Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Pre-IPO Millions, Federal Conviction & Fighting Back | Michael Castillero on Nightmare Success

Transcript

Pre-IPO Millions, Federal Conviction & Fighting Back | Michael Castillero on Nightmare Success · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:00
They say that we raised 400 million, but the payments in
0:03
the, the redemptions back to the customers and profits and shares
0:08
and everything else, it's well over a billion dollars that we
0:11
paid back to customers. So it's like we paid I think
0:13
anywhere from a billion billion 1 to a billion 2 back to this
0:20
Ponzi scheme. I don't know what Ponzi scheme.
0:22
What Ponzi like scheme triples people's money?
0:24
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:27
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
0:30
Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
0:34
nightmares that set yourself free.
0:36
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:38
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:42
These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
0:45
There's some humor, but hopefully you can come away with
0:47
a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
0:50
prisons you built up in your own mind.
0:53
All right, welcome back nine more success in that listeners.
0:56
This is where you come from. What happens when your worst
0:57
year becomes your reality? How do you adapt, survive,
0:59
overcome, set yourself free, folks, Don't forget, don't
1:04
forget to follow this thing. Follow the show, subscribe to
1:07
it, share it out, like it up, comment.
1:10
It all helps the show and I really appreciate it.
1:12
So who are we talking to today? We're talking to Mike
1:17
Costellero. He is in the middle of the fight
1:22
of his life and I've gotten to know him.
1:24
And and just to give you a little bit of background, a
1:29
little bit little intro here for Mike.
1:31
You know what happens when the story being told about you isn't
1:35
the story you believe is true? When a business you built
1:38
straight path Venture partners, a vision you believed in gets
1:43
defined by prosecutors, headlines and a verdict.
1:47
Mike Castellero set out to do something if you could open the
1:52
door for pre IPO investing, a world usually reserved for the
1:56
ultra wealthy and well connected.
1:58
For thousands of investors, that felt like access, like
2:02
opportunity, like finally getting a seat at the table.
2:05
But success collided with regulators, with scrutiny, and
2:08
ultimately with the federal justice system.
2:11
Now convicted and awaiting sentencing, Costellero finds
2:15
himself in a fight, not just for his future, but for his version
2:19
of what really happened. Today we hear from him, a man in
2:22
the middle of the moment hoping for a pardon and a wait and
2:27
sentencing this month. I can't wait to jump into this
2:31
story. And before we do, I want to
2:33
recognize our show sponsor. You know who likes spending a
2:36
couple of weekends walking car lots looking for a car and then
2:38
you spend four or five hours of dealership to buy a car?
2:41
It's kind of like a root canal appointment.
2:43
Well, there's a better way to take away all that pain and
2:44
hassle getting a car. It's called Auto Plaza Direct
2:47
your personal car concierge just telling the car you want what
2:50
you can pay and they'll go find that car for you.
2:52
They'll negotiate your best price.
2:54
They also offer you warranties and finance.
2:55
It's all full service. Go to autoplazadirect.com to get
2:58
started your personal car concierge, the new hassle
3:01
freeway the car buying experience you deserve Auto
3:03
Plaza direct. Tell them Brent from nightmare
3:05
success since you. You know, we talk a lot about
3:08
the rebuilding after incarceration on this show,
3:10
finding a job, contributing to community, finding purpose.
3:13
But I recently came across a book that reframes the entire
3:15
conversation in a way many haven't considered.
3:18
It's called Second Chance Economics by Nevin Shetty, and
3:21
it just debuted as a #1 new release on Amazon.
3:25
This isn't a book about criminal justice reform.
3:27
It's a book about economic potential.
3:30
Shetty starts with an overlooked reality.
3:32
There are 80 million Americans with a criminal record.
3:35
That's a massive, underutilized talent pool, and one whose
3:38
barriers to employment cost our economy a staggering 1.2
3:41
trillion a year. What I love about this book is
3:44
the approach. Shetty uses data to show how
3:47
second chance hiring isn't just a social good, it's a
3:50
competitive advantage. It lowers turnover, fills labor
3:53
gaps, and creates A virtuous cycle of growth.
3:56
Whether you're a business leader, a policy maker, or
3:58
someone who believes in reframing the narrative around
4:01
just as impacted individuals, Second Chance Economics is a
4:05
must read. Pick up your copy today on
4:07
Amazon. Michael, welcome in.
4:14
How are you, Brian? Well, I am doing pretty good and
4:17
I know you are in the midst of the fight of your life and
4:22
you've gone through the whole process here and awaiting
4:25
sentence in this month hoping for a pardon.
4:29
And you know this, this story's crazy.
4:32
You know, I hear a lot of stories, but you know, this one
4:35
has so many different angles to it on how it got to where it
4:39
was. But I know you've got and it
4:42
kind of an interesting story of how you got here as a kid.
4:46
But your family came over from Panama.
4:49
Is that right? How old?
4:52
How old would you have been when you were coming over to the
4:54
United States? Cause your story's kind of like
4:56
an American success story. What?
4:58
How old would you have been? I was 10 when we moved to the
5:01
States. So what was all that like for
5:04
you? It was it was tough, but you
5:07
know, we moved to Miami so that that was the easy part of, of
5:10
moving here. So coming from, I mean, a, a
5:14
country that's two hours away and via plane to basically come
5:18
into a place where everybody speaks English and Spanish, kind
5:22
of Panama was kind of very similar.
5:24
A lot of American influence in Panama.
5:26
So it wasn't, it wasn't that hard.
5:29
The, the tougher part was when I was 15, which you're a little
5:32
bit older and you're kind of start making your friends and
5:34
really becoming you. When they picked up and moved
5:37
this to New York, I think that was a tougher part.
5:41
So you guys moved to New York. You were 15.
5:44
Now I I remember your part of your story.
5:49
So your parents became American citizens and then at 18 years
5:53
old, did you have to go through something on your own?
5:56
They were in the process of becoming American citizens and
5:58
then I became had to then because it was in the process
6:03
and I turned 18, I had to redo all by myself and then.
6:06
Because you were considered an adult.
6:08
Correct. So then the refiling took a
6:11
short time and then I I had got sworn in separately, yes.
6:15
Wow. So when you had swingers, well.
6:19
So at 18 years old, what's your next step in life?
6:22
Well, I was going to, I was going to City University of New
6:24
York, CUNY school and kind of still didn't know what to do,
6:31
but I kind of just fell into finance.
6:34
I've always liked math. I've always numbers was my easy
6:37
part of everything in life. I mean, I could have slept
6:40
through math and algebra and everything else and I always
6:42
still had an AB average without without doing the works.
6:46
Naturally, Wall Street came coming.
6:48
I was a broker for I think 15 years and then I went around.
6:54
A lot with that world people when they say they entered the
6:56
Wall Street, you know that I've always get go back to the movie
6:59
Wall Street and you know, that movie in the 80s was what was
7:05
that like for you as a young kid?
7:06
What I mean, you, you had moved to New York.
7:08
You now you, you're a citizen now you're on Wall Street.
7:12
What what was that like for you? What was was like walking into
7:17
that world? Downtown Manhattan was so cool,
7:20
man. I mean, it was, it was, it was
7:22
to be able to like, you know that you see the the movies on
7:25
people getting off the train or the ferry and they're looking up
7:28
to the buildings and everything. Like you'd love it.
7:31
You know, it's, it's these we always used to say to each
7:35
other, all the guys that we work with is like man's the best.
7:38
There's always something happening somewhere, right?
7:40
Like like it's it's go downstairs the building, there's
7:45
this little cafes filled with people.
7:47
You go another 10 feet over. There's a middle of the day in
7:51
the middle of the work week. Some people are having a party
7:54
outside of a in a restaurant, you know, and.
7:56
It's always on. Something happening somewhere so
7:59
different such business deals being negotiated in this
8:04
restaurant at the same exact time.
8:05
Like so many different things happening everywhere in every
8:09
angle. Like there's we say there's
8:11
action everywhere, you know yeah.
8:13
And I I. I think as a kid, you know,
8:16
coming over from Panama and living and basically the
8:19
epicenter of where everything happens had to be something.
8:25
Yeah, I mean, Panama now is, I guess you could say, like mini
8:30
New York City now, but nothing holds a light to what New York
8:33
City was late nineties, 2000s, you know, it's nothing like it.
8:39
I feel bad for whoever has to grow up in New York City now,
8:42
unfortunately. But.
8:44
It's changed a lot. So, so sad.
8:46
You said you spent 15 years on Wall Street.
8:50
Did you stay at one place or did you kind of progress and get
8:53
into different positions? How did that work for you?
8:56
I worked at I worked at about 3 different boutique firms 2013 I
9:00
kind of put my I learned a little bit about the whole pre
9:02
appeal thing learned that the SEC relax rules.
9:06
My son was born in 2015. Inro was becoming who's, for
9:12
example, like Finra's like the police and the SE CS like the
9:16
FBI, right? That's the best way to explain.
9:19
So FINRA became a little bit too much.
9:22
I mean, a client could cry wolf and they'll just they just for I
9:29
mean, they would solicit arbitrations for customers and
9:32
you know, it's it's crazy, right?
9:38
The best way I can explain it is you're driving in the car and
9:42
the police are pulling over the car next to you.
9:44
They asked them if you blew the red light.
9:47
You know what I mean? Like, like, that's, that's how
9:49
it was. Yeah.
9:51
So in 2015, my daughter was born and I was like, I need to do
9:57
more. And I just started looking at
10:00
other avenues and I stumbled with, with some connections out
10:04
of San Francisco and it led me to Peter Thiel's founders fund
10:09
that was connected to a gentleman that I met.
10:11
And he goes, look, I have these customers, I manage their money,
10:15
but I need to create liquidity. So if we could create some sort
10:18
of entity that then I started doing my homework and my
10:22
partners, Brian and Fran, we're we're connected with another pre
10:25
IPO fund. And you know, I, I, and they
10:29
weren't happy because the guy was just skimming from them when
10:35
he's supposed to pay them if he's, if he owed them $10,000,
10:38
he'd give them seven and whatever.
10:40
So I said, you know, you guys know me, let's, let's go.
10:44
And I need to do something. I got 2 little kids and I and I
10:46
need to do something. And I'm done with the brokerage.
10:48
I'm done with having to deal with worldly events or if the
10:53
market goes down 500 points or it goes up.
10:55
I just don't want to deal with that.
10:57
Anymore. Yeah, well, you'd lived that
10:58
life quite a while, 15 years. How did is that?
11:01
How straight path was born? Yes, that's exactly what
11:04
straight path was born my partner let's.
11:06
Let's talk about, because a lot of people don't even understand
11:09
or know the, the rules were relaxed in a way that allowed
11:15
people. I mean, Airbnb, there's a lot of
11:18
different ones, Uber, there's all kinds of different ones in
11:20
the, in that market where people were able to buy shares pre IPO
11:26
and then you guys would buy those shares, you'd sell those
11:29
out and then you would make basically your dollars, your
11:34
profit on how that thing does. When it went to the IPO, you
11:36
that was your gap, your your profit margin.
11:39
Right. Our, our real money, like we
11:42
made money on a markup, but our real money was predicated I'd
11:45
say anywhere from 40 to 60% of the money that me and my
11:50
partners made was based on the incentive on performance, right.
11:56
So we took 20% of the profit. So if you invested $100,000 with
12:01
me and I made you $100,000, I'd give you a your 100 back plus 80
12:05
and I'd keep 20 for myself or the business.
12:08
We keep 20 for the business and. So this thing you know Mike, it
12:13
really grows. I mean straight path becomes
12:16
what was a almost a 500, five, $100 million investment
12:21
portfolio. You had I think 2200 investors.
12:26
I mean it was A and and what amount of time did that take to
12:29
build up? 2000 so we in October of 17 we
12:32
launched the company. 1018 we were all busting our butts.
12:37
I'm working 15-16 hours a day late.
12:40
I think it was somewhere in 2000.
12:41
It's. A good point too, like is that a
12:46
lot of people think that the entrepreneur Rd. is an easy one.
12:51
If you could just get an idea, then it all explodes.
12:54
And there's so much work that goes into, there's failures,
12:59
there's things you got to figure out, OK, I won't do that.
13:02
I have to do this. And you kind of mold it as you
13:04
go. You know, the, the, the thing
13:06
I've always heard about, you know, being an entrepreneur is
13:09
you build the airplane on the way down and, and you know,
13:12
you've got to do so many things to you and you're risking, you
13:16
know, everything to make it work.
13:18
And that also means hours and also means, you know, time that
13:21
you're away from your family. But you guys really grew, really
13:24
got big. And, and, you know, here's the
13:26
other thing that is interesting about your growth.
13:29
And the story of this is that you don't really grow in these
13:32
type of things unless you've got people talking about that.
13:36
They're happy about it, they're making dollars.
13:39
You know, people don't usually go and invest with people and
13:41
say, yeah, well, we lose all the time, but we really like the
13:45
guys. Nobody right so so we I mean
13:53
partially we also grew because now President Trump's first term
13:57
SEC chair Jay Clay and his basically putting on news
14:01
releases saying that we want to make pre IPO more accessible to
14:05
the regular investor, right. So companies like me, I'm not
14:09
saying they're not endorsing me, but I mean, I mean, when you're
14:14
speaking to a client and and you he sees that because he's on
14:18
CNBC saying it are there's all sorts of financial publications
14:22
regurgitating his quote and you hear about us and we're pre FBO
14:26
fund. What are you going to do?
14:26
You're going to want to invest, right?
14:28
Plus, we also provided a lot of boutique broker dealers and
14:33
registered investment advisors an opportunity to to bring these
14:37
to their fund because otherwise these investments were
14:39
monopolized by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Yeah.
14:42
You were the little guy kind of being the disruptor in the in
14:45
the market. But that also, you know, it kind
14:49
of goes back to the Stephen Keller thing.
14:51
You know, Steven built a $13 billion business, but it wasn't
14:56
great for the insurance companies because the insurance
14:59
companies, they planned on 90% of those policies lapsing.
15:02
Well, when he got into the business, none of those policies
15:05
last because he was buying the policies.
15:07
So in your case, you were basically created a new path for
15:13
people to get in. So people understand too,
15:15
Somebody's working at Airbnb. You're also helping them, you
15:18
know, maybe they need some cash where they are.
15:22
They've got, you know, shares. And so they're gonna they're
15:25
gonna sell some of those shares and maybe sell all the shares.
15:27
I don't know what to do. And and so it was kind of a win
15:30
win for both sides. You get pre IPO shares, they get
15:33
the shares that aren't IPO, but they get their worth something
15:36
and they've got a market for it. So in that case, I mean, you've
15:40
got to be the smart guy that figures out who wants to sell.
15:43
I mean, that's not easy, but you guys are figuring out who wants
15:46
to sell those shares and then both sides benefit from it.
15:49
So how how many years go by here before something happens?
15:54
Into in 20/20/21 into 20 twos when the government started
15:59
coming after us. OK.
16:00
So I want to, I want to get into that because in your case, you
16:05
weren't required to be a registered reporting investment
16:09
advisor, correct? So, so when they came to you,
16:13
you also weren't required to give them anything.
16:16
But you guys were very open with the fact that we're very happy
16:20
and proud of what we're doing. So sure, look, check it out.
16:24
And so you literally gave them whatever they wanted.
16:28
Correct. So in 2018 and 19 and 2017, the
16:32
SEC wanted to come meet with us just so you know, we, we, you
16:36
guys are new fund and this and that we no problem come by.
16:41
We, we had booked a conference room at the, the office suite
16:44
that we were in and we sat down, we talked, we, we told him how
16:48
we do our business and that was it.
16:49
And same thing in 2018 and same thing in 2019.
16:53
Obviously in 2020 didn't happen because of COVID, but you know,
16:57
and then I don't know where there's guns to our head,
16:59
basically. So how does it happen?
17:03
You guys are just rolling along. You've got 2200 investors, you
17:07
got a big fund. It's growing.
17:10
Business is good. During COVID managed by three
17:14
people, OK, right. And, and, and they say that we
17:18
raised 400 million, but the payments in the, the redemptions
17:23
back to the customers and profits and shares and
17:26
everything else, it's well over a billion dollars that we paid
17:29
back to customers. So it's like we paid, I think
17:31
anywhere from a billion billion 1 to a billion 2 back to this
17:38
Ponzi scheme. I don't know what Ponzi, what
17:40
Ponzi like scheme triples people's money.
17:43
No, it's that's not the definition of it.
17:45
So these guys are looking, they they come and they do their
17:48
audits and whatever. When do you think, wait a
17:51
minute, something doesn't feel right?
17:53
On May 13th of 2022, when they took the company from us, up
17:56
until then, all they were telling us is they wanted us to
17:59
negotiate a fine, OK, change in administration.
18:01
You got to pay the piper. They want their taste too.
18:04
The funny part is in like, did you?
18:06
Say pay a fine. Yeah, they wanted us to pay 2 to
18:09
$5,000,000 fine, which we said we are.
18:11
What? Would that have been applied to
18:13
what? For what just you got to pay.
18:16
Our lawyers said they want their taste and I said, I know the
18:19
government's going to want their taste, so let's give them a
18:21
taste of what we bought. Because in the middle of 21, me
18:27
and my two partners actually had a phone call.
18:29
We spoke, it was like a 15 minute phone call.
18:30
We're like, OK, God's bless us. We made a shit ton of money.
18:35
Let's let's just, let's just let for the rest of the companies to
18:40
go public and we can retire. My goal was to retire by by the
18:44
time I was 50, right? I was like, OK, we're in a great
18:47
spot. Let's just I ride this out.
18:51
Ride this out. Yeah, I've millions of dollars
18:54
on the table that we can, we'll make money off for the next 5
18:58
years. And all we have to do is just
19:00
distribute or liquidate shares to people if there's a profit
19:05
and that's it. And we started telling all our
19:10
referral agents, all the other broker dealers that we worked
19:13
with, all the other registered investment advisors say, listen,
19:16
so instead I'm in 2200 customers, we wanted to have 10.
19:20
They could have their own retail customers and they could deal
19:23
with that. We wanted to be if they needed
19:25
or wanted shares, I'm only selling, let's say 1,000,000
19:29
shares to one person, which is 1 fund one entity.
19:33
So we were telling them all. So they all started doing the
19:35
process of that. So we were, we were good.
19:41
Like I'm like, when else is God got a bless you making
19:44
25,000,000? I don't need to make 100.
19:46
I, I'm good. Yeah.
19:47
Yeah, you're living there. Yeah, they take.
19:51
God bless me. Right.
19:53
So you said on that date, how do you get how do you get this
19:58
phone call? What happens and then what?
20:00
What starts? How's the process start?
20:04
They're just freezing all our assets.
20:06
They're freezing they, they, they claim that we're short 14.6
20:10
million. They have a share, we have a
20:12
share shortage and we're like where?
20:15
And we start going through it because then what they do is
20:19
when they create. Talking to your attorneys or
20:21
anything at at the time or was this just their audit and they
20:24
came back and said, hey, we think there's 14.6 that needs to
20:27
go back in here. And did you guys have a back and
20:31
forth about that before? You were like you're wrong and
20:34
there was a lawsuit. So the SEC accountant right
20:38
before this, right before they froze all our assets and labeled
20:42
us that Ponzi like scheme and went to the to the ever honest
20:46
Clinton appointed judge, Judge Lewis Kaplan, who also had a lot
20:50
of beef with our President Trump.
20:51
They said we were sure 14.6 were like, did you look at the
20:55
brokerage accounts? And it's and this is on the
20:58
record on on his on his deposition.
21:01
No, I was too busy. I only looked at the bank
21:04
accounts and that's why I labeled the deposit like scheme.
21:06
So you so you look at half of the product, you look at my you
21:11
look at my bank accounts, but you don't look at the company
21:14
brokerage accounts at their shares and there's money and
21:16
and, and assets. You don't look at the purchases
21:19
of shares to match up. No, I didn't.
21:21
I was too busy. Doesn't matter.
21:23
The judges. The judges didn't give a shit.
21:25
Pardon my French. I'm sorry.
21:27
So, so by you get this phone call, all of a sudden they, they
21:32
say there's this 14,000,000 and and then do they immediately
21:37
move to, to forfeiture, shut, shut everything down.
21:41
What is it all within weeks? It's within days, days, days.
21:46
It's almost like they already have the plan in place and their
21:49
receiver. So the receiver also, right?
21:51
So we, the plan of action is we suggest 3 receivers and the
21:56
government suggests 3 receivers. We suggested one, our company
22:00
accountant who knew every, all our books probably as good if
22:03
not better than us or his friend who's, or his colleague that's a
22:07
receiver so they could collectively work together.
22:10
And then we suggested an alternate that our lawyers
22:12
suggested that we use. And the government chose three
22:15
people. The judge said none to that to
22:17
all six and appointed his own receiver.
22:21
The receiver is not even approved with the US government
22:24
to be a receiver chose probably somebody he has a personal
22:27
relationship with. I've always said his friend, but
22:31
I don't know if she is or isn't his friend.
22:33
But I mean, it's it's she's generating anywhere from 14 to
22:37
$30 million in revenue four years later.
22:41
Yeah. What is that?
22:43
Saying about this, when all this happens, this is this is like a
22:46
nuclear bomb that's dropped on you.
22:48
What what's going on in in those conversations between you and
22:52
your attorneys? It's I mean 11 attorney that we
22:54
had basically said it was a political hit job.
22:58
Nobody. I mean, I mean, I don't think we
23:02
ever had the conversation of, you know, because they've been
23:04
bought. You're getting bombarded with so
23:06
much. You're trying to free up
23:07
whatever bank accounts they agreed to free it up so you can
23:10
live because you go from basically one day being able to
23:15
pay your electrical, the next day the spigots turned off and
23:17
you can't get to it to turn pay the electric.
23:19
And that's that's the way it's been.
23:23
What did you do? I mean, in that in that world
23:26
where they shut everything down for you, what, how did you make
23:29
money? Thank God there was there was a,
23:31
there was a substantial amount of money, my wife, not a
23:33
substantial decent amount of money in my wife's account that
23:36
we could survive. We survived on it for probably a
23:39
year and a half on it. And that was just just to live.
23:43
And I mean, that's just paying bills and then keeping the
23:46
lights on and you. Got two kids?
23:49
Two young kids, then they don't understand it.
23:53
Yeah. What has that been like for your
23:55
family in this time period of the last couple of years?
24:00
My 13 year old's not good. Not good.
24:02
He doesn't talk about it but I can tell you who are and he's
24:05
the one that suffers the most. He goes to school, they tell him
24:07
his dad's a thief daily basis and he doesn't say 2 words about
24:13
it. But I know he's hurting because
24:17
every time I've had to go to New York for sentencing or
24:18
something, he wants to come with me because he doesn't want me to
24:21
be alone. So it's been rough for him.
24:24
It's been very rough for my wife.
24:26
You know, we moved to Florida. We didn't know anybody.
24:28
We made some friends in the neighborhood and all of a sudden
24:30
she goes out for like 1 of the neighbors dinner, birthday
24:33
dinner, right? 7-8 girls.
24:35
And and they asked her to use our membership at a restaurant
24:40
or whatever that to be able to so we can they could go eat
24:43
there, goes eat there. They get on the bus to come back
24:47
home. And what are the girls like?
24:48
Yeah, you can only afford these things because your husband robs
24:50
money from all. So you know, that causes a lot
24:53
of strain in your marriage too, right?
24:55
That that causes a big strain because.
24:58
Well, because the narrative gets set, you get the you get an
25:01
indictment, you get, I mean, before that you had everything
25:05
before the indictment, you had the civil side where they they
25:08
already had seized and forfeited.
25:11
So you, your bank accounts and everything else.
25:12
So you, you, you got a double hit and, and then you're having
25:16
to live through all that and be against the United States of
25:21
America to try to defend yourself and, and a narrative
25:24
that's set out into the public that unfortunately most
25:27
everybody believes because it's the United States of America
25:30
that's putting a press release out there.
25:33
I want to take a break here because when we get back, I want
25:35
to talk about going to trial and, and what happened at the
25:39
trial and, and, and where you are now and what's going on
25:43
because you know, this isn't, this is somewhat of an unusual
25:45
situation. I usually talk to people who
25:48
have gone through everything and you actually are in the moment
25:52
of this, which I think is it's pretty courageous of you, Mike
25:56
to. To Who's going to defend my way
25:58
to kids? Who's going to defend them if
26:00
I'm not here, right I. Respect.
26:03
I respect you trying to get your story out in the midst of
26:08
looking at everything that's coming your way.
26:12
Folks, I want to share with you a powerful and moving new book
26:14
you won't want to miss. My name is Saffron Voices,
26:18
Silence stifled and taken away by author Saffron Gustafson.
26:22
This isn't just a story. It's a journey through
26:24
resilience, survival, and reclaiming your voice after
26:26
being Silence for far too long. Saffron's story takes you
26:29
inside. The hidden struggles, the pain,
26:31
and ultimately the triumph are refusing to be defined by
26:33
circumstances. As Saffron was putting the
26:35
finishing touches on her book, The Prison, she had just been
26:39
released from Federal Dublin. FCI was permanently closed
26:42
because of sexual abuse of the women prisoners.
26:44
If you've ever wondered what it takes to rise from the darkness
26:47
of places, to find your truth and to speak it boldly, this
26:51
book will inspire you. Pick up your copy of My Name is
26:55
Saffron today, available now on Amazon or wherever books are
26:59
sold. Trust me, you'll be moved,
27:00
challenged, and changed by her story.
27:05
So a lot of people don't like how they show up online.
27:07
Many individuals think that there's no hope when it comes to
27:10
managing your reputation. On Google, there is hope.
27:12
It's called the Discoverability Company that can help you
27:14
whether you're building a reputation from scratch or
27:17
you're preparing your search results after a negative news
27:20
story. Discoverability can also help
27:22
you how you're portrayed on popular AI services like ChatGPT
27:27
listeners and Nice Nightmare Success can get $100 off with
27:30
coupon code Nightmare Success. And the Nightmare Success
27:35
Podcast is sponsored by the White Collar Support Group, the
27:37
world's first support group devoted to people navigating the
27:39
white collar criminal justice system.
27:42
I'm a member of the White Collar Support Group and I can tell you
27:44
this is a bunch of people who help each other through the
27:46
criminal justice journey for free.
27:48
Whether you're just starting your journey or you made it
27:50
through to the other side, this is great space for you.
27:53
You can join us on Zoom Monday, 7:00 PM Eastern Time.
27:57
For more information, go to prisonist.org.
27:59
It's prisonist.org. OK, Mike, so everything happens
28:05
within days. You you're trying to figure out
28:07
for the next year and a half with attorneys and everything
28:09
else. Do you sit down with the
28:11
attorneys? Do they, does the DOJ offer you
28:15
a plea bargain? Or is it from day one you and
28:18
the attorneys are saying no, we're going to trial?
28:21
We're going to trial, right? What what's the point?
28:23
Math math doesn't lie on the civil.
28:27
We're always going to trial. Then when we found out, I think
28:31
it was like November of 22. So now it's months after the the
28:38
civil charge. Everything you know, life's
28:41
sucks, but you know, we're, we're, we could still, we're
28:46
still in the midst of the battle, but it gets a little,
28:48
you know, way two years to go to court.
28:52
The our lawyers tell us that the DOJ and the and the SEC have
28:56
been communicating some district in New York and the SEC have
28:59
been communicating. We have to ask for the
29:00
communications because we need to know what they're
29:02
communicating to prepare any type of response or answer would
29:07
be pre emptive, right. So you asked for discovery.
29:09
Basically we asked for all the discovery on it.
29:12
And the DOJ says, if we ask again, they're going to just
29:17
charge us. So they basically threatened us,
29:20
leave us alone or we're just going to charge you and throw
29:23
you in jail just because we we can.
29:26
Basically, that's the way that it was related to us.
29:28
I was like, are you kidding me? I said, what is God's green
29:32
earth? Does the DOJ think that we did?
29:36
So then again, the DOJ creates this whole come and give us a
29:40
presentation on everything how you're not a Ponzi scheme.
29:45
So we pre we prepare like a 92 page PowerPoint on us and the
29:49
lawyers prepare it together in like January of 24.
29:52
I believe the DOJ do you. Go to that.
29:55
Meeting no a lawyer is what we wanted to call at the.
29:59
PowerPoint OK. We want it to come and the
30:01
lawyers don't want to, right? And I get it.
30:04
It's their old little hangout club.
30:05
They probably went for lunch together.
30:06
Just the bullshit. And then this is just a
30:08
footnote. You know, I'm starting to see
30:10
how lawyers operate, unfortunately.
30:13
So what happens after this PowerPoint?
30:17
Nothing till we actually thought that I think we started
30:22
preparing again for the civil case in late in the middle of
30:25
24, OK, thinking that this is kind of over like our, our, our
30:33
authorize the civil case, like we even scheduled the
30:35
conference. We had a conference of OK, let's
30:37
not prepare for the civil. We were on the phone the next
30:40
day. All of a sudden, after the stays
30:41
expired, they stay again the civil case.
30:43
Well, they usually stay a civil case if they're getting ready to
30:46
come down with criminal charges. Right.
30:48
So on November, on November, I think 28th or 29th of 2023, on a
30:56
Wednesday, it's the Wednesday after Thanksgiving, I get a
30:58
phone, I get a text from my lawyer.
31:00
I need to get in a Zoom review right now.
31:02
He had an unsealed indictment for us that I had to get to New
31:05
York to turn myself in. So the so the moment that you
31:09
thought that you were kind of getting to the point you wanted
31:12
to be with the civil case, you get shut down and the next thing
31:16
that shows up is an indictment for you and you got to be in New
31:19
York. Yep.
31:22
What happens next? Go to New York, turn myself in,
31:26
fingerprinted the mug shot, the, you know, the parade of putting
31:31
me in a cell, handcuffing me, driving me around Manhattan, the
31:34
back of a squad car, a federal car in Manhattan.
31:38
I have to deal with US marshals basically.
31:40
Oh, we got a fancy guy, but, you know, treatment like I'm a piece
31:43
of garbage. And it was just a very, very,
31:46
very ugly day. And then comes I had to prepare
31:49
for a criminal trial. I don't have any money for a
31:51
lawyer anymore, so I had to go court appointed.
31:54
And so basically 24 random conversations here and there and
32:02
preparing for for the court case last year, you know, that's when
32:06
they start getting serious. I mean I've I've had coming.
32:10
To you and talking to your attorney about, hey, if these
32:13
guys are just, you know, cop this plea, then then this is all
32:17
over with. Or was there any of those kind
32:19
of discussions? Yeah.
32:20
But we've said, we said if we plea, we're not.
32:23
If we plea, we'll lie. If we plea, we.
32:25
Lie. Right, so, so we didn't want to.
32:29
And they pray. Because very few people go to
32:32
trial. Walk me through that.
32:34
Well before trial, when we got the luck of the draw of Judge
32:38
Fuhrman, another wonderfully honest Obama appointed Judge
32:43
Judge Fuhrman. Well, the the AUSA's used Judge
32:48
Fuhrman's block deportation to Mahmoud Khalil to their
32:53
advantage. And my lawyer calls me and tells
32:56
me that my court appointed that that my that the AUSAS are
33:00
thinking of using the same tactics that judge to go to
33:04
Judge Fuhrman to use the same tactics that block the Muhammad
33:07
Mahmoud Khalil deportation to under the Trump administration
33:11
now denaturalize me and deport me.
33:15
Wait a minute. What?
33:16
Let's let's talk through that The the the Department of
33:21
Justice wanted to denaturalize you and send you back to Panama.
33:25
I think they were trying to use it more of this care tactic, but
33:28
to use it. So you're praying on two things,
33:32
right? Me believing that the system's
33:35
going to change because the man that I voted for, the man that I
33:39
supported for and the man that they came after me for
33:41
supporting for openly, vividly and, and all over the place and
33:46
all over social media. So you're going to pray on that.
33:50
And two, you threatened to take away my citizenship with an
33:53
event that's all over major news throughout the country because
33:58
that was one of the first deportations that were blocked
34:00
for President Trump. So they used it as a tactic to
34:04
try to get something out of me that wasn't going to happen.
34:06
And that and, and honestly, listen, I'm I'm a fighter every
34:11
step of the way. But if you ever had a low point
34:12
in your life that that you, you want to go to sleep and not wake
34:15
up because you think your family's better off without you,
34:18
that was it. And I went through about a week
34:21
of that. And then I snapped out of it and
34:23
I said, I have to fight for my wife and kids.
34:24
I was. Yeah, and I know exactly what
34:26
you're saying because there's a point and I think everybody gets
34:30
to it at some point. Is you, you just have a gigantic
34:33
pity party for yourself and you feel victimized and, and then
34:38
you've got to snap out of that because you got to survive it.
34:40
You got to fight it. And, and there's such a
34:42
different feeling you have when you're in this storm of you
34:46
can't be feeling like a victim. You have to feel like a fighter.
34:49
You have to feel like you're going to survive it.
34:52
Right. So when I just became a pest on
34:56
X and it led me to Trenice Evans, who's a January Sixer who
35:01
is connected to Peter Tikton and Peter Tikton.
35:04
And I, I mean, you know, that was from March all the way
35:06
through June. And we finally met Peter Tikton
35:10
and we had a conversation. With who Peter Tikton as.
35:13
Peter Tikton is he's represent the President Trump in couple of
35:18
the cases in New York. He's was his high school
35:21
roommate, I believe in the Naval Academy.
35:23
So you know, he he knows, he knows the president and he knows
35:28
him well. And I just knew that like you,
35:32
this is your own nightmare that you're living inside this
35:35
tornado or this hurricane of stuff.
35:38
And you can get out of your own way to even meet who's the next
35:42
conservative person or, or who's this one?
35:45
Who's that one? I had no clue to think there
35:46
was. And all of a sudden trying to
35:47
tell me, and I start a little researcher.
35:49
I go, Oh my God, God's bless me and does the due diligence on me
35:52
for like a due diligence on my case for like a month or two a
35:55
little bit. And then and then you realize
35:57
we're weaponized against. He took me on, he took my
36:00
partners on. He he brought up pardon
36:01
applications. He's actually vying for attorney
36:05
general now, which I think hope to God if he if he gets it and
36:08
it makes probably this fight a lot easier.
36:12
And you know that that all was happening leading to.
36:15
Try you to make a connection like that.
36:18
Wasn't me. That's difficult.
36:21
God put him on my lap. It wasn't me.
36:24
It wasn't. I don't know how they honestly,
36:27
if it wasn't forgotten. I don't think I know Peter
36:29
Tikton's name. Yeah, yeah.
36:33
That's, that's incredible. So how long does this trial last
36:37
it? Started on about two 2 1/2
36:39
weeks. It started on October 20th and
36:42
ended November 4th of 2025 of 2025, correct.
36:49
And I've never seen all five of our lawyers walk out of that
36:55
courtroom smiling every day. Thinking that they'd won the
36:59
day. Right.
37:01
Every day experts that were leaving with their tails between
37:09
their legs, experts, taxpayer dollar wasted experts, millions
37:14
of dollars wasted on these experts.
37:17
Witnesses that had to reread their testimonies from the prior
37:21
day back to themselves, quote UN quote victims, which were four
37:27
clients. Three of them.
37:29
One was a forensic accountant that invested in the fund due to
37:33
his dad quote UN quote and the transcript making unbelievable
37:37
amounts of money with straight path and Palantir and Airbnb and
37:41
two other investors some another lady she her her neighbor and
37:47
best friend made made was beyond excited was Palantir sulphi and
37:53
Airbnb investment. So the the three out of four
37:58
people came to us, didn't want to invest with us because of the
38:00
success and because they get a free trip to New York and a
38:05
hotel that they come and they'll say whatever the government
38:08
tells them. You also had the situation where
38:12
the judge gave jury instructions that from the standpoint, I have
38:16
a theory about this whole thing with white collar trials,
38:20
because, you know, a white collar trial usually has a lot
38:24
of documents, has a lot of different statues.
38:27
It has a lot of different things going on, moving parts of
38:29
people. A lot of times whether you're
38:31
talking about insurance, whether you're talking about
38:32
investments, whether you're talking about whatever, it can
38:35
be very confusing. It's not like going to a trial
38:38
and you're accusing somebody of murdering somebody.
38:41
Either they did it or they didn't.
38:44
What I think happens with, you know, these white collar trials
38:47
is, is that they have this assumption before you ever walk
38:52
in. Well, the government has
38:55
researched this and they, they're the government.
38:58
So they're, they had to have done something.
39:00
Why would we be here? Why would they be wasting their
39:03
time and money? If this person has and then
39:06
they, they, they have a lot of charges and they can stack those
39:09
charges. So it becomes very confusing to
39:12
a jury about what all that means.
39:15
And one of the things you talked about, Mike, is that this judge
39:20
broke it down for them to make it very easy to convict you
39:24
guys, 'cause I think the the charges were what, wire fraud,
39:28
what, what were the, there were two or three charges.
39:31
Four of them are invest all investment advisor, related
39:34
investment advisor, cause conspiracy to commit wire fraud,
39:38
commingling and then obstruction of justice.
39:41
So if all my stuff I gave to you is voluntarily, what does
39:43
obstruction of justice come from?
39:46
Because. You gave them everything
39:49
voluntarily because you didn't have to under correct.
39:53
Go in when you guys were just thinking you were being nice.
39:56
Take come in and take a look, right?
39:58
Exempt reporting advisor we should not be get charged as
40:02
investment advisors and any type of investment advisor fraud or
40:06
any right because we weren't so basically for for 2 1/2 weeks we
40:11
fought to prove. That we weren't investment
40:15
advisors in the difference. And when the charging
40:18
instructions go to the jury, he basically says just to charge
40:20
him as investment advisors. So what did they do before
40:23
investment? Advisors.
40:25
The jury comes back, goes to the back room, has lunch and they,
40:29
they play probably with the computer 5 minutes, you know,
40:32
of, of a million documents like you said, or whatever documents
40:36
are. And they, and then we're all
40:38
guilty on all counts because this judge also chose to try us
40:41
during a government shutdown. So that jury knows they're not
40:43
getting paid till the government reopens, which is also part of
40:46
it. We, I think we were the only
40:47
case of being tried in that building, I believe, because
40:49
that building was a dead zone to go in there every day.
40:56
So the, so the, the attorneys every day are, are coming out
41:00
saying we're thinking we've won the day.
41:03
We've won the day. When that jury went back to
41:07
deliberate, what were you thinking?
41:09
When he gave them those instructions, you always felt
41:11
like we were toast. What'd you say?
41:13
I felt like we were toast when he kind of gave them those
41:15
instructions. Yeah, so they come back in and
41:21
they read off the verdict. What's going through your mind?
41:23
How could this be? I mean, I mean, you know, the
41:26
jury's half of the jury sleeps throughout the whole thing.
41:30
Yeah. 33 out of 12 are sleeping at any given moment.
41:35
And the jury selection process is, is, is is is absurd too,
41:40
right? I mean, I mean, the 35 jurors
41:42
that they had there, there was three that should have been.
41:45
I mean, one lady stated when they were interviewing her that
41:49
she's very familiar with the prayer PO on the street.
41:52
She has a lot of friends and neighbors that are involved in
41:54
it and work in it. She knows how it works.
41:57
You'd want her there. Both sides should want her
41:59
there, right? Then you also want a financial
42:05
advisor. You also want the the friends,
42:06
the accountant that was in there, the financial attorney.
42:10
Those people are the people, right?
42:12
They say you're going to be tried by jury of your peers.
42:14
No, they cherry pick the people that.
42:19
Can be confused by it. Could be yes, the people that
42:22
they wanted, they want to they want them to leave their fried
42:26
not understanding a stitch of anything you want.
42:29
I mean, they picked they picked an old lady.
42:31
God bless us all. She was like she she was.
42:34
She looked so confused every day like what is this right?
42:38
You you're talking to her about something.
42:41
Something she's never heard in her whole life.
42:43
So you've got this sentencing coming up.
42:47
What are the What's the guidelines for your sentence?
42:49
So we did half the sentencing on April 15th.
42:52
And the reason why we're the sentencing got broken up into
42:55
two steps was because at 5 O clock the night before of the
42:59
sentencing, the they filed that the government filed an order.
43:04
They want full forfeiture of the $400 million that we raised.
43:08
That should all we all need to pay it all back.
43:11
And, and, and they want full forfeiture of all the money that
43:14
I made and my homes and everything else.
43:17
So they want to seize this house.
43:20
I mean, I mean, they went from this house to my wife's
43:22
sunglasses, right? So then we're good when we're
43:25
going through the we're able to fight and all of a sudden the
43:28
judge is like, OK, a starting point we're going to use now is
43:31
150 million what everybody made, and we're going to break it up.
43:35
And yeah, but he wanted to charge anyone.
43:38
He goes, yeah, we'll just, we'll just later change the amount.
43:41
No, this doesn't work like that. We have to trust you, judge.
43:45
Now, all of a sudden, every time we objected to something that
43:49
the government was asking, you were you, you didn't agree with
43:53
any objection that we ever had. And now all of a sudden we
43:56
should trust you. Right, Judge?
43:57
Come on. So we fought and fought and
44:00
fought, and that's what we got. The sentencing kind of broken
44:03
up. But yeah, no, they they don't
44:06
want to take my house. They want to take my wife's son.
44:07
They want to take everything in between.
44:10
And the amount on your guidelines, what's the, what's
44:13
the amount of years that you look at?
44:15
My my personal seizure is 25,000,000 and the restitution
44:19
is collectively 115,000,000 between the three of us.
44:22
And the guidelines for this sentencing is.
44:24
What do you think that is? So when at first their points
44:27
was I think 43 is their scale of a point, right.
44:31
They have us at a 49, they have us at a 49 PSR report.
44:36
Obviously we we suggest zero time.
44:40
The government suggests 11 years, but I mean, before this
44:45
year they were telling us 25 to life and the judge could do
44:47
whatever he wants. You know that.
44:49
And they've stated in their PSR report that they're a little
44:52
upset at my press tour that I've been on.
44:56
They say that I've lied about saying that the government's
44:59
been weaponized against me. And so, you know, I think that's
45:02
going to be a big talking point at the second-half of the
45:04
sentencing in two weeks. So who knows what he's going to
45:10
do? Because obviously they don't
45:12
like to be exposed when you tell them using your First Amendment
45:16
right. And I think now our lawyers have
45:18
become just risk mitigators, which that's not the way to be.
45:21
You're supposed to fight. Right, Yeah, the system really
45:25
hasn't been set up that way for an awful long time to it's
45:29
usually like, you know, we say this number all the time, 97% of
45:32
the people that are indicted plea and a lot of it's because
45:36
they, you know, have a stacked charges of whatever that gives
45:39
you hundreds of years and people are afraid to fight.
45:42
You've actually fought and you've actually tried to stand
45:47
out in front of your story to tell people what happened, how
45:51
it happened and what you're living through now, which takes
45:56
a lot of it's elephant sized ball stuff, Mike to to do all
46:00
that. Who's gonna as a father, as a
46:03
husband, you, you gotta provide and protect and and if I'm not
46:09
doing this, I'm not providing and I'm not protecting.
46:11
What do you think is your biggest take away through all
46:13
this you've gone through? I said whether I go to jail, go
46:16
to law school to actually be a lawyer with a conscience, not
46:21
these people that just because when you're in that room, it's,
46:24
it's, it's like they're their little club hanging out and you
46:27
just, you just their next, their next fly that they're going to
46:30
flick when, when they, when they get annoyed with you.
46:32
There needs to be a total revamp of this judicious system in this
46:36
country. Yeah, yeah.
46:38
And you you don't know until you don't know until you know.
46:42
You don't know until you know, till you live it.
46:44
Right. Yeah, till you live it to the
46:46
sentencing. I actually brought two friends,
46:50
which I never did. I told my wife to not to come
46:52
the kids, the kids, you know, worry about them and they walked
46:56
out of there. They they were flabbergasted
46:58
like this judge is a jerk. That's all they kept saying.
47:01
Like how does this guy does this when there's really nothing
47:05
there? It's not, it's, it's nuts,
47:09
right? Like, and it's a building.
47:10
It's an evil building. You won't get to that building.
47:12
You get the feeling that you know you're not in a good place.
47:17
You feel like bad things are going to happen.
47:19
Yeah. Tell you this.
47:20
I, I, I, I hold out hope for you, Mike, on the, on the pardon
47:24
or the clemency. Because you know, you've got a
47:26
lot of people that I've looked at all the different people that
47:29
are out there supporting you and making videos and, and you know,
47:32
I had Carlos Watson on this show back.
47:35
I love to connect with him. I've tried I I like to connect
47:38
with him because we have very similar situations and I tried
47:42
to connect with him and I can't get him.
47:44
He, he got clemency on the way to his drive to go voluntarily
47:50
surrender. And so I mean those things, you
47:54
know, I, I'm not ever thought those things happen, but they do
47:58
happen. It's, it's, it's just getting to
48:01
the right moment, right time and, you know, actions taken.
48:04
But I hope, I hope that happens because I've seen it happen.
48:07
And, and you know, I feel really bad for you and your family
48:12
having to go through what you're going through right now because
48:14
the unknown is, is so big. The next step is the unknown.
48:19
The unknown for them, for my wife and kids and I'm not
48:25
fighting to stay out of jail. You could do whatever you want
48:29
to me leave my wife and kids in their home.
48:32
That's all I want. I don't care what you do to me.
48:35
I'd really don't care. And that is why I'm I'm on with
48:39
you and I've done everything that I've done is because I need
48:43
to make sure that they are taken care of whether I'm with them or
48:48
not. Hopefully I am with them and.
48:51
But, you know, we are filing an appeal and.
48:53
And I don't know what the judge is going to do.
48:56
He might choose to put us in jail on appeal just because it's
48:58
easier to go after all the assets while you're appealing
49:00
it. Yeah, right.
49:02
The way it was explained to me was like, oh, if you're right,
49:05
they'll just give you all your money back, I guess.
49:07
But what do you do when you take my house?
49:08
We didn't do little by little. You're going to give me the
49:10
garage back, then you're going to give me my bedroom, and then
49:12
you're going to give me my bathroom back.
49:14
How does that work? Yeah.
49:16
Oh, it doesn't work like that. OK.
49:17
So then my wife and kids got to live on the street for another
49:19
two years then while I'm in jail.
49:21
No, it doesn't work like that. Oh, yeah.
49:23
My lawyer. Oh, I look into assisted living.
49:25
Like how about I'm not even going to tell?
49:28
It's it's a lot. That's when the New York comes
49:30
out in me. So I can't, you know, well.
49:34
I wish you the best because you fought all the way through this
49:38
and it sounds like you have a good connection.
49:41
Hopefully that can can push its way through and and the rumor
49:45
is, is that there's supposed to be pardons this month till, you
49:49
know, the 4th of July. So we'll see.
49:52
But it's you're doing everything you can, Mike and, and I admire
49:55
it, really do. For me not to God.
49:57
Appreciate you coming on and sharing your story to let people
50:01
know when they're looking at whatever they're reading that
50:04
there's a, there's a, there's a man behind this and he's got,
50:08
he's got a different version of what's happened.
50:10
Yeah. Yeah.
50:11
Because I want. To give a shout out to Homestead
50:13
Financial Home Mortgage if you're looking for a mortgage
50:18
out there, Greg after you have is your guy.
50:20
He knows all that stuff. If you're looking for a book,
50:22
get my book called nightmare success, little to portrayal
50:25
life behind bars, adapting, finally breaking free.
50:29
I've got time. Leave me a leave me a review on
50:31
Apple. I love those reviews.
50:33
I want to find out what I'm doing.
50:34
Go to brickcassidy.com. I spell it wrong.
50:36
I spell it with ATY, not a DY and you also go to
50:39
nightmaresuccess.com. See everything there.
50:42
As I used to say to my people when I was writing my emails
50:44
back and forth from Leavenworth. Stay strong, I'll do the same.
50:48
Mike, man, thanks for coming on. I wish you the best man, really.
50:52
Thank you, God bless you. I've been success in and out.