Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Robert Lewis - the realities of building a directly authorised IFA

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Robert Lewis - the realities of building a directly authorised IFA · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: And today's guest is Robert Lewis.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Robert Lewis is a financial planner and uh he's got extensive experience working in the financial services, and he's taken that into running his own practice.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a directly authorized firm by the name of Celtic Financial Planning.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And today we discuss all things about running your own business, the realities of running a directly authorized firm, why he chose to be directly authorized instead of going down the appointed representative route.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about his hiring strategy, we talk about trainee financial advisors, the realities of running your own practice, FSCS levies, the number of IFAs in the future, social media marketing.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's a really interesting podcast for anybody who's thinking about setting up their own business, thinking about becoming directly authorized.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: And any newbies that are thinking about getting into the industry, it's a great example of what can be achieved and that you can run your own business.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Hi Robert, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: How are you, sir?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Sam.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very good.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very good.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Very wet in Bristol today.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, got a few of the guys in the office that are that are sort of part-time or they're, you know, working from home sort of half the week.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got a nice little uh little group in there.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I do enjoy that.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: A bit of a buzz.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not on my own, which is quite nice.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, are you guys all back in the office now?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: What's your situation?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very much a blended approach, like you've just said, really, Sam.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um, some people are working in the office, some working from home.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just on a case-by-case basis each day what's going on, really.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I do miss the general buzz of a of a full office, I must admit.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think um, because there's a lot of talk about people saying, oh, we don't need the office anymore, we can work from home and all of that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you agree with that or do you disagree with that?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm on the fence, to be honest.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think office space won't be as needed as much as what it has been.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think certainly from my own growth plans as we move forward, I would not be in a hurry to expand the space that we have.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just think we can utilize what we already have slightly differently and encourage, you know, this sort of shift work from people working from home.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the big thing, to be honest, is a lot of people working from home have really enjoyed it because suddenly, you know, the dogs aren't left at home as long.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your sort of work-life balance becomes a bit more in your favour of things.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's got big merits.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely agree with you there.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I've got some office space in central Bristol, and like when you think about growth, you always think about getting more space and having more people in.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and my mindset's completely shifted, and COVID has completely forced that from me.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: That fear of um, you know, that fear of um people not doing their jobs if they're not in the office is really kind of lifted from me because I've seen how responsible these guys have been during COVID, especially the ones that have been working through it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they've been absolutely fantastic, they're getting business on the board, but having a fantastic month this month, and um, it's down to trust and letting go.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uh ultimately, I think the office needs to be here because bringing new people in as well, they need to banks, they need to be in an office, they need to be supported and mentored.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: They can't really expect it to be doing a job from home on their own.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be too difficult for a grad, and we take on grads and stuff like that.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the office space needs to be here.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think what it will be is just very flexible people coming in some days, being at home the other days, allowing that flexibility, being able to look after the dogs, the kids.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's just gonna make for a much happier, more ranged, more well-rounded in sort of well-being proposed, you know, side of it, you know.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and my guys are gonna be a lot happier.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: There are some people that didn't quite fit what's happened, and they've we've had to part ways, and I think that's naturally gonna happen with some of these, some, some of the situations that are coming out.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've I I've been oh COVID for me has been okay.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think the government have really helped us out.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think with the whole kind of um the banks back loans that came into play, you know, furloughing staff, without that, you know, I think they get a bit of stick, but without that quick reaction and being able to do that, it's kept us afloat as a business.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And as a business owner, it was a scary time, you know.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's why we got you on the podcast today.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: You were a business owner, you run your own financial planning practice.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're directly authorized.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to know what that's like, and I think our listeners do as well, because there's a lot of financial advisors that probably sit there and think, do you know what?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I could do this myself.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm employed at the moment, I'm the one who's generating all these clients.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can run my own business and take the lion's share, you know?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really pleased you're on today because we want to probe you, find out what the realities are of running your own financial planning practice.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, Robert, the first question I want to ask you today is how did you get into financial planning in the industry?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: What was your story of getting into it?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it'd be 15 years ago now, Sam.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was um well, I had a full head of hair from being honest with it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was probably going a little bit thin in in places, but yeah, I did have air.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, essentially my story then.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to school here in Mold, where we're now based.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So in that respect, I didn't get very far because I'm literally 200 yards from my high school.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um after sixth form, I um I wanted to be an architect, if I'm being honest.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Loved design, always loved architecture, um, and and realized that you know, to be an architect, it's it's a mammoth sort of training course, seven plus years.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um I wasn't in a fortunate position to have lots of money to be able to pay for uni, so I decided to take a year out, do a little bit of traveling, get some money in to be able to save and have you know some surplus money available.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me, um, that resulted in getting a job with a bank actually on a temporary basis.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the first ever job I had, I walked into a room and it was just full of paperwork, and it was following the endowment sort of scandal and part of HBOS.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And HBOS were going through all these endowment claims and basically deciding who gets to pay out on it and how much.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my job wasn't very glamorous, it was to scan all the paperwork onto the back office system.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I did that job in about um four or four or so weeks, and it was meant to be a six-month job.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but because I did loads of overtime and I wanted to get it done, I got it done basically.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I got fired actually because there's no more work for me.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Too good, too efficient.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: However, my uh sort of boss at the time felt sorry for me.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So she walked across to the other building into the mortgage department and said, Do you have any positions for this young lad?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's really keen, he's done this great job for us.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anything going?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I actually got a full-time job without an interview.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: They just gave me a position um dealing with mortgage applications for what was the mortgage business.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: No longer exists.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they made their money, as it were, from self-cert mortgages, if you remember them back in the day.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I started in the mortgage industry.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I quickly found out that after doing my sort of CMAP certificate, that I wanted to be a mortgage advisor.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I couldn't find a position locally that I was happy with.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up moving to London to be a trainee stockbroker.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Worked there for 12 months, found it incredibly exciting, a great learning curve.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of learn a lot of the skills that I still have today, but ultimately I couldn't stay there because I couldn't afford to stay there.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right because the training program ran out and so did the money.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up coming back home, um, working for the co-op as a financial advisor working from home, got redundant from there essentially because they were going through big changes.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is going into sort of 2007-2008 time, um, which being in financial services was not a good time with the credit crisis.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then got into bank assurance, left bank assurance to go into the more technical side as a paraplanner with close brothers.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And at that stage, I sort of realized that I can't work for people, I can't sort of conform to the ways in which they want me to.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did a great job, you know, I was never rebellious or anything like that, but I had this vision of what I wanted to do with my life, and it was to sort of take hold of my destiny.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when an opportunity came along to become uh a director of operations for a firm here locally, um, which then transformed into Celtic Financial, which got authorized in November 2018, which now um this business is really my vision of what I think financial planning should look like, um, and that's why I went directly authorized because ultimately I wanted that control of my business and the way it run.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant, okay.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thanks so much for that overview.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Very, you know, very thorough and very, very, very informative.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, interestingly, so you got into the industry, you know, you got into financial services in in in a kind of administrative type capacity, basically, back office scanning some documents.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um, did you, you know, did you have a, you know, when you said you wanted to be an architect, did you then think, well, actually, no, I I quite fancy financial services.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was just you fell into it, basically.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't yeah, I fell into it, yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and the thing that kept me in there, if I'm being honest at the beginning, was the money because I thought, hang on, I I can earn some good money here.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I going to put myself into education where I'm not gonna earn any money and train for seven years when actually I can train on the job?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the big appeals for me in financial services, is that you can be anyone and you can develop and you can take qualifications to become you know a chartered, you know, a master's individual in financial planning.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's fantastic, you know.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you're in control of your destiny, aren't you, really?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's sort of you mentioned there as well that you so this kind of go back to that kind of so you were HBoss, did HBoss.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you went a bit a stint as a stockbroker in the city in London.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: How long were you there for?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the total training program was about 12 months.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um in London predominantly was six months.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: So who were you working for then?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was a company called Edward Jones, which was an American firm.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Towery ended up buying them, didn't they?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: You've got it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you would say were you stockbroking or were you financial planning?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: What were you doing?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because they called themselves stockbrokers, didn't they?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: But they were actually fine, a lot of them were actually financial advisors as well, weren't they?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it was a bit of a blended approach.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was really strange to be honest, because I wasn't there for very long, I didn't get into the nitty-gritty of really advising clients because the the stage I sort of finished out was basically door knocking.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So knocking on doors to gain a client bank, basically, which in the rain, when you've got doors being closed on you and everything else, it's really good grounding for today.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's really challenging at the time being a young, young guy knocking on doors trying to get clients.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I lost my hair from being honest.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a door-knocking job, wasn't it, Edward James, as well?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was like proper hardcore.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: So those those, and it's funny actually, you mentioned door knocking because when I was about seven, well, I must have been, how was I then?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: About 16, 17.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: One of my very first jobs was going out door knocking.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I used to knock on people's doors and try and get them to change over their annoying person who'd knock on your door at seven o'clock at night asking you to change your telecoms over.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And my God, what a baptism of fire that is to the world of uh prospecting and selling.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I did a lot of that sort of quite raw, cold type selling in my younger days.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it definitely builds that character and um and sort of gets you thinking a little bit outside the box and having to push through that mindset of like, I don't want to do this, it's pissing down with rain and I'm knocking on people's doors.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it was 100% commission based as well.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was but it but I'll tell you what, a lot of the people that I know who did that sort of style of style of work actually ended up running their own businesses.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe it's you know a good lesson in early life just to take yourself outside your comfort zone and just do some real hardcore graft, you know, when it comes to selling.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, that's cool.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, you went in and out of different companies then.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned Close Brothers, you mentioned um working in bank insurance there at Santander as well.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So picking up skills along the way, um, eventually moving into a operations type role you mentioned there.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um why did you choose operations then at that point?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously you've gone through the route of being kind of face-to-face and and all that type type of thing with clients, etc.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I stop me if I'm wrong, but an operations role is more sort of back office-y type thing, isn't it?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's like looking after the operation and the function and the running of it, perhaps compliance, that kind of thing.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is that is that right or am I wrong?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, however, because it was a small business, a very small setup, there's only three of us at the beginning.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, it was um it was a bit of hands all on deck, really.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my formal title, but I was still seeing clients who were still chipping in on all the other different areas.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that's probably one of the to be honest, my whole history has allowed me to be the person I am today, if I'm being honest, because I am so fortunate and lucky to have worked with those companies.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because don't get me wrong, I could reel off a lot of faults with with many of those companies, but at the same time, there were so many benefits and so many different training styles and so many different ways of working that I've picked up, and each time I've I've sort of took something away from it to sort of use in my future, which ultimately I'm using now.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean the ultimate roles being in the operations are really valuable.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think you need to have that experience before setting up a business because I think if you're just advising clients, there is a huge transition from just advising clients to running a business because it's a completely different kettle of fish.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: You ultimately have to be a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde and have a split personality because they're very two different roles.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: As you'll know from running a business, Sam, there's you know, getting on the phone and and and talking to new businesses, engaging with them, then doing the nitty-gritty accounts, the bills, and everything else that goes around along with a business.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think because we're in a regulated environment, that's even tougher because everything has to be that little bit more, you know, resilient and documented to make sure that you've got that process.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if the FCA does knock on the door, you you've got an answer to their questions.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's um that's a real tough thing to do, is split yourself into two different roles.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, what interesting then?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, let's take ourselves up to the current, you know, to when the business was set up.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Celtic Financial Planning is the company, yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you've gone in there on operations role.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: At that stage, it was a directly authorised firm as well, is that right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so when we set up Celtic Financial from inception, we set it up as a directly authorised company.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we are not part of a network, we answer directly to the FCA.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So what that really allows us to do is to control what systems we have, what processes we have, you know, who we use, who we don't use.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to answer to anyone other than making sure we're compliant.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: So as a recruitment aid, I know I'm been a recruitment consultant within the financial planning industry for quite some time.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, a lot of what we're sort of encouraged to do is work with networks and ARs and encourage people that are directly authorized by putting a bit of fear into them.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know, what's going to happen with PI costs and you've got to run your own compliance and all the hours you've got to work and all that time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Have you calculated how much time and money?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And why don't you give all that up and just give the compliance to somebody else?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So why do you because you strike me as somebody who quite likes to be in a bit of control?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is that it?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is that you you want to hold on to the control when you want to run the compliance?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: What why do people choose to be directly authorized?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think it from my perspective, it's like you have to wear a compliance hat and the financial advisor hat, and as you said, an operations hat.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's like, why not just give up part of that and allow someone else to do your compliance?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: How come you chose to be directly authorized and be responsible and accountable to the FCA, especially around compliance?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really good question.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think my first answer would be, and it goes to back to what you were saying before about working from home and relying on certain people to work in the right roles.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say that right now we have the best team that I've ever worked with.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: The individuals that we have here at Celtic Financial are phenomenal.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I trust them.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can trust them to work from home, I can trust them to check a file, I can trust that the research and the processes that we're putting in place are right.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to that, then it's using the right providers for that support.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we use 360, who are uh a compliance function for directly authorised IFAs, they're brilliant.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're faultless to be honest.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're always there on hand.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can send them our website to check, we can send them a document to check, they've got templates for us.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: If we get a complicated tax um question about an offshore bond, we can give up their technical um geyser call and ask a question.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's having that support mechanism around you, whether it's a team or whether it's you know employed support, it's just having the right people.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you've got the right people, then you're there.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: The reason to go directly authorised, it does come back to control, if I'm being honest, Sam, and it's being the control of your destiny.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, touch wood PI insurance has been an issue for us.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have defined benefit transfer permissions, that's probably one of the red flags for um PI insurance at the moment.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's keeping our business simple and slick and cost effective with having the right systems.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at this stage, unless something really changes with regulation, then I'm confident we're doing a fantastic job.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose the um sort of the true test of that is the fact that we're we're an award-winning business.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: We've been for a lot of rewards, so that's picked up, and we have you know tons of Google reviews from our clients, and we have a lot of referrals.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So as long as all those metrics keep continuing as they are, then you know I've got full confidence we're doing the right thing being directly authorized.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what you always hear as well is being directly authorized is more expensive, it's is a is a more expensive way to run your financial planning um practice.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any truth in that?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know because if you're part of a network, you have to pay away a fee, a percentage of your business, which we don't have to.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose if a network can secure you cheap PI insurance, which is more expensive than you to get it on your own, then fair enough.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: But um, in my eyes, then no, I I wouldn't say being directly authorised is more expensive.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's cheaper, but I could certainly can't see it being more expensive because I don't have to pay it away anymore.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: So in when you pay like$360 to look after your um compliance, is it a very is it is is it like how do how do they charge you?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Do they charge you on like a monthly retainer or do you sort of just pay case by case basis for time?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we pay a fixed monthly retainer regardless of our size.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the nice thing there is as we grow as a business, that will become cheaper.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then if we want them to do external case checks or a case check on a particular subject, or we want them to check a certain process, then they just bill us for that work, then typically a day rate.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: So do they then become accountable for the advice given, or is it you personally that's then accountable for it?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, say for example, someone then made a complaint against you.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Who are they are they is it their fault or is it your fault?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wish it was their fault.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, it always comes down towards the firm and the financial advisor, absolutely.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So any um sort of external services that you use, especially in the compliance arena, yeah, you you you can never sort of um give away your responsibility and your duty of care.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: It always lands with you, which is quite right, because we're the ones giving the advice, we're the ones making that recommendation, so it should fall ours.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: All right, great stuff.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned there as well in in setting up a becoming directly authorized, you were sounds to me you were quite lucky because a few of you came together to create the business.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So there was, you weren't just one person.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say, for example, I'm a financial advisor, I'm I'm working for a company on an employed basis.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think to myself, do you know what?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I can do this alone.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I might not have anybody around me.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go and be a one-man band.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when a network becomes incredibly useful, doesn't it?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because I can just go and join them as an RI, get myself nicely set up, take on their branding.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: They they they take away the you know the pressure of compliance, all the complications of setting up my business.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them even build your websites and things like that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really, really perfect for say, uh for say a one-man band because I'm a one-man band and I don't I haven't built that business yet.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps then I might then start to establish business, and I might think to myself, you know what?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be a I don't know, a two-plan RI.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to be Sam Oaks's, you know, financial planner life, you know.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be financial planner life.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I might set up an AR and from there I'll build out.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: But you're lucky because you obviously came together with a group of people.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: How did that happen?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: How did you all come together?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Did you go to a networking event?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Did you know each other personally?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: How did you come together and then how did you decide that you were going to set up a business?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, so we we work together already.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the previous was that I was at, we worked together anyway.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and to be honest, I don't know how someone on their own would be able to become directly authorized and set up a firm.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to be honest, I don't know if the regulator would allow it, if I'm being honest, because they would certainly have questions say, how the how the hell are you going to do all of this?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to do the compliance?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to do the advising?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to run the business, the accounts, and everything else?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I can't speak to the regulator or speak on behalf of the regulator in regards to that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But certainly, I think it would be nearly impossible to do it on your own.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: You would have to have, however big the team was, some sort of team to be able to delegate some of those responsibilities out.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is incredibly difficult, there's a lot to think about.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what back office software do you use?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What platforms do you use?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: What providers do you have a centralized investment proposition?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: What research tools do you use?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: What research tools don't you use?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: How do you risk profile?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: What fact find are you going to use?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, suitability reports, how are you gonna write them?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna use it a word, are you gonna get a template?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna power plan?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna check?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can go on and on, and all these things need thinking about before you even contemplate setting up a business.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: So is that what you did then?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the three of you kind of got together, you'd meet for your coffees or over lunch or whatever, and like sort of came together and said, look, we can do this ourselves, we can run our own business.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Deciding that you want to go down the directly authorised route.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And as you mentioned there, there was there's so many things that you've then got to think about.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an out-of-the-box type thing, is it, setting up a financial planning practice on a directly authorised basis?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: You have to think about every intricate piece of that business.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, how long then, to give our listeners a bit of expectation, how long did you plan before actually turning the key and starting your directly authorised firm?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh unknowingly, probably 15 years, Sam.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, subconsciously, it's probably always been in the back of my mind somewhere to do to do this, I'm sure.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but realistically, it's probably you know, five, six years in the making.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: When I did become a director in financial services, you know, some six years ago, I you know, I helped to set up that business from scratch again, another directly authorised business.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So at that stage, you know, with with with support and with a team, we were already thinking, what do we need here?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need there?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: How are we going to put this together?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's been you know four or five years in the making to get it to where it is today, really.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's still evolving.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're still improving things now.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: As we take on new expertise and new people, they add something different to the mix, and they might say, Well, why don't we do it this way or why don't we do it this way?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always evolving, and I think the best businesses are really.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have your core principles and your business plan, which maybe adapt slightly, but then you know, these little things around the edges are always changing to make sure that you stay relevant and you stay, you know, good for the clients, basically.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, how many people have you actually got working for you now then, Robert?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: How many people are in the business?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think top of my head, there's eight of us in total.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Eight in total, yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and you've been going as Celtic financial planning for how long now?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that went live November 2018.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: 2018.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: So oh cool.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, good strong team around you.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, so you've set up your directly authorised business.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: There was three of you, and you were all assigned um roles, I guess, to be able to get this business off the ground.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, were you doing multiple roles in the early stages and probably still are, but how many hats were you really, you know, what is the reality of turning that key, starting that business up?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: How much how much time and energy was spent in multiple roles as opposed to just I'm a financial planner and that's it?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I suppose I'm I'm I'm absolutely in multiple roles now.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's running the business, there's seeing clients, there's you know, business development and lots of bits in between.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm probably wearing 10 plus caps now.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when we started, I was probably wearing about 20 caps.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and to put it into perspective, when we we got going and when we first authorised and we were, you know, setting things up and putting things together, um, there were 20-hour days, seven days a week, if we're being honest.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: We lived and breathed it, it's all that was going on, you know, constant messages, meetings, what we're going to do here, what we're gonna do there.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Although I had, you know, those five, six previous years of being a director of operations for another directly authorised IFA, and had all that experience and all that knowledge.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: When we set up Celtic Financial, we deliberately did it with a clean page, and we basically said, right, we've got all of that, some of it is baggage, what were the best bids?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we're gonna bring across, and what do we need to change, and how are we gonna change it, and what's gonna be our business goal?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we put a lot of changes in.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of our key business um goals is being um a community-minded and focused um business with a really strong corporate social responsibility mandate.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's at the heart of our business now, which was never in existence before.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we started with this clean sheet to be able to put these new ideas and make sure that we're creating a business that's going to be suitable for the future for both us and our clients, and make sure that that client experience was really you know unique and special because ultimately it all comes down to clients.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you're in financial planning, whether you're working in a bank environment, directly authorised IFA, it's all about giving the client the best advice.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, that best advice, and in my opinion, comes from being a directly authorised IFA.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's lots of arguments either side, and you know that that's great, and debate is really helpful.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've noticed that on LinkedIn lately.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, debate is healthy, but for me, in my opinion, and from my track history of having my work experience, I wanted to be a directly authorised IFA to be able to give my clients the you know the ultimate service.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think the IFA badge will some people will hold on to it for dear life, don't they?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, do you think it'll eventually go?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that people can even be, you know, further down the line, do you think there's gonna be so much costs involved to to be up here at IFA and to actually be a true IFA?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think there'd be a very select few companies that actually hold that badge, or do you think everyone's going down to this kind of centralized investment proposition sort of route?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Or what's your view on IFA?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is it gonna stay around forever, or do you think it will go?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really hope it stays.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really do, and there's lots of reasons why, but I do hope the the IFA route still stays.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, that that badge is is in the hands of the regulator, um, and it's in the hands of the MPs, to be honest, because something has to happen with the financial services compensation scheme because it is killing IFAs, and it's the same with the PI insurance as well, that's killing IFAs, and you know, to stress, there's so many fantastic, amazing, independent financial advisors out there that give their clients such a superb service, but sadly, there are those few that set up firms, you know, they they hit and run basically, Sam, and they cost the rest of the industry money, and it's crippling at times, and it's awful because I think what it all comes down to is choice at the end of the day.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Clients have that choice whether to see an IFA, whether to see a national firm, you know, whoever they might want to choose, give them the choice.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: If we force that choice away, I just think it's uh it's a shame on the client.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: And a client's becoming more savvy as well, you know.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're you know, they an IFA was always like, well, I've got an IFA, you know, they'll they'll look at the whole market for me.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was kind of like I get that, but clients are becoming more savvy and being able to do their own sort of investments themselves and look around at things, and as you know, the rise of fintech will make will make it easier for people to kind of make their own decisions as to where they put their money.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I do think still that face-to-face contact with somebody to talk through investments, and especially from an IFA perspective, still holds a lot of weight.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm with you actually.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think IFA should go.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it um you know it should be there because um I think it's fair, you know, it's fair.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it's all about.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: People want a fair, fair advice.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: You go down the route of somebody who's very restricted, and it's not, I don't think it's fair advice.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: As long as you're honest about it and say, look, this is the guys that I'm this is the people I'm giving, these are the investments, this is their performance.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: If you're happy with that, let's look at the market and see what else is out there.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, IFA kind of makes someone feel comfortable that the and as long as the IFA is actually, you know, going out to the whole of the market and not just picking their select few that they they're comfortable with.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think IFA is a great badge to have.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: You've um okay, cool.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get into the kind of written insecurity of us.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you set this business if you set this business up, it was back in November 2018.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned there about let's talk about the realities because you said you're like you were living, you're living and breathing it, you know, 20-hour days, that type of thing.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh is it easy setting up a business?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you mentioned 20 20 hours days, you know, is it worth it?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel overworked?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel pressurized?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel stressed out a lot of the time when you're running this own your your own practice?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's an I said this to you the other day, Dana, on the phone.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's an absolute roller coaster of emotions.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um the end shot is it's the most rewarding and satisfying, satisfying thing I've ever done in my life.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I would not change anything that's happened and which is gone, or all the stress, all the sleepless nights, all those hours, I would not change any of it to be where we are today because I think we've got a phenomenal business with amazing people, and the feedback we get from clients and and the futures that we help to craft with those clients is absolutely fantastic.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't change it for the world, I really wouldn't.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there are periods where you know you want to go down to the Straits of Dover and go for a swim because it gets really stressful and it's horrible at times.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you have sleepless nights, and you do have to put the work in, and you do lose hair, and you do um, you know, have the odd tear about it, and you know, occasionally you have to have a couple of beers to go to sleep because you're that wound up.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a huge roller coaster of emotions, and it comes back to this thing again: you must have that team, you must have that support network around you, and the support network is also your friends and family as well.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're hugely responsible in uh in someone building a business, I think, to keep you level-headed and to say, look, it's gonna be all right, keep going.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've made it this far, just keep going.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: You need that support network.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're coming from an area where you don't have that support network around you, it's gonna be really tough.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I find it I've run a business now for over 10 years, and when you mentioned about the roller coaster ride, without a shadow of a doubt, you know, you mentioned there about having a good support network about around you.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I suffered massively with stress and depression and anxiety.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned drinking, I was a heavy drinker.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was a mess at times because I just couldn't I couldn't let go of certain parts of the business.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't um, you know, I didn't outsource things.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: I my communication wasn't there because I was so full of pride, I didn't want anybody to think that I was struggling or anything like that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: There were some times when I was earning way less than the people I've employed, and I'm sitting there thinking, why the am I doing this?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why am I doing this?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I came into this to want to earn money, then I was getting resentful.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had some terrible times, you know, running a bit running a business.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And often I would sit there and think, why am I bothering?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I doing this?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I think it you have to be a certain type of, and obviously I've got I've gotten over that, and and actually it's it's crafted me to be a completely different person.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and I don't think if I didn't go on that journey and experience those feelings, I don't think I would be the person I am today, which is a pretty well-rounded individual who takes complete accountability and responsibility for who he is.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um there we go.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, but it but it's definitely helped me, you know.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: But there were times when I was like, oh my god, it's stressful.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I kind of want to hit home with people, because when you speak to financial advisors, well, so I want to earn more money, I want to do this, and it's like, yeah, but you say you're gonna run your business, it's gonna eat you alive.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: You think you're gonna have way more time, but you're not, you know, that for a long, long time, you're not gonna have free free time to do what you want because you're gonna be panicking and worrying about every aspect of it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you employ somebody, you've got to think about their salary, you've got to think about whether or not they're gonna turn up.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Those people that you employ have their own problems and as as well.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you're thinking, Christ, I just have in your head you think, well, I've eight these people and they'll all smash the phones like I did and make a load of money, and I'll just sit back and cream it.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's not actually what happens.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: People have their own lives and their own problems, and you've got to manage those as well and and your own struggles.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, whoa, it's it's heavy going, isn't it?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's it's it's it's not easy.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's good what you said there about the making sure you're talking to people.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the support side of it is something that I learned later on down the line that without a shadow of a doubt, it's a lonely place to be when you're taking full responsibility and the weight of the business on your own shoulders.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And when you let go of that and start to share it with somebody, whether it's a business partner, and that's a good thing, is to round yourself with those people that are you know are great and honest and um and caring.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, otherwise you just beat yourself into an early grave.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And just another thing that you mentioned there, Sam, as well, is if you're wanting to set up a business as a financial advisor to make more money, it's not why you should be doing it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do not set up your own business to make more money.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: That shouldn't be the goal.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: The reason you know we did it and I did it is I thought that I could give my clients a better experience, and I thought that we could do it in a different way, and ultimately, yes, I would have a better way of life and I would have a better work-life balance, but in the short term, what you do is you typically employ people to take some of those caps off you because that's what you need to do.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you're actually right there.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at the beginning, I was earning less than the people I was paying, but they were taking responsibilities and duties off me, so it freed my time up to be more successful and see more clients.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I I would say to anyone, if you want to set up your own business as an IFA to make more money, then you're in for a bit of a shock.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also with those types of people as well, it's probably better that they are just one man bands and that they go and join as an RI somewhere because you can really, you know, if you if you're writing£400,000 worth of business off your own back and you're employed and you're earning£100,000, go and join a bloody two plan, get 80% of what you write.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you're that confident that the relationships will follow you, go and do it.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, go and do it yourself.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's really stopping you, you know?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: B an AR, it's much more, it it's it's less stressful.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a package there, ready to go.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: They've got all the solutions in place, they'll sort out the PI, the FCA fees, everything like that.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, if you've got that level of client bank, then that's your easiest route to earn more money and continue building your own little brand within someone else's.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, being a directly authorised FA is a completely different journey.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I like about financial planning, is that there are a few options for you.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can go down the RRI route if you want to take on somebody else's branding and be self-employed.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can be an AR and have your own personal branding.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Underneath that AR, you can employ people if you want to employ people.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you want to go directly authorized and have that control, you can do that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to be employed, you can do that as well.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, if you are building your business, whether you're self-employed one-man ban or you are a directly authorized firm, you are building intrinsic long-term value that you will eventually might be able, well, hopefully be able to sell that business at a nice multiplier when you look to exit the industry.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there are sort of multiple ways that you can progress to suit really what it is that you want to do and how you want to progress your career within financial planning.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think knowing what I know about financial planning and the type of mindset that I am, I wouldn't want to set up a, I don't think I would want to set up a directly authorised firm.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would be like AR, and if I and I would build my own personal brand, smash out my personal brand.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if people then come to me and want to work with me, then I would bring them on as like self-employed advisors that sit underneath me and just have like a group of good quality self-employed.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, when I do that, I don't build any value in that business that eventually I might be able to sell.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because how can I sell a business essentially with a load of self-employed people?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're just going to leave, you know, that I don't own those self-employed people unless I unless I tie them in with some form of share scheme, you know.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there's lots of different ways to build your business, isn't there?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just Yeah, you can go a step further than that.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you did do that model of an AR and you had that route, you might one day, you know, maybe it's 10 years down the line and go, actually, I want to be directly authorized now because I don't want to use that back office software they're using, or I don't want to use that model that they're using, then you can decide to take that AR into a directly authorized um, you know, business and apply to the FCA to do that, you know, subject to the terms that you've got with that AR company, but that's also an option.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you're right.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think the options within financial services is great.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So please, Mr.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Regulator, can we keep them?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's people don't, and you know, people don't have to go too fitted into.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: I speak to some people and they're one, you know, they're one individual person.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, Well, I'm thinking about going directly authorized.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like, you're mad, you're mad going directly authorized right now because you've got absolutely zero experience of running a business and it's just you, isn't it?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, well, don't do that.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're go and try it first, you know, go and try out what it's like to be self-employed.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever done that yet?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, go and have a go at doing that, it's a good option.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, cool.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about Celtic financial planning then.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So Celtic financial planning is an IFA, you're directly authorized.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: You've now got eight guys, you've been going for a couple of a couple of years now.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so just tell us a little bit more about that responsibility, that corporate response, environmental corporate responsibility, I think you just said.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's all that about?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: Is that like a brand value?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I suppose it is it is part of the brand.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we're we're trying to um create a brand which is really engaged with the local community and local environment.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, what our corporate social responsibility is, it's quite a wide-ranging pool really of objectives, but the four key sort of topics really is carbon offsetting.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, for every new pension and investment client that becomes an ongoing client, we plant a tree to offset the carbon footprint.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we use fair trade and sort of plastic-free um goods such as tea and coffee.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we engage with the community and we donate to local organisations and sort of local charitable events.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and generally we sort of just look after the environment and our local community.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, from that, we've also set up a not-for-profit business networking group.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we help local businesses network and sort of engage with each other to do more business.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we've done other things, such as now we've got a Celtic incubator at our offices here.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we will fully fund new business startups for 12 months, we'll give them office space, we'll pay for websites, we'll sort out the internet laptops if they need it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: So if you come to us and you're a new entrepreneur and you've got this business plan, as long as we see potential in it, we'll give you a space in our incubator and we'll support you over 12 months, and we'll also put you in touch with mentors to be able to develop that business and make sure you've got the right skills.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're doing lots of different things to engage with the local community to give back, basically, because ultimately our clients are from the community, so it's a bit of a circular um sort of motion, really.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's really nice.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: So a bit of social responsibility, then, isn't it?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Local and social responsibility.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: You ingrain yourself within that community, you're seen to be doing good as well.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: That means your clients, if you're interacting with your clients within those, with those, as you said, in that sort of self-serving economy, if you like, if you're in there doing that, then they're seeing it, they're talking to other people, that's going to get you noticed a hell of a lot more.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really like that, the social responsible element.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot more companies are being more aware of what they are doing, how they're doing it, and what impact that they're having.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think on a localized level, it works really well.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can kind of get a bit carried away with the business sometimes and think you're like, you know, global or whatever.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, when you look, when you break it down and make it a lot smaller and you look at your kind of area of where you live and the impact you're having and make it more realistic about how you can help, and you know, it becomes a it becomes a better proposition.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I do quite like that.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's a nice touch.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so does that help you then attract people to come and work for you, do you think?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've got to have like-minded people, haven't you?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's always good to to find someone that shares the same ethics as you, and I think that's really important.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the key there is making sure you don't um employ people that uh the opposite because it's always gonna be uh sort of a point of tension, isn't it?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got someone on board that doesn't believe in the same sort of uh viewpoints as you when it comes to how a business should be run.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, finding like-minded people I think is really important.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: One of the biggest challenges to any um firm that's growing and hiring staff is actually finding good quality, uh experienced um either financial planners or back office stuff.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's we're in a shortage, aren't we, at the end of the day?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Lots more vacancies, and there are really good quality candidates that are actively looking to move.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: What's your experience been hiring financial planners?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Have you found it difficult?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Have you found it easy?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: And what's your approach to it?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: The staff we've recruited here is been from social media and people we know of, if that makes sense.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's our local connections already.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we've not really had a position where we've needed to go to recruit it to fill, because we've always had potential candidates to fill those roles.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the latest example is Sam, who started as a trainee-independent financial advisor, and he's actually our first trainee-independent financial advisor that I've taken on as my apprentice, effectively.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been really a nervous point for me because I've been, you know, weighing all these things in my head, you know, the compliance, the risk, taking someone on, you know, the client bank issue, what happens there.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that all aside, um, when I knew I wanted to take on a financial advisor, it was really important for me to make sure that I found someone that I sort of know of, that I can trust, and that I can see as being part of the infrastructure going forwards.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, very much, you know, and I've said this to Sam, I took him on with the viewpoint that, you know, ultimately I can see him one day on the board, you know, as part of the business.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when it comes to financial advisors, because they're so important.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Important to a financial advisory business.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you can't see them one day being on the board, then are they the right fit for your business?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I'm a small business, I can't afford to take on an advisor here for five years.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, spend loads of money on training, qualifications, help them with a client bank, and then suddenly he takes that client bank away.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I've still got all the costs because I've taken on a power planner and the PI and the FCA fees.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, when you take on a financial advisor, it's a very sensitive point, I think, for a financial advisory firm.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you must find the right person.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that person coming passively for me has worked a little bit better.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: So do you think so?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're kind of doing that sort of laws of attraction thing, really, aren't you?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you put out a good vibe on social, if you put out a good vibe in the local area, people are going to naturally hear about you.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully you should be able to should be able to attract people that meet your your culture, your values on a more of an inbound basis, instead of taking the the approach of right, okay, well, we want to grow, let's engage with 10 recruitment agencies and let's try and get 10 financial planners that have all got level four and all got clients and grow out that way, which is very much some of the strategies for other um other financial planning firms.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's interesting that you chose to take on a trainee as well.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so somebody's a trainee, because a lot of the listeners to this podcast will also be either thinking about getting into the financial planning industry or be quite early on.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say, for example, they're an administrator or a power planner, um, and they'll tell you they're struggling to find a route into becoming a financial advisor, but all they hear is that there's a shortage of financial advisors.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um you so why did you take a trainee on and and and why would you recommend other financial planning firms do the same?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really passionate about this, actually, Sam.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a good point to raise.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the first thing, if if we look at Sam quickly, who we've taken on.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: So Sam was working for a bank as a contractor, but because of IR 35, um, and I know that's now changed, but he was at risk of losing his contract.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he basically packed that in.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he saw that coming.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So 12 months prior, he decided to take um the exams on himself, and he got a diploma over well, just over 10 months it was.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that for me stands out that someone has took the time off their own back to sit down and do exams.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know I've done a LinkedIn post the other day about exams, but the the point I was trying to raise there, and you know, you can digest it however you want, but it's just the speed in which I think some people take those exams.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think 10 months to do the, I think he did the L I BF route, the free the free exam route.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: He did that over 10 months.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's quite sensible and sustainable.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where I I think there could be an issue is where people do three or four exams in a month.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just think, are you really taking the time to digest them?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because whenever I've done those exams, I found that I've learned so much and so many learning topics that you can go off and read about to really fully digest what it's trying to teach you, that it takes time.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that aside, I think someone doing the exams off their own bat and showing that they can pass them is a huge sort of accolade, and you know, well done to those people doing it.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I did those exams while I was in financial services, so I had a head start, it was easier for me.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if you're suddenly in a different industry doing these exams, I think it's fantastic.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes you really employable, I think.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's certainly worth having an interview with that type of person.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but why did we take on Sam?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, to be honest, I think more IFAs need to do this, and I think the issue we've got though is there's a lot of older IFAs out there which are more focused about retiring and thinking who's going to acquire my business.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, what they do in that instance is not take on new people because it increases the cost, so it makes that business look less prof less profitable.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: So instead, they want new clients to come on and they'll just cope for as long as they can until they can sell it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I I understand that, you know, you can understand the retirement, they want as much money as they can, and that's where they're sort of taking their business.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, then what that causes is a lack of um sort of apprenticeship places within financial advisory firms.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I'd love to see more IFAs taking on apprentices because ultimately we've got this other problem, which is you know, in 10 years' time, if you read the FT Advisor, I think it was 60 odd percent are going to be leaving the industry.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, who's that gonna impact?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be the clients.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't got enough financial advisors.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think IFAs should really look, especially younger IFAs, younger businesses, and look, can you create that opportunity?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Take on a new financial advisor.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, in the short term, it's gonna hurt your profits because you're gonna be paying someone, but I think long term it's gonna make your business more resilient because you're gonna be in the market when suddenly we've got this big gap of advice, which we already have, if I'm being honest, because we've never been big gap.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, this is this is the thing, but there's a big cost associated with hiring somebody, and even more so a cost within financial planning, because there's the cost of taking that person on.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say someone's really interested in becoming a financial advisor.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they've got one of their exams under their belt, okay?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: But they're looking for that trainee financial advisor role.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, it's it would be better to be a trainee financial planner in a financial planning firm, learning on the job aspects of the role itself, financial planning, having a mentor, all that type of thing, doing your qualifications whilst you're in there, and then stepping gradually into that financial planning role, perhaps you're a bit of admin, bit of power planning, you know, you're a trainee.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's what a trainee financial planner is.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the problem is, and we hit the nail on the head there, it's bloody expensive because if you're taking that person on, minimum they're gonna be wanting 25, 30k, you know, you're paying that and they're not actually doing any advice.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: So they're not doing any advice or anything like that, then you're paying for their qualifications, you're investing all that time in them.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's probably a fear associated to it that once he's level four, he's gonna bugger off, or she's gonna bugger off, you know.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then once they are level four, it doesn't mean they're a financial planner, it just means they're level four qualified.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, the journey is like years, isn't it?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: To take somebody through it.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it just puts people off.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the older um firms, which you mentioned there, what's the point in doing that?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's a cost.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: So what is the point?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the struggle that we've got.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: When you've got 1% of the financial planner population being under the age of 30, that's a major problem, right?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you're saying, like, well, some of the smaller younger firms, now, smaller younger firms really are people who, you know, we're talking sort of people in their 40s, 50s, that kind of, you know, early, early 50s, perhaps you've got another 15, 20, you know, 20 years working within it.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the ones that really should be looking at taking those trainees on.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem you've then got is over the next uh five to ten years, when we're gonna see a huge proportion of people leaving the industry because of age, not because they leave because they don't like it, but because of age, where are those remaining firms going to hire from?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can't hire an experienced financial planner, right?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have to take somebody on, and most people are saying, well, we'll take them from another industry or we use a grad scheme.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, those people aren't going to have experience of financial planning.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what do you want?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want those people to be level four qualified joining you?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Or um, are you gonna take them on, get them their level four qualifications, and give them the experience at the same time?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the that's where the problem's gonna lie.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's where we're gonna have an issue in the future is people are like, shit, I can't just take on a level four person now.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to take on somebody who's either a grad and train them up, or somebody who's got off the got got off their ass and actually got the qualifications themselves.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now that's why I think people are in such a rush to get their level four qualification because they're being told, get your level four qualification and we can do something with you.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: So they're rushing to do it.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's then about speed of getting level four to make themselves more marketable.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't really even blame these guys.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: They want to get into the industry, they want to become a financial advisor, they're being told to get level four, and when they get it, even then, some people aren't hiring them.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, talk about barriers to entry, it's crazy, isn't it?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: So then it's like, well, it's the responsibility of the firms to do it.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you've got your St.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: James's place, you've got your um quilter, and fair play, they've got their advisor academy schools in in place.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: But then I don't think that's the right route for every single person coming into the industry because it's so restrictive.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there needs to be an option there where I'm a trainee, I'm coming in, and I need to be educated on the likes of Celtic financial planning, what they do and how they do it.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, that's the type of firm that I want to work for, and then be guided to those types of companies.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: There just needs to be this contuit, if you like, this person in between helping, and that's me.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's like essentially what yeah, me, me, me, me.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: But that's I think that's what's kind of required, and it's and it's it's harsh, really, because business owners are like, Well, I want to take these people on, but I can't afford it, or you know, and did you get where I'm coming from?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ranting a bit, but I I do and on that point.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think candidates need to have a bit of responsibility in this as well.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've done your ROs, please don't think you can earn£35,000 as a trainee.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I think you need to work with get in touch with some local firms and have a coffee with them because you're right, where a firm can maybe get them on initially is for them to help with admin, help with some paraplanning work.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't warrant£35,000 a year.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if candidates work with local firms and say, look, you know, I'm happy to start at maybe 18, that will give the firm a bit of a breezer break because it's not costing them much, but it's also giving the candidate experience of working within a financial services firm.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the expectation of salary, if it can be reduced for some of those potential candidates, they'll find it easier to get positions because not every firm out there can afford£4,000 for a trainee.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're right, just because you've got your level four, you can't just jump into that role to start adding money to that business.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the likes of St.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place, for example, I think they're kind of right in the sense that when they bring somebody, say, through their academy, they actually do quite a thorough job around what their business plan might well be.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you've got the there's a when I say sort of trainee, you kind of think the first thing you think is trainee young coming out of university or college or whatever, you know, no experience wet behind the ears.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, someone could be working over as a solicitor and want to transfer their skills over to become a financial planner, or someone could be in medical scientist, you know.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was chatting to a lad yesterday and he's like um medical sales.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like he's connected to like some really wealthy doctors and and they're hard people to get in contact with, aren't they?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Well, I could be a financial advisor.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was talking to him, like, you could be a financial advisor.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's companies like Wesleyan out there that do it.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: I said, you know, and St.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: James's place will sit there and then talk to them about the actual realities of building a client book.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes that's the bit that can get missed as well.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, it's a, I don't want to say the word sales, but it is a prospecting job, isn't it?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: You have to build clients up, you have to network, you have to find people.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just I'm a financial advisor, it's a bit like saying I'm gonna be a recruitment consultant.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'll set a beer recruitment consultant.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: People walk through my door, I help people who want jobs.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, you go out and tell people about things, you have to prospect.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's an element of it as well that gets missed out, you know.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: So there's two sides of it.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's trainee, straight like apprenticeship, and then there's the guys who are actually more than capable of doing a job, got some insane transferable skills.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but they don't want to tell they don't want to start on 25k, they want to start on like 40k because they're used to earning like 80k a year.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: So there's there again is a problem, isn't it?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a barrier to entry.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: And SJP are doing quite a good job on that.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: They're saying, look, you come with us, we'll give you, we'll lend you some money, or we'll we'll work with you on the business plan and all of that kind of stuff.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll tell you whether or not you've got a chance.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of like that.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's that that's an interesting point, and that's one of my fears with um academies in general, really.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also one of my fears with bank assurance.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's great to say to someone, we'll give you 45,000, we'll give you 50,000 pounds.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: What that does from day one is introduce pressure.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it introduces pressure to close a client for a sale.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen, I've been in bank assurance, I've seen what bank managers' pressure looks like, and I've seen what they say to their mortgage advisors and financial advisors about you need to do X this month, you're behind on your target.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: That just creates pressure.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a couple of months where you don't do well or you don't see the clients, or you don't convert, you don't do the business, that pressure mounts and it creates an unhealthy environment for the individual as well as for the client because they're in front of someone who's desperate to close, basically.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: My counter on that would be if someone comes in and they're on 25k, right?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna be under even more pressure if they're used to earning 50k a year.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna so so actually the industry needs to change in respect to pay people a fairer salary.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you look at something like um the accountancy or solicitors where they're not incentivized to bring clients on, they just paid a higher, you know, you're paid a salary.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, look at someone like a tilney, right?
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: A tilney will pay like an 80k basic salary, and then you get your bonus by having a tap on the shoulder based on lots of things as to whether or not, you know, you achieve any bonus, performance of the company, compliance, all those typical types of things.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: But that person who's doing the job is actually quite comfortable with the money to the point where they don't have to then feel under pressure to miss sell or or go down the sales route.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a tricky one getting the salary right of employees, and um, and it's just like uh I think um I get where I'm coming from on that one because yeah, no, I I I do uh yeah, I do.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we don't have sales targets here.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's never going to be a question where we sit down and say, Oh, you've got to do X amount this month.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's all about the client feedback and the quality of the file, you know, the whole service proposition.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, did you communicate correctly to the client?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I'm a big believer that if you get the service right, the sales will follow.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's always how we built our business.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it just I suppose goes against the grain and what I believe in and how I would motivate someone.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest um bonus I can get from clients when they go on Google and leave me a five-star review.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's like mega, you know, because I know other clients will see that.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the biggest issue I think we have in financial services is trust.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the biggest challenges we have with a new client is building that trust with them to say that you know, we're we're an honourable firm, we're gonna do good by you, we're gonna give you good advice, and it's gonna be life-changing, hopefully.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's what I like to be rewarded on, really, is getting that feedback from clients.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, doing it doing a good doing a good job for them, basically.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: And my and my history of being in bank insurance has probably tainted my opinion going forward, hasn't it?
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you know, I can only give you my opinion based on what 100%.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's the thing.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to sort of push you down a route here and saying like what you're saying's like wrong or anything along those lines.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's just I think it's about I think that I'm just thinking we were talking a little bit about like growing a company and how to attract people, and you're going down the route of having a trainee, for example.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a great, a great route.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great way to build a business, and that's pretty much future in the future.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: How I think financial planning companies are gonna grow is through this, but there is a cost involved in that, and the cost is time mentorship.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand why the pressures on the smaller businesses is really hard to take these people on, um, because it's time and it's money, and you're not gonna see a return back on it.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: But as you said, if you're doing a bet a good job for your clients and the fee-based model is in place in the right way and you've got that recurring income coming in, then you you account for the growth of the business based on the level of good service you're doing to a client's because you know that you're gonna get a um more business in the future because you're doing a fantastic job.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's just a little bit of a slower approach, and I suppose it depends, doesn't it, how what the business looks like and how you grow.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like we said earlier, some people will just go out and pull a financial advisor in from a rival firm who brings 15 million with them, and that's their strategy, you know, almost like mini acquisitions, isn't it?
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever actually bought any client books or anything?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever go down that route?
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: Have you just purely sort of yourself gone out and acquired clients as advisors?
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: Or did you ever buy a retiring client book?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: Have you tried that at all, or have you do you do that?
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh every client we've got we've we've um sort of acquired from from seeing people basically.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, we are in the process of taking over a client bank, yeah.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's yeah, and that's uh that that's been a very um successful way for a few people to grow their businesses and and and and do it that way.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um and again, that's about really being well known, I guess, within the area, isn't it?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: And knowing other financial advisors, because one of the biggest fears a financial advisor has is that when they retire, that they leave their clients with somebody who's a bit of a dipstick, and then it and it looks badly on them, doesn't it?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like uh seeing them in the golf club.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because lifelong friendships, isn't it?
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you you're doing bad by them.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and that's one of the when I was I had an acquisition business called Gunner and Co.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: that I set up, that was IFA acquisitions, and um still going, um, but I pulled out of it.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: And um, well, yeah, one of the biggest things was you know, people actually caring about their clients, their client, you know, making sure that they had a really good home.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um, again, if you're a business that promotes fair advice and you've got good ethos and good culture, it builds that relation, builds that confidence in the advisor who's retiring, and you can bring them on, and it's a lot easier, isn't it?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: They build that relationship.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a really good way to grow as well.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um so okay, cool.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got eight eight people in there, you've hired some, you've hired a trainee.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_02: So do you sort of with do you you do what about training and development?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you invest?
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do that yourselves or do you invest externally for that type of thing?
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: And what do you do to sort of keep everybody up to date with training and development?
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we do because um I think having a strong team is is so important.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: We invest heavily.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it goes with the culture thing, and you know, that that whole sort of um that family shell, as it were, within a business, it's really important.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: So 360 are really good for ongoing training.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we have regular testing with them, loads of subject, you know, from money laundering to product tests that they support us.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we've got ongoing CPD that we have to do as advisors, and yeah, I mean the the latest um is is Ella's just done a AF1 um tax and trust planning advanced diploma.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll keep paying and keep investing in our staff to get you know as highly qualified as they can.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and to be honest, I do tests for CPD.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you do a test, you get 60 hours structured CPD.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it helps put a big tick in the box, along with you know, your other sort of CPD webinars reading that you do.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we we we do we pay for all the exams and yeah.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: So are you a chartered firm?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: Not yet, no.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: Not yet.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, let me ask that question then around charters.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is being charters um a good thing?
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: So being chartered is a good thing, but um sort of do you think being charters separates you from other financial planning firms?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: So our goal is by April will be a chartered practice.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're just um filling in some bits and pieces, you know, some gaps in the the qualification to do that.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we're hoping by by April time we'll be we'll be a chartered practice.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: So why are we doing that though is probably the important thing.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not doing it because we feel we need to do it, and nor do we feel that we've lost business or lost clients because we haven't.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: We to date we've not lost a client.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and whenever I see clients, they've never asked me about it.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: So why are we doing it?
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're just doing it because we don't want it to be a chink in our armor, from being honest, Sam.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you look at it from a search perspective, if we're shortlisted against two other advisors and they are chartered, we don't want that to be a thing that says, Well, I'm not gonna go with Celtic Financial.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like a box ticking almost to make okay.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when I when I say that, by the way, I I don't want to take away from the chartered, by the way, because it is a hellishly hard exam to pass, to be fair.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: You have to put a lot of time and effort into it.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we partner with the CII for our exams.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to be honest, nothing but good things to say about the CII.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: We think that extra sort of demonstration of technical knowledge and being able to analyse stuff is absolutely amazing.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not saying that to take away from it, because I'm a big believer in it, otherwise, I wouldn't wouldn't be doing it as a business.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, from a day-to-day practical point of view, it is more of a tick box for us.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that may change, you know, if we have RDR2 come in that says financial advisors need to be level six, then you know, I want us as a business to be ahead of that curve because I think that's potentially on the cards in the future, whether it's five, ten years, I can see that happening, if I'm being honest.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do you I wasn't I'm interested, yeah, because a lot of people are saying when we put those because both yourself and um and me put out a post recently on LinkedIn, didn't we, about L IBF versus CII.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I had some people sort of suggesting that you know, level four is too low, and actually people need to be level six chartered to really be giving financial advice, and there's a lot of people calling for that, you know, for people to be chartered before they can ever give financial advice, and they're sort of likening it to account chartered accountants and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what what do you think though?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that people should be chartered before they give financial planning?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh is that a requirement you think is necessary in the industry?
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I don't think people should have.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: To be, if I'm being honest.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the level four through the CII route, in particular, because there's those six modules and all the different subjects, plus the additional exams you can do can be very comprehensive, and it is very comprehensive.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it comes down to look, exams aren't everything when it comes to giving financial advice, it's experience, it's knowledge, it's the ongoing learning that you do, how you behave with a client, you know, all of that competency is really important.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it comes from the firm then to judge whether that person is competent to give financial advice.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I think that's more important than exams, you know, on a on a black and white basis.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but going forwards, if it gives consumers more confidence, then is it a bad thing?
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree actually.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: I suppose so, yeah.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: And but but does the consumer even know what it means?
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they do right now, no.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, they don't, do they?
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes a consumer, I think as we move forward, people want speed and efficiency.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which is why, like, I don't know, there's not much robo advice propositions that came out that have been massively challenging to financial planning firms.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I think there'll be this hybrid type approach to it where, you know, I don't really want to speak to a chartered financial advisor, I just want to do my financial, I just want to pick a few funds myself or whatever and do it myself.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, interesting.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: That these are the key things you need to be asking yourself is where do you think the industry is going?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you think regulation is going?
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because the other thing I've got on my sort of roadmap into the future, what I think the regulator might do, um, because we've seen it with contingent charging, is they'll get rid of ongoing fees in the sense that you charge a percentage of funds under management.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that going.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: I can see it again, you know, five, ten years from now, they go, you can't do that.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: You've just got a bill for a set service.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because whether you've got£500,000 or£200,000, if you're just giving the client a yearly review and cash flow modelling, um, why do you charge more from one or the other?
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, there's discussions around that, there's increased cost, there's increased risk, but I can see the regulator making us more like solicitors and accountants and saying, look, the only way you can charge is a set fee for a set service or you know your hourly rate.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, like getting rid of percentage of assets under management.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what?
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of makes sense, doesn't it, in a way?
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: That that's why I think it can happen, because it does make sense.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: If they're wanting us to become more qualified and more in line with solicitors and accountants, then that's surely going to be the natural route because accountants don't charge a percentage of the turnover, do they?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that ultimately does make it feel a bit more salesy as well, doesn't it?
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because you know, you could turn around and say to your blue interface, well, it's not about the, you know, it's not about the commissions, but that's technically commission, isn't it?
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's an ongoing commission.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_02: You can call it what you want, but it's an ongoing commission.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_02: It can be dressed up as a a review or uh, you know, uh whatever it might well be, but I suppose it is a commission.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's a bit generous, but it does pass.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd definitely say it was a fee.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: I get I get your point because it's a regular amount and it's associated to the value of something else, there is that that element of it.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's so much more transparent now, and the clients can cancel it and you know the investment can still run and it has no impact, whereas before it's built into the annual management charges of funds.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: So all that is so much better than what it used to be.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just looking into the future and I can see that the next leg uh logical step from the regulator.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the the big thing I would say to that is if you're gonna do that to us, then you can't be putting the financial services compensation scheme levy up by 60% in a year because we're not gonna be able to do that with the fees in the same way.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot has got to change in the industry before I think they can do that.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it's something as a business owner within regulated financial planning, you need to think about because if that did happen, how would you change your business model?
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I've already run the maths on our clients and what we would need to charge on different areas.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think you've got to be forward thinking.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's almost like you just switch it from like instead of it being a percentage of assets under management, it would be like an ongoing uh it would be like a subscription, wouldn't it?
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: You could you could charge them a subscription for a certain level of services, and I quite like that because then you can kind of say, well, subscription A or subscription B or subscription C.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: So you give them a choice then to what their actual of what um I don't know what level of financial planning they actually receive.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I need that's quite that's quite a good model anyway, I think.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's quite a nice model, anyway.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and to be honest, there's firms out there already doing it now.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is, uh one of the tools that we actually have um used in our back office.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So again, not wanting to sort of product place or anything like that.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this comes from a place of actually, I think it's got technology is intelligent office in Teleflow.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we use I.O.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: as our back office software, and one of the reports we can run there is a time cost for each client.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever we action something for the client, we add a task, whether it's a suitability report, whether it's a fund switch, whatever it might be, withdrawal, we can make a note of that and how much time we've spent on it, and then based on whoever's dealt with it, whether it's a financial advisor or admin, we can put their hourly rate against it.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So then we can run a yearly report to say that client has cost us 1700 pounds in in time, basically, to sort of manage that client.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So at any stage, we can demonstrate to our regulator that actually our fees are fair because look, Mr.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Regulator, these are all the actions we've done for the client and this is what it's cost us.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, you know, when we run run that report, it's it it it's always more than what uh we've actually been paid for the client.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because also, as well, for if it's if you go the way of getting rid of the assets and the management percentage, it means that you're not then alienating a certain part of the population, are you, to get financial planning?
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_02: You're kind of making it you're making because at the at the moment, correct me if I'm wrong again, okay.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is just my experience of dealing with financial advisors, is that this kind of whole minimum assets, investable assets of a client to deal with, like the idea you know the dream is like 250k minimum, isn't it?
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's like every client of my I deal with has 250k minimum because that seems to be if I'm charging three up front, one percent ongoing, that seems to be a model that is sustainable.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So by doing that, then there's a huge amount of people that aren't uh aren't being looked at out there who do need that financial planning, whereas on a subscription basis, you could make it so cheap for some people to have financial planning connect, you know, advice if you like on ongoing, whether that's through a platform or through an app or something where they're paying a subscription.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you are saying, look, you know, put your money in here, it's five grand, it's ten grand, whatever it is.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but here's our ongoing financial planning you can you can log into on the app or something.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_02: What do you so what do you think about technology and financial planning?
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Have you have you started thinking?
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously you mentioned their intelligent office, I you know, and I learned a bit about intelligent office because it's kind of you can mold that, can't you, and change it and add things to it and everything.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_02: But what about from a client perspective and what the client sees and what the client gets back?
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you thinking about bringing technology into your business and making it easier?
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, building apps and platforms, etc., where the client goes into and is getting a really kind of decent experience.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we we've we've already done that, if I'm being honest, Sam, because from day one we wanted to make sure that we were slick and that we were modern and dynamic and we had the technology to make our lives easier, but also to make us more transparent to the client and allow them to engage with us a bit easier.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, as part of I.O.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_00: we have access to the personal finance portal.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So the client can go on there, see all the plans they've got, whether they've got you know something with a Viva, something with Prudential, something with Sure, wherever it might be.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a consolidated platform, so they can see everything in one place.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: They can secure message us, we can send them documents for them to sign, they can send us stuff back, they can see tasks that we've maybe added to them.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they've got a pension plan and they're yet to drop off a statement so we can look at it, we can add a task so they know where they're up to, but they can also update their fact finds.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if they have children, if they change their job, their income changes, they can update it.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_00: That then filters back into our back office software and we get notified so we can react to that.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if a client has a new child and they've not got any protection planning because they say, Well, we've got no kids, we don't need it, that can be a flag for us to say, Well, actually, you do now because circumstances have changed.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and our client meetings are very sort of modern as well, in the sense that we have service pros again, not wanting to big up Microsoft, but they've been quite useful for us.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we can do a digital fact find while we're chatting to the client.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of writing it down, scanning it on, it's straight onto the back office software from day one.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that saves time, and then we can email them the risk questionnaire, which they can do online, and that comes back into our system.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we've already implemented lots of different technology points to be able to make our lives easier, and even our suitability reports, we we do that through OneDrive, um, through Office 365.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I can be typing on the report here, and maybe someone working from home can go into the same report and help me finish it, and we can see what each other's editing.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, all of that technology has allowed us to be cloud-based effectively and a lot more resilient, which we've seen in COVID.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, our phones were never down, we all work from home seamlessly.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, as a client ringing up or wanting something, you did not know anything different, but we were we were not here.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: This office were basically abandoned, and I was only coming in once a week to feed the flowers.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that's actually really interesting as well, because historically, financial planning, right, has always been about having people in the office.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a bit like recruitment, really, with me.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my god, people working from home, ah, we're gonna lose control, you know, they're all gonna sit there and watch Netflix all day.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's probably my fear, you know, control from a place of fear.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Probably just you.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Probably just exactly.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was at home watching Netflix, yeah, exactly.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think what I'm doing the same as what I was doing.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_02: I feel I'm doing it, they're obviously doing it.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um so with uh COVID, has it have you because most financial planning firms historically would like people in the office?
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_02: It tends to be that way.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the biggest bugbearers with like um administrators and power planners were I I can do this job at home, can't I be can I work flexi?
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and that was a big thing, and and power planners really want that type that way to work.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um do you do you think that's do you think home-based working will uh help you and your business grow with better people by having the flexibility for home-based working?
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it comes back to that point we made before.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you've got the right people working in your team, yeah, then it's not an issue, is it?
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you've got people at work for you and you don't trust them working from home, then they shouldn't be part of your team full stop, whether in the office or at home, is is my opinion.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: It will allow us to grow, you know.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially, we might need a paraplanner that we just can't source locally.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_00: But there might be someone in Southport that is absolutely amazing at their job, and actually they only need three days a week work because they they, you know, they've got a young child and they need more home time, so they can jump on and do reports for us because we've got this cloud-based company, we've got you know, VoIP phones that can be answered over the internet anywhere in the world.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: The technology is browser-based, so there is no limitation, you don't need an office.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Really, I see this premises we've got here for the foreseeable futures being maybe more of a new business center where you know initially new clients come and see us, they can touch and feel where they are, you know, they can look at the certificates on the wall and get to feel comfortable with us, but then later on they become a client that can be serviced over the internet or via you know, Zoom, Microsoft Teams, whatever it might be.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think it's really exciting, and I think what COVID has done is shown that providers also need to be a bit more dynamic and accept, you know, digital signatures, except accept scanned copies of stuff, and come into the 21st century.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I agree.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Elon Musk has put his sports car in space, and we still can't have you know eye based computers sometimes.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's a crazy guy though, Elon Musk.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just a little.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's crazy.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I love him.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I love watched him on that Joe Rogan podcast.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's um he's very interesting, isn't he?
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, the guy in my office bought some shares in Tesla, right?
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they've gone up 300% in the time that he bought them.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was about a year or something.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_02: 300%.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was impressed, but they're like 900 pounds a piece.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: We should have a little risk warning here, though, that buying direct equities is at risk, the financial advisor.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sam Oakes is not a financial advisor.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do not listen to his advice from some guy in his business who bought some dodgy online Hargrease Land Zone.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, there we go.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_02: So now listen, um what about sort of uh we talked about some of the real positives here, and we've talked about some of the things that are hard and difficult about running running a business.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: You obviously love doing it, you're you're doing it because you're passionate about it, you you're doing it because you want to um you like you don't want to be managed, you want to have your own thing.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_02: You're a it sounds like you're a bit of a creative.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a bit like that.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I'm unmanageable, it's just that I just like to be able to create and go my own path, a master of my own destiny type thing.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you weigh up the pros and cons, don't you?
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Having that, you have to kind of give up some other things as well.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what about the future of your business?
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you where do you see it going?
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_02: What does the next five years look like to you?
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Are you really excited about it?
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_02: What's your sort of future thinking?
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I am excited to be honest, because I think there's a huge opportunity out there for good financial advisors.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're in an industry where I think client demand's never been higher.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the number of inquiries we get now is much greater than last year and the year before, and the year before that.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really positive.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, I think some of that is from branding and sort of the marketing on social media, which we're really passionate about.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I am excited.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and where I want to go in the next five years, it's slowly getting rid of some of those caps that I've got and take on people to do it.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Once I'm in a position where I'm only wearing a couple of caps, then I don't know.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll sit down then and consolidate my thoughts.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_00: But my initial mission is to get to a size where some of those caps can be taken off, and I've got a really successful team that just works, and the clients are happy, everyone's happy, you know, the reviews come in, referrals keep coming in because clients are very satisfied.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we keep doing what we're doing, really, Sam.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Lovely.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_02: I we mentioned and we touched on it.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to ask you some quick questions about it, actually.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: But you you mentioned that you and you mentioned to me previously, but social media marketing is a big part of your business.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got some great success through it.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Can you just tell me why?
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Why is social media and marketing being such an integral part of you winning clients?
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's been a big part of winning clients, but it's also helped us not necessarily retain clients, but it's helped with clients exist in client engagement.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's because they can see what we're doing.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're so transparent.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't use social media as a sales platform.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you look at social media or or our social media accounts, you don't see sales stuff in there.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_00: You'll see my dog, you'll see the teddy bear wearing some headphones, you'll see our meeting room, you see certificates.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_00: What we're doing is sharing our personality and what we're doing as a team because we're so proud of who we are as a team, we just want to share it.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, our existing clients can go on and say, Oh, look, you know, Rob's been litter picking today, or you know, Ella's done this, and oh look, the dog's been in showing off this.
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that sort of engagement with those existing clients which is really important, and then it's twofold, isn't it?
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're on social media, we're engaging with the local community, people see that and they go, Well, that's a bit different, and they get to see who we are.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got clients that have followed us for 12 months and then decided to get in touch because they've spent that time doing their due diligence.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, social media now, because we're spending much more of our lives on there, I think if you're not on there as a business, whatever business you're in, you're really missing out.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_00: But don't do the hard self because I think it's just it's just not nice.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, I learned that as well.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're just pounding, I tell the guys in the office, stop pounding the jobs, stop putting job, job, job, job, job.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you put something out there that's gonna be engaging and interesting and get a bit of a conversation going?
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you give them something that's gonna add some value?
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like create some content or have a discussion around something that's gonna add value if people share their thoughts and opinions.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what you're doing really well, Sam.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're really nailing it because you know, like the video you did um yesterday about um the opinion about CII versus the other routes, and you had a bit of a laugh saying, I don't care what you think anyway.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's great, isn't it?
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's showing the personality.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's personal, it's personal brand.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I picked up on that because I I there was a I've started looking into personal branding, and I think it's something that financial planners could, without a shadow of a doubt, start investing in is their personal brand.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we all worry and get quite fearful of putting ourselves out there, you know.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I looked over a video of seven months ago where I put a video out and I was like really stiff and I was talking away, and I was just trying to make sure that what I was saying was right.
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_02: And now I don't care.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now, like if I look at a video now, I say what I want to say.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_02: You can't make friends of everybody.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are gonna look at me and think, look at him, he sounds like a right, arrogant git or something.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, I'm just being authentic and I'm being myself.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_02: If I can come across as authentic myself, then the right people will come to me and the right people will want to work with me because they'll they'll get me, you know.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_02: And isn't that what we want?
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_02: We want we don't want to win people that we don't really like.
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_02: We want to win people that we like.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's enough people out there, you know?
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a really big point with clients, actually, Sam.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're putting yourself out there and showing your personality, you're gonna naturally attract the clients that are gonna work well with you.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when clients come to see us, often they've already made their decision whether they want to do business with us because they've got to know us.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure, but I'm unable to prove it.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_00: That there's clients out there that go, they're not right for me, they're too informal, you know.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I want them in a pinstripe suit, and that's absolutely fine.
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there's advisors out there that fit that profile, but the good thing for me, I never get to see them, so I never have to sit in an awkward conversation with a client that doesn't want to be my client.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really love that.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if I was to, and again, we talked earlier about the financial planning side of it, you know, and I'm being quite open.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_02: I am I am interested in financial planning as a career.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I run a financial planning recruitment company.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_02: One of the hardest things about growing a financial planning business is growing the staff.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a whole business that that takes care of and and and recruits the financial planners.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if I set up a financial planning business, I think my ability to grow it is is quite strong, especially if I partner with some really good financial planners that I can kind of banks off of as well.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And again, of course, I know people like that.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And my background of marketing and branding, I think there's something there, you know, and I think I'm on a certain pathway there.
• 1:25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that this journey that I'm on with this branding and and doing like social media and talking to advisors, it's just elevating me up a little bit higher, if you like.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and then I see, like, well, okay, well, who am I and what am I, and who could I connect with, and who could I relate to?
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the more you put yourself out there, then you know, you look at quite you, you look at LinkedIn, right?
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so like on LinkedIn because that's what we do as recruiters.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Every single client, really, that you want to work with is on there.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know what they do for a living, they give you loads of information about who they are, what they do, what position they're in.
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got a good idea of how much they earn and what stresses or pressures they might be under.
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I just think that I could do really well around that in a targeted manner.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And even if I looked at the recruitment industry, right, I've been in the recruitment industry for like 12, 13 years.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's no financial advisor that specifically says, I'm a financial advisor for the recruitment industry.
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'd marketed myself as the financial advisor for the recruitment industry, already I run a recruitment agency, so I can relate to them and I can talk about the things that they might be concerned about.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if they're young and they want to buy a house because they've just got a 10 grand or 15 grand bonus doing recruitment, instead of spunk, you know, taking it down the pub and drinking it, why don't you invest it and let's buy that house?
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I start I could drop things in there and I become that recruit that advisor of choice for the recruiter industry.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think niche finding your niche specialism and your niche audience is key.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I could see that being done more within financial planning.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I really loved it when I had Kieran Bywater on because he's an ex-professional football player, and uh he wants to be a niche financial planner to the footballers because he knows what it's like to lose your contract, right, you know, and be out on your ass.
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_02: So he's saying to these people, I've been there, done it, got the t-shirt, don't make the same mistake I did.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I really, really like that and I admire that.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's about finding a niche personal brand.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think more financial advisors can do it.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_02: You you yourself as well, you you're very active, and and I like it.
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and Instagram's a very un underutilised uh you know, platform, isn't it?
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a very visual platform, so it's all about video and pictures, and I think that's nice, whereas sometimes LinkedIn can be a bit formal, can't it?
• 1:27:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and um it's becoming a bit more friendlier.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_02: But um using link using Instagram, for example, is a great, great way for and and also if you're looking at people who are in their 20s, I mean they're using Instagram, you know.
• 1:27:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's what and some of these guys are earning stupid money.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like my missus sells like jewelry now, and some of the influencers she's starting to work with are loaded, you know.
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_02: You've got people from like the only way is Essex and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what on that on that point as well, Sam, they're also the clients of the future because unfortunately, you know, people pass on and they're gonna get the inheritance maybe from their parents or their grandparents.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are they gonna do with that money?
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because they've they've never had it before.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they might be earning good money, but they've not had that issue of, oh, I've got£100,000 here, what do we do with it?
• 1:28:20
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you're absolutely right, you've got to find your niche.
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Our niche really is the corporate social responsibility and community.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, probably 50-60% of our clients are local, although we've got clients all over the UK.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's just driving that unique sort of brand of a business, I think, is key.
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm just glad you're in Bristol, really, and not in mould, because yeah, I think you'd have a good little uh a good go at it.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll tell you what, I could come and you've got your business centre, you'll invest in me.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_02: You'll you'll help me get my recruit my my financial planning company off the ground, eh?
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're only normally for startups, but we can have a chat.
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm a startup.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right, okay.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, I I don't want to take too much more of your time because we've talked for a while, but I've really um valued um this conversation actually, and um, and thank you because you're one of the first actually that I've brought on that that has an established business where you're hiring people, and I would like to get more people on as well from that background.
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for your time.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_02: I I really appreciate it.
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think anybody listening to this will will appreciate it as well.
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, of course, I wish you all the best.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and I would like to keep in contact with you because I think um, you know, I as I keep in contact with everybody that comes in the podcast, it's been real real pleasure to have you on.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great thanks, Sam.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I'll have to come down to Bristol and have a beer with you because I do like that part of the world.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome anytime, 100%.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I like I like North Wales, it's beautiful up there, isn't it?
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 1:29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, perfect.
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Top man.
• 1:29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, have a wonderful rest of your day, and um, thanks so much for your time.
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Sam.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers, buddy.