Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.39 | Behind the Scenes of Passive Income: What it Really Takes to Make Money while You Sleep with Online Course Strategist, Gemma Bonham-Carter

Transcript

Ep.39 | Behind the Scenes of Passive Income: What it Really Takes to Make Money while You Sleep with Online Course Strategist, Gemma Bonham-Carter · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Curiously Guided Podcast, the place for intuitive business owners.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're your hosts, Mariah and Shay.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And today we are chatting with a super special guest, Gemma Bonham Carter.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very happy that I just pronounced her name right because if you guys heard the conversations before this, I was trying and trying and trying and literally just messing it up.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So this is this is a win within the first 30 seconds of the podcast.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so back to Gemma.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast we literally just recorded last week.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of still fresh in our minds here.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like it's just it's so fucking powerful, especially when it comes to passive income.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the online space, we all know passive income is like shoved down our throats as like the answer to every problem you've ever had in your entire life.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And fuck it, create one thing, and then you'll wake up with so many sales, and your emails will be flooded.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we've all seen the reels and the Instagram stories where it's like screenshots of payment notifications in the emails, and it's like, okay, but there's gotta be some foundations behind that.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: So in this episode, we kind of had a conversation with Gemma about like pulling back the curtain, getting behind the scenes.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does it really take to make money as you sleep?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: What does it really take to create a quote unquote passive business?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like, what does that even mean?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is that still possible in like the digital landscape that we're in right now?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, we me and Shay kind of had so many different questions, and Gemma is she's a fucking rock star.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I named her before the episode before we started recording.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, dude, you're just like the passive income queen.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like the content that she creates, the information, the education, the way that she supports people and her perspectives that she gives and allowing people to kind of shift what they really need to do versus what they think they need to do.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the sauce, like the good sauce, not the bad sauce.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the best fucking sauce.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And my favorite part of this episode was when I had this huge light bulb moment of like when we're talking about passive income, the whole thing is not passive, the product is passive.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you create a PDF and like the actual creation and delivery of the solution, that's the passive part.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing is not passive.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like just having that differentiation between the two product is passive, marketing is not passive.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, holy fuck, where's this information been all my life?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it just made so many things click, and I feel like it's just a really good way to sum up passive income in a way that actually makes sense with like how it works.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, Shay, what was what was your favorite takeaway of the episode?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a tough one.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: This episode really honestly helped me have a massive mindset shift.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like passive income is something that um it's almost like this elusive golden idol that we all got into the online world trying to find.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you hear a lot about it and um a lot about maybe how the tides are changing in that world and how it's not possible in the way that it used to be, and you can't do that anymore.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And what I found really encouraging about Jemma and her story and this episode was you know, there's really some fundamentals that we can always go back to and stick with that are really timeless.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: And just because things are changing and shifting doesn't mean that um we need we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So she just shares some really, I think, timeless sage advice in here that's got me personally feeling reinvigorated and re-inspired to pursue passive income in my own way and how that would work with my business.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm really just excited to share her story.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, she actually uh mentioned after we pressed finished on or pressed finalized recording on this episode that this was kind of a unique opportunity for her in the sense that we asked her some questions more behind the scenes of her why and how she thinks the way she does and how her brain works.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think she kind of got to um share some things that she doesn't normally get to share, which was kind of a special experience.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I certainly got a ton of just practical, useful info.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was telling Mariah, I've re-listened to it a couple of times, and every time there's like something new that I miss I want to dive into.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this thing is just jam-packed, and I'm really excited to share it with our audience.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like so so much so that like after we hopped off the recording, me and Shay had a brainstorm session about Shay's passive income product.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: We were like, There's so many things that she could do, and do this and do that and do this.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, don't think that this episode is gonna be like the five ways to create passive income and make money while you sleep.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that is yes, Gemma drops like some strategic advice and like some different perspective shifts, but it's more it's as everything on our fucking podcasts, it's deeper than that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like you're not just gonna get the strategy, you're gonna get the why behind it.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's so fucking powerful.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, this is a great one.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, just to give you a little bit about Gemma, here's her bio.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Gemma Bonham Carter is an online course strategist and digital marketer who has helped over 8,000 entrepreneurs launch and scale their businesses.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: With her two signature programs, Course Creator School and the Passive Project, Gemma coaches clients on how to monetize their skills using online courses and digital products.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: She helps her clients build scalable, sustainable digital businesses with a long-term vision and effective strategies that work throughout industries, from entrepreneurship, the arts, nutrition, health and wellness, parenting, and more.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: She was named by Entrepreneur Magazine as one of the top five businesswomen to follow in 2021.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And when she's not giving a live training inside of her student communities, you'll find her chasing her two young kids, tackling her next real estate investment property, or watching Real Housewives.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And one more thing before we dive into the episode, we are very excited to announce if you're listening to the episode live or within the next coming weeks of release.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: We are partnering with our good friend Miranda Rodriguez, who was a former guest on the podcast this season.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: She is a digital marketing expert and um just all around wonderful human who it's very aligned with Mariah and I'st style.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: We decided um to put together a really unique and I think one-of-a-kind workshop all around.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um we're calling it minimalist marketing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking of it as like Marie Kondoing your marketing plan.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing we've noticed with all of our clients is when it comes to creating a quote unquote marketing plan, we all feel very overwhelmed and bombarded with all the options.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many choices out there.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's no lack of um opportunities when it comes to marketing.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: But the the trade-off is that can be pretty overwhelming.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think most of us feel like we need to have this really crazy dynamic marketing plan with passive and active.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we talk about all that stuff in different episodes.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: But really, as Mariah actually really poignantly said earlier this season, marketing comes down to letting people know, getting in front of the right people and letting them know about what you do and what you have to offer.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we can really strip it back.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: And marketing does not need to be so complicated.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, the intention of this workshop, Miranda, Mariah, and I are all gonna come together and bring in our unique um zones of genius and tackle the three elements of marketing know, like, and trust, from the perspective of how could we create something that is so simplified and built around you, your unique zone of genius, your gifts, your skill set.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And our goal is that you're gonna walk away with something that, you know, feels very doable, very straightforward and crystal clear.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: So sifts through all the noise and helps you really focus in on a marketing plan that is aligned for you and how you light up and how you serve people.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and Mariah, can you fill us in on the specific details around the workshop?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I just want to highlight really quick, thank you for that commercial about the workshop.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like, okay, guys, Shay, this is like one of her fucking zones of genius.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: She just riffed all of that.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like literally, I have to take notes and just like word vomit what I write down half the time.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she was just like, Marie conduiting your blah blah blah, and this is blah blah blah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I couldn't have fucking said about her myself.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: God bless.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so to the details of the minimalist marketing workshop.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you can get your ticket at curiouslyguided.com slash marketing dash workshop.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we are going to leave the link to that in the show notes below, but the workshop is going to be hosted live with, as Shay said, me, Miranda, and Shay.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be live on October 6th, 2022.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna kick it off at 6 p.m.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Eastern.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Tickets are super fucking low.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: They are$27 to get access to the workshop.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: You will obviously get a recording of the workshop.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't make it live, it's gonna be just as powerful the recording.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you will also get a workbook that we're creating that has like the outline of questions and like, guys, it's it's literally like uh duh yes moment.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So grab your ticket, join us for the workshop.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're so fucking excited.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: But until then, let's talk about passive income with Gemma.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we're just gonna kick it into the episode.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Gemma, we're so excited to have you on the podcast today.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're just like, when I think of you, I just think of like the passive income queen.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're just like a G when it comes to that shit with like educational courses and just like practical solutions that kind of pull back the curtain in terms of just like what does it take to actually build a business in a digital space, not just for the sake of building one, but like for the sake of like building a life that you want, supporting the lifestyle that you want.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like before we even came on and pressed record, you kind of chatted about like how you spent a lot of your summer like sitting outside and like working outside and being outside.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm just I'm excited to dive into this.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like passive income, but especially intentional passive income, not just like creating a fucking checklist and putting it up on the internet, inspecting everybody and their mom to purchase it immediately right after you publish it.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's um there's such a gap in our industry in terms of like what does it take to do that?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: What does it take to actually make this thing work?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just excited to kind of dive in and kind of just see where this conversation goes.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for being here.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's interesting.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that uh there's a couple of things.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like one was that I from the very beginning had a deep sense of what I wanted my life to be able to look like, and had some fairly strong non-negotiables around work life balance and you know, having time to hang with my kids, being able to be outside, travel, like all of those things.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the driving factor for me to build my business.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't this like, how can I make the most money on the internet as possible tomorrow?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, how can I build a business where I can do these other things that I want to do?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Build a business I really love and enjoy and feel fulfilled and excited by.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I think those are just like some of the, maybe some of the reasons why I've ended up where I've ended up.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: So uh for where from where I'm sitting, it seems like you're really living the internet dream life, you know, what we're all aspiring to do.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Can you take us through the journey?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: How did you get started and how did the business grow into what it is today?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good question.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: It feels weird to have people say that because no matter where you are in your business, like you're just then thinking about the next step.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't, I in no way, shape, or form do I feel like I have arrived and like this is it, you know, like not even close.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I've been doing like I've been doing the internets for a while.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I um I started a blog back in 2010.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it was purely out of a creative passion.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote about like decorating my fixer upper home.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was not at all business related.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I had no intentions of it ever being a business.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was just blogging was like this new thing.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, dang, that's seems fun.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm creative like that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I just started a blog.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And lo and behold, I fell in love with it, ended up turning it into a real thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was a legit side hustle.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: When I look back on it now, I'm like, dang, like I was working with Home Depot and Rona and like all these brands.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I had like good ad revenue and I was figuring out affiliate marketing and figuring out brands before brand deals were like the way to make money.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like this was there were like the word, like to have a sponsored post was like what we did back then.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there was not even the name, like saying the brand deal wasn't even the language.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, I've got a sponsored post with Home Depot and we're gonna talk about their paint line.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so no, I turned it into a really legit thing and I and I loved it.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think actually it set me up for success in the way that I first of all like figured out content marketing and putting together content.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: That was a huge learning lesson there.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, if you went back to some of my early blog posts, it's like horrific.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I figured out some business stuff.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not a I don't have a business background.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have a background in public health.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was gonna change the world in global health.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: That was like always my plan.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it gave me a bit of a business foundation and you know, pitching and even just like bookkeeping and you know, things like that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it also just sort of allowed me to find my voice and find out like what I like doing.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it I realized what I actually really love doing more than the DIY projects that I was sharing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I really liked building, creating the business part of it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I liked the back-end systems and I liked I liked creating content.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that I wanted to do the project so I could take the pictures and write about it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I actually liked building the blog post or, you know, whatever that was, or the graphics or stuff.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and doing all the behind the scenes stuff.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I followed that path for a while.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: We would be here all day if I shared how many different business ideas I tried in those years, like especially after I had my daughter, my first child, where I was like, I am in no way, shape, or form gonna go back to my nine to five.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was not on the table for me and did not want that at all.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just sorry, I'm never coming back.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm allergic.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm allergic to the nine to five.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up doing some contracts in public health.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was still making some dough, but able to like do it from home and on my own time while I was also trying to figure out the next thing.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like decorating people's houses.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I did DIY workshops, kind of like the cool version of Paint Night.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Remember when Paint Night was a thing?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, but it was like cute like projects, not like ugly, not like ugly paintings.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no shade.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, to paint night people.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I decorated weddings, I built websites for people, like I just did a thousand different things.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that I could do that I had some level of skill set for, I did it for a paycheck while I was just trying to figure out the damn thing.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And during that time, I got asked to speak at a conference for bloggers.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and spoke at this conference.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time, I was also like, I had an online shop.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was selling like teas and mugs and um art prints and all that kind of stuff.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to this conference and I spoke about blogging.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, I had all these people afterwards just be like, oh my God, that was amazing.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: That was so helpful.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: You just like, wow, you just gave us so much strategy.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Someone even sent me a card in the mail, like, how old school is that to thank me for my talk?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Giving that presentation, I was obsessed.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So then I was like suddenly went down this rabbit hole of like, well, how can I teach stuff?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I don't know, I put the right couple things into Google and I started to like dive into the world of online courses.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I took my first course from Melissa Griffin.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys remember her?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like a Pinterest person.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I took her course about how to use Pinterest for my blog, and I got amazing results from her course.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I also was like, damn, I love this course thing.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I went deep into it.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like the beginning of the shift.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so my initial courses were teaching other bloggers, like teaching bloggers what I had done.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and eventually that led to people saying, well, then hang on a second, how have you done this course thing?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like I started with like a course about courses, like how cliche and gross, right?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I started with teaching bloggers and then, you know, three years later, pivoted into this, um, into like educating people around online courses and digital products and kind of moving into that space.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been there ever since.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so one existential crisis I've been having lately is I'm really clear on the life I want to live, you know, my dream lifestyle.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's always been very clear to me.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: What has not always been very clear is um, you know, this idea of like purpose or calling or mission, or, you know, there's that Japanese concept, ikki guy.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I I've been feeling um, you know, like vaguely I have I feel fired up about like supporting women in some way, but it's been unclear like exactly how to do that or how that will take form.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So what I'm hearing from you is that having total clarity around your life's calling isn't really the point.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I instead, uh a much more empowering strategy could be where and what's the feedback I'm getting right now?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Where are people telling me that I'm valuable?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Where am I getting letters in the mail?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then also, where am I feeling lit up?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: What is uh lighting my fire right now?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Where do I want to show up?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so it what I heard from you is that at all of these like major pivot points, you took a moment to stop and really listen.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Where you were really providing value, that's how you made your decision to take the next baby step.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, this is so empowering because it's telling me, you know, I don't need to have this big, lofty life mission figured out.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, I can just stay focused, of course, stay focused on the present moment.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Where's the feedback coming?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Where am I providing value?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Where does that overlap with what's lighting me up?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then how can I use that as a data point to take the next baby step?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do I still even know my life's calling now?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like probably no, like, does anyone?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I, you know, definitely did exactly what you said of like listening to the what the chitter chatter that's happening around me, of like where were people clearly seeing that I had something that they were inspired by or wanted to learn about or wanted.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, that I felt excited to do.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Did I feel excited in those early days to build websites?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: But like I knew how to build a website and it was a paycheck, and it learned like I learned skills in doing that.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, sometimes I had to do stuff that wasn't Necessarily what lit me up.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that was okay.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was all like a learning along the way.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And never once did I was I sitting there with this feeling of like, that is it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is the exact thing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know that the course needs to be about this topic.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've like, and I think if anyone puts that type of pressure on themselves, man, you are going to be sitting in analysis paralysis for a long time because I don't know that you're ever going to get like the perfect sign or the perfect feeling.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: You actually just need to start taking action and doing the things, and you're going to find the clarity in the path from there.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think this brings another thing of just like how much I think like us as humans, like bird's eye perspective on like a macro scale of like how much we place expectations on our actions, which then squanders the results and like and then gets us nowhere even near the expectations because we've been white knuckling it the entire time.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, how can we allow ourselves to to have fun and to loosen the expectations and instead be like, okay, this is just one baby step.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: This does not mean that, like, if I decide to do a website for Jenny down the street making cupcakes, it doesn't mean that I am now a official website designer.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're allowed to do random shit.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so true.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I didn't, I don't even think in all those years, like it's not like I had even set goals for myself.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was just kind of doing the next right thing and doing one thing at a time.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um not necessarily, yeah, building towards something.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably, you know, do I even do I set goals today?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I set goals, but like they're not I don't know.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I I set intentions and like I think about where I want what I want to feel like and generally where I want to head.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if we're like too rigid in sticking to a certain path, you don't end up seeing the avenues for like exploring other things and I don't know, sometimes taking a better turn.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like um, I feel like shit, I was gonna, I was oh, uh, it's like this this huge marketing plan.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: It just can't like, is that are we being marketed to in terms of like you have to create this insane, wild, intricate marketing plan.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, isn't that being said by people that are in turn wanting to help us create an intricate, super strategic, structured marketing plan?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's but it's like, and I think that there is some value there of like, yeah, that is very helpful.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, but when we jump into that and think that that's the solution that we need, we then expect that to be the only solution that we need.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so therefore, we put expectations on that when it's like, what if that isn't the way that we're supposed to do it?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: What if the way that we're supposed to do it is have the intention and see the light at the end of the tunnel, and then maybe there's little side roads here that we kind of take and figure it out instead of following this exact marketing plan because we're being sold marketing plans by people that want to sell us marketing plans.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's and the like add-on to that conversation is this idea of like, I and I'm someone who I buy programs and tools and read books and love learning stuff.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I, but I do it all with some critical thought around, okay, let me learn everything about whether it's this strategy or this tool or whatever it might be, but then think through how it plays and works with the way I like to do things.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't, it doesn't, and it's not something I integrate.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if it does, well, maybe I'm using part of it, or maybe I'm, you know, just there are certain lessons that I'm taking from that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't necessarily have to always do it A to Z exact or A to Z for the Americans listening, uh, exactly how they said I need to.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just going into it with some critical thought and making sure that your voice and opinion doesn't get lost when you are learning from others.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, I loved what you said about goals, you know, specifically being more emotion-based and feelings-based.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I really have um gotten a lot out of goal setting around how I want to feel on a day-to-day basis and focusing goals more on that kind of like day-to-day, in-the-moment feeling, you know, in my dream life, how am I feeling in every moment?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: I found that to be really powerful.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I loved that you shared that.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, to take the conversation in a different direction, I'm curious.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: You just mentioned something about being a lifelong learner.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's definitely um a title I resonate with.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I perhaps even lean into um an information hoarder.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love um buying new courses, learning new things, gathering up all the info.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that the online business world and the coaching and education world around it is evolving and growing right now.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: These days, I'm assuming you're still investing in courses and coaching.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: What are you looking for?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: What are the green lights?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of repels you?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, can you take us behind the scenes of how you're investing in yourself and in your business when it comes to new courses and coaching?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good, such a good question.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll say that I still invest in from time to time, I will still invest in lower ticket, like real digital products, like a template or a tool or something where someone has saved me some time and I can just get that task done faster if I were to buy their, you know,$50,$100 thing that is just gonna like save me some time.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like the, you know, um, about three or four weeks ago, I was gearing up to do a promotion this fall.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's a copywriter that I love, and I was like, ooh, I wonder, like I could really, I'd love to not start from scratch on these.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to like if she has like a launch swipe file or something, went to her site, found one, bought it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: It saved me so much time.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: So like I still invest in that kind of thing.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and then I also do still invest in kind of higher ticket mentorships type type stuff, but it's less at this stage for me and my business, it's less mid-range courses and it's more of um sort of that next level that might include like more of a one-to-one component with the mentor.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm working with someone right now, he's someone that I've had read his emails for probably four years, like just felt like he really knew his stuff.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he it this is in the marketing field, like just incredibly knowledgeable kind of guy.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And felt like, okay, yeah, this is now the right time for me.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the thing is before I used to get caught up in the noise of other people's launches and be like, oh, the, you know, that it felt really exciting in the launch.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So let me buy the thing now, but it wasn't actually the right time for me to learn that thing.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And now I come from a place of, okay, here I am in my business.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's my next step as a business owner?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, my next step is to I want to really want to tackle this or I want to learn this, or maybe it's like hiring a team or whatever that looks like, being a better leader.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then finding the right person to invest in to learn that thing at that time.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me right now, um, it's just I'm just working with this one mentor.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we, it's not like um super consistent coaching calls, even.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just we schedule a call once every month or two or something when I need it, but I've got all of his, all of his um content and I'm just sort of slowly going through it at my own pace.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: But he's a very high-level smart marketer and I'm learning stuff from him that I, yeah, that is sort of taking my knowledge, particularly around email marketing, to another level.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I'm investing in.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: But like if I were to not talk business, if I were to talk like self, like personal development stuff, or I'm also interested in real estate.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I buy just I'll buy regular courses about real estate these days because we're getting into real estate investing.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Self-development stuff.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just signed up for a 12-month program where we have a retreat once a month on like on a particular Sunday, um, so that I know that I'm like pouring into myself.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I do this other thing called daily awakenings, which is like a meditation journaling thing three mornings a week at 6 30 in the morning.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, isn't Shay the same person?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's why you guys are the same.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm literally like, Shay, I'm just watching her facial expressions.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everything that you're saying, her eyes are like lighting up bigger and bigger.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, mm-hmm.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I really love the lesson you're sharing here.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: I am someone who totally gets caught up in the launch.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I actually learned this lesson recently this year.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I was on this woman's list.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: I really liked her.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: I liked all the content that she released.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she did a big launch, and I definitely got caught up in the marketing of all of it.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I joined a program um that quite honestly I knew I wasn't ready for.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I I there's nothing wrong with the program.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I see a lot of other people getting a lot out of it, but I'm not in the right phase right now.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um I it's just not where my interests lie, and I've been having trouble getting into it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I wish I would have taken, I I love what you're saying here is we can take a more intentional approach when we're investing.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let it start with you getting clear on where the gaps are, where you're feeling maybe the blind spots or where you're fitting, feeling lit up, and where you want to dive in and where you're getting feedback around, you know, and and using that as okay, this is what I want to add intentionally to my arsenal, and then going to find the course that fills that specific need.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: That that really helps some light bulbs go off in my head.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for sharing that.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's an important one.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one that I think unfortunately, probably a lot of us have those same stories.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a bit of like, you know, we got not burned isn't the right word, because it wasn't that they were misaligned or so, you know, like misrepresentating, misrepresenting what they're selling.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you get burned a little bit.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you, you know, probably too many of us have like a bunch of courses in the what people call like the course graveyard of like stuff you never went through.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh dang, like, why did I buy that?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think just with time, you suddenly become like more aware and intentional about those investments.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I became more structured too around giving myself an amount.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like if I gave myself a dollar amount per year for professional development, then it allowed me to actually have some more critical thinking around what was I gonna spend that dollar amount on, as opposed to getting caught up in the launches.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think my bookkeeper would appreciate if I did something like that because I'm fucking forwarding her receipts and I'm like, yo, and she's like, bitch, you're wild.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't say that to me, but in her brain, 100%, she's like, she's eye rolling and being like, here Mariah goes again.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just it's a it's a really good um strategic example of the phrase, like when the student is ready, the teacher will come.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I like that.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like we have to trust that, like, where we are in this business.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we say it on this podcast all the time.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't have to do everything.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have to, what's more important, what skill is the most important, and it keeps coming back, is fucking discernment of just like, listen, there are a trillion ways to grow a business, to do a business.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: You get to on this earth plane, you get to taste and test and figure it out.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then it is your responsibility to take those pieces and put them together in a way that works for you because nobody else is you and nobody else can put it together in a way that works for you.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I feel like a lot of us, I mean, especially when we first start, like we can't have that muscle strengthened already.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is something that takes time.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I just don't hear it being talked about of like this is a muscle that will strengthen and like allow yourself to strengthen it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And once you get to a certain phase in business, like how can you bring that awareness to the forefront of like what have I learned?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is mine, what is not mine?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in the beginning, it is important to kind of just get the fuck in there, get in there, push him into the ring.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't you'll figure out what you don't know real quick.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: You'll figure out what you like, what you don't like, what's cool, what's not cool for you personally.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then like you get to test and tweak and figure it out.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so important because I think people get scared to just jump in the ring, and then and then the business doesn't happen, or the goals don't ever materialize, or they never move forward because they're too scared.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to yeah, push through that and just jump right in and just leap.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the clarity comes so much faster once you do.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I did want to bring it back to like a piece of your story that you that you shared is like being willing to do things just for the money in the beginning.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: People people are getting this message in the fucking online space where it's like once you decide that you have a business, create it and they will come.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with passive income, right?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Create the PDF, people will buy it.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: You just gotta slap some SEO keywords on there and blah blah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, I very much support slapping SEO keywords all over the fucking thing.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Please do that.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like there are other pieces that come into play here.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like be okay with like making money in other ways than this thing that you want to make money in down the road.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: We've all done it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think literally every successful business owner has done that.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that I know anybody in this online space personally that made the decision, took the jump, and literally in fucking three months was like, yo, um, I got six figs, seven.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: What I know.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is like, if they if you are thinking to yourself, like, ooh, but I know that so and so, you know, they started it really quickly and it became something really quickly.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Ask yourself this.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did they have three businesses before that?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you, if I was starting like a new business today around, I mean, let's just pretend it was real estate investing.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pretend I was a something expert and I decided to create a course or digital product or something, given the skill set that I now have, yeah, I could probably turn that around pretty fast and turn it into something because I have 12 years of background, right?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you're starting, if you're in growth early days, like you have to know that it's gonna take some time.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do not get sucked into some marketing messages or like the Facebook ad stuff that says that it can happen overnight, because that's just not a reality.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, also be okay making money in all kinds of weird ways, even if it's not the way that you hope to always make your money, if that makes sense.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like be financially stable and secure.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, if that means doing some other for me, like the website building, like if that meant doing that on the side for the first little bit because I was building out this other stuff and just trying to figure it out, that's okay.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's no shame in that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, it's like it demonstrates my grit and you know, perseverance.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is something that I end up talking with coaching clients about a lot.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really, you know, there's different phases when you're starting a business and growing a business.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's really, I think when you're getting started, you're in this survival phase where you need to just make sure that your base needs are covered.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we need to have shelter, we need to have food.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um, if you are in a place where you're not sure if your base needs are covered, it's really hard to have the mantle, the mantle, the mental bandwidth to think bigger and to think about, you know, more like lofty topics like purpose and the lifestyle design, you know, all these kind of like bigger, fun stuff that we've been mentioning.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that there's an urge when you get started in your business, you want to jump into that phase.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: You want to pass up that survival mode and kind of get into more of that thriving type phase.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that we can do ourselves a disservice by trying to rush that piece because um we have to go through that.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody has to go through that.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like science experiment phase.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: You have to just throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: What do you like doing?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: What do you not like doing?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you getting feedback that you're providing value?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what's lighting you up?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: You have to collect all those data points.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: And the way you do that is by just taking on whatever you can get.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I love that we all three have done websites here.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: I honestly um I find it kind of empowering that if I were to ever be hungry, I could go build a website for somebody.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's nice to have skills that I've learned in my back pocket that I know could make me money whenever I need.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really grateful for all those experiences, but I'm also grateful that I'm not building websites anymore because I was able to, through the hustling in the beginning and just taking on whatever I could get, I got really clear on what my zone of genius is and where I could lean in and turn the volume up.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what really helped me get out of that survival phase into thriving.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then once you're in that thrival, thriving type place and your base needs are covered, all of a sudden you have all this space to think about these bigger, kind of fun lifestyle design type goals that we're talking about.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I share all this to say if you are in that survival place and some of us dip, we go from thriving to surviving and back and forth.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Don't beat yourself up while you're there.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Don't shame yourself.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Don't try to pretend like you're not there and you know, you're talking you're talking about scaling when you haven't even sold one thing yet.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just be honest about where you're at and embrace that phase and be gentle with yourself.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're just trying to worry about how to pay the bills, you're not really gonna have time to think about are you fulfilling your life's purpose this month?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's cool.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: That'll be a phase later for you.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Focus on where you're at and give yourself a little bit of grace and love to embrace that season and know that in later phases you're gonna get what you're looking for.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna say, like, let's also not put a time frame on it.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like so many people assume it's like, oh, okay, yeah, for the first year I'll have to work another job or I'll have to take on random shit.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it could be for the first 10 years, for the first fucking 20 years.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, once you put a time frame on it, and then you pass that time frame and say, like, then six months after that time frame ends, let's say, like, I don't know, after five years, I'm no longer gonna do websites to make extra money.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's year six, and you need to take on a website to do extra money, that's gonna start a shame spiral where it's unnecessary because you're the one that gave that random fucking time frame.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, why are we doing this to ourselves?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Of like, why can't we just like like Shay said, I don't know, pat ourselves on the back.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how empowering is it that like I am so resilient and such an amazing problem solver that like when I need money, I can make money.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: How fucking cool is that?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, my mom, I love my mom.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: My mom could never do that.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: My mom would be like, uh, somebody hire me, help.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like we have all these skills now.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what do you mean?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's it's so underrated.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, try not to give yourself a time frame on it because like shit happens, and like there is no time, there can't be a time frame.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: It just is what it is, and it's not what it's not.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that a lot.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact you're so right that by and large, most people wouldn't know how to just make money tomorrow if they needed to make money tomorrow.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, we are a very small percentage, even though all of us entrepreneurs are just listening to all the other entrepreneurship podcasts out there, and we think that like there's so many of us.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually a very small percentage when you think about it.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a it's an amazing thing.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's also a great feeling.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't get that feeling of being scared of I, you know, I don't if we're gonna be in a recession or you know, what however this period gets defined in terms of like the challenges to the economy and stuff.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know that I'm gonna be okay because I have enough skill set, like and knowledge that I know I can always make money some way, shape, or form um, with my business.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a pretty great feeling.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And most people don't have that.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: If they were to be laid off, they'd be in uh a really negative place.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so if we can gear this conversation into a little bit more like passive income type specifics, so Can we just like kick it all the way back to the basics?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how would you define passive income?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: In my opinion, a passive income product or stream of revenue in your business is something that is leveraged.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something where you have created something, like whatever format that is, that can be sold again and again without you having to um customize, add, you know, do any one-to-one element there.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a leveraged form of offer.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that is what a passive income product is.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so in our kind of like digital marketing speak, you know, that could look like, like Mariah was mentioning in terms of, okay, there's this idea of like the checklist or the template or some kind of PDF thing.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very common, maybe more basic like passive income product.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it could also look like I like I group, you know, things like a course or a membership or some sort of group coaching program into this arena because for let's take courses, for example, you are creating the content once and then selling it over and over again, even if you're doing, say, monthly coaching calls or there's some community aspect to it or support or whatever that looks like.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's where the piece of like this isn't truly passive starts to come in, because you might be complementing your passive income product with like non-passive support.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a that's okay.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's that that's often where the magic happens.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and where you can charge a higher price point for something is when it includes things like that.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I would define passive income products.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, when we say it's not truly passive, there's sort of two reasons for that.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: One is that you may have elements of the delivery that aren't truly passive.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mentioned, if you let's say, for instance, with my one of my programs, Course Creator School, I do a monthly coaching call.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is not passive.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's me showing up every single month for my students.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: I also have a lead coach in there who's doing QA every single week, like in our Facebook group.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's not passive.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, but but the curriculum, the tools, the templates, all of that stuff that I built out, I built it out once and it has served now over 600 students, right?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I had to reteach that stuff every time.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it's also not passive in when you think about the marketing, right?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because to Mariah's point, it's not that I'm putting it up, have a great SEO strategy and get to sit back and drink my ties on the beach and have the sales flow in.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: I am consistently working at marketing strategies to get customers to buy my passive income products.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Some of those marketing strategies you could say are more passive than others.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Me posting on Instagram every day, that ain't passive.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's not feeling passive.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is feeling like some work.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Me like putting a certain amount of budget toward paid ads that then flow into a more automated email funnel.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that feels more passive.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is on the spectrum of marketing strategies, that would be a more passive marketing strategy.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge believer in having both, like in diversifying my marketing strategy, not putting all of my eggs into one basket.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I do all of those things.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's certainly not passive.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working at marketing all the time in my as a as a CEO and founder of my business, but I'm doing it with great balance, you know, like I am never going to be someone who works 40, 50, 60 hours a week on my business.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's not why I built it.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: I did not want a nine to five job.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I have a very happy kind of 25 hours a week life uh where I work on my business, and that feels good to me for right now, and that's where I'm at.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, so so that's what that can look like.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in terms of my beginning, wait, hold on.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I just yeah, I want to pull this out.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you said is fucking genius, and I don't think anybody's ever said it before.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Consider the product passive, the marketing is not.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a differentiation that like I literally have never fucking heard that before of like passive income.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the income from the product is passive.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: You marketing that even with ads, it is a more passive form.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: You still have to pay attention to click-through rate to conversion rate.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: What about the graphics?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: What about the text?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yes, but compared to creating Instagram reels three times a fucking week, yes, it is a little bit more passive.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're only tweaking the ads every two to three weeks.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that is such a good differentiation of just like, yo, create as many passive income products that you want, products, but how how you gonna market that shit?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was genius.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to, I don't know, stand up on the soapbox and regurgitate what you said.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, thank you.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, look out for it in upcoming reel.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Turn that into something.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: If that landed with you two, I'm sure it's gonna land uh with my audience too.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, okay, good.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that differentiation was important and and landed for you.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I look back at the first, okay, so truth.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: When I first thought about teaching bloggers something, I thought it was gonna be an ebook.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then I landed on someone like teaching about online courses or talking about online courses and stuff.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, okay, like this is I was gonna do as an ebook for like$19 or something.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that actually ended up becoming my first online course, which I still only sold for$79.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um I began almost right away with the course style of things.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what I think is if someone was well, and I do this all the time, if someone's coming to me to start this kind of thing in their business, I do always say start with the kind of$500 plus course as your first foray into like passive products and digital products, because it is so challenging to make a good chunk of money from something that costs less than like a hundred bucks, say.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you're thinking to yourself, ooh, I'm gonna make this like$47 digital pack of things that's gonna be my ticket to like a million-dollar business, you better have a giant audience or a giant marketing budget because the volume of sales that you are gonna need at$47 is huge.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you let's say launch a course that's$500, well, you can, you know, get 10 founding students in that course.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have your 5K first launch.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's an amazing first step.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna build it out in real time with those 10 founding students.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna validate it, we're gonna make sure it's getting results.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then we can relaunch that, then we can turn this into something bigger and keep honing in on it and you know, turning this into like, say, a more signature kind of program for your business that can become something where you make 10K a month, 30K a month, maybe you have a six-figure launch.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like those are all in the realm of possibility with time and effort.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's important to start there and not necessarily start with these like low-ticket digital products that we think are going to be these like really easy switch it on, make a million buck overnight type things.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it does.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you're pointing out, I think, like a big sales secret, which is to make a sale, you really have to take someone through the same process.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like what I have found is high-ticket sales, I have to put about as much energy into that as I do something that's$47.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: You still have to take someone through that journey of no like trust.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's still you can't avoid it.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, there is something about like an impulse by price tag, but your point is true.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: You still, if you're at a low price point, you have to take people through the sales process at a higher volume.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that means like you need to have a Simon Cynic sized audience if you really profit off that.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really appreciate that advice of like start at that.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, this was a question I had.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of price point does it make sense to start at?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: So start at that around$500 price, get the 10 core members.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's much more one problem I've seen people have is they'll have a great launch and they'll get a ton of people to buy their product and then they can't deliver because it's way too overwhelming.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I love what you're saying about like starting at that higher price point helps you scale back the initial delivery, which helps you refine, work out the problems and the kinks, and then take it to the next level, whatever that looks like.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really like sage advice.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like if you want to have fun with those lower ticket things down the road, layer them on later.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like profit early with that, I don't know if you call it mid-range kind of online course.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or even if you want to do a small group coaching program that's even higher ticket than that, maybe it's like 2K or something, do that first and go backwards.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I heard someone use the analogy once of um, I think it's Tesla.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like they, when they first launched the first Teslas, they were hugely expensive.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just so that the revenue was coming in the door where they could then produce a more like quote unquote mass market Tesla.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it came eventually they released lower cost Teslas.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same idea.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want to start higher, build up the revenue coming into your business, and then sure, have fun layering in those other lower ticket offers uh down the line.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I will also tell you like if you're thinking about running ads to low-ticket offers because you think that is a is some sort of shortcut, it is not.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is there's a lot of work involved in that, and you can burn money doing that.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it is, yeah, to me, that's just not the best first or even third step.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's like something you layer in way later.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I'm grateful that you're sharing this advice because honestly, I haven't heard this in the realm of passive income.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that I've literally ever heard anybody be like, do not create that fucking$47 thing that you want to make.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, give me something bigger at first.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have not heard that advice.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually like test the market, see if people want to buy the$19 thing.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then once you have the$19 thing, resell them your$47 thing.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: And after your$47 thing, have them buy your$500 thing.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like at that point, does that person that bought that$19 thing still have the same problem in which you're just creating another solution for?
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, maybe not.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: And also you're you're doing two things like you're training people to expect under$50 products from you.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you might even be devaluing your expertise, like when you go and sell something for$27 that actually it has, you know, five years of your experience and like learned skills that you're shoving into this like nothing price point.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's just it's not, I've seen too many people get stuck in this loop of trying to sell super low price things in their early stage and they just can't figure out how to make real money.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then so they never get to where they want to go to because they're just yeah, stuck in that place.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do want to give uh an example from my business that I'm kind of just exploring right now, is so I've been in business for for over seven years and like exploring SEO when I have my higher ticket packages done for you, blah, blah, blah.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: I also have a DIY SEO course that I think the price point, it's like 397 walks people through that stuff.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I have messed around with like lower price guides, right?
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have a$67 guide, a blah, blah, blah, and a blah, blah, blah.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I created all of those lower ticket because like I thought that I had to instead of seeing really where like my people were actually having problems and being honest with myself about where the fuck they were having problems.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: I created some of those with like the idea of this would be fun for me to create.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think people have this issue.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna create a low thing.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't bring me in consistent like the guides themselves, don't really bring me in consistent income like I see everybody showing about on fucking Instagram.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: But what I am realizing right now, so like in my SEO strategy intensive, and am I done for you?
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest pieces that people fucking go ape shit over is the SEO keyword list.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like they people fucking.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: I could have told you before you even said it, I was like, I know what they're gonna like because I know what I would want from you, and it's that it's that.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very funny because now I'm sitting here and I'm like, okay, like the the smallest amount that you can pay me in order to create an SEO keyword research list specifically for your business, your goals, and your content, 1444 at this moment.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm sitting there and I'm just like, wait, but this is also my favorite part of playing around.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's something about playing around with the ideas of unlimited possibilities and having data to back it up.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is the piece of each package where my clients are like, oh fuck, I didn't realize how many gaps there were in the market.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, duh, like, what do you mean?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: So then I was sitting here and like this weekend, or a couple, maybe it was last week, I was sitting there and it just dropped in.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm I want to test out Etsy.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: I have been wanting to test out SEO and playing around with selling digital products on Etsy for probably a couple weeks now.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, so I'm gonna create a digital art print, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got into a rabbit hole and I'm like, I'm fucking overwhelmed.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what if we just kick it back to like what I actually fucking do?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's let's not reinvent the wheel here.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, okay, so what can I do that isn't another guide that can help people?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my god, they love SEO keyword lists.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: So then I'm doing research and I'm like, there are some SEO keyword lists on Etsy only for people on Etsy.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: There is nobody out there creating SEO keyword research lists for service providers.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, oh fuck, okay, I'm gonna play around with this.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started sending some things on Instagram, posted some stories.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yo, if you're a web designer or a developer, DM me.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm creating like a generic list of SEO keywords, blah, blah, blah, it's gonna have.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: I started creating the list, got into a rabbit hole.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I only spent 20 minutes, it was three hours, came out of my office, my boyfriend's like, are you okay?
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Who am I?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know who I am.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but this is a good sign that I got so stuck in the rabbit hole.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, I ended up creating this list, literally sold fucking six of them in 24 hours just from people on my email list from literally putting this together and putting it up on Etsy.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's only one industry.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Can I understand that?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just get one point of clarification.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: Was this an SEO keywords list for web developers?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or sorry, web web designers and developers.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: What okay, specifically only for that industry?
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you could create keyword lists for different service providers.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: You might end up having like 15 different industries, say.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I don't know, how often would you have to update it?
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: Once every 12 months or something.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing that I thought of.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yo, I'm gonna put the data in there and I'm gonna make a list.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I'm putting the data in there so you guys can understand what usually more keywords are competitive.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Note this data changes every single day, let alone month.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is only from the USA database.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm only showing it to you so that you can make decisions.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: Technically, I don't ever have to change this.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, holy fuck, but my point is not to toot my own horn here, even though like I think I am a genius this week.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: I literally am at like genius level, very fucking proud of myself.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying this that it took me seven years, and I think I've been focusing specifically on SEO for like four to five of fucking around with SEO packages, clients, strategy sessions.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say failed passive income products, but like nothing that blew the roof off of anything.
• 1:01:23
  unknown: Right.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like it took me that long in order to actually sit and be honest with myself about what I was creating and what is the most most helpful.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had somebody reach out, hey, can I do a pre-sale for my client?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: She's in the e-commerce industry, she'd love an SEO keyword for necklaces.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, cool, send me money and you can do a pre-sale.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have the list created next week.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just like, what the fuck?
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like it's that example of like when you're first getting and started in business, you might not come upon like the idea for a very long time.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what actually is really helpful is when you get in there and you're offering services to people.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, a thousand percent.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: Having conversations with people, what do you need help with?
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you stuck?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because that is that's a game changer.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just see so many people creating like passive income products without doing any market research.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's it's it's a huge problem because there's people out there being like, you can create whatever you want.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can create whatever you want, but you also fucking need people to buy it.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am I'm a huge believer in the need to do one-to-one services, coaching, whatever that looks like, before creating the course or the passive income product or whatever it is that you're doing, because it's a very small, small minority of people that can go from being it's usually um like being a content creator to a someone who sells digital products.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm thinking of like, you know, someone who let's say has a blog or um social media presence around like organizing, and then they come up and come out with like some kind of digital product to do with organizing and it's successful.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very small percentage of people who are successful with courses or passive income products.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the only reason why typically it's successful is because that entrepreneur has been a content creator for like three years, four years, five years, or more before launching the product.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they had tried it to start the business with a little organizational, I don't know, set of friggin' uh pantry labels or something, like that never would have like turned into anything.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's always people who do one-to-one services or coaching packages, whatever that looks like, and then go and shift into a one-to-many offer.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: They make the shift so much more successfully and quickly and profitably because they know exactly the problem that they can help people solve and that people want solved because they have worked with clients before.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: So to your point, Mariah, you with okay, yeah, maybe it took four or five years for you to like figure that thing out, but like it was all of that working with clients that you then saw the theme come out of like, ooh, they go wild for these lists and this lit, that's the that's the magic, and that's the thing that I need to somehow figure out in your case, like how to productize.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna buy it.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: Get tell me when you uh launch the list for online course creators.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually I'm gonna pick your brain about that after.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna waste the time here, but I am gonna pick your brain because I there's just so many, there's just so many fucking gaps in the market.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so many people want to get better at their SEO, but aren't quite ready, let's say, to maybe like do a full overhaul or invest at your higher ticket kind of thing.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and it might be like, oh, let me dip the toes in and do some of it DIY with this list.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: The cool thing is they'll probably start seeing some results, and then they'll think to themselves, oh damn, I should really get the full like package here and actually do my SEO properly because even just this small thing started to work.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: What I really like about it, Mariah, is you're using a new platform in a unique way.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have I shared the Pornhub story that I heard about the other day on the book.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, not on the podcast.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_02: You shared it with me though.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now you have to share it.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been interested in this idea of like how could we use platforms in a different way and in a new way, in a unique way that feels fun.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I heard this story.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I taught English in Taiwan a long time ago, and there's this like private school industry.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people, like kids go to school.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: During the day, and then they go to private school at night and study like specific things like English or math.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so this man wanted to start a private school in Taiwan, and he had his own private school, his own like um list of people, a successful business.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then one of his teachers like stole his class list and opened a school downstairs.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so he like lost his whole customer base in one night.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he really, it was at the beginning of COVID too, so like schools were shutting down.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: He wanted to get online.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_02: So he was looking at like how to market himself as like an online teacher and sell his online courses.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: He taught like math, like high-level math for high school and college kids.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: So what he did was he started posting math tutorials on Pornhub because he knew that his target audience was on Pornhub, and he knew that his target audience was high school and college men.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so he literally, if you go to Pornhub and he uses SEO keywords in a smart way to where it's like kind of like it would pop up in search results, but it's always like a funny math joke or something.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so he is like now one of the most popular creators on Pornhub, and he has built this multi-million dollar online teaching industry because people see him, like his teaching style, go to his website, buy the product.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: Stop it.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought it was so creative.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is so creative.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's also like the master example of know exactly who your ideal customer is and go to them.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: Figure out where they are now and put yourself in front of them.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: And make a product that solves their problem.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think it's like chicken and the egg, like, well, I need to be inspired by it, and it's my creative vision, but also it needs to be a real problem that people have and what where should you start?
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think our conversation is telling me start by finding out where all the problems are and then which one lights you up.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably a sign to go in that direction.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to be solving a real problem for your people where they are.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a bit of meeting them where they are that I think is so beautiful about that story and just being willing to try.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: I never would have thought I could put a math tutorial up on Pornhub, but like use the platforms in unique ways.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: Why not?
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: Have some fun with it.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: You never know, you know, like what might be the unique thing that puts it over the top.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love that story.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: I will definitely be sharing it.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some later date.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: We can link to it so we can actually.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it's great, it's beautiful.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I loved Mariah.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing your story because I feel like you're like a step farther than me when it comes to you actually have some courses created and you already have some experience.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I was hoping we could talk about with you, Gemma, is kind of what are you thinking as we're looking forward and you know, whatever's going on bigger picture political-wise.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like there's kind of a shift in the online coursing course teaching world.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, there's just always going to be trends and things shifting and changing.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's on your vision board?
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you feeling like is the sweet spot of solving a problem for people right now, and like is something you want to create in the future?
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are trends and shifts, and you know, as the world evolves, like so does our little bubble within it.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: However, if you at the core are staying focused on, to your point earlier, of solving a really clear problem that people want to solve and staying focused on ensuring that you are delivering results for your students.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you let those two things continue to guide you, you will be able to, you know, withstand any change in trend because that is what people pay for.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're wanting to pay, like they will continue to pay for help in solving their problems.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you having proof that your solution works with case studies and testimonials and all of those things will continue, continue to sell your offer, whether you're selling it on Instagram, TikTok, through a podcast, through YouTube, through email marketing, none of that matters through Pornhub.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Never thought I'd say that.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, none of that matters because you have it total clarity and focus on those things.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't really give this like you know, prescriptive box of like, I see it being courses that are priced between, you know, 500 and 1500 that have a mix of like self-study curriculum and some group coaching support, though that is the perfect model.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because that might not, although that's kind of my model, that might not be the perfect model for your industry.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_01: That might not be the best way that your people are going to solve that problem.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think just sometimes shutting out the noise and focusing in on those two things.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: How can you make your problem clearer?
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: How can you make your solution the best one out there and articulate it very clearly with great messaging and positioning?
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then how can you rack up a crap ton of results?
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because nothing will sell your offer better than a ton of word of mouth marketing and clear results.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and like let's put a little focus on the fucking word of mouth because we're all like digital, digital.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm over here, SEO, SEO.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course that shit works, but it's like, what's the quickest way to sell shit?
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_00: By or or like what is marketing?
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's literally telling people what you do and like how you help them.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like the quickest way to do that, the quickest way to market is word of mouth.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally how I sold this fucking these SEO keyword lists.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that I like launched them on Instagram and I was like peep boop boop boop boop.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, nah, what's up, people?
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm selling this thing.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just told people what I was doing, and it was a clear thing.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I do have a a quick question.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: How do you stop yourself from getting overwhelmed?
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like when I'm thinking when I question quick question here, but okay, hold on.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can I can fine-tune here and I can give an example.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like if I'm planning a digital product, maybe it's like that first$500 course.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do I know what to keep in and what to not keep in for the first edition?
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like how much is enough, but how much is kind of too much?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is there like a questionnaire three that I could ask myself in order to be like, include this this time, don't include that this time?
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just so people can get out of analysis paralysis.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking of Shay here of like where it comes to like if she was to create some kind of course about like, let's say sales, it's like she could probably say in this, well, I want to teach them this and this and this, and they got to know this.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, bitch, how do we get something fucking out there that people can test?
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, because here's the first thing to remember it is not about the volume of stuff in your offer that allows you to put a higher price tag on it.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is the value of the problem you are solving and the transformation you're providing for that person.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like the first thing is to know that you don't have to deliver some 25 list, you know, package of things.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the more that you can strip away, and and this is hard, really hard to do.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: The more you can strip away the things, but provide only what is actually required for them to get the result, the better that product is because you're able to lead that person to the result faster and easier and more effectively.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually a really hard thing to do, to like strip away any extra nuance or fluff that isn't required for them to get the result.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, to your question about like how much needs to be included, I would really think about that question of if I want my result to be that my student knows exactly how to.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm just trying to think of like an SEO example, knows exactly how to publish a website that's going to rank in a certain way or whatever at the end of this course.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is it that they need to know to get that result?
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And don't overteach them other stuff that they don't need to know.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that is like where I would keep my mindset so that it keeps it as focused as possible.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second thing is that this is actually why I recommend doing that first round as like a live round with those founding students, because you at when you go to sell it, you do want to have kind of a map of like, okay, we're gonna have like six weeks together.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is like the content we're gonna cover on those six weeks.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you already know some like, I don't know, templates or tools or things that you're gonna share with them, but you can build it out in real time with those students.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to, you know, get this all built out ahead of time.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you showing up and basically being available to answer their questions as they work through it and as you're teaching it is going to be enough for them to get the results.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Cause often it's just that they need some hand holding and accountability.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if they get stuck, you're able to like pull them through that obstacle.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's not that they need 12 downloads, you know, it's that they need to know that you're gonna be there with them and help them get the result by the end and lean into that in your messaging as opposed to leaning into the 12-point bonus stack or whatever.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because that can come later.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you that I'm at a point now, for example, with Course Creator School, frankly, there are too many bonuses.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I need to strip some away because I've been selling this program for a long time.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've been able to add to it and refine it and do all of those things.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Was any of that there in the founding round?
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not none of it was there in the founding round.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like the bonus was that I was doing this live with you, you know, and it's not like I do that now.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, so yeah, it's just a totally kind of different mindset for that founding round.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully that helps to squash some of the overwhelm of needing the 15 things built out ahead of time.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what it reminds me of is that answer we used to get in like high school or college of like, how long should the paper be?
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the teacher is like, how can you answer the question fully in the least amount of words?
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the same as this.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: How could I solve this problem with the least amount of information dump?
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know I loved your answer about like, and it was so good because I have that voice in my head that's like, maybe the online uh digital course industry is dead and maybe it's too late.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I loved your answer of like, it's not like there's one thing that's dead and there's one thing that's not working.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about solving a problem in real time, 100%.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love that answer.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I don't know why I have this tendency to like story about things and like things are changing and trends are changing, but really there's these fundamentals that like we can always come back to of am I solving a problem, a real problem for a person?
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think really starting there, wow, if we could give any like buddy advice for anything, like could you start with what's the problem my people are having?
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then what's the solution I could provide that I feel lit up about?
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I like what you're saying about the first time around, let it be a beta, let it be a science experiment.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking about one of the favorite courses I've ever took.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually watching replays of her doing it the beta round.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like she just recorded her beta round and then turned that into a course, and I watched it and she didn't know what it was gonna be.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_02: She almost like let it unfold with the students and their questions turned it into something that was so valuable for me.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just sitting here feeling really encouraged of like, there's nothing dead.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't missed the boat on anything, you know.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Really, if I can just strip it back and get back to those fundamentals and allow myself to have some play and some fun with it, like Mariah was saying, like get on a platform, do something unique and creative, but getting back to what's the problem I'm solving, for who, and what's the solution.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I know it sounds basic, but for some reason hearing it from you now in this way is making me feel like there's unlimited possibilities and the world is my oyster, and I don't need to worry about the right or the wrong trend, you know?
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it and it truly is.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the third thing I would add to that is like making sure that your voice, opinions, personality, perspectives are very um loud and aligned with that brand or course and offer that you put out into the world, because you will attract in the right students, the the more you let that come through.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like the less you sound like the robotic plug and play funnel.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the more that you inject your opinions, the easier it is to attract in the right person who wants to learn from you.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Cause like I don't, I know that I am no special unicorn.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_01: There are lots of other people, frankly, much bigger than me, that teach about online courses and the same kind of stuff that I do, but I attract in the students I do because I have certain values or because I see things in a certain way, or I show up with my particular teaching style.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are wanting to sell like courses, especially, like you need to be okay with being visible and showing up, you know, typically I would always say like showing up on video and making sure that people start to see you as that expert or mentor in the space and connect with you in that way.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that will make it much easier for them to be excited to buy into the program because yes, they're buying into the solution, they're also buying into you.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they because they want to hang with you and learn from you and like be in your world.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that's that would be like my little parting advice.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the medicine I needed to hear.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing that.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, piggybacking off of that, if people wanted to learn from you, they wanted to learn how to maybe dip their toes into passive income and stuff like that.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you got going on for people that are interested in that?
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I have two main programs.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_01: One is for the entrepreneur who wants to create their first founding course.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like we talked about that idea of crafting out a great offer and getting, let's say, those 10, 15, 20 founding students in and really getting the ball rolling.
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my program, Course Creator School, is perfect for that.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's really meant for the one-to-one like service provider or coach who's ready to integrate in a one-to-many offering.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the best place to learn about that is actually just GemmaBonhamcarter.com forward slash class.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a free like pre-recorded training that walks you through my methodology.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you'll get a really good sense of what I'm all about and it unlocks an invite into that program.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then my other flagship program is something called the passive project.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it is for experienced course creators.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're someone who already sells an online course or group coaching program and you're ready to like, this is where we get into evergreen funnels and like long-term email marketing and kind of that more next level strategy, uh, that's what that program is all about.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find out more at GemmaBottom Carter.com forward slash passive project.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, or just hit me up on Instagram at Gemma.bottom Carter.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about your business, uh, and I can point you in the right direction of your next best step.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whoop whoop.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna put all of those links in the show notes below.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_00: But before we close this out, we always ask every single human on the podcast, what has been sparking your curiosity lately?
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Could be business, personal, whatever.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, God, what a good question.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_01: What has been sparking my curiosity?
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I've got two.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so one is the real estate investing thing.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh my husband and I bought um two like income properties during COVID.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_01: One is a duplex and one's a triplex.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then just this past summer, purchased our biggest project to date, which is this amazing like heritage brick building in just like a village about 45 minutes outside of Ottawa where we live.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like a yeah, heritage building.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's got commercial on the bottom, and it was totally unused on the upper two floors, and we're turning it into apartments, like really nice long-term rental apartments.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a giant project, it was our biggest purchase, and I feel so scared about it.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_01: But that's definitely where my brain has been a lot lately is figuring that out.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then my other little um, I don't know, side passion thing that's been happening is that we always said before we had kids that we wanted to be the family who like does a couple of different like year abroad type things um while we raise our kids.
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're big travelers, like we've that's always been a big value and and core part of like who we are.
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we've done a lot of traveling with our kids, but always like you know, three-week type things.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we are thinking, oh my god, I can't even believe I'm gonna say it on the podcast because I feel like I haven't even like talked about it with like my family.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we are thinking of the inside scoop here on the Curiously Guided podcast.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, we might move to France for a year.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Holy shit! Yeah, and we're just trying to like figure out how to make that work.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so this time next year, potentially September 2023, we might move to France and put our kids in French school for a year.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Fuck yeah.
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_00: This episode was so good, Gemma.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously, thank you for everything.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna leave the links to everything that Gemma mentioned in the show notes below.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we're ready to close this episode down.
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if you guys enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with somebody that you think would love it.
• 1:25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Screenshot it, share it on social media, tag us in it, let us know if something popped out to you.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Totally DM us, any of us.
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_00: We love connecting with you guys.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, thank you so much for listening and for your support.
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't yet, subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcast provider, and leave us a review so that we can all continue to grow together.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And until next time, remember that you truly do have the power to create whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:25:57
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you in the next episode.