a very good way of putting it.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: And and the idea that we can't change the burnout piece of it, we can't change the work environment, but we can control how we respond or how we react or how we might have to make the changes ourselves, like you're saying, going to another service on or another unit.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas from the traumatic side of things, the the compassion exposure, you're gonna get it no matter which cardiac ICU you go to.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: So no, I think that's a perfect relation to it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: I do always there was one book I read and they defined burnout to how he described burnout was or what caused it, wanting things to change and not being able to make the changes that you're like the hamster running on the wheel.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's from knowing change needs to be made, but it continues to not happen, and that's what burns people out.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess that you've kind of put it into a healthcare perspective now for me.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: I really didn't think there was that much of a distinction, but it makes sense.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: So when when my husband says he's burned out, I I can now say, Okay, yeah, I guess you are burned out too.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: You don't you just don't have compassion fatigue like I do.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've been like he's like, I'm burned out, and I've been like, uh oh, from what?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: From what?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: From what?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: From coding all day, from sitting down all day, sitting in a computer all night.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I guess he is burnt out.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that that is a good good point because he can get burnt out in other occupations.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you can have compassion fatigue, I would imagine, not just healthcare workers.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think if you're a caregiver in any way, and like I would think like therapists, pastors, yes, parents.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you're providing like some sort of care, like where people are depending on you or you know, you're hearing things, I would imagine like you could get that easily.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, very much so.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that there's a lot of support groups out there for those who are caregivers, or we're starting to see more and more because you see those individuals kind of like what I tell families when their loved one who's a patient, I'm like, hey, this is your chance to take a break.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: This is your chance to go home.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then they won't, which is fine.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's their heart, and that's that that's I'm here to take care of them.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_04: But you're right, it can hit the therapist and and the caregivers and all those different lists of the compassion that they give on a regular basis.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_04: And here on this side for us, there are resources and there are ways that one of the things I do, and I mentioned it earlier, is that I work with all of our new nurses who are in orientation, and I come in during their orientation time and talk to them about this.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Are they going to remember everything?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: No, absolutely not, because you guys are well aware of the of how much information is given in orientation.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: But just to introduce it to them so that they can start to be aware of some of the symptoms that might be coming up and that that they might start feeling or what they experience on the units from other staff and to let them know what resources we have at at the hospital where I work and resources that they can, things that they can do on their own that can help them when they start to realize.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I tell them I say, You're going to experience it.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: You care.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: You're in this profession because you care and you have that compassion.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so there are going to be times that you do experience it.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: And what I do in that orientation time is kind of give them some of the tools and some of the flags of if you start to experience this or you start to have these kind of symptoms, doesn't necessarily mean you're dealing with the compassionate, but just it could be just normal orientation and getting ready to go off orientation.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: But as you continue to progress, the different resources that you're provided and your own experience of, uh, I'm starting to feel this way.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe let me just watch what I'm doing and see what I need to do for my own care.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in the research, do they have anything in there as far as like when this is most likely to show up?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's say if you are a new grad, like, does it say anything about like it usually shows up between like two and three years, or does it give a timeline for when it's hits most people the hardest?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: That's a very good question.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: I don't remember there being a timeline per se.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: I just I remember that I I do see that new nurses will leave sooner than like veteran nurses.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Again, the generation maybe that there might be an impact that they just didn't realize as they were doing nursing school.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: But as far as time factor of when, I'm gonna have to go back and look that up again.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: But um, it I've seen it in veteran nurses.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen it, it's just that constant exposure.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're not quite there of understanding what it is, and if you don't have the support system in place, then it the impact can be huge.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um after hearing you describe the differences, I'm just trying to think back.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like in my nursing career, I experienced burnout way before I experienced compassion fatigue.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I because I mean, just like you said, if if if you're working in this environment, like you're just it's so tough and it's like high octane all the time and you're working three and four shifts a week, like you're just tired.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not that I I don't think it was like compassion fatigue.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't feel like um I couldn't have empathy and like identify with the patients anymore, but I did feel like I don't know if I can do this, you know, like how am I supposed to keep going and then a little time off and you know, you feel better.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I also feel like both of them kind of wax and wane, like depending on the seasons of life maybe that you're in, like you said you're going through.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I was just curious because I think it took me a while probably to experience that, but not as long to experience the burnout.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm wondering if that's what like the experience is for new grads these days.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: That makes perfect sense.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: You could for I mean you're going from nursing school and you probably had school before that, and you go to nursing school and and then bam, all of a sudden you're in this high pressure position and trying to learn everything and and impress everybody as well as impress yourself and and and then the reality of the healthcare work kind of hit you on that burnout piece.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: No, that makes perfect sense.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't agree with what Kaylee was just saying.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I've experienced more burnout than compassion fatigue.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I, as morbid as this probably sounds, I genuinely enjoy the kind of environment we work at work we work in.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I more so experienced burnout when I was in my management position and didn't have any support from my my manager.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: But compassion fatigue, I don't I'm trying to think of when I've like experienced it or like if I even didn't even notice I was going through it.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but burnout I've I can see how they they go they go side by side, but I've more so had burnout over compassion fatigue.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: I like how she said they lost their spark.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's just a perfect way, I think, to describe what happens.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you you kind of just are not even like in tune with what what you were when you started, like my attitudes and thoughts, like I'm gonna be saving people's lives.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be like doing a service for the community.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you just can't even identify with that anymore 'cause it's just like nobody cares.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna take their meds and you know, they're just gonna do what they want and or you know, they they are gonna do everything right and then they're still gonna die anyways.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just right.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think for me, probably it resonates most when I was a neuro.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, probably what contributed to me becoming a nurse practitioner, because I probably thought I think I thought that I was just kind of done and was seeking a way out.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: And the older I get, the more I reflect that I just probably at this point now hearing you probably just had compassion fatigue because there's I'm a firm believer there's fates worse than death.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I saw so much of it in Neuro and all these young car accident um victims that were permanently paralyzed, never waking up.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the a big issue in neuro with neuropatients is that externally they look fine after a certain point.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Externally, they look like they're sleeping.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like someone with a heart attack where it's like they're sweating and they're pale or bleeding out, and they they're pale and they're like they look bad.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like so many neuropatients look okay.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's harder for families.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then on top of that, when they have something neuro, most of the time their other organs are fine.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, I mean, it's it's the most important, it's what makes us us, but it makes it harder for families.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're not in multi-system organ failure.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: You just got one organ that's not working, and so we would have all these young people, Trake, Peg, because the families were just torn.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I understood that, but it was just constant, constant.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time I was like, Oh, I'm going to become a provider and I can do more and be a part of these conversations.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm like, I think I was probably just seeking a way out.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe if I switch, switch specialties, I probably maybe I wouldn't be a nurse practitioner.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love what I do now, and I love you know the people I've met and the journey I've been on.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was clearly meant to be, but it is looking back with older eyes.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Yeah, it was just that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so you you gave us a definition, you told us like some things, but what are there like top red flags that people should look for that would alert them that they or somebody else is that's what they're going through specifically?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_04: You'll start to feel this exhaustion, you'll have this anxiety or this worry about not being able to do everything right.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I even say imperfectly, because we can't do it all perfectly, but I'm just you're starting to make small little mistakes, not thinking clearly.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_04: You'll start to one big thing is that your body will start to tell you something, whether whether it's that you're getting headaches now, you can't sleep, you're having diffic digestive dis difficulty and just feeling sore in different places.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: There's actually there's a lot of connection between the mind and the body and the gut.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I see you laughing.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_04: I disagree with it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: I agree with it a hundred percent.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um those under those are all symptoms.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: The your behavior starts to be a little bit different.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_04: And and like I mentioned earlier, your colleagues or your friends might notice it before you do.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: And and I've had that happen where like, well, I'll clean up the word.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: I've had friends say, Why are you being so irritable?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: And normally I'm not irritable.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's coming, it's coming more and more often, but that's not the fatigue thing.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's just uh it's just it's a reality of what I can and can't control.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, th those are some of the symptoms that show up, but the body will be a big flag for you if you if you start to notice those kind of symptoms that aren't normal for you.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Not the headaches, not not the headaches that have headaches and tummy problems.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, all the you know, it's like you got one or the other.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is anybody out there not having one or the other most of the time?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you're you've said, and you might not have an answer to it.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: I might be unfair thinking that you might because you're a chaplain and I'm putting you on a pedestal, but oh please don't you're just so calm.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: I love talking to you.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: But if you if you are noticing this, how in your friends and your coworkers, how do you approach it?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how do you how do you think you should approach it or how should we approach it?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if I'm going to Kaylee and being like, like, I can't be like, hey bitch, I think you got compassion fatigue.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think you could.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, with you, I could.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm probably with that too.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: With those with y'all's connections.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're right.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: You might get the same response back, but you might get the you'd be like, ain't that the pa calling the kettle black?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: No, and that's the I mean that we're laughing about it, but that that's actually more true than than we realize is that you have those people who who you can trust to be honest with you.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: And who you could say, like what you said, hey, what the hell's going on with you?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: What is wrong with you?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what's bothering you?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: For me, and I can go to and I might be you might be able to relate to this, but there's a lot of times after a code event or after a really bad situation that's happened that I'll go and check on the staff and I'll say, Hey, hey, how are you, how are you doing?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, Oh, oh, I'm good.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: I'm good.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: And that's usually what I get before I've really developed relationships with the staff.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: But then I start to say, No, really, how are you doing?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_04: Because this is going on, this is what's happening.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_04: And that, and I'm just, I wanted to check on you.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: I had a doctor once many years ago, um, who after traumatic events, I would go and check on him and say, you know, how are things going?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: And the same response, I'm good.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then I started doing that as we continued on in our roles and everything.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: He's he goes, Why do you keep asking me?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, because I care, because there's a lot that we see.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, We're just not people, we're not used to people asking us.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: But for for the providers, for the nurses, for the staff, it's recognizing that you've got people within your group, like the three of y'all who know each other, who who have been in the trenches, who can say, you can be that honest person and say, hey, what's what's going on?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: Are things okay?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just seeing some differences, be different behavior in you.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think it's those kind of individuals that you can be honest with.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: And and I mean, using the example of you, you and Kaylee, I mean, and yes, we were laughing about it, but that you might have been the aha moment for Kaylee in that moment of saying, no, I didn't realize that I didn't realize that was that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: And other new other new people may not approach her in that way.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, I'm not gonna talk Kaylee.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_04: She's being a hmm.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: She's all they probably wouldn't.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I try not to be.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that's a c a cue though, a clue.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, obviously we are people.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think that yes, people need to remember that healthcare workers are people too.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're not robots and we have thoughts and feelings and we have things going on.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we talk about this all the time.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's we, I think, hold ourselves to this high standard and the public holds us to this higher standard.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: I get it to a degree, but we're all gonna have bad days.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I might not show up the best that I can for my patients every single day, but I'm gonna give them a hundred percent of what I have for that day.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: That being said, I I don't think I've ever been rude to a patient or rude to a family member.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if somebody saw that happening, I hope that they would be like, Hey, that's not usually how you act, or that was, you know, it seemed kind of rude.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is something going on?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Are you okay?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: I hope somebody would, because I mean, like, if I'm doing that, something is probably wrong.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like most people I work with, like, even if you're not close, you can kind of tell their demeanor for the most part, you know.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, I I kind of approach it with like how I would with my kids, where it's like, hey, you don't have to tell me anything if you don't want to.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just noticed that you seemed a little sad or down.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here if you want to talk.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything going on?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, or if not, you know, maybe you could talk to somebody else.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes people just don't even want to talk about it, but they just want somebody to notice that something is going on.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that you know, we just need to be not so afraid to like approach people.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's not I'm not trying, I'm not trying to get like information out of you.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to check and make sure you're okay.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if you need to talk to somebody, you can be me if you want it to.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: And and that's good because I've had it to where I'll say that and they'll say, you know, I'm good and good, but later, whether it's that shift or another day, they might come back and say, Hey, you know, thanks for checking on me the other night.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I really appreciate that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_04: And and may open up a little bit then, but just having that little moment of, hey, like you said, you know, we see you and let us know if we can do anything.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: What what are we supposed to do?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Or what can people do?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, like using your resources, maybe you're gonna talk to somebody, see a therapist, use your you know, EAP if you have it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: But what are what are things that we can do to get ourselves out of that if it's happening?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: There there are a lot of things that that can happen.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you've listed off several of them already.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: We've got good resources in the hospital with EAP, with um different symptom uh systems that we have, set up different hospitals, larger trauma centers, especially.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_04: We'll have the wellness centers that you can go to and check in with.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: You might have your therapist that you can go check in with who knows you and that who can be somebody you can talk to.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you might have that close friend that you can talk to.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: You also there are different things, some big things that can be done is to set your boundaries and to be sure that when you're all when you are having a rough time, recognize it yourself and see, okay, what do I need to do?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: What have I done differently lately?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: All right, I need to be sure I I get a break, or I need to be sure, if at all possible, to take my lunch time, to leave when I need to leave.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have to pick up that extra shift.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, different things that can help.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_04: You are your own voice.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: And you're the we we talk about being sure that we have self-care and that we take care of one another.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: And but you're the only one who's going to be that voice to be sure that you do take care of you.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: So do in the moment, there's another buzzword that's been going around a lot lately.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm actually an advocate for it, some mindfulness moments, including like even just counting for run through a cycle of deep breathing and just to settle yourself down, or whether it's just to take a minute to step back and just scan your body from head to toe to see how you're feeling and say, okay, just go up from your feet to your head, and that may that gets you back into the present moment.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_04: And we tease about mindfulness, but we do it with our patients.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: We do it with our parents, our children.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, how many times have you have you said to the to the patient or to your children that hey, just take a deep breath, you're okay, settle down, focus on me for a minute.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: You're you're in a safe space.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: Or that's mindfulness that we're encouraging our own children to do.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: Where if that's and that's just one minute to just kind of get you refocused back in.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: So you already have that in the back of your mind.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so this happened today.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I have a previous professor or counselor who would who would say, okay, what's this really about, Linda?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so if um, if my if I start to notice that my body is acting funny, and usually it's a mind gut thing for me.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: And if those symptoms start showing up, that's my flag of saying, okay, so it's either to be sure I'm watching what I eat or to get out and walk.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: If it's too, if you had a rough shift before you go back home, because we all have things going on in our homes, before you get to the your home, take a minute to disconnect from your work and your home.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_04: If you're if they don't notice that you're in your driveway, settle down for a few minutes before you get in the house.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: I call it declutter, where get into a mindset of when you swipe out and when you take your scrubs off at home, that everything that happened goes with those.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: And those different things, if you're an introvert like me, journaling, writing about it, doing those different things, or for me, I like artwork.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: I like to draw and it clears my mind, those different things that you can do and just start recognizing what might be appearing and and and stop it before.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you guys something personal real quick.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_04: I think I mentioned before, I'm actually in the middle of it right now.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_04: I I work in trauma and emergency services, so I see a lot of gun violence and I see the results of those of that gun violence.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: And we had a lot that were very, very young people.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_04: I work in the adult world, but we had some teenagers that came in like four in one week, and and two died in one day.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's getting more and more that that's happening.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I started recognizing that when I say that for compassion fatigue, that it might show up abruptly.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_04: One of the one of the individuals had died in the OR, and we had to go tell family, which ended up being about 30 people.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: The next week, another gunshot wound came in and he went to the OR.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I started becoming very anxious, going, please, please, please, please, nothing go wrong in the OR, please, nothing go wrong.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that was my aha moment of okay, this is supposed to be normal for me.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it was based on what happened two weeks before with those younger ones.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: So something else we can do as far as boundaries is I don't watch the news anymore.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: I don't look at the news.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: I've taken them off my social media because that will be a huge trigger as well.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I want to get on my soapbox for one second.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: I have to say something.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: These are all different things that we can do on our um things that we can do at work and things that we can do outside of work.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but there's also more research that's coming out.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: And in fact, I I read it recently in the National Academy for Medicine and Nursing about the future of nursing that makes it very clear the sole res the responsibility of your self-care does not rely solely on you, that your organization needs to be a part of that process and that they need to take responsibility in their systems and looking at their policies to be sure that there's appropriate staffing, to be sure that you're that the expectations of of us as healthcare workers are actually reachable and and not overdoing it.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_04: We focus very much in the different hospitals that we're at about patient safety and patient satisfaction.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, there's also staff satisfaction and staff support, which having these different things that are happening to us and impact those very numbers that that we focus on.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: So this conversation and conversations another that I do with the new nurses, I say, yes, we have responsibility for our own care, to be sure, but there is an organizational responsibility to to look at that.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: So that was just my own little soapbox that I needed to share.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think there's organizational responsibility.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's why there's the chief wellness officers that are becoming extremely normal across systems, and it's not wellness of patients.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's what everyone else does.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's supposed to be wellness for the staff, and that's it's becoming more and more popular, and I think that's great.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's also, as I say on here a lot, I think as providers, we're the leader at the bedside, and I think it's on every leader of every team in every situation to check on your staff constantly.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: I've been since our last talk, I've been really trying to debrief.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: I have not thankfully had an opportunity to do the pause as much as I've wanted to, but I mean, it means I have not had any guests.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: I tried and everybody was just gone.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like what?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a movie.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: I turned out, I was like, poof, and there was like just the nurse whose patient was left.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you want to take like a minute and just be quiet and have a I think I said have a pause and she didn't.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: But adapted, and I think that this conversation has inspired me to continue to adapt and be that leader at the bedside, and I think that that's it's on the organization, it's on individuals, but it's on our team, and healthcare is a team sport.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess someone be saying to Kaylee, hey bitch, I guess you're you got some compassion fatigue.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: I got all sorts of fatigue, okay?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you name it, honey, I got it.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's a great point that you put up.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think so much well in this conversations about you can do this and you can do that, and you can do this, and it's like you, but what about the we?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Where are we in this together?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: So and and that's I would love it if the organizations would take more ownership, but like play their part, yeah, their role.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_04: To have leadership in place, like like Abby and Cody, maybe when you were a manager to have those moments to where you are also trained to recognize that or you are learning more about it that you can see and you can be that advocate for your staff too, and be and we talked about it before with the pause, it might have to come from the leadership to have that kind of impact too.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_04: But no, I think all of that's very much to have that training that you can recognize it too for your team.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: I appreciate that.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think this has been so helpful.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think you you kind of said you don't think you've experienced compassion fatigue?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think that you see it enough?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've experienced compassion fatigue and frustration with like you've pulled a patient off a death's door and then you see them back because they're non-compliant.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: But like I don't know about compassion fatigue.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: I also have since I have since some personal stuff about my family and all that, I've had a being on the other side of it has changed my whole aspect of my profession.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of made me a little bit more compassionate because it's very different being on the other side.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's a side I don't wish upon anyone.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: But also I think that Cody does the things that Linda suggested.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you start like he already does those things that you would do to help yourself, like I don't think he stays, as far as I know, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not like staying on social media all the time, you're not watching the news all the time.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: When you're not at work, like you're you are resting, you are recovering, or you're hanging out with your friends or doing whatever it is you want to do.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think that Cody already has like his self-care down.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe that helps so he's not so fatigued from things because he's already got the like that um routine in place.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: I will also say hanging out with Cody, we don't talk about work like when we're not at work or doing this podcast.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: And they think that's a larger conversation we maybe need to have a whole episode on.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: But they think healthcare workers sometimes that's all we talk about.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like you are then just like sometimes you need to get it out, but then if me and you were both in the same room, I'm just wondering, and we keep ruminating on it.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a sign of compassion fatigue?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Are we contributing to it because we keep re-traumatizing each other talking about it as opposed to like this is a cathartic get it out?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, because a lot of it's well, what if we did this and what if they did that, and what about that, and what about that, as opposed to like, I felt really sad by that loss, and I just I feel sad.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I think I've noticed that, and I've made a point when I hang out with healthcare people that we're we're not talking about work.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like we can touch on it for a second, but if we're going out, we're going out and we're going there you go.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: Talk about real housewives.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I love that idea.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: I love that very much.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_04: And then you can you can have your moments of okay, should I have done this differently or whatever?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: But another thing that Kaylee to go with, what we can do is to give yourself grace and understanding and then saying, okay, all right, now let's go have some fun.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: When you said scan your body from head to toe, I was like, that thing's gonna light up like a damn or whatever the the thing at the airport.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: What is it called?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the body scanner thing-ray machine, it's just gonna be like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, pam.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: That hurts, that hurts.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: But that's just you know, age.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Could be age.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Abby.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I guess it's age.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Being in nursing 17 years.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: Now that's a whole another topic about emotions and irritability that will happen later in life.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a whole nother topic that's not related to healthcare.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: I know for like burnout, they say, like, oh, for every year burned out, you it's like seven years of like recovery.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's not The actual statistic.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know it off the top of my head.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: But do you know with compassion fatigue, you know, as you said it can come on suddenly, is there like a known recovery time from it?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Or does it kind of just you do some of the things and you recover just as quickly?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: I think as you continue in in your experience and gain more experience, you'll learn the practices to kind of um fight it off before it gets too much.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_04: And like the experience I gave, I I learned from previous from my younger chaplain y days of how to approach that and what do I need to what do I need to do so you can kind of block it off at the pass and and know what to do ahead of time and do that.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_04: The other thing is it's remembering what was the analogy I had.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's not to use to use something that I know you will understand.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: It's not sometimes it's not as simple as giving antibiotics and it clearing up in 10 days and you'll be fine.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes it's going to take time like um a marathon and like the examples that they were saying about you, Cody, about what you already have in place.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's gonna take time in order to do that marathon.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: You've got to train for it.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: And it's gonna be training of five miles this week, next week it's seven miles, and to build up that resilience and that training and to do the to build up the strength.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't want to say muscle memory, but to to already have that that strength and that spirit in place to when you do have a bad time, that you don't lose your spark and that you'll know what to do to help it to heal.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then when you have those moments, go back to what what brings you that joy while you're in that role.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_04: And that helps to to remember and to focus on those moments.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_04: So that all can kind of help to slow it down and to heal from it quicker than you would probably seven probably when you're at year two of your profession.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_04: You're doing a lot better now.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_04: Does that make sense?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: No, it does.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it it is a marathon.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm too top heavy for marathons.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, I'm not much of a runner, but I can do a long walk.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: A nice stroll.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: A stroll.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe we can have Cody teach us how he sets those boundaries because if he doesn't want to get up, he's not he's not coming out.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I think I have to do a wellness check on Cody.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, if you don't hear me.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to make sure that you're okay.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Has anyone heard from Cody?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know, but at first I was like, is he okay?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is he okay?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: I got 151 unread text messages right now.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: How does that not give you anxiety?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's not as high.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's the highest it's been is like 300.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my goodness.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: I just glitched.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: The podcast last week, Cody don't care.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: To be so unpothered.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_04: There you go.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's it.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: Cody don't care.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Cody ain't coming in.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Cody ain't answering.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Another reason we gotta kidnap him and test his blood.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: He's already immune to COVID.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: What else you got?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_04: Let me tell you.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: My goodness.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: And and there's something that's it right there.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: There's something to remember too.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Remember what we have control of and remember what we don't have control of.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I say that knowing I have to practice it all the time.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, I've told my therapist, I'm so tired of working on myself.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so tired.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_04: I want to get to the Cody don't care phase.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: But Cody cares so much about his patients.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: He's just uh these other things, like 300 and 350 unread text messages.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't care.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: It does not phase him.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let somebody label my Ivy tubing wrong.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: But oh Cody cares.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: Cody cares now.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Cody cares.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: He snatched that pen from me one night so quick when I was just trying to help.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, okay.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, no.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, okay, I'll just stand here.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Look pretty.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this has been again so educational, Linda.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Just to close this out, what do you think is one small practice that people listening that might be experiencing compassion fatigue could start doing today?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_04: Going back to something I said a couple of minutes ago, remember why you went into this profession.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: And even if you have just a bad day that's not related to the fatigue at all, if it's just a rough day, remember that person who thanked you.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: Remember how you survived the day or your shift and to give yourself grace about it, reminding all of us that we are human.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes we we do need to recognize what goes on, but just don't let that spark go away.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: And when it does, just remember what got it there to begin with and start with that.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_04: That's great.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: That's perfect advice.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: Any final thoughts from anyone else?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is as always been very educational, Linda.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for coming back and educating us.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure we'll see you again in the future.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: Just remember, everyone out there listening, this is part of what Banter at the Bedside is all about.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: Building community.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're here to listen to you too.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: We're here to support each other.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: So send us a message at our website, Banter at the Bedside.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: Give us a follow, like, comment, share your own stories.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: We're here to listen.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: We want to hear and we want to help all healthcare workers feel empowered and filled with compassion here.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: So from all of us shift talkers here at Banter at the Bedside, till next time.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: Bye bye.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: If this felt your kind of conversation, make sure you're following, leave us a review, and we'll see you back here soon.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Step into the light where the stories come.