Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Idaho Student Murders: Killer Spotted Returning to Scene?

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Idaho Student Murders: Killer Spotted Returning to Scene? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the wake of the
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Speaker 1: slaughters of four beautiful young students University Idaho. Right now
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Speaker 1: we're wandering has the killer returned to the scene of
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Speaker 1: the crime? I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thanks
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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and series
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Speaker 1: XM one eleven. First of all, take a listen to
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Speaker 1: our sound of Chief James Fry Moscow PD. We have
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Speaker 1: information of a white vehicle that was in the area
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Speaker 1: either during the timeframe of the homicide or around the
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Speaker 1: timeframe and the homicide, and we are just wanting to
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Speaker 1: talk to the individuals who are in that vehicle. They
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Speaker 1: may have some valuable information for us. And we're looking
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Speaker 1: for a two eleven to twenty thirteen and the Elantra.
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Speaker 1: So any assistance you can give us, anybody that owns one,
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Speaker 1: anybody that knows if someone who owns one or may
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Speaker 1: have been driving one, If you could get a hold
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Speaker 1: of us through our tip line or call us directly,
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Speaker 1: we'd appreciate that. Not to apply in two zero eight
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Speaker 1: eight eight three seven one eight zero. Now listen, if
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Speaker 1: we have all heard the chief begging for the owner
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Speaker 1: of the Elantra to come forward, thousands of miles away.
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Speaker 1: Don't you know that the actual owner of that Elantra
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Speaker 1: has also heard it? Why aren't they knocking on the
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Speaker 1: police door? But there's more. Before I go and introduce
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Speaker 1: all of our guests, let me go straight out to
1:43
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah joining US director Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective.
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Speaker 1: You can find him at Cold Case Foundation dot org.
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Speaker 1: I found him on the interview room online. Chris, I
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Speaker 1: want to talk to you specifically about video that you
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Speaker 1: found of a newscast. There's a reporter standing out in
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Speaker 1: the snow and directly behind eleven twenty two King the
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Speaker 1: murder house. You see car similar to the white Elantra
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Speaker 1: going right behind the house. And as you pointed out yesterday,
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Speaker 1: you have to want to be in that location. You've
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Speaker 1: got to know the neighborhood. One way in, one way out.
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Speaker 1: Tell me what you saw on that video that you
2:30
Speaker 1: happen to catch. Well, you know what, Nancy. After talking
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Speaker 1: you know, to your team here on the show, I
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Speaker 1: went back and took a look at some of the
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Speaker 1: early footage from them, you know, news services that were there,
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Speaker 1: and I noticed over the left shoulder of one of
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Speaker 1: the news reporters a what appeared to be a white car,
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Speaker 1: and I sent that into your team and said, can
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Speaker 1: anybody you know take a closer look at this? This
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Speaker 1: doesn't look right. And so that's where we're at right now.
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Speaker 1: I thought it was really into rushing knowing sometimes the
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Speaker 1: behavior side of these individuals, they may return and or
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Speaker 1: could be in that environment. I want to point out
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Speaker 1: Chris McDonough and to everybody on the panel, we all
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Speaker 1: remember Scott Peterson. I can't remember if this is before
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Speaker 1: or after he died his hair blonde. He would go
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Speaker 1: and police had a tracker on his vehicle. He would
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Speaker 1: go back to the San Francisco Bay and look out
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Speaker 1: over the water. What did he think he was going
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Speaker 1: to see Lacy and Connor pop up, because that's where
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Speaker 1: he put their bodies. He would go back and back
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Speaker 1: and back to the scene. Also, if you recall the
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Speaker 1: case of Sydney Sutherland, just a stunning young woman out
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Speaker 1: jogging and she was rammed by this farmer in the
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Speaker 1: area who then molested and murdered her. And he also
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Speaker 1: went back. He even acted like he was helping to
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Speaker 1: search for her. So it's a common phenomenon that I
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Speaker 1: don't understand Cheryl McCall I'm joining me, forensic expert, founder
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Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute at Coldcase Crimes dot org.
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Speaker 1: We've seen it a lot. I've seen it in my
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Speaker 1: own prosecutions. Sure, it's pretty simple to me. They are
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Speaker 1: getting something out of it, some sort of gratification. Like
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Speaker 1: we all know, Arson is love to go back and
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Speaker 1: actually watch the burnie. They love it, Cheryl. I just
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Speaker 1: said that before we started taping. I said, Arsen has
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Speaker 1: loved to do it. And here you are, Sisten et co.
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Speaker 1: Chamber in here, come up with your own stuff. Macallum.
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Speaker 1: They go ahead about Arsen's, but it's true regardless of
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Speaker 1: what it is. Even in a homicide scene. When I
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Speaker 1: get there, one of the first things I do is
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Speaker 1: take pictures of the crowd gathered because I don't know
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Speaker 1: who's in that crowd, but I know later on we're
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Speaker 1: going to go through it one person at a time.
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Speaker 1: You know who else always came to the scene, and
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Speaker 1: I mean almost always. Wayne Wayne Williams for those of
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Speaker 1: you that have been living under a rock in a
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Speaker 1: cave far far away without any our reception. Wayne Williams
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Speaker 1: is credited with many of the Atlanta child murders. Then
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Speaker 1: I would say maybe three or four other charmer Well,
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Speaker 1: they weren't children at this point. They were teens and
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Speaker 1: older were lumped in with him because the ms were
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Speaker 1: the same. But Wayne Williams and murdered, oh gosh, at
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Speaker 1: least a dozen, at least a dozen young people in Atlanta. Jump.
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Speaker 1: I worked on the page. I worked the Wayne Williams
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Speaker 1: page in Atlanta. Yeah, I can need and we actually
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Speaker 1: he was just over the top. I know when we
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Speaker 1: first started to surveil him. We found him coming off
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Speaker 1: the bridge you cam up the hills, that bridge where
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Speaker 1: the dead body was floating under it in the water.
5:47
Speaker 1: That bridge, that's where we're talking about. Yeah, you're right,
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Speaker 1: it was stuck. It was stuck in some reeds. Go ahead.
5:55
Speaker 1: You know, there's another point to all of this, and
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Speaker 1: it is that the Bureau often put microphone on cemmetry.
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Speaker 1: Great to Yeah, go ahead, I want you to tell
6:03
Speaker 1: that story because it's so true. Well about Wayne Williams.
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Speaker 1: We went to his house, but we didn't put him
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Speaker 1: under prominence for veillance. And that night we learned later
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Speaker 1: that there boxes and boxes of material that we're taken
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Speaker 1: from the house and we never found those, he would
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Speaker 1: go back to the scene. And this is really interesting, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: you and I've talked about this before. Not only want
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Speaker 1: to go back to the scene where he would dump
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Speaker 1: a dead body. He was somewhat of a media stringer.
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Speaker 1: In other words, he would show up at events like
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Speaker 1: a car crash and arson whatever and take video of
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Speaker 1: it and then sell it to the news stations, to
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Speaker 1: the big stations and now, oh, there's a movie about
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Speaker 1: that night Night Watcher or something like that. There's a
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Speaker 1: movie about that. Thank you a professional opinion, Doctor Prea Banerjee,
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Speaker 1: Yes there is. Guys, you're hearing doctor Prea Banerjee, Board
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Speaker 1: certified forensic pathologist. You can find her an anchor forensic
6:55
Speaker 1: pathology dot com. You were also hearing Delle Carson, high
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Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of Jacksonville but also former FBI agent,
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Speaker 1: author of arrest Proof Yourself at delcarsonlaw dot com. So
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Speaker 1: my point is he was a stringer and he would
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Speaker 1: be at the seat of the crime. He gat there
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Speaker 1: sometimes before the police did, and claim he heard it
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Speaker 1: on CB radio on the police band radio. So it's
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Speaker 1: not unusual, is that, Cheryl jumping in, go ahead, I
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Speaker 1: was gonna say, he had an actual press pass. And
7:26
Speaker 1: you got to remember this was seventy nine to eighty one.
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Speaker 1: There was no social media, so there was no better
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Speaker 1: way for him to get to an understanding of what
7:35
Speaker 1: the police knew and when they knew it because he
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Speaker 1: was watching where they were searching. He was asking them
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Speaker 1: questions because he was quote a reporter. Yeah, and Nancy,
7:44
Speaker 1: you speaking Brandt? Are he finally hearing from IRV Brandt
7:49
Speaker 1: us Marshall Service. Now listen International Investigations. Also d o
7:54
Speaker 1: J also Solo Shot author that's coming out in January
7:59
Speaker 1: on Amazon. Also author of Flying Solo on Amazon. Right now,
8:05
Speaker 1: jump in earth. Well, I was gonna say something about
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Speaker 1: go back to the car the white alentre that the
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Speaker 1: chief of police was asking for more leads, and it
8:16
Speaker 1: occurred to me that they must have exhausted almost all
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Speaker 1: their leads. Like you were saying before, if you had one,
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Speaker 1: you would call in, if your neighbor would call in
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Speaker 1: on you. So they must have been inundated. Oh gosh. Yes,
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Speaker 1: they're saying they've got a fleet of analysts trying to
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Speaker 1: wade through these leads. But you know what, I'm also
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Speaker 1: curious about your right or brand, Chris mcdonnaugh. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I looked at the video that you identified and I
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Speaker 1: see the car and it's going kind of fast. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: down the hill on a decline right behind the murder house.
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Speaker 1: Tell me, and I really enjoyed your drive through. Well,
8:53
Speaker 1: I don't know if enjoyed is the right word, but
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Speaker 1: it was in depth. For those of you that haven't
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Speaker 1: looked at the Interview Room, you can find it. I
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Speaker 1: googled it and I found I put in the Interview Room, Idaho,
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Speaker 1: And there's a series of them, but they're all great,
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Speaker 1: but this one really is fascinating because he gets in
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Speaker 1: a car going very slowly, and he drives all the
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Speaker 1: way through Moscow, turns left at the gas station, and
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Speaker 1: takes you all the way up to eleven twenty two
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Speaker 1: King where the four murders happened, and gives you basically
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Speaker 1: a tour very slowly. And typically I hate anything that's slow, hate,
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Speaker 1: but you have to have that for this. Just like
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Speaker 1: when you analyze the crime scene, you cannot rush it.
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Speaker 1: It may take you days or weeks to analyze that
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Speaker 1: crime scene, but you don't want to miss a thing.
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Speaker 1: And he goes really slowly and points out, well, here's
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Speaker 1: a gas station. They may have video, and then they
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Speaker 1: go up the hill and you drive through and you
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Speaker 1: really see the murder scene and everything around it. So,
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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnough, what is that decline where we see the
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Speaker 1: white look like a two door white look very much
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Speaker 1: like an a Lantra. But that's it. Where's that decline?
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Speaker 1: It's got to be right, it's right behind the house. Now.
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Speaker 1: What also is interesting on Nancy is the idea that
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Speaker 1: I think every one of us know on this call,
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Speaker 1: the minut ship details is really what puts some of
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Speaker 1: the pieces, the bigger pieces of these puzzles together. And
10:32
Speaker 1: when I saw that car go by, I realized, you know,
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Speaker 1: I had not driven on that side. It's the other
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Speaker 1: side of uh, you know, the call de Sac area,
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Speaker 1: so there's there is another access road. But then I
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Speaker 1: thought to my shelf, okay, you know, trying to put
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Speaker 1: myself in the mind of the of the offender, what
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Speaker 1: was he or she seeing? And that was also a
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Speaker 1: really good spot to sit because you have a direct shot,
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Speaker 1: you know, visually into that home, and that could also
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Speaker 1: have set a fantasy to where that individual now takes
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Speaker 1: it a little bit closer and maybe that cinder block
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Speaker 1: comes into play later on down through the process of
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Speaker 1: building into this play in this horrific crime Time stories
11:32
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Another question I have, Chris, So, but
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Speaker 1: we see the white two door speeding down right behind
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Speaker 1: the house the murder scene. As you pointed out earlier,
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Speaker 1: there's only one way in, one way out, and you've
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Speaker 1: got to want to find this spot right and that
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Speaker 1: snow and that freezing weather speeding down that decline. I
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Speaker 1: found that really interesting. It's video like that. I believe
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Speaker 1: that's going to crack this case. And another thing, Chris McDonough,
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Speaker 1: everybody jump in on this. Here's an example. Remember Robert
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Speaker 1: blake May he rot in hell. There's no doubt in
12:20
Speaker 1: my mind he had someone murder his What No, there's
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Speaker 1: no doubt in my mind that he murdered Bonnie Bakeley Blakeley,
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Speaker 1: his then wife. The murder weapon was like what Cheryl
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Speaker 1: block away and a dumpster because he was locked in.
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Speaker 1: He was wedded to that location. They had gone to
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Speaker 1: dinner at Vitella's Italian restaurant. He left her in the
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Speaker 1: car on this back alley, although he always parked in
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Speaker 1: front of the restaurant, always his favorite restaurant, but not
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Speaker 1: that night. He parked behind it in a back alley.
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Speaker 1: So he takes his wife to his car, according to him,
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Speaker 1: and goes, oh, my goodness, I left my gun in
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Speaker 1: the restaurants. The busboy that cleaned the table, nobody found
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Speaker 1: a gun in there. He goes back in, sits down,
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Speaker 1: has a glass of water, and low and behold. According
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Speaker 1: to him, in those few moments and that little window
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Speaker 1: of time, his wife gets shot in the car and
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Speaker 1: they find the gun and a dumpster like a block away.
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Speaker 1: Why because he couldn't leave the scene. He could just
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Speaker 1: drive away. He had to come in with this charade
13:24
Speaker 1: pretending he was having a glass of water. He could
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Speaker 1: not leave to dump the gun anywhere else. So what
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Speaker 1: I'm saying, Chris, Chris mcdonnough, is that the killer could
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Speaker 1: very well have thrown the weapon out the window, and
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Speaker 1: we know which way the car is going. It's a
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Speaker 1: possibility for sure, and it should always be taken into consideration.
13:44
Speaker 1: They should run that area extensively with you know, metal
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Speaker 1: detectors and that type of stuff to make sure you know,
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Speaker 1: that's that possibility's taken out of the window. I could
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Speaker 1: see it happening. I know a lot of people think
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Speaker 1: that's that does happened. It does. We are also learning
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Speaker 1: at this hour that according to the father of Kayley Gonsalves,
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Speaker 1: we knew her wounds, according to him, were different than
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Speaker 1: the other wounds, But now we're learning more. Takeless in
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Speaker 1: our friend. Morgan Norwood, the father of victim Kayley Gonzolvez,
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Speaker 1: is blasting police, demanding with the killer on the loose,
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Speaker 1: officers release more information to the public. Steve gonsolv that's
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Speaker 1: saying they're just being cowards. There are girls walking around
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Speaker 1: the street right now that deserve to know. He also
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Speaker 1: revealed to Fox News that his daughter suffered big, open wounds,
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Speaker 1: that the killer used a strong weapon. I haven't earned
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Speaker 1: the ability to to grieve the way that I want
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Speaker 1: to grieve. I want to be able to have justice first.
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Speaker 1: The family is now raising money to hire a private investigator.
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Speaker 1: Detectives haven't said who may have been the target, but
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Speaker 1: Gonzalvez says his daughter suffered more gruesome wounds than the
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Speaker 1: other victims. He is describing them as open gouges noll us.
15:12
Speaker 1: Now our friends a crime online. Steve Gonzovia said his
15:16
Speaker 1: daughter's injuries definitely did not match that of her best friend,
15:19
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan's wounds. They may have individually died from the
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Speaker 1: exact same thing, being stabbed, but there are more details
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Speaker 1: they're not even close to matching. The knife slashed open
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Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonzova's liver and lungs, according to her father, Steve,
15:34
Speaker 1: The grieving father paid for a copy of his daughter's
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Speaker 1: death certificate, which included some of the details of her injuries,
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Speaker 1: but he doesn't know whether his daughter or Mogan were
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Speaker 1: the targets. He said, I have my own suspicions. Now,
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Speaker 1: elected coroner maybe, when reached by phone, declined to comment
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Speaker 1: on the information that she disclosed to Gonzavez. I'm very
15:52
Speaker 1: surprised that the elected coroner didn't talk about that too,
15:56
Speaker 1: since she's blabbed about every single aspect of this. It's
16:02
Speaker 1: like a gunball machine. You put in a cord and
16:03
Speaker 1: all of sudden, all of these gunballs start just falling out.
16:07
Speaker 1: There's no screening whatsoever before she'll blurt something out. Everything
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Speaker 1: that's being released could somehow be twisted and used by
16:16
Speaker 1: the killer somehow, some way, or some nut claiming they're
16:21
Speaker 1: the killer and that that will throw the entire investigation off. Course,
16:26
Speaker 1: you just heard our friends at crime Online. Take a
16:28
Speaker 1: listen to more. The father of slain University of Idaho student,
16:31
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonzovs, told Fox News Digital that the victims had big,
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Speaker 1: open gouges that were clearly the work of a sadistic
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Speaker 1: mail and called police cowards for not sharing more with
16:42
Speaker 1: the public. Steve Gonzovas said he asked the coroner, Kathew Maybet,
16:47
Speaker 1: how many times the victims were stabbed? Now, this is
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Speaker 1: what Steve gonzova has claimed, maybe told him. She says, sir,
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Speaker 1: I don't think stabs is the right word. It was
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Speaker 1: like tears, like this was a strong person, not like
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Speaker 1: a stab. She said. These were big, open gouges. She said,
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Speaker 1: it was quick. These weren't something where you were going
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Speaker 1: to be able to call nine one one. They were
17:11
Speaker 1: not going to slowly bleed out. Okay, number one, that
17:15
Speaker 1: is throwing me for a loop. Did you hear what
17:18
Speaker 1: she says to the victim's dad that they were big
17:22
Speaker 1: open gouges, the work of a quote sadistic male. Why
17:27
Speaker 1: number one, why is she man journing all this out?
17:30
Speaker 1: Jumping Karen stark I can't think of anything more horrifics
17:34
Speaker 1: than speaking to the dad of the dictum and describing
17:39
Speaker 1: in detail what the wounds look like. It's stunningly awful
17:44
Speaker 1: I think of that. I don't know what this woman's thinking,
17:48
Speaker 1: this registered nurse slash lawyer that somehow managed to fall
17:52
Speaker 1: up into the coroner's position. Karen Stark you heard her
17:56
Speaker 1: voice SATs on York Psychologists joinings out of Manhattan at
17:59
Speaker 1: karen start dot com, carrying with a see I mean,
18:03
Speaker 1: you know, Cheryl McCollum, Why is this woman continuing to talk?
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Speaker 1: Why would she tell the dad those intimate details of
18:13
Speaker 1: the murder of his daughter, saying no, they're not just stabons,
18:17
Speaker 1: they're big, open galges. They're more like tears inflicted by
18:21
Speaker 1: a quote sadistic mail. Hey, Nancy, aren't allowing her to
18:27
Speaker 1: dig that something worse has happened to his daughter than
18:30
Speaker 1: anyone else. Why does he need that information that doesn't
18:34
Speaker 1: help him? Well, Nancy, let's talk reality. Okay, go geral
18:39
Speaker 1: talk reality a minute. The daddy's gonna find out anyway.
18:43
Speaker 1: And he says it in one of the interviews when
18:45
Speaker 1: he talks about paying for that funeral. He paid for
18:48
Speaker 1: that information. The funeral director knew there were repairs that
18:53
Speaker 1: funeral director had to make. And if she was attacked,
18:56
Speaker 1: like I believe she probably was, around the face, around
18:59
Speaker 1: the throw, around the chest, he already knew that. So
19:03
Speaker 1: by her telling him the truth, I will say this,
19:06
Speaker 1: telling a family the truth is much better than telling
19:10
Speaker 1: them crap like they didn't suffer it was quick. Well,
19:13
Speaker 1: I think they need the truth too, But I disagree
19:17
Speaker 1: with the coroner blabbing. Yeah, yes, that's a big issue.
19:22
Speaker 1: Hold on, guys, you're hearing doctor Pria Banerjee, Board certified
19:25
Speaker 1: forensic pathologist at Anchor Forensic Pathology dot com. Jump in,
19:29
Speaker 1: doctor Pria. Yeah, Like, first of all, I've done over
19:32
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty homicides. I speak to families, but
19:35
Speaker 1: you have to be very judicious about what you say,
19:39
Speaker 1: you know. I think it's a very fine line. You
19:41
Speaker 1: can comment that there were severe wounds and they bled
19:46
Speaker 1: out quickly, you know, without making it more I don't know,
19:51
Speaker 1: horrifically descriptive. I do agree that they the funeral director
19:56
Speaker 1: would have known, but I don't think it's appropriate, Like
19:59
Speaker 1: they're not going to show a wounded body to the
20:02
Speaker 1: dad with the gash. You know, doctor Preya, I just
20:04
Speaker 1: got to stop you one minute, because this is giving
20:07
Speaker 1: me horrible flashbacks about my fiancee's murder. He was shot
20:11
Speaker 1: five odd times leaving the work side. He was on
20:15
Speaker 1: a construction job at lunch time to bring everybody back
20:19
Speaker 1: soft drinks in a very remote area. Oh my god.
20:21
Speaker 1: And I always knew that he was shot five times,
20:25
Speaker 1: just like killing Gonsalus's dad knows that she was stabbed.
20:30
Speaker 1: But I don't know, Cheryl. I hear what you're saying,
20:34
Speaker 1: but I don't know about this telling the but telling
20:38
Speaker 1: the dad that she's ripped open and open gouges. It's
20:43
Speaker 1: just still it's excessive. It's excessive and unnecessary, and it
20:49
Speaker 1: really creates a very vivid picture. What does that mean,
20:53
Speaker 1: doctor Preya, that her liver and lungs were stabbed? What
20:57
Speaker 1: does that tell you about the wound specific Let me
21:00
Speaker 1: draw on your medical expertise. Yeah, so a stab wound
21:03
Speaker 1: is deeper than it is long, and so you're going
21:08
Speaker 1: deep into the body in very blood rich organs. So
21:13
Speaker 1: they're going to bleed a lot and quickly, so you
21:17
Speaker 1: know that it's not instantaneous, but it's quick because all
21:20
Speaker 1: that blood's gonna collect in the body and possibly drain out.
21:24
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a bloody knife. So that's important for
21:27
Speaker 1: blood spatter, as we talked about earlier. And so it's
21:31
Speaker 1: not it's a very up close and personal attack, that's
21:36
Speaker 1: the thing. It's a lot of anger hate. Stabbing is not,
21:39
Speaker 1: you know, distant. You have to be close to the
21:42
Speaker 1: person to do What does that mean medically, forensically that
21:46
Speaker 1: kieling On Salvas was stabbed in the liver? What does
21:50
Speaker 1: that mean about the depth of the stab wounds? Yeah,
21:54
Speaker 1: I mean they're hitting major organs. They know that if
21:57
Speaker 1: I stab her here, this is going to be a stop.
22:00
Speaker 1: How deep do you have to stab on someone to
22:02
Speaker 1: hit their liver? Mean, they were thin people, but at
22:05
Speaker 1: least a few inches so these were okay. And Jackie
22:09
Speaker 1: is furiously waiving a note at me again, it's like
22:13
Speaker 1: we're a NASCAR. She's saying, he paid for the autopsy report.
22:18
Speaker 1: I thought he paid for the death certificate and the
22:21
Speaker 1: practice release an autopsy report in my old office for
22:25
Speaker 1: an open homicide. No, you do not. That's why I
22:27
Speaker 1: was curious, Dave mac did he get a copy of
22:33
Speaker 1: the death certificate or the autopsy. I believe that he
22:36
Speaker 1: is mistaken in his wording that he got a copy
22:39
Speaker 1: of the death certificate and then he killed conversation. Okay,
22:43
Speaker 1: the death certificate is different from the autopsy, very very different,
22:46
Speaker 1: explaining doctor Preya. Yeah, I mean the death certificate is
22:50
Speaker 1: a one page sheet with loss of lines. But basically
22:53
Speaker 1: it has a cause of death in the manner of death,
22:55
Speaker 1: which is homicide. That's it. It doesn't go into the
22:58
Speaker 1: description number. I mean, the way she said it, this woman,
23:03
Speaker 1: But you know, Cheryl McCallum, back to what you said,
23:06
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying you're wrong. At the time of
23:10
Speaker 1: my fiance's murder, I was so numb. It's actually like
23:14
Speaker 1: a horrible blur, a horrible I have just vague recollections
23:19
Speaker 1: of this moment. In that moment, it's very very vague
23:24
Speaker 1: in my mind. It was just blinded by like pain, pain,
23:28
Speaker 1: That's what I remember. But if the dad goes to
23:32
Speaker 1: the medical examiner and says, tell me the truth, spare
23:38
Speaker 1: no detail. If he did that, you know that I
23:42
Speaker 1: can understand her talking to him. Hey, I want to
23:44
Speaker 1: make two points real quick. Number One, if you listen
23:48
Speaker 1: to that daddy, he's telling you about what he had
23:53
Speaker 1: to go through at the funeral pallor. And I'm telling you,
23:56
Speaker 1: if that director had to give them in nation like
24:01
Speaker 1: we need a high collar, he knows no ready. Yeah,
24:04
Speaker 1: and Nancy, you and I remember a detective that told
24:08
Speaker 1: the family how quick the homicide was, that their loved
24:11
Speaker 1: one didn't suffer. And then when you're in court, you're
24:14
Speaker 1: describing exactly what happened and how long that chile stayed alive.
24:19
Speaker 1: You have no more, Cheryl, for all the good memories,
24:23
Speaker 1: but you have to do it happened, It happened. And
24:27
Speaker 1: I asked my detective please remove the family from the
24:31
Speaker 1: courtroom while I questioned the medical examiner. Did h WL know?
24:38
Speaker 1: He didn't. And I d into the medical examiner and
24:42
Speaker 1: I'm telling the jury this happened, and this happened, and
24:45
Speaker 1: this happened, and he did it and yeah, and the
24:48
Speaker 1: family broke down, cried, and I turned around and there
24:51
Speaker 1: they were. Thanks Ernest, Yes, I remember it. Thank you,
24:55
Speaker 1: Cheryl for that happy memory. But they should have been
24:57
Speaker 1: told the truth. Yes, if they had asked me, I
25:00
Speaker 1: would have told them. If they had asked me point blank,
25:04
Speaker 1: I would tell them. Otherwise, I don't want to make
25:06
Speaker 1: a victims family feel worse than they already feel. Okay,
25:10
Speaker 1: you know what, Wait, I blame you for this, Jackie Howard,
25:13
Speaker 1: I blame you for letting this roller coaster just fly off,
25:18
Speaker 1: fly off the rails. Okay, back to the wounds. I'm
25:21
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what we can learn from gouges
25:29
Speaker 1: versus stab versus stab, wounds versus punctures and that go
25:33
Speaker 1: all the way into the lungs and liver. I can
25:36
Speaker 1: see a stab to the chest going straight to the lungs,
25:39
Speaker 1: but going to the liver, that is a very very
25:42
Speaker 1: deep stab wound. Okay, there's more half jump in deal.
25:46
Speaker 1: It's a military exercise, and I will often thought of
25:49
Speaker 1: the individual head some military training. Oh my goodness, were
25:53
Speaker 1: you in the military. No, so you're just kind of
25:57
Speaker 1: like making this up as you go. No, I'm not
25:59
Speaker 1: making it. I've handled cases where that's been the case. Okay,
26:03
Speaker 1: now now I'm listening. Go ahead. So it's not unusual
26:06
Speaker 1: for them to train in that manner. And you know,
26:09
Speaker 1: there are in the prisons people trained with knives all
26:12
Speaker 1: the time in preparation for this sort of protection and behavior.
26:18
Speaker 1: So it's not unusual to have people in the culture
26:21
Speaker 1: who are really good with knives, and we're gonna find
26:23
Speaker 1: that that's a gear. Much has been made about a
26:27
Speaker 1: group of students that were saying in the background on
26:31
Speaker 1: bodycam footage. There's a lot of online sleuths, Hey, I'm
26:36
Speaker 1: not knocking them. I'm not knocking them at all that
26:39
Speaker 1: have had a lot of questions about that group. Take
26:42
Speaker 1: a listen to this, Hey, Moscow Place Necker. Meanwhile, Inside
26:46
Speaker 1: Edition has obtained this bodycam video taken on the night
26:49
Speaker 1: of the murders a short distance from the house. It's
26:53
Speaker 1: one thing to drink in a department point on con
26:55
Speaker 1: see you, So I think for us to drive by
26:57
Speaker 1: and see you, guys absolutely stumbled down the problem. Three
26:59
Speaker 1: freshmen were cited for underage drinking the time three fifteen am.
27:05
Speaker 1: Police say the murders could have been taking place at
27:08
Speaker 1: that very moment. The three were sited near the Sigma
27:12
Speaker 1: Kai fraternity, where Ethan Shapen and Zana Cronodle attended a party.
27:17
Speaker 1: Look how close it is to the murder house. As
27:19
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, you can look through the Sigma
27:22
Speaker 1: Kai window and look directly into the murder scene. That
27:26
Speaker 1: was our friend Les Trent with Inside Edition. Now listen
27:29
Speaker 1: to Crime Online. Moscow, Idaho police recently released bodycam footage
27:33
Speaker 1: of plane closed officers as they made a stop of
27:35
Speaker 1: three University of Idaho students for suspected underage drinking at
27:39
Speaker 1: about two fifty am November thirteenth, as they were walking
27:42
Speaker 1: across a field off Taylor Avenue in between the Sigma
27:45
Speaker 1: Kai frat house and the girl's rental home. If you
27:48
Speaker 1: look closely, several people can be seen walking in the
27:51
Speaker 1: background of the police bodycam video. It was taken near
27:54
Speaker 1: the King Road home where the students were killed in
27:56
Speaker 1: their sleep on November thirteenth, at about the same time
28:00
Speaker 1: this bodycam video was shot. Police have previously said investigators
28:04
Speaker 1: found nothing of evidentiary value on the bodycam videos, but
28:07
Speaker 1: it remains unclear whether they've identified or interviewed the people
28:11
Speaker 1: walking in the background. So far, police aren't commenting. Chriss
28:14
Speaker 1: mcdonna joining me, host of the interview room. Now, you
28:19
Speaker 1: indicated to me that you believe these people stumbling around
28:23
Speaker 1: did not appear to be coming from the murder Saint
28:26
Speaker 1: eleven twenty two King. Is that correct, Yes, right man?
28:30
Speaker 1: It looks like they're coming from apparently there was a
28:32
Speaker 1: party at that shame, you know, that was just kind
28:35
Speaker 1: of breaking up around zero three hundred, and it looks
28:39
Speaker 1: like they're coming down Taylor Street, passed those officers who
28:44
Speaker 1: were sitting in that apartment complex directly across from the banfield,
28:48
Speaker 1: so the path of entry is directly up into the
28:53
Speaker 1: twenty two the target house. Show that road in front
28:59
Speaker 1: of the house. Those individuals are not They do not
29:03
Speaker 1: appear to be on that particular road coming from the area.
29:06
Speaker 1: Even so, Chris mcdonne, wouldn't you don't you think it
29:10
Speaker 1: would be important to track them down and every line
29:14
Speaker 1: down that was at the particular party you're describing to
29:17
Speaker 1: find out what, if anything they saw that night. Yeah,
29:21
Speaker 1: and that's one hundred percent accurate and Nancy, And but
29:24
Speaker 1: what is really interesting is there's now information floating around
29:30
Speaker 1: if you, you know, isolate the sound on the officers
29:34
Speaker 1: body camera. People are saying that they're hearing things that
29:38
Speaker 1: potentially could be coming from that house that's such as
29:41
Speaker 1: stop it sounds. You know, I was digging into it
29:46
Speaker 1: last night and I've actually asked for the body camera
29:50
Speaker 1: to hear it my shell so I can isolate it.
29:53
Speaker 1: So it's interesting there's something going on behind that that
29:58
Speaker 1: sound that excuse me, the officer's voice there, you can
30:03
Speaker 1: hear other things in the background, the ambient noise, and
30:06
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of like the reporter looking over
30:09
Speaker 1: his shoulder and saying, hey, that looks like a white car.
30:12
Speaker 1: I think there's going to be something behind that audio. Well,
30:15
Speaker 1: you know what, Cheryl McCallum, it may be nothing, but
30:18
Speaker 1: it could absolutely be something, no question about it. And
30:20
Speaker 1: I'll tell you even if something's not there, that's important too.
30:25
Speaker 1: So if we don't hear screams, if we don't see
30:27
Speaker 1: that car, if we don't see anybody fighting, or you know,
30:31
Speaker 1: more kids walking in groups, that's important as well. When
30:34
Speaker 1: you're in any kind of search, what is there and
30:37
Speaker 1: what is not there is both critical information crime stories.
30:55
Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace Dell Carson joining side of Jackson All
31:02
Speaker 1: former FBI agent now lawyer Dale, they've caught to enhance
31:06
Speaker 1: that bodycam footage as well as tried down every single
31:11
Speaker 1: person they can from that party. Anything could count. That's
31:14
Speaker 1: exactly right, and you have real time footage about the
31:18
Speaker 1: time the murder may have taken place. So if you
31:20
Speaker 1: can effectively enhance it with the bureaus certainly has that capability.
31:25
Speaker 1: Then you may be able to see images developed that
31:28
Speaker 1: we wouldn't know the wise know about. They may include
31:30
Speaker 1: the white car, they may include individuals we just don't know.
31:34
Speaker 1: At this point, we now learn that police are doubling
31:38
Speaker 1: back on individuals they had previously cleared. Take a listen
31:44
Speaker 1: to Captain Roger Lanier. They have reinterviewed some of the
31:48
Speaker 1: folks we've interviewed earlier in this investigation to clarify information.
31:53
Speaker 1: Sometimes when new information comes forward, the people that we've
31:59
Speaker 1: spoken to beforehand may have new insight on that. So
32:04
Speaker 1: it does often seem like we're backtracking, but we're really
32:07
Speaker 1: just trying to get the most important details and the
32:11
Speaker 1: best timeline that we can come up with. I find
32:13
Speaker 1: that very significant or brand that they are doubling back
32:19
Speaker 1: on people that they had previously cleared and requestioning them.
32:24
Speaker 1: What if anything, do you make of it? RV. Well, Nancy,
32:28
Speaker 1: with thirty years of investigating cases, I can tell you
32:33
Speaker 1: that the longer than an investigation goes on, the more
32:37
Speaker 1: often you do this, people, potential witnesses, potential suspects will
32:44
Speaker 1: give more information with each interview because some people just
32:48
Speaker 1: actually you know, remember to say things that they didn't
32:52
Speaker 1: they didn't think of before. So it is standard the
32:58
Speaker 1: longer an investigation goes on for investigators to do this.
33:01
Speaker 1: I don't find it out of the ordinary at all. Either.
33:04
Speaker 1: I've got to say, Cheryl, as you well know, we
33:07
Speaker 1: would double back, or at least I would and speak
33:10
Speaker 1: to witnesses over and over and over. And that is
33:14
Speaker 1: not schooling them about what to say on the stand.
33:18
Speaker 1: That's helping me to understand what questions I need to
33:21
Speaker 1: ask and clarify things or things as or have just
33:25
Speaker 1: pointed out we didn't think of to start with. And
33:28
Speaker 1: that's true for the person talking to law enforcement too.
33:31
Speaker 1: If you say to somebody, did you you know what
33:34
Speaker 1: happened that morning, and they just tell you their normal
33:37
Speaker 1: routine and what happened. But if you go back and
33:39
Speaker 1: say did you see anything unusual days leading up to
33:43
Speaker 1: the murders, then they may say, you know, I saw
33:46
Speaker 1: this car driving real slow a lot. So people will
33:49
Speaker 1: remember things and they will answer, and you know this
33:52
Speaker 1: there anybody, Nancy, what you ask them? A lot of
33:56
Speaker 1: times witnesses will not answer what you don't askin they'll say, well,
34:00
Speaker 1: nobody ever asked me about the white van or the
34:02
Speaker 1: orange Mustang, so you have to go back. But there's
34:06
Speaker 1: another side to all of this. Yeah, the other side
34:09
Speaker 1: to all of this is that you're looking for variations
34:13
Speaker 1: in testimony, and it surprises me that they wouldn't take
34:17
Speaker 1: sworn half of davits from each of the people that
34:19
Speaker 1: they removed from possibility so that they can compare those
34:24
Speaker 1: two and see if there's someone who's lying. Oh, we
34:27
Speaker 1: know they did, Dale, and that's a very good point
34:29
Speaker 1: for all we know they did. Another fact that has
34:34
Speaker 1: reared its head. It's a possibility that the girls were
34:37
Speaker 1: adding locks to their individual doors. Take a lessen to
34:41
Speaker 1: less trip inside edition. Did the bedroom doors of the
34:44
Speaker 1: four murdered University of Idaho students have electronic locks like this?
34:49
Speaker 1: A former tenant posted this photo and says all six
34:53
Speaker 1: bedrooms had combination locks. It's believe the students had a
34:57
Speaker 1: lock on their door similar to this. This is a
34:58
Speaker 1: keypad lock. I'm at AAA Architectural Hardware in Manhattan with
35:03
Speaker 1: Richard Brown, who is the owner. Are these things reliable?
35:06
Speaker 1: They're very reliable when they're installed properly and when they're
35:09
Speaker 1: used properly. You pressed the code that was preprogrammed in,
35:13
Speaker 1: pushed down on the lever handle, opened the door, and
35:15
Speaker 1: then closed the door behind you, and it shouldn't be
35:18
Speaker 1: like Okay, let me understand. Joining me is Dave Matt
35:23
Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter and anyone on the
35:27
Speaker 1: panel jump in. You may have covered this on the
35:30
Speaker 1: interview room and Cheryl, you and I were talking about
35:33
Speaker 1: this soft camera. Dave, what do we know about one
35:36
Speaker 1: of the girls in the home. Remember there were six people,
35:41
Speaker 1: five girls that lived in the home. Five one had
35:45
Speaker 1: moved out. Her name was on the lease before that
35:48
Speaker 1: term started. She wasn't there. There were two downstairs, there
35:54
Speaker 1: were two other girls, and then there was of course Ethan.
36:00
Speaker 1: So what do we know about them adding locks to
36:04
Speaker 1: their doors? And did each door have a code, a
36:09
Speaker 1: coded lock? What, if anything do we know? Dave? What
36:12
Speaker 1: we do know each door, each bedroom door had a
36:17
Speaker 1: coded keypad lock. Also, we know that one week before
36:24
Speaker 1: the murders, Zanna Cronodle's dad actually was asked by Zannah
36:28
Speaker 1: to come up and fix the lock on her door.
36:32
Speaker 1: We don't know if he fixed it by installing a
36:35
Speaker 1: new one. They haven't said, but we know that one
36:38
Speaker 1: week before the killing, he was up there working on
36:41
Speaker 1: the lock, which means it wasn't working properly a week
36:46
Speaker 1: before this all happened. We know that oftentimes in situations
36:52
Speaker 1: like this, where you have a number of people coming
36:55
Speaker 1: into a home, that sometimes those codes, the key codes
36:58
Speaker 1: for the different rooms get shared. Somebody who had been
37:01
Speaker 1: there before might have had access to that key code
37:04
Speaker 1: and was able to punch it and go in Wow.
37:07
Speaker 1: We do know, as Dave Mack just pointed out that
37:10
Speaker 1: one of the dads had been there repairing a lock.
37:15
Speaker 1: I believe was that, mister Cronodle, Is that what you said? Yes, ma'am,
37:20
Speaker 1: so Zanna needed her lock fixed. And that's critical. That's critical,
37:23
Speaker 1: Nancy to understand. Go ahead, jump in because I'm trying
37:26
Speaker 1: to figure out if all the bedroom doors had digital locks, right,
37:29
Speaker 1: because obviously what that's going to tell us now is
37:32
Speaker 1: a little bit about you know, the victimology as well
37:36
Speaker 1: as the suspectology. Here, can I tell you where that
37:38
Speaker 1: information came from? We learned that a previous tenant told
37:45
Speaker 1: Fox Digital that he had lived there and he had
37:48
Speaker 1: a coded lock on his door, like all the other bedrooms.
37:51
Speaker 1: That's how we found that out. Go ahead, Well, so
37:54
Speaker 1: what it's going to also indicate for us is, you know,
37:58
Speaker 1: what's the familiarity to that house to the suspect, you know,
38:04
Speaker 1: coming into that house, and you know, to the point
38:08
Speaker 1: a moment ago, did that individual have access to these
38:12
Speaker 1: coaches n F show. That might give us some understanding
38:15
Speaker 1: as to why the two girls potentially on the bottom
38:19
Speaker 1: the suspect did not have access to their rooms. Perhaps
38:22
Speaker 1: if it's a programmable lock, those those numbers can be changed,
38:26
Speaker 1: you know, rapidly. I think this is a big deal,
38:29
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. I know you're hearing Chris mcdonna speaking and
38:32
Speaker 1: what they've actuate. But the fact that each door, according
38:37
Speaker 1: to a former tenant, had a digital coded lock on
38:41
Speaker 1: the door, unless like so many people, they put in one, two,
38:44
Speaker 1: three four or something like that, I mean that changes things, Cheryl.
38:48
Speaker 1: It changes everything, And it also changes what I've said
38:51
Speaker 1: from the beginning that dog was put in a room.
38:55
Speaker 1: Oh are you back on the dog? Yes, what you said,
38:58
Speaker 1: did the killer put a dog in a round? Yes?
39:00
Speaker 1: But Nancy, but there clearly well right now, I know, okay,
39:07
Speaker 1: code door had a code what how in the hey
39:13
Speaker 1: did this person and yes it's a guy know the
39:16
Speaker 1: codes or did he? But that's what I'm trying to say,
39:19
Speaker 1: that French or suspect Pool. Yes, because again, if you've
39:23
Speaker 1: got somebody that knows three bedroom code, I challenge you
39:26
Speaker 1: the next time you join me not to bring up
39:29
Speaker 1: the dog. I'm not saying that it's not significant. I'm
39:32
Speaker 1: just saying you've told me like four times the dog
39:35
Speaker 1: was in a room. I know the dog was in
39:37
Speaker 1: the room. The best witness I ever put on the
39:38
Speaker 1: stand wasn't dog. And I wish Yes, that was a
39:42
Speaker 1: great day in my life. Last thing, guys, for today,
39:45
Speaker 1: I want you to hear I cut one sixty seven
39:47
Speaker 1: Captain Roger Lannier Moscow final Lightest want to add that
39:50
Speaker 1: we do have a lot of information and we are
39:53
Speaker 1: specifically keeping that information safe. We're not releasing specific details
40:00
Speaker 1: because we do not want to compromise this investigation. It's
40:03
Speaker 1: what we must do. We owe that to the families
40:06
Speaker 1: and we owe that to the victims. We want more
40:10
Speaker 1: than just an arrest, we want a conviction. We owe
40:14
Speaker 1: that justice. Susannah Cayley Madison and Ethan I want an
40:20
Speaker 1: arrest and I want a conviction that I can hold
40:22
Speaker 1: on appeal. But are they really keeping evidence close to
40:28
Speaker 1: the vest? Do they have evidence they're keeping close to
40:31
Speaker 1: the vest? We wait as justice and false. Goodbye to