Latest / Go Long Podcast / Chad Brown on the art of winning

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Chad Brown on the art of winning · Go Long Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hey, how's it going, everyone?
0:01
SPEAKER_00: Tyler Dunne here at Go Long.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Hope you enjoy this conversation with Chad Brown,
0:06
SPEAKER_00: longtime NFL vet, outside linebacker with those Blitzburg-Pittsburgh Steelers.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Eight years with the Seattle Seahawks,
0:13
SPEAKER_00: and he had a couple years with the New England Patriots at the end.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: So all sorts of tales from his playing days, and we get into plenty on the NFL today.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Man, he is one of the sharpest analysts going.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: You're going to want to make sure you listen to him on ESPN Radio,
0:26
SPEAKER_00: catch his broadcasts of college and pro games,
0:29
SPEAKER_00: and we always have him on the podcast.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Every so often to get into the NFL today,
0:34
SPEAKER_00: you'll want to hear his story of the trash-talking Shannon Sharp.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: They went at it once upon a time.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: The entire conversation is right here.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: And also a reminder, we are unveiling our season preview features all the way up to kickoff.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: It's a great time to subscribe, share with a friend.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: We are 100% fueled by our readers.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for keeping us strong into 2026.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: We launched Go Long in November 2020, and we are still going strong all because of you.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Hope you enjoy Chad Brown.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, right behind Chad Brown there, I love the photo you have.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: There he is.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Taking down Mike Vick.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Man, you don't see that often.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Mike Vick, Atlanta Falcons variety.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Getting strip-sacked, it looks like.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: Chad, is that right?
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Your Seattle days?
1:51
SPEAKER_01: That is correct.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: A strip-sack there in Seattle.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: I've got...
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Not to dive too deep into the past,
1:59
SPEAKER_01: but I've got many dog-loving friends who,
2:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
2:02
SPEAKER_01: you do a Zoom call with and they're like, hey, what's that in the background?
2:06
SPEAKER_01: And I show them, they're like, oh, yeah, well, that's what he deserves.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, well.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, you love animals, right?
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Reptiles primarily, I believe, but that had to have been a, you know, that's a point of pride.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: He did run a dog fighting ring, so take him out.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yes, I do love animals more than just reptiles, but reptiles in general for sure.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: And I suppose the pride is more football based on that photo than animal based.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, Mike's served his sentence and has been contrite and says all the right things now.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes culturally,
2:46
SPEAKER_01: we are not raised in the right situation to have the proper view and understanding
2:51
SPEAKER_01: on things.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: So I'll give Mike some grace.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, our country is about forgiveness when people screw up, at least the first time.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: You go down that road again, we may not be so nice the second time.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: We were just talking about Vic on our last pod, me and Jim Monas, my co-host at Rio Football.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: He was a scout for the Eagles, Saints, Bills, but he made a great point.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: He really believes that Mike Vic is a top 10 all-time quarterback
3:19
SPEAKER_00: that just didn't have the infrastructure.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Like if he had a coach and an offense that would have accentuated his gifts,
3:27
SPEAKER_00: who knows what we would have seen at that point of his career.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know how you did it behind.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Did you remember that play?
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Like how in the hell did you track him down?
3:35
SPEAKER_00: And make a play.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: That has to be right up there with some of your all-timers.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Considering the photos right behind me, of course I remember the play.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Coming off the defense's right side, they try to block me with Warwick Dunn.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Love Warwick.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, he has certainly made his share of plays against me individually.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: But this time,
3:56
SPEAKER_01: you know,
3:56
SPEAKER_01: I gave him the left foot jab,
3:58
SPEAKER_01: got him leaning one way,
3:59
SPEAKER_01: hopped around the other way,
4:01
SPEAKER_01: and Mike was just sitting there priming the pocket Didn't sense me coming.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Got the strip sack.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: They did recover.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Atlanta did, but it certainly ended the series for them.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And they were headed to the playoffs.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: This was the last game of the season.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: So I think after that series,
4:19
SPEAKER_01: they pulled him out of the game, which was a factor in us winning that game.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: So we actually made the playoffs that year at Seahawks.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: I think we were 8-8 maybe.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: And we played the Rams in the wildcard round, and maybe they were 7-9.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: It was one of those weird, you know, division, not-so-good records, playoff wildcard anomalies.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: But, yeah, I remember that play quite specifically.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: And you can see his helmets kind of coming off there.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: One of my hands,
4:49
SPEAKER_01: when swiping for the football,
4:51
SPEAKER_01: kind of punched him in the helmet a little bit, popped his chin strap off.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: I take a little pride in all that.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm sure the OGs here at Go Long remember our conversation a few years back.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: I was just looking back at it, Chad.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: It got really existential.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: We were talking about the future of football and how the suits at Park Avenue need
5:13
SPEAKER_00: to convince little Johnny, little Johnny's mom, I should say, that it's safe.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: We got pretty deep.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if we'll get that deep, this conversation, but Chad is just awesome.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure folks have heard you.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: I guess that's the story today.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: We'll start there.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: When you've worked as hard as Tom Brady has worked to craft an image of greatness
6:02
SPEAKER_01: and seriousness and focus,
6:05
SPEAKER_01: and when you've made the amount of money that Tom Brady has made over the years,
6:10
SPEAKER_01: he's doing things that people who are desperate for money do.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: He's doing things that people are desperate for attention.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: When you can do anything you want,
6:23
SPEAKER_01: when you can buy anything you want,
6:25
SPEAKER_01: when you're at a stage in your life where you can date anybody you want,
6:29
SPEAKER_01: why go down the Logan Paul wrestling route?
6:33
SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't make sense to me.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: He's a grown-ass man.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: He can do whatever the hell he wants.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: But for me,
6:39
SPEAKER_01: if I had all those things that I just listed off for Tom Brady,
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Doing fake wrestling crap would be the last thing on my, literally on my mind.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: So you've been out of football for 15, 20 years.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, almost two decades, I want to say, right?
6:57
SPEAKER_01: This is year 1907.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: That was my last season.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: With New England, right?
7:03
SPEAKER_00: The near perfect season there.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: So you've obviously adjusted very well to life when the cheering stops.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's just not easy for anybody.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: We've talked to a bunch of them.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Everybody struggles.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it gets really scary.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's depression.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: There's anxiety.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: You have to find a purpose, a reason to wake up in the morning.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: I come back to that for Tom Brady, I guess.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: Maybe he needs the adulation.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: He needs people thinking about him, caring about him.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: It's cringe.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: It's brutal.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: He didn't anticipate that we all have brains and would see right through the nonsense, I guess.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: He's calling games at Fox.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: He's basically running the Las Vegas Raiders, and he's doing all this other stuff.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: In his own way,
7:52
SPEAKER_00: is he kind of navigating relevance,
7:56
SPEAKER_00: you know, post-NFL, which is strange when he's the greatest ever.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: When my former teammate Kevin Green had his forays into wrestling, okay, that's Kevin Green.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: That's fit within his persona.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: That fit within the brand that he built.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: Tom Brady with the $25 million watch collection,
8:19
SPEAKER_01: who was on the sidelines or in the booth for Fox,
8:23
SPEAKER_01: pictured on the field in custom suits,
8:26
SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't stack up with what he's trying to convey in other places in life.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Is he allowed to have fun?
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Again, I can only look at life through my lens.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: For my former teammate,
8:42
SPEAKER_01: the guy that I knew in the locker room who never let on that the crowd was a part
8:48
SPEAKER_01: of his process,
8:50
SPEAKER_01: His process was about greatness,
8:52
SPEAKER_01: was about success,
8:53
SPEAKER_01: was about self-motivation,
8:54
SPEAKER_01: about being the most driven guy in the locker room and on the field.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: All those kinds of things to dip into professional wrestling of all places,
9:05
SPEAKER_01: which is all fake for the crowd.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: It's just so counter to what I thought he was about and what he portrayed himself to be.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Is it just a thing to bring him some fun in the offseason?
9:19
SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Is this some kind of long-term thing?
9:21
SPEAKER_01: I certainly hope not.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And I got to imagine the folks at the Raiders and the folks at Fox,
9:27
SPEAKER_01: while football and networks love attention,
9:30
SPEAKER_01: this is not the kind of attention they want for their highest paid
9:33
SPEAKER_01: or their biggest name in their organization.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so well put, Chad.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Probably the last source of clown behavior we would have expected.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: It's always been the other extreme.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: I guess he got a little better last season, but it's very bland and blah.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, he's kind of crafted this image for himself.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: Runs very counter to this all.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, we connected a few days ago.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Really thank you, Chad, for checking out our stuff at Golong.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: You read our column on the wide receiver position.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: And you made a great point when we were texting back and forth
10:14
SPEAKER_00: on how different it was, you know, in your Pittsburgh Steeler days.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: What was that era of football really like?
10:22
SPEAKER_00: That coaching, just kind of create the lay of the land for us, what you were getting at.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, your article was alluding to some of these receivers nowadays
10:32
SPEAKER_01: and their unwillingness to get involved in the run game.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: And for the Pittsburgh Steelers that time,
10:39
SPEAKER_01: coached by Bill Cowher, obviously we were led by that Blitzburg defense.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Receivers on that team recognized that they were Secondary parts of the offense.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: And so if they wanted to have the ability to get on the field,
10:52
SPEAKER_01: much less catch the football, they had to be involved in the run game.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I think about a guy like Yancy Thigpen,
10:59
SPEAKER_01: who ended up having a Pro Bowl season,
11:02
SPEAKER_01: ended up earning a big money contract, I think from Tennessee at the time.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: And he earned his way onto the field from Winston-Salem State.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: Didn't come from a big school because of what he did on special teams.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: And then in what he did in the run game.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: So that model for receivers that Bill Cowher kind of leaned on Yancey Thigpen
11:23
SPEAKER_01: to create, that's how you get Hines Ward.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: That's how you get some of these other receivers that have epitomized
11:31
SPEAKER_01: the Steeler way in toughness.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Even for my former teammate Charles Johnson,
11:36
SPEAKER_01: rest in peace,
11:37
SPEAKER_01: from the University of Colorado,
11:40
SPEAKER_01: When he came to the Pittsburgh Steelers,
11:41
SPEAKER_01: CJ was not a physical guy, but he knew what the demands were.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: If I want to play on this football team,
11:48
SPEAKER_01: even though I'm a first round pick, I got a block in the run game.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: And even though he didn't have a gunner role on special teams like Yancey did,
11:56
SPEAKER_01: CJ wasn't quite that type of physical athlete.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: He returned kickoffs and he returned punts and he had to show his courage in that way.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: So the process of Becoming a Steeler receiver was so well-defined that
12:10
SPEAKER_01: the expectations were incredibly high in that room.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: That was the reason why we were usually top five running the football every year.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Not just because we had a good offensive line and Hall of Famer like Damani Dawson,
12:21
SPEAKER_01: but because the receivers were expected to be a part of that.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: And so that level of toughness for the most diva of all NFL positions
12:29
SPEAKER_01: That trickles down to the rest of the football team.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: And when you start allowing people to play football who are unwilling
12:36
SPEAKER_01: to play football as it's drawn up and designed,
12:41
SPEAKER_01: that has an effect on the rest of your team.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: And it's real, man.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: I was talking to a receivers coach in the NFL who's been around some of the best of
12:52
SPEAKER_00: the best.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, look, I get George Pickens.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: It's electrifying.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: He'll make some of the craziest plays you've ever seen.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: But it's not that he doesn't block.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a complete lack of effort.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: He will just walk.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: He won't even attempt to block at times.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: And he'll make the plays, I should say, not make those plays.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And they'll lose you football games.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: NFL Network isn't going to have a loop of those plays.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's not going to grab the attention of millions of people on social media,
13:25
SPEAKER_00: but it matters.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: But where I struggle with it though, Chad, is it really is a matrix.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: And I liken the wide receiver position to that viral video,
13:36
SPEAKER_00: the crazy hot matrix from whatever it was, 2014.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: It's outlandish.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: It's over the top, what have you.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: But there is something to, okay, super talented wide receiver.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: You're going to have baggage.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Usually you need that talent.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: You've got to take a chance to win, but also culture matters.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to go too far to the point where you take a chance
14:00
SPEAKER_00: and it's just dropping a stick of dynamite into your building
14:05
SPEAKER_00: because it can't all blow up to the point where you got to completely start over.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: These are the personalities that can ruin a locker room, ruin a culture.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Yet you do have to take a chance.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: If you're If you're not trying, you're not going to win.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
14:20
SPEAKER_00: that's what made that Pittsburgh run so special is it was its own ecosystem in
14:25
SPEAKER_00: so many ways.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: If you were a GM, Chad, how would you navigate that wide receiver matrix?
14:32
SPEAKER_01: I find as a football person,
14:35
SPEAKER_01: the further you are removed from the ball itself,
14:39
SPEAKER_01: always spotted somewhere between the hashes.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: As you go out, center guard, tackle, tight end to receiver defensively.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Interior defensive line, edge guys, linebackers, safeties, and then corners.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Corners and wide receivers.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: In my opinion, know the least about real football.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: View the game through the lens of me because they're out there solo outside the numbers.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: They're not looking at it from an inside linebacker perspective.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Hey, this is not my play to make.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: I got to take this on with my right shoulder so then LaVon Kirkland can come
15:12
SPEAKER_01: and make the tackle.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: So I got to knock the fullback the right way so he can make the play.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Receivers don't operate in that way.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Cornerbacks typically don't operate in that way.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: So the ability for these guys to really understand what the game is about,
15:28
SPEAKER_01: if they've only played outside the numbers their entire lives,
15:31
SPEAKER_01: as a GM,
15:33
SPEAKER_01: I would have to take that, number one, into consideration that I need cornerbacks.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: I need wide receivers.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: I want players who want the ball and are confident and believe in themselves.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: At the same time, how do I get these guys to buy into what we're doing inside the hashes?
15:49
SPEAKER_01: How do I get them to understand what real football is about?
15:54
SPEAKER_01: There have been guys, the Heinz Wards of the world.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Larry Fitzgerald,
15:59
SPEAKER_01: late in his career,
16:00
SPEAKER_01: when he moved into the slot and then was almost playing a glorified tight end spot
16:05
SPEAKER_01: and he was inserting himself into the run game in like year 15 and 16 in the league.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: So there's guys who can do it and there's guys who have shown that it can be done
16:15
SPEAKER_01: and they can also be all-time great wide receivers as well.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: So I suppose from a GM perspective,
16:20
SPEAKER_01: to answer your question, that's the kind of guy I'd be looking for.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: And of course, What's the listener going to say?
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, Hines Wards and Larry Fitzgerald don't just grow on trees.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: No, they don't.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: But how do you build a room where that attitude and that way of playing football is expected?
16:36
SPEAKER_01: So there'd be the talent acquisition part, but there would also be who's my wide receiver coach?
16:42
SPEAKER_01: How do I make sure this guy?
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Hammers the point home.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: You cannot get on the field if you don't get your nose bloody.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: You cannot get on the field and catch the ball if you don't block.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: No rock.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, no block, no rock, as your text said the other day.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is such a great point.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: I never thought of it like that.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: As a wide receiver and a cornerback, literally, your eyes are in tunnel vision.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: You are only thinking about your job,
17:11
SPEAKER_00: yourself,
17:12
SPEAKER_00: the man in front of you,
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Throughout the game,
17:14
SPEAKER_00: let alone the fact that if you're a receiver,
17:16
SPEAKER_00: you can only take over a game if the ball is thrown your way, if the line blocks.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: So much has to go into it, and it might only happen four or five times in a particular game.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: So you played eight years in Seattle.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: You went to a Pro Bowl there, won a ton of games.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: You're very familiar with the defending champs.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: They might have one of those unicorns, right?
17:38
SPEAKER_00: And Jackson Smith and Jigba, you're okay paying somebody like that.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't strike me as...
17:42
SPEAKER_00: This volatile personality who's going to cause drama?
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Maybe he does.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think he does.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, again,
17:56
SPEAKER_01: I think people,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: particularly when they're younger,
18:01
SPEAKER_01: particularly when maybe they're early in those record-setting contracts that he got,
18:07
SPEAKER_01: are more willing to be a part of the culture.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: John Snyder has built a great culture up there in Seattle.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: I think maybe it was Pete Carroll who kind of introduced some of the culture
18:18
SPEAKER_01: that still exists,
18:19
SPEAKER_01: but John has taken that and run with that, and so is the head coach.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
18:23
SPEAKER_01: He's a defensive-minded head coach.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Tend to demand physicality at all positions.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: And they don't suffer fools who are unwilling to play the game from a physical standpoint well.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: So I know Jackson Smith and Jigba is a generational talent.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: But the expectations from a culture perspective,
18:45
SPEAKER_01: from a head coach perspective,
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Who demands so much of his defense and so much physicality and so much raw football.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: You can't just let this guy do what he wants to do.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: I think that's another reason why maybe Tyler Lockett is no longer there.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Tyler Lockett,
19:00
SPEAKER_01: late in his career in Seattle,
19:01
SPEAKER_01: caught the ball and then looked to go down voluntarily before anyone touched him.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: That's, again, I understand you got to live to compete and play another play.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, Toughness is a part of this game.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: And if you continually take the easy or soft way out,
19:21
SPEAKER_01: there's a ripple effect in the wide receiver room across the offense,
19:25
SPEAKER_01: across the entire football team.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: DK Metcalf.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got this ultra talented weapon in your building and you trade him away.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: You trade him away for many reasons, but there's some baggage there, I'd imagine.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not to the Pickens extreme,
19:43
SPEAKER_00: but it's addition by subtraction in some ways that you don't necessarily see
19:47
SPEAKER_00: on Sunday.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, receivers shouldn't get penalties.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: And I have to imagine over the last five years,
19:53
SPEAKER_01: he's probably the most penalized wide receiver in the game.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: So in a game where we've got to throw you the ball for you to be a positive,
20:03
SPEAKER_01: but if we don't throw you the ball,
20:05
SPEAKER_01: you're going to get frustrated and then be a negative?
20:08
SPEAKER_01: We can't.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: You're killing...
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Offenses are going to get somewhere between 8 and 12 series a game.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: You have a penalty on third down.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, that series is done.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: You've blown the whole series.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: You've taken a whole possession away from us.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: So when you start to think about the game through those kinds of lenses, I know you're 6'4".
20:28
SPEAKER_01: I know you're 230.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: You had the great play where you chased the dude down from 70 yards or 80 yards away.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: That was incredible.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: But you can't kill a series, a game for us.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: We can't have you doing that, man.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: The wins and losses and margins are so slim, you can't just rob us of an entire series.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: So that plus other reasons is why DK Metcalf is playing someplace else.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever have the urge to go fight a fan for being mean to you during a game too, Chad?
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Never.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Not one time.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: And I've played in the old black hole in Oakland.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Played around some fans that,
21:09
SPEAKER_01: let's just say we couldn't repeat what they say on a family-friendly show.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: But I've always embraced the us against the world mentality.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: When you're an away team, hey,
21:22
SPEAKER_01: me and my 53 brothers or 46 who are active on game day,
21:27
SPEAKER_01: however you want to number that,
21:28
SPEAKER_01: plus the coaching staff, whatever, this crew of 100.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Our job is to come in there and piss every fan off and somehow make them go home mad.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: And at some point in the game, rob the momentum and silence 65,000 people.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, if you're talking trash, great.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: That's just going to make the silence even better when me and my team achieve that.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Man, so many master strokes by John Schneider, who you just referenced.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: What impressed you most?
21:59
SPEAKER_00: About the Seattle Seahawks run to a Super Bowl and just complete domination of that Super Bowl.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Well,
22:06
SPEAKER_01: I actually sent John Snyder a letter recently and I equated what he does to some of
22:16
SPEAKER_01: the animal breeding that I have done.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
22:21
SPEAKER_01: as an animal breeder,
22:22
SPEAKER_01: you've got to call animals that maybe shouldn't be a part of the program.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Either they don't fit the standard.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're too old.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're not productive enough.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Huh.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: That's what a GM does.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Gets rid of players who don't fit the future.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: Talent acquisition.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I can't just bring random animals into my breeding group.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: What am I trying to achieve?
22:43
SPEAKER_01: What's the public interested in?
22:46
SPEAKER_01: What's my goals as a breeder?
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, I can't just bring a player in because he's splashy.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: He's got to fit our program.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: If I'm going to bring a running back into this situation,
22:55
SPEAKER_01: well, my coach wants a certain style running back.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: He's got to be the right style.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: He's got to have all the attributes, the speed, the size, all the physical stuff.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: But is he tough?
23:05
SPEAKER_01: What's his character like?
23:06
SPEAKER_01: How quickly does he mentally recover from bad things?
23:09
SPEAKER_01: So all these ways of evaluating personnel and building a program.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: I had some fun with this and sent that to John Snyder.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: I've yet to get a reply.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure he's quite busy trying to repeat as a Super Bowl champion.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: But as I dove into his performance over the last couple of years, It made me think of that.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: And so often from an animal perspective,
23:31
SPEAKER_01: because breeding doesn't happen instantly,
23:34
SPEAKER_01: there's that two to five year window where you're raising up something with hopes
23:40
SPEAKER_01: that it is going to become what you hope it to become.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: And so to make the move away from Russell Wilson, to fleece the Denver Broncos.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: OK, well, now I've got an opportunity.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: What am I going to do with an opportunity to turn that opportunity
23:54
SPEAKER_01: into successful draft picks who Have played a major role in their success recently
23:59
SPEAKER_01: and particularly last year.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm doing from the animal breeding perspective.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I hope this works out three or five years from now.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: I got to make this move with fingers crossed that there's no 100% guarantee
24:10
SPEAKER_01: for success, but I think this is the right move for us to make.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: And so when you start doing all that and you start thinking about the constraints as
24:19
SPEAKER_01: an animal breeder, I've only got so many cages.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: I've only got so much money to feed the mouths.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: There's a salary cap in football.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: There's only so much room on the roster.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: You're working with similar type of principles.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: And so what he's been able to do to move on from the star of the program,
24:36
SPEAKER_01: the straw that stirred the entire drink,
24:40
SPEAKER_01: go in a different direction,
24:41
SPEAKER_01: get through with Geno Smith,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: make the move for Sam Darnold, which most folks said would not move the needle much.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: He deserves a massive tip of the cap and the long term It
25:03
SPEAKER_00: really is.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: In the moment, it's tough, right?
25:08
SPEAKER_00: As a GM, I think so many GMs and so many head coaches, they're in survival mode.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: How do I get power and keep power, stay employed?
25:17
SPEAKER_00: You've got a Pro Bowl quarterback, a Super Bowl winning quarterback.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: You saw it simultaneously in Green Bay where Aaron Rodgers gets
25:28
SPEAKER_00: the contract he desires and they kept him a year too long.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Could have gotten three held.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: They probably could have gotten four first round draft picks
25:34
SPEAKER_00: if Russ Wilson's getting three with where they both are at in their career.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: And eventually Green Bay moved on and it became Jordan Love's team.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: And we give Brian Gutekinds all the credit in the world,
25:44
SPEAKER_00: both from that Packer scouting tree, by the way.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: But you're right, that should not get lost in the sands of time.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: That decision,
25:51
SPEAKER_00: that was a bold move at the time to move on from the face of the franchise
25:56
SPEAKER_00: when I think it's a very small percentage of GMs that have the balls to do it right
26:00
SPEAKER_00: then like John Schneider did.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: To see the diminishing returns right as they begin to happen and then be able
26:09
SPEAKER_01: to be comfortable making that move.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's an all-time GM move.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm always impressed with these folks who can see that coming, who can understand it.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: And so, again,
26:21
SPEAKER_01: going back to the animal thing,
26:24
SPEAKER_01: to be able to walk around a reptile warehouse and look at all my female ball pythons
26:29
SPEAKER_01: and go, you know what?
26:30
SPEAKER_01: These 10 females have got to go.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
26:33
SPEAKER_01: have an employee go,
26:34
SPEAKER_01: oh man, but this one, this one makes the sweet, you know, bumblebee babies.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: And this one makes the sweet, this baby.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Nope, nope.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: We've got to make this move because I got to think about two years,
26:45
SPEAKER_01: three years from now and where we'll be then.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: I can't just let the results of today dictate how I plan for the future.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Where did the love of snakes come from?
26:56
SPEAKER_01: I never asked you that.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, I grew up in Southern California in a town called Altadena.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: A lot of folks probably familiar with it because he fires a couple years back.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: But it's kind of a hillside-y kind of town.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: And behind my house was this massive hillside.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: And so catching California king snakes and garter snakes was just a part
27:20
SPEAKER_01: of my childhood, which is what me and all my friends did.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Of course, my mom, like I think every mom, says no snakes in the house.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't until I got to college that I got my first snake.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: And then in efforts to learn more about this snake, I went to a local pet store.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: And a good friend of mine to this day,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: Cameron Tepedlin of Bushmaster Reptiles,
27:43
SPEAKER_01: I met him before he was Bushmaster Reptiles.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: And he invited me to his home.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: He was breeding snakes in his home there in Boulder, Colorado.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: And he had just begun to travel the world looking for reptiles.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And as the decades unfolded,
28:03
SPEAKER_01: he became one of the premier Importers of reptiles from around
28:08
SPEAKER_01: the world discovered several different species.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: I was on a trip with him to Indonesia where he discovered a new species of python,
28:16
SPEAKER_01: the Halamahara scrub python on the Halamahara Island in Indonesia.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: So it was the Southern California hillsides that introduced me and maybe got me over
28:26
SPEAKER_01: that fear that a lot of folks have about snakes.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: But it was really meeting Cameron Tepedlin as a freshman at the University
28:32
SPEAKER_01: of Colorado that showed me All the ways where this love of reptiles,
28:37
SPEAKER_01: all the places it could take me.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I credit him greatly for this passion that I still have to this day.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: How many times you've been bitten by a snake?
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: So baby snakes,
28:50
SPEAKER_01: as you would kind of think,
28:52
SPEAKER_01: are afraid of getting eaten because they're babies and everything can eat them.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: All the birds and other bigger snakes and lizards and everything else.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: So baby snakes bite all the time.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: They're typically not very docile until they're used to being handled.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: So when you hatch thousands of baby snakes every year and someone needs a male or
29:11
SPEAKER_01: a female, well, you got to sex that baby snake.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: So in the process of picking it up and trying to sex it, you're going to get bit.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Now, the bites from baby snakes are quite harmless.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: So it's no big deal.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: But there were days where I would literally be bitten hundreds of times
29:27
SPEAKER_01: by baby snakes as I was Sexing this year's hatch of 1,500 babies.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm doing 300 or 400 a day.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you get bit hundreds of times.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: The biggest snake I've ever been bitten by was a 13-foot Burmese python.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: It was a feeding bite.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: I smelled like rats.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: It was totally, totally my fault.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: But she bit, held on.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: Bit so hard she damaged some nerves in my pinky.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: And I still got some numbness on the inside of this pinky to this day.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: And that happens and you say, give me some more.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: I want to stay in this world full of snakes.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: I would run immediately the other direction and want nothing to do with a python
30:15
SPEAKER_00: or any reptile ever.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: This was when I was a broke college student.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: And actually, like for every...
30:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, industry, there's tools.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: And so there's tools to get those like the hemostat that a doctor is going to open
30:32
SPEAKER_01: a wound with on you.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: They make those for reptiles that are like 18 inches or two feet long.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: So you can hold a rat.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: If you're holding something bigger,
30:41
SPEAKER_01: there's like the thing people used to pick up trash off the ground at the airport
30:45
SPEAKER_01: that the custodial crew has.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, they make really strong ones of those to be able to hold a really large rat or
30:53
SPEAKER_01: a rabbit for a giant python.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: So I was in college, broke student, didn't have tools.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: I had my hand, bit my hand instead.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Once I got some money in my pocket, I purchased all the right tools.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
31:06
SPEAKER_01: It never happened again.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Man, you know, because growing up in the country, I loved snakes.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: Red bellies, garter snakes, loved catching them with my grandfather.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: A snake shed, go there.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: That was such a treat as a kid.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: At some point,
31:22
SPEAKER_00: I went from that to now my daughter saw a snake in the yard and is screaming
31:27
SPEAKER_00: and crying and I get the shovel and...
31:31
SPEAKER_01: The snake is no more, Chad.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm very sorry.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: You're probably going to end the podcast right now.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: But that snake is the circle of life.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure a hawk or some bird or a deer.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what else eats deer out here, eats snakes out here.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: The snake is gone.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: You've got to share the story that you did for Blood and Guts.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, you had some epic battles with Shannon Sharp on the field.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: I'll just leave it there, take it away.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: He did his research in terms of your love for reptiles and used it on the field.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: So when I first got in the NFL,
32:06
SPEAKER_01: I heard about John Randall scouting the press guide and all those pamphlets
32:12
SPEAKER_01: that teams used to put out back in the day before everything was digital,
32:15
SPEAKER_01: trying to learn about his opponents on the offensive line so he could say
32:20
SPEAKER_01: the right thing at the right time to throw them off.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: So it was a John Randall thing.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: And to your point,
32:27
SPEAKER_01: my Seahawks at the time and the Broncos, the Seahawks used to be in the AFC West.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if today's fans actually remember that.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: So we played the Broncos twice a year.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I battled with Shannon Sharp, tying in outside linebacker, twice a year.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: And so Shannon was, and still is with his podcast, an epic, all-time trash talker.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Talker in general, of course, but trash talk was just off the chain.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: So we were playing in Seattle.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: And I want to say maybe it was like a Sunday night game.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: So it was a pretty big game.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: So emotions were higher than they normally were for a division game.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: And in my opinion, I was having a good game and I was giving it to Shannon.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: And Shannon,
33:14
SPEAKER_01: going back to our conversation about receivers versus blockers,
33:19
SPEAKER_01: as a tight end, Shannon Sharp was no Gronk.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: He was no road grading tight end.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: He wanted to go out there and block cornerbacks and safeties.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: Really didn't want to deal with outside linebackers on a regular basis.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: And most of the time, I knew if Shannon was in front of me, the run was going the other way.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: They weren't going to run behind him.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: They were going to run behind big Dwayne Carswell,
33:38
SPEAKER_01: who was like 290 pounds, who was an extra offensive tackle.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: At any rate, I'm giving it to Shannon, multiple plays, probably a couple of series in a row.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: So in his frustration,
33:48
SPEAKER_01: he says,
33:49
SPEAKER_01: when I get back to Denver,
33:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm going from the airport and I'm going to your snake shop and I'm burning it down.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: And for whatever reason, of all the trash talk and all the years, that one got me.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: And I had nothing to say, but for real, man, like that's really what you're going to do.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: You're going to hurt this thing that's most important to me.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: So.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: It took me like a few seconds to recover and get back to reality
34:18
SPEAKER_01: because I had never thought about trash talk in that way.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: And no one had ever gotten directly to the heart of me in that way that he did with
34:27
SPEAKER_01: that one comment.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm going from the airport to burn your snake shop down.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: He'd get personal.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: He went there with everybody.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've heard stuff about people's sisters and mothers and, you know,
34:46
SPEAKER_01: That's happened over the years.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Derek Thomas.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes, all that stuff.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you're going to come and burn my snake shop down.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Man, I was not prepared to hear about reptile crimes during a football game.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Diabolical.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Go after your love of snakes in the middle of a football game.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Tip of the cap, Shannon.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Tip of the cap.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: And he got in your head.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he did.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: He effectively got in your head at that moment.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: He totally got in my head.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think for the next couple of plays,
35:13
SPEAKER_01: maybe he wasn't in front of me, but he was still on the field.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Like after the play, I was like looking for him as he was walking back to the huddle.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, are you serious, man?
35:22
SPEAKER_01: What's wrong with you?
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Why would you say that?
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Did you guys ever talk about it like years later?
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: It's, uh,
35:32
SPEAKER_01: I have this very strange existence here in Denver where I spend most of time
35:38
SPEAKER_01: and now split time between Denver and in the Phoenix area,
35:41
SPEAKER_01: but I'm kind of an honorary Bronco,
35:43
SPEAKER_01: which is a really weird thing because I played at CU.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of fans in town are familiar with me as a football player.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: So of course, the tie to the Broncos just kind of accidentally happens.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: So I've done a lot of reporting and Bronco shows for local news.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: So I'm in that stadium all the time.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: And I see Shannon several times a year.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: And at some point, he or I or somebody else who's around us will bring up that story.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: So yes, we talk about it quite frequently.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think a lot of people, they hear your name or they hear your voice.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: They see you.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: They think of the Pittsburgh Steelers and that Blitzburg defense.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: What in the hell are they doing right now?
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of GMing and forecasting and looking into the future,
36:30
SPEAKER_00: what do they see in Aaron Rodgers and trying to go for it in the present
36:36
SPEAKER_00: with this quarterback?
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers, you know, they've got a history.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Some good and some not so good towards the end there.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: So that's a weird marriage.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, Omar Khan has kind of taken the reins of that organization.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: When I was a Steeler in year 14,
36:57
SPEAKER_01: I played my first four years there,
36:59
SPEAKER_01: left for basically 10 years, came back towards the end of my career.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Omar was the assistant GM and the salary cap guy.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Omar Baal, you know, interaction, great guy.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: But I can understand where your comment comes from.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: And I can understand where Steeler, Faithful are wondering who is this team?
37:21
SPEAKER_01: What is the way of this team for an organization that always seemed to be ahead of the curve?
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: Rod Woodson.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: I know there's signs in the stadium that say Rod is God.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: You're a football player being equated with God,
37:37
SPEAKER_01: but we're going to let you go because you got into 31 years old
37:41
SPEAKER_01: and we think you're done.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: And this is the model that we're going to live by.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: And we're always going to be too early rather than too late with replacing personnel.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Who is this team now?
37:51
SPEAKER_01: You're going to get by another year with Aaron Rodgers and everyone knows what's
37:56
SPEAKER_01: the prospects of you getting A great quarterback in the draft if you're not drafting
38:01
SPEAKER_01: the top three or four.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: And with Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy,
38:05
SPEAKER_01: you would expect some at least good offensive production, if not above good.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: So suddenly they're a, what,
38:14
SPEAKER_01: 10 and seven,
38:15
SPEAKER_01: make the playoff,
38:16
SPEAKER_01: wildcard team perhaps,
38:19
SPEAKER_01: you know,
38:20
SPEAKER_01: At best,
38:21
SPEAKER_01: maybe, but they're not going to be a team that's going to get a top three pick.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: So how's this quarterback thing ever going to be solved?
38:29
SPEAKER_01: How are you going to get around this post Ben Roethlisberger multiple quarterback?
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Who's the guy era that they're in right now?
38:38
SPEAKER_01: And then defensively seem to have lost their way as well.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: TJ Watt on the other side of 30.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Production seems to be declining with him.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Hayward seems to still be playing well.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, who is this football team?
38:53
SPEAKER_01: You got some older guys.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: You got some young guys.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: What's the personality?
38:58
SPEAKER_01: What's the culture?
39:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're in a big transition from previous GM to Omar over the last couple of years.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Mike Tomlin out of Mike McCarthy.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Last year of Aaron Rodgers,
39:12
SPEAKER_01: is he going to get rocking chairs like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did
39:15
SPEAKER_01: on this Fair World Tour?
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Who's the quarterback of the future?
39:19
SPEAKER_01: There's just so many questions about this whole thing there.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: Man, it's so discombobulated.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, even before you get to the Aaron Rodgers conversation,
39:28
SPEAKER_00: we touched on DK Metcalf, and there's a reason that Seattle moved on from him.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: I was just talking to some sources out in Miami about Jalen Ramsey.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: You want to talk about bad for a culture, skipping meetings, nonstop, racking up the fines.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
39:45
SPEAKER_00: Maybe things have changed in Pittsburgh.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: I know they're saying all the right things,
39:48
SPEAKER_00: but what's his incentive at this point of his career?
39:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't get it.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of the opposite of John Schneider making those hard decisions.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: This does strike me as surviving,
39:58
SPEAKER_00: fighting for your survival, to win enough games to keep your job.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Because, God, last season seemed to be as good as it gets.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: You had the Joe Burrow injury, the Lamar Jackson injury.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: The right bounces went your way.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to imagine those bounces going your way again if you're Pittsburgh.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: It's just, you're not mad, you're disappointed.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: I think fans understand it's okay to take a year,
40:22
SPEAKER_00: to take one step back, to take three steps forward.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: I know that's difficult for a franchise that wants to be in
40:29
SPEAKER_01: the conversation every year and is one of the winningest franchises,
40:32
SPEAKER_01: not just in professional football, but in all sports.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: But yes, if you've got to take a step back to Be the springboard towards the future.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: And that's what you've got to do.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: And then how can a Steeler defense be at the bottoms of the league multiple years
40:48
SPEAKER_01: against the run?
40:49
SPEAKER_01: How is that possible?
40:51
SPEAKER_01: How is that possible?
40:53
SPEAKER_00: That Buffalo game, they ran the same play all game.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
40:59
SPEAKER_01: I come from a time there where Greg Lloyd might have fought everybody on
41:03
SPEAKER_01: the sidelines.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: If we put together some of the performances that they have recently defensively.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Heck, coaches.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Marvin Lewis would have wanted to come out of the press box and fight me
41:15
SPEAKER_01: and LeVon Kirkland personally if we had played the way some
41:17
SPEAKER_01: of these inside linebackers are playing.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: So where is that pride?
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Where is that,
41:23
SPEAKER_01: you know what,
41:23
SPEAKER_01: no matter what happens,
41:25
SPEAKER_01: we got certain things we're going to be able to hang our hat on.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: We are going to be the most physical team on the field.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just certain just non-negotiables.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: It all seems to be up for debate now.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Players with tricky history,
41:40
SPEAKER_01: players who have more offseason news than on the field news about them.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: So you're getting away from this culture of accountability.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: You're getting away from this culture of just demanded success.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: And again, we talked about some of this stuff with the wide receivers.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: Once you start allowing those kind of personalities within the building,
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately,
42:05
SPEAKER_01: it's not just going to stay with that person or just within that position room.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: The ripple effect goes all the way across the pond and then it comes back
42:14
SPEAKER_01: and ripples multiple times.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: And so your locker room,
42:18
SPEAKER_01: your culture,
42:20
SPEAKER_01: your toughness,
42:22
SPEAKER_01: your physicality,
42:23
SPEAKER_01: all those things start to diminish when you bring the people in
42:27
SPEAKER_01: who don't uphold those same ethos that you have.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: Well said, Chad.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know where this is going to go,
42:36
SPEAKER_00: but I think that Joe Burrow and the Bengals,
42:39
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we say it every year, but they might be on a mission
42:43
SPEAKER_01: in that division.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Let's end it here.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Let's get your July 20th Super Bowl prediction.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: If I can pry it out of you, let's get a take from Chad Brown.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: My goodness.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: There's just so many question marks around the league.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: Can Buffalo...
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Put a better supporting cast around Josh Allen,
43:05
SPEAKER_01: you know, because that's what it's going to take.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: If it's a Josh Allen show,
43:08
SPEAKER_01: at some point, the Josh Allen we saw against the Broncos is going to show up.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And if it shows up in the wrong moment without a supporting cast
43:16
SPEAKER_01: to help them take it over, well, they're going to lose as they did to the Broncos.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: And then let's talk about the Broncos where I am here in Denver.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Can they win that many close games again?
43:26
SPEAKER_01: Football conventional wisdom says you can't.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: You just can't.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: You can't repeat that kind of whether it's luck or ability to win close games,
43:36
SPEAKER_01: depending on which category you're in.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: It's just not something that is repeatable.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Of course, they got Jalen Waddell on offense another year for Bo Nix.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: Sean Payton has given up play calling to Davis Webb.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: So there are some ways where things could improve, but they also...
43:51
SPEAKER_01: What if Davis Webb just can't get it together and get in rhythm with
43:55
SPEAKER_01: the Sean Payton style offense?
43:57
SPEAKER_01: What if the inability to run the ball is more based on the personnel rather
44:04
SPEAKER_01: than Sean Payton's play calling?
44:05
SPEAKER_01: So there's some question marks there.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Heck, go out to Baltimore.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Does Lamar Jackson somehow able to reclaim the magic?
44:14
SPEAKER_01: Or is last year, this is what we're going to see in the future?
44:20
SPEAKER_01: Sean McVay, the Rams, getting Miles Garrett, perhaps Aaron Donald.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
44:25
SPEAKER_01: Those two dudes on one pass rush line?
44:29
SPEAKER_01: That would be mind-blowing.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: I would love to see it from a pass rush perspective.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: And then what Seattle and the Rams did with the multiple tight end sets.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: Who else is going to be able to jump on that?
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Because that puts defenses in a bind.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: That I haven't seen in the last couple of years from an offensive structure.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: So I don't necessarily have a favorite just yet,
44:58
SPEAKER_01: but the teams that I just mentioned, I think all deserve to be in a conversation.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: But I guess I'll go on a limb because I don't want to be the guy who says I can't pick.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: I'll go with the Rams for Bradford to go out on top to have his last game.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: A Super Bowl win like Jerome Bettis or John Elway for Sean McVay to be able
45:23
SPEAKER_01: to put it all back together again after a bit of a rebuilding process.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: That would be incredible.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: And again,
45:30
SPEAKER_01: I think they present something schematically that is impossible,
45:36
SPEAKER_01: literally impossible to defend.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: And I know defensive coordinators are going to come up with something.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: But as the NFL defenses are structured right now and as players are scouted and
45:47
SPEAKER_01: as personnel is brought in,
45:49
SPEAKER_01: who's this perfect safety linebacker that you can have on
45:53
SPEAKER_01: the field every single down when they put on two or three tight ends
45:58
SPEAKER_01: that can hold up in the run game and also hold up in the pass game?
46:02
SPEAKER_01: Those guys are incredibly rare.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: So they've created not just a structural X's and O's issues for defenses,
46:12
SPEAKER_01: They've created a personnel issue,
46:14
SPEAKER_01: which then trickles down to the scouting department.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: And how is the scouting department going to be able to find these guys in time for this season?
46:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't think they will.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: So the Rams and their schematic slash personal advantage on offense,
46:27
SPEAKER_01: those two guys who I just talked about,
46:29
SPEAKER_01: additions to that defense,
46:30
SPEAKER_01: as the rest of that defense has another year together to get better.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: The Rams, probably my favorite.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: That's a good point too because I think we all assume there'll be a counterpunch.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: All of these defensive coordinators have seven months to figure out, okay,
46:45
SPEAKER_00: the LA Rams,
46:46
SPEAKER_00: they had three tight ends on the field more than anybody in the NFL last season.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's not like it was a goal line offense.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Matthew Stafford won the MVP.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: They're throwing out of it.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: They're running out of it.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: They're doing whatever they want out of these looks.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, X's and O's only take you so far.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: You need the people to run it.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: And you're picking from a college pool where Linebackers are lighter.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: The safeties aren't ready to defend this.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they just come out, do the same thing, and nobody can stop it.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: It'll be interesting.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
47:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm opening up the first 15 of the first four games heavy in that just to begin
47:22
SPEAKER_01: to get what are people trying to do to stop it so I can get as early of a look in
47:27
SPEAKER_01: the beginning part of the season,
47:29
SPEAKER_01: those first four games,
47:30
SPEAKER_01: as possible to know what Layers of the onion do I need to go to?
47:34
SPEAKER_01: How deep in the playbook do I need to go to keep ahead of what they're doing to put
47:38
SPEAKER_01: on the field?
47:38
SPEAKER_01: But again, there's how much structurally you can do.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have a player who can hold up against those tight ends in the run game
47:46
SPEAKER_01: and in the pass game, you're toast.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: If your big nickel is literally putting your smallest linebacker on the field,
47:55
SPEAKER_01: those tight ends are going to run away from that guy.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: If your big nickel is now taking a safety and putting them up in the box,
48:02
SPEAKER_01: well, he's not a linebacker for most people.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: Now, I know Eman Worry with Seattle was kind of a guy who's in that mold
48:10
SPEAKER_01: of what teams are looking for.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: But I think the Seahawks got probably more so lucky with his skill set.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: And while he's great in the box and great on the edge,
48:21
SPEAKER_01: If you were to isolate him over and over in the pass game,
48:24
SPEAKER_01: that's not his strong suit.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: So even the guy everyone points to, oh,
48:29
SPEAKER_01: this is the guy to solve the riddle,
48:31
SPEAKER_01: he's not really a complete solution for the riddle of the multiple tight end attack.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: Sam Darnold had the game of his life.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: They outgunned him that NFC Championship game.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: Even in the Super Bowl, those defenders, they're talking about Stafford and facing Drake May.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: They're like, Bay isn't doing the stuff Stafford did, right?
48:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, he isn't just blindly ripping it.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be fun.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: That Thursday night game late in the season between Seattle and L.A.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, the Seahawks got the very fortunate call there on the goal line.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, the Rams may have won that game.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there's...
49:13
SPEAKER_01: I think the Rams are hungry.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: They've got some tough losses to point to.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: And I can't think of a great team that I was on that didn't use those tough losses
49:23
SPEAKER_01: as motivation all offseason long.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, every time you're running sprints, you know, that's in your mind.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: You're lifting the weights.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: You're fighting through the peak of the summer workouts.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: Hey, we got to find a way to be one point better than those dudes
49:36
SPEAKER_01: who beat us twice late last season.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: Chad, you are the man.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: I can't thank you enough for hanging out once again with us here at Go Long.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: So everybody can find you.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: What's your handle again on X?
49:50
SPEAKER_01: At ChadBrown94.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: ESPN Radio, anywhere else you want to send folks?
49:57
SPEAKER_01: I'll be calling football games on Compass Media again this season.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: And please check me out on social media.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: There are some podcasting efforts that will be coming to fruition here.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: So looking forward to taking whatever's happening up here with my football thoughts
50:14
SPEAKER_01: and giving it to you in a new format.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Hey, thank you so much, man.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it again.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: Sounds good, man.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on.