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Teen 'EGGING PRANK' Ends in MURDER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
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Speaker 2: A death occurs after a teen prank. You don't have
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Speaker 2: to answer out loud, but just be honest. Have you
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Speaker 2: ever egged anybody? Think about it. Don't incriminate yourself as
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Speaker 2: your brother egged somebody a friend girl, you know, back
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Speaker 2: when you were teens in high school. Well, this prank
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Speaker 2: ends up with a guy dead in the middle of
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Speaker 2: the road. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks
0:43
Speaker 2: for being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious
0:46
Speaker 2: XM one eleven. First of all, take a listen to
0:49
Speaker 2: our friends at crimeonline dot com.
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Speaker 3: On a hot July night in Spaulding, Georgia, deputies respond
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Speaker 3: to a call of a man down in the roadway.
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Speaker 3: When deputies arrived to the one hundred block of Dobbins
1:01
Speaker 3: Mill Road, they locate a white male down in the
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Speaker 3: roadway and discover he has been shot and is now deceased.
1:07
Speaker 3: The man is unarmed and there are no other people around.
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Speaker 3: The dead man has no identification on him.
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Speaker 2: Okay, right there, cops get called out to a country road.
1:18
Speaker 2: A guy's dead in the middle of the road with
1:21
Speaker 2: no id. First of all, how is that linked to
1:26
Speaker 2: a simple egging? And when I say a simple egging,
1:31
Speaker 2: no crime is ever really simple because the implications go
1:35
Speaker 2: far beyond you. Ever heard of a shotlifting that ends
1:39
Speaker 2: with a dead body, burglary that ends with murder, a
1:44
Speaker 2: burglary that ends with a rape, or asrodomy, a simple
1:48
Speaker 2: carjack ends in death, or a baby in the back
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Speaker 2: seat being kidnapped. I mean, no crime is really simple
1:58
Speaker 2: with me and all start panel to make sense of
2:00
Speaker 2: but we know right now, but joining me an outstanding
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Speaker 2: member of the bar in this jurisdiction, high profile lawyer,
2:09
Speaker 2: Raymond Judice. Any relation to the housewife.
2:13
Speaker 4: You know, Nancy? I get that all the time. Actually,
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Speaker 4: that's said Joe Judice is from Italy and he's been
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Speaker 4: sent back as he's been deported.
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Speaker 2: That's a whole other crime stories. Ray, Yeah, that's a
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Speaker 2: whole other crime stories.
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Speaker 4: There may be some distant relationship.
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Speaker 2: So Raymond Judice, thank you for being with us. A
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Speaker 2: high profile criminal defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
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Speaker 2: He can find him at rayglaw dot com. Ray thank
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Speaker 2: you for being with us. Explain to me where this
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Speaker 2: is a country road in Spaulding County. Let's just start
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Speaker 2: right there. I know you practiced mostly in metropolitan Atlanta,
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Speaker 2: but the outlying counties include Spalding County. Have you practiced there?
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Speaker 4: I have, And this is about fifty minutes south of
3:00
Speaker 4: Atlanta Hartsfield. They are poured downtown to Atlanta maybe an hour.
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Speaker 4: But what you find is when you as you head
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Speaker 4: towards Macon on A eighty five south, once you get
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Speaker 4: off the exit ramp where the McDonald's and the QT
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Speaker 4: and a few other things are, and you maybe get three,
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Speaker 4: four or five miles off the highway, you are in
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Speaker 4: the country. This is actually one of the premier deer
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Speaker 4: hunting areas and many many people actually have pine tree
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Speaker 4: farms that they maintain to lease to hunters. So it
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Speaker 4: is rural. It's not that far from Atlanta, but it's
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Speaker 4: in the country.
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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about the scene because that means so
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Speaker 2: much when you're investigating a crime.
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Speaker 5: Here.
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Speaker 2: We have a lot of people are used to street lights.
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Speaker 2: They're used to lights being around them from businesses and
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Speaker 2: high rise apartments, but when you are out on a
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Speaker 2: country road, it is pitch black. And I was just
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Speaker 2: thinking about that recently because as you all know, we
4:02
Speaker 2: hear crime stories. Went to the crime scene in the
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Speaker 2: Idaho for Student slagh case where Brian Coburger is now
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Speaker 2: charged with quadruple murder, and we traced his route, his
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Speaker 2: very circuitous long route from the crime scene the night
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Speaker 2: of the murders all the way back to his apartment
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Speaker 2: at student housing at Washington State University. It should have
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Speaker 2: been about a nine minute drive, I clocked at myself.
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Speaker 2: Instead he drove over an hour. And that drive I
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Speaker 2: drove it at night. It was pitch black. When an
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Speaker 2: eighteen wheeler would come toward me, I literally have to
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Speaker 2: pull over to the side of the road because I
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Speaker 2: could not see what was happening. That's the same way
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Speaker 2: it is in this location. We have been there, black
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Speaker 2: at night. So how do they link this dead body
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Speaker 2: in the middle of the road to a prank and egging.
5:08
Speaker 2: That's one of the things I want to know. Another thing,
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Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me. Chief medical Examiner out of
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Speaker 2: Terran County, that's Fort Worth. He is electorate at University
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Speaker 2: of Texas Austin at Texas Christian University Medical School. Doctor Crowns,
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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. How do you go
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Speaker 2: about identifying a dead body in the middle of the road,
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Speaker 2: when you've got no eyewitness to say that's my husband,
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Speaker 2: that's my brother, that's my son, that's my next door neighbor.
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Speaker 2: You got nothing, no ID, nothing on them. What do
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Speaker 2: you do as the medical examiner when you're faced with that?
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Speaker 6: So there's a number of things you can do. At
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Speaker 6: first is you do an attempt to do a visual
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Speaker 6: ID if you can find their driver's license and try
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Speaker 6: and match that up. But often people don't have that
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Speaker 6: on them. So the next thing you do is fingerprints,
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Speaker 6: because everybody has fingerprints. Of course.
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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, let me get that in my head.
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Speaker 2: Fingerprinting a dead body, that's what you're saying, correct, And
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Speaker 2: do you do it old school with the ink, the
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Speaker 2: black ink, or is there another way to do it,
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Speaker 2: for instance, digitally.
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Speaker 6: No, you manipulate the hands and then you put the
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Speaker 6: black ink on them and do fingerprints that way, and
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Speaker 6: then that is submitted if they have a record. In Texas,
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Speaker 6: everybody gets fingerprinted when you get a driver's license, so
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Speaker 6: they have a thumbprint or an index fingerprint on file
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Speaker 6: and we can do a comparison that way. If fingerprints failed,
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Speaker 6: then you move on to dental records, hospital record that
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Speaker 6: they've had any X rays.
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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, you're getting ahead of me. You're going
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Speaker 2: to warp speed for there. Hold on, doctor Crown's when
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Speaker 2: you say dental records, to have a dental record comparison
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Speaker 2: to identify someone, Let's just say Sydney here working the sound.
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Speaker 2: She's got perfect teeth. I know she has orthodontia work.
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Speaker 2: She's probably had her wisdom teeth out. She may have
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Speaker 2: a cavity back in there somewhere. But only one person
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Speaker 2: has not only the imprint of her teeth, but her
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Speaker 2: dental work, her exact dental work, and that's her. So
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Speaker 2: to make a dental comparison, doctor, you have to have
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Speaker 2: something to compare it too. So if you don't know
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Speaker 2: the name of this person, how do you compare their
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Speaker 2: dental records?
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Speaker 6: Well, that is the problem is if you don't know
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Speaker 6: the name of an individual and you have no idea
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Speaker 6: who they are, the dental records, hospital records, anything of
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Speaker 6: that nature is using a presumptive ID. And if you
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Speaker 6: don't have that, all you can do is put out
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Speaker 6: a missing person's report with a picture of the photograph
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Speaker 6: and put it up on say your local web page
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Speaker 6: for your law enforcement area and hope that someone is
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Speaker 6: looking for that individual and an idea.
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Speaker 2: Well, have you ever fingerprinted a dead body?
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Speaker 7: Yes?
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Speaker 2: I have, And how that leave you feeling? I'm just curious.
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Speaker 2: I've never you know, I've had a lot of dead
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Speaker 2: bodies I had to work with as a prosecutor, but
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Speaker 2: I've never had to fingerprint a dead body.
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Speaker 6: It made me feel no different than I feel on
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Speaker 6: any other day. So it's just all part of the workload.
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Speaker 8: You know.
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Speaker 2: I'm glad you're a medical examiner, not me. I really am,
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Speaker 2: because I don't want a fingerprint a dead body. It
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Speaker 2: was hard enough for me to go to crime says,
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Speaker 2: homicide sayings autopsies much less have to fingerprint the dead body.
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Speaker 4: Here.
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Speaker 2: You've got this person lying there, obviously murdered, and nobody
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Speaker 2: even knows who they are. The dichotomy of that is
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Speaker 2: a lot to take in joining me now. Cheryl McCollum
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Speaker 2: a Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder. You can find
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Speaker 2: her at Coldcasecrimes dot org and she is the star
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Speaker 2: of Hitting You series Zone seven. Cherylmccollum, thank you for
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Speaker 2: being with us. Cheryl, have you ever had a dead
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Speaker 2: body that you have to identify and nobody can identify it.
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Speaker 2: What I'm getting, how do we even know that this
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Speaker 2: guy's dead as a result of an egging if we
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Speaker 2: don't even know who he is? I mean, Sharon McCollum,
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Speaker 2: I don't know. If you remember, one of the last
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Speaker 2: murders I tried wasn't unidentified, Jane Doe. And that makes
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Speaker 2: it a lot harder to solve a case when you
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Speaker 2: don't know the identity of the victim explained.
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Speaker 5: When you don't know who the victim is, your suspect
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Speaker 5: pool is literally everybody. You don't know who this person
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Speaker 5: has been in contact with, who they're related to, who
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Speaker 5: they upset, whether or not they are connected to some
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Speaker 5: nefarious people. What we do have is a very unusual location,
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Speaker 5: so that by itself, just the location is going to
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Speaker 5: reduce your suspect poole. You've got a very rule, very dark,
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Speaker 5: very small area. Even though it is sort of metro Atlanta,
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Speaker 5: this is way out so you're not going to have
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Speaker 5: a lot of traffic there. You're not going to have
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Speaker 5: a ton of people. This is not on fourteenth Street,
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Speaker 5: this is in Griffin. So again, for me, your suspect
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Speaker 5: pool is going to reduce before you could even identify
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Speaker 5: the victim, you already know. Probably you're dealing with somebody
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Speaker 5: that knows the perpetry.
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Speaker 2: Guys, take a listen to our friends at WSB.
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Speaker 9: Deputy say, three teenagers went to egg a man's house
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Speaker 9: and then killed him. That happened on Dobbin's Mill Road
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Speaker 9: in Spaulding County. Deputy say, the homeowner confronted the three
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Speaker 9: and one of them shot him. They left his body
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Speaker 9: in the road.
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Speaker 2: And ran Okay, So how do they know that if
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Speaker 2: they still haven't ide'd the victim? At some point they
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Speaker 2: get that ID, they figure out what happened. Take a
10:47
Speaker 2: list our friends that crime online.
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Speaker 3: Detectives arrived on the scene and find Jonathan Gilbert dead
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Speaker 3: from a gunshot wound in the street. Investigators talked to
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Speaker 3: witnesses and are able to identify a car as well
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Speaker 3: as the cell phone number of a possible suspect. Investigators
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Speaker 3: are able to track one of the suspect's cell phone
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Speaker 3: numbers to an address in neighboring Henry County. Officers there
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Speaker 3: find the car at the address and get a search
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Speaker 3: warrant for the house in the car. A gun is
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Speaker 3: found in the car believed to have been used in
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Speaker 3: Gilbert's death.
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Speaker 2: Wow, that is a seismic jump from not being able
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Speaker 2: to identify the body.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Joining us now is crime online dot Com investigative reporter
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Speaker 2: Alexis Terzchuk. Alexis that sound is so neat and simple
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Speaker 2: and tied up with a bow and put under the
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Speaker 2: Christmas tree when you hear Dave Mack from Crime online
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Speaker 2: dot Com describing it, But actually the cops went through
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Speaker 2: quite a few hoops before they could figure out what happened.
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Speaker 2: And explain to me what the cops do when they
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Speaker 2: get out there and they find this dead body.
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Speaker 7: So they arrived on the scene, it is nighttime, dead
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Speaker 7: body in the middle of the road, and as the
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Speaker 7: other guest has said, it's dark, it's rural, it's not
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Speaker 7: very well lit. They search him, his body, they look
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Speaker 7: in his pockets and see if there's anything that can
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Speaker 7: identify him. They find nothing on him. So what they
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Speaker 7: actually did The police explained that they did a fingerprint scan. Now,
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Speaker 7: perhaps they had something in one of the police officers
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Speaker 7: cars that could do this and this identified him. Then
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Speaker 7: they started knocking, going around to houses around the area
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Speaker 7: and they actually located a witness. Now they have not
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Speaker 7: said what if this witness heard the gunshots from outside,
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Speaker 7: from inside their house or was looking out the window.
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Speaker 7: But the witness explained, gave them some tips, gave them
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Speaker 7: some clues as to who he was and where he
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Speaker 7: was standing.
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Speaker 2: Now, this is all that we're getting out of the
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Speaker 2: police report. According to Spaulding County Sheriff Deale Dicks, investigators
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Speaker 2: managed to locate a witness, as you're saying, going door
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Speaker 2: to door knocking, who provided them enough evidence to create
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Speaker 2: a link between the victim and the suspects. Using that info,
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Speaker 2: investigators began their search and they got a cell phone
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Speaker 2: number tied to one of these people, tracking that cell
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Speaker 2: phone number to Henry County, Okay. So Alexis described what
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Speaker 2: are they talking about?
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Speaker 7: So most likely what they did is they found his
13:37
Speaker 7: cell phone. They managed to get it open, whether it
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Speaker 7: wasn't locked or they could use his fingerprint to open it,
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Speaker 7: they got it open it and there was a number.
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Speaker 7: So this gave them a clue whether it was a
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Speaker 7: text message or a phone call. They realized that this
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Speaker 7: person was very connected. Perhaps the text message that we're
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Speaker 7: coming to your house right now, or come on out. Haha,
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Speaker 7: we'd egged your how and they traced this number. They
13:58
Speaker 7: went to their database, they traced the numb They probably
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Speaker 7: had to get a warrant for that, and then they
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Speaker 7: went to the home of where it was.
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Speaker 2: Hey, I found out something. Alexis were just learning this
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Speaker 2: the fingerprint idea that we've been talking about.
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Speaker 7: Huh.
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Speaker 2: The guy, the victim does not have a criminal history,
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Speaker 2: but what he does have is a driver's license problem.
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Speaker 2: The victim in this case, Jonathan Gilbert, had a license problem.
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Speaker 2: He had a suspended license, and he, as you mentioned earlier,
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Speaker 2: was there in that area dealing with the driver's license issue.
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Speaker 2: He was there from Texas and that is why they
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Speaker 2: had his fingerprint. Raged you to say, in that jurisdiction
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Speaker 2: do you have to give your fingerprint to get a
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Speaker 2: driver's license?
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Speaker 10: You do not.
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Speaker 4: But it is possible in a not here to dispudge
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Speaker 4: this young man's character. If he was there for a
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Speaker 4: suspended driver's license problem, he may have been charged with
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Speaker 4: driving with a suspended license by law enforcement, which can
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Speaker 4: be either just done by citation. But some jurisdictions do
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Speaker 4: fingerprint and book people in on that. So again I
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Speaker 4: don't know that to be the case. But if you're
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Speaker 4: asking me how it's possible that his fingerprints were on
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Speaker 4: record in Spaulding County, Georgia, it may have been that
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Speaker 4: event that he had been charged, he came back here
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Speaker 4: to Georgia to deal with the case or the citation,
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Speaker 4: and they linked the fingerprints together.
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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people wouldn't even bother to
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Speaker 2: come back. If you got a driver's license problem in
15:41
Speaker 2: Georgia you live in Texas. A lot of people just say,
15:44
Speaker 2: screw it, I'm not going back. But the reality that's
15:46
Speaker 2: a technical legal term. I'm sure you've never used Reggio
15:49
Speaker 2: to check it. But if you have a driver's license
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Speaker 2: problem in Georgia, would that affect your driver's license, your
15:57
Speaker 2: ability to drive in Texas or anywhere else?
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Speaker 4: Yes? Yes, generally nowadays after nine to eleven, tragically, But
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Speaker 4: all of everybody's computer talks to everybody's computer nowadays, Nancy,
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Speaker 4: you and I remember back in even the eighties and nineties,
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Speaker 4: a guy could have fifteen different tractor trailer drivers had
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Speaker 4: fifteen licenses in fifteen states. Not anymore so if he
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Speaker 4: had moved to Texas or was a Texas residence. But
16:20
Speaker 4: had a driver's license issue in Georgia. He probably would
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Speaker 4: have had to clear that up. Come here, clear it
16:26
Speaker 4: up and then either get a Texas license or reinstate
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Speaker 4: his Texas license.
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Speaker 2: The guy's trying to do the right thing. Come get
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Speaker 2: his driver's license problem right cleared up. It's up dead
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Speaker 2: in the middle of a dirt road out on a
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Speaker 2: dark night in Griffin. You know, I'm just thinking this
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Speaker 2: whole thing through. Hey, Alexis Tereshchuk. Before I was asking
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Speaker 2: Ray about the driver's license issue, what were you telling
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Speaker 2: me about their investigation? They get a cell phone. Now,
16:52
Speaker 2: remember the guy didn't have anything on him. He didn't
16:55
Speaker 2: have a cell phone on him. But somehow they locate
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Speaker 2: a witness. If that witness n where the cell phone was, whatever,
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Speaker 2: the witness connected him with two other people. Okay, take
17:07
Speaker 2: it from there, Alexis.
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Speaker 7: Or the witness could have simply been a neighbor and
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Speaker 7: who said, well, there are these houses here. That's not him,
17:17
Speaker 7: we don't know him, he doesn't live here, but that
17:19
Speaker 7: is the house that he would have come from. Because
17:21
Speaker 7: I believe he was actually staying with a friend, it
17:23
Speaker 7: was not his house. And so because he was clearing
17:26
Speaker 7: up his core problem. So the witness could have been
17:29
Speaker 7: another neighbor, but said, let's rule out he doesn't live
17:32
Speaker 7: in my house. I know he doesn't live next door
17:34
Speaker 7: in the Smith's house he lived, he must have come
17:37
Speaker 7: from that house. So they found a phone which probably
17:42
Speaker 7: was his cell phone. They connected them with that.
17:45
Speaker 2: So then they find the cell number. They get a
17:48
Speaker 2: cell number connected to one of the alleged perps. The eggers,
17:54
Speaker 2: let me say, and how do they figure out Cheryl McCollum, guy,
17:59
Speaker 2: cherylmccollums US from Cold Case Research Institute. How do they
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Speaker 2: then take that number and figure out it's from Henry County.
18:09
Speaker 5: Well, they tracked it to Henry County. So now they
18:12
Speaker 5: are actively following this cell number. So if they got
18:16
Speaker 5: the victim cell and they're connected, then they're just tracking
18:21
Speaker 5: them maybe three sixty or half or they're doing it.
18:23
Speaker 5: But it shows a home in Henry County. When they
18:27
Speaker 5: get to that home, they send Henry County Police. They
18:30
Speaker 5: arrived there, they see the suspect vehicle.
18:33
Speaker 2: But Ray, here's another thing that's so irritating. What is
18:37
Speaker 2: wrong with the phone company. You can't get any information
18:41
Speaker 2: out of them. It's like pulling a tooth. I would
18:43
Speaker 2: go round and round with them as a prosecutor, because
18:48
Speaker 2: if you've got a number, if they would just cooperate,
18:52
Speaker 2: they could give you the address where that number is registered.
18:57
Speaker 2: But oh, hubln, they're not going to help you.
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Speaker 4: Oh no, not just the phone services, but also you
19:05
Speaker 4: have to get a search warrant. Law enforcement needs to
19:07
Speaker 4: get a search warrant to get into my cell phone
19:10
Speaker 4: unless I give them permission. We've got cases where what
19:14
Speaker 4: officers will do is to hold the phone up to
19:17
Speaker 4: somebody's face for the facial recognition to unlock it. Well,
19:20
Speaker 4: that's an illegal search. So between the phone companies, the
19:25
Speaker 4: service providers, and the phone manufacturers, and of course there's
19:29
Speaker 4: only a handful of those, they've made it so hard
19:31
Speaker 4: for law enforcement to do what you think would be
19:34
Speaker 4: a very simple tracking who owns this cell phone number?
19:38
Speaker 4: Where does it tracked back to very difficult? You're absolutely right.
19:42
Speaker 2: I mean they give you h elel like, where are
19:45
Speaker 2: the bad guys? We're trying to solve a murder. So
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Speaker 2: I'm hearing Alexis describe how local and Spaulding County, Griffin, Georgia,
19:55
Speaker 2: then reach Henry County and everybody converges at a location. Guys,
20:01
Speaker 2: take a listen to our friends a crime online.
20:05
Speaker 3: Faulding County Sheriff Daryl Dick says Sidney Mond, Jeremy Munson,
20:08
Speaker 3: and Mackenzie Davenport went to the home of Jonathan Gilbert
20:11
Speaker 3: to egg it. As the tree was getting ready to leave,
20:13
Speaker 3: Jonathan Gilbert confronted them. The suspects ran back to the car,
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Speaker 3: and as Gilbert approached them, Sidney Man, a backseat passenger
20:20
Speaker 3: in the car, produced a firearm and shot him multiple times.
20:23
Speaker 3: The suspects then drove away, leaving Gilbert dead in the street.
20:26
Speaker 3: The only motive Sheriff Dicks has offered thus far is
20:29
Speaker 3: the vandalism of the house Gilbert was staying in appeared
20:32
Speaker 3: to be the result of an ongoing lover's quarrel.
20:34
Speaker 2: It was an egging. For those of you that have
20:37
Speaker 2: never done it or don't know about it. You get
20:39
Speaker 2: a dozen eggs and you go throw it at your
20:43
Speaker 2: target's home, their car, anything that belongs to them, their driveway, them.
20:50
Speaker 2: It's an egging. It washes off in the shower, it
20:53
Speaker 2: washes off at the car wash. Why did this have
20:56
Speaker 2: to result in a death? Joining me is doctor Angela Arnold,
21:03
Speaker 2: uh renounced psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find
21:06
Speaker 2: her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Angie, how does
21:10
Speaker 2: it go from an egging to a guy dad in
21:14
Speaker 2: the middle of the road?
21:15
Speaker 4: Right?
21:15
Speaker 10: I mean Nancy at the beginning of the show when
21:18
Speaker 10: you asked if any of us had egged go, you.
21:20
Speaker 2: Know you've egged something. I don't know how, and I
21:22
Speaker 2: don't know when, but I know you have maybe t peede.
21:25
Speaker 10: But Nancy who goes out with a dozen eggs to
21:28
Speaker 10: egg someone's house, but then their intent changes to murder
21:32
Speaker 10: that person. Those are two completely different mindsets as far
21:36
Speaker 10: as I'm concerned. How does it? How does escalate that
21:40
Speaker 10: far to Oh, I'm going to take a gun out
21:43
Speaker 10: and shoot this guy and it's dark outside, and you know,
21:46
Speaker 10: I have to wonder do they did they really know
21:48
Speaker 10: who they were shooting?
21:50
Speaker 7: How dark was it?
21:52
Speaker 10: But they also went with a gun. But it doesn't
21:56
Speaker 10: it doesn't equate to me. It doesn't equate how you
22:00
Speaker 10: would do a childish act, which is to go and
22:02
Speaker 10: egg someone's house. That's a very immature act. Grown ups
22:07
Speaker 10: don't egg people's houses.
22:09
Speaker 2: Oh wait, what they don't Okay, sorry.
22:11
Speaker 10: I don't think so, Nancy, go ahead. I think grown
22:13
Speaker 10: ups go around egging people's houses.
22:15
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Ray, Judica, you've handled all sorts of cases,
22:20
Speaker 2: from rape and murder to cases just like this. Has
22:23
Speaker 2: someone over eighteen ever egged anything?
22:26
Speaker 4: I'm always surprised at how juvenile grown people will behave
22:30
Speaker 4: in act. Whether it's so, then yes, yes, the answer
22:34
Speaker 4: would be yes, especially in romantic situations.
22:38
Speaker 2: Who was dating who? Here? I don't get that anybody
22:41
Speaker 2: on the panel. Who's dating who? Why are they calling
22:44
Speaker 2: this a love spat Alexis?
22:47
Speaker 7: Do you know they have not said exactly who was
22:49
Speaker 7: dating Who's so we don't know if it was one
22:52
Speaker 7: of the two girls or the boy. But the police
22:55
Speaker 7: are calling it a lover's quarrel.
22:57
Speaker 2: So you've got two girls and a boy. You've got
23:00
Speaker 2: Sydney Mahon, Mackenzie Davenport, both girls and one boy, Jeremy Munson.
23:06
Speaker 2: But guys, this is not by far the first time
23:09
Speaker 2: a simple egging or a prank or a tpee toilet
23:13
Speaker 2: paper in somebody's house has ended up in a dead body,
23:18
Speaker 2: or at least one dead body. Take a listen to
23:21
Speaker 2: our cut twelve Our forensic ka r K.
23:24
Speaker 8: Witness is on Skylark Road say they heard four gunshots
23:27
Speaker 8: this morning around twelve fifty three and a car speeding away.
23:31
Speaker 8: Neighbors say they saw Willie Noble walking back toward his home.
23:34
Speaker 8: According to Ellrock Police Department, the kids had thrown leaves, eggs,
23:38
Speaker 8: and mayonnaise on Noble's car, and they say when he
23:40
Speaker 8: came outside, he fired at their car as they drove away.
23:43
Speaker 11: When those kids left to go out and do this,
23:45
Speaker 11: they did by no means that any one of them
23:47
Speaker 11: think that this was going to be a horrible event.
23:50
Speaker 11: They thought that they would although be a mischievous thing.
23:53
Speaker 11: They didn't think they would end up being a deadly
23:55
Speaker 11: a deadly prankt.
23:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know who was killed in that case? Eighteen
24:00
Speaker 2: girl Adrian Broadway right over egging and throwing leaves on
24:06
Speaker 2: some guy's house. She's dead. And guess what that's not
24:11
Speaker 2: all guys. Take a Listen to our cut eleven speaking
24:16
Speaker 2: of doctor Angie Arnold obviously has inside information on a
24:20
Speaker 2: TP toilet papering somebody's home. Take a list our cut
24:24
Speaker 2: eleven from Crime Online.
24:25
Speaker 3: Irodeld County Sheriff deputies respond to a call just after
24:28
Speaker 3: midnight in reference to shots fired at a vehicle. Deputies
24:31
Speaker 3: arrive un scene and find three juveniles who say they
24:34
Speaker 3: were pulling a prank on a friend by toilet paper
24:36
Speaker 3: in the friend's house. William Boggas lives next door. He
24:39
Speaker 3: saw them putting toilet paper on the yard in front
24:41
Speaker 3: of the kids. They get in their vehicle to leave.
24:43
Speaker 3: Bogus fires three shots at their car, then gets in
24:45
Speaker 3: his car and follows the juveniles for some distance and
24:48
Speaker 3: drives his vehicle into the rear of the teen's car,
24:51
Speaker 3: causing them to be involved in a vehicle collision. Bogas
24:54
Speaker 3: is now charged with discharging a firearm in an occupied
24:57
Speaker 3: property and three counts assault with a deadly weapon.
25:00
Speaker 2: And more from Crime Online. Listen.
25:03
Speaker 3: Authority say local firefighter James McCrae was chasing a group
25:06
Speaker 3: of high school students that were rolling a house. Officials
25:08
Speaker 3: said the teens were from Flowmington High School, which is
25:10
Speaker 3: celebrating homecoming all week. Students have been buying up all
25:13
Speaker 3: the local toilet paper and tossing it on area homes.
25:15
Speaker 3: It happens every year. Some believe McCrae thought the teens
25:18
Speaker 3: were trying to break into a house. He called nine
25:20
Speaker 3: one one as he gave chase, trying to get a
25:21
Speaker 3: tag number for deputies. Alabama State Troopers said McCrae lost
25:24
Speaker 3: control of his two thousand and three Chevy pickup truck
25:26
Speaker 3: at about seven fifty pm in a curve on Stanley Road.
25:29
Speaker 3: He was not wearing a seatbelt. He was ejected from
25:31
Speaker 3: his truck as it rolled over. He was pronounced dead
25:33
Speaker 3: at the scene.
25:33
Speaker 2: Can I tell you how many dozens and dozens of
25:37
Speaker 2: eggings and toilet paperings I've got that end in a death? Now,
25:41
Speaker 2: in a couple of these cases, teens or the pursuer
25:45
Speaker 2: are driving recklessly and have a crash and die. But
25:48
Speaker 2: there are others that end up actually shooting each other
25:52
Speaker 2: over an egging or a TP Guys, take a listen,
25:56
Speaker 2: and now here comes a principal of a local school involved.
25:59
Speaker 2: Take a look to our cut ten out of the
26:02
Speaker 2: Chattanooga Times Free Press.
26:04
Speaker 12: An area teenager was shot while he was rolling his
26:07
Speaker 12: principal's yard with toilet paper. Authorready say Dale Bryant Ferris
26:12
Speaker 12: fired a shotgun at several teens in Estel Springs, striking
26:16
Speaker 12: a fifteen year old boy multiple times. The problem is
26:20
Speaker 12: they weren't on his property. The kids were pranking Ferris's neighbor,
26:24
Speaker 12: Hunland School Principal Ken Bishop. The teenager is recovering from
26:28
Speaker 12: his wounds and Ferris faces charges of aggravated assault and
26:32
Speaker 12: reckless endangerment.
26:34
Speaker 2: You think the adults involved would not give chase or
26:37
Speaker 2: certainly would pull a gun while giving chase. Have you
26:41
Speaker 2: ever heard of the game Ding Dong Ditch, Ding Dong Ditch?
26:46
Speaker 2: Well you have now take a listen to Ksey al
26:50
Speaker 2: cut eight.
26:51
Speaker 13: The CHP says that Chandra intentionally crashed into a prius
26:55
Speaker 13: carrying the six boys Sunday night on Tamescal Canyon Road.
27:00
Speaker 13: Victim's families confirm that the teens were playing a prank
27:04
Speaker 13: ding Dong ditch and rang the suspects doorbell a person
27:07
Speaker 13: they did not know an a rug. Chandra is accused
27:10
Speaker 13: of hitting the priests with his infinity as the boys
27:13
Speaker 13: left the neighborhood. Drake Ruiz, Daniel Hawkins, and Jacob Evescu died.
27:19
Speaker 2: Three boys dead from running up, ringing a doorbell and
27:26
Speaker 2: running away. They're dead. The adult pursuer crashed them with
27:34
Speaker 2: this prius and they're all dead. The pursuer lived. Okay,
27:40
Speaker 2: Doctor Angela Arnold, I can sort this out legally myself.
27:47
Speaker 2: That's not self defense. That's revenge. Revenge is not a
27:52
Speaker 2: defense under the law. And correct me if I'm wrong.
27:56
Speaker 2: Ra I'm sure he'd argue something differently if we were
27:59
Speaker 2: butting heads and court. But when you are angry, let's
28:03
Speaker 2: just say you're angry over and egging and you see
28:07
Speaker 2: the running away. Some would argue that reduces your charge
28:12
Speaker 2: to voluntary manslaughter or not murder because you're in the
28:15
Speaker 2: heat of passion you're angry. But I would argue that
28:19
Speaker 2: during the pursuit you should have a cooling off period
28:24
Speaker 2: so it's no longer in the heat of passion. It
28:27
Speaker 2: is cold blooded revenge, and revenge is not a defense
28:32
Speaker 2: under the law. Agree or disagree.
28:35
Speaker 4: Ray you to Jay Nancy. In this setting, I will
28:37
Speaker 4: agree with you and think about what has to happen.
28:40
Speaker 4: Someone has to get angry, they have to go get
28:43
Speaker 4: their gun. They may have to load the gun. They
28:46
Speaker 4: then have to leave the residents and start to pursue
28:49
Speaker 4: carrying the loaded weapons. I mean you, as a great prosecutor,
28:54
Speaker 4: you could defeat that self defense claim with simple questions
28:57
Speaker 4: that I just threw out, you know, in the morning.
29:00
Speaker 2: You know, question of off the topic of why did
29:03
Speaker 2: you have to leave being a prosecutor because just the
29:05
Speaker 2: way that you said that made so much sense. You
29:08
Speaker 2: had to go to the dark side? Didn't you make
29:10
Speaker 2: all that money?
29:11
Speaker 6: I did it for the money?
29:12
Speaker 2: Okay? You know, I'm thinking about this whole thing.
29:16
Speaker 5: Can I jump in here, Nancy?
29:18
Speaker 2: Oh? Could I stop? You go ahead, Cheryl McCollum.
29:20
Speaker 5: I think what's really important to me here is that
29:25
Speaker 5: a loaded gun was taken to an egging and fired
29:29
Speaker 5: from the back seat multiple times at a victim that
29:33
Speaker 5: was unarmed. So my question is going to be did
29:37
Speaker 5: they egg the house to draw him out? And was
29:40
Speaker 5: this always a murder? Because if you look at their
29:43
Speaker 5: mud shots, they ain't crying, they don't look scared.
29:47
Speaker 2: Let's take a look at their mud shots. And these
29:50
Speaker 2: are teens the teams. Yes, she Sidney Maun is said
29:56
Speaker 2: to have fired the fatal shot from the back seat,
30:00
Speaker 2: the passenger back seat that killed this twenty two year
30:04
Speaker 2: old guy, Jonathan Gilbert. Yeah, she looks kind of like
30:07
Speaker 2: po that she got caught. Now I'm looking at the
30:11
Speaker 2: other one. Mackenzie Davenport. Yeah, she looks irritated. The boy involved,
30:18
Speaker 2: Jeremy Munson. Yeah, none of them are crying. None of
30:22
Speaker 2: them are crying. That's a really good observation and another
30:26
Speaker 2: point of law. They're all three going to be charged
30:31
Speaker 2: with murder, not just Sidney maund who pulled the trigger.
30:48
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grease.
30:54
Speaker 2: Back to you, rage jud Chay. Why are all three
30:58
Speaker 2: going to be charged with the murder when only one
31:01
Speaker 2: pull the trigger?
31:03
Speaker 3: Nancy?
31:03
Speaker 4: Almost all states have a felony murder statue. So let's
31:07
Speaker 4: say the three of us are going to go rob
31:08
Speaker 4: the bank.
31:09
Speaker 2: Write a minute, don't even put me in that. It
31:11
Speaker 2: can be you and shriff are.
31:14
Speaker 4: Well, you've got a wheelman, you've got a someone holding
31:16
Speaker 4: the door, and you've got someone inside with the gun.
31:18
Speaker 4: The gun goes off, the taeller is killed. All three
31:21
Speaker 4: will be charged with murder. Now what usually happens, The
31:25
Speaker 4: non gun people roll over on the gunman. It was
31:28
Speaker 4: all his fault, it was his plan. I didn't know
31:30
Speaker 4: where we were going, he said. He was just running
31:32
Speaker 4: in the bank to cash a check, and I was
31:34
Speaker 4: keeping the car warm. So that's the story, and I
31:37
Speaker 4: guarantee you you will see one of these three roll
31:40
Speaker 4: on the gun woman right out out.
31:43
Speaker 2: You know what always bothered me many many times. For instance,
31:46
Speaker 2: I have t tb r theft byer saving stolen vehicle,
31:51
Speaker 2: and that's because you charge staff by re saving when
31:56
Speaker 2: you don't have an eyewitness or confession as somebody saying
31:59
Speaker 2: I actually took it. That would be theft by taking,
32:02
Speaker 2: same sentence theft by receiving, theft by taking. And there'd
32:06
Speaker 2: be usually five guys out joy riding in a car
32:10
Speaker 2: that all have to be charged with felony theft by receiving,
32:14
Speaker 2: even though I would know one person was probably the ringleader,
32:19
Speaker 2: and it always worked the way you're saying, somebody would
32:22
Speaker 2: rite out the other, you know, doctor Angela Arnold. I'm
32:25
Speaker 2: imagining this night of them riding over there, not intending
32:31
Speaker 2: to shoot, probably thinking it was kind of funny to
32:35
Speaker 2: egg this guy, ending up with somebody pulling a gun,
32:39
Speaker 2: according to police, teen girl Sidney Maun and shooting Gilbert
32:46
Speaker 2: dead unarmed.
32:48
Speaker 10: Maybe they were intending to shoot, like Cheryl said, I mean,
32:51
Speaker 10: that's a whole different kind of twist on those.
32:52
Speaker 2: But don't you think that leaves a lot to chance
32:54
Speaker 2: if we egg his house or his car, we think
32:57
Speaker 2: he might chase us and then we can shoot him.
33:00
Speaker 10: Certainly do But but why did they bring a gun
33:02
Speaker 10: with them?
33:03
Speaker 2: Exactly? That would be my question. Why bring a gun? Hey,
33:06
Speaker 2: when I go to Kroger, I don't take a gun
33:09
Speaker 2: with me. No, when I go to the library with
33:11
Speaker 2: the twins, I don't take a gun. Why Because it
33:14
Speaker 2: don't intend on pulling it, So guys pursue it to
33:17
Speaker 2: the legal line of reasoning we are describing. Take a
33:21
Speaker 2: listen to our cut three our friends at NewsNation.
33:25
Speaker 14: Three Georgia teens are facing murder charges tonight after what
33:29
Speaker 14: police says started as a lover's quarrel and an egging
33:32
Speaker 14: prank that ended with shots fired and a victim debt. Now,
33:36
Speaker 14: police say the three teens drove to the victim's house
33:38
Speaker 14: and started throwing eggs. When a twenty two year old
33:41
Speaker 14: man came out to confront the three, police say one
33:44
Speaker 14: of them grabbed a gun from their car and shot
33:47
Speaker 14: him before driving away. Now all three are in custody
33:50
Speaker 14: and all three are facing murder charges, even though only
33:53
Speaker 14: one of them pulled the trigger.
33:55
Speaker 2: To Alexis Tschak, Climeoline dot Com investigative reporter, what more
34:00
Speaker 2: do we know about that? Not, because I believe a
34:02
Speaker 2: jury is going to turn on the question why did
34:05
Speaker 2: they have a gun and why did this girl, Sydney
34:10
Speaker 2: mong feel threatened or what made her pick up the gun,
34:17
Speaker 2: aim it and pull the trigger. Why did they take
34:19
Speaker 2: the gun and why did she pull the trigger? What
34:21
Speaker 2: do we know?
34:22
Speaker 7: Well, we know that there was a connection and the
34:25
Speaker 7: police have said there was a lover's quarrel. So someone
34:29
Speaker 7: was involved with the victim and there was some they
34:32
Speaker 7: were fighting, they had perhaps been dating and they were
34:34
Speaker 7: fighting now and there was he was racing at the
34:40
Speaker 7: car he was and he had come out. He stopped.
34:43
Speaker 7: They ran the guy. They saw him come out. They
34:46
Speaker 7: ran and got in the car. But he didn't stop
34:48
Speaker 7: because he say, oh, they get in the car. There's
34:49
Speaker 7: nothing I can do. They're just going to drive away.
34:51
Speaker 7: He kept running towards the car and so that is
34:55
Speaker 7: when apparent Sydney allegedly pulled the gun out and shot
34:59
Speaker 7: him from the backseat of the car. So she wasn't
35:03
Speaker 7: the driver. She was hanging out in the back. The
35:06
Speaker 7: thing is that it's not just the police who said
35:11
Speaker 7: it's a lover's girl. There are other people and they
35:13
Speaker 7: found a direct link between the two of them. It's
35:15
Speaker 7: not they can't say, oh, we just egged a random house.
35:18
Speaker 7: There was definitely a reason that they targeted him. And
35:21
Speaker 7: bringing the gun adds a whole other level. If you
35:24
Speaker 7: would go toilet paper someone's house in high school, not
35:27
Speaker 7: saying I know anybody that did that, but I might have. Well,
35:29
Speaker 7: we didn't have a gun, and we certainly wouldn't have
35:31
Speaker 7: brought a gun because we wanted to just be super quiet.
35:33
Speaker 2: Well, I've got another fact that's really going to hurt
35:37
Speaker 2: the three defendants, and I would use it, would totally
35:39
Speaker 2: use it in court. We are now learning that the
35:43
Speaker 2: three teens were driving away when Sydney Man allegedly pulled
35:50
Speaker 2: the gun and fired back at Jonathan Gilbert just twenty two.
35:54
Speaker 7: And multiple times, not just one shot, oh more.
35:56
Speaker 2: Than one shot. I didn't know that part. That's a
35:59
Speaker 2: big deal because that says she was no longer in fear.
36:05
Speaker 2: What about that, doctor, Angie Arnold, she was no longer
36:09
Speaker 2: a fear if they were driving away and he was
36:12
Speaker 2: standing out there. Now, according to the victim's mother, she
36:15
Speaker 2: said he ran out to protect the home of his
36:18
Speaker 2: friend from getting egged.
36:20
Speaker 10: That's such a shaky dessense who shoots somebody as they're
36:24
Speaker 10: driving away from egging their house. What kind of fear
36:28
Speaker 10: was she in at that point? What kind of danger
36:30
Speaker 10: with that girl in that she had to turn and
36:33
Speaker 10: shoot this person. She was not in any danger. She
36:36
Speaker 10: was in a car, they were driving away. It's absolutely ridiculous,
36:42
Speaker 10: but it shows what was in her heart the whole time,
36:44
Speaker 10: doesn't it.
36:45
Speaker 5: Hey, let me jump in Nancy, even before she got
36:48
Speaker 5: safely into the back seat and was driving away. It
36:52
Speaker 5: was three against one. She wasn't afraid from jump. One
36:57
Speaker 5: man unarmed is not going to get the bank of
37:00
Speaker 5: those three anyway.
37:01
Speaker 2: Plus they were in a car, Plus they had a gun.
37:04
Speaker 2: You're right now, Are they going to try and claim
37:08
Speaker 2: they were afraid or it was all just a joke
37:13
Speaker 2: that's been tried before. Take a listen to hour cut
37:16
Speaker 2: fourteen Our Friends at ABC thirteen.
37:18
Speaker 15: Seventeen year old Dominique McCoy was visiting Reginald Small's home
37:21
Speaker 15: yesterday morning on stuben Or Hill Drive in northwest Harris County.
37:24
Speaker 15: According to deputies, the two were said to be friends.
37:28
Speaker 15: McCoy allegedly hid in the bathroom in the home. According
37:31
Speaker 15: to a judge today and jumped out to scare his friend,
37:34
Speaker 15: but the other seventeen year old reacted and shot McCoy,
37:37
Speaker 15: who died. Small's was taken into custody. The same day
37:40
Speaker 15: as the shooting. Another teen was also arrested, accused of
37:43
Speaker 15: trying to hide the gun. He's already posted his bond. Meanwhile,
37:47
Speaker 15: Small's remains behind bars.
37:49
Speaker 2: I don't think that claiming, oh, it was a joke
37:53
Speaker 2: is going to be a defense. I don't think that's
37:56
Speaker 2: going to work here. To doctor Kendall Crown's, chief medical
37:59
Speaker 2: examiner in Fort Worth, Doctor Crown's, it's amazing that he's
38:03
Speaker 2: only been shot once since apparently Sydney Maun fired a
38:09
Speaker 2: spray of bullets.
38:11
Speaker 6: Well, she has been a moving vehicle and shooting, probably
38:15
Speaker 6: hanging out the back window, because I assume she didn't
38:18
Speaker 6: blow out the back window of her car. So if
38:21
Speaker 6: she is shooting a spray of bullets at out of
38:23
Speaker 6: a moving car at a moving target, unless she has
38:27
Speaker 6: military training or police training, I doubt she would hit
38:31
Speaker 6: the individual that many times. Now, if he was shot
38:35
Speaker 6: multiple times, I would assume that she was probably outside
38:38
Speaker 6: of the car and shot him up from the street level.
38:41
Speaker 6: Probably at the closer range, because I'm sure she's not
38:44
Speaker 6: probably an accurate shot.
38:45
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting that you just said, Well, everything
38:48
Speaker 2: that you just said, doctor Kendall Crown's is interesting, as
38:51
Speaker 2: it always is. But hanging out the window, that's significant,
38:58
Speaker 2: Raymond Judicay. That another level of intent. She's not just
39:04
Speaker 2: cowering in the back seat. She goes to the effort
39:07
Speaker 2: to hang out the window. Because doctor Kindle Crowns is right,
39:11
Speaker 2: the defendant's car windows were not shattered. She had to
39:15
Speaker 2: hang out the window and turn back, contort herself out
39:19
Speaker 2: the window to shoot this guy dead.
39:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, as creative as many good criminal defense lawyers can be,
39:26
Speaker 4: trying to fashion a self defense claim for Sydney the
39:31
Speaker 4: shooter is going to be extremely difficult for all the
39:34
Speaker 4: reasons that all of your panel have pointed out. I
39:37
Speaker 4: wanted to point out one quick thing. She has also
39:40
Speaker 4: been charged in addition to the homicide with family violence,
39:45
Speaker 4: meaning there was a relationship alleged between she and the victim.
39:51
Speaker 4: That means there's a you don't have to be a
39:52
Speaker 4: family member to be charged under the family violence doctor, boyfriend, girlfriend,
39:56
Speaker 4: former lovers that can all fall under that umbrella. In Georgia.
40:00
Speaker 4: That means it's going to be a history, in my
40:02
Speaker 4: opinion of angry cell phone messages, text messages, there's a
40:07
Speaker 4: track that led up to this faithful, fatal event.
40:11
Speaker 2: So it may not have been all about the egging.
40:14
Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying.
40:15
Speaker 4: I think the egging is a manifestation of a heated
40:19
Speaker 4: a heated relationship that culminated in a murder. Yes, that's
40:24
Speaker 4: what I would if I was prosecutor. That's how I
40:26
Speaker 4: would build this up. As you know, Nancy as crescendo
40:30
Speaker 4: that the shooting was not maybe planned, but the anger
40:36
Speaker 4: and the wanting to harm this gentleman in some way
40:40
Speaker 4: was in her mind.
40:42
Speaker 2: And when you say planned, Raymond Gudja, you are using
40:45
Speaker 2: the layperson definition of planned, such as a long thought
40:50
Speaker 2: out plan like poisoning someone over a period of months,
40:54
Speaker 2: as opposed to the actual letter of the law that
40:56
Speaker 2: says intent can be formed and the twinkling of an
41:01
Speaker 2: eye a moment. The time it takes you to raise
41:04
Speaker 2: a gun and pull the trigger is enough time to
41:07
Speaker 2: form a tent, which equals murder. One we wait as
41:11
Speaker 2: justice unfolds. Good Bye friend,