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Prequel to The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Desolation of Smaug Fan Reaction · This Film is Lit

• 0:09
  Speaker A: On this week's prequel episode. We follow up on our desolation of smile Glistener poles in preview the the Battle of the five Armies. Hello and welcome back to another prequel episode of this film is lit, the podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books. We have quite a bit to get to. We got a lot to talk about with the preview for the Battle of the five Armies and quite a bit of feedback. So we're gonna jump right in to our patron shoutouts.
• 0:40
  Speaker B: I put up with you because your father and mother were our finest patrons. That's why.
• 0:45
  Speaker A: We have two new patrons this week, both joining at the five dollar Hugo award winning level, and they are Matt and Dylan Eldred. Thank you both very much for supporting us at the $5 level. Make sure you go listen to that bonus content. That is, you know, it's what it's there for. So go check it out. We just released our discussion on ten things I hate about you, one of Katie's favorite movies. If you want to hear us discuss that, head on over to patreon.com. this film is lit. You can check it out. And as always, we would like to thank our Academy award winning patrons. And they are Nicole Goble Breens beans and peens. It's back. Thank goodness. Eric Harpo ratified. I legit wondered if I might be a speed reader, but according to several online tests, it turns out no parenthetical. Nathan, this is the one we were talking about. And once I realized you were talking about just the portion of the book from that corresponded to that movie, that's very reasonable. I thought you meant you read the whole book in less than 3 hours, which to me seems really fast.
• 1:52
  Speaker B: I think that would be pretty fast.
• 1:54
  Speaker A: But just the portion that relates to the movie seems totally reasonable. So yeah. Vic Vega, Mathilde Steve from Arizona, ent draft, Ian from Wine country, Winchester's forever, Kelly Napier Grey Hightower gratch justgratch. Shelby's torn between promoting arctic fox copywriting and telling you to read Ocean's echo. That darn skag v. Frank and Alina Starkov. Thank you all very much for your continued support. Katie, it's time to see what the people had to say about the the desolation of Smaug.
• 2:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion, man. On Patreon, we had three votes for the book and one for the movie. Several people answered our question about the giant statue that explodes into gold. I just put the first comment that we got explaining that in here. If it was in a larger comment I left it in. But if you're so if your comment just about that, I did not include all of those, but the first one that we got explaining it was from Ian from wine country. And Ian said the giant statue that molten gold poured into a cold cast, which was knocked away almost immediately. The parts of the gold that touched that cast cooled fast, but the interior remained boiling. When the cast is removed, the cooled gold held together for a tiny bit before the interior boiling gold melted again.
• 3:24
  Speaker A: So I appreciate the responses explaining or saying that. I will say that that was what I assumed happened, I guess I didn't say that in the episode. My question was that it seemed to burst out of and that just, I guess, boils down to pun intended, I guess, like some movie magic or whatever. But to me, it seemed to almost explode out of the statue in a way that seemed to slightly unlike strange and made me question what was going on.
• 3:57
  Speaker B: I guess I don't really know how molten gold would behave in that situation because I don't know anything about molten metals, but it did seem like it seemed like it was coming through with quite more force than I would imagine, at least initially.
• 4:14
  Speaker A: The first few shots, it seems to be exploding out, and then it just kind of collapses, which felt more realistic. But there are some shots where it seems to be, like, exploding out of the, which doesn't make any sense, at least as far as I could place, which is why I speculated that maybe they somehow put, like, the explosive, which makes no sense either. But it was just like. I don't know. But yeah, I think it's just kind of clumsy in general. And I also, I'm assuming, like, that seems like a reasonable explanation. I don't actually know that that's how that would work even. Regardless. Again, we got a lot of people saying that, but it's just like, that seems like a reasonable explanation, but I don't actually know. Like, we gotta get Mythbusters on the case, I guess, and see how that would actually go. Cause here's what I would guess would happen, is that that would happen, but it would not be. And again, this is where the movie magic parts of it, lots of stuff that happens in movies isn't, you know, exactly how it happened in real life. But I would imagine if you did that, if you, like, poured a bunch of metal, molten metal in a casting like that, and then took the casting off before it had time to cool, like, so the outer layer just cooled a little bit. I would think what would happen is the bottom like, it would melt. The bottom would melt almost immediately and it would, like, kind of fall over and like, I don't feel like the way it went in the movie would be what would happen in real life. But I guess we'll never know. Cause you would have to do it with a 30 foot tall.
• 5:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, that would be a hard one for the myth busting.
• 5:46
  Speaker A: I think they could pull it off, honestly. But unfortunately, I think they were still going, I think for a year or two when this movie came out, but they were wrapping up around time this movie came out. So, um. But anyways, yeah, that I would. They would. I would have to see it to know. I mean, you could do it on a small scale, but I don't think that would necessarily, like, you could even do it like a mid level scale. I think you could get pretty, like, even if you did one that was like 5ft tall, you would at least get a feel for, like, what would kind of happen. So I would like to see that because I'm still wondering if it would really even remotely behave like it does in the movie. But. But I agree that the most likely explanation on what they were going for in the movie is what Ian and what other people said because that was kind of what I assumed, but it just still felt weird to me.
• 6:32
  Speaker B: So, yeah, when we talked about it a little bit too after we were getting so many comments because part of the other thing that I struggled with was that the scene, like, the smelting scene before that was so chaotic that I had, like, lost track of what.
• 6:47
  Speaker A: Was happening and where the gold was going.
• 6:49
  Speaker B: So then when it exploded out of this statue, I was kind of like, what?
• 6:53
  Speaker A: So, yeah, there's one I went back and double checked and that scene, I think I didn't watch the entire 15 minutes, like, leading up and then. But I watched, like, the part from, like where the gold starts running down the trough and Thorin gets on the wheelbarrow and rides it down and then he falls off and you. There's like one very brief shot of the gold, molten gold going into the top of like a hole. But I don't think, and I could be wrong about this, but from my memory in the edit of that, it's kind of a problem with the edit that they don't show. Then cut from that to, like a wide of gold going into the statue to really, like, connect in your or into the cast to really connect in your brain, like, what is happening there? Again, I'd have to go back and, like, really dissect the scene to do that. But I think it. I think there's a bit of messy editing in there in terms of, like, not really doing a good job setting up what's it, and maybe that's somewhat intentional to make the reveal a little more surprising.
• 7:51
  Speaker B: I could see that. Yeah.
• 7:53
  Speaker A: You know, like, oh, we did show show. You know, you see the. You do. There is a shot of the gold going into the cast, but like you, I don't think. They haven't established the cast at that point, so you don't really know what it is, and then they don't ever really show you, from my memory, a wide shot of gold going into the cast. And again, I think that's probably like a. In a. I think that choice was done to make the reveal more dramatic. But I think, as we discussed, I think the whole thing is just kind of sloppy.
• 8:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's just kind of messy a little. Our next comment was from Shelby, who said, I enjoyed this movie more than I expected to. I have no strong feelings on the section with Bjorn, so I don't mind it getting trimmed down in the movie in general, I just felt like the action scenes were all about 20% too long. I think the movie would have been much better if they'd trimmed down. But I did like the setup that everyone in this universe will drop everything to fight orcs when they show up. Setting up Battle of the five armies a little bit. Bard was the most interesting of the new characters we meet in this movie.
• 8:59
  Speaker A: That's actually a good point. Real quick. I did like that, too, the fact that. So when the hobbits and the dwarves are escaping in the barrels and then the orcs show up, they all kind of stop worrying about the dwarves and just everybody starts fighting the orcs. And I do agree. I liked that little detail that, like, there's a bigger problem. The doors. We are. We were unsure of what your whole deal was, but we're not going to. We have an attacking horde of Orc now to deal with.
• 9:24
  Speaker B: So Bard was the most interesting of the new characters we meet in this movie, like Azog. I'm glad we get more of him if we're expanding the story. It was as I was watching the final action scene where the dwarves are trying to kill Smaug using the forges, where I said, oh, no, I'm going to give it to the movie again. I have thoughts all caps on what happens next. So I'll put a pin in that for when we get to battle. Of the five armies, other Bilbo going, Abe, shit on the baby spider was brilliant and terrifying. I don't remember how they parallel Bilbo and the ring to Thorin and the Arkenstone in movie three, but it sure feels like they must.
• 10:02
  Speaker A: I would imagine they do, but I.
• 10:04
  Speaker B: Mean, that makes perfect sense. Yes, I guess we'll find out.
• 10:10
  Speaker A: My memory is that it's like Bilbo because of his experience with the ring. Maybe that helps snap Thorin out of his, like, gold.
• 10:19
  Speaker B: Gold fever.
• 10:20
  Speaker A: Gold fever or whatever. I truly don't remember. So I might be wrong, but Shelby.
• 10:25
  Speaker B: Went on to say, always feeling blessed by the Bilbo Thorin crumbs. I didn't know they bothered making even longer versions of the Hobbit movies. I shall have to go searching for more crumbs.
• 10:36
  Speaker A: More about the longer versions later.
• 10:39
  Speaker B: There had to be a less clumsy way for Thranduil to do the old do you know how I got these scars bit.
• 10:46
  Speaker A: I thought that was fine in the movie. I thought the way they did that worked totally fine in the movie.
• 10:50
  Speaker B: It's fine. But I mean, as we discussed, it just doesn't make any sense if you don't know the background lore.
• 10:57
  Speaker A: In that case, yes. Sorry. Thinking about it. Yes, from the perspective of a general audience, I agree that it is clumsy, but I was thinking more of, like, I think the way it's done works fine, if you know. But yes, absolutely. For people who don't, which would be most of the people, like, the vast majority.
• 11:13
  Speaker B: I can't believe you didn't mention the scene where Bilbo's wearing the ring and Thranduil says, I know you're there lurking. But then it turns out he's talking to tariel. That was so creepy.
• 11:24
  Speaker A: I must've been taking. I don't remember that scene. I must have been taking a note during it.
• 11:28
  Speaker B: What do you mean there's no one for Legolas? Have you forsaken Gimli so soon?
• 11:33
  Speaker A: I don't interpret their relationship as romantic or, you know, but I mean, I.
• 11:39
  Speaker B: Think we were talking more like. Well.
• 11:41
  Speaker A: Cause I was talking specifically in the context of. Legolas doesn't have seemingly any romantic partners in the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy or any interest in a romantic partner. And I understand how people would and could do ship Legos Gimli.
• 11:56
  Speaker B: Obviously, that is a totally popular, very popular.
• 11:58
  Speaker A: And I understand that. I don't get that vibe from them personally, but I understand why I don't.
• 12:04
  Speaker B: Have any big opinions on it, honestly. But if we are talking about within the canon of the film, they're not literally paired off at the end like Aragorn and Faramir are.
• 12:18
  Speaker A: And I wasn't even. I truly, to Shelby's point, I wasn't saying that. My point wasn't that even in canon, they're not paired off or have a relationship. I was saying that I didn't get the vibe from Legolas in the original trilogy that he had romantic interest in anybody, period. Like. Like, even whether or not canonically he were, did or did not end up with it or whatever, it's just to me, he doesn't. I don't know. He does not strike me as somebody. He has a very, like, he forms eventually a very deep friendship with Gimli. But to me, it only felt like a very platonic friendship. Like, I never got a moment of, like, ooh, maybe like, that was never. I don't know. Like, there are other things. I see that all the time in movies. We've discussed it, but that was not a thing. A vibe felt with, like, I feel that more with not. And I'm, like, joking, but I feel that more, like, between, like, Aragorn and Boromir in the original movies or I guess just in fellowship because it's the only one Boromir's in, rip. But. But, like, you know, I don't know. Even though I'm mostly joking about that, but, like, I feel more romantic energy between them and their brief interactions than I do between Legolas and Gimli, personally, but.
• 13:33
  Speaker B: All right, fair enough.
• 13:35
  Speaker A: I don't know. Like I said, I'm sure I'm very alone there because I'm aware that it's.
• 13:39
  Speaker B: A very popular ship. Very popular ship. Shelby went on to say there's probably ace head cannons out there for just about every lord of the Rings character. Considering the focus on emotional bonding in this franchise, that makes sense.
• 13:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Speaker B: I love that. For the past two summer series, your feedback was, stop telling us how long it's been since things happened. And in this series, it's the opposite of.
• 14:02
  Speaker A: I don't know if it's. I don't know if our feedback is that it should. The movies need to tell us more of how long it's been since thing happened. So much as that you can tell it's not been very like the movie doesn't.
• 14:16
  Speaker B: The movie is not communicating the passage of time as well as it could.
• 14:21
  Speaker A: And then when it does, it severely truncates it.
• 14:25
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 14:25
  Speaker A: Like, that's the thing, is that there are times in the movie where they do explicitly tell you like. Like we said, like, at Laketown, they specifically say we got to leave the day after tomorrow, so they're literally in Lake town for a day, whereas in the book, they're in for two weeks or whatever. So they do tell sometime. I think at least my opinion on it is that at times, it's hard to tell, but to me, that's less to do with the actual exposition and explicitly stating how much time has passed and more to do with the pacing of the films and the manner in which the scenes are, like, edited. Like, for instance, I didn't need them to explicitly tell me how long they were in Mirkwood in the beginning of this movie, but we talked about what they could have done, which wouldn't be explicitly telling us, is show several night scenes in between during the montage. Show some night scenes, show some day scenes. Now, we know it's been at least several days, maybe weeks. We don't know. Whereas it seems to all take place in an afternoon.
• 15:22
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 15:23
  Speaker A: In the movie. So it's like.
• 15:24
  Speaker B: It feels like it does. Yeah.
• 15:25
  Speaker A: At least it feels like it does. Yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker B: But that was very annoying in the 50 Shades trilogy.
• 15:30
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 15:32
  Speaker B: And also laid bare some of the more problematic elements.
• 15:36
  Speaker A: Yes. Yes.
• 15:38
  Speaker B: We don't need to revisit that. Continuing with Shelby's feedback, when we get to Laketown, there's a brief shot of pugs presumably living on the streets, and it sent me into a world building spiral about the implications of pugs also existing in middle earth. And I did notice the pugs. Oh, did you? I was like, yeah, Shirley's. Yeah, somebody's pet.
• 16:03
  Speaker A: I actually think I have a memory now of a IMDb trivia fact about that that I didn't include. Cause I didn't think it was interesting, but I could. I would have to go back and find it. But I do think that it probably was, like, somebody's.
• 16:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, some crew member or something.
• 16:17
  Speaker A: I even have a memory of that. It may be a false one, but I have a memory of reading something about that.
• 16:22
  Speaker B: But, I mean, truly, the existence of designer dog breeding in middle earth would be. That would be an interesting world building implication.
• 16:34
  Speaker A: They do. The wargs are essentially bred. I believe the implication is that they're bred to be, like, war things. There kind of is already.
• 16:45
  Speaker B: I know dragons greater than sign wyverns. Dragons are better than wyverns because I have not been corrupted by Game of Thrones. Well, you know.
• 16:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, more on that later.
• 16:57
  Speaker B: If it's not for you, it's not for you.
• 16:59
  Speaker A: I just want to say it's Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh's pet dogs. I knew I saw something like that somewhere.
• 17:08
  Speaker B: I only saw these movies as they came out, and I remembered very little of movies two and three. I'm looking forward to knowing who the F Legolas is fighting at the start of battle of the five armies this time.
• 17:20
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
• 17:21
  Speaker B: So I guess he must be. Yeah, he must be fighting Bolg.
• 17:23
  Speaker A: Bolg.
• 17:24
  Speaker B: The sword Legolas stole from Thorin was supposed to glow around orcs too, wasn't it? Maybe that was a thing they only wanted sting to do for the movies.
• 17:33
  Speaker A: I think we discussed that in the previous episode.
• 17:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, we talked about that in one of the previous episodes.
• 17:38
  Speaker A: You had a question about, like, do other or something. I think it was maybe the first episode. Like the first main episode we discussed during lost, an adaptation, potentially. Like our. You said, like, do all elf blades grow? And from what I was able to research that Orcris should, but that the thought was that in the original or. And glamdring should as well, and I believe does in the video games, I could be wrong about that, but in the Lord of the Rings movie video games, I feel like. Because you could play Gandalf and I feel like glamdring glows in that. I could be wrong about that. But the speculation is that Peter Jackson wanted sting to be more special, like you said. But also they didn't want in the original one, if glamdring is glowing, I guess that would be the only other one. Because the other ones aren't. Well, no, because. But I don't remember if Anduril is supposed to glow or not. Because it is an elfin blade, too. Yeah, I think. Well, it's reforged by the elves. I don't remember if they were the ones who made it originally. It's probably a human blade. Originally it looks different than all the elf blades. So it's probably a human blade. And then the elves reforge it. I don't know if that would make it glow or not, but I don't.
• 18:49
  Speaker B: Know how they make them glow. So I assume moon magic or something.
• 18:53
  Speaker A: Would be my guess. Or something similar to how. I would imagine. Similar to how they do the moon. Yeah, the moon runs like some sort of moon magic.
• 18:59
  Speaker B: I would think then that we'll probably.
• 19:02
  Speaker A: See it in rings of power.
• 19:03
  Speaker B: Would always have, like, all of his weapons, all of his blades should glow.
• 19:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, you would think.
• 19:08
  Speaker B: I would think. Cause he's, like, elven royalty.
• 19:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, it's who knows?
• 19:15
  Speaker B: We're really getting into the weeds.
• 19:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, they gotta get into the weeds.
• 19:17
  Speaker B: The lore.
• 19:18
  Speaker A: But point being that yes, Orcris should glow. I believe glamdring should glow and they don't because they just didn't want him to, right?
• 19:27
  Speaker B: Our next comment was from Nathan who said I missed the poll but definitely voting for the book. I found this movie to be much more frustrating than the first one in its changes. I didn't care at all about Gandalf's side quest, and while I liked Tarriel Fine and didn't mind Legolas being around, it really didn't seem like we needed both of them in the movie, especially since this leads to a love triangle. The other leg of that triangle was even less pleasant as Keeley and Tarriel had zero chemistry to my eye and started their relationship with a dick joke, which just seems like a creepy choice.
• 20:02
  Speaker A: I would agree with that. I meant to mention that I did not like that line in the movie where he's like, oh, something down his trout that was.
• 20:11
  Speaker B: I don't remember that at all.
• 20:13
  Speaker A: When they first meet, she's like searching everybody or whatever and he's like are you sure you don't want to search me? You never know what you find out, my trout. Something like that. It's just a terrible dick joke. But after that I thought I liked their interaction, but that in particular I agree.
• 20:29
  Speaker B: Even more frustrating than the additions was the portrayal of Bilbo with the spiders and Smaug. I find those two scenes to be probably my favorite parts of the book. In my head, Bilbo was darting all over the webs while mocking and murdering unsuspecting spiders, which would have been cool to see and also made Bilbo seem more competent, sort of in the opposite. In the scene with Smaug, I wish it was more of just a conversation than the chase scene. They made it. There is a sense of dread in the book because it's obvious that Smaug could easily destroy Bilbo, but he chooses not to because of a mix of interest in their conversation and confusion caused by the ring, both of which could go away in a second. Seeing Smaug ineffectively chase Bilbo when he isn't even wearing the ring really changes the vibe in a way that I think punctures the fear of Smaug, who kind of seems like Tom chasing Jerry.
• 21:21
  Speaker A: I will say I don't know if I agree with that part. I felt a similar level of like at least my experience watching movie. Obviously I felt a similar level of tension and that Smaug was just toying with Bilbo when he's kind of like chasing him because he's not really chasing him in their conversation, he's just kind of like looking for him. But I interpreted it in the same way or similarly to the book in the sense that he could have just killed him at any point but didn't want to because he was interested and wanted to know what he had to say. But I get what you're saying, but I felt like those scenes were in my head. What I got in the book felt more felt fairly similar to how it plays out in the movie. Just that part, everything after that first interaction with Bilbo. I agree all the chasing and nonsense, but I didn't mind the first part with Bilbo.
• 22:12
  Speaker B: Nathan went on to say, I really feel like this is one of the best done parts of the book and really important to the story, so it seems bizarre to change it. A few random final thoughts. I think the statue melting was probably just laziness by the movie, but if I had to explain it, maybe only the outside was hardened so it fell apart when the inside melted through. Stephen Fry shows up reprising his role from red, white and royal blue as a monarch slash leader who sucks. Is this a thing he does a lot because he is quite good at?
• 22:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know, but it is twice, which, you know, is interesting.
• 22:47
  Speaker B: I want to watch a version of the Hobbit with an arrested development style narrator so we can get the spider insults comment and then we would also have the proper tone so the Eagles can just show up randomly in the first film.
• 22:59
  Speaker A: I do think that could have worked, doing even more storybook style with a kind of snarky. Maybe not snarky, but, you know, a.
• 23:07
  Speaker B: Narrator who has a little sense of.
• 23:09
  Speaker A: Humor and some jokes and stuff.
• 23:11
  Speaker B: Nathan's final thought here was I appreciate that they had keely of all the dwarves get poisoned since spoiler alert, I guess he does die in the book, so it seemed more believable that he might perish even if the romance plot indicated that was unlikely. Also, they set up his mom waiting for him at home, so I will be more devastated if he does end up dying in the next film.
• 23:35
  Speaker A: I didn't remember that any of them died in the books and I I don't remember at all what happens in the movie.
• 23:43
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 23:44
  Speaker A: I'm almost done with the book now, but I am not to that point yet.
• 23:46
  Speaker B: So all right over on Facebook. We had six votes for the book and zero for the movie. And Lassa said, first of all, I'm sorry that I only recently have started to interact with you this way since I am a huge fan of your podcast. That's okay. We're happy you're interacting now. It's such a joy listening to you and you give some great insights. You both know your stuff, obviously, and it more than shows. Now, about the movie, I think this is an interesting mixture of some darker fantasy material mixed with the playful stuff from the original book. They don't always fit together, but each moment works well on its own pretty well. I noticed that you barely spoke about the master of Laketown and his assistant, and I think they are a nice and fun addition.
• 24:33
  Speaker A: We did mention, or at least I mentioned, liking the addition of the politics and expanding their role. We didn't go on in great deal about it or detail about it. We'll probably talk more about it in the next well, maybe not. I don't know how much of a role they play in the next one. There's definitely some capacity.
• 24:47
  Speaker B: Probably some at least. I highly recommend you to check out the behind the scenes material about Stephen Fry and Ryan Gage. The banter they have, especially in the test screen, is extremely funny. It's only in the third movie when the master is gone, that the character of Aldred, the assistant, gets grating. Funnily enough, some of the material that's missing from the book you mentioned is actually included in the extended edition we mentioned.
• 25:13
  Speaker A: That would probably be the case.
• 25:15
  Speaker B: They do the introducing the dwarves in small groups to bjorn in a slightly different way, but it works much better as a true introduction to the character. They should have kept that scene because that way the design also gets a better reveal. In the theatrical cut, he is just suddenly there and it is too much at once.
• 25:33
  Speaker A: I'm interested to see how that works with the because he would have seen.
• 25:38
  Speaker B: Them all at that point, unless it's like completely different. Yeah, in the extended edition, his true face reveal, etcetera gets a much better buildup and makes the design work really nicely. Another scene that's included is the river crossing, including Thorin trying to shoot the stag and bomber falling in the water, giving Bard a family and fleshing him out more made sense and works well, but I don't like how they handled the black arrow. In the book, he is simply a good shot with the bow. It's more about the weakness of the dragon itself rather than a special weapon. Even within the logic of this movie, any blade could pierce that spot. It's just really generic and dumb in my opinion.
• 26:21
  Speaker A: So I kind of agree in the sense that it does seem like just any arrow could pierce it. But the book does make a specific point of saying a black arrow.
• 26:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, but isn't it just like his lucky arrow?
• 26:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. So. So the movie expands that into a specific like special type of arrow or whatever. And I agree with the whole thing with the like the special like Ballista thing or whatever. Doesn't seem like it's necessary. But the movie or the book does at least mention it being some special. And I think he said he got it from his ancestors. So like there is the movie just took that and expanded on a little bit. It's not like it completely invented it out like this idea out of whole clock, but it does. I agree that it does play it up in a way that feels a little, I don't know, video gamey kind of.
• 27:06
  Speaker B: I actually enjoyed all the action stuff, even the barrels. The bomber part made me laugh like crazy in the theater. I almost fell onto the floor. And the stuff with Smaug at least the conversation with Bilbo is just absolutely brilliant. But it's obvious they basically pulled the whole mountain fight out of their collective asses and made it up as they went along. You can also tell where they didnt have time to properly touch up the effects. Fun. The part at the very end when the music fades out as Smog says his last line was created totally on accident.
• 27:39
  Speaker A: Im a genius. I called that.
• 27:41
  Speaker B: They were sitting in the mixing room and Peter Jackson wasnt satisfied with how the scene played out.
• 27:47
  Speaker A: Thats exactly what I imagined happening.
• 27:49
  Speaker B: So they toyed around with it. Somebody accidentally muted or cut part of the track score right before they watched it once again and Peter liked the effect. It created a lot. As far as I recall, the music actually goes on for a bit longer on the soundtrack album.
• 28:03
  Speaker A: That completely is what I imagined. I'm glad to hear that confirmed because that is literally exactly how I imagined that happened. Having edited a lot of stuff in my lifetime, that kind of stuff happens all the time and it just felt like one of those things. I know as a guy who edits a lot, I know one of those moments that you just find in the editing room that isn't like a scripted thing.
• 28:29
  Speaker B: Lastly, I highly recommend you two to actually watch the extended edition of Battle of the five Armies for the podcast. There is some questionable action stuff you'll have to endure. Isn't there always but they cut so many scenes from the theatrical version that they actually created some plot holes because of it. That would explain why everybody remembers the third movie as being so bad. The extended edition has some really satisfying bits, including one really important scene that's also in the book. Keep up the wonderful work. I adore your podcast so much. Also, Brian, please say hello to Kyle since I am a big fan of good bad or bad bad as well. Festive wishes, lasse vote from Germany.
• 29:11
  Speaker A: Fantastic. Will do. I'll let Kyle know. And thank you. And I'll just say now I do. We haven't discussed this, but I want to watch this extended version for this final one. Here's the thing, if we must. Here's the thing. I looked at it. It's only like 20 minutes long. It's not that much.
• 29:25
  Speaker B: All right, fair enough.
• 29:26
  Speaker A: And so the original, the theatrical cut of this movie is like 220 and the extended edition is 240. I think the extended edition is still shorter than the regular versions of the first two movies. So.
• 29:38
  Speaker B: Goodness.
• 29:38
  Speaker A: Point being, it's not like. It's not like we're adding an hour worth of content on to watch. And after reading this, I was like, okay, that seems worthwhile. And obviously it'll contrast with the other one, but we couldn't have done it for the first one unless we ordered a Blu ray way ahead of time. And so we're really only missing it for the second one. And I don't know how much it would have changed our experience, but the fact that it seemingly. I think we're going to do the extended edition for. I'm not going to say I think we're going to do the extended edition for Battle of the five Armies. Okay. If it was an hour longer, we'd probably just do the theatrical cut, but 20 minutes, it's whatever. If it really helps that much, I'm.
• 30:13
  Speaker B: Interested to see our next comment was from Crystal. And Crystal said, I have an unpopular opinion of sorts that I don't believe was mentioned. I always felt that they could have easily made some of the dwarves female. I understand not wanting to gender bend any of the fellowship since they have their own unique appearance and fantasy aspects and their own journeys. But some of the background dwarves and the Hobbit barely have names. I think it could have been a really interesting mixed or even include Thorin's sister dis d I s. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right. Feely and kilis mom maybe go more into that. Thorin has no children and Fili is the heir presumptive. On a different note, I wonder if the filmmakers were trying to build to a darker ending in the hobbit instead of letting it be whimsical so that the darker moments would be more impactful. They ran with it to tie in more with Lord of the Rings.
• 31:11
  Speaker A: I mean, your opinion is not unpopular. Me, I wouldn't have minded if they had made some of women. I don't. I don't have strong feelings either way because there's. I mean, here's the thing. I will say this. They. If they had done that, they would have had to do it. In my opinion. If you're going to do it, you would have needed to do it to some of the dwarves that had a bigger role because.
• 31:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not sure. Gender swapping poorly.
• 31:35
  Speaker A: Just gender swapping. Some of the background dwarves that we never interact with or hear from. Or it's like, okay. I mean, okay, you can, like, it's fine, but it doesn't. And, you know, like, that would feel kind of weird to just be like, yeah, we got. Look, we made. We made oin a girl or whatever, and it's like, okay, but it would.
• 31:57
  Speaker B: Be about as impactful as the background gay characters in Disney.
• 32:02
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Same vibe, that kind of thing, where it's like, yeah, and, but, yeah, I mean, I. But it would have been interesting if they would have done something interesting with it. You know what I mean? If they would have found a way to do something interesting with it. And also, I don't think you, again, I don't think you have to do something super interesting. There could also just make them a woman and whatever. I don't know. I wouldn't have cared either way. Personally, I think it's fine. I think it would have been fine. Obviously, they would have dealt with a bunch of shitheads, although maybe less so bad, probably.
• 32:36
  Speaker B: And probably fewer than if they had gender swabs. One of the original fellowship.
• 32:42
  Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Less than that. And. And also just, I think, even less than today because it's not that there was none of it, but this is, like, 2013, or the first one came out in 2012. The weird culture war shit about that was not nearly as ramped up as it was. Like, there was plenty of shithead people voicing shithead opinions, but there wasn't, like, an industrial, like, slop complex of, like, pumping out YouTube video after YouTube video, bitching about how they gender swapped some or how there's a black dwarf and rings of power. You know what I mean? There wasn't, like, this built up infrastructure to complain about that kind of thing, so people would have complained about it, but it would not have been the same sort of fake outrage that it is today with.
• 33:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, this is a great society. I love it here.
• 33:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's fantastic.
• 33:34
  Speaker B: It's great. Our last comment on Facebook was from Adam, who said, dragon v. Wyvern discourse is my own personal GiF pronunciation debate. That is something I will argue about furiously, but don't really care about one way or the other.
• 33:51
  Speaker A: Yes, team don't care one way or.
• 33:53
  Speaker B: The other in that I think dragon and Wyvern and Drake and whatever else are all just synonyms, and I don't care. Whatever 20th century author decided to arbitrarily delineate them says, and I'm just gonna pop in real quick and say that that distinction actually goes back as far as the 16th century because it has to do with family crests and heraldry, not to, like, start a fight with you or anything. Adam. Adam went on to say, I also think the four limb body plan for dragons is the superior one in an earth like setting, including wingless, asian style dragons, since we don't have any chordates with a six limb body plan.
• 34:36
  Speaker A: I don't particularly like. I get what you're saying. I don't particularly care.
• 34:41
  Speaker B: I don't care about, like, the science.
• 34:43
  Speaker A: Of it, of the dragons. Personally, I think the Wyvern style ones look cooler, and they do. I will agree that they look, if you wanted, if your goal is to create a universe that feel like an earth based fantasy universe that feels more realistic and like it could have happened or could happen in the future or something, then I think that, like, the forelimb version makes more sense because it does feel more realistic because it is, you know, like you said, it tracks more in line with the actual animals on earth, you know, and that sort.
• 35:17
  Speaker B: Of thing, what does it, though.
• 35:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, because.
• 35:23
  Speaker B: But there are plenty of animals that have, like, winged front limbs, are there not?
• 35:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. And that would be the four legged one. Yes, because he's saying there aren't six limb body plans. The six limb one would be the traditional trap.
• 35:38
  Speaker B: I thought he was saying four legs and then plus, then weight. Never mind. Strike my comment.
• 35:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, he's saying that the forelimb one, the wyvern one, is more realistic because there aren't really animals on earth that have four legs and then wings on their backs.
• 35:54
  Speaker B: That makes sense. That makes more sense.
• 35:56
  Speaker A: And like I said, I don't really care how realistic something like that is generally in a fantasy. Like, whatever. Whatever you want to do for your story is fine. Like, whatever you find more interesting or whatever, I don't care. But if your goal was I want to create, like, a somewhat real feeling dragon, then that probably makes more sense. So I agree with you in that regard. And I also just like them visually.
• 36:17
  Speaker B: I think we could tie that back to also because we talked about. I think we talked about this, that, like, the Wyvern style dragons are often, like, scarier.
• 36:27
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 36:27
  Speaker B: And where the, like, more like, the dragon. Dragon style dragons feel more comical. And I feel like that maybe because we are connecting them to more like, a real world.
• 36:38
  Speaker A: Yes. Our brains know that the one with the.
• 36:40
  Speaker B: It feels more possible.
• 36:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. Whereas the puff the Magic Dragon version feels like, okay, well, that's not a real type of thing that exists. So, yeah, I would agree with that. That for certain uses, I think the certain ones are superior. But again, depending on your story, I don't care at all how. Just do whatever you want.
• 37:01
  Speaker B: Personally, we didn't have any comments on twitter, but we did have six votes for the book, zero for the movie on instagram. We also had six votes for the book and three for the movie. Anal fracture 42, said, I just really, really like Laketown. That's really it.
• 37:21
  Speaker A: Fair. I agree.
• 37:22
  Speaker B: I also like the design of Lake Town.
• 37:25
  Speaker A: I have Lake town a lot. I like that it feels nordic a little bit. Some of the architecture specifically, there's, like, this church, you see, that, I swear, is based on this real weird church in, like, Norway or something, probably. I've seen this. That there's this one famous old, like, church somewhere. I say old. I don't know how old it is, but. And I want to say somewhere in the scandinavian, eastern, you know, or western european, northwestern european area, maybe like, Latvia or something. I don't know. That had that. I think that the church in Laketown was specifically modeled after. That's a very cool building that you see pop up on Twitter, lists of cool architecture stuff. But it is. Yeah, I agree. I like to look at Lake town a lot.
• 38:08
  Speaker B: And our other comment on Instagram was from Melissa. And Melissa said, my answer will be the book until we get to the animated movie. Five exclamation marks. I hope it's soon. And I did respond to Melissa. Melissa is also my cousin. Hi, Melissa.
• 38:26
  Speaker A: I didn't know what Melissa it was.
• 38:28
  Speaker B: And I just want to clear the air, though. And we already announced this on Patreon, so it's fine that we are going to talk about the 77 animated movie as our August Patreon bonus episode. Yeah.
• 38:41
  Speaker A: So if you want to hear us talk about the animated movie. Yeah, August.
• 38:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, the August sometime.
• 38:48
  Speaker A: Yeah, middle ish of August or something like that.
• 38:52
  Speaker B: Over on threads, we had one vote for the book, zero for the movie. No comments. And then on Goodreads, we had one vote for the book, zero for the movie. And Miko said, again, I find myself agreeing with you. Like last time, I found myself enjoying the movie more than I was expecting, based on my memories. Maybe knowing that the over the top CGI fights are coming help soften the blow. But still, every action scene could lose a third, if not more. Yes, the Kili tarriel thing bothers me a bit, but mainly because Kili is such a nothing character, like almost every dwarf before the romance, so it's hard to care. Also, he doesn't look like a dwarf, but just a small, traditionally handsome human.
• 39:37
  Speaker A: As I've talked about that in the first episode specifically. But his design in particular, his design.
• 39:41
  Speaker B: Is just a gorgeous. It's like particularly egregious.
• 39:44
  Speaker A: Like, Thorin looks mostly like a dude, but he still feels like I could.
• 39:48
  Speaker B: Buy him as a dwarf.
• 39:50
  Speaker A: Kili just looks like a guy.
• 39:51
  Speaker B: He just looks like a guy.
• 39:53
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:54
  Speaker B: Mika went on to say that too might play a part in making the romance feel manufactured.
• 39:59
  Speaker A: I agree. Cause that's the thing that makes it feel weird because.
• 40:03
  Speaker B: Because he was very clearly left handsome for that.
• 40:06
  Speaker A: Yes. Well, and I think doors, again, I think you could make him quote unquote handsome and still make him look like a dwarf. And I think it actually cheapens. Cause I mentioned in the episode, I was like, I like, kind of exploring the idea in the Tolkien universe of an interrelational, interracial relationship. I don't know. Again, I feel like from my memory, they don't really do much interesting with it, but there's at least an interesting idea there that could be explored. But I think also that is weirdly cheapened or made less interesting when you make the dwarf look like a human. And then the elf, she looks like an elf, I guess, but she doesn't look as elfish as like, sarandog or like some of the other ones. So it's like you really have the two most human looking versions of their respective races. And so it's like, I mean, I guess, but like, yeah, human washing, which is maybe problematic in its own way. I don't know. I don't even know how to mess or just with or discuss that it just. I don't know. It's like, my point isn't that they. That we need more stereotypes in these rules. I'm just. It just feels weird to. The whole thing feels weird.
• 41:19
  Speaker B: Well, it does, because it feels like the filmmakers wanted to do this thing but they were like, well, nobody's gonna buy it if he looks like a short, hairy like the rest of the.
• 41:30
  Speaker A: Dwarves do or like most of the other dwarves do. Yeah.
• 41:33
  Speaker B: So we have to make him, like, traditionally handsome. Yeah, it's very, very silly. Miko went on to say, I still remember my first thought when seeing the end for the first time. That's how it ends.
• 41:47
  Speaker A: I had the same thought.
• 41:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, the quiet ending works, but it comes so soon after the final fight that it causes whiplash. Like you said, with better pacing, this movie could possibly be a lot better without any plot changes. I liked the change with the hidden door. So it's the moon's and not the sun's rays that reveal it. It gives Bilbo another chance to show his cleverness, figuring it out. Sure, the dwarves were maybe a bit too quick to give up and the finished translation of the clue clearly changed between the first and second movie accommodate the change, but it's still a fine change, in my opinion. But for every good change, there's stuff like Thorin boating on a river of molten gold approximately 1064 degrees celsius, 1984 degrees fahrenheit in a wheelbarrow or bomber hitting every single orc with his bouncing barrel. So the book is better.
• 42:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I normally like, that's one of those things that is definitely a little bit of a nitpick. But it is so comically he gets on that wheelbarrow. It's like, sure. Even if I buy that the wheelbarrow is made out of, like, some magic metal that doesn't, you know, that's super insulated and doesn't get hot. He's still inches away from molten. Like a whole river of molten gold. And it's so silly. Yeah. It's just the whole thing. A lot of those little details are just like, okay, whatever.
• 43:11
  Speaker B: So once again, the book absolutely trounced the movie with 23 votes to the movie's four.
• 43:17
  Speaker A: All right, that's it for our listener feedback. Thank you all very much. One more to go in our Hobbit summer series. So make sure you get that feedback in, in two weeks after our next Hobbit episode. But right now we're going. We've mentioned we don't. We're not doing the book preview again, because we already did that in the first episode of this series. You can go back if you want to listen to the prequel episode for the first Hobbit movie. We previewed the book there, so we're just going to jump right into our preview of the Hobbit. The battle of the five Armor.
• 43:48
  Speaker B: Thorin, you gave a promise.
• 43:56
  Speaker A: You brought upon them only ruin and death.
• 44:04
  Speaker B: You've won the mountain.
• 44:05
  Speaker A: Is that not enough? Now we defend it. I came to reclaim something of mine.
• 44:26
  Speaker B: This was the last move in a master plan, a plan long in the making.
• 44:37
  Speaker A: These bats are bread for one purpose, for war. Leave Sauron to me.
• 44:53
  Speaker B: Yes, it is. I keep leaving that out because it feels very strange to say, but it is the battle of the five armies.
• 45:00
  Speaker A: Instead of the battle, because I had my notes say the battle of five armies. But yes, the battle of the five Armies is a 2014 film directed by Peter Jackson, known for Lord of the Rings, Bad Taste, King Kong, the Lovely Bones, the frighteners, heavenly creatures, written by Fran Walsh, who is his wife. Known for Lord of the Rings, dead alive, mortal engines, King Kong, the lovely bones, heavenly creatures and Philippa Boyens, known for Lord of the Rings, King Kong, the lovely Bones, mortal engines, Peter Jackson and Guillermo del Toro has a credit, even though at this point I can't.
• 45:28
  Speaker B: Fathom he had much.
• 45:30
  Speaker A: I don't know if anything in this movie has much to do with what he was writing, so who knows? But Guillermo del Toro, known for Pan's labyrinth, shape of Water, Pinocchio, Crimson Peak, Nightmare Alley, Pacific Rim, and others. The film stars Ian McKellen, Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage, Evangeline Lilly Lee Pace, Luke Evans, Benedict Cumberbatch, Ken Stott, James Nesbitt, Kate Blanchett, Ian Holm, Christopher Lee, Hugo Weaving, and Orlando Bloom, among quite a few others. This one has a 59% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 59% on Metacritic, and a 7.4 out of ten on IMDb. I meant to do this in the last prequel episode, but I did it this time. I went back and got the other previous scores just so we can compare right here. So again, that's 59% on Rotten Tomatoes. For comparison, the second movie has a 75% on Rotten Tomatoes, and the first movie has a 64% on Rotten Tomatoes. So the second movie is the highest rated on Rotten Tomatoes. This one has a 59% on Metacritic, the second one has a 66 on Metacritic, and the first one has a 58. So again, the second one is the highest reviewed, and this one has a 7.4 out of ten on IMDb. The second one has a 7.8 and the first one has a 7.8. So across the board, this is the lowest reviewed film.
• 46:41
  Speaker B: Good.
• 46:42
  Speaker A: Yes, but we're going to watch the extended version, which probably make it a ten out of ten. Can't wait. The film made 962.2 million against a budget of roughly 300 million. And it was only nominated for one Oscar, this time for best sound editing. So again, production primarily done at the same time as the first two movies. So reverb back to those prequel episodes if you want more information or Lindsay Ellis fantastic series on the making of the Hobbit movies, which explores the fact that this third film was originally not planned. Initially they had planned for just two movies with everything they shot, but then they confirmed the plan for a third film in July of 2012, and they shot some additional footage to flesh out said third film.
• 47:21
  Speaker B: Good.
• 47:22
  Speaker A: But originally this was shot and they shot when they did all the original shooting two films was the plan. Then they got to the end, they're like, we gotta flesh this out. We gotta expand this out. Made a third film and shot some more stuff to add in. So another reason that this third one is probably a bit more of a mess. So the third film was initially subtitled there and back again, but then in 2014, they decided to change the title to the battle of the five Armies because they felt that better reflected, like, what the actual plot of the movie is. Billy Boyd, who played Peregrine tooke in the Lord of the Rings series, actually wrote and recorded the song that plays in the end credits of this film, the Last Goodbye. And then getting into some IMDb trivia, which is most of what I have here, this is the last film to feature Sir Christopher Lee. He passed away shortly after the film released. So for the scenes where Galadriel picks up Gandalf, I don't remember that, but I don't remember a dummy of Sir Ian McKellen was used. This dummy apparently was called Michael Gambon and even included. That name was included on the call sheets because Ian McKellen and Michael Gammon were sometimes mistaken for each other, which I could see. Yeah, the elk that Lee pace rides in the movie is actually a horse named Moose, which is fun.
• 48:35
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 48:35
  Speaker A: The fun combination of things. I love that a horse named Moose playing an elk. This is the only movie in the Hobbit trilogy, as well as the Lord of the Rings that Legolas blinks normally. Gotta get our Legolas blinking facts in. According to this trivia fact, as in the one previously in all other movies, the only time he blinks when he is surprised or injured.
• 48:54
  Speaker B: Okay, we have to remember this time to watch for the blinks.
• 48:58
  Speaker A: Well, this one, it'll just be normal. So it'll just be blinking all over the place. Apparently, supposedly Stephen Fry, who, as we mentioned earlier, plays the master of Laketown, apparently left behind a rather large supply of alcohol when he was done, when he was wrapped on set. And these were given away as gag gifts to other people when they wrapped filming.
• 49:16
  Speaker B: Good for him.
• 49:17
  Speaker A: Yes. A very famous video that people know. On the last day of filming, Sir Peter Jackson recorded a video of Orlando Bloom covering the viral. They're taking the hobbits to Isengard song and shot it on his cell phone. So that's. If you've seen that video, that video.
• 49:33
  Speaker B: Lives in my soul forever.
• 49:35
  Speaker A: The original one or this one with Orlando Bloom doing it.
• 49:37
  Speaker B: The only original one.
• 49:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think I've seen the one of Orlando Bloom doing it, so somewhere I have a memory of that. So this is the only movie in the franchise which includes the Lord of the Rings movies that acknowledges Lagos Quiver, running out of arrows, and all the other movies he never runs out. Apparently in, I think Helms two towers or one of the original ones, you see his quiver empty, but it's never like mentioned. Or you'll see him like run out of arrows. But in this one he does. This is the only Middle earth movie that has any profanity in it, unsurprisingly spoken by Billy Connolly. Sir Billy Connolly, who plays Dane Ironfoot, another dwarf. He yells for all the non dwarf soldiers outside of Erebor to go sodding off, which is a british insult. And he later calls them bastard. Also a fun fact, the extended cut of this movie is the only r rated Lord of the Rings movies. Or Peter Jackson, Lord of the Rings movie. Yes, the extended cut apparently makes it into r. I don't know if it's because of the language or some violence or what. I assume some violence would be violence, blood or whatever, something. But yeah, apparently the extended cut is r rating. This is fascinating. Assuming this is accurate, as of 2018, Orlando Bloom is the only major elf actor in the Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit movies that has not appeared in a Marvel film. Hugo weaving plays Elrond was the red skull in the first Avenger, and I think only that one. I think they got recast later. Liv Tyler plays Arwen, plays Betty Ross in the incredible Hulk 2008, which is the.
• 51:16
  Speaker B: I think that's not the one that we, like pretend that doesn't exist.
• 51:19
  Speaker A: Yes. It's the one with what's his name.
• 51:20
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 51:21
  Speaker A: From Fight Club. Oh, my God. What is that actor's name?
• 51:25
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 51:25
  Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Whatever you guys know I'm talking about, but, yeah. And then he got recast as the other one.
• 51:31
  Speaker B: Mark Ruffle.
• 51:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. Lee Pace, who plays thranduil, played Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel. Evangeline Lily is in Ant Man. Ant man and the wasp. And the other one, Quantumania or whatever. Cate Blanchett is in Ragnarok. And that is all of the major elves.
• 51:49
  Speaker B: I mean, I guess. But what about Figwit?
• 51:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think he makes an appearance, but that's true. That would be the last named elf. That doesn't get it wrong. Yeah, I don't know if that's true. There may be other elves that are like main. I'm trying to think. Nobody else jumps to mind as, like, a named elves.
• 52:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think there are any other named elves, so.
• 52:12
  Speaker A: So this is also the only Peter Jackson, lord of the Rings movie that doesn't start with a flashback, which I hadn't really thought about, but is fascinating. Yeah, all of the other ones. The first lord of the Ring fellowship starts with the epilogue, or the prologue from the War of the Ring. Two towers starts with a flashback to. Oh, no, I just had it and lost it. The previous movie, the Balrog fight with Gandalf.
• 52:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 52:39
  Speaker A: Return of the king starts with the flashback to Smeagol finding the ring in the river. The first one of this starts with the flashback. Well, actually, it's a flash forward.
• 52:49
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I guess it is a flash forward.
• 52:50
  Speaker A: Yeah. Not necessarily a flashback, but an out of time whatever. Like a nonlinear part of the storytelling starts with a flash forward to the old Bilbo. And then the second movie starts with the flashback to Thorin arriving at inhabitants. And this one just jumps right back in.
• 53:08
  Speaker B: Oh, all right.
• 53:10
  Speaker A: And then finally getting to some reviews from Wikipedia. Just reading these straight off here. I have not read them myself yet. Just copy paste. Scott found us writing for Variety, said, quote, the result is at once the trilogy's most engrossing episode, its most expeditious at a comparatively lean 144 minutes, and also its darkest both visually and in terms of the forces that stir in the hearts of men, dwarves, and orcs alike. Todd McCarthy, for the Hollywood Reporter, said, quote, after six films, 13 years, and 1031 minutes of accumulated running time, Peter Jackson has concluded his massively remunerative genuflection at the altar of J. R. R. Tolkien with a film that may be the most purely entertaining of any in the collection. Andrew Pulver for the Guardian said, quote, this film is a fitting cap to an extended series that, if nothing else, has transformed Tolkien's place in the wider culture. That's true. That's kind of a middle, that's like a maybe a damned by faint praise kind of reveal. Chris Tilley for IGN said, quote, there's a little too much padding in the final Hobbit flick, and the best sequence is without a doubt the film's 1st. 1st. But the central battle is spectacular, and as the age of orc approaches, it rounds out this particular story in stirring and emotional fashion. Russell Bale Bailey, writing for the New Zealand Herald, said, something less than supposed, that it is something less than the supposed defining chapter of Jackson's time in middle earth as it's been billed. But action wise, it certainly goes out with a very pleasing bang. Then some negative reviews. Inku Kang, writing for the Wrap, said the 144 minutes running time showcases Jackson's worst tendencies. Eons long battle scenes, sloppy and abrupt resolutions, portentous romances, off rhythmic comic timing and newly, in this case, patience testing. Fan service for the Daily Telegraph, Tim Robey described the film saying, quote, a paragraph on steroids that was neither very terrible nor remotely unexpected. It's series of. It's a series of stomping footnotes in search of a climax. End quote. It's so funny.
• 55:22
  Speaker B: I should have gone into review.
• 55:24
  Speaker A: So funny when you see good reviews versus bad reviews, because like that one earlier, I don't remember who it was. Okay. The Hollywood Reporter, the Peter Jackson has concluded this massively remunerative genuflection at the altar of J. R. R. Tolkien. Yeah, get over yourself. That's terrible. But conversely, it's a series of stomping footnotes in search of a climax is fantastic. It's like just some of these writers, you know, some reviewers are better than others. We'll just say that the BBC's Nicholas Barber wrote that the series wrote that with the Hobbit series, Jackson had succeeded in bridging the gap between the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, saying, quote, it's a colossal technical achievement. But he criticized the film for not being compelling because, quote, it's repetitive battle scenes and a lack of lot. And then Nicholas Rappald rappled fighting for writing, for also maybe fighting, I don't know. The New York Times said, quote, bilbo may fully learn a sense of friendship and duty and have quite a story to tell. But somewhere along the way, Mister Jackson loses much of the magic in the quote. So very mixed reviews on this one, as we said.
• 56:29
  Speaker B: I was going to say, I like that you denoted that these were the negative reviews because the other ones weren't exactly positive.
• 56:37
  Speaker A: The first few were a little more positive, but yes, none of them were, like, super glowing reviews. I mean, like, the first one was pretty positive. The result is once the trilogy's most engrossing episode and its most expeditious and also its dark, that's fairly positive. But yeah, there's, you know, more mixed in general. So that's going to do it for this episode. As always, you can do us a giant favor by heading over to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram grid reads, all those places. You know what we're talking about. Just interact. We'd love to hear from you. Love to hear what you have to say about once we get, you know, the next movie, your opinions on the Battle of the five Armies. You can also support us by heading over to Patreon slash thisfilmislit, support us there and get access to bonus content. Like we said, we're gonna be doing the animated Hobbit next month. We just did ten things I hate about you this month. We did the Rocketeer last month. So many things to talk about or so many things to listen to, rather, if you support us. So go check that out. Katie, where can people watch the the Battle of the five Armies?
• 57:32
  Speaker B: Well, as always, you can check with your local library or a local video rental store if you still have one. Otherwise, you can stream this with a subscription through HBO Max. They have the extended and the theatrical version.
• 57:46
  Speaker A: And like I said, we will be watching the extended edition this time.
• 57:50
  Speaker B: I don't know about what versions are on the other things, but you can rent a version of this movie for around $4 on the Amazon, Apple TV, YouTube, or Fandango at home.
• 58:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, like I said, I decided just to go out with a bang. We're gonna watch the extended edition. Hopefully it does help in the way that Nathan, I can't remember who that was earlier that said that, but somebody up there said, was it Miko?
• 58:15
  Speaker B: I think it was Mel.
• 58:17
  Speaker A: No, it was some. I want to say it was Nathan, but I could be wrong.
• 58:20
  Speaker B: It was.
• 58:21
  Speaker A: It was Lassa from Germany, as many mentioned by Lassa. We'll be watching the extended edition this time. So join us back in one week's time when we're talking about the Hobbit, the battle of the five armies. Until that time, guys, gals, non binary pals and everybody else, keep reading books, keep watching movies, and keep being awesome.