Latest / Building the Best You / PR for Interior Designers

Transcript

PR for Interior Designers · Building the Best You

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I was so afraid to do it and I can't imagine now not doing it.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: And it's whenever there is that fear.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a bit of an indication of like, oh, you know that this is really good, but you don't have a roadmap for it, and going into it blind is what's scary.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, well, especially if you're a planner.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, right, if you're a planner.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Like you said a lot of times, that fear is paralyzing when there isn't a plan that you can see and feel confident in Exactly, and sometimes you just have to roll with the plan.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the House of Germar podcast where wellness starts within.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: The House of Jarmar is a lifestyle brand, empowering women to live all in through interior design and personal wellness.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: We are a destination for women ready to reimagine what is possible in their homes and lives and then create it.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: We are honored to have you join us on our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I am your host, jean Collins, and I invite you to become inspired by this week's guest.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the House of Germar podcast where wellness starts within.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, jean Collins, and today's guest is Elizabeth Etheridge McCann.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I am so excited to talk to her because just a real high level of who Elizabeth is and what she does.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: So Elizabeth and I met maybe four years ago and she became my PR agency and I used Elizabeth for two years after the McCann Group to promote maybe it was even three years to work on the PR for my interior design business, germart Designs, and so Elizabeth is on the show and is going to talk about so many interesting things.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about her career journey, which is really fascinating Her decision to become an entrepreneur and go out on her own.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Her decision to move her family from outside of New York City up to Maine to have a different way and a different lifestyle.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: We're also going to talk about PR in general.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Why would you hire a PR agency?
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: What does she even do?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: What is PR?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: What does that even mean?
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Why would you hire a PR agency?
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: What does she even do?
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: What is PR?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: What does that even mean?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And then I also want to pick her brain a little bit to talk about some of the trends in interior design that she's seeing and what magazines are interested in.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: So everybody, please welcome Elizabeth.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yay, I'm so excited to be here.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Thanks for inviting me.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I've been listening to the podcast and it's fun to hear from friends like Amy Vicio and Andrea Carson, and it's been great to learn more about everyone so super excited.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: It's fun, isn't it?
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: It's great to have them on.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Everyone's got a great story.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: It's really inspiring.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: They really do.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Everyone does.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: So before we move into your story, I just want to make a comment for everybody so everybody understands why I'm wearing my Stetson hat.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: So a couple episodes ago I had Adrian Ramsey on the show and Adrian is an interior designer in Australia and I was on his podcast and he also came and was a guest on mine and he does Dream Homes of Australia and he is a TV host co-host of that and Stetson is one of his sponsors.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: So he is always wearing a Stetson hat and he had this Stetson hat on for the show and it was so gorgeous and I absolutely loved it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: So I was given this as a gift by my boyfriend for my birthday and I love it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: But why I chose to wear it today, other than just loving it, is yesterday, after having on Tuesday, I did a call with Carrie Miller, who is a feng shui expert, and after that I decided my office needed a revamp, and so yesterday morning I woke up and decided I was going to move all the furniture in my office by myself and I have a very large, heavy standing desk, a large five-time.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I decided I was not going to wait for anyone to come and help me and I was going to move all this stuff myself because I was determined to clean my office, move it, new energy all in and, as a result, when I was doing something, my head landed, my eye and my forehead smashed into the window.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: So I am wearing this hat, because this hat is covering the very purple and black and blue that is above my eye, because I decided to do that all by myself.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: But anyway, folks, that just makes me love you that much more because you're such a go-getter.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: That's so, jean, to be like.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to do this right now.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: First of all, my jaw dropped when I saw you, because you look so chic.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: You look like a celebrity with the backdrop and the hat, and then you took a challenge and you turned it into something really cool.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So it's like what's not to love.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I hope your head feels yeah.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: So there we have it.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: So this shadow that's over my eye is actually there on purpose and will remain, and we are not going to change the lighting to make it any better.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: So we move on, anyway, all right, I am so excited to talk to you.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: One of the reasons why we have this podcast is to inspire people about wellness, starting within, and one of the ways that we accomplish that is about sharing our career journeys, because everyone I speak to it is not a linear journey.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: It goes up and down, and a lot of my guests I select because of choices that they've made in their careers and in their lives that promote wellness within.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: So I would love it if you could share with everybody your career journey.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Well.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: It's not linear and I've always been a creative person.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I majored in art history, I was even going to do art, but I've also had a great business mind from early days.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Even in college we're like, oh, you're going to be a business person with, like a fancy scarf and you're going to be off doing that thing.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to be like, you know, like CEO vibes or whatever.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: And my first job out of college I did sales and I was selling international tours abroad and going to London, paris and Rome.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Before I even started I had no idea how good I had it and it was great, but it was very, very salesy.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I was in Boston and not New York City and I realized that I missed the creative energy and I had friends in New York and I was like ready to, you know, conquer New York City, right?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And so I quit my job, didn't have a job lined up because I got the sales job when I was still in college on my dorm room.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So I just thought you know, that's how it happens, right?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Young, 21 years old, and go to New York City, and I decided I'm going to make it in the art world.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: That's what I want to do.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: So I have an interview at Sotheby's on 9-11, 2001.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but nothing like that had ever happened before and I was in Brooklyn and I could see the World Trade Center on fire.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, things happen in New York.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I grown up in Greenwich, outside of New York, so it wasn't new to the city and everyone was just getting on the subway and I, you know, you know New York where, like you, don't things happen and you just kind of go about your day.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: You know New York where things happen and you just kind of go about your day, you're doing your thing.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: But then it got real.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: We were evacuated, people were covered in white dust.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: It was a whole thing, right, crazy, crazy, like just really, you know, very intense thing to be a part of.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: But I did end up going into the art world.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I worked at Sotheby's, I worked at art galleries, I worked at an art magazine.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: It was an amazing time to be in New York City.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: It was super creative.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: But I looked around and I didn't see that being my life long-term.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: It was great for my early 20s, but no one really had a lifestyle that made sense beyond just working and going out, and it was only in New York City.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: So I felt the stress of like I can't do this anywhere else maybe London, but not even on the same scale and I felt so tethered to having to be in the city which is amazing, but there's more to that so we decided to move out to Connecticut and it was a little bit like that uh-oh feeling of, okay, we're not in this creative environment of New York City and what can I do?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: That's creative.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be at a hedge fund.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I would be terrible at it, even if they did hire me.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: And so I got a job working for an interior designer and I had been quite as frankly, a snob about interior designers back in the day when I was in the art world.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I know I'm obsessed with interior designers.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Now, all of my clients about interior designers.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Back in the day when I was in the art world, I know I'm, like, obsessed with interior designers.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Now All of my clients are interior designers.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I'm the biggest cheerleader you'll ever meet for the interior design industry.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: But working in the art world and I think that this is sort of culturally speaking and maybe it's a bit of sexism but there was that idea of, oh, you know, here's this Rothko or here's this Picasso, these very important paintings or artists that I had studied in college and you know a decorator is going to come in and like, match it to the sofa.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: That was sort of the negative connotation which I'm embarrassed to say that I had.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: But I couldn't find a creative job and I didn't want to commute into New York anymore.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I knew that had to change.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: But I was like you know, I was taking a step down.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I felt like a big step by working as an assistant in an interior design firm where I had been like a director of an art gallery in New York City right Right In Connecticut, not New York and I was blown away by how incredibly talented interior designers are and how challenging it is to be a designer.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, even just one throw pillow, all the paperwork and the tape are the things that can go wrong and the way that you need to be able to work with people and work with space and work with color.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: It was so creative.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: There were so many challenges to overcome.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, things constantly go wrong on design projects and I just was like this is amazing what designers do, but I didn't really want to do it myself because it was too hard.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I'm like I love to talk about it and write about it, but I don't really want to be dealing with the wallpaper being backordered or this and that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: So I worked with a design firm on getting a Rizzoli book.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: We did a book.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: This is when social media was just starting you know websites, all of this stuff and I really became the PR and marketing person.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: But then I kind of outgrew that right.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I was like all I wanted to start a family and I'm thinking, okay, well, what would be a great job to start a family.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: You know, we're going to move even further away from New York City, like up higher into Fairfield County where, like, there's like farmland and stuff and I'm going to get a job at the local country club and I can literally like walk there from my house and I can like work part time and be a mom and I'm the communications director of this country club and I don't know why I thought that was a good idea, but it seemed like a good idea.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I love your honesty.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: It took five years to have a child.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I dealt with infertility, which was, honestly unless someone's been through it, I don't think it's possible to understand just how hard that is and how isolating.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's better now, 10 years later, but it was really a tough time, and working at the country club with all the families didn't help that.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And it was not creative, it was golf.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I tried to make the emails on the website as interesting as possible, but I was really not inspired.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: They were great, great people, but it was just not.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: It was like the sales job back in Boston.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: It wasn't creative or juicy enough and so I basically started my own company during that time and I started working with the interior designer.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Again, she missed working with me and then she referred me to other clients and I started working with the interior designer again she missed working with me, and then she referred me to other clients and I built a nice little freelance business and I couldn't wait to come home from the boring job and then I would work, work, work and that would be what I was excited about, right.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: And then I finally got pregnant, after lots of heartache and miscarriage and things not working, and that was the day that I found out that I got pregnant I kid you not was the day that I got my ultimate dream job, which was, in my mind, the best job in the entire world doesn't get any better than this on the day that I found out that I was pregnant.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Amazing yeah, karma and the universe coming together.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, but then not at the right time.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Right Because I had this like low-key job for when I would start a family.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And now the dream job that I want is not low-key.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: It's like all hands on deck and you're giving it all you've got and this is the pinnacle of your career.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: But I knew I had to just go for it.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: That was my gut and I'm glad I did.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I was the director of marketing of a home furnishings company and we had stores in New York and Connecticut.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: The flagship was 100,000 square feet in New York and Connecticut.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: The flagship was 100,000 square feet.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: There were a team of over 20 interior designers.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I was also doing marketing for a licensed furniture collection that was sold globally.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I eventually also started doing the PR for that and then was going down to High Point Market and it was really great.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I made incredible connections, just got such great knowledge of the industry as a whole from the brand side as well as the interior design side and all the partnerships, and we did all of these celebrity design events and it was great.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Once I had my baby, it was still great.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I was still dedicated to my career.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: That did not go away.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I was still all in, but physically and then, sort of like, eventually emotionally it just became so hard to carry it all.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I was one of the last of my friends basically to have a child because I had been through infertility, and so what's nice about that is that I had great friends who could give me insight and basically just say that first year it's just kind of triage.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: You just have to be head down.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: You can't even think about what you want to do with your life because it's just survival.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: So basically don't make any big decisions until you've just sort of gotten through that.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: You're just surviving.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: And so I did my work.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I pumped milk in a Starbucks in New York City and yelled at people that it was going to be a minute, because you know I'm not going to be out of the bathroom five minutes, cause what am I?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: going to do.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like I'm just going to make it work.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Yep Been there, done that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: So I did all of those things and then I and there are a couple of things the business wasn't where I was working, wasn't doing, and Maine has always been a place that I've loved.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I got married up here, I had summers up here, my grandmother lived here, and it was kind of this moment of, oh, I'm a grownup, we're grownups Like we're grownups Newsflash.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: You actually are an adult now and have a child and you can actually decide where you live, right, you don't have to live outside of New York City just because that's what it seems like everyone in your world does or you don't like.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: You can actually just do whatever you want.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: You've got to figure out how to make it work.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: But there are people that live in Maine and maybe we could be some of those people, because I really felt like the Pace in Maine was better for children than the Pace in Fairfield County, which I had experienced myself as a child moving there in fifth grade, and it's great.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Fairfield County is absolutely amazing.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: But there was something about Maine that was calling and there was something about the current lifestyle of being on this hamster wheel and the ambition and not being able to say no to things.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that the real problem was, is that or not a problem?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: But just something that I was contending with is that I'm an ambitious person who loves and gets excited about work, but now I was also a mom that really cared about having a great relationship with my son, who was still, you know, a little baby and, you know, spending time with him and enjoying that and giving him a great childhood, and those were kind of conflicting with each other right, and those were kind of conflicting with each other right.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Moving up to Maine made it feel like it could be easier to balance that ambition.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: You know, being in Maine kind of put some of those guardrails up of.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: You can't do all of the things.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: You have to be more thoughtful and mindful about what you choose to do.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: And for an ambitious person like myself who wanted to make sure I was carving time out for family and just life, that was really helpful.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So we did it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I quit my.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't totally quit my job.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I'm a planner and I'm responsible.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not the biggest risk taker like a lot of women and so I turned my job into a client.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I stayed on as the director of marketing.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Somehow it was so weird because sometimes people don't even know that I lived in Maine.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I wasn't hiding, I would go to the events and could do all of the work, and this was pre-COVID, when people weren't working remotely.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: But it worked.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: It worked really well.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: And then I got other clients and built my business and it was amazing.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I was so afraid to do it and I can't imagine now not doing it.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And it's whenever there is that fear.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: It's a bit of an indication of like oh, you know that this is really good, but you don't have a roadmap for it, and going into it blind is what's scary.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: But what, oh yeah?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Well, especially if you're a planner.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Right, If you're a planner, like you said a lot of times, that fear is paralyzing when there isn't a plan that you can see and feel confident in.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Exactly, and sometimes you just have to roll with the plan, so yeah, so that's how I got up here, and I don't know.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So I have a couple of questions.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So how long did it take you before what let's call it like your side gig right the side gig of you doing PR for designers and then you've got your regular job right?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: How long did it take you until the light bulb went off and you're like, oh wow, maybe the side gig can be big enough that that's what I can do.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: How long did that take?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because there were different moments when that happened.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So when I was at the country club, I had a side gig that you know I could have just taken off with that then at that time and had my own business.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: But then when I was director of marketing and had this big job, that was really all encompassing.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: And then when I moved to Maine, it was really COVID where I felt like, you know, the director of marketing job was the biggest client.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: And then there were other interior designers that I worked with that were like a little bit, you know, still big, and I really loved working with them.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: But it was, there was still this, this big client slash main job, big client slash main job.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: And when COVID hit they had to close all of their showrooms.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: And that ended right, right, they're not spending money, right.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: They're not spending money on PR and marketing when no one can go in and shop, right, and I was ready before that to only be working with interior designers and that's my business, right, and not still having this sort of like quasi director of marketing, quasi client relationship.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: But it was scary to leave that, because money is a thing you know, that's something that we need and it was great it wasn't broken.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: So if it's not broke, don't fix it.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: But I knew that I needed to evolve, but it was just like this little bit of this tough thing.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So, covid, a silver lining of COVID was that it forced me to make this choice that I needed to make, and I think that's something.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Whenever I'm dealing with a tough situation, it's really so often, when you're something's not going the right way or something that you don't expect happens, that you are able to make that leap.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: That's just harder to do when everything's gravy you know?
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you need a little challenge.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you need a little challenge.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about what is PR for people who don't know what PR is.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: What is PR and what is your firm do?
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: The way that I approach PR is relationships.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: So PR relationships is public relationships right so well.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: First of all, I work primarily with interior designers, so I'm very niche.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I love interior designers, even though back in the day I didn't understand how great they were.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: So what we do at Etheridge McGann Group is we help our clients to exceed their goals through PR and marketing, and that can look different for different designers depending on their goals, but basically we're getting them published in magazines, we're helping them to win awards Once they get those accolades.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: We're helping to get that out there.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: So that's via beautiful websites.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Instagram Before that even is making sure that the brand is representative of the designer and the types of works that they want to do, so that they can get projects and get published.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Because it's very hard to get published if you don't have a website that looks impressive or beautiful photography of your work.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: So it's really a holistic boutique approach.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: We're not one size fits all.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: So if someone is excellent at doing Instagram and really loves to do that and gets that, that's great.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: We don't have to do that for you.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Or if you already have relationships with some editors, I encourage you to strengthen those relationships.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Some publicists they want to protect the relationships.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I come from a mindset of abundance where I want everyone to have access to everything I don't need to hold onto it.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: That's not my value.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: My value is the creative strategy, thinking big picture.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, relationships, I bring relationships and I cultivate relationships and I can make relationships between the interior designer and the editor.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: But I'm wanting to encourage that and not protect that, if that makes sense.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It does, it does.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to add something else to what you do, since I've worked with you and I know one of the other gifts that you have is you are an incredible writer and you have an ability to write so eloquently and pull out from designers what makes them unique and what makes them special, because where we live in Fairfield County, which is a lot of what you specialize in, they're designers here.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: You would think, oh wow, having a PR person to promote my brand, but yet they also promote these other 10 brands.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: You know how am I going to be special and how am I going to get published?
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And you have such an ability to find the uniqueness in your clients and then to be able to communicate that through writing, which I think someone articulate.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: That is really a skill that someone needs to ask about as they might be shopping around because you're very good at that.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So I don't want to not have you get credit for being good at that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, no, thank you so much for saying that, and that's something that I truly love so much and it's something that I haven't been able to like outsource that you know I haven't.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: It's something that you know.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Even you know there's AI, there are all of these ways to have writing done now, but I just love our clients so much and really want to know all of them.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I actually really care.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: It's not just like you go into the machine and we do this.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I really want to get to know you and make sure that we're telling your story, not only because it makes my job a lot more interesting, and I really am lucky that I've had a career where I only do what I love and if I stop loving it, I've been able to switch gears and I think that's the path to success.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: It's just do what you love and the success will follow.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: But it's also smart, because if I'm telling a story, or if we're telling a story about who your brand is, that's more compelling for PR.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: If we're just using generic terms and it's like oh, this I think we had this conversation before where I'm like Jean, you know it can't just be beautiful design and you're so smart at PR marketing.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: So you're like you know we had the best time working together because you get it and it was really fun to have those conversations with you.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: But it's more than just beautiful, right?
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: What can you say about your design firm that no other design firm can say?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: That's the real challenge of the PR and marketing, because the editors are getting inundated and if you're doing something that no one else is doing or you're coming from it with a different approach and that was really fun with you is because you have this great business background and all these different things that you're doing the wellness.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: So I get very inspired when I can dig into that unique element.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Um, that makes you special, which is great.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I love that right, yes, making it beautiful is great.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I love that, right?
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, making it beautiful is easy.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I remember, I remember very well, right, and it's true, making things beautiful.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: That's not the hard part of what we do as designers, so that's very helpful.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: The interior design industry is so interesting because print publication still plays such a role in that industry and that is not true for a lot of industries and digital is now very important also.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So you have to balance the importance of print, because in interior design, people actually do want to hold that magazine and see that pretty house and see that pretty space and read about it in a print magazine, and so there still are so many large print magazines and then there are also so many neighborhood magazines especially where we live local publications.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: That print is very important.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And homes and interior design are also very important, so they're always featuring designers and homes and trends and things like that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: So my question for you is what are you seeing in terms of trends, of what the industry is asking of your clients and, from an interior design perspective, what are they looking to showcase in people's homes now?
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: That's an excellent question, and first I just want to talk a little bit about the print side of things too, because it's so smart what you said.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Interior design is kind of old school when it comes to PR and marketing.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: You're not selling lipsticks, you're selling hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: You're going into someone's home.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: People can be thinking about this for years.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So having something tangible to hold, like a print magazine, is very powerful in interior design, which is different than if you're, you know, selling shoes or something like that, and you can make an immediate decision In terms of what editors are looking for.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: There are some things that are always true, and then there are some things that are changing.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: So if you're wanting to get as many pages as possible, you need to have a full house.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: So that means all of the rooms in a house.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: You need to have the bedroom done, so figure that out.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: If you want to have the whole house, you need the kitchen, you need the living space, you need a bathroom, you need a powder room.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: You need to have the full house and more and more the exterior as well, to give it a sense of place.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, you can't expect 14 pages or something like that If you don't have a full house and a lot of designers don't.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Kitchens are really good, baths are really good.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Bedrooms alone are not that great.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: When it comes to trends, color is very editorial.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: We were going through a moment there where it was a lot of white or a lot of gray.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Anything that pops off the page is kind of like with Instagram, like if you're going to stop your scroll and think, oh, I haven't seen that before.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: That's good, because if you've seen it before, the editors have seen it 10 times beyond that Right.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: That said, there are some trends that are kind of fun to plug into, like quiet luxury or bookshelf wealth or Pinterest just came out yesterday that Zen rooms are the number one trending thing and Japan is a big deal for design.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Those are more fun to get into for social media engagement or like a one-off thing where you're part of a roundup of Zen rooms or a roundup of bookshelf wealth, but still you can follow the main tenets of PR Full feature.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: You need the full home.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Anything that's editorial that they haven't seen before is good, and you want to be a little bit careful of trends because you don't want to just be following everything, because then you're going to look like everyone else and if you're using that same Serena and Lily stool that everyone uses or whatever, and they're sick of seeing that, that's going to get you in trouble.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: So the more you can be unique and custom, the better.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It's so funny you mentioned that stool because the pool house project that I did, which you helped me get tons of PR for, the client wanted the Serena and Lily stools and I tried so hard not to have her buy those and I was like everybody has those, I see those everywhere.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: There's nothing unique to this and can we please?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: And I gave her all these other options, trying to convince her to do something else, and she just had her heart set on these stools and I just thought, oh, everybody has these, you need to find something different.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: So it's very funny that you mentioned that.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: But everyone does love them and, to their credit, as a stool they are really comfortable, totally, totally.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: So they do Like they definitely check that box of a lot of function, but they are for interior designers.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: We're like, we cringe.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, everybody has that.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: You want your spaces to be unique and you want your spaces to be different.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: And that's something, too, that I talk about with clients, as you know, where sometimes you can't have every little thing your way and they're going to have a certain thing, or they didn't get the art and but you still need to photograph it for PR, your portfolio, and how you style a project, which photographer you work with, that's something that I spend a lot of time strategizing with the clients on, because, having been on so many photo shoots myself over the very long time I've been in this business, how it looks in the frame is very different than how it looks to experience a space.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: And with show houses with the Kips Bay show houses that we've done with a lot of clients, where it's really it boils down to that one photo and there's so much PR around that one photo and you have to think about how is it going to look in the lens?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Not only is it a piece that isn't overexposed, but who is your brand partner?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the really fun thing about PR now is media is great.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I love all of the magazines, but brands are really becoming like the new PR, and if you have a DeGornay wall covering, that's gorgeous and they have a bazillion followers and that goes viral.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Or you're working with Schumacher and they have email newsletters and all of that.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: But now they even have a magazine, frederick, which is gorgeous.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: It has very notable journalists writing for it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: So, thinking about not just what's pretty but the business behind it of.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Should I choose this wall covering because there's all of this marketing power behind that brand, or this one where they don't have any marketing power?
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I mean that can make a huge difference in the success of that project and how people find you.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: It is so true, I think people don't understand that the pretty pictures that you see in a magazine.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: There's so much work that goes into that pretty picture and when you help your clients find the right photographer, find the right stylist or stager for that project, help you get access to borrow artwork.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: For example, sometimes we shoot places like you mentioned artwork.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we shoot homes that don't actually have any artwork on the walls and so if you're gonna photograph it for a magazine, you have to have artwork on the walls, so you have to go borrow it.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: You have to go find someone who's willing to let you borrow it to then put it on the walls for you.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: And sometimes that relationship of who you borrow from is that part of the branding and the marketing that you can take to the next level, because you can then tag them on social and things like that and have them featured in the magazine.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And I think there are a lot of layers that people don't really think about.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: And there is a ton of strategy, which is one of the things that you bring to the table because you're such a good planner.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: There's so much strategy that goes into who is going to photograph this and where are you going to try to pitch it, because it's also what are the legs of that and how did the legs of that help you as an entrepreneur and a brand?
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Exactly so well said, and I get excited just hearing you talk about it.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I'm such a nerd about this stuff I love it so much but it comes back to relationships too, and I get excited because when you're having art brought in, you're helping that other artist right.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: It's not sure they're helping you Like.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I love those win-wins where everyone's vote is rising.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: So the artists are very grateful to be in the magazine.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: You're grateful to have the beautiful art that brings me so much joy, to have these creatives coming together and everyone's winning and everyone's collaborating.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: And it's having the strategy and the relationships to know how to connect right so that there's growth for everyone.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: And that's one of my favorite things to do and that works with brands and media and that's how I pitch as well as thinking.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: I want to be the best assistant, really, to the editor.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I am not just doing this because my clients want to be in magazines, but we're helping.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: The magazines have great content.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: It's all about thinking in a way of this abundance of not me, me, me or my client, but how are we working together so that everyone's benefiting?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: And that's very exciting to me wellness, and so you may not have noticed it, but one of the reasons that you and I connected so well is you've mentioned the word abundance, I want to say three times so far in our conversation, and you've mentioned the word mindset at least twice, and so one of the reasons that I connected with you so well in the beginning is these are things that are very personally important to me and personally important to my brand, and so whenever I choose partners for my business any format of my business I am always looking to find partners that I feel can understand my wellness journey and understand the importance of some of these things, and so you, not even knowing you, mentioned those words.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: You do because that is how you talk and that is how you live and how you believe.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: So I want to talk about wellness in your life, because your decision to move to Maine, which you talked about in the beginning, was really focused on a lifestyle, and you were going to make a lifestyle choice for yourself, your family and your son by moving to Maine.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I would love it if you would share with everybody a little bit about what that lifestyle is like and how you've adjusted to that lifestyle, what that's providing for you and your family, and then what.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: I know the answer to some of these questions, but I would like you to share with others.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: What does wellness mean for you?
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Because you do have a lot of great wellness practices.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: You know, living in Maine gives perspective, I think, especially in Fairfield County and New York City for sure.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: For me at least, it was easy to get into.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: The mindset of this is just the world, right, and it's sort of like when you go to another country and then you come back.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: You just have a clear perspective, and clarity is a very important way of thinking about wellness.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: For me.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: It's just before you can have wellness, you need to have clarity on what even feels good, right.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: So being in Maine gave me perspective to have more balance in my life, because I wasn't on the hamster wheel in the same kind of way, even just keeping up the affluence.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Being in Maine, we're on the river here, the tide comes in and out every day.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Right, I look at the tide every day and nature is more in control really than whatever us humans are doing.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: You know, you've got the dramatic rocky coast, the infinite ocean with all of this life underneath there, and then the tides that mark time.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And living in a place like that, where nature is so omnipresent, which is different than New York City, where it's been tamed and the humans are in control, and even different, I love, love, love Fairfield County.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: So this is no shade to Fairfield County, because it's one of the most beautiful places and I love the design community there and friends from growing up there, but it's tamed a little bit in Fairfield County as well.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: It's so beautiful, but it's because of the landscape architects and all you know.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: So there's something about just the rugged nature of Maine that's very grounding and humbling and connects you to something that's bigger than whatever we're doing in our own lives, which is really important for wellness, not to think that it's, like, all about just us, right?
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, that's a great perspective.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I haven't had someone talk about it that way it's.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: You're looking at wellness more on a broader, holistic and also bringing in the environment as well.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: And what does that look like?
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And I can totally visualize and I've seen you post pictures of you sitting out there near the water and I can totally visualize the tide moving in and out and the calmness that the tide and watching the tide coming in and out can bring.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: And the element of water is so important in health.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: And I also think you know you post a lot.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: You go outside for lunch to read your magazines or to read a book or have lunch, and so you are so connected to what's happening outside and making that time and making it a priority for yourself to actually get outside and putting yourself in an environment where you can do that as part of your wellness, because you've chosen that to be a priority.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Right, I thank you for stating that, because it's something that I never take for granted.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: You know there are pros and cons.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: The part that's a little bit trickier about being a main is there aren't as many people, right?
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: So I have to think about that and how I live my life.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: So I do travel a fair amount.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: We're doing a lot in the Boston market and I go down to Connecticut, but just that's a fun part of my job.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: It's just, you know, being with people.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: But I've also cultivated a community here in Maine and you're going to laugh because it's a group of girlfriends or boys were in preschool together an outdoor preschool, of course, in Maine, where they did everything outside you know everything outside but we bonded together, especially during COVID, and we called ourselves the Ladies of Abundance.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I love it, yeah, and we would get together for just powwows, whether it was, you know, just getting matching metallic snowsuits and, you know, getting together outside or doing you know, meditation sessions or yoga, or giving you know, business advice.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: We're all entrepreneurs, we all have our own businesses, and actually one of my friends, Lana she has END Yoga, which is an online yoga platform which is a huge part of my wellness journey.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Yoga and breathing are very important to me.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I mean breathing is very important to everyone.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: But really being tuned into breath, and that's really what yoga is all about.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: So I try to carve in time for that and for meditation, and also because I am a planner, like mindful planning, so I'll do things where you know, quarterly I'll look big picture what do I want from this season?
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Each day, you know, at the end of the day I write my priorities for the next day so that I'm not having a reactive day but I'm, you know, really being mindful of what I want to get out of our time here Right.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: And what I also do, which is kind of a little woo-woo, is every year I have a different word, that sort of grounds my meditation.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: This year the word is clarity, last year it was integrity, the year before that it was curiosity, the year before that it was healing, before that it was peace, and so that for me when I meditate, it's helpful for me to have something that helps to organize I know we're not thinking when we meditate but just something to kind of.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: It's giving you intention.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: It's giving a purpose for it.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: It's giving intention to it.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly yes.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: And so much of what you talked about also helps you be accountable.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Having a network of friends that you can connect with also holds you accountable.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: It makes you feel like a sense of community, a sense of purpose.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: I'm a huge proponent of goals.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: I don't plan nearly as well as you do you are like the planning strategy queen but I do think you bring up some really important points of the importance of setting intentions, setting goals and then holding yourself accountable to what are you going to do each day to get to those goals Right, Because they're not just going to happen.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: You don't manifest things without doing some work.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: It doesn't just appear Exactly.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: You have to put a little effort into it.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: So I love that you mentioned those things.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: And it's a daily practice, you know, and it's constantly evolving too.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: I think another thing that's important is, if something is ever not working in the way that it was before, to have the intuition to be aware of that and adjust.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Before we started recording, we were talking about our kids and parenting, and my son going into middle school and your daughter out in the world, and you can't have the same parenting approach throughout the years and you can't have the same approach to you know, throughout the years and you can't have the same approach to your business or to your own wellness journey either.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Like, we're constantly evolving.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: It's the law of entropy, right.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: If you do everything the same, things are just going to be chaos and it's going to fall apart.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: That is a beautiful point.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm going to switch gears one more time again at that point because I feel like we should pause on that point.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: It's such a good one.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I ask all of my guests to recommend a book that has had meaning for them personally and has impacted either their personal wellness or their career or their life in general, that they think is worthy of reading.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: I'm a huge proponent of reading.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I'm a huge proponent of books.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I think they can change your life.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: So what book would you like to recommend?
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Sure Well, I am a huge reader myself.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Every single night I read.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: It's how I sort of calm down, but this is not really like a self-help book.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this book.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: I do know that book.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Yep by James Nestor.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I just think it's such a basic thing that everyone does, and he's a great writer and he really explores all the things that we're doing wrong when it comes to breathing.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, so many people breathe incorrectly, which sounds like how can you even do that?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: And the real impact it can have on one's health.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: This is personal to me, because my dad had a double lung transplant a year and a half ago Wow.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: And then I'm also a yogi and breathing is a big part of that, as we spoke about.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: So I just think sometimes with wellness in general, it's just stripping it down, not all the bells and whistles, but just being in tune with who you are, and it starts with the breath.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Which is so simple and it happens and we all have it, but you can control it, and recognizing the power of breathing is so important.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: That's a great book recommendation.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: And it's always there.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: It's always there, correct, you can always tap into it.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, I love it.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Is there anything about your business that I did not touch on that you feel is important to share?
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to see what you can do.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes designers, all of us can be paralyzed by the noise and have inaction because they're seeing influencers doing all of the things, or they're seeing this person out here and they have this photo shoot and this and that, and there's so much that you can be doing and there's so much that people out there are doing and that can be overwhelming.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Or you might try something and have it not work in the right way, and PR and marketing gets more and more complicated all the time.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: There are more things that you can do.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Digital, which we didn't really talk a ton about, is a whole landscape that can be very complex and it's helpful to have a strategy and a big picture around it.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: So I would just say take a deep breath, and I would be happy to hear from anyone who just feels like they want a big picture on where they should go in their business.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I do strategy sessions, so it's no commitment, it's just an hour and I share all my insight into what direction may be right for you, and I've been having so much fun doing that.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I just started that actually this summer, and it's my new favorite thing.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: It's really exciting People have been so into it and I really enjoy the conversations and the strategies that we come up with you, knowing you, you love the challenge and you love the challenge and you love meeting and connecting with other people, and so that gives you the ability to talk to more people and to connect to more people where you might not be able to do that on a full client scope with everyone.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Exactly, perfectly said, as always.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: And, jean, I just have to say thank you again for having me here.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: You are such an inspiration.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: You truly are one of a kind to see how you have evolved in your career and I remember the first time we ever spoke and I was just blown away by you and I loved your energy and you're always such a pleasure and thank you for sharing you with you.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Know, all of us here it's really.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be in your world and be a part of this with you.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much and thank you for joining and sharing your story.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: It's all about inspiring, educating.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: We don't really talk much about marketing and PR, and so I think it's a great subject for people to understand and also just another incredible entrepreneur's journey, which is what you are is an incredible entrepreneur and someone who has put up boundaries.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: We talked about that Someone who has put up boundaries and found balance in your life and also by making wellness and yourself important in your life.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: So you embody everything that I talk about where wellness starts within.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much for being a guest.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: I will put in the show notes everything about your business, how to find you on Instagram, how people can find you on your website.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I will put your book recommendation as well and encourage people to follow Elizabeth, because all of your clients do the most incredibly beautiful work and you post it all all the time in addition to posting stuff about wellness.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: So I definitely encourage you Follow Elizabeth on Instagram, in addition to posting stuff about wellness.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: So I definitely encourage you follow Elizabeth on Instagram.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: It's a good one.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jane, it's been a pleasure.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you and we will talk soon.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us for another episode of the House of Germar podcast where wellness starts within.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: We appreciate you being a part of our community and hope you felt inspired and motivated by our guest.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review and share it with friends.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Building our reach on YouTube and Apple Podcasts will help us get closer to our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: You can also follow us on Instagram at House of Jermar and sign up to be a part of our monthly inspiration newsletter through our website, houseofgermarcom.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: If you or someone you know would be a good guest on the show, please reach out to us at podcast at houseofgermarcom.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: This has been a House of Germar production with your host, jean Collins.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining our house.