Latest / BOB DOLE : 1995 Clinton's Comeback / Episode 457 BOB DOLE The Life That Brought Him There (Part 38) The Bush Years 1989 to 1992 (C) The ADA, 1990 Budget Deal, and the end of the Bush Administration (Season Finale)

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Episode 457 BOB DOLE The Life That Brought Him There (Part 38) The Bush Years 1989 to 1992 (C) The ADA, 1990 Budget Deal, and the end of the Bush Administration (Season Finale) · BOB DOLE : 1995 Clinton's Comeback

• 0:26
  We continue to remember the life of President George H.W.
• 0:29
  Bush.
• 0:29
  Mr.
• 0:30
  Bush's service dog, Sully, visited his former owner in the Capitol Rotunda alongside Americans who benefited from the Americans with Disabilities Act signed by President Bush back in 1990.
• 0:41
  Now that act protects their civil rights to get an education, to work, and to function freely in society.
• 0:47
  CBS 4's Kenneth Craig introduces us to one woman whose life was changed by the law.
• 0:54
  Judy Human has made it her life's mission to fight for the rights of disabled Americans like herself.
• 1:02
  Which is why she'll never forget July 26th, 1990, the day President George H.W.
• 1:08
  Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act.
• 1:12
  The law bans discrimination based on disability and requires certain public physical accommodations.
• 1:35
  Her activism to eliminate discrimination against people with disabilities spans decades.
• 2:06
  Tuesday, disabled Americans paid their respects to Mr.
• 2:09
  Bush, who at the end of his own life used a wheelchair.
• 2:12
  The President's service dog Sully joined them in the Capitol Rotunda.
• 2:17
  I think he was not embarrassed or ashamed about having a disability himself.
• 2:29
  Kenneth Craig, CBS News, Capitol Hill.
• 2:33
  Longtime Republican Senator Bob Dole passed away this Sunday at the age of 98.
• 2:38
  He's now being remembered for many accomplishments in his life.
• 2:42
  But his most notable could be how he helped push through legislation to help public school children and those with disabilities.
• 2:49
  Paul Dudley tells us more.
• 2:52
  Bob Dole's right arm was paralyzed in combat just before the end of World War II.
• 2:57
  Decades later, the experience would be instrumental in inspiring Dole to help pass the Americans with Disabilities Act.
• 3:03
  After his combat injury in World War II, people treated him as less than a person, and that opened his eyes to this to the disabled experience.
• 3:10
  Mark Raymond is with the Split Second Foundation.
• 3:13
  Their mission is to break barriers for people with disabilities.
• 3:16
  Raymond became a quadruplegic after a diving accident in 2016.
• 3:20
  He says people with disabilities see the fruits of Dole's efforts every day.
• 4:12
  Political analysts say Dole's legacy will be his ability to work with members of both parties to get important laws like these passed.
• 4:27
  Raymond calls Dole a hero, but the battle for equality for Americans with disabilities is still not over.
• 4:33
  Bob Dole was a barrier breaker, and it's our job to continue that fight and making sure we're expanding opportunities for people with disabilities.
• 4:40
  Paul Dudley, Eyewitness News.
• 5:17
  I think if it had been absolutely common knowledge, it would have been very difficult to elect him.
• 5:24
  The country just simply didn't perceive Roosevelt as being handicapped.
• 5:35
  And they would look and they just would not see what they were seeing.
• 5:42
  People wanted him to be president, he wanted to be president.
• 5:45
  There was this this little matter of being crippled in the way.
• 6:31
  So the car would come into the stadiums, drive up on the ramp, and then the president, still seated, would address the public.
• 6:40
  They had the braces painted black, uh, even though they were shiny steel.
• 6:46
  Uh he wore black shoes, black socks, black trousers, black trousers cut long, uh so that the braces all but disappeared if you weren't looking closely.
• 6:59
  Most of the pictures you see of him, he's either standing up, and if you look carefully, he's holding on to somebody's arm, or he's sitting in a chair.
• 7:09
  Very few pictures of him in a wheelchair.
• 7:13
  This was not exactly a conspiracy, but it was a conspiracy of consent between photographers and the White House, something that could never exist today.
• 7:29
  It is more than a contest between two parties.
• 7:33
  It is a contest between two philosophies of government.
• 7:40
  Presidential campaigns are now featured on newsreels.
• 7:45
  A national leader's image is more important than ever before.
• 7:54
  Roosevelt appears to be an energetic candidate.
• 7:58
  But actually, he has something to hide.
• 8:08
  Eleven years earlier, at the age of 39, Roosevelt contracted polio, which left his legs partially paralyzed.
• 8:21
  He fears people won't vote for him if they know the truth about his condition.
• 8:32
  At Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C., Senator's pitcher Jimmy Deshaun captures this very rare footage of FDR walking with his leg braces.
• 8:55
  Ultimately, FDR comes to an agreement with the press.
• 8:58
  No photos of him walking or getting in and out of cars.
• 9:05
  This footage shows the security details signaling for the cameras to cut as FDR prepares to leave his car.
• 9:14
  Welcome everybody.
• 9:15
  This is Randall Wallace, your host for our podcast.
• 9:17
  And I know you're probably wondering what has Franklin Roosevelt got to do with the Americans with Disability Act that was passed in the 1990s.
• 9:25
  And what he has to do with it is that, of course, Franklin Roosevelt was our only handicapped president.
• 9:31
  And Roosevelt and the country was uniquely fortunate to have this man show up when he did.
• 9:40
  But also that the technology of the era was what it was at the time.
• 9:52
  The President having to get out and and uh be seen everywhere.
• 9:58
  Which was, you know, these film meetings and everything that had been in the past in the past of the way that things had had been done.
• 10:05
  Um you you didn't have to do this time because we had radio.
• 10:09
  And radio, of course, was a way for President Roosevelt to talk to the public without actually being seen, and so you you just have this sort of willful look the other way when it comes to newsreels and the little bit of video that's out there or film that's out there, uh, and you're able to hide this handicap.
• 10:31
  And that is this unique place and time that Franklin Roosevelt occupies and allows him to rise up out of his hospital bed from polio and have this career that he has, uh, to be governor of New York and then president of the United States.
• 10:47
  Uh and the country you can argue about some of the social parts of the New Deal, but his leadership in World War II places his among the top four presidents in American history alongside Washington, Lincoln, and Nixon.
• 11:00
  And that's extraordinary.
• 11:03
  What's changed today is that we have a governor in Texas who's in a wheelchair, and everybody knows it.
• 11:09
  Um, and that I think is a changing of the times the way people think.
• 11:14
  But in a lot of ways, it's because of the Americans with Disabilities Act that George H.
• 11:19
  W.
• 11:20
  Bush signed in a law and that he led on, and that Bob Dole and Tom Harkin and uh Congressman Cuelo and a list of people worked on, but Bob Dole was a leader in this because he had a disability.
• 11:34
  Just like Tom Harkin had a brother that was deaf, Bob Dole had lost the use of his right arm, most of the use of his left arm, or his left hand was somewhat paralyzed.
• 11:45
  Um people remember he carried that pen in his hand so that people wouldn't shake it um or attempt to grab it, you know.
• 11:52
  And uh there are a lot of stories that you're gonna hear as we go through the rest of our series about the fact that he was disabled, that Bob Dohl was disabled.
• 12:01
  Uh and so he's a leader on on this issue.
• 12:05
  And the world's changed.
• 12:08
  Today Franklin Roosevelt, which you just journalists might not have to hide his disabilities the way he had to do in 1932 to 1945.
• 12:17
  And that's you know, in on a big scale something different.
• 12:22
  But just think of everywhere you go when you see a ramp to get uh on the sidewalk, or uh, you know, the the ramp and the elevator to get into a building.
• 12:32
  This was Bob Dole's work to to even the playing field for people with disabilities, it is one of largely sometimes not thought of, but a huge civil rights bill.
• 12:44
  And uh and Bob Dole, who supported, by the way, all civil rights bills all through the sixties, when it might not have always been popular on his side of the aisle.
• 12:52
  Bob Dole supported them all, and here he is the leader of this one.
• 12:56
  Um I think it it it speaks volumes, you know.
• 12:59
  I I hold him in pretty high esteem.
• 13:01
  Uh but this is one of the big acts of his time in Congress, of which he should be enormously proud of the leadership that he brought to the table.
• 13:11
  Presumably something like the Americans with Disabilities Act meant a lot.
• 13:15
  Oh, yeah.
• 13:17
  Well that had he worked.
• 13:20
  And where was the opposition to that?
• 13:22
  Was it from the business community?
• 13:24
  Oh, sure.
• 13:25
  Not only from the business community, but from the social conservatives who said, you know, what are you doing, you know, to the business place and what is government doing?
• 13:36
  The same people who come in and keep you from playing poker on the internet with the people, right?
• 13:43
  Here they are, the social conservatives, they say, no, you can't play poker on the internet.
• 13:48
  Now, I admit I'm a lobbyist for the poker players alliance and a chairman over there.
• 13:54
  But can you m you imagine the hypocrisy?
• 13:58
  On one hand, you're gonna say that we should not be uh legislating in the business place to give people who have disadvantages an opportunity so they should won't be discriminated against.
• 14:10
  And the other, I come into my house.
• 14:12
  I don't even have many kids who live in my house and say we can't play uh poke on the internet because by the way, it may the big thing is it may uh get kids to be playing, huh?
• 14:25
  Well, I don't have any kids in my house.
• 14:27
  Uh Americans with Disabilities Act.
• 14:30
  That was certainly something that he was well known for.
• 14:33
  He understood it.
• 14:34
  He cared a great deal about it from his own personal experiences, the challenges that people face, and the fact that the federal government really didn't have a program uh a predictable level of support for people in need of services and uh health care and other support.
• 14:54
  Um but he he clearly was a was a leader in that.
• 14:59
  I was on the agriculture committee with him, and so I saw him more on a day-to-day basis there.
• 15:05
  But because of that committee's jurisdiction over nutrition and uh the food stamp program and other uh uh uh food and nutrition assistance programs, uh he is well known with George McGovern.
• 15:21
  They would work closely together together and uh make sure that our committee would report out legislation on those subjects.
• 15:30
  He expanded some of our feeding programs worldwide too.
• 15:34
  This was another initiative that he had.
• 15:37
  And of course, people say, well, he's doing that to help the farmers.
• 15:40
  You know, Kansas is a farm state.
• 15:42
  The more wheat you can grow and sell and make into foodstuffs, uh, the better off those farmers are going to be.
• 15:48
  How do the government buy their products and and ship them overseas?
• 15:54
  So the you know, the so-called Food for Peace programs, these programs always had a strong leader in Bob Dolan.
• 16:01
  And he he cared about it deeply, not just because he was from the farm state, but uh I think he really was a very sympathetic person for those who were who were not well nourished, who were having a hard time staying alive.
• 16:15
  Uh he wanted to be helpful.
• 16:16
  He thought uh our country was strong enough, wealthy enough, we ought to be able to make a difference.
• 16:20
  And we did.
• 16:21
  And it was through the legislation in many cases that he had helped write or wrote himself and uh got passed in the Senate and worked with the House to get it enacted into law.
• 16:33
  I think that's called a win-win situation.
• 16:35
  That is that was a win-win situation.
• 16:39
  Um let's let's go uh back to ADA for a moment.
• 16:44
  Was there any significant opposition to that uh in the Senate?
• 16:48
  I don't recall any real formidable opposition to it.
• 16:51
  And there were some who thought, well, maybe it cost too much.
• 16:54
  There you go, whether it was a fellow who always looked at bills very critically, whether it wasn't wasteful spending, he would uh he would argue against it, but I don't recall his opposition to that specifically.
• 17:10
  And uh but there were other senators.
• 17:12
  Sometimes Jesse Helms sort of took the lead in in guarding the treasury and and speaking against programs.
• 17:20
  A lot of people thought he was not sympathetic to poor people or to uh people who were African Americans.
• 17:26
  He had a reputation of being kind of a tough-minded conservative, but he was doing what he thought was right too.
• 17:33
  And the the genius of Bob Dole was he could work with Jesse Helms, who was on the agriculture committee, and they could work together and find common ground on these issues and and uh move forward.
• 17:45
  Um so it was surprising to some people that that Bob Dole could get along with these other strong personalities and people who had different views philosophically, maybe on what government the government role ought to be, and still work out a compromise and get something done in the end.
• 18:02
  To see the real impact of Senator Dole's legacy and the ADA, we came here to Alpa Point, where more than half of the employees are visually impaired or blind.
• 18:13
  Everywhere there's a light in the ceiling, we know there is uh that's a walkway.
• 18:19
  Um I shoreline here.
• 18:21
  Cheryl Rayburn had just started to lose her vision in 1990 when Kansas Senator Bob Dole helped reach across the aisle to pass the Americans with Disabilities Act.
• 18:29
  When you think about um somebody who's in a wheelchair and they come to a building, a doctor's office, or, you know, um a retail shop, and there's no ramp, they cannot access where they need to get.
• 18:43
  This prohibited discrimination in public places, in universities, in restaurants, and really was a game changer in terms of how Americans looked at uh discriminations.
• 18:57
  But for Rayburn, Alpha Point's donor development and community relations manager, ADA isn't just about getting around.
• 19:03
  But companies making sure employees with disabilities have the tools and technology they need to do their jobs.
• 19:09
  My keyboard has uh little bumps on it.
• 19:12
  That's because I can't see this keyboard, but I use these tactile features in Alpha Point's manufacturing plant, not being able to see hasn't prevented employees from turning out plastics and micromolded components for many industries.
• 19:25
  I can't do it, has never been part of my vocabulary.
• 19:29
  Nor was it for Senator Bob Dole to turn his war injuries into not a disability, but the ability to see life in a new perspective.
• 19:37
  There's still work to be done in the field of equal access and equal opportunity, but we've come a long way.
• 19:44
  And I can't even imagine if the Americans with Disability Act had not passed, uh, where would we be where we would be today?
• 19:53
  And they say they hope that legacy of access and inclusiveness carries on, just giving people a chance to do the work they know they can do.
• 20:03
  David DeMarco, Fox 4, working for you.
• 20:06
  What were the challenges in uh passing uh the ADA?
• 20:11
  Well, again, we had a lot of lot of conversation with the White House, but we had a guy named Boyden Gray in the White House who's very sympathetic.
• 20:20
  Really, if you don't know Boyden Gray, you really missed something.
• 20:23
  Because he was uh really a friend of people with disabilities.
• 20:28
  Uh you know, strong on civil rights, all that stuff.
• 20:33
  So he was kind of our go-to guy in the White House.
• 20:37
  Uh others, you know, the old story that's the government interfering, da-da-da, telling people they gotta make the place accessible and gotta so we try to use the terms reasonable and cost, and we didn't try to load it up.
• 20:54
  Uh I assume a lot of that came from the business community.
• 20:58
  Yeah.
• 20:58
  Opposition.
• 20:59
  Yeah, uh through the White House, you know, that the constituency.
• 21:03
  But uh, you know, Bush brags about it now, President Bush 41.
• 21:08
  And it was a great day.
• 21:09
  There were probably 3,000 people out there in wheelchairs and gurneys and white canes and uh and uh what uh what's it his name?
• 21:18
  Uh one of the leading disability advocates wore this hat.
• 21:23
  Came from very wealthy family.
• 21:25
  He just passed away.
• 21:26
  But anyway, he was up on the podium with Bush and and uh that's quite a day.
• 21:32
  Well, I assume there's another side to this too, because I assume there are those among the advocates, disability advocates who wanted perfection.
• 21:39
  Oh, they well, they're not happy now.
• 21:41
  In fact, they've you know they want to they want to do a lot of things the bill.
• 21:46
  Some should be done.
• 21:47
  I've been working with Tom Harkin uh trying to be helpful without conflicts to the law firm.
• 21:53
  But uh you know, some people just can't satisfy.
• 21:58
  And uh I don't care what party or who you are, but it's very important legislation.
• 22:10
  Remember standing on the Supreme Court steps with him one day after a uh uh hearing on the case of the case on the American Disabilities Act.
• 22:21
  And after we came out, we were both shaking our heads that Some of the statements made by the Supreme Court justices and what they were saying and what we had done.
• 22:33
  And we couldn't believe that they were going off in the direction they were going on.
• 22:39
  There have been some decisions undermining the Americans with Disabilities Act, and both Dole and I have been active in trying to do it.
• 22:45
  And as we speak right now, we have an Americans with Disabilities Act Restoration Act, an ADA Restoration Act, to restore the ADA back to what we had it, what we intended.
• 22:56
  The Supreme Court has through several decisions, mostly five to four decisions, eroded what it we intended to do in the ADA to it to the posit to the point now where and I don't know if you want me to get into this, but but we have a situation now where because of Supreme Court decisions, if you have a disability and you use an assistive device, glasses or hearing aids or uh or you take medicine for diabetes to control diabetes or something like that, if you do that uh if you take that and you have an assistive device, that could make you qualified for a job.
• 23:43
  But if you do, then you're not covered by the ADA.
• 23:47
  Which means that if you have a disability and you take medicine to control it, that makes you qualified, you can get the job.
• 23:53
  But once you get the job, and if the employer finds out that you have diabetes, then you say, well, uh uh they don't have to give you a reasonable accommodation, or they can fire you, and you have no recourse under the ADA because you use an assisted device.
• 24:10
  We specifically in the ADA, in the now in the law, you know, you can't put every every little thing in the law, so you have report language that tells you what we intended to do, and we said in the report language very explicitly that simply because you use an assisted device or take medicine to control or to help you get through a disability, in no way takes it away from the fact that you are disabled.
• 24:34
  The Supreme Court just ignored that.
• 24:36
  And Dole and I were over there, and we're sitting in the front row listening to this, and we walked out and scratching our heads about this.
• 24:46
  And so now we have this ADA Restoration Act, and of course, you as you might expect, Dole was in the forefront working with us to try to get this bill passed to get the American Displays Act to where we had initially intended it to be.
• 25:02
  So I think uh 50 years from now, uh I think people look back and say, you know, even when he left the Senate, Dole was still fighting for some good things.
• 25:11
  I don't know who counts the number of disabled.
• 25:13
  I mean, I think that's probably the serious disabled, probably what, fifteen, twenty million.
• 25:18
  If you count them all, they're forty-five, fifty million people with some disability.
• 25:22
  Well, some disabilities don't bother people, but uh but if you're in a wheelchair or you're blind, or you're you know, paralysis got some internal thing that may not show, yeah, you've got problems.
• 25:37
  So it's bipartisan legislation too.
• 25:41
  The American Disabilities Act passed in nineteen in July of 1991, and it has made a huge impact on the country.
• 25:50
  And Bob Dole, until his final days, worked on improving that act along with Senator Tom Harkin, and uh and and they've changed America in that respect.
• 26:00
  And it is, I think, a tremendous piece of civil rights legislation that's made a difference for millions of Americans that people a lot of times don't think about.
• 26:09
  And uh and I think that's a great accomplishment on Bob Dolph's part, and of course, it's also one on George H.
• 26:15
  W.
• 26:16
  Bush's part, and Bush really embraces this and work to get it past.
• 26:20
  And so uh here are two guys who are kind of intertwined their entire careers, and here when one has clearly been elected president, the other one is his later in the Senate, and people thought that because of the competition the two of them had been in, really, for a couple of ten to twelve years.
• 26:36
  It would not be a partnership that would work.
• 26:43
  Uh in the uh 1989-1992 time frame.
• 26:48
  One of the things that did happen though is the thing that was more than anything else.
• 27:06
  Right.
• 27:07
  It wasn't the President Bush having to go back on his uh pledge of no new taxes.
• 27:15
  And this is an interesting story that you're gonna hear about the divisions in the Republican Party that are just at this point beginning to emerge that we've seen in the latter part of the 90s after 1996 and into the 2000s that I think of.
• 27:32
  And, you know, I don't I do not hold the leadership we have today the same thing that I do with the Bob Noles and the George Bushes and the Ronald Reagans.
• 27:42
  Uh and and this is the beginning of of that f friction and that fracture in our leadership in this country.
• 27:50
  I mean, what was that period like?
• 27:53
  Let me tell you, that was that was I think Bob's greatest uh frustration and disappointment because he was part of the Andrews Air Base crew that were putting together the package.
• 28:05
  And of course, everything was hanging with the horrible you know, sword of no read my lips.
• 28:14
  And finally D'Menichy and Dole and other thoughtful people on both sides of the aisle, both sides in the Senate, said, Look, Bush is ready to crack a bit on that.
• 28:26
  And the reason is because we're gonna get structural reform of the budget, two-year budgeting or four instead of two.
• 28:33
  We're gonna get rid of this and that, and that's the package.
• 28:37
  And Dole would keep coming back to us, and there were guys in our party who said, I can't do that.
• 28:42
  This will be the end of us all.
• 28:44
  And Dole said, Yeah, it will be the end of America if we don't get a handle on this damn budget.
• 28:48
  So Dole would come back and he would express very carefully all the negotiations that were going on at Andrews.
• 28:57
  And finally he said, Guys, I need your help.
• 28:59
  And the president needs your help, because if we can do this and do it in the House, we can blunt the business of no new taxes, we can blunt that.
• 29:09
  Well, I think that vote was 60, 60 something, 63 or something to 30.
• 29:16
  And it went to the House.
• 29:18
  And if you really want to piss people off, which I do many occasions, go look at the roll call vote at the House.
• 29:27
  Well, they stuck it to George Bush.
• 29:31
  There were right-wing Republicans and left-wing Democrats that just punched his lights out vote by vote.
• 29:38
  Newt Gingrich, Henry Waxman, you know, Bam, you know, all of them.
• 29:44
  Just it's an amazing vote.
• 29:46
  I brought that up one night in front of the Heritage Society or something, and there was gagging and choking and puking and uh, you know, nausea.
• 29:57
  And uh I said, you can't come in here and say that.
• 30:00
  I said, I just did.
• 30:01
  Go look at the roll call vote and see who screwed George Bush and lost him the election.
• 30:08
  Democrats, easy, they loved it.
• 30:10
  Pete Stark, the rest of them were just grinning from ear to ear.
• 30:14
  Well, then they went back and did another package.
• 30:18
  And in the new package, we lost all the structural reform, all the new budgeting, all the stuff Dimenech he had fought for and Dole had fought for.
• 30:25
  That was the most frustrating.
• 30:27
  I I never saw Dole, you know, any more frustrated than than that, to get the trust of the Senate and watch it go to the House and watch uh, you know, Army and Newt and all the rest of these noble Republicans just killed the greatest structural reform we could have done in the budget.
• 30:49
  But I never saw uh Bob Cry about it.
• 30:52
  He just he just couldn't understand it.
• 30:54
  And uh and of course uh did you understand Newt?
• 30:58
  That raises uh this logic question because there clearly is this accelerating process uh where the party is moving further and further to the right, um both socially, culturally, but also it's basically become the new orthodoxy that deficits don't matter.
• 31:18
  What about the 90 budget deal?
• 31:21
  Because that had to have been I mean, first of all, Don Reagan Well no the the 90 with the uh yeah, well yeah, Don Regan would have been uh No, no, no.
• 31:32
  No, he wasn't no he wouldn't he wasn't at the White House yet.
• 31:34
  Yeah, that's right.
• 31:35
  Um I guess it was Nick Brady was Secretary of the Treasury, but but you basically was Bush going back on his word on the read my whips.
• 31:44
  Oh, in my oh yeah, read my lips, yeah.
• 31:46
  Gingrich uh I think they shot down the first deal, and then there was a a second deal, which I've heard described as worse than the first deal, but uh in terms of spending controls.
• 31:57
  But I mean if there ever had been a time when you were entitled to say I told yourself, that would have been it.
• 32:03
  Yeah.
• 32:04
  But if that I was trying to tell the White House, because I was working with uh I think Tom Foley and uh Ross and Kowski trying to work out something else that didn't look like a tax increase.
• 32:14
  And uh, you know, I really it was about midnight as I remember, and they're still talking to whoever it was at the White House, I don't remember who the core logos or whoever, but I still think we can make a better deal here.
• 32:28
  I don't remember precisely what it was, but they kind of gave up.
• 32:32
  And you know, Bush said, well, he had no choice.
• 32:36
  Democrats ran the place, and what are you gonna do?
• 32:39
  I gotta have the money.
• 32:42
  So it it was the he's probably right, too.
• 32:45
  But they they they weren't gonna give it to him without a tax increase.
• 32:49
  And but he probably never should have said that.
• 32:54
  Read my lips, you know.
• 32:56
  Isn't that a classic case where consultants get you in trouble?
• 33:00
  I mean, the the people who run campaigns should be as kept as far away from governing as as possible.
• 33:08
  Yeah, probably right.
• 33:10
  And uh we're sitting in this campaign.
• 33:13
  But uh and and Bush probably had his fingers crossed when he said it.
• 33:20
  You know, I mean, who knows what's gonna happen.
• 33:22
  Say you've got some big conflict and you've got to have money and you gotta you gotta raise because I got in a big dispute in New Hampshire about not signing the tax pledge, you know, with Grover Norquist, who I think now is under scrutiny and should be.
• 33:39
  The budget bill passed in November of 1990, and uh and it had the tax increase in it, and of course that laid the seeds for the election that that would come in nineteen ninety-two that eventually George H.
• 33:52
  W.
• 33:53
  Bush would lose.
• 33:53
  He'd had this tough challenge from Pat Buchanan, and uh and it and it just it just weakened him to the point that he was in in the tough trace going into it against Milton, who is arguably seen in our ninety two series because you're gonna find that in our ninety ninety three series is the most formidable campaigner that the country's ever produced.
• 34:18
  If you're gonna run president by their campaign ability, he's gonna be number one every time.
• 34:23
  I mean the guy was just an amazing campaigner.
• 34:26
  And uh and I don't know that Bush George H.
• 34:30
  Bush ever really realized how formidable a campaigner Bill Clinton really was until it was too late, which we're gonna hear him talk about here because we're gonna kinda wrap up now the Bush years and and hear from Bob Dole his perspective of the Bush presidency and you know Dole's own role in government as we move back into our timeline and get ready for the end of 1995 heading in to the presidential campaign of 1996.
• 35:02
  If you look back, I mean enough time's gone by now that i it's funny when I look at the first Bush presidency, contrary to the populism at the time, there's actually more of a domestic record there than than than even he in some ways he couldn't take credit for it because taking credit for clean air or clean water would rile the conservatives that he had to placate because they never thought he was one of them.
• 35:25
  He was in some ways, you know, hog tied.
• 35:29
  Um because he was Reagan's successor.
• 35:32
  And people were always looking for deviations from Reagan.
• 35:35
  I mean, it was a very awkward but people always forget Reagan's early record and all this stuff about how we're gonna of course he just blames it on Congress.
• 35:45
  Nobody believed it for every cut dollar we cut taxes, we're gonna cut spending one dollar.
• 35:49
  Well, it never happened.
• 35:50
  But who do you blame Congress?
• 35:53
  And why was his guy up there scuttling the budget?
• 35:57
  Don Regan.
• 35:58
  And uh but you know, he Reagan had that well, you know, he'd done the piece.
• 36:05
  I've seen most most of them.
• 36:08
  The um did you one had the sense that Bush was increasingly isolated, I mean, after the Gulf War, that it took a long time for that White House to wake up to the political dangers that they were in.
• 36:22
  I mean, did he squandered?
• 36:24
  He was up to what, 92 percent approval rating?
• 36:26
  Yeah, and it's went down to 30 or something.
• 36:29
  And he got nothing for it.
• 36:31
  Nothing on the domestic front, political front, it just evaporated.
• 36:37
  They didn't use it.
• 36:39
  Did did you try to I wasn't in a position to do anything that I remember, but uh boy, to think I think it was 92 percent.
• 36:47
  It was not probably not accurate, but it was way up there.
• 36:52
  And you know, you had the world by the tail.
• 36:54
  I mean, this guy was it.
• 36:57
  And Congress was ready to respond.
• 36:59
  I mean, you know, victory.
• 37:02
  We actually did something and finished it with very few casualties, what, a hundred and yeah, something.
• 37:09
  So I I don't know, again, you had Senunu there and others, and they're sort of sitting on their lead, which which you don't do.
• 37:19
  There's also ironically the sense that you can only now look back at sea.
• 37:24
  The Cold War was over, and that united conservatives.
• 37:28
  So you wasped your unifying enemy, and there was a sense that Bush's historical mission had been performed, that he had done what he had very, very skillfully managed the end of the Cold War.
• 37:39
  That's no small thing.
• 37:40
  Well, the the one thing got him in trouble was the economy, which as we all know, you know, did pick up the last quarter, which he didn't get credit for.
• 37:49
  And that's you know what was Clinton economy stupid because Bush had a good record, as you said.
• 37:56
  But when the economy's bad, Nixon's always right.
• 37:59
  It's always bread and butter.
• 38:00
  You know, I remember that letter I had, seven-page letter from Nixon.
• 38:04
  If the economy's good, you'll lose.
• 38:05
  That's what it said, in effect.
• 38:07
  And it was.
• 38:08
  Uh, but uh I think that was the big and there's some people thought he did he didn't really want it.
• 38:18
  Remember that talk about this guy.
• 38:20
  Does he really want to be uh re-elected?
• 38:22
  He doesn't act like it, doesn't have the fire in his belly.
• 38:25
  Well, I never saw that.
• 38:26
  I mean, I thought he was uh working hard.
• 38:29
  Uh no, we became very good friends.
• 38:34
  I remember going down there in uh was it 92 and I was thinking about not running again.
• 38:43
  And went down to talk to him and he said, Well, let's let's talk about this, you know.
• 38:48
  Let's no, I said, No, you you know, you're still a young guy, la la la la.
• 38:55
  I think was it 92?
• 38:57
  I guess it was.
• 38:57
  Yeah.
• 38:58
  And you ought to do it.
• 39:00
  And what made you think about not running again?
• 39:04
  Uh well, the prostate cancer.
• 39:08
  And you know, you I didn't know at the time that, you know, if you get it early and all that stuff.
• 39:15
  Sure.
• 39:17
  Survival rates excellent.
• 39:21
  So was that.
• 39:22
  Well after I had had that, uh that's when I went out and talked to the president about maybe it's time for me to move on.
• 39:30
  He said, no, no, it's not time.
• 39:32
  What would you have done?
• 39:33
  You must have thought about alternatives.
• 39:35
  What what would you uh I can't imagine you I mean I still find it hard to believe you walk three years later.
• 39:42
  Okay, Trent Ladd, you know.
• 39:49
  I don't know, I don't think I'd really thought about what I was gonna do, but it see ninety-two uh well, I'd still be young enough to kick around a little.
• 40:01
  Sixty-eight, right?
• 40:03
  But see, that's interesting because that that at least suggests that you know you didn't have this absolute need to be president.
• 40:12
  I mean that ninety-six was kind of a I always thought eighty-eight was the year.
• 40:15
  96 I probably shouldn't have been running.
• 40:18
  If you look back on it, and this all of the stuff is well as Bob Dole's turn.
• 40:23
  I never did understand that, but uh uh I should have won an 88.
• 40:29
  I mean that's that was the year.
• 40:33
  But the other thing, you never saw Bob Dole's the inner self, the emotion, the man when he would get choked up and um Yeah, I saw him when he was very emotional when when Bush lost the presidential.
• 40:49
  No one took that loss harder than than Bob Dole.
• 40:54
  He really uh wanted the president uh to win and to be successful.
• 40:59
  He took he took that very very, very hard.
• 41:03
  I remember after he lost in 92, I invited him.
• 41:07
  I said, we want to you know honor you in the Senate, my colleagues, and uh this is only a few days after he lost.
• 41:15
  And he uh when he went got back that night, he wrote me a personal note saying I didn't r really want to come.
• 41:24
  You've seen the note probably.
• 41:26
  I I don't, but that's a problem.
• 41:27
  Yeah, uh I didn't really want to come, but I'm you know so happy I did, and thank you and all all your colleagues, and that that's the kind of person you was.
• 41:35
  Well, and in fact, I remember seeing the video of that.
• 41:37
  I mean, it was a pretty emotional.
• 41:39
  I mean, you were you the both the two of you got very emotional.
• 41:42
  Yeah.
• 41:43
  Which again, I I guess my my logic question is, was there not on your part, but I wonder, was there on their part a concern at the beginning of the Bush presidency about how loyal uh uh leader you were going to be?
• 41:58
  Oh, that was speculation.
• 41:59
  You know, you could hear about Bob Dole, what he's gonna try to torpedo Bush, and but then the John Tar th came th thing came along about that time, and and of course Tarr was a very good friend of mine.
• 42:12
  Philosophically, is Dole comfortable with that kind of I mean, what does he think government's role ought to be?
• 42:19
  Safety net.
• 42:20
  I mean, I really do think he thinks that government's role ought to be helping those who cannot help themselves, uh in a broad array, whether it's in food or whether it's in health, uh, whether it's in education, um, that people ought to have access to care, people ought not um uh be wanting for drugs or for the services that they need, that there ought to be personal responsibility involved in that, and that it is the government's role to sort of fill in that safety net.
• 42:48
  Now, i he would debate how one does that, whether it's tax credits or something else.
• 42:53
  But at the end of the day, I think Dole is somebody who fundamentally believes people ought to have access to care and ought to have uh the peace of mind that that access and support provides, and that the government ought to provide some kind of a safety net to allow that to exist.
• 43:09
  Were you surprised at all, given the fact the 88 race was pretty bitter?
• 43:13
  Uh and very personal.
• 43:15
  I mean, first of all, were you aware the day that he confronted the vice president of the floor of the Senate?
• 43:20
  Remember about Elizabeth's uh blind trust or whatever?
• 43:24
  Yes.
• 43:24
  Remember that day?
• 43:25
  Uh uh vaguely.
• 43:27
  Vaguely.
• 43:28
  It was not pretty.
• 43:29
  Was he just frustrated or um angry.
• 43:34
  Yeah.
• 43:35
  Yeah.
• 43:37
  I almost wondered how much because I because there's a sequel that I get to, that is a very different relationship.
• 43:44
  But you you you you have to wonder if I mean, notwithstanding the Saturday Night Live skits, which I don't know if he saw it, if he enjoyed or laughed about, but yeah, I don't know.
• 43:56
  But but there has to be a kind of class awareness.
• 44:02
  Dole never got anything handed to him.
• 44:05
  Right.
• 44:06
  And and that included in his political career.
• 44:08
  No question he took and to fight for everything.
• 44:11
  No question.
• 44:11
  And and the vice president because he's vice president, right, you know, was in a very different role.
• 44:17
  Right.
• 44:17
  Right.
• 44:18
  Um and going back to the R and C days.
• 44:20
  Right.
• 44:20
  I mean so there has to be this long history.
• 44:24
  Yeah.
• 44:25
  Of a certain yeah.
• 44:26
  And you wonder whether it all sort of changed over the yeah.
• 44:28
  I'm sure that's part of it.
• 44:29
  Yeah, and you know, and he's also uh I mean, I think that's true.
• 44:33
  And I think Dole's always been uncomfortable with that sort of m mega wealth and sort of entitlement that comes with uh great wealth and and background and I think always a little uncomfortable around it.
• 44:48
  Um but he's also remarkably protective of Elizabeth.
• 44:51
  I mean, really remarkably protective of Elizabeth.
• 44:55
  Um, you know, very patient, very go along, get along, but you know, there's a point at which he snaps.
• 45:03
  Yeah.
• 45:03
  But of course, and then the sequel, however, I mean, which I don't know whether anyone could have predicted, although I think knowing him they probably would have, is that he was able to put that behind him once Bush was in the White House to the point where the extraordinary scene at the end of the Bush presidency where the two of them are up with tears in their eyes, yes, talking about loyalty.
• 45:25
  Right.
• 45:25
  Um but I think that you know it's quintessentially dull.
• 45:31
  I mean, you know, he moves on.
• 45:33
  You know, he he deals with uh, you know, whatever issue has to be dealt with, whatever the relationship happens to be.
• 45:41
  Um and then he moves on.
• 45:44
  Now, not to suggest he doesn't have a memory, but um, you know, he lost, they won, he had a responsibility, his responsibility was leader on the floor and to get things done.
• 45:56
  He didn't want anyone to suggest that anything that didn't happen in the Bush administration was because Bob Dole failed in his responsibilities.
• 46:04
  He wasn't going to be tagged with that.
• 46:06
  Um, and I think, you know, in part it's his own sense of himself, but in part it's, you know, he just that's my job, those are my responsibilities, and you move on.
• 46:18
  Do you think Bush deserves any credit for that?
• 46:20
  I mean that I mean that it was a two-way evolution.
• 46:24
  Well, I mean, I uh I'm sure he does, but I think the the effort w was much more on Dole's side.
• 46:30
  I mean, Bush was in the White House in charge of, you know, everything.
• 46:36
  And um he you know, he certainly was pleasant and I'm sure was helpful in that respect.
• 46:44
  But it was Dole's that was the more challenging, which is to go back and, you know, make things happen uh among, you know, kind of a restive crowd.
• 46:54
  Um and um, you know, I think it was the bigger challenge for Dole.
• 46:59
  Doesn't he also, though, he's part of his generation, but Dole have a reverence for the office.
• 47:05
  Oh, no question, no question.